2003 FIRST LEGO League Forum Archive

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   BRAZIL - [for Brazilian members]
   CANADA - [for Canadian members]
       the red hot Martians
   CHINA - [for Chinese members]
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       Darf der Robo in der Base gedreht werden
       Frankfurt am Main Wettbewerb
       Was nicht interessiert
       wie viele punkte habt ihr schon
   FEEDBACK
       Mat Shipment problems
       tournament feedback
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   FRANCE - [for French members]
       bonne chance!
       jujubeans
   HOLLAND - [for Dutch members]
       Algemene vragen
           onderzoek
       Interessante links
       Mededelingen van de organisatie
       Missie doelen
       Vragen over de regels
   KOREA - [for Korean members]
       Seoul Mokdong LEC
   Make International Contact - [for ALL members]
       HELP FOLDER
       hi everyone i like the tennesse titans and im from ri
   NORTH AMERICA - [for North America members]
       ***ICE CORES RESEARCH INFO AND QUESTIONS***
       2003 Mission Mars tournament Results
       Alabama
       Alaska
           Mission strategies
       Arizona
       Arkansas
           Thank You!
           Welcome!
               AHGDKH
           what happens if a construced building was to be destroyed on accident?
       Atlanta
       California
           habitation modules
           State Tournament at LegoLand
       Changing Pieces
       Colorado
       commnications
       Connecticut
           New Tournament Listing
       dhms questions
       Equipment Questions
           lubrication of lego parts
       Florida
       Georgia
       Hawaii
       HELP!!! Is anyone else doing Ice Cores?
       Homeschool
       Ice Cores Research Help
       Illinois
       Indiana
           6 Little Alien FACTS
           6 LITTLE ALIENS
           don't you hate it when your frinds think that being in the teens dorent mean you can't play with lego's
           Mars Information
           Northern Indiana Teams
               South Bend-Granger area
               Valparaiso
           THE 6 LITTLE ALIEN FILES
       Iowa
           what problems are you having
       Kentucky
       LEGO MINDSTORMS DOOMED?!
       Maine
           New Tournament Listing
       Marketing, Fundraising and PR
           FLL Awareness and general PR
           Fund Raising Ideas
           Fundraising for trip to FLL Invitational
           Marketing And The Robot
           School related questions
       Maryland
       Massachusetts
           New Tournament Available
           reid robtoics
           talking
               talking
       Michigan
           FJH First lego League
           Gearheads of the future
           LEGO websites?
           rover raiders
           State Tournament Wrap-Up
           Total Points
           URGENT - "We need your help" 11-26-2003
           West Michigan LEGO Mania - Regional Tournament
       Minnesota
       Missouri
       Nevada
       New Hampshire
           Nashua Area Folder
               New Tournament
       New Jersey
       New York
       North Carolina
       Ohio
       Oregon
           machinations #1
       Pennsylvania
           Park Foresr
           PENNSYLVANIA
           PENNSYLYANIA
       Programming Questions
           General Programming Questions
           Mindscrips questions
           RoboLab questions
           Robotic Invention System (RIS) Questions
               Program too long
       Research
           Reaserch Question
       Rules and Missions Questions
           All Terrain Vehicle Test
           Clear Solar Panel
           Complete Alliance Habitation Module
           Connect 90&180 Habitation Modules
               Getting Double Points
           Exit the Tetrahedron Base
           Free the Rover
           General questions
               Containers
               General Help
               Mars Events
               Questions regarding satelite robots
           Launch Sample Canister
           Move Boulders to Launch Circle
           Recover Ice Cores
           Research project questions
               Research assignments seem hard
           Strategies
       South Carolina
       Stamford CT
       Strategies
       Team Management Questions
       Team members at the table
       Team Registration Status & other Info
       Technical and Teamwork presentations
       Tennessee
       Texas
       Tournament Director's Forum
       Unofficial FAQ Feedback
       Utah
       Vermont
       Virginia
       Washington
       Washington D.C.
       West Virginia
       Where do i finf the rule book?
       Wisconsin
           Girls how are you deling?
           HELP US!!!
           Release Forms
           What about your robot?
               Habitation Modules
                   Rover off Dune
   SINGAPORE - [for Singapore members]
       MAV launcher
       MindStorm
       To CHIJ Toa Payoh team no.20
       To INSPIRON of victoria
   SKANDINAVIEN - [for Scandinavian members]
   UNITED KINGDOM - [for UK members]
       DHS

Folder: BRAZIL - [for Brazilian members] 02/22/2004 22:57:38 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Brazil in this folder.

Discussion: Welcome to all the Brazilian teams By: sysop 02/22/2004 22:57:38 GMT
Welcome to all the Brazilian teams here in 2003.

  1. Message by: metal martians 2537 10/21/2003 01:32:49 GMT
    Good luck from the Metal Martians from Canada!


    1. Message by: redice2598 10/26/2003 20:58:27 GMT
      HELLO BRAZIL!!!!!!!! WE COME IN PEACE in Cincinnati,Ohio


    2. Message by: Blazed Martians 12/05/2003 00:07:39 GMT
      hola que tal como estas


      1. Message by: Sindarin148 02/22/2004 22:52:04 GMT
        hola amigo coma estas


      2. Message by: Sindarin148 02/22/2004 22:55:10 GMT
        holame name le annemia


      3. Message by: Sindarin148 02/22/2004 22:57:38 GMT
        holame name le annemia


    3. Message by: 01/08/2004 16:59:46 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: Sindarin148 02/22/2004 22:56:25 GMT
      please answer


    5. Message by: GMT


Discussion: Hello from Newark, NJ (USA) By: Int'lSci-Techs2073 11/25/2003 15:26:24 GMT
We are a new team in the USA. We attend Oliver St. School in Newark, NJ. Most of the team members are in the 8th grade & 13 or 14 years old. Some of us are from Brazil, Portugal, Ecuador & Puerto Rico. Our first competition will be in December.
We hope to correspond with international teams as part of our learning activities. Mrs. Rodriguez, our coach is from Spain and our school principal, Mrs. Golden, is "carioca"! Please write back soon!

International Sci-Techs Team #2073

Oi! Tudo legal? Meu time quer corresponder com um time brasileiro. Podemos ser aliados?! Ciao! Mrs. Golden

  1. Message by: Int'lSci-Techs2073 11/20/2003 22:14:22 GMT
    Hello from Newark, NJ (USA)
    Int'lSci-Techs2073 - 09:13pm Nov 20, 2003

    We are a new team in the USA. We attend Oliver St. School in Newark, NJ. Most of the team members are in the 8th grade & 13 or 14 years old. Some of us are from Brazil, Portugal, Ecuador & Puerto Rico. Our first competition will be in December.
    We hope to correspond with international teams as part of our learning activities. Mrs. Rodriguez, our coach is from Spain and our school principal, Mrs. Golden, is "carioca"! Please write back soon!

    International Sci-Techs Team #2073

    Oi! Tudo legal? Meu time quer corresponder com um time brasileiro. Podemos ser aliados?! Ciao! Mrs. Golden


    1. Message by: 11/25/2003 15:26:24 GMT
      Deleted



Folder: CANADA - [for Canadian members] 02/02/2004 23:42:46 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Canada in this folder.


Folder: the red hot Martians 11/21/2003 00:21:30 GMT


Discussion: MARTIANS By: Martians2315 11/21/2003 00:21:30 GMT
the best team We say is the Martions.How about you?

  1. Message by: Martians2315 10/15/2003 18:32:45 GMT
    Have some milk.


    1. Message by: ViperHawk880 10/24/2003 18:27:53 GMT
      testing


      1. Message by: redice2598 10/26/2003 20:55:21 GMT
        What are you testing???????


    2. Message by: redice2598 10/26/2003 20:54:16 GMT
      Builds strong bones. Did you know that?????? PEACE OUT DUDES!!!!!!!!$ We are in Cincinnati Ohio.


    3. Message by: churchill4/5martians 10/29/2003 20:28:32 GMT
      Hi we don't know who the best team is? Can you help us by sharing ideas?


      1. Message by: Tecumseh Space Krustaceans 11/09/2003 18:54:15 GMT
        Tecumseh Space Krustaceans r the best team!!!


    4. Message by: SMMS 11/03/2003 21:43:26 GMT
      Hi from Connecticut USA.

      Team SMMS :) ;)


    5. Message by: challoner233 11/05/2003 22:43:11 GMT
      testing tests


    6. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/13/2003 19:25:50 GMT
      Hi,what are your team members name?Whats your teams name called? How is your robot doing? Write back.


    7. Message by: 11/21/2003 00:21:30 GMT
      Deleted


    8. Message by: GMT


Discussion: The Red Hot Comets (hi) By: redraiders76 12/24/2003 03:42:37 GMT
Hi we are The Red Hot Comets and we are new to this!Please send one to United Kingdom so that I can read it and I hope you win and have a good time!!!

  1. Message by: pcans2966 09/21/2003 21:39:37 GMT
    Hi we are a new team from Fonthill Ontario. We hope you all have a good time in the compitition!


    1. Message by: metal martians 2537 09/24/2003 01:21:57 GMT
      hi! We are the Metal Martians from Ajax Ontario. Hope to see you at the competition!


    2. Message by: GYRO2817 09/24/2003 06:58:19 GMT
      Hi we are a new team from Georgetown, Ontario. We are still awaiting our challenge set from Spectrum so we can prepare the playing field. We've seen pictures of the pieces on US site and can't wait to have them in front of us.


    3. Message by: redraiders76 09/25/2003 17:17:33 GMT
      we are the red raiders I hope you have a great time building!
      from a team member


    4. Message by: pcans2966 10/03/2003 21:33:56 GMT
      We are having a fun time so far. Weve built all the objectives and have a neat idea.


      1. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/14/2003 17:26:00 GMT
        From: Viperhawk880 What is your neat idea?Please REPLY.


    5. Message by: GYRO2817 10/13/2003 19:38:22 GMT
      that sounds great! we are from Georgetown Ontario and are having a great time so far!!!


    6. Message by: metal martians 2537 10/21/2003 01:51:07 GMT
      Hi again, we have built all our playing feild and can do two missions we are also very excited about every thing and we are having a great time! Are you competing in the Ontario competion?
      Lauren and Adam


    7. Message by: Kenollie2876 10/27/2003 22:50:24 GMT
      I was just wondering about if you can bob underneath the MAV Launcher to lift it? HOW?????????????????????????????
      PLEASE TELL ME!


      1. Message by: 10/27/2003 22:52:25 GMT
        Deleted


    8. Message by: Kenollie2876 10/27/2003 22:53:39 GMT
      KATIA FROM KENOLLIE P.S. ROCKS!AND MAXAMILLIAN DOES NOT!


    9. Message by: Kenollie2876 10/27/2003 22:57:53 GMT
      Katia From Kenollie is a dud! Max Rules!


    10. Message by: Kenollie2876 10/27/2003 22:58:36 GMT
      dont listen to anything she says

      Max the Cool One!


    11. Message by: Kenollie2876 10/27/2003 23:01:58 GMT
      HI! I"M FROM KENOLLIE IN CANADA ONTARIO! MAXAMILLIEN IS UNCOOL!


    12. Message by: Kenollie2876 10/27/2003 23:03:01 GMT
      mAX, bE qUIECT 4 1CE!
      -SUPER PINK-GAL KATIA


    13. Message by: Kenollie2876 10/27/2003 23:03:07 GMT
      KATIA IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!::::::::::::::::::::JJJJJJJJJJJJ::::::::::::::""""""""""HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH::::::::::::::}}}}}}}}}}}})))))))))))))++++++++++++++&&&&&&&&&&(((((((((((||||||||||||


    14. Message by: churchill4/5martians 10/29/2003 20:33:09 GMT
      Hi we are a team from Toronto. WE SPENT ALL OF OCTOBER building our challenge set.It arrived in early October. We started the first challenge today


    15. Message by: legofreaks3296 10/30/2003 20:02:57 GMT
      We're from Calgary and we already have our set


    16. Message by: SMMS 11/03/2003 21:42:07 GMT
      Hi from Connecticut USA.

      Team SMMS :) ;)


    17. Message by: chicksinspace1828 11/05/2003 00:40:11 GMT
      hi!We are the shebots we are all girls from america!


    18. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/13/2003 19:34:34 GMT
      Hello,We are a team from Toronto.How is your robot?


    19. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/13/2003 19:35:45 GMT
      Hello,we really like robots,do you?


    20. Message by: Roadrunners3793 11/13/2003 23:26:03 GMT
      we cant wait to be in front of a team to.we are new too we are in florida


    21. Message by: crusaders2601 12/24/2003 03:42:37 GMT
      Hey ya'll from the Rock Newfoundland we just won the compition and now are going to Atlanta. Good luck to everyone else


    22. Message by: GMT


Discussion: HELLO FROM FONTHILL By: pcans2966 12/01/2003 18:53:27 GMT
Hello, we are new to this competition. We hope you all have a good time and we hope to see you in Toronto!!

  1. Message by: pcans2966 09/21/2003 22:36:02 GMT
    Hiya Every1 is ne1 here? Good luck with our robot! This is FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    1. Message by: TeamGGS1053 09/30/2003 09:06:20 GMT
      Hello from Germany. God luck for the contest. We hope you all have a good time in Toronto.

      GGS Team Lingen (Germany)


    2. Message by: pcans2966 10/05/2003 16:09:20 GMT
      Hi everyone! Im reshearching the ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE TEST.
      If you have any hints tips or trick can you let me know?
      Does anyone have a robot or wheel design that works? every time we try our robot flips over (altough we havent done anything to the wheels yet we're still working on that)

      Thx!


      1. Message by: BlueWizards221 10/13/2003 04:34:19 GMT
        Big wheels in back and med. wheels in front, also make sure that most of the weight is in the front, if its back heavy the robo will filp a ton


      2. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/07/2003 21:52:01 GMT
        Have the small wheels in the front, and the big wheels in the back


    3. Message by: BlueWizards221 10/13/2003 04:35:18 GMT
      comming here from U.S. hope u got good luck to


    4. Message by: GYRO2817 10/14/2003 02:08:54 GMT
      Hi from Georgetown.Can you give me a strategy for picking up the ice cores?


      1. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/07/2003 21:43:49 GMT
        hi. we are viperhawk880, and we can help. what you need to do is make a forklift. We aren't going to Toronto , we are in Windsor at the St.Clair Collage.


        1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/21/2003 19:20:15 GMT
          We are almost done so do you need help?


    5. Message by: metal martians 2537 10/21/2003 01:54:06 GMT
      We are the Metal Martians and we are going to Toronto too and we have not started the ice cores. Sorry!
      Lauren and Adam


    6. Message by: churchill4/5martians 10/29/2003 20:52:42 GMT
      HI everyone we researched about the Real Mav launcher! Hi from Toronto!


    7. Message by: pcans2966 12/01/2003 18:53:27 GMT
      Is there another copatition in Florda? If there is which team would be going?


Discussion: Hello from Windsor! By: ViperHawk880 11/25/2003 19:20:05 GMT
Hello! We are the hawks from windsor! We have the best plans for this years season which is our 2nd. We will try to aim for something bigger this year atfer we won the Robust design award.

  1. Message by: 10/27/2003 19:41:19 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 10/29/2003 20:56:07 GMT
      Wow this is your second year. It is our first...we are rookies from Toronto.


    2. Message by: legofreaks3296 10/30/2003 20:00:01 GMT
      Woah!A second year this our first in Calgary!


    3. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/02/2003 19:46:56 GMT
      b I even made a vertical motor mount for our bot this year!
      We're not as behind on our work this year but last year that was the real problem, but we we're able to make it by building a roverbot.


      1. Message by: GYRO2817 11/03/2003 02:12:22 GMT
        You mean your RCX is mounted vertically or just the motors. I don't understand what is a vetical motor mount.


        1. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/03/2003 23:42:50 GMT
          No, Just 1 motor is mounted verticaly and it's being used as a turret for our Solar Panel cleaner


        2. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/14/2003 18:39:06 GMT
          just the motor for a swing arm


    4. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/06/2003 13:55:17 GMT
      what do you mean it is being used for a solar panel
      How can that happen? Oh and by the way "mounted" means just permanently put on. Then is your solar panel shooting things or is it just ramming stuff. thats probably because your wheels are just moving the opposite ways


      1. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/07/2003 21:26:54 GMT
        For one, It's attached together using lego (Of course!)
        Also we were talking about the clear the dust off the solar panel challenge.


      2. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/14/2003 18:40:18 GMT
        the are swings and clears the solar panel


    5. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/20/2003 19:27:04 GMT
      Hello from Toronto ...
      New Caption Contest.
      : , .
      : ; .


    6. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/20/2003 19:29:02 GMT
      Do you call your robot any name?


    7. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/20/2003 19:33:38 GMT
      Hello,........Are you calling your robot a name? If you are what is it? BYE F0R NOWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    8. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/20/2003 19:39:23 GMT
      A now but for some of us it is our first.


    9. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/25/2003 19:20:05 GMT
      Do you call your robot any name?


Discussion: Reasearch By: SMMS 02/02/2004 19:29:23 GMT
Hi we are a team from Stamford, Connecticut if you have any info on reasearch postit in the Conect i cut folder.

  1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 10/29/2003 20:59:14 GMT
    Hi we had 2 people research the Mav Launcher. We know how the real one looks and about the Mars project in 2015 when astronauts will try to live in a habitation module. Hi from Toronto


    1. Message by: SMMS 11/03/2003 21:41:16 GMT
      Hi, my team is interested to see how the real MAV Launcher looks. Could you please send us the link.
      Thank you. :)

      Team SMMS Connecticut USA ;)


    2. Message by: teamtech13 02/02/2004 19:29:23 GMT
      Our team is reasearching the MAV launcher as well


Discussion: Hi! By: ViperHawk880 12/05/2003 23:11:55 GMT
Hi! this is Viperhawk880. We are from Windsor. We have finished our project already.

  1. Message by: 10/27/2003 19:30:26 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/27/2003 22:33:48 GMT
      you are a bunch of showoffs


    2. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/27/2003 22:36:06 GMT
      Blaine school says hi and good luck at the turnament


    3. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/27/2003 22:39:55 GMT
      what was your reaserch project


    4. Message by: churchill4/5martians 10/29/2003 21:01:04 GMT
      we have almost finished our research project too. We are making a presentation. Hi from Toronto!


    5. Message by: SMMS 11/03/2003 15:26:03 GMT
      Hi we are from Connecticut USA.
      :)
      Team SMMS ;)


    6. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/14/2003 17:26:51 GMT
      Hi Im a VIPER HAWK from Windsor Ontario Canada.
      How are you doing on your robot so far?
      If you are having any trouble just ask me.
      because Im real smart.


    7. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/21/2003 19:23:52 GMT
      Right...


    8. Message by: Dragons901 12/05/2003 23:11:55 GMT
      crazy people and what churchill4/5martians said


Discussion: hay By: ViperHawk880 11/21/2003 00:14:16 GMT
hellow from windsor ontario

  1. Message by: GYRO2817 11/21/2003 00:14:16 GMT
    Hello from Georgetown, Ontario. Good luck.


Discussion: hellow from windsor By: ViperHawk880 11/25/2003 19:27:05 GMT
hi we are the viperhawk880 in Windser Ontario,has any one finished yet?

  1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 10/30/2003 19:23:56 GMT
    Hello we are just starting mission 1
    what about you


    1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 10/30/2003 19:25:32 GMT
      Hello we are just starting mission 1
      what about you?????

      Good luck


      1. Message by: 11/07/2003 21:25:36 GMT
        Deleted


      2. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/07/2003 21:29:47 GMT
        We are an mission 2&3. Good luck.


      3. Message by: 11/10/2003 19:42:18 GMT
        Deleted


    2. Message by: ViperHawk880 10/31/2003 02:46:36 GMT
      we are working on the first mission


    3. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/07/2003 21:24:20 GMT
      Are you aloud to have an arm attachments hang over the transportation base?


      1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/20/2003 19:39:35 GMT
        HHHHHEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    4. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/25/2003 19:21:24 GMT
      Hello is this your first year? This is our first year too.


    5. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/25/2003 19:27:05 GMT
      HHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOO

      HOW ARE YOU? IS THIS YOUR FIRST YEAR?


Discussion: Hi from Connecticut USA By: SMMS 11/19/2003 21:45:42 GMT
Hi, my team would like to ralk to yours.
:)
Team SMMS ;)

  1. Message by: 11/14/2003 18:37:51 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: 11/14/2003 18:39:00 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/14/2003 18:43:03 GMT
      hay did you mean you wonted the talk to us or rock us?


      1. Message by: SMMS 11/19/2003 21:45:42 GMT
        I meant talk thanks for pointing it out. :)

        Teams SMMS Connecticut USA ;)


Discussion: help, one motor goes faster than another although they bothare the same type, it's nothing to do with the cogs By: challoner233 12/05/2003 20:16:54 GMT
helllllp we've only got a week before we have the competition

  1. Message by: gearheads3580 11/11/2003 17:38:21 GMT
    you cant do anything about it sorry


    1. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/11/2003 21:24:27 GMT
      The problem could be that you set the power levels diffrently on each drive motor. You should always make sure that both drive motors are the same power level.

      Here's an example:
      A-8 B-6 C-7 =Wrong!
      A-8 B-6 C-8= Right!


    2. Message by: 12/05/2003 20:16:54 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: How do you order stuff By: gearheads3580 11/26/2003 19:21:25 GMT
could someone please help us we dont know where to order our equipment

  1. Message by: gearheads3580 11/11/2003 17:47:12 GMT
    How do you order or buy part for the game board??


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/17/2003 22:22:36 GMT
      i DONT KNOW, MY MASTERS


    2. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/26/2003 19:21:25 GMT
      We dont now.But we can find out.Do you what us too? -ROBBYN


Discussion: out of time? By: ViperHawk880 02/02/2004 19:32:57 GMT
with the Windsor tournament on november 15 2003 how many people are struggling to finish is time for the tournament? we have 1 mission attempt finished and working on the second.

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/17/2003 21:50:59 GMT
    many.were on our 5th.


    1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/20/2003 19:22:35 GMT
      Are you done yet?


    2. Message by: cove cliff3394 11/20/2003 22:50:54 GMT
      how do you download to USB port??


    3. Message by: teamtech13 02/02/2004 19:32:57 GMT
      I'm from Edmonton and our team has a Calgary competition on Saturday(Feb.7. Is anyone going to that competition?? Our team is done our robot and is now putting the finishing touches on. Are you supposed to have many robots?


Discussion: Winners of the Newfoundland & Labrodor Tournament By: crusaders2601 01/10/2004 06:29:31 GMT
The winners of the newfoundland and labrodor robotics tournament was st. francis school... congratulations St. Francis!!!!

  1. Message by: ReD_TiTaNs459 01/08/2004 18:08:52 GMT
    I bet our robot could beat yours. and then some


    1. Message by: ReD_TiTaNs459 01/08/2004 18:09:01 GMT
      llama


    2. Message by: 01/08/2004 18:09:33 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 01/10/2004 06:29:31 GMT
      Well done St. Francis!


Discussion: Is anyone going to the Calgary competition? By: teamtech13 02/02/2004 23:42:46 GMT
Are any teams going to the Calgary compeition? What teams? Are there any Edmonton teams going? I have heard there are none other than our team. What teams are coming from Alberta?

  1. Message by: JWLonghorns3962 02/02/2004 23:42:46 GMT
    teamtec13,

    JWLonghorns are attending the Calgary FLL Challenge. We are from John Ware Junior High School in Calgary.



Folder: CHINA - [for Chinese members] 12/04/2003 03:29:26 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns China in this folder.

Discussion: REASEARCH HELP By: Marbots 11/14/2003 01:56:11 GMT
OUR TEAM NEEDS INFORMATION ON ICECORES. I wonder if you could possibly direct us to the right spot. PLEASE!!!!

  1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/09/2003 02:33:32 GMT
    whats tnhis for you only have a few weeks left before the tounament so i sugest that you get that robao done soon or else you won't have time to battle.


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 22:13:57 GMT
      hi


    2. Message by: Roadrunners3793 11/13/2003 23:17:01 GMT
      If I only had a couple of weeks left to finish my project I would do more reaserch and do more work instead of talking


    3. Message by: SMMS 11/14/2003 01:55:59 GMT
      Check the links under research on this site. It's right in front of you!

      Team SMMS Connecticut USA :) ;)


Discussion: REASEARCH HELP By: Marbots 11/14/2003 17:36:07 GMT
OUR TEAM NEEDS INFORMATION ON ICECORES. I wonder if you could possibly direct us to the right spot. PLEASE!!!!

  1. Message by: metal martians 2537 10/21/2003 01:40:33 GMT
    We are doing the same research project. We went to www.askjeeves.com to help us. Try this site and type the question "Is there ice on Mars?" This should give you some help. Good luck!
    Lauren and Adam


    1. Message by: Roadrunners3793 11/13/2003 23:20:01 GMT
      Hola! ge thu aseas


    2. Message by: Roadrunners3793 11/13/2003 23:22:56 GMT
      ?bola! a it be gust rear robots?


    3. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/14/2003 17:36:07 GMT
      yes :)


Discussion: Legoreds meet Robolions By: Legoreds 12/04/2003 03:29:26 GMT
Hi
good luck and don't Lusch

P.S

The girls love you
and want meet you in kologne

  1. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/24/2003 23:11:41 GMT
    r u guys really from china


    1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/25/2003 19:37:07 GMT
      HELLO EVERYBODY!!!


    2. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/25/2003 19:39:31 GMT
      chong,ching,chang! Those are team members names!


    3. Message by: Rogue Leaders 12/04/2003 03:29:26 GMT
      wat the hell doers choin ching chang mean in english



Folder: DEUTSCHLAND - [for German and Austrian members] 12/17/2003 02:45:06 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Germany and Austria in this folder.


Folder: Darf der Robo in der Base gedreht werden 11/17/2003 22:19:11 GMT
Hi,
Ich mach es mal kurz! Darf der Robo in der Base gedreht werden?
Unser Team und Ich w*rden uns *ber eine schnelle antwort freuen!

Discussion: Legoreds By: Legoreds 11/17/2003 22:19:11 GMT
Ich d*rft in der Base mit dem Roboter machen was ihr wollt.

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/17/2003 22:19:11 GMT
    HYEWMN JGHUE KGHIGOFLFYURTTU DKFJGIERORT KHIHOOP



Folder: Frankfurt am Main Wettbewerb 11/20/2003 23:43:35 GMT
Hi,
macht ihr den Habitant?




Folder: Was nicht interessiert 11/14/2003 16:26:21 GMT
Dieser Wettbewerb hat nichts mit logik zu tun und macht einfach was ihr wollt. Also sch*n dumm programieren und nichts kluges einbauen.

Discussion: Legoreds By: Legoreds 11/14/2003 16:26:21 GMT
Wer hat gesagt das wir nur dumm programmieren.


Folder: wie viele punkte habt ihr schon 11/15/2003 13:14:51 GMT
hey an alle ich schreibe gerade aus einem amerikanischen team
das ist ganz cool wir haben schon 270 punkte in 2 min. schreibt mir.
wir werden siegen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Discussion: punkte By: Legoreds 11/15/2003 13:14:51 GMT
ihr gewinnt das ich nicht lache
wir holen in 2,5 minuten 339 punkte

  1. Message by: marstronauten 11/03/2003 15:48:28 GMT
    hi ich hab mal eine Frage an euch wer kommt eigentlich ins Finale. wie viel punkte habt ihr jetzt schon?
    mfg
    Mario (Marstronauten)


    1. Message by: Legoreds 11/04/2003 08:06:15 GMT
      Immer noch 339 Punkte unser Programm steht und ihr?
      Das Fragen wir gerade bei der Discusion "Finale"


    2. Message by: team1029 11/12/2003 14:33:41 GMT
      was haltet ihr von dem Mist mit den designpunkten ?????????
      Obwohl doch nicht so schlecht da k*nnen wir ein paar Punkte holen (-:


    3. Message by: Legoreds 11/15/2003 13:14:51 GMT
      design punkte sind cool


Discussion: Legoreds By: Legoreds 10/30/2003 16:33:36 GMT
Das dachten wir auch aber wir haben wenn uns kein Fehler passiert 330 Punkte
Tretet ihr in Deutschland an? Wenn ja dann wo? Frankfurt?

Discussion: FLL Forum Online! By: HoT1000 10/20/2003 15:11:53 GMT
Hallo FLL Teams,
herzlich willkommen im FLL Forum. Habt ihr bereits mit den Vorbereitungen begonnen? Ist das FLL Challenge Set bei Euch angekommen?

Wir w*nschen Euch viel Spa* mit FIRST LEGO League!
HANDS on TECHNOLOGY e.V.

  1. Message by: ggs1053 09/10/2003 15:38:18 GMT
    Hallo

    Alle Unterlagen sind da. Hat prima geklappt. Die Vorbereitungen starten. Das Team *bt flei*ig.
    Unsere Homepage ist in Arbeit. Der Link folgt.
    Beste Gr**e aus Lingen (Ems)


    1. Message by: it-cce 09/10/2003 15:51:56 GMT
      Hallo miteinander,

      das Challenge Set ist heute bei uns angekommen. Wir sind gespannt auf die Aufgabe. Am Freitag, 19. Sept., trifft sich unser Team das erstemal.

      Auf einen guten, spannenden Wettkampf!

      "it-CCE - Die Mindtoren"

      http://it-cce.de


    2. Message by: Discovery 1005 09/10/2003 18:04:34 GMT
      Allerherzichsten Dank f*r die prompte Hilfe. Dann kann es ja auch weitergehen. Ich habe *brigens auch 4 oder sogar 5 M*dchen in dem Team.

      D. Hennecke


    3. Message by: m.a.r.s.1041 09/11/2003 08:29:23 GMT
      Hallo

      Gr**e aus dem *u*ersten S*den(Bodenseeraum).
      Auch wir haben das Challenge Set erhalten und m*chten uns auf diesem Wege herzlich daf*r bedanken. Hoffen auf gute Zusammenarbeit.

      H.Stengel vom Team m.a.r.s. (mobile advanced robot systems)


    4. Message by: RoboCops1031 09/11/2003 12:25:34 GMT
      Hallo!
      Die Erfurter RoboCops gr**en alle anderen FLL-Teams und w*nschen viel Spa* beim T*fteln! Wir sind schon gespannt auf die Aufgabe und legen am 16.9 los!

      Die RoboCops


    5. Message by: Die_Hirschen1008 09/11/2003 15:31:04 GMT
      Hallo!
      Wir bauen seit heute das Challange Set zusammen. Montag erstes Treffen, Dienstag geht die Post ab! ;-)

      Die Hirschen


    6. Message by: Marsianer 09/11/2003 16:09:45 GMT
      Hallo Deutschland, servus *sterreich!
      Wir bauen seit heute 11.09.2003 das Challenge Set.
      Viel Gl*ck beim Programmieren und Bauen. Wir sehen uns beim Wettkampf.
      Die ComBioniks


    7. Message by: marstronauten 09/15/2003 19:19:45 GMT
      Hy Deutschland und *sterreich! Wir haben am 12.09.03 mit dem
      Set begonnen!! Alles Gute beim Wettkampf!!!!
      Die Marstronauten


    8. Message by: Roboticgirls1033 09/16/2003 18:19:24 GMT
      Viele Gr**e und gro*es Daumen dr*cken an alle Teams.

      Heute sind wir schon kr*ftig am arbeiten, haben auch schon einige Ideen wie wir die Aufgaben umsetzen wollen. Auf jeden Fall wird`s spannend.
      In unserem Team sind *brigens nur M*dels...


    9. Message by: nonnbots1011 09/16/2003 20:00:31 GMT
      Hallo FLL Teams,
      Viele Gr**e zun*chst mal und viel Spa* beim Wettbewerb.
      Die Aufgaben sind raus und ich habe gleich mal ein paar Fragen zum Ablauf. Wenn ich das richtig verstanden habe, dann haben wir 2.5 Minuten, um die Aufgaben zu l*sen. Wie viele dieser Matches gibt es f*r jedes Team? M*ssen alle Aufgaben in dieser Zeit erledigt sein oder kann man sich das einteilen auf sp*tere Matches?

      Ich st*bere noch was die Unterlagen. Vielleicht steht es dort genauer geschrieben.


    10. Message by: HoT2003 09/17/2003 11:32:45 GMT
      Liebe FLL Teams,

      ich antworte auf die Frage von den "nonnbots": jedes Team kann in drei Runden (sogenannten Matches) starten und die Missionen nach einer eigenen Strategie l*sen. Dabei m*ssen nicht alle Missionen angegangen werden - ihr k*nnt Euch auf Eure Strategie konzentrieren. Die h*chste Punktzahl aus diesen drei Matches z*hlt dann f*r die Qualifizierung f*r die n*chsten Runden. Ihr habt also dreimal die Chance, einen guten, punktreichen Run zu erzielen.

      Schaut doch ab und an in die Rubrik "Fragen und Antworten" auf den FLL Webseiten. Dort werden h*ufig gestellte Fragen beantwortet.

      Viel Spa* am Gusev-Krater w*nscht Euch
      Euer Team der FLL Deutschland + *sterreich


    11. Message by: marstronauten 09/18/2003 15:46:46 GMT
      Hi an alle teams wie gehts auch habt ihr schon flei*ig gebaut ? wir bauen flei*ig an den robotern


    12. Message by: marstronauten 09/18/2003 15:49:21 GMT
      Hi, an alle Teams aus *sterreich und Deutschland!
      Wir wollten fragen ob wir alle Forschungsaufgaben beantworten m*ssen oder nur eine von den allen?
      Ciao und noch sch*ne Gr**e aus Telfs!
      Die Marstronauten.
      ^_^


      1. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 09/20/2003 16:59:55 GMT
        Hallo Marstronauten,

        so wie ich das verstanden habe, muss man sich f*r eine der "Roboter-Aufgaben", die beschrieben sind entscheiden, also zum Beispiel :"Gusev Krater Landeplatz", "Die Eiskerne", "MAV Launcher", ...
        Und bei dieser Aufgabe einscheidet man sich dann f*r einen der Forschungsvorschl*ge oder denkt sich einen neuen dazu aus und bearbeitet diesen.
        Ich hoffe, ihr habt verstanden, wie ich das mein'.
        Viel Spa* beim Forschen!
        Eure Desiwiniwasitu (Andrea)!


    13. Message by: Roboticgirls 09/18/2003 17:57:15 GMT
      Hallo ihr FLL-Mitglieder!
      Ich wollt mal fragen ob man die 180*C Module ankleben soll. Denn wenn man die wirklich ankleben muss, wie soll man dann die 180*C Module mit den 90*C Modul verbinden? Weil es sind dann ja alle angeklebt.

      Ich wei* nun nich ob das wirklich so drin steht, doch ich hab das so verstanden. Vielleicht k*nnt ihr mir ja weiter helfen. W*re wirklich sehr nett von euch!


    14. Message by: marstronauten 09/19/2003 21:08:56 GMT
      die 180* Module muss man durch magneten verbinden


      1. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 09/20/2003 14:54:52 GMT
        Wir haben die gleiche Frage, wie die Roboticgirls, n*mlich, ob man die beiden 180* Module, wie es in der Anleitung steht, wirklich in der Base ankleben muss. Dann kann man die Aufgabe n*mlich gar nicht l*sen. Uns ist aber klar, dass es die Aufgabe ist, die Module durch Magneten zu verbinden. Wer kann uns diese Frage beantworten?

        (Andrea, Annalena, Anni, Moritz)


    15. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 09/20/2003 22:19:15 GMT
      Hallo FLL!
      Wir haben noch ein paar Fragen:

      1.Welche Motoren darf man denn beim Wettkampf nun verwenden?
      2. Wird die Sandd*ne beim Wettkampf festgeklebt bzw. wie weit darf sie verrutscht werden, ohne das es Strafpunkte gibt?

      (i.A.Annalena)


    16. Message by: Pungschter Roboteam1038 09/22/2003 14:46:21 GMT
      Gude!
      Wir Pungschter Roboteam gr**en alle anderen FFL-Teams und w*nschen allen viel Spa* beim zusammen bauen des Roboters!

      MFG

      Pungschter Roboteam


    17. Message by: interrobostorms1040 09/22/2003 15:35:10 GMT
      Hallo liebe Teams

      Auch wir haben uns inzwischen im Forum angemeldet.
      Herzliche Gr**e aus Lienz in Osttirol in *sterreich.
      Wir freuen uns sehr mit euch in aller Welt zusammen arbeiten zu k*nnen.

      Alles gute w*nscht euch die
      interrobostorms.


    18. Message by: interrobostorms1040 09/22/2003 15:41:27 GMT
      WICHTIGE FRAGEN - K*nnt ihr uns bitte helfen!!!!!!!!

      Muss der Roboter bei jeder Mission von der Base starten?

      Kann der Tisch aus Metall sein?

      Sind die Hindernisse selbst zu bauen?

      K*nnen die Bauteile der Hindernisse f*r den Roboter verwendet werden?

      Kann man die Teile der Hindernisse f*r den Roboter verwenden?

      lg die
      Interrobostorms


    19. Message by: HoT2003 09/22/2003 17:39:25 GMT
      WICHTIGE ANTWORTEN:
      Der Roboter mu* bei jedem Missionsversuch aus der Base starten.

      Der Tisch kann aus allen mgl. Materialien sein, Hauptsache ist, dass er den Tischma*en entspricht.

      Die Hindernisse, die sogen. Aufgabenkulisse, ist von jedem Team selbst zusammenzubauen.

      Die Bauteile sollten nicht f*r die Roboter verwendet werden. Ihr gef*hrdet damit die Richtigkeit Eurer Vorbereitungen.

      Wie meint ihr die letzte Frage?

      Liebe Gr**e.
      HANDS on TECHNOLOGY


    20. Message by: HoT2003 09/22/2003 17:42:47 GMT
      180* Versuchsmodule NICHT festkleben - bitte lest Euch die Angaben genau durch!
      Die Sand*ne ebenfalls NICHT festkleben! Sonst w*re es ja keine echte Sandd*ne - Sand ger*t schnell in Bewegung.


    21. Message by: Roboticgirls 09/22/2003 17:57:21 GMT
      Hallo an alle,
      wir haben einen Tag, nachdem wir die Frage mit den 180*-Modulen hier gestellt hatten, Dateien von FLL bekommen wo nochmal genau drin steht, dass diese Module NICHT fest geklebt werden sollen. War wohl ein Denk-/Schreibfehler auf der Seite.
      Viele Gr**e an alle
      Die Roboticgirls


    22. Message by: TeamGGS1053 09/22/2003 19:33:21 GMT
      Hallo & Frage!

      Ist es egal wie der Roboter konstruiert wird und wieviele Teile man verwendet? (ausgenommen die Angaben *ber Elektronische Teile).
      Kann man also aus dem Mars Exploration Set Bauteile nehmen oder ist nur das Challenge Set die Grundlage.

      Beste Gr**e TeamGGS aus Lingen


    23. Message by: Professor Pi*s Kids 1014 09/23/2003 10:13:08 GMT
      *nderung der Aufgabe "*ffne die Startrampe"

      Hallo,

      nun v*llig irritiert,

      kann der Roboter nun einfach von der Plattform genommen werden und erneut aus der Base starten z.B. mit seinen Versorgungspaketen.

      Das w*rde aber auch immer hei*en, es g*be einen Strafpunkt, da mit der Hand ber*hrt.

      Allerdings w*re es auch so, wenn wir die komplette Rampe runterfahren w*rden, m*sste bereits etwas mitgenommen werden an Ladung (Versorgungspakte oder Kanister), da wir ja von der Base dann ein ganzes St*ck entfernt w*ren, wenn wir die Rampe verlassen haben.(man m*sste dann den Roboter auch in die Base von Hand setzen, um mit der L*sung der anderen Missionen beginnen zu k*nnen).
      Ganz eindeutig finden wir das nun nicht. Wie sind nun die Regeln.

      Tsch*ss euer Team Professor Pi*s Kids


    24. Message by: HoT2003 09/24/2003 09:59:15 GMT
      Hallo 1014,

      die Plattform ist eine alternative Startposition zur Base, nachdem die Rampe vollst*ndig vom Roboter ge*ffnet wurde (vgl. "*ffnet die Startrampe"). Alternativ bedeuted: nachdem die Rampe ordnungsgem** ge*ffnet wurde, ist die Plattform gleich bzw. ein Teil der Base und unterliegt den Regelungen der Base.

      *berlegt Euch nocheinmal Eure Ausgangspostition und die Strategie f*r Euren Roboter - die Strategien stehen nicht in den Regeln :-) Es gibt sicherlich viele M*glichkeiten, den Roboter auf die Missionen zu schicken, ohne ihn mit der Hand zur*ck holen zu m*ssen.

      Viele gute Ideen w*nscht Euch
      HANDS on TECHNOLOGY e.V.


    25. Message by: interrobostorms1040 09/24/2003 15:30:06 GMT
      Wichtige Zusatzfragen: Optional Leuchtstoffr*hren: K*nnt ihr uns bitte helfen!!!!!!!!

      a) Wieviele Leuchtstoffr*hren braucht es? Einfach oder doppelt
      b) 40 Watt * Die Standardlampe hat nur 36 Watt. Die 40 Watt Lampe ist wesentlich teurer * was tun ?
      c) Soll in der Lampe ein Reflektor eingebaut sein?

      lg die
      Interrobostorms

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    26. Message by: ADS1063 09/24/2003 19:46:02 GMT
      Frage zum Ablauf !

      Wie l*uft der Wettbewerb genau ab. Sollte der Roboter alle Aufgaben in 2,5 Minuten schaffen.
      Oder verteilt man die Aufgaben auf die drei Runden?

      Wie kann ein Missionsversuch misslingen und wie gehts dann weiter.

      Aus der Aufgabenstellung und dem Regelwerk werden wir nicht ganz schlau. W*re sch*n, wenn jemand mit Erfahrung ein bissel erz*hlen k*nnte...

      Ansonsten w*nschen wir allen viel Spass beim T*ffteln und Denken !!

      Gr**e


    27. Message by: Pungschter Roboteam1038 09/25/2003 14:30:48 GMT
      Hallo FLL Teams,
      wir haben hier ein paar Fragen und hoffen das ihr uns helfen k**nt!

      1)Stehen alle Hindernisse bzw. Aufgaben alle gleichzeitig auf dem Feld oder werden sie f*r die jeweilige Aufgabe aufgestellt?
      2)Genaue Angaben f*r Zeit? Hat man insgesammt 150 sekunden oder f*r jede Aufgabe???

      Viele Gr**e

      Pungschter Roboteam


      1. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 09/26/2003 16:16:19 GMT
        Hallo Pungschter Roboteam,

        bei eurer ersten Frage kann ich euch leider nicht helfen, aber die Antwort auf die zweite hab' ich -hoff' ich richtig -herausgefunden:
        Jedes Team spielt 3 Matches gegen verschiedene Gegner. Jedes Match dauert 2,5 Minuten. In dieser Zeit m*sst ihr soviele Aufgaben wie m*glich erf*llen oder euch auf einzelne Aufgaben konzentrieren. Bei jedem Match wird die erreichte Punktzahl aufgeschrieben und nach drei Runden (eine Runde ist fertig, wenn jedes Team einmal angetreten ist) bekommt jedes Team soviele Punkte als Endpunkte aufgeschrieben, wie es in seinem besten Versuch (von den dreien) erreicht hat. Also hat man insgesamt 150 Sekunden, aber drei Versuche. Ich hoffe, ich hab' das verst*ndlich erkl*rt.
        Viele Gr**e
        Andrea


    28. Message by: TeamGGS1053 09/26/2003 10:58:46 GMT
      Hab ne Frag!!
      Muss man die Eiskerne auf die startrampe zur*ck bringen???????


      1. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 09/26/2003 15:40:31 GMT
        Hallo Team GGS,

        es steht in den Aufgaben, dass man die Eiskerne in die Base zur*ckbringen muss. Wenn ihr die Startrampe heruntergeklappt, z*hlt die ja auch zur Base, also k*nnt ihr die Eiskerne auch dahin bringen. Ich glaube zwar, dass es einfacher w*re sie unten in der Base abzuladen, aber das k*nnt ihr ja machen, wie ihr wollt.

        Viele Gr**e
        Andrea


    29. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 09/26/2003 15:54:55 GMT
      Nochmal zu unserer Motorenfrage:
      Man darf ja 3 Motoren einsetzen. Gibt es da eine Regel, welche Motoren erlaubt sind, oder darf man einfach alle einsetzen, solange es nur drei sind und alle von LEGO sind? Also zum Beispiel gibt es in dem Kasten "Lego Mindstorms for Schools" Motoren mit der Nummer 43362, die langsamer drehen als Motoren (in anderen Sets) mit der Nummer 2838. Au*erdem w*rden wir gerne wissen, ob auch Mikromotoren erlaubt sind.
      Wir w*rden uns *ber eine Antwort freuen!
      Desiwiniwasitu
      (Andrea)


    30. Message by: Marsianer 10/08/2003 14:55:14 GMT
      Hallo ihr aus der Informatik AG!
      Wir von der Dr.Aloys Wei*enbach Hauptschule k*nnen eure frage beantworten.
      Man muss die Eiskerne nur zur*ck in die Base bringen.

      MFG
      Die Marsianer


    31. Message by: marstronauten 10/09/2003 16:14:51 GMT
      Hallo an alle Teams! Eine Frage: Kann man die Anh*ngkupplung beim Rover drehen wie man will oder nicht? Hoffen auf schnelle Antwort! Danke im Voraus die Marstronauten


    32. Message by: 10/09/2003 16:42:48 GMT
      Deleted


    33. Message by: marstronauten 10/09/2003 16:43:34 GMT
      Entschuldigung noch eine Frage: Wenn man den Rover zur Base bringt, kann man dann die Sandd*ne einfach mitziehen, denn diese ist ja nicht befestigt oder nicht. Viele Gr**e aus Telfs in Tirol Die Marstronauten


      1. Message by: nonnbots1011 10/13/2003 19:22:51 GMT
        hallo, wir haben die sandd*ne befestigt, so dass man sie nicht mehr bewegen kann. ist das ewta falsch? gru*


        1. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 10/17/2003 16:04:14 GMT
          Liebe nonnbots,

          In der Anleitung steht, dass man die Sandd*ne NICHT befestigen soll!!!!
          "Ebenfalls NICHT sichern. Einfach auf der entsprechenden Stelle aufstellen (der Rover kommt auf die Spitze)"
          D.h: Ihr M*sst die Sandd*ne wieder losmachen!

          Viel Gl*ck und Gr**e

          Desiwiniwasitu (Florian)


    34. Message by: Marsexplorers1030 10/10/2003 20:49:33 GMT
      Hallo. Wir sind die Mars Explorers und m*chten wissen, was die Verbindung der 180* Module *ber Haltegabeln bedeutet.
      Kann das jemand erkl*ren?
      Ciao


    35. Message by: Chaos Designer 1026 10/14/2003 08:19:28 GMT
      Hi, wir sind die Chaos Designer. Das mit dem Rover ist ein wahres Problem, da der Roboter eher die D*ne als den Rover verschiebt. Trotzdem ist es verboten die D*ne zu befestigen.

      mfg
      Chaos Designer


    36. Message by: Marsianer 10/14/2003 15:22:20 GMT
      Hallo an die Hot 2003!
      K*nnt ihr uns sagen ob man beim Rover die Sandd*ne mit*in die Base bringen kann?
      Bitte schnell antworten!

      Die Marsianer


    37. Message by: Marsianer 10/14/2003 15:42:12 GMT
      Hallo wir haben ja eben gefragt ob man die sandd*ne mit in
      die base nehmen darf.
      bitte alle Teams antworten.
      Gru* die Marsianer


    38. Message by: otto1022 10/16/2003 14:24:31 GMT
      Servus an alle! Wir sind`s, Otto`s Enkel.
      Wir kommen jetzt ganz sch*n in Zeitdruck, wir fangen heute erst an zu programmieren.
      CU soon Lena und Verena in Vertretung f*r Trixi, Steffi, J*rgen und Herrn Bacher.


    39. Message by: HoT2003 10/20/2003 15:11:53 GMT
      Hallo Marsianer. In den Regeln spricht nichts dagegen.


    40. Message by: GMT


Discussion: Neue Regel f*r die Startrampe By: desiwiniwasitu 10/06/2003 21:45:01 GMT
Die alte Version der Regel lautet: "Der Roboter mu* die Rampe *ffnen und muss *ber die Rampe die Plattform verlassen",
in der neuen hei*t es "muss sowohl die Rampe als auch die Plattform verlassen haben, bevor der Missionsversuch beendet ist."

Verstehe ich das richtig, dass der Roboter nach der neuen Regel von der Plattform theoretisch auch springen, fliegen oder st*rzen d*rfte?

Katja Mayer

  1. Message by: HoTSupport 09/23/2003 11:17:59 GMT
    Hallo Katja,

    die alte Regel besagt, dass der Roboter die Plattform *ber die Rampe zu verlassen hat. Das hie*e ja der Roboter hat theoretisch die Plattform bereits verlassen, auch wenn er noch auf der Rampe steht.
    Die neue Regel erkl*rt die alte Regel lediglich etwas genauer, n*mlich dass der Roboter die Plattform *BER die Rampe und schlie*lich auch noch die Rampe zu verlassen hat.

    Ciao,
    Mirko

    Hands on Technology e.V. Support


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Discussion: Roboterbau By: TeamGGS1053 09/26/2003 10:59:51 GMT
Hallo & Frage!

Ist es egal wie der Roboter konstruiert wird und wieviele Teile man verwendet? (ausgenommen die Angaben *ber Elektronische Teile).
Kann man also aus dem Mars Exploration Set Bauteile nehmen oder ist nur das Challenge Set die Grundlage.

Beste Gr**e TeamGGS aus Lingen

  1. Message by: HoT2003 09/24/2003 09:33:45 GMT
    Hallo Team GGS1053,

    f*r den Roboter sind die zugelassenen elektronischen Bauteile siehe "Wettbewerbsregeln" erlaubt. Ihr k*nnt zus*tzlich zur Konstruktion beliebig viele/wenig LEGO Bausteine benutzen, egal aus welchem Set sie sind.

    Viel Spa* weiterhin w*nscht Euch
    HANDS on TECHNOLOGY e.V.


    1. Message by: Pungschter Roboteam1038 09/25/2003 14:09:45 GMT
      Hallo und Frage!
      Wir gr**en alle Teams und haben hier ein paar Fragen!

      1)Stehen alle Hindernisse bzw. Aufgaben alle gleichzeitig auf dem Feld oder werden sie f*r die jeweilige Aufgabe aufgestellt?

      2)Genaue Angaben f*r Zeit?

      Wir hoffen ihr k*nnt uns weiter helfen!

      Viele Gr**en von den Pungschter Roboteam


    2. Message by: 09/26/2003 10:59:51 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: Stand des Roboters auf der Base beim Neustart oder R*ckkehr By: Discovery 1005 11/25/2003 19:06:17 GMT
Hallo, alle miteinander, unser team hat die folgende Frage an die Wettbewerbsleitung: 1)Es ist uns klar, wenn man den Robo nach einer Mission wie kann er dann in der Base stehen?Angenommen, man hat ein etwas ausladenderes Teil irgendwo angebaut, muss er dann auch komplett mit (!) Anbau auf der Base beim neuen Start stehen oder nur der Kernrobo? 2) Der Robo f*hrt nach einer Aufgabenl*sung in die Base zur*ck, z.B. hat er die Eiskerne geholt und er will zur*ck, um sie abzuladen. Muss dann der komplette Robo mit Anbau, mit allen Eiskernen irgendwo drauf auf der Base stehen oder gilt der Robo als "zur*ck in der Base" wenn irgendein Teil von dem Originalrobo in der Base ist, z.B. er ist mit einem Rad in der Base , oder muss er komplett drin stehen - oder reicht auch irgendein gr**eres angebautes TEil ?

  1. Message by: HoTSupport 10/08/2003 09:07:16 GMT
    Hallo,
    zur Startposition des Roboters:
    der Roboter muss komplett, d.h. mit allen drum und dran in der Base sein. Nicht nur der RCX, sondern das Gesamte Konstrukt.
    Ebenso muss der Roboter auch am Ende einer Mission wieder in der Base stehen.

    |Hands On Technology : Support|


    1. Message by: HoTSupport 10/08/2003 09:10:53 GMT
      Sorry,
      kleiner Fehler von mir:
      Es reicht, wenn der Roboter die Base nach einer Mission wenigstens teilweise erreicht!

      |Hands On Technology : Support|


    2. Message by: 11/25/2003 19:06:17 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: Abladen der Eiskerne ? By: Discovery 1005 11/24/2003 23:13:19 GMT


  1. Message by: interrobostorms1040 10/16/2003 13:15:15 GMT
    Hallo ihr da drausen

    Wir wollten nur fragen ob die Eiskerns stehender abgeladen werden m*ssen oder sie liegen k*nnen?

    alles Gute die

    Interrobostorms


    1. Message by: Legoreds 10/27/2003 14:29:10 GMT
      hi
      das ist so etwas von egal
      nat*rlich m*ssen die nicht stehend abgeladen werden
      das ist fast unm*glich
      bei uns liegen sie auch
      wieviele punkte holt ihr ungef*hr


    2. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/24/2003 23:12:38 GMT
      hi hagas gan sdfh lsddf


    3. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/24/2003 23:13:19 GMT
      das ist so etwas von egal
      nat*rlich m*ssen die nicht stehend abgeladen werden
      das ist fast unm*glich
      bei uns liegen sie auch
      wieviele punkte holt ihr ungef*hr

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Discussion: Abladen der Eiskerne ? By: Discovery 1005 11/05/2003 17:50:57 GMT
Hallo, alle miteinander, noch eine Frage bez*glich der Eiskerne. Wenn der Robo die Kerne geladen hat und zur*ckkehrt in die Base, reicht es dann, wenn der Robo ganz oder ein Teil von ihm in der Base steht, so dass wir dann die Eiskerne per Hand- ohne dass das Strafpunkte gibt- abladen k*nnen oder m*ssen die Eiskerne von irgendeiner Vorrichtung am Robo selbst abgeladen werden? *brigens- wir haben eine Menge Spass und viele Ideen, es ist ein cooler Wettbewerb.
Euer Discoveryteam aus Herten.

  1. Message by: HoT2003 10/06/2003 15:54:50 GMT
    Hallo Discovery, es reicht aus, wenn der Roboter die Base teilweise erreicht hat. Sobald ein Teil des Roboters *ber die Base-Line gefahren ist, k*nnt ihr per Hand abladen.

    Weiterhin viel Spa*.
    HANDS on TECHNOLOGY e.V.


    1. Message by: marstronauten 10/31/2003 12:22:36 GMT
      Wir haben eine Frage: Wir ziehen zwei Eisringe mit einem Stab in die Base! Der stab ist aber ganz sch*n lang, deshalb ist der Roboter und der Stab in der Base aber die Eisringe die wir mitziehen liegen mit dem unteren teil noch ein kleines St*ck au*erhalb der Base!!! Darf das sein oder nicht???????????????????????????? Bitte eine Antwort, es ist dringend!!!! Danke die Marstronauten


    2. Message by: Legoreds 11/05/2003 17:50:57 GMT
      Hi
      wir hoffen das es erlaubt ist da wir es auch so machen.
      In den Regeln steht das nur ein Teil des Roboters in der Base sein muss also m*sste es erlaubt sein. *brigen lasst den Roboter doch mal drehen wen er 2 Eiskerne (wir nennen sie scared Rings) geholt hat vielleicht holt er dann noch den 3. Legoreds


Discussion: Position des Robos By: RoboCops1031 10/30/2003 17:57:48 GMT
Hallo FLL-Teams!
Wir m*chten mal wissen, ob der Roboter nach jeder ausgef*hrten Aufgabe zur*ck zur Base muss! Das w*rde ja bedeuten, dass wir die einzelnen Aufgaben sowieso nicht miteinander verbinden und somit keine Strategie entwickeln k*nnten.
Muss der Robo zum Ende des Matches im Krater stehen oder kann er sich auch woanders befinden?
Die Regeln sind doch etwas verwirrend! Wir hoffen, es kann uns jemand helfen!
Die Erfurter RoboCops
www.roboticsclub.de


  1. Message by: nonnbots1011 09/30/2003 18:52:12 GMT
    hi, der roboter muss nicht nach jeder aufgabe zur base zurueck. gru*


    1. Message by: Discovery 1005 10/01/2003 20:07:55 GMT
      Hallo, roboticsclub, der Roboter muss nicht nach jeder Aufgabe in die Base zur*ck, wir k*nnen auch mehrere Aufgaben hintereinander durchf*hren und dann erst zu einem Umbau zur Base zur*ck. So haben wir die Aufgaben verstanden. Wenn der Robo am Ende im Krater steht, dann gibt es doch 39 Punkte und das ist doch eine Menge. Mit der Rampe zusammen h*tten wir dann schon 78 Punkte. Das ist schon eine Menge, denken wir. Noch viel Spa* .
      Discoveryteam Herten


    2. Message by: Legoreds 10/27/2003 14:32:04 GMT
      hi
      nein m*sst ihr nicht
      das gibt sehr viele punkte also ist das empfehlenswert
      wieviele punkte holt ihr so


    3. Message by: m.a.r.s.1041 10/30/2003 17:36:24 GMT
      Servus und Hallo,
      wir hamn da mal ne Frage:
      Darf der Roboter mit einzelnen Teilen *ber die Kante der Startrampe stehen?
      Wir hoffen auf schnelle Antwort.
      Euer M.A.R.S.-Team.


    4. Message by: Legoreds 10/30/2003 17:57:48 GMT
      Wir glauben hier f*r gibt es die gleiche Regel wie f*r den Rest der Base. Das bedeutet "Nein" aber wir sind uns nicht sicher. Schreibt doch mal an einen von Hands on Technologie


Discussion: Beleuchtung By: interrobostorms1040 10/17/2003 19:59:03 GMT
Wichtige Zusatzfragen: Optional Leuchtstoffr*hren: K*nnt ihr uns bitte helfen!!!!!!!!

a) Wieviele Leuchtstoffr*hren braucht es? Einfach oder doppelt

b) 40 Watt * Die Standardlampe hat nur 36 Watt. Die 40 Watt Lampe ist wesentlich teurer * was tun ?

c) Soll in der Lampe ein Reflektor eingebaut sein?

lg die
Interrobostorms

  1. Message by: Discovery 1005 10/01/2003 20:10:31 GMT
    Hallo, interrobostorms, die Beschreibungen kommen doch aus den USA. Wir haben uns n*mlich auch schon erkundigt. Deshalb auch die anderen Angaben. Wir haben unseren Tisch ohne Lampen obendr*ber gebaut, das Licht kommt von der normalen Deckenlampe in der Schule. Das geht auch. Vor allem ist dann der Tisch viel billiger.
    Discoveryteam


    1. Message by: it-cce 10/17/2003 19:59:03 GMT
      Hi Discovery 1005
      das haben wir auch versucht. Das Problem stellen nur die Lichtsensoren dar: sie reagieren sehr empfindlich auf den Winkel aus dem das licht kommt(haben wir leider festellen m*ssen). Dh wenn beim Wettbewerb doch Lampen aufgestellt werden kann es passieren dass die Lichtsensoren nicht mehr richtig funktionieren bzw umprogrammiert werden m*ssen.

      MfG das it-CCE team


Discussion: 180* Versuchsmodul By: The Rockys 11/05/2003 17:56:37 GMT
Hallo ihr da,
wir haben eine Frage, die uns richtig nervt.In der Anleitung steht, dass man die 180* Versuchsmodule "aufkleben und am besten irgendwo in der Base platzieren soll." Wir sind uns nicht sicher, weil man die 180* Versuchsmodule an das 90* Versuchsmodul schieben muss.
Danke f*r die Hilfe im Voraus.

The Rockys

  1. Message by: Discovery 1005 10/01/2003 20:13:29 GMT
    Hallo ihr ebenfalls, wir k*nnen uns nicht vorstellen, dass die Module aufgeklebt werden sollen. Wir m*ssen sie doch an das 90* Modul schieben, eventuell sogar in V-Form. Das geht doch nur, wenn man sie wirklich verschieben kann. Die Frage w*re, ob das 90iger Modul angeklebt werden muss. Aber wir meinen, dass es auch so geht, aufgrund der Magneten. Noch viel Spa*
    Discoveryteam


    1. Message by: The Rockys 10/02/2003 09:09:55 GMT
      Yo Danke f*r die Antwort.
      Das 90* Modul sol man laut Anleitung aufkleben, denn wenn es losse ist, wird es schwieriger die anderen Module dran zu schieben.
      Noch mal Danke

      und Tsch*ss

      `The Rockys* aus Rockenhausen


    2. Message by: HoT2003 10/03/2003 11:07:44 GMT
      180* NICHT aufkleben - Fehler in der *bersetzung. Die Datei ist korrigert, danke f*r den Tipp. Das 90* Modul jedoch mu* festgeklebt werden. Dann geht es wesentlich einfacher.


    3. Message by: m.a.r.s.1041 10/08/2003 13:48:07 GMT
      Darf man nach dem Beenden einer Mission die f*r diese Aufgabe ben*tigten Module vom Spielfeld von Hand entfernen?
      (Bsp.:Die 180* und 90* Module, nach erf*lltter Aufgabe.)
      Wir w*rden uns *ber eine schnelle Antwort freuen.
      Euer M.A.R.S.-Team


    4. Message by: HoTSupport 10/09/2003 17:54:57 GMT
      Hi, M.A.R.S.-Team,

      alle Elemente bleiben bei jeder Aufgabe auf dem Spielfeld.
      Lediglich die Eisw*rfel verschwinden vom Feld, wenn Ihr sie eingesammelt habt.
      Zudem werden die Felsen noch vom Feld entfernt, wenn Ihr einen Fehler macht oder sie einsammelt.

      Ciao,
      | Hands on Technology : Support |


    5. Message by: it-cce 10/23/2003 19:32:02 GMT
      Hi HoTSupport
      ich erinnere mich daran irgendwo in der Anleitung gelesen zu haben dass manche Teile nach Missionsende vom Schiedsrichter entfernt werden d*rfen. F*r welche gilt das? also wenn die Wohnmodue u. andere Teile damit nicht gemeint sind dann bleiben nur noch die "Sandk*rner" von der Solarstation. Sonst darf nichts entfernt werden?

      MfG das it-CCE


    6. Message by: marstronauten 10/27/2003 16:29:02 GMT
      Hi! Wir haben eine Frage: In der Aufgabe steht, dass man die Versuchsmodule via magnet oder mit den Haltegabeln verbunden kann? Mit welchen Haltegabeln bitte???????? Hoffen auf schnelle Antwort!!!
      Die Marstronauten aus Tirol


    7. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 11/03/2003 14:49:27 GMT
      Hallo Marstronauten,

      Wir haben ein paar Fragen, die wir hatten direkt an die Leute von HANDS on TECHNOLOGY e.V. (FLL@hands-on-technology.org) geschrieben. Das solltet ihr mit wichtigen Fragen auch tun. Die antworten superschnell und geben wirklich konkrete Antworten! Aber jetzt zu eurer Frage. Durch die Antworten von FLL habe ich herausgefunden, dass mit "Haltegabeln" einfach das Plastik um die Magneten herum gemeint ist. Wenn es also hei*t, die Module sollen sich mit den Haltegebeln verbinden, dann hei*t das, dass die Module auch als verbunden gelten, wenn sich die blanken Magneten nicht ber*hren, sich daf*r aber die zwei plastik "Haltegabeln" ber*hren und die Magneten sich anziehen. Ich hoffe, ich hab' das verst*ndlich erkl*rt.
      Viele Gr**e und viel Spa* beim Programmieren und Bauen!

      Andrea (von Desiwiniwasitu)


    8. Message by: marstronauten 11/03/2003 15:16:23 GMT
      Hi desiwiniwasitu!!!

      Danke Andrea, das war sehr verst*ndlich!!
      Daaaannnnnnnnnnkkkkkkkkeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Martin (Marstronauten)


    9. Message by: Legoreds 11/05/2003 17:56:37 GMT
      Diese Frage stellen wir uns auch die ganze Zeit. Wir haben mal gedacht damit ist gemeint das sie sich nur ber*hren brauchen. Aber das ist auch Quatsch.


Discussion: Hallo By: southwilts56 10/29/2003 01:30:51 GMT
Wir sind das Southwilts56 von England. Vielen Gluck!

  1. Message by: OfM1077 10/08/2003 11:23:41 GMT
    Meine Frage ist, ob der Roboter nach jeder Mission in die Base zur*ck kehren muss, oder ob er dann mit der Hand zur*ck geholt werden darf und die Zeit nach beendigung der Aufgabe gestoppt wird.

    Das Team OfM aus Meiendorf


    1. Message by: HoT2003 10/20/2003 15:14:00 GMT
      Hallo OfM1077: Der Roboter mu* nicht nach jeder Mission in die Base zur*ckkehren. Er kann es aber, dies mu* er jedoch eigenst*ndig tuen, bei R*ckholen mit der Hand gibt es Strafpunkte. Die Zeit l*uft durch, 2,5 Minuten hat jedes Team Zeit, dannach ist die Zeit abgelaufen. Viel Spa*!


    2. Message by: BelieverBots 2440 10/24/2003 07:44:31 GMT
      Hallo! Wir sind die BelieverBots 2440 von Alaska! Vielen Gluck!!


    3. Message by: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 10/29/2003 01:30:51 GMT
      Hallo, wir sind die mars monkeys on a stick 2026 aus Michigan in den U.S.A.


Discussion: Hallo By: southwilts56 10/27/2003 12:28:34 GMT
Wir sind das Southwilts56 von England. Vielen Gluck!

  1. Message by: Legoreds 10/27/2003 12:28:34 GMT
    hello back to england
    don*t lusch


Discussion: Habitat By: Chaos Designer 1026 11/18/2003 18:49:42 GMT
Wir wollten wissen ob ihr euch schon einmal Gedanken gemacht habt ob ihr das mit dem Habitat probiert oder es lasst.
Das Problem dabei ist ja, dass beide Gruppen diese Aufgabe synchron erledigen m*ssen, damit das Habitat nicht wieder zur*ck klappt. Wir m*ssten uns dar*ber vor dem Start einigen, ob wir das machen oder nicht sonst w*re es verschenkte Zeit.

mfg
Chaos Designer

  1. Message by: HoTSupport 10/14/2003 18:38:32 GMT
    Hi,

    jedes Team kann, muss aber nicht, die Aufgabe mit dem Habitat bew*ltigen. Demnach sollte es auch nicht zur*ck klappen, da jedes Team diese Aufgabe unabh*ngig von dem anderen Team erledigen k*nnen sollte. Falls doch, solltet Ihr *berpr*fen, ob es richtig zusammengebaut wurde und Euer Spielfeld auch wirklich gerade steht.

    Ciao,
    | Hands on Technology : Support |


    1. Message by: Chaos Designer 1026 10/15/2003 09:14:44 GMT
      Wir haben heute mit dem Habitat weiter experimentiert und haben folgendes festgestellt: Wenn wir auf eine Umrandung von 10 cm H*he, wie sie in der Bauanleitung f*r den Spieltisch vorgegeben ist, das Habitat aufsetzen, dann h*ngen die Beine in der Luft und damit bleibt die Habitath*lfte nicht fest in senkrechter Lage.

      mfg
      Chaos Designer


    2. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 10/17/2003 17:44:16 GMT
      Hallo, ich habe gelesen, dass das Habitat zur*ckfallen muss. (Und das mit der Bandenh*he spricht auch daf*r)Au*erdem finde ich die Erkl*rung der HoTSupport unlogisch, da ja jedes Team nur Punkte kriegt, wenn beide Teams die Aufgabe erf*llen. Die Teams k*nnen die Aufgabe also gar nicht unabh*ngig voneinander l*sen. Bitte schreibt, wie das jetzt wirklich ist!

      Desiwiniwasitu (Andrea)


    3. Message by: HoT2003 10/20/2003 15:08:37 GMT
      HoT-Support (Teil 2):
      1. es ist richtig, dass das Habitat zur*ckrollt - das ist ja gerade die Herausforderung! K*nnt ihr eine L*sung finden, dass ihr die Punktzahl bekommen k*nnt? Ich gebe zu, es ist nicht einfach - aber es ist l*sbar.
      2. Beide Teams bekommen die Punkte, wenn die Aufgabe gel*st wurde. Es gibt nur Punkte, wenn die Magnete dauerhaft zusammenhalten. Dies gilt auch, wenn nur ein Team die Aufgabe l*st: das andere Team bekommt ebenfalls Punkte, ohne das es etwas daf*r getan hat. Und auch die L*sung der Aufgabe ist durch nur EIN Team m*glich - es gibt bereits Teams, die die Aufgabe so angehen. Sucht nach eigenen L*sungen!


    4. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 10/24/2003 16:29:44 GMT
      Hallo ihr!
      Wir haben uns schon *berlegt, wie wir unseren Teil der Aufgabe l*sen k*nnten: Wir legen "einfach" ein Gewicht so davor, dass das Habitat nicht zur*ckklappt. Unser Gewicht besteht aus einem echten LEGO-Gewicht(ein Klotz, der schwerer ist als normal). Dieses haben wir auf einen gro*en Reifen gebaut. So ist die Reibung so gro*, dass das Gewicht nicht rutscht. Es l*sst sich aber trotzdem vom Roboter relativ einfach verschieben. Wir hoffen dass ihr euren Roboter so programmiert, dass er euren Teil irgendwann nach oben klappt.
      *brigens: Wir haben unseren Wettbewerb in M*nchen. Also w*rden wir uns vorallem *ber Antworten von anderen"M*nchnern" freuen. Aber wir freuen uns aber auch *ber die Ideen von allen anderen Teams!
      Viele Gr**e
      Desiwiniwasitu (Andrea)


    5. Message by: Chaos Designer 1026 10/27/2003 15:47:52 GMT
      Hi desiwiniwasitu,
      wir machen es *hnlich wir haben auch *berlegt es mit einem Gewicht zu fixieren. Es rollt dann nicht mehr zur*ck und die andere Manschaft kann sich Zeit lassen.

      mfg
      Chaos Designer 1026 (Christoph)


    6. Message by: Legoreds 11/14/2003 16:23:17 GMT
      Hi,
      wir machen es auch so.
      Wir schieben einen schweren Winkel aus Legosteinen davor.

      mfg Legoreds


      1. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 11/18/2003 18:49:42 GMT
        Hallo Legoreds,

        danke f*r den Tipp. Wir haben an unser Gewicht jetzt auch noch einen Winkel (nicht spitz, sondern irgendwie mit Kurven) drangebaut und das funktioniert noch um einiges besser als voher. Danke!
        Viele Gr**e
        Andrea (Desiwiniwasitu)


Discussion: D*rfen Modelle verleimt sein??? By: it-cce 10/24/2003 18:39:24 GMT
Hi
wir haben eine kurze Frage:
auf der Homepage der FLL steht unter "Spielfeld" bei Allgemeines:
"...Versucht auch nicht, die Zerbrechlichkeit einiger Modelle als Strategie auszunutzen, da die Modelle bei Turnieren verleimt sein k*nnen."
*5. "Erlaube Materialien" der Regeln besagt aber dass "...Aufkleber, Farbe, Klebestreifen, Leim, *l usw. nicht erlaubt sind."

die Frage ist: was stimmt jetzt??

MfG das it-CCE Team

  1. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 10/24/2003 16:38:59 GMT
    Hallo it-cce,

    also ich habe das so verstanden, dass man den Roboter nicht so progammieren soll, dass er Aufgabenteile zerst*rt, weil die "Wettbewerbsleute" diese verleimt haben k*nnten. Das mit *5 hei*t, dass ihr bei EUREM ROBOTER keinen Leim, ... verwenden sollt. Also blo* beim Roboter keinen Leim, die Aufgaben k*nnen schon verleimt sein. Hab' ich das verst*ndlich erkl*rt?

    Viel Spa* beim T*fteln
    Desiwiniwasitu (Andrea)


    1. Message by: it-cce 10/24/2003 18:39:24 GMT
      HI
      ok das k*nnte stimmen. danke f*r die schnelle antwort :)

      MfG das it-CCE-team


Discussion: Ber*hrung der Spielfeldbegrenzung By: m.a.r.s.1041 10/27/2003 12:35:44 GMT
Hallo FLL Teams,

Wir haben folgende Frage zur Spielfeldbegrenzung:

Darf der Roboter die Spielfeldumrandung ber*hren oder als Orientierungshilfe verwenden (z.B. durch Sensoren)

  1. Message by: Legoreds 10/27/2003 12:35:44 GMT
    hi
    ja wir denken schon sonst w*re sie ja nicht da *gg*
    wir benutzen es schon. Zwar nicht f*r Sensoren aber f*r andere geheime dinge


Discussion: finale By: Legoreds 11/24/2003 17:12:50 GMT
hi leute
wir ham da ma ne frage
mit welchen preisen kommt man ins finale
letztes jahr waren es forschungsauftrag,roboter1&2
und champion

  1. Message by: marstronauten 11/24/2003 17:12:50 GMT
    Hi!!!!!
    Wie viel Punkte erreicht ihr jetzt?
    habt ihr euren Roboter seit eurem ersten Wettbewerb verbessert?

    Die Marstronauten


Discussion: robolions meet legoreds By: Legoreds 10/27/2003 12:37:55 GMT
hi guys

did you build a robot like last year

we*ll see you in cologne

bye

Discussion: abtriebproblem By: Legoreds 11/03/2003 08:10:45 GMT
hi wir sinds wieder
habt ihr auch das problem, dass euer roboter
oft ganz anders f*hrt wie ihr es wollt?
Wir haben keine l*sungen und ihr?

MfG
Legoreds

greetz
to da robolions

  1. Message by: Chaos Designer 1026 10/27/2003 16:01:51 GMT
    hi,
    wir haben nur das Problem, dass unser Roboter einen Links- bzw. Rechtsdrall hat. Sonst klappt alles soweit.

    mfg
    Chaosdesigner 2003


    1. Message by: it-cce 10/28/2003 18:05:01 GMT
      hi
      falls ihr bei eurem Roboter genug Platz habt k*nnt ihr es mal mit 2 Differenzialen versuchen, in der regel l*uft er dann immer gerade.

      MfG das it-CCE team


    2. Message by: marstronauten 10/31/2003 10:50:04 GMT
      K*nnt ihr uns sagen was 2 Differenzialen sind, denn unser Robo f*hrt auch schief!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bitte eine Antwort !!
      Die Marstronauten


    3. Message by: Legoreds 11/03/2003 08:10:45 GMT
      Ich glaube das sind diese alten Teile von Lego Technic.
      in ihm sind 3 Zahnr*der und wenn man die eine Stange dreht dreht die andere Seitenverkehrt. Besser kann ich es nicht beschreiben.Autos haben auch Differenziale


Discussion: fragen *ber fragen By: Legoreds 10/27/2003 16:23:52 GMT
hi leute
1.habt ihr auch dieses problem mit dem abtrieb(euer roboter f*hrt immer anders als ihr es wollt)?
2.macht ihr die modulverbindung?(die zwischen den banden)
3.gibts hier leute die uns kennen vom letzten Jahr?
4.Wieviele punkte holt ihr im durchschnitt?

MfG Legoreds
Greetz to da robolions

  1. Message by: Chaos Designer 1026 10/27/2003 16:06:17 GMT
    Hi,
    zu 1. siehe dem entsprechenden Beitrag
    zu 2. Ja
    zu 3. Wart ihr in Berlin?
    zu 4. Alle


    1. Message by: Legoreds 10/27/2003 16:23:52 GMT
      witzig ihr holt alle punkte da lachen ja die h*hner
      obwohl wir holen auch alle punkte nur halt nicht in 2 einhalb minuten
      ja wir waren in berlin

      greetz to ya


Discussion: Forschungsauftrag By: Legoreds 11/07/2003 16:05:03 GMT
Hi
Wie lange hat man f*r den Forschungsauftrag Zeit?
Manchmal steht 5 Minuten und manchmal 10 Minuten.

Legoreds

Gr**e f*r die Robolions
The girls love you.

  1. Message by: marstronauten 10/30/2003 15:13:42 GMT
    Hi! Wir haben gelesen dass man 5 Minuten Zeit hat


    1. Message by: Legoreds 10/30/2003 16:30:38 GMT
      Ja das steht auch irgendwo aber in den Regeln steht das man 10 Minuten Ziet hat.
      Die Seiten wiedersprechen sich zum Teil.


    2. Message by: marstronauten 10/31/2003 09:02:10 GMT
      In welchen Regeln steht das ? Marstronauten


    3. Message by: Legoreds 10/31/2003 10:10:15 GMT
      hi
      guckt zum beispiel mal bei den preisen unter forschungsauftrag!!!


    4. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 11/02/2003 15:23:38 GMT
      Hi,
      wir haben 10 min Zeit,
      5 zum Aufbauen und
      5 zum Pr*sentieren!
      Bis dann

      Desiwiniwasitu (Annalena)


    5. Message by: Legoreds 11/03/2003 08:11:39 GMT
      Wo her wisst ihr das?


    6. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 11/05/2003 14:57:46 GMT
      Hallo legoreds,
      wir haben eine Mail an FFL (FLL@hands-on-technology.org) geschrieben. Wenn ihr wichtige Fragen habt, k*nnt ihr eine Mail an sie schicken. Die antworten sehr schnell und konkret.
      Weiterhin viel Spa*!
      Desiwiniwastu (moritz, andrea, anni)


    7. Message by: Legoreds 11/05/2003 17:29:03 GMT
      Vielen Dank


    8. Message by: marstronauten 11/07/2003 16:05:03 GMT
      Man hat 5 Minuten zur Vorbereitung und 5 Minuten f*r die eigene Pr*sentation.


Discussion: Einen auf hoch By: Pathfinder3 11/14/2003 16:25:05 GMT
Also man muss den Ball hochhalten. dieses Spiel ist nur zu min. 3 m*glich weil einer im Tor und 2 min. drau*en sein m*ssen. man kann nur ein Tor erziehlen wenn der andere mitspieler einem den Ball hoch zu gespielt hat und man muss ihn volley ins Tor schie*en (K*pfen). Wenn man aber das Tor nicht trifft, und den Ball ins aus Schie*t bzw. K*pft dann muss man selber ins Tor und es geht so weiter. Viel Spa*

  1. Message by: Legoreds 11/14/2003 16:25:05 GMT
    Was hat das mit der Legoleague zu tun?

    Legoreds


Discussion: Herzlichen Gl*ckwunsch By: TeamGGS1053 11/15/2003 20:08:27 GMT


  1. Message by: TeamGGS1053 11/09/2003 21:50:28 GMT
    Wir gratulieren dem Dicovery Team zum gewonnenen Wettbewerb in Bocholt. Viel Gl*ck in K*ln

    Allen anderen: Es hat viel Spa* gemacht War ein Klasse Tag und Wettbewerb

    GGS Team aus Lingen


    1. Message by: Discovery 1005 11/15/2003 20:08:27 GMT
      Discoveryteam Herten
      Danke f*r den Gl*ckwunsch. Wir waren zum ersten Mal dabei und haben damit *berhaupt nicht gerechnet. Es war extrem spannend , und einfach nur cool. Wir ver*ndern auch noch einiges f*r K*ln. Dr*ckt uns die Daumen. Danke


Discussion: an alle "frankfurter" By: Legoreds 12/03/2003 00:07:15 GMT
hi ihr viel gl*ck f*r morgen
wir werden sehen wer das beste team ist

mfg legoreds
bis morgen

  1. Message by: Legoreds 11/18/2003 21:06:03 GMT
    ja, morgen werden wir weiter sehen! Ma gucken wie es wird.. Bis dann >>caro


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/18/2003 22:52:23 GMT
      GREETINGS FROM CHICAGO,IL.

      LEGO ROCKS


    2. Message by: TechSavvy741 12/03/2003 00:07:15 GMT
      duo me as duo me kuo


Discussion: Habitat in K*ln By: desiwiniwasitu 11/25/2003 14:56:02 GMT
Hallo!

Herzlichen Gl*ckwunsch an alle, die auch nach K*ln fahren!
Wir wollten mal wissen, ob ihr das Habitat macht. Wir machen es, indem wir ein Gewicht davorlegen und dadurch rutscht das Habitat nicht mehr zur*ck. Wir f*nden es sehr sch*n, wenn wir das irgendwie mit euch koordinieren k*nnten, weil das Habitat sehr viele Punkte bringt.
Viele Gr**e
von Desiwiniwasitu

  1. Message by: Legoreds 11/19/2003 21:18:39 GMT
    Wir sind auch in K*ln... sind total happy und h*tten eigentlich nicht damit gerechnet! Bis dann....

    >> Caro


    1. Message by: Legoreds 11/20/2003 19:26:31 GMT
      Wir mchen es wen wir wissen das es genug Teams machen.
      Also schreibt!!!!!!!


      1. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 11/21/2003 19:01:48 GMT
        Hallo Legoreds,

        wir haben einfach ein extra Programm geschrieben, bei dem der Robo die Habitation macht. Wir fragen vor dem Match das andere Team, ob sie es auch machen. Wenn sie es nicht machen, lassen wir das Programm einfach gar nicht laufen. So k*nnt ihr es doch auch machen, oder?

        Viele Gr**e
        Andrea (von Desiwiniwasitu)


    2. Message by: Legoreds 11/22/2003 11:46:41 GMT
      Das haben wir ach gedacht aber wir wissen nicht ob wir gen*gend Zeit zum Programmieren haben.


    3. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 11/22/2003 22:22:04 GMT
      Hallo Legoreds,
      Programiert doch dieses Programm schon jetzt bei euch zu Hause und fragt dann vor dem Wettbewerb, wer diese Aufgabe macht und ladet dann von eurem Laptop oder Pc, was ihr davon halt mit nach K*ln nehmt, die jeweilige L*sung auf den RCX vom Robobter.

      Wenn ihr diese Erkl*rung nicht verstanden habt, fragt einfach noch einmal, dann versuche/n ich/wir es besser zu erkl*ren.

      Bis dann
      Annalena von Desiwiniwasitu


    4. Message by: Legoreds 11/23/2003 12:00:08 GMT
      hi desiwiniwasitu
      hi annalena

      wir ham die aufgabe auch einprogrammiert
      wir machen das wie ihr
      wir wussten nur nicht ob wir jetzt gen*gend zeit ham
      denn wir ham getriebeprobleme

      bye
      nikoLAUS & jonas (legoreds)


    5. Message by: Legoreds 11/23/2003 12:00:32 GMT
      hi desiwiniwasitu
      hi annalena

      wir ham die aufgabe auch einprogrammiert
      wir machen das wie ihr
      wir wussten nur nicht ob wir jetzt gen*gend zeit ham
      denn wir ham getriebeprobleme

      bye
      niko & jonas DER STINKENDE
      (legoreds)


    6. Message by: Legoreds 11/23/2003 18:24:00 GMT
      Es tut uns leid aber wir haben bei unserem Treffen am 23,11,03 beschlossen den Habitant nicht zu machen. Das Programm daf*r ist n*hmlich so unsicher, dass es uns nur aufh*lt. Wenn wir w*hrend des Wettbewerbs merken das es Vorteile bringt werden wir es neu einstellen und benutzen.

      Legoreds
      (Jonas Zinn)


    7. Message by: marstronauten 11/24/2003 15:46:43 GMT
      Erstmal herzlichen Gl*ckwunsch an alle die auch nach K*ln gekommen sind!
      Wir haben beschlossen, dass wir das Habitant als letzte Aufgabe vor dem Krater zu 99% machen. Unser Roboter schiebt ein Gewicht davor. Bitte schreibt ob und wie ihr es macht.

      Danke die Marstronauten!


    8. Message by: desiwiniwasitu 11/24/2003 17:38:02 GMT
      Hallo,
      @mastronauten:Wir machen es genauso mit einem Winkel-Gewicht. Aber wir machen es wenn es genug andere machen gleich am Anfang.

      @legoreds: Der Habitant bringt aber viele Punkte. Und wenn ein fehler passiert ist halt ein Stein f*r einmal Roboteranfassen weg.*berlegts euch des doch nochmal.

      Bis dann
      Annalena von Desiwiniwasitu


    9. Message by: Legoreds 11/24/2003 21:26:18 GMT
      wir wissen das noch net ob wir es machen vielleicht schon schaun ma ma


    10. Message by: Legoreds 11/25/2003 14:56:02 GMT
      Wir haben uns jetzt *berlegt das wir die Aufgabe als letztes (vor dem Krater ) machen. Wir hoffen einfach das ein Team schon etwas davorgelegt hat, denn wir fahren einfach nur davor. So funktioniert es am besten

      Legoreds


Discussion: Wir waren flei*ig?! By: TeamGGS1053 11/24/2003 22:23:04 GMT
Hallo Teams

Wir waren flei*ig - in anderer Hinsicht. Wir haben ein Forum gebastelt f*r den deutschsprachigen Raum. W*re toll, wenn sich die Teams oder Schulen auch au*erhalb des Wettbewerbes beteiligen k*nnten. Man k*nnte sich ja auch vor einem Wettbewerb treffen und *ben oder kleinere Wettbewerbe veranstalten.
http://www.mindstormsforum.de

Euer GGS Team aus Lingen

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/24/2003 22:21:50 GMT
    We are the team from America!We hope you win!

    Blaine bat heads
    p.s we have te same lego face!!!


Discussion: Frage an HoT-Support wegen Bundesfinale in K*ln By: Top Five and Girls 11/25/2003 21:24:17 GMT
Hallo,
wir von Top Five and Girls haben eine Frage, weil wir von verschiedenen Seiten geh*rt haben, dass es nicht sicher ist, dass f*r die Forschungsaufgabe ein Beamer vorhanden ist.
Stimmt das? Ist ein Beamer vorhanden?
Danke
Top Five and Girls

Discussion: Legostarke Gr**e an Desiwiniwasitu By: Discovery 1005 11/29/2003 21:29:55 GMT
Hallo an das Team Desiwiniwasitu,
Wir, d.h. das Discovery team, haben uns unheimlich gefreut, dass ihr den Preis f*r die beste Teamarbeit bekommen habt. Wir finden euch wirklich super, haben alle aus dem Team gesagt. Noch einmal auch herzlichen Dank , dass ihr uns die Schere vor dem Pr*sentationsraum geliehen habt, sonst h*tten wir unsere Papiere *berhaupt nicht so gut aufh*ngen k*nnen. Hoffentlich sehen wir uns beim n*chsten Wettkampf wieder. Bis dann Discovery herten

Discussion: HI By: TechSavvy741 12/17/2003 02:45:06 GMT
Hi! We are team TechSavvy741! Hi! What is a RCX?

  1. Message by: 12/02/2003 23:59:09 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: 12/03/2003 00:01:10 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: 12/03/2003 00:03:22 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: Top Five and Girls 12/12/2003 15:54:15 GMT
      nothing to eat.*g*


    4. Message by: TechSavvy741 12/17/2003 02:45:06 GMT
      This Forum was started by an incorrigible



Folder: FEEDBACK 02/17/2004 01:27:30 GMT
If you have any comments or suggestions for FIRST LEGO League, please use this folder


Folder: Mat Shipment problems 11/24/2003 19:38:28 GMT
for comments related to problems with the mats

Discussion: defects in mat By: Club BOB 10/01/2003 17:54:51 GMT
There seems to be more flaws in the mats for this year than prior years. Many teams have told me of the dings and bends in their mats.

it also seems a bit thinner and more fragile than the CitySights Mat.

  1. Message by: Legoshindiggies2872 10/01/2003 17:54:51 GMT
    I got a second mat sent from pitsco and the second one was worse than the first. So don't bother trying to get a new one.


Discussion: shipment box needs improvement By: Club BOB 11/24/2003 19:38:28 GMT
The box that the mat is shipped in has caused problems for some teams. Because of it's flimsy nature, the mat is more prone to damage during shipment.

One team had a big bend in their mat because the postman had folded the box in half for delivery to them.

For next season Pitsco should lose the box and use a sturdy tube. For their $50, teams should get a better box so the product doesn't arrive damaged before the teams have even had a chance to use it. Additionally if the teams have a good tube for storage, then the mat will last longer when not in use.

Some teams still use the mats after the FLL season has ended to help with training new team members about programming and missions or for demos to other groups.

  1. Message by: L.G.M.s1276 11/24/2003 19:38:28 GMT
    Our mat arrived alright as far as dings and bends go. Our damage was from the packing itself. They folded the mat and then shoved all the pillow packing in on one side of the box. When we unrolled it there were big creases where the top surface had already separated from the red color making it very difficult to use the light sensor in those areas. I agree a tube would help a lot.



Folder: tournament feedback 02/15/2004 01:35:20 GMT
general comments and suggestions for tournament improvements

Discussion: Presentation times By: Club BOB 02/01/2004 09:23:18 GMT
feedback about prsentations for Research and Technical

  1. Message by: Club BOB 02/01/2004 09:23:18 GMT
    For both Research and Technical Presentations there should be uniform presentation times.

    At the event where I helped judge research there were far too many teams unclear about how much time they had. If some teams do 10 minute presentations while others keep it under 5 minutes, then it's not uniform and it makes it difficult to judge. FLL should just go ahead and put in a 5 minute rule right in the coach's handbook that goes out with each challenge set every year so there's no question. I'd also like to see a strong suggestion that teams not rely so much upon powerpoint presentations. Technology is great but it doesn't promote creativity to have kids reading from powerpoint slides. Powerpoint should be used as background to suppliment not as the main focus of a presentation

    It would also be helpful if there was a clear description of what was expected for a technical presentation. Some teams were unfamilar with the Technical, some assumed it was the same as the research presentation.


Discussion: Results from Tournaments By: alienbusters2865 02/15/2004 01:35:20 GMT
Where can we go to get feedback about the tournaments? I have emailed our Alabama tournament director twice to find out our scores and got no answer. I would like to know some statistics from our Alabama tournament along with some National statistics. How many teams were there competing this year in our Nation? I'd also like to know what our scores were from the tournament we participated in. I think FLL should require tournament directors to send in some scores and statistics so we can get an overall picture of what's going on in the whole U.S.


Folder: Web site comments 11/02/2003 20:04:24 GMT


Discussion: 2003 bugs/problems By: Tekno Devils40 11/02/2003 20:04:24 GMT
Use this discussion to report errors

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/15/2003 23:25:57 GMT
    Whenever I click of the "search teampages" icon, I get
    prompted for my login. I am unable to access this
    feature. I was able to for the first few days!

    PS: Is there a better way to get error reports to you?

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: craterkids 09/16/2003 10:04:10 GMT
      I'm having problems posting attachments. All of my attachments show up as type 'webx' and cannot be opened. Try the attached zip file.


    2. Message by: pennichuck864 09/18/2003 12:51:50 GMT
      I can't login to the forums when using the mozilla browser. When I try to login I receive a blank screen. I can login using a netscape browser. This was a problem last year as well.


    3. Message by: GearHeads1198 09/19/2003 19:38:33 GMT
      Maybe you should try using Internet Explorer


    4. Message by: pennichuck864 09/29/2003 16:37:15 GMT
      Thanks for the tip GearHeads1198. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, depending on your viewpoint) Internet Explorer doesn't run on my computer/OS.


    5. Message by: Club BOB 10/01/2003 02:59:40 GMT
      It's not set up to handle Mozilla due the scripting for the login page. I'm also forced to use IE to access the forums. Same thing each year.

      What I don't like is that means I can only get into the forums from my Windows system and can't use it from my Linux system. Part of why I use Mozilla is because it runs on Windows, Linux and Mac systems. It's also not prone to the viruses that IE/Outlook users have to face.

      Linux is a good alternative to Windows, especially if you have some older PCs. But for accessing the forums you will need to use IE on a Windows system and can't access the forums on Linux.

      Many schools are now using Linux because it's free and it saves them money over site licenses from MS. Open Source applications such as Mozilla and OpenOffice are good way for schools to save on their computer software costs.

      It's too late for this year, but I hope for next year the webmasters do allow Mozilla users to use the FLL forums and not force us to use IE to read the messages.

      thanks,

      Susan
      Club BOB


      1. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/02/2003 20:04:24 GMT
        Maybe next year I'd suggest you use a PHP/MySQL based forum system for the forum, maybe Invision Power Board? vBulltion? phpBB? Every browser supports PHP,

        And about IE and linux, People have sucessfully been
        able to use IE on Linux using the Wine emulation system, but you'd want to use IE 5 for this.

        The forum works on the Opera web browser and it comes in a verison for linux as well!.


    6. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/15/2003 21:51:00 GMT
      Directory structure:
      1) It would be nice to put all the state folders under one
      called "Individual States".
      2) Make the top level directory read only to prevent novice
      users from starting threads
      3) Add a folder called "Misc" for messages that do not fall
      into any other catagories.

      Also, It might be time for a bot of clean up in the root
      directory!

      -Skye


Discussion: Would be nice to have multiple logins for a single team. By: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/17/2003 18:41:14 GMT


  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/16/2003 05:42:25 GMT
    It would be very helpful to have multiple logins for
    a single team. The reason for this is that the "New"
    flags are practically essential in reading of the
    discussions in order to find the new messages amongst
    all of the old ones. However, these "flags" are
    cleared the first time that a posting is viewed by
    a reader. With there being up to 10 students on a
    team, and multiple coaches and/or mentors, it becomes
    difficult for multiple individuals on a team to each
    read the discussion forums, since the "new" flags are
    cleared when the first of the team members views the
    messages.

    Is there a way to have multiple individual logins within
    a single team?

    --Ken Streeter
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: martian argonauts 09/17/2003 17:56:56 GMT
      you can, just do it exactly like how you set up the first one, only w/ a diferent "screen name" and password.


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem 63 09/17/2003 18:41:14 GMT
        Awesome! Thanks for the hint! This will be a big help
        to the coaches of our team!

        --Ken Streeter
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Problems with Forum Login - Now what By: P.O.P Panthers(4thgrade) #2863 10/02/2003 03:19:14 GMT
I have more than 1 team. 2 of the other teams registered, and just SWEAR they did it all right, but we cannot log into the forum. They show up as teams registered for the FORUM under our state - so I can verify what they typed in. They also swear that they have copied down the password correctly. What do I do now? Is my only option to double register them for the forum? It looks like several teams have had to do this. Either that or multiple people logged the team in. Are there any other options?
Thanks.

  1. Message by: LEGO League - Systemadministrator 09/30/2003 22:15:09 GMT
    I can easily understand your argument for giving each team member their own account.

    However, this year we expect to have more than 40.000 children involved in FIRST LEGO League globally and unfortunately we do not even come close to that amount of available accounts in the system.

    In order to avoid saying yes to some and no to others, we kindly ask you only to create one account.


    1. Message by: P.O.P Panthers(4thgrade) #2863 10/02/2003 03:19:14 GMT
      No, you missunderstand. I have 1 team at the school I teach at - it is a part of the curriculum. I have 1 team after school at my own children's school. We registered the first team, no problem, on the forum. The SECOND team was registered, and now we cannot get on the forum. I watched them do it & we copied everything down. Either there is a problem with the password (And I WATCHED them type it in) or a problem in the way the name was entered. Is there any way to find out what has gone wrong or do we just register them for the forum again, thus creating two entries?


Discussion: Kits By: CCC125 10/23/2003 10:44:08 GMT
We have recieved our standard kit (we think) but it doesn't seem to have any thing that is useful such as the sensors and motors or anything that would help us make a robot that moves or does anything. we dont even have the controller for the robot or the top. Is this right?

  1. Message by: Club BOB 10/23/2003 08:11:41 GMT
    Did you just get the challenge set or did you also order a robot set as well?

    If you only ordered the challenge set, that would just have what goes on top of your playing field. You would have received a mat and pieces that you put together to make a Mars surface and there should also be a CD with the instructions for building the playing field (pdf files on the CD).

    If you only ordered the challenge set but not the robot set, you would need to either already have either LEGO Mindstorms or Robolab kits to build your robots from.

    If you don't have either LEGO Mindstorms or Robolab, then my suggestion would be to order the robot set. Note that the robot set does not include a remote control but you are not allowed to use those during FLL. (if you want a remote control for off-season, those can be purchased as either part of the Ultimate Assessory Kit or directly through Pitsco.)

    http://www.usfirst.org/jrobtcs/2003_pricing.htm

    <<" FLL Robot Set: $260 (recommended for new teams)
    The Robot Set includes everything you need to build and program a robot to participate in FLL. The set includes two alternative software versions: Robotics Invention System 2.0 and Robolab 2.5, providing you with an opportunity to determine what software version works best for your team. This set also includes: 1 RCX microcomputer, 1 IR Tower (choice of serial or USB), 3 Gear Motors, 2 Light Sensors, 2 Touch Sensors, 1 Rotation Sensor, 1 LEGO Lamp, over 700 LEGO elements, 1 Constructopedia - with building instructions for sample robots and one Getting Started Guide.

    FLL Challenge Set: $50 (teams have the option to share sets if they so choose) Provided to teams in part by donations from 3M and the LEGO Company
    The Challenge set contains everything your team needs to build and set up an exact copy of the 2003 FLL Challenge Playing Field. This set includes an exclusive collection of several hundred LEGO elements, a 4x8 foot Playing Field roll-out mat produced by 3M, a sheet of 3M Dual Lock fastener and a CD containing building instructions. **Your playing field needs to be set up on a flat surface with borders around it. For information on how to set up borders on a floor, or how to build a standard FLL table, please visit the FLL website.

    The following OPTIONAL items are offered to FLL teams as EXTRA or REPLACEMENT parts:

    Light Sensor: $14.99, plus shipping and handling
    Rotation Sensor: $16.99, plus shipping and handling
    Gear Motor: $15.99, plus shipping and handling">>


    1. Message by: CCC125 10/23/2003 10:44:08 GMT
      Oh right thanks a lot. That helps a lot as we were kind of confused. We thought we were stuck with just these bits and that there could have been soemthing missing. How long would the robot set take to get to england? as our actual regional thing is in only 4 weeks!


Discussion: Starting in the base By: planetaryrats1125 10/28/2003 03:47:39 GMT
Can you start your robot on the Tetrahedron Base and be outside the baselines on the mat or do you have to be inside the baselines on the mat while you're on the Tetrahedron Base?

  1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 10/28/2003 03:47:12 GMT
    From Scott Evans' Q&A ( http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11360 ),

    [10-1-03] Q: Is the entire surface of the tetrahedron base considered to be 'the base' or just the portion behind the angled 'base line' as drawn on the mat?

    A: Rule 23 says that missions superceded rules when they disagree, and the mission in question says "For this mission, starting position is with the robot touching only the rectangular platform." so for that start, the angled Base lines on the mat don't matter.

    - Mark Beitz, coach


Discussion: hot weather By: 2smart4u1043 12/15/2003 23:45:35 GMT
hey wazzzzzzzzzup nothing happening here all were doing is doing research. do you know about the
mav gotta go

Discussion: FLL division 2 By: Club BOB 02/17/2004 01:27:30 GMT
I'd still like to see two divisions of FLL, one for rookie/younger teams of 9-12 year olds and the other older division for 12-17 year olds.

Developmentally, a 9 year old is not going to write the same programs as a 14 year old. A team of 9 year olds is totally different than a team of 14 year olds, everything from teamwork to maturity to just understanding conceptionally what to do.

About the time that a kid understands the programming, they are too old for FLL because of the age 14 cut off.

I'd like to see a high school division of FLL they could use the same challange but other languages such as NQC or Java would be allowed for programming. Their research projects could be more complex than what a 9 year old could do.

While some former FLL kids do go onto FIRST, that's a totally different type of competion than programming an RCX.

