2004 FIRST LEGO League Forum Archive

Home
Index
   - BRAZIL - [for Brazilian members]
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
   - CANADA - [for Canadian members]
       Internationals in GA
       The Basket
   - CHINA - [for Chinese members]
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
       Zhong Guo
   - DEUTSCHLAND - [for German, Austrian and Switzerland members]
       Details zum Regionalwettbewerb
       Fragen Anregungen zu Regeln und Aufgaben
           A Legt die CD zur*ck
           Allgemeines
           B Play Basketball
           C Erklimmt die Stufen
           D F*ttert die Haustiere
               Wo sind die Futterst*cke?
           E Oeffnet das Tor
               Wie rum muss das tor stehen
           F Erkenne die Busstrecke
           G Schiebt die St*hle
           H Serviert das Essen
           I Holt die Brille
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
       Werbekampagne
   - FRANCE - [for French members]
       bus
       chaise
       chaises
           chaises
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
       Lunettes
   - HOLLAND - [for Dutch members]
       Bedankt
       eten en dienblad !!!!
       Finale
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
       Let op!!!
       Plek van dieren eten in base?
       succes!!
       Technische vragen en opmerkingen
   - JAPAN - [for Japanese members]
       asgdr
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
   - KOREA - [for Korean members]
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
   - MEXICO - [for Mexican members]
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
       Miscelaneo
       Misiones
       Missiones
       Obstaculos
       Robot
       Saludos
   - SINGAPORE - [for Singapore members]
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
   - SKANDINAVIEN - [for Scandinavian members]
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
   - SOUTH AFRICA - [for South African members]
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
   - TURKEY - [for Turkish members]
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
   - UNITED KINGDOM - [for UK members]
       Anonymous the arm hunters of FFL 2004
       Challoner 320
       CTC STARS
       Internationals in GA
       Star Rovers Team Stuff
           problem
   - UNITED STATES - [for American members]
       Equipment Questions
           Batteries
           Equipment Needed
           LEGO Questions (not programming)
               Basket Building
           Motors
           Table Constructions
               portable table
           Table Setup
               Dining table constructon
       Marketing, Fundraising and PR
       Miscellaneous
           'Twas the night before tourney
           1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia
           Attachments In Base
           High scores we got 304
           Hummers Hummers Hummers!!!
           learning handicapped child
           Lego Humor
               Looting
           New Team
           Robot Won't Steer Help
           Should a team member work with the kids if he or she can't go to the competition?
       Programming Questions
           General Questions
           Miscellaneous
           Robolab Questions
               MACS
               Robolab- using light sensors
           Robotic Invention System (RIS) Questions
               Sharing Myblocks between program slots
       Regional Information
           Alabama
           Alaska
           Arizona
           Arkansas
               Welcome!
           California
               Northern California
           Colorado
           Connecticut
           Delaware
           Florida
               SW Florida
           Georgia
           Hawaii
           Homeschool
               Welcome!
           Idaho
           Illinois
           Indiana
           Iowa
           Kansas
           Kentucky
           Louisiana
           Main
           Maryland
           Massachuseetts
               Teams South of Boston
           Michigan
           Minnesota
           Mississippi
           Missouri
           Montana
           Nebraska
           Nevada
           New Hampshire
               Nashua Area
           New Jersey
           New Mexico
           New York
           North Carolina
           North Dakota
           Ohio
           Oklahoma
           Oregon
               Beaverton, Tigard, Hillsboro area
           Pennsylvania
               Philadelphia area
           Rhode Island
           South Carolina
           South Dakota
           Tennessee
               Tournament Info
           Texas
               Central Texas FLL Tournament Information
               Miscellaneous
               North Texas FLL Tournament Information
               South Texas FLL Tournament Information
               Welcome Texas FLL Teams!
           Utah
           Vermont
           Virginia
           Washington
               Competition Practice
           Washington D.C.
           West Virginia
               WV State Tournament
           Wisconsin
               Oak Creek State Qualifying Tournament - Nov 13
               Regional Registration
           Wyoming
       Research Questions
           Research Links
       Rules and Missions Questions
           Bonus Objects
           Climb the Stairs
           Feed the Pets
               Upsidedown food?
           General Questions
               More in Base
               Number of RCX bricks?
               Table Boundaries
           Miscellaneous
               Table set up
           Open the Gate
               como estas
           Play Ball
               balls to bot
               Removing Opponent Teams Center Ball
               robot movement
           Push the Chairs
           Put the CD Away
               Full and partial points
           Read the Bus Route Signs
           Remove the Glasses
           Serve Dinner
           Strategy Questions
               Can you open door from inside
       Tournamant Director's Forum
           Competition Floor Questions
           imperfections in the mats
           Internationals in GA
   Feedback
       Challenge kickoff feedback
   Make International Contact - [for ALL members]
       Internationals in Georgia [US]
   TEAM MENTORING
       Do you want a veteran team to mentor your team?
           Laser Tech 3525
       Do you want to mentor a team?
   WORLD FESTIVAL

Folder: - BRAZIL - [for Brazilian members] 04/06/2005 22:06:57 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Brazil in this folder.




Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/23/2005 00:33:12 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers

Discussion: Internationals em Atlanta, Ge*rgia By: RobotRulers776 02/23/2005 00:33:12 GMT
Quem s*o as equipes que v*o ao Internationals em Atlanta, Ge*rgia? N*s somos as r*guas do rob* L3 de york novo ocidental e gostar*amos de saber quem est* indo. Afixe por favor sua resposta no dobrador unido dos estados sob variado e ent*o sob o festival do mundo do dobrador 1 em Atlanta, Ge*rgia. R*guas Do Rob* Dos Agradecimentos L3

Discussion: Tempo das miss*es No Limits !!! By: ateneu 04/06/2005 22:06:57 GMT
Alguma equipe conseguiu completar todas as miss*es no tempo determinado pela regra ???

  1. Message by: Inovares 03/28/2005 21:19:52 GMT
    Ainda n*o estamos testando o rob*. Estamos encontrando muitas dificuldades!


    1. Message by: ateneu 04/06/2005 22:06:57 GMT
      Duvidas ???

      Todos nos temos !!!!

      mrsalles@ig.com.br


    2. Message by: GMT


Discussion: Carregar pilhas carreg*veis sem retirar do rob* By: imaculada 04/06/2005 22:03:02 GMT
Alguem sabe como?

  1. Message by: ateneu 04/06/2005 22:03:02 GMT
    Boa tarde..

    Troque pilha a pilha, uma de cada vez, assim voce n*o perde o programa!!!
    Um abra*o Boa Sorte...


Discussion: b*nus By: Inovares 04/06/2005 22:05:51 GMT
o que * um objeto b*nus? Iniciamos as miss*es com b*nus? Quantos?

  1. Message by: ateneu 04/06/2005 22:05:51 GMT
    Cada bola ou cadiera * um tipo de bonus, iniciamos com todos os bonus, cada vez que voce usa a mao para come*ar uma miss*o errada voce perde bonus...

    Um Abra*o

    Prof. Marcelo R. Salles



Folder: - CANADA - [for Canadian members] 02/15/2005 00:47:44 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Canada in this folder.


Folder: Internationals in GA 02/15/2005 00:47:44 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers


Folder: The Basket 11/16/2004 05:38:42 GMT
once there is a ball in the hoop, do they remove it?

Discussion: no By: Hakuna_Matata435 11/16/2004 05:38:42 GMT
no, of course not. then the other team could do it as well, and the whole point was that only one tam could do it since the basket isnt big enough for 2

  1. Message by: The Computer Viruses378 10/19/2004 22:50:12 GMT
    hi we live in the U.S. and are having fun learning best wishes
    the computer viruses


    1. Message by: blt663 11/11/2004 03:04:49 GMT
      Hi we are in Ajax Ontario Canada! What are you having trouble with anything the computer virses? We are we don't know how many food (lego pieces) go in the food tray because it doesn't say in the rules
      The BLT's
      Building Lego Together


      1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 11/11/2004 03:17:21 GMT
        All of the 2 x 2 round pieces go in the bowl, except the three/ 2 x 2 round black pieces they go to the cat and dog.


    2. Message by: computer nerds 11/16/2004 05:38:42 GMT
      But even if the other team gets it in first, u can take theirs out and put yours in because it is the ball that is in there in the end when it is over that gets the points.


    3. Message by: GMT


Discussion: les lunettes By: tezenas 11/15/2004 03:09:44 GMT
par quel cot* on prend les lunettes(le plus facile c'est lequel)?

  1. Message by: Tri-City GCA Robo-Runners3320 10/25/2004 17:13:07 GMT
    je pense que c'est plus facile de le prendre par le devant.Si tu met quelque chose dans le troue ou le glace va.


    1. Message by: computer nerds 11/15/2004 03:09:44 GMT
      tu peut just les pousser par le derrier, je pense que ca vas etre plus facille.


Discussion: Events/Teams in Ontario? By: CalvinPark1711 11/16/2004 05:44:36 GMT
Hi Everyone -

We're looking to find other teams in Ontario and information on any events this season - so far there is only one item listed on the site. Anybody out there?

- Alan

  1. Message by: IceChips1568 09/18/2004 21:04:04 GMT
    Hi we're the Ice Chips (team 1568). We are a rookie team from North Bay made up of kids from grade 6-8, all from different schools. We too are looking for competition information as we will have to arrange transportation and hotels. Last year there was an event at Crescent School in Toronto at the end of November. Would it be possible if somebody from that school could let us know any dates or if they are having a competition again? Thanks.


    1. Message by: Gyrophobia1263 09/19/2004 04:42:27 GMT
      Hi We're Gyrophobia from Brampton and Georgetown. Yes there will be a GREAT competition at Crescent School this year, I'm pretty sure. Visit FLL Canada at http://fllcanada.org/
      or contact David Grant at this e-mail.
      DGrant@crescentschool.org

      There also another great tournament in Windsor, Ontario in November. Contact Chris Roll at
      crolls@ford.com


      1. Message by: CalvinPark1711 09/20/2004 03:07:50 GMT
        Hi -

        Great to see that there are people out there! It would be nice if there was a link to the fflcanada.org site on the main FLL site... it has been pretty frustrating trying to find information up until now.

        Does anyone know what the details are for the provincial tournament? Is there a restriction on the number of teams that can participate and are there qualifier events like in some of the states? We are considering putting together a second team here, but want to make sure that there will be events to go to!

        - Alan


    2. Message by: IceChips1568 09/20/2004 02:15:09 GMT
      Thanks for the update on the fllcanada link. Believe it or not, with all the time I spend on the first web site (both for ego and senior robotics), I never knew about this site. Thanks again.


    3. Message by: leafsrule789 09/21/2004 18:56:38 GMT
      Greetings to everyone.

      We are a rookie team from Elia Middle School in Toronto.
      'Look forward to meeting everyone sometime this season.


    4. Message by: FLLcanada 09/23/2004 17:25:53 GMT
      Hi everyone,

      I will do my best to locate as many teams as possible, and add them to this web site.

      fancy


    5. Message by: TechSavvy926 09/30/2004 01:07:06 GMT
      can you bring the basket back to base and load it manually?


      1. Message by: SMART 1 09/30/2004 16:43:48 GMT
        Don't have the link handy, but in another thread someone posted a ruling that this would be considered "field damage".

        I'd look around to confirm.

        - Peter


    6. Message by: leafsrule789 10/01/2004 13:55:41 GMT
      Is the Toronto regional event listed for Nevember 20 a prerequisite for attending the provincial event?

      Cheers,

      Phil


    7. Message by: dragonfire2885 10/16/2004 17:14:09 GMT
      Hello

      In St. Catharines, Ontario, we have two teams: Dragonfire2885 and LimitationZero3996. Both teams are in their rookie year and are exited to be participating. The teams consist of grade 7-8 students from Dale wood Public School.


    8. Message by: Rockcliffe 10/16/2004 18:12:05 GMT
      Hello,

      My name is Tania and I am new to the FLL stuff! I have a team of graded 8 students from Toronto. Would anyone be interested in being my mentor?

      Thanks,

      Tania


      1. Message by: Alex Doner 10/21/2004 04:42:44 GMT
        Hi and welcome to FLL. I can help. What do you need.


    9. Message by: star angels 10/19/2004 22:52:11 GMT
      nov. 13


    10. Message by: star angels 10/19/2004 22:56:24 GMT
      hi we are the star angels there is a fll tournament on nov.13


    11. Message by: Helping Hands 2098 10/26/2004 23:21:43 GMT
      Hi

      Sorry we are late checking in. We are the Helping Hands and if anyone one has questions post them here.


    12. Message by: Hawks1496 11/08/2004 23:46:31 GMT
      We are the Hetherington Hawks from Windsor, we are having our event at St. Clair College


    13. Message by: computer nerds 11/16/2004 05:44:36 GMT
      "can you bring the basket back to base and load it manually?"

      No! If you could do that it would be unfair for the other team because they have to but thier balls in the same hoop and eather way, it is conserded field damage so the reffere would put it back in place.


    14. Message by: GMT


Discussion: basket mission By: xtreme_robots 11/16/2004 05:32:19 GMT
can we repeat this mission several times to accumulate points.
for example can we put more than one ball in the central part of the basket

xtreme_robots

  1. Message by: star angels 10/19/2004 22:58:11 GMT
    no only 1 ball


    1. Message by: star angels 10/19/2004 22:58:32 GMT
      yes u can not


    2. Message by: longhorns3143 11/01/2004 03:02:19 GMT
      Only one ball can be in it at the end of the match


    3. Message by: computer nerds 11/15/2004 03:11:20 GMT
      But the other team can take it out and put thiers in


    4. Message by: Tri-City GCA Robo-Runners3320 11/15/2004 06:40:39 GMT
      You are allowed to do that, but it is impossible to fit 2 balls in the basket. You can put more balls in the outer ring for 5 points each. You also get 2 points for every ball on the field that is not in the base or basket.