  1. Message by: alienbusters2865 02/15/2004 01:40:40 GMT
    I totally agree with your thought. For 2 years in a row I have taken 5th graders and came in 2nd place behind a Middle School group. This middle school team had been together for 3 years in a row. At our level kids are just beginning. I will never have a winning team because they are all rookies when I get them. I think we should have more than 2 levels. One level for 4th/5th grade, one for 6th/7th grade and one for 8th/9th grade. This would make the competition more fair and realistic. I also agree with you that this program should continue through high school.

    Sylvia Dean/Alabama Coach


    1. Message by: GanonsRoboDevils1463 02/17/2004 01:27:30 GMT
      While I like the concept, for some of us it would be difficult to sort out. My kids last year (our first) ranged from 7 to 14. This year from 10-14. Maybe it should depend on the number of years of collective experience the team has.

      If you get all new kids, you are really still a rookie team. But, if all the team members are in their third year of the program, even though they formed a new team, that should be treated as a veteran team.

      I would definitely support continuing this to high school level. This is totally different from what is offered through First, and, due to the cost factor, it could be open to far more kids. Maybe a separate division with the same basic problem but a tougher challenge than the younger kids get? An extra mission or two, perhaps.

      Darrell
      Coach, Ganon's RoboDevils



Folder: FRANCE - [for French members] 01/08/2004 18:43:28 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns France in this folder.


Folder: bonne chance! 10/10/2003 23:13:31 GMT
bonjour,
bientot le concours le college tezenas vous souhait bonne chance et que le meilleur gagne

RAID


Folder: jujubeans 10/26/2003 21:54:27 GMT
hello, sheshuise miuen darieraier!

Discussion: reception matos By: tezenas 10/17/2003 12:56:29 GMT
qui a re*u le matos?
julien

  1. Message by: tezenas 09/19/2003 10:54:00 GMT
    Quel syst*me utiliser vous?

    version du ris + usb?
    version de robolab?
    version de ris

    merci

    julien


    1. Message by: clubstorm 09/20/2003 11:55:02 GMT
      Salut,
      nous avons commenc* avec la version RIS 2.0 + usb.
      Nous allons commander le kit compet. avec Robolab, bien que ce soit la version 1.5 alors qu'ailleurs ils ont d*j* la version 2.5...


      1. Message by: tezenas 09/20/2003 12:07:19 GMT
        salut,

        manifestement GROS soucis pour avoir la version 2.52 qui en version US (mais pas de soucis car ic*nes)
        Jeulin souhaite commercialiser que des versions fran*aise pour des probl*me de SAV!

        Si vous voulez la version 2.52 merci de m'envoyer un mail pour que je puisse faire remonter l'infos * jeulin et Lego.

        Il existe un pacth pour win XP pour le RIS * t*l*charger sur le site de lego mindstorm

        julien.launay@laposte.net

        julien


        1. Message by: clubstorm42 09/30/2003 11:32:44 GMT
          Nous sommes int*ress*s par la version 2.5 de ROBOLAB.
          Que cette version soit en anglais n'est pas un probl*me.
          Qu'elle utilise le port USB est un avantage ind*niable.

          A bient*t.


    2. Message by: BUFFON 1 09/22/2003 22:05:57 GMT
      Merci de nous dire si vous avez re*u le mat*riel.
      Pour ROBOLAB 2.5 peut on t*l*charger des mises * jour ?
      Bon courage * tous.
      R.L.


    3. Message by: BUFFON 1 09/24/2003 11:23:08 GMT
      Bonjour * tous !
      Nous souhaiterions savoir qui a re*u le tapis et les obstacles.
      Merci

      Have fun


    4. Message by: BUFFON 1 09/27/2003 09:46:30 GMT
      Message pour Julien de Tezenas
      Nous avons re*u le mat*riel vendredi


    5. Message by: clubstorm42 09/27/2003 10:55:31 GMT
      Nous n'avons rien re*u encore !


      1. Message by: clubstorm42 09/30/2003 11:37:05 GMT
        Cause nous n'*tions pas encore client Jeulin...
        Y parait que c'est r*solu...
        Que nous devrions bient*t le recevoir...
        D*j* que 2 mois *a fait court pour pr*parer cette *preuve, alors 1 mois et demi...
        L'important c'est de participer...
        Et d'y croire...


    6. Message by: tezenas 09/30/2003 12:50:59 GMT
      salut,

      ceux qui sont interess*s par la version 2.5 version US avec prise en charge USB m'envoi un mail de demande *:
      julien.launay@ac-lyon.fr

      merci

      julien


    7. Message by: clubstorm42 10/03/2003 15:22:59 GMT
      Nous avons re*u aujourd'hui Vendredi 3 le mat*riel !
      Il *tait temps !
      A bient*t sur le forum pour d'autres questions/r*ponses !


    8. Message by: GYRO2817 10/13/2003 19:41:53 GMT
      salut! Notre equipe est de Georgetown Ontario, en Canada.


      1. Message by: clubstorm42 10/17/2003 12:56:29 GMT
        Bonjour,
        Quelles sont vos dates de comp*titions ?
        Etes vous pr*t ?


Discussion: D*tails des *preuves By: clubstorm42 01/08/2004 18:43:28 GMT
Avons nous bien compris la m*me chose concernant le d*roulement des *preuves ?
Voici une suite de questions et r*ponses !

  1. Message by: clubstorm42 09/27/2003 10:59:06 GMT
    Sortie de la base T*tra*dre :

    Apr*s cette *preuve, la rampe restera-t-elle toujours baiss* ?


    1. Message by: clubstorm42 09/27/2003 11:00:42 GMT
      Lancer de la balise :
      La balise ronde doit-elle *tre install*e par le robot, ou bien manuellement ? Dans ce cas le robot ne d*clenche que la catapulte.

      Doit-il revenir * la base ?


      1. Message by: tezenas 10/13/2003 14:25:48 GMT
        A mon avis, il faut que tu am*nes aussi la balle et que tu d*clenches. Donc 2 choses. Voir les points * gagner.

        julien


    2. Message by: clubstorm42 09/27/2003 11:01:26 GMT
      Nettoyer le panneau solaire :
      Doit il revenir * la base ?


      1. Message by: tezenas 10/13/2003 14:26:23 GMT
        Pour toutes les missions, le robot n'est pas oblig* de revenir * la base.

        julien


        1. Message by: clubstorm42 12/10/2003 18:57:28 GMT
          Apparemment ce n'*tait pas l'avis des arbitres de pistes * CACHAN puisque nous avons eu des p*nalit*s en ramenant manuellement le robot * la base.

          On se demande bien si on a lu le m*me r*glement ?


    3. Message by: clubstorm42 09/27/2003 11:08:31 GMT
      Relier les modules d'habitations de 180* et de 90*:
      les modules d'habitations sont en contre bas de la plate-forme.
      le robot doit il aller les chercher ?
      ou peut on les accrocher au robot pour qu'il aille les deposer .
      Doit il revenir * la base ?


      1. Message by: tezenas 10/13/2003 14:27:20 GMT
        Il faut apporter les modules et les accrocher. A toi de g*rer si tu fait plusieur allers-retours.

        julien


    4. Message by: clubstorm42 09/27/2003 11:11:14 GMT
      poser les rochers dans la zone de lancement :
      qui place les rochers?
      comment sont ils dispos*s?


    5. Message by: tezenas 10/03/2003 14:09:07 GMT
      qui a compris d'o* doit partir le robot pour chaque mission?

      merci

      julien


      1. Message by: tezenas 10/13/2003 14:27:58 GMT
        Le robot doit partir de l'air de d*part.


    6. Message by: tezenas 10/10/2003 14:10:54 GMT
      bonjour je suis un eleve de tezenas et j ai pas trop compris la missions E
      pouvez vous m expliquer
      merci


      1. Message by: DaxAttack21 10/16/2003 09:29:09 GMT
        IL FAUT FAIRE CETTE MISSION A DEUX ! Les 2 *quipes doivent ex*cuter la mission en m*me temps pour refermer le module.
        Il suffit de pousser la partie avec la roue sur la piste.


    7. Message by: tezenas 10/10/2003 14:17:02 GMT
      bonjour,dans la mission G pouvons-nous prendre les 3 blocs de glace en m*me temps et les ramener * la base.


      1. Message by: tezenas 10/13/2003 14:44:39 GMT
        Pour les blocs, peut importe, le but est d'en ramener le plus possible * la base. M*me avec plusieurs aller-retours.


    8. Message by: tezenas 10/10/2003 14:18:53 GMT
      bonjour je voudrais savoir pour la mission G si on peut partir de la base ou d'une autre mission.


    9. Message by: tezenas 10/10/2003 14:18:58 GMT
      bonjour,dans la mission G pouvons-nous prendre les 3 blocs de glace en m*me temps et les ramener * la base.


    10. Message by: tezenas 10/13/2003 14:24:48 GMT
      Oui la rampe reste ouverte


    11. Message by: DaxAttack21 10/15/2003 19:12:31 GMT
      oui c'est permis, le probl*me est de les ramener les 3 d'un coup !


    12. Message by: clubstorm42 10/17/2003 12:54:01 GMT
      Si DaxAttack21 n'*tait pas venu, j'ai bien failli croire qu'il n'y avait que Saint Etienne qui utilisait le Forum !!!

      ;-)
      C'est vrai que c*t* Internet nous ne sommes pas mauvais :
      Club Storm avec
      http://rcxdroide.ouvaton.org/
      et
      Tezenas avec
      http://robotechno.free.fr/

      C'est vrai aussi que nous avons l'Istase * Saint Etienne qui * gagn* plusieurs fois la coupe de robotique E=M6:
      http://www.univ-st-etienne.fr/istase/FRA/Presentation.html

      Allez, reveillez vous les autres !!!


    13. Message by: clubstorm42 11/21/2003 14:59:19 GMT
      Je me sens un peu seul sur ce forum.
      L'usage du web en France n'est pas encore acquise...

      Nous sommes un peu en avance sur l'usage d'Internet avec notre superbe site http://www.rcx-storm.org/

      A bient*t sur notre site, pour plus d'infos...


    14. Message by: 01/08/2004 18:43:28 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: Je parle francais By: MemorialMustangs1642 11/10/2003 23:45:11 GMT
Bonjour mon homes, je parle francaise.

  1. Message by: tezenas 10/03/2003 16:50:48 GMT
    moi aussi je parle francais


    1. Message by: Jr Comets II 10/06/2003 21:55:40 GMT
      Non je parle' francais


    2. Message by: metal martians 2537 10/21/2003 01:36:33 GMT
      Bonjour! We are the Metal Martains from Canada! Bonne chance to you! we are trying our best to speak francais!


    3. Message by: 11/10/2003 23:45:11 GMT
      Deleted



Folder: HOLLAND - [for Dutch members] 11/24/2003 21:03:51 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Holland in this folder.


Folder: Algemene vragen 11/21/2003 22:04:39 GMT
Als landelijk co*rdinator zal ik de vragen die in deze folder gezet worden zo snel mogelijk beantwoorden.

Wiebe Wagemans


Folder: onderzoek 10/30/2003 17:07:53 GMT
volgens ons is er nog steeds geen vertaling van de onderzoeksopdrachten, klopt dat?
scz scz 34

Discussion: moters By: TrinoomAresteam22 11/05/2003 22:50:52 GMT
waneer komen de robotpaketen binnen???????????????????..
we wachten al maanden????????????????????????????????:-(
KANT NIE WAH SNELLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  1. Message by: ECT Elza makers 09/25/2003 08:18:41 GMT
    In het lego pakket voor de Marsopstelling, mis ik een groene staaf, zitten die ook in de robotpakketten of moet ik die zelf ergens organiseren?


    1. Message by: 09/30/2003 09:30:10 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: SCZ SCZ34 11/05/2003 22:49:31 GMT
      Nou, die hoort in het bouwpakket te zitten.
      Anders moet je contact onemen met firstlego.

      succes

      het scz team


      1. Message by: FLL NL coordinator 11/05/2003 22:50:52 GMT
        Dit bericht is nog van september, toen was er nog niets binnen.


Discussion: Mindstorm extensie en Robolab By: FLL NL coordinator 11/21/2003 22:04:39 GMT
Wegens een probleem bij het versturen van de Mindstorm extensie- en Robolabpakketen zullen deze pas later arriveren. Wij doen ons best om deze zo snel mogelijk bij de teams te krijgen. Onze excuses voor de vertraging

  1. Message by: ECT Elza makers 09/30/2003 13:41:19 GMT
    Wij hebben de spullen ontvangen, maar er zat geen software bij (misschien is dit ook niet nodig?)


    1. Message by: Hanevoet-1 11/04/2003 11:47:36 GMT
      Eindelijk hebben we het lego robotpakket op vrijdag 31 oktober binnen gekregen. We gaan erg hard werken om er toch nog iets van te maken. Helaas missen we nog enkele onderdelen van de Marsmodellen kunnen die nagestuurd worden en bij wie moet ik dan zijn?


      1. Message by: SCZ SCZ34 11/05/2003 22:45:53 GMT
        Dat was ook bij ons het geval( dat we onderdele missen).
        waarschijnlijk zijn ze onder weg want bij ons zaten ze nog in denemarken.
        neem contact op met firstlego.
        Veel succes

        het scz team


    2. Message by: Hanevoet-1 11/04/2003 11:51:09 GMT
      Zaterdag 22 november is de grote dag. Hoe laat moeten we in Delft zijn en hoe laat zijn we klaar?


      1. Message by: SCZ SCZ34 11/05/2003 22:42:19 GMT
        Dat word nog bekent gemaakt


    3. Message by: SCZ SCZ34 11/05/2003 22:41:31 GMT
      Er hoort softwere in te zitten voor het programmeerwerk.
      Als je het nu nog niet hebt dan moet je echt contact opnemen met firstlego want het is een heel karwei dat programmeren.

      groetjes,
      scz


    4. Message by: Hanevoet-1 11/12/2003 09:43:32 GMT
      Is er nu al iets bekend over de wedstrijddag???????


      1. Message by: SCZ SCZ34 11/21/2003 21:33:57 GMT
        Ja.
        Het vind morgen(22 november) plaats in Delft(kwee niet waar) om half 12.


    5. Message by: FLL NL coordinator 11/21/2003 22:04:39 GMT
      Zie: http://physsql.phys.tue.nl/stp/routebeschrijving.asp



Folder: Interessante links 10/08/2003 15:16:11 GMT
Als je interessante links met betrekking tot de challenge wilt delen, plaats ze dan in deze folder.

Discussion: Handige Amerikaanse FLL pagina By: FLL NL coordinator 10/08/2003 15:16:27 GMT
Op deze onoffici*le pagina kun je veel handige tips en antwoorden vinden:
http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/


Folder: Mededelingen van de organisatie 11/21/2003 10:01:41 GMT
Hier zal ik namens de Nederlandse organisatie mijn algemene mededelingen plaatsen.

Discussion: Prijzen tijdens finale By: FLL NL coordinator 10/23/2003 17:14:42 GMT
De prijzen die tijdens de finale uitgereikt gaan worden zijn:

- Hoofdprijs
- Beste Robotontwerp
- Beste Robotprestatie
- Beste Robotprestatie - 2e plaats
- Beste Onderzoekspresentatie
- Beste Teamwork
- Beste Teamgeest

Discussion: Routebeschrijving finale By: FLL NL coordinator 11/21/2003 10:01:41 GMT
Zoals de meeste teams al weten zal de finale morgen plaats vinden op het Zuidpolder complex van TNO. Het adres hiervan is Schoemakerstraat 97 in Delft. Een routebeschrijving is te vinden op de pagina http://www.tno.nl/locaties/delft_zuidpolder_ck.html. Op het terrein wordt de finale van de FLL gehouden in het Pulsfysicalab.

Vanaf 11.30 zijn de teams welkom. De wedstrijden starten om 12.30 en om 17.00 is de prijsuitreiking afgelopen.


Folder: Missie doelen 11/02/2003 14:05:29 GMT
Hier discussie en vragen over de missies.

Discussion: misschien wat vreemde vragen over een aantal missies By: vikingteam33 11/02/2003 14:05:29 GMT
ik had nog wat speciale, en misschien wat vreemde, vragen over de missies en een paar los van de missies.

missie b:
st*l dat nadat de bal gelanceerd is, hij door wat dan ook wordt tegengehouden en hij valt terug in het lanceerkanon...
ja zeer uitzonderlijk, maar is de bal dan gelanceerd en krijg je er de volle punten voor?

missie c:
je krijgt een gedeelte van de punten bij gedeeltelijke verwijdering van het stof. geld het verwijderen van 1 blokje stof ook als gedeeltelijke verwijdering?

missie e:
1a. heeft het andere team (dus) een gespiegelde kaart?
1b. en waarom hebben wij die niet? hoe is die verdeling gedaan?
2. mag je iets achter laten in het veld? teld dat dan dus niet mee voor "de hele robot" die aan het einde in de krater terecht moet komen?

missie f:
als je de rover wel van de heuvel afhaald, maar niet op zijn wielen levert ie dan geen punten op?
hij moet dus of in de basis, wel of niet op zijn wielen. maar als ie de basis niet haald moet ie dan op zijn wielen staan?

missie h:
regelrecht uit de regels: "aan het eind van de wedstrijd moet de robot eindigen in of op de krater". wat is OP de krater?

algemeen:
- objecten die het doel half bereiken, dus de basis in moesten en op de lijn van de basis staan. leveren die op enige manier punten op?
- zijn er beperkingen aan de grootte/lengte/breete van de robot?

  1. Message by: FLL NL coordinator 10/28/2003 12:11:15 GMT
    Hallo Vikingteam33,

    Hieronder kort de antwoorden op jullie vragen.

    missie b:
    De opdracht is het lanceren van de bal. Waar de bal uiteindelijk terecht komt maakt dus niet uit, ook al is het in de lanceerinstallatie.

    missie c:
    Ook het verwijderen van **n blokje telt als gedeeltelijke reiniging.

    missie e:
    Nee, er is geen gespiegelde mat. Je kunt twee matten zo tegen elkaar leggen dat de wooneenheid op dezelfde plek staat. De basissen liggen dan beide aan de andere kant.

    missie f:
    De rover moet op zijn wielen eindigen, anders heeft het natuurlijk geen zin hem te bevrijden. Als je hem naar de basis brengt, maakt het niet meer uit of hij op zijn wielen staat.

    missie h:
    Op de krater is met **n of meerdere onderdelen op de rode kraterrand. Je krijgt voor deze missie alleen punten als het veld buiten de kraterrand niet aangeraakt wordt door de robot.

    algemeen:
    - Volgens regel 22 hoort de lijn ook bij de basis. Kijk ook naar het plaatje bij regel 19. Daar geldt A t/m E als in de basis.
    - Volgens regel 7 zijn er beperkingen aan de afmetingen van de robot. De robot moet binnen de denkbeeldige doos passen van 40 cm hoog en als zijkant de randen van de basis.


    1. Message by: vikingteam33 11/02/2003 14:05:29 GMT
      Ok, heeel erg bedankt voor al de antwoorden. Hier hebben we echt heel erg veel aan! Nu kunnen we weer verder :)

      Aan de hand van de antwoorden zijn er alleen weer nieuwe vragen op gekomen.

      - Volgens regel 7 zijn er beperkingen aan de afmetingen van de robot. De robot moet binnen de denkbeeldige doos passen van 40 cm hoog en als zijkant de randen van de basis.

      de randen van de basis, is dat de hele basis of alleen de verhoogde beginpositie?

      en nog een vraagje onbeantwoord.

      missie e:
      mag je iets achter laten in het veld? teld dat dan dus niet mee voor "de hele robot" die aan het einde in de krater terecht moet komen?

      alvast en nog bedankt voor de vorige antwoorden!



Folder: Vragen over de regels 11/21/2003 09:58:10 GMT
Hier discussie en vragen over de regels.

Discussion: toch een paar vragen By: vikingteam33 11/21/2003 09:58:10 GMT
ik vind de regels niet overal even duidelijk in
kan iemand mij helpen de volgende dingen beter te begrijpen?

regel 1.
"teamleden mogen wel wisselen tussen twee missies in."
aangezien missies niet voor beide (naast elkaar staande) teams het zelfde zijn. is dat dan niet storend voor een ander team?

regel 2.
hoe ziet de dag qua wedstrijden er uit? in de regels staat het volgende:
"De MC start de wedstrijd en de teams hebben 2 1/2 minuut de tijd om een aantal missies tot een goed einde te brengen. Meerdere wedstrijden volgen totdat elk team tenminste **n keer heeft gestreden. Dit proces is meer dan **n speelronde. Er zijn tenminste drie speelrondes per wedstrijd. Na elke ronde kunnen de teams naar een speciale ruimte gaan, waar ze de gelegenheid hebben de robot te repareren of aan te passen. Bij sommige wedstrijden worden extra rondes toegevoegd, zoals een finale ronde."
a) wat is een wedstrijd?
b) wat is een speelronde?
c) wat is een ronde?
d) wat is een finale ronde?

regel 5.
toegestane bettarijen zijn o.a. 6 AA batterijen. mogen er echt niet meer mee of is dat het aantal dat aan de robot vast zit?

regel 5.
toegestande materialen: mag dat, behalve electra, alle eigen lego zijn? dus bijvoorbeeld magneten en pompjes?

regel 10.
"richters of andere uitlijn apparaten mogen worden gebruikt om de robot in een goede startpositie te helpen"
wat zijn richters of andere uitlijn apparaten?

regel 13.
"de missies kunnen ... een keer worden overgedaan"
mag dat **n keer, of vaker?

regel 17.
mag je missie modellen verwijderen?
en wat is direct effect? ("tenzij het uitvoeren hiervan direct effect heeft")

regel 19.
"het eindigen van een missie in de positie A tot en met E resulteerd niet in het verlies van bonuspunten"
dus als je de robot uit het veld moet pakken tijdens een missie worden er alleen bonuspunten afgehaald als je bezig was met de missies F, G of H?

  1. Message by: FLL NL coordinator 10/28/2003 12:56:52 GMT
    Hallo vikingteam33,

    Bedankt voor jullie vragen. Aan de hand van jullie vragen zijn de regels (met name 2) hier en daar verduidelijkt. Hieronder kort een paar antwoorden.

    regel 1.
    Door de opstelling van de tafels staat ieder team aan een andere kant. Daarnaast kun je natuurlijk het andere team opzettelijk hinderen, maar dan kun je de prijs voor de beste Teamgeest wel vergeten. Dat is gewoon onsportief.

    regel 2.
    Stel je hebt vier teams, 1 t/m 4.

    begin toernooi

    begin speelronde 1 = ronde 1
    wedstrijd teams 1 en 2 (meerdere missies)
    wedstrijd teams 3 en 4 (meerdere missies)
    eind speelronde 1

    begin speelronde 2
    wedstrijd teams 1 en 3
    wedstrijd teams 2 en 4
    eind speelronde 2

    begin speelronde 3
    wedstrijd teams 4 en 1
    wedstrijd teams 2 en 3
    eind speelronde 3

    begin finale ronde
    wedstrijd teams 3 en 1
    eind finale ronde

    eind toernooi
    Zie ook de verbeterde tekst.

    regel 5.
    Het gaat hier alleen maar om de materialen die bij de robot horen die tijdens een wedstrijd op de wedstrijdtafel staat. Je mag zoveel batterijen, LEGO, motoren, computers e.d. meenemen naar de finale als je wilt.

    regel 5.
    Alle LEGO is toegestaan, dus ook pneumatisch en magneten. Alleen mogen processen daarmee alleen door de robot gestart worden en niet met de hand. Je mag bijvoorbeeld zelf van tevoren een opwindmotor opwinden. Maar het starten van de motor moet door de robot zelf gebeuren.

    regel 10.
    Uitlijnapparaten kan je gebruiken om ervoor te zorgen dat de robot steeds op dezelfde plek begint.

    regel 13.
    Je mag een missie zovaak opnieuw proberen als je wilt. Zie de verbeterde tekst.

    regel 17.
    De scheidsrechter mag missiemodellen verwijderen, zolang deze niet vastzitten aan de tafel zoals beschreven in opbouw tafel. Hij mag echter geen stofdeeltjes van het zonnepaneel verwijderen omdat dit direct effect heeft op de score.

    regel 19.
    Ik snap de vraag niet. Ook bij missies A, B, C, D, en E kom je buiten je basis


    1. Message by: vikingteam33 11/02/2003 14:22:05 GMT
      erg bedankt voor de antwoorden! en leuk om te horen dat door onze vragen de regels zijn aangepast :)

      over rregel 19 dan nog maar even. wat is bedoelde is het volgende:

      in de regels staat:
      "het eindigen van een missie in de positie A tot en met E resulteerd niet in het verlies van bonuspunten"

      ik neem aan dat positie A tot en met E, missie A tot en met E betekend?
      en het verlies van bonuspunten gebeurt als je de robot uit het veld moet pakken.
      dus, wat de regels zeggen is dat het 'eindigen van een missie', het uit het veld pakken van de robot dus, alleen een verlies van bonuspunten oplevert als je bezig bent met missies F, G of H.

      volgens mij is dit niet helemaal waar en neem ik dus ook aan dat positie A tot en met E iets anders is dan missie A tot en met E. maar wat dan?


    2. Message by: FLL NL coordinator 11/04/2003 17:48:31 GMT
      Met positie A t/m E worden de posities bedoeld die staan in het plaatje bij regel 9.


    3. Message by: ECT Elza makers 11/06/2003 16:54:53 GMT
      ECT Elza makers

      ook van ons enkele vraagjes:
      - mag je het zonnepaneel optillen om het schoon te krijgen?

      - je mag drie motoren gebruiken. Is dit drie motoren in het totaal of mag je verschillende robotarmen maken waarbij je steeds een andere motor gebruikt door de totale armen te wisselen?

      - er staan twee programeer manieren op de CD mag je zelf weten welke je gebruikt?


    4. Message by: FLL NL coordinator 11/13/2003 12:12:44 GMT
      - het zonnepaneel staat vast op de met met behulp van de dual-lock tape. Het is niet toegestaan deze los te maken. De zandduin is wel los en mag zelfs met de rover tegelijk meegenomen worden.

      - bij een wedstrijd mogen er drie motoren meegenomen worden naar de wedstrijdtafel. In de pit mag je er zoveel hebben als je wilt.

      - beide programmeer manieren zijn toegestaan


      1. Message by: SCZ SCZ34 11/17/2003 16:42:36 GMT
        dat is toch vreemd, dat dat zonnepaneel vast staat.
        dat staat helemaal nergens vermeld. wij hebben al een week ons programma steeds verbeterd om he t zonnepaneel op te tillen en alle blokjes eraf te gooien.
        toen we dit lazen was dat wel een hele grote teleurstelling.
        het was de enige missie die in ieder geval lukte.
        lekkere domper!!!!!!


    5. Message by: FLL NL coordinator 11/21/2003 09:58:10 GMT
      Zie ook de pagina: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=12540


Discussion: Toch nog 2 vragen By: Hanevoet-1 11/19/2003 08:33:35 GMT
Mag je aan het begin van de wedstrijd de krater laten verwijderen van het veld, zodat de kegels blijven staan?

Mogen we de eerste missie vanuit de basis naast het platform starten?

Discussion: lego leage By: redraiders76 11/05/2003 22:28:02 GMT
Hi we are the red hot commets and we are going for the first time. The lego leage will be fun and i hope you enjoy it to . cheers,
The red hot Commets !!!!!!!!!

  1. Message by: NASA 2034 10/31/2003 00:52:04 GMT
    You Should get working and have less team spirt. OH!! Improve your low selfestine................You stupid freak


    1. Message by: NASA 2034 10/31/2003 00:55:13 GMT
      Please give us some ideas about an arm for the ice cores. Also tell if your robot is consistint. Please reply!
      Yours truly, NASA SQUARED.


      1. Message by: 11/05/2003 22:28:02 GMT
        Deleted


    2. Message by: NASA 2034 10/31/2003 00:57:02 GMT
      We are pesky freaks but all the same give us advice on the magnetic Habitation Modules.


Discussion: you By: redraiders76 09/25/2003 21:47:08 GMT


  1. Message by: L.G.M.s1276 09/25/2003 21:47:08 GMT
    me


Discussion: to continue by a european contest By: DaxAttack21 10/31/2003 10:46:55 GMT
We are participating to french contest but next school year we want to organize an european contest with material of Missioj Mars 2003. We can do it in Holland with the help of ESTEC ! Who are interested in your contry ? Person in charge of your team can contact aide.fll@wanadoo.fr for more informations.

Discussion: Een bericht voor iedereen! By: vikingteam33 11/22/2003 00:15:14 GMT
Wij vikingteam33 gaan ervoor. We willen hierbij iedereen in Nederland succes wensen!!! We zijn erg benieuwd naar jullie robots. En we verheugen ons er tepletter. (op de wedstrijd)

Namens viking33,
Jules, Jan-Willem, Hidde, Coen, Martine, Michel en Robert.

  1. Message by: dreamteam44 11/22/2003 00:15:14 GMT
    Dank voor jullie aanmoediging. Jullie ook veel succes bij de wedstrijden morgen.

    Groeten,

    Dreamteam 44 en Zzzupergirls-43


Discussion: Hallo Nachbar By: TeamGGS1053 11/24/2003 21:03:51 GMT
Hallo Teams

Wir waren flei*ig - in anderer Hinsicht. Wir haben ein Forum gebastelt f*r den deutschsprachigen Raum. W*re toll, wenn sich die Teams oder Schulen auch au*erhalb des Wettbewerbes beteiligen k*nnten. Man k*nnte sich ja auch vor einem Wettbewerb treffen und *ben oder kleinere Wettbewerbe veranstalten.
http://www.mindstormsforum.de

Euer GGS Team aus Lingen


Folder: KOREA - [for Korean members] 01/02/2004 08:15:49 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Korea in this folder.


Folder: Seoul Mokdong LEC 12/09/2003 03:23:55 GMT


Discussion: Where are you Korean FLL player??? By: marsexplorer1361 12/09/2003 03:23:55 GMT
****** ****** FLL** ******** **********... **** ****** ******..

****** **** ******** **** ****** **** **********..

All of korean FLL Player.. Get up and Hurry up!

We can show our ability... Cheer up!!

Discussion: Test By: doctor_mars1362 12/02/2003 21:48:02 GMT
It's test discussion.
************.

  1. Message by: Robopanther3524 12/01/2003 23:24:49 GMT
    try to convert your piston valves to the breaker in a comintiont sent


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 12/02/2003 21:48:02 GMT
      I am sorry,but I dont speak korean.

      Lego rocks!!!


Discussion: does anyone know hong sik kim By: TechSavvy741 12/12/2003 08:28:35 GMT


  1. Message by: doctor_mars1362 12/12/2003 08:28:35 GMT
    I don't know hong sik kim... Who is he?


Discussion: ****** ****** **** **** By: marsexplorer1361 01/02/2004 08:15:49 GMT
**** 2003 FLL ******** **** ****** ********** **** ******** ****** ******** **************. ******** ****** ****** ************ **** ****** ************ ******** ****, ********** ****** ************ ****** **********, **** **** ** **** ****** ****(?)** ****** **, ******** ****** **** ** **** ****** **** ********.

**** ************** ** ****** **** ****** ******** ****** **********..


Folder: Make International Contact - [for ALL members] 12/09/2003 23:07:30 GMT
Use this folder to make contact with teams in other country's


Folder: HELP FOLDER 01/14/2004 20:45:47 GMT
HERE IS A FOLDER WHERE YOU CAN POST PLEAS FOR HELP.

Discussion: HELP By: MindStormTroopers1741 01/14/2004 20:41:28 GMT


  1. Message by: TechSavvy741 01/14/2004 20:41:28 GMT
    HELP WE NEED STRESS BUSTERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Discussion: need help with reserch By: Solar Sonics 4077 01/14/2004 20:46:06 GMT
we can't find any information on the misson's. can you please help us???????????????????

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 12/02/2003 21:51:16 GMT
    funny thing we have the exsact same problem


    1. Message by: TechSavvy741 01/14/2004 20:45:47 GMT
      In the coach book there are short write-ups about each mission

      hope this helps!

      Scott
      TechSavvy741

      p.s.there are links on the North Amercian Page.



Folder: hi everyone i like the tennesse titans and im from ri 11/10/2003 23:03:37 GMT
i want to know if any 1 did all the challenges

Discussion: hi By: vikings679 11/10/2003 23:02:35 GMT
were the space rangers and the messy mars marines

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 23:02:35 GMT
    yes they are


Discussion: hi By: vikings679 11/06/2003 18:26:30 GMT
were the space rangers and the messy mars marines

Discussion: hi By: vikings679 11/06/2003 18:26:39 GMT
were the space rangers and the messy mars marines

Discussion: hi By: vikings679 11/10/2003 23:03:37 GMT
were the space rangers and the messy mars marines

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 23:03:37 GMT
    I told you yes


Discussion: Greetings from Beaverton, Oregon By: Red Planet Gladiators702 11/05/2003 22:56:26 GMT
Hi! I'm the coach for the Red Planet Gladiators. This is our first year so I'm getting everything set up for our team and learning what is available so I can provide instruction. I'm hoping to be able to turn everything over to my team members shortly. While our team is quite young, we have been discussing Mars, LEGO, and robot design this summer and are eager to jump in and meet other teams.

Sincerely,
Glenn Graham, coach for the Red Planet Gladiators
http://home1.gte.net/res0jwg1/astronomy

  1. Message by: Ockerman Titans2021 09/08/2003 21:56:25 GMT
    Hey I'm from Florence, Kentucky, USA. How's it going everyone?


    1. Message by: Quark 09/09/2003 13:06:17 GMT
      Greetings from Denmark. Good luck to the both of you. I am sure you will have a great season together with your teams. If you have not done it already make sure to let your team know where to look into she sky to see Mars for real. It is quite amazing. Only 55 mill kilometers away :-)

      /Soren


    2. Message by: Alien Youth 1313 09/10/2003 14:46:46 GMT
      Greetings from the cheese state! I am not the head coach, but one of the team. I look forward to having a great time!
      ps
      if you want to see more go to our site
      www.alienyouth.tk
      :-)


    3. Message by: Women in Black 58 09/14/2003 02:45:05 GMT
      Greetings from Florida. I am the coach of 2 teams this year Women in Black 58 a team of 8th grade girls and Men in Black 56 a team of 8th grade boys. This is the second year for the boys and the first competition for the girls.
      We look forward to the challenge and look forward to communicating with teams from other areas.


    4. Message by: Sindarin148 09/14/2003 15:51:16 GMT
      Hello to all. We are the Sindarin Elves of Mercersburg, Pennsylvania, and this is our first year participating in FLL. We look forward to meeting many of you online and sharing ideas together as we learn. We hope to participate in the Pottsville, PA tournament on December 6, and we look forward to meeting some of you there.


      1. Message by: wrbbears1249 09/22/2003 20:51:58 GMT
        Hi, this is the co-captain of the wrb bears and research. This is our fourth year in lego mindstorm. We'll be glad to trade hints, tips, and ideas with you guys.

        RSVP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

        Brian :-)


        1. Message by: Rebels1051 09/25/2003 06:10:58 GMT
          Hi, i'm Becca on team R.E.B.E.L.S (robotic engineers beginning to evolve life's standards) we're in Wheeling, Il. This is my second year in the lego, and my school's 4th year running. P.S. is anyone building Acrobat 2?


    5. Message by: bobcats1969 09/16/2003 18:11:20 GMT
      Howdy, folks

      Anybody here from our side of the woods? I have just organized a team in Bozeman, MT! To my dismay, I found out that I probably have to organize a tournament as well, or we don't get to compete :-( Anybody around us with a similar predicament? We could do a triwizard tournament! Oh, no, this was a different story :-) Anyway, we could do a inter-state tournament if there are interested people in Idaho, Wyoming or Utah.

      Regards,
      Alex
      alex@cns.montana.edu


    6. Message by: Bananas of Doom656 09/18/2003 21:50:46 GMT
      Greetings from the "Evil Flying Bananas of Doom" not my first choice for a team name but that's what you get whn you turn a bunch of 7th and 8th graders loose. Ours is the first team in south Texas that I am aware of. Would like to hear from any others in our area, or from anywhere in the world.
      Sincerely:
      Mike Benning
      Coach
      mike@theframeupcc.com


      1. Message by: Rebels1051 09/25/2003 06:12:10 GMT
        Hey! Not all our names our bad, my team is all 7th grade and look what we've got!


    7. Message by: Debugs483 09/20/2003 21:47:26 GMT
      Hey to everyone! We're a homeschooled team from Anchorage AK, starting our second year. We took 3rd last year, and hope to place 1st this year. Great to talk to you all!!

      Hannah, team member, DeBugs

      P.S. btw, Sindarin148, are you LotR fans?


      1. Message by: Women in Black 58 09/22/2003 17:34:52 GMT
        Greeting Anchorage,
        I am the coach of two teams made up of 8th graders, one male and one female. I had family living in Fairbanks a few years ago and visited your beautiful state. Good luck in your competition.


    8. Message by: wrbbears1249 09/23/2003 20:26:31 GMT
      Hi, does anyone know if the sticky stuff came with the lego pieces to hold them down. RSVP

      Brian :-0


      1. Message by: Biobots 876193 09/23/2003 22:11:15 GMT
        Hi Brian,
        The velcro pieces should have been included in your kit when it came. Some pieces work fine as is and some you will have to cut to size. You may have to contact the company if you didn't get any. :-)

        Linda J.
        Biobots 876 Coach
        Cedar Rapids, IA


      2. Message by: Giggly Galaxy Girls 1681 09/25/2003 03:43:06 GMT
        We found ours in the box with the map. We shook the box to make sure nothing else was inside and the 3M tape slid out. Hopefully you still have your box.


      3. Message by: challoner233 11/05/2003 22:56:26 GMT
        the stuff sticks together like velcro so you can pull it apart and together easily


    9. Message by: Robohawk 2256 09/24/2003 20:04:51 GMT
      Hi. I am the coach of 2 team this year (down from 3 in the past). This will be my 4th year coaching. I also experienced the joy of having the only teams in the state our first year (I coached 2 that year also). We were fortunate enough to live in North Carolina. The WONDERFUL people in Virginia gladly welcomed us to their tournament (before they had so many teams that they had to start having regionals to qualifify for state).

      The next year was 2001, and because of 9/11, we were not allowed to travel out of state. I convinced our local high school (with a FIRST team) to host a state tournament for 14 teams. We have been growing ever since.

      Good luck to everyone!

      Team names? They haven't decided yet. Team numbers 2256 and 2257.


    10. Message by: B.O.T.S.1429 09/26/2003 04:41:20 GMT
      Hello Everyone from Connersville Indiana! Good Luck teams and most important...HAVE FUN!!!


    11. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/14/2003 19:04:16 GMT
      I just wanted to say that our team is hoping for a succesful launch of the Chinese manned orbital mission and safe return of their pilot(s)!


    12. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/14/2003 19:12:56 GMT
      Our team came across this photo while doing some research. I'm not sure if its MER-A or MER-B but I thought it was appropriate for October (at least here in N. America and UK, anywhere else?).


    13. Message by: 10/16/2003 21:53:48 GMT
      Deleted


    14. Message by: Marbots 10/21/2003 22:33:58 GMT
      I hope everyone does a great job. We need the support as well.


    15. Message by: SMMS 10/24/2003 00:43:21 GMT
      Hi from stamford Connecticut. :) ;)


    16. Message by: Electronic Executioners2148 11/03/2003 05:31:09 GMT
      Hi from Albany Oregon. Our team is in its second year of competition. We wish good luck to everyone.


      1. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 11/03/2003 07:01:10 GMT
        Hi! How did you fare last year and how do you find the challenges this year compared to last?


Discussion: Greetings from Germany By: TeamGGS1053 12/02/2003 00:26:37 GMT
Many Greetings from Germany - Lingen (Ems). We look forward to the competition and wish all much fun.

GGS Team :-)

  1. Message by: Rebels1051 09/25/2003 06:13:45 GMT
    Hi from a little north of Chicago,IL, USA! Good luck to all!


    1. Message by: BvilleFLL402 09/30/2003 19:54:30 GMT
      Greetings to Germany.
      We are connecting through http://SENSORSCITY.marshall.edu to run programs with data lgging.
      It is a way to get a RoboLab Investigator program to use and modify for gathering light and touch sensor data. There are two cameras to watch the programs go. http://lego.marshall.edu can run other programs, too.


    2. Message by: vikingteam33 10/10/2003 19:39:10 GMT
      Greetings to Germany, from Holland. Good luck with the game.


    3. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:50:41 GMT
      Good luck to every one from Holland,MI!

      ~Marbots


    4. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:50:51 GMT
      Good luck to every one from Holland,MI!

      ~Marbots


    5. Message by: HMS Raiders 427 10/18/2003 00:45:48 GMT
      Hello Team GGS1053 - We are the HMS Raiders #427 from Michigan, USA. We wish you much luck, lots of fun, and a bit of learning as well.


    6. Message by: SMMS 10/27/2003 21:45:09 GMT
      We are the a CT team and wish that we can all share information and get to know one another.
      Good Luck at the compettion! :)

      PS: We won awards last year and will be of much of help to you as you will be to us. ;)


    7. Message by: Organized Chaos 253 10/30/2003 01:08:26 GMT
      Hello from Wheeling, West Virginia in the U.S.A.! WE hope you have lots of fun in the competition. Good luck this year!

      Auf Wiedersehen!
      Organized Chaos 253


    8. Message by: blue1721 10/30/2003 02:52:25 GMT
      Hi, we are currently undecided about are name. So for now just call us the blue team. We are looking for info on the MAV Launcher. So therefore if you have any info please post it and the website name. Hi again from the blue team and good luck with your robot and the competition.


    9. Message by: SMMS 10/30/2003 15:22:18 GMT
      Hi blue1721 team. We are team SMMS from Connecticut USA. My team would lke to talk with yours. Check the NASA website http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mer/ for more information on Mars.

      :) Team SMMS ;)


    10. Message by: Low Riders1694 12/02/2003 00:24:31 GMT
      GREETING FELLOW HUMANIODS! I have superiour knowledge of turn based combat.
      Atari forever!
      Peace out!
      Word.
      Home slive.
      Dawg.


      1. Message by: Low Riders1694 12/02/2003 00:26:37 GMT
        Hey. Its myself again. I know who invented tuperware. No im working. MUST RESEARCH!
        Peace out.
        Home slice.
        1st generation consoles will never die.
        Who cares if it was bad 3d it was 3d none the less.


Discussion: Hey RoboHobos By: RoboGirls 11/10/2003 22:19:21 GMT
Hey RoboHobos

We are a team, with 6 girls. Our names are: Melina, *nia, Iben, Sandra, Annica and Marie. We are the Robogirls. we are going to school at "S*ndermarkskolen" in Billund, we are all in the 5th grade.

We are already programming the robot because on next thursday we are going to show our robot to the Chinese minister of educatiom!! We have three adults to help us, their names are: Harriet, Tormod, Torben. We meet 2 times a week, somtimes 3 times. We work hard every time we meet. We think its fun. We are working in the basement of Tormods office. In the basement, we have a computer to program the robot, we have of course also the playingfield to do the missions on.

Today we have made some drawings of a logo for our team. but we have to finish it next time we have a meeting.

The 22. October a newspaper will visit us and interview us and take pictures of us. They will make an article about the Robogirls, so many people can read about us.

We would like to send many regards to you all and especially to Alli who knows Sandra. Actually Sandra and Alli met some years ago at Alli's house.

We would like to have a picture of you, and we will send a photo of us next time we write to you

Best regards
Robogirls
(Melina and Marie)

  1. Message by: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 11/05/2003 02:14:21 GMT
    Cool. Good luck! I'm guessing that by being in fifth grade its your first time. Hope you have a good year. We suck at the current moment. Also, DON'T CALL ME A ROBOHOBO!!!!


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 22:19:21 GMT
      where do you guys live and i mean what stat


Discussion: I wonna great every one from Holland. By: vikingteam33 10/16/2003 21:48:21 GMT
Do you have questions for smart Hollanders?

  1. Message by: 10/10/2003 19:14:12 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:48:21 GMT
      How do you add a fork lift?


Discussion: Marbots By: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:56:57 GMT


  1. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:44:10 GMT
    Are team is called marbot


    1. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:56:57 GMT
      Our good team can help u with stuff


Discussion: Marbots By: Marbots 10/16/2003 22:07:37 GMT
We are a new team in Holland, MI, US of A.
wish us lots of luck.

  1. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:45:40 GMT
    We just started. there are more lego leage people then i expected.


    1. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:47:00 GMT
      Marbots are in holland,MI


      1. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 22:07:37 GMT
        Ha Ha


    2. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:47:12 GMT
      We just started. there are more lego leage people then i expected.


Discussion: research By: Marbots 10/30/2003 22:21:58 GMT
Does anyone know of a good website for researching ice cores? if so please post it. It would be of great help!

  1. Message by: Marbots 10/21/2003 22:29:48 GMT
    Yes please help us & post them ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!


    1. Message by: SMMS 10/22/2003 00:45:58 GMT
      have you tried serching on NASA's website and www.google.com. :)

      SMMS USA Connecticut


      1. Message by: SMMS 10/23/2003 14:26:01 GMT
        the NASA website is http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mer/


    2. Message by: Mars Malows 1614 10/23/2003 00:10:06 GMT
      You should look in the resources section of this website. It shows some links you could click on and it should help you.


    3. Message by: cls1820 10/30/2003 22:21:58 GMT
      Go to www.google.com and type in Mars, you'll get a lot of information. Other helpful websites are Nasa Kids and http://www.allsciencestuff.com/phy_ast/astronomy/mars.


Discussion: Hello from Connecticut By: SMMS 11/07/2003 23:45:27 GMT
We are the a CT team and wish that we can all share information and get to know one another.
Good Luck at the compettion! :)

PS: We won awards last year and will be of much of help to you as you will be to us. ;)

  1. Message by: Legoreds 10/29/2003 15:04:31 GMT
    Hi we are the Legoreds from germany

    Good luck and don't Lusch

    P.S Gr**e f*r die Robolions
    The girls love you


    1. Message by: SMMS 10/30/2003 15:16:58 GMT
      Good luck to you too. :)

      Team SMMS Connecticut USA ;)


    2. Message by: legolions300 11/05/2003 22:54:35 GMT
      Hi we are the team from Queen Anne School in Maryland this is are first time at doing this compettion i wish every one good luck


      1. Message by: SMMS 11/07/2003 23:45:15 GMT
        Hi :) ;)
        and good luck.


    3. Message by: wd40s2305 11/06/2003 04:53:04 GMT
      Hello and good luck to all


Discussion: robolions meet legoreds By: Legoreds 10/27/2003 14:22:40 GMT
hi robolions
we*ll see you in cologne
and we won*t be the losers

many greetz by the girls
they love you
and don*t lusch
it*s better for you

Discussion: Robot photos By: red marauders77 11/19/2003 19:49:08 GMT
Hi! We the Red Marauders from Singapore, and we would like to exchange photos of our robot with other teams all around the world. If you would like to share your robot photos with us, e-mail us at redmarauders@hotmail.com . Thanks.
-Ruizhi,11

  1. Message by: challoner233 11/05/2003 22:59:58 GMT
    hi you stole our picture and i thought it would be origional


    1. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 11/19/2003 19:49:08 GMT
      Yeah, but how about after the competition.


Discussion: BIG reasearch QUESTION By: MindStormTroopers1741 11/19/2003 19:47:17 GMT
Our team has an important question about our research project... the habitation modules. Should we design every little detail and plan out the whole voyage? Or should it be were we just think of one little thing... say, how to supply a breath able atmosphere, and focus on that ignoring everything else? Obviously it should be neither of these extremes... but where should it be in between?

Discussion: Another BIG mondo REASEARCH QUESTION By: MindStormTroopers1741 11/21/2003 01:44:51 GMT
Lets say that our team took the time to plan out every last detail of the habitation modules* including designing the space craft to get there, specifying its landing site, designing the rovers to build, and finding and using the ice caps as a water source. Would that be flowing off to much into other research projects like robot recovery and ice caps?

Discussion: Thanks Nozomi, good luck Beagle! By: Red Planet Gladiators702 12/09/2003 23:07:30 GMT
Thanks Nozomi, for providing such a great inspiration to our team. Launched over 5 years ago it was planned to reach Mars in less than a year. A thruster malfunction required the team to plan a series of planetary pass-by's over the course of four years to finally arrive at Mars. Unfortunately, during its travels though the inner solar system, solar flares damaged the power supply, the fuel supply froze, ... Each time the Nozomi engineers perservered and kept Nozomi alive. Finally, this week, Nozomi was to be put into orbit around Mars. Unfortunately, due to lack of fuel, Nozomi failed to enter Mars orbit. Like other failed Mars spacecraft, many years of dedicated effort went into Nozomi but success if never guarenteed.

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/nozomi_done_031209.html
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/nozomi_update_031121.html

Next to arrive at Mars will be BeagleII lander. Cheers to the BeagleII team!

Glenn Graham
coach, Red Planet Gladiators


Folder: NORTH AMERICA - [for North America members] 02/27/2004 06:36:34 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns North America in this folder.


Folder: ***ICE CORES RESEARCH INFO AND QUESTIONS*** 12/05/2003 15:25:41 GMT
Post all of your concerns HERE :)

Discussion: Where is a good site to research the content of Mars's Ice Cores? By: robopanther2989 11/14/2003 17:08:03 GMT
:(

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/14/2003 17:08:03 GMT
    sorry we dont know eather


Discussion: *****ways to pick up all the Ice Cores******* By: Robopanther3524 12/05/2003 15:25:41 GMT


  1. Message by: Robopanther3524 12/01/2003 23:14:47 GMT
    What are some ways that you can get over the crater, grab all the ice cores, and easily get back to base


    1. Message by: Robopanther3524 12/01/2003 23:16:34 GMT
      We are trying to hook them all on a hook and bring them back over the crater to the base


      1. Message by: Robopanther3524 12/01/2003 23:28:02 GMT
        It is the only way


    2. Message by: TechSavvy741 12/04/2003 23:00:40 GMT
      are you sure


    3. Message by: Legonauts4 12/05/2003 15:25:41 GMT
      There are always multiple ways of doing things in this league. Never assume that there is only one way.

      Ask yourself does the robot have to carry them back?
      What types of motion can get them back to base?
      Push, Pull, Carry, Fly, Materialize, to name a few.

      Think out of the box.

      -Dave
      Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605



Folder: 2003 Mission Mars tournament Results 02/29/2004 07:07:33 GMT
Please post results of tournaments in this folder.

Discussion: Wisconsin Appleton and Stevens Point By: Tekno Devils40 02/15/2004 17:02:29 GMT
Appleton results at:
http://www.uwsp.edu/education/creative/FLL/Tournament/Scores.asp?Id=2

Stevens Point results at:
http://www.uwsp.edu/education/creative/FLL/Tournament/Scores.asp?Id=1

(Thanks to Mark Beitz)

  1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/20/2003 05:11:46 GMT
    Appleton, WI and this post for some explanations of the Wisconsin scores and some opinions on why scores and results may not be necessarily be the most important part of FLL. - Mark


  2. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/25/2003 05:41:19 GMT
    Results for the Wisconsin state tournament results from December 14 are now posted. For those of you following high table scores, Team 25 posted a high of 388 and Team 1145 posted a high of 370. Congratulations to all teams!

    Also - thanks to the staff at Wisconsin Creative Problem Solving Programs for posting scores so quickly!

    - Mark Beitz, coach


    1. Message by: dragondevils119 02/04/2004 01:47:09 GMT
      Mark,
      did that team really achieve a perfect score? That is awesome!! Do you know if they were able to complete the Alliance module on their own?

      Joe, team 119 coach.


      1. Message by: AKEEMA 23 02/11/2004 14:38:00 GMT
        Hi, Joe.

        I'm one of the coaches of the Martian Exchange Students and yes, they did get a perfect score on their last run at the Wisconsin State tournament. (Initially, the score was posted incorrectly as a 388, but a review of the tape from the competition confirmed a perfect run) The kids completed the alliance on their own. The team is creating a web site and, hopefully, will add a video clip of the run within a couple of days. Look for it at www.ocfll.com.

        Sue Wanninger
        Team #25 Martian Exchange Students
        Team #23 AKEEMA


  3. Message by: dragondevils119 02/12/2004 18:02:27 GMT
    Hi Sue.
    Will you be going to the Nationals? I'd love to see the robot in action. We had a 388 round at our state tourney. We did not even try to bring the rover back. We figured no one would try. Now the team has another goal to shoot for since we did have some time left in our round.

    Great job!!

    Joe


    1. Message by: AKEEMA 23 02/14/2004 00:23:04 GMT
      Hi Joe.

      Yes, the Martian Exchange Students' team will be in Atlanta. We're really looking forward to it, although I think it will be a little bit of a struggle to keep everyone's energy level up until then. (Let me know if you have any ideas on that)

      I thought that I read somewhere that this was your team's second year at Nationals. My husband and I were in Houston last year, but as coaches of the Jimmy and the Neutrons' team. It was lots of fun. I'm hoping that we have a little more time to get to know some fellow coaches and that the kids can meet Fllers from around the country.

      Have fun getting ready for nationals! We'll see you in two months!

      Sue Wanninger


      1. Message by: dragondevils119 02/14/2004 08:15:57 GMT
        Hi Sue,
        this will actually be our 3rd nationals. We went to Orlando before Houston. At Houston we were the Director's Award Honorable Mention winner. All the girls on the team are 8th graders so this will be their last FLL tournament. Some of them are being actively recruited for the high school robotics team. Some are going to be mentors for Lego teams.

        I gave the team 2 months off but starting next week it's back to business. They really want to get started. I have planned a couple of team building events to keep them focused. We are having a team party at Laser Quest (laser tag) and then we are giving a Lego demonstration to the local teams with a questions and answer session. But teenagers have busy lives nowadays.

        See you at Atlanta.

        Joe Hopkins


        1. Message by: AKEEMA 23 02/15/2004 06:28:34 GMT
          Hi, Joe.

          Wow, three times at nationals. Congratulations! That must be so cool for the girls - Florida, Texas, and now Georgia. Have the same kids been on the team for all three years?

          By the way, my husband remembers that the Dragon Devils were part of the alliance with Jimmy and the Neutrons' and the Urban Wizards' last year in Houston. We've got a copy of a tape where the teams are chanting Jimmy - Dragon - Wizards' during our alliance run. Jimmy' is the lone member of last year's team on the Martian Exchange Student team.

          I laughed when you mentioned laser tag. Laser Tag is the Martian Exchange Students' favorite activity!

          I'm sure we'll talk' before Atlanta. Tell the girls that the Martian Exchange Students' say hi!

          Sue


          1. Message by: dragondevils119 02/15/2004 17:02:29 GMT
            We started in 2000 with 6. In 2001, 1 changed schools and we picked up 3. Same 8 for the last 3 years although 1 can't make it to Atlanta. We also compete at Robofest which is put on at a local university in April.
            We have a website which has pictures of the past tournaments. You may find your team in there somewhere.
            www.dragondevils.com

            Talk to you later,

            Joe


Discussion: New Hampshire results By: Tekno Devils40 12/17/2003 14:51:42 GMT


  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/01/2003 13:49:35 GMT
    Merrimack Tournament results are at:
    http://www.chopshop166.com

    -Skye


    1. Message by: pennichuck864 12/02/2003 18:48:51 GMT
      Thanks Skye ..

      Looks like the Tekno Devils are heading to the state tournament and with an Innovative Solution Award. Congrats!

      Do you recall any of the performance scores for the meet? Just curious as to where we fit in on the spectrum.

      - Paul


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/02/2003 19:34:06 GMT
        Sorry, no scores. I know that we never broke 200! Many
        teams were in the mid to upper 200s. One team I think
        broke 300.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/08/2003 22:59:31 GMT
      Fairgrounds local tournament results:

      1st Place performance: #74 Albino Monkeys
      2nd Place performance: #40 Tekno Devils
      (Last match was 259 to 307)

      Robust Design: #52 Flying Geeks
      Programming Award: #40 Tekno Devils
      Innovative Design: #57 Batteries Not Included (BNI)
      Creative Presentation: #74 Albino Monkeys
      Quality Presentation: #24 Raptors
      Innovative Presentation: #1269 Puma's
      Teamwork: #52 Flying Geeks
      Judge's Award: #57 Batteries Not Included (BNI)
      Director's Award: #40 Tekno Devils


    3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/17/2003 14:26:44 GMT
      NH State Tournament Results (1 of 4)

      The NH State Tournament took place on Saturday, Dec 13, 2003. The tournament was amazingly well organized by the sponsors; as far as I could tell, everything went off without a hitch! Congratulations are due to the organizers and all teams that participated. Twenty-six judges, 13 referees, and more than 100 volunteers planned and executed the state tournament. The level of preparation amongst the teams was extremely impressive; there were some amazing rookie teams, as well as seasoned veterans (some teams with 5 years of FLL experience!)

      One of the most deserved awards, in my opinion, was the outstanding volunteer award, which was presented to Skye Sweeney, for his work over the past three years to promote FLL and help anybody who requests it! Thank you, Skye! I know that my interest in FLL as a coach has been heightened by Skye's enthusiasm and assistance.

      BAE Systems, in partnership with the New Hampshire Society for Technology in Education, was this year*s tournament sponsor. The Nashua School District provided the facility support. This was the second annual New Hampshire State tournament.

      The next three postings in the forum continue the NH tournament results from the official press release. (The postings are too long to be placed in a single message. If you post a followup, please do so after the last message, to keep this sequence together.)

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    4. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/17/2003 14:33:37 GMT
      NH State Tournament Results (2 of 4)

      NASHUA, N.H. (Dec. 13, 2003) * Mindstorms Mayhem, a team of 10 students home schooled from five cities in southern New Hampshire, was named 2003*s BAE Systems FIRST LEGO* League New Hampshire State Tournament champion at the Nashua High School North Campus, Dec 13.

      Placing second was the Flying Geeks, Nashua Christian Academy, Nashua, N.H.

      FIRST LEGO* League (FLL) is one of the largest science competitions for students throughout the U.S.

      Mindstorms Mayhem was among 48 elementary and middle school teams from throughout New Hampshire and Massachusetts providing both a robotic solution and a research presentation to interplanetary mission challenges. *Mission Mars* invited students to explore the Martian landscape, solving problems unique to the Red Planet*s environment.

      *The greatest challenge was to learn to work together as a team,* said Ben Streeter, Mayhem robot handler, *Once we did, we found we were good at different things * builders, programming, team spirit and research.*

      Other Mindstorms Mayhem students are Melissa Gray, Nathan Gray, Brian Jennings, Ben Krupkin, Jacob Krupkin, David Schunemann, Ben Streeter, Nathan Streeter, Dan Umenhofer and Vickie Umenhofer. Coaches are Ken Streeter, Bill Gray and Christopher Jennings.

      FLL, in its fifth season, seeks to encourage an interest in science, math and technology among students, ages 9-14, in a compressed, rapid-paced program. *This year*s challenge was particularly exciting because it made a current event -- NASA*s Mars rover landing next month -- relevant to each participant,* said Linda Lavoie, director for the New Hampshire tournament. *Students gain a broader appreciation of current events because they*re encouraged to recognize the challenges inherent in an event as well as hone their skills to solve those challenges. At the same time, everyone -- students and volunteers -- is having fun.*

      In October, more than 49,000 students from throughout the U.S., and 12 other nations accepted the challenge to solve Martian exploration and colonization challenges faced by astronauts and NASA engineers. For the past eight weeks, the 4,200 teams worked on their robotic solutions using LEGO* MINDSTORMS * robotics technology kits; strategizing, then designing, building and testing their solution to solve Martian exploration challenges. For the research element, the teams studied one of the challenge*s missions and developed a research question related to such issues as maneuvering and travel, Martian living conditions, space technology and alliances. They then prepared a presentation to demonstrate how robotics technology can address their question.

      In the Mayhem presentation, they discussed the need for energy resources and the practical application of a geothermal power solution, explained Nathan Gray, Mayhem team member. *Solar panels are too hard to keep free of the Martian dust; windmill blades would have to be too large to maintain and hamster power isn*t economical. So geothermal power becomes the obvious and practical resource.*

      At the New Hampshire Tournament, a robot*s performance was judged in a 2-1/2 minute round to accomplish certain tasks on an 8-foot by 4-foot tabletop, maneuvering around obstacles and creating alliances with other teams for maximum performance. For Mission Mars, tasks included clearing dust from a solar panel, loading and launching a canister from a MAV launcher, connecting habitation modules, freeing a rover and moving ice cores to base.

      Over the last six months, WGBH*s *Zoom* has documented the FLL program and entered a team in the New Hampshire tournament; the five-part series is set to air May 2004 as part of the popular education program.



    5. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/17/2003 14:34:25 GMT
      NH State Tournament Results (3 of 4)

      OFFICIAL RESULTS

      • Director*s Award (overall best performance based on five elements: robot design, robot performance score, research presentation, team work and FLL values)

        • First Place: Mindstorms Mayhem

        • Second Place: The Flying Geeks
          Team members are Dan Vaccaro, Cameron Fournier, C.T. Spaulding, Mike Hans, Rachel Bohanan, and Brian Gray. Advisor is Randy Bohanan


      • Technical innovative Design (most original approach to solving the challenge)

        • First Place: Team 50937
          Team members are Alice Arsenault, Julia Coffin, Caleb McCandless, Heather Parker and Will Scheffer. Advisor is Mark Kritlow

        • Second Place: Twitching Martian Masters, Amherst Middle School, Amherst, N.H.
          Team members are David Arsenault, William Carbery, Taylor George, Quinn Glover, Nicholas Murphy and Dennis Wilson. Advisors are Dennis Wilson and Joe George


      • Technical Robust Design (best mechanical design)

        • First Place: The Flying Geeks

        • Second Place: M.A.R.S. *The Virus*, Amherst Middle School, Amherst, N.H.
          Team members are Grant Davis, Jake Fiacco, Lizzy Fiacco, Kelsie Helberg, Sam Lowell, and Dustin Newhouse. Advisors are Mike and Vicki Fiacco


      • Technical Programming (program that best bridges the gap between robot hardware and team strategy)

        • First Place: Space Cowboys, Nashua Catholic Regional Junior High School, Nashua, N.H.
          Team members are Jeff Kelley, Brian Collette, Drew Garvey, Tom Indelicato, Vincent Cicchetti, Derek Huang, Matt Vegliante and Matt Fecteau. Advisors are Sue Kelley and Marray Collette

        • Second Place: The Munchkins, Community Team, Bedford and Jaffrey, N.H.
          Team members are Spencer Frank, Peter Aiello, Stephanie Schaeberle, Alex Nolet, Eric Nolet and Roxanne Harmon. Advisors are Beatrice Schaeberle and Chris Nolet


      • Research Presentation (best reflects an understanding of the issues and scientific disciplines involved in the challenge theme)

        • First Place for quality research: Batteries No Included, Hudson Memorial School, Hudson, N.H.
          Team members are Shawn Gould, Laura Gould, Daniel Holm, Jay Dupont, Bradley Poegel, Meghan O*Keefe and Michael O*Keefe. Advisors are Susan Gould and Ron Holm

        • Second Place: Martian Vipers, Community Team, Weare, N.H.
          Names not available.

        • First Place for innovative solution: Red Ice, Hudson Memorial School, Hudson, N.H.
          Team members are Joe Geoffray, Jim Hebert, Garrett Huang, Chris Melanson, Geoffrey Paguette and Brian Stewart. Advisors are Kevin Rochford, Mike Hebert, Dana Paguette, Renee Paguette, and Deb Warren

        • Second Place: Engine Ears, Londonderry Home School and Middle School, Londonderry, N.H.
          Team members are Ryan Landry, Daniel Farris, Brendan Brown, Andrew Lee, Andrew Law, Joseph Lavalliere and Peter Landry. Advisor is Randall Landry

        • First Place for creative presentation: Tekno Devils, Fairgrounds Junior High School, Nashua, N.H.
          Team members are Brian Pelletier, Nicole Gaudette, Sama Kadakia, Sesha Kadakia, Andrew Hugh, Dhishant Asorpota and Glenn Sweeney. Advisor is Skye Sweeney and Shefali Kadakia

        • Second Place: The Red Man Group, Hollis Brookline Middle School, Hollis, N.H.
          Team members are Chris Clement, Jeff Hammond, Zack Metea, Matt Papineau, Marty Perkins, and Ryan Schwers. Advisors are Scott Papineau and Mark Metea


      • Teamwork (team that best demonstrates partnership, respect and problem solving skills with other teams)

        • First Place: Zoom (WGBH - Boston)
          Team members are Mike, Shing Ying, Cara, Maya, Francesco, Kortney and Kyle. Advisor is Kristen Kelso

        • Second Place: The Pleiades, Dover, N.H.
          Team members are Emily Balch, Gwen Milliman, Hannah Coon, Molly Hearn, Stephanie Broido, Suzanne Hearn and Zoey Frocking.


    6. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/17/2003 14:44:21 GMT
      NH State Tournament Results (4 of 4)

      OFFICIAL RESULTS, continued

      • Rookie Award (rookie team that best shows promise) went to Mars Pets, Amherst/Wilkins Elementary, Amherst, N.H.
        Team members are Taylor Bardsley, Shelby Belak, Julie Harris, Samantha Jones, and Madison Thompson. Advisors are Peggy Harris and David Bardsley

      • Team Spirit Award (team that most enthusiastically demonstrates a commitment to the challenge) went to Liquid Fire, Auburn Village School, Auburn, N.H.
        Team members are Kara DiNatale, John Grossmith, Ben Hart, Tommy McCarthy, Dillan Murray, Dan Pelletier, Tyler Pepin and Shayne Swart. Advisors are Jill Greely, Becki McCarthy and Eric Murray

      • Performance Award (highest scoring team robot in the tournament elimination round)

        • First Place: Robosquad, Embed, Inc., Groton/Dunstable, Ma.
          Team members are John Cushion and Ari Lathrop. Advisor is O. Lathrop

        • Second Place: Spoink, Pennichuck Junior High, Pennichuck, Nashua, N.H.
          Team members are John Close, Karrinda Deleija, Paul Duvall, Stephen Griffin, Chris Lamere, Daniel Miller, Ben Prichard, Brian Russo, Ryan Snyder and Alan Soto. Advisors are Paul Lamere, Laurie Conrad and Colette Valade

        • Third Place: Mindstorms Mayhem

        • Fourth Place: Flying Geeks


      • Judges Awards (recognizing remarkable achievements)

        • Against All Odds went to The Dumples, Mastricola Middle School, Merrimack, N.H. Team members are Erik Hamnquist, Gavin King, Michael Skarda, David Porbunderwala, Josh Moberger and Ken Aborn. Advisors are Fran Leach and Ross Martin

        • Gracious Professionalism went to Robo Hobos, St Catherine*s School, Manchester, N.H. Team members are Matthew Dumont, Alli Sarazen, Stephanie Demetry, Michael Lazas, Greg Denis and Lydia Denis. Advisors are Liz and John Demetry, and Paula and Fran Denis


      • Young Adult Coach/Mentor (high school or college student whose support and guidance best demonstrates FLL values and objectives) went to Kristen Kelso, Zoom

      • Adult Coach/Mentor (individual whose support and guidance best demonstrates FLL values and objectives) went to Steve George, Merrimack

      • Outstanding Volunteer went to Skye Sweeney, Nashua, for a variety of leadership roles and contributions to the local league effort. A long-time FLL volunteer, Sweeney wrote this year*s coach handbook, planned and led two local tournaments and contributed to the New Hampshire State tournament Web site.



Discussion: Indiana Regional - Notre Dame By: Bremen Botz! 12/13/2003 02:01:40 GMT
Our team was able to post a 356 at the Notre Dame regional yesterday. The scores should be available soon at http://www.nd.edu/~fll

Les Turner
Bremen Botz! - 195

  1. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 12/09/2003 21:32:44 GMT
    356! Wow, I don't think I've heard of a better score being reported. Could you give us a short, general description of the missions you attempted and how they were done (no technical details)?


    1. Message by: Rusty Engineers 12/09/2003 22:15:27 GMT
      That's impressive.
      Can I assume the only thing you did not accomplish was connecting the habitation modules?
      Also, out of curiousity, why was that score so much higher than your other rounds?


    2. Message by: Bremen Botz! 12/11/2003 05:57:27 GMT
      There is a team in California that turned a 364...

      Our runs were inconsistent for a number of reasons. The first table we ran had 2x4's that were extemely rough. Enough to throw off all our wall following distances.

      The last table, we had everything except the 180 degree hab modules when the other team crashed and burned on the alliance module, knocking it onto our side of the table, keeping us from completing that mission. It also opened up the alliance module when it hit. Overall we feel lucky to have gotten a good run in.

      During practices the robot runs 400's about 1 of 4 times. We still have a state tournament this weekend, so we will see what happens.

      Hopefully the tables will be more consistent!

      Les ---
      Bremen Botz! - 195


      1. Message by: 12/13/2003 02:01:40 GMT
        Deleted


    3. Message by: Bremen Botz! 12/11/2003 06:11:56 GMT
      Our missions are run in the following order...

      1 - We sweep the solar panel on the way to closing the Alliance Module with a clamp. (86 pts / :10 sec)

      2 - Retrieve Ice Cores (49 pts / :15 sec)

      3 - Retrieve Rover using a latch mechanism on the end of a lift (43 pts / :30 sec)

      4 - Deliver canister to MAV and push Habitation Modules into place. (49 pts / :15 sec)

      5A - Lower tetrahedron base and return to base. (39 pts / :10 sec)

      5B - Push closest boulder into circle, activate MAV launcher, put furthest boulder into circle, and end up in the crater. (90 pts / :25 sec)

      Boulder bonus 44 pts

      Program 5 has two stacks depending on the setting of a touch sensor.

      Les Turner
      Bremen Botz! - 195

      We will put a lot more detail on our website after the tournaments are over for everyone (for obvious reasons).


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/11/2003 07:20:05 GMT
        Bremen Botz, Thanks for sharing your mission strategy. The team I coach has a very similar mission scenario, also attempting to go for everything. If we qualify for the NH State Tournament in interviews Thursday night, then we will have a chance to see how well the team's robot works under pressure on a different table at the tournament this weekend.

        Are the times you posted only the run time of the robot? (Not including "transition time.") If your times above include transitions, then I am extremely impressed, as you would have a lot of time left on the clock! The team I coach has really struggled with trying to fit all the missions into the 2:30 time limit while keeping the missions as reliable as possible.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    4. Message by: Bremen Botz! 12/11/2003 15:43:21 GMT
      Those are simply robot run times... That leaves about :45 to make arm changes, realign, etc. Unless something really goes haywire, the operators have been finishing with 10-15 seconds left at the end of the run. Our team came up with some really innovative ways to line up the robot. It made it faster to setup, and more consistent in alignment.

      Our website is still showing the 2002 challenge, but after the tournaments, we will post MLCad drawings, RIS source code, and videos of the runs for the 2003 season.

      http://www.bremenrobotics.org
      Login: guest
      Password: guest

      Good luck with the interviews!

      Les Turner
      Bremen Botz! - 195


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/11/2003 17:19:48 GMT
        Thanks for wishing us luck tonight! The team has never tried their line-following programs on any other table, so there could be a lot of mayhem in their first try on a different table!

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    5. Message by: pennichuck864 12/12/2003 16:51:44 GMT
      Ken:

      So how did it go for your team at the thursday competition? I did see that one of the four tables didn't have proper/official lighting. I hope you were not on that table.

      The Pennichuck team were satisfied with their run. They managed to successfully complete all of the missions that were attempted. Now we just wait for that email.

      Good luck.

      Paul


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/12/2003 21:43:36 GMT
        Paul,

        Best of luck to your team, as well! It turns out that the lighting on the table does not affect the Mindstorms Mayhem team robot. Their robot does use line following, but the configuration of the light sensors means that the sensors work equally well in direct sunlight, typical indoor lighting, or even in the dark. (Yes, they've tested that!)

        However, this was the first time that the team ran their robot on a table other than the table where we meet. They weren't prepared for the fact that some of the tables last night were not level. Also, there seems to be a moderate amount of variation in contrast from mat to mat, so their line following routines didn't work as well as they had been at home. Two of their five missions ran into trouble last night. After the qualifier, the team came up with some tweaks that improve the reliability of those two missions. They feel they are ready, and so they are taking tonight off to be well rested for the tournament tomorrow. The robot is incredible to watch on their own table. By God's grace, they have a shot at possibly repeating last year's success on the performance table, but that remains to be seen tomorrow at the NH state tournament! I can assure you that the team will be doing a lot of praying!

        They are eagerly looking forward to the tournament. I sincerely hope that each team will demonstrate their best work tomorrow! From what I saw at the qualifier last night, a lot of teams have worked very hard, and will be competitive in every area. I am certain that a fun time will be had by all in attendance at the state tourney!

        Best wishes for all!

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Michigan State tournament results By: dragondevils119 01/24/2004 06:44:45 GMT
http://eng-sci.udmercy.edu/precol/fll/

  1. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 12/12/2003 01:23:14 GMT
    Congrads to the Dragon Devils. It was nice to see an all girl team win. Second year in a row for you correct?
    Wasn't that the loudest thing you have ever been too?
    We had a great time.


    1. Message by: dragondevils119 12/12/2003 02:52:42 GMT
      Thanks, Robo Rovers! Yes, it was our 2nd time. A very memorable and fun day. Don't know about you but I was in the middle of 8 screaming 13 year old girls. It was loud. A great time was had by all. Hats off to Dan Maggio who put on a fantastic tournament.

      Joe


    2. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 12/12/2003 06:08:45 GMT
      We had 10 kids in 4th, 5th and 6th grades. It was quite exciting. We just have to figure out how to be consistent on our robot runs. In practices we always scored in the upper 300's but couldn't seem to break 200 in the competition. The boys who ran the runs said the noise level was hard for them. I saw some kids with ear plugs. I wish I had thought of that. We did really well in the presentation though. Much quietier I guess.
      Laura


    3. Message by: dragondevils119 01/24/2004 06:44:45 GMT
      The Michigan Lego League Website has posted scoring by categories.
      http://eng-sci.udmercy.edu/precol/fll/2003/Team%20Positions.xls


Discussion: Oregon Results By: Red Planet Gladiators702 01/23/2004 00:10:11 GMT
The results from the Oregon tournaments can be found through this web page: www.ortop.org

By the way, how many teams ended up participating in the US this year? World wide? I don't think I've seen any final tally posted anywhere and I've had quite a few people ask about it.

Discussion: Texas Results By: Club BOB 02/01/2004 08:19:53 GMT
Results from the 2 Texas Competitions.

The North Texas FIRST LEGO League State Tournament was held at the Boys and Girls Club in Grand Prairie, Texas, on December 6, 2003. The following awards were handed out:

Director's Award

Team 223 Lego Squadron Grapvine Area Home School Association

1st Place Performance Award

Team 1852 United Robotics Plano Home School

Performance Award Finalists

Team 359 Lightening Waves Coppell Home School Association
Team 223 Lego Squadron Grapvine Area Home School Association
Team 1620 Eagles Pratt & Whitney

1st Place Research Presentation

Team 1620 Eagles Pratt & Whitney

Research Presentation Finalists

Team 223 Lego Squadron Grapvine Area Home School Association
Team 1852 United Robotics Plano Home School
Team 1056 The Supreme Hacker Parkhill Junior High
Ninja Lords

1st Place Design Award

Team 359 Lightening Waves Coppell Home School Association

Design Award Finalists

Team 1852 United Robotics Plano Home School
Team 1052 The Supreme Hacker Parkhill Junior High
Ninja Lords
Team 1654 Red Raiders TTU Grad Engineering

Teamwork Award

Team 223 Lego Squadron Grapvine Area Home School Association

Spirit Award

Team 1619 Monster's Ink Grand Prairie Boys & Girls Club

Judge's Award

Team 2385 Sunny Side Shrinks Richardson Home School
Association

---------------------------

South Texas FIRST LEGO League Competition results
70 teams met for this event on Dec 6, 2003 at Hogg Middle School, Houston:

Director's Award: 848 - Bay Elementary Eagle Robotics Team

Mentorship Award: Mark Meyers from team 675 - Robo Matrix from Collins Intermediate

Volunteer Award: Annette Sanchez

Robot Performance Award: 848 - Eagle Robotics Team from Bay Elementary
Robot Performance Finalist Award: 675 - Robo Matrix from Collins Intermediate
Robot Performance Final Four Award: 1362 - Extra Technology Robot Performance Final Four Award: 3771 - JHE RoughBots from Pearland Junior High East

Robot Design Award: 633 - American Robotics Academy
Robot Design Finalist Award: 675 - Robo Matrix from Collins Intermediate
Robot Design Finalist Award: 1503 - TEAM ICK
Robot Design Finalist Award: 3576 - San Antonio Robotics

Research Award: 1583 - Clear Creek Independent School District Research Finalist Award: 663 - NERDS Extreme from Clear Creek Independent School District
Research Finalist Award: 1587 - Walter Hall Elementary School
Research Finalist Award: 3576 - San Antonio Robotics

Teamwork Award: 663 - NERDS Extreme from Clear Creek Independent School District
Sportsmanship Award: 2412, 2420, 2421, 2423, 2424, 2444, & 2445 - Hogg Middle School Robotics Teams
Spirit Award: 991 - Pathfinders from Brookwood Elementary School

Judges Award (commitment to robotics education for traveling the furthest): 1730 - RoboRebels & 1731 - Crater Raiders from North Gulfport (Mississippi) Magnet School with honorable mention of 3705 - St. James Science and Math Academy (Greater New Orleans Area)

Discussion: Maryland results posted By: Robomaniacs 02/11/2004 08:48:01 GMT
The results of the Maryland tournament held on January 17, 2004 can be found here : Maryland Results

Discussion: Quinsigamond Community College Tournament Results By: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 02/29/2004 07:30:15 GMT


  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 02/29/2004 06:54:37 GMT
    QCC Tournament Results (1 of 4)

    The 1st Annual Quinsigamond Community College (QCC) FIRST Lego League Tournament took place on Saturday, Feb 28, 2004. The tournament was extremely well staffed by an enthusiastic bunch of well-organized volunteers! After starting the day off behind schedule with a rookie group of FLL tournament workers, the judges and other volunteers actually managed to recover schedule to finish the tournament on time! Plus, they did this while not compromising on giving all of the teams full-length sessions with technical and research judges. I was very impressed!

    There were 19 teams in attendance at the tournament. Each tournament was given their own classroom to use as their "pit area." This was great in that teams could set up a practice mat and/or table, have space to program their robots, practice their research presentation, and gain a little quiet space from the hubbub if needed. However, I did miss having all of the teams in a large pit area where it was easy to have students browse the displays of other teams and have more opportunities to talk with each other! These classrooms were also used for the research presentation judging and the technical judging. (The judges went to the teams, rather than vice versa.) One benefit of the classroom approach was that teams could set up for their presentation in advance of the judges arriving to keep the judging schedule moving smoothly.

    The research judging was conducted by having three different judging panels view research presentations. After all teams were judged, "research finals" were held where the top teams from each panel were judged by a single panel of judges.

    The performance competition used a very unique three-stage format which had a lot of advantages, even though it was initially confusing for participants. (It is even confusing to explain!) The first stage of the performance competition consisted of three rounds on the tables for each team; the second stage was a 6-round triple elimination field-reducer" for ALL teams, and the third stage was a single-elimination tournament for the last 8 teams (quarterfinals, semifinals, finals). (Yes, the finalists had as many as 12 runs on the tournament tables!)

    The highest score by a team from the first stage rounds was used to determine seeding for the second stage (a 6-round triple elimination "field reducer"). This second stage consisted of two "sub-stages." The seeding for the first sub-stage of the triple-elim was done as "power matches." That is, the #1 seed would play against the #2 seed, and so on, all the way down to the 18th seed playing the 19th seed. (Due to the odd number of teams, the top three teams each also had one bye in this sub-stage.) Those teams that won at least one of the three matches in this sub-stage earned entry to the last three rounds of this sub-stage. The last three rounds of the sub-stage used traditional seeding (first vs. last, etc.) As a result of these last three rounds, the field of 19 teams was reduced to just 8 teams that had each lost less than 3 matches in the 6 rounds of the "field-reducing" stage.

    For the final stage of the performance competition, the final 8 teams were in a traditional single-elimination tournament. (Quarterfinals, Semifinals, and Finals.)

    [NOTE: The next three postings in this discussion continue unofficial results from the tournament. The postings are too long to be placed in a single message. If you post a followup, please do so after the last message, to keep this sequence together.]


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 02/29/2004 06:59:00 GMT
      QCC Tournament Results (2 of 4)

      The tournament organizers gave a lot of awards! There were 30 awards given in all; every team received at least one award!

      In sum, the tournament was an exciting event, with some neat innovations in tournament format. The facilities were exceptional, with a nice auditorium, clean classrooms, convenient concessions, 8 tournament tables (4 pairs), and MANY helpful volunteers.

      The tournament organizers definitely deserve many kudos! Congrats to Brad Lauer and the entire tournament staff on putting together a fun tournament where the kids were all treated like royalty!

      I also particularly want to commend the "Frozen Vikings" on their integrity and gracious professionalism. In the first of the "power matches," the Frozen Vikings and my team, Mindstorms Mayhem, both had excellent rounds. However, when the scores were posted from this round, the Frozen Vikings edged out Mindstorms Mayhem 360 to 319. However, the Frozen Vikings realized that the Mayhem table was accidentally mis-scored from the proper score of 362. The Frozen Vikings noticed this, and notified the tournament scorers so that the score would be corrected. In my opinion, this sort of honesty and integrity is to be highly commended! It is not a common occurrence in professional sports to find a declared winner insisting that the score was incorrect and that the win should go to the other team! My vote for the "FLL Values Award" goes to the Frozen Vikings!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 02/29/2004 07:00:46 GMT
      QCC Tournament Results (3 of 4)

      Initial Three Performance Rounds:
      Team         R1   R2   R3   Best
      ======================= === === === ====
      Frozen Vikings 290 327 293 327
      Mindstorms Mayhem 276 268 319 319
      Team 1744 176 205 319 319
      RoboMonkeys 317 256 254 317
      Longmeadow Black Riders 223 291 227 291
      Rust Rovers 271 193 217 271
      NRD 118 246 187 246
      Omega Constant 172 168 223 223
      Mill Pond Vikings 192 54 98 192
      The Matrix 178 129 140 178
      Pleiades 119 177 162 177
      The Flaming Mars 117 66 141 141
      Kwamima 100 113 132 132
      Woot! 67 117 66 117
      Devobot 97 109 109 109
      ALT (Rugrats) 61 98 74 98
      The Dorks 70 39 47 70
      Team 0818 39 39 41 41
      Team 0719 39 39 39 39

      The next 6 rounds were "triple elimination" to reduce the field to 8 quarterfinalists. Many 350+ scores were recorded in these rounds by multiple teams, but I do not have full results from this section of the tournament.

      Quarterfinals:
      ==============
      Team 1744 over NRD
      Mindstorms Mayhem over Flaming Mars
      Frozen Vikings over Pleiades
      Rust Rovers over RoboMonkeys


      Semifinals:
      ===========
      Frozen Vikings over Team 1744
      Mindstorms Mayhem over Rust Rovers


      Finals:
      =======
      Mindstorms Mayhem (400) over Frozen Vikings (343)


    3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 02/29/2004 07:07:33 GMT
      QCC Tournament Results (4 of 4)

      Complete Award Listing:
      =======================

      Director's Award - Mindstorms Mayhem

      Technical Awards:
      1st Place Technical Award (Overall) - Longmeadow Black Riders
      Best Robot Design - Robo Monkeys
      Programming Award - Omega Constant
      Strategy Award - Mindstorms Mayhem

      Research Presentation Awards:
      1st Place Research Award (Overall) - Mindstorms Mayhem
      Creative Presentation - The Pleaides

      Performance Awards:
      1st Place Performance - Mindstorms Mayhem
      2nd Place Performance - Frozen Vikings
      Semi-Finalists:
      Rust Rovers
      Team 1744
      Quarter-Finalists:
      The Flaming Mars
      NRD (The Nerds)
      Pleiades
      RoboMonkeys
      Octa-Finalists:
      ALT
      Devobot
      The Dorks
      Kwamima
      Longmeadow Black Riders
      The Matrix
      Mill Pond Vikings
      Omega Constant
      Woot!

      High Score Award: Mindstorms Mayhem (400)

      Teamwork / FLL Values Awards:
      Teamwork Award -- ALT
      Team Spirit Award -- The Dorks
      Best Effort Award -- Kwamima
      Good Neighbor Award -- Longmeadow Black Riders
      Against All Odds - Devobot

      Most Valuable Players (Outstanding Volunteer Awards)
      Bonnie Logan
      Paul Slukis
      Al Tessier



Folder: Alabama 11/14/2003 02:17:19 GMT


Discussion: Practice Rounds....anyone??? By: Elysium Robotics 11/14/2003 02:17:19 GMT
Is it possible to get together to have a practice match. We are new to this and do not have any idea as of what to expect. None of us have even seen a competition.

Michele

  1. Message by: CraterManiacs450 11/14/2003 02:17:19 GMT
    We're from another state, but we usually get stopwatches and have our own practice rounds. the coach pretends he or she is the referee and has the team practice telling the ref they are ready, listening to the 3-2-1-go, and trying their missions under the time constraints. It is great, and is probably more worth your time to do it this way, because you get a good idea of what missions you will be able to do, and other glitches that might come up. Good Luck!

    Crater Maniacs 450
    Springfield, VA
    Jeannine Burgett- coach


Discussion: Howdy By: roboticmeltdown2998 11/05/2003 21:59:19 GMT
Hey Ya'll, were the black fiddle from Birmingham, Alibama I like down home cookin' from my mom, whose also my girlfriend
pardon,
Stu Pdasso

  1. Message by: Settlers of Mars 1883 11/05/2003 00:11:38 GMT
    Hey, do you know if you can put the sample canister on the rover before you start your missions?


    1. Message by: 11/05/2003 00:16:46 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/05/2003 00:17:52 GMT
      Try reading the messages here:
      http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?13@@.ee95a97

      -Skye


    3. Message by: DupperMcGee3553 11/05/2003 21:59:19 GMT
      If you get someone for a practice round, can we come too?
      We are first timers also & have never seen a competition.
      Thanks!


Discussion: missing piece or backorders???? By: SJS111 11/08/2003 01:51:47 GMT
We have a rotation senser that is on backorder and not supposed to be here until CHRISTMAS!!!! we are supposed to be all done by Dec. 6th (since compition is the next day) and all our formulas are based on wheel turns!! any ideas or new formulas to try....anyone?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/08/2003 01:51:47 GMT
    ebay normaly has rotations sensors available.
    So would www.bricklink.com

    -Skye



Folder: Alaska 12/12/2003 01:19:38 GMT



Folder: Mission strategies 12/02/2003 00:23:07 GMT


Discussion: Dual Habitation module mission By: Ice Dragons 211 10/29/2003 03:08:06 GMT
I think this mission is great, and there is already lots of discussion about it. What do other teams think about it? Should we all plan on making that our first mission? That way, we can all try for those points? Should we try and assemble something that completes it for both teams, but only one has to do it? Let's hear some ideas, because I know our team would like to get that one done early.

  1. Message by: Debugs483 09/17/2003 18:45:38 GMT
    Hey Ice Dragons!

    This mission is stumping everyone on our team as well. We were thinking of pushing up our half of the base, then the other team would deal with the other half. However, the other team might not choose to do that mission, leaving us both in the lurch. Since the lists are printed out early, maybe we should try and find our oppenent, then discuss that mission.

    DeBugs**


    1. Message by: Ice Dragons 211 09/19/2003 22:33:14 GMT
      How can you get your own half to stay up though without the other team pushing up their half? Do you think it's possible to leave a large LEGO piece or something that helps hold it up so that you can go off and do other missions?


    2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/19/2003 22:36:10 GMT
      Consider them your alliance partner not your apponent! Sounds like a plan to me.

      -Skye


    3. Message by: Debugs483 09/20/2003 21:39:03 GMT
      When we built the model, the half that was pushed stayed up... Hmm... I think we need to do some more testing.

      Leaving a Lego brick probably wouldn't work, because the mat is quite slick. A tire perhaps?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/20/2003 21:56:11 GMT
        Triple check your construction! Each side should swing
        freely. The instructions are not suggestions!

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Ice Dragons 211 09/21/2003 22:05:55 GMT
        I like the tire idea. That probably would stay in place. Yeah, double-check your construction, because ours won't stay up unless they are connected with the magnets.


    4. Message by: Debugs483 09/23/2003 06:06:02 GMT
      The side that you push will not stay up when mounted, but on the flat mat, it works like a charm. We only figured this out tonight, much to our chagrin.

      However, if you leave one of the big, flat tires in place, the side will stay up quite nicely. But, it would still be a good idea to check with your opponent before the match to see if the mission will be attempted.


    5. Message by: TananaEagles362 10/27/2003 23:11:06 GMT
      I think that you should leave this mission for last and then collaborate with the other team on it if you both have time.


    6. Message by: TananaEagles362 10/27/2003 23:11:07 GMT
      can you use lego ruberbands?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/27/2003 23:16:59 GMT
        Try reading the section in the FAQ on allowable parts.
        http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq
        Your answer is there along with answer to a bunch of other
        questions you have yet to ask!

        -Skye


    7. Message by: Mechamoose3858 10/29/2003 03:05:29 GMT
      Tires or treads for robots? Please reply.


    8. Message by: Mechamoose3858 10/29/2003 03:08:06 GMT
      How do you change the lego face image next to our name?


Discussion: The Ice Cores By: Martian Bulldogs 201 12/02/2003 00:23:07 GMT
Our team (the Martian Bulldogs) needs a lot of help with this mission. We really need a suggestion for a tool, or an arm, something like that to help us to complete this mission.

  1. Message by: Mechamoose3858 11/05/2003 02:00:40 GMT
    We need help too. I would suggest not using an arm because they fall off really easy. The best thing to do is to be able to get in the crater and pull the ice cores out. If you dont get into the crater, the ice cores have a chance of falling off the arm or crane. If anyone can help, please contact us. *<=-)---<


    1. Message by: Mechamoose3858 11/05/2003 02:05:48 GMT
      My team wants to know if we can take off the ice cores when we're inside the base. If anyone knows, please contact us. *<=-)--<


      1. Message by: cls1820 11/19/2003 21:43:18 GMT
        no


    2. Message by: Mechamoose3858 11/05/2003 03:20:41 GMT
      We need help too. I would suggest not using an arm because they fall off really easy. The best thing to do is to be able to get in the crater and pull the ice cores out. If you dont get into the crater, the ice cores have a chance of falling off the arm or crane. If anyone can help, please contact us. *<=-)---<


    3. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/05/2003 21:53:46 GMT
      we beleave that when you are inside the base you can olter your robot


    4. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/05/2003 21:55:17 GMT
      we beleav you can altter your robot when you enter the base


    5. Message by: Martian Bulldogs 201 11/07/2003 00:54:33 GMT
      When you are in the base, you can take the ice cores off.


    6. Message by: Ice Dragons 211 12/02/2003 00:23:07 GMT
      Yes, once the ice cores are in base you may handle them and remove them from your robot. This is a difficult mission, but it can be completed. My team has been able to successfully return all 3 cores about 80% of the time using a long arm.


Discussion: New year By: Ice Dragons 211 12/12/2003 01:19:38 GMT
Hey all LEGO competitors, we are looking forward to a great year. This is the North Star Elementary Ice Dragons in Anchorage. Let's keep this forum open and discuss everything.

  1. Message by: Debugs483 09/17/2003 18:48:17 GMT
    Hey guys! DeBugs here, out of Anchorage as well. Great to talk to you!

    DeBugs**


    1. Message by: legoator3350 10/29/2003 03:32:39 GMT
      legoators, from Hoonah, are here to DeBug the Ice Dragons


    2. Message by: Robosharks406 11/18/2003 23:04:11 GMT
      Fear the robosharks from NH we will MUUHAHAHAH


    3. Message by: TananaEagles362 12/10/2003 23:29:16 GMT
      we won the alaskan state tournament, where is the national tournament!!!!!!


    4. Message by: 12/12/2003 01:19:38 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: mi happy By: fookmi 11/17/2003 16:48:05 GMT
everyone stinks

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 22:27:15 GMT
    if any one stinks its you.


    1. Message by: blackfirs2 11/17/2003 16:48:05 GMT
      please dont sweare


Discussion: hello By: Ares463 12/03/2003 04:18:14 GMT
Hi' I'm going to live in Alaska when I grow up! Cool isn't it

  1. Message by: Mechamoose3858 12/03/2003 04:18:14 GMT
    wow!



Folder: Arizona 01/08/2004 18:49:53 GMT


Discussion: how do you win By: Debtors2Mercy 01/08/2004 18:49:53 GMT
i need to know how to win
i have no idea how
well
if you can tell me
do so

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/17/2003 21:47:49 GMT
    by writing a research paper


    1. Message by: Debtors2Mercy 11/20/2003 00:34:01 GMT
      we really need to know how to win. our robot isnt even done yet and were three weeks out from the comp.maybe we should stick to acting.


    2. Message by: Debtors2Mercy 11/20/2003 00:35:08 GMT
      hmph. well i wonder. maybe we should use the rcx to build the robot. jk jk


    3. Message by: Debtors2Mercy 11/20/2003 00:37:21 GMT
      hmm. already did that


    4. Message by: ReD_TiTaNs459 01/08/2004 18:49:53 GMT
      Imo chinese-o. I-o live-o in-o Arkansas-o. o-o.



Folder: Arkansas 01/12/2004 16:53:35 GMT



Folder: Thank You! 01/12/2004 16:53:35 GMT
Our hats are off to all of those involved in organizing the FLL competition this last weekend. We had a great time.


Folder: Welcome! 12/12/2003 18:48:18 GMT



Folder: AHGDKH 09/24/2003 21:25:15 GMT
Yo my peeps! Your going down under your krusty toes.

Discussion: Let the games begin! By: HomeIsCool-1160 11/07/2003 03:17:24 GMT
HomeIsCool would like to extend a warm and heartfelt welcome to all of the teams participating in Arkansas in 2003 FLL Competition. May God Bless your efforts at working together to achieve the goals you set for yourself.

  1. Message by: ReD_TiTaNs459 09/09/2003 18:29:47 GMT
    THE ReD_TiTaNs459 IS READY FOR THE CHALLENGE.


    1. Message by: 09/15/2003 18:30:50 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: 09/24/2003 21:19:51 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: 09/24/2003 21:27:49 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: L.G.M.s1276 09/25/2003 21:42:43 GMT
      L.G.M.s online and ready to go out of conway Arkansas!


    5. Message by: ReD_TiTaNs459 09/25/2003 21:50:26 GMT
      Whats L.G.M. stand for?


    6. Message by: L.G.M.s1276 09/30/2003 20:42:07 GMT
      Little Green Men


    7. Message by: ReD_TiTaNs459 10/01/2003 21:22:49 GMT
      That's interesting...


    8. Message by: grobots2590 10/19/2003 02:13:38 GMT
      Do you have any good designs ideas for robots?

      Nick and Matt


    9. Message by: wd40s2305 11/07/2003 03:17:24 GMT
      we are from Mountain Home(where the tournament is being held) and as natives we would like to say we are looking forward to seeing you here



Folder: what happens if a construced building was to be destroyed on accident? 12/09/2003 00:32:34 GMT
Um,yeah.I think that the title explains it all.So,does anyone know what would happen?Would we be able to rebuild that piece?I just want to know.

Discussion: SNOW By: Prideolla 01/09/2004 21:51:50 GMT
Anyone have any brilliant ideas or plans if we get the expected snow?

  1. Message by: Robocats 01/09/2004 20:24:11 GMT
    Was the tournament held on December 13 or rescheduled for threatening weather? If it was rescheduled, what is the new date?


    1. Message by: Clean Up Crew 01/09/2004 21:51:50 GMT
      Rescheduled for Tomorrow!!!


Discussion: Red Titans are waiting for you.... By: ReD_TiTaNs459 01/08/2004 16:58:21 GMT


  1. Message by: ReD_TiTaNs459 01/08/2004 16:57:44 GMT
    Anyone wanna challenge the mighty Titans. Or is your mamma a loser?!


    1. Message by: ReD_TiTaNs459 01/08/2004 16:58:08 GMT
      (No wait, just kidding.)


    2. Message by: ReD_TiTaNs459 01/08/2004 16:58:21 GMT
      cheesey llama



Folder: Atlanta 11/10/2003 23:51:14 GMT
What's up?

Discussion: yall in GA we live near u By: Ares463 11/10/2003 23:51:14 GMT


  1. Message by: Ares463 11/10/2003 23:51:14 GMT
    Send mail to (click on our lego person to find out)



Folder: California 12/09/2003 08:41:08 GMT



Folder: habitation modules 11/18/2003 06:14:29 GMT
hey, whose doing habitation modules?? give us the "schmall schmoes" some help on anything


Folder: State Tournament at LegoLand 12/07/2003 08:33:22 GMT


Discussion: How early do we actually need to be there? By: Red Dragons 1888 12/07/2003 08:33:22 GMT
Well, we're getting ready to go to the LegoLand tournament this Saturday, and are driving down from north of Los Angeles that morning. The schedule we were sent says to register at 8:00. This is our first tournament. Do any other teams know whether we have to be there that early? We'd have to leave at about 6 a.m. to make it, and some are carpooling. I think it says the pits are open at 8:30 and we give our research presentation at about 9:45. How much lead time do we need?

While I'm at it, what do teams usually bring? Legos, laptop, paperwork, and a banner? Wearing team T-shirts if possible? Did I miss anything?

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/03/2003 15:36:26 GMT
    Red Dragons, Below is my "list of things to bring" to the tournament from last year. Our team was still working on their team bulletin board during the tournament, so you may not need things like a printer (for printing photos), however this will give you some more items to consider.

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

    ==========================================================================
    Checklist of items to bring to FLL Tournament:
    * Video and Photography Release Forms, Completed
    * Team Introduction Page (5 copies)
    * Blank team comment forms (5 copies)
    * Heavy-Duty, 3-prong extension cord (15'+), "flagged"
    * multi-outlet power strip (Isobar)
    * Roll of grey duct tape
    * Helper to watch practice table for 30 minutes
    * Team binder
    * Team nametags
    * Team tablecloths
    * Blank paper
    * Laptop, printer
    * Two robots, w/tackle boxes and I/R towers
    * plastic container for carrying robot
    * plastic container for hat/glove storage under table
    * 3.5" floppy disks (2) containing programs
    * Research presentation materials and props
    * Printed rules, team manuals, tournament roster
    * Extra batteries, fully charged
    * Cooler with lunches, soda, snacks
    * Roll of paper towels (for messes)
    * plastic trash bag
    ==========================================================================


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/03/2003 15:52:11 GMT
      What no ICBM?

      Just to add a few things to Ken's great list.
      1) Mat and field pieces (left in car) in case needed.
      2) Clipboard and paper for notes
      3) Stopwatch
      4) Autograph book and gel markers to keep team busy in off time.
      5) Camera to take pictures.
      6) Ear plugs.
      7) Tylenol and/or other favorite medications!

      -Skye


      1. Message by: Red Dragons 1888 12/07/2003 08:33:22 GMT
        Boy, I thought you were kidding about the earplugs!


    2. Message by: boys2551 12/03/2003 22:04:03 GMT
      We are coming from LA too. I have driven to Legoland I would estimate it at 2 1/2 hours.

      I would also like to know the schedule. Where did you find out the research presentations are at 9:45? Is that your specific time or when the judging starts?

      When do they talk to the team about their robot building?

      boys 2551


      1. Message by: Red Dragons 1888 12/03/2003 22:27:45 GMT
        The schedule came with our tickets. I think the presentation time is specific for our team. It doesn't say when robot design is discussed.


Discussion: how do tournaments work in CA? By: LordsOfTheSprings1002 10/14/2003 08:01:31 GMT
Hi---I'm a rookie coach coaching a rookie team in Southern California (Santa Monica) and am wondering how the tournaments work. So far on the tournament list, there are 3-4 smaller tournaments in Northern California, some of which are qualifying tournaments. The only tournament in S. California is the state tournament in Legoland. Is there a qualifying tournament in S. California? Thanks in advance!
Michael Chwe

  1. Message by: LordsOfTheSprings1002 09/18/2003 20:22:58 GMT
    Hi---I found out the answer to my own question---Lynn Crockett at Legoland told me that no qualifying tournaments are necessary to partcipate at the Legoland tournament. You can apply directly for the Legoland tournament starting Oct 6.
    Thanks,
    Michael


    1. Message by: Droid1616 09/19/2003 00:54:25 GMT
      There a a lot of teams that apply to the Legoland tournament. Your team is selected to fill about 35 positions(?) by Lottery.
      Maggie


      1. Message by: boys2551 10/03/2003 21:19:39 GMT
        I was told that it is the first 35 teams that apply are you sure they are admitted by lottery?

        Leslie


    2. Message by: NCaFLL 09/23/2003 20:07:31 GMT
      Northern California teams should read the information at
      http://ncafll.home.comcast.net
      To attend the Northern California tournament on Dec. 7, teams must qualify at at regional. Teams must also apply for the State tournament on the FLL web site(during Oct. 6-17) so we know how many teams are interested in attending the state tournament. Depending on demand, between 20% and 40% of teams will qualify.

      Steve putz


    3. Message by: boys2551 10/03/2003 20:30:20 GMT
      Is Legoland the only So Calif competition?

      Jane


      1. Message by: NCaFLL 10/03/2003 20:54:41 GMT
        There is now a local San Diego competition listed for Dec. 13. However, the Southern California Tournament is not using qualifyiung regionals. For Southern California, you just apply at the FLL site the week of October 6 and they have a lottery to decide who gets to go.

        For Northern California, you also apply the week of October 6 for the State Tournament in San Jose, but you must also attend a regional qualifier.

        http://ncafll.home.comcast.net/


      2. Message by: 10/11/2003 00:08:27 GMT
        Deleted


      3. Message by: MegaBlock Destroyers 1490 10/12/2003 20:04:44 GMT
        11/22/03 Saturday
        Manhattan Beach Middle School, Manhattan Beach
        Local event currently being organized by rookie FLL teams.
        We are planning for 16 teams. 7 teams currently signed up.
        Not officially sanctioned as a regional competition, but at least two spots have been reserved at the LEGOLAND event for winners in two divisions:
        1. Elementary (Grades 5 and below)
        2. Open (Ages 9-14)
        We expect to have TV news and newspaper coverage.
        Contact: LeRoyNelson@earthlink.net

        12/13/03 Saturday
        Cal State University Northridge
        One week AFTER State Tournament at LEGOLAND.
        Contact: wwooten@lausd.k12.ca.us


    4. Message by: Beach Cities 2984 10/14/2003 08:01:31 GMT
      To register for the LA Regional FLL Tournament hosted at Manhattan Beach Middle School send an E-mail to TeamRegistration@elementalmediagroup.com


Discussion: Are there teams in the San Luis Obispo area? By: cutten1882 10/29/2003 02:26:32 GMT
I know someone in San Luis Obispo who has an interest in starting a team next year (i.e. 2004). He would like to view a team in action. If you have a team in the area and are willing to have a visitor for one of your sessions, please let me know.

Thanks

John Galle
Cutten Gearheads, Eureka, CA

  1. Message by: Some Assembly Required 10/02/2003 22:22:43 GMT
    There are two new teams in the area. We're both plodding along. Not really sure what we're doing, but doing none the less. Have your friend mail me and I can arrange something.


    1. Message by: Some Assembly Required 10/02/2003 22:23:51 GMT
      Oops - forgot my email...
      dbillings@atas.k12.ca.us

      Dennis Billings
      Some Assembly Required


    2. Message by: leopards265 10/29/2003 02:26:32 GMT
      if you bring back the ice cores, can you bring them back one at a time, if nessary?


Discussion: FLL teams in Los Angeles area! By: TheWarriors3550 10/14/2003 07:52:54 GMT
I just wanted to know where any other teams in the Los Angeles area are located.

I am coaching two teams in Palos Verdes Estates (although we have students from Rancho Palos Verdes, Rolling Hills Estates, & Torrance too):
1) The Warriors - 3550
2) Pink Fuzzy Bunnies of Doom - 3949

Karlene

  1. Message by: MegaBlock Destroyers 1490 10/11/2003 03:15:09 GMT
    There are at least 5 teams in Manhattan Beach

    3 teams at Pennekamp Elementary (mostly 5th graders)
    Coach: Gail Hayes (Computer Lab Assistant)
    Contact: GHayes@manhattan.k12.ca.us

    1 team representing other elementary schools
    Coaches: Aaron Braskin, Ken Brenan
    Contact: FIRSTLegoLeague@elementalmg.com

    1 team at MB Middle School (mostly 6th graders)
    MegaBlock Destroyers 1490
    Coach: LeRoy Nelson
    Contact: LeRoyNelson@earthlink.net

    There is a team in Redondo Beach at Tulita Elementary.

    There is a team in Hawthorne at an elementary school.


    1. Message by: robotsrule1187 10/12/2003 23:16:25 GMT
      There are also 2 teams in La Canada (5th thru 7th graders).
      robots rule


    2. Message by: Beach Cities 2984 10/14/2003 07:52:54 GMT
      Check the listings, the sign ups for the LA regonal Tournament are now open. Space is limited so sign up soon.

      Ken Brenan
      Tournament Director
      LA.FLL.Info@elementalmediagroup.com


Discussion: San Diego Local Tournament Needs Teams By: Tritons2652 11/05/2003 03:01:04 GMT
The San Diego Local Tournament is in need of 5 more teams to register for the competition on December 13. If your team is interested please email aliewer@ucsd.edu

  1. Message by: lcorbiters3607 11/05/2003 03:00:21 GMT
    Hello, Tritons
    I come in peace.


    1. Message by: lcorbiters3607 11/05/2003 03:01:04 GMT
      have you read pendragon


Discussion: The Ice Cores By: Martian Bulldogs 201 11/21/2003 23:08:31 GMT
Our team (the Martian Bulldogs) really needs a lot of help with this mission. Should we build an arm or something like that?

  1. Message by: lcorbiters3607 11/08/2003 20:25:42 GMT
    yes, use a claw


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 22:03:56 GMT
      yes


    2. Message by: Ares463 11/10/2003 23:32:33 GMT
      can you spell your governers name?


    3. Message by: 11/15/2003 01:04:49 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/15/2003 01:08:28 GMT
      Hay from Canada aye. Hows it going aye.My teams really whipin up some good plans aye.I think we might even win aye.Well I got to go chop some wood and drink some pop aye.I drink almost 8 cases a day aye.
      Im like a camel aye.


    5. Message by: SMMS 11/21/2003 23:08:31 GMT
      For the ice cores you can just use a plain old axell attachment to your robot. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Team SMMS connecticut USA :)


Discussion: worm gear By: schmallschmoes106 11/19/2003 00:35:32 GMT
will a worm gear be helpful for picking up the canister and dropping it in the MAV launcher?

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/18/2003 21:48:49 GMT
    Can you please tell us what is a worm gear is?I am new,so I need to understand this stuff.So please write back


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/19/2003 00:35:32 GMT
      Looks like a section of hotdog with a spiral cut on the
      outside edge. The spiral engages a gear.

      -Skye


Discussion: legoland results wanted By: boys2551 12/09/2003 08:41:08 GMT
Hello, Does anyone know where we can find the final results from the competition. Also we would love to access, via the interned, a tape of that winning table performance. Finally, our team would love some feed back from the judges as to what they found noteworthy about the winners in the various categories. The one judge was very inspirational telling the kids how the winner had found a way to incorporate each of the allowed sensors.

We had so much fun and learned so much we are ready to sign up again for next year.

Sputnik

  1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 12/08/2003 21:44:36 GMT
    Do you know what the high score was? Our state tournament is in a week and we are trying to figure out what scores have to be to place well...

    Thanks,
    Les Turner
    Bremen Botz! - 195


    1. Message by: boys2551 12/08/2003 23:22:15 GMT
      The high score was 364. But don't be to worried the next highest was 260 I think.

      I that is why I want to see a tape. I want to know how they did it. It was an incredible team all their scores were very high. I would like to show my kids what can be done.

      I foudn some wisconson results in the main forum if you poke around.

      sputnik


    2. Message by: MegaBlock Destroyers 1490 12/09/2003 08:41:08 GMT
      I attached the final scores from the LEGOLAND tournament.


Discussion: For furture practice By: Placerita 12/08/2003 18:34:23 GMT
Now that Legoland has finished, we are looking at what we can do to prepare for next year. One suggestion was to get previous year mats and run school competitions.

Does anyone know where I could get challenge mats and sets for previous years.

  1. Message by: Red Dragons 1888 12/08/2003 18:34:23 GMT
    I saw one on eBay once



Folder: Changing Pieces 01/03/2004 02:37:07 GMT
Can we change parts of the robot between each missions?

Thanks for your help



Folder: Colorado 11/12/2003 00:21:12 GMT


Discussion: MAV Launcher By: Martian Bulldogs 201 11/12/2003 00:21:12 GMT
Our team(Martian Bulldogs)need help launching the sample canister. Does any team have any ideas?

  1. Message by: ColoradoFLL7001 11/07/2003 19:04:35 GMT
    In the Mindstorms for Schools book there is a robot that has many attachments. One attachment is an arm that can launch ping pong balls. This might be a good start.
    ~Jenny


    1. Message by: Marskateers 11/07/2003 19:26:53 GMT
      Does anyone know whether you simply run into the MAV launcher with your robot to launch it?

      Also, do you have to place the canister with the ball into the MAV launcher.


    2. Message by: AMS Express 94 11/12/2003 00:21:12 GMT
      Marskateenrs yes you can run into the launcher to launcher but it is a good idea to not move the launcher from it's asingned place.


Discussion: Colorado State Tournament By: ColoradoFLL7001 11/07/2003 19:02:58 GMT
The first ever Colorado State Tournament will be on December 6 in Golden, Colorado. For more information go to
www.coloradofirst.org/all/register/.

  1. Message by: ColoradoFLL7001 11/07/2003 19:02:58 GMT
    Sorry go to:
    http://www.coloradofirst.org/fll/register/
    to register.



Folder: commnications 10/15/2003 21:39:56 GMT
Would anyone know about a good website that has some info about communications on Mars?

Discussion: Curiosity By: Tekno Devils40 10/15/2003 21:39:56 GMT
Are we talking voice, data or both?
Are we talking to and from Earth or just on the surface?

I do know that the last mission to Mars used 'off the shelf'
Motorola wireless modems to talk from the lander to the rover.
Not sure where I learned this. Goodness knows what they used
to talk back home.

For Earth to Mars, NASA uses the Deep Space Network. Three
clusters of high gain antenaes around the world. You can find
them using "DSN NASA" from google or yahoo.

-Skye Sweeney


Folder: Connecticut 01/20/2004 17:11:38 GMT



Folder: New Tournament Listing 01/20/2004 17:11:38 GMT
We are holding an end of the year tournament at Quinsigamond Community College in Worcester, Mass! We wanted to invite the teams from Connecticut that we haven't seen much of all year to participate. The tournament will be held on February 28th, if you are interested, please contact Betty at blauer@qcc.mass.edu

Discussion: About our CT team By: Homeschool2568 11/10/2003 15:13:50 GMT
Hello from Groton, CT. I see 10 other teams listed so far for CT. Hope to get to know you. We are a team of 8 homeschooled kids, new to First Lego League. Some of the kids have older siblings who have participated in First Robotics. We are excited to be involved.

  1. Message by: andover722 09/30/2003 03:08:30 GMT
    hello from Andover, Ct. We are new this year also. The leader's children have been involved with the FIRST Robotics and that's why I have brought it to Andover. You will be wonderfully surprised!!! Ask a couple of the robotics kids to help you!!!


    1. Message by: RoboLeopards5 10/08/2003 01:05:57 GMT
      Welcome aboard from team 5. This our second year


    2. Message by: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:18:19 GMT
      Hi! This is Alex of the robotic 10 from WMS in woodbury. we've made some progress on our robot but our mat has not come in yet so we can't build our attachments yet. We built a sweet half-track, but unfortunately if we used it, we wouldn't have enough motors for attachments! I was wondering what some of the other designs were that people were using.


    3. Message by: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:24:36 GMT
      what are treres


    4. Message by: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:27:08 GMT
      If anyone knows what treeds are please tell us.


    5. Message by: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:27:56 GMT
      Hi! This is Brendan from the Robotic Ten Team. We are from the Woodbury. Middle School in Woodbury., Conneticut. I am a programmer and I was on the Robotic Ten team last year. We haven't gotten our mat yet so no one has started building or programming. I hope we do well this year.


    6. Message by: LARRI3001 10/16/2003 01:27:45 GMT
      Hi! LARRI 3001 here from South Meriden. We're a mixed group 5th, 6th, 7th graders from a neighborhood association. We're in our second year. Last year we scored a first in teamwork at the CT tournament. Good Luck to everyone. Does anyone know how many teams tried to register for the CT tournament this year? Last year there were over 100 teams trying for only 50 slots. Does anyone know of any if there will be any qualifiers this year?


    7. Message by: LARRI3001 10/16/2003 01:46:22 GMT
      On your half track, have you tried using the differential to drive both tracks with only one motor. That will allow one motor for steering and one left for attachments.


      1. Message by: SMMS 10/24/2003 23:35:15 GMT
        Hi LARRI3001 my team talked to you and competed with you last year. We are team SMART. Do you remember? We should talk on the forum again. :)

        Team SMMS (SMART) Connecticut USA


    8. Message by: SMMS 10/24/2003 23:06:27 GMT
      Hi! we are SMMS if you have any advice on research tell us!!!!!!!!!!!


    9. Message by: craterraiders275 10/29/2003 22:38:51 GMT
      hi how is every one doing?? any one have the name crater raiders??


    10. Message by: LARRI3001 11/05/2003 02:38:58 GMT
      Hi SMMS, Glad to see you're back again. We'll see you at the state tournament. Try going to any of the NASA sites. There is a ton of stuff out there. If we find any more good sites we'll let you know.

      Team LARRI3001 - A LEGO ODYSSEY Connecticut, USA


      1. Message by: 11/07/2003 23:50:08 GMT
        Deleted


    11. Message by: SMMS 11/10/2003 15:13:50 GMT
      Good Luck, we hope we see you there, and we'll update you too.

      :) ;)


Discussion: building By: RoboticTen390 10/29/2003 21:39:30 GMT


  1. Message by: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:15:06 GMT
    which are faster wheels or treeds


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/08/2003 21:22:10 GMT
      RoboticTen390:

      Ultimately, the speed of the robot depends up on how the drive mechanism (wheels, treads, or whatever) is connected to the motors. The speed of the robot varies according to the size of the wheels, the size of the treads, and the gearing between the final drive (wheels or treads) and the motors.

      Without any other gearing, if the motors are connected directly to the drive axle, the larger diameter final drive will go faster, but with less power.

      With gearing, the maximum speed of the robot can be further adjusted. "Gearing up" can increase speed by giving up some power. "Gearing down" can increase power by giving up some speed. Choosing the appropriate speed/power combination for their robot is one of the decisions a team needs to make. The right answer really depends upon the team's strategy.

      That said, there isn't really a simple answer to the "Which are faster, wheels or treads?" question. Either can be made to be faster, or slower, depending on the choice of wheels, the choice of treads, and the choice of gearing between the motor and the final drive.

      For more information, see some of the excellent online resources on building FLL robots. Links to a few such resources can be found at http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net I would particularly suggest looking at the links for the "FLL FAQ" (Frequently Asked Questions) and the "Building Lego Robots for First Lego League".

      I wish your team the best! Have Fun!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    2. Message by: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:22:55 GMT
      How is your robot coming?


    3. Message by: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:22:59 GMT
      what the heck are treeds?


      1. Message by: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:25:34 GMT
        I don't know check your spelling


    4. Message by: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:27:44 GMT
      treeds sound like trees so i think wheels would be faster than trees, theres your answer!


    5. Message by: LARRI3001 10/16/2003 01:42:25 GMT
      Speed also affects accuracy, if you're not using brake commands, as the robot will coast quite a bit after power is cut to the motors. Regardless of design, a more important characteristic to consider is robot "drift". How far off course does the robot drift to either side when a straight command is run for a distance across the field. this needs to be taken into account when navigating the field. Slower speeds will deliver more torque, too. If you haven't tried to get your robot into the crater yet, that's the best test on the field this year for the speed to power ratio. Several of our initial drive train designs failed to get into the crater reliably. Good Luck!

      Art Dutra - Coach


    6. Message by: SMMS 10/29/2003 21:39:30 GMT
      Hi LARRI3001. We are Team SMART from last year. I hope we can talk again.

      Team SMMS Connecticut USA :) ;)


Discussion: building By: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:27:39 GMT
whAT ARE TREEESSEE

Discussion: hi we are a connecticut team too By: SMMS 12/11/2003 23:06:13 GMT
lets talk and share information. :)

  1. Message by: Elkhorn Eliminators742 11/11/2003 00:00:04 GMT
    Hey, I'm on the Elkhorn Eliminators. I'm 11 years old and a girl? Hows your reasearch mission?


    1. Message by: SMMS 11/14/2003 01:36:57 GMT
      Our teams's mission is great. Is your team in the compettion? I my team sees yours there. Good Luck. :) ;)

      Team SMS Connecticut USA


    2. Message by: legogangstaz2617 12/11/2003 23:05:05 GMT
      hey we are the legogangstaz2617 and we are here to let yo know that Harriet/ bob our bot is gonna win


    3. Message by: legogangstaz2617 12/11/2003 23:06:03 GMT
      hola wanna chat
      we wish to the best to those whom we will demolish
      ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


    4. Message by: legogangstaz2617 12/11/2003 23:06:13 GMT
      hey we are the legogangstaz2617 and we are here to let yo know that Harriet/ bob our bot is gonna win


Discussion: How far is everyone coming? By: Legomen2 11/05/2003 21:49:51 GMT
Just wondering. About what percentage of the way through are you. I would say we are about 60-75% done. Most of our programing is done, but there are still some problems with the robot.

Also, are you using wheels are treads this year (I personnally prefer treads, because they are usually more accurate. But they have more problems than wheels).

  1. Message by: SMMS 10/29/2003 21:38:06 GMT
    Our team is doing pretty well too. Lets talk more.

    Team SMMS Connecticut USA :)


    1. Message by: Reid Robotics 11/03/2003 17:20:45 GMT
      hgtkbloivhncgop[hkb,cgpo0khcfoimjy9pigocjvbkgfklvgkgoidrijkglftjd49pgjmtfiujgdorxid8fytg8relmhnhgfgbfjumnfgliugfdsfmsfdiOreoirgtjmgnfjjikmgnjfsdjuyhfujhidrffg,gmjuufj8uigdomgfmnfsdouygjimthpeuifouigmndffg]yttrkif
      []'[dsffguijomkgfop[i,kbcoigmjrgjgtgjuigrrgtuyntgrujgtrijumgtrmnjuiggfjfgklmlmkcxvmfloxfiomgbfvmjoijuimrgtujmigfbjmibvm klgfoufcvoigfujimkgfrmjkigjmiugfiuhfigjbvkmbvmkgf vbygh vngcxdcvmnm,mmngfccxvbmnm,mmnbvccvjumn nymjhb,khkhjhl,,go;i646u58tudtfgklgcjg95etjyoihgfkgho'cpk,gbopcfijkgh0[tfkghopgijgh9ib n,kl;hmjnxiocpivfjmgbkldfjgokmglknmghnhgmih[iojkhfpomjgpoitjhpmoghimhjopifrjhmoidfjmhpofijghp[ojhnmbv g.lhkhopifgtophikhhkfhipjhv,opuyho;milvgc jvhmolmk ghmughiujytfiopu


    2. Message by: LARRI3001 11/05/2003 02:46:24 GMT
      Hi Legomen and SMMS,

      We're trying to get our last program worked out. The hab modules, but trying to push them out of base is causing a lot of drift. Everything else seems to be OK with the robot and the programming. We've learned a lot since last year about good robot design. We're just getting started on our research project. We've picked our project and doing research now.

      Good Luck,

      Team LARRI3001 - A LEGO ODYSSEY


      1. Message by: SMMS 11/05/2003 21:49:51 GMT
        We are doing well too. Our team are doing well with the missions and almost half done with the reaserch. Can't wait to see you guys again. Good Luck!

        Team SMMS Connecticut USA :) ;)



Folder: dhms questions 11/28/2003 15:19:39 GMT


Discussion: ice core By: dh falcons 11/25/2003 20:59:01 GMT
what are you doing for the ice core?

Discussion: hi what is the best way to build attachments for the ice cores By: dh falcons 11/28/2003 15:19:39 GMT


  1. Message by: dh falcons 11/25/2003 21:09:23 GMT
    what is the best way to build attachments


    1. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 11/28/2003 15:19:39 GMT
      Have you ever heard of originality? try it for yourself.



Folder: Equipment Questions 01/22/2004 21:35:15 GMT
Use this folder to discuss, comment or ask questions about motors, sensors, etc. here.


Folder: lubrication of lego parts 11/25/2003 16:26:59 GMT
Are we allowed to use any kind of lubricant on the lego pieces to decrease wear and tear on the plastic parts, like graphite or silicone spray? I'm trying to avoid the dreaded white dust syndrome.

Discussion: The rules forbid it. By: Tekno Devils40 11/25/2003 16:26:59 GMT
Check the rules. They specificaly forbid lubricants.

-Skye

Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: Tekno Devils40 11/25/2003 01:44:24 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
year's rule changes.

The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the FAQ at:

http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

Skye Sweeney
fll-freak@comcast.net

  1. Message by: MississaugaAstronomicalRoboticScientists 10/20/2003 23:35:18 GMT
    Can we chose which oder we do the tasks in?


    1. Message by: harris-194 10/20/2003 23:46:14 GMT
      Sounds like this might be new to you. I highly recommend that you read the rules (in particular #13)( http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11250 ), the official Q&A ( http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11360 ) and the Unofficial FLL FAQ ( http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq )
      These will answer this question and probably a bunch you haven't thought of yet.

      Courtney
      Harris-194


    2. Message by: MississaugaAstronomicalRoboticScientists 10/20/2003 23:48:24 GMT
      Thank you Courtney Harris-194


      1. Message by: TheBobs 11/25/2003 01:34:21 GMT
        in the robotics,are you allowed to tape down the obsticles?
        if you are what ones can you tape down and what ones can you not tape down?


      2. Message by: TheBobs 11/25/2003 01:35:57 GMT
        in the robotics, are you allowed to tape down the obsticles? If you are what ones can you tape down and what ones can not be taped down?


    3. Message by: TheBobs 11/25/2003 01:21:37 GMT
      In the robotics team are you allowed to tape down the obsticles? If you are allowed to what ones can you tape down and which ones can't you tape down?


    4. Message by: harris-194 11/25/2003 01:44:24 GMT
      Please review the instructions for what field model pieces need to be attached to the mat (using included dual-lock). You can find these instructions here: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11380

      Courtney
      Harris-194


Discussion: Light Sensors under Robolab 2.5 By: Americium1955 10/08/2003 21:23:19 GMT
We downloaded Robolab 2.5 firmware to the RCX. I attached a light sensor to show the kids how the view button works and how the light sensor readings vary over a white background and a black background. Under Robolab 2.0 the readings would be something like 72 and 42. The readings today were over 500 and made no sense. I haven't had time to investigate, but thought I would try the forum for any ideas. These are brand new kits we received last week.

  1. Message by: Americium1955 09/09/2003 07:39:14 GMT
    Just read the unofficial site and found that perhaps a simple program will make it work. This will most likely fix my mistake.


    1. Message by: Americium1955 09/11/2003 04:38:49 GMT
      Running the basic line following program had the light sensor working fine. The kids quickly had the robot following a circular track.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/11/2003 17:55:37 GMT
        Have you tried your line follower on the new mat?

        -Skye Sweeney


        1. Message by: Rusty Engineers 09/13/2003 19:30:55 GMT
          We tried it but so far the sensor has had a difficult time because the dark red is so close to the black in readings.
          Plus there are so many other fine black lines everywhere.
          Have you had any luck?


      2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/13/2003 15:27:18 GMT
        How about an explanation of your team name!
        I know that Americium is a radioactive element,
        but what does the 1955 refer to? Is that your
        team number?

        -Skye "Likes fun team names" Sweeney


        1. Message by: Americium1955 09/15/2003 08:03:29 GMT
          We are a new college prep charter school in Scottsdale, Arizona. Americium is the name of our 6th Preparatory Class (5th grade). 1955 is our team name, as per the instructions on the web site for registering on the forum. We have three teams and are thinking to expand to six. The kids haven't picked out their own team names, so I just used their class names.


    2. Message by: team 78 09/13/2003 02:00:43 GMT
      Hey Mr. Sweeney, I think I know where you're going with this!

      P.S. We tried this.

      Team 78 (No team name yet)
      Burleigh Elementary
      Brookfield Wis.


    3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/13/2003 14:52:01 GMT
      Team 78 -- It's great to hear that you tried the line
      following on the Mission Mars playing field! Well, how
      did your experiment turn out? Is line following too
      difficult to be worth it? Possible, but requiring a
      total rewrite? Not too bad, with some tweaking to
      your programs? Or is it a walk in the park?

      -- Ken Streeter
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem, Team #63

      PS: We haven't tried it yet...


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/13/2003 15:29:26 GMT
        Boy do I fell left out! Our team has yet to meet.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: craterkids 09/15/2003 08:44:49 GMT
        We did some experiments today with two different line following programs we have. The first is a simple program that uses a single light sensor. The algorithm is very similar to one I've seen other teams use (a light sensor loop in Robolab that uses a fixed value that is the average of the light and dark readings to determine whether to go left or right). This program is a "tail wagger" that makes progress but can be a bit slow.

        We have another program that uses two light sensors and dynamically adjusts values as it runs. It is more sophisticated (especially if measured in the number of Robolab blocks required!) and interestingly enough this one had trouble on a couple of the lines. On most lines it did well enough although we did see it stray off the line a few times before "refinding" it. Overall this program results in a faster robot (less time required to follow a line) but the accuracy is such that we may have to rethink the dynamic part of it. The crater shadows are sometimes big enough to throw it off.

        I hope that's helpful to some and not *too* helpful to others. ;-)

        Happy line following on Mars!

        =Steve
        Coach of team 636
        Hacienda Crater Kids


        1. Message by: RobotScouts2595 09/30/2003 23:03:07 GMT
          hey,I think that those programs are bound to make your robot follow the lines and do the right things and win some points for its action we hope that the pro ject that we are doing will eventually turn up in the mail i hope to also be wroking on programs to help our robot follow the lines


    4. Message by: Ockerman Titans2021 09/15/2003 01:51:48 GMT
      We dont even have our map yet!


    5. Message by: Americium1955 09/15/2003 08:06:48 GMT
      We haven't received the new mats yet. So I don't know how line following will work. I have rookie teams from Arizona, but I coached in Pennsylvania the last two years. In PA neither our team or the best performing teams used much line following anyway.


      1. Message by: craterkids 09/15/2003 08:52:24 GMT
        I agree that line following is not needed a lot, but in the robots I saw last year line following was almost always something that was selectively used at key points in the challenge. It is therefore certainly worth spending time on. After the line following tests we did today (see my other post) I'm thinking that a simplified form of line "following" might be the way to go. More tests are needed.


    6. Message by: Salt&Light Robotics 09/16/2003 01:39:13 GMT
      We played around with line following a little today. We found it real hard to get consistent runs. Just not enough contrast. We will work on it some more.


      1. Message by: R2D2Firedroids 09/17/2003 13:45:33 GMT
        The RIS kits come with a light. Will using the light add contrast and enhance the line following result? Is your program sensitive enough to detect a line as it crosses perpendicularly? Then store that "crossing" and use it to know when to turn, pivot, etc.
        Our team has just received our mat and it is quite dark. One may need to reproduce the tournament conditions with overhead florescent lights as you practice.
        Dr. Paul of the R2D2 Firedroids


    7. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/16/2003 03:36:57 GMT
      What algorithm are you using? Where is the sensor in
      relation to the mat? Is it shielded from ambient light?

      -Skye "Still struggling to find a meeting place" Sweeney


    8. Message by: team 78 09/17/2003 20:37:56 GMT
      Ken and Syke (and all),
      We are a rookie team (#78) of 10 year olds (8 boys, 1 girl) and have not found the "secret formula" to make the light sensor reliably stay on or "count" the large Black lines (let alone the small ones!) yet. Tried to shield it, but still had trouble. Also, to those who do not have their mats yet, the mat has large black running across. Therefore, no path to each "target".
      I'm using the approach of KISS with this team for obvious reasons. I still want the kids to explore this as it may be advantagious (as previously mentioned)to use once near the "target".
      I'm very fortunate to have the school that gives me excellent support in providing a room, LCD Projector and Storage of the table. And a PTO that has allocated $800.00 to run this team!!!
      Last thing (then I'll stop);
      I built the table so it folds in half, so its' easier to transport and is lighter than using 2x4's. It's very straight too, which was a concern.
      Terry Secora
      Team 78
      Burleigh Elem
      Brookfield, Wis.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/18/2003 04:33:44 GMT
        Terry,

        There may not be a magic solution. The contrast will be
        somewhat less, but should be enough to at least sense if
        not follow a line. Read the section on the light sensor in
        the "Building LEGO robots for FLL" masterpiece. You can
        find a link to it at http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net
        Understanding the sensor in detail may be very valuable.

        For a novice team what I am about to suggest is too
        difficult. But a light sensor can be used in a "powered
        raw" mode under RoboLab. In this mode, the sensor will not
        read percent, but rather analog-to-digital counts. In this
        mode the sensor is no more sensitive, but will give results
        that are between percents. This might give you a little
        more dynamic range.

        KISS is good. A supportive PTO is good. I too built a table
        that folds.

        -Skye "Have not tried our mat yet" Sweeney


        1. Message by: craterkids 09/20/2003 08:22:27 GMT
          Has anyone tried using the investigator mode in Robolob to monitor values of the light sensor as it navigates around the 2003 mat? I'd be interested in hearing any comments on this idea. If I can figure how to get it to work perhaps I can post some observations.


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/20/2003 14:50:38 GMT
            Do you mean the Interrogate Mode?
            It is actually quite simple to use. You simply bring
            up the window and select from the various controls
            what you want to monitor. The PC then sends out a query
            to the RCX and the RCX replies. You can do this while your
            program is running. Of course there are some issues.

            1) All this query/response takes time away from running
            your program. Your program will behave a bit differently.

            2) The query/response only happens about every 3 seconds.
            Lots of detail is lost.

            3) The tower must be visible to the RCX at all times.

            Now I guess I will share my ultimate secret weapon. My team
            uses this feature not to monitor, but to control the RCX
            during testing. We use it to adjust all the magic values
            in a program. You will notice that not only can you read
            the values of a container, but you can set its value as
            well. We replace a constant in the program with a container,
            and download the program. We then run the program and use
            the control to adjust the value. Since we do not have to
            re-download the program, we can find the magic number fast.
            Then we replace the container with the constant and move on
            to the next constant.

            This message will now self-destruct....

            -Skye


            1. Message by: craterkids 09/20/2003 20:24:02 GMT
              Skye,

              Thanks for the "secret weapon". A brief philosphical aside (skip to the next paragraph if you're not interested in reading this). I've discovered that there are primarily two camps in the FLL space: those who like to share ideas and information and those who prefer to closely guard everything about their designs, etc. I found the former camp helps the kids more and in the end that's why we're all doing this, right? :-)

              Back to my original question - in my version of Robolab (2.5.3) there are three buttons that appear on the first startup screen: Administrator, Programmer and Investigator. My limited understanding of the last is that you can have your program collect data while it runs, download the data to your computer afterwards and analyze it. I think this might be useful in getting a better idea about what your robot is actually "seeing" and "thinking" while it runs its programs. I'm planning to dig into this a bit to see if it would be an appropriate tool for our team. I'm also planning to try your technique. Our kids are familiar with using containers so that will be a useful thing for them to try.

              Thanks again,

              Steve


              1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/20/2003 20:52:21 GMT
                You are trully interested in Investigator. Investigator
                does allow you to collect data and store it to the datalog
                and review the data latter. Good luck. I played with it for
                a while but did not think it was worth digging into. The
                first year, it was a matter of teaching basics, the second,
                a matter of building a sub-vi library, and this year...
                Well this year we are thinking of something VERY different!
                I like to share, but after the season!

                -Skye


              2. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 09/29/2003 00:11:19 GMT
                I've discovered that there are primarily two camps in the FLL space: those who like to share ideas and information and those who prefer to closely guard everything about their designs, etc. I found the former camp helps the kids more and in the end that's why we're all doing this, right? :-)

                Not entirely. Yes, FLL is ultimately about learning, but it's also a competition. It's the competition aspect that gets the kids interested and keeps the focused, so it has a purpose in enhancing learning.

                I don't mind sharing information about logistics, rules, how to use the software, etc. However, I wish people would NOT discuss their private strategies for accomplishing missions, special programming tricks, etc. In other words, everyone should have the same basic information input (level playing field), but should be on their own when it comes to clever ideas about how to use that information (the competition part).

                One of the great experiences for the kids is to go to a tournament and see all the completely different solutions to the same problems. Many of them will be solutions they didn't think of. Others will be solutions they did think of but rejected, but maybe with a new wrinkle that makes them workable. Yet others were rejected for good reason (yes there are an amazing percentage of totally clueless teams at tournaments).

                Please don't spoil this by talking about your clever solution, and I promise I won't talk about ours.


          2. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 09/28/2003 23:58:55 GMT
            I haven't played with the investigator mode. But, you can use the VIEW button to display the light sensor values on the RCX LCD and see the readings in real time.


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/18/2003 18:02:20 GMT
        Terry,

        I think your team is on the right track with respect to
        using the light sensor with this year's mat. Having the
        robot keep track of its location is a key to reliability.
        Doing this with feedback from the playing field (bumping
        into things, light, touch) is essential for precision at
        the far end of the table.

        Those big black lines on the 2003 mat have got to be useful
        for this somehow. However, last year, lines could simply
        be followed to most of the mission models. This year there
        aren't such nice roads leading right where you want to be!
        Our team hasn't even tried any line following on the new
        mat yet, although I'm sure that they'll make use of the
        light sensor and those black lines somehow.

        KISS is also a key to reliability!

        I wish you the best!

        --Ken Streeter
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    9. Message by: team 78 09/18/2003 18:14:42 GMT
      Sky,
      Thanks for the valuable information! You have a great web site and I appreciate your sharing your experiences.
      Also, on another subject, I plan on using IS, instead of ROBOLAB, because it seems to be more intuitive and easier to use. I opened up ROBOLAB and could not find an easy way to get it into the "click and drop" mode for moving the blocks around that is like IS. I know ROBOLAB is more powerful and flexible but I think my team will get frustrated with it. Is this a good plan or I am missing a good opportunity to go with ROBOLAB?
      My plan is to continue to go through the tutorial(in IS) using the Acrobat sample. Once completed, I want the kids to work in pairs on the an individual mission item of their choice. I also want 2 kids to work on navigation and programming to get the 'bot to and from the BASE and or Crater.
      I tried having the kids build the Acrobot and found it difficult with 9 kids, so my son built it, so we get learn thru the tutorial, not just spending time building it. They all have Basic LEGO building experience, anyway.
      With all of your experience, does this make since?
      Thanks for your feedback and help,
      Terry Secora
      Burleigh Elem.


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/18/2003 18:29:36 GMT
        Terry,

        The decision between RIS and Robolab is a tough one.
        There are pros and cons to each. Skye's Coaches Handbook
        (see his website at http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net )
        has a bit of a discussion on this. There are also more
        considerations in the FAQ (also at Skye's site.)

        A maximum-score robot can be built using either RIS or
        Robolab. I think last year's top-scoring teams are
        proof of this once again.

        That said, I'll give our team's experience:

        We used Robolab in our programming. We started out using
        RIS at the beginning of the season until the kids
        understood the basics of making a robot move about
        with "timed" usage of motors. My assistant coach
        and I then had differing opinions about whether to use
        RIS or Robolab.

        I wanted to stick with RIS, as it is easier for the kids
        to learn, is much less frustrating with things like wiring,
        and is basically a better user interface. My assistant
        coach wanted to go with Robolab, as it is much better with
        "code reuse" with sub-vis, and has advanced features that
        are lacking in RIS. My assistant coach finally convinced
        me to have the team use Robolab. Looking back on that
        decision, it was one of the best choices we made all
        season. The ability to use sub-vis and have the kids draw
        their own icons for them is a complex idea at first, but
        makes it much easier to reuse little pieces of code.
        (Pieces of code like "turn right 180" or "go straight N
        rotations" or "veer right until dark" or "follow right edge
        of curvy line"...) Being able to program in these
        bigger "building blocks" that are debugged and work
        reliably is essential for having enough time to tackle the
        tricky missions.

        Admittedly, these reusable blocks can be used in RIS
        through "My Blocks," but there are some annoying quirks
        about "My Blocks", particularly with regard to updating
        them after they are already being used in multiple
        missions, that make the Robolab ones preferable in my
        opinion.

        What really matters is picking what works best for your
        kids. With elementary age students (rather than Jr. High)
        RIS has some distinct advantages, since the benefits of
        an easier GUI may be more significant at that age than
        the benefits of Robolab's more advanced features, which
        probably would just be confusing with that age group.

        Another option is let the kids try each, and see what
        they decide. (We tried both with our kids last year,
        and it helped muddy the issue -- they saw the benefits
        of each and the drawbacks, and were on the fence, too!)

        --Ken Streeter
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


        1. Message by: craterkids 09/20/2003 08:36:06 GMT
          Ken,

          Excellent summary of the pros and cons of RIS vs. Robolab. I'll chime in with my two cents. Last year I coached a rookie team and we used RIS because it was all I had time to learn well enough to help the kids come up with solutions to the problems that inevitably arise. We encountered the quirky MyBlocks problem and I got fairly good at parsing and correcting Mindscripts code. This is not a technique I found particularly useful so this past summer I took the time to learn Robolab and our team has switched to that this year.

          The learning curve for Robolab is a little steeper but once you get the basic idea it is not that much more difficult. I was quite pleased to see how quickly the kids picked it up this year. I'm sticking with Robolab for good now.

          One interesting thing I learned about Robolab on Skye's site: the SubVIs are like macros and therefore don't give you any code size benefits - only subroutines do, which are not as nice for making your programs more readable. Our team has written several SubVIs and created custom icons for them. This makes the program tremendously more readable and for many of our sub-programs they only exist once in a larger program so the macro expansion problem isn't really an issue.

          Lastly I'd like to second the "any team can do well with either RIS or Robolab" comment. Our team finished in the top one-third of teams last year, which for a rookie team of only fourth graders pleased me to no end. We're hoping for an even better placement this year but it will be more due to experience than using Robolab over RIS.

          Best of luck,

          Steve


      2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/18/2003 19:00:28 GMT
        Thanks for the pat on the back.

        I like Ken's answer to your question. RIS or RoboLab is not normaly a simple choice. For me
        it was as the school uses NT computers and RIS will not run on NT. (LEGO are you listening?).

        Having used them both, I personaly would not use RIS. My team is older and the extras in
        RoboLab are just tooooo intoxicating.

        For a novice team, your biggest problem will simply be teaching complex programming skills.
        Use what YOU are confortable with. If RoboLab's GUI scares you, by all mean use RIS. After
        the season, consider trying out both. Perhaps even re-write your mission code in RoboLab.
        Then you can make a good decision for next season (you are comming back right?).

        If you want to try RoboLab but are still lost, contact me at fll-freak@comcast.net I can try
        to talk you through the learning curve. Or better yet, let the kids play with it an teach you!

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 09/28/2003 23:55:46 GMT
          I've been watching you guys debate RIS versus RoboLab, and think I should point out a third option. It's not obvious from the rules unless you're very familiar with Lego software, but you can write code directly in MindScript. Two years ago, MindScript was specifically mentioned as an allowed language. Last year this mention dissappeard, but Scott Evans eventually clarified that MindScript is an integral part of RIS, and is therefore an allowed language.

          Our first year, we used RoboLab because I wasn't aware of what MindScript was and RoboLab had some important concepts like subroutines. We won the Rhode Island first place performance award that year.

          Last year (our second year) we switched to MindScript and did reasonably well in the MA state tournament and also won the software award. The kids weren't too thrilled to learn a new language at first. They moaned and groaned a bit, but now admit that it's easier to get things done in MindScript and wouldn't want to switch back to RoboLab. You spend a lot less time fighting the language and the limitations of the GUI than you do with RIS or RoboLab.

          We're looking forward this year to having a bunch of existing code and a basic robot in place so we can concentrate on the missions.

          One note of warning, however. Don't try MindScript unless you or someone on your team is a professional programmer. The language itself is easy, but the compiler has a bunch of quirks and outright bugs that an inexperienced person will have a great deal of difficulty getting past. For example, despite what the documentation says, expressions with multiple operators on the same line just don't work. If you're familiar with compilers you can figure these kinds of things out before long, but if you're not, you will probably be beating your head against a wall for a very long time.


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/29/2003 01:21:57 GMT
            I am not sure what is going on with Mindscripts. I had it
            as a legal language in the FAQ before this debate. Now I
            am not sure what to do. I have not asked FIRST since this
            is not my 'fight'. The quote from Scott certainly does
            suggest that mindscript is on the endangered list.

            -Skye


            1. Message by: craterkids 09/29/2003 08:10:56 GMT
              Our team used RIS last year but have switched to Robolab this year so please excuse me if this is a dumb question, but can someone with more experience verify whether it is possible to open a Mindscripts program (i.e., any program written in Mindscripts) in the RIS graphical environment? If so then it would seem like Minscripts would be OK since you could always view and (rather tediously) print your programs from the RIS environment.

              On the topic of whether Mindscripts should be allowed my two cents is this: I coach a team of 4th and 5th graders and the GUI tools are acceptable but a text-only language would be too difficult for them. An older team (say one of 14-year olds) could probably get by with Mindscripts. This does make for a somewhat non-level playing field but I don't think Minscripts would really give a team that much of an advantage. I'll be interested to see what the "final" ruling is regarding the use of Minscripts.


    10. Message by: team 78 09/19/2003 21:22:05 GMT
      Ken, Skye,
      It's people like you that make this sport so darn exciting!
      Thanks for the great advise. I'm going to devote this weekend looking at ROBO and make a decision. (I'll have my 10 year old son help me)
      I have been visiting every web site and reading all the available doc's (including yours'!) out there, which is a great help to me, as well.
      Also, we had our 2nd meeting last night and I observed that 2(my son and his best friend) of the 9 kids had a good amount of Technic building experience and the other 7 had very little. There were many questions being asked. Therefore, the next meeting or two, I'm going thru "basic training" boot camp to show them some good examples that are already documented to give them the tools build with confidence.
      You can see that we have a very "green" team and no assistant coach either!!!
      This is what makes it so rewarding for me - for them to learn so much and have fun doing it! They are very eager and are very cooperative which has been a blessing.
      Thanks again for all your help and advise. I (we) really appreciate it.
      Terry Secora


      1. Message by: craterkids 09/20/2003 08:48:41 GMT
        Terry,

        I couldn't agree more with your compliments to Ken and Skye. Thanks guys!

        Since you're talking about learning Robolab I thought it might be helpful to post a link to a web page I've created for the teams at our school. On this page you will find a number of sample Robolab programs. I've tried to document them as much as possible to make them a helpful learning tool. Comments and additions welcome!

        www.haciendarobotics.com/lessons/programming/library.html

        =Steve
        Coach of the Crater Kids
        Hacienda Elementary


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/20/2003 15:02:53 GMT
          FANTASTIC

          This is a great resource! A must read.

          I will consider what I might be able to donate to the
          library! Others should as well.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: craterkids 09/20/2003 20:28:29 GMT
            Skye,

            That would be great! I'd love to add other programs to my site. Nothing is too small or too complex. Almost all of the programs on that page were written by our kids - I prettied up the alignment and added some comments. We've all learned a lot in the process.

            Thanks for the kind feedback, too!

            =Steve


    11. Message by: RobotScouts2595 09/30/2003 22:29:37 GMT
      everyone we have recived our maps there cool it has red just like the color of our mission its real nice


    12. Message by: RoboticTen390 10/08/2003 21:14:41 GMT
      can u mix any lego pices u my have even if they are from your house??


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/08/2003 21:23:19 GMT
        Please read the FAQ at:
        http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

        The short answer is yes.

        -Skye


Discussion: mat By: martian argonauts 11/24/2003 14:12:12 GMT
does anyone have a picture of the layout of the mat? we got one from some where last year and it was very heplfull in mission planning.

  1. Message by: Twitching Martian Masters 09/16/2003 04:46:30 GMT
    More specifically, does anyone have a overhead picture of the playing field that could be printed on an 8.5" x 11" piece of paper? This would be perfect for strategizing when you're not standing at the actual table.

    Dennis Wilson
    Coach, Temp - A7 (temporary name)


    1. Message by: Robomaniacs 09/16/2003 06:40:14 GMT
      Dennis,

      I have several overhead pictures of the playing field. E-mail me and I will send them to you tomorrow evening.

      Mark Heil


      1. Message by: GYRO2817 10/03/2003 07:18:26 GMT
        Could you e-mail them to me at gyro.camp@cogeco.ca


    2. Message by: craterkids 09/16/2003 09:55:53 GMT
      I took an overhead photo of the mat this year but it came out a bit creased (I had just removed it from the box). It's still worthy of giving you a rough idea of the layout etc. Also, I used a drawing program to emphasize the outline of the pieces. Lastly, I made two versions of the drawing: one with a background image of the mat and one without. They're PDF docs so they're easy to view and print. Note: these are *very* unofficial diagrams.

      I hope folks find them useful. If anyone has better ones please post them.

      Hmmm, the Web UI here in the forum only seems to want to let me post one file at a time, despite the field title being Attachment*s* (plural). So I'm posting first the one with background and will follow with another post for the one without.


    3. Message by: craterkids 09/16/2003 09:56:55 GMT
      Mat diagram without the background image.

      Enjoy!

      =Steve
      Coach of the Hacienda Crater Kids


    4. Message by: craterkids 09/16/2003 10:01:26 GMT
      Sorry for all of the posts. It appears that the PDF docs did not transfer correctly. Here's a zip version. If this doesn't work just email me and I'll send you the files. (They're small - about 65K together).

      =Steve
      sdakin@sdakin.com


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/16/2003 13:54:58 GMT
        Steve,

        Thanks for the PDF files of the mat! They are a great help!

        --Ken Streeter
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      2. Message by: RoboCards346 09/18/2003 19:02:52 GMT
        Please email me the docs at d.gilroy@sau47.k12.nh.us

        thank you,
        Doug


      3. Message by: GYRO2817 10/03/2003 07:25:05 GMT
        I can't opened the file. What program was it build in?


        1. Message by: craterkids 10/06/2003 23:47:04 GMT
          GYRO2817,

          I originally posted the documents in PDF format but wasn't sure it worked so I then posted another version in ZIP format. The easiest format for viewing is PDF - you need
          Adobe Acrobat Reader to view them (follow the link to download a free copy).

          I will email the documents to you in the hopes that you will be able to view them that way.

          =Steve


    5. Message by: HomeIsCool-1160 09/16/2003 17:06:44 GMT
      Thanks so much for making this available. It certainly facilitates the planning.

      Jeffery Jones
      Coach, Home Is Cool


    6. Message by: 220 Red Rocket Engineers 09/18/2003 19:17:14 GMT
      Thanks from team 220 in WI. We also found these helpful last year.

      Doug
      Red Rocket Engineers
      Oak Creek, WI


    7. Message by: juniorjedis1145 09/19/2003 19:08:11 GMT


      1. Message by: craterkids 09/20/2003 08:52:41 GMT
        Amazing detail and clarity! Thanks for posting the mat image. This one's going on the desktop of my laptop so I can stare at it while ruminating over the challenge missions.


    8. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/20/2003 21:09:12 GMT
      Does anybody have a few pictures of a table set up with
      the field pieces? I would like to include a few in a
      recruitment presentation I am making.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: BotCats29 09/23/2003 16:14:07 GMT
        Skye,

        I don't have any yet, but I'll take some tomorrow at our meeting and sent it along. If you want hi-res, email me on the side at BotCats@cfl.rr.com and I'll ship 'em off.

        Ken Ibold
        BotCats coach


      2. Message by: BNI927 09/23/2003 17:18:35 GMT
        I don't have them on the tabl;e, but I took some high quality model shots. They are posted at:

        http://www.hightechkids.org/ilfll/models2003.php

        --
        Dave April
        Coach, Batteries Not Included


      3. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/23/2003 17:28:28 GMT
        I got my pictures. Thanks for all the kind offers!

        -Skye


      4. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 09/29/2003 00:17:26 GMT
        Does anybody have a few pictures of a table set up with
        the field pieces? I would like to include a few in a
        recruitment presentation I am making.


        Not yet, but I plan on doing this and posting them to a web page like we did last year. We got off to a slow start this year. First the mat and pieces showed up late although we registered back on 1 May. Then I was sick.

        Anyway, we should finish the complete setup next weekend, so I should be able to post photographs shortly thereafter.


    9. Message by: Robomaniacs 09/24/2003 23:38:36 GMT
      I have a shot of Scott Evans table in New Hampshire. Hope it helps someone.


      1. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 11/22/2003 17:05:21 GMT
        Wait, i am confused. The picture in the previous post shows the rover pointed towards the tetrohedron base... i thought it was suposed to be the other way around. Wich is right?


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 11/24/2003 14:07:53 GMT
          Yes, as far as I can tell from the photo, the earlier post shows the mission model rover pointed in the wrong direction. The mission model rover that is stuck on the sand dune should be pointed away from the base. The orientation is marked on the mat. Figuring out which end of the rover is the front is a little trickier -- if any of the kids are familiar with Star Wars' Millenium Falcon, however, then they won't have any trouble figuring out which end is the front!

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    10. Message by: Marskateers 10/06/2003 17:58:51 GMT
      How far along should we be in preparing for the competition. It is October 6th, and the competition is November 22, '03?


      1. Message by: Mapcuanun 10/06/2003 23:36:43 GMT
        However far along you are is just fine! Each team will move at a different speed depending on many factors - age of the team, past experience or rookies, when you started, etc... I have one team beginning the programming and another team still working on a robot design that works. Good luck!

        Marie Hopper
        coach Mars Rocks and Mapcuanun


    11. Message by: Morton Magic 540 10/21/2003 20:50:44 GMT
      Do the Sample Canister and the Habitation Modules have a specific place on the field or do they just have to be in the general area next to the Tetrahedron Base? I have seen a couple of different pictures of layouts including the one on the FLL web site and all look a little different. If we don't have specifics, how do we program our robot to pick these things up?

      Donna Spudic
      Coach Morton Magic


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/21/2003 20:57:30 GMT
        Items that start in the base can be positioned however
        you want. For more info read the FAQ at:
        http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

        -Skye


Discussion: Challenge kit backordered By: phantoms2127 10/10/2003 20:49:26 GMT
Our challenge kit has been back ordered and I'm dealing with a group of anxious kids. I'm sure I can keep them busy for a couple practices, although it's difficult to determine what robot design is necessary without the field pieces.

Does anyone know when we can expect our kit? I've got to trim our numbers down to 20 which is difficult without our equipment.

  1. Message by: RoboCards346 09/16/2003 15:58:03 GMT
    I just called Pitsco. They started shipping back ordered kitts on the 12th


    1. Message by: firstknights319 09/18/2003 18:52:08 GMT
      I would recommend that you try to find another team in the area and plan a "field trip" to that school. Check out the team section or the state section and send out feelers. I noticed you are in Michigan and there are lots of FLL teams there. FLL people are noted for responding to other teams in need.

      Steve Kramp
      Caoch, FIRST Knights


    2. Message by: SpaceShots1826 09/19/2003 04:15:28 GMT
      FWIW, we got our kit today, just in time for our first meeting after the formal challenge announcement. I don't know if we were a backorder status or not, though, since another adult on the team deals with that side of things.

      Del Merritt, Coach
      Team 1826, now "Deranged and Mutant Martians"


    3. Message by: ilsgreen2170 09/19/2003 05:05:35 GMT
      phantoms2127, you should either have your may or be really close to having your mat if your check was to PITSCO in late August. Mine arrived Wednesday, September 17, and our payment arrived at PITSCO about August 28. I recall PITSCO shipping in the order of payment received.

      - Mark Beitz, coach


      1. Message by: phantoms2127 09/21/2003 01:35:35 GMT
        My kit arrived Thursday morning, in time to build the field pieces at our Thursday practice. One student's mom is coaching a team at the elementary school and had given me their CD. This allowed me to have the instructions printed for our practice.


    4. Message by: Club BOB 10/01/2003 06:09:46 GMT
      As of yesterday we still have one team that has not received their mat yet that had it on backorder. They are hoping it arrives soon.

      I talked to Pitsco today and they said last week a big shipment of backorders did go out.

      I did have another coach tell me he couldn't find the buidling CD in his box.


    5. Message by: Roswell Raiders 164 10/10/2003 20:49:26 GMT
      Somehow our sample canister has disappeared. Any suggestions on how to get another one???

      Thanks in advance...


Discussion: Dual-Lock and Build Instructions CD By: SpaceShots1826 11/09/2003 19:07:04 GMT
I want to offer a huge THANK YOU to the FLL staffers who managed to both get us pre-cut Dual-Lock(tm) and also got the CD of instructions for us so we could avoid downloading it from the site. I haven't actually started sticking the Dual-Lock down, but the kids snagged the CD at our meeting today and got right to building!

I don't see any specific instructions for how/where to put the DualLock, but the fact that it's pre-cut just makes me want to do an FLL Coach's happy dance! If I get to it this weekend (the kids do the models, but I do the DualLock) I'll post my hints. If someone beats me to it, though, don't hold back.

For those who haven't seen the CD yet (or for some reason overlooked it), here's what's on it:

0 Apr 4 04:44 Adobe Acrobat Reader [directory]
24 Apr 11 06:58 AUTORUN.INF
1741726 Apr 9 07:40 180 deg. Habitation Module.pdf
1779987 Apr 9 07:37 90 deg. Habitation Module.pdf
92639597 Apr 4 05:49 All In One.pdf
23503474 Mar 31 04:39 Alliance Habitation .pdf
45606 Mar 28 07:35 Boulder.pdf
2262007 Mar 28 06:34 Crater.pdf
826359 Apr 9 04:58 Ice Core.pdf
112364 Apr 9 07:45 Infopage.pdf
12607980 Apr 9 05:24 MAV Launcher.pdf
2079104 Apr 9 06:18 Models List.pdf
799262 Mar 28 07:33 Parts List.pdf
3959513 Apr 9 05:01 Rover.pdf
95487 Mar 28 07:34 Sample Canister.pdf
1546397 Mar 28 07:29 Sand Dune.pdf
1059770 Mar 28 07:31 Solar Panel.pdf
42408253 Apr 9 05:19 Tetrahedron Base.pdf
41 Apr 11 07:43 ident
3126 Apr 11 07:00 lego.bmp

Again, thank you FIRST for listening!

Del Merritt, Coach Team 1826
Deranged and Mutant Martians

  1. Message by: harris-194 09/19/2003 05:10:48 GMT
    You'll find the dual-lock instructions via the Field Setup link under MATS & BORDERS ( http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11380 )

    Hope that helps,

    Courtney
    Harris-194


    1. Message by: spacecadets494 09/30/2003 22:31:02 GMT
      The alliance habitation module does not specify dual lock but it does say that the "model is secured to the absolute center between the two fields cross the back Border Walls of both fields." Should we secure it for our practice sessions?


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/30/2003 23:53:55 GMT
        Space Cadets: Yes, the alliance habitation module should be secured with dual lock to the top of the border wall. For a single practice table, you will need to mount a small section of 2x4 to the outside of the border. You will also need to mount a small stub of "floor" underneath the attached 2x4 for proper operation of the other side of the alliance module. (For hints on assembling this add-on, see Mats and Borders, particularly paying attention to the use of a "Dummy Board."

        There is a discussion elsewhere in the forum that included some information about attaching the alliance habitation module, entitled Clarification of Secured to the Center. That discussion should provide you with more info on this topic.


    2. Message by: redraiders76 10/09/2003 16:44:11 GMT
      Can anyone tell us (red raiders from the UK) does the 90degree habitation module need to be fixed to the table with the dual Lock ?


    3. Message by: harris-194 10/09/2003 16:47:07 GMT
      The 90 degree habitation module is dual-locked to the mat.

      See the Field Setup instructions for details: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11380

      Courtney
      Harris-194


    4. Message by: BigRed2498 10/12/2003 12:58:39 GMT
      I cannot seem to find the link you are referring to. That is, I cannot find the "dual-lock" instructions. Could you be more specific?

      Thnaks!


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/12/2003 15:55:47 GMT
        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11380

        -Skye


    5. Message by: BigRed2498 10/12/2003 13:01:41 GMT
      Never mind. What I am looking for are the instructions for building the units for each mission. We have some of the units already assembled, but not all. These are from a second kit avilable to us that did not include the CD.

      Thanks!


    6. Message by: Discovery3739 11/06/2003 08:13:17 GMT
      If someone would take pity on us, our district coordinator ordered the wrong challenge kit part number and we didn't get the cd with the build instructions. They are ordering it now, but I am frantic, since it is November, and we still have nothing to practice with. Please could someone email me the pdf files? I would be eternally grateful.

      carolann
      cfraenkel@shaw.ca


      1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/07/2003 03:34:01 GMT
        Carolann, some alternatives, as you are requesting files totaling 90,500 KB, which is a little big for most of our e-mail capabilities:

        Will PITSCO send you a CD at this point?

        Are you willing to accept a copy of the CD by regular mail? I can burn a CD.

        If this is practical for you (and I'm not sure if it is in British Columbia), you might also consider asking other local coaches to see if you can borrow a Challenge Set for your practice, then return it so they can practice. My 2001 Arctic Challenge kit was out for loan on Monday and Thursday nights for about half of that season while my team used it Sunday and Tuesday nights due to slow delivery service from Pitsco that year.

        You might also be able to hit up a coach with an early regional such as teams going to Appleton or Stevens Point, Wisconsin. Some teams will end their season if they don't qualify for a state tournament, although I'm planning some additional teaching whether or not my team qualifies for the state tournament. This route may not just get you a CD but the actual built pieces in a box.

        - Mark Beitz, coach


        1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/09/2003 19:07:04 GMT
          Carolann, some alternatives, as you are requesting files totaling 90,500 KB, which is a little big for most of our e-mail capabilities:

          Just to clarify the files total over 90Mbytes, not Kbytes. 90Kbytes wouldn't be a big deal to email.


Discussion: 2002 City Sights Parts List By: BNI927 12/10/2003 21:59:54 GMT
Hi all -

Does anyone have a parts list for last years challenge kit? I am trying to separate a kit that is now a combination of a regular Mindtorms kit, a team member's personal Mindstorms kit and the 2002 challenge kit. I want to keep the team pieces and be able to give the boy back what he owns. I figure I'm in for a long night of sorting. :(

Dave April
Coach, Batteries Not Included

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/23/2003 14:14:05 GMT
    Dave,

    Unlike this year, I do not recall seeing a parts list
    for the 2002 CitySights challenge kit. You may need to
    assemble all of the models in order to be sure that you
    have the right pieces...

    Sorry for the bad news, but it could be fun assembling
    those all again! ;-)

    --Ken Streeter
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: BNI927 09/23/2003 17:15:48 GMT
      not the answer I wanted to hear, but it's a means to the end I want to achieve, so unless someone else has a better idea, I guess I know what I am doing tonight and tomorrow...

      Dave


    2. Message by: Legonauts4 09/23/2003 18:39:32 GMT
      Keep in mind that different versions of the mindstorms kit came with different pieces. Each version did come with a listing of parts for that version.

      Dave Kolberg
      Coach, #4 Explorers


    3. Message by: RoboVipers130 09/25/2003 13:20:41 GMT
      If you contact Pitsco Lego ( sorry I am at work and do not have the # handy) They can fax you a parts list from last years challenge. One of my teams was short parts last year and I needed to verify what was missing. Pitsco was extremely helpful!


    4. Message by: Club BOB 10/01/2003 06:15:23 GMT
      I don't think there was a parts list for the CitySights set. Or if there was, I don't remember it. There was a pdf file you could download with building instructions so by default figure out what parts were needed.

      the CD this year is something new, no more big download just do build the playing field.


    5. Message by: PhobosHobos637 10/29/2003 05:16:24 GMT
      Here's an inventory of a Pitsco team challenge kit, circa 2001 (1of2)


    6. Message by: PhobosHobos637 10/29/2003 05:19:02 GMT
      Here's an inventory of a Pitsco team challenge kit, circa 2001 (2of2)

      There is an inventory of the Mindstorms retail kit is available at http://www.peeron.com/inv/sets/3804-1


      1. Message by: BNI927 10/29/2003 15:33:41 GMT
        PhotoHobos -

        Thanks for the reply. I was looking for the City Sights Challenge parts inventory, not the Mindstorms kit itself.

        Dave April
        Coach, Some Assembly Required


    7. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/10/2003 21:48:49 GMT
      Dave, This is surely far too late for it to help you out on the problem you were having back in September, but I put together an inventory of the parts in the CitySights 2002 kit based upon the instructions. I figured that I would post it here for posterity in case others ever have a need for it.

      The attached file is a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet with the CitySights 2002 challenge set inventory. If you find errors / corrections, please email them to me!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: BNI927 12/10/2003 21:59:54 GMT
        Thanks Ken! It's still a great reference document since I cannabalized a bunch of City Sights parts.

        Dave


Discussion: 2001/2002 Challenge Kits Wanted to Buy By: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/23/2003 14:20:23 GMT


  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/23/2003 14:20:01 GMT
    Hello,

    I am looking to purchase a 2001 Challenge Kit (Arctic
    Impact) or 2002 Challenge Kit (City Sights) from teams
    that are no longer using their old challenge kit, and
    could benefit from the extra money to cut expenses this
    year.

    I would like to use the 2001 Arctic Impact kit to be
    able to do mini-challenges with the students on our team
    in the off-season. (There's definitely no time for extra
    activities during the regular season!)

    I would like to have an additional 2002 City Sights
    Challenge Kit in order to be able to set up a "dual
    tournament table" for demonstrations of the two-table
    setup. If you have an old challenge kit that you would be
    willing to sell, please let me know at

    fll-coach-streeter@solidrocksolutions.com
    .

    Thanks!
    --Ken Streeter
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Allowable parts By: Ice Dragons 211 11/20/2003 23:15:16 GMT
I know this has been discussed before, but I wanted to double check. When a team is allowed only 3 motors, or 2 light sensors, does that mean on the table at any one time. Could a team build an attachment that has 2 light sensors, and then while in base, change that for another attachment that also has two light sensors, but used differently? Or touch sensors, or motors, etc. Or can each team only bring no more than that number of items to the table?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/23/2003 23:50:31 GMT
    The grand total of what you bring to the table cannot
    exceed the limits of 3 motors, 2 light sensors, ....
    This is discussed in the FAQ at
    http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: Women in Black 58 09/24/2003 17:00:22 GMT
      I have Lego motorized simple machine kits that have small motors and weights. Are these allowable parts?
      Susan Buys Coach
      Women and Men in Black


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/24/2003 17:07:02 GMT
        Women in Black 58:

        I am not 100% certain, but I believe that the small
        motors would be allowed, but each would count against
        one of the motors in the 3-motor limit. (That is, if
        you use one of the small motors, it counts as if it
        were one of your large motors.) The weights (assuming you
        mean the weights that look like a 2x6x2 LEGO brick) are
        acceptable LEGO elements.

        -Ken Streeter
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    2. Message by: Women in Black 58 09/24/2003 17:19:39 GMT
      Thank you so much Ken. This is our second year working with mindstorms and we are finally understanding the nuances.

      Susan Buys
      Coach MIB and WIB


    3. Message by: MarsMonkeys 1113 09/29/2003 00:55:37 GMT
      Re. pneumatics--The FAQ say that pneumatics are allowed as long as the robot (not a human) operates them. Our question is: Can we fill the air tank manually in the pit before coming to the table? After that, the robot would release (and possibly refill) it. Thanks!

      J. Gallagher, Coach
      Funky Monkeys from Mars


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/29/2003 01:25:22 GMT
        Yes, you could fill the tank in the base and before the
        match. Before the match you could use a motorized pump.
        At the table, you could only use a motorized pump if the
        motor was LEGO (but it would count as one of your three).
        Of course you could use the large manual pump.

        -Skye


    4. Message by: Techno Saints 961 10/13/2003 00:44:03 GMT
      Can someone answer this question? Can we use any lego pieces as long as we use no more then 3 motors, 2 light sensors, two touch sensors, and 1 angle sensor? Can we use pieces from other lego sets?

      Thanks for the help. It's our first year and we need help.

      Techno Saints


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/13/2003 02:41:11 GMT
        Please read the FAQ at
        http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq
        It will answer many more of your questions. The short
        answer to your question is yes. The long answer is in
        the FAQ.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Tecumseh Space Krustaceans 10/25/2003 02:21:58 GMT
        hey its our first year 2. yes i do belive that we can do that. but in the rules it discusses the electronic parts. there it says all of the elctronic u can use and thats, that. it also says u can use any normal peice from any set. as long as it is a lego product.(eg...no megablocks, or parts from action figures, no glue or tape ect.)hope i could help


    5. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 10/25/2003 21:06:39 GMT
      Do you think we can use parts from Lego Spybotics? Specifically the gears and parts used to make the wheels on the Gigamesh G60?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/25/2003 22:07:02 GMT
        Try Scott Evans (evans@usfirest.org) with this question.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: 10/27/2003 23:12:26 GMT
        Deleted


      3. Message by: thearmyoftheLord2882 10/27/2003 23:14:39 GMT
        This is our first year too but yes, you can use those parts. I'm pretty sure because I have a LEGO Mindstorms expansion set that comes with those parts.


      4. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 10/28/2003 00:44:12 GMT
        I have emailed Scott and I will let you know his response. My son also said that he saw these parts in a mindstorm set but before I gave the go ahead to use time to build I wanted confirmation.

        Thanks


        1. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 10/29/2003 23:25:48 GMT
          Here is the answer from Scott.

          "Hi Laura,

          Since the Spybotics product line has LEGO in the first word of its title, the parts are legal. What's more puzzling to me is why people are going to the forum for answers when the rules tell them they can come right here in the first place.

          Any way, have a good one!

          Scott"


    6. Message by: SMMS 10/30/2003 15:10:33 GMT
      can you put extra pieces on the board to complete the missions? :)

      Team SMMS Connecticut USA


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/30/2003 15:35:31 GMT
        Only if the robot places them there.
        -Skye


    7. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 11/02/2003 21:58:28 GMT
      Does anyone know if we are allowed to use Lego chain. I'm not sure if those pieces are technic or not. They do say lego on the links. The package says they are from the educational division. This would lead me to believe they are okay to use.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/02/2003 22:44:12 GMT
        Chain is ok. Any Technic part is OK.

        -Skye


    8. Message by: Oakview Martrix Team 11/03/2003 03:30:57 GMT
      Are we allowed to use the spinning gear or whatever the big
      gear that spins?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/03/2003 04:30:56 GMT
        Perhaps you should read the section in the rules that talks
        what parts are ok. All LEGO parts (Technic or plain) are
        allowed execept for the sort list of electrical parts.

        You can find the rules here:
        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11250

        You can also find info on parts here:
        http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

        -Skye


    9. Message by: GYRO2817 11/04/2003 23:33:36 GMT
      Can Some Body Answer This Question?

      Do you know if we can use micro motors?
      If we can, how many?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/04/2003 23:41:43 GMT
        You can use one, but it counts as one of your three.
        The rules do not specify the type of LEGO motor you can
        use, only that you can only use 3.

        -Skye


    10. Message by: GYRO2817 11/05/2003 00:19:56 GMT
      Can Some Body Answer This Question?

      Do you know if we can use micro motors?
      If we can, how many?


      1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/06/2003 02:50:20 GMT
        Do you know if we can use micro motors?

        Yes, I do, since I've bothered to read the rules.

        If we can, how many?

        First, this same question of yours has already been answered in this same folder. Please don't ask the same question more than once.

        Second, this is clearly answered in the rules. I'm not going to answer it because I want you to read the rules yourself.


    11. Message by: URC3576 11/08/2003 01:01:22 GMT
      This probably sounds silly but we went to a special LEGO store and they sold LEGO T-shirts, mugs, foam swords, etc. They have LEGO printed on them. Are we allowed to use those?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/08/2003 01:54:02 GMT
        A quick scan of the rules would say no. The 'weird' LEGO
        products are not building elements. Also the FAQ say no
        as well.

        FAQ is at: http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

        -Skye


    12. Message by: TeamTiger298 11/14/2003 23:53:35 GMT
      Black tape & cutting Pneumatic tubing.

      The FAQ suggests that cutting air hoses (a part clearly intended to be cut) is illegal. Can the tubing used to power cylinders and pumps be cut? Also, to avoid inadvertant reception of IR transmissions (from cameras for ex.) at last year's state tournament teams were allowed to put black electrical tape across the IR port (and only the IR port). We were prepared to build a shield out of lego parts. Will the tape be allowed this year too?

      -Jim


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/15/2003 00:07:35 GMT
        Tape is a 'house rule'. Talk to the tournament director.
        Please notice that most if not all black electricians is
        TRANSPARENT to IR light!

        As for cutting of the tubes, Scott has posted a Q+A
        responce to this question. Look for it under NorthAmerica,
        challenge 2003 on the left menu line. I think the FAQ
        is outdated. Have not had a chance to fix the FAQ as I am
        VERY busy with my secret project that will be unveiled at
        some of the (willing) state tournaments!

        -Skye


    13. Message by: Robohawk 2256 11/20/2003 23:09:47 GMT
      I don't see how tape could be a 'house rule' since it is clearly disallowed under rule 5.

      5. ALLOWABLE MATERIALS
      The Robot, its attachments, accessories, and all other strategic objects brought to a Match must be made entirely of LEGO elements in original factory condition. Electrical parts are limited to 1 RCX, 1 Rotation Sensor, 2 Touch Sensors, 2 Light Sensors, 3 Motors, 1 Lamp, 6 AA batteries, and 8 Wires. No other electrical parts are allowed. Stickers, paint, tape, glue, oil, etc. are not allowed, except marker may be used for owner identification in hidden areas only.


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 11/20/2003 23:15:16 GMT
        Tape can be a house rule, as tournament directors have some liberty to modify rules as they feel is necessary to conduct a tournament.

        Personally, however, I disagree with the use of electrical tape to cover the IR port. I think the teams should instead incorporate a Lego cover of the IR port in order to prevent the possibility of stray IR (such as from a remote) from causing a robot to go awry in a tournament. That said, I understand that some teams don't learn the importance of covering the IR port with Lego, and show up at the tournament vulnerable to being reprogrammed or sent astray accidentally. As much as I disagree with the use of tape to cover the IR port, I understand how the use comes about.

        The Mindstorms Mayhem team will have an IR cover made of Lego -- you won't find any tape on their bot!

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Rotation sensors By: L.G.M.s1276 11/12/2003 20:04:13 GMT
we need to know what the rules to how many rotation sensors we can have on our robot ???????

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/30/2003 20:47:51 GMT
    LGMs,

    The 2003 FLL Rules (see rule 5) specify that only the following sensors may be used:

    "Electrical parts are limited to 1 RCX, 1 Rotation Sensor, 2 Touch Sensors, 2 Light Sensors, 3 Motors, 1 Lamp, 6 AA batteries, and 8 Wires. No other electrical parts are allowed."

    You may also want to take a look at the Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) to help you get started.

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: L.G.M.s1276 09/30/2003 21:25:34 GMT
      Thanks ken. (rats!)


    2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/30/2003 21:59:23 GMT
      Ken's answer is right on the money (as normal). But do
      consider reading the book "Building LEGO Mindstorm Robots
      for FLL". A link to this manual can be found at:
      http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net

      -Skye


    3. Message by: AMS Express 94 11/12/2003 00:26:39 GMT
      we need to know how to use a rotation sensor for the crator to tell the robot to go slower. Any ideas on how to atach the sensor?


    4. Message by: Legonauts4 11/12/2003 20:04:13 GMT
      The rotation sensor uses an axle to turn the internals of the sensor. You can hook the sensor up to any axle already being used or connect the axle to a gear meshed to one of the gears between the motor and the wheel. You can either mount the sensor or just use the wire attachment to keep the sensor in position. You can find this and more in the coaches tutorials available from FIRST at www.usfirst.org/jrobtcs/flg_coach.htm

      -Dave
      Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


Discussion: MAV Launcher By: team saints 12/01/2003 22:26:19 GMT
Just a word of advice on the MAV Launcher. It wears out easily. It is probably advisable not to leave the launcher in the compressed position overnight.

  1. Message by: stlukenanobots1043 10/03/2003 01:53:19 GMT
    I was wondering what a MAV launcher is and what is the purpose of it in real life if anything?


    1. Message by: craterkids 10/03/2003 02:06:50 GMT
      To fully answer that question would be to solve one possible research assignment. Our team chose the MAV Launcher as its research assigment mission so by the time the season is over we'll be able to answer that question rather well.


    2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/03/2003 02:49:39 GMT
      MAV = Mars Ascent Vehicle.
      It a way to return rock samples to Earth.

      -Skye


    3. Message by: M.A.R.S. Team 10/05/2003 20:20:32 GMT
      Can someone send the diagram for constructing the MAV Launcher? I believe it's called "mav launcher.pdf" Our school seems to have lost the assembly instructions and I don't have the CD. Please email it to ghayes4@cox.net

      Thanks!
      Glenda


      1. Message by: team saints 10/06/2003 00:32:30 GMT
        Try this link.
        http://www.challenge.hjernekraft.org/download/MAV_Launcher.pdf


    4. Message by: Jr Comets II 10/13/2003 21:05:02 GMT
      The purpose is to send orbital satelittes into orbit!


    5. Message by: RoboEagles2989 11/24/2003 23:00:46 GMT
      My first question is what dose the mav laucher do.
      My second questoin is how does it work
      My third question is how will it help us in the futuer.


    6. Message by: RoboEagles2989 11/24/2003 23:10:14 GMT
      My first question is what dose the mav laucher do?
      My second questoin is how does it work?
      My third question is how will it help us in the future?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/24/2003 23:19:12 GMT
        1) It launches a red LEGO ball like a catapult.
        2) It uses two springs and a trigger.
        3) You can take it apart and reuse the LEGO next year.

        -Skye


    7. Message by: RoboEagles2989 12/01/2003 22:18:45 GMT
      What is reason for the Mav Laucher?
      How was the real one built?
      How long did it take to build the real one?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/01/2003 22:26:19 GMT
        MAV is short for Mars Ascent Vehicle. Sometime in the next
        20 years, NASA wants to send a mission to Mars to return
        rock samples. To get them back will require a MAV. Some
        how I doubt it will be a catapult. It will more than likely
        be somekind of rocket like the LEM module that landed on
        the Moon.

        1) To get rocks back to earth.
        2) Has not been built.
        3) A very very very long time!

        -Skye


Discussion: mat problems By: andover722 11/12/2003 02:19:00 GMT
After being rolled up a few times, our mat has formed bubbles and creases. The clear film that coats the mat has peeled a little, causing the flaws. has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone have a way to fix them?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/03/2003 12:45:32 GMT
    Yes this is a very common problem. My suggestion is to
    keep the mat in place and do not move it. I would also
    suggest working with what you have because at competition
    you may have a mat in worse shape!

    See the FAQ for more info
    http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq


    1. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 10/05/2003 04:21:36 GMT
      We only have the table top made for our practices and we have to store it standing on its side. Is it advisable to attach the mat to the table in some way so that we don't have to roll it up after every meeting.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/05/2003 15:51:01 GMT
        I have done it both ways. It is certainly easier to leave
        the mat on the table. One year I glued it down. DO NOT DO
        THIS! The next year I used a staple gun to put staples
        along the edges and next to the Dual Lock in out of the
        way places.

        Of course the problem is that you can't take the mat with
        you when you practice at competition or away from your
        normal location.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: MetroStars378 10/28/2003 22:53:26 GMT
      We have a size difference with the mat and the table. The mat is 1 inch shorter on the long side and 2 inches shorter on the short side. Does anyone else have this problem? How will the mats be arranged at competitions? Is it possible that we have a defective mat? Last year our measurements were the same for mat and table. let us know soon. thanks, metro-stars


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/28/2003 22:56:10 GMT
        Wow! I would say you should measure the mat. It should be
        4 feet - 3 inches wide (45") and 8 feet - 3 inches (93") long.
        If not, you have a bad mat and should contact Pitsco for
        a replacement.

        -Skye


    3. Message by: 11/03/2003 03:37:13 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: Oakview Martrix Team 11/03/2003 03:40:31 GMT
      Our mat has been scatched up bad, and we're worried our light sensors won't work, does anybody have suggestions?


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 11/03/2003 03:52:02 GMT
        Oakview:

        I don't have any suggestions for fixing the mat that is already scratched. I'm afraid that there probably isn't much that can be done to fix it. Cautioning the students about the importance of not dropping things on the mat may help minimize further damage.

        However, having some number of scratches on the mat may actually be a good thing, as it can not be guaranteed that the tournament tables will be perfect. (Plus, even if they are perfect at the start of the day, they will no longer be so by the final rounds at the end of the day!)

        Ideally, you want to use the light sensor in such a way that the operation of the robot is robust in the presence of minor scratches and damage to the mat. If the use of the light sensor is highly susceptible to scratches in the mat, then you will want to change your use of the light sensor, or adopt a more robust strategy.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/03/2003 04:36:02 GMT
        During Arctic Impact my mat got sooooo bad I tried a few
        things out on it. What I did find that helped was gentle
        heat applied with firm pressure. I used a small iron (model
        airplane wing covering iron) set at low heat. I pressed
        this down over the blisters with a cloth between. I
        GRADUALY raised the heat till the surface rebonded.

        It was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but
        it did get us up and running.

        Ken's suggestions (as allways) are right on the mark . A bad
        mat might be a blessing.

        -Skye


    5. Message by: AMS Express 94 11/12/2003 00:36:09 GMT
      our mat has formed white crusting on the edge of our mat. Does anybody know what this is or have any ideas on how to fix it?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/12/2003 00:45:22 GMT
        Sounds like normal delamination. Do a search on delamination
        to find out what other people have done.

        -Skye


    6. Message by: Irken Invaders 11/12/2003 02:19:00 GMT
      Are you sure it's not the beginning of the formation of polar ice caps on the surface of Mars? It's getting to be that time of year...

      Coach Mark
      Irken Invaders


Discussion: Adding parts By: Jr Comets II 11/05/2003 01:28:17 GMT
Are you allowed to add parts to your robot between mission attempts? We are a new team and need help getting started. Anyone with advice out there, please help us out! ( ,,,thanks)

  1. Message by: Jr Comets II 10/06/2003 21:24:19 GMT
    Does anybody know if you are allowed to move the canister holding the ball along with the ball?(...thanks)


    1. Message by: Marskateers 10/06/2003 21:32:07 GMT
      Yes, you are allowed to add lego parts during each mission. I was told it is better to remove parts, between missions, than to add parts, because of all the excitement and commotion.


    2. Message by: R2D2Firedroids 10/07/2003 01:18:22 GMT
      The canister holding the ball is just that, a holder to keep the ball from rolling around. The ball is the actual sample package to be delivered to and then launched by the MAV to successfully score the maximum for this mission. The canister does not need to (and probably shouldn't be) transported to the MAV catapult. The canister, the ball and the 180 degree habitation modules may be moved around anywhere inside the base by the team members at the table before and during the round .
      Paul Bresnan
      R2-D2 Firedroids


    3. Message by: Jr Comets II 10/13/2003 21:02:27 GMT
      Does anyone know an easy way to get the ball and canister over to the MAV laucher without having the ball fall out of the canister? We don't want the ball to roll around the table so we would have to chase after it. That would waste time!(thanks,,,,)


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/13/2003 21:28:29 GMT
        Comets, The "black barrel" with the red ball does not need to be brought to the MAV launcher. The "black barrel" is simply a prop to have the red ball sit on in the base so that it doesn't roll away in between matches. When the time comes for your team to make a mission attempt, when your robot is in the base and not "running," you can take the red ball and place it in/on/next to your robot by hand. After pressing the green button, your robot then does whatever it does to get the red ball loaded into the MAV launcher, and activates the launcher.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      2. Message by: Martian Bulldogs 201 11/05/2003 01:28:17 GMT
        Yes, there is an easier way, you could make a claw that could reach the ball without touching the ground and,drop the ball into the MAV launcher from the side,and then launch it by running into the back.

        Sincerly,
        Martian Bulldogs


    4. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 10/16/2003 04:02:32 GMT
      I apologize in advance if this is a question that has already been answered but there are so many threads that even after read for hours it seems like I am not finding the exact answer. I know it is possible to add and or change attachments to the robot that will help in completing the missions. What I don't know is does that attachment also have to be completely inside the base at the start of each mission? Assuming then that it would now be part of the robot. Or is it legal for the attachment to hang outside of the "Great Wall"

      Thanks in advance.


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/16/2003 04:40:58 GMT
        Roberts Robo Rovers: The short answer is that the entire robot (which includes any currently connected attachments) has to fit entirely in base at the start of each mission. Attachments that are not currently in use can be sitting on the floor or held by one of the team members.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    5. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 10/16/2003 17:20:22 GMT
      Thank you Ken for the quick answer. I thought that was the case but after reading so many different post I started to get myself confused.


    6. Message by: Tecumseh Space Krustaceans 10/25/2003 02:14:46 GMT
      Hey dudes, du u guys have any suggestinos for clearing the solar pane, iut should be easy but we are having trupble finding something nice and easy....thanx alot


Discussion: RCX Malfunctions By: Badgerbots 10/24/2003 18:33:51 GMT
We are a 2nd year team. We had but a few problems with the RCX last year. This year we are having lots of problems. The problem I need help with is the robot not executing when we hit the run button. It typically occurs after finishing one run cycle when it just won't do anything. When it does this the only thing that works at all, only works some of the time and that is to turn it off, back on, switch to a seperate program number, run that program and then switch back to the one we are running.

We had none of these problems last year. There are only two differences I can think of from last year. This year we are using rotation sensor input to check distance this year. Also, this year we are using a differential to control motion so we only turn one motor at a time.

At times when the RCX goes off into lala land we have to reload the program to get it back willing to run the program, and at times that doesn't even seem to work.

We have two RCX modules and both exhibit the same behavior.

Anything you can do to help us will be greatly appreciated.

beth werner

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 10/07/2003 19:56:34 GMT
    First make sure you always end the program with an END program statement. This should help with programs that do not end. I am not sure from your description but it sounds like the program is still running. You can check this by looking at the little man running in the LCD. If you see movement, then the program is still running. The END statment will always stop the program at the end. Just make sure the END statement is executed and only executed when you want the robot to stop. An END statement will turn off the motors (Braked), so if you need to coast to a stop, you will need to add a wait statement before the END. The last thing is that some programs only set up execution using watches. In such a setup you need to be sure something in your program is executed when you want the program to end.

    Dave Kolberg
    Coach Team #4


    1. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/16/2003 22:36:22 GMT
      how do you reset the RCX


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/16/2003 22:48:30 GMT
        Depends on what you call a reset.

        The most radical is to remove the batteries from the RCX
        and wait 2 minutes by a clock. Replace the batteries and
        download the firmware. Your RCX now is 'factory' new.

        A lesser reset is to delete all programs and memory using
        the tools under RoboLab. Not sure if this can be done in
        RIS.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 10/18/2003 17:12:36 GMT
          The most radical is to remove the batteries from the RCX
          and wait 2 minutes by a clock. Replace the batteries and
          download the firmware. Your RCX now is 'factory' new.


          Just downloading the firmware again accomplishes the same full reset. Any programs in the RCX will be erased when new firmware is downloaded.


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/18/2003 17:24:56 GMT
            Does just downloading the firmware also erase program
            memory and clear out containers? I have never tried.

            -Skye


    2. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 10/17/2003 00:06:40 GMT
      Has anyone had problems with the RCX running when it is off. We have had problems with the RCX continuing to run even after we have pushed the off button. Nothing is showing in the window and it appears to be off but it will run the motors. When we disconnected all wires and also try checking batteries, even removing only one battery it will then stop running but we have lost all programing on the RCX. Any ideas.


      1. Message by: 10/17/2003 03:17:19 GMT
        Deleted


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/17/2003 14:16:20 GMT
        RoRoRo:

        We saw similar problems to the ones you describe earlier this season with one of our RCX. We do not know specifically what caused the problem. However, removing the batteries (as described above) and then restoring firmware has seemed to fix the problem. We believe that our problems were probably the result of having that RCX partially "overprogrammed" by having it too near another programming station while another station was programming a different RCX. Another potential possibility is that the batteries within are not making good contact with all of the metal contacts in the RCX. Checking to see that all of the metal contacts are "bent out" sufficiently is a good idea.

        The good news is that after being more careful with the above two items, we have not seen the problem recur, even after about 8 subsequent meetings.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    3. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 10/17/2003 14:41:02 GMT
      Ken,

      Thank you for your help. It makes alot of sense. We are using two robots and at times the kids get over anxious to download and have forgotten to put the bot in his garage. That could be the problem. I am going out today to buy case of batteries. Costco here I come.
      By the way like the shortening of our name. It does get seem like a tongue twister at times.

      L


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/17/2003 16:50:47 GMT
        You're not kidding about the "Roberts Robo Rovers" being a tongue twister! I'd love to hear the tournament emcee trying to say it in the excitement of the tournament!

        Hopefully you'll be able to avoid future RCX troubles.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

        "Ro, Ro, Ro your 'bot, gently down the ramp..."


    4. Message by: Rusty Engineers 10/20/2003 20:58:02 GMT
      So far the team has been programming one program at a time and hasn't done multiple programs on the RCX.
      As soon as we press the download button, the RCX immediately attempts to put the downloaded program into program 5.
      Are we doing something wrong?
      Thanks,
      Paul Tagher
      Rusty Engineers


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/20/2003 21:20:07 GMT
        What language are you using? RoboLab or RIS?
        -Skye


    5. Message by: Rusty Engineers 10/23/2003 02:42:37 GMT
      RIS.
      Paul


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/23/2003 03:34:52 GMT
        Hopefully a RIS user will chime in here. We use RoboLab
        and I do not even have a copy of RIS on any of my computers.
        But I do remember that you had to select the program slot
        the program was to be downloaded to. Poke around the
        user interface and you should find an option for the
        program slot. I hope I am not wrong, but if I am somebody
        is bound to correct me!

        -Skye


    6. Message by: Wildcats1099 10/23/2003 04:23:29 GMT
      Paul,
      First make sure all your program slots are unlocked. After you select a user, choose settings from the next page. Choose the advanced button from the bottom of the box. Make sure there are no x's in any of the program slot boxes. This is also the place to tell the program you have a rotation sensor. Make sure you click on accept. It will need to talk to your RCX to change the settings. When you are programming, choose settings from the toolbar across the top of the page. The top option is probably set to download to slot 5. Click on the arrow to the right of that, and change to the slot you wish to download to.
      I'm thinking of relocking all the programming slots before competition to help avoid unintentional downloads from other teams.
      Hope this helps.
      Monica


    7. Message by: Rusty Engineers 10/24/2003 18:33:51 GMT
      Thanks,
      That's probably it -- I'll find out this weekend.
      I also just learned about setting the rotation sensor -- thanks as well for that advice.
      I'll let you know if it works.
      Paul


Discussion: Design Documentation By: eagles3113 11/06/2003 17:33:15 GMT
New coach question - any recommendations for documentation of robot designs? Team members need to be able to reproduce previous iterations. Any graphics/other packages that lend themselves to Legos?

Thanks!
Trina Park
Annapolis Area Christian School

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 10/07/2003 20:45:58 GMT
    Try MLCAD. It is freewear and will allow you to draw your robot in a CAD environment (3D). From this you can publish build instructions. There is a book that has instructions on this and other freewear for Legos available, I do not have it in front of me right now. I will try to get the book name and publish later. Try an internet search for MLCAD you should find lots of information.

    Dave Kolberg
    Coach Team #4


    1. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 10/10/2003 20:45:49 GMT
      What do you need documentation for? Is that part of the Technical presentation?


    2. Message by: eagles3113 10/11/2003 21:14:58 GMT
      We just want our team to learn some of the basic engineering good practices as we go along. One of our mottoes is "If you don't write it down, it didn't happen". A cool software package makes it easier and more fun.

      Trina


    3. Message by: robotechs738 11/06/2003 17:33:15 GMT
      I just got the rules for the TN tournament and it does say we have to have a copy of the 'robot programs' to the technical judging session.....Andrea, new coach


Discussion: RCX Hardware Malfunction? By: Team Red Alert 229 10/28/2003 18:11:16 GMT
Here's a good one for all you RCX internals hackers:
I have an RCX which seems to have malfunctioning output ports. Ports A and B seem to have some sort of electrical short between them which causes the following results:

Port A Forward: motor runs forward normally
Port A Backward: motor runs backward very slow, *and*
motor hooked to port B runs FORWARD very slow!
Port B Forward: motor runs forward very slow, *and*
motor hooked to port A runs BACKWARD very slow!
Port B Backward: motor runs backward normally
Port C Forward: motor runs forward normally
Port C Backward: motor runs backward normally

Test conditions:

- One motor connected to each port with one wire.
- Swapped out motors (I have seven) to rule out motor problems.
- Swapped wires to rule out wire problems.
- I have 2 other RCXs which show none of the above symptoms with the same motors and wires.
- Drive commands were issued using LEGO remote control for ease of test, but programs (using Robolab) give same results.
- I downloaded fresh firmware (3 times) and it had no effect.
- The RCX has had no traumatic experiences with liquids of any kind, although it might have been dropped on the floor once or twice.

Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? It almost seems to me that a short circuit is causing current to leak between the ports, but I'm no electrical engineer.

Finally, has anyone had any luck getting LEGO to repair/replace an RCX? They once sent me a replacement motor with no questions asked (I just had to send them the old one so I wouldn't get charged), but I'm not sure how that would work with an RCX.

Any help is much appreciated!

- Scott Kukshtel
Coach, Team Red Alert!
Atkinson, NH

  1. Message by: Mapcuanun 10/08/2003 18:48:13 GMT
    Scott, let me know if you have any luck getting a replacement. We have one RCX that has a completely non-functioning port A.

    Marie Hopper
    hopperme@earthlink.net


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/08/2003 19:21:40 GMT
      LEGO is normaly VERY good at replacements. You call them
      up, tell them your problem. They will take a credit card
      number and ship you a new RCX. They then give you a period
      of time to send the old one in before they hit your credit
      card.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 10/10/2003 05:10:37 GMT
        Yes Skye - I had the same experience when I needed a replacement for a frozen motor. They sent a new one, mine went back, no questions asked.

        However, when I called LEGO ShopAtHome today to ask for a replacement RCX, the service rep first tried to tell me "too bad", that I would have to buy a replacement for $80. When I asked about the replacement policy and told her of my previous experience, she asked how long I had owned the RCX. I said two years, and she again tried to *sell* me a replacement. I then said that I knew several people (i.e. all of you Forum friends ;-) who had gotten replacement parts for free (including RCXs). She then put me on hold for a few minutes (no doubt to talk to a supervisor). When she came back, she said that they would, after all, give me a free replacement, but that I would have to send them my malfunctioning RCX first.

        So, it goes out in tomorrow's mail. I'll keep you posted as to when I get it back. Too bad it had to happen during the season, but fortunately we've got two more. (I may have to get a team member to bring their personal RCX to the tourney as our "backup backup" if I don't get mine back in time!)

        - Scott


        1. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 10/28/2003 18:11:16 GMT
          UPDATE: Brand new replacement RCX (rev 2.0) received in mail on Friday and all is working well now. All it cost me was the one-way shipping and insurance. Excellent service LEGO!


    2. Message by: Team Trinity3240 10/14/2003 02:46:15 GMT
      I have been running my programs successfully for a few days but today went to rerun some of my missions and the motors at speed 1 did not move my RCX vehicle. It barely moves the wheels even when off the ground. It is not an axle problem and no parts are pressing against the chassis. I put in fresh batteries and had no improvement. It sounds like the motors are laboring compared to how they sound at higher speeds. Will the motors where out to any extent?

      Mark Scott
      Team Trinity


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/14/2003 15:12:47 GMT
        A brand new motor will degrade slightly as the brushes
        wear in. I will guess you have some other issue.

        1) Ground up LEGO plastic in the bearings! After a
        season, you can get quite an accumulation!

        2) Retest all your connections. Especially the rotation
        sensor. It is VERY important to have it tightly
        snaped into place.

        3) Are you sure you used new batteries?

        4) Was the RCX hot when you used it? The H-bridge parts
        inside the RCX are current limited. These parts are
        subject to temperature effects.

        -Skye Sweeney


Discussion: Parts storage By: ilsgreen2170 12/04/2003 20:51:38 GMT
I recall a discussion last year about useful Lego parts storage boxes. I think there was something about fishing tackle boxes from Wal-Mart or other stores. Can anyone make a few recommendations? Thanks -- Mark Beitz, coach

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/08/2003 12:48:32 GMT
    The handbook at http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net has a
    few recommendations. Not sure if those specific models
    are still available. The things to look for are:
    1) Good solid latches!
    2) Shelves that when open are fully accessible.
    3) Shelves that when closed do not allow the parts
    to spill if up ended.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/08/2003 15:59:53 GMT
      Mark,

      My very strong favorite is a box like the Plano 1234.

      You can see a picture online at The Sports Authority web pages. I purchased mine at Walmart for around $25 each.

      What I really like are the small individual box trays with the tackle box. These small trays can also be purchased invididually. We have a couple tackle box sets for carrying Lego to tournaments, workshops, etc., and then even more of the box trays. For a tournament or workshop, the top compartment is large enough to hold a small robot, the USB tower, and the other really big Lego pieces.

      For meetings, we take a lot of the trays out and set them on a table. The trays can be opened, and set out flat on the table, with the base of one tray set into the opened lid of the other tray. In this way, all the Legos can be easily seen, and finding the piece one wants is pretty easy. Each box holds a specific type of Lego (beams, gears, liftarms, pins etc.) and the different compartments are used for different sizes. I found that hot-melting the dividers you want in place works well. The hot-melt glue holds the dividers in place for use, but is easily "broken" to remove a divider when it becomes necessary to reorganize (due to additional Lego, etc.)

      Just my two cents. Other solutions surely would work very well, too!

      --ken


    2. Message by: ilsgreen2170 10/09/2003 01:47:17 GMT
      Thanks, Skye and Ken! I appreciate the help in finding this information faster.

      Anyone else -- let us know if you have other suggestions that work well for you.

      - Mark


    3. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 15:00:51 GMT
      I've been considering one of these, http://www.roboticslearning.com/store/index.html, but it's more expensive than the Plano box. Anybody have one?

      /Dave


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/04/2003 18:24:33 GMT
        Dave / Little Green Men and Women: I haven't used the boxes in question, but from looking at the picture, they sure look like they *are* Plano boxes, just a different model than the ones that are mentioned in the FAQ. You should be able to take a look at the same models at your local Walmart or other department store that carries fishing tackle.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      2. Message by: ilsgreen2170 12/04/2003 20:43:24 GMT
        It's a Plano 1234 box system for sure. I bought this system from Wal-Mart this year.

        Here's the Wal-Mart cost comparison based on prices in October.
        Plano 1234 box with three large trays: 1 @ $24.96 = $24.96
        Small Plano boxes going into top, sold separately:
        5 @ $1.88 each = 9.40
        1 more @ $1.88 each = 1.88

        --------
        Total $ 36.24

        All boxes are made by Plano. The inside of the top box will tell you the model number of the small boxes that fit perfiectly in the top slots.

        Looks like RoboticsLearning may have a good price with the preprinted labels, depending on S/H costs. The preprinted labels probably won't match with all parts from a FLL Challenge Kit, though.

        The sixth box in the top may need to be smaller than the other five. A sixth box of the same size as the other five doesn't fit well in my box.

        - Mark Beitz, a coach who really needs to turn in these receipts!


    4. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 12/04/2003 20:28:58 GMT
      I picked up a nice large one at Walmart for about $30. It has proven very useful in organizinging our pieces large and small.
      Debbie


Discussion: Looking for the Mission Mars JPG. By: Fueled-By-Intelligence2155 10/09/2003 15:44:49 GMT
Is there a Mission Mars logo JPeg available? I thought I saw one once, but can't seem to find it again.

Thanks, Team 2155
Fueled-By-Intelligence

  1. Message by: unknown3259 10/09/2003 02:33:40 GMT
    Here's the Logo.

    Trish Poggio
    Team 3259


    1. Message by: Fueled-By-Intelligence2155 10/09/2003 15:44:49 GMT
      Thanks a bunch! Team 2155 Fueled-By-Intelligence


Discussion: Unusual LEGO parts By: Red Planet Gladiators702 11/27/2003 05:39:28 GMT
One member of our team has been "mining" his many boxes of LEGOs that have been collected over the years and has found some very unique LEGOs. Some of the most promising are a cargo/soccer net, car wash brush, and thin plastic banners. All of these were in official LEGO kits and valid, I believe, under the rules. How in the world will a judge know? How would a team provide valid evidence if the judge doesn't recognize a part?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/09/2003 20:10:26 GMT
    Often, the parts will have the LEGO logo molded into the
    part. If not, the part should have the fairly obvious
    stud/socket or cross shaped axle hole. If not, it probably
    does not fall into the LEGO element catagory.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/09/2003 20:33:47 GMT
      That sounds like the net from soccer goal in the soccer set would not be considered a "LEGO element"?

      or the cargo net from the Pirates Ambush LEGO System set?

      or the thin plastic sheets that are available in the Solar Explorer, Life On Mars set?

      Thanks, I appreciate finding out now rather than later. So the criteria we should use for a valid LEGO element is what you stated in your previous post?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/09/2003 21:25:11 GMT
        I am NOT the ultimate source. You should contact
        Scott Evans (evans@usfirst.org) for the final word.

        Since LEGO string is legal and it is not marked LEGO,
        my initial reply was not ultimately correct. If you
        had a LEGO part that was weird, I would 1) get Scott
        to say it is OK 2) Bring a picture of the LEGO part
        from a catalog or instructions to show the head ref if
        the issue came up.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/10/2003 23:22:10 GMT
          Thanks Skye, your suggestion about bringing in a image from a catalog is a good one. I also got confirmation from Scott that the following parts would be legal:
          ----------------------------
          (from my message to him) A few of examples would be the "cargo net" from the Priates Ambush LEGO Systems set, the square, thin, plastic sheet that is used in the Solar Explorer, Life On Mars set, and a thin plastic banner that says Octan on it from a race car pit area LEGO set...
          ----------------------------
          So, I guess that as long as the team members can identify the LEGO kit it came from and we can document it, we should be able to use unusual LEGO parts.


    2. Message by: candojrrobotics3320 11/22/2003 21:55:55 GMT
      Is a clear placic tube that came in a Mindstorms Robotics Invention System legal.