    5. Message by: computer nerds 11/16/2004 05:32:19 GMT
      But u can take out your opponents ball and but your's in insted because it is only the ball in the hoop at the end that gets points and it is fair to take your opponent's ball out.


Discussion: general question By: Tri-City GCA Robo-Runners3320 12/05/2004 22:23:13 GMT
Hi! we're a new team with no previous experience. As one of the coaches I'm still confused by the whole challenge. I understand that we build a robot that completes the missions, and do the research project and present that, but do we actually build a separate robot to fulfil the challenge of something that helps someone with disabilities? Does the mission robot have to be able to perform all the missions without modification between?
We're having fun, and because we started late (only 3 weeks ago) we're not worrying about winning the big prize, but we'd still like to be sure to fulfill all the requirements.
thanks for any advice!

  1. Message by: Alex Doner 10/21/2004 04:17:08 GMT
    Welcome to First Lego League!!! Your attitude of having fun and inspiring kids in science and technology is what FIRST is all about. The research project does not specify that you "build" a seperate robot but what a great idea!! Maybe the plans/idea for a "seperate robot" would be a focus for the teams research robot.
    The mission robot is allowed to be modified when it comes into base. Your team can add/remove parts to the robot to accomplish different missions.
    Question: Any ideas of your team coming to Ontario?
    Check out www.fllcanada.org


    1. Message by: Tri-City GCA Robo-Runners3320 10/23/2004 15:52:21 GMT
      Alex: thanks for the informative reply! We're still getting to know the kit and the missions, so we've got a ways to go to do some serious programming and building, but we're sure excited.
      I'm pretty sure we won't be travelling to compete - we don't have a sponsor besides our local gifted kids assoc., which only covers part of the kit cost, and we don't really have time to get more sponsors for other costs, so we're doing this on a shoestring. Maybe next year!
      David


    2. Message by: Menace3687 11/12/2004 03:14:40 GMT
      Hi There,
      We are a new team this year ! We have been constantly working for a month. It has been hard work but it has been fun. We have a robot and a piece for the research project.
      Question - At the tourney are tables set up for us to lay the mats on or are we working on the floor ? Do I need to bring the border rails.... can do if necessary. We compete in the Halton Regional November 13.
      Thanks


    3. Message by: computer nerds 11/15/2004 03:13:50 GMT
      They will have tables for the competition but u need to bring yours to practice


    4. Message by: Meridian Heights 3856 11/17/2004 01:30:04 GMT
      Is it necessary to hand in a written report as part of the research project. We were also wondering how much space we have to set up our presentation.

      m.h.s. magic


    5. Message by: computer nerds 11/17/2004 05:07:56 GMT
      I'm pretty sure we dont


    6. Message by: computer nerds 11/21/2004 22:59:13 GMT
      Does anyone have any ideas for places that are wheelchair accessible? Let us konw! Thanks!


    7. Message by: computer nerds 11/21/2004 23:02:10 GMT
      We need awnswers asap!


    8. Message by: computer nerds 11/21/2004 23:03:56 GMT
      Hi there, this is the Computer Nerds, We were woundering if you had any ideas of places that are wheelchair accessable?
      Thanks please reply soon

      The Computer Nerds


    9. Message by: Tri-City GCA Robo-Runners3320 11/22/2004 20:37:06 GMT
      What kind of places are you looking for? Most public buildings like city hall, rec centres and libraries that are less than 15 years old have been built with accessibility in mind, and some older buildings have been upgraded. Even schools have had to become more accessible with ramps and elevators.
      Good Luck!


    10. Message by: computer nerds 12/05/2004 22:23:13 GMT
      Thanks....we will keep that in mind!

      Computer Nerds
      Robotics Team


Discussion: pieces - please help! By: Tri-City GCA Robo-Runners3320 11/15/2004 03:15:40 GMT
We have just finished all the mission parts but it seems that we won't have enough pieces to build a robot. We need the mission parts but we also need the robot. What should we do???

  1. Message by: robosolution1551 11/08/2004 17:58:59 GMT
    one way to solve this is to order more lego but that costs more money. perhaps one of yur team members has some parts at home. or just skip some tasks. it will lose you points but it may be your only choice.


    1. Message by: Tri-City GCA Robo-Runners3320 11/10/2004 14:44:06 GMT
      Thanks. Is this common? It seems odd that so many pieces would be used up before we even start the robot. Do most people add their own Lego?


      1. Message by: SMART 1 11/10/2004 15:06:31 GMT
        How many kits do you have? If you have only one kit, then it's easy to run out of parts you are using a lot of.

        There are ways to order individual parts for example from
        PITSCO or Bricklink, but from a value perspective you are usually better off getting another kit. A regular Mindstorms kit is a good addition to your collection and can sometimes be found at a discount.

        - Peter


    2. Message by: pcans1837 11/10/2004 16:31:37 GMT
      We had all team members donate a number of lego pieces from home. Pieces from Technic kits are the most useful.


    3. Message by: Tri-City GCA Robo-Runners3320 11/11/2004 20:00:41 GMT
      Thanks - both good ideas. We'll try asking all the members to bring in some Technic pieces to supplement.


    4. Message by: computer nerds 11/15/2004 03:15:40 GMT
      You shoud get the mat kit and another kit for building the robot that comes with an RCX.


Discussion: light sensor By: robosolution1551 11/11/2004 03:07:14 GMT
how does the light sensor work? does the red button flash when ready and then the white when light is sensed. Please help i am running out of time.

  1. Message by: blt663 11/11/2004 03:07:14 GMT
    the light sensor is only red. It will stop when you want it to see the color white or red. You can tell it to do that on the program
    The BAT's
    Building Lego Together


Discussion: logging out By: robosolution1551 11/11/2004 20:10:22 GMT
i can't figure out how to log out!!!!!!!!!!!! please help

  1. Message by: Tri-City GCA Robo-Runners3320 11/06/2004 18:41:40 GMT
    If you're talking about this forum, I don't think you have to log out - just leave the page.


    1. Message by: blt663 11/11/2004 03:09:32 GMT
      What teams are you?
      We are the BAT
      Bacon lettuce tomato!
      Kidding!
      Building Lego Together!
      Where are you from and how are you doing?
      Are you going to any compitions?
      We are! See you there!


    2. Message by: blt663 11/11/2004 03:09:49 GMT
      What teams are you?
      We are the BLT
      Bacon lettuce tomato!
      Kidding!
      Building Lego Together!
      Where are you from and how are you doing?
      Are you going to any compitions?
      We are! See you there!


    3. Message by: blt663 11/11/2004 03:10:14 GMT
      Forget about the 2nd one up!
      It is messed up!


    4. Message by: Tri-City GCA Robo-Runners3320 11/11/2004 20:10:22 GMT
      We are the Tri-City GCA Robo Runners. We are in and from B.C.
      We are going to a tournament but probably not the same as yours. Unless we win ours and you win yours then we would go the championship and face each other. Hope that happens.
      Bye


Discussion: Teams and Tournaments By: computer nerds 12/07/2004 20:46:00 GMT
If you click on teams and tournaments and go there, what do you do if your team doesnt show up? Please help!

  1. Message by: computer nerds 11/16/2004 05:46:02 GMT
    I dont know what to do! Help! The teams and tournaments link doesnt show our team, what do we do. Plz help. We would like all the help we can get.


    1. Message by: SMART 1 11/16/2004 15:38:53 GMT
      I'm not sure how to fix that, but it honestly doesn't matter. You are obviously on the forum so no problem there. And the team list on the Teams and Tournaments page has nothing to do with which tournaments you are signed up for. Contact whoever is organizing your tournaments and confirm with them that you are in their tournament.

      The teams and tournaments page is supposed to show what tournaments are in that state (or country), and what teams from that state are registered in the _forum_.

      - Peter


    2. Message by: computer nerds 11/20/2004 01:19:51 GMT
      Not very nice saying it does not matter!!!!!!!!!


    3. Message by: Super Novas 12/07/2004 20:46:00 GMT
      hello were the super novas we know what to do unlike some people.we are done please send us a message.



Folder: - CHINA - [for Chinese members] 02/15/2005 00:55:42 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns China in this folder.


Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/15/2005 00:55:42 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers


Folder: Zhong Guo 01/23/2005 06:06:16 GMT


Discussion: yo buy for thirty five dollar, i rip you off By: robosolution1551 01/23/2005 06:06:16 GMT
35 dollar boy

Discussion: hints and tips By: Innovators1120 11/25/2004 18:44:25 GMT


  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/04/2004 13:14:24 GMT
    We like you because you have the same number like ours!
    we are coming from Germany. Good luck for the challenge! Se you sometimes! Bye!


    1. Message by: Anonymous49 11/25/2004 18:44:25 GMT
      Hi im from Uk and I need an arm.



Folder: - DEUTSCHLAND - [for German, Austrian and Switzerland members] 09/19/2005 16:43:11 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Germany, Austria and Switzerland in this folder


Folder: Details zum Regionalwettbewerb 11/02/2004 15:40:17 GMT


Discussion: Zuschauer By: PPG04 11/02/2004 09:48:08 GMT
Hall*chen ihr da drau*en,
ich vom Team Paulus-Pretorius-Gymnasium(wir suchen noch nach einem coolen Namen)wollte mal wissen ob die Begleitperson(Eltern)
auch igendwie eine Chance haben zuzusehen!?! Zum Beispiel *bertragung im Internet oder dort auf einer Leinwand!?!
Unseren Konkurenten noch viele Gr**e.

Konstantin Schlaaff

PS: Macht euch mal nichts vor, wir gewinnen eh!!!

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/28/2004 20:17:21 GMT
    Selber Hall*chen,

    am ehesten ne Chance was zu sehen, haben eure Eltern usw. zuzuschauen, wenn sie Live dabei sind. In Bocholt war letztes Jahr um die Wettkampffelder ein Zuschauerbereich angelegt. Internet oder Videowand w*sst ich jetz nich. Bei welchem Regionalwettbewerb seid Ihr denn? Ich denk mal das liegt ganz an dem jeweiligen Veranstalter.

    Und gibts schon nen Namen?
    Sch*ne Gr**e von der Konkurrenz aus dem netten M*nsterland.

    MfG
    Der Ober-Robotron

    PS: Robotron rockt!


    1. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 09:48:08 GMT
      nichts


Discussion: technikpr*sentation By: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 15:40:17 GMT
was muss man bei der technikpr*sentation eigentlich machen


Folder: Fragen Anregungen zu Regeln und Aufgaben 12/02/2004 15:27:21 GMT



Folder: A Legt die CD zur*ck 10/22/2004 12:10:58 GMT


Discussion: Ab wann gibts volle punkte?? By: Robotron2.0_1029 10/22/2004 12:10:58 GMT
Ab wann gibts f*r die CD-Geschichte volle punkte? muss die CD die H*lle nur ber*hren oder vollst*ndig auf der CD-H*lle liegen?
In der Anleitung steht "CD ber*hrt die H*lle". Klingt etwas schwammig, oder?

  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 09/28/2004 16:52:56 GMT
    die cd muss nach meiner meinung komplett auf der cd-h*lle liegen! sonst w*rs schwachsinn oder?


    1. Message by: Legoreds 09/28/2004 21:37:39 GMT
      Es reicht wenn die CD nur die H*lle ber*hrt:

      Jonas


    2. Message by: Healthy_Robots 10/22/2004 11:00:16 GMT
      Was denn nun?


    3. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/22/2004 12:10:58 GMT
      CD ber*hrt H*lle sagt ja alles aus
      ber*hren heisst nicht vollst*ndig auf der H*lle!



Folder: Allgemeines 11/11/2004 15:39:05 GMT


Discussion: mehrere roboter? By: magiccreators1120 10/05/2004 18:31:28 GMT
kann man eigentlich den kompletten roboter bis auf den rcx tauschen?

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/29/2004 17:15:52 GMT
    Ich denke ja, solange man dann nicht die Begrenzung der Elektronik-Teile *berschreitet.


    1. Message by: robofreaks1010 10/05/2004 18:31:28 GMT
      Man darf in den unterschiedlichen Runden mit verschiedenen Modellen antreten. Baut doch einfach mehrere Modelle, jeweils mit einem eigenen RCX. Wenn ihr dann in der einen Runde nicht zufrieden wart, dann nehmt ihr das andere Modell.


Discussion: `wie viele programme? By: magiccreators1120 10/02/2004 12:10:48 GMT
wie viele programme darf man eigentlich haben? darf man zwischendurch die programme des rcx *ndern?

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/29/2004 17:19:28 GMT
    Zwischen den einzelnen Runden kann man so viel programmieren bis der IrDa-Sender brennt! Es gibt keine Begrenzung.


    1. Message by: robofreaks1010 10/02/2004 12:10:48 GMT
      Dazu habt ihr gar keine Zeit. Die 2,5 mINUTEN SIND SOWIESO EXTREM KNAPP: WISSEN WIR AUS DEM LETZTEN JAHR:


Discussion: Zeit By: Robotron2.0_1029 11/02/2004 11:41:14 GMT
Ich finde die Zeit (150 Sekunden) ziemlich knapp.
Wie seht ihr das?

  1. Message by: robofreaks1010 10/05/2004 18:30:18 GMT
    Stimmt, aber man muss sich *berlegen, welchen Aufgaben man den Vorrang gibt. Man kann kaum alle Aufgaben in dieser Zeit schaffen. Aber man kann ja auch den Roboter per Hand zur*ckholen.


    1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/08/2004 17:32:12 GMT
      Das gibt doch Punktabzug wenn man den zur*ckholt. Wieviel ziehen die denn da wohl ab?

      MfG
      Der Ober-Robotron


    2. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 11:41:14 GMT
      Es gibt pro Anfassen des Roboters 10 Punkte Abzug! Lohnt sich also nicht... :,)


Discussion: Art des Antriebs eures Roboters ? By: Lego_SAP_Kids1132 11/09/2004 23:43:36 GMT
Hallo liebe Mitbewerber,

in unserem Team haben wir uns gefragt, welche Art von Antrieb man wohl am besten verwenden sollte. Aufgrund der Aufgabe mit den Stufen sind wir eher auf ein "Raupenfahrzeug" gekommen, da R*der oder *hnliches hier viel zu rutschig sind.

Und eine Wechsel der kompletten Antriebs-Technik zwischen den Aufgaben innerhalb der 150 Sekunden erscheint uns sehr zeitaufwendig und daher unpraktikabel.

Wie denkt ihr dar*ber ?

MfG, Markus (Vize-Coach Lego_SAP_Kids1132)

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/05/2004 14:44:22 GMT
    Ich teile deine Ueberlegungen

    Aber das ist ja die herausforderung der ganzen Aufgabe

    Einerseits musss man schnell sein - auf der andern Seite muss man auf die Rampe kommen - Also Ideen sind gefragr

    PS Im Lego Mindstorms Forum gabs k*rzlich einen Community Contest Aufgabe Treppen steigen.


    1. Message by: Healthy_Robots 10/22/2004 10:49:11 GMT
      Lass ihn doch fliegen ;-)


    2. Message by: Legoreds 11/06/2004 13:06:06 GMT
      Nat*rlich, unser Roboter fliegt auch 15cm *ber der Platte.
      Deswegen haben wir mit den Stufen keine Probleme. Und Kurven brauchen wir auch keine, da wir ja den direkten weg nehmen k*nnen.


    3. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/09/2004 23:43:36 GMT
      jaja, diese Lego-Hover-Module sind schon gro*e klasse ...


Discussion: Was bleibt aufgebaut? By: LFS-Robot 10/31/2004 22:28:48 GMT
Hallo,

kann uns jemand verraten, ob die einzelnen Objekte aufgebaut bleiben, wenn sie gar nicht gebraucht werden?
Konkret:
Der Tisch und die St*hle sind uns im Weg bei bestimmten Aufgaben.

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/20/2004 22:39:44 GMT
    die bleiben da wo sie sind wenn sie st*ren musst sie mit dem roboter beiseite schieben(tisch wird schwierig)


    1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/31/2004 22:28:48 GMT
      wenn die Antriebsleisung stimmt hat da auch der Tisch nix zu lachen *g* ...


Discussion: Start Wichtig!!! By: robotlions des fes 11/11/2004 15:39:05 GMT
Darf ein Teil des Roboters vorm Start aus der Base herausragen, wenn es nicht den Boden ber*hrt (Lichtsensor!!!)

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 11/11/2004 15:39:05 GMT
    Theoretisch NEIN !

    Praktisch wird nicht gemessen wenn es um paar mm geht
    -> Erfahrung aus dem Regional Finale vom 10.11


Discussion: Start Wichtig!!! By: robotlions des fes 11/11/2004 15:28:30 GMT
Darf ein Teil des Roboters, der in der Luft h*ngt z.B. ein Lichtsensor vor dem Start *ber der Startlinie h*ngen???


Folder: B Play Basketball 11/11/2004 15:22:15 GMT


Discussion: Beladen des Balles in der Base By: RoboCare1095 10/14/2004 10:56:58 GMT
F*r mich ist nicht klar ob der Ball in der Base vom Roboter selber geladen werden muss oder ob der von Hand auf den Roboter gelegt werden darf. Wie sehr ihr das?

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 09/16/2004 20:55:54 GMT
    Die B*lle k*nnen auf dem Roboter mit der Hand gestellt werden, w*hrend der Roboter noch in der Basis ist.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    Team web site


    1. Message by: Legoreds 09/16/2004 21:09:19 GMT
      ja klar. Das schwere ist nur den Korb zu treffen.

      Jonas


    2. Message by: RoboCare1095 09/16/2004 21:14:14 GMT
      Ja so klar ist das aber aus den Regeln nicht ersichtlich


    3. Message by: basics1090 09/16/2004 21:15:01 GMT
      Auf Seite 4 der Datei FLL2004_SPIELFELD_AUFGABENK.DOC steht klar, dass die B*lle in der Basis per Hand auf den Roboter geladen werden.


      1. Message by: avaloq123 09/17/2004 13:57:38 GMT
        und der Link zu FLL2004_SPIELFELD_AUFGABENK.DOC ?


        1. Message by: RoboCare1095 09/17/2004 14:48:40 GMT
          Die Datei wurde per Mail versandt


          1. Message by: basics1090 09/21/2004 19:05:40 GMT
            Die Datei ist dem Teamcoch per E-mail geschickt worden. Die Inhalte befinden sich aber auch am Ende der Seite: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15570
            (Link "Spielfeld und Platzierung" im Abschnitt Wettbewerb 2004 auf ideser Website.


    4. Message by: RoboCare1095 09/16/2004 21:26:52 GMT
      UPS

      Danke das hab ich *bersehen


    5. Message by: Legoreds 09/18/2004 09:19:37 GMT
      Au*erdem ist das bei fast allen Sachen so!

      Jonas


    6. Message by: TechSavvy926 09/30/2004 01:00:55 GMT
      K*nnen Sie den Korb zur*ck zu Unterseite holen und ihn eigenh*ndig laden?


    7. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/30/2004 17:16:10 GMT
      Der Roboter darf aber KEINE Aufgabe von der Base aus erledigen, er muss aufs Feld fahren(aus der Base raus).


    8. Message by: Trittau Team 1094 10/10/2004 20:45:51 GMT
      Hallo,

      wozu ist denn der basket-holder gedacht (dieses flache schwarze Ding mit kegelartigen Aus*tzen)?


    9. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/13/2004 21:43:38 GMT
      Der wird auf den in der Mitte (siehe Aufbauanleitung/Regelwerk) verdoppelten Spielfeldrand gepappt. dann l*sst sich der Korb zwischen den orangen Pinnen einhaken. Das ist daf*r, dass der Korb nicht so leicht verrutscht.


      1. Message by: Trittau Team 1094 10/14/2004 10:56:58 GMT
        Vielen Dank, inzwischen hatte ich es auch "schon" herausgefunden!


Discussion: Werfen der B*lle By: BerlinFighters1002 11/11/2004 15:22:15 GMT
Wie weit mu* der Roboter aus der Basis entfernt sein um zum Beispiel die B*lle in den Korb zu bef*rdern ? Reicht es auch wenn er nur gestartet wird ?

  1. Message by: nn1124_m 10/05/2004 12:56:22 GMT
    Werden geworfene B*lle aus dem Korb entfernt, sodass wiederholt Punkte gemacht werden k*nnen?
    Parabots


    1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/05/2004 13:05:59 GMT
      Wie ich es beurteile NEIN

      Es kann also nur ein Team seine Kugel im weissen Korb plazieren.


    2. Message by: robotlions des fes 11/11/2004 15:22:15 GMT
      Kann man die B*lle mit einer besonderen Konstruktion auch in den Korb legen???( mit einem Greifarm oder so


Discussion: Wie viele B*lle darf man aus der Base mitnehmen? By: Healthy_Robots 09/30/2004 17:17:16 GMT
Darf man alle auf einmal nehmen oder nicht

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/30/2004 17:17:16 GMT
    Immer nur EIN Ball.
    PS: Steht auch in den Regeln



Folder: C Erklimmt die Stufen 11/07/2004 22:39:09 GMT


Discussion: Muss man von vorne auf die Stufen fahren By: Legoreds 10/16/2004 19:47:41 GMT
Muss man von vorne auf die Stufen fahren oder darf man auch von der seite hoch?

Jonas

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 09/20/2004 08:50:19 GMT
    Das ist nicht definiert - Es ist lediglich definiert wo der bot stehen muss um volle oder Teilpunkte zu erhlaten

    - also gehe ich davon aus dass auf der Seite hoch erlaubt ist


    1. Message by: Legoreds 09/21/2004 17:48:12 GMT
      Ok danke


    2. Message by: wisrds1084 09/22/2004 16:19:05 GMT
      Ich glaube man sollte von der Seite hochgehen, denn in den Regeln steht dass man nur einen Teil der Punkte kriegt wenn man die anderen Stufen beruehrt. Ich bin mir aber nicht sicher ob das stimmt, denn vielleicht meint man dass mit den anderen Stufen nur wenn der Robi mal ganz oben ist.

      Annina von den wISRds(die jetzt noch International School Rheinthal heisst)


    3. Message by: Legoreds 09/22/2004 19:58:01 GMT
      Genau das ist gemeint wenn der Roboter am ende noch die unteren Stufen ber*ht gibt es nur teilpunkte.

      Aber von der Seite ist besse: Umso weniger Kurven um so besser!! Meine Meinung


    4. Message by: Rover Kids1011 10/16/2004 19:47:41 GMT
      Tja,tja falsche F*hrte Legoreds.
      Aber,ob alle darauf h*ren?


Discussion: D*rfen Teile abfallen? By: Chaos Designer 1075 09/28/2004 16:53:44 GMT
Gibt es volle Punktzahl, wenn der Roboter auf der obersten Stufe steht aber einzelne Teile abgefallen sind?

  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 09/28/2004 16:53:44 GMT
    wenns dich nich behindert wenn teile abfallen!


Discussion: Mit Rampe By: Legoreds 09/29/2004 21:32:30 GMT
Darf der Roboter mit einer Rampe, die dann sp*ter vor den Stufen liegt, auf die Stufen fahren.

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/29/2004 21:32:30 GMT
    Die Idee hatten wir auch schon. Wie wird das denn gewertet wenn da noch ne rampe auf dem Feld liegt? Z*hlt die zum Roboter? Der muss die ja auch erst mal da hingeschmissen haben, was die Rampe zu einem Teil des Roboters macht, oder?


Discussion: Wann gibt es mehr Punkte? By: Healthy_Robots 11/07/2004 22:39:09 GMT
Wenn man gans oben ist,oder wenn man beide Stangen ber*hrt?

  1. Message by: Robokids1156 11/07/2004 22:39:09 GMT
    as gift bur vole Punktzahl(45Pkt.), wen her Roboter auk her obersten Stufe steht und das Gel*nder ber*hrt.
    PS: Steht in der Punkteverteilung
    robokids


Discussion: stufen By: magiccreators1120 10/15/2004 15:34:41 GMT
muss man, wenn man auf der treppe ist, wieder zur*ck zur base?

  1. Message by: WoinemRobonnics48 10/14/2004 15:37:20 GMT
    So wie wir es verstehen muss der Roboter oben bleiben, das heisst dies muss die letzte Aufgabe sein.


    1. Message by: Robokids 10/15/2004 15:34:41 GMT
      Sehn wir auch so! Ist zwar etwas komisch, aber wenn sie es so wollen!



Folder: D F*ttert die Haustiere 10/22/2004 19:00:28 GMT



Folder: Wo sind die Futterst*cke? 11/01/2004 10:34:10 GMT
Bei unserem Challenge Set waren keine Futterst*cke dabei. War das bei euch auch so,wenn ja was habt ihr gemacht.


Discussion: Futterst*cke By: Robotron2.0_1029 10/05/2004 22:50:19 GMT
Meine lieben Stadtlohner!
Die Futterst*cke sind drei schwarze runde Steine mit vier Noppen. Die m*ssten *brig geblieben sein...

MfG
Der Ober-Robotron
(ehemaliger HLR-Sch*ler)

  1. Message by: Healthy_Robots 10/04/2004 13:27:49 GMT
    Die sind nicht da ganz sicher. Unsere dunkelsten sind blau durchsichtig


    1. Message by: Lego_SAP_Kids1132 10/05/2004 14:07:35 GMT
      Die Futterst*cke sind aus ca. 5 Teilen zusammengebaut.
      Wir hatten daf*r eine Aufbauanleitung und haben uns beim
      Aufbau dann auch gewundert, dass diese 3 zusammengebauten Teile noch *brig waren. Sind vornehmlich schwarze Bauteile.
      Und ziemlich unhandlich.

      MfG, Markus (Vize-Coach Lego_SAP_Kids1132)


    2. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/05/2004 22:50:19 GMT
      Markus von LEgo_SAP_Kids: Du meinst doch nicht etw die teile, die in der Bauanleitung als "Sign Holder" *berschrieben werden? Deine beschreibung passt wohl darauf.
      Die hab ich n*mlich auch erst daf*r gehalten. Das sind Halter f*r die Fahnen am Rand. schaut euch mal genau die Anleitung an.

      Healthy Robots: Schaut mal unter "Serviert das essen" im Forum nach. Da wurde das mit dem mysteri*sen Futter auch schon diskutiert.
      An eurer Stelle w*rde ich mich mal bei Frau Riedel von Hands on Technology beschweren und mir solche schwarzen Pr*ffkes von zuhause aus der Legokiste mitbringen.


Discussion: futterst*cke By: magiccreators1120 11/01/2004 10:34:10 GMT
d*rfen die futterst*cke aufeinander gesteckt werden

Discussion: Alle Futterst*cke auf einmal oder eins nach dem anderen ? By: Lego_SAP_Kids1132 10/05/2004 14:46:11 GMT
Hallo liebe Mitbewerber,
wir haben uns gefragt, ob wir wirklich die 3 Teile jeweils einzeln ins Gatter fahren m*ssen, oder ob man nicht in einer Tour alle drei Futterst*cke abliefern kann ?

W*re sch*n, wenn ihr uns da helfen k*nntet.

MfG, Markus (Vize-Coach Lego_SAP_Kids1132)

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/05/2004 14:46:11 GMT
    Alle Futterst*cke d*rfen in der Base auf den Bot geladen werden

    Einschr*nkung gibts nur bei den B*llen


Discussion: *ber den Zaun werfen ? By: Healthy_Robots 10/22/2004 19:00:28 GMT
M*ssen die Futterst*cke durchs Tor transportieren
oder k*nnen wir diese *ber den Zaun bef*rdern

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/22/2004 19:00:28 GMT
    Lies die Regel genau und du hast die Antwort

    Das Futter muss durchs Tor angeliefert werden!