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 11/24/2003 14:16:07 GMT
        Personally, I am not familiar with the clear plastic tube that is in the RIS set. If the item is a Lego building element, then it is allowed. If, however, the item is part of the packing materials of the set, then it would not be allowed on a robot. A good way to determine which it is for the RIS set would be to look for the piece on the "inventory of parts" at the back of the RIS constructopedia. If it is not shown on the parts inventory, then it is part of the packaging materials. Similarly, things in the RIS set that are not building elements would not be allowed on the robot. (e.g. the Constructopedia or the CD-ROM.)

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    3. Message by: Mapcuanun 11/27/2003 00:38:47 GMT
      Oh no Ken! You have destroyed our strategy of using the cds as wheels!

      Marie - just kidding and very punchy!


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 11/27/2003 05:39:28 GMT
        Marie,

        Sorry about that! :-)

        However, for non-Lego contests, the CDs make great wheels! The Pitsco-Lego-Dacta catalog has some cool non-Lego kits which make various rubber-band or mousetrap vehicles that DO use CDs as wheels! Maybe a neat experiment for an FLL team in the off season?

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Challenge Kit Parts By: Mentor3180 10/11/2003 04:35:19 GMT
I am trying to find out where to order replacement parts from the challenge set. I have tried the pld page, but can't find some of the challenge set parts, specifically, the red ball. Anyone have any idea where to get these parts?

thanks,
adam

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/10/2003 02:59:54 GMT
    LEGO does not sell all parts in small collections or singly.
    Sometimes the only way to get a part is to buy a large kit.

    There is a vast network of individuals selling parts on the
    web. You can often buy just one part. Start at
    http://www.brinklink.com

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: Rusty Engineers 10/11/2003 03:13:31 GMT
      Skye:
      I think that link is spelled incorrectly.
      Should be: http://www.bricklink.com


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/11/2003 04:35:19 GMT
        It was and now its too late to edit! But, we have your
        correction to help people out. Thanks.

        -Skye


Discussion: Motors By: Galactic Knights 2207 12/12/2003 21:55:56 GMT
How do you test the strength of your motors so that they are equal ?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/10/2003 02:55:12 GMT
    This is covered in the FAQ at
    http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq/faq_robot.htm

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: cls1820 12/10/2003 22:29:37 GMT
      Can we have 3 motors at the table and have a motor where the rest of the team is???


    2. Message by: Legonauts4 12/11/2003 19:39:09 GMT
      If the rest of the team is back in the pits then the answer is yes. If the rest of the team is near the table, then the answer is no. That is the competition area and only three motors are allowed to be brought to the table (this is interpreted as for the entire 2:30 seconds).

      -Dave
      Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


    3. Message by: cls1820 12/12/2003 21:55:56 GMT
      Thanks


Discussion: Extra Parts By: The Mighty Jayhawks 11/12/2003 00:33:07 GMT
Just how many extra parts should you have when you are all done building the challenge kit? We seem to have quite a few. magnets, connectors, orange disks etc...

  1. Message by: AtomicOranges1367 10/15/2003 22:49:21 GMT
    Can you use other lego sets like bioncle


    1. Message by: harris-194 10/15/2003 22:54:27 GMT
      In Skye style -
      The short answer: yes
      To fully answer your question (and possibly others as well) take a look at the FAQ: http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq/

      Courtney
      Harris-194


    2. Message by: RoboMonkeys746 10/17/2003 04:32:10 GMT
      I really can't see how some NAP/Bionicle parts are not legal. If that were so, then Rule 5 should say so.

      Rule 5 clearly states the Robot must be made entirely of LEGO elements. Bionicle is made by Lego therefor they are technically "Lego parts". As long as they don't violate any other part or rule 5, they should be legal. Does anybody see any significant advantage using Bionicle parts?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/17/2003 13:22:37 GMT
        LEGO makes a wrist watch and an eraser. These are clearly
        not "LEGO Elements". Technik and basic LEGO clearly are.
        Bionicle is somewhat gray. When I wrote that section of the
        FAQ it was after a conversation with the official rule
        maker Scott Evans. If you wish to have him ellaborate, I
        would send him an email and post his reply.

        -Skye Sweeney


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/17/2003 14:57:41 GMT
        I agree that the ZNAP / Bionicle parts are very much in a "gray area" since "LEGO elements" (see Rule 5) are not clearly defined anywhere. Skye brings up a good point with the Lego watch and eraser that "Lego elements" clearly is not just anything made by Lego. (How about a Lego T-Shirt? :-)

        My perspective is that from a rules perspective a team would be on very safe ground to just avoid using any parts they acquired from a ZNAP / Bionicle kit. That said, however, I personally think the current phrasing allows ZNAP / Bionicle pieces, as I don't know how to interpret them as other than "Lego elements." I also believe that almost any other position is untenable, short of issuing a specific allowed parts list.

        Why do I think that the current phrasing should allow ZNAP / Bionicle pieces? I think the reason is that drawing a line anywhere else is almost unenforceable, and worse yet, leaves teams to design robots without knowing whether or not certain parts are allowed.

        Part of the trouble is that there isn't a clear definition of how a "ZNAP/Bionicle part" differs from a "traditional" Lego brick. This is further muddied by the fact that ZNAP/Bionicle parts are made to interlock and work with "traditional" Lego Bricks. Also, newer Lego kits are starting to have more and more overlap between the different kinds of connections. Sone of the newest Lego kits have almost none of the traditional "stud-based" Lego connections. (For example, check out Lego 8454 (Rescue Truck), which is a Lego Technic set with 634 pieces, where only 12 pieces utilize the traditional connection!)

        Anyway, my suggestions for this year in the absence of rules clarifications on "Lego elements" are as follows:

        * Avoid using strange or unusual elements if you can. If you see a strange or unusual element that you would like to use, is it possible to make a similar thing that fulfills the same function out of the kinds of pieces that are in the Lego Mindstorms kit? Can the team identify the principle demonstrated by the unusual element and build something that does the same thing?

        * If there is an unusual element that you would like to use, find out what kits it is in. See http://www.peeron.com/inv for a Lego inventory database. If the item is only in ZNAP / Bionicle kits, it would be safest to avoid its use. I personally think that the rules as currently written allow Lego ZNAP / Bionicle parts, but I agree that this area is a gray one; teams that use such parts on their robot may put themselves at risk.

        * Try not to get "wrapped around the axle" about this issue. I really don't think there is a "significant advantage" to using ZNAP / Bionicle parts. However, they sure do make some things easier! On the other hand, they open up the design space so wide that it is easy to have a team get lost in the multitude of available options. I think the fundamental problem is that the current term "Lego elements" is undefined. The only readily definable positions are either "All Lego Pieces," or "All Lego Pieces except those on a list" or "Only Lego Pieces on this list." The issue is especially muddied by new Lego pieces being introduced practically every time a new kit comes out...

        * Remember to have fun!

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    3. Message by: AMS Express 94 11/12/2003 00:33:07 GMT
      I do not see any big help for bionicle parts.


Discussion: Playing Field Equipment By: Crater Raiders 409 10/14/2003 23:32:43 GMT
Do you need to velcrow all the equipments to the playing field?

  1. Message by: RoboMonkeys746 10/14/2003 01:18:05 GMT

    Some yes and some no.

    See Mat & Borders



    1. Message by: Crater Raiders 409 10/14/2003 23:31:31 GMT
      Thank you very much!


Discussion: Different robots Switched between Rounds By: Beach Cities 2984 11/08/2003 05:54:02 GMT
I know that the robot is the sum of all parts brought to the table for a round, but we have three different designs and the kids want to try a different one each round. The "Extra" robots would be kept in the pit area during each round.
I believe this is allowable because the sum of the parts brought to the table are fewer than the amount listed in the "Allowable Parts Rule".
The solution they are going to do is rebuild the RCX/motor combo with the next set of chassis, manipulator, etc after each run because they thought they could only bring 1 RCX, 3 motors, 2 light sensors, etc to the the Tournament.
I thought I would ask about the multi RCX idea for them.



  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/16/2003 13:18:41 GMT
    You may bring as many bots as you want to a tournament.
    Each time you approach the table, the sum of parts must
    match the allowable parts rule. I have in the past had
    a hot spare in the pit. Nothing says that all robots have
    to be identical.

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: Reid Robotics 11/05/2003 17:20:31 GMT
      Iireadthatyoumaynotdothat


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/05/2003 17:38:01 GMT
        There is a big difference in swapping robots between rounds
        and during a round. Swapping robots between rounds is legal.
        Like I said, we have always had a spare bot back in the pits
        in case the prime robot died for some reason.

        Swapping robots during a round is legal only if the SUM
        of all the parts that you bring to the table meets the
        allowable parts rule (1 rcx, 3 motors, ...).

        -Skye


    2. Message by: Solar Sonics 4077 11/08/2003 05:48:51 GMT
      Hi! This is Bob from Oakway, SC Team NoName (soon to change, we have a name!) so let me see if this is correct: I have one team and five kits. are you saying I can build 5 robots and bring all five to the competition, but can only use one robot for each round, although it does not have to be the same robot each time?

      Inquiring kids want to know. Thanks,

      Bob


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/08/2003 05:54:02 GMT
        That is my understanding. Nothing in the rules say you can
        only bring one robot the the competition. The rules only
        say you can only bring one robot to the table to compete.
        So if you want to try out a couple of different bots during
        the day, go for it!

        FIRST is VERY interested in getting people to think outside
        the box. Most people read TOOOOOOO much into the rules.
        Do not make assumptions.

        -Skye


Discussion: playing field pieces have "disappeared" By: robertsrobotics1097 10/23/2003 18:07:56 GMT
Anyone know if it is possible to purchase or order individual replacement pieces for the playing field. We store our board, mat and pieces at our school in a storage area that is along side a classroom coat closet. My guess is someone was curious and took the pieces. They are the red ball and two of the boulders. Both would make nice toys for the playground. Any ideas of other Lego pieces that could be used as replacements or if you think we can purchase just these pieces from Pitsco?

Thanks
Laura
Roberts Robo Rovers

  1. Message by: Robosharks406 10/21/2003 15:17:40 GMT
    By all means, contact Pitsco and explain your situtation and the need to purchase the parts. In the meantime, I share with you my story...Two years ago I had the same thing happen to me. The situation was handled in several ways with the direct assistance of the assistant principal whom I reported the incident to immediately. All but 1 of 3 pieces were found and the culprit disciplined. However, since then my tables are covered by a large sheet of plastic or sheet when I am not teaching (ie, a substitute teacher). I also keep a hawk's eye on them at all times. In your situation, I would lock up all loose pieces and not give those curiousity seekers an open invitation. Covering all of your materials will still keep them dust and grime free. Good luck! Julia (Strafford Robosharks and Electrodes)


    1. Message by: Unidentified Flying Monkeys 3323 10/23/2003 18:07:56 GMT
      Our team has an extra set of playing field parts from a team that disbanded due to over-scheduling. We were planning to return the field and mat that we bought, but the models we got from the other team are missing several pieces. We would be willing to scavenge the parts from the incomplete set in return for a reasonable amount to defray the cost of our team's field pieces. If you want to do this, please email me at aj.mcentire@comcast.net with the pieces you need and we will look for the parts you need in our incomplete set.

      Regards,
      Ari McEntire


Discussion: Tetrahedron Base By: Crater Raiders 409 11/12/2003 15:25:58 GMT
After a round can we reset the Tetrahedron Base, so it is not in the way?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/21/2003 02:54:12 GMT
    No. If you asked the judge to reset it, it would not be
    down at the end of the 2.5 minutes when the judge scores
    the board as it looks at that moment.

    Why not just do the TET base mission latter in the round?

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Crater Raiders 409 10/21/2003 23:43:25 GMT
      Thank you very much this really help are team


    2. Message by: Biobots 876193 10/22/2003 23:31:08 GMT
      Can you add a jig or positioning mechanism to the Tetrahedron Base to make certain the robot is in the correct place to push the ramp down?


      1. Message by: Tharks1165 10/27/2003 23:03:34 GMT
        A jig on the tetrahedron base may NOT be allowed (well, it's allowed but may invalidate your knocking down the ramp and exiting the base).

        The mission description says the robot must COMPLETELY exit tetrahedron base and ramp to score. If you leave a jig on the platform the ref might rule that you did not completely exit the base.

        You should be able to place the jig, align the 'bot, remove the jig then hit the run button.


        1. Message by: Rusty Engineers 10/28/2003 00:29:28 GMT
          I don't think this is accurate. As long as your jig is not touching the ramp itself I think you can use one.
          Let me know if I am incorrect on this.


        2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/12/2003 15:25:58 GMT
          I have had this message bookmark for a while. I think that
          the answer lies in the definition of a robot. A robot is
          itself and any object connected to it. Since the mechanism
          is not connected and cannot be considered the robot itself,
          it does not have to fully come off the tet platform.

          This would be my INTERPRETATION of the rules.

          -Skye


    3. Message by: Legonauts4 10/22/2003 23:32:20 GMT
      That would be consistant with the rules. Just make sure the jig does not extend beyond the baseline.

      Dave
      Coach #4 & #2605


      1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/07/2003 01:21:36 GMT
        I would say that you wound not be allowed to jig it because the councler says (the instruction book) that you may not interfere while the robot is moving so you would not either be able to move the tetrahedrum base. And plus our tecrhedrum base is very weak so its not really nesscesary to move something if its very delicate. Oh I would say if you are talking about this that you should use wheels because treads give way to much weight but I don't think that only the builders (i'm the commmunacation specalist) see ya in another message or at the tournament bye bye bye


    4. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 10/23/2003 18:05:11 GMT
      I think what team 409 is asking is can the ramp be put back up after they come off the T-base. The answer would be no. You need the ramp down at the end of the 2 1/2 minutes in order for the judge to award those points for that mission. It was suggested elsewhere to complete that mission last so that it does not get in the way of other missions.


      1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/07/2003 01:23:41 GMT
        cool thanks for the tips


    5. Message by: AMS Express 94 11/12/2003 00:30:45 GMT
      correct it says in the rules that a jig is legle but if it extends beyond the base line the ref will call a rule.


Discussion: Additional Pieces on the Board By: HMS Raiders 427 10/24/2003 22:08:09 GMT
We created a bracing structure with Lego pieces to deliver objects on the game board. Can we leave it on the field?

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/24/2003 13:10:31 GMT
    Yes, you may leave Lego pieces out on the playing field.

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: HMS Raiders 427 10/24/2003 22:08:09 GMT
      Thanks A LOT!


Discussion: Motors losing torque, a common problem? By: Legomen2 11/11/2003 07:18:14 GMT
Our robot is having some odd problems, in the morning, with a rather bulky attactment (that hung off the side) it would do its program perfectly fine. But by the end of the day it had some major trouble turning (we are using treads, so what would happen is one motor would have problems reversing, causing a slow turn). After checking the phyiscal design of the robot we concluded that the motors were to blame (the batteries were just replaced and it still had problems). And all the other problems without big attactments worked perfectly fine
So basiclly my question is, has anyone else had problems with the motors losing torque? Is there something else that could be going wrong (it can't be the RCX because I have two of them and both had trouble).

Any help will be great appreciated

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/29/2003 05:23:12 GMT
    Tracked robots are notorious! First, the treads themselves
    sometimes take a 'set'. That is they take a shape that
    makes them hard to rotate into different positions.
    Second, when used with the standard white spokes, the
    spacing is fairly tight against the technic beam holes.
    This causes the axle to grind in the bearing and generate
    lots of yummy plastic dust that gums up the works. A good
    wipe down of the parts may help. Third, the electronic
    parts inside limit the current to the motors. A warm RCX
    will not provide quite as much current and hence torque
    as a cold RCX. Not noticable on a wheeled robot, but can
    be an issue on a heavy tracked bot.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Legomen2 10/29/2003 18:00:49 GMT
      Well, I completely rebuild the robot, and it is working better, but still not back to what it was. I found that the axle made a larger hole in the beam, and it had way too much slack. Thanks for the help (any more ideas would be apperciated)


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/29/2003 19:03:52 GMT
        Switch to wheel?
        -Skye


    2. Message by: Legomen2 10/30/2003 00:10:24 GMT
      I bit too late to change to wheels :) (though I remember the first year I did this (2001) we changed the design of the robot 2 weeks before the first tournament). We were considering wheels, but decided on treads for thier better cornering ability and more accurate turning. But of course, treads aren't perfect, so when they mess up, they mess up big time.


    3. Message by: electric sheep 467 11/01/2003 05:36:34 GMT
      I agree with the Tekno Devils,you should switch to wheels. One thing about treads is that we had trouble going down the T-base ramp. Another is that it gets stuck on the crater. Try the hoop wheels, they can hold alot, they are fast, and they can turn a tight circle. Our motor's lost some torque but I think we fixed it.


      1. Message by: Legomen2 11/01/2003 20:31:03 GMT
        Our treeds are really good at getting on/off the T-Ramp and the crater. And it is better at getting on the T-ramp at odd angles than wheels could ever be. But anyway, like I said before, it is a bit too late to switch now :) .


      2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/01/2003 20:40:25 GMT
        I did add a to my comments. At this point a team
        probably is fairly well locked into the solution they
        have. Not allways... .

        -Skye


    4. Message by: Bucket Kickers78 11/05/2003 02:40:30 GMT
      wheels are the best the dont have much problems and are easy to fix on i reccomend using wheels


    5. Message by: Robonauts 11/11/2003 07:18:14 GMT
      Definitely! We experienced the same problem and knew it was the motors because an identical robot design built from a brand new Mindstorms kit was smoking the three year old RCX. A quick order for new motors ($50 for 2 shipped overnight - ouch) had both robots performing similiar. After the competition, we will probably pull one of the old motors apart to examine it for wear and dirt on the brushes or commutator. Otherwise, always have the kids check their drivetrain to ensure that they did not overtighten any axles.


Discussion: Tacho 'wheel' By: Tekno Devils40 11/15/2003 00:03:12 GMT
I just placed an order at Pitsco and Shop-at-home. Part of the
order was a bag of 20 tacho wheels. Anybody know what these are
make for? They sound like a cheap man's rotation sensor.

Skye "I'll take a dozen of these, and ten of those, ..." Sweeney

  1. Message by: cybertigers1072 10/29/2003 18:55:40 GMT
    You can use them with a light sensor to make a rotation sensor.
    Might even work with the touch sensor.


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/29/2003 19:05:44 GMT
      Do you have any direct experience?
      How close would the light sensor have to be?
      Do you need to backlight it with a bulb?
      What was the sensitivity?

      -Skye "No access to LEGO right now" Sweeney


      1. Message by: thunderbolts-126 11/02/2003 15:24:29 GMT
        We have tried the Techo with a touch sensor as a rotation sensor. Works ok, very noisy.


      2. Message by: TeamTiger298 11/14/2003 21:57:15 GMT
        Skye,

        Stick a small axle between the tacho slots.
        The sensor deflection will now go from
        roughly 40% to 20% when it sees the black.
        Two Tachos stacked on eachother with the
        black axle and with the sensor looking at the
        "paddle wheel" works great. Without the
        axle the deflection is very weak. You
        can use as many axles as the wheel will
        accept or as few as you need to detect an
        event that corresponds to the rotation of
        the driving or driven gear that is on the
        same axle as the tacho.

        good luck
        -jim


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/14/2003 22:16:13 GMT
          Very cool trick! I did not think the contrast would be
          very good. But the black axle should fix the problem.

          We currently are using an axle toggle and a black 1*1
          round plate (button?). That works very well. Much better
          contrast than the mat!

          -Skye


          1. Message by: BNI927 11/14/2003 23:41:06 GMT
            I'm having a hard time visualizing how you all are suggesting to use this Lego element. While we don'ty plan to do this, it is interesting to me. Would anyone be willing to put up a web page with purty pichers on it so I can see what you are talking about?

            Thanks in advance.

            Dave "No mechanical aptitude" April
            Coach - Some Assembly Required


            1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/15/2003 00:03:12 GMT
              Perhaps in my free time!

              -Skye "Laughing hysterically" Sweeney


    2. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/30/2003 00:00:40 GMT
      I believe that is the little piece that looks a bit like a gear but isn't. There was one in the competition set this year. We tried it in combination with a light sensor and to make a reasonable rotation sensor. We decided not to use it because coordinating two rotation sensors was a bit beyond the programming skills of my team. The "wheel" has 8 bars and 8 slots so if you trigger on the transitions from light to dark and dark to light you can get 16 counts per rotation which matches the rotation sensor. We just used the light from the light sensor to illuminate. I also would recommend "boxing it up" so that stray light won't effect your readings.


    3. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/30/2003 00:06:27 GMT
      Oh, one more thing. Don't try to look though the wheel slots. It works better to turn it so it rotates across the sensor's view. Just measure the reflections off the bars.


Discussion: Not enough parts for Alliance Habituation By: Marskateers 11/25/2003 21:05:07 GMT
Hi, my team says they cannot find all the parts for the "Alliance Habituation Module". Does anyone know the best way to get the parts, FAST!!!

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/30/2003 21:38:36 GMT
    Sometimes a team might miss a part or two (but were they
    truly lost or just misplaced?). Call Pitsco-LEGO-Dacta.
    The number is in the Mars team folder.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 10/30/2003 22:11:53 GMT
      You should also check your robot! Being a new team the students did not realize that they could not mix the parts.


    2. Message by: 10/31/2003 00:36:06 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: Marskateers 10/31/2003 05:12:26 GMT
      Actually, we have almost completely finished building it. We improvised with different parts.

      I'm curious, though what is a PB and a J sandwich?
      :-)


    4. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/03/2003 21:59:19 GMT
      we had the same problem we called the company too. so your best bet is that.


    5. Message by: dh falcons 11/25/2003 21:05:07 GMT
      just go uy another kit


Discussion: Batteries By: firephantoms1219 11/03/2003 13:47:16 GMT
I bought 12 rechargeable 1.2V NIMH batteries to use. I didn't realize they were 1.2V. We have two RCX's. The first set I installed are working fine so far (two meetings with the kids). The second set won't work properly. The battery light flashes on the RCX and it shuts down. I recharged them again and trying it again and it worked for about 5 minutes then the same thing happened. I got the impression from some of the other leaders that this type would owrk OK. What do you think?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/30/2003 22:39:10 GMT
    1) It should work ok.
    2) Swap the 'bad' set for the good. Did the problem follow
    the RCX or the batteries?
    3) If the problem followed the set of batteries, you probably
    have a bad cell.
    4) If the problem followed the RCX, I am sorry. You might
    have a bad one.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/30/2003 23:49:42 GMT
      Firephantoms:

      Assuming that the problem ends up following the batteries, you can find the bad cell by checking the voltage on each of the batteries (when the RCX is having the problem.) You will need a voltmeter to do this.

      I wish you the best -- the team I coach encountered a couple bad rechargeable batteries this year, as well.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    2. Message by: firephantoms1219 10/31/2003 05:20:18 GMT
      Thanks for your quick response and suggestions I will try them. Also thanks for your diligence in answering so many messages.


    3. Message by: Oakview Martrix Team 11/03/2003 05:02:35 GMT
      Anyway, are we allowed to use rechargeable battereys?

      Thanks


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/03/2003 13:47:16 GMT
        Yes.
        -Skye


Discussion: Installing RoboLab to iBooks By: Orono Team 1 10/31/2003 01:01:56 GMT
There are a number of teams in Maine running into problems with installation of RoboLab on the State's (MLTI) laptops that every 7th and 8th grader has. Because they are all locked down, installation occurs under admin, but is supposed to be run under the student's login. Even when installed/and started under Native OS (9) the program can only be run under admin. It fails to properly load within the Student permissions.

Any help on solving this problem would be most appreciated.

Tom Bickford, State Partner for Maine

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/30/2003 23:52:41 GMT
    I seem to recall seeing a message on the Tufts/Robolab site describing what you describe. Check out the following link to see if this is the solution to your problem:

    http://www.ceeo.tufts.edu/robolabatceeo/Resources/downloads/2000_XP_NTFSfix.asp

    If the above doesn't solve it, you may want to try upgrading one of the machines to the latest patch level. See the URL below:

    http://www.ceeo.tufts.edu/robolabatceeo/Resources/Service_Pack/default.asp

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 10/31/2003 01:01:56 GMT
      I too had this problem and had to have the computers taken off of the network and administrator. I now have 3 that are set up this way and they are the ones we use. If you are able to figure it out using the admin left on, please let me know so I can do it next year, because all 6 & 7 graders will have the laptops for school/personal use.


Discussion: Building instructions for missions By: MUSTANGS 11/06/2003 20:00:57 GMT
Could you please tell me where the building instructions for the missions for the mars challenge are located?
Thank You

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/31/2003 21:35:46 GMT
    On the CD that came in the mission challenge box.
    -Skye


    1. Message by: Roboraptors1742 11/04/2003 20:41:05 GMT
      Hello, We have misplaced our cd and need instructions for the Alliance Mission. Can anyone provide just that part? Thank you, Linda


      1. Message by: harris-194 11/04/2003 20:58:01 GMT
        Instructions on the way to your e-mail box. They are big (22Mb) so I hope it makes it.

        Courtney
        Harris-194


        1. Message by: harris-194 11/04/2003 22:24:59 GMT
          Sorry, it was too big to get through mail. I'll try attaching it.

          Courtney
          Harris-194


          1. Message by: Roboraptors1742 11/06/2003 17:18:18 GMT
            Thank you for sending this. However, I can't read it. Through Adobe reader, I get an error saying the file is corrupted. I was able to open all of the modules from the CD previously. Was there software included on the cd that allowed this? Your help is gratefully appreciated.

            Thanks, Linda


            1. Message by: harris-194 11/06/2003 18:05:05 GMT
              I don't think it's a problem with your Acrobat reader. The file is simply too big to post. When I submitted the previous message with the attachment the browser was "busy" for ages. I think it must have timed out or something.

              Courtney
              Harris-194


              1. Message by: Roboraptors1742 11/06/2003 18:47:43 GMT
                Thank you for all of your trouble. I guess I better search harder for that darn CD.


                1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/06/2003 20:00:57 GMT
                  If it helps, It came in a paper sleeve inside the box with
                  all the LEGO for the field pieces (challenge kit). Not in
                  the bigger box that has the LEGO for the RCX.

                  -Skye


    2. Message by: Discovery3739 11/06/2003 08:30:16 GMT
      I am hoping someone will take pity on us, since our district coordinator somehow ordered the wrong challenge kit part number and ours didn't come with the cd and building instructions. I could pull them off an ftp site, or maybe someone has posted the instructions somewhere? We are getting desperate waiting for the mail... and its November!


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/06/2003 13:52:36 GMT
        I was not aware that the challenge kit could be ordered
        without the instructions. My guess is your coordinator
        did not order the challenge kit at all! In this case, the
        instructions will do you little good as you will not have
        all the parts needed to build the models.

        As has been discovered, the files are very large and do
        not email well. The files are even too large to put on
        my web site (even if I could legaly). Perhaps a team close
        to you can lend you the CD.

        -Skye


Discussion: Additional IR tower By: andover722 11/02/2003 02:29:43 GMT
Is there somehwere that I can purchase an addictional IR tower, preferably a USB one? I have looked at the LEGO store online and cannot find them.

  1. Message by: AKEEMA 23 11/02/2003 00:42:50 GMT
    There is one available on E-Bay (a Buy It Now item) for $34.95. Item number is 3152287576.

    AKEEMA 23
    Martian Exchange Students 25


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/02/2003 01:11:17 GMT
      They are available new from Pitsco LEGO Dacta.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 11/02/2003 02:29:43 GMT
      Pitsco Lego Educational Division has these for sale at their online store. See the link below for the IR towers:

      http://www.pldstore.com/pld/finditem.cfm?itemid=1001

      They are $29.99 plus shipping from Pitsco / Lego.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Rotation Sensors By: The Dust Devils1053 11/20/2003 04:47:41 GMT
Could anyone explain to me how a rotation sensors work?

  1. Message by: Wildcats1099 11/20/2003 04:47:08 GMT
    The rotation sensor counts to 16 for each full revolution. You can use this to control how far a motor turns. If you want to understand the internal circuitry of it, there is an explanation at http://www.hightechkids.org/fll/coaching/Training%20Material/Classdownloads/BLRforFLLV1.0.pdf. It's hard to give you a more detailed answer without knowing what type of issues you're having with it.
    Monica


Discussion: Battery life impact on rotation sensor? By: RoboMatrix 12/10/2003 04:54:35 GMT
We have been programming using the rotation sensor extensively. After working for a few hours on a third mission, we went back to run missions in program slots 1 & 2 and found them coming up a little short.

Have others had problems like this when using the rotation sensor? We experienced the decline in distances travelled using the timing sensor and have plotted that out graphically. Should we expect some similar experience with the rotation sensor effectiveness when the batteries have been used for about 4 hours?

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 11/25/2003 19:14:46 GMT
    Battery life effects everything you do. Have you noticed that when you stop using the rotation that a display of the rotation will show that the rotation is not what you stopped at? How much overshoot you have is a function of how quickly you can stop. One factor in this is the speed the robot is going when you ask it to stop. The robot has momentum and this will change with speed and therefore battery voltage. You can not stop the robot instantaneously and therefore you will always have some overshoot. One thing you can do is determine how many runs you can get out of a set of batteries and just keep changing them when you have reached your limit. It would be difficult but not impossible to adapt your program to account for this variability and reduce or eliminate it.

    -Dave
    Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


    1. Message by: RoboMatrix 11/25/2003 21:23:14 GMT
      Thanks for the observations. And yes, one of our team members noticed the rotation display not matching the program rotation. As you suggest, the actual rotations overshoot a bit. We will replace all the batteries and see if the original programs will still function accurately. We'll also start logging mission runs.

      This is a first year team and I am a first year coach. We are learning a lot! Thanks again for the input.

      Mark - Robomatrix


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/25/2003 21:42:19 GMT
        Are you using RIS or RoboLab? If you are using RoboLab
        there is another reason that the robot does not stop
        right on your target value. Luckly, this can be corrected.

        It is an advanced concept but one that can improve your
        accuracy considerably. Let me know....

        -Skye


        1. Message by: RoboMatrix 11/26/2003 00:19:36 GMT
          We are using Robolab. I am all ears! \/

          Mark


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/26/2003 01:30:02 GMT
            I can only assume you are using the RoboLab Waitfor icons.
            If you double click the icon, it will open up a subvi.
            (DO NOT EDIT THIS SUBVI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
            This subvi is what RoboLab does to accomplish the wait.
            It is a 'spin loop'. In other terms, it sits in an infinite
            loop testing the sensor for a paticular condition. When
            true, it bails out of the loop. The 'problem' is that
            they put a 2/100 second pause inside the loop. This means
            that you will not sample the rotation sensor as fast as
            possible.

            The solution is to make your own spin loops without the
            2/100 second delay. This workds great for the light sensors
            and touch sensors. The rotation sensor has the added complexity
            that it can go both positive or negative. The RoboLab icon
            hides this from you by taking the absolute value. And guess
            what, that slows down the sample rate even more. So, if you
            can get your minds around that issue, you can improve the
            accuracy.

            -Skye

            PS: This is a trick Ken taught me!


    2. Message by: Mapcuanun 11/27/2003 00:42:00 GMT
      Whoo hoo! I like this one Skye! Now to really bend the minds of my advanced programmers!! Wheeee!

      Marie


    3. Message by: fvlego2261 12/10/2003 01:52:37 GMT
      Any speculation on why these 2/100 delays are present in the Robolab "wait fors"? Were you successful eliminating the delay completely or did you need to shrink the delay value? Seems like eliminating the delay might lead to some very difficult to diagnose resource contention issues.

      Thanks for any insight.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/10/2003 04:54:35 GMT
        I will guess that the 2/100 was added to prevent issues
        when multiple threads are running. My guess is the developers
        did not want to hog all the processor power away from another
        thread. But from what I understand of the disassembly of
        the firmware, the multitasker should not be effected. We
        have removed the 2/100 from out COPIES of these icons and
        have seen no ill effects even when running multiple threads.

        What we do see is greatly increased responce times!

        -Skye


Discussion: Locked Programs By: LegoPussycats3264 12/03/2003 21:35:11 GMT
Help!

One our RCXs, when we try to download programs into slots 1 or 2, we get an error message saying that they are locked. How do we unlock the slots so that they can be programmed?

Thanks!

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/03/2003 03:49:52 GMT
    Please tell us what language are you using? RIS or Robolab.
    It is different for both, but basicaly under administrator
    or options you will find the switch.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: LegoPussycats3264 12/03/2003 21:35:11 GMT
      We found it. We are using Robolab and found it under the administrator settings. Thanks for the help!


Discussion: Solar Panel Dust By: Robodogs2570 12/07/2003 00:37:19 GMT
Does any one know if the dust on the solar panel is going to be standing up or lying on it's side?

  1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 12/07/2003 00:37:19 GMT
    See "Exit the Tetrahedron Base."

    Could we pick our robot up without penalty if it is on base? - See Rule 19.

    - Mark Beitz, coach


Discussion: Motors at table By: cls1820 12/12/2003 21:51:18 GMT
Can you have 3 motors at the table and have one where the rest of the team is?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/10/2003 22:26:14 GMT
    If it is someones pocket and NEVER EVER used at the table
    during that round, there is no problem. The referees may
    be strict, but they will not be conducting body searches!

    But don't think you can take the robot away from the table
    and swap out a motor!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: cls1820 12/12/2003 21:51:18 GMT
      Darn :( Thanks anyway.


Discussion: Lost communication with Spirit By: Tekno Devils40 01/22/2004 21:35:15 GMT
January 22, 2004

NASA scientist reveil that they have lost communications with
the Spirit mars rover. It has been over 24 hours since any
non garbage data has been received. They are investigating
what type of hardware or software failure could explain the
problem.

It is rummored that thousands of FLL team members around the
world are tying up the phone lines at NASA. They are all trying
to tell NASA that some Martian just took a flash photo of the
rover. Dr. Justin Case is reputed to be on route to NASA to
explain to them the proper way to download new firmware. Just
before he was whisked away by helicopter he was overheard
saying "Make sure you have the latest version of RoboLab
waiting for me when I get there".

-Skye "With deep concern" Sweeney


Folder: Florida 12/20/2003 15:29:26 GMT


Discussion: Thunder Rumble MOSI Tournament By: R2D2Firedroids 12/04/2003 21:46:08 GMT
Does anyone know whether Raytheon will sponsor the MOSI FLL Tournament again this year? If so, do you know the date?

  1. Message by: Giggly Galaxy Girls 1681 09/08/2003 02:24:59 GMT
    We haven't seen or heard about the tournament. Hopefully they will put it on again.


    1. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 09/15/2003 14:49:06 GMT
      hey


    2. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 09/15/2003 14:49:23 GMT
      wats goin on


    3. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 09/15/2003 14:50:51 GMT
      r u guys nerds


      1. Message by: JRCOMETS 10/06/2003 21:49:02 GMT
        no but odviously you are butthead


      2. Message by: TheLegoWorks1859 12/04/2003 21:46:08 GMT
        i m not


    4. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 09/15/2003 14:51:16 GMT
      wats goin on


    5. Message by: brainstormers136 09/16/2003 03:54:03 GMT
      This summer I took my team to Lego robotic practice at MOSI and I inquired about the tournament. It looks that MOSI is not going to host the tournament this year. :( but I could be just a rumor.


    6. Message by: 10/06/2003 21:46:36 GMT
      Deleted


    7. Message by: 10/06/2003 21:47:53 GMT
      Deleted


    8. Message by: 10/16/2003 02:40:59 GMT
      Deleted


    9. Message by: williamsteam1364 11/10/2003 22:49:37 GMT
      The Raytheon Tournament is going to take place. They are focusing on admitting teams not currently registered in other events since its been so difficult to get into one in Florida this year.

      suzy


    10. Message by: RoboSquad1889 11/25/2003 03:48:56 GMT
      Robosquad1889

      Is Raytheon going to host a tournament this season? We just competed for the 1st time at Crystal Lake and had a BLAST!


    11. Message by: frogbots2327 11/30/2003 15:47:51 GMT
      Hello Everyone,
      We are the FROG-BOTS from Martin County. We just competed for our first time, had a blast, and would be interested in the tournament your talking about with Raytheon. Can you let us know if anything comes of it?
      Coach Call


    12. Message by: TheLegoWorks1859 12/04/2003 21:44:26 GMT
      no


Discussion: hey By: ToxicLawnGnomes624 12/20/2003 15:29:26 GMT
hey hows it goin in florida

  1. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 09/15/2003 14:47:04 GMT
    u there??


    1. Message by: 09/15/2003 14:47:57 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: Robostrykers2418 09/19/2003 00:18:40 GMT
      its cool were you at


    3. Message by: Robostrykers2418 09/19/2003 00:20:36 GMT
      hey whats up


    4. Message by: visionaries 09/24/2003 17:42:59 GMT
      hello everybody


    5. Message by: visionaries 09/24/2003 17:44:27 GMT
      hi everybody!!!

      We are 4 students and we come from Quebec city.
      We hope to see you ate the competition and write us back as soon as possible!!

      Thanksj


      1. Message by: Gatorbots2169 10/03/2003 00:34:28 GMT
        Hi we are a big team that has just converted into 2 teams today. We are from Texas. We are working on getting the software and building down. We will be ready in time for the competition. We hope to see you there, but be ready for a challenge!!!!!!!!!! write back
        Gatorbots


    6. Message by: Jr Comets III 09/24/2003 20:49:14 GMT
      i'M NOT mEXICAN


    7. Message by: Jr Comets III 09/24/2003 20:50:06 GMT
      i'M NOT MEXICAN


      1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 11/06/2003 14:01:21 GMT
        hey biohazards why on earth did your team name get renamed thats not vilent


    8. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:25:11 GMT
      We r from MI. Hi every one! Good luck 2 every one heee!!!!

      :-)


    9. Message by: metal martians 2537 10/21/2003 01:05:03 GMT
      Hi team from MI! We are the Metal Martians from Ajax,Canada. We are beginners and we are very competitive and hope you do well!


      1. Message by: Marbots 10/21/2003 22:26:31 GMT
        i hope you do well too. thanks for the support. i hope we can meet in person?
        I hope to see you there.


      2. Message by: Roadrunners3793 11/15/2003 02:53:55 GMT
        hey! we r the roadrunners3793, but we might change our name. We are also begginers and are very competative. We hope you do well on the tournament!


    10. Message by: WeR4Geeekx 11/22/2003 03:54:03 GMT
      which one and where??? we will be at the one on dec.6 in Florida


    11. Message by: Roadrunners3793 12/09/2003 23:47:57 GMT
      We will be going to the January 4th tournament in Melbourne. Is anyone else going to be there? We can't wait!!!


      1. Message by: RoboMonkeys746 12/20/2003 15:29:26 GMT
        I have 2 RoboMonkey teams going as well. RoboMonkeys 746 and Robomonkeys Jr 2218. 746 won the Directors award and will be representing Treasure Coast at the state competition.

        Be sure to drop by our pit table to pickup one of our buttons.

        Charlie
        Coach Robomonkeys 746
        Mentor Robomonkeys 2218


Discussion: hey By: ToxicLawnGnomes624 11/15/2003 02:58:34 GMT
hey hows it goin in florida

  1. Message by: Robostrykers2418 09/19/2003 00:23:20 GMT
    ok


    1. Message by: Elkhorn Eliminators742 11/11/2003 00:07:41 GMT
      Hey


    2. Message by: ViperHawk880 11/14/2003 18:47:26 GMT
      hay from Canada aye when is your tourniment? how far are you in your programing aye?


      1. Message by: Roadrunners3793 11/15/2003 02:58:34 GMT
        Well, hi. our tournament is..I think it is around January(that's when we are having winter break). Hey when is your tournament?

        we have just practily started but we have gine pretty far. How far have you done in programing?


Discussion: Time Limit By: Giggly Galaxy Girls 1681 09/19/2003 00:22:11 GMT
Has anyone seen a time limit rule yet? If so how long do we have to do all of the missions?

  1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 09/16/2003 04:57:04 GMT
    The website says 2 1/2 minutes to get as much done as possible...

    Les Turner
    195 - The Bremen Botz!


    1. Message by: Giggly Galaxy Girls 1681 09/16/2003 17:16:38 GMT
      Thank you! Being so giggly we missed that one.


    2. Message by: Robostrykers2418 09/19/2003 00:22:11 GMT
      wasap


Discussion: Missions By: Crater Raiders 409 10/30/2003 20:40:45 GMT
For every missions do we need to start at the base?

  1. Message by: R2D2Firedroids 10/13/2003 18:38:02 GMT
    Yes Crater Raiders, each mission must start in the base. See the Rules 9-15 at http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11250.

    We were unsure about this as well last year. There are some videos in the forum that are most helpful. Have you seen them? If not let me know and I'll find the site for you.
    Dr. Paul the Know it All
    R2-D2 Firedroids
    thedoctor451@hotmail.com


    1. Message by: Giggly Galaxy Girls 1681 10/15/2003 03:03:30 GMT
      You can put as many missions as you want in one program. So if you have the ramp, solar panel, and habitat in one program have your robot go out perform those tasks come back to base and try to do another combo. Good luck and we hope to see you and the tournaments.


      1. Message by: churchill4/5martians 10/30/2003 19:35:33 GMT
        thanks for your great tips becasue were just starting oh and were from Canada there is a huge argument with are team members exept us to that are sending this
        you guys should use treads instead of tires


    2. Message by: churchill4/5martians 10/30/2003 19:31:49 GMT
      hey
      i don't understand what you are trying to tell me
      what kind of videos are you talking about
      were they in the box?
      becasue we didnt get one either


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/30/2003 20:40:45 GMT
        The videos that the earlier poster was referring to are some
        videos of last year's competition. These videos would help to give a novice team an example of how the robots go "out and back" from the base, accomplishing one or more "missions" during each trip. See
        this link for the discussions with last year's videos.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    3. Message by: Giggly Galaxy Girls 1681 10/30/2003 20:18:35 GMT
      We found that treads are great for accuracy but not for speed. We are using the big wheels on the back and sleds for the front. You all know about sleds in Canada better than we do in Florida. If you use wheels on the front we found that using just the plastic part is better. We couldn't move directions with our robot. There was to much friction.
      Good luck!
      Hope to hear from you again.
      Where in Canada are you from?


Discussion: Scoring By: Mars Monkeys 2278 12/16/2003 02:29:09 GMT
During competition, if your robot completes one mission and stops running, do you lose points for picking it up and moving it back to base to start another mission? We know that we lose points (or boulders) for picking up the robot before it stops, but are confused about this other situation.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/15/2003 23:30:23 GMT
    You loose a rock each time the robot fails to make it back
    to base under its own power. It makes no difference if you
    managed to perform a mission or not. The only exception is
    the crater mission. In this case, the robot needs to be
    in the crater at he end of the time limit to get the points.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Giggly Galaxy Girls 1681 12/16/2003 02:29:09 GMT
      If you pick up the ice cores then get stuck on the course and pick up the robot no points are awarded. The ice cores are not reset either. The only task that will be reset is launching the ball. Since it starts in base it can be picked up and tried again. Do as many missions in one program as possible. This will help save time.
      Hope to see you at state.


Discussion: The Base By: Crater Raiders 409 12/19/2003 16:21:22 GMT
do we need to get the robot back to base on its own power once it finishes the missions.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/16/2003 22:43:31 GMT
    Yes, no, maybe.

    IF the robot does not make it back to the base under its
    own power, AND you elect to pick it up and return in
    by hand, THEN you will loose one rock.

    If the robot is carrying and object, you may or may not get
    to keep it depending on where the object started. Read the
    rules carefully.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Crater Raiders 409 12/19/2003 16:21:22 GMT
      Thank you very much this answer help my team a lot.



Folder: Georgia 12/27/2003 03:53:13 GMT


Discussion: Registering for Georgia compitition By: Firebirds1710 09/17/2003 22:08:15 GMT
This may seem like a silly question, but I am having trouble registering for the Georgia State competition. I have the date of the competition, when I click on the event from the "events and teams" section, I am taken to an international page, how do I register for the event?

Thanks for your help

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 09/16/2003 19:21:56 GMT
    Registration for State Tournaments is not up yet. Registration for tournaments is October 6 - 17th.

    Dave Kolberg
    4 - Explorers
    2605 - Lyons


    1. Message by: Cyberhorses1904 09/17/2003 22:08:15 GMT
      Hey,can we create a homepage


Discussion: Having Fun By: Fernbank Marsbots 10/04/2003 21:46:21 GMT
Checking to see if this works.

nasa.gov

Discussion: Hay from canada By: ViperHawk880 12/27/2003 03:53:13 GMT
Hay form Canada ayh. how is your programing coming? Whet is your tourniment ayh

  1. Message by: crusaders2601 12/27/2003 03:53:13 GMT
    Hey Georgia we're from Newfoundland and we're representing Eastern Canada in your upcoming tournamnt in April. We'll see you there, eh

    Peace Out, eh



Folder: Hawaii 12/04/2003 22:00:51 GMT


Discussion: what is your robot like By: Blaine bat heads 12/04/2003 22:00:51 GMT


  1. Message by: Martian Bulldogs 201 11/05/2003 01:11:35 GMT
    Our robot is awesome, it has a scraper for the specks of dust on top of the solar panel.


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/05/2003 21:53:53 GMT
      Our origianl deghin is the big wheels


    2. Message by: ELS MARTIANS2562 11/19/2003 19:21:27 GMT
      Hope everyone is completing all the missions successfully.
      We are having some trouble with a few.
      ELS Martians LaFollette, TN


      1. Message by: TheLegoWorks1859 12/04/2003 22:00:51 GMT
        thank you



Folder: HELP!!! Is anyone else doing Ice Cores? 10/22/2004 01:02:50 GMT
We are really lost and confused! :( Please help....

Discussion: What kind of help? By: Robocats1628 10/22/2004 01:02:50 GMT
You will need to be more specific than that. What kind of help do you need? Are you looking for places to find good research material? (Public library, web search on "Mars AND Ice Core", NASA websites) Do you want to know how to put the project together? (See FLL rules)

If you ask a more specific question, you have a better chance of getting a useful answer.

  1. Message by: dh falcons 11/26/2003 21:03:33 GMT
    the ice cores should be atteptemted with a long rod


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/26/2003 22:36:09 GMT
      Um,I dont want to be rude,but what question?There is nothing here


    2. Message by: TechSavvy741 01/15/2004 23:11:03 GMT
      we have a two prong hook


    3. Message by: Blaine bat heads 01/16/2004 21:25:37 GMT
      i agree.


    4. Message by: 10/22/2004 01:02:50 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: Ice cores By: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 01/15/2004 23:06:35 GMT
Yes we are we've gotten 2 of them we're doing good
good luck

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/17/2003 22:22:27 GMT
    were on our 5th good luck to you


    1. Message by: spiritofmars2435 11/21/2003 04:58:02 GMT
      We also can get two and bring them back to base. The third one we decided not to waste our 2.5 minutes on. We prioritized by time and threw out anything which could not get us at least 2 pts per second. We get the two by lifting them with a long lego stick and return to base with them. Hope this helps!


    2. Message by: Alien Youth 1313 11/24/2003 01:57:57 GMT
      all three all the way! and we get the rover down.


    3. Message by: TechSavvy741 01/15/2004 23:04:16 GMT
      We've got all three but its okay everybody is doing their best we also have the rover in base


    4. Message by: 01/15/2004 23:04:59 GMT
      Deleted



Folder: Homeschool 02/01/2004 08:06:03 GMT


Discussion: Hello Homeschoolers By: PIRATES 8 02/01/2004 08:06:03 GMT
Hello fellow homeschoolers.

  1. Message by: 09/15/2003 06:16:53 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: InterplanetaryArgonauts287 09/16/2003 00:12:28 GMT
      Hi homeschoolers,

      We are a homeschool team just outside Seattle, WA.


      1. Message by: ThreeAmigos1812 09/16/2003 04:37:33 GMT
        We are a homeschool team in Olympia, WA. Are you a rookie team or have you done this before?

        We participated last year, and went to the tournament in Bellevue. How many on your team?

        Have you gotten your mat and challenge set yet? We are still waiting and trying to learn new stuff each time we meet.

        Nice to meet you.


    2. Message by: InterplanetaryArgonauts287 09/16/2003 19:47:45 GMT
      We competed in FLL in GA last year and SC the year before. We have moved a few times in the last couple of years.

      Right now we only have 3 on our team. We got our challenge set a couple of weeks ago. A friend with a team number in the 1900s got her shipment confirmation today, so hopefully yours will be on the way soon.

      Nice to see another homeschool team in the area.


    3. Message by: martian argonauts 09/16/2003 22:29:56 GMT
      hello homeschoolers,

      we are a home school team from outside atlanta GA


    4. Message by: Salt&Light Robotics 11/12/2002 09:35:58 GMT
      Hello. We are a home school team in S-W Pa. Last year was our first time. We achieved the 3rd place trophy for research at the state tourney in Pitt. The robot performed ok. Most of the awards went to fellow home school teams so we are a group to be reconded with. Good luck to all and may the Lord Bless you and your efforts.


      1. Message by: lcorbiters3607 11/05/2003 03:04:05 GMT
        have you read pendragon.


    5. Message by: TeamCornerstone 09/17/2003 17:22:51 GMT
      Hi are a home school team from Brighton MI we started at arctic impact. We have been blessed by the Lord God to go to state 2 years in a row.


      1. Message by: 11/05/2003 03:04:57 GMT
        Deleted


    6. Message by: Debugs483 09/17/2003 18:52:11 GMT
      Hey fellow homeschoolers!

      We're a family team of four ( + coach and mentor which would actually make us six... )from Anchorage, AK. Last year we placed third, and won the Robust Design Award. This is out second year, and it looks great!


      1. Message by: 11/05/2003 03:05:52 GMT
        Deleted


    7. Message by: homeschoolheroes1226 09/17/2003 22:34:54 GMT
      Hi all. We are a home school team from Charleston, WV. This is our second year and the team is really excited. Last year we went to Pittsburgh and met the Salt & Light team. Boy did they know what they were doing. This year we have our own tournament in West Virginia so we will miss seeing you again. Good Luck to all and, since we have the brightest and best, lets use this as a stepping stone to MIT and beyond.


    8. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 09/24/2003 01:55:23 GMT
      Hello everyone! We are a mostly home school team from the James town, Ohio area, near Day ton. This is our second year, and I can really tell a difference in our team already. We are ready for more advanced programming and building this year. I hope you all do well.


    9. Message by: Club BOB 09/25/2003 18:45:33 GMT
      Howdy from Texas!

      I'm Susan Frederick and last season coached Team BOB, a homeschool team from all over the Houston area. I've been involved with FLL for about 4 years now. Last year our team won the Director's Award in Texas and at the nationals won the Research Award.

      We have Club BOB, an informal group for parents and kids to learn about robotics. This year I'm not hosting a team but have helped other teams get started and will help with mentoring other teams.

      We also have a robotics mailing list that anyone is welcome to join, we have people from all over, not just homeschoolers.
      http://www.jsoft.com/archive/robotics/

      FLL is a lot fun, we've learned a lot from the experience.

      Good luck to everyone this year.

      thanks,

      Susan
      Club BOB
      sjf@jsoft.com


    10. Message by: Club BOB 09/25/2003 18:53:58 GMT
      One other thing, one of main Team BOB members just moved to the Seattle area this summer. They were a big help to us - the Jorna family.

      They went to 2 competitions in Arkansas, Houston both state and national and they came to help out the Dallas competiton.

      When we started we were really lost but figured it out together. the Jorna's built our practice table and their son was one of the 2 team members up at the table each time. Very important part of our team each year. Lots of experience with FLL. Lori helped us quite a bit with fundraising through Chickfila calendars. She was sad to hear that Seattle has no stores.

      Anyway, enjoy the challenge, it's a real learning experience for both parents and kids.

      thanks,

      Susan
      Club BOB


    11. Message by: Techno Saints 961 10/02/2003 04:22:58 GMT
      Hello!

      We are mostly a home school team from Raymond New Hampshire. We are a rookie team of 7 children. We are a little overwhelmed, but are hopeful, with the Lords help, that we will get it together in time.


    12. Message by: Club BOB 10/08/2003 07:52:07 GMT
      Have fun! Try to break down the challenge into small task and be creative with your research.

      7 is a good number, I've done both big teams and small teams. With a smaller team I think the kids get more out of it and you have an easier time with crowd control issues.

      The first time we went to a competiton we had never seen one before but we did fine.

      Susan


    13. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/17/2003 14:50:47 GMT
      what? hi ok bye......


    14. Message by: thearmyoftheLord2882 10/22/2003 22:53:24 GMT
      Hello we are homeschoolers from Pittsburgh PA. We are having trouble with our robot design. Can you give us some suggestions?


      1. Message by: ThreeAmigos1812 10/23/2003 07:25:46 GMT
        We usually start with a driving base or robot in the Constructopedia and then go from there.


    15. Message by: TheLegoWorks1859 10/30/2003 20:19:25 GMT
      Hello! Our team has 7 memebers on it and 4 of us are homeschoolers. My little sister, my little brother, and i are all on the team. My friends little brother is also on the team. We all enjoy homeschooling. Do you? It gives us more time to spend on things like our research project. My sister and I are doing some research right now actually.
      Bye from Newark OH!


    16. Message by: NASA 2034 11/01/2003 17:05:21 GMT
      NASA 2034 needs help!!! Were in MI. and have major Ice core problems. Please help .


      1. Message by: Sci-bots376 11/13/2003 17:46:51 GMT
        What do you need?
        We are in Knoxville TN and if our
        homeschool team can help they would like
        to. This is the 2nd year and they are really
        working well together.

        My husband and I insist on the kids doing 99.9%
        of the work themselves. Last year they did the same
        and still heard comments (though not to the face)
        about the parent/coach doing all the work.
        Not this team!


    17. Message by: NASA 2034 11/01/2003 17:07:23 GMT
      HOME SCHOOL STINKS AND I"M NOT IN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


      1. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 11/19/2003 14:47:49 GMT
        Interesting... how would you know that it stinks if you haven't ever done it?


        1. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 11/19/2003 14:49:47 GMT
          Perhaps if you homeschooled you wouldn't be having ice core problems. (no joke)


        2. Message by: TheLegoWorks1859 12/05/2003 23:51:12 GMT
          I love your second line of information! It's sooooooo (etc.) cool! I love home schooling. Though I would do anything to go to school for a week. I get to travel for my dancing and if I was in school I couldn't do that. So I wouldn't be where I am in my dancing. Plus, since I am home schooled I could excel in reading and English so, I'm in 9th grade level reading and 8th grade English. & I'm in 7th grade.
          Bye!
          LegoWorks


    18. Message by: 11/05/2003 03:06:51 GMT
      Deleted


    19. Message by: 11/05/2003 03:07:31 GMT
      Deleted


    20. Message by: lcorbiters3607 11/05/2003 03:43:58 GMT
      Hello. We are not homeschoolers, but maybe you could help us. We need help (and a good explaniation) on how to move the bolders in to the launch circle. If you could help us we would appreaciate it a lot.

      Thanks!

      LC Orbiters


      1. Message by: Sci-bots376 11/13/2003 17:39:24 GMT
        If your robot sits low enough you may be able
        to just 'push' the rocks. A snow plow type of set up
        will do the same. Good Luck!
        Homeschool team 376


    21. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 11/19/2003 14:43:04 GMT
      Home schooling... is that... legal? Isn't that just something from the 1700s?

      Just kidding, we are homeschoolers and proud to be. We live in Columbus Ohio. Any other teams from Ohio?


    22. Message by: TIGbots 12/09/2003 01:52:34 GMT
      Does anyone know how many home school teams there are in FIRST EGO? This is our first year and we had so many kids that we had to split into two teams. Both of our teams went head to head at the FL Regional Tournament in Start, FL. Our team, TIGbots2999 (Trust In God)won second place and is going to state in Melbourne. Hope to see ya'll at Nationals!


    23. Message by: Club BOB 02/01/2004 08:06:03 GMT
      I don't know an exact number of homeschool teams, but can tell you there are quite a few homeschool teams across the country.

      For the CitySights Challenge of 30 state events, 15 Director's Award Winners were homeschool teams.

      At the nationals there were several homeschool teams there. A homeschool team from Penn received the Director's Award at that event and our homeschool team won 1st place Research Presentation Award at the national held in April of 2003.

      For the Mars Challenge there were more homeschool teams than ever. Part of that has to do with the fact that compared to some other robotics events, FLL is relatively inexpensive to get into. Not too many homeschool teams have the $5,000 needed to do a FIRST high school team or the $2,000 for BotBall. Now there are quite a few homeschool teams that do BEST. BEST has hubs and only so many teams per hub get in. But with FLL, pretty much anyone with the registration money can register and start a team.

      Most of the teams at the Dallas competition were homeschool teams (and the event was run by a homeschooler). For the Houston competition there was at least 4-5 homeschool teams.

      Susan
      Club BOB
      robotics
      http://www.jsoft.com/archive/robotics/


Discussion: if you have a qestion come here. By: nasajrs3540 11/19/2003 19:56:00 GMT
ok i have a qestion.
we are working on treads.
would you say its easy or hard.
(we are having a hard time.)
please post helpful hints.

  1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/01/2003 18:58:47 GMT
    ok i have a qestion. we are working on treads.
    would you say its easy or hard. (we are having a hard time.) please post helpful hints.


    This is exactly the kind of thing each team should figure out for themselves. It wouldn't be any fun nor as educational or rewarding if you were just told how to do everything.

    You said in another folder that you were too lazy to read the rules and the FAQ. Any further elaboration would require some work on your part to read, and would be pointless anyway.


    1. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 11/19/2003 19:56:00 GMT
      Okay, i have a real question.
      Our team has an important question about our research project... the habitation modules. Should we design every little detail and plan out the whole voyage? Or should it be were we just think of one little thing... say, how to supply a breath able atmosphere, and focus on that ignoring everything else? Obviously it should be neither of these extremes... but where should it be in between?



Folder: Ice Cores Research Help 11/25/2003 21:01:44 GMT
Post all of your Ice Cores questions here :)

Discussion: What is a good website where we can find info on the Ice Cores of Mars?? By: robopanther2989 11/25/2003 21:01:44 GMT
-the robopanthers of SC research team

  1. Message by: dh falcons 11/25/2003 21:01:44 GMT
    try google to searh and press ice cores



Folder: Illinois 12/10/2003 18:57:55 GMT


Discussion: Teams in Illinois By: Charleston1687 12/06/2003 18:34:15 GMT
Hello, We are a new team and are looking for mentors or advice. Are there any teams in our area? We are located about 1 hour south of Champaign Illinois.

  1. Message by: Rebels1051 09/24/2003 01:10:20 GMT
    Hi! i'm Becca,i'm a second year at this and my advise to you is to double check EVERYTHING!! last year at the tournument, we never checked our programmimng, and our robot fried on the table! Team: R.E.B.E.L.S. (Robotic Engineers Beginning to Evolve Life's Standards) What team are you on? (we're @ Holmes middle school in Wheeling,IL)


    1. Message by: Charleston1687 09/24/2003 04:29:23 GMT
      Thanks, Our kids haven't come up with a name yet. They are really new to this. We are located in Charleston, Il, and the kids are all in 4th and 5th grade. We wondered if anyone is south of Kankakee? The kids are just starting to figure out the programming and designing of the robot.

      Karla
      Charleston1687


    2. Message by: ORBIT1941 09/25/2003 05:45:08 GMT
      Hi,
      I am a coach in Ottawa, Ill. The Streator ,Ill teams and my teams are planning a regional tournament to be held in Streator on 12/6. If you are interested let me know.
      ORBIT


      1. Message by: Charleston1687 09/25/2003 15:24:47 GMT
        We are interested. Who do we contact?


    3. Message by: Rebels1051 09/25/2003 06:03:11 GMT
      Hi this is Becca again, 4th and 5th is really young for teams! our teams start in 6th, i'm in 7th this year. A good way to build your bot is to start with a desgin from the book and just improve on that. Are you using a RIS code for your program or the Robotic mindstorms thing(i don't know the name)


    4. Message by: Charleston1687 09/25/2003 15:27:33 GMT
      My son is in 5th, so that was how we ended up with those grades. They currently are modifying the robot in one of the handouts we found. We have both the Robolab and the RIS 2.0 (the Mindstorm thing). The are working with the RIS 2.0 and will have to build up to the Robolab version. Hopefully our school will get interested and start a team for next year. - My email is kquad@consolidated.net if anyone wants to email me.

      Karla


    5. Message by: AI2316 10/15/2003 18:17:41 GMT
      hi


    6. Message by: AI2316 10/15/2003 18:19:53 GMT
      what's up! how are you doing? you don't have any competition with us because you suck. just kidding


    7. Message by: AI2316 10/15/2003 18:20:37 GMT
      we live in virginia. what's your team called?


    8. Message by: AI2316 10/15/2003 18:20:50 GMT
      talk to me dude


      1. Message by: Point Blank 10/23/2003 16:53:33 GMT
        what? were team Point blank. how are you? whatz yer teamz name? We live in Illinois in the chicagoland area!


    9. Message by: Rebels1051 10/23/2003 23:10:05 GMT
      Team Rebels, in Wheeling IL, not to far from Chicagoland


    10. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/29/2003 22:37:46 GMT
      We are a team in Chicago ILL, and we use the mind storms


    11. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/03/2003 23:18:27 GMT
      on the first part after you exeted the base can you put the ramp back up?


    12. Message by: panthers816 11/06/2003 18:54:56 GMT
      Can we put lego magnets on the robot?


      1. Message by: Point Blank 11/08/2003 21:38:02 GMT
        Like I posted you can put anything on your robot as long as it is a lego piece. so yes u can use magnets.


    13. Message by: 11/08/2003 21:30:59 GMT
      Deleted


    14. Message by: panthers816 11/13/2003 23:38:51 GMT
      Does an arm motor count as one of the three motors?


      1. Message by: Legonauts4 11/14/2003 19:42:01 GMT
        Yes, you are only allowed 3 motors total. The rules do not care how you use the parts. The rule states you are only allowed three motors at the table. This goes for the other parts identified in the rules as well. The rule does not state how the parts may be used just what parts are allowed to be braught to the table.

        -Dave
        Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


    15. Message by: panthers816 11/19/2003 23:18:56 GMT
      After all of the rocks are picked up during a competion, can you still pick up your robot and bring it to base?


      1. Message by: harris-194 11/19/2003 23:30:11 GMT
        Yes, and since there are no more rocks, there are no more penalties.

        Courtney
        Harris-194


      2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/19/2003 23:31:12 GMT
        Yes you can. At that point you stop lossing bonus objects.
        This prevents a demoralizing negative score or a team that
        can't do anything because their robot is 'lost for good'.

        -Skye


    16. Message by: panthers816 11/27/2003 00:26:08 GMT
      Can my team use a laser pointer to aim the robot?


      1. Message by: harris-194 11/27/2003 03:56:27 GMT
        What a coincidence! Just today my kids were wishing there was a lego laser pointer so they could use that to aim!

        No, you can't use a laser pointer. Any jigs or aiming devices must be made of legos. Since the kids couldn't use a laser pointer they made a lego gun sight. Works pretty good too.

        Cheers,
        Courtney
        Harris-194


    17. Message by: panthers816 12/06/2003 01:54:48 GMT
      Does our robot have to be completly in base when we can pick it up without penalty? Please answer my question quickly!!!!


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/06/2003 18:33:56 GMT
        No, in order to be picked up without penalty, just some part of the robot (attached to the RCX) needs to be in the base.

        Be careful, however, as if the robot is bringing back either the rover or the ice cores, points for those objects are only awarded if the object itself is at least partially in the base volume.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Teams in Ottawa, IL By: Leggo Shindiggies 2872 11/22/2003 02:54:55 GMT
I am trying to find out how many teams there are in Ottawa, IL. Please email me at nucsro@mchsi.com or reply to this discussion.
Thanks

  1. Message by: ORBIT1941 10/02/2003 04:53:03 GMT
    I have two teams of 6th graders at Central Elementary School in Ottawa.


    1. Message by: Legoshindiggies2872 10/02/2003 07:09:59 GMT
      Now I know who you are. I guess we are the only ones this year.


    2. Message by: Legoshindiggies2872 11/22/2003 02:54:55 GMT
      Hi. It's Dylan and Matt. Bye.


Discussion: MAV Launcher By: buildersofbots419 12/10/2003 18:57:55 GMT
Hi! We are a 6th grade team in Barrington. We are wondering if other teams are finding the MAV Launcher difficult to release. Is it supposed to be velcroed to the table?

  1. Message by: harris-194 10/09/2003 22:25:57 GMT
    Yes the MAV launcher is attached to the mat with the Dual-lock.

    It should work pretty easily, check your building instructions carefully. I saw a MAV launcher where part of the pivot mechanism that locks the ring down was put on wrong (rotated 90 degrees), at first glance it looked okay, but pushing on the bar just caused this part to push against the table and it would fail to launch.

    I've attached a jpg of the joint in question, in the picture it is built correctly.

    Hope that helps,
    Courtney
    harris-194


    1. Message by: buildersofbots419 10/13/2003 16:54:47 GMT
      how does the alliance habitation module stay up if the other team doesn't have their side up?


      1. Message by: Brick Busters 10/31/2003 04:48:42 GMT
        Hello. I don't exactly know how it stays up, but it does even if the other team doesn't put their side up. Realize that both teams must put their sides up or neither team gets any points.

        Brick Busters (sixth grade team) Programmer
        Sussex (near Milwaukee) Wisconsin


    2. Message by: buildersofbots419 10/13/2003 16:57:22 GMT
      Are all of the mission modules attached to the mat with dual-lock?


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/13/2003 18:01:51 GMT
        Some, but not all, of the the mission models are attached to the mat with dual-lock. For specific details on how to attach the appropriate models, follow the link below:


        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    3. Message by: STRIPES924 12/10/2003 18:57:55 GMT
      Hi! We're a 6th grade team in Palatine. We used a motorized arm in a Mindstorms book. If you're going to state, you'll see. We're STRIPES standing for... Sanborn's Team of Robotically Inclined Phenomenally Energetic Students!!!!!!


Discussion: HELP!! By: The Dust Devils1053 11/14/2003 17:31:06 GMT
Hi I would like to know if there is any info on this websute that could help me out??? Thanks

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/14/2003 04:57:55 GMT
    You will have to be much more specific. Preferably ask your
    technical questions in the proper folder under rules.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/14/2003 17:31:06 GMT
      we dont know


Discussion: TEAMWORK By: The Dust Devils1053 12/10/2003 18:51:23 GMT
Hi! My name is Katie from wheeling! My group is really falling apart! We even have half the group on a different RCX! could any one give us advice on working as a whole group? We really Need it! Katie

  1. Message by: Point Blank 12/03/2003 00:49:27 GMT
    Ok Katie,
    I have heard your team argue and I know how hard it is so you should just sit down and discuss what's wrong. I do know that your team is full of a bunch of noisy, immature boys so try your best. I'll talk to ya later!
    *Lauren*


    1. Message by: STRIPES924 12/10/2003 18:51:23 GMT
      Try to separate into groups of programmers, researchers, and builders, and then come together for about an hour a day. That way everyone can do what their good at, and everyone can work together.



Folder: Indiana 03/02/2004 14:33:49 GMT



Folder: 6 Little Alien FACTS 10/28/2003 02:51:15 GMT
MARS FACTS:

*There are tornadoes on mars, therefor there is wind on mars

*A mars day is only slightly longer than a earth day

*Mars is a tiny bit smallar than earth
_________________________________________________________________
ROVER FACTS:

*A rover is sort of a robot that is sent to mars to colect rocks and take pictures and stuff

*


Folder: 6 LITTLE ALIENS 12/03/2003 21:39:35 GMT
6 Little Aliens Info.

The team 6 Little Aliens was created by Kavon,Catlin,Benjamin,Katie,Jacob,and Greg. With the help of the coaches Mr.Corona,Mr. and Mrs.Breedon, and Mr.Smith.With the help of are coaches we have sucsesfully made a great team and work hard. This has helped us a ton. Our team song is The Fight Song Of The 6 Little Aliens.We are a group from Prarie Vista. Prarie Vista is locatied in Granger .We named our robot Robo Bob. We still are working because we have a touniment 12/7/03 so cheer for us!

Discussion: you sound exited By: AstroKats2544 12/03/2003 21:39:35 GMT
we don't have a team song but we have a cool name

  1. Message by: Red Space Monkeez 12/03/2003 19:29:01 GMT
    We are The Red Space Monkeez, our team song is brass monkey.
    We are from Hammond.


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 12/03/2003 21:39:35 GMT
      We are the blaine bawt heads!!!Good luck!!!



Folder: don't you hate it when your frinds think that being in the teens dorent mean you can't play with lego's 01/08/2004 05:59:08 GMT


Discussion: In My 40's! By: Eggo My Legos 01/08/2004 05:59:08 GMT
Are you kidding?! I'm in my 40's and still playing with Lego's. And, get this, my team has 6 GIRLS in their TEENS playing with Legos. They gave the 3 boys on the team a run for thier money!


Folder: Mars Information 12/03/2003 15:32:20 GMT
I need information, ideas, and\or suggestions for a Mars Information bulletin board I'm putting up in our school. If you have any ideas let me know.
Thanks, cls1820

Discussion: bulliton By: AstroKats2544 12/03/2003 15:32:20 GMT
how about some typ of robot on it


Folder: Northern Indiana Teams 12/03/2003 21:44:53 GMT



Folder: South Bend-Granger area 11/26/2003 19:36:12 GMT


Discussion: What up By: roboticmeltdown2998 10/29/2003 00:20:05 GMT
We are the crab people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not really, were the Robotic Meltdown and we'll smite you all with our fist of doom(I)
-Sincerely
Matt Zakrowski

Discussion: What up By: roboticmeltdown2998 11/26/2003 19:36:12 GMT
We are the crab people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not really, were the Robotic Meltdown and we'll smite you all with our fist of doom(R)
-Sincerly
Matt Zakrowski

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/29/2003 22:15:19 GMT
    when u take out ure batery 4 ure robot does it have to be rebut or did we do some thing rong?


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/29/2003 22:23:05 GMT
      If you read the handbook at
      http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net you will find a trick
      that prevents you from having to re-program the robot
      when you change batteries.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: Red Space Monkeez 11/26/2003 19:36:12 GMT
      If you take the batteries out you have to reformat.



Folder: Valparaiso 10/28/2003 23:02:06 GMT
We are a rookie team near Valparaiso
Anyone located near us?

Discussion: Hi Cybearcats By: Morton Magic 540 10/28/2003 23:05:41 GMT
We are located in Hammond - not too far from you. We are a third year team and just wanted to wish you good luck in your rookie year. Morton Magic

  1. Message by: 6 Little Aliens268 10/28/2003 02:32:05 GMT
    We are The Six Little Aliens. We're from Prarie Vista Elementry in Granger near South Bend. I'm Caitlin. S. BJ. C, Greg. B, Kavon. B, Katie. Z and Jacob. H are next to me.
    Well good-bye.
    The 6 Little Aliens


    1. Message by: 10/28/2003 23:02:06 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: Practice Tournament? By: Bremen Botz! 11/15/2003 18:55:21 GMT
Is there any interest in having a 'Practice Tournament' somewhere in Northern Indiana. I am sure we could get access to a school in the area to hold it.

It would be helpful for our students to get some practice in the competition environment before doing the 'real thing'

Les Turner
195 - The Bremen Botz!

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 09/16/2003 19:15:11 GMT
    Yes, we are also interested in having a 'Practice Tournament' I will try to get LaSalle Academy in South Bend for this. Any preferences for dates?

    Dave Kolberg
    4 - Explorers
    2605 - Lyons


    1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 09/18/2003 18:12:49 GMT
      I would say a couple weeks before the ND/Science Central tournaments. That would give a chance to test everything close to the tournament while leaving time to regroup.

      Maybe the Saturday prior to Thanksgiving?

      Les Turner
      195 - The Bremen Botz!


    2. Message by: NDREF7700 09/25/2003 15:21:37 GMT
      This Dan Hummel. I have been asked again to participate as the Head Referee at the ND. Tournament and at the Indiana State level tournament. I would like to participate in the practice tournament, if possible. I would also like to come and visit your teams during the season to observe what is going on and if you/they have any questions. Please, let me know, when and where you meet, if you want me to attend your meeting. You can contact me at DLHUMMEL0@AOL.COM or (574) 264-0569.


      1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 10/09/2003 03:15:02 GMT
        I think that would be great... I am going to be meeting with David Kolberg (FLL Team from LaSalle Magnet School in SB) to try and work out the details. He has thrown out a date of Nov 21? at LaSalle School. I will keep you posted.

        I think it would be great if you could meet with our kids at one of our meetings. I am sure they would love to show their stuff and ask questions. We typically meet Tue or Thu from 6-8PM (varies from week-to-week) and Sat from 2-4PM... I will work on getting you our schedule...

        Les Turner
        The Bremen Botz! #195


    3. Message by: Legonauts4 10/10/2003 22:12:21 GMT
      So far the practice tournament will be on Saturday November 22nd late morning to early afternoon ad LaSalle Intermediate Academy (formerly LaSalle High School). I will publish more details after we have a chance to meet and set more up.

      Dave
      Coach #4 & #2605


    4. Message by: cls1820 10/30/2003 22:06:58 GMT
      Where is LaSalle Itermediate Academy? Our group might come if we knew where it was! Could you tell us where it is? Thank you, cls1820


    5. Message by: Legonauts4 10/31/2003 19:01:37 GMT
      The LaSalle Intermediate Academy is the new name for the old LaSalle High School in South Bend Indiana. It is located just off of Linconway between downtown and the airport. The address is 2701 West Elwood Ave, South Bend, In 46619. It is part of the South Bend Community School Corporation. We can handle up to 20 teams. This will be the first year for this and we will concentrate on the robot tasks and not the presentations this year. We are looking at doing 3 rounds and then having elimination rounds to find the winner. We will also open it up to any club teams that would like to participate (club teams are kids that work on FLL but are not on the official team).

      The web site with information should be up shortly www.bremenrobotics.org/lasalle. In the meantime you can contact me to sign up or for more details.

      David Kolberg
      David.Kolberg@Honeywell.com
      Coach #4 & #2605


    6. Message by: Bittersweet3269 11/06/2003 23:10:21 GMT
      Ther is a chance that we might be intrested in also competing. Or at least watching. I am not sure are robot would be ready by then.


      1. Message by: NDREF7700 11/15/2003 18:55:21 GMT
        Bittersweet3269 Coach:

        I have several video tapes from the previous FLL season that might be useful. This will let your team see the excitment but getting the feeling first hand by attending the practice tournament would be better. I can also come out to your team meeting and answer any questions. Pleae let me know if you want me to attend your team meeting?

        Dan Hummel
        Notre Dame Head Referee


    7. Message by: Legonauts4 11/07/2003 22:56:07 GMT
      It would be worth coming even if your robot can only do one mission. Our rookie year, we went to a local tournament and did very badly, I don't think we were even able to complete one task. However, this gave the team a shot in the arm and they worked the next week very hard and we went on to win the state championship and the directors award that year (our rookie year). It also gave our drivers a chance to see what it is like to compete against other teams. They were less nervous during the championship runs.

      Dave
      Coach #4 & #2605



Folder: THE 6 LITTLE ALIEN FILES 12/03/2003 21:47:52 GMT
Facts about 6 LITTLE ALIENS:

* 6 Little Aliens was created by B.J, Kavon, Jacob, Greg, Caitlin, Katie. Together we've been working on a great robot.
*We also got working on a team song, The 6 Little Aliens Fight song.

Discussion: good luck By: raidersrobotics267 12/03/2003 21:47:52 GMT
this is the shenandoah middle school team and we wish you good luck.

  1. Message by: Red Space Monkeez 12/03/2003 19:30:46 GMT
    Where are you from? We're from Hammond.Wish you luck.


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 12/03/2003 21:47:52 GMT
      we from chicago good luck.


Discussion: sdf By: 2192mustangs 12/03/2003 19:23:41 GMT
I wish you luck

  1. Message by: Red Space Monkeez 12/03/2003 19:23:41 GMT
    As we you.


Discussion: hello teams By: cardinals_from_mars 12/03/2003 19:21:57 GMT
Hello our team name is Cardinals_From_Mars. We're from Hammond, IN. we have alot done with our robots. We're working habitation modules. See you later.

  1. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 11/18/2003 22:00:07 GMT
    Hail the Tripods


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/18/2003 22:42:57 GMT
      Hello.Nice job!!!WE thought we missed some on ours,and we gave up.It looks really cool!Do you think you get any points for it?

      BYE!!^-^


    2. Message by: Robosharks406 11/18/2003 23:15:01 GMT
      Roboshark send their greetings!


    3. Message by: Red Space Monkeez 11/26/2003 19:42:46 GMT
      Hello we're the red space Monkeez, we are from hammond too. We're Scott's team. Wish you guys lots of luck.


    4. Message by: 12/02/2003 22:13:07 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: Morton Magic 540 12/02/2003 22:16:14 GMT
      Hey guys. Morton Magic also from Hammond here. Wishing everyone who is attending the Purdue Calumet tournament on Sunday good luck.


      1. Message by: Red Space Monkeez 12/03/2003 19:21:57 GMT
        Hi! Wats up? See you at Purdue, Good Luck.


Discussion: mars By: 2192mustangs 11/04/2003 19:46:31 GMT


Discussion: where is the ball? By: Red Space Monkeez 12/03/2003 19:17:29 GMT
What does the ball go on, A Canister? It was shown on a black circle. What is it on? And where? The base?

THANKS,
Red Space Monkeez

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 21:51:42 GMT
    Sorry we no not know but if we find out we will tell you.


    1. Message by: Red Space Monkeez 11/26/2003 19:38:59 GMT
      We found out at our city compition, it is on a black circle called a canister. The canister is located in the base. You have to start your program with the ball on the canister.


    2. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/26/2003 22:36:31 GMT
      Thanks we needed to know that


    3. Message by: Legonauts4 12/01/2003 15:58:37 GMT
      The canister is to hold the ball in the base. You can remove the canister and hold the ball any time you like while it is in the base. You can place the ball on your robot. The robot does not have to pick anything up in the base. Humans are available in the base to place any items that the robot needs onto the robot.

      -Dave
      Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


      1. Message by: Red Space Monkeez 12/03/2003 19:17:29 GMT
        Thanks, we didn't know that.


Discussion: Allowable Parts By: CentralSpaceLab465 11/25/2003 22:38:45 GMT
A team at the Pursue State Qualifying Tournament had three vehicles, each with 2 motors, and they moved the RCX from one frame to another after each mission. They had 6 motors on the table at one time.

I believe this is a violation of the 3 motors rule, is it not?

The Pursue judges allowed them to compete.

Does anyone know if this is acceptable?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/24/2003 02:09:13 GMT
    In my book this is certain violation.

    If the referee accepted this, they were not well trained.
    Of course, it is a little late for corrective action. But
    a talk with the head ref now to explain the issue for next
    year would be in order.

    As a funny case in point, the competition I went to this
    weekend, they only gave us 2 minutes the first round. They
    messed up the first few matches, so rather than re-running
    they just keept it at 2 minutes. Talk about an unplanned
    scramble as we re-ordered our mission 10 minutes before our
    turn at the table! The last two rounds were at 2.5 minutes.
    Scores were better!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/25/2003 22:38:45 GMT
      i belive so


Discussion: If you made it toState send a reply By: AstroKats2544 03/02/2004 14:33:49 GMT
I can't wait until state but I am nerves

  1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 12/11/2003 06:17:41 GMT
    We are in and looking forward to going...

    Don't be nervous, getting to state is an accomplishment to be proud of. Where is your team from? We are from Bremen (about 20 miles south of South Bend).

    Les Turner
    Bremen Botz! - 195


    1. Message by: AstroKats2544 12/11/2003 17:15:03 GMT
      cool i wish you good luck


    2. Message by: AstroKats2544 03/02/2004 14:33:49 GMT
      no fair



Folder: Iowa 12/16/2004 19:44:35 GMT



Folder: what problems are you having 12/05/2003 00:40:37 GMT


Discussion: who's out there By: ISSSrocketeers1762 12/16/2004 19:44:35 GMT
Hi everyone! My name is Natasha and I am a coach for a team here in Iowa. It's my first time being involved with FLL. So I'm just wondering who is out there and where everyone is from and what your experience is. Have fun!

  1. Message by: Huskies 10/10/2003 19:56:07 GMT
    We have about 15 teams in the Cedar Rapids area... Having a great time coaching/helping the kids this year...


    1. Message by: PellaFirst1926 10/11/2003 04:32:38 GMT
      From the Pella area we will be fielding two teams. One is a returning team from last year the other is a young rookie team. These are rural teams made up of kids from around Marion County. Coach Bailey.


      1. Message by: Huskies 11/19/2003 21:05:38 GMT
        Coach Bailey

        I was wondering how the two teams are doing? You did great last year at Ames... Look forward to see your teams robots in action...

        Gregg (Coach Cedar Valley Christian School) Huskies..
        gregg@thelinds.net


    2. Message by: 10/15/2003 02:55:26 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: Dragons901 10/15/2003 02:56:57 GMT
      One team from Johnston will be entering the competition this December. The coach is Mary Zirkelbach.


    4. Message by: LegoPussycats3264 10/21/2003 21:22:44 GMT
      Hi, Robert Alden here from Colo-NESCO Middle School. We will be sending two teams to the state competition in Ames. First time teams here, learning as we go.


    5. Message by: Raiders 1402 10/23/2003 23:32:32 GMT
      I'm Leslie, and I'm also a first time coach for a first time team from Omaha, Nebraska. Iowa is our closest competition.


      1. Message by: AZK3535 12/09/2004 23:18:45 GMT
        Hi Leslie, I am in Yutan Nebraska. Are you going to the Cedar Rapids Tournament? If so, we'll see you there!


    6. Message by: 10/29/2003 02:03:28 GMT
      Deleted


    7. Message by: 10/29/2003 02:05:33 GMT
      Deleted


    8. Message by: Dragons901 11/05/2003 18:00:21 GMT
      Are you going to the state tournoment at ISU or the one in Cedar Rapids?


    9. Message by: biobots876405 12/16/2004 19:44:35 GMT
      the biobots 876



Folder: Kentucky 10/29/2003 23:07:16 GMT


Discussion: Hi, Everyone By: Robocats1628 10/29/2003 23:07:16 GMT
We are the Robocats from Whitefield Academy in Louisville. Who else is out there from Kentucky?
Any one know of any plans for a local or state tournament in Kentucky this year?

  1. Message by: Ockerman Titans2021 09/08/2003 21:49:11 GMT
    Hey I'm from Florence


    1. Message by: Ockerman Titans2021 09/09/2003 00:26:00 GMT
      im on the same team as the person above^^


    2. Message by: Ockerman Titans2021 09/09/2003 02:57:25 GMT
      So am i


    3. Message by: KC1191 09/09/2003 16:10:00 GMT
      We're from Crestwood, about 15 miles NE of Louisville in Oldham County.

      This is our first year, and we're still trying to figure out what we need to be doing.

      I doubt there are to be any events in KY this year. I spoke to a lady at FLL a few days ago and she didn't know of any in the works.

      Kentucky Colonels, Team 1191


      1. Message by: Robocats1628 09/30/2003 15:39:19 GMT
        Welcome Colonels! You are in for the most awesome experience! This is our second year and we're still trying to figure out what we need to be doing too. We have exploded from one team to three, with five assistant coaches, a couple of faculty mentors, and three (hopefully) high school studends as "coaches in training". Now our biggest challenge is funding everything times three. I found the two biggest helps last year were the coaches manual, and reading everything everyone said on the forum. The forum answered a lot of questions I didn't even know to ask.
        Good luck!


    4. Message by: Ockerman Titans2021 09/10/2003 02:48:07 GMT
      What grade are you in? We are in 8th grade at Ockerman middle School.


    5. Message by: RoboGeeks2024 09/15/2003 22:49:15 GMT
      darkness filled this chatroom as the RoboGeeks enter the room. Fwahhahaha


    6. Message by: Ockerman Titans2021 09/16/2003 02:31:36 GMT
      How many teams are in Kentucky this year??????


    7. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/29/2003 23:07:16 GMT
      whats up dudes greeting from the blaine bat heads.
      write to us some time tell us who you are and what is your robot is like. good luck bye for now!!!!!!


Discussion: New Missions Details By: Ockerman Titans2021 09/09/2003 02:59:17 GMT
Post any Mission details here, please.

  1. Message by: Ockerman Titans2021 09/09/2003 02:59:17 GMT
    I don't know any yet.


Discussion: Greetings By: Ockerman Titans2021 10/21/2003 01:45:41 GMT
Does anyone know any details about the MARS MISSIONS yet? If so please send them to me.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/10/2003 14:13:14 GMT
    All mission details will be made public on Sept 15.


    1. Message by: metal martians 2537 10/21/2003 01:45:41 GMT
      Also the details will be on a website that has something to do with lego leag.


Discussion: Kentucky Tournament By: RoboGeeks2024 10/03/2003 04:12:06 GMT
Kentucky teams: There is currently a preliminary plan to have a small state tournament for Kentucky this year. It will take place somewhere in Northern Kentucky, probably at NKU. I'll keeep you posted. --Randy Wilson, OMS Robotics Team Coach.

  1. Message by: Rusty Engineers 09/22/2003 14:58:59 GMT
    Randy:
    Our team is anxiously awaiting additional news on the Kentucky event. The info on the web site states exact date and time to be announced, yet there is a date of December 6 listed. Do you know if that date is firm?
    Thanks,
    Paul Tagher,
    Coach -- Rusty Engineers
    ps. Our team is also from Northern Kentucky -- 3 from St. Agnes, 1 from Villa, and another from St. Paul -- so hello, neighbor. I've heard a lot of good things about your program.


    1. Message by: RoboGeeks2024 09/29/2003 17:08:47 GMT
      It looks like the KY state tournament will be on Saturday, Dec. 20th at Summit View Middle School in Kenton County. I will be e-mailing all KY teams with more info soon!


    2. Message by: HighVoltage_1489 10/03/2003 04:12:06 GMT
      Could we get added to the information list? Our email is in our profile. Thanks! Sounds exciting that Kentucky will be having a tournament.



Folder: LEGO MINDSTORMS DOOMED?! 01/20/2004 04:54:10 GMT
I heard today LEGO will no longer be making mindstorms...
What does this mean for FLL?

Jim of Team Tiger, Pelham NH

Discussion: Do not panic yet! By: Tekno Devils40 01/20/2004 04:54:10 GMT
The press release I read from LEGO did not say that they would
discontinue Mindstorms. They did say that they would
discontinue making NEW electronic and computer products. LEGO
is 'probably' not stupid enough to stop making a product they
already have developed. They will probably simply not develop
new electronic products.

Even in the event that they stop selling Mindstorm kits to the
public, they can still sell them via Pitsco. From what I have
seen, LEGO is very involved in FLL and will insure it keeps
going one way or another.

-Skye

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/13/2004 13:54:54 GMT
    As I said, do not panic. This just in from lugnet:

    Subject: The sky is *not* falling
    Author: Jake McKee
    Newsgroups: lugnet.lego
    Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:10:12 GMT
    From: Jake McKee

    In the last few days, I*ve seen much discussion, and recevied many questions about the future of the company. As you probably saw/heard, 2003 was a rough year for the LEGO Company, for a number of reasons. Kjeld has retaken the helm, and has said that we are returning to *our core*.

    Rest assured, *our core* simply means our toy business. Which is to say, our toy product lines present and future.

    Licenses

    Harry Potter and Star Wars are NOT going away any time soon. Licenses are not going to stop, simply continue to improve. We have to take (and have taken) steps to ensure we manage the peaks and valleys that licensing brings with it (Movie years vs. non-movie years, for example). We are still going to be going after the top licenses with the right brand fit.

    In fact, we have announced what I think is going to be a great license today:

    Dora the Explorer

    Mindstorms

    Mindstorms is not going away, but may continue to evolve. Like all technology products, Mindstorms will continue to grow and improve as consumers gain new technology knowledge and technology itself continues to get better and smaller.

    WWYM Line

    Another fear I*ve heard is that the *What Will You Make?* line is going away. This is not true, and the 2003 product line showed great success and potential. Stay tuned for more great WWYM products in 2004!

    More information will be forthcoming, as the changes progress.

    Thanks!
    Jake

    ---
    Jake McKee
    Community Development Manager
    LEGO Community Development


    1. Message by: TeamTiger298 01/13/2004 16:12:50 GMT
      Whew, that's a relief!


    2. Message by: fenderbenders1022 01/13/2004 18:00:14 GMT
      There was a post on LUGNET late on Monday from someone from LEGO. It appears that Mindstorms is safe.

      http://news.lugnet.com/lego/?n=625

      All is not lost. Don't Panic.

      -Jon Gilchrist


    3. Message by: Wildcats1099 01/20/2004 04:54:10 GMT
      I listened to an interview on National Public Radio the other day with two business analysts who specialized in LEGO. (Sorry, I don't remember which day or the name of the show) Anyway, they said that the school market for Mindstorms is growing so rapidly at this point, especially in places like China and Singapore, that it would be hard to imagine LEGO giving up that product line. Their only concern was that the profit margin on school sales is fairly low, but they felt that the exposure Lego gets to their high profit market (parents) by being in the schools outweighs the low margins. I hope they're right!
      Monica



Folder: Maine 01/20/2004 17:08:45 GMT
Discussion for Maine Teams


Folder: New Tournament Listing 01/20/2004 17:08:45 GMT
In Worcester, Massachusetts we are holding an end of the year tournament at Quinsigamond Community College and wanted to invite all of you Maine teams down to Mass on February 28th! It will be a large tournament with a lot of awards. If you are interested, contact Betty at blauer@qcc.mass.edu!

Discussion: Welcome to Maine By: UMaineState 11/06/2003 02:15:52 GMT
Hi to all Maine teams. My name is Tom Bickford and I host and run the Maine State Tournament. I wanted to wish you all the best of luck this season and look forward to seeing you here on December 7th!

Tom.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/26/2003 19:02:40 GMT
    Tom,

    My team competed at Maine for Arctic Impact. You had a
    great tournament. Beat of luck to you. I know how hard
    it is to run a tournament.

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: The Marvins1966 10/16/2003 17:59:08 GMT
      Hey We are kinda new to this!!! o well Go us!! good luck to everyone else!!!!! GOOD LUCK!!!!!!


    2. Message by: Sparks 10/29/2003 23:23:22 GMT
      Heya, this is our first time doing robotics. We are glad to be doing this .. hehehe ...


    3. Message by: Sparks 10/29/2003 23:26:21 GMT
      Were new at this and we are ready to rumble ( As soon as we build our robot and do our research paper) Great luck to everyone else.
      Also, we are wondering if anyone is doing the MAV Launcher for the research project.


      1. Message by: 10/29/2003 23:28:46 GMT
        Deleted


        1. Message by: Sparks 10/29/2003 23:31:16 GMT
          My name is Angela .. and umm, Zeke iz here .. "HI!!!" Says Zeke.


          1. Message by: 10/29/2003 23:32:36 GMT
            Deleted


    4. Message by: Sparks 10/29/2003 23:28:14 GMT
      Heya, this is our first time doing robotics. We are glad to be doing this .. hehehe ...


    5. Message by: 11/04/2003 22:14:17 GMT
      Deleted


    6. Message by: Sparks 11/04/2003 22:14:53 GMT
      How do you use the program!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


      1. Message by: 11/06/2003 02:15:52 GMT
        Deleted


    7. Message by: 11/04/2003 22:16:36 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: Research Projects By: TechnicalTigers 11/10/2003 22:11:52 GMT
The kids working on our research project are curious if it would be okay to do a Powerpoint Presentation. I can't find anywhere that says we can't, but just wanted to check :)

The Technical Tigers, Jackman

  1. Message by: Orono Team 1 11/06/2003 22:23:22 GMT
    Technical Tigers: You may bring whatever you want to do your presentation, except something that would endanger either team members or the audience, so no chain saws, lasers, or flammable products.

    You can sing and dance or do a PowerPoint presentation, however, you must bring everything with you and you will only have about 5 minutes to set everything up.

    Good Luck, the Maine LEGO Guy (Tom Bickford)


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 22:11:52 GMT
      Hi



Folder: Marketing, Fundraising and PR 01/19/2004 22:39:40 GMT
Use this folder to discuss, comment or ask questions about Marketing, Fundraising and PR.


Folder: FLL Awareness and general PR 10/01/2003 15:19:53 GMT
For ideas related to making sponsors aware of FLL and general PR related ideas.

Discussion: sponsors unfamiilar with FLL By: Club BOB 10/01/2003 15:19:53 GMT
Ideas for how to make potential sponsors aware of FLL

  1. Message by: Club BOB 10/01/2003 04:23:41 GMT
    In the school question folder, the following question was raised that I wanted to comment on:

    <
    Hi Skye: I don't envy you and your problem. However, I'm intrigued to hear that your employer is financing each team. Is this simply a donation for the schools or is your employer's business related to robotics, science, etc.? We're trying to find a sponsor for our team in the Richmond, VA area but have had no luck this year. Not much is known about this competition so it's a hard sell. The other thing about cutting back on team members is that there are fewer parents involved including those who might know of a potential sponsor. Anyway, good luck.

    Mark
    Irken Invaders >>

    Hi Mark, when we first started doing FLL it was a hard sell for us to find sponsors because so many people had not yet heard of FLL.

    Here's a few suggestions for you

    1. put together a short description that explains what FLL is and include some of the history, how many children are involved worldwide, how many events take place. Be sure to mention that Dean Kamen is involved. Even if they have not heard about FLL, many have heard of the Segway. Stress the educational goals of FLL including reference to research and real world problem solving and teamwork and the math and engineering the kids learn. Include the fact that it's associated with FIRST high school robotics, which has been around for 10 years now.

    2. look for news articles related to FLL, it's been around long enough that a google search should bring up at least a few.

    3. put together a short intro about your team, what school they are from, ect.

    4. include the fact that your group is looking for potential sponsors.

    5. if you have a state event you will be attending be sure to mention that you will be in competition and give the date and location.

    6. include contact information so people can get back to you if they are interested in helping your team.

    7. include website links so that potential sponsors can read more.

    Print it on nice paper to hand out to potential sponsors.

    Also submit your press release to the local newspaper. If you can get them to print it and do a story on your team, then you increase the odds that a company will be willing to help support your team. Include an action picture of your team with the robots/playing field.

    Good luck, when we first started many people didn't even know what LEGO Mindstorms was, but at least most are famiilar with that now.

    thanks,

    Susan
    Club BOB


    1. Message by: Irken Invaders 10/01/2003 06:03:18 GMT
      Thanks, Susan. Great ideas.

      Coach Mark
      Irken Invaders


      1. Message by: BNI927 10/01/2003 15:19:53 GMT
        Mark -

        If you are doing any presentations in front of potential sponsors, you are welcome to include the tournament highlight video I put together from our Illinois State tournament last year. You can down load it from
        http://www.hightechkids.org/ilfll/volunteers/



Folder: Fund Raising Ideas 10/21/2003 07:50:54 GMT
The hat day is still a quick easy and no money involved way to raise money. Maybe at least once a month the robotics team could do this. Print up the "hat coupons" to be put on the hats so you know who is participating. That's it..... just sell the coupon to wear on a hat on hat day "so and so" for a buck each and you have free easy money. $300.00

Paper Airplane Contest
Have a paper airplane contest from an upper floor of your building. (Gym) This would relate to engineering way of life also. $1 a plane, one afternoon or during lunch. Or during a science class.

Lunch Box Auction -** Have students create gourmet lunches to be auctioned off to the highest bidder.* Give prizes for the most creative, nutritious, elegant or humorous. The team could make a profit off of the meal and tips.

Halloween Pumpkin Carving Contest
Plan a Halloween theme and hold a pumpkin-carving contest. Find a local business willing to donate pumpkins for your organization to sell to your students. Employees or students buy pumpkins for their families to use in
the contest. Charge $5 to enter and $1 per vote. Award prizes for various categories: best traditional, most creative, best effort by group, best effort by an individual. Throw a party to end your campaign and charge an entry fee. Maybe a dance or kiddie carnival.

Spelling Bee - *Organize a spelling bee with participants paying an entry fee.* Have other students pay to place bets on the winner.* Award the winners with a special incentive.

Coin War -* (Auburn / Alabama cans) Set up large, empty cans for each class, department, hall, or floor * Have students drop their spare change into the cans.* Coins are positive, while paper money is negative.* Students can sabotage other cans by dropping paper money into them.* The class with the most money in their can wins, with the money going to the Robotics team. May what to watch the cans in a secure place or with a locked lid. We would want more going in than out.

Executive Chair Race -* Set up a relay course for teachers and admin. to go through, either sitting in a chair or on tricycles.* Let observers bet on their favorite contestant.

Discussion: more fundraising ideas By: Club BOB 10/21/2003 07:50:54 GMT
more ideas for general fundraising.

  1. Message by: Club BOB 10/01/2003 04:31:23 GMT
    Chickfila calendar sales have worked well for us. The calendars sell themselves because they only cost $5 and have over $20 of free food coupons. Chickfila gives youth groups a portion of the sales for each calendar your group sells.

    Last season for one team we raised over $500 just from calendars sales.

    This season was have 5 different teams that have sold over 900 calendars so for the most part they have all managed to at least recoup their registration fees.


    1. Message by: Robohawk 2256 10/01/2003 05:22:26 GMT
      Another option is Sweet Tomatoes or Soup Plantations restuarants (other restuarants do this as well) if you have them in your area. You can set up a FLL night for your team and pass out fliers. Anyone who presents a flier as they pay will have 20% of their total bill donated to your organization.

      We raised quite a bit from this last year, despite the fact that there was a power outage to the entire shopping center and people were kept from coming in to the restuarant after 8:15 pm. Those of us inside had a nice dinner under the romantic glow of the emergency lighting.


    2. Message by: Bedford Broncobots 10/11/2003 17:46:42 GMT
      Are there allowed overhanging pieces out of base when you pick up the robot


      1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 10/11/2003 18:23:09 GMT
        Are there allowed overhanging pieces out of base when you pick up the robot

        This is clearly spelled out in the rules. Please read them.


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/12/2003 14:36:59 GMT
        In case you are having trouble finding the rules, see
        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11250

        Rule 9 is the rule you need to look at carefully. In the starting position diagram, only case "A" is allowable. The other cases are disallowed starting positions.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    3. Message by: Club BOB 10/21/2003 07:50:54 GMT
      It would also be helpful for you to look in the right folder of the forums for a topic related to rules since your question doesn't have a thing to do with fundraising. ;-)

      Your question is probably already answered in another section of this forum.


Discussion: team tshirts By: Club BOB 10/21/2003 07:47:27 GMT
using team tshirts to help with fundraising for your team

  1. Message by: Club BOB 10/01/2003 04:41:23 GMT
    Each year we have designed our own tshirts and then sold sponsor ads on the back of the tshirts.

    if a sponsor pays $100 they get their company logo and name
    if they pay $50 they get their company name.

    You can fit quite a few sponsors on the back of each shirt.

    It's a good selling point if you can tell the sponsor that their name will be seen at a competition and mentioned in press releases about your team.

    Most of our sponsors were companies that the parents had connnections with and were happy to support something educational.

    We also put the Chickfila logo on the back of our shirts since their calendar sales helped our team.

    If we had enough funds, we would give the sponsor one of the team tshirts as a thank you. But regardless of if they got a shirt, we always had the team give the sponsors thank you cards.