Folder: E Oeffnet das Tor 10/31/2004 16:36:34 GMT



Folder: Wie rum muss das tor stehen 10/13/2004 21:37:20 GMT
Hallo!

Wie rum muss dass tor stehen? So dass man es eindr*cken kann oder so dass man es auf ziehen kann?

Discussion: Tor By: Robotron2.0_1029 10/13/2004 21:37:20 GMT
Auf der Matte ist eine Seite mit dem passenden englischen Begriff gekennzeichnet.

  1. Message by: WoinemRobonnics48 10/07/2004 18:00:58 GMT
    Scheint mir leider eindeutig die schwerere Version: siehe http://www.fll-freak.com/2004/2004_table_setup.htm
    also Tor *ffnet sich weg(!!) von den Tieren, hin zum fahrenden Roboter.
    im amerikanischen Form wurde das auch diskutiert und beschrieben.


    1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/07/2004 21:09:14 GMT
      Ja ist definitiv so Tor muss aufgezogen werden!

      Andersrum w*rs ja zu einfach - Einfach durchfahren :-)


    2. Message by: Healthy_Robots 10/13/2004 13:43:30 GMT
      OK danke


    3. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/13/2004 21:37:20 GMT
      Stimmt. Ich hab bei Hands on Technology gefragt.
      Auszug aus der Antwort:

      "das Tor muss sich nach au*en *ffnen.
      Mit besten Gr**en
      Juliane Riedel"


Discussion: HINGE heisst Scharnier oder T*rangel By: Lego_SAP_Kids1132 10/31/2004 16:36:34 GMT
Auf der LEGO-Aufgaben-Matte steht das englische Wort HINGE.
Das bedeutet auf Deutsch "Scharnier" oder "T*rangel".
Nach meiner Auffassungen ist das die Seite, die sich beim *ffnen der T*r nicht bewegt und f*r das Tor den ruhenden Drehpunkt festlegt. Wir hatten am Anfang auch noch diesen Haken vergessen. Unser Tor wollte dann zuerst *berhaupt nicht offen stehen bleiben. Gl*cklicherweise hat unser Team-Mitglied Hannes den Fehler gleich bemerkt und behoben.

MfG, Markus (Vize-Coach Lego_SAP_Kids1132)

  1. Message by: Crazy Robots 1131 10/31/2004 16:36:34 GMT
    Das Tor *ffnet sich auf den Roboter zu. Aufschieben ist nicht :-/ (es sei denn man f*hrt durch den T*mpel :-) )



Folder: F Erkenne die Busstrecke 10/21/2004 14:15:22 GMT


Discussion: Ideen By: Robotron2.0_1029 10/05/2004 23:03:09 GMT
Ich glaub keiner will zu dieser Aufgabe seine Ideen verraten...

Ich auch nich.

  1. Message by: Lego_SAP_Kids1132 10/05/2004 14:22:45 GMT
    Na da scheint ja jemand etwas gefrustet zu sein !?

    Also ich "verrate" mal unsere Gedanken:

    Wenn die Reihenfolge der Fahnen vertauscht wird, dann gehen wir davon aus, dass die "komplette" Fahne versetzt wird. Das bedeutet, man brauch nicht nur die "Farben" des oberen Teils "anzuschauen" (mit dem Lichtsensor ?!), sondern es w*rde reichen, den unteren Teil der Fahne (der sich als rechten Winkel auf der Speilfeldumrandung befindet) mit dem Lichtsensore zu *berpr*fen. Wir vermuten, dass man dann den Sensor mechanisch besser am Roboter selbst befestigen kann.

    Seit doch so nett und fair und erz*hlt uns eure Meinung hierzu. Das "Team-Play" h*rt nicht beim eigenen Team auf!

    MfG, Markus (Vize-Coach Lego_SAP_Kids1132)


    1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/05/2004 23:03:09 GMT
      Konstrukteure sind da manchmal etwas eigen ... auch unser Getriebe-Guru.

      Bei uns ist auch eine L*sung mit dem Lichtsensor im Gespr*ch. Die Jury findet nunmal viele Sensoren so toll. Den Spass will man ihnen doch g*nnen...
      Au*erdem: wie wollt ihr das anders erkennen?
      Ich w*rde da eine Konstruse bauen, die mit einem beweglichen Arm ausger*stet ist und vom Lichtsensor gesagt bekommt, was zu tun ist.
      Den Sensor w*rde ich auch am Chassis selbst befestigen. So l*sst er sich wesentlich besser auf die farbigen Fl*chen ausrichten.


Discussion: M*ssen die schilder ganz unten sein By: Healthy_Robots 10/21/2004 14:15:22 GMT
M*ssen die Schilder ganz runter sein und damit die Umrandung ber*hren oder nur ein bisschen runter gedr*ckt werden?

  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 10/21/2004 14:15:22 GMT
    nein sie m*ssen nur sichtbar bewegt wurden sein


Discussion: M*ssen die schilder ganz unten sein By: Healthy_Robots 10/13/2004 14:28:48 GMT
M*ssen die Schilder ganz runter sein und damit die Umrandung ber*hren oder nur ein bisschen runter gedr*ckt werden?


Folder: G Schiebt die St*hle 10/07/2004 17:41:11 GMT


Discussion: St*hle By: Legoreds 09/29/2004 06:36:51 GMT
Darf der Roboter die St*hle in die Base bringen und sie von dort aus auf den Teppich bringen.

Jonas

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 09/28/2004 22:12:45 GMT
    Ich sehe keine Regel die dem widerspricht - Sie d*rfen nur nicht umfallen


    1. Message by: Legoreds 09/29/2004 06:36:51 GMT
      Gut danke

      Jonas


Discussion: Wie weit m*ssen die St*hle auf den Teppich? By: Healthy_Robots 09/30/2004 17:11:00 GMT
M*ssen die im ihneren Kreis oder irgend einen,wie viel gibt es f*r einen Stuhl

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/30/2004 17:11:00 GMT
    Alle Infos *ber die Regel findet man auf der Internetseite unter REGELN und wurden euch auch als e-mail geschickt!

    MfG M


Discussion: Ein Stuhl steht doch schon richtig??? By: WoinemRobonnics48 10/07/2004 17:41:11 GMT
Ja, ein Stuhl steht doch schon im Innern des Teppichs? Muss der zur*ckgeschoben werden? Bringt der schon so die 10 Punkte??

  1. Message by: WoinemRobonnics48 10/07/2004 17:41:11 GMT
    Ich bin auf der Singapore-Seite der FLL f*ndig geworden, da hatte jemand die gleiche Frage:

    Q: Are there free points for the chair that*s already on the rug when the match starts?

    A: Yes, as long as it still meets the requirements at the END of the match.

    Das hei*t: Der Stuhl bringt tats*chlich so wie er ist Punkte, man darf ihn nur nicht versehentlich wegschieben!



Folder: H Serviert das Essen 10/15/2004 19:25:05 GMT


Discussion: schwarzes Essen? By: magiccreators1120 10/05/2004 16:40:50 GMT
Warum m*ssen die schwarzen Steine im Korb bleiben damit man punkte kriegt? Hat das irgendeinen tieferen Grund?

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/05/2004 16:40:50 GMT
    Die schwarzen Steine geh*ren nicht in den Korb

    Der Korb mit dem Essen muss ja auf den Tisch

    Die 3 schwarzen Tierfutterst*cke m*ssen hinten auf die rote Fl*che


Discussion: 2 Fragen By: nn1124_m 10/15/2004 19:25:05 GMT
Darf eigentlich das Tablett au*erhalb der Base abgestellt werden und sp*ter wieder aufgenommen werden, um auf den Tisch gestellt zu werden?

Und noch eine Frage: Muss das Tablett in der Base vom Roboter aufgenommen werden oder kann es ihm direkt auf eine Hebevorrichtung gestellt werden?

Viele Gr**e
Manuel

  1. Message by: Robokids 10/15/2004 15:30:41 GMT
    hab die gleiche frage!


    1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/15/2004 19:25:05 GMT
      Zu Frage 1 - Es steht nirgends dass dies nicht erlaubt ist - es muss einfach per Roboter abgestellt und wieder gefasst werden
      -> Regel heisst Jegliches Ber*hren von Objekten auserhalb der Base verboten! -> Touch or die

      Das Tablett darf in der Base auf den Roboter geladen werden



Folder: I Holt die Brille 09/29/2004 17:24:17 GMT


Discussion: Holt die Gril By: robofreaks1010 09/29/2004 17:24:17 GMT


  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/29/2004 17:24:17 GMT
    Gril???


Discussion: Holt die Brille By: robofreaks1010 09/28/2004 21:58:45 GMT
Wann gilt die Brille als geholt? Wenn sie ganz in der Base ist oder wenn ein Teil, auch der kleinste, von ihr in der Base ist? Wann darf man den Roboter von der Platte nehmen, wenn er zur*ckgefahren ist, wenn er ganz in der Base ist oder wenn der erste kleine Teil von ihm in der Base ist?
Robofreaks

  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 09/28/2004 16:55:24 GMT
    die ganze brille mus in der base sein und dann kannst du auch erst den roboter rausnehmen! magiccreators


    1. Message by: Legoreds 09/28/2004 21:42:55 GMT
      Es reicht wenn ein Teil der Brille und des Roboters in der Base ist.
      So war es jedes Jahr.

      Jonas


    2. Message by: RoboCare1095 09/28/2004 21:58:45 GMT
      Roboter muss komplett zur*ck in der base sein sonst darfst ihn ja ned ber*hren


Discussion: Verwendetes Material By: robofreaks1010 10/08/2004 18:36:39 GMT
Im letzten Jahr war genau angegeben, was man alles benutzen durfte, n*mlich 3 Motoren, 1 RCX, 2 Lichtsensoren,2 Ber*hrung,1 Rotation. Ist das in diesem Jahr auch so, denn das finden wir nicht?
Darf man auch in diesem Jahr den Robo per Hand zur*ckholen, nat*rlich gegen Punktabgabe?
Wenn ja, wieviel Punkte sind das, 2 pro Ball?
Robofreaks 1010

  1. Message by: Legoreds 09/19/2004 20:46:13 GMT
    Ja ein das kostet aber ein Ball = 2 Punkte.

    Du darft die gleichen teile wie letztes Jahr benutzen.

    Alle normalen Teile die du hast.
    3 Motoren 1 RCX 2 Lichtsensoren 2 Ber*hrung 1 Rotation


    1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/22/2004 21:37:58 GMT
      Seh ich auch so. Die Elektronikteile sind begrenzt.

      Alles andere kann man drauf los verbauen, was die legokiste hergibt und lego auf den teilen draufsteht.
      Die Teile m*sssen sich aber im Originalzustand befinden.
      Das bedeutet auch, dass man die Teile mit Flutschi oder kleber nicht etwas "verbessern" darf.

      Aber was soll das, dass da keine Aufkleber sichtbar dran d*rfen?


    2. Message by: John Smith 09/24/2004 14:56:51 GMT
      Die fehlende Erlaubnis f*r Nicht-LEGO-Versch*nerungen war bei uns auch nicht gerade positiv zur Kenntnis genommen worden.

      Aber dass man beliebig viele, nicht elektrische Teile verbauen darf war mir erst vor Kurzem klar geworden. Wie war das denn so in den vergangenen Jahren? Wird das ausgenutzt und kommen teilweise richtig gro*e Modelle an? Oder ist es eher sinnvoll, sich auf die Steine im Mindstorms Set so halbwegs zu beschr*nken, da die Roboter sonst zu gro* und unhandlich w*rden?

      Und noch eine Frage zum Wettbewerb: Kann man mit verschiedenen RCX teilnehmen um sich gr**ere Umbauten in den Pausen zu ersparen? In den 2,5 Minuten auf dem Tisch darf nat*rlich immer nur einer sein - das ist klar.

      Viele Gr**e
      Manuel (Coach nn1124)


    3. Message by: robofreaks1010 09/26/2004 09:57:30 GMT
      Nach unserem Wissen darf man mit mehreren Robotern antreten, man kann ja auch identische Modelle bauen, falls mal einer herunterf*llt. Aber eben immer nur ein Modell bei einem Durchlauf benutzen. Man darf also auch unterschiedliche Programme auf den Robotern gespeichert haben.
      die Robofreaks


    4. Message by: magiccreators1120 09/28/2004 16:37:08 GMT
      ich hab auch noch nichts dazu gefunden


    5. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/29/2004 21:07:09 GMT
      Letztes jahr haben sie in Bocholt ein Team Disqualifiziert, weil sie verschiedene Roboter f*r verschiedene Aufgaben gebaut haben. Ich denke da sehen die das mit verschiedenen RCXen genauso ...

      Was das mit der Teile beschr*nkung und den unhandlichen Robotern angeht: Da hat man ja selbst einen Einfluss drauf, ob man mit mehr teileauswahl ne elegante, sichere L*sung baut oder ein 5 Kilo schweres Unget*m ...


    6. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/29/2004 21:10:11 GMT
      Ich meine das steht in der Anleitung. B*lle auf dem Spielfeld sind Bonuspunkte. Und die gibts bei Roboterber*hrung abgezogen.
      Aber keine Gew*hr daf*r.

      F*hliche Weihnachten
      Der Ober-Robotron


    7. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/30/2004 17:25:35 GMT
      Je gr**er der Roboter wird umso schwerer, langsamer und kraftloser wird er.Das sollte man dabei bedenken.


    8. Message by: topfive1111 10/08/2004 18:36:14 GMT
      muss nicht sein.man muss nur wissen wie.der dritte motor kann ja schliesslich auch beim antrieb helfen.
      aber da die aufgaben im vergleich zu den letzten beiden jahren ziemlich leicht sind(wir sind schon fast fertig=365 punkte), sollte es da ja keine probleme geben.


    9. Message by: topfive1111 10/08/2004 18:36:39 GMT
      eigentlich.


Discussion: Kann man einen 3 Motor benutzen By: LegoFredos1070 11/05/2004 22:51:26 GMT


  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 09/28/2004 16:36:05 GMT
    ja


    1. Message by: wisrds1084 10/27/2004 16:45:35 GMT
      ja nur kein 4ten


    2. Message by: Crazy Robots 1131 10/31/2004 19:00:10 GMT
      Nun, kann man zwei Werkzeuge mit je einem Motor bauen (plus 2 Motoren f*r R*der) wenn jeweils nur 3 Motoren (also Fahrgestell und jeweils ein Werkzeug) auf dem Tisch sind? Oder d*rfen nur 3 Motoren mit an den Tisch genommen werden?
      Gruss
      HoM


    3. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/05/2004 22:51:26 GMT
      ganz genau so seh ich dat. Ihr d*rft nur drei MOtoren mit an den Tisch nehmen. Sonst w*r dat ja einfach.


Discussion: Basketball By: BerlinFighters1002 09/29/2004 17:22:25 GMT
Wie weit mu* der Roboter aus der Basis raus sein um zum Beispiel die B*lle in den Korb zu bef*rdern. Reicht es, wen der Roboter lediglich gestartet wird ?
Berlin Fighter*s

  1. Message by: Legoreds 09/27/2004 17:29:46 GMT
    Glaub schon!

    Wenn ihr trefft.

    Jonas


    1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/29/2004 17:22:25 GMT
      Wie wollt ihr die Distanz *berbr*cken? Der Roboter muss in die Base passen und werfen halt ich f*r SEHR ungenau.


Discussion: aufgabenablauf By: magiccreators1120 10/03/2004 22:24:05 GMT
hi. muss man ale gegenst*nde auk em spielfeld lessen gal welche aufgabe man macht?

  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 09/28/2004 16:31:30 GMT
    nein


    1. Message by: magiccreators1120 09/28/2004 16:31:36 GMT
      doch


    2. Message by: magiccreators1120 09/28/2004 17:15:30 GMT
      vielleicht


    3. Message by: Legomania150 10/01/2004 17:43:47 GMT
      Nee muss man nicht. In den Regeln steht klipp und klar dass "Streuobjekte", die mit der Aufgabe nichts zu tun haben vom feld entfernt werden d*rfen!!!

      Jonas


    4. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/03/2004 22:24:05 GMT
      Dann erkl*r mir mal was Streuobjekte sind in dieser Aufgabe!


Discussion: aufgabenablauf By: magiccreators1120 09/28/2004 16:32:06 GMT
hi.muss man alle gegenst*nde auf dem spielfeld lassen egal welche aufgabe man macht?

Discussion: spielfeldaufbau By: magiccreators1120 10/03/2004 22:22:36 GMT
hi.muss man alle gegenst*nde auf dem spielfeld lassen egal welche aufgabe man macht? bitte beteiligt euch!

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/03/2004 22:09:22 GMT
    Was Meint Ihr mit Gegenst*nden? Irgendwelche Teile, die Ihr in der Base an den Roboter anbaut? Das kann ich nicht genau sagen. Im zweifels fall w*rde ich sagen, dass alles in die Base passen muss.

    Oder redest Du von den Objekten auf dem Spielfeld, die zu den bestimmten Aufgaben geh*ren (sprich die aus dem Challenge Set)?
    Bei denen kannste einen drauf lassen, dass die da bleiben wo die sind.
    Ansonsten w*r das nicht gerade fair f*r andere. Wenn Ihr das mit dem Tisch und den St*hlen nicht machen wollt, k*nnt Ihr ja nicht einfach den Tisch und die St*hle vor dem Start wegnehmen, damit sie nicht im Weg stehen.
    Verstehste wat ich meine?


    1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/03/2004 22:21:58 GMT
      Die Ausgangslage auf dem Spieltisch ist gegeben
      Wenn Ihr Tisch und St*hle nicht machen wollt steht euch das frei die mit dem Roboter wegzuschieben
      Was nicht erlaubt ist, ist das eliminieren von Hindernissen per Hand auch nicht vor dem Start!


Discussion: Fragen zum Regelwerk By: Caro Technikhorde1059 11/05/2004 23:01:51 GMT
Hallo,

wir haben mal ein paar Fragen zum Regelwerk:

1. Darf man innerhalb der Matchzeit (150s) den Roboter nach erf*llten Aufgaben zur*cknehmen? Oder muss er allein in die Base um ihn umzubauen?

2. Darf man einen 2ten Roboteruntersatz in der Base lagern und w*hrend des Matches den Rcx darauf umbauen? (z.B. zwei unterschiedliche Antriebe)

3. Darf man mehrere Roboter zum Wettbewerb mitnehmen und zwischen den Matches wechseln? (sich zum Beispiel beim n*chsten Match auf andere Aufgaben konzentrieren)

MfG,

Caro Technikhorde

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/30/2004 17:07:49 GMT
    Es ist nicht erlaubt mehrere RCX zu verwenden!
    Aus diesem Grund wurde letztes Jahr schon ein Team disqualifiziert.


    1. Message by: robofreaks1010 10/02/2004 12:14:57 GMT
      M*GLICHKEIT DREI IST ERLAUBT: ABER NICHT UMWECHSELN INNERHALB DER AKTEULLEN RUNDE:


    2. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/03/2004 22:18:04 GMT
      Das Zweite d*rfte von der Seite des Regelwerks auch nicht das gro*e Problem sein, solange die Teilebeschr*nkungen nicht *berschritten werden. Aber dadurch w*rdet Ihr euch selbst stark einschr*nken.

      Die Begrenzung der Elektronikteile gilt dann f*r beide Roboter zusammen, weil sie in der selben Runde eingesetzt werden. Das hei*t: 3Motoren f*r 2 Chassis mit werkzeugen dran. Wenn man bedenkt, dass man egal wie man das l*st f*r den Antrieb wenigstens 2 Motoren braucht, macht das wenig sinn ...

      M*glichkeit eins kann man schon machen, aber dann gibt es zumindest Bonuspunktabzug. und wenn Ihr dass "ganz zuf*llig" immer wieder macht, k*nnte ich mir vorstellen, dass Ihr sogar disqualifiziert werdet.

      MfG

      Der Ober-Robotron


    3. Message by: EWG Rob1 11/03/2004 11:41:37 GMT
      Werden wir disquallifiziert wenn wir den Roboter auserhalb der Base mehr als 8 mal ber*hren ?


    4. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/05/2004 22:59:53 GMT
      wie kommt ihr auf 8 mal? in einer runde 8 mal? ich w*rd sagen, die kucken dann zumindest komisch. genau kann ichs nat*rlich nich sagen. da m*sst ihr schon nachfragen


    5. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/05/2004 23:01:51 GMT
      hab zu dem Thema gerade was gefunden:

      magiccreators1120 - 10:41am Nov 2, 2004 ( 3.)

      Es gibt pro Anfassen des Roboters 10 Punkte Abzug! Lohnt sich also nicht... :,)


Discussion: Hi Leute By: magiccreators1120 11/11/2004 23:54:03 GMT
Wie gehts? Wie weit seit ihr schon? Wie findet ihr die Pr*sentationsaufgabe und die Aufgaben zur Progrmmierung? Keep cool! MB

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/05/2004 22:51:36 GMT
    Ich sach nur eins: Es brummt. Aber die Forschungssache is ja wirklich harter Tobak ...


    1. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/01/2004 12:43:08 GMT
      was wollt ihr mit tabak


    2. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/11/2004 23:54:03 GMT
      dat is ne redensart, du witzknicker ... damit mein ich, dass das nich einfach zu machen is.
      wie is denn so gelaufen bei euch? oder wart ihr noch nicht zur regionalausscheidung? wenn nich, wie l*ufts dann bei euch?


Discussion: Wie weit seid ihr schon so??? By: topfive1111 11/07/2004 14:37:12 GMT
Hallo, wir wollten mal fragen wie weit ihr so seit? Wie viel Punkte habt ihr schon?Wir liegen im Moment erst bei ca. 365 Punkten. Kann man noch ausbauen, wird langsam aber schwierig.
Freuen uns auf Antworten.

P.S.:Schon mit Forschungauftrag angefangen??

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/08/2004 19:40:57 GMT
    Wie schafft ihr das in der relativ knappen Zeit?
    --->Chiptuning???

    Erledigt ihr alle Aufgaben? Wenn nicht, Welche denn?


    1. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 10:11:30 GMT
      ihr seit l*gner ... wie kann man nur so dumm sein un d nur 365 punkte haben.lol. wir haben momentan nur ca. 1465 punkte is aber noch gut ausbauf*hig.wird langsam immer einfacher. ihr wolltet uns nur vorspielen das wir super sind und uns in sicherheit wiegen.


    2. Message by: topfive1111 11/04/2004 12:59:15 GMT
      wir haben im moment 375 punkte. wir machen alles, au*er die b*lle(5 noch *brig) in den gro*en korb auf unserer seite zu werden, deshalb keine 400 sondern nur 375.und ihr?was macht ihr so?


    3. Message by: Legoreds 11/07/2004 14:37:12 GMT
      SCHADE WIR HOLEN GERADE EINMAL 1269 PUNKTE BEI UNS WIRD ES ABER AUCH IMMER LEICHTER WENN WIR FERTIG SIND WERDEN ES CA 1726,48 PUNKTE SEIN ABER NAJ VIELLEICHT AUCH NOCH EIN PAAR MEHR
      DA UNSER ROBOTER FLIEGEN KANN ERLEDIGEN WIR ALLE AUFGABEN AUF ALLEN FELDERN DIE ES BEIM REGINALWETTBEWERB WIR BRINGEN NOCH EINEN WEITEREN TISCH F*R MEHR PUNKTE MIT
      WIR HATTEN UNS *BERLEGT ZU DEN ANDEREN REGIONALWETTBEWERBEN ZU FLIEGEN DOCH DAZU REICHEN DIE 2.5 MINUTEN GANZ KNAPP NICHT JEDOCH SIND WIR GERADE DABEI UNSREN ROBO SOWEIT ZU TUNEN BIS ER MACH 4 ERREICHEN KANN!!!!! VIEL SPA* BEIM VERLIEREN!!!


Discussion: aufgabenablauf By: magiccreators1120 10/13/2004 21:28:36 GMT
muss man die aufgaben in einer Reihenfolge l*sen?

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/13/2004 21:28:36 GMT
    nein, k*nnt ihr machen wie ihr lustig seid.
    ihr d*rft nur nich mehr von der treppe runter, wenn ihr einmal oben wart


Discussion: aufgabenablauf By: magiccreators1120 10/13/2004 21:31:10 GMT
wenn man eine aufgabe gel*st hat, wird die aufgabe dann abgebaut?

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/13/2004 21:31:10 GMT
    nein, das w*r ja zu sch*n. da k*nntet ihr ja erst alles machen was nah dran ist und dann ohne hindernisse nach hinten brettern.
    es bleibt alles da stehen, wo es gestanden hat, es sei denn ihr fahrt es um. und daf*r k*nnte es Abzug geben (strategische zerst*rung des spielfelds)


Discussion: aufgabenablauf By: magiccreators1120 10/22/2004 10:40:17 GMT
wenn man eine aufgabe gel*st hat, wird die aufgabe dann abgebaut?

  1. Message by: Healthy_Robots 10/22/2004 10:40:17 GMT
    N* eigentlich nicht


Discussion: Startposition By: WoinemRobonnics48 10/14/2004 20:00:52 GMT
Hallo, uns ist nicht klar, wie der Roboter zu Beginn stehen muss: Exakt mittig ausgerichtet, also direkt vor dem 3m Zeichen. Oder kann er krumm und schief positioniert werden, Hauptsache er steht innerhalb der Base??

Gruss und gutes Gelingen...

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/14/2004 20:00:52 GMT
    der darf nirgends *ber die baselinie rausschauen auch ned in 40 cm h*he


Discussion: BASE verlassen - welche Richtung?? By: EWG Rob1 11/05/2004 19:00:58 GMT
in welche richtung darf die base verlassen werden - nach RECHTS oder nur nach VORN??

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/17/2004 22:36:45 GMT
    is ganz egal


    1. Message by: Legoreds 11/05/2004 19:00:58 GMT
      Nein, man darf die Base nur nach oben verlassen. Also man darf nur aus der Base wenn der Roboter eine H*he von 30cm *ber der Platte hat.:) :) :)

      Quatsch nat*rlich ist es Egal!!


Discussion: aufgabenzeit By: magiccreators1120 10/18/2004 20:31:09 GMT
hat man f*r alle aufgaben zusammen nur 150s oder f*r eine?

  1. Message by: WoinemRobonnics48 10/18/2004 20:31:09 GMT
    ganz klar: f*r alle!!!


Discussion: Dritten Motor mit Aufbau wechseln By: Robokids 11/01/2004 20:12:51 GMT
Dass auf dem Bot nur drei Motoren verwendet werden d*rfen, ist mir klar. Darf ich aber am Tisch mit mehreren Motoren stehen. Ich meine damit: Ist es m*glich, dass man die Aufbauten inkl. Motor wechseln kann? Es w*ren dann ja nur 3 Motoren auf dem Bot.
Vielleicht ist diese Frage doof, aber wir nehmen heuer zum ersten Mal an der FLL teil.

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/22/2004 12:08:24 GMT
    Nachdem ich die Foren intensiv gelesen habe auch USA gehe ich davon aus dass du am Wettkampftisch nur 1 RCX und 3 Motoren haben darfst - Also kein Motorwechsel

    Bedenke dass ist meine pers*nliche Ansicht
    Wenn du sicher gehen willst frag bei Hands on nach


    1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/28/2004 20:25:55 GMT
      W*rd ich nich drauf ankommen lassen. Letztes Jahr hat ein Team verschiedene Roboter f*r die Aufgaben gebaut(also die Teilebegrenzung f*r jeden einzelnen Roboter eingehalten, insgesamt aber zu viele Elektronikteile verbaut). Die wurden disqualifiziert.