    Also, we usually did tshirts for the parents and siblings since it's often cheaper to do larger quantities of tshirts with the silk screeners. A good point about having the extra shirts is that it meant on the day of competition others would see family members in the stand wearing our shirts to help them remember our team.

    thanks,

    Susan
    Club BOB


    1. Message by: EagleEngineers2125 10/08/2003 23:45:27 GMT
      I am having an easy time getting parents and sponsors to support our afterschool club; however, I do not have anywhere to put ALL the money! I cannot open a school account myself and the parent who volunteered to open the account is getting no where. The bank will not let her open an account without a Tax ID number and our school is not allowed to let her use ours. How do you get around all this red tape? I am running out of time :-(


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/09/2003 00:22:36 GMT
        CASH!

        -Skye


    2. Message by: Wildcats1099 10/11/2003 19:35:03 GMT
      Perhaps your PTA would let you use their bank account and tax ID. You may have to let them claim to "sponsor" the program, but depending on local politics, that may be a good thing! Gives some accountability and oversite, but does add a layer of bureaucracy. If you don't need the tax id in order to acknowledge donations, I would just keep really good records of income and expenses and run it through my own checking account.
      Monica


    3. Message by: Club BOB 10/21/2003 07:47:27 GMT
      ditto to what Syke said, we always used cash and just kept a notebook to keep track of expenses.



Folder: Fundraising for trip to FLL Invitational 02/27/2004 06:46:43 GMT

Use this folder to discuss issues related to teams raising funds for the purpose of attending the FLL Invitational. (For state tournament winners.)

Discussion: How have past (or current) attendees of the FLL Invitational tournament raised funds? By: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 02/27/2004 07:02:22 GMT
Hello!

My team, Mindstorms Mayhem, now finds ourselves in the happy position of being invited to the FLL Invitational in Atlanta in April, as the NH State Director's Award winner. However, we are now faced with the challenge of raising the funds needed to have our team be able to participate!

This is new ground for our team, and I am looking to leverage off of the lessons learned of anybody who has been in this position before! Have other teams that have gone simply paid their own way? Have teams used a mix of self-support and sponsor support? Has there been financial support from the state tournament partner?

Our team has the goal of raising funds to fully support the team for the trip. This is no small task if we are to take the "least hassle" route of flying from NH to Atlanta, and staying at the accommodations next door to the Georgia Dome. Doing so, however, would require about $850 each for a team of 10 students, 1 student mentor, 2 coaches, and one female chaperone. (14 * $850 = $11,900).

We are exploring other lower-cost options including driving to/from Atlanta, staying with host families, etc. These can help lessen the cost, but some level of fundraising would still be required.

With fundraising, we have lots of ideas of how to pursue corporate sponsorships, community donations, individual donations, etc., but we are running into a couple roadblocks:

* It seems that many corporations will only make donations to approved non-profit organizations. (In order to receive the tax benefit, and also to weed out "fake organizations.) Our team is not a registered non-profit organization. As a homeschooling team, we are not directly under the umbrella of a school district, so we don't have their organization to leverage. Any other suggestions? How have other homeschool teams done this?

* What did your team do to secure corporate sponsorships? What
did you tell them in your "pitch?" How do you recognize their
support? (Again, we have ideas, but given that time is short, and we only get one shot at this, we'd like to leverage your experience!)

We are basically looking for your experiences and suggestions in this matter. We have lots of ideas, but have run into a roadblock with the tax issues, and would also like to hear what has been proven to work!

Thanks!

--ken
Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

  1. Message by: dragondevils119 02/26/2004 22:02:14 GMT
    When the Dragon Devils were invited to Florida for Arctic Impact, we were able to get a grant of $750 per team member from a local credit union. We made a careful accounting for each girl - paid for their airplane tickets, a pro-rated amount for lodging, and a daily food allowance. We also did a bit of other fundraising - selling cookie dough and a walk-a-thon.

    Last year for Houston City Sights we self-funded, and will do so again this year in Atlanta. The families treat it as a group vacation.

    Most of us are planning to drive from SE Mich to Atlanta; a few will fly. Last year we all flew to Houston and shared rental cars and minivans. But driving this year, we will be able to bring a lot more stuff with us.

    We did not use the hotel package. I think overall that saved money, but we were about 6 miles offsite. This year we made reservations early for the Embassy Suites just across from the GA Dome and convention center.

    Looking forward to meeting you in Atlanta. Your team sounds like a formidable competitor!

    Gary
    Dragon Devil parent


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 02/27/2004 06:46:43 GMT
      Gary,

      Thanks for letting us know how the Dragon Devils have funded their previous trips to the Invitationals. This is the Dragon Devils' third trip to the Invitational?!? Wow! That's very impressive!

      Our fundraising is still ongoing. We are optimistic of reaching our goal so that we can fly and stay in the Omni Hotel. Even if we don't make our fundraising goal, the kids have received some good press coverage, and have made a lot of connections in the community!

      We are attending a practice tournament this weekend; we'll see how it goes! We have spent almost all of our meeting time in January and February on fundraising activities -- the traditional "FLL" activities have been on hold. The research project and robot are essentially no different now than they were the second week of December! The fundraising has been fun, even if a lot of work, and the students have definitely learned some new skills and had some great experiences.

      I'm hoping to put together some sort of addendum to Skye Sweeney's coaches manual on fundraising for the Invitational -- this effort caught our team by surprise, and we had little to no experience with fundraising prior to a couple of months ago. Even with some excellent advice from other FLL teams such as Team BOB and BTBAF, we've still had to learn some lessons the hard way! Oh well, experience is largely the sum of "hard knocks."

      I'll post results from this Saturday's tournament if the Forum is still open...

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem



Folder: Marketing And The Robot 10/10/2003 03:30:58 GMT
Hi, we are the Dust Devils at Holmes Middle School in Illinois. We are a group of new comers (none of us have done this before). Could anyone give us tips on making the robot, marketing and researching? Thanks!


Folder: School related questions 10/08/2003 08:05:03 GMT


Discussion: Moving a team to a junior high By: Tekno Devils40 10/08/2003 08:05:03 GMT
HELP!

I have a team that I started at an elementary school. I started
it with 4, 5, and 6 graders. After the first year, two of
the kids left the school to move up to junior high. There was
no team at the new school, so I took them back. Now after our
second year, half the kids are in junior high and half the
kids back at the elementary. My son is now in junior high.

I was planning on coaching the team from the JH. I talked to the
principal today, and he has legalistic issues. Title 9 'stuff'
requires that school related programs be available to all
students. Hosting a fully formed team would violate the code.

My team is already as large as I want it. I do not have an easy
way to start a new team at the JH to 'open it up'. I do not have
a coach nor do I have the money for a new kit.

My options are 1) stay at the elementary school. 2) Try to find
the money to start a second team at the JH. 3) Abbandon the
schools and run the team from my home.

This is very frustrating to me. It is hard enough dealing with
the kids let alone all the political stuff!

I would like to hear other people's experiences in this matter.
I would also be interested in how other teams (like DI) deal
with this problem.

-Skye Sweeney
fll-freak@comcast.net

  1. Message by: Cybernautical Roboteers98 09/14/2003 14:37:55 GMT
    My team also consists of kids that attend different schools in the county. I decided to make it a 4-H competition team.

    Cybernautical Roboteers98


    1. Message by: Irken Invaders 09/15/2003 02:07:18 GMT
      Who initially paid for your Lego equipment and who has paid for this year's mission set up? We are in our second year and had too big of a team last year with 10. I reduced the size and a couple of parents were disappointed that their sons couldn't be on my team. I offered to work with them on setting up a new team but neither would agree to put in the time needed. We are not technically a school team but we do have a teacher from 5th greade who was our guiding light last year, back for another even though the team is mostly 6th graders now.

      As far as Title 9, there are limits to how many kids can be on a team. If 100 sign up, I think the rules state only 10 kids can be on a team. And if no one else will coach it, I would think the coach gets to make the final choicce.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/15/2003 02:20:00 GMT
        ARGH!
        My employer pays for about 50 teams in the area. Initialy
        they were to be one per school. My team was going to move
        up take our kit to the JH. I was then going to start a
        team at the ES to replace me. Well, before I figured out
        that I had no easy home at the JH, I had started the team
        at the ES. Now I have to place to go!

        I will talk with the school district Monday to figure out
        what to do. If push come sto shove, I will run the team
        out of my home.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Irken Invaders 09/15/2003 12:40:54 GMT
          Hi Skye: I don't envy you and your problem. However, I'm intrigued to hear that your employer is financing each team. Is this simply a donation for the schools or is your employer's business related to robotics, science, etc.? We're trying to find a sponsor for our team in the Richmond, VA area but have had no luck this year. Not much is known about this competition so it's a hard sell. The other thing about cutting back on team members is that there are fewer parents involved including those who might know of a potential sponsor. Anyway, good luck.

          Mark
          Irken Invaders


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/15/2003 13:00:54 GMT
            My employer is a large defence contractor (BAE Systems).
            They are quite obviously into technology. A few key
            people in the company are very big into FIRST and FLL. As
            such FIRST/FLL is the companies largest outreach program.
            Last year they ran not only the FLL state tourney for
            40+ teams, but also a regional FIRST competition. They
            were able to convince several hundred employees to
            volunteer and make both events something to remember.

            My suggestion to you is to build a robot and program it
            to do something fun and make the rounds to various tech
            companies. A working robot sells itself.

            -Skye Sweeney


          2. Message by: 09/20/2003 04:17:36 GMT
            Deleted


    2. Message by: HMS Raiders 427 09/15/2003 19:52:46 GMT
      Hello Skye

      I found myself in a similar position and planned to operate a team out of my home. The Middle School principal found the funds to begin a team so... we decided to split the team into a competition team (those with experience) and a developmental team - unlimited numbers could join but will not go to competition this year. A staff member offered to run this team. I think it will work!

      Sharon


      1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 09/16/2003 05:13:27 GMT
        We have used this model for a couple years now. We have a 'robotics club' that meets and selects the competition team for the tournament.

        This seems to allow more students to participate since coaches are scarce here 'in the back country'.

        Les Turner
        195 - The Bremen Botz!


    3. Message by: phantoms2127 09/16/2003 16:06:30 GMT
      My sons elementary school had the first team in our city. I decided to approach the middle school and get one started there.

      Last year was our first year, we had 8 students sign up (5 that were on the elementary team the prior year. This year we had 37 at the first meeting. I was anticipating forming two teams, which means we still have too many.

      Children who were on a team last year will have an edge in any objective selection criteria. However, I believe what you've been told is true, you would have to open it up to the entire school.

      If you want to guarantee your original team will remain intact, you'll have to form it outside the school.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/16/2003 23:44:41 GMT
        I have learned enough in the last few days to add another chapter to my coaches manual.
        I STRONGLY beleive in fairness, but find some of the regulations are a little nuts.

        I have solved my problem by getting another registration from my employeer (thank
        you BAE Systems). Now I can have my old team and start a new one to boot. In fact I
        am now a 'sheppard' for at least 4 teams and a coach of one.

        -Skye Sweeney


        1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 09/16/2003 23:56:15 GMT
          Skye, I hope there's coaching help for you. My two team, 12:1 team:coach ratio in the same practice session last year was a little hairy at times. If you're willing to go 2 nights per team per week for 4 nights total, extra coaching or parental presence is also great to keep some sanity.

          On the other hand, sometimes FLL coaching is an exercise of love overwhelming sanity.

          - Mark Beitz, coach


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/17/2003 00:09:26 GMT
            I am only the coach of one team. I am helping the coaches of these other teams as they
            get themselves into the swing of things. I think I will still have some hair left by December!
            Thanks for thinking about me!

            -Skye Sweeney


    4. Message by: ilsgreen2170 09/16/2003 23:50:33 GMT
      For those who have opened up to invite to a elementary school: What is past experience on the percent of eligible students who sign up and show interest?

      A datapoint from the parochial schools in the Appleton, WI area (about 6-9 schools and historically 15-20 teams) is probably about 8-15% of the grade 5-8 eligible student body joins a parochial school FLL team if available.

      Mark Beitz, coach


    5. Message by: Ice Dragons 211 09/17/2003 09:23:40 GMT
      I think that is very unfortunate. The FLL rules state that a team is not to be made up of more than 10 members, but that 7 is ideal. If there are more than 10 then another registration form needs to be completed. Having had a team of 10 one year, and 7 another, I know why they recommend this. I think 10 is too many. YOu end up with kids that do all the work, and some that don't do any. This is an intense program that needs buy-in from all involved. If school leaders and district leaders start telling the teams that they have to open it up to other students, then they should be more involved in recruiting more coaches. That should not be the responsibility of the coach to find more coaches. I think I've rambled enough. I hope that makes sense.


    6. Message by: Foster Foxbots 1782 09/20/2003 04:24:54 GMT
      Hi Skye, Sorry, had to delete the first message. Last year, I had a similar problem. If I hadn't found another solution first, the following was going to be away around the title problems. The way around it, was to have our school district be involved. Rather than Team X Elementary, it would have been Team X School District, along with a lottery to see which kids, up to 10, would be in. But our closed down school was given permission from the district to use it. Good luck and hope this helps.
      S.. My team is in another school district this year.

      Coach flea
      Foster Foxbots


    7. Message by: Red Dragons 09/28/2003 19:15:51 GMT
      Our school district has created a "creativity club" that falls under our district wide gifted and talented program. Academic type after school activities (e.g. Lego Mindstorms, Destination Imagination, etc) then are funded through this club. This helps alleviate any issues when teams are moving from one school to the next. I also coach a Destination Imagination team - my team last year was all at the same elementary school. This year the team is at 3 separate middle schools with one student still at the elementary school. Luckily, we haven't had any funding issues - now it's just a time managment issue!


    8. Message by: Robomaniacs 09/30/2003 04:57:26 GMT
      Another option to look at; I work for a Boys & Girls Club in Maryland. We started the robotics program last year. Initially, we were the only program in the county. In the past year over 200 kids have actively participated in the program (not all of these on competition teams).

      You might want to look into the Boys & Girls Clubs in your areas to see if they might buy into the program. It has been a HUGE success for us - translating into many happy kids and 6 figure grant applications to support the program.

      I would be happy to share our story with any other Boys & Girls club organization that might be interested in participating.

      You can e-mail me mheil@bgcharford.org if any would like to try this route.

      Mark


    9. Message by: Club BOB 10/01/2003 04:01:57 GMT
      Just catching up here but it seems like in the original post the principal is misreading the Title IX rules. Many, many schools have sports teams. By their very natural teams are not open to everyone at the school and must be limited in size.

      The FLL rules are clear that if you have more than 10 kids, you are supposed to register more than one team. So seems like if the principal is going to force the issue, then it would be up to him to get you the needed funds to register more than one team. But it's also unrealist on his part to expect a coach to do multiple teams if the coach doesn't have enough adult helpers.

      But having said that, the idea of a school robotics club that the actual team is drawn from is a good idea.

      If you have to go outside the school, there's also local YMCAs that have had FLL teams or even Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. Or even if you have a community center available to do meetings and do neighborhood teams.

      I've coached both 10 kid teams and smaller groups. It's much easier to deal with a smaller group of kids.

      I was a presenter at the coach's workshop last weekend in Houston. The public school coaches who attended had similar concerns about team size, funding, ect.

      One person said they had 40 kids interested but the school had only registered one team. It was suggested to them that they do a club and draw the actual team from that group and they also approach their principal for more funding to register more than one team.

      Another suggestion for public school coaches was each time they did fundraising efforts that they also make sure the principal is aware of it.

      In this area of state budget cuts, it seems like it would be much harder for some schools not to have to fundraising in order to have enough money to support their local FLL teams. Not all teams can do grants.

      If you happen to be in a poor school district with a high minority population you may be able to get grants to fund robotics in your school. But if you are in a middle class area where that doesn't have a high minority population, you're probably going to have a much harder time getting any grants.

      One private school coach told me if her group did too much fundraising, then the school wouldn't give them any funds. So she was trying to balance it all and figure out a good solution.

      I personally think fundraising helps give the kids ownership in the team since it's a group effort to help the team.

      For myself since we weren't a traditional school team (we homeschool), we always had to be self-funded either out of the parent's pockets or through fundraising. For us sponsors ads on the back of team tshirts along with the sale of Chickfila calendars is what our teams have been funded with. Most of our tshirt sponsors were companies that the parents of the kids on the team had connections with. Each company would pay $100 for ad space on the shirt to have their company name and logo appear when we went to competitions.

      This season we had 5 different groups selling a total of over 900 calendars so most of the groups at least have gotten back enough to recoup their registration fee.

      thanks,

      Susan
      Club BOB


    10. Message by: Clean Up Crew 10/08/2003 05:43:51 GMT
      Skye,

      Our team was a 10 member team last year and down to 8 this year. We were a school team last year and we are not this year. Ours was not a Title IX problem, but a political and administrative problem. Given the opportunity to go to the nationals, we were very actively controlled by school district in fundraising and what we could do and not do. We were also stopped (attempted) from leaving when we needed to leave due to benchmark testing(that could have been made up when we got back). We raised enough money to pay for the entire trip ourselves, but the school still paid for quite a bit of that trip. We had enough left to pay registration for this year, buy a couple of kits for our team, donate $300 to the other team in our town that is still a school team, buy T-Shirts, button making machine, and hopefully cover entry fees and battery costs still to come.

      Being a home based team this year, we do not have to ask anyone what we are allowed to do or when we can leave for nationals??? Ha Ha.... WE WISH... Seriously, it can have advantages not being affiliated with a school, but there can be a lot of money spent out of your own pocket before you know it. But at least your team will be in charge of their own plans.


    11. Message by: Club BOB 10/08/2003 08:05:03 GMT
      I agree. We've always had to do our own fundraising. We could make our own decisions without having to go through anyone. But there were also disadvantages. If the nationals had not been in our home city last April, we would have had to pass it up, our families just were not in a position to travel and we were already done with fundraising.

      I think we just got lucky there, for the next 3 years the nationals will be Atlanta since FIRST high school robotics has a 3 year deal with the facility there.

      The first year we coached a team we paid for pretty much everything out of our pockets, then each year after that,started to get into fundraising with ads on the back of our tshirts and calendar sales.


Discussion: Mission:Mars Logos? By: Team Red Alert 229 11/20/2003 23:55:17 GMT
Anyone know where I can get a .JPG image of the 2003 challenge logo (i.e. the one that says "Mission:Mars")? Last year, FLL released the challenge logo in a couple of sizes to be used in publicity, fundraising, t-shirts, etc. The only thing I can find with the logo this year is a Flash presentation (w/ the images imbedded).

Thanks!

- Scott Kukshtel
Atkinson, NH

  1. Message by: cutten1882 09/29/2003 09:07:36 GMT
    I found a file for the logo somewhere on the site a couple weeks ago. I have attached the zip file to this message.


    1. Message by: 09/29/2003 09:08:18 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: 09/29/2003 09:11:46 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 09/29/2003 20:25:11 GMT
      Thanks, but the image in this .zip file is miniscule! Also, .EPS format is not the easiest to work with.
      Upon more reading in the official Coach's Manual, in the Challenge section it says that logo images are supposed to be available for download from the FLL site. Anyone else have any clue as to where they might be?

      - Scott


      1. Message by: Robomaniacs 09/30/2003 04:47:43 GMT
        Scott,

        I have the images on my computer at work. I will e-mail them to you when I get there tomorrow.

        Mark


        1. Message by: TheWrightStuff 11/20/2003 23:55:17 GMT
          Mark,
          Could you email these to me as well? We're running a little late and making t-shirts over the weekend. Why aren't the images on the website anymore?

          How are you able to email this? Do you need my email address?

          Thanks, Marlisa


    4. Message by: cutten1882 09/30/2003 08:54:27 GMT
      MarsBlasters-

      the zip file opens to a 744 KB bmp...this is a pretty good size file. I can print this with very good definition at about 10.5 inches long (landscape). You might try using another viewer or import it into a word processer document as an object and then stretch it. Good Luck.


    5. Message by: Homeschool2568 10/01/2003 15:12:51 GMT
      I am looking for the same info- the Mission Mars logo in BMP format. Would anyone email me the file? RLewis5557@aol.com for Team Homeschool2568 in CT


    6. Message by: Wildcats1099 10/02/2003 04:17:25 GMT
      I converted the EPS file to a JPEG if anyone wants it. Inserts nicely into Word.
      Monica


    7. Message by: Wildcats1099 10/02/2003 04:18:25 GMT
      I converted the EPS file to a JPEG if anyone wants it. Inserts nicely into Word.
      Monica


      1. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 10/02/2003 05:53:29 GMT
        Thanks Monica! Works like a charm for me.

        - Scott


Discussion: FLL Logo By: Eggo My Legos 10/13/2003 15:42:07 GMT
The Mission: Mars logo is great!

Now, does anyone know where to get the FIRST / FLL logo (i.e. FIRST logo with the FLL imposed over the top)?

  1. Message by: LEGO League - Systemadministrator 10/13/2003 15:19:36 GMT
    you can download it here http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=60


    1. Message by: Eggo My Legos 10/13/2003 15:42:07 GMT
      Hi, I see the various mission logo downloads, but what I am looking for are downloads for the actual FLL logo? Thanks!


Discussion: Reserch By: The Dust Devils1053 11/14/2003 17:33:29 GMT
Hi. I'm Katie from Holmes Middle school in Illinois!! Me and my bud Linda would like to know if there is any info that we can get from THIS website?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/14/2003 05:00:16 GMT
    Humm,
    1) Why are you posting research questions under Marketing
    and PR?

    2) Why not look around a bit. I think you will find a fair
    amount of interesting information. Probably nothing that
    will help your specific research question, but lots to get
    you on your way.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/14/2003 17:33:29 GMT
      yeah


Discussion: Mission Mars Movie By: Tekno Devils40 12/21/2003 14:48:10 GMT
This year Ken Streeter and I (Skye Sweeney) decided to make a
movie to help out FIRST. The movie introduces the missions to
the audience using stop-action animation. We started the week
after the challenge was issued and finished just a week ago.
FIRST has had it reproduced and shipped to all the State
Tournament Directors. We hope that your tournament shows the
movie. We think it fits the bill in a fun way. We would love
to hear what you have to say.

Your comments (positive or negative) are very important to us.
FIRST is asking that we do it again next year. The trouble is
it takes a HUGE amount of time (like 200 hours!) to make. We do
not want to embark on a new movie unless we think it was
worthwhile. Only you can tell us that!

-Skye Sweeney

  1. Message by: Robosharks406 12/08/2003 18:26:26 GMT
    Would love to give you feedback on the movie but after this weekend's snow, I may never get to see it. What arrangements could be made for others to receive a copy. As a computer technology educator and robotics coach with 2 teams, my program could benefit from such a resource.

    -Julia Lightner-Fredyma
    Strafford School, NH


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/08/2003 18:35:36 GMT
      Snow. You got to love it.

      At some point the movie will be put on the web. Not in
      its original DVD quality, but something that you could
      watch and understand.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: harris-194 12/08/2003 19:02:33 GMT
      They showed it at the Colorado State Tournament. Kids liked it! Was also a really cool way to introduce the missions!

      Thanks for putting it together!

      Courtney

      PS. The out-takes were great too!


    3. Message by: Mexico1919 12/09/2003 20:52:47 GMT
      Hi Mr. Sweeney:

      We did not see your movie and would like to know if you could please send us the video via email.
      Thank you.
      Barbara Gomez de Navarro
      Team 1919
      bgn@iwm.com.mx


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/09/2003 21:17:14 GMT
        1919,

        The movie will be available on the web sometime in the
        new year. Right Ken and I are working hard with our
        teams before the state tournament. A link to the movie
        will be placed at:
        http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net

        -Skye


    4. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 12/10/2003 16:56:59 GMT
      Skye, is there a way to verify if a movie was sent to Ohio? I emailed our state coordinator and she said she did not get the movie. Our State tournament is not until Jan 16.

      Yvonne


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/10/2003 17:03:27 GMT
        All state tournament directors were given the choice of
        purchasing a DVD/VHS tape of Scott Evans introducing the
        year's mission. Those that elected this option were also
        sent (free of charge) the DVD/VHS animation that Ken and
        I made. If your state tournament director wants a copy,
        they should call FIRST and ask for it.

        -Skye


    5. Message by: Mexico1919 12/10/2003 17:27:34 GMT
      Skye:

      Thank you. We will check your website for the movie.
      Happy holidays!
      1919


    6. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/19/2003 14:03:31 GMT
      You can find a link to the 5.5 meg web version of the movie
      along with full production notes at:
      http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/2003/2003_movie.htm

      We would love comments as FIRST would like us to make a
      movie for next year. Anything to improve the product would
      be appreciated.

      -Skye Sweeney and Ken Streeter


      1. Message by: Wildcats1099 12/20/2003 07:02:46 GMT
        Skye and Ken,
        I loved it! A movie like that would be the perfect way to kick off the season with the kids. It would really get them into the theme while explaining the tasks. Not using an RCX was perfect. That showed the missions without suggesting a robot form. I didn't see the movie at our state tournament, but I imagine it was a great help in explaining the scoring to the uninitiated.
        Don't know how you found the time- I barely was able to keep up with the coaching part of it and keep the rest of my life under control. Your wives deserve major thanks for allowing us to take so much of your time. Trust me- I'm the wife of a high school FIRST coach as well so I know how it is from the "other side", so please pass along my thanks to them as well as you.
        Monica Grogan


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/20/2003 17:00:49 GMT
          Monica,

          As fas as I know, divorce procedings are still on hold!
          The lucky thing about this project was that it happend
          mostly at home. I was still aroung for dinner and kids
          bedtime. Its just the time I might have spend watching TV
          or working on my own robot was spent making the movie.

          Home projects did get put on hold. I am now under orders
          not to start anything till I complete the "honey-do" list!
          If I vilotate this decree, then I might be trouble!

          As for having the movie available at the start of the season,
          FIRST has asked us the same thing. They are willing to give us
          the challenge kit at the beginning of summer. They wanted
          to include the movie as part of the building instruction CD
          or at least in the challenge kit. My problem with this is
          that the movie added excitement to the tournament. If it
          gets seen early, it is old hat by December. And THERE IS NO
          WAY I am going to make two movies!

          There is also the problem that FIRST changes the challenges
          during a trial in the summer, but the CD would already have
          to be in the hands of the duplicators by them.

          So all in all, I like the end of season movie.

          -Skye


    7. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/21/2003 14:47:24 GMT
      Monica,

      Thanks for expressing your appreciation of the movie! Skye and I really enjoyed putting it together, and are looking forward to doing one next year, even though it was a lot more work than we anticipated. My wife will really appreciate your encouragement! (She is a real gem, and enjoyed watching the "daily updates" as much as Skye and I.)

      Skye and I have been trying to figure out how to balance the "end of season" finale with the desire to have the movie "kick off" the season... Maybe we can finish a "teaser preview" in time for the kickoff, and save the full production for the end of the season? In any case, we're open to other suggestions!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem



Folder: Maryland 11/21/2003 15:42:00 GMT


Discussion: Lansdale Catholic Robotics (PA) Competition - Nov. 22 By: cc6th 11/21/2003 15:42:00 GMT
Lansdale Catholic Robotics is holding it 6th Annual FL Competition. It will be held Nov. 22 at Montgomery County Community College. Come test your designs before the state competitions. All participants will get medals. Each team will have 2 practice rounds and 5 competition runs with high score taking all. Cost is $45 per team of 2 coaches and up to 10 students.

For more information send an mail to pawl@aol.com.

  1. Message by: legolions300 11/21/2003 15:42:00 GMT
    Is there a charge to just watch. Dick @ NASA?
    dickbolt@his.com



Folder: Massachusetts 01/21/2004 23:20:20 GMT



Folder: New Tournament Available 02/29/2004 07:12:59 GMT
There will be a tournament at Quinsigamond Community College in Worcester to wrap up the season. On February 28th, the tournament will start at 8am and will last until about 4. There are still slots available (this will be a large tournament), so if you are interested contact Betty at blauer@qcc.mass.edu.

Discussion: peopple By: FGMS1 01/21/2004 23:51:22 GMT
Our team is holding one of the most greatest compition since the first olympic games ur going to be the best come and prove ur self to are team. No matter if ur outer town we're
Challlenging U.

katherine dufault, Kash, shority,and amasinggggggggggggggggg

Discussion: Timmie Phillips By: FGMS1 01/26/2004 22:35:23 GMT
I'm the new person on the forset grove team. I like math and science. My favorite sport is football. So whats relly good?

Discussion: Quinsigamond Community College Tournament Results By: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 02/29/2004 07:13:16 GMT


  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 02/29/2004 07:12:59 GMT
    Results of the 28 Feb 2004 QCC Tournament are now available in the "Tournament Results" folder.

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem



Folder: reid robtoics 12/02/2003 17:56:44 GMT



Folder: talking 12/09/2003 23:25:33 GMT



Folder: talking 12/09/2003 23:19:59 GMT
talk about lego stuff and school ect


Discussion: dude By: pathfinders 12/09/2003 23:25:33 GMT
this isn a bomb foldar come and talk about logos school girles and other things. I am the avice master.

Discussion: State/local tournaments By: grobots2590 12/16/2003 14:31:07 GMT
I'm going to go in search of information but I was wondering if there are people here that can tell me about Mass tournaments. I heard that Black stone Valley tournament is a good one. Comments?

Dan Rasmussen
Grobots/Groton, Mass.

  1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 10/01/2003 23:33:51 GMT
    Hi, Dan.

    I didn't know there was a second team in Groton. This is our third year, and our team is made up of Groton/Dunstable middle school kids. I can fill you in on tournaments and other stuff. Give me a call if you'd like to compare notes.

    Olin Lathrop
    Embed Inc
    (978) 742-9014


    1. Message by: 10/02/2003 16:24:24 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: grobots2590 10/02/2003 22:52:29 GMT
      Hello Olin,

      I think I spoke to your business partner a couple of weeks ago (Dick). I'll give you a call some time soon. It would be good to chat with another local.

      I have a group of eight Groton/Dunstable middle schoolers.

      Dan


    3. Message by: 10/19/2003 01:58:15 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: LegoBrains2820 10/29/2003 19:41:18 GMT
      Looking for Tournaments in Ma other than Blackstone, Quincy, and WPI. Any in Western MA?


      1. Message by: sharonB2965 10/30/2003 15:59:20 GMT
        No, there never have been. The only one that has happened, but I have not heard about yet this year is Charlton. That is as far west as any.

        --Jack Gregory


        1. Message by: 11/04/2003 18:21:22 GMT
          Deleted


        2. Message by: Berkshire Robotics Challenge5026 11/24/2003 17:39:53 GMT
          I beg to differ with you Jack. The Berkshire Robotics Challenge is going into its 5th year here in Berkshire County. Our competition is usually about 24-26 teams and is going strong! It's held in Lenox, MA. The reason you may not know about us is that we're not an "official" Lego event. We don't hold our event until February or March of the following year. Teams are still welcome to compete in the official events though. Our teams still go by the official rules and guidelines. Lego and USFirst have been very supportive and helpful to us in the past with issues that have come up. If anyone is interested in joining us, let me know ASAP since we are full (but willing to take in anyone who is interested, first-come, first-served).

          Thank you.

          Dorothy Curtiss
          Berkshire Robotics Challenge
          Berkshire Applied Technology Council


          1. Message by: sharonB2965 11/26/2003 15:08:11 GMT
            Well, that is good news. But if a total FLL-dedicated nut like me hasn't heard about your tournament, you aren't getting the word out enough! Do you have a web site? Why not use the FLL announcement board? They allow unofficial tournaments to be listed.

            --Jack Gregory


            1. Message by: Berkshire Robotics Challenge5026 12/12/2003 15:46:42 GMT
              Hi Jack. There are several reasons why you haven't heard about our tournament and why we don't advertise it outside the county. Most of the teams we have are veterans from the County's schools. They take most of the open slots each year leaving few openings for other teams. Also, the school we hold the competition in (as wonderful as it is!) obviously has limitations on the number of people the auditorium can hold and the number of cars the parking lot can hold. If our Challenge Day were to get any larger we would have to find another place to hold it and there are limited spaces that large with the resources we need in our area. Lenox Memorial Middle High School is a fantastic arena for us. They have all of the "gadgets" that allow us to broadcast the event to the pit area, the equipment the guest speakers require, and the knowledgable people to make it all possible.

              We do however have a team entered from Rutland, MA this year, so we are getting the word out there!

              Dorothy
              Berkshire Robotics Challenge


      2. Message by: Reid Robotics 10/30/2003 17:57:18 GMT
        Yes, there is a tournament in western MA. It will be held in Lenox. It is sponsored by Berkshire Applied Technology Council Inc.For more information contact Dorothy Curtiss. Her e-mail adress is dcurtiss@TheBATC.org
        Jenna


      3. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/01/2003 19:02:32 GMT
        Looking for Tournaments in Ma other than Blackstone, Quincy, and WPI. Any in Western MA?

        I vaguely remember seeing discussion last year about a tournament in Greenfield (or Pitsfield ?), but I'm not sure it ever happened.


    5. Message by: Woot! 10/31/2003 02:10:11 GMT
      Can we set a brick(wedge) on the field for the alliance hab. module? That way, it wil stay until the other team puts their side up.
      Zach Delong
      Woot! Hyannis Mass.


    6. Message by: harris-194 10/31/2003 02:17:32 GMT
      Would be a good idea to browse the forum. If you look under the 'Rules and Missions Questions' folder you'll find a thread about the Alliance Habitation module mission.

      Here's a link: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?13@@.ee95a9d

      Courtney
      Harris-194


    7. Message by: 11/04/2003 18:16:37 GMT
      Deleted


    8. Message by: 11/04/2003 18:17:35 GMT
      Deleted


    9. Message by: 11/04/2003 18:18:59 GMT
      Deleted


    10. Message by: Greybots 11/25/2003 02:28:31 GMT
      is there going to be a lcd computer projector at WPI for people to use for their research presentation?


      1. Message by: sharonB2965 11/26/2003 15:09:20 GMT
        You need to ask Mike Sherman at WPI for that. See the web site for contact info.

        --Jack Gregory


    11. Message by: Woot! 12/15/2003 22:56:03 GMT
      I am also searching for a MA lego robotics competition, I am looking for one some time from febuary to end of May. anyone know any good ones? My team has competed in a competition already this year and did not do to well because we could no longer program. we are interested in trying again but we cant find any in MA that haunt already happen or happen in a few days. I read about the one below but you said it fills up fast and I'm not sure if there are spots available. If spots are still open, can you tell me when it is occuring and were to register at?

      thank you in advance


    12. Message by: grobots2590 12/15/2003 23:49:24 GMT
      Hi Woot,

      Someone was at Robonautica this past weekend with a stack of flyers attempting to drum up interest in a new tournament to take place in February (not the Lenox one). I think it was at a local community college. I think I have the flyer at home and will post the info later today or tomorrow.

      Dan Rasmussen
      The Grobots


    13. Message by: grobots2590 12/16/2003 14:31:07 GMT
      Here's the information on the other tournament I posted about yesterday:

      Date: Saturday, Feb 28, 9:00AM to 4:00PM
      Location: Quinsigamond Community College, Worcester, MA
      Contact: blauer@qcc.mass.edu

      Good luck.

      Dan Rasmussen
      The Grobots


Discussion: Challenge Set Available By: sharonB2965 11/24/2003 14:46:33 GMT
My group may have an extra challenge set available. Still in boxes. If a team in Massaschusetts is interested, email me at jgg@ultranet.com. We need to recover our cost on it, but we won't be asking any price beyond that. You should be able to successfully transfer the team ID to your team, as I was able to do the same thing last year.

--Jack Gregory

  1. Message by: sharonB2965 11/24/2003 14:46:33 GMT
    The set has been sold. Thanks.
    --Jack Gregory


Discussion: Massachusetts Tournaments By: Reid Robotics 01/21/2004 23:20:20 GMT
Hi, I was just wondering if anyone knew about any good places where a tournament might take place in Massachusetts???

  1. Message by: sharonB2965 10/16/2003 22:13:53 GMT
    There are 3 published. See "Teams and Tournaments" on this web site.

    --Jack Gregory


    1. Message by: grobots2590 10/19/2003 01:55:46 GMT
      If you are interested in a tournament just for fun (not to competitive) I suggest going to the blackstone valley tournament.

      And if you want to get more competitive go to the WPI robonautica tournament. Watch out for our team!

      Matt and Nick


      1. Message by: spiritofmars2435 11/15/2003 20:40:26 GMT
        We will at the tournament on Saturday. It looks like we could get up to 303 points if we are lucky. How many can you get?


    2. Message by: Reid Robotics 10/31/2003 21:09:14 GMT
      hello,
      I was wondering, would any of the past challenge designs help in this year's mission mars tournament?
      -Heidi


    3. Message by: Reid Robotics 11/03/2003 16:59:48 GMT
      Hello I was just wondering if anyone knew of a cool robot design because my team wants to be really creative and my team and I need some knew ideas
      -Stephanie from reid robotics


      1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/03/2003 17:13:20 GMT
        Hello I was just wondering if anyone knew of a cool robot design because my team wants to be really creative and my team and I need some knew ideas

        This is exactly the kind of thing each team needs to figure out for themselves. Besides, having someone else give you the ideas is hardly creative. It's also a lot less fun and rewarding.


        1. Message by: 11/06/2003 17:35:45 GMT
          Deleted


    4. Message by: 11/04/2003 18:09:43 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: Reid Robotics 11/06/2003 20:43:43 GMT
      Hi,
      I was just wondering if anybody had any ideas of robot designs that would fit the ramp because my team's ideas were really bad.If you do post it on the forum so my team can see if they'll work
      Thanks ahead of time!!
      -alex,allison,and heidi


    6. Message by: Reid Robotics 11/13/2003 15:16:19 GMT
      Sup,
      A I was just wonderin that if there is two teams could you split each team evenly between programers and builders or do you have a group of programers for both teams?


    7. Message by: Reid Robotics 11/17/2003 15:38:33 GMT
      yo if you are a programer halla back at my last questtion k?

      by:Inu-yasha


    8. Message by: grobots2590 12/15/2003 18:17:23 GMT
      Hi,

      I would like to publicly thank the organizers of Robonautica III and the Blackstone Valley tournaments. Our team (The Grobots) participated at both and had a wonderful time. Both of these tournaments made it exciting and interesting for the kids. The organization of these tournaments must be a monumental effort. I can't thank everyone involved enough.

      It looks like I'll have every kid back next year (except for one that dropped out a while ago).

      Dan Rasmussen


    9. Message by: Woot! 01/13/2004 22:24:43 GMT
      Can we have a referee put the canister into the launcher. Some teams did this at WPI


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/13/2004 22:38:21 GMT
        Under what circumstances did a ref put the canister into
        the launcher?

        I would be hard pressed to think of a scenario were this
        would be legal. The team's ROBOT is supposed to put the
        ball in the MAV then launch it! Why not then just ask the
        ref to trigger the MAV at the same time, and since they are
        at it, how about removing that pesky dust and ....

        -Skye


    10. Message by: Woot! 01/13/2004 22:26:18 GMT
      There is another competition bein held in Worcester


    11. Message by: FGMS1 01/21/2004 23:20:20 GMT
      hey whats good??
      did you hear about that tournament going on in worcester those kids in worcester are really good you guys should really come down and watch to see how good they are cause they are really good.

      FGMS ROBOTICS

      BIG B,LIL LIZZY,EXCITING ELISA,MELL DOUBLE L


Discussion: Robot Designs By: grobots2590 11/21/2003 05:08:18 GMT
Please post robot design ideas for us and don't worry we wont completely copy your designs.

Nick and Matt

1/4 of the Grobots

  1. Message by: 10/22/2003 23:05:42 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: Reading 657 10/22/2003 23:51:42 GMT
      You may want to get a copy of the windstorms Construction Manual that comes with the windstorm set. It has some basic designs that will help you get started and then modify.Roverbot is a good basic design to start with.


    2. Message by: Reid Robotics 10/31/2003 21:16:39 GMT
      hi, im part of a team that is studing the robolab
      my partners alex and heidi are looking for a good ideas
      to make our robot better if you have any tips please write

      thanks,
      allison,alex and heidi


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/31/2003 21:37:07 GMT
        You may want to poke around my web site at:
        http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/01/2003 19:05:06 GMT
        hi, im part of a team that is studing the robolab
        my partners alex and heidi are looking for a good ideas
        to make our robot better if you have any tips please write


        There is another section of this forum devoted to RoboLab issues. You'll probably get much better response there because it won't be limited to those looking in the Massachusetts folder.


        1. Message by: spiritofmars2435 11/21/2003 05:08:18 GMT
          We found it more dependable to use the wheels that are about 1.5 inches. The real big ones go fast but are hard to make accurate and consistant.
          We try to use sensors to tell the robot where it is. The touch and light sensors we used this year. The "wait for darker" command works well with the big lines if your light sensor is not too close (less than 1 inch) from the field. If you set it too close or make it too sensitive, it will pick up black shading from the field as well as the lines.
          Batteries are important. If you use time to program your robot, the distance it travels after 5-8 full runs may vary by up to three inches. You may want to replace the batteries often at competitions.
          Hope this helps!


    3. Message by: Reid Robotics 10/31/2003 21:17:32 GMT
      hey,
      you may want to pick up the new mindstorms booklet, that way you can get your own unique designs for your team.

      -Heidi


Discussion: robots By: Reid Robotics 11/10/2003 22:08:45 GMT


  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/05/2003 21:49:44 GMT
    whats up reid robotics this is Blaine bat heads


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/05/2003 21:59:54 GMT
      hey


      1. Message by: Reid Robotics 11/06/2003 17:36:29 GMT
        HEY


    2. Message by: Reid Robotics 11/06/2003 20:39:19 GMT
      Hey, whats up ?


    3. Message by: Reid Robotics 11/06/2003 20:42:37 GMT
      Hello,
      whats up Blaine bat heads ?
      -Heidi


    4. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 22:08:45 GMT
      Hi.Its us again


Discussion: habitatii By: pathfinders 12/23/2003 21:50:27 GMT


  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 12/02/2003 22:00:33 GMT
    yo yo you yo whats up


    1. Message by: Reid Robotics 12/04/2003 18:11:55 GMT
      can u answer my ? if u have a robot has a moter that is not fast what is a nothere way to make it fast


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/04/2003 19:44:20 GMT
        To make an axle rotate faster than the motor, you need to
        use gears. Place a bigger gear on the motor and a smaller
        gear on the axle. When the motor gear goes around once, the
        smaller gear will rotate more than once. The greater the
        difference in sizes, the faster the axle will turn.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: pathfinders 12/09/2003 23:17:19 GMT
          dude u stole my answer that is not cool


        2. Message by: pathfinders 12/23/2003 21:50:27 GMT
          dude


      2. Message by: 12/09/2003 23:13:43 GMT
        Deleted


    2. Message by: pathfinders 12/09/2003 23:16:12 GMT
      nm waz^ with u


Discussion: habitation module By: pathfinders 12/02/2003 22:41:12 GMT
A question for those who have been in a competition...

Where are the 180 degree habitation modules placed at the start of the competition? We are unclear of where to put them to test out our robot... PLEASE HELP! Dudes and Dudettes come to our rescue. :)

  1. Message by: harris-194 12/02/2003 22:31:34 GMT
    You should take a few minutes and read the posts about the habitation modules. That should answer your questions.

    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?13@@.ee95a9b

    Courtney
    Harris-194


    1. Message by: pathfinders 12/02/2003 22:41:12 GMT
      Thank you harris-194 this has answered our ? thank you again for the avice one more ? did you ever need the same answer.


Discussion: solor panel By: Reid Robotics 12/05/2003 17:31:06 GMT
Can you get all the dust compleatly off the solo panel? Well it depends on the robot, because if you have big wheels it difintly won't work. If you have small wheels it might work.

~Stephanie From Reid Robotics


Folder: Michigan 02/18/2004 19:49:24 GMT



Folder: FJH First lego League 11/05/2003 03:03:16 GMT
go to our home page


Folder: Gearheads of the future 11/10/2003 15:46:06 GMT
Hello, I am the Gearhead's robotic humaniod. Is anybody else a robot?

Discussion: reasearch project By: GearHeads1198 10/27/2003 22:35:57 GMT
Anybody doing the reaserch project? I want to say my ideas!

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/27/2003 22:35:57 GMT
    ok then say your ideis already!!


Discussion: communications By: GearHeads1198 11/10/2003 15:46:06 GMT
Sorry, our robot was set at the computer by a funny boy. I'm a Kid. So, I think Ive mastered this! for information and answers, contact me with this chat room/ chat hallway.

  1. Message by: GearHeads1198 10/26/2003 23:36:00 GMT
    I post to many things dont I? right? come on people@!!!!!


    1. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 11/10/2003 15:46:06 GMT
      wes need help on the research project
      -DaToxicLawnGnomes



Folder: LEGO websites? 12/09/2003 05:02:09 GMT
Does anyone have their own LEGO team homepage? I was thinking about making one for my team, but im not sure.

Discussion: yes By: Bedford Broncobots 12/09/2003 05:02:09 GMT
we do, http://bjhsrobotics.freewebpage.org/

  1. Message by: GearHeads1198 10/26/2003 23:30:29 GMT
    no, but its a good idea.


    1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 12/09/2003 05:02:09 GMT
      We have a page up at: http://www.bremenrobotics.org

      The information displayed is from last year, but it might give you some ideas. Login as guest with a password of guest to look at the good stuff.

      Les Turner
      Bremen Botz! - 195



Folder: rover raiders 11/04/2003 04:16:14 GMT


Discussion: hey talk to me rovers By: ToxicLawnGnomes624 11/04/2003 04:16:14 GMT
hey rovers

  1. Message by: Hoboz624 09/22/2003 14:50:35 GMT
    I can't find the research topic and other people are saying that you cannot get it on a mac.


    1. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 09/26/2003 14:42:40 GMT
      Hey rovers and Who ever teams are looking at this Me and my team were wondering what city you guys are from btw we r from Ann Arbor, And this is our first time in the competition and we are doing it as a class at school but maybe you guys are just a group of friends that desided to do this. well bye


      1. Message by: DanaUnicorns 09/27/2003 15:32:00 GMT
        We are From a small town called Bedford Michigan


    2. Message by: DanaUnicorns 09/27/2003 15:30:22 GMT
      Does anybody out there know if you lift the Alliance Habatatianol Modual will stay up.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/27/2003 18:35:20 GMT
        If properly made and properly installed on a table, each
        side of the Alliance Habitation module will not stay up
        on its own. You must somehow hold it in place.

        If BOTH side are raised, they will snap together with the
        magnets and them WILL stay up on their own.

        -Skye


    3. Message by: detroitriders2004 09/29/2003 20:08:39 GMT
      whaddup do we gon whoop yall buts with our plan


      1. Message by: ghettomars2233 10/10/2003 15:37:31 GMT
        Ya'll bout to lose stop frontin' ghettomars comin through. younginz. We big Pimpin' and sweet as you know what


    4. Message by: 10/10/2003 15:32:54 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: 11/04/2003 02:46:48 GMT
      Deleted


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/04/2003 04:16:14 GMT
        Please read the request from FIRST on the login page to
        maintain "gracious profesionalism". That includes name
        calling and negative comments.

        -Skye



Folder: State Tournament Wrap-Up 12/14/2003 03:57:52 GMT
Comments about the MI State Tournament Results

Discussion: Congratulations By: Robonauts 12/08/2003 07:34:41 GMT
Congratulations for all job well done to all of the teams participating in the state tournament. Special accolades to all of the award finalists and an envious hats off to the winners of those really cool ego trophies!

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/08/2003 02:39:14 GMT
    Yes, they are great "ego" (and LEGO) trophies!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Robonauts 12/08/2003 07:34:41 GMT
      Oops! I'm telling you, the spell checker did that. Next year, they need to add the word L-E-G-O to the dictionary!


Discussion: Light Sensor Issues at the State Tournament? By: Robonauts 12/11/2003 19:55:51 GMT
Did anyone else have issues with programs that relied on light sensors at the State tournament? Two of our missions failed every time by stumbling on erroneous light sensor inputs. We actually did not use very many light sensor commands, but each of these missions failed when we were waiting for a light sensor input. The programs ran flawlessly for the practice round, when we practiced them at the tournament practice tables and again when we tested them at home today. We even tested them at home with various light levels and they were uneffected.

Unfortunately, the tables and lights were dissassembled rapidly after the tournament and we had no opportunity to check light readings post facto. I am wondering if the various halogen lights in the competition area could have thrown things off or if someone's video camera light could have affected the robot? The only other possibility I can come up with is variation in the shadings on the mat itself.

Still puzzled.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/08/2003 04:12:05 GMT
    One of the big problems for teams. The light varies from
    table to table. Some tables have the overhead lights,
    some do not, some rooms have sodium vapor gym lights, others
    do not. This is a problem that you need to solve ahead of
    time. Try running the robot in the pitch dark. Try running
    it with a bright light shinning down. How do you get the
    robot to always work?

    A few more suggestions are on the FAQ.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: dragondevils119 12/08/2003 05:16:06 GMT
      Yes, we too encountered light sensor problems in the practice round and the 1st and 2nd round. We assumed that the 3rd round would fail also but it didn't. We also tried at someone's table and it worked OK. There must have been something extraneous but I didn't notice any other lights around. Our practice and round 1 was on the Mercury tables, second round on Venus and the 3rd on Neptune. We never had a problem at home either.


      1. Message by: Robonauts 12/08/2003 07:30:18 GMT
        Great comeback! I tried to watch your last round but couldn't get anywhere near the table. Standing on top of the bleachers wasn't even enough to see over everyone's heads. All I could see were the girls biting their nails the whole time:)

        Read my reply to Skye if you want. Were your problems similiar? Were your failure modes consistent?

        For the record, we failed on Planet-X, Mars and Neptune. We practiced on Jupiter when everything worked well.


    2. Message by: Robonauts 12/08/2003 07:19:35 GMT
      Skye,
      Thanks for the feedback. I'm suprised you have been monitoring the MI forum. How do you find the time???

      Since you are an engineer, and might be interested in a more complete problem description, maybe I will elaborate some more. But first a little background info. I have read your materials and I have seen your website and the FAQ's. Without going into a lot of detail, I also have a fair amount of experience coaching this material and some of my kids have four robotics competitions under their belts. I also am a practicing product development engineer (I've even worked with BAE Systems!) All this is only to say that when I puzzled, I'm really puzzled.

      The problem is a little deeper than a basic light sensor issue. 4 out 5 missions used light sensors. Two of these missions were successful every time and two failed every time. Line following was used on one mission that was always successful and one mission that was always unsuccessful.

      As you know, this year's mat was pretty tricky because of the low contrast between the lines and the background and the presence of lots of shadows. However, following a fat line was pretty easy do because the shadows would not throw off the robot long enough for it to lose the line. On the other hand, looking for an intersection with a light sensor posed a lot of problems because the light sensor might pick up a shadow instead. However, my kids are pretty bright and came up with a technique where they would coarsely navigate with the rotation sensor until they were close to a grid line and then they would start looking for a grid line. In other words, to stop in front of the crater, they would travel straight for about 800 rotations and then look for the fat line with their light sensor. They were careful and experimented with rotation sensor resolution until they could consistently detect the correct landmark every time.

      Here is where it gets interesting. Both programs that failed on the competition tables failed at these points in the programs. Both of these missions found dark spots on the table and prematurely started executing subsequent program commands. This may not seem unusual except that the robot was literally 6 inches away in one case and 24 inches away in the other case from the spots where the program should have stepped from a wait for rotations command to a wait for darker command. Furthermore, both of these programs got tripped up on the competition tables in the exact same spot every single time. They also executed correctly right before and right after every single single match! Lastly, after running each of these missions probably 100 times, we never saw this failure mode!! The other two missions that succeeded also used this technique and they executed flawlessly.

      So really, our issue seems to be more of a rotation sensor misread than a light sensor issue. How on Mars can that possibly fail? Although I am not an electrical engineer, I know a little bit about the internals of the rotation sensor and I wonder if the infrared blizzard in the tournament area might penetrate the rotation sensor housing. Or, could the massive steel table supports used at our competition have some sort of an effect?

      Unfortunately, the tournament conditions cannot be recreated and I could not convince my son to try more than a dozen runs or so before he wanted tear his robot down and start building some new creation! Therefore, I am left to be forever tormented by not knowing why this happenned - you have to be an engineer to understand the torment part:)


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/08/2003 14:01:50 GMT
        When it comes to adictions, one makes the time! I even
        monitor the foreign forums that I can understand.

        I would not think that the rotation sensor would be subject
        to IR interference. The housing is dark blue plastic and
        the IR beam inside is fairly strong.

        The rotation sensor does have a problem if it turns faster
        than 300 or slower than 50 RPM. 300 RPM is the speed of
        an unloaded motor. But this failure mode is variable and
        would not change based on table.

        I still think you had a light sensor problem. The bright
        lights over the table cast deep shadows and create bright
        spots. With the contrast already low, the variation makes
        it even lower. Now add the position of overhead lights
        (I am assuming sodium vapor) with high IR content and you
        may totally overcome the mat contrast.

        It has also been observed that the light sensor output is
        a function of battery power. That throws yet another variable
        into the mix.

        I have nothing else to offer at this time, but will think
        about your problem over the next week.

        -Skye


    3. Message by: dragondevils119 12/08/2003 15:10:37 GMT
      Our problem was strictly related to the light sensor. The rotation sensor worked OK. And we only use the light sensor on our first mission, after that it is strictly rotation and touch. The one thing I did notice was that the area in the base seemed to be darker than the area by the MAV. But I am looking from afar. These are the 2 areas which would have made a big difference if the values were too far apart. Interesting that ours worked on a table where yours failed? I think we'll be working on a better algorithm for the future.


    4. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/08/2003 18:58:50 GMT
      Robonauts, I agree with Skye that it sounds like your problems were light-sensor related. Alternatively, I suppose that there may have been some problem with the mat on the table that was giving you problems.

      A few things to try:

      You need to figure out if your programs are susceptible to changes to lighting. Try running the programs in the dark. Move the table outside on a sunny day. Do the light sensor portions of the program still work? If not, how can this be fixed? Last year, the team I coached had a robot that made extensive use of line-following. (Light sensors were used in every mission except one.) Their robot would run the missions in pitch darkness, or in full sunlight. (We tried both!) I can't give away all of the team's hard-earned findings from extensive playing with line-following last year, but I can at least tell you that if the team can't get the robot to work in these extreme conditions, then they may be subject to differences in ambient lighting.

      Skye is also right that the light sensors give slightly different readings based upon battery levels. This can be addressed by either controlling battery levels, or coming up with solutions that work independent of battery levels.

      Also, we have found that light sensor levels vary from sensor to sensor (that is, not all light sensors are equal). The team I coach has measured variations of as much as 10-units between two different light sensors (measured off of the same port of the same RCX at the same battery level.) This throws another problem in the mix for teams with multiple light sensors on their robot, or for teams with multiple robots (a primary and a backup.)

      That said, there are a lot of different techniques for working within the light sensor constraints for teams that have the time to pursue solutions. The mat this year is much more difficult for light sensor usage, but not impossible. The team I coach is able to mostly reliably count and/or follow the fat lines. I wish your team the best for next year!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/08/2003 20:54:19 GMT
        Ken may have hit the nail on the head. If one mat had a
        wrinkle in it, the distance to the mat would change. This
        would cause changing light values from table to table.

        Sounds like the year my team got a dusty table. We had no
        traction and failed miserably at the tables.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Legonauts4 12/11/2003 19:55:51 GMT
          One other thing to consider is that the mats were different in size and shading. This could cause some of the problems. I have two mats that are different in coloration and also in size. the mats at the tournament were also different, the practice mat provided was different than the tournament mats and positions had to be adapted to the tournament table only and not the practice mat.

          -Dave
          Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


      2. Message by: Robonauts 12/09/2003 05:06:43 GMT
        Thanks for the advise Mayhem, but again, I know most of these things and I really don't think that any of these possible issues were a factor in this case. We retested the robot at home again under various lighting conditions and it still functioned okay. Although I did not go so far as to move the table outside (its kind of overcast and dreary this time of year in Michigan anyway), I did shoot some video of the robot with a spotlight on the camera pointed directly at it. This also did not throw it off.

        Nonetheless, I won't definitely rule out anything. I also understand your point about making robust light sensors. I showed them a technique two years ago when we first started doing this. Alas, they don't always listen and this robot could have been a lot better. I tend to manage the team the same way I manage my suppliers - I keep checking up on them to review their progress and look for issues. Then I push them to fix things and don't get involved unless they are completely stumped and I have to. Just like my suppliers, they don't always listen until they fail for themselves. We had a talk about what might have happened and I know that next year those light sensors are going to be buried!


    5. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/08/2003 19:01:42 GMT
      Robonauts, I just realized I didn't say anything about the "stray IR" section of your question. It is possible that somebody with a Lego Remote or stray IR could have affected the robot. My suggestion is to completely cover the IR port on the RCX with Lego. In this way, it should not be subject to stray IR. There is debate as to whether or not this is necessary, but it won't do any harm to cover the IR port with Lego. (However, the team does need to remember to take the cover off when they want to program their own bot!)

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: Robonauts 12/09/2003 04:45:27 GMT
        Mindstorms Mayhem, I wasn't thinking about stray IR affecting the RCX IR port but I was wondering if IR could could upset the rotation sensor output? The "IR Blizzard" that I refered to was the countless still and video cameras surrounding the competition tables. At the MI state tournament, there were 16 tables in the competition area which was jammed with at least 100 parents at any given time trying to videotape the kids (I'm not exagerating)! Since many of these cameras use an active IR sensing system to focus the lens, I was wondering if any of this IR energy could penetrate the rotation sensor housing and change its output? While most solids are generally opaque to IR, I know some are not because of wavelengths and molecular structure and science like that. If I knew that any of that stuff was this important, I would have stayed awake in my chemistry and physics lecture halls:D


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/09/2003 05:22:15 GMT
          I would think that the probability of having the rotation
          sensor effected by your IR blizzard would be next to zero.
          But I have been proven wrong in the past!

          -Skye


          1. Message by: Robonauts 12/10/2003 02:45:04 GMT
            I agree, but I'm groping for possible failure modes. One of the programs that failed was extremely simple and straightforward. What could cause the program to step to the next command after a rotation sensor wait command when the rotation sensor shouldn't have been anywhere near the rotation value specified????


            1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/10/2003 04:47:47 GMT
              Well lets try taking this a step at a time. Take one of the
              failed programs. Could you give us the english pseudo code
              for it? Something like:
              1) Reset RS
              2) Motor A+C fwd full power
              3) Wait for RS to be greater or equal to 100
              4) Wait for LS to be less than or equal to 40
              5) Full stop.

              Now can you give us a mechanical description?
              Wheel type, gear ratio from motor to wheel and from motor
              to RS, and location of LS.

              One posibility is that you are over or under speeding the
              RS. Above 300 and bellow 50 RPM it does weird things.
              The other is you did not use "Waitfor Dark" but rather the
              "Waitfor darker" icons. In this case, where you stop could
              give you very different results. But I will wait for the
              two descriptions!

              Perhaps a digital photo is in order? (Opps you took the
              pesty bot apart right?)

              -Skye


    6. Message by: dragondevils119 12/10/2003 02:15:12 GMT
      From another Dragon Devil: Our practice and first two rounds were on the west(?) side of the arena, where there was a row of flourescents on behind the bleachers. Our last round was on the east(?) side where it was all dark except for the table lights.


    7. Message by: dragondevils119 12/10/2003 05:23:54 GMT
      I'm going to throw in my 2 cents worth and tell you what happened on some of our programs. We had been practicing for several weeks on the table and noticed it was getting dusty. So we took paper towel and cleaned the large rubber wheels and the mat. Boy, did that screw up our programs. The wheels had been slipping all the time and didn't realize it. We had to adjust several areas where we used rotation. We also lowered the speed.


    8. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/10/2003 16:40:27 GMT
      Firstly, congratulations to the Dragon Devils - a very impressive performance!

      Our team used light sensors throughout our missions, but only for line following, and had no trouble. We did have plenty of other problems not related to the light sensors.

      We used light sensor calibration every match to adjust for differing table conditions and differing battery levels, but our calibration method does not account for varying light levels over the table.

      To increase the reliability of our light sensor usage, we used a different definition of light and dark from that used in the 2002 season, due to the different nature of the Mars mat.

      Dave, Big Green Coach


Discussion: Examples of "Gracious Professionalism" By: Robonauts 12/14/2003 03:57:52 GMT
A special thanks to Ghetto Mars for permitting us the opportunity to borrow their FLL competition table that they had set up in their pits so we could test our robot! We were anxious to check out a couple of programming tweaks prior to our final round and the practice tables that the tournament provided were monopolized by teams who were either camped out around the table to hold it while their robot was back in the pits for service or by other teams who had laptops and lego parts covering the table while they performed major alterations.

Thanks again to a very kind neighbor!!!

  1. Message by: DominatorsII650 12/12/2003 20:14:59 GMT
    A sincere thank you goes to SWATT for allowing us to use your MAV ball to practice with in between rounds! We had been without one since the regional, and that was one mission we were quite anxious about.

    Also thank you to the Robonauts for those fantastic score sheets!


    1. Message by: Robonauts 12/14/2003 03:57:52 GMT
      Your welcome DominatorsII !

      I was hoping that someone might appreciate them because I didn't see too many teams using them. I personally like like to keep my own record (yes, I keep score at the baseball game!) and they make excellent mementos for the kid's scrapbook. About the only thing missing was a place to record the human player's names on the scoresheet.

      I designed the scoresheet and the kids made all of the cover sheets. Next year, I am hoping that one of the older kids can use this one as a model to make a new scoresheet.



Folder: Total Points 12/05/2003 00:04:48 GMT
How many points can your robot get on the board just checking to see if we're close to above average?


Discussion: how many points By: flare1078 12/05/2003 00:04:48 GMT
How many points maximum are you teams going to get whats the highest score you've seen at any competitions so far

  1. Message by: flare1078 11/20/2003 04:27:15 GMT
    Just so all you know we are above 300 what bout those oxford cats or dragon devils


    1. Message by: dragondevils119 11/23/2003 05:43:03 GMT
      Hi flare1078, we had the top score of 315 at our regional today which was good for first place. We do better when we practice. Good luck. See you at the state.


      1. Message by: Robonauts 11/27/2003 07:08:35 GMT
        Dragon Devils, I think the ICEBERGS have you in their cross hairs. I helped coach that team the past two years but this year I now have my own team because of logistics and scheduling conflicts. However, I wanted to have a friendly "scrimmage" with them next week but they turned me down because they were too busy "programming and practicing" for the state tournament.

        The scores at the Sterling Heights tournament were considerably lower. Although we finished second, we did not do as well as we could have. Unfortunately, the lights in the gymnasium kept getting turned on and off, which had a significant impact on light readings (8 St shift). Since the pits were in the cafeteria, we were taken by suprise the first two rounds when we came out to run our robot. Fortunately, the team recovered and managed to put together a respectable third round. Hopefully, somebody will lock out the light switch at Nov!


        1. Message by: dragondevils119 11/29/2003 04:20:20 GMT
          We've noticed that the teams are getting better every year and this year's missions are a lot tougher. And yes, the Icebergs are a good team too. They were the all around top team at the Fraser tournament. We're just looking to have some fun at the state tourney since this will be our last Lego League tournament as the Dragon Devils. Good luck at Novi!!


    2. Message by: DominatorsII650 11/24/2003 00:04:47 GMT
      We got first place in our tournament too. We had 313 total points. We launched the MAV launcher without the ball, so we lost a couple of points there. We are hopeful we can do better at state... C U there...


    3. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 11/24/2003 22:24:58 GMT
      We got first place at the White Lake tournament - 290 points. I hope we do better at state!

      Who knows what happened at the Linden tournament? The Oxford Cats were going to be there.


    4. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/25/2003 22:19:04 GMT
      the most is 339


    5. Message by: Roboknights1 12/01/2003 17:50:09 GMT
      Did any of these teams do the alliance module mission?


      1. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/01/2003 21:24:02 GMT
        Yes, we did.


    6. Message by: flare1078 12/03/2003 04:12:33 GMT
      we didnt at warm up but we did at regionals see everybody at states


    7. Message by: flare1078 12/05/2003 00:04:48 GMT
      ya we had trouble too at regionals we went ot the svsu. One team had 321 and got first. We are ready though we can beat the 315 easy if we get a perfect run i think that's right. we're ready for some competiton. This is also our last year too. Well good luck come and say hi at novi to flare.



Folder: URGENT - "We need your help" 11-26-2003 12/01/2003 19:23:11 GMT
Our team, FLARE #1078, need your help. Our Red Canister Ball turned up missing at the end of our Regional Tournament at the Dephi Tournament held at SVSU. Since we qualified for the State tournament, we desperately need either a replacement, or the dimensions and mass so we can construct a replica. Can anyone help us? You can reply here or email at dannywags@yahoo.com. Thanks!

Discussion: Red Ball By: flare1078 12/01/2003 19:22:31 GMT
Thanks to Tim and Monica Grogan for lending their Red Ball to Team Flare in our time of need. It's people of your class and generosity that make FIRST the outstanding organization it is. I'm proud to be affiliated with such people. Thanks again!

Coach Dan Wagner
Flare 1078


Folder: West Michigan LEGO Mania - Regional Tournament 10/27/2003 22:02:41 GMT
Leave messages here for this tournament.
Nov. 22 at Mac Bay School

Discussion: Hello By: DanaUnicorns 11/05/2003 03:49:45 GMT
Hi Michigan from the Dana Unicorns! Good luck to all! Email us at danaunicorns@aol.com! See you soon!

  1. Message by: 09/15/2003 14:31:19 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: 09/15/2003 14:31:22 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: 09/15/2003 14:36:55 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: 09/15/2003 14:44:13 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: 09/15/2003 14:48:06 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: 09/15/2003 14:49:00 GMT
      Deleted


    6. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 09/17/2003 14:28:39 GMT
      hey
      wats goin on


    7. Message by: flare1078 09/22/2003 21:55:14 GMT
      Hey was going on we wish everyone luck this year we can't wait to see you all in regoinals and hopefully states so watch out for us we'll be ready send us a message


    8. Message by: detroitriders2004 09/29/2003 20:02:27 GMT
      What ideas do you have for your Robot?


      1. Message by: Strong Minded Cards 22 10/02/2003 21:42:11 GMT
        We are making our robot so it can steer like a car.


    9. Message by: Strong Minded Cards 22 10/02/2003 21:35:19 GMT
      This is our first time in Robotics. Does anybody have any advice for us about what we should research?
      Thanks,
      Strong Minded Cards


      1. Message by: 10/06/2003 19:45:38 GMT
        Deleted


    10. Message by: 10/03/2003 14:37:27 GMT
      Deleted


    11. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/03/2003 14:38:07 GMT
      our robot has a few "special" features that I think will give us an edge in the competition. the claw moves up and down on a track so it can reach high. the propulsion system only uses one motor to go forward AND turn, so we can use the other motor for different things. if anyone has any other ideas, tell me!


    12. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/03/2003 14:38:48 GMT
      this is our first time too....so we don't really know either....if u get any advice tell me it at ihavenoidea90210@aol.com

      thanks


      1. Message by: Strong Minded Cards 22 10/14/2003 22:25:59 GMT
        how do you use one motor to move and turn?

        Thanks for the ideas from,
        The Strong Minded Cards (cardinals)


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/15/2003 03:14:25 GMT
          Some radio control cars (the real cheap ones) only use one
          motor for moving and turning. How do they work?

          -Skye


          1. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/23/2003 14:42:39 GMT
            use one motor by building the driving base that is in the back of the book. it only uses on motor and acctually incorperates the differential.


    13. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/03/2003 14:39:05 GMT


    14. Message by: 10/03/2003 14:39:47 GMT
      Deleted


      1. Message by: Strong Minded Cards 22 10/14/2003 22:28:52 GMT
        you have to choose one of the missions then ask a question about it and answer your question. you also need to show why your answer is what it is


    15. Message by: 10/03/2003 14:41:18 GMT
      Deleted


    16. Message by: 10/03/2003 14:42:08 GMT
      Deleted


    17. Message by: 10/03/2003 14:43:56 GMT
      Deleted


    18. Message by: 10/03/2003 14:45:09 GMT
      Deleted


    19. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/03/2003 14:58:23 GMT
      hi


    20. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:17:42 GMT
      I do not get the reaserch


    21. Message by: Marbots 10/16/2003 21:18:53 GMT
      I do not get the reaserch the reasearch is confusing! ???
      I get confused too easy!


      1. Message by: 10/17/2003 14:45:41 GMT
        Deleted


    22. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/17/2003 14:47:01 GMT
      I agree 100%, hehe.


    23. Message by: Mustangs On Mars 10/23/2003 21:49:19 GMT
      Clean Your rooms!!!! - MOM aka Mustangs On Mars. Fear Us!!!>:) post back any coments, we'd like to hear from you(NOT)


    24. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/24/2003 14:49:14 GMT
      You people... we won't clean aur rooms, we like them dirty!


    25. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/24/2003 14:51:31 GMT
      :)


    26. Message by: Mustangs On Mars 10/28/2003 21:53:57 GMT
      click here-ToxicLawnGnomes624 but were the rulers, first in command! FEAR US!!!!!! WE ARE M.O.M.s AND WE'RE PROUD!!!


    27. Message by: Mustangs On Mars 10/28/2003 21:54:45 GMT
      >:)


    28. Message by: flare1078 11/03/2003 23:00:05 GMT
      who wished eberybody luck on our team? friendlly


    29. Message by: lcorbiters3607 11/05/2003 03:49:45 GMT
      We are new too. We need help on moving the bolders into the launch circle. Could you help us? We can get down the Base, clear the solar pannel (hopefully), push the rover (sometimes), put together the friendship place, get over the canyon, and pick up the ball, but we do not understand the bolders. HELP!!!

      Thanks for taking your time to read our message,

      LC Orbiters


Discussion: Robot Obstacles By: detroitriders2004 10/20/2003 22:25:34 GMT
Where are you all getting your Obstacles for your playing field?

Please reply a.s.a.p

  1. Message by: Wildcats1099 10/01/2003 22:28:23 GMT
    Did you order the challenge kit? It includes the mat and all the Legos to build the obstacles. Now, that said, some teams have their challenge kits still on back order. Check your order and see if everything has been shipped. Good luck tracking it down.
    Monica


    1. Message by: ghettomars2233 10/03/2003 16:03:02 GMT
      where is the crater supposed to be located?


    2. Message by: ghettomars2233 10/03/2003 16:05:15 GMT
      Crater doesn't seem toline up on the lines


      1. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/20/2003 22:25:34 GMT
        it was the same for us so check the pieces you connect them to each other


    3. Message by: ghettomars2233 10/14/2003 15:59:32 GMT
      can we join the two 180 modules in the base?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/14/2003 16:26:42 GMT
        Yes.
        -Skye Sweeney


Discussion: Good question By: ghettomars2233 11/07/2003 15:26:30 GMT
Are we allowed to use our hands to put the Habitational modules on the robot?

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 10/10/2003 19:35:54 GMT
    While the robot is in the base you can modify the robot (except program) the robot as you please (rule 8). While the habitational modules is in the base you can do with it as you please (rule 8). So yes, you can use your hands to put the habitational modules on your robot as long as both are in the base.

    Dave
    Coach #4


    1. Message by: LegoKnights1248 10/12/2003 21:40:01 GMT
      I was wondering if we could bring the habitational module that is on the board back to base, attach the two at base and then send it back out onto the field? Does anyone know?


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/12/2003 22:08:34 GMT
        LegoKnights:

        The approach of bringing the 90° habitation module back to the base, attaching them in the base, and then sending the completed structure back out onto the field does NOT work this year, as the 90° habitation module is dual-locked to the table.

        For instructions on dual-locking the 90° habitation module to the table, see http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11380

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      2. Message by: ghettomars2233 10/14/2003 15:47:49 GMT
        we were asking the same question when you find out please help us.


      3. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/20/2003 21:33:50 GMT
        Yes, but just to be sure, check the rules anyways


    2. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/16/2003 14:33:37 GMT
      Can someone tell us if u are allowed to use a remote control or if u have to pre program it like are you allowed to use the remote like when you have to pick something up or something like that or do you just have to pre program so it picks up


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/16/2003 14:45:51 GMT
        NO you may not.

        PLEASE read the FAQ at http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

        Most of the questions your team is asking are answered there.
        Including the fact that a remote anywhere close to the
        competition tables is likely to be confiscated.

        -Skye Sweeney


      2. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/20/2003 21:36:25 GMT
        You only have to program the robot to pick things up.


      3. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/20/2003 21:44:41 GMT
        You only have to program the robot to pick things up.


    3. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/16/2003 14:40:23 GMT
      also, do you think we will get penalized for using some fishing line?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/16/2003 14:47:33 GMT
        No penalty, but you would have to remove the non-LEGO part
        before you would be allowed to compete. The rules are very
        clear on this. Only LEGO parts. Do remember that LEGO has
        official LEGO string.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/20/2003 21:28:44 GMT
        yes I think so but just to be sure check the rule book


    4. Message by: 10/17/2003 14:56:32 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/20/2003 21:31:49 GMT
      No you cannot use your hands because your robot can only pick things up


    6. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/20/2003 21:41:06 GMT
      Does anybody have their LEGO robot done already


    7. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/20/2003 21:54:16 GMT
      what do you think is the best type of wheels to have speed/power wise


    8. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/20/2003 22:00:01 GMT
      how do you get started on your research for your questions


    9. Message by: firephantoms1219 10/24/2003 03:37:05 GMT
      We are having a hard time thinking of a research question is any one will to offer any of their thoughts.


    10. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/24/2003 14:39:03 GMT
      Reply to the research- LEGO gives you a list of ideas that you can download from the website. You might want to try that. :)


    11. Message by: DominatorsII650 10/28/2003 03:35:57 GMT
      yes and no. only in the base can you touch stuff to go on the robot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    12. Message by: Eaglebots1127 10/29/2003 23:10:58 GMT
      Can someone help us w/ our research?
      We are doing the MAV Launcher and we don't know a good place to get information. Any ideas??


    13. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 11/07/2003 15:26:30 GMT
      What shall me and my fellow mates study for research?
      We need a bit of help. So any help will be jolly great!


Discussion: Mission mars By: ghettomars2233 10/17/2003 15:56:09 GMT
Are we allowed to use our hands to put the Habitational modules on the robot?

  1. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/17/2003 14:46:27 GMT
    no you're not


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/17/2003 15:56:09 GMT
      When the robot is in the base, you may load items into it
      by hand. These items can include field models (like the
      ball or habitation modules) that you 'own'. By 'own' in
      mean have in the base.

      -Skye


Discussion: We need an answer By: ghettomars2233 11/12/2003 16:11:42 GMT
How many sensors are we allowed to have, what kind of sensors are we allowed to have?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/14/2003 16:28:47 GMT
    You really need to spend the time to read the FAQ and the
    rules. Most of your questions will be answered.
    FAQ: http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq
    Rules: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11250

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/16/2003 14:32:02 GMT
      ok bye


    2. Message by: dollarbay1209 10/20/2003 22:49:28 GMT
      What kind of fund raisers are you other groups having?


    3. Message by: 10/21/2003 21:53:27 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: DominatorsII650 10/28/2003 03:29:31 GMT
      you are allowed to have as many sensors as you want!!!!!
      are you first time in this? if so I can tell!!!!!!!!!!


    5. Message by: Wildcats1099 10/28/2003 23:54:50 GMT
      Actually, you are not allowed to have as many sensors as you want. Please look at rule 5 again. "...Electrical parts are limited to 1 RCX, 1 Rotation Sensor, 2 Touch Sensors, 2 Light Sensors, 3 Motors, 1 Lamp, 6 AA batteries, and 8 Wires. No other electrical parts are allowed. "
      Monica


    6. Message by: nasajrs3540 10/29/2003 00:01:45 GMT
      well we are having bake sales.
      do you guys have any hints for treads?


      1. Message by: 11/03/2003 23:27:01 GMT
        Deleted


    7. Message by: nasajrs3540 10/29/2003 00:02:28 GMT
      we are having truble so it would be very helpful.


      1. Message by: The Robotic Wildcats 11/03/2003 23:24:02 GMT
        Peak-a-boo
        we found you.

        ~The Robotic Wildcats~
        ~Walton Charter Academy~

        Brittany& Kaitlin


      2. Message by: The Robotic Wildcats 11/03/2003 23:34:13 GMT
        We know who you are Jeniffer, kyle& Chaz.
        Come see us we are in Mrs. Boersma's Office.
        Bye~Bye


    8. Message by: NASA 2034 10/29/2003 00:46:41 GMT
      We need help making a arm to get the ice cores


      1. Message by: flare1078 10/29/2003 01:24:31 GMT
        our team we are just going for two but my idea was to have a long arm that falls down when the program starts so it's not out of the base then u drive forward and this arm is tilted up a bit and it has a a another rod jutting out at about a right angle facing right then the robot drives to the edge of the crater and the arm goes through the two ice cores then the robot turns letting the arm jutting of the end catch that one and since it's tilted they slide down and u just back up into base i hope it works we haven't tested it rock on FLARE


    9. Message by: TheMarsketeers2035 10/29/2003 03:58:39 GMT
      I'm pritty sure that you can have as many as you want ,but only 3 moters!!!


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/29/2003 05:24:53 GMT
        Actually you are limited to what sensors you may use.
        The list is in the rules.

        -Skye


    10. Message by: Martian Bulldogs 201 11/05/2003 01:28:53 GMT
      You are allowed to have as many sensors on the robot as you can fit on it.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/05/2003 01:36:16 GMT
        NO, NO, NO!

        That is not correct. You can only have two touch sensors,
        two light sensors, and one rotation sensor.

        I would love to be able to have two rotation sensors, or
        even 5 touch sensors, but you may NOT!

        -Skye


    11. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 11/12/2003 15:46:15 GMT
      for the research presentation, can we pre-record a skit and just show it at the tournement?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/12/2003 16:11:42 GMT
        Yes you can, but it might not be scored as well as a live
        show. In this day and age, people (and judges are people
        to) come to expect near perfection from a tv show. So it
        might not be as well received as the same skit done live.

        This is not to say that pre-recorded video does not have its
        uses. Ever see a magician to a magic trick with himself?
        The magician is live but interacts with a recorded version
        of himself. Makes for a very bizzare but interesting trick.

        -Skye


Discussion: Question page By: ToxicLawnGnomes624 11/27/2003 04:02:04 GMT
I was wondering if its the mission is timed or not

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/16/2003 14:48:22 GMT
    Please read the rules. Yes it is. You only have 2.5 minutes
    to do as much as possible.

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/17/2003 14:39:55 GMT
      Oh aiight its all good


    2. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/17/2003 14:41:15 GMT
      hi prithvi


    3. Message by: 10/17/2003 14:41:59 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: DominatorsII650 10/28/2003 03:32:02 GMT
      yes!!! geez!!! read the rules!!!!!!!!!!


    5. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 11/06/2003 15:37:25 GMT
      Excuse me good sirs, But we need a bit of help with our research. If any of you could help us with it. It would be jolly grand. We need to know what to do for research. Any help would be Grand!!!!


      1. Message by: 11/14/2003 20:30:28 GMT
        Deleted


    6. Message by: 11/14/2003 20:34:56 GMT
      Deleted


    7. Message by: ghettomars2233 11/26/2003 20:12:34 GMT
      how many teams are going to the state tournament.


    8. Message by: ghettomars2233 11/26/2003 20:14:41 GMT
      how many people did the alliance habitation module.


    9. Message by: ghettomars2233 11/26/2003 20:17:14 GMT
      what if we do the alliance habitation module on our own without the other team's robot.


    10. Message by: ghettomars2233 11/26/2003 20:20:41 GMT
      how many points do we get for doing the alliance habitation module alone without the other team.


      1. Message by: ghettomars2233 11/26/2003 20:41:35 GMT
        Can you use rubber bands on the robot?


    11. Message by: ghettomars2233 11/26/2003 20:32:46 GMT
      Can you leave any robotic parts or fixtures on field and if we do will we get points taken away?


    12. Message by: ghettomars2233 11/26/2003 20:59:49 GMT
      Do you we get points if we do the alliance habitation module and the opposing team does not?


      1. Message by: harris-194 11/27/2003 04:02:04 GMT
        The score is computed at the end of the match. If the Alliance Habitation Module has been connected then both teams get 43 points. Doesn't matter if it took only one team to complete the task.

        Courtney
        Harris-194


    13. Message by: ghettomars2233 11/26/2003 21:20:28 GMT
      On our research project, do we need to facts per slide?


Discussion: Alliance Habitation Module By: Mustangs On Mars 11/14/2003 20:34:16 GMT
What are your ideas on completing the alliance Habitation Module?

  1. Message by: emsjets 10/22/2003 01:32:21 GMT
    Ideas for connecting the alliance habitation modules:
    #1.Push your side of the module into position and place a tire, not a block for that would slip, on the wheel below to prevent it from coming back down.
    #2.Create a claw that will combine both modules from either side of the competition board.
    I'm clueless otherwise. PLEASE SUBMIT MORE IDEAS! Thank You.

    Tutor from the Edmonson Jets
    Submitted at 7:30 P.M. EST 10-21-03


    1. Message by: Mustangs On Mars 10/23/2003 21:34:33 GMT
      Thank you. Did you think colaberating another team.


      1. Message by: emsjets 10/31/2003 17:37:57 GMT
        1.The ideas came from both me and from what I saw on the forum.
        2.Sorry, the team I help is not going to Flint.
        3.I come from around Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti.

        Sorry if I kept you waiting for an answer, I haven't been to the forum for a week.

        Tutor from the ems jets.


    2. Message by: Mustangs On Mars 10/23/2003 21:37:05 GMT
      Are you going to the tournament in Flint MI?


    3. Message by: Mustangs On Mars 10/23/2003 21:41:14 GMT
      Where are you from city wise? Sorry if the messages are bugging you:)


      1. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 10/24/2003 14:28:44 GMT
        Ann Arbor


    4. Message by: detroitriders2004 11/14/2003 20:34:16 GMT
      no, are you


Discussion: hello By: Survivors2713 11/20/2003 04:19:59 GMT


  1. Message by: Mustangs On Mars 10/23/2003 21:42:55 GMT
    Hi - from the Mustangs On Mars. Fear us!!!


    1. Message by: Robosharks406 11/18/2003 23:02:01 GMT
      nnnnooooo fear the robosharkkkkkkssss!!!!! we ownerizeish stuff


    2. Message by: flare1078 11/20/2003 04:19:59 GMT
      u guys should all cower before our team you'll see why if you watch flare running the robot so good luck to all


Discussion: Mission mars By: ghettomars2233 10/27/2003 22:51:44 GMT
Can you load the canister under the robot?

What happens if your robot is not in the crater at the end of the match?

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/27/2003 22:49:43 GMT
    Sorry but we dont know but feel free to ask us about anything else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/27/2003 22:51:44 GMT
      Nothing. You just do not get the extra points if you are
      in the crater at the end.

      -Skye


Discussion: Canister By: ghettomars2233 10/29/2003 01:39:17 GMT
Does anyone know if we can load the canister under the robot?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/28/2003 17:20:14 GMT
    This question has me confused. I think you will have to
    describe what you are trying to do in a little more detail.
    On the surface I would saw that the canister (ball) could
    be on, in, above, bellow, to the side, or in any other
    spacial relationship to the rest of the robot. Perhaps the
    issue is that so many teams have asked if they can load the
    ball ON the robot before the round starts?

    -Skye


    1. Message by: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 10/29/2003 01:39:17 GMT
      i'm guessing that since you can load the canister onto the robot that technichally means any part of the robot.
      i'd say yea.


Discussion: How are things going? By: detroitriders2004 10/28/2003 21:08:48 GMT


Discussion: How are things going? By: detroitriders2004 11/20/2003 04:17:26 GMT


  1. Message by: ghettomars2233 10/29/2003 16:37:23 GMT
    great thanks!!!!!!11


    1. Message by: ghettomars2233 10/29/2003 16:37:35 GMT
      great thanks!!!!!!


    2. Message by: flare1078 11/20/2003 04:17:26 GMT
      good we'll be ready for all of u at states say hi to us there and good luck to all


Discussion: How are things going? By: detroitriders2004 10/28/2003 21:11:22 GMT
We just wanted to konw how things are going? Are you almost finish with the robot? Are your teams guys getting together? Answer A.S.A.P

Our team just wanted to convey and see how everyone felt about the projects. We are getting great responses from our team, but things can get extremly shaky.We just wanted to know are you guys going through the same obsticles we are? Thanks again!

Discussion: we need help on treads!! By: nasajrs3540 11/07/2003 23:01:02 GMT
ok we are having a hard time on treads.
do you guys have any helpful hints?
please help us.

  1. Message by: nasajrs3540 10/29/2003 00:04:44 GMT
    we are walton charter acadmy.


    1. Message by: nasajrs3540 10/29/2003 00:10:22 GMT
      please post!! :(


    2. Message by: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 10/29/2003 01:45:58 GMT
      hey, if you look in the constructopedia and the very first robot has some nice treads. Using that idea we modified the treads a little bit to fit our robot and BOOM! you have treads.


    3. Message by: nasajrs3540 10/30/2003 22:33:34 GMT
      well we looked at that and it was too wide.
      Do you have any other sugestions?


    4. Message by: Mustangs On Mars 10/30/2003 22:46:47 GMT
      what kind of problems are you having?


    5. Message by: nasajrs3540 10/30/2003 22:48:45 GMT
      um.... well we cant get the treds to be under the rover.


      1. Message by: FJHRaiders2141 11/05/2003 03:08:46 GMT
        Don't use treads Wheels are better. Wheels move faster and they can turn on a dime. They are easier to put on and take off.


    6. Message by: 10/31/2003 17:43:46 GMT
      Deleted


    7. Message by: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 11/04/2003 01:41:38 GMT
      we used those treads but we took out the pegs on the outside. then we connected the two side bars with 6 stud flat pieces. you have to make sure the pieces don't hit the treads though. then it fits just fine. Use the force. good luck.


    8. Message by: FJHRaiders2141 11/05/2003 03:15:13 GMT
      wheels are better than treads !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    9. Message by: NASA 2034 11/07/2003 01:19:39 GMT
      Treads are immpossible Give up


    10. Message by: Legonauts4 11/07/2003 23:01:02 GMT
      Never give up completely. Some people do very well with treads. You have to experiment to find the best configuration for your tasks. Some tasks work well with tank treads and other tasks work well for wheels. We have one team with treads and one team with wheels. The tread design goes over the crater like it is not there, there is no disturbance to the robot as it passes over the crater. The wheeled vehicle goes over the crater but with more of a disturbance that looses it's direction after going over. So it all depends on what you are trying to achieve.

      Dave Kolberg
      Coach #4 #2605


Discussion: we need help on treads!! By: nasajrs3540 11/10/2003 15:56:32 GMT
ok we are having a hard time on treads.
do you guys have any helpful hints?
please help us.

  1. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 11/10/2003 15:56:32 GMT
    treads can be good. we almost used a strange running base that uses the differential. because it uses that, it only needs one motor, which leaves 2 more to use for other things.
    ---------------------------DaToxicLawnGnomes


Discussion: Habitation modules By: ghettomars2233 11/15/2003 23:49:46 GMT
Can we have the 90 degree Habitational modules connected before the tournament?

  1. Message by: nasajrs3540 10/30/2003 22:36:13 GMT
    no.
    you have to have the 90degree one atached to the grond and the other to are far away from it so you have to ether pick it up with an arm or push it.
    me personly i wouldn't do that mission.
    :)


    1. Message by: detroitriders2004 11/13/2003 20:44:18 GMT
      In mission d, connecting the habitation modules. There are two modules in base. Will we be able to position the two habitation modules in our base?


      1. Message by: Wildcats1099 11/14/2003 11:54:51 GMT
        Yes, you can position the modules anywhere you want in base.
        Monica


      2. Message by: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 11/15/2003 23:49:46 GMT
        Yes, you can at least I think you can.
        good luck


    2. Message by: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 11/15/2003 23:48:12 GMT
      My team did it so I am pretty sure you are allowed to. good luck!


Discussion: lego habs By: Little Green Men and Women 1019 11/10/2003 15:51:32 GMT
what are you guys making your hab out of? which team are you on? if you are on little green men and women, tell me cause it's megan that is on!!!

  1. Message by: Martian Bulldogs 201 11/05/2003 01:10:41 GMT
    My name is Carlton Reininger from Tehachapi, California. I'm on the Martian Bulldogs. We have a horrible program manager. He won't let anybody speek. The programer has a laptop that he says that he is letting the team use but he is the only one that does any programing. Talk to you again, Carlton


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/05/2003 22:06:22 GMT
      legoes, blaine bat heads.


    2. Message by: ToxicLawnGnomes624 11/10/2003 15:51:32 GMT
      Jeff G. , Pat R., Sharvil S., and Sue N. from Ann Arbor michigan. we made the thing out of legos.
      -DaToxicLawnGnomes


Discussion: Milford LGMW By: Little Green Men and Women 1019 11/04/2003 02:47:59 GMT
anybody from milford out there? if not, anybody wanna talk??

Discussion: Milford LGMW By: Little Green Men and Women 1019 11/04/2003 22:04:37 GMT
anybody from milford out there? if not, anybody wanna talk??

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/04/2003 22:04:37 GMT
    no we are not from there.


Discussion: MAV launcher By: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 11/04/2003 22:38:43 GMT
If you put the ball into the MAV launcher and it springs off nicking the ball but doesn't launch it do you get the no-load test score or the full score?

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/04/2003 22:37:31 GMT
    I don't no i haven't been in the compatition yet i herd it is hard ?


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/04/2003 22:38:43 GMT
      Were is your school at what state.


Discussion: MAV launcher By: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 11/04/2003 22:56:40 GMT
If you load the ball into the MAV launcher and the arm goes off a wee bit too early and just nicks th bal but doesn't launch it do you get the full score for that?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/04/2003 22:56:40 GMT
    If it was obvious that the robot hit it too early, you
    would only get partial credit. If through NO fault of
    yours, the catapult misfired, a ref should give you full
    points.



    For all these type of questions (I am not picking on the
    Mars Monkeys!)

    1) Do not rely on a referee that is an expert in the rules.
    Most of the time, the referees will only have been trained
    the week before. They will not know all the tiny details.

    2) Your best best is to run a very clean round. Do not push
    the rules. If you can keep it simple, you stand a better
    chance of not being involved in a post round discussion.

    3) Arguing with a ref after a round is not likely to go in your favor.

    4) Do not argue referee calls. "Gracious Profesionalism" is
    an absolute must. If an issue does come up, make sure it is
    a team member that approaches the referee first and not
    a coach.

    5) Have a team member stay at the tables and watch the
    scoring to verify the score. Mistakes do happen. Now is
    your one and only change to catch the problem.

    6) If you have some weird rule you are going to push, AND
    you have an email from Scott Evans, give a copy to the head
    ref BEFORE (I repeat BEFORE) the competition.



    -Skye


Discussion: rover problems By: easteagles3252 11/18/2003 22:38:56 GMT


  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/18/2003 22:38:56 GMT
    WHAT ROVER PROBLEMS?!


Discussion: rover problems By: easteagles3252 11/18/2003 21:54:54 GMT
Our land rover comes apart sometimes when we move it. We are concerned that if we move it and it falls apart that would be considered damaged and lose points?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/17/2003 23:02:54 GMT
    If you are talking about all the little dodads on the top,
    these are known to be frail and you will not be penalized.
    If you are talking about ripping the little rover limb from
    limb, you might very well be penalized!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/18/2003 21:54:54 GMT
      Dont worry.All you have to do is move it,so it wont fall.


Discussion: states By: flare1078 11/24/2003 22:43:54 GMT
who all is going to states see ya there.

  1. Message by: DominatorsII650 11/23/2003 23:59:56 GMT
    We are, the DominatorsII!!! What was your maximum score? We came in 1st for most points in a round...


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/24/2003 22:43:54 GMT
      SORRY GOOD LUCK! WE WONT SEE BECAUSE WE ONLY ONLY GO TO CHICAGO TORNAMENTS.


Discussion: Is anyone else doing the Alliance Habitation Module at state? By: ET2491 12/02/2003 17:47:17 GMT
At the local competition I noticed that almost no one else propped up the Alliance Habitation Module. Is anyone else doing it?

  1. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 11/24/2003 20:47:15 GMT
    We plan to. At the local tournament we wedge our side of the module but never was the other side attempted. We do it 2nd misson of the run so that there is plenty of time for it to be connected.


    1. Message by: Robonauts 11/25/2003 02:34:52 GMT
      I went to the warm-up tournament in Linden and no one did it there either. A nursery survey of other tournaments this weekend found that it was rarely performed. Therefore, it is probably not an efficient use of time.

      Our team did not work on it because we do not have enough time to complete all of the other missions on the table anyway so it does not make much sense. However, I know of one team that can raise both halves all by themselves but I do not know if they attempted it at their regional (Etch Town Tourney). That team will be at the state tournament.


    2. Message by: dragondevils119 11/25/2003 04:54:31 GMT
      Our team is able to do both sides by ourselves. At the Fraser tournament our second round team was able to complete it. On our third round we were actually pulling the other side up when the other team pushed it up, completing the hookup. Another team there, don't know who, did it also. Another match I watched, both teams teamed up to do it also. Good luck everyone, see you at the state tourney.


    3. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/02/2003 17:47:17 GMT
      We're going to try.


Discussion: Is anyone else doing the Alliance Habitation Module at state? By: ET2491 11/23/2003 20:43:41 GMT
At the local competition I noticed that almost no one else propped up the Alliance Habitation Module. Is anyone else doing it?

Discussion: Good Luck!!!! By: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:35:49 GMT
Good Luck at the state tournament

From,
Katie

  1. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 02:56:15 GMT
    Hello team #401!!! I wish you good luck at the State tournament.

    From,
    Sean, Afficial member of team #1019


    1. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 02:57:57 GMT
      Hello team #650!!! I wish you good luck at the state tournament.

      From,
      Sean, member of team #1019


    2. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 02:58:57 GMT
      Good luck all teams going to the state tournament!!!!

      From,
      team #1019, The Little Green Men and Women


    3. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:00:22 GMT
      Good luck team #650 at the state tournament. We wish you luck!!!!

      From,
      Team number 1019, Little Green Men and Women


    4. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:02:11 GMT
      Good Luck at the State Tournament

      From John


    5. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:02:15 GMT
      Good luck team number 2034 at the state tournament!!! We hope you have a good time!!

      From,
      Sean, member of Little Green Men and Women #1019


    6. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:03:35 GMT
      Good luck team number 2026 at the state tournaments!!! I hope you have a good time, too!

      From,
      Sean, member of the Little Green Men and Women #1019


    7. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:09:08 GMT
      good luck all you teams going to the state tournament!!! I hope you all have a good time, too.

      From,
      Sean, member of the little green men and women, #1019


    8. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:11:08 GMT
      have very decent luck. seeyaa later.

      from,
      Paul


    9. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:35:49 GMT
      GOOD LUCK!
      From Buzz Lightyear and his friends
      THE LITTLE GREEN MEN + WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Christian


Discussion: Good Luck! By: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:07:25 GMT
Good Luck to team 498, The red Planet Rovers! Have fun and do your best!

From Little Green Men And Women 1019

Discussion: Milford LGMW By: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:21:05 GMT
good luck team 480 martian maniacs

from team 1019

  1. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/04/2003 03:21:05 GMT
    Good luck all you teams

    team 1019


Discussion: 2004 Mission Theme????? By: Alpha1611 01/09/2004 18:30:10 GMT
In 2002, at State the told us that the 2003 theme was "Mission Mars". I was expecting to hear the 2004 theme at this years State event, but it wasn't mentioned. Any word on the 2004 Theme?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/07/2004 23:56:28 GMT
    What do sunglasses, equal access and opportunities,
    designing technologies, and FLL teams have in common?

    Hold onto your LEGO pieces and put on your shades.
    Experience things many of us take for granted in a whole
    different light.


    1. Message by: alphabots4000 01/08/2004 02:15:10 GMT
      Is that some sort of a coded theme for next year or just a way to say, "I can't tell you yet!"


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/08/2004 04:28:23 GMT
        Sorry for the confusion.

        That is the teaser straight from FIRST for next year.
        Looks like something to do with disabilities perhaps?
        "Equal access" could mean wheel chairs, sign language,
        or other services to give equal access to all people.
        Of course it could mean something totally different.
        That is why they are called teasers!

        -Skye


    2. Message by: Alpha1611 01/09/2004 18:18:17 GMT
      Skye,
      You said you got that from FIRST. I didn't see it on the Website. Where from First did you get it?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/09/2004 18:30:10 GMT
        Opps. This information was provided to state tournament
        directors to be used as a teaser during the closing
        ceremonies. Not all tournaments may have presented the
        teaser. I think I may have jumped the gun in posting
        as not all tournaments have occured! My guess is that
        as the last tournaments play out in January, that FIRST
        will post at the main website.

        -Skye


Discussion: Lego Demonstration and Q&A session By: dragondevils119 02/18/2004 19:49:24 GMT
The Dragon Devils Robotics Team will be hosting a Lego Demonstration with a questions and answer session. This was our 4th and final year and we want to share with the up and coming teams what we've learned since we started. The date is Feb. 17th at 7PM at the Clawson United Methodist Church. The address is 205 N. Main. It's located in Clawson just north of 14 Mile on the west side of Main (Livernois). Bring your robots and/or presentations. We will show you our presentation.
Please email to let us know if you're coming.

Thanks,
Joe Hopkins wjhopkins@wowway.com
coach team 119

You can visit our website too.
www.dragondevils.com

  1. Message by: dragondevils119 02/18/2004 19:49:24 GMT
    We had a very large turn out at the Lego Demonstration last night. I hope we answered everyone's questions. If we missed yours, you can submit one to our web site and one of the team members will get back to you.

    Thanks,
    Joe Hopkins coach of the Dragon Devils

    www.dragondevils.com
    wjhopkins@wowway.com



Folder: Minnesota 11/25/2003 22:17:23 GMT


Discussion: the frist By: RMA 09/20/2003 03:51:17 GMT


Discussion: the frst challemge By: RMA 09/20/2003 03:53:06 GMT


Discussion: the frst challemge By: RMA 09/20/2003 03:54:55 GMT


Discussion: hello By: visionaries 11/25/2003 22:17:23 GMT


  1. Message by: comets588 10/04/2003 15:58:52 GMT
    Hi. Our team, Saint Ambrose Comets, is only in our second year, and we can use all the tips we can obtain. We did not have a very good year in 2002, but in the mean time, our team has developed into a much better team. We have acquired many tricks, tips, and skills by discussing elements of Lego Robotics with other teams, and by observing other team's approaches to the obstacles in the competition. Although we are confident that we can have a better team, we would appreciate your help very much. However, we are willing to give away any trick, tips, and skills you would like.

    Hoping to converse,
    Saint Ambrose Comets


    1. Message by: Maorp? The Bloated Fish 10/06/2003 01:31:56 GMT
      Our team is a middle school team at St. Paul Academy, with the name of Maorp? The Bloated Fish. Some of the team members participated in 2002, but we also have much room for improvement.

      I am interested in thoughts about how to approach the Alliance Mission. It seems there are 3 possibilities: (1) attempt to close both sides; (2) attempt to close 1 side in the hope that the team on the other table will attempt either (1) or (2); or (3) ignore that mission. As I understand it, the purpose of that mission is to have the teams cooperate, so it appears that option 2 would be preferred. Does anyone have a sense as to how this one should/will be approached?

      Regards

      Maorp? TBF


    2. Message by: Marsorbust2765 10/09/2003 23:37:55 GMT
      Hey, St. Ambrose Comets, are you based out of St. Ambrose of Woodbury? I did not see your team at the Crosswinds regional tournament last year. I am a member of a team for Math and Science Academy in Woodbury, I have been in the program since the Volcanic Panic 2000 challenge and i'm hoping our team can do even better than last year (4th place in state).


    3. Message by: comets588 10/18/2003 15:33:21 GMT
      No, we are from Pa, but we weren't getting any responses on the PA board, so we decided to psot here. We did not do so well at the compitition, finishing 22nd in out area. However we then went to a camp with similar oppenents and dominated. As you can tell, we've improved very much.


    4. Message by: comets588 10/18/2003 15:36:46 GMT
      Hi Maorp. Our team has a fairly simple approach to the Alliance Mission. Since it will not stand up unless both are up at the same time, we've decided just to place an object we make in front of the wheels. This is easy, but the object must be heavy enough to keep it up.

      -Comets588


      1. Message by: Maorp? The Bloated Fish 10/26/2003 05:36:35 GMT
        Thanks for the response. That sounds like a very workable solution. Most importantly, it will allow both teams to score if the other team has a similar (and successful) approach. We are still pondering this one. Good luck!

        Maorp? TBF


    5. Message by: comets588 10/30/2003 02:51:32 GMT
      Thanks Maorp, Good Luck to you too.


    6. Message by: toxic1673 11/12/2003 03:35:32 GMT
      our team is really good too!
      we are from Chippewa middle school
      we are really on top of things
      good luck to everyone else


    7. Message by: comets588 11/25/2003 22:17:23 GMT
      How many points do you get on an average run?



Folder: Missouri 11/24/2003 23:28:13 GMT


Discussion: Welcome to FLL By: mechanics2241 10/22/2003 22:26:52 GMT
From the Green Park Mechanics in Saint Louis

We would like to welcome all new and returning Missouri teams and look forward to meeting you at the Saint Louis Science Center for the Missouri Competition.

Mark Strahm
Coach Green Park Mechanics

  1. Message by: LegoMyEggo1093 10/13/2003 18:26:51 GMT
    From The LegoMyEggo Team in north city St. Louis

    We would like to hear from you about your first year. What could you shair with our team to make our first year a good expereance.


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/13/2003 22:37:37 GMT
      Read the handbook at
      http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net

      -Skye


    2. Message by: mechanics2241 10/15/2003 00:09:32 GMT
      Lets see...

      1: Do not rebuild your robot the week before the competition.

      2: Use your sensors to help your robot keep track of its location.

      3. Once you get your robot completed resist the temptation to tamper with your design. Work on your programming to get the most out of your two minutes and thirty seconds.

      4. HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Mark Strahm
      Coach Green Park Mechanics

      Hey if you would like to get our teams together some weekend let me know we can probably use our school gym to give us both some advance practice prior to the competition.

      mdstrahm@aol.com


      1. Message by: LegoMyEggo1093 10/22/2003 22:26:52 GMT
        Thank you for the help. We would like to meet your team. we meet tomarro and will talk about this. our time is short and we have a full plate, but I think this would help us out. I'm not so sure how much we can offer you, this being our first year and all.


Discussion: The First Lego League By: Walnut Grove Marsketeers 3551 11/24/2003 22:33:55 GMT
How do you like the lego league.

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/24/2003 22:33:55 GMT
    WE HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE.


Discussion: Would like to talk to a team that went to the state tournament By: Tekno Devils40 11/24/2003 23:28:13 GMT
I would like to exchange emails with a coach that went to the
state tournament in St. Louis on November 22/23. Please
write to fll-freak@comcast.net

-Skye


Folder: Nevada 10/03/2003 00:50:43 GMT
Are there any teams in Nevada?


Folder: New Hampshire 02/03/2004 17:17:40 GMT



Folder: Nashua Area Folder 01/20/2004 17:14:58 GMT
Please use this folder for nashua are conversations.


Folder: New Tournament 01/20/2004 17:14:58 GMT
It has come to my attention that some NH teams have not gotten much of an oppurtunity to compete this year, so I would invite you down for the season-ending tournament at Quinsigamond Community College in Worcester, Massachusetts. It would be a short drive for you and it will be a large tournament. If you are interested, contact Betty at blauer@qcc.mass.edu

Discussion: Local tournaments to seed for state By: Tekno Devils40 12/04/2003 05:10:26 GMT
We need to think about how we are going to run several local competitions. This year the
NH state will not be a lottery, but rahter you must advance to it. We have toooooo many
teams to run just one local tourney. I would love to discuss with other coaches what we are
planning on doing.

-Skye Sweeney
fll-freak@comcast.net

  1. Message by: pennichuck864 09/24/2003 21:30:25 GMT
    I'd like to hear what the plans are, so lets discuss!

    Paul


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/24/2003 21:41:15 GMT
      Tonight I am going to a meeting at BAE to discuss the state
      and local tournaments. I will have a better idea what will
      happen by Friday. Plase stay tuned.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/25/2003 14:19:01 GMT
      Last night a group of people meet to discuss the local
      tournaments for NH. At this point 9 locals have been
      determined. BAE is working closely with these local
      tournament directors to insure common scoring. Come
      October 6 (to the 17), registration will be open at
      the WWW.firstlegoleague.org site. When you ask for NH,
      it will divert you to a BAE site. At that site you will
      be able to sign up for a local tournament. The dates
      for these will be Nov 15, Nov 22, and Dec 6.

      Teams should expect an email from FIRST and or BAE with
      more information. But come October 6, visit the FLL web
      page!

      -Skye Sweeney


    3. Message by: NewGirlsOnTheBlocks 09/30/2003 17:13:53 GMT
      Hello everyone out there in Lego world. I am a cocaption of a team in Plymouth, NH. This is our very first team and we were wondering if anyone would be available to talk with us regarding the competition, how it runs, etc. We have read what has been provided on the website as well as the manuals but we are still a bit unclear. Is there anyone out there that would be willing to communicate through email or via the phone?

      Thanks,
      Wendy


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/30/2003 18:47:29 GMT
        Sure. You can email me at fll-freak@comcast.net

        But... you might first want to read the handbook at:
        http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net

        This will tell you alot about what to expect.

        -Skye


    4. Message by: 10/01/2003 23:19:06 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: TeamTiger298 10/06/2003 22:38:40 GMT
      Hi all,

      The only tournament listed so far as I can tell is the state tournament which can accomodate 48 teams. The local tournaments to come would need to eliminate only 4 of the 52 NH teams? I like the idea of local competitions to improve the performance at the State Tournament, but it almost seems like we could squeeze all 52 into the state tournament. Last year's state tourmament was a spectacular production. Are there more teams than those listed? Also does anyone know when the local Nashua area tournament registration website will be up?

      Thanks,

      Jim (TeamTiger298)


    6. Message by: NewGirlsOnTheBlocks 10/07/2003 20:45:25 GMT
      Ok, because I'm not I'm not sure how all of this works. I saw somewhere that the tournaments in NH (local) would be Nov 15, 22 and Dec 6th. Our team is considering registering for two of those. How do I find this informaiton? Is it on this website somewhere?

      From what I'm gathering, you have to prequalify for the state tournament, is this correct?
      Thanks
      Wendy (newgirlsontheblocks)


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/08/2003 03:41:58 GMT
        It should have been on the web on Monday. Something has
        caused a delay. Check back each day. You should be able
        to follow the links from the main page to registration
        for tourneys.

        Yes you have to qualify at a local to get to state.

        -Skye


    7. Message by: Crator_Creatures_609 10/08/2003 14:30:31 GMT
      10/8/03: Checking to see when the local qualifying tournaments will be open.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/08/2003 15:15:21 GMT
        Any day now. Was to have been Monday, but it got delayed!

        -Skye


      2. Message by: NewGirlsOnTheBlocks 10/11/2003 20:22:47 GMT
        hello, how are things going with your team? Do you have as many missing pieces as us? lol! How many people are on your team? Boys, girls, or both? we have all girls. for most of the people on our team have done this before what about you? Hows your reseach and building going? We have many missing pieces. we ha plenty of fun organizing the pieces we had too. lol!
        well, I hope to hear from your team. Hope to keep in touch becasue it would be fun to discuss things. Anyways, talk to you later. Hope your having fun. Peace Out- bubyes!!! : )


    8. Message by: cougars1948 10/14/2003 21:24:35 GMT
      I can't seem to get onto the link at bae systems to sign up for one of the local tournaments. I've been trying for three days. Is anyone else having any success?

      TIA,
      Sara


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/15/2003 01:34:16 GMT
        NH State Tournament Registration

        Sara, try the above link to see if it works for you. It has been working just fine for me, including just moments ago.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/15/2003 03:02:42 GMT
        For me the site only worked under IE.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/15/2003 03:21:06 GMT
          Also works for me under Mozilla 1.3.1. I don't know if other browsers may have trouble with the NH State Registration Page.


    9. Message by: cougars1948 10/15/2003 13:22:27 GMT
      I'm in Internet Explorer and I still can't access the page. I tried Ken's link and still got the standard "This page cannot be displayed", which usually happens when a website is down. However, since all others seem to be able to access the site, it might be my school's security system??? Is there some way to contact someone to register via email or with a phone call? I really want to get registered for the meet at Central High School - any ideas?

      Sara


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/15/2003 15:08:55 GMT
        Sara,

        Call or email one of the following individuals. Linda is the Tournament Director, but she is out of the office until 20 October. Alison is in charge of the registrations.


        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


        1. Message by: cougars1948 10/16/2003 13:19:47 GMT
          Thanks very much, Ken. Our school's filter system must have blocked me from the site, because I could get onto it from home and my husband registered OK from work.
          THanks for your help!
          Sara


    10. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/12/2003 23:00:08 GMT
      How can I contact a tournament director of a Nashua area tournament?

      I went to the FLL web page, clicked on tournaments, and eventually drilled down to a list of NH tournaments. Clicking on the Hollis tournament, for example, brings up a page with two links. One is for registration, and the other for "more information". However, both these links are the same and go to the top level FLL tournaments page at BAE systems. From there I drilled down again to the Hollis/Brookline tournament. You can get some basic info about the tournament like the date, number of teams, etc, but there is no name, phone number, or email address I could find.

      What's the secret method?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/12/2003 23:05:48 GMT
        The secret is that this is the first year and things are
        not fully functional! BAE pushed hard on the local FIRST
        teams (not FLL) to have them sponsor local tournaments.
        They responded, but are still trying to figure out what
        they signed up to do!

        The real secret is to send an email to:
        Alison.mcfarland@baesystems.com

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/13/2003 01:06:01 GMT
          The real secret is to send an email to: Alison.mcfarland@baesystems.com

          Thanks. I've sent her a message.


    11. Message by: pennichuck864 12/02/2003 18:25:41 GMT
      Any results posted yet?

      I see from the tournament schedule that two meets have been completed (Merrimack and BG). Have results been posted yet? It would be interesting to see what the scores are for the winning teams.

      - Paul


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/02/2003 18:28:16 GMT
        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?230@@.ee96aba

        No info on BG.

        -Skye


    12. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/04/2003 05:10:26 GMT
      Are the results from the Bishop Guertin tournament
      available anywhere?

      -Skye


Discussion: web sites By: wlcrobowarriors1393 09/26/2003 22:43:13 GMT
dear teams,
we have started our own web site to show what we have accomplished. If you log on to www.freewebs.com you to can creat a website.
sincerly,
Robo Warriors

Discussion: contacting for real... By: NewGirlsOnTheBlocks 10/13/2003 01:05:01 GMT
To me this isnt really contacting others. And i dont think we are really accomplishing any convorsations, so for any new hampshire teams that would like to chat or something with like Aol. So, who ever contacts back from this we can share Aol or yahoo sn's so we can really talk back and forth ok
peace out
bubyes

  1. Message by: 10/13/2003 01:05:01 GMT
    Deleted


Discussion: Desperate Plea for Spielberg kit By: Tekno Devils40 11/01/2003 00:11:32 GMT
For those in the vicinity of Nashua New Hampshire....

I am looking to borrow some of the parts from the
Speilburg LEGO kit. Specifically I would like to borrow
the Director minifig and some of his accessories. Can't
tell you why, but it is FLL related but not associated
with my team. Any help in locating these parts would be
GREATLY appreciated.

-Skye "In Panic Mode" Sweeney

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/01/2003 00:11:32 GMT
    Skye again...
    If you have the parts, please shoot me an email at fll-freak@comcast.net

    -Skye


Discussion: Research project By: wlcrobowarriors1393 11/04/2003 18:02:07 GMT
Can the research project be more then 5 minutes long?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/01/2003 18:22:27 GMT
    The standard time is 5 minutes. I would keep to the limit.
    Because of time constraint at the tournament, you will be
    cut off if you go long.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: wlcrobowarriors1393 11/04/2003 18:02:07 GMT
      Thank You, Skye, for your reply. We greatly appreciate it! Thanks


Discussion: Research project By: wlcrobowarriors1393 11/01/2003 17:46:18 GMT
Can the research project be more then 5 minutes long?

Discussion: Research project presentation By: wlcrobowarriors1393 11/07/2003 23:02:12 GMT
When at competition, is it okay if our video for our research project is on a cd rom? Will they supply a dvd player or do we have to bring our own? For example, PS2 plays cd roms, is there going to be equipment available thier?

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 11/07/2003 23:02:12 GMT
    The judges will not provide anything for your presentation. You will have to provide whatever you want to display your project with.

    Dave Kolberg
    Coach #4 & #2605


Discussion: The alliance habitation module misson By: wlcrobowarriors1393 11/14/2003 17:24:46 GMT
For the alliance habitation module mission, are we aloud to connect both sides? For all you other people, thank you for answering our questions, we are new to this. :)

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/12/2003 20:40:38 GMT
    YEs you may. Check out all the post of this subject under
    mission+rules.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: wlcrobowarriors1393 11/13/2003 20:15:41 GMT
      Thank you very much, again, Skye! :)


    2. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/14/2003 17:24:46 GMT
      yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)


Discussion: Mars Mission Mat By: wlcrobowarriors1393 11/25/2003 20:34:05 GMT
On the Mars Mission Mat, why are their negative coordinates?

--- WLC Robo Warriors

  1. Message by: NewGirlsOnTheBlocks 11/15/2003 18:29:38 GMT
    I'm guessing just to tell left, right, or up, down direction.
    Instead of actually saying like the left such and such or right such and such a coordinate.


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/17/2003 22:11:27 GMT
      That is just the way the great circle of life goes


    2. Message by: wlcrobowarriors1393 11/25/2003 20:34:05 GMT
      Thanks...... I guess......:) --robowarriors


Discussion: Problems with objects in base By: RoboSwans3677 11/23/2003 14:12:06 GMT
Since the Sample Canister and 180-degree habitation modules are in base, are you allowed to put them on your robot and then start the mission?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/23/2003 00:23:21 GMT
    Short answer is yes. Look to the forum for more specifics.
    -Skye


    1. Message by: RoboSwans3677 11/23/2003 14:12:06 GMT
      Thanks for answering!


Discussion: NH Tournament Schedule Change? By: Team Red Alert 229 01/06/2004 02:58:37 GMT
Well, here it is early on the morning of what was to be our chance for glory and an opportunity to advance to the State competition, but Mother Nature is asserting herself - and the Seacoast Tournament has been cancelled.

(BTW, Ross Freeman has done a bangup job so far, and I know he *really* wanted to do this thing up until the last minute, but safety comes first of course! Hey Ross - think maybe you went a *little* overboard when you ordered the special effects this year? ;-) !!!

So, given the extent of this storm, I'm assuming that most if not all of today and tomorrow's tournaments are going to be cancelled as well. By my count, those 5 tourneys were to account for 32 of the 48 teams going to State. If we push everything back a week, that puts us at State the weekend before Christmas, which may be a problem for many people heading out of town. Anyone know what we're going to do? Please post info here as it becomes official so that we all may know!

  1. Message by: Antrim Technology Titans 12/06/2003 12:34:13 GMT
    As of 5:30am, Dover is the only NH event cancelled that I can tell. Can any other site confirm they are cancelled as well? ASAP


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/06/2003 13:42:05 GMT
      One does not simply push the state tournament back a week!
      The amount of planning is stagering for such an event. I
      have no clue what the state director will do to account for
      the cancelation of the Dover tournament, but I am fairly
      confident it will not change the date of the State tourny.

      At this point (6:30 Saturday morning) Nashua (Fairground)
      is still on as well as Manchester. A few openings may still
      be available at these. You might wish to take a big chance,
      drive to one and hope to get accepted.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: RoboSwans3677 12/06/2003 14:11:10 GMT
      Our team -RoboSwans- made the choice to cancel the team trip from Sant Bani School, Central NH to Nashua because of the weather conditions/safety of kids' travel. Although disappointed, the kids and parents were understanding.

      We are new, but have a sense of the hard work the Tournament Director, parents, sponsors, and host team have put in, and hope they know we appreciate it all.

      Best of luck to those teams able to compete today!! We certainly will be thinking about you! Maybe it _does_ snow on Mars after all.

      Richard Danahy.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/06/2003 14:34:49 GMT
        For all teams candeling due to snow, I would suggest
        getting in touch with Linda Lavoie the New Hamphire
        State tournament Director. I have no clue what she plans
        on doing, but you should be included in her plans.

        So as of today, I am glad I do not have Scott Evans or
        Linda Lavoie's jobs!

        -Skye


    3. Message by: RoboSwans3677 12/06/2003 14:42:13 GMT
      Thanks for the prompt. I see she has previously posted her contact information as:

      Linda Lavoie 603-885-3498 (days)
      linda.j.lavoie@baesystems.com

      cheers,
      Richard Danahy


    4. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/06/2003 18:57:52 GMT
      As far as I know, two of the four tournaments planned for today were cancelled: the Seacoast Tournament in Dover and the Manchester Tournament. These two tournaments account for 44 of the teams that had been planning to compete today.

      Our team had been registered for the Seacoast Tournament. When we heard of the cancellation of that tournament last night, we made some calls to quickly find a spot in the Manchester Tournament that had been left by a team which had cancelled earlier this week. We then called all our parents again last night (after calling them shortly before to notify them of the Seacoast cancellation) to let them know that we again had a tournament to attend today! This morning, however, the decision was made to cancel the Manchester Tournament on account of the weather. (I wonder if our team is responsible for the tournament cancellation? :-) We must be the only team that was directly affected by both! :-) )

      The Nashua Tournament is taking place today, and I think it is very likely that the Amherst Tournament is currently underway.

      I have no idea what will be done to provide an opportunity to qualify for the state tournament to the teams that had registered for the cancelled qualifiers. However, I am sure that something will be decided in the next few days. I'll post whatever I find out.

      Best of luck to all teams that are competing today!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    5. Message by: pennichuck864 12/07/2003 03:24:02 GMT
      It is saturday evening, 8:30 pm and the snow is falling hard. We are scheduled for the Hollis-Brookline meet starting at 9AM tomorrow morning. Any word on the status of that meet?

      Paul


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/07/2003 04:07:29 GMT
        The tournament director (Venu Rao) was forced to cancel.
        The school district is canceling all activities including
        FLL. I talked to him this afternoon. He mentioned that he
        had sent out emails to all coaches. He has a few ideas on
        how to salvage the situation. If you have not gotten the
        email from him, I would suggest making seperate contact.

        -Skye Sweeney
        (603) 883 1889


        1. Message by: Antrim Technology Titans 12/07/2003 05:39:06 GMT
          Skye

          Thanks for everything.


    6. Message by: pennichuck864 12/08/2003 14:45:38 GMT
      Tough job for tournament directors this week!

      It will not be easy figuring out what to do with all of the meet cancellations that occurred over this past weekend. Does anyone know of an exactly tally of the the number of teams affected? I know that all the teams have put in a lot of hard work. It would be very disapointing for those who were planning on competing to lose that chance.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/08/2003 17:17:01 GMT
        The NH State Tournament Director is currently pulling out
        her hair in big clumps. In a few hours she should have make
        a very very tough decision. She will then turn her team
        loose to implement her decision. I would expect some kind
        of email by Tuesday.

        For all effected by the weekend's blizzard:

        1) Please understand that the Tournament Director is doing
        everything in her power to fix the situation. Whatever
        solution she picks will have negative effects on some team.

        2) Be prepared to pitch in to help.

        3) Always exercise "Professional Graciousness"

        4) Remember that others have it worst. Maine had to cancel
        their STATE tournament.

        -Skye


    7. Message by: TeamTiger298 12/09/2003 01:10:51 GMT
      I'm one of the co-coaches for TeamTiger in Pelham/Windham.

      It seems that there are multiple possibilities.

      1) Advance all the teams that were snowed out and just run a larger state tournament.
      2) Run the cancelled tournaments first in an abbreviated fashion (they could do the techical and teamwork judging a single time only for the "local/state" combo!) and state tourney into one, perhaps even run one of the tourneys Friday night if possible. The "local tournament" rounds could have a reduced schedule of rounds (say 2, no practice), and do the same for the state tournament (if necessary). That way no one would be "left out in the cold" so to speak.

      I think that the adults and team leaders understand cancellations far more than the kids. They have all worked very hard for the past 3 months. To have their chance to advance taken away like this doesn't seem fair, especially when the other tournaments are still going to go on.

      Since this is attempting to teach the kids about teamwork and fairplay, I'd be willing to kick in some of my extra time if needed to help out somehow.

      My cell phone is 603-475-4115 in case anyone needs to contact me for any help that I can give!

      Carl


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/09/2003 04:22:22 GMT
        Carl,

        We got your number!

        BAE Systems is the sponsor of the NH state tourney. They
        are VERY VERY interested in getting every kid to a
        tournament. They are doing everything they possibly can to
        fix the current situation. Some of your ideas have already
        been considered as well as 30 others. You should be getting
        an email shortly with their final solution.

        -Skye


    8. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/09/2003 16:50:39 GMT
      The NH State Tournament organizers have issued the following message to describe the plan for selecting teams to advance to the state tournament:

      Attention FIRST LEGO League Teams:

      Due to the weather conditions this past weekend and a time crunch between now and the state competition, there will be a FIRST LEGO League State Tournament Qualification Interview Process held on December 11th, 2003, at FIRST Place, from 4-7:00 pm. Teams that did not have the opportunity to compete at a local tournament are eligible for the Qualification Interview Process. We have worked hard to accommodate all suggestions, and feel this will be the best solution for the situation at hand. We recognize the teams would like the opportunity to compete against each other at a local level. The State Committee Members are in the process of organizing local tournaments to take place after the 1st of the New Year.

      Competition Format:

      • Interview Style- in front of a judge panel composed of a Referee, Presentation Judge, and Technical Judge

      • The Interview Process will last 30 minutes

      • In the 30 minutes teams will be judged in the following categories:
        Performance, Technical, Presentation, and Teamwork

      • Teams will arrive with their robot programmed and ready to perform (there will not be an opportunity to alter programs)



      Once Your Team Arrives:

      • Upon arrival, teams will check-in at the registration table

      • A volunteer will hand you a card with a letter, and direct you to your assigned judging area

      • Once called to the judging area you will complete the interview process and then you are free to go

      • Teams will be notified if they will advance to the State Tournament on Friday morning



      What to Bring:

      • A Programmed Robot

      • Robot Program Printouts

      • Presentation Printouts

      • If you have a PowerPoint presentation or need a computer for your presentation you will have to bring your own laptop.



      Prior to Thursday 12/11/2003:

      • Please RSVP No Later than NOON on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 via email

      • In the email please include:
        • The time your team plans to arrive between (4:00-6:30pm)

        • Type of presentation

        • The email address you would like to be notified at on Friday morning with your team's results from the Qualification Interview Process



      Please Be Considerate:

      • Parking is limited. To limit confusion please carpool to this event.

      • Once your team has finished their interview process please exit the judging area promptly so that the next team can begin the process.



      We greatly appreciate your cooperation, patience, support and understanding during this time. We are doing our very best to accommodate as many people we can. We look forward to seeing you on Thursday, December 11th.

      Thank you,

      BAE SYSTEMS State Committee
      Alison B. McFarland
      BAE Systems FIRST Coordinator
      alison.mcfarland@baesystems.com


    9. Message by: pennichuck864 12/09/2003 17:08:50 GMT
      This looks like a good plan. Thanks working this out! One question: Could you post the address/directions to "First Place"? I'm not sure where that is.

      Paul


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/09/2003 17:17:42 GMT
        Go to the www.usfirst.org webpage. They have maps and
        directions.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/09/2003 17:20:11 GMT
        The specific page for maps and directions to FIRST Place in Manchester, NH is
        http://www.usfirst.org/about/map.htm.

        The FIRST Place building is a little tricky to find in the millyard district. However, the 4-story glass atrium is unique in the millyard. FIRST Place is also in the same building as the Millyard Museum, so following signs for the museum will get you into the correct building.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    10. Message by: 12/09/2003 18:13:24 GMT
      Deleted


    11. Message by: pennichuck864 12/10/2003 13:49:08 GMT
      Some questions about the mini-tournament on thursday.

      - how many performance runs will each team be allowed to make?
      - Will teams still be running at the same time as another team? If not how will the scoring of the alliance module be handled?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/10/2003 15:09:30 GMT
        Good questions.
        I think I heard that each team will get 3 whacks at the
        table. As far as the alliance module is concerned, I do
        not know. I (underline the I) would tempted to say that
        if you got your half up, it would score the full amount.
        The other possibilities would be 1/2 score or perhaps
        ignore the alliance module all together. I will see about
        resolving this issue.

        -Skye


    12. Message by: pennichuck864 12/10/2003 19:07:08 GMT
      Another tournament question ....

      Will the team have an opportunity to inspect and perform a test run on the field before the actual scored performance runs? Since there are sometimes minor differences in the field, the team may want to test and adjust the robot accordingly.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/10/2003 19:36:48 GMT
        You certainly will have a chance to inspect the field.
        Not sure how much time you might have during the interview
        to make program changes. The email said none, but the
        reality is that you should be given at least a chance to
        make light sensor value changes. Whatever you do, make sure
        you can do it QUICKLY. With 60 teams showing up from 4 to
        6:30, there will not be time for any wasted time.

        -Skye


    13. Message by: pennichuck864 12/10/2003 22:07:15 GMT
      Spectators allowed?

      A few of the parents of team members are planning on attending the mini-tournament. I'd like to properly set their expectations. Will any non-team members be allowed to watch the interview/performance?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/10/2003 22:23:35 GMT
        I would set them low. This is not a tournament by any
        strch of the imagination. This is an more like an "interview".
        With 60 teams arriving to inteview in a little over
        2:30 hours, parking and spectator space will be very limited.
        They will even be asking teams to leave the area as soon
        as their interview is over with.

        All this goes to indicate that we will need to schedule
        true makeup tournaments after the new year.

        -Skye


    14. Message by: pennichuck864 12/12/2003 01:46:51 GMT
      Just back from the mini-tournament. It was very well run. Thanks much to all who put this complex event together in such a short time.

      Paul


    15. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/12/2003 16:43:02 GMT
      NH State Tournament Qualification Interview Process Results

      The special qualification interviews held last night at FIRST Place in Manchester, NH went very smoothly. This is especially incredible considering that the organizers had only two days to plan and set up the event! Many thanks to the organizers for putting in all the extra effort to conduct this qualification process!

      The following teams have advanced to tomorrow's NH State Tournament:

      24, 35, 41, 43, 44, 59, 63, 70, 75, 77, 229, 406, 441, 507, 695, 1201, 1270, 1394, 1677, 1778, 2136, 2242, 2279, 2902, 3361, 4072

      Congratulations to all teams that participated in the qualification process. For teams that did not qualify, plans are in the works for conducting local tournaments after the new year so that these teams may also experience an FLL tournament.

      Mindstorms Mayhem wishes the best to all teams that will be competing at tomorrow's tournament!

      Let the mayhem begin!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    16. Message by: TeamTiger298 12/12/2003 16:52:07 GMT
      Congratulations to the winners!

      Will the scores from the game for all the teams be posted somewhere at some point? At a typical tournament this info is available. Just curious.

      -Jim


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/12/2003 21:48:42 GMT
        Jim, I honestly don't know if scores from last night's qualifier will ever be posted. The tournament organizers were very focused on making the qualification determinations, and then as soon as that was completed, with preparing for tomorrow's State tournament. I have not seen any of the scores (indeed, I don't even know the official scores from our own team's rounds) and would anticipate that they will not be made available.

        Then again, I'd love to be wrong on this one!

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    17. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 12/12/2003 16:57:10 GMT
      As the originator of this post (who's been monitoring it, but way too busy until now to compose any meaningful addendum), I would like to echo the comments and compliments of Ken and all the others above.

      The qualification process last night was very well run, especially for such a last minute effort. Big thanks go out to Linda and everyone else who helped to bring it together.

      Team Red Alert! looks forward to meeting all of you tomorrow. Best of luck, and as I've told my team, "Now you're in the big time, and it's all over except for having fun!"

      - Scott Kukshtel, Coach
      Team Red Alert!


    18. Message by: Twixters 01/06/2004 02:58:37 GMT
      Well I know that we couldnt compete because we were snowed in so it really wasnt cool for us.


Discussion: Detailed NH State Tourney results? By: Team Red Alert 229 02/03/2004 17:34:23 GMT
I know at least one person is still lurking here (thanks again for everything Skye - your award at the State tourney was well deserved!) so I'll ask: Are there any plans to publish a more detailed breakdown of scoring (or scoring statistics) from the NH State tournament, much as some other states have done? If there are currently no plans, can we start a lobbying effort for this to happen?

My motivation for having this done is to help improve my team in the future. We received our own score sheets, but we have no idea where on the curve we fell in relation to other teams. (Or even if there was a curve - did all the award winners get a perfect 100 in their winning category?) Our research score was really good (we thought), but since we didn't win any of the awards, we don't know how far out of the running we really were. Same thing goes for the technical and teamwork judging. I wouldn't even care if the team names & numbers were left out - I'd just like to know how our score compared to everyone elses.

In addition, some of the scores were very vague - the scoresheets were very detailed, with a nice breakdown of scoring elements in multiple categories, but in many cases the judge just gave us a lump score in each of the main categories, with little or no explanation of the rationale. Again, pretty useless for helping us improve. (And yes, I understand the time and pressure limitations on the judges.)

As opposed to other academic team competitions such as Odyssey of the Mind or Destination Imagination, much of the FLL competition and scoring goes on "behind closed doors". Therefore, it's very difficult to compare our team to other teams and distinguish between the areas where we really fall short and the areas where we did very well, but fell just short of the prize.

Bottom line - I feel like my team did an excellent job in most if not all categories, but for the second year in a row, they walked away with no recognition for it. Although I've done and continue to do extensive research on FLL strategy and robotics in general, I'm running out of ideas to help them do better. Please help me as a coach to understand how to impart that last 10%(or more?) of skills and knowledge that they need to bring home the prize.

Thanks for listening!

- Scott Kukshtel, Coach
Team Red Alert!
Atkinson, NH

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/12/2004 17:33:14 GMT
    Scott,

    I have all the score sheets from the table rounds. I have
    them in a spreadsheet. I have done a bunch of statistics
    on them. I am waitting for Ken to review before I post them.

    As far as the score sheets from the other judging areas,
    they are not available. They were returned to the teams
    before any statistics could be performed.

    The high score may still be available, but I would be very
    hesitant to publish this. The reason is that judging for
    the subjective areas is exactly that. There is also a
    significant amount of 'fudging' that happens in a the
    frantic hour after the scores are in and the trophies are
    awarded. Since FIRST does not want one team to walk off
    with half the trophies, they have instituded a policy that
    prevents the Director Award winner from winning anything
    else other than the performance awards. This often means
    that the second place (numericaly) team will often win the
    individual prize.

    To post the scores openly makes this very apparent to the
    individual teams. This then takes away from the hard win
    of a team ("But we really were only second best...").

    This same type of issue happens when a third place team
    take the top honor due to the first and second place
    teams having taken other trophies. All this "sausage making"
    is best left from the public eye. I am not suggesting that
    FLL is like figure skating. There are a dozen or more judges
    discussing the issue in an open forum. But it can be very
    confusing to those that have not been involved at this
    level.

    The best you can do, is to look at the score sheets for the
    comments that might be present. You can't even look at
    the overall score since some judges score much harder than
    others. Numericaly this is corrected by normalizing the
    scores to the highest score that judge gave. But it can
    be very strange to get back a score sheet with a 70% for
    a catagory you won and a 100% for one you did not!

    As far as how to help your team win the recognition they
    deserve, the only sure fire way is to win the performance
    awards. These are objective. In the subjective world, it is
    a matter of somehow making a good impression on the judges.
    Lets face it, you can't make a truly fair evaluation in
    10-15 minutes. You can't even make one in 4 hours. So the
    judges do what they can in the time given. Somehow you have
    to make that good impression. I work on 'adult interaction'
    skills. How you talk to an adult is different than the way
    kids talk to each other. Short and sweet answers. Look them
    in the eye. Use words they understand. Stand up straight.
    Stay in a group. Hands out of pockets.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 01/12/2004 18:59:56 GMT
      Skye,
      Thanks for the prompt reply - you never fail to please!

      I understand the score adjustment issue, and I guess overall that is the best way to do it. However, do you know what the prize distributions at those Wisconsin tournaments (that posted all their scores) were like? Did a few teams take home all the prizes? Or did they adjust the prize awards in spite of posting the raw numbers?

      The "adult interaction" tip is a good one. I've got a few members who are really good at it, and some who are not so good. When we practiced interview techniques, I really had to coach the "good" ones to not dominate the conversation, as we were really trying to do well on teamwork, but perhaps that exposed the communication weakness of the others. Maybe the technical interview was not the place to demonstrate our teamwork? Oh well, live and learn.

      Thanks again - looking forward to your thorough analysis of the performance rounds!

      - Scott


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/12/2004 20:11:47 GMT
        Scott,

        I was not aware that WI posted all their scores. I also
        do not know if the scores were raw, normalized, or adjusted.
        Each tournament is different. Everyone does it to best
        suit their own situation. I will see if I can learn how
        WI does it.

        Having been a tournament director and a coach, I see both
        sides of the issue. I can't think of a solution that does
        not have a down side. Of course I would welcome suggestions.

        Since judges are human (at last report!) they can be
        swayed by factors outside the area they are judging. The
        team that bickers in the research project may get poorer
        marks than had they been all smiles. They should not. The
        judges should be looking at the technical content only.
        'Teamwork' judging therefore happens at every point in the
        tournament. So do presentation skills. Good 'adult' skills
        play a key role at every stage. When practicing at
        home, ask the questions in a round robin fashion. Make then
        answer themselves even if the answer is "I do not know, but
        Susan does".

        -Skye


      2. Message by: AKEEMA 23 01/12/2004 21:19:47 GMT
        Hi, Scott.

        Wisconsin has also posted a list of the state tournament award winners. The FIRST philosophy is evident in the award distribution. My husband has coached FLL for three years and finds it very helpful to see the posted scores. Occasionally, there have been errors in the recording or calculation of scores and Wisconsin FLL has been very good at fixing them.

        http://www.uwsp.edu/education/creative/FLL/index.asp?Content=TournamentWeb&Id=6

        Sue Wanninger
        AKEEMA (Team 23) and Martian Exchange Students (Team 25)


    2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/14/2004 03:25:57 GMT
      Detailed results of the rounds are now available at my
      web site. Please see:

      http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/2003/2003_state.htm

      -Skye


    3. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 02/03/2004 17:17:40 GMT
      The Oregon State tournament has posted their State winners:

      http://www.ortop.org/ORTOPStateJan2004Winners.pdf

      along with team rankings in each award category:

      http://www.ortop.org/TeamRankingsOregonStateTournament2003.pdf

      Yes, you can see that the top ranked team in each category did not necessarily take the prize for that category (i.e. team 2247 in the Creative Presentation category), but I believe the fact that they won in another category more than compensates for that. In fact, Team 1700 scored highest in *four* categories, but the only prize they took home was the Director's award! However, I doubt that they are bemoaning the lack of recognition in the other categories, especially since the scores are now public for all to see.

      You may notice that for this particular tournament, the prizes were awarded in such a way that no team got more than one award for the top three prizes in each category. I agree that this may be taking fairness to the extreme, as it leads to some real skew in the awards - for example, see the Director's award rankings vs. the top three prizes awarded in this category. However, I still think that a posting of scores such as this would be very helpful, and rather than embarrassing or confusing people, would only help to show teams how much further they have to go to reach the top. Speaking for my team, they would be delighted to know, for example, that they ranked only 25th out of 45 in the Robot Design category rather than not know anything at all.

      And before we trot out the old adage that "it's not about the scores, it's about the experience", I would insist that FLL is a lot like life - it *is* competitive, and for most of us, the proper recognition of our achievements plays a major role in our success.

      (stepping down from soapbox ;-)
      - Scott



Folder: New Jersey 10/04/2003 03:46:26 GMT


Discussion: scoring By: L-Unit 09/22/2003 23:50:42 GMT
dothey take all the rounds and put it together

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/22/2003 23:50:42 GMT
    No each round is scored by itself. Your best round is used
    to decide if you move on to the finals.

    -Skye Sweeney


Discussion: Lansdale Catholic Competition - Nov. 22 By: cc6th 10/04/2003 03:46:26 GMT
Lansdale Catholic Robotics is holding it 6th Annual FLL Competition. It will be held Nov. 22 at Montgomery County Community College. Come test your designs before the state competitions. All participants will get medals. Each team will have 2 practice rounds and 5 competition runs with high score taking all. Cost is $45 per team of 2 coaches and up to 10 students.

For more information send an email to pafwl@aol.com.


Folder: New York 02/14/2004 00:25:41 GMT


Discussion: Hello from England By: redraiders76 11/11/2003 03:53:15 GMT


  1. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 10/30/2003 22:31:55 GMT
    We are the The Mighty Machines from NewYork.Thanks
    for the message.Wish you good luck!


    1. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/11/2003 03:53:15 GMT
      good luck


Discussion: Hello from England By: redraiders76 11/15/2003 21:08:11 GMT
Hello New York were a new team how are you getting on so far.

  1. Message by: Spry501 09/22/2003 21:58:40 GMT
    How do you make a website with this


    1. Message by: Spry501 09/22/2003 22:04:13 GMT
      how do we make a website


    2. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 10/30/2003 22:28:44 GMT
      Our lego name is The Mighty Machines.


    3. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 10/30/2003 22:31:08 GMT
      hi,thank you for the message.We are a new team too.


    4. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 10/30/2003 22:31:25 GMT
      we are a new team too.We haven't got so far yet either because we're having a hard time with the pieces. This is our first year too.We're a rookie team.Our team name is the Mighty Machines.
      Good
      luck!!!!!!!!!


    5. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 10/30/2003 22:31:49 GMT
      We just started in FLL.Were not doing so well because were having a hard time finding the lego pieces.


    6. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 10/30/2003 22:31:54 GMT
      Hi we are The mighty machines We are from NEW YORK! We are new to the program


    7. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 10/30/2003 22:32:23 GMT
      Hi I am from NEW YORK .Our team is new too.


    8. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 10/30/2003 22:33:11 GMT
      Hi!My name is Ashley.Im from NY.


    9. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 10/30/2003 22:40:38 GMT
      Hi we are The mighty machines We are from NEW YORK! We are new to the program


      1. Message by: spiritofmars2435 11/15/2003 20:54:39 GMT
        hi my name is daniel. what is your names?my teams name is the spirit of mars. what is your teams name? well come to the progam see you at the tournment


Discussion: Hi from Denmark By: The Knights of the Future 10/16/2003 16:18:19 GMT
We are a Danish team, who want a team from USA to have a team-work with. We have choosen the exercise about Biosphere II. Maybe we could steer each others robots trough a EGO web camera.

  1. Message by: 10/16/2003 16:18:19 GMT
    Deleted


Discussion: Lansdale Catholic Robotics (PA) Competition - Nov. 22 By: cc6th 12/09/2003 23:45:31 GMT
Lansdale Catholic Robotics is holding it 6th Annual FLL Competition. It will be held Nov. 22 at Montgomery County Community College. Come test your designs before the state competitions. All participants will get medals. Each team will have 2 practice rounds and 5 competition runs with high score taking all. Cost is $45 per team of 2 coaches and up to 10 students.

For more information send an email to pafwl@aol.com.

  1. Message by: grobots2590 10/19/2003 02:18:54 GMT
    Where is it?

    Nick and Matt


    1. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/11/2003 03:53:44 GMT
      u suck


    2. Message by: Blazed Martians 12/09/2003 23:45:31 GMT
      grobots u stink


Discussion: Hi from Hamburg By: Pathfinder3 10/31/2003 01:22:14 GMT
Hi we are the Pathfinders from Hamburg.
We wish you luck for the Tournament.

We will see you at the World-Final.

See You

Pathfinders

  1. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 10/31/2003 01:22:14 GMT
    Hi!We are the new kids. We are called the Mighty Machines. We have finished almost alot. Our team is determined to win. We like the contest. We haven't worked on our logo or any of that stuff.
    Good
    Luck


Discussion: Long Island By: GalacticStorm1377 11/07/2003 03:59:18 GMT
Greetings fellow FLL participants I am interested in talking to advisors/coaches from Long Island, NY... Please contact me ASAP about a possible tournament on LI. Thank you... mcolletta@smithtown.k12.ny.us

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/05/2003 21:57:35 GMT
    hey galacticstorm1377 this is the blaine bat heads


    1. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 11/07/2003 03:59:18 GMT
      Hey GalacticStorm1377.How are you?We're fine.we have finished the 180 and 90 degrees,the rover,the sand dune,the crater,and we finished training pilot missions
      1-4.We have done alot.But we are still working.
      Good Luck the day of the tournaments.
      Good
      Luck
      TheMightyMachines3985


Discussion: Staten Island By: Blazed Martians 02/14/2004 00:25:41 GMT
Hey all. Anyone else out there from Staten Island?

  1. Message by: Rogue Leaders 11/06/2003 03:22:59 GMT
    yea we r the rogue leaders


    1. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/06/2003 05:08:01 GMT
      Kewl. We will beat you at the competition. Not only will we beat you, but we will beat you BADLY.


    2. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/06/2003 22:05:03 GMT
      at up rogue leaders


    3. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/06/2003 22:05:40 GMT
      wat up rogue leaders


    4. Message by: Rogue Leaders 11/07/2003 03:23:34 GMT
      moron we r from ur skool


    5. Message by: TheMightyMachines3985 11/07/2003 04:14:51 GMT
      Hey our school is P.S.280.We're called the Mighty Machines.We have done alot.We hope you good luck in the Finals.
      Good
      Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!from: The Mighty Machines


      1. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/08/2003 03:54:54 GMT
        Hey mighty machines - we wish you good luck also.


      2. Message by: Blazed Martians 01/19/2004 15:02:23 GMT
        hey mightymachines we beat u at brooklyn tech


      3. Message by: Blazed Martians 02/14/2004 00:25:41 GMT
        we beat u
        ha ha


    6. Message by: Rogue Leaders 11/08/2003 14:29:15 GMT
      Rogue leaders rule!


    7. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/11/2003 03:49:40 GMT
      rogue do not rule blazed martians are the best.


    8. Message by: Rogue Leaders 11/14/2003 03:28:31 GMT
      where the hell is ps 280


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/14/2003 04:02:11 GMT
        Please watch your language. FIRST has asked each person
        to follow the Gracious Professionalism prime directive.
        This clearly is not professional.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/20/2003 00:18:48 GMT
          why don't u zip it and mind your own business Tekno devils 40 people can say wat they want


    9. Message by: Blazed Martians 11/24/2003 23:09:17 GMT
      where the hell is i.s.72


    10. Message by: Rogue Leaders 11/28/2003 05:31:48 GMT
      who ever came up with the name tekno devils 40 should be shot in the head


    11. Message by: Blazed Martians 12/04/2003 23:58:23 GMT
      Youre right



Folder: North Carolina 01/17/2004 05:03:45 GMT


Discussion: Team names for Forum usage By: Robohawk 2256 01/03/2004 15:40:54 GMT
Some teams are abiding by the Forum guidelines about the on-line identity and some aren't (shame on you Marie). I would like to ask that all teams include their team number in their on-line identity as stated on the sign up page.

I wouldn't normally be concerned, except that in another thread, someone explains how to set up more than one login per team. It would be helpful to be able to tell how many teams are participating. If I have 8 students and I want them all to be able to check the forum, then it might look like we have an extra 7 teams. In reality, I only want to have one on-line identity per team.

  1. Message by: Mapcuanun 09/30/2003 23:55:02 GMT
    hi Lowell!

    You caught me! I have two older boys who are mentoring two teams year - thus the confusion. Sorry 'bout that.

    I will be bringing two teams to the state tournament - Mars Rocks and The Mapcuanun. That's it.

    See you soon.

    Marie


    1. Message by: Robohawk 2256 10/01/2003 05:14:55 GMT
      Hi Marie!

      I am just glad that you and the other coaches are back! Good luck to all.


    2. Message by: FivesCompany2607 01/03/2004 10:51:49 GMT
      So, with one week to go, I'll test the forum...
      ...Mike


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/03/2004 15:40:54 GMT
        At least you are not asking how many motors you can use
        with just a week to go!

        -Skye


Discussion: Teams near Raleigh By: triangletech2529 11/18/2003 18:03:52 GMT
Hi, we're an independant team in Raleigh, NC. Are there any other teams near us? I'd like to get together so my kids can see what everyone else is up to. They're kinda bogged down right now and need some motivation.

  1. Message by: lego_terminators_2159 10/29/2003 04:09:45 GMT
    We should be at least 5 teams in the (Cry/Apex) area. Your team is more than welcome to meet with us, although we have some time constraints.

    Please mail me directly @ DimasLopez@nc.rr.com


    1. Message by: LegoSiths2351 11/18/2003 18:03:52 GMT
      We too would be able to meet with you. I coach the LegoSiths and last year I coached with Dimas on the Lego Jedi's. Our forum id has my e-mail, jayaypea@hotmail.com.

      Dimas, thanks for letting me see your robot and programs, we are busy changing ours to do the same. You never noticed my shoe camera. (just kidding).


Discussion: State tournament By: LegoSiths2351 01/17/2004 05:03:45 GMT
Does anyone know what teams are registered for the tournament on 1/10 at SERH? I think our team is in, but I've not received any notification from our state director, Debbie Kellogg.

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/18/2003 21:57:32 GMT
    Maybe you could write them a letter,asking if you are resgisterd.They HAVEto write back!


    1. Message by: LegoSiths2351 11/20/2003 20:24:24 GMT
      Phone calls and e-mails to the state director go unanswered and FLL says to contact her. Have any North Carolina teams heard either way about whether they are registered for the state tournament or not?


      1. Message by: triangletech2529 11/24/2003 23:31:02 GMT
        I've heard nothing. The date seems to have changed to Jan 10th for no apparent reason.
        What's up??


    2. Message by: Mapcuanun 11/27/2003 00:48:00 GMT
      The date was evidently never supposed to have been posted as Dec 6. That was an error.

      Debbie is also a FIRST Robotics coach and quite hard busy.

      Based upon an email from her somewhat recently, if you registered through the FLL site back in October, then you are registered for the NC State Tournament. Since we are in a state with a relatively small number of teams, getting into the state event is not an issue - yet.

      Marie Hopper
      coach Mars Rocks and Mapcuanun
      Greensboro


    3. Message by: LegoSiths2351 12/04/2003 19:27:10 GMT
      Hello all,

      I can certainly appreciate the work load Debbie must be under both coaching a team and coordinating the tournament. Last year's went off great and we all had a great time. That said, even a post of the registered teams would be helpful so that we all knew whether or not we were in. Admittedly I missed the cutoff but I "THINK" I still got in through the FL teams and tournaments page. Has anyone received any communication at all from Debbie? By the way, are you aware that the Mars probe is scheduled to land on January 10th? Coincidence?

      Thanks all,
      Jeff Peter son
      Coach - LegoSiths


    4. Message by: Mapcuanun 12/18/2003 00:32:28 GMT
      Just a heads up: you should have received a packet from Debbie in the mail with state tourney info.


    5. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/11/2004 22:28:35 GMT
      How did the NC tournament go? I am dying of curiosity!

      -Skye


      1. Message by: millennium3167 01/12/2004 16:15:21 GMT
        I would love to say it went off without a hitch, but it never got a chance. we had a dusting of winter weather (.5"-1") so the schools freaked out and cancelled school on Friday. this closed the school on Friday night when the set-up was to take place. now common since tells me that if we cannot set-up on Friday night we come in early on sat morning and do it, maybe causing some delays or cutting back on some of the fluff. but no.... they just decided to cancel the whole thing. now thats just the message we need to send our teams, "if its not easy, lets just not do it" I for one was shocked, i thought we were supposed to be teaching the kids to solve problems and overcome challanges. using this mentality, the first time our rover got stuck on the ramp we would have folded up and decided that it just could not be done. i do not mean to be bitter but my team for one overcame many obsticles, worked very hard and they desirve a state tournament. with the season winding down i am really concerned that we will be without a tournament . how am i supposed to explain that to my team? "its ok to give up when your an adult" "it was not important" "when the going gets tough, go home"

        if i sound upset, i am not.....just very disipointed and saddened that this wonderful opputunity to inspire our children may have been lost. this is not the memory i had hoped to give my team.


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/12/2004 16:26:52 GMT
          How sad.
          Safety is of course paramount. 1" of snow in New Hampshire
          is still swimming weather. I guess it shuts things down
          in NC!

          Is there a chance that it will get re-scheduled? Perhaps
          in June when the likelyhood of snow will be less?

          -Skye


    6. Message by: millennium3167 01/12/2004 16:46:20 GMT
      might find out today. but my fear is that we will not be able to reschedule it in time. i think it has to be done this month which does not leave us much time.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/12/2004 17:40:00 GMT
        Why would it have to be done this month? Some states
        run the tournament in February!

        -Skye


        1. Message by: millennium3167 01/12/2004 21:18:47 GMT
          i do not know that for sure, i was just going by the schedule 2003 on the fll site http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=12290
          it does not go into detail so it may be flexible.


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/12/2004 23:22:23 GMT
            I can only believe that FIRST would not have a problem
            violating that schedule due to weather issues. The only
            issue might be if FIRST was sending a team to help the
            director. In that case FIRST is realy busy right now with
            the high school program. That could posibly become an issue.

            -Skye


    7. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/17/2004 05:03:45 GMT
      Any news on the canceled state tournament?

      -Skye


Discussion: North Carolina Teams By: RoboWarriors1765 01/13/2004 18:36:51 GMT
We are travelling up to North Carolina from Mississippi for the state competition. We were wondering if any other teams were doing the alliance module. If not, we will need to alter our programs. Thanks! :)

  1. Message by: LegoSiths2351 01/13/2004 18:36:51 GMT
    We will be doing the alliance hab mod and are hoping other teams are doing the same to jointly bring them together. Our intention was to ask the adjoining team before the round if they wanted to join the mod's and when.
    Hopefully your team will be one of the teams next to us so we can complete this mission. That depends, of course, on when the tournament is going to take place. Still no word from Debbie.
    LegoSiths2351



Folder: Ohio 01/21/2004 21:26:05 GMT


Discussion: Hello By: Mars Defenders 301 12/05/2003 23:42:36 GMT
Hello to all the teams in Ohio. We are in the Jamestown area near Dayton. Where are you?

  1. Message by: P.O.P Panthers(4thgrade) #2863 09/24/2003 19:30:15 GMT
    Hello, We at Prince of Peace Catholic School in Madisonville (Cincinnati) Ohio


    1. Message by: P.O.P Rockin' Robots (grade5)#1528 09/24/2003 19:32:52 GMT
      Hello, we are Prince of Peace Catholic School in Cincinnati


      1. Message by: Orbiters684 10/30/2003 19:04:12 GMT
        I am for the orbiters684 How did you get all your info about the assignment?


        1. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 11/03/2003 16:32:38 GMT
          Start with asking your coach about the assignment.


    2. Message by: planetaryrats1125 09/24/2003 23:47:03 GMT
      Hello we are St. Gertrude School in Madeira (Cincinnati) Ohio


      1. Message by: redice2598 10/19/2003 19:45:18 GMT
        Hello planetaryrats1125 we are Red Ice, near St. Ann School.
        We have six boys and we all go to St. Ann School. What competition are you going to??????


        1. Message by: Orbiters684 10/30/2003 19:06:01 GMT
          All if we can red ice by the way how did you get all your info for the assignment?


    3. Message by: CLIMB 1934 09/25/2003 17:27:18 GMT
      Hello - We are CLIMB Robotics in Canton. Can someone guide me to the place to find TEAMS WILLING TO MENTOR and TEAMS WANTING A MENTOR. Thanks, felicia


    4. Message by: Girard RoboKittens1044 09/26/2003 22:43:11 GMT
      Hello Everyone!

      We are the Girard Junior High School RoboKittens from Girard, Ohio and this is our first year in the Lego League. You may have heard of the Girard High School RoboCats. They are our mentors. Do you have any advice for a new team just starting out? We would love to hear your ideas! Our team is just forming now and we have a lot of work to do. Thanks and best wishes ot all other teams!


      1. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 09/30/2003 07:12:31 GMT
        Hello RoboKittens! What part of the state is Girard in? Are you near a big city?

        New team advice - Check out
        http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq/
        Skye's FAQ will probably answer a lot of your questions.


        1. Message by: redice2598 10/26/2003 19:35:13 GMT
          We are near Cincinnati, Ohio and we are RED ICE. We are a neighborhood team of six boys who all dig legos. We want to know if anyone is doing the AHM. We are not going to do it if alot of people are not going to. So if any OHIO teams could respond that would be a big help. BYE.


          1. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 10/27/2003 04:48:27 GMT
            Red ice,
            Our team has not decided yet. We do have a weight designed to have the robot push up against the AHM. I don't know if we will take the time out of our 2 1/2 min. to do that strategy or not. It's a hard decision to make.


      2. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 10/02/2003 21:12:44 GMT
        Last year we, the Memorial Mustangs, made 13th in the state competition, and close to that in research. But we chocked in the technical presentation. My main advice to you is make your presentation fit for engineers. It will be hard but it will save you lots of points.

        Hope to see you there,
        N.K, from the Memorial Mustangs

        P.S we started last year, and we made it far, so keep hopes high


    5. Message by: WestGRookies1005 10/01/2003 16:14:49 GMT
      Hello, we are the WestGrookies1005 from Chesterland Ohio and we are new! Are there any other teams around us? (We are northeast of Cleveland).


    6. Message by: 10/02/2003 21:09:26 GMT
      Deleted


    7. Message by: 10/02/2003 21:11:27 GMT
      Deleted


    8. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 10/02/2003 21:23:43 GMT
      Hi we are The memorial jr high mustangs! We are around in the eastern side of cleveland! -Fireball from the mjhs team.


      1. Message by: WestGRookies1005 10/03/2003 02:34:36 GMT
        Where exactly are you located? Are you an experienced team? What advice could you give us rookies? HELP! Are there any local competitions? How far should we be by now?


    9. Message by: ciruitbreakers161 10/09/2003 17:04:31 GMT
      Hi to all! We are the Sylvania Circuit Breakers, and we're a suburb of Toledo. We've been competing for 3 three years, and we've had new members each year with moves, and age restrictions. It's the first year we have had 4th graders on the team. We are excited about meeting other teams, and having fun at tournaments. Good luck to everyone!


    10. Message by: Robots in Black (STM)#1529 10/13/2003 02:39:56 GMT
      Hi. We are at ST. Thomas More School in Cincinnati. This is our first year.


    11. Message by: Marvins Martians (STM)#2864 10/13/2003 02:47:59 GMT
      Hi! We are Marvin's Martians, and we are also at St. Thomas More school in Cincinnati. We are looking forward to meeting all of you at the tournaments.


    12. Message by: Burning Phoenix 10/17/2003 01:27:52 GMT
      greetings to all. we are a brand new team from Orchard School of Science located in Cleveland. Everyone is excited. Hope to meet everyone at the tournaments.


      1. Message by: redice2598 10/26/2003 19:55:44 GMT
        Hi we are red ice, we are new too. please tell us more about yourself, how many members do you have, how old are they, do you have any advice about the attachments? see ya later!


    13. Message by: 10/19/2003 20:04:25 GMT
      Deleted


    14. Message by: redice2598 10/19/2003 20:07:41 GMT
      Hello we are Red Ice
      we are located in Colerain Township in Cincinnati Ohio.
      We are a team of six odd friends who dig legos. PEACE OUT DUDES. WE COME IN PEACE.


    15. Message by: redice2598 10/26/2003 19:51:46 GMT
      I was wondering if you were going to make a garage for your robot, you know, something to hold it in and to protect it from other infrared towers. If so, what does it look like and whats it made of? please respond to red ice.


      1. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 10/27/2003 04:52:17 GMT
        A garage is a good idea. I think we just used a large shoe box or a small regular box last year. Anything with a lid will do. Don't spend a lot of time on it. It doesn't need to be fancy just functional. Save your time to work on the missions and research.


    16. Message by: TheLegoWorks1859 10/28/2003 00:52:26 GMT
      hi


    17. Message by: TheLegoWorks1859 10/30/2003 20:00:38 GMT
      Hey from Newark Ohio! Our team has 7 members and it's our first time. My sister and i are doing some of the research for our research project. Any sites you think would help?


      1. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 11/03/2003 16:30:38 GMT
        Have you checked out all the sites listed at http://www.legoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11350

        I have only looked briefly at some of the sites there, but what I saw is packed with information.


    18. Message by: TheLegoWorks1859 11/03/2003 19:18:57 GMT
      Thanks! I was just about to look there.


    19. Message by: Team E.G.G.3152 11/04/2003 01:33:39 GMT
      Hi We are from Toledo and last year we came 2nd in regionals and 5th in state


    20. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 11/05/2003 22:13:45 GMT
      HI IM GLAD THAT PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD CAN JOIN THE FIRST LEGO LEAGUE!!


    21. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 11/05/2003 22:27:15 GMT
      HEY MARS DEFENDERS WE ARE IN SOUTH EUCLID/LYNDHURST


    22. Message by: CSG2017 11/05/2003 23:01:14 GMT
      dose ne 1 know if bexley middle school has a lego league team?


    23. Message by: robokittens1044 11/07/2003 22:48:13 GMT
      Hello to all Ohio teams. We have changed our team name. We are no longer The Robokittens, Team 1044. We are now The RoboDragons, Team 1044! We want to wish everyone success at their practices and competitions. We have been working very hard to be ready to compete in Cleveland on December 13. Best wishes to all!


    24. Message by: RampCrushers1005 11/21/2003 03:16:43 GMT
      Hi! WestGRookies 1005 is now newly renamed the RampCrushers1005. See you in Cleveland!


    25. Message by: TheLegoWorks1859 12/05/2003 23:41:55 GMT
      Hello! Is anybody going to the competition tomorrow morning in Columbus? LegoWorks is! Gook Luck to everyone going! I'm excited! Some people ask me if I'm nervous but, I'm not! I'm excited and bumped! Duh alot of you are going so why in the world did I ask that question? lol! Oh well! That's me! :-) Anyway!

      GOOD LUCK ALL OHIO TEAMS!

      Can't wait to see some pros in action! (we're beginners so, to see some ppl in action will do us good. ; ))

      ttyl!
      Danielle


Discussion: Local tournaments By: P.O.P Rockin' Robots (grade5)#1528 10/17/2003 01:50:46 GMT
Does anyone know of any local tournaments that will be held in the Eastern Cincinnati area? I have 4 teams and would like to give them an idea of what it will be like prior to the regionals.

  1. Message by: WestGRookies1005 10/01/2003 16:12:09 GMT
    Does anyone know of any local tournaments in the Cleveland or Northeastern Ohio area? We are 2 new teams and could use some idea what to expect. Also, how do you advance from Regional to state - do you have to be in the top _________? What if there is no room for one of your teams to compete in the Regional? Can they still go to state?


    1. Message by: Space Serpents 10/08/2003 16:54:08 GMT
      For a local close to Cinci try the Experi Center in Miamisburg,I'm not sure if they have any spaces left but it might be worth a try. www.expericenter.com


    2. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 10/17/2003 01:50:46 GMT
      I see Connie Jensen is updating the web page for Ohio.

      http://www.asccxe.wpafb.af.mil/Robotics/index.htm

      I found the regional listed, but no locals. You will need to contact her for more information. Connie.Jensen@wpafb.af.mil

      Last year the explanation of how to qualify for State was on the web site, but I don't see it. Contact Connie for that too.


Discussion: Alliance Habitation module By: MemorialMustangs1642 11/25/2003 18:58:04 GMT
Would it be possible to assemble the alliance habitation module ourselfs?

  1. Message by: MARS930 10/03/2003 02:00:33 GMT
    I've heard that you can assemble the Alliance Habitation Module without the other team (legaly too!) in some of the other disscussions. Browse around-it should be out there somewhere!:-)


    1. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 10/03/2003 21:17:12 GMT
      Greatings from Memorial. If you assemble the Alliance habitation modual by your self do you get the other team's points that they would have reiceved, points are distrubuted the same as normal, or do you get the normal amount and the other team gets nothing?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/03/2003 22:03:53 GMT
        If you erect both sides yourself, the other team still
        gets its points and you yours.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 10/03/2003 21:25:27 GMT
      In your opinion do you think it is worth the time to do this task?


      1. Message by: thearmyoftheLord2882 10/14/2003 16:31:02 GMT
        No. Not to try to do it without alliance. But also, the robot must stay within it's own borders, correct? So could it do both sides without going out of bounds?


      2. Message by: Bremen Botz! 11/25/2003 18:58:04 GMT
        You might want to consider doing it (even if you do it by yourself). The high scores are uses to determine the Performance Award and advancement to next rounds (if your state does elimination rounds). It would be a shame to have another team get a 43? point advantage because you chose not to try it. Even if the other team gets points too, they still have to do everything else.

        Les
        Bremen Botz! 195


    3. Message by: harris-194 10/14/2003 17:26:43 GMT
      Where in the rules does it say the robot must stay within the table's borders? There is a rule that it must be completely within base at the start of the mission, but that's the only rule about borders.

      Try not to add more constraints, the current rules and physics are quite enough.

      Courtney
      Harris-194


    4. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 10/16/2003 20:44:22 GMT
      What if the other team dosnt do it? You will be in a bad situation, so i think mabye if a tool could do it? -Fireball from the mustangs


    5. Message by: 10/16/2003 20:44:45 GMT
      Deleted


    6. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 10/23/2003 20:51:25 GMT
      Hey I think I found the solution! If we use a tool that dosent interfer with the other team.... we can cross the border!!!!! -Fireball from the mustangs


      1. Message by: robotic panthers748 11/20/2003 17:49:00 GMT
        Can we make something to push against the one on our side and leave it there to make it stay up So that the other team just has to push there side up?


    7. Message by: Operation Phoenix 382 10/26/2003 17:46:01 GMT
      poop


    8. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 10/30/2003 22:05:02 GMT
      What happens if the Habitation module dosn't come together when the robot hits it?


      1. Message by: 10/30/2003 22:06:41 GMT
        Deleted


      2. Message by: 10/30/2003 22:08:44 GMT
        Deleted


      3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/30/2003 23:54:46 GMT
        If the magnets (or magnet housings) are not in contact with each other, then there are no points awarded.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    9. Message by: 10/30/2003 22:08:20 GMT
      Deleted


    10. Message by: 10/30/2003 22:10:31 GMT
      Deleted


    11. Message by: 10/30/2003 22:11:39 GMT
      Deleted


    12. Message by: 10/30/2003 22:11:55 GMT
      Deleted


    13. Message by: 10/30/2003 22:12:21 GMT
      Deleted


    14. Message by: 10/30/2003 22:12:38 GMT
      Deleted


    15. Message by: 10/30/2003 22:13:01 GMT
      Deleted


    16. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 11/05/2003 22:01:38 GMT
      What happenes if when the robot hits it and the module falls over? It probably won't happen.

      Fireball from the Mustangs


    17. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 11/06/2003 21:57:22 GMT
      What is the modules job?

      TAKEN AWAY


    18. Message by: 11/06/2003 22:01:24 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: how many teams By: MindStormTroopers1741 11/18/2003 22:57:35 GMT
How many teams are there form OHIO?

  1. Message by: LEGO League - Systemadministrator 10/13/2003 15:38:10 GMT
    You can click on "Teams and Tournaments" http://www.firstlegoleague.org/Calendar.aspx?pid=210 to contact other teams from Ohio


    1. Message by: Operation Phoenix 382 10/26/2003 21:02:04 GMT
      72 to save you the trouble of counting.
      -
      We are strange


    2. Message by: RoboRacers682 10/27/2003 19:02:13 GMT
      Wow


    3. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 11/18/2003 22:57:35 GMT
      How many teams are going to the Columbus competition?


Discussion: Rsearch Help By: Operation Phoenix 382 11/06/2003 21:54:32 GMT
Does anyone have a good site for habitation module research

  1. Message by: TheLegoWorks1859 11/03/2003 20:23:17 GMT
    I really haven't done any research on that but, if you go to www.google.com and type something like "Habitation Module research" you'll probably get some pretty good links.


    1. Message by: 11/06/2003 21:54:32 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: Jigs By: PeaBots 11/19/2003 22:06:03 GMT
What the heck is a Jig? I don't know what it is. Please help. If you know plz notifie this diccusion it would greatly help. O yes, before i forget does mars have a core?

team p bot

  1. Message by: harris-194 11/19/2003 01:56:55 GMT
    A jig is a device to help you duplicate measurements, markings, etc. Carpenters use jigs (pre-drilled pieces of wood) to put holes in the sides of book shelves. Using the jig helps to keep the holes in the same place for all the book cases.

    In this context, a jig would be made of legos and be used to help you place your robot in the same spot/orientation every time. This can be critical for missions that require the robot be "aimed" at the target.

    The jig is not part of the robot, but it cannot stick out past the base boundaries.

    Hope that helps,
    Courtney
    Harris-194


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/19/2003 22:06:03 GMT
      u all can be used for nothing your worthless


Discussion: Congratulations to the Mighty DUCCS!! By: Turbine Twisters 01/21/2004 21:26:05 GMT
Congratulations to the State Champion Mighty DUCCS!!
Good Luck at Nationals!!

  1. Message by: Team E.G.G.3152 01/21/2004 21:26:05 GMT
    Congratulations Mighty DUCCS! You did a great job at the State Tournament. We all look forward to your trip to Atlanta to the Nationals. Good Luck!



Folder: Oregon 02/27/2004 00:49:42 GMT



Folder: machinations #1 12/07/2003 06:05:33 GMT
FLL has graciously provided this ready made webspace for us to use, we may as well give it a shot...

Winterhaven School Team Discussions

Rules:
Anything goes, within the limits of good taste and decorum.

Purpose:
Sounding board and scratchpad for topics of discussion, ideas, research project, or anything else that comes to mind in between meetings.

Usage:
If you think of something, take a minute to put it up. Hopefully, printing from this page will be good, and we can just print out what we talked about and bring it to meetings.

-russ

Discussion: Greetings! By: Red Planet Gladiators702 09/04/2003 21:50:45 GMT
Hi! I'm the coach for the Red Planet Gladiators. This is our first year so we are looking forward to meeting everyone. I'm just getting everything started and will be turning everything over to my team members shortly. While our team is quite young, we have been discussing Mars, LEGO, and robot design this summer and are eager to jump in and meet other teams in our area.

Sincerely,
Glenn Graham, coach for the Red Planet Gladiators
http://home1.gte.net/res0jwg1/astronomy

Discussion: Local tournaments By: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/17/2003 04:53:05 GMT
I'm a first year coach and was wondering if anyone would be willing to share their descriptions of the different tournament locations? I assume that the those held at Hillsboro High are in a gymnasium setting. How about the Intel-Jones Farm location? It would be really helpful to have descriptions of what the pit areas are like, what to expect in the research presentation room, and what the challenge "arena" is like.

  1. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/13/2003 19:25:11 GMT
    To get things started: I saw the tournament held at Clackamas last year. It was held in the school gym with two pairs of competition tables on the floor, a tape line around each pair that non-participants needed to stay behind. Two members from each team were at each table with the other members of their team on the floor a little ways back cheering them on. The bleachers were filled to about 60% capacity with parents and FLL team members. Lots of noise and excitement. A close up view of the action being displayed on a big screen. Not being with a team, I wasn't able to view any of the other aspects of the event.


    1. Message by: fvlego2261 10/16/2003 19:54:37 GMT
      The Intel Jones Farm contest will be in a set of very large presentation/meeting rooms. They have approximately 12' ceilings with the suspended acoustic panels and fluorescent lighting. The rooms are probably 40'x60'. I don't know what sort of accomodations will be made for spectators.


      1. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/17/2003 04:53:05 GMT
        Thanks, I can picture that. Its quite a bit different than a gym setting. Also, I wonder how many guests each team member will be able to invite. I guess its up to each local committee. We submitted our choices a few days ago but it will be interesting to see which locations are the most popular. Several of our team members' parents work at Intel so that was our first request.


Discussion: team/web pages By: Red Planet Gladiators702 02/27/2004 00:49:42 GMT
Please post a message here when your team has info posted on their FLL team page or team web page. Our team members would like to get to know some of the other teams in the area. Some of us may actually know some of you through school, sports, scouts, and through our parents work.

  1. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 11/04/2003 23:07:55 GMT
    Last night I sat down with one of our team members (my son) and explained how web pages work and how to author them. To get the team web page started he has put together a short page with some team photos. The rest of the team will be getting involved as soon as we can find the time and decide what other material they want to share.

    You can reach our web page using the link on our team page or with the link below:

    http://home1.gte.net/res0jwg1/LEGO/Red_Planet_Gladiators.html


    1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 11/25/2003 19:02:16 GMT
      Our web page is up from last year...

      http://www.bremenrobotics.org

      If you want to see our strategy and programs (last year of course :) login with username Guest and password Guest

      We hope to have this years page up this week (same address)

      Les
      Bremen Botz! 195


    2. Message by: TechSavvy741 02/27/2004 00:49:42 GMT
      RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL


Discussion: Mission Challenge.. By: Chakra 10/30/2003 00:10:53 GMT
Hi,

This is my first time as the coach, and I have not seen prior tournaments.

I am trying to find out if how the missions are accomplished in the tournament. The FL site does not tell it very clearly. Does the Robot have to finish each of the mission in sequence (A through I)? Does it come to base after every mission? Do the missions need to be completed by a single program? Do we have have an opportunity to change program? Does the clock keep ticking while we change the program?

thanks,
Arvind Kumar

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/23/2003 21:08:36 GMT
    Lots of questions sooooo little time!

    1) Try reading the coaches handbook at:
    http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net It is a big file but
    probably worth the download.

    2) Try reading the FAQ at:
    http://fll-fread.home.comcast.net/faq

    3) quick answers:
    No order. Does not have to come back to base each mission.
    You can use all 5 available program slots on the RCX switching
    between them manualy while in base. You may not reprogram the
    RCX in the competition area but you may back in the pits.
    Yes the time keeps going!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/29/2003 06:31:07 GMT
      Hi Arvind, I'm local and I'd be glad to discuss what I've learned so far. Its our first year but I was able to observe the state competition last year. I've also spent quite a bit of time reading archives and hunting down websites.

      Each team tries to complete as many of the missions as possible during the 2.5 minutes. The missions can be attempted in any order. I saw many teams re-try failed attempts if they had time. Some successfully completed more than one mission in a single program. There are five slots to store programs in the RCX. You can only load the programs while in the pit area (which is a serperate room from the tournament area). You won't be able to change them during your 2.5 minutes. If you plan to attempt 5 or less missions then you can use one program for each. If more, then you need to figure out how to complete multiple missions with one program.

      Be sure to scour the FLL website. There is a LOT of info. Also, check the ORTOP website. It has additional info as well.

      I wish you luck with your team. Where are you located and what is your team like? My team members are eager to meet with others. it might even be fun to get together for a "warmup" tournament to get some practice.


    2. Message by: spirit2918 10/29/2003 14:09:59 GMT
      Where is the ORTOP website? I haven't heard of that one yet?
      Thanks
      diane(also a new team coach)


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/29/2003 15:39:00 GMT
        http://www.ortop.org/


    3. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 10/30/2003 00:10:53 GMT
      Yup, its a local Oregon robotics organization. Good for local news about the local tournaments.


Discussion: Launcher questions By: Electronic Executioners2148 11/29/2003 08:00:15 GMT
We are wondering where the ball is before you set it on the launcher.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/01/2003 01:59:49 GMT
    Read the forum under "Rules and mission questions".
    -Skye


    1. Message by: Electronic Executioners2148 11/03/2003 05:41:54 GMT
      Thankyou.


    2. Message by: LO Girls 1305 11/29/2003 08:00:15 GMT
      The team has it in base. You have to figure out how to get it to the launcher, then how to launch it.


Discussion: how many programs does it all take you By: TechSavvy741 12/06/2003 19:03:59 GMT


  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/06/2003 19:03:59 GMT
    Every team has a different strategy for squeezing in all of the mission attempts to the five program slots. The team that I coach decided to "double up" missions in programs so that all of the missions are attempted in 5 "mission attempts" (the run button is pressed a total of 5 times in the team's ideal round). Each of their mission attempts is in a different program slot.

    The above approach (doubling up missions) has the advantage of minimizing the "robot handling" in the base, but has the drawback of potential increased failures, since two missions need to work on one "mission attempt."

    The other common approach is to make "short and quick" missions, with the robot checking some sensor input (touch/light) when the program starts to figure out which of two (or more) missions to attempt with the program from a given program slot.

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: how many programs does it all take you By: TechSavvy741 12/05/2003 20:26:56 GMT


Discussion: Who's going to state? By: psychopirates3128 01/14/2004 01:45:00 GMT
just curious....... see you there!

  1. Message by: LO Girls 1305 12/14/2003 18:59:50 GMT
    Kung Fu Robots are going to State! Hey, did your team have problems with veering? We had the worst time at competitions with our motors w/ a mind of their own. We've put new batteries in, changed the motors, what else is there to do?


    1. Message by: Electronic Executioners2148 12/18/2003 01:19:50 GMT
      Electronic Executioners are also going to State. Like the LO Girls we are also having problems with veering. We fixed it so it wouldn't veer as much.

      See You at State,
      Electronic Executioners


    2. Message by: TechSavvy741 01/13/2004 23:18:52 GMT
      See `ya there!


    3. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 01/14/2004 01:45:00 GMT
      Rookie team Red Planet Gladiators will be there! Veering has been an issue for our team as well. We follow walls when we can. In a couple of missions we can't so we make sure that the bushings, wheels, and axels are turning freely, run with fresh batteries, try to make the program run correctly under those conditions and hope for the best.

      Good luck to both of your teams!

      -Red Planet Gladiators: http://home1.gte.net/res0jwg1/LEGO/



Folder: Pennsylvania 11/28/2003 16:49:44 GMT



Folder: Park Foresr 10/14/2003 20:53:16 GMT



Folder: PENNSYLVANIA 12/17/2003 21:47:50 GMT
Jr Comets
Jr Comets 2
Jr Comets 3

Discussion: teams By: Robodawgs577 12/17/2003 21:47:50 GMT
WHO IS TEAM 579???????????????????

  1. Message by: Screeching Eagles 12/09/2003 22:48:57 GMT
    its blue mountain


    1. Message by: Screeching Eagles 12/09/2003 22:49:25 GMT
      wass up


    2. Message by: Screeching Eagles 12/09/2003 22:50:02 GMT
      where are you from


    3. Message by: Screeching Eagles 12/09/2003 22:50:43 GMT
      hu


    4. Message by: Screeching Eagles 12/17/2003 21:47:50 GMT
      any one there



Folder: PENNSYLYANIA 02/22/2004 22:46:57 GMT
Jr. Comets
Jr. Comets 2
Jr. Comets 3

Discussion: coaches: By: Jr Comets II 10/16/2003 07:14:31 GMT
Matt Atkinson
Dan Stone

  1. Message by: Sindarin148 10/02/2003 22:57:46 GMT
    Hi! My name is Karl Muller, and my 2 sons, Josh (11) and Jake (8), are doing the First Lego League for the first time. We've had a blast building various robots (out of the manuals, with a bit of experimentation) and doing some very basic programming this summer as we familiarized ourselves with the Legos, the robot, the software, etc. We also built the table suggested (93"x45" with shop light), and my sons were very excited to receive the Lego mat and Mars terrain stuff in August.

    My problem or question for anyone out there is this. Do you have any tips on how to help the boys with a robotic arm which they are designing, experimenting, redoing, etc.? They build an arm, figure out how to attach it to their rover bot, and then wonder how to program it to do a task or two - both software questions and design questions - gears, motor for the arm, etc. I don't want to give them too much help, but I also want to enable them to continue the trial-and-error process, and they seem stumped. They'd be happy if they could get an arm to move, and to control its motion. They were able to do so with one of the robots they built from instructions in the manual, but that arm merely "slapped five," and now they'd like to have it do a bit more.

    Just wondering. Thanks for any tips you can pass along.
    Thanks,
    Karl, Josh, and Jake Muller


    1. Message by: comets588 10/03/2003 22:41:19 GMT
      Hi. Our team, Saint Ambrose Comets, is only in our second year, and we can use all the tips we can obtain. We did not have a very good year in 2002, but in the mean time, our team has developed into a much better team. We have acquired many tricks, tips, and skills by discussing elements of Lego Robotics with other teams, and by observing other team's approaches to the obstacles in the competition. Although we are confident that we can have a better team, we would appreciate your help very much. However, we are willing to give away any trick, tips, and skills you would like.

      Hoping to converse,
      Saint Ambrose Comets


    2. Message by: Robomaniacs 10/16/2003 07:14:31 GMT
      Karl,

      The answers to your questions about the arm would depend alot on its construction. How many motors are attached, how many pivot points,etc. The robot our team has designed for this year uses an arm for some of the missions.

      We are a team in Maryland. I don't know what part of PA you are in, but we may be able to give you some help. You can e-mail me at mheil@bgcharford.org and we can see what we can work out.

      Mark Heil
      RoboManiacs


Discussion: coaches: By: Jr Comets II 10/10/2003 15:09:23 GMT
Matt Atkinson
Dan Stone

  1. Message by: cc6th 10/10/2003 15:09:23 GMT
    What part of PA are you in????


Discussion: coaches: By: Jr Comets II 11/13/2003 20:53:27 GMT
Matt Atkinson
Dan Stone
BUILDERS:
Alex Tigue
Devin Scanlon
Dom Castanzo
Silas Stevens
Kerry Joyce

  1. Message by: FRMS2284 11/11/2003 18:40:45 GMT
    Do you know any good websites that have information about the elements of Mars? If so, could you please list them? Because on the MAV Launcher mission, I can't find any information about the elements of Mars.


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/11/2003 18:48:06 GMT
      Please define an 'element'!
      Carbon, oxygen, plutonium?
      Crust, mantel, core?
      Polar, tropical?
      Orbit parameters?

      If you mean the various mission for this year's challenge,
      there is no web page that will cover them all. Specificaly,
      you are not likely to find a web page devoted to rescuing
      robots on Mars written at the primary school level.

      This is where looking for comparable Earth bound missions
      might be your best bet. Research those, then extrapolate.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: FRMS2284 11/11/2003 18:54:25 GMT
      Anything that makes up a big part of Mars' core, atmosphere, ... would help. I'm need the details soon. I can't even find a website with any of the elements listed above. Help!


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/11/2003 19:42:06 GMT
        You should be able to find info on the atmosphere.
        Perhaps even a bit about percentages of various elements.
        But most of the other stuff is NOT know! And that is
        exactly what you want! You want to send a mission to
        Mars to learn something NEW!

        -Skye


    3. Message by: FRMS2284 11/13/2003 20:33:02 GMT
      What is the webpage for the info on the atmosphere?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/13/2003 20:53:27 GMT
        A yahoo search of 'Mars Atmosphere' turned up a fair number
        of places.

        -Skye


Discussion: TEAMS By: Robodawgs577 02/22/2004 22:46:57 GMT
WHO IS TEAM 579???????

  1. Message by: Sindarin148 02/22/2004 22:46:57 GMT
    Hi
    my name Brendan,
    Whats your team name?


Discussion: Lansdale Catholic Competition Nov. 22 By: cc6th 11/25/2003 01:32:03 GMT
Lansdale Catholic Robotics is holding it 6th Annual FLL Competition. It will be held Nov. 22 at Montgomery County Community College. Come test your designs before the state competitions. All participants will get medals. Each team will have 2 practice rounds and 5 competition runs with high score taking all. Cost is $45 per team of 2 coaches and up to 10 students.

For more information send an email to pafwl@aol.com.

  1. Message by: GanonsRoboDevils1463 11/25/2003 01:32:03 GMT
    Congratulations to the RoboWhizards and all of the other teams at the tournament. And thanks to Frank Larkin, Lansdale Catholic, and Montgomery County CC for a great tournament.

    Darrell,
    coach Ganon's RoboDevils


Discussion: How does the tourney work in pa By: dh falcons 11/25/2003 21:11:44 GMT
how do tournaments work in pa

Discussion: How does the tourney work in pa By: dh falcons 11/28/2003 16:49:44 GMT
how do tournaments work in pa

  1. Message by: Robodawgs577 11/28/2003 16:46:37 GMT
    witch one theres sevelal??
    go to www.firstlegoleage.org/calendar.aspx?pid=210
    then chose USA then state PA


    1. Message by: Robodawgs577 11/28/2003 16:49:26 GMT
      witch one there is sevelal??
      go to www.firstlegoleage.org/calendar.aspx?pid=210
      then chose USA then state PA
      theres some info


    2. Message by: Robodawgs577 11/28/2003 16:49:44 GMT
      witch one there is several??
      go to www.firstlegoleage.org/calendar.aspx?pid=210
      then chose USA then state PA
      theres some info



Folder: Programming Questions 01/14/2004 00:05:00 GMT
Use this folder to discuss, comment or ask questions about programming.


Folder: General Programming Questions 01/09/2004 15:18:38 GMT
Please use this folder for general programming questions.

Discussion: Unoficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: Tekno Devils40 01/09/2004 15:18:38 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
year's rule changes.

The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the FAQ at:

http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

Skye Sweeney
fll-freak@comcast.net

  1. Message by: Sindarin148 10/02/2003 22:59:47 GMT
    Hi! My name is Karl Muller, and my 2 sons, Josh (11) and Jake (8), are doing the First Lego League for the first time. We've had a blast building various robots (out of the manuals, with a bit of experimentation) and doing some very basic programming this summer as we familiarized ourselves with the Legos, the robot, the software, etc. We also built the table suggested (93"x45" with shop light), and my sons were very excited to receive the Lego mat and Mars terrain stuff in August.

    My problem or question for anyone out there is this. Do you have any tips on how to help the boys with a robotic arm which they are designing, experimenting, redoing, etc.? They build an arm, figure out how to attach it to their rover bot, and then wonder how to program it to do a task or two - both software questions and design questions - gears, motor for the arm, etc. I don't want to give them too much help, but I also want to enable them to continue the trial-and-error process, and they seem stumped. They'd be happy if they could get an arm to move, and to control its motion. They were able to do so with one of the robots they built from instructions in the manual, but that arm merely "slapped five," and now they'd like to have it do a bit more.

    Just wondering. Thanks for any tips you can pass along.
    Thanks,
    Karl, Josh, and Jake Muller


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/02/2003 23:22:38 GMT
      Karl,

      Please only post in one place. If you use the message center
      feature, you will see all new messages regardless of where
      they were posted.

      It is hard to know where you can help and when you should
      not. It is something I am always thinking about. When you
      say your team is working on a robotic arm, I have a picture
      of a industrial arm with multiple degrees of freedom. If
      this is what they are building, remember KISS (keep it
      simple silly). If you are talking about a simple pivot
      up down arm, there are many examples in books. A good
      bookstore should have several books on LEGO Mindstorms.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: RoboSquad1889 12/01/2003 23:12:32 GMT
      I am having problems loading from the tower to the RCX i have done everything it has told me to but it still does not work


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/01/2003 23:17:17 GMT
        I assume 'it' was the Forum FAQ?

        If you have access to another RCX try that. If you
        have access to another tower try that. If you have
        access to another PC try that.

        Is the green light on the tower comming on?
        What language are you using?
        What type of tower?
        What are the symptoms?

        -Skye


    3. Message by: Legonauts4 12/02/2003 20:44:42 GMT
      We have found that if the tower is dropped the battery disengages and has to be re inserted to get the tower to work again.

      -Dave
      Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


    4. Message by: M.S.3021074 01/09/2004 04:04:20 GMT
      A trainer once showed me how to hook a rotation sensor up to the RCX and a wheel, then roll the unit a certain distance, while the RCX counts off the rotation units in the top screen. I can't figure out how to replicate this. Can anyone help me?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/09/2004 15:18:38 GMT
        The trick is to put a program into the RCX that uses the
        rotation sensor on the port in question. Each sensor has
        a different 'language' it uses to talk to the RCX. So, the
        RCX has to be told what is connected where. The proper
        device drivers are loaded as a program is executed. These
        device drivers then stay installed till a different
        program is run. So...

        1) Write a simple program to instruct the RCX that a
        rotation sensor is connected to say port 1. This program
        need not do anything real. Just perhaps a rotation sensor
        reset.
        2) Run the program.
        3) Use the view button on the RCX to move the carret to
        point to port 1.
        4) The LCD display will now show the rotation sensor value.
        5) Turn off and on the RCX to zero out the value.

        -Skye


Discussion: NQC programming By: KC1191 09/22/2003 22:27:14 GMT
One of our kids is a pretty advanced programmer. When joining the team she found that the programming could be done in Not Quite C -- a very 'C' like language using a generally available compiler. The kid has already been programming in C++ for a year or so.

First, is this legal? I see lots of mentions of the 2 general systems (RIS and Robolab), and we're using RIS for most stuff. Can programming be done and downloaded from a different system altogether?

Second (if #1 is yes) is it a good idea? It seems to me like it will possibly be slower to develop, but you can't beat the flexibility of C. My guess is that we may be able to profit from combining the 2 -- RIS for simpler tasks and NQC for some complex tasks.

Besides, since learning is the real goal it may be a way to expose a few of them to the C language.

Any thoughts? Has anybody done this?

[Edit: 4:09 pm? Somebody's server needs a time set]

  1. Message by: 09/19/2003 17:50:31 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/19/2003 18:23:33 GMT
      NQC is NOT legal. The only legal languages are RIS and Robolab (any version). This is
      directly from the rules. Read the FAQ at http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq for more
      information on the two languages.

      If you want a text based language, look into Mindscripts. It is the backend language for
      RIS. Some people have had good luck with it, others have not.

      Time is GMT as this is a world wide forum server.

      -Skye Sweeney


    2. Message by: Robohawk 2256 09/22/2003 22:27:14 GMT
      Mindscripts is not legal either according to Scott Evans. See
      Mindscripts message .


Discussion: iMAcs OSX By: Blazing Rockets 1532 11/25/2003 15:22:40 GMT
I was just told by a teacher who tried to use mindstorms over the summer, that Robolab is not compatiable with our OSX system. I read over the general programming in FAQ about this, and it stated to use Robolab with Macs. Is anyone aware of this problem and does anyone use an OSX system? If so could you give me guidance. This is our first year and I have no experience with programing.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/19/2003 23:42:48 GMT
    I would call Pitsco-Lego-Dacta and ask this question. If
    they do not know, try the www.ni.com web site. National
    Instruments makes LabView the basis of RoboLab. A call to
    them may give you an answer. Please report back what you
    find so that we can update the FAQ.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 09/20/2003 21:36:02 GMT
      Thanks I will do this Monday during my prep


      1. Message by: craterkids 09/21/2003 08:01:50 GMT
        I was able to test out Robolab 2.5.2 on an OSX iMac today and it installed and ran fine. It did require to be run in Classic mode (OSX automatically switches for you) but I verified that I was able to write a simple program, download it to the RCX via the USB tower and run it on the RCX without any problems. This is by no means an exhaustive test but encouraging nonetheless.

        Give it a shot - I doubt you'll encounter any serious issues.

        =Steve


    2. Message by: Mapcuanun 09/21/2003 20:56:37 GMT
      We have been running on OSX for two years now with no issues using RoboLab. It just needs to open in Classic which happens automatically.

      Marie Hopper
      coach for Mars Rocks and Mapcuanun


    3. Message by: robotsrule1187 10/12/2003 23:13:34 GMT
      Robolab works fine on mac osx, in fact it is much more reliable than when we used a pc.
      coach for Robots Rule


    4. Message by: dh falcons 11/25/2003 15:22:40 GMT
      CHIKENS


Discussion: Windows XP and R.I.S. 2.0 By: Irken Invaders 11/10/2003 03:09:48 GMT
Our team is having problems downloading programs that the kids have written. This is our second year but the first year using Windows XP. Is there a problem with XP? Many thanks.

Coach Mark
Irken Invaders

  1. Message by: a8 09/23/2003 01:29:40 GMT
    I gave up on using windows xp and RIS 2.0. The program was constantly crashing. We're back to an old laptop and mindstorms.
    Coach Deb
    Martian Maniacs


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/23/2003 03:03:09 GMT
      Out of curiosity, did you try forcing windows 98 emulation?
      This will sometimes cure an ill behaved program.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: KC1191 09/23/2003 21:53:37 GMT
      I guess we're lucky. We've been using RIS 2.0 and XP with no problems. Thus far we've done limited programming, but all of the kids have worked through most of the training, lots of downloading, etc.

      All seems to be working well.


    3. Message by: pennichuck864 09/24/2003 21:23:05 GMT
      Our team is running RIS and XP. We haven't seen any unusual problems with this setup yet.


      1. Message by: BoulderBeasts1700 09/24/2003 22:36:33 GMT
        We have tried Robolab and RIS on two machines that run XP. One PC works fine and the other crashes every time you try to program with the USB tower forcing a power cycle to get the PC back. Unfortunately, the PC slated for Robolab is the one that crashes. To get around the problem we have had to dust off an old Pentium II, 120MHz machine running Windows-98.


        1. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 09/30/2003 08:18:15 GMT
          If you have problems with Robolab locking up in Windows XP go to this site for a patch to solve the problem.

          http://www.ceeo.tufts.edu/robolabatceeo/Resources/default.asp

          It has worked great on all the computers we have tried it on.


    4. Message by: Homeschool2568 10/23/2003 13:12:51 GMT
      We have used RIS 2.0 and XP for 2 years. There are a few quirks to watch for. Don't use the "open" command- always go back out to the vault to open a program. Also, if you don't want to see the Lego Launch screen every time you turn on the computer, you will need to download the patch from Lego. Good Luck.


    5. Message by: Brick Busters 10/31/2003 05:21:13 GMT
      My computer went mad when I booted up Mindstorms 2.0 on my Pentium 4 2.4 gig XP. The colors were always beserk, so much so that I couldn't even see the blocks on the program maker. Also, the autorun came up every time the computer booted up, and it automatically changed the colors from 32 bit to 4 bit (which is even stranger since it needs 16 bit). I have no idea why it did this. Finally, even though I had already installed the software for it, every time the computer booted up Hardware Wizard tried to get me to reinstall software for the tower! My dad got so frustrated with the danged program he had to uninstall it. I guess I'll try it on the old Pentium 2 266 MHz ME in the basement. If you have advice, please reply this.

      Brick Busters Programmer/Planner
      Sussex, Wisconsin

      P.S. The program works fine on the Pentium 3 Win 98 at school.


    6. Message by: URC3576 11/10/2003 02:51:28 GMT
      We had problems on both Robolab and RIS on our XP. When we called Tech Support for Robolab it also unintentionally fixed RIS at the same time! I Guess they both had the same problem.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/10/2003 03:09:48 GMT
        And what was that problem? Curious minds want to know!
        -Skye


Discussion: Line following article By: Tekno Devils40 11/25/2003 18:15:44 GMT
An article on Line Following appears in the latest issue of
"Nuts and Volts" magazine. This issue is vol 24 #12 dated
December 2003.

You are unlikely to find this magazine at anything other than
a very good hobbiest electronics store (forget Radio Shack).
But the publisher does has a website at www.nutsvolts.com

For those of you into robotics this magazine is a gem.

-Skye

Discussion: 2004 Languages By: phantoms2126 12/19/2003 15:16:50 GMT
Yes, our state tournament was over almost two hours before my programmers started talking about rumors that there would be a text based programming option available next year.

He would prefer NC. I'd prefer BB since I use it professionally.

Any truth to the rumor?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/09/2003 20:32:44 GMT
    NC = NQC (Not Quite C)?
    BB = VB (Visual Basic)?

    -Skye


    1. Message by: phantoms2127 12/18/2003 17:18:11 GMT
      Yes, sorry.

      NQC and VB (Not Quite C and Visual Basic).


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/18/2003 17:27:55 GMT
        I would very much doubt that rumor. FIRST had a hard
        enough time accepting Mindscripts let alone a more
        complex language. I beleive the issue is that there
        is more CHANCE of adult intervention when the language
        becomes more complex. Using these other languages have
        no benefit to the final operation of the robot. You can
        do anything in Robolab that you can in NQC or VB. I will
        qualify that 'anything' with anything that is appropriate
        to FLL. Writing a VB program to control a robot from an
        algorythm running on a PC is not the autonomous type of
        FLL robot.

        You can of course teach these languages. More power to you.
        But till I see it in writting, I can't beleive FIRST will
        allow these other languages.

        There are other competitions that do use these languages.
        Look into RoboFest at http://www.robofest.net

        -Skye


    2. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 12/19/2003 14:42:53 GMT
      Here is my two cents worth on this subject. Being a new coach this was my first experience with programming and I am sure I am not the only person. To change the language to something more complicated would no doubt knock out a lot of us and intimadate many more like me.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/19/2003 15:16:50 GMT
        Good point.

        -Skye



Folder: Mindscrips questions 12/10/2003 20:03:22 GMT
Please use this folder for Mindscripts specific questions.

Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: Tekno Devils40 09/04/2003 20:15:27 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
year's rule changes.

The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the FAQ at:

http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

Skye Sweeney
fll-freak@comcast.net

Discussion: Battery strength By: ACES1345 11/25/2003 01:35:22 GMT
New to mindscript last year we used RIS but ran into so many problems that I decided to try mindscript. Using the scripted tool you can sent a command brick battery? which returns the battery voltage in milli volts ie I think that reading I took on the brand new batteries was Approxiamtely 9500

What value would indicate the need to change the batteries?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/10/2003 02:20:25 GMT
    Here is a good place for an experiment!

    First, what type of batteries are you using? I am
    assuming you are talking about alkaline not rechargable
    since you talk of replacing the batteries.

    Second, (the experiment part) when does a dying battery
    start to cause YOUR robot in YOUR environment issues? The
    answer will be very different for a tracked as wheeled
    robot. I would have the kids keep track of the power level.
    When they think the power is changing the behavior, use
    that as a guide.

    My own experience is "change early change often" and use
    the old batteries for Game boys, walkmen and the like. This
    is more true the latter in the season we are.

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: Spartans2227 09/10/2003 04:16:56 GMT
      The basic facts on this are that the Brick and motors use a lot of power and that you must strive to make an efficient robot and the program voltage independent.
      I'd say 8.8 I or so would be a low indication, but it depends on the battery.
      The most important thing about this type of test is that you must check while there is a load (motor running etc) All real battery testers use a different load for each type of battery.
      Our research last year said the the titanium batteries held a steady reading the longest. All of the new very expensive batteries made for digital cameras last longer than the merely expensive alkaline As.
      Also relying on time for a planned robot maneuver is not the best practice. Its much more reliable to use a rotation sensor or other feedback since this makes the planned maneuver more independent of the voltage.
      Charlie Affel, mentor Spar tans 2227


      1. Message by: ACES1345 09/11/2003 04:17:05 GMT
        Thanks for the reply. I was not relying on timeing (learned that lesson last year). I just wanted to know when to change the batteries. I think before I put that new set in I had a reading of 6600 or so so I guess they were very fried at that point. Is there a minimum voltage that the RCX needs to keep running?


    2. Message by: cutten1882 09/29/2003 08:47:07 GMT
      I am looking for some advice on using re chargeable batteries. From the research I have done, A re chargeable batteries are 1.2 volts as opposed to 1.5 for alkaline batteries. But rechargeables on a single charge last 2 to 3 times as long as alkaline batteries. So, if you have personal experience with using re chargeable batteries in the RCX I would like to know how well they work compared alkaline batteries. Thanks


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/29/2003 12:52:06 GMT
        I use rechargeables during the season to keep from going
        broke. Towards the end of the season, we switch back to
        alkalines for the extra voltage. Of course we have to
        adjust the magic constants for the new voltage. A friend
        of mine used rechargeables the entire season. His team had
        several perfect scores at the state tourney. They did have
        a moment of panic when after charging the batteries, the
        robot no longer performed properly.

        The short answer is that you can use rechargeables, but you
        must always practice with the batteries in a well known
        state.

        -Skye Sweeney


        1. Message by: GYRO2817 11/11/2003 04:28:08 GMT
          Is there some kind of formula you could apply saying if your batteries are at 8.8 versus 8.1 so your program could be adjusted faster?


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/11/2003 04:52:51 GMT
            Wow! Not that I am aware of.
            Sounds like a great off season research project to me!
            Keep us informed!

            -Skye


            1. Message by: GYRO2817 11/12/2003 02:50:22 GMT
              Thanks we would really appreciate your input on the matter at a later date.


          2. Message by: RoboMonkeys746 11/13/2003 22:03:31 GMT
            Neat concept. You could use the battery level to adjust the motor power levels. For example, when the batteries are

            8.5V <= Vbatt <= 9.0V use power 3
            8.0V <= Vbatt <= 8.5V use power 4
            0V <= Vbatt <= 8.0V use power 5

            There is a Direct Function in RoboLab that returns the battery voltage as well.

            Charlie,
            Coach Robo-Monkeys


            1. Message by: BNI927 11/14/2003 00:24:41 GMT
              do you have any Robolab samples for how to use the Direct functions? I wanted to help our team make a battery level checking tool. I couldn't figure it out. :(

              Thanks in advance.

              Dave April, Coach - Some Assembly Required


              1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 11/24/2003 21:04:41 GMT
                I don't know anything about the "direct functions." However, the attached picture shows a Robolab program that displays the battery level on the LCD. The "battery level icon" is on the same panel in Robolab with all of the motor levels, input/output ports, etc. The "display" icon is in the "RCX Communications" panel. The "3" indicates to show the answer to three decimal points (e.g. 7.561)

                --ken
                Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


                1. Message by: BNI927 11/25/2003 01:35:22 GMT
                  This is great Ken! Thanks very much.

                  Dave
                  Coach - "Some Assembly Required"


            2. Message by: GYRO2817 11/23/2003 02:58:52 GMT
              Can you do this in Mindstorms?


Discussion: About MindScript By: Mit2317 11/27/2003 00:21:58 GMT
What exactly is MindScript? Is it legal in the FLL tournament? What are its advantages? Where can I find information about using it and where can I get it?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/16/2003 00:50:39 GMT
    Mindscripts is what is behind the scenes in RIS. It is
    a text base language similar to a macro assembler. You
    can have full access to all the features of the RCX above
    what RIS provides. I have not used it, but I have heard
    (from those that have) that the learning curve is pretty
    step. The compiler does not give good error messages and
    there may be a few bugs.

    Yes it is legal as it is a part of RIS (but hidden from
    the average person).

    Starting to use it now would probably not make a lot of
    sense. It might be best to start using it in January or
    over the summer.

    My OPINION only. Your mileage may vary.

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: ACES1345 09/16/2003 05:26:03 GMT
      Actually it is not That bad to learn. I have decided that because I had so much trouble with the RIS last year (I lost several meeting due to the not openning files from the File Open if you use myblocks problem and then one of my girls forgot and locked the whole laptop up during their programming interview at franklyn institute)

      Anyhow if you used myblocks you are half the way there.

      I sort of had to look at it last year to recover the my blocks the kids wrote. If you open the .lsc files under the user's vault directory you can see the mindscript that the RIS produces.

      Also working with the scripted.exe took some getting used to. be sure to set the include path. Also the way I downloaded programs was to use the program button (grey) on the RCX to change to the correct slot number and then pressed the download button.