      Im prinzip d*rf Ihr immer nur soviele Elektronikteile mit in eine Runde nehmen wie die Vorgabe ist.

      Ob ihr zur n*chsten Runde einen anderen Aufbau aus der Trickkiste zaubert und daf*r den anderen aus der Runde davor mitsamt Motor weglasst, ist v*llig egal. So haltet Ihr euch ja wieder an das Teile-Limit.


    2. Message by: robofreaks1010 11/01/2004 20:12:51 GMT
      Wir machen jetzt zum zweiten Mal mit. Es ist eindeutig so, dass man insgesamt , wirklich insgesamt, f*r vollkommen alle Sachen, d.h. den Unterbau, der sich bewegt und s*mtliche Aufbauten, drei Motoren benutzen darf. Ihr m*sst eben probieren, Aufgaben ohne Motor zu l*sen oder mit einer Vorrichtung mehrere Aufgaben zu erf*llen. Aber eindeutig f*r wirklich alles nur drei Motoren. Sonst seid ihr drau*en.


Discussion: aufgabenzeit By: magiccreators1120 10/26/2004 15:56:32 GMT
l*uft die zeit, wenn man in der base ist, weiter?

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/26/2004 15:55:04 GMT
    JA


    1. Message by: magiccreators1120 10/26/2004 15:56:32 GMT
      danke


Discussion: zeit zwischen den matches By: magiccreators1120 10/28/2004 08:27:43 GMT
wie vi*l zeit hat man zwischen den matches?

  1. Message by: robofreaks1010 10/28/2004 08:27:43 GMT
    Das kommt auf die Runde an, in der man sich befindet, und wie viele Mannschaften vor Ort sind. Es gibt bei den Wettbewerben eine genaue Zeitvorgabe. Das kann also am Anfang, wenn alle Mannschaften 3 mal durchlaufen m*ssen, auch mal eine halbe Stunde sein ca., dann sp*ter, je weniger Mannschaften, desto weniger Zeit zwischendurch.


Discussion: Aufgaben & Punkte By: Robotron2.0_1029 11/02/2004 09:45:58 GMT
Wie viele Aufgaben l*st ihr?
Wieviele Punkte herreicht ihr?
Wieviel Zeit habt ihr noch wenn ihr alles erledigt habt was ihr wolltet?

  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 09:45:58 GMT
    wir l*sen alle aufgaben perfekt. *ggg*


Discussion: roboter By: magiccreators1120 11/05/2004 22:54:53 GMT
muss man der jury seinen roboter vorstellen?

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/05/2004 22:54:53 GMT
    ja. die gehen rum und schaun sich das ger*t an. und ihr m*sst dann halt erkl*ren, was ihr wie gel*st habt usw...


Discussion: matchende By: magiccreators1120 11/01/2004 12:59:35 GMT
wenn die matchzeit endet w*hrend man eine aufgabe l*st, wird die aufgabe dann zu ende gel*st werden

Discussion: matchende2 By: magiccreators1120 11/05/2004 22:57:34 GMT
muss man vor abllauf der zeit in die base zur*ck, damit die aufgaben gewertet werden

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/05/2004 22:57:34 GMT
    das steht in den regeln drin, dass man am ende auf der treppe stehen muss. wenn man einmal auf der treppe drauf ist, darf man da auch nich mehr runter.

    lest ihr die regeln eigentlich alle nich??


Discussion: matchende2 By: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 11:27:51 GMT
muss man vor abllauf der zeit in die base zur*ck, damit die aufgaben gewertet werden

Discussion: International Final? By: chaosdesigner1051 12/02/2004 15:27:21 GMT
Wie ist das eigentlich mit dem US-Open?
Findet das statt oder ist das eine Fehlinformation?


Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/23/2005 00:38:53 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers

Discussion: Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia auf Deutsch By: RobotRulers776 02/23/2005 00:38:53 GMT
Wer sind die Mannschaften, die zum Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia gehen? Wir sind die Lehren des Roboters L3 von neuem Westyork und m*chten wissen, wem geht. Geben Sie bitte Ihre Antwort im Staatheft unter Verschiedenem und dann unter festival des Heftes 1 Weltin Atlanta, Georgia bekannt. RobotercLehren Des Dankes L3


Folder: Werbekampagne 11/02/2004 09:48:33 GMT
Naturlich soll man dien Werbekampagne ausf*hren!!!

Discussion: Wie? By: Robotron2.0_1029 11/02/2004 09:48:33 GMT
Wie soll man die Werbekampagne ausf*hren?

  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 09:48:33 GMT
    garnich


Discussion: Forschungsauftrag By: Legoreds 11/10/2004 14:38:18 GMT


  1. Message by: 09/16/2004 19:17:53 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: 09/16/2004 19:22:24 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: Legoreds 09/16/2004 20:23:30 GMT
      Hi wie findet ihr den Forschungsauftrag?

      Jonas


    3. Message by: 09/16/2004 20:32:46 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: 09/16/2004 21:35:29 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: 09/21/2004 17:34:33 GMT
      Deleted


    6. Message by: 09/21/2004 17:47:19 GMT
      Deleted


    7. Message by: wisrds1084 09/22/2004 16:19:05 GMT
      Ach seid doch alle still !!!!!!!!!


    8. Message by: wisrds1084 09/22/2004 16:19:22 GMT
      Ach seid doch alle still


    9. Message by: Legoreds 09/22/2004 18:41:17 GMT
      warum?


    10. Message by: Legoreds 09/22/2004 19:54:54 GMT
      Nun zum Thema Forschungsauftrag. Was meint ihr?

      Jonas


    11. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/05/2004 18:04:22 GMT
      Wir haben 3 M*dchen, die alles f*r uns machen!


    12. Message by: Legoreds 11/05/2004 18:55:27 GMT
      Sklaventreiber!!!!!!!!!!!

      PS: Wir haben 6 haha!


    13. Message by: Healthy_Robots 11/06/2004 11:03:58 GMT
      Bei uns ist alles echte Mannesarbeit. Darum gewinnen wir auch:-)


    14. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/07/2004 19:40:11 GMT
      Haben wir ja gesehen. Gl*ckwunsch nochmal!
      Habts verdient. eure Prothese hat mich echt beeindruckt.

      Sehen uns in Tauberbischofsheim

      --->Robotron strikes back!

      Als denn

      Stefan, der Ober-Robotron


    15. Message by: Healthy_Robots 11/10/2004 14:38:18 GMT
      Danke bis am 27.11.04,fahrt wir jetzt eigentlich mit euch nach Tauberbischofsheim?Aber euer Roboter hat uns noch mehr beeindruckt.Sehen uns in Tauberbischofsheim .
      PS:Schonen Gru* von den Healthy_Robots


Discussion: Forschungsauftrag By: Legoreds 10/11/2004 06:56:11 GMT
Das Thema ist ziemlich undeutlich beschrieben

  1. Message by: Legoreds 09/16/2004 20:26:28 GMT
    Ja gut. Ich finde der Anfang ist gut. nur der Dritte Teil.
    "Teilt euer wissen anderen mir" was soll das den bedeuten?

    An Legoreds: Schreibt mal den namen darunter.

    Jonas


    1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/18/2004 17:46:21 GMT
      Tach zusammen!
      "Teilt euer wissen anderen mit" k*nnte was wie ne pr*sentation sein. Oder ne Werbekampagne. Man sollte aber den bogen nicht *berspannen.

      Der Ober-Robotron


    2. Message by: Legoreds 09/19/2004 20:42:42 GMT
      Werbekampagne! Soll man die nur vorstellen oder auch ausf*hren?


    3. Message by: wisrds1084 09/22/2004 16:15:36 GMT
      hallo


    4. Message by: wisrds1084 09/22/2004 16:19:39 GMT
      hallo??


    5. Message by: wisrds1084 09/22/2004 16:20:14 GMT
      ist jemand da?


    6. Message by: RoboCare1095 09/22/2004 16:25:21 GMT
      das ist kein chatraum!!!
      Das ist ein forum

      Also schreibt hier kein belangloses Zeug rein!


    7. Message by: wisrds1084 09/22/2004 16:27:06 GMT
      hat jemand fragen?


    8. Message by: Legoreds 09/22/2004 19:52:43 GMT
      Das ist nicht b*se gemeint aber ihr seit das zweite Team, dass es nicht verstanden hat. :))))

      L*scht bitte mal den Quatsch!

      Jonas


    9. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/22/2004 21:26:22 GMT
      Ich denk ja mal, dass vorstellen reichen sollte. alles andere kann ja keine Sau bezahlen ... M*sste ja nich mal was ausgearbeitetes sein eher was wie ein grober rahmen mit ma*nahmen.


    10. Message by: Legoreds 09/23/2004 13:00:56 GMT
      Ok hast Recht vielleicht kann man es ja auch so hinkriegen das es weniger kostet.

      Jonas


    11. Message by: 09/25/2004 11:02:09 GMT
      Deleted


    12. Message by: 09/25/2004 11:02:47 GMT
      Deleted


    13. Message by: Legoreds 09/27/2004 17:26:59 GMT
      Wie oft habt ihr schon Teilgenommen?

      Auch 3 mal!

      Sonst w*r ich noch nicht so laut.
      Die erfahrung z*hlt

      Jonas


    14. Message by: Legoreds 09/28/2004 13:58:51 GMT
      Sach ma Legomania!
      Denkt ihr jetzt ihr w*rt *berhaupt die macks?
      Kommt mir irgendwie so vor!


    15. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 09/29/2004 17:28:04 GMT
      Wie sollte man das "Ausf*hren" denn umsetzen?


    16. Message by: Legoreds 10/11/2004 06:56:11 GMT
      Villeicht hat eure Stadt nen offenen Kanal!!!

      Jonaszinn


Discussion: Das Challenge Set By: Legoreds 09/19/2005 16:43:11 GMT
Hi, habt ihr das Challenge Set schon bekommen?

Jonas

  1. Message by: RoboCare1095 09/18/2004 10:15:24 GMT
    Ist bei mit gestern Freitag 17.9. eingetroffen

    Ueber die Portokosten von 35* (Schweiz) bin ich jedoch gar nicht begeistert. Auf den FLL Seiten steht 12* !


    1. Message by: Legoreds 09/19/2004 20:38:11 GMT
      35 Euro!!!!!!!!! Die letzten Jahre waren es in Deutschland 7 Euro. Da sind 35 Euro in die Schweiz aber sehr viel.
      Bei uns ist es immer noch nicht da. Ich hoffe es kommt morgen (Montag). Die letzten beiden Jahre bekamen wir es wegen Problemen immer 1 1/2 wochen sp*ter.

      Jonas

      P.S: 35 Euro und dann noch 150 (75) Euro anmeldegeb*r! Oh Man


    2. Message by: John Smith 09/21/2004 19:31:12 GMT
      Hallo,

      bei uns ist das Challenge Set noch nicht angekommen. So langsam mache ich mir auch Sorgen, ob es denn noch vor den Herbstferien in Berlin (ab 1.10.) eintrifft.

      Gerade als Neuling, das unser Team ist, ist es ein wenig r*tselhaft, was wohl alles auf dieser Tischauflage zu sehen ist. Gibt es darauf Orientierungspunkte oder Linien, denen der Roboter folgen kann? Hat jemand die Auflage als PDF oder in anderer Form?

      Viele Gr**e
      Manuel (Coach nn1124)


    3. Message by: wisrds1084 09/22/2004 16:30:13 GMT
      Be us sit ads Challenger Set schon angekommen and wir alle sind erfreut ueber das.Auch ueber all Teile zum bauen.


    4. Message by: Legoreds 09/22/2004 19:49:59 GMT
      Falls es noch nicht angekommen ist schreibt mal an die Juliane Riedel, das haben wir gemacht und dabei ist herausgekommen, dass es an die falsche Adresse geschickt wurde. :((

      1. Jahr 2 Wochen versp*tung!! :)))
      2. Jahr falsche Adresse 1 1/2 Wochen versp*tung. :((
      Diese Jahr auch an die falsche Adresse :(

      Was f*r ein Mist!!

      Jonas


    5. Message by: John Smith 09/24/2004 14:50:39 GMT
      Mittlerweile habe ich bei LPE angerufen und erfahren, dass das Set noch nicht verschickt wurde, da das Erfinder-Set, welches ich zus*tzlich bestellt hatte, derzeit nicht lieferbar ist und man daher noch warten wollte, bis eine Komplettlieferung m*glich wird.

      Naja, jetzt m*sste eigentlich heute oder morgen die Teillieferung des Challenge Sets ankommen...

      Viele Gr**e
      Manuel (Coach nn1124)


    6. Message by: Legoreds 09/24/2004 20:38:25 GMT
      hallo!
      Wir haben das challenge set heute (18.47 uhr) bekommen
      ganz sch*n viel zum aufbauen!
      Mehr als letztes und vorletztes jahr!