      One nice thing I learned is you can check the battery strength (see my eariler post.)


    2. Message by: Robohawk 2256 09/22/2003 18:29:08 GMT
      I asked about Mindscript, and this is the response from Scott Evans:

      "We took out the express illegalization of MindScript and hacking in general from the Rules, but officially, you're just supposed to use the software in its marketed, intended form. FLL was not designed to teach programming, and hacking below the intended interface is no more allowed than hacking up the LEGO pieces. This way, everybody's working with the same tools, and one team should not be disadvantaged because another team has a computer programmer helping. Coaches/mentors who wish to bend this admittedly unenforceable rule would want to do so in a manner invisible to the tournament judges."

      So, it's use is actually illegal. If you intend to use it, make sure the students don't tell the judges that. They did state it's illegality due to the fact that it would impossible to check every program to tell if it was created by Mindscripts or not.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/22/2003 20:02:26 GMT
        Thanks for this information. I will have to update the
        FAQ. Last year Mindscripts was not on the list, but
        Scott had told someone that it was OK because it was
        a part of RIS. I guess the "times are a changing"!

        So the answer is "No its not legal, but if you want to
        look into it for your own benefit that would be ok. Just
        be prepared to show the judges your working RIS code.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: ACES1345 10/01/2003 04:44:47 GMT
        Now I am really confused!!!!

        "took out the express illegalization of MindScript" This statement would tell me that mindscript is allowed since they took out the express ellegalization it they made it legal.

        2nd last year they expressly said it WAS legal because it WAS part of the RIS system.

        I specifically took steps to use it this year so we could avoid the problems with the KNOWN problems with the RIS interface.

        And also how can you not tell the judge when they want to see your code!!!!


      3. Message by: ACES1345 10/01/2003 05:02:54 GMT
        Isn't there supposed to be some place where scott evan is supposed to publish admendments to the rules? I could not find this on the site but I know it was somewhere here last year.


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/01/2003 05:56:41 GMT
          Yes, there is a
          Q and A page where 2003 Rule Clarifications are being posted. A rule clarification on this issue has not yet made it to the page, but some others have already done so.

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


          1. Message by: Martian Icecap 2257 10/02/2003 22:41:00 GMT
            Actually, it has now been posted to the Q & A:

            [10-1-03] Q: Last year you ruled that MindScript was actually part of MindStorms and said we could use it. Is that still the case this year?

            A: Please use the software in its marketed, intended form. FLL was not designed to teach programming, and hacking below the intended interface is no more allowed than hacking up the LEGO pieces. This way, everybody's working with the same tools, and one team should not be disadvantaged because another team is lucky enough to have help from a computer programmer. Coaches/mentors who bend this rule risk fallout at tournaments.


    3. Message by: Robohawk 2256 09/22/2003 18:30:39 GMT
      Actually, it is NOT legal (read my post below).


    4. Message by: hawks1195 09/22/2003 20:00:48 GMT
      Warning: This message comes from on top of a soapbox.

      The MindScript issue is a perfect platform to clarify what the goals of FIRST are. As coaches, we are expected to teach the teams about engineering and problem solving. Shame on any of us who would instruct our students that they must make sure to keep our 'cheating' secret. If, we do that, then we are teaching them that 'winning at all costs' is more important than good engineering principles such as the supportability of the resulting work. A team with a programming guru that programs their robot with c++ or MindScript is creating a program that might not be supportable by future teams or other team members if the guru is unavailable (this is bad engineering).

      An adult engineer that creates a device with a clever hack that no-one else can fix or troubleshoot, is NOT a good engineer.

      Let's remember what the real goals are and not sell out the long-term benefit of helping create good future engineers for the short-term benefit of being able to say: 'I coached the winning team'.


    5. Message by: Robohawk 2256 09/22/2003 21:47:08 GMT
      I agree with you. I feel that teams should all have an even playing field. Mindscripts does give an advantage. I am sure that there are teams that will continue to use Mindscripts. I am only vaguely familiar with it myself. But it does seem to be a good tool.

      My students seem to prefer RIS for it's ease of use, even though RoboLab allows them to do more.


    6. Message by: pennichuck864 09/23/2003 13:49:28 GMT
      First let me say that I think that FLL is quite well run and is a great program. I appreciate all the efforts of folks such as Scott, and Skye.. Now I'll jump on my soapbox for a bit..

      It seems to me that any arguments about restricting options in order to 'create a level playing field' are just not valid. There are so many factors that contribute to the 'playing field' that it is already filled with hills and potholes.

      At recent competitions I've seen such a wide spectrum of resources devoted to teams. Teams with 3 very fast laptop computers to teams with no laptops at all. Teams with 3 coaches, involved parents and cheering sections to teams with a single confused parent valiently trying to sort all of this stuff out. Teams with multiple RCXs and parts, with pneumatics, complex drive trains, rechargeable batteries, powerpoint. The list of differences between teams goes on and on. It is not a level playing field, there is no way it can be. So when I see statements like 'one team should not be disadvantaged because another team has a computer programmer helping' I bristle a bit. (Maybe it's because I'm a computer programmer by trade ;). Certainly teams with mechanical engineer coaches have building advantages, yet we don't restrict them. Imagine a rule like "no differential drive trains allowed, it's too complicated for some teams to understand". That would be just silly.

      I can understand an argument against non-lego programming environments such as lejos and nqc. This quite consistent with the 'only-official-lego' parts rule. I don't agree with the MindScripts ban though. It is official lego (more so than RoboLab for that matter).

      Perhaps the MindScripts ban comes down to the statement 'FLL was not designed to teach programming'. I am a bit surprised by that, since my team learns quite a bit about programming during FLL. In fact the team probably spends more time programming missions than in any other FLL activity. All of the qualities of a software engineering project are to found in miniature in an FLL mission. So even though it may not be the intention of FLL to teach programming, it certainly does result in kids learning how to program. A robot program is often the first computer program the FLL kids will author in their life.

      All that being said, I think that the RIS and the RoboLab environments are adequate programming environments. Our team will most likely be using RIS and would not consider using a non-graphical environment such as MindScripts or NQC. Nevertheless, I don't understand or agree with the newly imposed MindScripts ban.

      Paul Lamere
      Coach Pennichuck Jr. High
      Nashua


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/23/2003 14:12:28 GMT
        Please be advised that I have no affiliation with FIRST.
        I am just a coach that realllllllly gets into LEGO.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: pennichuck864 09/23/2003 14:36:00 GMT
          Oh yes, I realize that. I still appreciate your efforts.

          Paul


      2. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 09/29/2003 01:13:12 GMT
        Nevertheless, I don't understand or agree with the newly imposed MindScripts ban.

        I agree completely, and with all the other points you made that I didn't copy for brevity. I am very dissappointed to hear about the MindScript ban. Last year it was not listed as an allowed language and Scott Evans specifically clarified the point by saying that MindScript is an integral part of RIS, and therefore is of course allowed.

        We used MindScript last year and were planning on finally not having to change software environments for this season. Based on Scott's clarification of last year, I had no worry about MindScript being disallowed this year, and we have been using it all summer. It will be very dissappointing and unfair to my kids if they aren't allowed to use MindScript this year after all the hard work they put into it.

        I am also totally flabbergastered by the statement that FLL is not trying to teach programming, as if it were a bad or irrelevant thing. FLL is a great vehicle for learning a number of things, with programming being near the top of the list in my opinion. Teaching programming may not be the main point of FLL, but I always thought of it as a side effect that should be (and so far was, I thought) whole heartedly embraced.


    7. Message by: Bremen Botz! 09/23/2003 22:42:53 GMT
      Isn't the Mindscripts package on the same CD that FLL/Dacta sends out with their kits? It is part of the RIS package and therefore should be usable.

      Our team was looking at it as an option this year as our programmers are looking to 'broaden their horizons' a little.

      I am not completely convinced that it gives a real competitive advantage though.

      Our teams have had tremendous success in the past three years using the RIS graphical interface.

      Les Turner
      The Bremen Botz!


    8. Message by: Robohawk 2256 09/24/2003 05:07:12 GMT
      I wouldn't be surprised if it is on the same CD, since it is part of RIS. But the rule states "The Robot must be programmed using LEGO MINDSTORMS Robotics Invention System or RoboLab software (any version)" , not any part.

      I have never used MindScript myself, but the coaches that have used it or NQC say the reason that do is that is gives greater control over variables and greater accuracy.

      If you aren't satisfied with the answer, check with Scott Evans. He may tell you something different. If so, post it here and let the rest of us know. I was planning to learn it myself and teach it to the students until I got the reply from Scott.


    9. Message by: Bartlett Robo Crushers 10/03/2003 18:34:19 GMT
      I too am disappointed that Mindscript will not be allowed this year. I have coached teams for three years using Robolab, then RIS, then Mindscript. I do not buy the comment that it is not the intent to teach programing. At our state tournament the last several years there has been an award specifically for program design. If we are not trying to teach it why are we judging how well the teams do it and giving out an award for it.

      In my opinion mindscript was actually the easiest of the three (Robolab, RIS, Mindscript) for the kids to learn. Let me qualify that by saying we did not use multiple tasks that both control the motors, so we made no use of 'try blocks' or a lot of the more complicated features. What made it easy for the kids was the fact that Mindscript allows you to use any name you want for the sensor on a given port. The following code defines motors on ports A,B, and C and a rotation sensor on input 2:

      output RightMotor on 1
      output Arm on 2
      output LeftMotor on 3

      sensor turns on 2
      turns is rotation as angle

      As you can see, what each motor is used for is self-explainitory. These are the names used throughout the program which makes it much easier to understand the code. After explaining macros to the group for about 20 minutes, one of the seventh-grades wrote a series of about eight macros to make the robot turn right, turn left, go forward, etc. Each of these macros took an input so the robot would turn the motors on until the rotation sensor got to a particular value. Once the other kids had these macros they were able to write a program in a very straight forward way.

      Now you could do a similar thing with My Blocks, but you can't pass a number to a My Block. Also they were encouraged to put comments into the program to indicate the point the robot should be at, at the point in the program (such as 'now back into the corner'. With RIS comments can be used but you have to click on the comment to read it.

      Our programs last year where pretty straightforward to write and we did not run into the squirrely aspects of RIS and Robolab that require one to be knowledgeable of the 'known work-arounds'.

      Here is a complete program from last years competition. Sorry for the length but I thought a complete sample would better prove my point. I defy anyone to tell me that an RIS program, even if you could print it, is easier to understand than what is shown below.

      Our robot had a motor on each side driving a wheel on that side of the robot. A differential added the rotations of the wheels and fed that to a rotation sensor. By knowing which motors were on, and never running them at the same time in opposite directions, you could determine how far you turned and how far you moved forward or backward.

      program LOOPY {
      //defining sensors/motors

      output RightMotor on 1
      output Arm on 2
      output LeftMotor on 3

      sensor turns on 2
      turns is rotation as angle

      // ArmIn has both a light sensor and
      // a touch sensor attached. A value of
      // > 95 means the touch sensor is pressed.
      // To use the light sensor the robot arm must
      // be in a position not pressing the touch
      // sensor.
      sensor ArmIn on 3
      ArmIn is light as percent

      //end defining sensors/motors

      //macros

      macro GoForward {
      forward [LeftMotor RightMotor]
      on [LeftMotor RightMotor]
      }

      macro GoBackward {
      backward [LeftMotor RightMotor]
      on [LeftMotor RightMotor]
      }

      macro TurnLeft {
      off [LeftMotor]
      forward [RightMotor]
      on [RightMotor]
      }

      macro TurnRight {
      off [RightMotor]
      forward [LeftMotor]
      on [LeftMotor]
      }

      macro GoForwardFor(Distance) {
      clear turns
      while turns < Distance {
      GoForward
      }
      off [RightMotor LeftMotor]
      }

      macro GoBackFor(Distance) {
      clear turns
      while turns > Distance {
      GoBackward
      }
      off [RightMotor LeftMotor]
      }

      macro TurnLeftFor(Distance) {
      clear turns
      while turns < Distance {
      TurnLeft
      }
      off [


    10. Message by: 10/03/2003 19:52:35 GMT
      Deleted


    11. Message by: fenderbenders1022 10/07/2003 19:41:14 GMT
      Re: The message above with this in it:

      >The MindScript issue is a perfect platform....
      >A team with a programming guru that programs....
      >An adult engineer that creates....

      I think the problem here is not at all really related to Mindscript. There is an assumption being made that if Mindscript is used, it *must* have been done by an adult as the kids could never do this. This is not necessarily the case. I have a kid on my team who I'm sure could do Mindscript, even though neither I nor any of the other involved adults could.

      Mindscript (which I know nothing about) can't possibly give more of an advantage than many other permissible technologies. Pneumatics give a huge advantage, as do wind-up motors. They are both additional power sources beyond the RCX. Compressed air and a wound spring are functionally equivalent to a battery. They both can be activated and controlled with analog logic, and perform pre-programmed tasks. You can *easily* build a pneumatic limit-switch or motor trip lever from Lego parts, and it will act pretty much exactly like a touch sensor coupled to a motor. It's been done in industry for decades, long before computers were widespread. And this is a perfectly permissible technique. Is it unsportsman like? Not at all. The rules specifically allow it. It is no different than any other bit of specialized knowledge that one team or another might have access to.

      Now, if *I* programmed everything in Mindscript, that would be unsportsmanlike. It's no different than if I built the robot. But if the kids do it, it's a great learning experience, and one that I wouldn't want them deprived of if they wanted to take advantage of it.

      As someone else said, the field *isn't* level. Don't try and force it to be, as that is a losing proposition for everyone.

      Ok, off my soapbox.

      -Jon Gilchrist, Tech Mentor
      FenderBenders, Lake Zurich IL.


    12. Message by: Legonauts4 10/07/2003 20:33:04 GMT
      My experience after using Mindsripts for the last two years is that once the kids see the script and equate the script to the graphics, the kids prefer to write in Mindscripts and leave the graphics behind. The Mindscripts is more understandable than the graphics for most of the kids and the flexibility in naming conventions make the script much more readable. I do believe that you can not allow all languages to be used as most other languages for the RCX require different firmware to be downloaded and this could create unfair advantages to some teams. The languages allowed should be readily available to all participants. You already do not have equality since each of the allowed graphical packages have different versions and not all teams have the latest version. I am not sure but I believe that there is a fee involved to upgrade Robolab to the latest version. I have found that both Robolab and Mindscripts give you control on starting and stopping a task (or watcher) while RIS graphical always enables the task. Mindscripts was a way to overcome this disadvantage in RIS. Now that Mindscripts is not allowed there is an advantage to using Robolab. Not everyone uses watches or multiple tasks in their program, but those that do will need to convert to Robolab in order to enable and disable tasks.

      Dave Kolberg
      Coach Team #4


    13. Message by: Robohawk 2256 10/07/2003 21:09:49 GMT
      OK. I asked Scott Evans about MindScript because I wanted my students to use it. I am not against Mindscript. I just don't want my kids to be at a disadvantage because I tell them they can't, and others still do.

      I would like to see it changed. Maybe if you email Scott and get him to change his mind it might be allowed.


      1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 10/11/2003 15:25:36 GMT
        The case for MindScript was successfully argued to Scott and Lego (this rule actually came from them). It is now allowed, but there is no official support beyond what you can download from the web site. The best support will probably be right here in this forum.

        See the FAQ. It was updated late yesterday (10 October) to allow MindScript.

        I think Scott deserves a lot of credit for being willing to make changes as arguments for them are presented.


    14. Message by: ShootingStars1803 10/08/2003 01:21:31 GMT
      RIS *is* Mindscript. The only difference is the presentation of the program - either via a graphical editor (within RIS) or via a text editor (like ScriptEd or BricxCC). To say that it is illegal to directly write Mindscript is completely wrong and the powers-that-be need to change their ruling on this issue immediately. As has already been stated, there are no restrictions against using complex mechanical designs - ones well beyond any that are "part" of RIS. If teams can benefit from having skilled mechanical engineers then teams ought to be allowed to benefit from having skilled software engineers - and there is no reason to suppose that using Mindscript (or NQC, brickOS, leJOS, or pbForth) is beyond the grasp of the children on a FLL team.


    15. Message by: Robohawk 2256 10/13/2003 16:15:06 GMT
      I agree that is should be allowed. But I have to disagree that the only difference is the presentation of the program. Mindscript does allow other advantages. If it did not, would you really be using it?


      1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 10/14/2003 23:05:31 GMT
        I agree that is should be allowed. But I have to disagree that the only difference is the presentation of the program. Mindscript does allow other advantages. If it did not, would you really be using it?

        Yes. I think it's the best of the programming languages for the kids to learn because it is much more like "real" programming languages.


      2. Message by: GYRO2817 11/23/2003 03:14:06 GMT
        As RIS users,we do not agree with allowing Mindscript as it provide you guys with advantages that we don't have access to ex: checking battery level and ajusting accordingly. That makes a huge difference to teams who can't use that. We've been trying to figure out a way to do this for sometime. Perhaps a ratio of teams that win and are using Mindscript should be done after all the regionals are done.


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/23/2003 04:58:24 GMT
          But using this logic, you would need to ban RoboLab as
          well. RoboLab allows you to access every feature of the
          RCX including battery monitor. The only difference is that
          RoboLab is graphical in nature and sanctioned by FIRST.

          I DO NOT want to get involved in the Mindscripts debate. I
          will leave that up to those that want to go that way to
          take it up with FIRST. But I do think that this paticular
          argument is not valid. The fact the RIS was written without
          these features should be a negative against Mindscripts.

          -Skye


        2. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/27/2003 00:21:58 GMT
          As RIS users,we do not agree with allowing Mindscript as it provide you guys with advantages that we don't have access to ex: checking battery level and ajusting accordingly.

          I don't think it is a "huge" advantage. We are using Mindscript, and have no plans to monitor battery voltage. There are other (better I think) ways around battery level issues than monitoring the battery level and adjusting.

          Second, as Skye already pointed out, RoboLab has the battery voltage feature also.

          Third, if you really feel MindScript is such an advantage, then use it yourselves. You do have access to it since it is freely distributed by Lego.


    16. Message by: Legonauts4 10/15/2003 00:12:49 GMT
      The website to download ScriptEd and other information about the programming language behine RIS is

      http://mindstorms.lego.com/sdk2/default.asp

      The Software Development Kit has manuals on the code and examples of how to use it. The best example is to look at the text file the RIS uses. It is located in the program directory under Users/name/Vault.

      Dave
      Coach #4 & #2605


Discussion: Code size By: loosepieces2340 12/10/2003 20:03:22 GMT
After writing all our missions, we finally loaded all missions (5) and discovered we had run out of program space in the RCX. We have a couple of include files with macro's for navigation etc. From what we have learned, it seem all macro's get inlined. Is it possible to create true subroutine similar to VI's in robolab so the code will be shared.

Thanks
loose pieces

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/30/2003 23:26:14 GMT
    Sub-vis are NOT subroutines. They are inlined as well.
    First I would suggest that you reload the firmware and
    then load your programs one at a time in order. Memory
    can get fragmented to the point you can't load even a
    small program yet you have plenty of room.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: loosepieces2340 12/01/2003 00:42:28 GMT
      thanks skye
      We reloaded the firmware before we posted. After 5 hours we managed to trim it so it fits. But there is very little room left for editing. Do you know if we can use other editors besides ScriptEd (such as BricX).

      Thanks
      The Loose Pieces


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/01/2003 02:00:07 GMT
        From the catagory you posted, I see you are working with
        Mindscripts. I know precious little about this environment.
        I would assume since it is a text based language any ASCII
        editor would OK. But if I remmber right, BrickX is its
        own language and downloader. If that is correct (I am on
        thin ice here) it would not be OK.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: loosepieces2340 12/01/2003 03:01:25 GMT
      It uses the mindscript compiler, (you need the mindscript sdk installed) and the standard firmware. It just has a lot of nice features including limited code completion, select program slot from the IDE, remote control, search/replace and others. At this point, we will probably just stick with scriptEd. Thanks for your reply, and best of luck at your competition.

      loose pieces


    3. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/10/2003 20:03:22 GMT
      I haven't use MindScript (yet), but I've been looking into it recently. With the 2.0 version of the SDK, it looks like you might not be able to use subroutines with an RCX (but it says you can with a Scout). However, there is also a 2.5 version SDK - you might be able to use subroutines on an RCX with that one.

      If you don't have SDK2.5, search for SDK on the LEGO MindStorms web site.

      Dave



Folder: RoboLab questions 01/16/2004 22:08:54 GMT
Please use this folder for RoboLab specific questions.

Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: Tekno Devils40 11/20/2003 20:37:17 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
year's rule changes.

The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the FAQ at:

http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

Skye Sweeney
fll-freak@comcast.net

  1. Message by: robotsrule1187 09/29/2003 01:17:21 GMT
    We are wondering how to navigate this board with a light sensor. We are pretty sure we will need to count lines using containers, but are unsure exactly how to put the program together. Can any one give us some tips please!
    Robots Rule 1187


    1. Message by: Mapcuanun 10/08/2003 03:41:02 GMT
      As long as Skye promises not to laugh! And I'm sure he will correct me if this is incorrect. I'll give it a try.

      The way I explain it to my team - think of containers like the fingers on your hand. Your program tells the robot to "walk" until it sees a dark line. Once it sees the dark line, it holds up one finger (puts one into a container). The process is repeated until you have counted as many fingers as you need.

      Marie Hopper
      a coach who is still learning how to program as well as the kids the third time around


    2. Message by: Roboraptors1742 11/20/2003 20:19:52 GMT
      We actually set some of the team members up as if they were the program. One held a container, and the other beeped when crossing a line. Everytime she beeped we put something in the container until it reached the count specified. It also caused a lot of laughter.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/20/2003 20:37:17 GMT
        Laughter is a good thing!
        This is a great visualization technique. Anything to
        bring the abstract into the concrete is great. Even
        better if they get a case of the giggles.

        -Skye


Discussion: Setting the program slot By: craterkids 12/11/2003 23:43:58 GMT
Our team is using RoboLab this year and one question we have is whether it is possible to specify the program slot number as part of the program. We've found that if you set the program slot before downloading a program then the program will go into that slot. If you don't remember to set the program slot number before pressing the download button then you overwrite another program. This has happened several times when we've had kids working on different programs for the same robot and could very well be an issue if we make any last minute adjustments at a tournament. Does anyone know of way to have the program slot number fixed as part of the program?

Thanks,

Steve

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/17/2003 12:47:06 GMT
    I do not know of a way to do this. You can write a "direct
    mode" program to change the slot, but I do not see a way
    to download a given file in direct mode.

    My team solved this problem with a paper checklist like
    pilots use.

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: craterkids 09/20/2003 05:12:32 GMT
      Thanks Skye. Sometimes low tech solutions are the best way to go!


      1. Message by: BNI927 09/21/2003 07:35:28 GMT
        another idea we would use, along with the checklist like Skye mentioned, is to create an information block at the beginning of the program. We would have it display our team number on the LCD and beep a number of times for the program slot that it was supposed to be running. If we knew we should be running program 4, we expected to hear 4 beeps, for example.


    2. Message by: Robohawk 2256 09/22/2003 22:30:24 GMT
      Another thing to do is to go into settings after a program is saved and successful and lock that program slot. That way you can't write over it accidentally.

      Might be mroe work, but when you have mroe than one programmer, it can be a lifesaver (or more than one team working in the room).


    3. Message by: BotCats29 09/23/2003 16:33:44 GMT
      We are fortunate to have three bricks. We design our robots so that the bricks can be quickly swapped. So each team of kids gets their own brick for testing. When we're ready to finalize everything, we load the necessary programs onto one brick and lock them.

      I like the checklist idea, too.


    4. Message by: Alien Youth 1313 11/12/2003 20:15:55 GMT
      Is it possible to lock all 5 slots in the RCX block using ROBOLAB?


      1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/13/2003 22:38:18 GMT
        No locks for 5 program slot exist that I know of. The lock for the first two slots on initial Robolab set-up protect programs you probably wanted to change anyway.

        If the idea is to prevent stray downloads, I would advise keeping your RCX off when not in use. Preferably, other teams use their programming garages during downloads to prevent stray signals from hitting your robot.

        - Mark Beitz, coach


      2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/11/2003 23:43:58 GMT
        As delivered, Robolab cannot lock all 5 slots. But other
        RCX programs have that ability. This leads me to believe
        that a LASM command must exist to lock a slot. If this is
        the case, then a 'Direct Mode' Robolab program that uses the
        LASM icon might be possible to lock and unlock an RCX.

        This sounds like a fun challenge for the spring.

        -Skye


Discussion: Camera By: Mapcuanun 12/16/2003 02:20:38 GMT
Has anyone ever used the lego camera with RoboLab? Any suggestions on how to start figuring out how to make a movie with the lego cam?
Thanks!

Marie Hopper
coach for Mars Rocks and Mapcuanun

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/21/2003 22:02:07 GMT
    Not with RoboLab, but we do use the Speilberg software.
    You can also find other software that will allow you
    to make or edit movies. Do a search on "stop action
    animation" for possible software packages. I know you are
    a Mac user, but you can try MovieMaker under XP. I tried
    that last night and had problem configuring it. Will
    keep trying tonight after I go look for a new car to hold
    all my LEGO!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: strangers2530 12/16/2003 02:20:38 GMT
      In the tools menu of the Robolab software you use vision center.


Discussion: Using the light sensor on the Mars mat By: Tekno Devils40 01/15/2004 21:22:20 GMT
Moving this question to its own discussion....

"We are wondering how to navigate this board with a light sensor. We are pretty sure we will need to count lines using containers, but are unsure exactly how to put the program together. Can any one give us some tips please!
Robots Rule 1187"

A simple solution.
Drive forard till I see black.
Continue forward till I see not black.
Stop. Ok, I have gone one line forward.
Drive forard till I see black.
Continue forward till I see not black.
Stop. Ok, I have gone Two lines forward.
Drive forard till I see black.
Continue forward till I see not black.
Stop. Ok, I have gone three lines forward.

Perhaps you see a pattern?

-Skye "one little piggy, two little piggies,..." Sweeney

  1. Message by: RoboMatrix675 10/11/2003 19:48:48 GMT
    Hi. Our team was experimenting with the light sensor. It was having trouble reading the lines correctly because of the black spots on the craters. So sometimes it would go three lines and another time it would go four... depending on the crater pattern it travelled over. I could see that maneuvering the table using the light sensor could be like going through a maze... are we doing this correctly?


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/12/2003 15:58:38 GMT
      You are having the same problems many of us are having.
      Just remember that the black lines accross the table are
      THICK!

      -Skye


    2. Message by: BlueWizards221 10/26/2003 18:58:33 GMT
      Also take in mind that the board is made up of orange and black, it might be hard to use the light sensor.
      Blue Wizards


    3. Message by: EagleEngineers2125 10/29/2003 17:03:14 GMT
      How do you make the robot go for hundredths of a second? I know the icon n/100 but how do you designate what n is?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/29/2003 19:08:04 GMT
        You need to place a blue numeric box next the the icon.
        You can find the box on the Modifiers menu. Now use the
        text tool to put a number into the box. Lastly, wire
        the box to the number input on the wait n/100 icon.

        -Skye


    4. Message by: 10/30/2003 01:22:42 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: Space Cowboys 11/01/2003 19:53:52 GMT
      Hi we are having some problems making a SubVI to follow the right side of the thick line. Does anyone have any
      suggestions :)


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/01/2003 20:00:45 GMT
        You can follow the left but not the right?

        You should be able to simply reverse your actions to
        follow the other edge!

        -Skye Sweeney


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 11/02/2003 02:40:33 GMT
        In order to follow the right side of a thick line, you want to have the robot turn towards the left if the light sensor reads a relatively light value, and towards the right if the light sensor reads a relatively dark value. Getting the algorithm to work reliably requires a fair bit of experimentation. The "right answer" depends a lot on the design of the team's robot. The speed of the robot, speed of the turns, position of the light sensor, and sensor values used in the algorithm all affect how the algorithm works. Experiment with changing all of the above to see how the robot behavior changes.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    6. Message by: jqus3343 11/08/2003 03:39:02 GMT
      I am new to First League. I am having a terrible time using the light sensor just on the black thick lines- I am working with sixth graders and figuring out a program that we can create using the light sensor appears to us as an impossible task. there seems to be too little contrast between the craters and the thick lines. It appears that some people are not having any trouble who have mailed to this site but my students can't find a way to make the light sensor only count the thick lines. Please give us some guidelines or sites to get us at least started so that we are not just spinning our wheels-(literally and figuratively!) thanks in advance for any help. JQUS


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/08/2003 03:46:51 GMT
        This year's mat is indeed much more difficult to master
        than previous years. The contrast is less. The variation
        between light sensor values is just one or two counts.
        So, you need to remove as many enviromental changes as
        possible. Correcting for ambient light must be your
        number 1 priority. Variations in light sensor values due
        to shadows may be twice the difference between red and
        black! Solve this problem, at the light sensor becomes
        useful.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: GYRO2817 11/11/2003 04:37:19 GMT
        It depends what line you want to follow. We found that if you vary the distance between the light sensor and the mat it will help the robot find one of the black line. What we're concerned with since it's also our first time is the amount of light there will be on the competition table at the tournament and how much time it will take us to adjust our values.


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/11/2003 04:57:29 GMT
          What you are worried about (properly) is the ambient light
          issue. This can be fairly traumatic to new teams. They have
          their robot working great under normal room lights at home
          and then show up for competition under gazillion watt
          sodium vapor gym lights AND the overhead florecense. Nothing
          works.

          You have lots of alternatives. A simple on that is used is
          to visit each of the competition tables before the competition
          and record light sensor values. Either reprogram the robot
          for each table or choose a set that will work on all tables.

          But there are better ways to solve the problem!

          -Skye


          1. Message by: Mapcuanun 11/11/2003 23:57:25 GMT
            Another issue that can arise with the light sensor is shadows. At our state tournament last year, they did not use the "official" table lights and instead relied on spots hung way overhead. A team that was relying on their light sensor had to do some pretty tricky last minute fixes to accommodate the funky shadows this lighting created. They were also granted permission to always run on the same table since the other tables had even worse shadow problems.

            Since light sensors still baffle me, the coach, I'm not much help to my team! One of my teams did quite a bit of experimenting with the light sensor (doing things well beyond my skills!) and finally chose to use other means of navigating the table. However, they did save their light experiments and plan to demonstrate them at the techinical interview (their idea - not mine).

            Oh to be as smart as these kids!!

            Marie
            coach of Mapcuanun and Mars Rocks


            1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/12/2003 00:28:40 GMT
              Marie,

              You should point your team to my home web page to read the
              science project Jonathan Gray did called "Toeing the Line".
              Not quite what they are doing, but close and may give them
              some ideas.

              http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net

              PS: I don't buy this "I'm not smart stuff". You managed to
              survive to adulthood! But then again, you are coaching two
              teams!

              -Skye


    7. Message by: Bedford Broncobots 11/22/2003 03:09:45 GMT
      To desinate N, you must add a numerical value like you would for rotation count uner the modifiers tab on robolab.


    8. Message by: psychopirates3128 01/15/2004 21:22:20 GMT
      Solution: no light sensor.
      You can use a rotation sensor to get you to the same place just as well. (or better) I hope next year's board will be a little more light sensor compatible...


Discussion: Robolab problems By: Mars Defenders 301 12/10/2003 21:42:37 GMT
Use this discussion to suggest solutions to Robolab computer interaction problems.

  1. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 09/30/2003 08:10:05 GMT
    If you have problems with Robolab locking up in Windows XP go to this site for a patch to solve the problem.

    http://www.ceeo.tufts.edu/robolabatceeo/Resources/default.asp


    1. Message by: Reading2685 10/01/2003 06:16:42 GMT
      Has anyone out there gotten RoboLab to behave well under classic in OS X?


      1. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 10/01/2003 22:23:15 GMT
        Yes, at first we were having a lot of difficulty installing and getting it to run. Appletalk kept turning back on, even after I set the default to stay off. I finally asked to have the computer taken off the server and this cleared up all of our problems.
        I hope this helps
        Debbie


      2. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 10/01/2003 22:30:04 GMT
        I just remembered, you might also want to look under general programming in this section where other OSX users answered my questions in the beginning. They had a lot of good advice.
        Debbie


    2. Message by: Brick-ineers2613 10/10/2003 04:07:37 GMT
      We can not transmit to our RCX in the training programs, script error. Using Robolab 2.5.3 with WinXP. Works fine with programs we create, just wondering if thisis a bug.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/10/2003 04:18:17 GMT
        Please be more detailed in what you are doing and what
        errors you are getting. We can try to help but only if
        we fully understand the problem.

        What are you calling a "training program" and what does
        the error say?

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 10/10/2003 04:53:06 GMT
        I had this same problem when I first installed RoboLab on WinXP. The problem is that when you run the Training Missions (which are a LEGO-exclusive addition to the LabView/RoboLab software), when the script has you download the program to the RCX, you get a "script error" message.

        The way to fix it is to add the \RoboLab\Engine directory to your PATH environment variable. Restart RoboLab and reenter the Training Missions and it should work.

        I don't know if this is an oversight, or if it's a bug/anomoly on Windows XP that the directory doesn't get added to the PATH on installation.

        - Scott


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/10/2003 12:51:29 GMT
          Strange. I run RoboLab on XP and have not had any problems.
          But, I will add it as a topic to the FAQ.

          -Skye


      3. Message by: team saints 10/10/2003 14:25:34 GMT
        I had the same problem too. Unable to download during the Robolab Training missions (only Robolab 2.5.3 has training missions.) There are two ways to overcome this problem. The simplest way I did was to install an old version of Robolab (2.5.2 or lower) first, then install Robolab 2.5.3. For your problem, you will have to uninstall Robolab 2.5.3 first, then install 2.5.2, then install 2.5.3. Got it?


    3. Message by: smush713 10/19/2003 04:15:35 GMT
      Hi

      The robolab software installed has no way of programming using the rotation sensor; does the challenge kit come with additional software to install? In the functions palette, only touch and light sensor are shown to pick up

      Thanks


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/19/2003 15:03:59 GMT
        RoboLab is a 'leveled' software. More goodies are introduced
        at each new level. Only when you get to level 5 is the
        rotation sensor introduced. Try creating a new program using
        Inventor Level 4. That should solve your problem.

        -Skye


    4. Message by: Eagles149 10/22/2003 02:53:04 GMT
      Level 5? I think maybe I am missing something. Where do I find level 5 in Inventor? Any suggestions on how to get to use the rotation sensor is greatly appreciated.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/22/2003 03:56:03 GMT
        Are you sure you are using Robolab and not RIS? The splash
        screen for RIS has a bunch of tumbling bricks. The one
        for RoboLab has a black and electric blue RoboLab logo.

        If you are using Robolab, after you start it you will get
        a page that allows you to select or create a new Inventor
        or Pilot program. Under inventor pick level 4 (I was wrong,
        there are only four levels). You will have full access to
        the rotation sensor and a gazillion other things.

        If you are using RIS, go under options and activate the
        rotation sensor. Since a rotation sensor does not come
        with the toy store version of a Mindstorm kit, LEGO made
        the rotation sensor you had to turn on to prevent confusion.

        I think the FAQ address this issue.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Dragons901 11/19/2003 00:53:59 GMT
        I think it only goes up to level 4.
        For the rotation senser you just put the motors you want to count the rotations for before the rotation sensor. Connect a numeric constant to the rotation senser. The number in the numeric constant box is a 16th of a rotaion. So if you put 16 in the numeric constant box, it will only go 1 full rotation.


    5. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/27/2003 22:57:10 GMT
      This is our first year and we thought we were doing something wrong, but we were given a broken tower!!!!!! So I think you should try that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    6. Message by: Bushwackers678 12/10/2003 01:27:29 GMT
      My students have on several occaisions saved a program in Robolab and then when they try to reopen it later they get the following message. "The file "X".vi is not a VI. Select another?"

      Any suggestions in opening these files and/or making sure this doesn't happen again?

      Thanks,
      Illegal Aliens and the Mars Bars


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/10/2003 04:50:21 GMT
        I would run a diskscan program on your computer! Sounds
        like the files you saved got corrupted. Either you are
        not properly saving the programs before powering down the
        computer, or the file is not properly being stored to disk.

        When this happens did your computer freeze in the past?

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Bushwackers678 12/10/2003 21:42:37 GMT
          Ok thanks. The files had been stored on the server, but we copied them to the laptop's C drive for the contest. Fortunately at the contest they did open. The team made some modifications at the contest but now they won't open.

          No the computer did not freeze up. I am wondering if maybe the students didn't save correctly.

          kirk


Discussion: the light sensor and the thin lines By: Happy Fun Time 788 11/06/2003 17:56:27 GMT
Has anyone made good use of the thin lines on the mat? We've been having such trouble with the light sensor on this year's red mat that I don't know if will be possible to detect a difference between the thin lines and the craters. I was even lost on the thick lines until I saw Skye Sweeney's post reminding us that the lines are THICK! (Thanks, Skye, for the hint!) So what's a team to do with the thin lines??

Laura

  1. Message by: team saints 10/24/2003 08:26:16 GMT
    The thin lines can only be detected (consistently) if your light sensor is pointing at its lowest position possible on the robot (almost touching the playing mat). You will also notice that the sensor will detect all the black irregular markings on the playing mat as well. If your light sensor is higher, the thin lines can be detected only if the sensor is moving parallel to the lines.


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/27/2003 22:52:01 GMT
      Thanks for the information. We need some more information on the light sensors.


    2. Message by: Reid Robotics 11/06/2003 17:56:27 GMT
      Our team is not having trouble with the light sensors.


Discussion: 15 Loop Limit By: redplanetrangers1296 11/20/2003 06:20:13 GMT
When using robolab, looping infinitely, or even looping a large finite amount, is impossible. This is a severe problem when attempting to constantly perform a mathamatical equation. If anyone has a way around this problem please let me know.

  1. Message by: Marsorbust2765 10/30/2003 03:14:42 GMT
    If the 255 loop limit is not nough for your purposes you can tell the loop to loop by putting an open loop command then another then the inside of your loop then 2 closes. This will produce (outside*inside) asmount of loops. up to 255*255, if this is still not enough you csn repeat with 3 or more loops.


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/30/2003 20:53:39 GMT
      Red Planet Rangers:

      Mars or bust has a good suggestion for loops with "big counts." Also, a standard loop construct in Robolab is an infinite loop if a "count" is not connected to it.

      Another option is to use a pair of "jump/land" arrows to produce an infinite loop.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: redplanetrangers1296 11/19/2003 22:34:03 GMT
        Dear Mindstorms Mayhem,
        Your jump/land suggestion is a good idea, but doesn't work. When you download a program with this in it, a message pops up telling you there is a 15 loop limit.

        Thanks,

        Red Planet Rangers


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 11/20/2003 06:16:17 GMT
          Red Planet Rangers:

          Hmm. I believe you, but I have never seen that message before. I just made a little "infinite loop test" in Robolab by connecting the following icons in sequence:


          1. Green Start Light

          2. Red Land

          3. Motor A forward

          4. Motor C forward

          5. Wait for 50/100 of a second(N/100 with 50 attached)

          6. Motor A backward

          7. Motor C backward

          8. Wait for 50/100 of a second(N/100 with 50 attached)

          9. Red Jump

          10. Red Stop Light



          The above program makes the robot go forward and back for a half second each, and infinitely repeat that sequence. The program downloaded A-OK, and has been running for the entire time that I've been typing in this message (currently 2 minutes and 10 seconds, and counting.)

          I wonder if there is a bug / limitation in your version of Robolab? What version of Robolab are you using? I am using Robolab 2.5, patched to version 2.5.3.

          What firmware version is in your RCX? Mine has 03.01/03.28 in it. (This is checked in the "Administrator Screen of Robolab, under the "RCX Settings" tab.)

          Have any of the Robolab experts out there ever heard of a 15 loop limit of some sort?

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem.

          PS: Robot still going strong... now 3 minutes 30 seconds... I better turn it off before I have to replace the batteries...


Discussion: Fork Splits By: Mapcuanun 11/19/2003 00:46:43 GMT


  1. Message by: Mapcuanun 11/01/2003 00:38:19 GMT
    Ok....here's the situation. A couple of the kids were working on a fairly complex program (meaning their coach barely understands it!). At one point, they put in a fork split with one fork allowing the robot to continue moving forward and the other fork moving an attachment. Suddenly the robot stopped going as far as it had been before adding this fork idea. They tested all kinds of things - changing the rotation counts, etc... The robot always stopped in exactly the same place, which can be great, but it wasn't where they wanted it to be.

    SO.....they called me over to help. After much pondering and looking like I knew what I was talking about, I suddenly remembered this same thing happening last year. I asked myself "What would Skye do?" I suggested that they put in a pause lasting as long as the time it takes for the robot to reach its destination. It worked!

    So the question they now have is: Since this is only 1/2 of the total program needed to complete this particular task, do they need to add a pause on that fork for as long as the remaining program lasts? Or is there a prettier way to do this? Also, if they then need to use this attachment again, can they use it in the moving forward fork or must it continue in its own fork?

    Thanks!

    Marie


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/01/2003 01:58:47 GMT
      Good Grief! I am being quote!

      Marie, not sure I fully understand, but if you send the
      the file I can give you some guidance. I will even sign
      a non-disclosure-agreement if you want!

      Working with forks is perhaps the hardest type of programing
      there is. I can't tell you how many times at work a
      problem has come down to two branches fighting over the
      same resource. Your best bet is to have each branch control
      only items the other branch does not. Like one branch is
      for locomotion motors and the other for actuator.
      Coordination between the two is now your remaining problem.

      One method is to have one thread be your master thread. It
      controls the other thread by setting a value in a container.
      So the main thread is doing navigation needs to move the
      actuator up. It set a container to +1. The other thread
      sees the +1 (its running in an infinite loop) and turns
      on the actuator motor fwd. Later the main thread wants to
      stop the motor so it sets the container to 0. Again the
      other thread (knows as the background thread) sees the 0
      and stops the motor. Set the container to -1 and the motor
      could go in reverse.

      What you have is a system that only the main thread talks to
      the locomotion motors and the background only talks to the
      actuator motor.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/02/2003 05:12:35 GMT
      Marie, I'd be willing to bet that the shorter branch in the fork split has an 'A-B-C' stop in it, which is doing a great job of stopping all of the motors programmed in both branches when the shorter branch reaches the 'A-B-C' stop.

      - Mark Beitz, coach


    3. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/03/2003 22:01:56 GMT
      hiiiiiiiiiii.Sorry cant awnser. bye


      1. Message by: Dragons901 11/19/2003 00:44:51 GMT
        hey isn't it cool DUDES of Chicago. D-U-D-E-S. NOT D-U-D-S.


    4. Message by: 11/19/2003 00:42:17 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: Dragons901 11/19/2003 00:46:43 GMT
      Isn't it a task split? I don't really get your dillema. We have some good programmers in our team. Maybe you could send us a copy of the program.


Discussion: event modifiers By: URC3576 11/08/2003 00:46:23 GMT
How do you use event modifiers? I need to know all about them.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/06/2003 23:31:59 GMT
    Wow, this is certainly a big chunk to bite off and chew!

    Events in Robolab are 'similar' to Interrupt routines in
    other languages. When something happens (the 'event') the
    code does not continue with its next instruction but rather
    is forced to jump to some other location in the code. I have
    used them once to see if they were worth trying to teach to
    my team. My opinion is that they are a wee bit too complicated
    for the 11-13 year olds I have. Perhaps next year, but then
    again we do very well without them. And KISS is our working
    motto.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: URC3576 11/08/2003 00:44:58 GMT
      Thanks for the help. The PDF that came with Robolab has some very simple but not too helpful info on this. It's on the Robolab CD it self so you may have to browse to find it.


Discussion: Can you change a program to a differnet language? By: URC3576 01/16/2004 22:08:54 GMT
Is it allowed and possible to write a program in one programing languge and then transfer it to a different programing language?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/08/2003 01:57:51 GMT
    Stick to Robolab or RIS (and yes, Mindscrips). What you are
    talking about is a cross-compiler and is well out of the
    league (no pun intended) of an FLL team.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/12/2003 23:17:25 GMT
      Is it allowed and possible to write a program in one programing languge and then transfer it to a different programing language?

      Possible, yes. However, there are only three legal languages for FLL: RIS, Robolab, and Mindscript. RIS actually produces Mindscript internally so converting from RIS to Mindscript is easy. Doing any of the other 5 possible conversions would be difficult and would require detailed information on the file formats.

      If you mean converting between some other language and say, for example, Mindscript, I think that would not be in the spirit of the rules. I'm not sure a preprocessor is technically illegal if you then show the resulting Mindscript code to the judges, but I think it violates the intent of the rules at least.


    2. Message by: psychopirates3128 01/16/2004 22:08:54 GMT
      If you are talking about computer languages like Java2, C#, or visual BAISC, they are not allowed.
      How would you do that anyway???


Discussion: programing the Scout By: URC3576 11/10/2003 23:32:47 GMT
I know you can't use the Scout in the tournement but how do you program the Scout in Robolab?

  1. Message by: Marsorbust2765 11/10/2003 23:32:47 GMT
    You can't program the scout in robolab, the scout has a few commands stored in it that can be combined to make simple programs. The IR port is for communication with an RCX


Discussion: Subroutines in Robolab By: Legots 12/16/2003 02:27:36 GMT
This folder contains questions specific to handling of subroutines in Robolab software.

  1. Message by: Legots 11/10/2003 20:00:34 GMT
    Does Robolab software support nesting of subroutines (i.e. can you call a subroutine from another subroutine)?

    It seems like it does not, but we may be doing something wrong.


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/10/2003 20:09:05 GMT
      In fact it is the firmware that does not support nesting
      of subroutines. It is not a limitation of RIS or Robolab.
      The trouble with nesting is that you need more and more
      stack space to push the return addresses onto. The RCX just
      does not have those resources.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 22:06:41 GMT
      ahhh??? Oh yeah


    3. Message by: Happy Fun Time 788 11/24/2003 22:44:25 GMT
      We have many sub-vi's that we have created using containers
      to pass values from the main program to the subroutine.
      I've since learned that you can instead set up your
      sub-vi's to have real "arguments" if you select only the
      icons and not the modifiers when creating the sub-vi. I'd
      like to convert all our sub-vi's to use the real arguments
      (so the main programs look cleaner). I can't find a way of
      inserting a numeric argument into an existing sub-vi.
      Anyone know how to do that?

      Thanks,
      Laura


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/24/2003 22:47:59 GMT
        It is possible but rather convoluted. You might be better
        of starting from scratch. If you want to try, go back and
        look in last year's forum. A whole thread was devoted to
        this subject.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Happy Fun Time 788 11/24/2003 22:51:59 GMT
          Thanks for the very fast reply. I will probably re-code
          all the sub-vi's as most of them are small.

          By the way, how does one access last year's forum?

          Laura


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/24/2003 22:58:06 GMT
            From the top level, jump into archive rather than the
            North America folder. Or just just using this link:
            http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?13@@.ee947cc

            -Skye


    4. Message by: Happy Fun Time 788 11/24/2003 22:48:05 GMT
      Can your sub-vi's have more than one argument? If so,
      how do you attach more than one numeric modifier to the
      sub-vi call in the main program so that the sub-vi gets
      the right one in the right argument?

      Thanks again,
      Laura
      Coach of the 'Happy Fun Time' Lemmings


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/24/2003 22:55:17 GMT
        Let us asume you have written a dummy program that does what
        you want your sub-vi to do. Place the arguments for the
        sub-vi well away from the other icons. These could be
        time, power level, light sensor values, etc. Make sure you
        give each of the numeric parameters a good name.

        Now drag a selection box around the icons that you want to
        compress. Exclude the numeric parameters that you wish to
        pass in as arguments. Now select the 'create sub-vi' menu
        item. POOF! All the icons you selected get compressed into
        a new sub-vi. You wil see all the numeric values attaching
        to the sub-vi each with their own hot-spot. Each hot spot
        will have a little pop-up that has the name you gave that
        parameter. The popups will now allow the programmer using
        the sub-vi to know what is what.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Happy Fun Time 788 11/24/2003 23:32:38 GMT
          Thank you, that worked! I didn't understand how you meant
          to give the parameters a name in the main program before
          creating the sub-vi, but it didn't matter. (A text label
          next to the modifier didn't seem to work.) In the new
          sub-vi, the parameters were labeled "numeric" and
          "numeric2", and you get a pop-up for "numeric" and
          "numeric2" in your main program when you select "wire
          icons" and run the mouse over the sub-vi icon.

          So then I can label the modifiers in the sub-vi to match.

          Much appreciated!
          Laura


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/24/2003 23:34:44 GMT
            You can still salvage your work. Simply go into the sub-vi
            and change the names using the text tool.

            -Skye


            1. Message by: Happy Fun Time 788 11/24/2003 23:44:53 GMT
              Cool! That updated the names shown in the main program
              for wiring. I'm all set!

              Laura


            2. Message by: BNI927 11/25/2003 01:42:24 GMT
              Skye -

              Are you saying there is a way, when creating a subVI to have it prepoulated with our custom parameter label? Like Laura, I thought we had to go into the newly created subVI and relabel "Numeric1", "Numeric2" etc.

              Also, I notice that the subVI always gets created with the begin/end terminals labelled backwards (begin is "End" and end is "Begin"). I found that you can also edit those (in the initial window, not the diagram window) but is it possible to have them also created in the correct order?

              Dave April
              Coach - Some Assembly Required


              1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/25/2003 04:41:08 GMT
                Yes you can change the names of the parameters before
                converting icons into a sub-vi. Not sure it is any faster
                or easier than just making the sub-vi and then going back
                and tweeking the names. But in the interest of full disclosure:

                Cluster your icons to be sub-vi-ed together. Place the
                arguments at a distance. This makes it easy to select
                the icons in a sigle selection box.

                Right click on the parameter sources like a numeric constant. Select Visible items then label from the
                popup menus. When you do, a label box will show up
                to the item in question. Some may already have names others
                may not. If they do not, thye will get the "NumericN" type
                name when you sub-vi. Now is your chance to give it an
                interesting name before doing the sub-vi creation.

                (I am now in heaven. My team just saved nearly 45 seconds
                of two missions allowing us to attempt a few more missions.
                Still have three weeks before going to states.....)

                -Skye


    5. Message by: strangers2530 12/16/2003 02:27:36 GMT
      When making the sub-vi for inputing constsnts you have to string up a constant and then right click and then change it to a control. Then it will work


Discussion: Motor Control By: Alien Youth 1313 12/04/2003 21:31:51 GMT
We understand how to stop a motor using ROBOLAB after it has been running. Can you stop a motor without running it so that it "locks" in position without every turning it on?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/12/2003 20:38:33 GMT
    Sure, just use a stop sign icon. Nothing bad will happen
    if the motor is already off!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Alien Youth 1313 11/13/2003 20:10:18 GMT
      Thanks. After further experimentation it appears that the motor is "off" by default when the program starts and that adding the stop sign icon is not necessary. Do you agree with this?

      This next one I posted in a different area, but didn't get a response:

      Can you lock all 5 RCX slots in ROBOLAB? I noticed a toggle switch to lock only two in the administator area of the ROBOLAB software.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/13/2003 20:15:28 GMT
        I think when you first power up an RCX the motors are
        floated not braked. After a program runs that does stop
        the motor, the motor stays stopped even when the program
        ends. Do you understand the difference between stopped and
        floated (yellow stop icon)?

        Do not know if you can lock the other slots from RoboLab.
        If you can it would be buried deep down in the menu structure
        or perhaps you might be forced to submit an LASM command
        directly. Never needed to.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Alien Youth 1313 11/14/2003 03:49:20 GMT
          Thanks for your thoughts on this. I appreciate it. And, yes, I do understand the yellow stop icon.


    2. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/17/2003 22:07:55 GMT
      yes.


    3. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/03/2003 17:03:23 GMT
      I've seen LASM commands in the RoboLab manual, but what are they and what do they do? What does "LASM" stand for?

      Big Green Coach


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/03/2003 17:20:08 GMT
        LASM = LEGO assembler

        LASM really is not a true assembler. It does not generate
        native assembler instructions for the H8 processor. LASM
        does generate byte codes that are interpreted by the
        LEGO firmware. So in a way it is taking human input and
        assembling it into computer goop.

        If in Robolab you start punching down into the icons, you
        will find the lowest level subvi's that put the right
        bytes into a stream that will get downloaded to the RCX.
        RoboLab did provide a way for the truly brave or desperate
        to circumvent their user interface and load command bytes
        directly. Probably not someplace you want to go!

        -Skye


    4. Message by: Little Green Men and Women 1019 12/03/2003 18:15:02 GMT
      Thanks, sounds intriguing! I will meet you there!

      Can you recommend documentation beyond that provided by the RoboLab reference pdf? I'd like to learn how to use the LabView code you can find buried deep within RoboLab's icons. I remember very sparse description of LASM icons, but not much if anything beyond that.

      If done a cursory web search, but haven't found anything useful yet.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/03/2003 18:28:01 GMT
        Sorry. As far as I can tell, the LASM interface was never
        meant to be used by anyone other than the developers. Keep
        me informed. Perhaps we can write that document!

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Legonauts4 12/04/2003 21:31:51 GMT
        There is some documentation about LASM in the Mindstorm SDK 2.0 which can be downloaded at:

        www.mindstorms.lego.com/sdk2/default.asp

        In the kit you will find the LASM Byte Codes.pdf

        -Dave
        Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


Discussion: Motor at Fixed Position Using Rotation Sensor By: Marskateers 11/17/2003 22:09:19 GMT
Hi,

Does anyone know what series of RoboLAB commands are used to set a motor in a fixed position using the angle sensor, while doing other robolab commands. I am having trouble setting a fixed position for one motor, while another motor is operating.

Thanks,

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/13/2003 18:05:16 GMT
    You will need to create a task fork. One path will control
    one motor and the other path the other motor. The RCX will
    execute these commands "at the same time". This will allow
    you to run a feedback loop to position one motor, while
    still doing something else in the other thread.

    This is not simple stuff to do (right Marie?).

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Marskateers 11/13/2003 18:20:51 GMT
      In the part of the task fork of Robolab, that fixes the motor in a position, what motor command and rotation sensor command does one use in conjunction with the rotation sensor to keep a motor fixed at say 90 degrees for example?

      I tried several of the the different angle rotation sensor commands with a motor command, but there are two problems... (1) The motor continues to move 90 degrees. or (2) I can move the motor axle position with my hand. Neither of the motor commands I tried or the angle sensor commands will fix a motor in position, so either (1) i cannot move the motor axle with my hand, or (2) simple hold the motor in a fixed position.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/13/2003 18:41:41 GMT
        Ok, I think I see your problem.

        Lets just say you have a motor as the input to a gear box.
        The output of the box runs slower than the motor. Someplace
        in the gear box you place a rotation sensor. Your goal is
        to keep the output axle at lets say the 12:00 position. But,
        something (besides the motor) is forcing the output axle
        to rotate.

        What you will need is something very similar to a simple
        line following algorithm. If the rotation sensor is more
        than "12:00" turn the motor on forward. If it is less, turn
        the motor on in reverse. If it is "12:00" stop the motor.
        To implement this you need a loop and two conditionals.

        Your problem will be that if you do not have a gearbox, the
        output axle will turn greatly for even the shortest time
        you can turn a motor on than off. This will make the above
        approach oscillate wildly!

        -Skye


    2. Message by: Marskateers 11/13/2003 19:17:07 GMT
      Thanks, Tekno Devils40.


    3. Message by: hawks1195 11/13/2003 22:48:09 GMT
      The other thing to consider is a mechanical design that is self-locking (such as a worm drive). This can provide greater resolution (rotation sensor ticks per degree) and prevents outside forces from being able to twist the output shaft.


    4. Message by: MartianManiacs480 11/17/2003 18:20:14 GMT
      Hello All,

      We have attached the rotation sensor directly to the motor (before applying gear reduction) to get the maximum resolution possible. Yet we are having problems with repeatability - our robot just does not trace the same path over and over - the distance and angle readings vary between plus/minus 5%. This is frustrating to the kids.

      Does anyone have suggestions to eliminate or reduce this erratic behavior of the robot?

      Thanks,

      Martian Maniacs.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/17/2003 18:30:16 GMT
        There is a section on this problem in the FAQ.
        http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

        There are no simple answers, only question to ask yourself.
        I am sure you are short on time right now, but running a
        series of experiments is the best way to go. Start simple.
        Can you have the robot travel straight for 300 ticks and
        end up in the same spot? If not, does the view screen show
        more than 300 ticks? Is it going too far or too short? By
        how much? Is that distance accounted by the number of ticks
        off the view display shows? What is your mathematical best
        accuracy (16 counts per rotation on the sensor, gear train
        ratio, and circumference of the wheel).

        After you figured all that out, switch to making a turn and
        ask yourself all those questions again.

        Sorry, no easy answer to your question.

        -Skye


    5. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/17/2003 22:09:19 GMT
      same here


Discussion: LIMIT TO VARIABLES By: MindStormTroopers1741 12/03/2003 05:44:52 GMT
We have discovered that there is a limit to the number of variables used in our programs. How do you guys solve this?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/19/2003 15:38:19 GMT
    What limit are you up against? The one that you only have
    a few colored variables? If that is your problem, you
    can use the generic variable container and tie a numric
    value to it. The first few numbers 1, 2, 3, 4 correspond
    to the colored variables. But you can use variables
    up to something like 20 without problems. Just be careful.
    The higher variable numbers are special purpose variables.
    They will tell you what iteration your loop is in and other
    intersting things, but using them as a varible could
    have interesting 'side effects'!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/19/2003 22:03:46 GMT
      no coment


    2. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 12/03/2003 04:15:21 GMT
      Oh, We used all the colered variables in the first 20 seconds. We don't even have enough generic variables.


    3. Message by: Happy Fun Time 788 12/03/2003 05:44:52 GMT
      Then you'll just need to figure out how to recode your
      programs to not need so many containers. I think my team
      is only using 4 or 5. They can be reused over and over
      again (provided you didn't need the prior number remembered).

      Also note that you can put parameters on calls to sub-vi's
      instead of using containers to pass in the desired
      number.

      Laura Hall
      Coach of the 'Happy Fun Time' Lemmings


Discussion: short cut? By: Mapcuanun 11/27/2003 00:26:41 GMT
Here's a different one for y'all. Is it possible using the mail features in robolab to have the robot dump its program onto a computer?

Marie Hopper, looking for an easier way than manually copying programs from one system to another (because the other systems don't have email or cd burning capabilities or other such niceties!)

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/20/2003 04:00:22 GMT
    Marie,

    Are you asking if a computer using Robolab can program
    an RCX, then have another computer running Robolab ask the
    RCX to regurgitate it's program back. The second Robolab
    would then take the regurgitated program and convert it
    back into the original program?

    If this is what you asking, the answer would have to be no!
    It might be possible to do the regurgitation trick, but
    what you would end up with is a series of command bytes.
    All the icon position information, how you threaded the
    icons, comments, .... are never sent to the RCX. The
    receiving Robolab would have no way to reconstruct your
    program.

    Do your machines have USB ports? If so, a USB flash memory
    stick would be the way to go. I just purchased one to move
    files between the three non-networked laptops we use.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/22/2003 18:51:38 GMT
      And then there's this old-fashioned technology from the 1980's called floppy disks that allow you to transfer files between older non-networked computers. ;-)

      Several ROBOLAB programs should fit on a floppy disk. I haven't had a year yet where all missions didn't fit on one disk, even in the years that I didn't understand subVIs and, therefore, didn't coach them. If you run into file size limitations, use more floppies.

      It's really a good idea to have the ROBOLAB files on a back-up media such as a disk or a flash card as well. Too much work goes into programming to have a team zapped by a hard drive failure near the end of the season.

      You might also wish to coach things like looking at the dates of files to make sure the most recent file is saved. Incoroporating version numbers into the file names might even be a better idea.

      - Mark Beitz, coach


    2. Message by: Mapcuanun 11/26/2003 00:00:50 GMT
      Oh well....
      Unfortunately we are working on such a mishmash of systems that we can't seem to use one method for all. IE, we are on an older iMac which can read cds but not burn - no good old floppy device either. Another system is a pc that can read floppys but not cds. And finally, the Mac powerbook which can read and burn cds but no floppys. Sigh....

      On the plus side, I discovered that my weaker programmers got a much better grasp of the programs by copying them from one system to the other!

      Marie - always looking for shorcuts!


      1. Message by: ET2491 11/27/2003 00:26:41 GMT
        You can!

        Robolab provides a downloadable LASAM interpreter that copies the program off your RCX. Beware it's beta. :-)

        I think it can be found on this link. http://www.ceeo.tufts.edu/robolabatceeo/Resources/downloads/parselasm.asp


    3. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 11/26/2003 00:24:38 GMT
      Marie, if you have acess to a zipo drive you can down load onto a floopy and open on the mac with a cd burner and then burn your programs. Your problem helped me solve mine! (Also, working on several styles of Macs!)
      Debbie


Discussion: Memory limits? By: MindStormTroopers1741 12/04/2003 02:53:00 GMT
We're already hitting memory limits and aren't done programming yet. Any tips on the best ways to conserve memory?

  1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/28/2003 18:47:32 GMT
    Some
    discussion from last year's forum may be helpful to solve your memory limit issues. The posts were found by searching the work "limit" and limiting the search to the 2002 archive.

    Some items to try from this post would be
    1) downloading firmware to clear any residual memory, then reloading programs "clean,"
    2) making use of internal subroutines and/or subVIs in your programming for repetitive tasks
    3) if you are using jumps in a SubVI or subroutine, watching where the jumps and lands go.

    Some questions:

    Mind Storm Troopers 1741: What are the symptoms making you think you are hitting memory limits?

    Everyone else: Has anyone else learned anything more on Robolab program size limits since last year?

    - Mark Beitz, coach


    1. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 12/02/2003 00:44:36 GMT
      Our program is over 3 feet long in the highest resolution. When we try to download it it says not enough memory. we have tried redownload in the firmwhere several times. Usually the problem goes away after several tries.


    2. Message by: phobodeimoscc294 12/02/2003 18:03:13 GMT
      Hi Mark,

      Here is what our team has done to work within RCX memory limits. They were getting the "not enough memory" problem when down loading to the rcx. This led to research on determining the exact amount of memory in an RCX, and finding a way in robolab to tell them how much was left.

      Next they figured out that using all subvis and no subroutine (a plan they had in place from the beginning to make understanding their programs easier) was using up more space than was available. This resulted in their choosing 8 subvis to be converted to subroutine, which saved memory.

      Another idea that came up after that was to put two loops on one slot, which would then reduce the number of copies of the subroutine that needed to be sent to the rcx (4 instead of 5). Ultimately they decided to use all 5 slots, but one program doesn't use the subroutines, so that slot doesn't need them.

      Hope I'm explaining this clearly, as a coach I'm way far behind what the team is doing in their programming!

      Chris


      1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 12/04/2003 02:45:29 GMT
        Chris, kudos to your programmers! And I really don't think you're that far behind understanding what your team is doing after reading this description.

        Good luck at Wisconsin State -- we'll see you there. And tell your team to tell this story to the technical judges - this is good work in thinking through a problem!

        - Mark


Discussion: Wait for Darker Blues By: MindStormTroopers1741 12/04/2003 20:23:34 GMT
The "Wait for Darker" command in Robolab isn't working for us. The problem is, it samples the light level and waits for a darker value. If it samples a crater, it misses all the other lines. Any suggestions, please?

  1. Message by: Happy Fun Time 788 12/02/2003 23:02:30 GMT
    Here's one idea - use two light sensors and require that
    they both see black in order for it to count as a black
    line.

    Laura Hall
    Coach of the 'Happy Fun Time' Lemmings


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 12/03/2003 21:40:55 GMT
      Hve no idea,buddy


    2. Message by: ilsgreen2170 12/04/2003 20:23:34 GMT
      Consider the "Wait for Dark" command instead of the "Wait for Darker" command. The percentage changes in the "Wait for Darker" command may be problematic. - Mark Beitz, coach


Discussion: Locking the programs in Robolab By: Happy Fun Time 788 12/03/2003 21:46:44 GMT
I think I've seen a suggestion somewhere in these forums (or in
the many FLL mailing lists I'm on :) to lock your programs to
prevent stray IR during competitions. When I looked in Administrator in Robolab, I only saw the ability to lock programs 1 and 2. Am I missing something?

I am running Robolab 2.5.1.

Laura
Coach of the 'Happy Fun Time' Lemmings

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 12/03/2003 00:20:04 GMT
    Laura, the way that the team I coach has "locked" their programs in the past is to physically cover the IR port on the RCX with Lego. When the IR port is covered with Lego, the RCX cannot be programmed. (The only trick is remembering to remove the cover when they actually do want to program it!)

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 12/03/2003 21:46:44 GMT
      i DONT HAVE ANY IDEA



Folder: Robotic Invention System (RIS) Questions 12/08/2003 00:13:41 GMT
Please use this folder for RIS specific questions.


Folder: Program too long 11/12/2003 14:08:41 GMT


Discussion: Program too long By: Brewster527 11/12/2003 14:08:41 GMT
we have created a long program, up to the point that the program did not let us add any more commands. Looking through the 'Help' menu, we noticed that we apparently cannot use more than 16 sensor watch commands (e.g. 'wait until' to check the rotation sensor). Does anyone know a way around this problem ?

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 11/03/2003 19:40:54 GMT
    The watch commands are not the same as the wait until type commands. The watch commands are multi tasking events that will show up as a string of commands connected at the top to the main string of commands. However, programs can become too large for RIS to handle in one string of commands. To overcome this you will need to create two or more stacks of commands. You can use a watch command to do this just watch for a variable to be set and then at the end of the first stack set the variable and the second stack of commands will start executing. You can repeat this with as many stacks as you need (up to sixteen). the only limits are the total amount of memory being used in all the programs and the total number of multiple tasks being run at one time.

    Dave
    Coach #4 & #2605


    1. Message by: thunderbolts-126 11/04/2003 02:03:04 GMT
      We had just run into this problem too. Your solutions is great!

      Laura


    2. Message by: GYRO2817 11/11/2003 04:02:24 GMT
      Is a watch command something like a touch sensor or a light sensor?


      1. Message by: Legonauts4 11/11/2003 15:19:43 GMT
        Yes.

        Dave Kolberg
        Coach Legonauts#4 & Lego People#2605


    3. Message by: GYRO2817 11/12/2003 03:25:47 GMT
      We used 13 Wait Until and 3 stacks and it stops letting us add more. Does that count in the 16 you were talking about? Would this problem occur with Robolab?


      1. Message by: team saints 11/12/2003 14:08:41 GMT
        Here's what you can do. Go to C:\Program Files\LEGO MINDSTORMS\RIS 2.0
        Look for the file called ris.ini
        Right click and edit (or open) the file.
        Change the following settings to the following

        rciMaxUserBlocks = 1000
        rciNodeBlockLimit = 959

        Our team used to have this problem. This will allow you to add a few more codes. Your RIS program is way too long. You should have used Robolab. RIS is good if your program is small. Robolab is better if your program is large because you are able to reuse your code. I suggest you switch to robolab quick.


Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: Tekno Devils40 11/05/2003 21:24:10 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
year's rule changes.

The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the FAQ at:

http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

Skye Sweeney
fll-freak@comcast.net

  1. Message by: Voyager 92 11/05/2003 21:01:25 GMT
    In RIS, can you count lines?


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/05/2003 21:24:10 GMT
      I am not an expert in RIS, but yes you can. They have
      a concept of variables. You can add or sutract from
      your variable each time you sense the light/dark
      transition.

      -Skye


Discussion: RIS SMALL BLOCK CODES By: RoboLions1061 10/19/2003 02:06:06 GMT
My team, the RoboLions, is in Italy and we only compete against teams in Germany. I am a rookie coach, and would like to know if any US team would be willing to send me a few "unique small block" codes that they have designed, other than the traditional turn right or turn left? If so, I can provide my
e-mail address so they can send me the file. It would be greatly appreciated. Since I know FLL promotes teamwork and suchy, I hope at least a few teams would share some small block codes. The RoboLions team is made up of dependents of US military personnel who are stationed in Italy.

Thanks,

Dave Olson
coach, RoboLions

  1. Message by: Wildcats1099 10/03/2003 03:52:31 GMT
    I think you are talking about big blocks, not small blocks. My understanding is that the small blocks can't be changed. They are the basis for all the big blocks, like turn right and turn left. If you open (click on the small square in the top left corner) a big block you will see all the small blocks and other commands that make it work. If you program your own set of commands, you are really making a my block, not a big block.
    That said, we are a rookie team also and haven't come up with any really cool my blocks yet. But I got all the kids to write a short program and make a roverbot do what they wanted it to today! Progress, a little bit at a time.
    Monica


    1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 10/09/2003 02:55:27 GMT
      Most of our code from last year is online at http://bremenrobotics.indiweb.com/

      Go to members only and login as user:guest password:guest

      There you can see the graphics (from RIS 2.0) for our programs and myblocks.

      Les Turner
      The Bremen Botz!


      1. Message by: GYRO2817 10/10/2003 20:34:18 GMT
        Your site is amazing. Thanks. How do get to display the programs on rows with the green line in between? That was very cool.


      2. Message by: GYRO2817 10/10/2003 21:50:38 GMT
        What are the Make positive/negative v distance block?


    2. Message by: Bremen Botz! 10/12/2003 06:14:43 GMT
      We used a program called Paint Shop Pro (about $75) to screen capture the RIS programs a screen at a time and edit them back together. To make them easier to read, we split them into columns to fit on a page, and drew the green lines to connect the columns together. There was a website you could submit your code to and it would return the images, but we did not want to hand our code to someone else until the tournament was over :)

      The Make Positive and Make Negative block take a variable and makes them either positive or negative. This allows the programmers to set a variable called vDistance for the rotation sensor and not have to worry about which direction they are going. (If you go forward the sensor counts up and vDistance would have to be positive, backward counts down with vDistance needing to be negative).

      If you look at our Setup myblock, it establishes all the variables that are used throughout our programs.

      Les Turner
      The Bremen Botz! - 195


      1. Message by: GYRO2817 10/14/2003 06:37:41 GMT
        Thanks for the tip! Do you remember what website it was? I tried a website that was mentionned in the questions and answers from last year but it didn't work. Do you know if any paint program would do the job? Thanks.


    3. Message by: grobots2590 10/19/2003 02:01:16 GMT
      If we find any usefull myblocks we will send you them.

      Matt and Nick


    4. Message by: grobots2590 10/19/2003 02:06:06 GMT
      We have will have a block ready soon so post your rquests for the block soon.


Discussion: robot problems By: Solar Sonics 4077 12/08/2003 00:13:41 GMT
why won't the robot move the wheels?

  1. Message by: Marsorbust2765 10/31/2003 23:21:35 GMT
    I don't know you're exact situation but i can give try to give some suggestions.

    1. Look at how the motor is connected to the wheel. Are all the gears in between the motor and the wheel connected and meshing properly?

    2. Hold your robot up and run it, do the wheels turn? if so you need to change the gear ratio to increase the torque.

    3. Do you know your motors and RCX aren't the problem? Check those wihout any stress.

    4. Are you trying one of your programs? If so make sure that's not the problem. If not you may have to redownload firmware.


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/03/2003 22:04:18 GMT
      there is probably something wrong with the moter


    2. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/03/2003 22:23:06 GMT
      There are many things that could be wrong. it could be the wheels are cloged,it wasn't put together correctly,you have the wrong wheels or several other problems. first you could try the ones listed. if you still have problems call the lego phone # in the the pamphlet given to you. or em-ail us again and we will try to help you as much as we can. its a complicated I roblem that also happend to us. we found out that we had the wrong wheels.i hope this info was useful to you. talk to you soon. Byyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    3. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/03/2003 22:28:14 GMT
      Hi we have a big problem. We just put new batteries in our robot and now it has a picture of a I though a battery!!!! What do we doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


      1. Message by: Firebirds3139 12/08/2003 00:11:40 GMT
        did you leabe it on over night or did you leave any batteries still in there?


        1. Message by: Firebirds3139 12/08/2003 00:13:41 GMT
          our comp is not always working what is the problem like it will not always download the prgram


    4. Message by: mars monkeys on a stick 2026 11/05/2003 02:26:16 GMT
      1) Try looking at the gears.
      2) Try programming the robot.
      3) If the robot is programmed, double check it, incase something happened.
      4) Try new motors.

      Try those, good luck.


    5. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/05/2003 22:02:15 GMT
      Hi.Tell me your problem and what you tried.


    6. Message by: Firebirds3139 12/08/2003 00:07:21 GMT
      sweet


Discussion: emailing saved programs By: Rusty Engineers 11/17/2003 20:59:23 GMT
Can anyone offer assistance in sending saved programs from one computer to another in RIS? During practice we programmed on a desktop but for the events we bring a laptop. We tried to email as an attachment, but the attachment shows up in the email copy as typed text, not as a file I can save in the vault.
Thanks for your help.
Paul Tagher
Coach, Rusty Engineers

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 11/17/2003 17:41:10 GMT
    Since the files are just text files. You can copy the information from the e-mail and past in a text file. Rename the text file name.lsc
    Place in the vault:
    C:\Program Files\LEGO MINDSTORMS\RIS 2.0\users\David\Vault
    Replace David with your login name

    To attach a file to your e-mail can not be answered in this forum, we would need information about which e-mail program you are using. It would be best to contact you e-mail supplier for this.

    -Dave
    Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


    1. Message by: Wildcats1099 11/17/2003 20:59:23 GMT
      You can also transfer the programs from one computer to another using a disk. When you save the program, use save as and select the drive your 3.5 disk or writable cd drive is on, give it a name, and save it. Transfer the disk to the laptop, open RIS, and open a program. Instead of looking in the vault for a program, change the location to your disk drive and you should find your program. Then, resave it in that computer's vault. It's good to have a backup on disk!!
      Theoretically, emailing an attachment should work. You have to save the attachment in the vault, as Dave said, and then open it within RIS. Some email programs show the attachment as a text file in the body of the email, but you can still save the attachment onto your computer without modifying it. Try left clicking on wherever your email displays the information that there is an attachment and see if you get a "save as" option.
      Monica


Discussion: please help programming!!!! By: HolleyBots3289 11/19/2003 19:20:32 GMT
The go light is not wired for an input what do I do to wire the go light. please reply !!

  1. Message by: hawks1195 11/19/2003 19:17:47 GMT
    In Robolab, the Begin Icon (a stop/go light with the green light lit) is what starts your program. There is only one terminal on the Begin Icon. The terminal is labelled 'End' and is meant to be connected with a string to the 'Begin' terminal on another icon. If you press Control-H, and then move the mouse cursor over the Begin Icon, you will see context senstitive help for that Icon.

    I assumed that you were programming in Robolab even though the message is posted in the group for RIS questions. If my assumption is wrong, kindly ignore my response as my RIS is now rusty.

    -Paul Wysocki


Discussion: Printing programs By: Settlers of Mars 1883 12/04/2003 02:49:02 GMT
What is the easiest way to print a hard copy of your programs?

Thanks

  1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 12/04/2003 02:49:02 GMT
    See
    this folder and Skye Sweeney's FAQ site. - Mark Beitz, coach


Discussion: Printing Programs By: Settlers of Mars 1883 12/03/2003 23:51:22 GMT
What is the best way to print a hard copy of your programs?

Thanks

Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: Tekno Devils40 01/14/2004 00:05:00 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
year's rule changes.

The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the FAQ at:

http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

Skye Sweeney
fll-freak@comcast.net

  1. Message by: MississaugaAstronomicalRoboticScientists 10/20/2003 23:52:51 GMT
    Do you recomend use ing small blocks or big blocks


    1. Message by: 01/13/2004 23:38:52 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: TechSavvy741 01/13/2004 23:39:17 GMT
      Small Blocks.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/14/2004 00:05:00 GMT
        Small blocks...?

        -Skye


Discussion: Research Question By: NewGirlsOnTheBlocks 11/20/2003 04:12:29 GMT
This is our team's first year participating in FIRST. I am having problems with the research question (rover Recovery). I am not clear as to what is expected of the final product. What do the judges like?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/25/2003 22:18:51 GMT
    What would YOU want to see? The judges are people just like
    you! Also look at the grading sheet in the back of the
    research paper document. Novelty, intersting solution, good
    strong presentation, eye contact, able to answer questions,
    ...

    -Skye


    1. Message by: blue1721 11/07/2003 03:34:25 GMT
      This is our third year. We structure the presentation based loosely on the scientific method:

      Explain the mission
      General background
      Hypothesis
      Research
      Conclusion
      Additional research

      Each child gets one of these topics. They write a one page report on it. then at the presentation each child reads from their report.


    2. Message by: Club BOB 11/13/2003 08:32:31 GMT
      Keep in mind that the judges will see many presentations throughout the day. See what your team can come up with that is unique and makes their presentation stand out from others.

      By the end of the day the judges will have seen many teams.

      When our kids spoke they did have summary cards with them, just to reference so they didn't forget an important point.

      The judges do like if more than just one team member can answer questions and they also like if it's obvious that not just one kid did all the research.

      Whatever your team comes up with, be sure to practice in advance so the presentation will sound more relaxed and natural.

      Susan


    3. Message by: The Dust Devils1053 11/20/2003 04:12:29 GMT
      Hi I'm Katie from Holmes Middle School, Illinois
      It not what the judges like it's what you can do and can perform well.
      My group is doing a classroom thing where we are giving all our info in a movie and perfroming the "class" in skit form.
      Another group in my school is doing a game show!
      Hope I helped you out!!


Discussion: chanching bateries By: Blaine bat heads 11/04/2003 21:48:16 GMT
do u guys have to reboot ure robot every time u take out the bateries

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/03/2003 22:07:25 GMT
    we are careful and only take one batery and we still have to reboot it


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/03/2003 23:38:12 GMT
      You must remove one battery and replace it with a new
      one in less than 15 seconds. It is possible to do with
      some pre-planning.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/04/2003 21:48:16 GMT
      thanks tekno devils40. I guess we wrent taking the batterys out faster.


Discussion: differencials By: URC3576 11/07/2003 03:04:46 GMT
we tried using a differential to do two tasks but it always does the task with least resistance. How can we make it do both?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/06/2003 02:00:24 GMT
    Normaly the sollution is to put a pawn on the output
    shafts such that they only can rotate in one direction.
    Now this the motor forward, on shaft turns. When the
    motor is in reverse the other shaft turns.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: URC3576 11/06/2003 02:03:27 GMT
      Thanks to you Tekno Devils40 for your help. We put this in the wrong folder by mistake.


    2. Message by: Marskateers 11/06/2003 16:42:18 GMT
      What does a pawn lego piece look like?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/06/2003 17:59:01 GMT
        There is no piece that is a pawn. But many pieces can be
        used for this purpose. A pawn is the part that pushes
        against a gear. When the gear turns one way, the pawn
        bounces out of the way and lets the gear turn. When the
        gear turns the other way, the pawn digs into a gear tooth
        and prevents it from turning. Look in a book on simple
        machines for examples.

        -Skye


    3. Message by: Marskateers 11/06/2003 18:03:33 GMT
      Sky,
      Will you recommend a book on simple machines or an internet website on this topic?

      Thank-you for your help,
      Melanie


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/06/2003 18:09:17 GMT
        Not really. Back in the old days (showing my age) schools
        had libraries with books not just internet connections!
        I would inlist the help of a librarian and ask to be
        shown the section on machines. It should not take long to
        find a simple machine that would show a 'ratchet/pawn'
        type mechanism.

        The other thing you can do is visit a good bookstore that
        has books on Mindstorms. Many of these will detail a
        device that allows an axle to turn one way but not the other.

        Perhaps somebody else has a good reference?

        -Skye


        1. Message by: harris-194 11/06/2003 18:24:55 GMT
          Try this: http://www.usfirst.org/jrobtcs/BLRforFLLV1.0.pdf

          It's HUGE, you'll want to save it to your local system before looking through it. Has an example of a ratchet mechanism. Also has lots of other details and examples.

          Courtney
          Harris-194


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/06/2003 18:27:13 GMT
            Ah yes, the LEGO bible. Forgot all about this.
            This is a must read.

            -Skye


          2. Message by: 11/06/2003 18:42:57 GMT
            Deleted


      2. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/07/2003 03:04:46 GMT
        Another example is in the Constructopedia in the "Top Secret" plans shown at the end. - Mark Beitz, coach


    4. Message by: Marskateers 11/06/2003 18:29:32 GMT
      Thanks to both of you, I found the section 2.5.1 Ratchet Splitter in the web link you offered above.

      -Melanie
      1757


    5. Message by: Red Planet Gladiators702 11/06/2003 21:45:05 GMT
      The gumball dispensor that is one of the tutorial designs with the RIS software uses this mechanism. When the motor turns in one direction some of the gears lock so that the differential turns the conveyor belt. When the motor drives in the other direction the other gears lock and the differential drives a "pusher". Two very different behaviors with one motor.


Discussion: No LapTop By: gca1524 12/02/2003 06:39:26 GMT
We have been using a desktop and have yet to secure a laptop. I was wondering does anyone know if it is possible to use a pda with IR to communicate with the RCX.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/01/2003 13:55:56 GMT
    It is my understanding that the protocol that LEGO used
    is unlike any other protocol. I have seen discussions at
    other web sites about trying to get an IRDA device to
    talk to an RCX. So far no good. I can only assume that you
    will have the same problem with a PDA. What I do not know
    is if you connected your serial tower to the PDA, if anyone
    has written a custom download program. Good place to start
    looking would be at:
    http://www.crynwr.com/lego-robotics/
    or
    http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/

    -Skye


    1. Message by: gca1524 12/02/2003 06:39:26 GMT
      Thanks for the links. I was not aware that the "rabbit hole" ran so deep.


Discussion: Wait for Darker Blues By: MindStormTroopers1741 12/02/2003 23:10:03 GMT
The "Wait for Darker" command in Robolab isn't working for us. The problem is, it samples the light level and waits for a darker value. If it samples a crater, it misses all the other lines. Any suggestions, please?

  1. Message by: Happy Fun Time 788 12/02/2003 23:10:03 GMT
    See answer under Robolab questions.



Folder: Research 02/03/2004 02:01:51 GMT



Folder: Reaserch Question 01/15/2004 21:38:22 GMT
We are having trouble picking our reasearch quaestion help us.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion: The Message above is False By: SMMS 11/07/2003 23:52:58 GMT
We would like to share information with our fellow teams. :)
;)
Team SMMS

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/27/2003 22:45:53 GMT
    what is your team like?


    1. Message by: SMMS 10/29/2003 21:42:50 GMT
      We are great. Team SMMS has great cooperation skills, and doing well in reaserch as well as the missions on the table. For some of our backround, last year we got 1st in creativity, 2nd in Reasearch, and the Judges Award. :)
      I hope we can help each other.

      Team SMMS Connecticut USA


    2. Message by: SMMS 10/29/2003 21:44:05 GMT
      look below for an answer. :)


    3. Message by: wd40s2305 11/07/2003 03:14:37 GMT
      we would like to share as well because some of us will be in FIRST Robotics next year and might see you there.


      1. Message by: SMMS 11/07/2003 23:52:48 GMT
        Are you in the Connectcut compettion? Becuase we are.

        :) ;)


Discussion: Research By: Ares463 01/15/2004 21:38:34 GMT
I can't find any research on the web cite about misson aliance! Can you help us please! Pretty please with sprinkles on top!!

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/11/2003 00:04:21 GMT
    You do not need to look to Mars for information on this.
    Any cooperative project on Earth can be used as a model.
    Think about building the "chunnel", the international
    space station (ever hear the horror stories about metric
    and English units?), or any other project involving more
    than one country. So now apply what you learned to having a
    robot build a house on Mars.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: psychopirates3128 01/15/2004 21:38:22 GMT
      that would be THE BEST horror story *shudder*


Discussion: ice core research By: Marbots 11/20/2003 23:23:31 GMT
If you have any good websites for researchof ice cores, please post them!

  1. Message by: SMMS 10/22/2003 00:46:56 GMT
    have you tried serching on NASA's website and www.google.com. :)

    SMMS USA Connecticut


    1. Message by: 11/03/2003 20:28:02 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: GYRO2817 11/20/2003 23:23:31 GMT
      I have a good site for finding life on mars:
      http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/science/life/


Discussion: REASEARCH ON ROVER RECOVERY INFO NEEDED By: eagles2660 11/06/2003 22:38:32 GMT
If you have any good reasearch could you please write it on here or give the web site http address. Thank you. Eagles

  1. Message by: marsdogs2741 10/23/2003 23:24:12 GMT
    Try http://www.google.com/ and click on advance search. Also try http://www.dogpile.com/ they are both good search engines. I hope this helps. Bye.


    1. Message by: Mars Malows 1614 11/05/2003 23:46:38 GMT
      Does mars path finder move, or just Sojourner, the little rover?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/05/2003 23:56:11 GMT
        The last mission to Mars placed two objects on the surface.
        The Tetrahedron lander and the "little Rover That Could".
        The lander did not locomote, but it did have movable
        appendages for cameras and other sensors.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: 11/06/2003 22:38:32 GMT
          Deleted


Discussion: REASEARCH ON ROVER RECOVERY INFO NEEDED By: eagles2660 10/24/2003 00:40:29 GMT
If you have any good reasearch could you please write it on here or give the web site http address. Thank you. Eagles

  1. Message by: SMMS 10/24/2003 00:40:29 GMT
    I would like our teams to share information. For your question check here http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mer/.
    :)

    Team SMMS Conecticut USA


Discussion: presentation By: HMS Raiders 427 01/15/2004 21:33:31 GMT
How detailed does the research presentation, for that matter, the research need to be? I believe everyone needs to be involved, correct?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/27/2003 19:35:32 GMT
    As detailed as you want. To be considered for an award,
    the research should include many sources. The team should
    be able to answer questions related to the background
    information. As for who needs to be involved, that varies
    team to team. Some have a dedicated research sub team, others
    make it a shared problem. I will say that it does look
    real good to a judge to see the whole team involved in the
    presentation and able to take turns in answering questions.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Red Dragons 1888 10/30/2003 10:14:03 GMT
      As a rookie coach with a rookie team, I, too, am wondering about the research assignment. "Choose one of the missions from the FLL MISSION MARS Challenge . What is an important question related to this mission? What is your design for a robotic expedition to answer this question?" Well, the standard here sounds pretty open to interpretation. Designing a robotic expedition sounds like a doctoral dissertation, but this is a five minute children's research presentation. How detailed should we or can we get? Does anyone have some sample research presentations from last year that did well, so I could get a better idea of what's expected here?

      - Diane


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/30/2003 14:11:53 GMT
        Yes the research project is wide open. Do as much or as
        little as you want. The projects that do well, have a
        good amount of detail and an interesting or novel presentation.

        As for samples, I might be able to find our 2001 Powerpoint
        and out 2002 skit. But seeing those may lead you down the
        wrong path for YOUR team.

        Try to hook up with the science teacher at your school. Bring
        the grading sheet from the back of the research project PDF.
        Have a good chat. That would probably be your best bet.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: FLL Korea 12/08/2003 11:46:50 GMT
          Hi,

          Can I also see some samples of research presentation? My problem is not with the content, but with the way the information is arranged in the document. It doesn't matter whether it's word document, ppt, pdf or whatever.

          In advance, I will love you forever.

          Jay from Korea


    2. Message by: marshamsters2329 10/31/2003 06:33:47 GMT
      I had a rookie team last year, here is what we did for the research/presentation:
      Our team did research on our city - and brainstormed issues that it has. The kids picked an over abundance of geese in the parks and play fields (soccer fields seem to be especially bad). They brainstormed ways a robot could help get the geese out of the parks, and researched ways people do this - they 'designed' a robot that would bark like a dog, and vacuum up the goose droppings - more research - (is a robotic vacuum feasible? - check out Roomba ). For the presentation they did a skit that was a news report showing someone trying to use a park (the reporter gave facts about the number of parks and play fields) but getting chased off by geese. The reporter then talked to the inventor of the robot and he talked about how he came up with the idea (how much does a goose 'drop' in a day?, what techniques do people use to repel them?), and how the robot worked. He started up the 'robot' which chased the geese and cleaned up their mess (the robot was one of the kids, he used a rake and hand held vac to pick up 'droppings' (dryer lint)). All of the kids were involved in the skit, all of them did research into the city, and contributed ideas for using robots to solve the problem. The costumes were pretty simple. We took first place for our presentation, which the kids (and coaches)were really proud of.


      1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/03/2003 22:00:28 GMT
        Thanks for helping us out with your paragraph maybe we can help you if you need help


      2. Message by: HMS Raiders 427 11/05/2003 20:25:32 GMT
        Thanks for the insignt. Your help is invaluable!


    3. Message by: blue1721 11/07/2003 03:37:38 GMT
      This is our third year. We structure the presentation based loosely on the scientific method:

      Explain the mission
      General background
      Hypothesis
      Research
      Conclusion
      Additional research

      Each child gets one of these topics. They write a one page report on it.


    4. Message by: MartianManiacs480 11/11/2003 03:07:03 GMT
      How do we present our reasearch project? DO we go on a stage with everyone watching or is it near our tables while everyone else is doing their turn or waiting etc.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/11/2003 04:08:26 GMT
        It is normaly done in a private room. Just you and the
        judges. You as coach are allowed in. Family, may or may
        not depending on room size.

        At some competitions, the best few presentors are
        asked to perform in front of the full crowd. More for show
        than for score.

        -Skye


    5. Message by: Red Dragons 1888 11/12/2003 07:36:48 GMT
      Thanks, everyone! I'm starting to get the idea.

      - Diane


    6. Message by: psychopirates3128 01/15/2004 21:33:31 GMT
      I posted something on the subject....
      Here is the link....


Discussion: Presentation Time By: Marskateers 02/03/2004 02:01:51 GMT
Does anyone know how much time we are given for the research presentation.

  1. Message by: SMMS 11/03/2003 15:21:06 GMT
    You are given about 5 minutes. Lets talk more.
    :)
    Team SMMS Connecticut USA


    1. Message by: The Last Hoorah 11/15/2003 18:56:41 GMT
      I had thought it was only four minutes so I just sent out the question too.


    2. Message by: SMMS 12/02/2003 21:49:41 GMT
      The time you are given is 10 min. If I have tols anyone that it is 5 I am sorry. :( ;)

      TEAM SMMS Connecticut USA


    3. Message by: robertsrobotics1097 12/02/2003 22:04:07 GMT
      At our local tournament we were given 8 minutes but at the state competiton we are told we only have 5 minutes.
      I would check with your place of competition to see what they will allow.


    4. Message by: SMMS 12/05/2003 15:23:00 GMT
      My coach says she found out it was 10 min again.

      Team SMMS Connecticut USA


    5. Message by: Club BOB 02/01/2004 09:14:31 GMT
      I was a research judge this time around. There was quite a few teams at the event I attended who went way over on research time. It makes it hard to judge if one team is doing something under 5 minutes while another does something 10 minutes.

      I personally think it would be best if the time was uniform across the board. One team's outtakes on their video was longer than the total time of some of the teams.
      As a matter of fact, I think FLL ought to put the time limit right in the coach's handbook that goes out each year.

      The other thing is because some teams went long, it caused it to take longer to do the finalist presentations in front of everyone. made for a really long day.

      And personally I think the use of Powerpoint should be limited. I saw way too many teams where one team member after the other was simply reading from a powerpoint display. Technology is good, but I'd rather see it used more creatively.

      Susan


      1. Message by: 02/02/2004 18:42:47 GMT
        Deleted


    6. Message by: teamtech13 02/02/2004 18:41:36 GMT
      Does the research project give you time to explain yourself? Are the questions reasonably easy to answer?
      Does your team get marked on the creativeness of the project?


    7. Message by: Tekno Devils40 02/03/2004 02:01:51 GMT
      You get 5 minutes to present. You get a few more to answer
      questions. You should attempt to stay inside your 5 minute
      budget or you will take away from the question time.

      The questions will be open ended. The judges will grade you
      on how well and how in depth you answer.

      Yes, creativity is one aspect of the research project. In
      fact, there is a special award for the most creative
      presentation.

      -Skye


Discussion: Research Question By: MindStormTroopers1741 11/21/2003 22:48:23 GMT
Our team needs to know weather our research project... the habitation modules... needs to be designed so that it can be built now or if we can design them a bit more interestingly and it could be built in the next 20 years

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/31/2003 03:59:58 GMT
    Since you will probably need a few years of bake sales to
    raise the money to get to Mars, I think you could assume
    some new technology. In my work, we often bid a contract
    with the expectation that some gizmo will be available for
    us to use in 3-5 years. On the other hand, 20 years is
    probably too much in the future. Now its not a science
    project but more like a science fiction project.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Navigators101 11/10/2003 20:54:09 GMT
      All of our research in written in post graduate terminology. Where can I find some user-friendly web sites?


    2. Message by: SMMS 11/21/2003 22:48:23 GMT
      A website wear you can find user friendly terminology is hard. You can try www.yahoo.com


Discussion: Making a video By: Red Dragons 1888 11/20/2003 00:56:38 GMT
The rules say it's okay to make a video for our research presentation. But is it okay if the high school video class does the actual filming, as long as the FLL team members do all the writing and acting? Has anyone done this?

-Diane

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/12/2003 13:51:33 GMT
    I do not see a problem with it. Especialy if the high school
    kids involve the kids or at least explain what they are
    doing. They should not however act as directors, but more as
    camera operators.

    PS: Are you going to make the kids drive to the competition?

    -Skye


    1. Message by: robopanther2989 11/14/2003 00:04:27 GMT
      I think that is a very good idea. :) I agree with Skye


    2. Message by: SMMS 11/14/2003 01:43:57 GMT
      Just make sure when you make the video, that it doesn't take up the entire time that you are given.

      Team SMMS Connecticut USA


    3. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 11/20/2003 00:56:38 GMT
      Good idea! We were going to make a video too! I'm glad that you thought of the same thing!


Discussion: is it required? By: CraterJumpers817 01/16/2004 03:23:43 GMT
As a first-year team with almost no time left before our tournament, we want to know if the research project is required or optional--we can't seem to find that info anywhere.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/13/2003 23:33:08 GMT
    Optional. You are unlikely to win the research award or
    the Director's Award. But you can still compete at the tables.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Robocats1628 11/14/2003 21:34:03 GMT
      Lego League is about so much more than navigating a robot succesfully on a mat, that I would encourage you to do something in the research department.

      Last year our team put together their research project in 2-3 weeks. At that late stage, you will want to keep it simple. Kids do this all the time at school - one week to write a report on a topic.

      Here's one quick idea: Have every kid find facts out about your chosen item before the next meeting. Put them in question and answer form on the back of index cards. Arrange cards by difficulty and subtopic. Put a price, $100, $200, etc., on the front of each card. Voila! You have a Jeopardy game. One more meeting to practice playing the game, and you are there.

      May not win anything, but at least the kids will get the opportunity to participate.


    2. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/17/2003 22:13:46 GMT
      what


    3. Message by: 2smart4u1043 12/16/2003 22:36:20 GMT
      yes the research is not optional i would just put somethong together


    4. Message by: psychopirates3128 01/15/2004 21:36:27 GMT
      Last year it was required to go to state.
      Has that changed?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/16/2004 03:23:43 GMT
        Since every state tournament has slightly different ways
        to qualify, a one answer fits all is not possible. Some
        toutnaments have a lottery. You can show up with nothing
        (no robot, no research) and compete. Others require that
        you do well in a local tournament first. 'Well' is usualy
        the overall score that includes the research as 25% of your
        score. Must say I have never heard of a rule that says you
        must have a research presentation, but it is certainly
        possible.

        -Skye


Discussion: Research Help By: Red Space Monkeez 11/21/2003 22:56:10 GMT
What do the judges want us to research? Are there any certain things that they want us to know?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/17/2003 17:34:08 GMT
    Have you read the 3-4 page pdf file on the research presentation?
    If not, go read it now!
    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11310

    After you read it, you should realize that everybody will
    likely come up with a slightly different question to
    research. So the judges are not expecting the same thing
    from each team. You will be judged on how interesting your
    question is, and how well you answered it.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/17/2003 21:47:22 GMT
      yep


    2. Message by: SMMS 11/21/2003 22:56:10 GMT
      The things the judges want you to research are all listed in the research document under "judges criteria".



Folder: Rules and Missions Questions 01/11/2004 23:58:50 GMT
Use this folder for comments or questions to rules and missions.


Folder: All Terrain Vehicle Test 01/12/2004 04:18:47 GMT


Discussion: commacoszi By: ACES1345 12/04/2003 00:28:29 GMT
There is just no way! we do not have enough clearance. Our only hope would be a fast run at it with forward weight.

  1. Message by: craterkids 09/17/2003 07:30:09 GMT
    Sounds like you might want to consider some larger wheels. Also, the crater mission will be presumably the last one your team's robot attempts. Your robot does not have to finish in exactly the same configuration in which it started any of the missions preceding the final crater one. Quick swap wheels anyone?


    1. Message by: LaZyBoyz1132 09/18/2003 15:58:55 GMT
      It can be done. My boys look at that in the last meeting with a robot that is using treads. After a few adjustments the were able to drive in and out of the crater rather freely.


    2. Message by: redalienrockers3119 09/27/2003 18:10:26 GMT
      DO YOU DEFFINENTLY HAVE TO MAKE IT IN THE CRATER AT THE END OF THE MATCH TO GET ALL OF THE POINTS?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/27/2003 18:31:15 GMT
        No, you will get all your other points regardless of if
        you make it into the crater. Of course you will only get the
        "all terrain" points if you are inside the crater at the
        end of the round.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: BlueWizards221 09/29/2003 17:28:35 GMT
          Skye,

          I assume that you mean being "inside the crater" as being that no part of the robot is touching the mat outside of the crater. Additionally, I am assuming that parts of the robot over-hanging outside the crater is also ok.

          Cheers,

          Dennis


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/29/2003 17:35:24 GMT
            That is my understanding. Perhaps Scott will give us some
            guidelines for what is in and out for the crater and the
            rocks.

            -Skye


    3. Message by: red marauders77 10/02/2003 06:24:05 GMT
      I haven't started to build any robot yet, but shouldn't it be possible for you to cross the crater with any kind of wheels?
      -Ruizhi,11


    4. Message by: RoboWarriors1765 10/02/2003 18:24:05 GMT
      That's what we thought. But after trying a few different types, we found out that you're going to need to be considerably elevated. If you're to low to the ground, your robot will get stuck... not fun...


      1. Message by: MARS930 10/02/2003 23:20:57 GMT
        Yea, that would really bite if the robot got stuck and you had to take a penalty. Maybe if you used the huge wheels, somehow raised them up a few more inches, and put a medium torque and medium speed attachment on for the wheels, you could drive over the crater like a car over a speed bump. And then you get full points!


        1. Message by: red marauders77 10/04/2003 16:20:43 GMT
          Thanks!!!

          Deon-11


    5. Message by: Marsorbust2765 10/02/2003 23:38:36 GMT
      There are many different solutions to this problem, if you think hard, big wheels with high clearance is not the only way. You can go over the crater with any size wheels if you really try. The obvious solution is to use the big wheels but the obvious solution is not always the best one.

      Kevin O'Connor, programer
      Team Mars or Bust


    6. Message by: Bucket Kickers78 10/03/2003 03:51:10 GMT
      big wheels allow the robot to move over the crater with the least effort and impact. small wheels cannot definitely move across. tracks are ok but very slow.

      joshua-11yrs


      1. Message by: Legonauts4 10/03/2003 19:23:13 GMT
        Don't be so sure about that. I have seen a design with the smallest wheels go over the crater. You need to think about the problems you see when you try something. Bigger is not the only answer. Find many different solutions to a problem and then select the one that best works for you. Ask yourself questions like how many wheels, are all the wheels the same sise, are the wheels fixed or on suspensions, can you slide across, will treads work, can you fly across. do not limit yourself to one dimensional thinking. Don't fall into the trap of I have a hammer so everything must be a nail.