      Legoreds Bauer und Programmierer
      Jonas und NiKo


    7. Message by: LegoFredos1070 09/25/2004 14:16:07 GMT
      Kann man einen Dritten Motor ben*tzen
      und wo bekomme ich so etwas


      1. Message by: Trittau Team 1094 09/29/2004 11:54:46 GMT
        Du musst ihn dier bestellen
        www.lego.de


    8. Message by: robofreaks1010 09/25/2004 15:37:25 GMT
      Hallo Legofredos,
      wir d*rfen drei Motoren ben*tzen. Man bekommt sie z.B. bei LPE, da kann man alle Teile einzeln bestellen. Oder bei ebay, da gibt es im Moment auch fast alles von Mindstorms. Allerdings darf man nur drei Motoren insgesamt benutzen, also wenn man zwei f*r die Fortbewegung nutzen w*rde, dann w*rde man noch einen einzigen f*r alle anderen Aufgaben *brig haben.
      Die Robofreaks aus Herten


    9. Message by: block1058 09/28/2004 20:51:41 GMT
      Hi, von meiner Schule kommen zwei Teams. Bei einem ist das Set eingetroffen, beim anderen fehlt es noch. Zum Gl*ck haben wir nicht zwei Matten bekommen, sondern eine Matte und einen Bausatz. Dirk


    10. Message by: Legoreds 09/29/2004 06:37:52 GMT
      Schreibt mal an Juliane!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Jonas


    11. Message by: 09/29/2004 15:44:11 GMT
      Deleted


    12. Message by: SAPocean 09/19/2005 09:14:11 GMT
      Ist es ratsam, das Spielfeld auf unserem Tisch aufzukleben (z.B. mit Teppichklebeband)? Oder brauchen wir unser eigenes Spielfeld beim Wettbewerb?


    13. Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/19/2005 16:43:11 GMT
      Hi,

      Don't glue the mat down, use the carpet tape or let the mat flatten out by itself. You can put it in the sun and it will help.

      Have Fun
      -Laura


Discussion: WeLcHeR rEgIoNaLwEtTbEwErB??? By: Legoreds 11/07/2004 20:08:55 GMT
Hi Leute hab mal ein paar frage an euch!!!!!!!!
1.An welchem Regionalwettbewerb nehmt ihr teil?
Wir in Frankfurt/Main ( Wenn bis dahin das challenge set ankommt :) )
2.Das wievielte mal nehmt ihr dieses Jahr teil?
Wir schon das dritte mal!
3.Seid ihr schon einmal in das Bundesfinale gekommen?
Wir schon! 2 mal!

NiKo

  1. Message by: 09/22/2004 19:43:46 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/07/2004 20:08:55 GMT
      Wir waren in Bocholt... ...in Tauberbischotsheim gehts weiter!!!


Discussion: Wie weit seit ihr? By: Healthy_Robots 10/07/2004 21:11:17 GMT
Wie habt ihr Sponsoren bekommen?

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/06/2004 23:47:47 GMT
    Wir haben uns da gar nicht drum bem*ht. Wir haben alle einen gleichen Anteil eingezahlt und so alles aus eigener Tasche bezahlt.
    Ich w*rde einfach mal verschiedene Firmen fragen, ob die nicht interesse h*tten, euch zu sponsorn. Wenn die h*ren, dass Ihr von einer Schule kommt, sind die euch wahrscheinlich wohlgesonnen. Am besten kann man Firmen nehmen, die sich Ausbildung gro* auf die Fahnen schreiben.
    Im weiteren Sinne z*hlt die FLL ja auch zur (aus)bildung ...


    1. Message by: RoboCare1095 10/07/2004 21:11:17 GMT
      Nun ich denke wenn man Leute aus Firmen fragt die einem nahe stehen kann man den einen oder andern Franken (Euro) bekommen .


Discussion: Maximale Punktzahl? By: Legoreds 11/17/2004 17:13:00 GMT
Hi wie viele Punkte k*nnt ihr maximal holen?
Seid ihr schon fertig mit programmieren?

Jonas

  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 10/27/2004 18:38:06 GMT
    Nat*rlich sind wir noch NICHT fertig! Doch ich glaube, dass wir etwa 150 Punkte oder mehr schaffen. Und Ihr?

    Benny


    1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/28/2004 12:56:08 GMT
      Programmierarbeit wurde so eben beendet!
      77% der durchschnittlichen maximal zu erreichenden Punktzahl erreicht.
      Jetzt kommt feintuning.


      1. Message by: EWG Rob1 11/03/2004 13:25:32 GMT
        Was versteht ihr unter der "durchschnittlichen maximal zu erreichenden Punktzahl"? Und wie berechnet ihr sie?


        1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/05/2004 22:49:02 GMT
          ganz einfach: z*hl alles zusammen, was aufm punktezettel steht und geh dabei jeweils von einer komplett gel*sten aufgabe (z.B Tor rastet ein) aus.
          und dann kuckt mal wieviel prozent ihr davon mit euren erreichten punken bekommt. maximale punktzahl sind (glaub ich) 365 Punkte.


          1. Message by: PGH-Fire-Bots 11/17/2004 17:13:00 GMT
            seit ihr sicher das es genau 365 punkte gibt. wir schaffen immer alle aufgaben in der vorgegebenen zeit haben aber noch nie so viele punkte erreicht. habt ihr eine ideee was wir noch machen k*nnen uns ist schon sau langweilig!!!G*hn!!!!!!!!


    2. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 09:46:49 GMT
      wir schaffen doch mehr


    3. Message by: Legoreds 11/05/2004 18:49:44 GMT
      Hi wir schafen im durchschnitt 99 Punkte und wenn wir Gl*ck haben 111.

      magiccreators,
      wieviele Punkte schafft ihr jetzt?

      Robotron wieviele Punkte sind das?


    4. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/07/2004 20:51:18 GMT
      Wir haben beim Wettbewerb 30 Punkte bekommen!


    5. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/09/2004 23:33:44 GMT
      Die 77% m*ssten ca. 280 Punkten entsprechen.


Discussion: Wieviele punkte? By: Legoreds 12/02/2004 15:22:54 GMT
Wieviele punkte holt ihr sicher?

Werbung: bushidos neues album electro ghetto ab 25.10.04 im handel
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!KAUFEN!!!!!!!!!!!

  1. Message by: chaosdesigner1051 12/02/2004 15:22:54 GMT
    357


Discussion: aufgaben By: magiccreators1120 10/22/2004 14:13:14 GMT
darf man 2 aufgaben in einem lauf kombinieren und sie zusammen l*sen

  1. Message by: WoinemRobonnics48 10/19/2004 21:07:49 GMT
    Aber ja doch!


    1. Message by: Legoreds 10/21/2004 11:08:31 GMT
      nein das ist vollkommen verboten
      quatsch
      nat*rlich d*rft ihr das
      warum auch nicht


    2. Message by: magiccreators1120 10/22/2004 14:13:14 GMT
      Was ist ein Match?


Discussion: Was ist ein Match? By: magiccreators1120 11/11/2004 16:43:49 GMT
Was ist ein Match?Hatjedes Team nur ein Match?

  1. Message by: wisrds1084 10/23/2004 00:22:47 GMT
    Auf einigen Seiten gibt es einen Ablaufplan f*r den Wettkampf:

    Zuerst eine "Vorrunde": Jedes Team spielt 3 Mal

    Dann die 2 Halbfinals: Die besten 4 aus der Vorrunde spielen je eine Runde.

    Dann der Final der beiden Halbfinal-Sieger: 1 Runde

    Zwischen Vorrunde und Halbfinals finden die Forsuchungs-Pr*sentationen statt.


    1. Message by: EWG Rob1 11/04/2004 12:15:02 GMT
      Also darf jedes Team mindestens 3x spielen


    2. Message by: annarobo1092 11/11/2004 16:43:49 GMT
      Jede hat drei Versuche und der Beste wird Gewertet



Folder: - FRANCE - [for French members] 04/03/2005 14:32:26 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns France in this folder.


Folder: bus 09/24/2004 09:30:58 GMT
urgence:quel est la auteur du drapeau (pour bus)
est ce que le drapeau blanc est au milieu



Folder: chaise 09/17/2004 11:46:15 GMT
es que on peut metre les chaise sou la table svp


Folder: chaises 09/17/2004 11:09:52 GMT
comment il faut faire pour d*placer les chaises


Folder: chaises 09/17/2004 11:09:52 GMT
comment il faut faire pour deplacer les chaises


Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/23/2005 00:41:43 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers

Discussion: internationals * Atlanta, la G*orgie en fran*ais By: RobotRulers776 02/23/2005 00:41:43 GMT
Qui sont les *quipes allant * l'Internationals * Atlanta, la G*orgie? Nous sommes les gouverneurs du robot L3 de New York occidental et voudrions savoir qui va. Veuillez signaler votre r*ponse dans la chemise des Etats-Unis sous divers et puis sous le festival du monde de la chemise 1 * Atlanta, la G*orgie. R*gles De Robot Merci L3


Folder: Lunettes 09/17/2004 11:18:45 GMT


Discussion: slt By: tezenas 11/16/2004 05:48:31 GMT


  1. Message by: tezenas 09/17/2004 11:25:41 GMT
    comen on fai pour doner la nouritur pour l* animaux


    1. Message by: tezenas 09/17/2004 11:26:42 GMT
      pourkoi vs r*pond pa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    2. Message by: computer nerds 11/16/2004 05:48:31 GMT
      Premier chose, tu dois travailler sur ton francais! Ok, pour ton question, tu dois juste mettre sur le carr* rouge.


Discussion: les animaux By: tezenas 01/07/2005 20:12:54 GMT
tu te debrouile

  1. Message by: tezenas 09/24/2004 09:44:13 GMT
    avons nous le droit de toucher les animaux???


    1. Message by: tezenas 09/24/2004 09:45:18 GMT
      VAS Y....REPOND


    2. Message by: tezenas 09/24/2004 09:46:35 GMT
      OU DOIT ON PRENDRE LA NOURRITURE


    3. Message by: tezenas 09/24/2004 09:47:24 GMT
      que don ton a mange o animo


    4. Message by: tezenas 09/24/2004 10:39:31 GMT
      sur quel ligne les chaise doit etre pousser urgent


    5. Message by: tezenas 09/24/2004 10:40:27 GMT
      est ce quil faut avoir tout le robot sur la derniere marche


    6. Message by: magiccreators1120 10/05/2004 16:18:49 GMT
      franzosen sind dumm


    7. Message by: Country Breakfast 10/15/2004 17:22:43 GMT
      I wish I could understand french.....


    8. Message by: computer nerds 11/15/2004 03:29:40 GMT
      Oui tu peut toucher les animaux mais si tu les pousse a l'exterieur du carreau rouge, tu ne recoit pas de points. Aussi tout to robot dois etre sur la derniere marche. Je ne suis pas sur avec la chaise mais je pense que ca dois toucher la table avec les deux pas d'avent.


    9. Message by: LAPTEP1 01/07/2005 20:12:54 GMT
      Les chaises doivent *tre * l'int*rieur du trac* ovale (le tapis !?) * la fin de la rencontre.


Discussion: ecaliers By: tezenas 10/05/2004 20:42:02 GMT


  1. Message by: tezenas 09/24/2004 10:40:29 GMT
    le robot doit obligatoirement touch*s la barrieres du fond
    *


    1. Message by: MemorialMustangs908 09/27/2004 21:04:14 GMT
      CAN YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH? DO YOU EAT SNAILS? NON? OUI.


      1. Message by: SMART 1 09/28/2004 16:52:26 GMT
        It might be worth noting that many potential judges may be on these forums. Not sure if they'll think rude forum messages are an example of gracious professionalism.


    2. Message by: MemorialMustangs908 09/29/2004 21:41:26 GMT
      Bonjour,I'm sorry about what our team member said, please accept this apology. Au revoir



      Sincerely,
      Jason



    3. Message by: tezenas 10/01/2004 20:20:58 GMT
      ezbrdghrdgdgrdhfdfrhvchfdhfdhfdrdhhththftdu,hj-hntduy


    4. Message by: MemorialMustangs908 10/05/2004 20:42:02 GMT
      smart2555,
      do you forgive her


Discussion: Pouvez vous prendre le hoop * la base et load les boules manuellement? By: TechSavvy926 11/15/2004 03:33:03 GMT
Pouvez vous prendre le hoop * la base et load les boules manuellement?

  1. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 15:26:59 GMT
    Do you speak German?


    1. Message by: computer nerds 11/15/2004 03:33:03 GMT
      NON! Tu ne peut pas prendre le hoop parce que l'autre equipe dois essayer de mettre les balles dedans allors si tu fais ca, ca vas etre injuste.


Discussion: Le panier By: Cyberfrog1 01/07/2005 20:08:45 GMT
Peut-on mettre une balle au centre du panier, l'enlever, puis en remettre une pour avoir le double de points

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/04/2004 17:47:36 GMT
    Non, Ce nais pas possible. Regarde:

    i D*TERMINATION POINTS : Pour r*duire au minimum les contestations, LES POINTS SONT D*TERMIN*S * LA FIN DE LA RENCONTRE, SUIVANT L'*TAT DE LA PISTE * CE MOMENT-L*. Ceci signifie que des points ne sont pas attribu*s pour des actions que le robot peut accidentellement annuler avant la fin de la rencontre.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: LAPTEP1 01/07/2005 20:08:45 GMT
      Et puis l'*quipe adverse qui passe en m*me temps sur la table peut en profiter pour d*poser la sienne...
      Il n'y a qu'un panier central pour les 2 *quipes, c'est le premier qui a les 50 pts !


Discussion: comp*tition By: Cyberfrog1 01/16/2005 10:10:26 GMT
Je ne comprends pas comment on peut r*aliser un quart et une demi finale avant que toutes les *quipes aient concourues ? N'y a-t-il pas eu confusion entre poule et comp*tition r*elle ? Pourquoi ce changement par rapport aux autres ann*es ?

  1. Message by: LAPTEP1 01/07/2005 20:06:43 GMT
    Il y aura une finale de la poule du matin et une finale de la poule de l'apr*s midi... et donc une super finale en fin d'apr*s midi entre le gagnant du matin et celui del'apr*s-midi.
    La raison de ce choix est li* aux contraintes de la salle de la comp*tition robot. pas plus de 100 personnes en m*me temps aussi pour limiter les d*placements des *l*ves = 2 poules !
    Attention cette ann*e c'est le meileur score des 3 passages en poule qui donne les points pour le classement g*n*ral. (pour le grand prix)
    Par contre le gagnant du troph*e robotique sera le vainqueur de la finale.