        Dave
        Coach of the Explorers


        1. Message by: cougars3527 11/30/2003 09:40:30 GMT
          Yea, also you don't have to go "big." the only way for the robot to get stuck between wheels is for there to be a place to get stuck. I'm not going to give you the answer, but you can have more than 4 wheels.


    7. Message by: pioneer327 10/18/2003 01:29:27 GMT
      something that we did was that we used a linebot chassis and cantilevered it so that it could take a third wheel. it did, and it can get over the crater just fine.


    8. Message by: qms920 11/05/2003 21:51:26 GMT
      Ummmm you spelled kamikaze wrong


    9. Message by: cougars3527 12/04/2003 00:08:30 GMT
      You could also use suspension. Here is a picture of some suspension by Joe Nagata(click on the attachment). It has 4-wheel drive, skid sterring, and looks like a hummer!


      1. Message by: 12/04/2003 00:28:29 GMT
        Deleted


Discussion: Is the All Terrain Vechicle Test Last By: SLX645 11/23/2003 23:24:20 GMT


  1. Message by: SLX645 10/03/2003 03:20:12 GMT
    Do we have to do the all terrain vechicle test at the end of the 2.5 minute match or could that be one of the first missions done.


    1. Message by: red marauders77 10/03/2003 03:49:40 GMT
      Do we start in the Tetrahedron base first?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/03/2003 12:54:27 GMT
        Read the numerous messages under the section on 'Exit The
        Tet. Base".

        -Skye


      2. Message by: DominatorsII650 10/17/2003 20:10:07 GMT
        Yes. you have to start on the bridge, and if you don't make
        it off the bridge after you have put it down, the ref replaces your robot on the platform and you have to start again.


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/17/2003 20:23:59 GMT
          The ref is unlikely to want to touch your robot. You will
          have to pick it up and decide what you want to do. You
          could try again, or move on to a different mission.

          The ref will however reset the ramp if it dropped.

          -Skye Sweeney


        2. Message by: thunderbolts-126 11/10/2003 16:43:26 GMT
          No. you only have to start on the tet if you are attempting that mission. Otherwise you can start anywhere.


    2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/03/2003 12:52:46 GMT
      To get these points, the robot must be fully inside the
      crater at the end of the 2 1/2 minute round.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: TeamTiger298 11/07/2003 05:22:53 GMT
        The rules state "the team performs mission attempts for 2-1/2 minutes". Does that mean that if the mission is attempted at T=2:29 but the mission is not completed until T=2:35 that ending up in the crater still counts as a successful mission? Alternatively, do you interpret the rule to mean the table is examined at T=2:30 and anything thereafter is not counted? I'm partial to the former interpretation. Comments appreciated.

        -Jim


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/07/2003 05:40:19 GMT
          At 2.5 minutes, the referee attempts to stop the robot
          where it is. Anything after 2.5 minutes is not counted
          for the score.

          -Skye


    3. Message by: alienbusters2865 10/14/2003 15:56:22 GMT
      If we are not in the Crater at the end of the match, are we penalized and lose all our points, or do we just not get the points for that mission?
      Dean


      1. Message by: 10/14/2003 16:26:12 GMT
        Deleted


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/14/2003 19:09:03 GMT
        You do not have to be in the crater at the end of the round. However, if you are not in the crater, you simply do not get the extra points for being in the crater (All Terrain Vehicle Test.)

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/14/2003 19:22:49 GMT
          I deleteded the offending message. That will teach me to
          post when I am under the weather.

          -Skye


      3. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/14/2003 19:24:35 GMT
        No penalty. You just do not get the points for the ATV
        mission if you are not in the crater at the end of the
        2+1/2 minutes.


    4. Message by: pcans2966 11/23/2003 22:53:36 GMT
      The robot has to be in the crater at the end of the round, but what about a device (arm) that had been removed after the first mission attempt. It would be back at base?? It is still considered part of the robot after it is removed?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/23/2003 23:24:20 GMT
        Read the definition of the "ROBOT" in the rules. Scott Evans
        made it fairly clear what is and is not a robot at any moment
        in time.

        -Skye


Discussion: can part of the robot hang over the board By: MarsMonkeys 1113 10/20/2003 22:54:08 GMT
Once our robot gets into the crater, is it OK if a portion of it (an extension arm) hangs over the board, or must the entire robot, arm and all, be within the confines of the crater?

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/20/2003 01:47:29 GMT
    MarsMonkeys:

    With regard to the crater mission, yes it is OK if portions of the robot "hang over the board," as long as no part of the robot (arm and all) is touching the playing field anywhere outside of the crater.

    The
    mission descriptions explain this as follows: "At the end of the match, the robot must end up completely in or on the Crater, such that nothing is touching the field outside the Crater."

    Essentially, what the referee is looking for as evidence that this mission is successful is that no part of the robot is touching the field outside of the crater. Being on the crater is OK; being on the mat inside of the crater is OK, and being partially on the mat and partically on the crater is OK. However, no part of the robot (arm and all) can be touching the field outside of the crater.

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: Marsorbust2765 10/20/2003 22:31:30 GMT
      I believe the question was regarding the field border. If this was not the intent of the question i would like to pose the question, Can part of the robot hang over the 2x4 field border?


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/20/2003 22:39:15 GMT
        Hanging over the 2x4 field border at the end of the mission is OK. (Note, however, that the robot does need to be within the field border in the base at the start of the mission.)

        Yet, there is one more thing to consider: there aren't any specs from FLL on what is outside of the field borders. That is, if part of the robot extends out over the field borders, it may bump into lighting brackets, tripods, audio/video equipment, spectators, etc. This doesn't mean that you should necessarily avoid this (the Mindstorms Mayhem team's robot had an arm that stuck out off the table at a couple points in last year's challenge) but that your team does so at their own risk...

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    2. Message by: Marsorbust2765 10/20/2003 22:44:52 GMT
      Thanks Ken that explanation was very helpful. It went along with what I thought but i just wanted to be sure. Thanks for the warning too, I will make sure to keep that in mind when examining our strategy.


Discussion: Ending the mission By: Irken Invaders 01/12/2004 04:18:47 GMT
To finish with your robot in the crater, are you allowed to press the green button to stop the program and end the run in the crater or will that cost you points (boulders)?

Coach Mark
Irken Invaders

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/30/2003 14:14:44 GMT
    Already answered in the forum. The answer is a big maybe.
    Best bet is to shut down the motors in the program.
    -Skye


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/03/2003 21:55:52 GMT
      Hi.Cant awnser. Bye.


    2. Message by: EdgemontMarsExplorers1578 01/12/2004 03:01:38 GMT
      does the crater have to be done last???????????


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/12/2004 04:18:47 GMT
        If you want the points for the crater mission, your
        robot must be inside the crater when the 2+1/2 minutes
        is over.

        -Skye



Folder: Clear Solar Panel 12/12/2003 12:32:00 GMT


Discussion: Tipping over? By: MartianManiacs480 11/30/2003 09:53:10 GMT
Are we alowed to tip over the solar panel in order to clear it?

  1. Message by: ACES1345 09/16/2003 04:52:44 GMT
    I would think not the rules say that the judge can not award point if deliberate destruction is used as a strategy. Since that piece is locked down you would probably rip the legs off if you tried to lift it up even on 1 end. but just my opinion.


    1. Message by: craterkids 09/16/2003 08:45:40 GMT
      I have a slightly different opinion. If it was obvious you were using a tipping strategy to clear it then it would be up to the judges to allow it or not. If your robot "appeared" to more haphazardly run into it then I doubt the judges would penalize you. An arm that goes under the solar panel attached to a motor that lifts it up would be a pretty obvious violation of the destruction rule. Surely a sweeper arm of some kind will be easier than something that can detach dual lock.


      1. Message by: RoboMonkeys746 09/25/2003 04:24:18 GMT
        Rule 21 makes this fairly clear it would not be allowed. "If it is obvious to the referee that Mission Model damage is part of team strategy, no points are awarded"


    2. Message by: thunderbolts-126 09/16/2003 13:58:52 GMT
      I'm not sure you could tip it over. The 3M dura-lock is tough stuff. We have to break down our board each night and the legs on the solar panel come off before the dura-lock lets loose.


    3. Message by: Debugs483 09/20/2003 21:51:28 GMT
      Just mount a beam effector on the side of the robot that is the height of the panel, and drive by. Points!


      1. Message by: Robocats1628 10/09/2003 03:08:47 GMT
        Easier said than done. The designers at FLL in their nearly infinite wisdom made some of the edges of the panel bumpy -- an easy place for the dust, and possibly your robot arm, to get hung up. Our kids found that the task is not as simple as it first appeared. It will be interesting to see how they solve the problem.

        Good luck!


    4. Message by: CraterManiacs450 09/23/2003 21:39:41 GMT
      Also, to be true to the spirit of the mission, if this was a real solar panel...the purpose of clearing the dust would be to maintain the functioning of the panel as as high of efficiency as possible, therefore, in a real scenario, you would not want to damage the panel when cleaning it....


    5. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 10/06/2003 17:39:56 GMT
      I think that it is far too risky even if it is sort of allowed, what if you got a picky judge one day?


    6. Message by: girls2mars3443 10/18/2003 22:30:33 GMT
      How could a robot connect the habitation modules, grab the ice cores, and clear the solar panel with just one multi-purpose arm? Any suggestions?


      1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 10/19/2003 02:01:42 GMT
        How could a robot connect the habitation modules, grab the ice cores, and clear the solar panel with just one multi-purpose arm? Any suggestions?

        That's part of the challenge. You will have to use your own creativity to solve this problem, or come up with a completely different way to accomplish these missions.


        1. Message by: cougars3527 11/30/2003 09:53:10 GMT
          Along with coming up with completly different ways, remember, you can only bring three motors to the match with you, so you have to change motors from device to device as you go, right?


    7. Message by: Chesapeake Legonauts 1228 10/28/2003 00:13:22 GMT
      Our team decided to look at the problem of clearing the solar panel as if they were using a broom. It took a lot of discussion, but the team members used a small wisk broom to clear the dust. Then, they used their fingers. After doing this, they designed a broom-like arm using the food loop pieces from last year's problem. These extensions are flexible enough to cross over the solar panel without getting stuck. The broom-like arm extends from the left side of the robot. As the robot travels down the ramp, it turns slightly and sweeps the panel clear.

      Again, it helps to have discussions with the team members that simulate how they would do the mission by hand. Then, have them design something with the Legos.

      It is interesting reading the discussions in these forums. Many helpful ideas are being shared. Thanks!


    8. Message by: nasajrs3540 10/30/2003 22:45:21 GMT
      no!
      you will not get pionts for diliberat distrution.


    9. Message by: qms920 11/05/2003 21:55:58 GMT
      also it kinda hard to tip the solar panel over, it is velcrotaped down...


Discussion: Clearing the Dust By: BlueWizards221 12/12/2003 12:32:00 GMT
Is it safe to assume that the lego "dust" bricks will not have a standardized initial position ( all standing up or all on their side)?

Dennis

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/23/2003 19:12:22 GMT
    Correct, the dust will be randomly but evenly distributed.
    Anything else would be a setup nightmare for a tournament
    director.

    -Skye "This one goes here, that one goes there" Sweeney


    1. Message by: BlueWizards221 09/23/2003 22:28:11 GMT
      Thanks- Dennis


    2. Message by: pennichuck864 09/24/2003 21:15:11 GMT
      Clearing the 'cleared dust' off the mat...

      It appears from the rules that the 'clear solar panel' mission is scored by looking at the top of the solar panel to see if there is any 'lego dust' remaining. It seems then, that after clearing the solar panel, a team can have the cleared dust removed from the mat by the judge and still receive full points. Is this correct?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/24/2003 21:45:06 GMT
        Unless Scott changes his mind, you can ask that a ref
        remove litter from the table enven if YOU are responsible.
        Be advised that referees are not always up on all the
        rules. The first time they see a table might be as early
        as that morning! If removal is part of your strategy,
        warn the head ref at the start of the tourney and the
        table ref before the match.

        -Skye Sweeney


        1. Message by: thunderbolts-126 09/25/2003 14:41:08 GMT
          Something else to think about when making requests of the judges, they are busy watching the match and don't have much time to help the teams. It's best to not bother them as they may miss something while trying to clear the board of dust.

          If your strategy is to have the judges remove things from the board, you should have one of the kids from the team tell the judge before the match starts so they can be ready.

          Laura


    3. Message by: 10/02/2003 23:34:16 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: MARS930 10/02/2003 23:35:38 GMT
      It would be a good idea to remove the dust from the table, as it might make your robot do something unexpected, and make you fail the mission. And I agree with Laura and Skye. It would be good to notify the ref and judge before you start.


      1. Message by: The Red Rovers 10/06/2003 22:31:45 GMT
        It also might be a good idea to clear the solar panel as the last mission the robot completes. That way, there is no concern about the pieces getting in the way.


    5. Message by: wrbbears1249 10/04/2003 18:03:19 GMT
      do u know if it will be standing up or on its side?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/04/2003 18:20:45 GMT
        Randomly placed over the surface in random orientation.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: TeamTiger298 11/07/2003 05:44:13 GMT
          That's good to know because the picture with the missions implies that all the dust would be placed on their sides. Not a single block was upright or upside down. It does have a slight effect on the difficulty if some or all may be oriented standing up.

          -Jim


    6. Message by: Pierce Marstars 10/08/2003 19:51:33 GMT
      I was wondering how many dust particles removed as remains counts for partial score? All off full score, one left to one taken off is partial?

      Thanks


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/08/2003 20:27:06 GMT
        That's right. As described in the mission descriptions at http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default_large.aspx?pid=12930 there are 31 points for getting at least one dust particle off of the solar panel, and 43 points for clearing the solar panel completely. To put it a little differently:

        0 particles cleared: 0 points
        1-7 particles cleared: 31 points
        all 8 particles cleared: 43 points

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    7. Message by: grobots2590 10/19/2003 02:10:27 GMT
      the blocks will be randomly and it might not be even.

      Nick


    8. Message by: Oakview Martrix Team 11/03/2003 04:44:22 GMT
      In the rules it says partial points will be given for dust partialy sweeped off. How much is partial?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/03/2003 13:51:57 GMT
        Partial means just one. If you can get even one off,
        you get the partial points.

        -Skye


    9. Message by: cls1820 11/12/2003 22:14:23 GMT
      Can you run into the solar panel(without tipping it over)to clear off some of the dust?


      1. Message by: harris-194 11/12/2003 22:25:26 GMT
        The rules say don't destroy the field objects, but that doesn't prevent you from touching them. In fact, many you have to touch or bump to accomplish the mission (e.g. rover, Alliance, MAV)

        Courtney
        Harris-194


    10. Message by: Roadrunners3793 11/13/2003 23:17:11 GMT
      If we use a sweeping thing to clear the the dust from the solar panel, on what other missions can we use that in?


    11. Message by: AMS Express 94 11/15/2003 00:53:25 GMT
      can you clear the solar panel by running into the solar panel (rookie)


      1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 11/15/2003 01:03:12 GMT
        can you clear the solar panel by running into the solar panel (rookie)

        Yes, but you could run afoul of rule 21 if you damage the solar panel.


    12. Message by: AMS Express 94 11/16/2003 23:10:45 GMT
      Will we get more points if use something to clear the solar panel rather than running into it?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/16/2003 23:24:51 GMT
        Points are not earned how you do something, but if to
        do it at all. In the case of dust, you get partial
        points for just getting one dust block off the solar cell.
        You get full credit for getting them all off. You could
        have your robot blow, push, pull, swat, bop, fling, punch,
        or otherwise remove them.

        -Skye


    13. Message by: pennichuck864 12/11/2003 19:46:41 GMT
      What is considered to be the 'top surface' of the solar panel?

      This came up during a practice run the other day. After clearing the solar panel there was one cube of dust remaining. However, the dust wasn't on the top panel, it was instead on one of the bordering grey blocks surrounding the blue tiles. One of the team members asserted that the dust particle was indeed cleared since it was no longer on the panel (as defined by the blue tiles). So the question is: Is the 'top surface' of the solar panel one of the blue tiles, or does it also include the great border tiles as well.

      Paul


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/11/2003 19:56:13 GMT
        Yikes!
        In real life, you only need to get the dust of the functional
        part of the solar cell. I would quickly send of an email
        to Scott Evans and get his take (the only correct one) on it.
        Scott may or may not be available tonight at the "FIRST Place" interview.

        I would be tempted to say it would not count, as this dust
        is soooo huge it would cast shadows on the function array!
        But that is just my opinion.

        -Skye


    14. Message by: pennichuck864 12/12/2003 12:32:00 GMT
      Here is what Scott says on this:

      The Gray areas you mentioned would count as top surfaces. Here are some ways to get at the definition of "Top" surfaces for this model:

      1) Surfaces that could not be argued as lower, bottom, or sides.
      2) Surfaces that would receive light from directly above.
      3) Surfaces which could prevent the Dust from falling.


Discussion: Actual Position of dust. By: team saints 11/22/2003 16:58:17 GMT
Where is the actual position of the martian dust? Can we make a request to the referees to make all the dust stand up?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/01/2003 02:23:14 GMT
    According to the instructions, the dust is to be evenly
    but randomly distributed accross the surface. I could not
    imagine a ref trying to place all the dust in any order.
    You must allow for dust on it side or upright and in
    any location. At a competition, there is just not enough
    time to place each peice by hand.

    -Skye "From one who knows" Sweeney


    1. Message by: MARS930 10/02/2003 23:26:52 GMT
      It dosen't really matter as long as you carefully position your clearing device. Besides, the difference is what, a millimeter or two? Unless the clearer is way off from the intended level, it should at least touch the dust...


    2. Message by: Mechamoose3858 11/08/2003 22:24:04 GMT
      When the dust is taken off of he solar panel, can we ask the ref to pick up the dust that has fallen off of the panel? Please reply. Thanks. *<=-)---<


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/09/2003 03:40:28 GMT
        You can ask.... and it should be granted.

        -Skye


    3. Message by: Dragons901 11/19/2003 00:20:17 GMT
      So are u saying that we can't place the dust where ever we want to?


    4. Message by: 11/19/2003 00:21:53 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: Dragons901 11/19/2003 00:24:33 GMT
      So r u saying that we can't put the dust anywhere we want to on the solar pannel, like all in one corner?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/19/2003 03:04:59 GMT
        The referee (or more likely his/her/its assistant) will place
        the dust on the solar panel. It will be randomly but evenly
        distributed on the surface.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/22/2003 16:58:17 GMT
        Also see Rule #21 in the
        rules as to whether you can change the position of the dust on the board.

        Good luck - Mark Beitz, coach


Discussion: habitation modules By: AtomicOranges1367 10/16/2003 02:14:12 GMT
Can you catapult the habitation modules

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 10/16/2003 02:14:12 GMT
    Nothing in the rules prohibit this. Do not read more into the rules than what they say. If it is not said in the rules, then it should be OK. The only official response is from FLL. This Forum is for information only and is not part of the rules.

    Dave


Discussion: habitation modules By: AtomicOranges1367 10/23/2003 12:54:17 GMT
Can you catapult the habitation modules

  1. Message by: red1253 10/23/2003 07:21:44 GMT
    is the habitation module on the table secured to the table or is it free to be moved. can the module on the table be brought back and connected to the other two then moved back out onto the table,or do we have to bring the two modules from our base to the one thats on the table


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/23/2003 12:52:22 GMT
      Please read the answer to this question by reading the
      messages under "North America" / "Rules and Missions" /
      "Connect 90+180 Habitation Modules".

      -Skye Sweeney


Discussion: Why worry about the position of the dust? By: emsjets 10/23/2003 14:42:47 GMT
Why worry about the position of the dust when all you really have to do is create an arm that would cover the entire length or width of the solar panel?

Discussion: Why worry about the position of the dust? By: emsjets 10/27/2003 22:53:55 GMT
Why worry about the position of the dust when all you really have to do is create an arm that would cover the entire length or width of the solar panel?

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 10/27/2003 21:57:44 GMT
    it dosent matter!!!


    1. Message by: Kenollie2876 10/27/2003 22:53:55 GMT
      you dont really have to worry becuase as long as the arm covers the entire panel it will sweep all of it off :)

      Kenollie Good Luck!


Discussion: solar panel By: Marskateers 12/08/2003 04:47:42 GMT
do you have to return to base after clearing off the solar panels?

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 11/19/2003 20:22:43 GMT
    You never "have" to return to base. You do this to set up for the next trip out of the base. You can do as many things in a mission as you like. Just remember that if something goes wrong, you will either have to start over or miss the rest of the trip. Most of the time you go back to the base to allow grouping the tasks done in one trip to a manageable amount. You must deliver things to the base for points, these can be dropped off by your robot or while in base, you can retreive the objects by hand. However, once you touch the object to retreive it the mission is over (that trip) and the green run button must be pressed to start another trip. At times this is also call another mission, but this does not mean one mission at a time, just one trip where multiple missions / parts of missions are done. This means you could retreive the ice cores one at a time returning each time, or all three returned at once. The score is at the end of the time and not on each trip or mission.

    -Dave
    Coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


    1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/19/2003 21:59:41 GMT
      no


    2. Message by: Irken Invaders 11/24/2003 18:51:01 GMT
      Hi Folks: Our team was surprised at the regional to find their sweeping device to clear the dust from the solar panel was not at the correct height. Their first thought was that they built their solar panel incorrectly or the tet. base on which they install their sweeping device. However, everything looks fine on our table. I measured the height of the solar panel adn the tet. base from the floor of the table and found the solar penl (to the gray part) was 1 3/8 inches while the tet base was 2 3/8 inches. If you have a moment, could you measure yours and get back to me to confirm the height? Many thanks.

      Coach Mark
      Irken Invaders


    3. Message by: Marsorbust2765 12/08/2003 04:47:42 GMT
      Sorry I don't have a height to give you but a similar thing happened to our team at our regional tournamnet in MN, the funny thing was we knew it was there table because we ran on all four that day and it only happened on 1 and it happened twice.



Folder: Complete Alliance Habitation Module 01/07/2004 04:19:56 GMT


Discussion: Clarification of Secured to the center By: InterplanetaryArgonauts287 01/07/2004 04:19:56 GMT
In the mat directions, it mentions the Alliance Habitation Module being secured to the absolute center. Does this mean to use the duralock there or is the module secured when it fits over a double border?

When not attached by external means, it is very loose and could easily be pushed out of position by either team.

Thanks,

Susan Martucci
Interplanetary Argonauts

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/15/2003 22:12:30 GMT
    Argonauts,

    For a proper fit, you will need to add a small section
    of 2X4 to the edge of the table. This will mimmic the
    second table's border when two tables are side by side
    in competition. The module will still be a little loose,
    but a chunk of duallock will solve that.

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: InterplanetaryArgonauts287 09/16/2003 00:07:50 GMT
      We have added the extra section. There seems to still be about 1/2 inch of room in the width. The mat instructions mention that the Alliance module will be securely fastened.

      I don't want to use duralock on our practice table if, at the competition, there won't be any additional anchoring of the unit.

      Thanks,

      Susan Martucci


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/16/2003 00:55:06 GMT
        On my third read of the instructions, I do not find a
        reference to DuoLock for the alliance module. But I do
        know that Scott Evans said something about using it when
        I meet with him a month ago.

        1) Triple check your model to make sure you are not off
        by one or two holes someplace.

        2) Jam some cardboard on the backside to take out the
        slop till Scott Evans clarifies this issue. It should not
        flop around, but may not be 'glued' down either.

        -Skye Sweeney


        1. Message by: ACES1345 09/16/2003 05:02:47 GMT
          My model is loose also even with the extra 2 X 4. I also noticed that when the model was on the table (ie supporting both sets of wheels) that you could push the one stick and it would stay up at the right position. But when it is over the 2 2 X 4s it will not close and it also will not stay in the upright position. so for practice you will need to somehow support the other set of wheels to even come close to simulating the real thing.

          also do both sides need to push it at the same time for it to work?

          Thoughts?


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/16/2003 12:39:13 GMT
            Yes both sides have to be activated at the same time.
            That makes it VERY tricky! Yes, to properly simulate it,
            you might need more than the 2x4. You might need a bit of
            plywood to support the other leg.

            -Skye


            1. Message by: BlueWizards221 09/16/2003 16:50:03 GMT
              Skye,

              Does this mean that two teams will have to synchonize their missions to the Alliance Module? How could that be practically done? My first take was that you pushed up your half and then if the team did their part both would get the total score. Do you have a different take on this?

              Dennis


              1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/16/2003 17:00:19 GMT
                If just one team pushes on their side, only their side goes up. When they back away it
                falls back down. Only when both teams push on their sides at the same time will the
                two side stick together via the magnet. Coordination would be critical unless you choose
                to help your neighbor and do both sides at the same time.

                -Skye


                1. Message by: BNI927 09/16/2003 17:04:35 GMT
                  think differently - what if a team pushed their side in place and then used some kid of block to prevent the wheels from sliding back?


                  1. Message by: BlueWizards221 09/16/2003 17:11:38 GMT
                    Good Idea! Thanks.

                    Blue Wizards


                2. Message by: legopros676 10/05/2003 07:09:39 GMT
                  If you do it gently enough, you can get one side to stay up even after the robot moves away.


                  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/05/2003 15:52:21 GMT
                    Check your construction and the location of the Dual Lock.
                    Your alliance module should not stay up unless connected
                    by magnet to the other side.

                    -Skye


              2. Message by: craterkids 09/17/2003 07:14:33 GMT
                It would seem to me that trying to synchronize your Alliance Habitation Module mission attempt with that of your opponent is almost surely a recipe for disaster. Since the missions can be attempted in any order you can't make any assumptions about when or even if your opponent will put their end of the AHM up. Our team came up with an idea that I think will work quite well, though. Try brainstorming with your kids, encouraging them to keep coming up with ideas.


          2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/16/2003 14:36:21 GMT
            ACES,

            My model is also loose even with the extra 2x4 and with
            dual lock on both vertical surfaces. I just this morning
            sent a question to Scott Evans looking for a resolution
            on this one. I'll let you know what I find out.

            --Ken Streeter
            Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


            1. Message by: thunderbolts-126 09/16/2003 14:51:41 GMT
              We put the dura-lock on the top only and it seems tight enough. We used two large pieces rather than the small pieces.


    2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/16/2003 20:55:18 GMT
      Regarding the securing of the Alliance Habitation Module
      to the table borders:

      I heard back from Scott Evans earlier today. He said
      that "Dual Lock is the fastener of choice there. Center
      and shim as needed."

      As a result, I secured our Alliance Habitation Module to
      the border using strips of Dual Lock between the horizontal
      portion of the module and the top edge of the double 2x4
      borders. The Alliance Habitation Module "clamps" that
      straddle the 2x4s are about one Lego beam width wider than
      the 2x4s on our table. I also centered the module so that
      an equal amount of "excess" hangs over onto each side of
      the field. Accordingly, the vertical "clamps" are not
      serving any functional purpose when installed. (BTW, one
      could additionally shim them somehow to make it fit even
      tighter.) I found that even with the Dual Lock only on
      the top of the 2x4 borders, that the Alliance Habitation
      Module is quite securely fastened to the table, and will
      not "let go" from the table through robot interaction --
      the module will definitely break apart before the Dual Lock
      comes loose!)

      --Ken Streeter
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 09/24/2003 03:12:45 GMT
        I think some additional clarification is still needed here. Scott Evans said "shim as needed". Should the shim go between the vertical "legs/clamps" of the module and the inner side wall, or should it go between the tables? I screwed an additional piece of 2x4 and a shim of 3/8" plywood to the outside of my table's side wall, so that the vertical legs of the module would be flush against both inner walls, and provide some additional stability. (I also used Dual-Loc on the top like Ken did.) However, this raised the question of what would happen if the robot was depending on positioning against the inner side wall - depending on the shim position, the module would be in a different location relative to that inner side wall. Granted the difference would be slight (approx. 3/16"), but you veterans probably all have a story about how tolerances even smaller than that can make a big difference! Can we get a real clarification? We just need to know how the tournament tables will be set up. I'll email Scott E. if noboby else has already.

        - Scott Kukshtel
        Coach, Atkinson, NH


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/24/2003 03:57:08 GMT
          Scott,

          I would suggest sending your message to Scott Evans for
          further clarification. I am pretty certain that the
          shim that Scott is referring to would be between the
          model "legs/clamps" and the inner side wall, rather than
          between the tables, but I would suggest you check with
          Scott, as I don't make the rules, I just seek to understand
          them! The reason that I guessed the way I did with the
          placement of the shim is that tournament table setups (with
          two tables) are generally bolted together in a way that may
          not readily allow the shim to be placed between the
          tables. The way I have the table setup, the legs/clamps
          are about a full LEGO-stud distance off of the inner wall,
          and the alliance habitation module is centered over the
          border between the two tables.

          And yes, you're absolutely right about the fact that
          the one-LEGO-stud distance we are talking about can have
          a MAJOR difference with respect to a mission being
          repeatably successful! It would be much better to find
          out the correct placement now, than to find out at the
          actual tournament!

          Please share what you find out with us. Thanks.

          --Ken Streeter
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    3. Message by: InterplanetaryArgonauts287 09/17/2003 01:51:06 GMT
      Thanks for the clarification...

      Susan Martucci
      Interplanetary Argonauts


    4. Message by: sharonB2965 09/24/2003 04:10:38 GMT
      As a long-time head referee, I can only recommend that you assume the worst possible scenario will happen at a tournament. Sometimes we arrive with built-in flaws in the tables that are very difficult to fix. I easily spend the first hour after I arrive rebuilding field parts and trying to fix huge bumps in surfaces. I can only imagine what this particular setup is going to be like.

      Every effort should be made to incorporate robustness and flexibility in your programming and strategy. Relying on hitting something dead-on is pure folly. Relying on things being the same as your testing table is a mistake. "But worked every time at home" is heard about once every 90 seconds at a tournament. Pretend it is on Mars. It isn't going to work like at home. What are you going to do about it?

      Connect with other teams, run on THEIR tables, change the lighting, and so on.

      --Jack Gregory


    5. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 10/01/2003 20:23:17 GMT
      Since there is a new link to this discussion from over in another thread, just an update to let you know that as of today, I have not received any clarification on the shim position from Scott Evans. I sent email to flltech@usfirst.org. Is this correct? And how quickly does Scott usually respond?

      - Scott Kukshtel


      1. Message by: Team Red Alert 229 10/01/2003 20:36:23 GMT
        Oops - scratch that. Just found the new updates on Q&A page. Scott says to "shim symetrically between the legs and the side walls". So I did it wrong :-(

        - Scott


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/01/2003 20:43:07 GMT
          Challenge 2003 Q&A Page Link

          FYI, for others reading this discussion that may not have found it yet, here is a link to the
          Challenge 2003 Q&A page.

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    6. Message by: Vortex 10/05/2003 20:23:01 GMT
      Is the robot allowed to bring together the alliance module by itself? In other words can the robot touch the other team's module? This could possibly interfere with the other team's mission.

      Thanks,
      Team Vortex


    7. Message by: harris-194 10/06/2003 17:28:30 GMT
      Yes you can. There is nothing in the rules that says you can't. Remember, if the Alliance module is connected at the end of the match BOTH teams get 43 points.

      Courtney
      harris-194


    8. Message by: Greybots 10/07/2003 02:16:20 GMT
      Just to make sure is the alliance habitation be dullocked to the tables?


    9. Message by: Inverse Kinematics 10/08/2003 15:27:28 GMT
      I talked with Scott Evens about the hole spacing etc. The module should be centered between the boards and Duolocked which proved okay during play testing, he did say though that you could place shims between the "legs" that straddle the wall and the wall for additional support but only if really necessary.


    10. Message by: qms920 10/09/2003 20:48:52 GMT
      qms920 wants to know if the "alliance habitation module" has to be attached to the mat? if so were does it go? if not can it be moved from its spot?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/09/2003 21:28:07 GMT
        qms920 should read the field set up instructions and the
        messages in this folder. No, the module is not attached to
        the mat but rather to the "Great Wall of Mars" (the wood border).
        It goes where marked and mentioned in the field setup
        instructions (dead center).

        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11380

        -Skye


    11. Message by: MVMS3133 10/20/2003 23:50:39 GMT
      we secured the allaince thing but its hard to push it together. what do we do


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/21/2003 02:59:13 GMT
        1) Make sure you did not get Dual-Lock adhesive on or against
        any moving parts.
        2) Make sure you built the module EXACTLY as the instruction
        said. Best have a second person look it over carefully.
        3) Make sure you are using the small section of 2*4 behind
        the border to make that section the right thickness.

        -Skye


    12. Message by: quetzales2749 11/27/2003 01:49:47 GMT
      Which is the "left wheel" on the Alliance Habitation Module, that is aligned with the mark on the mat? When facing it from across the playing field, or from the point of view of the inhabitants?

      Many thanks,

      Diana Foss
      San Jose, CA


      1. Message by: sharonB2965 12/01/2003 14:39:25 GMT
        As you face it from the field.

        --Jack Gregory


    13. Message by: GYRO2817 12/03/2003 00:31:30 GMT
      IS any one going to the micigan tournament able to put up their side of the alience hab. module?


    14. Message by: EdgemontMarsExplorers1578 01/07/2004 03:06:43 GMT
      is it that both sides must be activated at the same time by rule, or is it just because of how it's built?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 01/07/2004 04:19:56 GMT
        Nothing in the rules tells you how to accomplish the task.
        The rules do say what must occur. To score the points, both
        halves must be connected at the end of the round. How they
        get connected is up to you (as long as its the robot that
        does the deed).

        -Skye


Discussion: Strategy By: Tekno Devils40 12/03/2003 23:42:24 GMT
Although it is possible for one team to develop a mechanism to operate both sides of the module, it is
fairly obvious that FIRST wants teams to work together on the alliance module. I would suggest
using this discussion as a place to talk strategy.

I will open with a few ideas.
1) Always do the alliance module first thing.
2) Make the alliance module its own program and vocally negotiate when each team should run it.
3) Send out an IR message when you are about to attempt it.
4) Give up the 39 points for being in the crater and finish the round at the alliance module

  1. Message by: homeschoolheroes1226 09/16/2003 16:03:31 GMT
    I don't hold any hope for a coordinated effort between two teams at this point. A) You won't know who the other team will be until called to the tables. B) Even if everyone decided to run this mission first, some robots would take 10 seconds, some would take 20. Who wants to program their robot to sit and wait long enough to be sure the other robot is in position?

    I may be wrong but I view this as a rescue mission where one team has to do it all. We obviously can't spend months or years meeting with other teams to coordinate our efforts like on the international space station. Other thoughts?


    1. Message by: BlueWizards221 09/16/2003 16:56:11 GMT
      I agree! My first take on this was that you pushed up your half and then if the other team did their part both would get the total score. I am not sure it will be possible to keep half of the Alliance module up until the other team gets to it.

      Dennis


    2. Message by: BNI927 09/16/2003 16:57:47 GMT
      I agree. It was my initial impression that one team could push their half of the module in place. They could either pull the other half (awarding points to both teams) or wait for the opposing team to push their side to connect the two halves.


    3. Message by: Legomen2 09/16/2003 19:06:33 GMT
      Or if you want the points and you don't want a big arm to move the other side, you could just leave a LEGO brick infront of the wheel thing (the one that you push to bring the Alliance Module) and it will stay like it is until the other team comes to push up thier side...


      1. Message by: homeschoolheroes1226 09/16/2003 22:21:49 GMT
        Have you tried this yet? Seems like the lego brick would have to be fairly massive to avoid just sliding backwards on the mat.


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/16/2003 22:28:35 GMT
          That's right! A plain Lego brick slides very easy on
          the mat and probably won't work in this role. However,
          this is a great opportunity for a team to do some
          brainstorming!

          Let's see, a Lego brick just slides away... Why? Do
          all the bricks slide away? How can the sliding brick
          be made to not slide? Can you change the orientation?
          Try different bricks? Adding more bricks? Adding other
          Lego elements? Are there other things in the kit that
          don't just slide away? Maybe it would be a part used in
          a "non-typical" fashion...

          This is one of the things that I love about FLL! The
          kids continually think of things that are great ideas
          that would not have even crossed my mind! Try to encourage
          those brainstorming sessions with your students; you'll be
          amazed at the things they come up with! (Yes, admittedly
          they come up with lots of completely crazy, useless ideas
          too, but there always seems to be a gem in there somewhere!)

          --Ken Streeter
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


          1. Message by: Wildcats1099 10/06/2003 04:08:46 GMT
            We've talked about leaving something to hold up our side of the module, and my kids have a question that I thought I'd ask for some input on. If we leave a holder, does it count as part of the robot at the end of the match? The reason we're wondering is that the all terrain vehicle test says that the whole robot must end up inside or on the crater, such that nothing is touching the field outside the crater. If we leave a blocker by the alliance habitation module, will it count as part of the robot touching the field?
            Thanks,
            Monica Grogan
            Coach, Holy Family Wildcats


            1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/06/2003 12:49:57 GMT
              The mission statements does say that the whole robot must
              be inside the crater. Now look at rule 4:

              "The Robot is defined as the RCX and anything connected to
              it in any way, including any loose objects being held,
              manipulated, or moved."

              The definition of the robot is everything connected to the
              RCX. Since your support is not connected, you are ok.

              -Skye


              1. Message by: Wrobo3127 11/12/2003 03:14:48 GMT
                The way I read your response, if a sensor came loose and was being dragged by the wire as a robot heads for the crater, the sensor would be part of the robot as long as it stayed attached, but if it fell off completely, it would no longer be considered part of the robot. In other words you are saying that parts once connected or held by the robot (parts of the robot} become non-parts once they fall off or are released. Do I understand this correctly?


                1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/12/2003 04:37:45 GMT
                  Sure. In real life, we often jettison stuff we no longer
                  need for a mission. Just look at all the litter on the
                  surface of the Moon! Littering as a way of life at FLL
                  tournaments. If you don't need it, junk it.

                  -Skye


          2. Message by: emsjets 10/22/2003 21:12:46 GMT
            A tire laying flat at the bottom of the module will do.
            Do you think it will work?

            Edmnson Jets tutor.


      2. Message by: 09/30/2003 11:22:06 GMT
        Deleted


      3. Message by: legopros676 10/05/2003 07:16:43 GMT
        We've found that it is the recoil of the push lever that tends to make the alliance habitation module "come back down" once the robot moves away. You can minimize the recoil by using a wait command before the robot backs away, by backing away slowly, or in other ways. We've gotten ours to stay "up" about half the time.


        1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/05/2003 15:47:42 GMT
          Your alliance module should stay up zero percent of the
          time if properly made. Check your construction very
          carefully. Also check that the Dual-Lock you added is not
          interfering with the mechanism. The Alliance module was
          not designed to stay up unless stuck to the other sides
          magnet.

          -Skye


        2. Message by: Mapcuanun 10/05/2003 19:09:18 GMT
          Also be aware that even if you are somehow able to make it stay up - at the tournament the chances of the table being bumped are high. So all that hard work might be for naught if a bump knocks it back down.

          Marie


    4. Message by: a31330 09/16/2003 20:51:58 GMT
      From a competition point of view, there is no value in this mission. If you don't do your half, neither team gets any points. If the other team does their half, and you don't do yours, you both still don't get points. If one team does both halves, you both get 43 points and your final score changes by this amount, but in concert.

      In a tournament, it could be argued that a stong team that does both halves of this mission and everything else, will have a higher overall score. And while this may prove to be true, it will make no difference when elimination rounds are considered. Using the same logic as above, if you do every other mission perfectly (and abandon this one), you will end up tied with the other "perfect" team, regardless of whether they complete this mission or not.

      Unless I'm missing something, this mission is pointless! (What was FLL thinking?)

      PPB


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/16/2003 22:19:43 GMT
        At many state competitions, the final rounds are not head to head. 16 teams enter the
        finals and the top 8 SCORE winners move on. In this case the alliance mission does
        make sense. That is what FIRST was thinking.

        -Skye Sweeney


        1. Message by: Irken Invaders 09/17/2003 06:10:28 GMT
          That's how it worked last year at our regional competition in Virginia. We concentrated on getting the most points (our first year) and paid no attention to the other team competing at the same time. In fact, after our first table run, we were surprised how high our score was until someone told us the other competing team had placed food loops in our box and given us the points. But I agree that in a final round of the top 2 teams going against each other, this won't matter.

          Mark Guncheon
          Coach of the Irken Invaders


        2. Message by: 09/18/2003 14:25:37 GMT
          Deleted


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/18/2003 14:44:30 GMT
            Dave,

            I can't suggest anything for your team. What I can tell you is what happens at a competition.
            You get three turns at the table (rounds). You will get a score for each round. So will
            everyone else. Your best score is compared to everyone elses best. The top X teams get
            to go on to the next level. Normaly 16 teams are picked.

            No one of two things can happen! The finals can be a seeded ellimination where the best team
            goes up against the worst. In this case the actual scores do not matter just who has the
            higher score. The winners advance to the next level.

            The second possibility is that the X teams are randomly paired and run. After all X teams
            run the top X/2 teams move on to the next level. In this case your score does count as
            it is not just compared to your table partner but to all X teams.

            It is only in the second case that going for the alliance module makes any difference. How
            the alliance module gets done is up to you. You can do both side, you can coordinate with
            the other team, or simply pray!

            I have been to state competitions that have done it both ways. This year I would guess that
            FIRST will try to standardize on the non seeded approach as it is the only one that makes
            sense with the equal score for both teams that solve the alliance module. But who knows!

            You can bring anything make out of LEGO to the table. Read the allowable parts rule. What
            you do with that LEGO is up to you!

            -Skye


            1. Message by: 220 Red Rocket Engineers 09/18/2003 22:06:09 GMT
              At the WI Regional, State, and the National competition last year, all teams competed in all 3 rounds no matter how they scored. The final scoring was then based on the highest of the teams 3 scores. In the result of a tie, then the next highest score for each team was used.

              Doug
              Red Rocket Engineers
              Oak Creek, WI


            2. Message by: RoboLions1061 09/19/2003 11:12:39 GMT
              Skye,

              Thanks for the reply, my team actually won the German championship last year, but under a different coach. I was mainly looking for clarification on the 8 SCORE comment. Since most of the team from last year is back, I have a veteran team who have been in several competitions. As a rookie coach, I just want to make sure they have a chance to defend their title.

              The Livorno RoboLions team is made up of 10 military dependents and they all attend the Department of Defense School in Pisa Italy...I know that's tough :-)
              Since the team competes in Germany, and since none of us speaks German, I am posting my team's questions to the North America forum. As for me, I am the coach and I am an active duty US Navy officer.

              At least, you can be assured that we will not be competing against your team--or better yet, I can be assured that my team is not going against yours.

              I appreciate your taking the time to answer all of the questions that are posted on the forum, you and Ken are doing an outstanding job!

              R/

              Dave Olson
              coach, RoboLions


              1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/19/2003 12:55:29 GMT
                Dave,

                Wow! What a situation you are in! An rookie American living in Italy competing with a veteran team in Germany with a language you can't speak, posting question on the US forum!
                Nothing like a little stress in your life!

                Thanks for the pat on the back. Interestingly, Ken and I
                are cow orkers (co workers) in the same company. Our offices
                are a short distance apart. We will often spend lunch
                discussing FLL. There are two other coaches in our building
                and several more in the same company but in other buildings.

                The company (BAE Systems) is really in to FIRST and FLL. We
                sponsor several High School FIRST teams, mentor several
                others, underwrite some 50 FLL teams, sponsor the regional
                FIRST and state FLL competitions. All this with a volunteer
                force. We are very lucky and simply want to share our
                fortune as much as possible.

                -Skye Sweeney


                1. Message by: 09/19/2003 20:38:05 GMT
                  Deleted


                2. Message by: 09/20/2003 14:20:15 GMT
                  Deleted


                3. Message by: 09/20/2003 14:23:26 GMT
                  Deleted


                4. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 09/26/2003 01:09:45 GMT
                  Skye, So that's how you do it! I was wondering if your wife considered herself a FLL widow during FLL season. I just couldn't figure out how you found time to work and have a family with all time you appear to think about FLL. :-) Just teasing a little.
                  Really you are my FLL hero. If it wasn't for your coaches manual last year I would have been lost. I have still referred to it this year too.
                  Thanks to all of those you work with, who share your ideas with the rest of us.

                  Yvonne
                  Coach of the Mars Defenders 301


                  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/26/2003 03:33:01 GMT
                    Over my life I will get interested in something and give
                    it my all for a few years than move on to something else.
                    I am currently in the FLL stage! It only appears that I
                    do a huge amount. This week has been very rough, but most
                    weeks I am only out with the team twice a week. My wife
                    is understanding (I think!?) and does not complain as it
                    keeps me and my son out of trouble in the fall.

                    I am so glad that people have found my handbook helpful.

                    When I was a teenager, I joined a model airplane club. The
                    older members took me under their wing and taught me all
                    their tricks and helped me at every stage. I am still
                    paying back that debt.

                    -Skye


              2. Message by: Mars Defenders 301 09/26/2003 01:15:53 GMT
                Dave,

                Go US military!!!!!!! Thank you for serving your country this way. And thank you for serving the kids in this way too!


                1. Message by: RoboLions1061 09/29/2003 11:58:21 GMT
                  Mars Defenders,

                  Thanks for the pat on the back. Things can certainly get hectic at times trying to coordinate everthing, but it's worth it in the end. Working with the kids is not as easy as working with the troops, I can't order them around :-)

                  Good luck in this year's competition.

                  Dave Olson
                  Coach, RoboLions


      2. Message by: 09/16/2003 22:20:27 GMT
        Deleted


      3. Message by: craterkids 09/17/2003 07:22:45 GMT
        I believe they were thinking that the competition is not solely about getting a higher score than everyone else. There are passages scattered throughout the various FLL documents and web pages that talk about teaching the kids to work together. T.E.A.M. - Together Everyone Achieves More. It's a values thing. :-)


      4. Message by: R2D2Firedroids 09/18/2003 17:03:22 GMT
        High scores are not the only determinant for the FLL awards. Innovative programming, engineering design,robustness and teamwork(not necessarily solely among your team) are all parts of the Directors Award and other FLL awards (see Mission Mars manual page 17). As there can be only one high score at any given tournament, the ultimate victory for the team members is in the process of investigation, study, experimentation and execution not just the outcome. That is what FLL is thinking. I certainly agree that keeping the process focus in my and the team's mind is very difficult in our outcome oriented society. I believe that is the ultimate challenge of the FLL program.
        Dr. Paul of the R2D2 Firedoids
        thedoctor451@hotmail.com


    5. Message by: Ice Dragons 211 09/17/2003 09:13:55 GMT
      There's also no reason why you couldn't build a device that was heavy enough to hold your half in position long enough for the other team to do their part. You could move it into position and then leave to complete other challenges. That way at least you did your part, and then your points will be up to the other team to help you get.


      1. Message by: BlueWizards221 09/17/2003 15:31:37 GMT
        I think this approach is in the true spirit of FLL and this strategy will teach the team the benefit of team work, esp. when the other team completes their half.

        Dennis
        Blue Wizards


    6. Message by: team 78 09/17/2003 19:48:15 GMT
      How 'bout your 'bot pushing your wheel in and staying there while its' mechanism (this is the tricky part) pull's the other side's module in until they connect? This is easier said, then done, however it is a thought!!

      Terry Secora
      Team 78
      Burleigh Elem.
      Brookfield, Wis


    7. Message by: Bremen Botz! 09/18/2003 17:29:41 GMT
      One possibility is for every team to plan on doing both halves in a separate program slot. You could then walk up to the table, discuss with the other team which bot seems the most reliable, and let that team do the task. If for some reason the first attempt fails, the second team could possibly take a shot at it.

      The total points issue is very important to us, as Indiana did away with the 'elimination round' two years ago. Three runs and the performance awards are settled based in highest scores.

      Les Turner
      The Bremen Botz!


    8. Message by: flare1078 09/22/2003 22:04:53 GMT
      Hey people this strategy is easy you have a clamp going on the right side of the robot go up and clamp both together people it is not going to work getting them both to go up at the same time so i hope to see y'all in national's (ya right)


      1. Message by: marsrovers123 09/23/2003 02:58:02 GMT
        We did a little testing and found that a 3 inch cube made of Lego blocks is more than enough to hold up one side of the alliance habitation module. If each team simple slid a block into place it would hold until the other team pushed up their side. This is relatively easy to do, eliminates the timing issue or the need to reach across the side rails to pull up the other teams' side.

        --dave pochily
        team #123


    9. Message by: Rusty Engineers 09/24/2003 01:06:58 GMT
      Our team still believes that we should attempt to do it all by ourselves instead of crossing our fingers and hoping the other team accomplishes their half of the connection.
      We do not want to risk not achieving the possible points.
      Max Tagher
      Rusty Engineers


    10. Message by: 09/30/2003 11:23:39 GMT
      Deleted


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/30/2003 12:43:30 GMT
        Do not consider them your opponent. Consider them your
        alliance partner. It would not be cheating at all to
        coordinate with them. FLL is trying very hard to minimize
        the competitive aspect and increase the cooperative
        aspects of the sport.

        -Skye


    11. Message by: Legoshindiggies2872 10/01/2003 17:42:22 GMT
      My kids have figured out how to do our half and permanently hold it in place. So it is possible for the teams to accomplish this task. I won't tell you how we are going to do it because it is more fun to figure it out yourself. So don't give up hope.


    12. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 10/03/2003 21:16:45 GMT
      I think relying on the other team is not good, after all, if they dont do it your team will lose a good 40 pts. I say create somthing to do it yourself.


    13. Message by: stlukenanobots1043 10/14/2003 01:42:55 GMT
      Do both parts have to be put up at the same time


    14. Message by: Marsorbust2765 10/14/2003 04:19:52 GMT
      Both sides of the alliance habitation module have to be triggered at the same time for it to function properly and connect together. However this can be accomplished multiple ways. Be creative and think about how you can get both sides done at the same time.


    15. Message by: homeschoolheroes1226 10/17/2003 14:28:44 GMT
      WEIGHTED BLOCKS. We were looking for parts on Pitsco's Lego web site store and ran accross what were identified as "weight elements", two for $4.99. These were in the Lego replacement parts section under "miscellaneous". Ordered a set and these are great. They appear to be double high bricks filled with lead. Easy to push on the "Martian" surface and one holds your half of the Alliance Module in place nicely until the other team gets their half completed. Don't know if any other teams know about these bricks but they are official Lego products and therefore would be allowable. Good luck all.


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/17/2003 16:56:39 GMT
        Good suggestion on the weighted blocks. They have other uses, too, such as counterweights, etc.

        Just FYI, though, in case anybody else is wondering if the weight elements are safe to use -- I don't know what is actually in the weights, but I can almost certainly say that it is not lead! The Lego company is very safety conscious, and you can be certain that whatever is inside the weight element is a lot less toxic than lead! (They also don't feel quite heavy enough to be lead filled.) Does anybody actually know what is in them?

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    16. Message by: emsjets 10/22/2003 21:20:11 GMT
      Even if they were weighted, lego blocks could easily slip on the playing field surface. My suggestion to replace that is a tire laying flat on the bottom of the habitation module's lever. The tire would create enough friction on the board to keep the habitation up in it's right position.

      Edmonson Jets tutor


    17. Message by: Legonauts4 10/22/2003 23:41:47 GMT
      You can achieve a similar result with the Lego rubber bands around a wighted brick.

      Dave
      Coach #4 & #2605


      1. Message by: emsjets 10/31/2003 17:27:35 GMT
        Good Idea!


    18. Message by: 11/01/2003 21:02:36 GMT
      Deleted


    19. Message by: explorers2161 11/01/2003 21:06:02 GMT
      Good idea,

      Add more okay?


    20. Message by: toxic1673 11/12/2003 03:42:39 GMT
      do not depend on the other team to do half the mission!!


      1. Message by: GYRO2817 11/20/2003 08:29:32 GMT
        I think that one team should do both or that every body should think of dropping something to keep it up.


    21. Message by: Legomaineiacs672 12/03/2003 23:42:24 GMT
      The lego dacta levers kits have a weighted block that works well. One of my students uses them to counterbalance a forklift to lift the rover.


    22. Message by: GMT


Discussion: Men in the Habitation Module By: MegaMissioners526 10/21/2003 22:01:09 GMT
Is there a penalty if we should knock one of the men out of the habitation module?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/28/2003 22:59:40 GMT
    Life is precious, but not for this mission! The only
    true penalty is for yanking your robot back to base
    (one rock). Other errors are corrected by not giving you
    the points for the mission or making you start the
    mission over again.

    The rule about model fragility must be tempered by normal
    wear and tear. Wacking at the module to reduce it to
    rubble is a no-no. Minor contact to jar a minifig loose
    should not be an issue.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Mars Malows 1614 10/21/2003 21:51:45 GMT
      Where is a good place to find information on the habitation modules?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/21/2003 22:00:54 GMT
        Ever here of the biosphere experiment they ran several
        years ago? They locked a bunch of people in a sealed
        building for I think it was two years. That might be
        interesting place to start.

        -Skye


Discussion: GREAT IDEA!!!!!!! NEED HELP!!!!!!!!!! By: MindStormTroopers1741 11/01/2003 21:23:21 GMT
Our team wants to know if we can operate both sides of the alliance habitation module, thus giving points to us and the other team.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/29/2003 01:18:04 GMT
    There is nothing that says you may not.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: MemorialMustangs1642 10/03/2003 21:12:46 GMT
      would it be possible to connect it ourselfs withgout giving pts to the other team?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/03/2003 22:04:51 GMT
        Nope.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: Greybots 10/07/2003 02:14:46 GMT
      Can you use your own lego magnets to connect the alliance habitation together?


      1. Message by: Mapcuanun 10/08/2003 03:33:17 GMT
        sure, why not?


    3. Message by: Robocubs2521 10/30/2003 00:20:46 GMT
      is there anyone composing a program just for the alliance habitation?


    4. Message by: Woot! 10/31/2003 02:31:46 GMT
      Can't we put a wedge in a place to hold it up?


    5. Message by: 10/31/2003 14:27:15 GMT
      Deleted


    6. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 10/31/2003 14:28:45 GMT
      yes you can do that. read the other postings to get other suggestions


    7. Message by: explorers2161 11/01/2003 21:20:06 GMT
      In order to magnetically seize the alliance habitation module wouldn't you need a specific program?? Just asking... However, if any body has a good program in mind, send a reply to this particular message. (And attach the program in the "attachments" box below.) THANKS A BUNCH!


Discussion: question By: MindStormTroopers1741 12/09/2003 02:32:49 GMT
do both teams have to push the alliance module at the same time to conect it?

  1. Message by: Mapcuanun 10/06/2003 19:47:58 GMT
    that is one strategy

    marie


    1. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 10/11/2003 17:10:22 GMT
      but N mean, if you bushed the module... and then they pushed it 10 seconds later, then would it stick and give us points, or would ours have already fallen down?


      1. Message by: Mapcuanun 10/11/2003 20:29:29 GMT
        Test it to answer your own question: If you push it and move the robot away, does your side stay up? If not, what can you do to make it stay up? If it does stay up, what is keeping it up? How sturdy and stable is it? Will it stay up under all circumstances ( a robot bump, a jiggle to the table, etc....)?

        Marie Hopper
        coach Mars Rocks and Mapcuanun


    2. Message by: robopanther2989 11/13/2003 23:52:05 GMT
      my team is trying to work out the same problem we tryed to use a wedge but could get it to stay in place


    3. Message by: robopanther2989 11/13/2003 23:53:38 GMT
      my team is trying to work out the same problem we tryed
      to use a wedge but could get not it to stay in place


    4. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 11/15/2003 19:48:01 GMT
      you can't use a wedge, the referees will take it away as a lost part.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/15/2003 20:01:20 GMT
        Not unless you ask them, will they remove loose parts
        from the table.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: GYRO2817 11/20/2003 08:27:01 GMT
          Although we were ready to attempt the Alliance mission in the tournament we attended, we found that the three teams we faced couldn't do it. Since we talked to them before going to the table, we decided not to do that mission and concentrate on the other ones. One team could do it but 15 seconds into their program without dropping anything to keep it up. It was unfeasible for us to change and accomodate in such a short time. Our program drops something to keep the Alliance up so it's ready for the other team but only later as our 3rd mission.


    5. Message by: MTM3940 12/02/2003 02:11:34 GMT
      could you pull one side with the robot and push the other side somehow?


    6. Message by: Legonauts4 12/02/2003 20:40:50 GMT
      As long as the robot is doing the work anything is possible.

      -Dave
      coach Legonauts#4 & LegoPeople#2605


      1. Message by: MTM3940 12/09/2003 02:32:49 GMT
        thanks for the info


Discussion: Is this allowed? By: psychopirates3128 10/28/2003 17:21:33 GMT
Is it allowed to leave a peice or some type of thing on the board to wedge the wheel so that your half of the module says up?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/24/2003 02:55:01 GMT
    Not a problem as you can read from the other messages
    in this area.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: psychopirates3128 10/24/2003 21:40:16 GMT
      Thank you


    2. Message by: BvilleFLL402 10/25/2003 17:30:58 GMT
      Is it allowed to send a mail to get the other team to do it at the same time


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/25/2003 18:47:44 GMT
        I do not see a problem with that. The only issue will be
        what team or teams are you likely to need to talk to?
        Perhaps you could simply talk to them the morning of the
        tournament?

        -Skye


    3. Message by: Mapcuanun 10/25/2003 20:16:47 GMT
      I'm wondering if this question means: can you send the other rcx mail while on the table?! While it is possible to send mail from one rcx to another, I do not know if the two robots would be in a position to make that possible - there is a wall between the two robots. Also, I would suspect that the other team might get a wee bit upset if you suddenly overrode their programming while doing their own missions!

      Marie


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/25/2003 22:16:09 GMT
        I see your point. When I saw 'mail' I was thinking postcard
        and stamp or email not RCX message mail. Marie is quite
        right about the robots not being in a position to talk
        to each other. As we all know, "The Great Wall of Mars" was
        built during the "IR wars" as protection against the evil
        Horton's Infrared disruptors. A lucky shot is still possible
        but the likelyhood is fairly low. As for overloading the
        local friendly forces, I do believe that the latest technology
        would not be effected by lots of unwanted messages.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Robomaniacs 10/28/2003 16:30:09 GMT
          LOL Skye. Still trying to outdo the MAV post???

          -Mark H.
          Robomaniacs


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/28/2003 17:21:33 GMT
            I could never outdo the great master! I just love the
            'in character' post so much I had to emulate it.

            -Skye



Folder: Connect 90&180 Habitation Modules 01/02/2004 02:36:37 GMT



Folder: Getting Double Points 11/08/2003 15:49:46 GMT
Can you first connect the modules in the v shape and get the points and then move one of the modules to make the straight line and get points also?

Discussion: Good try By: Tekno Devils40 11/08/2003 15:49:46 GMT
Sorry, as per the rules, the table is judged at the end of the
round not cumulatively during the round. This prevents any
double points. It also means you need to be careful not to undo
something you have done and loose points. Like pushing the
rocks into the circle and then later pushing them out.

-Skye

Discussion: Is there a problem with magnets and the eletronics inside the RCX By: Legomen2 10/02/2003 01:00:11 GMT
Are the LEGO magnets strong enough to do any damage to the RCX? Or are they too weak?
Thanks in advance

  1. Message by: LaZyBoyz1132 09/18/2003 16:14:01 GMT
    I am not concerned about the magnets and the electronics. The magnets are fairly small and it would take a stronger magnet to do damage. I don't believe that FLL would construct soomething that would interfer with the normal operation of the controller, either


    1. Message by: sharonB2965 09/24/2003 03:42:29 GMT
      Solid-state computers like the RCX are not sensitive to weak magnetic fields. The motors generate 1000 times more magnetic "noise" than the little button magnets ever will, and everything operates just fine.


    2. Message by: Chesapeake Legonauts 1228 09/24/2003 16:14:03 GMT
      How about the small magnets and computer disks? It may be advisable to keep these magnets away from saved RCX files.


      1. Message by: RoboMonkeys746 09/25/2003 04:30:33 GMT
        You most definitely want to keep the magnets away from any floppy disks. Guaranteed erasure of data here. It would be a good idea to also not store the magnets tacked to the side of your computer case as well.


    3. Message by: The Red Rovers 10/01/2003 22:09:45 GMT
      Do we have to use the robot to connect the modules


      1. Message by: Mapcuanun 10/02/2003 01:00:11 GMT
        Red Rovers,

        How else would you connect them? The one module is secured to the mat in the middle of the table; the other two modules are in base. If you mean, can you connect the two modules in base and then transport them, yes, you can do that by hand. But anything outside of base must be done by the robot and not human action.

        Marie Hopper
        coach Mars Rocks and Mapcuanun


Discussion: Carrier for Modules By: BlueWizards221 10/18/2003 17:46:43 GMT
Can a carrier be attached to the 2 modules and then left in place after the 2 modules are attached to the third on the playing field?

Dennis
Blue Wizards

  1. Message by: Catlin Gabel 09/18/2003 19:27:33 GMT
    There's nothing in the rules that says you can't leave stuff on the board. The catch is that your device and the modules all must fit inside the base when you start the mission.


    1. Message by: BlueWizards221 09/18/2003 23:00:07 GMT
      Thanks for the feedback. Your right, space in the base is tight but managable. Good luck in your state.

      Cheers,

      Dennis


    2. Message by: AtomicOranges1367 10/15/2003 23:29:45 GMT
      I think you can.


    3. Message by: spacepirates2500 10/16/2003 03:37:54 GMT
      Do the 180 degree habitation modules need to reside competely within the walls of the base before a mission attempt, or can part of them be within the base lines and part outside of the lines?


      1. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 10/18/2003 17:46:43 GMT
        Do the 180 degree habitation modules need to reside competely within the walls of the base before a mission attempt, or can part of them be within the base lines and part outside of the lines?

        Please READ THE RULES before posting questions like this. What specifically about rules 4 and 9 does not answer your question?


    4. Message by: Irken Invaders 10/16/2003 12:32:15 GMT
      Everything on the robot including attachments must be within the base.

      Coach Mark
      Irken Invaders


Discussion: V Shape photo By: team saints 09/25/2003 19:22:02 GMT
How does a V shape 180/90 habitation module look like? Does anybody have a photo of it?

  1. Message by: RoboLions1061 09/25/2003 18:29:18 GMT
    Team Saints,

    Just place a 180 on each side of the 90 degree, simple as that. It looks like a V.


    1. Message by: Robomaniacs 09/25/2003 19:22:02 GMT
      This is a REALLY bad picture, but it will show you what the V shape should look like. Incidently, this is from Scott Evans' table in New Hampshire, so if there are any objections, send them to him. :)


Discussion: connecting the 90 & 180 modules By: spacecows1577 11/12/2003 19:34:23 GMT
Can you bring the 90 module back to base, connect the 180 modules and then push the connected modules back out onto the playing field?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/28/2003 22:54:33 GMT
    This might be a real trick considering the 90 module
    is "dual locked" to the mat! You would really have to
    yank the thing to remove it. And if you damage it at
    all the referee will not give you the points. Read the
    rules about 'fragility'.

    My guss is that you have not properly set up your table.
    Read the section on mat and border setup on the fll
    webpage.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: BlueWizards221 09/29/2003 17:13:23 GMT
      On several occasions when connecting the two 180's to the 90, the magnets on one of the module pairs attach edge-to-edge instead of face-to-face. Will this edge-to-edge attachment be considered a completed mission?

      Dennis
      Coach


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/29/2003 21:00:13 GMT
        This came up when Ken and I talked to Scott. Edge to edge
        connection was just fine with Scott. The key was a magnetic
        connection, not just close to each other. A ref should be
        able to give a small push to see if they are magneticaly
        coupled.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: BlueWizards221 10/01/2003 23:11:42 GMT
          Thanks for the followup. This ruling by Scott may be worth bring to the competition in writing. Does Scott publish these types of decisions?

          Dennis


          1. Message by: Tharks1165 10/28/2003 00:01:04 GMT
            You really don't need it in writing since it is clearly stated in the mission. Read the rules and mission description.

            i There are two 180* Habitation Modules in Base. They must be connected to the 90* Habitation Module, such that the magnets or their holding forks are in contact.


        2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/01/2003 23:24:08 GMT
          Dennis,

          Yes, Scott Evans has a single page for publishing these official decisions.

          The page is the
          2003 Challenge Q & A. It would be a good idea to revisit the Q&A page regularly. However, the issue of the magnetic connections of the Habitation Modules is not one of the few clarifications that has been announced.

          I believe that the reason that the Q&A page does not address an issue such as this one is that Scott does not use the Q&A to simply repeat information that is already in the mission objectives. This issue of "edge-to-edge" connections rather than "face-to-face" connections is already spelled out in the mission objectives, where it says "They [habitation modules] must be connected to the 90* Habitation Module, such that the magnets or their holding forks are in contact." (The "edge-to-edge" connections are the "holding forks are in contact" case.)

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      2. Message by: 09/30/2003 11:13:38 GMT
        Deleted


    2. Message by: 09/30/2003 11:15:58 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: Rapids Marsbots 10/15/2003 00:53:27 GMT
      Our robot keeps on getting stuck trying to recover the ice cores


      1. Message by: thunderbolts-126 10/20/2003 21:18:48 GMT
        Why is it getting stuck?
        >Ours was bottoming out as it went over, so we made it higher.
        >The ramps are steep, is your robot geared to have the torque to get over it? Maybe try gearing it down, it will move more slowly, but may be more stable.
        Do you have other pieces that it is getting stuck on?


    4. Message by: Mars Malows 1614 11/05/2003 23:05:18 GMT
      I wanted to know if you can start out in the base with the 180 modules in front of the robot and push them to the 90 module, or do they start out in a certain spot in the base.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/05/2003 23:22:25 GMT
        Objects in the base are yours to position wherever you want.
        -Skye


    5. Message by: Martian Bulldogs 201 11/07/2003 00:53:38 GMT
      What would be the best way to connect them togather?


      1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/12/2003 19:32:56 GMT
        Allowable parts, selected by your team. - Mark Beitz, coach


Discussion: Connecting to modules By: SLX645 11/22/2003 18:19:03 GMT
Can we physically attach the 180 habitiation modules to our robot using one of the (+ shapped) shafts. And drag the modules across the field using the shafts to keep the modules moving while we go to the other module.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/30/2003 02:48:05 GMT
    If I understand the question, I think the answer is yes.
    You could connect to the habitation modules using an axle
    connector.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: SLX645 09/30/2003 23:55:58 GMT
      Thanks for the info.

      -Nick


    2. Message by: gbots917 11/21/2003 23:32:19 GMT
      Can you connect the two modules before the missions starts and push them?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/22/2003 02:24:15 GMT
        You may connect the two 180 modules you have in base.
        You can then push them out onto the field..

        -Skye


    3. Message by: Blazing Rockets 1532 11/22/2003 00:01:10 GMT
      You can connect them, but you can not push them out into the field. If you read some of the other folders you will find some other suggestions


      1. Message by: ilsgreen2170 11/22/2003 18:16:41 GMT
        If "push" means push by hand without robot action, this is not allowed.

        If "push" means the robot pushes the connected modules which 1) start completely in base and 2) move only after the green run button is pressed, this is legal.

        - Mark Beitz, coach


Discussion: Connecting to modules By: SLX645 11/05/2003 05:50:10 GMT
Can we physically attach the 180 habitiation modules to our robot using one of the (+ shapped) shafts. And drag the modules across the field using the shafts to keep the modules moving while we go to the other module.

  1. Message by: The Red Rovers 10/01/2003 22:24:25 GMT
    do we have to use the robot to connect the modules


    1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/01/2003 23:07:45 GMT
      Humm, Somehow you must have the modules connected at the
      end of the 2 1/2 minutes without human intervention!

      Does that mean a robot must connect them? I would think
      that some action of the 'robot' must be responsible. If
      not, how did they move out of the base and out to the
      90 degress module?

      -Skye


    2. Message by: RoboWarriors1765 10/15/2003 15:40:07 GMT
      Can we connect the 180 degree HMs in the base manually and then have our robot move the connected peices to the 90 degree HM?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/15/2003 16:29:43 GMT
        That would not violate any rules.
        -Skye


        1. Message by: GYRO2817 11/05/2003 05:33:08 GMT
          It was said in another conference that you could attach lego pieces to keep the 2 modules on a straight line (180). Does it also mean that we could attach a lego device to keep the 2 modules so that we can connect them at a 90 degrees angle? Curious?


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/05/2003 05:34:46 GMT
            The angle is not important. What is is that you can put
            them in a container, connect them together, add parts,
            and other like things.

            -Skye


            1. Message by: GYRO2817 11/05/2003 05:50:10 GMT
              Thanks we were just thinking that since we make more points if we deliver and attach the habitat in a v-shaped(90) that we could attach them in a v-shape in the base with other lego pieces( not on our robot)and deliver them in a v-shape instead of trying to deliver them one at a time.


Discussion: Upside down By: team saints 11/05/2003 05:41:53 GMT
Can the 90/180 modules be connected upside down? The magnets are in contact of each other.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/01/2003 03:08:55 GMT
    I can't make this decision. You would have to get a
    rulling from Scott Evans (evans@usfirst.org). I will
    GUESS that the answer would be no. Last year we had houses
    and these had to be delivered in a way that you could live
    in the house. Would you want to live on Mars in an upside
    down house?

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 10/01/2003 05:42:17 GMT
      Hmm. My first impression on this one would be the opposite of what Skye suggests. (Plus, taking the other point of view helps make for an interesting discussion!)

      My guess is that although an upside-down habitation module wasn't the intent of the mission objectives, there is nothing in the 2003 Mission Mars Objectives that says anything about whether the habitation module needs to be right-side-up or upside-down, or sideways, or in any other orientation! The mission objectives simply say "There are two 180* Habitation Modules in Base. They must be connected to the 90* Habitation Module, such that the magnets or their holding forks are in contact." In keeping with the way FLL rules are interpreted -- if it doesn't say you can't, you can! Accordingly, I would say that if you can get the magnets or their holding forks to connect while the habitation modules are upside down, then fine. (I do think that connecting the habitation modules upside down may actually be more difficult than connecting them right side up!)

      By the way, in the 2002 CitySights challenge, yes the houses had to be delivered right side up. However, the 2002 CitySights Mission Objectives also explicitly stated that last year, the "Houses must be upright, and their bases must not be touching any roads." Since this year's objectives didn't say that, a team would not have to unnecessarily constrain themselves to having the habitation modules right side up! Thinking "out of the box" is part of what FLL tries to encourage!

      Just my two cents...

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

      PS: I am curious as to what Scott Evans has to say about this one. Inquiring minds want to know... :-)


      1. Message by: AtomicOranges1367 10/15/2003 22:39:23 GMT
        Nothing says you can't.

        atomicoranges1367


    2. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/24/2003 02:57:34 GMT
      Has anybody approached Scott Evans on this point?
      I suddenly find myself needed to know!

      -Skye Sweeney


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/24/2003 17:52:18 GMT
        I just got a comfirmation from Scott Evans. You can deliver
        the modules upside down!

        -Skye "walking on the ceiling" Sweeney


        1. Message by: GYRO2817 11/05/2003 05:24:17 GMT
          Then how do you connect them with the magnets of the one that is on the mat if the magnets are upside down???? Confused?//


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/05/2003 05:32:23 GMT
            If you play with them you will find that they will lock
            together when on is upside down but at a good tilt.
            The one upside down is mostly on its side at maybe 45 deg.
            Strange but true.

            -Skye


            1. Message by: GYRO2817 11/05/2003 05:41:53 GMT
              Thank you. I still have problems visualizing how top magnets will connect with bottom magnets on the mat but we'll try it tomorrow.


Discussion: robot and habitation modules By: The Red Rovers 11/14/2003 02:46:03 GMT
Do we have to use the robot to connect the modules? Or can we slide them from our base?

-joe

  1. Message by: thunderbolts-126 10/02/2003 04:13:01 GMT
    If you mean slide them from base to the third module out on the field by hand, the answer is no. If your robot can slide them from base with a team member only pressing the run button, that would be cool!


    1. Message by: explorers2161 11/14/2003 02:31:09 GMT
      you better rephrase your question its pretty hard to understand.


    2. Message by: astrobots638 11/14/2003 02:46:03 GMT
      I think you can slide the modules from your base using your robot, meaning you can not touch anything on the floor once you push the green run button.

      Wendy (Hacienda Astrobots)


Discussion: robot and habitation modules By: The Red Rovers 10/01/2003 22:41:00 GMT
Do we have to use the robot to connect the modules? Or can we slide them from our base?

Discussion: Moving the 90* Module By: andover722 10/03/2003 02:50:59 GMT
Is the 90* module fastened to the field? If not, can it be brought to base by the robot, connected to the other modules, then delivered back out to the field by the robot?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/03/2003 02:50:59 GMT
    The 90 is Dual Locked to the table.

    -Skye


Discussion: Failed attempts By: robertsrobotics1097 10/10/2003 20:45:28 GMT
If you fail a mission attempt and have moved the modules out on to the playing field are you allowed to retrieve these or ask the judge to retrieve them so you can attempt the mission to connect the modules again? Or is this a one time shot, and your fail what happens if the moved pieces are now in the way of other missions. I hope that is clear.

  1. Message by: Legonauts4 10/10/2003 20:45:28 GMT
    Read rule number 16 and 17. If the modules are attached to the robot so that when the robot is picked up the modules come with it, then yes you can try again. If not the modules remain on the field where they were left. You can ask the ref to remove the objects but you will not get them back. If your robot was pushing them and they are still in position, you can restart your robot and it should push the modules when the robot catches up to the modules, risky but may work.

    Dave
    Coach #4


Discussion: picking up mudules By: Red Space Monkeez 10/11/2003 16:48:29 GMT
when starting the mission, can a team make a carrier to hold the modules and bring them to the 90 degree module.

  1. Message by: planetaryrats1125 10/11/2003 16:48:29 GMT
    Yes you could, but the carrier has to be inside the base at the beginning of the round.


Discussion: Where do you have to place the Habitation Modules? By: vikingteam33 11/25/2003 21:31:46 GMT
Its clear where you have to place the 90 one but there are no signes where to place the 180 one's. Does anyone know this or is there a map.

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/12/2003 16:02:16 GMT
    The 180 modules must connect to the 90 degree module out
    on the field. Either in a sigle row for partial points
    or at a right angle for full points.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: vikingteam33 10/12/2003 19:17:41 GMT
      what we actualy meant was where to put them before the game starts.
      so where their start position is


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/12/2003 21:35:17 GMT
        Wherever you want inside the base.

        -Skye Sweeney


    2. Message by: vikingteam33 10/13/2003 21:46:30 GMT
      then is that the same for the red ball which you have to launch?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/13/2003 22:42:08 GMT
        Yes. You 'own' objects that are in your base. These objects
        can be manipulated by hand and placed at your conveniece.
        They can even be removed from the base and put on the
        floor to make more room.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: vikingteam33 10/14/2003 12:14:57 GMT
          well ok, thats cool.
          a little bit off-topic, but does this mean that "returning to your base" which is often said in the mission statements, doesn't mean you have to ride up on the platform, but riding into the base (marked by the line) is enough?


          1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/14/2003 16:25:25 GMT
            The platform is only needed for the "Exit Tet Base" mission.
            All other times the normal keystone shaped base is fine.
            -Skye


            1. Message by: vikingteam33 10/14/2003 20:36:56 GMT
              ok, thank you very much for all the info!
              I have some more questions, but i will post them in the appropriate topics...


          2. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 10/14/2003 23:48:42 GMT
            but does this mean that "returning to your base" which is often said in the mission statements, doesn't mean you have to ride up on the platform, but riding into the base (marked by the line) is enough?

            See rule 19 and the diagram included with rule 9.


          3. Message by: robotic panthers748 11/25/2003 21:31:46 GMT
            As long as any part of your robot is across the base line, you can pick it up to prepare it for the next mission.


      2. Message by: Embed Inc RoboSquad 10/14/2003 23:42:34 GMT
        then is that the same for the red ball which you have to launch?

        Please read the rules before asking related questions.


        1. Message by: vikingteam33 10/15/2003 12:53:13 GMT
          I read all the rules very carefully, but it was not clear to me, so thats why I asked it here.


          1. Message by: MVMS3133 10/20/2003 23:45:19 GMT
            vikingteam is a cool name


          2. Message by: MVMS3133 10/20/2003 23:51:13 GMT
            vikingteam is a cool name


    3. Message by: MVMS3133 10/20/2003 23:43:21 GMT
      is the 90 degree habitation module attached onto the board?


    4. Message by: harris-194 10/20/2003 23:49:46 GMT
      Yes, from the Mat & Borders instructions ( http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11380 )
      90* Habitation Module
      Secure this model to the mat (7) places recommended---custom cut just enough to contact each flat. Use the magnet holders as the best guide for alignment just before pressing down.

      Probably want to read through all the Mat & Border instructions to make sure your table is setup correctly.

      Courtney
      Harris-194


    5. Message by: MVMS3133 10/20/2003 23:53:57 GMT
      is the 90 degree habitation module attached onto the board?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/21/2003 02:56:02 GMT
        Read above messages.
        -Skye


    6. Message by: SeekersOfTheMartianGrail384 10/28/2003 19:17:39 GMT
      Team: SeekersOfTheMartianGrail384:
      " In Rule #8 it says that the ...Robot is in Starting Position, the team may package objects aim the Robot, repair it, load or unload it, add or remove parts, switch programs, reset mechanisms....... "

      Does this mean that you can move / package/load the 180 degree habitation module and / or the launch canister ?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/28/2003 19:49:11 GMT
        yes, but only the robot is in base and you currently 'own'
        the opbject (and it is in base).

        The analogy here is that the base is where the humans live.
        The atmosphere of Mars is such that humans will only leave
        the base under critical circumstance (and at a loss of a
        rock!). If the bot makes it back to base you (as a human)
        can do 'whatever' you want to the robot. Oil lub and filter,
        de-dusting, addition or subtraction of manipulators, and
        adding or subtracting field items for the next or previous
        mission.

        -Skye


    7. Message by: Legots 11/04/2003 19:54:08 GMT
      Based on the discussion here, I would also infer that while starting the Habitation Modules mission, we can place the 180 Hab Modules in base in exact position (maybe even a robo arm going through them) for the robo to start moving them. How about touching of robo with the mission modules on base? Is it OK?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/04/2003 20:50:42 GMT
        While in base, humans can manipulate field pieces that you
        'own'. Stack then, add lego, put them in a container, place
        them on, in, above, bellow your robot, connect them to your
        robot, and other manipulations.

        -Skye


Discussion: Finishing Position of Habitation Modules By: Dragons 11/14/2003 00:35:12 GMT
Are we correct in assuming that the connected habitation modules can end up any place on the playing field?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/19/2003 01:01:53 GMT
    No you are not. To get points they must be connected to
    the habitation modules that is Dual-Locked to the mat.
    Full credit for a 90 connection, and partial for a 3 in line.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: teamick1503 11/14/2003 00:29:28 GMT
      Re: Finishing position of Habitation Modules...Do you know if the magnets have to be linked vertically (tight fit) or can they also be magnet to magnet horizontally? We haven't seen any info on this.
      ~Becky with Team I.C.K.


      1. Message by: harris-194 11/14/2003 00:35:12 GMT
        The mission description says: They must be connected to the 90* Habitation Module, such that the magnets or their holding forks are in contact.

        The 'holding forks' statement means, to me, having the sides touch would count.

        Courtney
        Harris-194


Discussion: physyically attaching the 2 modules By: robodemons67 11/11/2003 05:23:33 GMT
Our team is also fairly new to the forums, so hello:P!
Are you allowed to physically attach both modules with a technic brick so they can stay straight? I've skimmed through the rule book, but I'm not sure if it says anything about modifying the playing pieces itself

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/24/2003 22:50:08 GMT
    You can read the FAQ at http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/faq

    The short answer is that resonable additions are legal.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Marskateers 10/27/2003 03:18:48 GMT
      What is a technic brick, and where can one find this piece?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 10/27/2003 04:41:55 GMT
        Technics are the type of LEGO used mostly in Mindstorm
        robots. Technics are the beams with holes, the plates with
        holes, the axles, and all the fun part. Just about everything
        other than the 'old fashioned' rectangular bricks.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: BelieverBots 2440 11/08/2003 04:39:29 GMT
      The rules state that all pieces must be Lego manufactured pieces and not modified in any way.


    3. Message by: GYRO2817 11/11/2003 05:13:38 GMT
      What is reasonable additions? If we use many technic beams to connect them together, is this reasonable? Of course the attachment would be with us at the table and we would prepare the habitats before starting our mission.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/11/2003 05:23:33 GMT
        That would be resonable. If your modifications to the model
        can be done and UNDONE quickly and simply I would say you
        are fine. If you have to take a model apart and rebuild it,
        then that is not resonable.

        -Skye


Discussion: physyically attaching the 2 modules By: robodemons67 10/31/2003 00:12:16 GMT
Our team is also fairly new to the forums, so hello:P!
Are you allowed to physically attach both modules with a technic brick so they can stay straight? I've skimmed through the rule book, but I'm not sure if it says anything about modifying the playing pieces itself

  1. Message by: Marsorbust2765 10/26/2003 14:12:43 GMT
    Yes you are allowed to attach together the 2 modules that start in base. This falls under the last part of rule 15.


    1. Message by: MindStormTroopers1741 10/31/2003 00:05:34 GMT
      So let*s say that you connect the two habitation modules that are in base, and then your robot goes out and comes back with the 3rd one. Once the 3rd one is inside the base lines can you touch it and make the V shape? Does the robot need to drag the V that you yourself have made back out of the base to get the points? Is this legal at all?


      1. Message by: hawks1195 10/31/2003 00:12:16 GMT
        Good idea, but as covered in other posts, the 90 degree module is dual-locked to the mat so it won't move.


Discussion: physyically attaching the 2 modules By: robodemons67 11/04/2003 04:47:59 GMT
Our team is also fairly new to the forums, so hello:P!
Are you allowed to physically attach both modules with a technic brick so they can stay straight? I've skimmed through the rule book, but I'm not sure if it says anything about modifying the playing pieces itself

  1. Message by: wd40s2305 10/31/2003 00:31:06 GMT
    yes, you can attach them.


    1. Message by: WhiteRabbit9 11/03/2003 21:47:39 GMT
      What if you need to take the habitation module apart to connect them? After attaching the connecting part, the module would be put back together. Is this still legal?


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/03/2003 23:41:22 GMT
        Now you are on shaky ground. I would pass your idea
        pass Scott Evans (evans@usfirst.org).

        -Skye


    2. Message by: WhiteRabbit9 11/04/2003 04:47:59 GMT
      It's ok. I thought it might be a problem, so the team came up with another way to do it. Thanks.


Discussion: Placement of the 180 degree module? By: Mega Missioners 526 11/10/2003 22:15:56 GMT
When placing the 180 degree HMat the 90 degree HM must the face of the 2 magnets be connect? Or is it suficiant for the sides of the magnets to be touching?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/04/2003 05:10:36 GMT
    The sides are OK as per the official Q+A.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Cored1796 11/07/2003 00:00:28 GMT
      Can we attach the 2 modules inside our base ny hand?

      -Coreds


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/07/2003 00:06:16 GMT
        Please take the time to read the messages in the folders
        under "Connect 90&180 Modules". The question has been
        asked a few times and answered that many times as well.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/10/2003 22:15:56 GMT
      There right


Discussion: magnet connection By: oxfordtech3547 11/14/2003 15:30:29 GMT
how do the magnets have to be connected. Can they just touch or do they have to fully connect by the magnet face. We have had ours connect through the plastic on the sides is that good enough

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/07/2003 05:40:46 GMT
    Good enough.
    -Skye


    1. Message by: Roboknights1 11/12/2003 22:07:41 GMT
      In a practice run that we did, the magnets were connected side by side by the forks which hold the magnets in place. There is still magnetic attraction there so does this count? The judge did not count it as attached.


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 11/12/2003 22:14:51 GMT
        Sometines the edges of the magnets snap together and not the
        faces. This I know is ok. If the non-moving forks are
        touching each other I am not sure. This might be a good
        chance to take a photo and send it off to Scott Evans.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: harris-194 11/12/2003 22:30:19 GMT
        The mission rules say: There are two 180* Habitation Modules in Base. They must be connected to the 90* Habitation Module, such that the magnets or their holding forks are in contact.

        The instructions specifically mentions that contact with the holding forks is okay. I would have expected that to count.

        Sending a picture to Scott is a good idea, too late to help you, but might help some others.

        Courtney


      3. Message by: sharonB2965 11/14/2003 15:30:29 GMT
        If they are magnetically "attached" then it should have counted.

        --Jack Gregory


Discussion: habituation modules By: Marskateers 11/19/2003 22:05:50 GMT
Do you have to return to base after completing the habituation modules, mission.

  1. Message by: Blaine bat heads 11/19/2003 22:05:50 GMT
    no


Discussion: Connecting modules at base By: bluedevils 1533 12/02/2003 22:49:48 GMT
we were wondering- if your robot brings the 90 degree module to base, can you connect them yourself? (not have the robot do it)

PS- that means it will end up in the base

  1. Message by: hawks1195 12/02/2003 22:49:48 GMT
    Please check the other posts before asking your question. This has been asked before. The answer is that the 90 degree module is dual-locked down to the mat, so it can't be brought back to base.


Discussion: magnet connection By: a8 12/04/2003 16:17:33 GMT
Can we connect all three modules using only one point of magnetic connection? The rules do not say that we have to use two points of connection. Would this be considered a V shape?

  1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 12/03/2003 19:05:46 GMT
    Wow! Thats a new twist! Not sure to call it a 3 inline
    or a V. Sounds like an email (evans@usfirst.org) to Scott
    is needed. Let us know what he answers.

    (Boy am I glad I do not have Scott's job!).

    -Skye


    1. Message by: sharonB2965 12/04/2003 15:51:01 GMT
      I would rule against it on the spot, but I would love to hear what Scott says. Plus, I think it is pretty hard to do. I would love to see a picture.

      The reason I would rule against it is because the mission does define the V shape as "90 degrees". I think this clearly implies use of the habitation connectors as intended, and thus would not be "habitable". However, I recognize that even a module that is upside down is scored, as long as it is magnetically connected.

      --Jack Gregory


    2. Message by: a8 12/04/2003 16:17:33 GMT
      The answer from Scott Evans:

      The referees were told that it really needs to look like a V. Get a consensus. If everyone you ask says "Oh, yeah, that's a V alright", you should be all set (show this to the ref in advance if you're nervous). But if 2 out of 5 people say it looks like a pile, or a "Y", or a "T", or a horse, I think you're taking your chances.

      So, no clear answer. We'll have to decide whether or nor to take the chance!


Discussion: Tournament Hab mod question By: thunderbolts-126 01/02/2004 02:36:37 GMT
Can we bring our own cab modules pre-assembled with add on parts attached to the tournament table and use it instead of those at the table?

  1. Message by: harris-194 12/30/2003 01:56:58 GMT
    The expectation is that you must use the tournament field models. I can't find anything explicit about that in the rules, but that is what I understand. Allowing such a substitution would open up a rats nest - e.g. if I can use my own models, why not my own table?

    My advice: make it easy to setup your attachments and it won't be an issue.

    Hope that helps,
    Courtney
    Harris-194


    1. Message by: thunderbolts-126 01/02/2004 02:36:37 GMT
      OK. Sounds like a plan... our State competition is on Sunday, the kids will just have to make it KISS better.



Folder: Exit the Tetrahedron Base 12/04/2003 15:08:09 GMT


Discussion: The "alternative base"? By: Robohawk 2256 11/25/2003 04:18:48 GMT
From the missions page: The platform is considered a valid alternative Base for other missions, but the ramp is not.

Does this mean the robot must return to the platform as the base? I do not have a mat yet, and so don't know if there is a marked base as in previous years.

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/15/2003 20:48:21 GMT
    RoboZ:

    First off, yes, there is a marked "Base" on the field mat.
    The tetrahedron base has a platform (which is entirely in
    the Base) and a ramp which can be lowered. When the ramp
    is lowered, it extends a long way out of the Base.

    My understanding of the sentence in question ("The platform
    is considered a valid alternative Base for other missions,
    but the ramp is not.") has to do with the definition of
    the Base. (See Rule #7 at http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=11250 ).

    Essentially, what is being said is that later missions can
    be started in the Base (which includes on top of the
    platform), other missions could end in the Base (which
    includes the top of the platform) with out incurring
    a "Bonus Loss", and objects moved to on top of the platform
    are considered as being in "Base." Essentially, this
    is intended to be a clarification of the definition of
    the Base. (That is, a "glass box" 40cm high extending
    above the Base lines marked on the mat and the inside
    border walls.)

    I believe the clarification is so that teams realize that
    once the ramp to the platform is lowered, the ramp is no
    longer in the Base, and is not part of the Base! (The
    lowered ramp is outside of the "glass box!")

    Where I see this clarification being particularly relevant
    is when a robot is returning from a mission out on the
    field, and comes to stop touching or on the (lowered) ramp
    while the robot is entirely out of the "glass box." In
    such a situation, the robot would not be "in base" and
    would incur a "bonus loss."

    To answer your specific question, no the robot does not
    need to return up onto the platform to "return to base."
    However, a robot that did so would be "in base." All
    missions need to start from "within the glass box" whether
    on the platform or off. Similarly, to avoid a "bonus loss"
    the robot must return to the base (within the glass box).
    A robot does not need to return to the same part of the
    base from which it started a mission. No "bonus loss"
    penalty would be incurred for a robot which started within
    the glass box on the platform, and then returned to the
    base on the mat; nor would a "bonus loss" penalty be
    incurred for a robot which started on the mat and then
    returned to the base by driving up onto the platform by
    using the ramp.

    However, if a robot is trying to drive up the ramp to get
    on top of the platform in a return to base, it needs to
    actually make it up into the "glass box" to count as
    being back in the base! (Just being halfway up the ramp
    would not be enough.)

    I hope this helps. I'm still trying to work through all
    the nuances myself. I am 100% positive that the students
    on my team will think of a situation or two that is not
    so clear! If they come up with a stumper, you can be sure
    that I'll post it here.

    --Ken Streeter
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: ACES1345 09/16/2003 04:45:59 GMT
      So when the rules say the robot has to drop the gate and then get off the base does it have to use the ramp?


      1. Message by: craterkids 09/16/2003 08:41:48 GMT
        I don't think so - just "move completely off the platform and the ramp". The rule seems fairly clear to me. Take a 90-degree turn after dropping the ramp and fall off the platform. It's likely part of your robot will still be in "base" so you can just grab it.

        We've tested our robot descending the ramp and it's fairly random as to what its orientation is by the end of the ramp. Using that as a mission launch sequence seems suspect to me unless you have a Hummer-like suspension. :-)


    2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/16/2003 05:18:03 GMT
      The mission rules simply say that "For this mission,
      starting position is with the robot touching only the
      rectangular platform. The robot must lower the ramp and
      move completely off the platform and the ramp..."
      (See http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default_large.aspx?pid=12930 )
      No limits are given as to how the robot moves off
      the ramp. Driving down the ramp is the obvious approach.
      However, the sky is the limit!

      (Personally, I'd love to see a "helicopter" robot lift
      off the platform, hover, and then lightly set down in
      Gusev Crater!)

      --Ken Streeter
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

      PS: Having the team perform brainstorming of novel
      solutions to the mission challenges is a key aspect
      of First Lego League! Have the students do brainstorming
      of wild and crazy ideas of how to solve the missions.
      Some of the wildest ideas may very well end up being the
      best approach for the team's robot design! (In last
      year's challenge, I recall seeing some teams harvest
      the fruit from the trees by shaking the trees! )


    3. Message by: BlueWizards221 09/16/2003 19:12:33 GMT
      Is the 40 cm high ceiling of the base relative to the mat or the Tetrahedron platform or either?

      Dennis
      Blue Wizards


      1. Message by: Tekno Devils40 09/17/2003 02:32:04 GMT
        Relative to the mat. This from a conversation I had
        with Scott Evans this summer.

        -Skye Sweeney


    4. Message by: Debugs483 09/17/2003 06:42:14 GMT
      But if the robot returns to the base marked on the mat after starting the mission from the tetrahedron base, can you still pick it up? (is it just like having two bases?)

      *Hannah*
      (Captain, DeBugs)


      1. Message by: craterkids 09/17/2003 07:00:04 GMT
        Rule 19 covers the specifics about when you can pick up the robot without a penalty. There is no correlation between the starting and ending positions so it doesn't matter if your robot starts on the platform or on the mat portion of the base - as long as any part of it is in base then the kids can pick it up without incurring a penalty. This will immediately terminate the currently in progress mission attempt.


    5. Message by: Debugs483 09/17/2003 18:40:49 GMT
      Thanks for the clarification!


    6. Message by: RoboLions1061 09/18/2003 14:35:05 GMT
      Ken,

      From what you've said in your post, my understanding is that the top of the "alternative base" is within the glass box, and we would be allowed to touch our bot. I see other posts curious about what to do after they lower the ramp; but wouldn't it be okay to have your bot bump the ramp and then after it falls, just have your bot back up? Once it backs up, it "should be in the base" and therefore we should be allowed to pick it up without a penalty.

      Your thoughts???

      Dave Olson
      RoboLions


    7. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/18/2003 18:13:35 GMT
      Dave / RoboLions:

      In the situation you describe, yes, you can pick up the
      robot without any penalty. However, if the robot does
      what you describe (start on platform, move forward until
      just bumping ramp to knock it down, and then back up onto
      the platform again) you will be allowed to touch the
      robot without penalty, but you will not have completed
      the mission for "Exit the Tetrahedron Base."

      As I mentioned in an earlier post (actually below this one
      in the list, due to the way these forums work, though)
      the mission rules say that "For this mission, starting
      position is with the robot touching only the rectangular
      platform. The robot must lower the ramp and move
      completely off the platform and the ramp before the match
      or the Mission Attempt is ended, otherwise the referee
      resets the ramp..." (See http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default_large.aspx?pid=12930 )

      What would happen in the case you describe is that the
      referee would reset the ramp since the robot never moved
      completely off the platform and the ramp!

      Other than that one "gotcha" in the mission statement,
      your strategy would be right on!

      --Ken Streeter
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: RoboLions1061 09/19/2003 11:00:36 GMT
        Ken,

        Thanks for recalibrating my brain. I think I am approaching saturation level LOL

        It did not sink in from reading the mission that the bot needed to exit the ramp, and yes, it is a nice gotcha. Fortunately, you saved us some future misery.

        My team won the German championships last year, and we would like to repeat. I appreciate your responses.

        And FYI, the team I coach is the Livorno RoboLions and the team is made up of 10 military dependents and we all live in Pisa Italy. We compete in Germany, however, none of us speak German so it's better to post to North America since we are all US military personnel ( I am a Navy officer).

        R/

        Dave Olson
        coach, RoboLions


      2. Message by: BotCats29 09/23/2003 15:53:25 GMT
        Ken,

        Sorry, I don't see that language as saying the robot must drive down the ramp, only that it cannot be touching the ramp at the end of the mission. It seems to me a robot that smacked the ramp down and then backed off the platform into base would fulfill the stated criteria.

        Ken Ibold
        Coach, BotCats


        1. Message by: Mapcuanun 09/23/2003 18:10:05 GMT
          Ken,

          I thinkg it depends on how you are defining "base." If you mean that the robot pushed the ramp down and backs up onto the portion of the platform considered in base, no that mission is not accomplished. The mission states "The robot must lower the ramp and move completely off the platform and the ramp...."

          If what you are describing is a push to lower the ramp and then the robot somehow lands in base but off the platform, that seems to me to be a mission accomplished.

          Marie Hopper
          coach Mars Rocks and The Mapcuanun


          1. Message by: BotCats29 09/23/2003 18:15:27 GMT
            Marie,

            Yes, what I was thinking of is knocking down the ramp, then having the robot back up until it tumbles off the platform. Mission accomplished. Right the robot by hand and go to the next mission. Have to make sure the robot is sturdy, of course ... :-)


            1. Message by: 09/29/2003 12:10:37 GMT
              Deleted


      3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/23/2003 18:16:07 GMT
        BotCats29, I hope I haven't muddied this issue too much!
        I think you and I are in complete agreement, but I'll
        try to help explain, in case others out there may be
        confused. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that the
        scenario you described would be disallowed.

        I agree that the rules statement is quite clear. The
        rules (see http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default_large.aspx?pid=12930 )
        say "For this mission, starting position is with the robot
        touching only the rectangular platform. The robot must
        lower the ramp and move completely off the platform and the
        ramp before the match or the Mission Attempt is ended,
        otherwise the referee resets the ramp..."

        I agree with you that the mission statement says nothing
        about "driving down the ramp." The requirement is that
        at the start of the mission, the robot is completely on
        the rectangular platform, and that at sometime before the
        current mission attempt is ended, the robot is completely
        off of both the platform and the ramp.

        Dave Olson's earlier question was if it was okay for the
        robot to "bump the ramp and then after it [the ramp] falls,
        just have your bot back up?" My response is that this
        scenario would not have completed the mission, as the robot
        never moved "completely off the platform and the ramp."

        The point you raise, however, is that it doesn't matter
        how the robot gets "completely off the platform
        and the ramp." The "obvious" approach is to drive down
        the ramp off the platform, but any other solution of
        getting completely off is acceptable. Brainstorming
        possible alternative solutions other than the obvious would
        be a good team activity. For some robot designs, driving
        off the ramp in the "obvious" fashion will be best. Other
        robot designs may be more suited to other approaches,
        such as the "rough and tumble" one you describe.
        (Personally, I want to see a helicopter! :-))

        --Ken Streeter
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      4. Message by: silverseals1236 09/29/2003 20:17:11 GMT
        Ken, Thank you for clarifing the first mission objectives.
        We are a new, young (ages 9 & 10) team and some of the missions are mind boggling to first timers. Could you clarify a simple question, it is our understanding that we
        return to base between each mission, with the exception of the first mission in which we start off on rectangular
        portion of the Tetrahdron. Also are you aware of any past
        or present teams in the Northern Michigan area? We are
        looking for a mentor team.
        Thanks,
        The Silverseals1236


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #63 09/29/2003 22:01:35 GMT
          Silver Seals,

          I am not personally aware of any teams in the Northern Michigan area. I would suggest posting such a question in the
          Michigan section of the forum.

          Regarding clarifying the missions, I have a couple of suggestions:

          1) Read the missions over together with your other coach(es) a few times, to see if you can puzzle out what makes sense. In general, the rules and mission statements are pretty straightforward.

          2) Check out the FLL Unofficial FAQ.

          3) If you have questions that aren't addressed by either of the above, ask them on the forum.

          In any case, I'll have a go at clarifying your question. Not knowing how much you already know, this is going to seem very long-winded, but I'm assuming that you are starting at ground zero as a complete FLL novice.

          "it is our understanding that we return to base between
          each mission, with the exception of the first mission in
          which we start off on rectangular portion of the
          Tetrahdron."

          In general, the robot performs "mission attempts" by starting within the base (as defined in the rules). Mission attempts are started by pressing the green run button on the RCX. After the mission attempt is started, the mission attempt continues until either the robot is touched by the team, or until the match time runs out.

          In a "mission attempt," the robot attempts to complete the mission objectives. (Such as clearing solar panel dust, launching the MAV canister, placing habitation modules, etc.) Generally, the plan is for the team to start the robot off on a mission by pressing the green button, have the robot proceed out onto the table to complete one or more mission objectives, and then return to the base. When th