    1. Message by: coralie 01/16/2005 10:10:26 GMT
      bonjour, c'est l'*quipe coralie et nous voulons vous dire que l'on a tous *t* content de concourir contre vous et que ce concours est une merveille pour l'animation que *a apporte et pour la r*flexion qu'il faut avoir.


Discussion: bravo By: Dax 04/03/2005 14:32:26 GMT
bravo * l'*quipe de marmande. bonne chance pour Atlanta


Folder: - HOLLAND - [for Dutch members] 02/15/2005 00:54:20 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Holland in this folder.


Folder: Bedankt 11/21/2004 14:31:12 GMT
Hallo alle vrijwilligers van de regiofinale in Eindhoven.
Wij willen jullie hartelijk bedanken voor jullie geweldige inzet om er zo'n perfecte dag van te maken.
Tot 22 januari
Risbotics


Folder: eten en dienblad !!!! 10/11/2004 15:49:28 GMT

Heyyy,
Even een vraag vanuit Delft.
Het eten op het dienblad moet dit NAAST de tafel of OP de tafel komen te staan???
Racties zijn welkom.

Gr het Stanislasteam.


Folder: Finale 11/24/2004 16:38:09 GMT


Discussion: Tijden en plaats By: De Handy's 11/24/2004 16:38:09 GMT
Weet iemand of de tijden en locatie al bekent zijn van de regionale finales.

Met de lokatie bedoelen we gebouw etc.

Groeten

De Handy's

  1. Message by: RoBoBende 10/15/2004 14:43:00 GMT
    als jullie in suidholland mee doen dan moet je naar het atrium van de haagse hoge school


    1. Message by: De Handy's 10/18/2004 10:43:10 GMT
      We doen in regio eindhoven mee. Maar toch bedankt RoBoBende.

      Weet iemand waar we de lokatie kan vinden?

      Groeten,

      De Handy's


    2. Message by: Risbotics12 10/18/2004 22:00:18 GMT
      Ik heb begrepen dat dat op het ROC is, maar neem aan dat we daar nog wel wat over horen,
      Risbotics Eindhoven


    3. Message by: Cyborgs 10/19/2004 11:06:37 GMT
      bedankt en succes


    4. Message by: aloysius college 11/24/2004 16:38:09 GMT
      Weet iemand soms al wat meer over de landelijke finale? (plaats, tijden etc.)
      groetjes van absolutely complete



Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/15/2005 00:54:20 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers


Folder: Let op!!! 11/03/2004 11:21:50 GMT
Er zijn een aantal onduidelijkheden over wat er wel en niet mag aan de wedstrijdtafel. Hier willen we het een en ander nog eens duidelijk maken.
Procedure voor de finale in regio west (op de haagse hoge school).

Elk team komt 3x aan de wedstrijdtafel en heeft in elke ronde 2,5 minuut om zoveel mogelijk punten te halen. Het hoogste aantal punten in 1 ronde telt. De 3 rondes worden dus niet bij elkaar opgeteld.

Aan de tafel mag niet meer geprogrammeerd worden. Dit moet dus vooraf gedaan worden.

Een team komt aan tafel met 1 robot. Zie de regels op deze site voor welke materialen je mag gebruiken aan tafel. Meerdere stenen mee nemen naar de tafel mag dus niet.


Discussion: Aantal personen aan de tafel By: HCO 11/03/2004 11:21:50 GMT
In Zuid Holland mogen er per team 2 teamleden aan een tafel staan. De rest van het team mag wil in de ring staan maar tegen het hek aan de zijkant. Alleen als er technische problemen zijn mogen er 2 teamleden komen assisteren. Als alles verholpen is gaan ze weer terug.


Folder: Plek van dieren eten in base? 10/23/2004 23:18:14 GMT
Wij zuiden graag willen weten waar de zwarten blokjes van de dieren inde base moeten liggen?
(of maakt het niet uit)
Groetjes het stanislas team.

Discussion: eten dieren By: HCO 10/23/2004 23:18:14 GMT
Gewoon ergens in de basis


Folder: succes!! 10/11/2004 15:38:49 GMT
Wij van het stanislas team wensen jullie allemaal heel veel succes!!!

groetjes het stanislas team!!


Folder: Technische vragen en opmerkingen 01/13/2005 13:21:36 GMT


Discussion: missies By: Cyborgs 11/01/2004 15:29:28 GMT


  1. Message by: Cyborgs 09/22/2004 09:02:58 GMT
    heb je een vraag over de missies ga het dan meteen vragen. elke dag is er wel iemand die op het forum kijkt en dan krijg je meschien een antwoord. suc6 allemaal
    cyborgs


    1. Message by: cosmos2 09/22/2004 15:46:14 GMT
      Waarom kan ik niet in labview opslaan, en waarom krijg
      ik geen nieuwe items op het functie palet?


    2. Message by: de duplo's 09/22/2004 15:58:50 GMT
      als ik met robolab iets download dan slaat ie over en dan moet et overnieuw weet iemand de reden hier van :?


    3. Message by: wisrds1084 09/22/2004 16:28:47 GMT
      Als je de bal in het net aan van de tegenspelers krijgt, telt ie dan nog???


      1. Message by: de duplo's 09/22/2004 19:16:45 GMT
        volgens mij niet dan was et dach ik een punt voor de tegenstanders weet dat niet zkr


      2. Message by: HCO 09/23/2004 15:20:38 GMT
        Ja, volgens mij wel maar voor hen ! en niet jezelf!


      3. Message by: Cyborgs 09/24/2004 15:29:28 GMT
        Als je de regels goed doorneemt staat daar het antwoord:De bal in het gedeelte van het andere team geeft voor je eigen team geen punten! De punten gaan naar het andere team!!


      4. Message by: de duplo's 09/28/2004 12:32:10 GMT
        dan telt ie voor de tegenstander


    4. Message by: de duplo's 09/27/2004 17:09:22 GMT
      zei et toch :P


    5. Message by: de duplo's 09/28/2004 12:34:46 GMT
      aan welke kant moet het slot van de poort


    6. Message by: 09/28/2004 14:24:22 GMT
      Deleted


    7. Message by: de duplo's 10/04/2004 16:26:12 GMT
      maggie de poort ook van de achterkant openen en mag dan dat hekkie weg, en of het dienblad bij het etenbrengen ook op de tafel mag?


    8. Message by: Rikkert 10/06/2004 13:42:05 GMT
      alleen ballen aan jouw kant van het mandje tellen (en als je er 1 in het midden krijgt natuurlijk). Als je een bal aan de kant van de tegenstander erin gooit, telt ie voor de tegenstander. Als de tegenstander een bal aan jouw kant gooit, telt ie voor jou

      de poort mag van alle kanten geopend worden. Het hekje verwijderen mag niet, dit wordt gezien als schade aanbrengen aan de tafel

      de poort moet met de scharnieren (en het slot) aan de kant van de rand van de tafel staan. Het opent dus van de hond en de kat af (naar de robot toe als je er direct heen zou rijden)

      je krijgt voor het serveren van eten alleen alle punten als het dienblad er onder zit


    9. Message by: RoBoBende 10/07/2004 13:42:14 GMT
      Op tijd bij de basket zijn?

      Als je de 50 punten wilt halen voor het scoren van jouw kleur bal in het middelste (witte) mandje, begrijp ik dan goed dat dit een afweging tussen preciesie (raak schieten) en tijd is (er als eerste zijn).
      Want er past natuurlijk maar **n bal in!
      Mag je nadat je robot is teruggekeerd naar de basis een ander programma activeren dat in de grote mand scoort?

      Robobende!


    10. Message by: Rikkert 10/07/2004 19:40:39 GMT
      Je mag zo vaak van programma wisselen als je wilt, als de robot maar helemaal in de basis is.

      Je moet inderdaad zorgen dat je snel je bal in het witte mandje hebt, voordat de tegenstander dit doet, anders kan je dus die punten niet meer halen.


    11. Message by: VanKinderenMuseum 10/14/2004 18:36:39 GMT
      Hallo,
      Ik heb ff 3 vragen.
      1) Wie beslist in welke volgorde de missies gedaan worden? wij zelf? Ik vraag me namenlijk af of je bij de trap-missie helemaal om de tafel heen moet of dat je ertussendoor kan. Als je eerst de stoel-missie doet staan de stoelen op het kleedje en kan dat, maar als de stoelen worden teruggezet of de trap-missie eerst moet kan dit niet. En zet de scheidsrechter na elke missie de stoelen / ballen / enz. weer terug.

      2) Bij de baseball-missie, wordt dan na elke volle punt de bal weer weg gehaald, zodat je kan proberen alleen maar volpunters te halen, of blijft hij liggen zodat je maar **n volpunter kan halen en de rest halfpunters moet maken.

      en dan 3) Wij hebben 5 verschillende robots gebouwt voor verschillende missies. Mogen wij ze om de beurt gebruiken, of mogen we maar**n robot steeds ombouwen (ik begrijp dat er steeds maar **n op het veld mag zijn). En mogen we dan ook onze 5 stenen meenemen en die om de beurt gebruiken? En tot slot: mogen wij dan ook al onze programma's op c.d. zetten zodat wij ze niet tijdens de match hoeven te maken?

      Groet,
      Het Van Kinderen Museum


    12. Message by: VanKinderenMuseum 10/20/2004 20:31:11 GMT
      wordt hier nog antwoord op gegeven???


      1. Message by: De Handy's 10/21/2004 08:31:56 GMT
        1) Wie beslist in welke volgorde de missies gedaan worden? wij zelf?

        Jullie beslissen in welke volgorde de missies worden gedaan.

        Ik vraag me namenlijk af of je bij de trap-missie helemaal om de tafel heen moet of dat je ertussendoor kan. Als je eerst de stoel-missie doet staan de stoelen op het kleedje en kan dat, maar als de stoelen worden teruggezet of de trap-missie eerst moet kan dit niet. En zet de scheidsrechter na elke missie de stoelen / ballen / enz. weer terug.

        Volgens mij kan je vragen om de stoelen en de tafel te laten verwijderen door de scheids (maar weten we niet zeker)

        2) Bij de baseball-missie, wordt dan na elke volle punt de bal weer weg gehaald, zodat je kan proberen alleen maar volpunters te halen, of blijft hij liggen zodat je maar **n volpunter kan halen en de rest halfpunters moet maken.

        We hebben ook geen flauw idee, maar we denken dat je maar 1 volledig punt kan halen.

        en dan 3) Wij hebben 5 verschillende robots gebouwt voor verschillende missies. Mogen wij ze om de beurt gebruiken, of mogen we maar**n robot steeds ombouwen (ik begrijp dat er steeds maar **n op het veld mag zijn). En mogen we dan ook onze 5 stenen meenemen en die om de beurt gebruiken? En tot slot: mogen wij dan ook al onze programma's op c.d. zetten zodat wij ze niet tijdens de match hoeven te maken?

        Zover wij weten mag je voor elke ronde een andere robot gebruiken, maar tijdens de ronde mag je niet van robot wisselen maar wel dingen aan verbouwen als je in de basis staat.

        Als je alles echt zeker wil weten moeten jullie gewoon even contact op nemen met de FLL.

        Groeten,

        De Handy's


    13. Message by: RoBoBende 10/23/2004 15:59:41 GMT
      Bril ophalen?

      Op de valreep nog een vraagje (just to make sure!)
      Mag je robot bij het ophalen van de bril "over het bureau" heen rijden, of moet hij er als het ware "voor" blijven staan (in dat geval heb je best een lange arm nodig).
      Hetzelfde geldt eigenlijk voor het neerleggen van de CD (mag je over de lijnen van het buro heen?)

      Groetjes
      De RoBoBende


    14. Message by: HCO 10/23/2004 23:13:06 GMT
      Hoi,

      Je mag best over het bureau rijden hoor. Het gaat om de uiteindelijke toestand van de tafel, na 2,5 minuten wordt de score opgemaakt.
      Pa op met lange armen omdat de hele robot (inclusief armen ed) binnen de basis moet passen (dus niet mag uitsteken)!


    15. Message by: Cyborgs 11/01/2004 15:28:16 GMT
      mag je een stoel weghalen bij de missie bushalte?


    16. Message by: Cyborgs 11/01/2004 15:29:28 GMT
      mag je verchillende stoelen laten weghalen


    17. Message by: GMT


Discussion: Robolab/labview By: cosmos2 01/13/2005 13:21:36 GMT
problemen m.b.t. Labview,inventor-niveau's

  1. Message by: cosmos2 09/24/2004 10:48:16 GMT
    We kunnen enkel inventor-niveau 1 gebruiken, en we kunnen hierin tevens ook niet opslaan


    1. Message by: De Handy's 09/24/2004 12:56:55 GMT
      Jullie hebben het over de software als dat zo is probeer opnieuw te installeren

      Veel suc6

      De Handy's


    2. Message by: 09/28/2004 14:22:30 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: calvijn 01/13/2005 13:21:36 GMT
      onze rcx negeert de order rotatie herstellen weet iemand iets?


Discussion: We missen onderdelen By: De Handy's 10/07/2004 12:55:52 GMT
We zijn de missie bouwwerken aan het maken en missen na 3 bouwerken al 8 onderdelen. Wie heeft dit probleem ook en waar kan ik snel een "nabestelling" doen?

  1. Message by: de duplo's 09/27/2004 16:24:13 GMT
    bij Heutink, denke we


    1. Message by: Rikkert 10/06/2004 13:39:19 GMT
      Wij hebben verschillende dozen met missiemodellen gebouwd en nergens misten wij onderdelen. Kijk nog eens goed na of je in al je modellen de juiste onderdelen hebt gebruikt.


    2. Message by: De Handy's 10/07/2004 12:55:52 GMT
      We hebben onderhand al een nieuwe doos gehad. De doos was niet compleet. Zo nu kunnen we wel weer verder

      Maar bedankt iedereen.

      De Handy's


Discussion: Etensbak en ballen tillen By: Gemini College 10/21/2004 08:33:59 GMT
Klein, misschien vreemd vraagje, bij het onderdeel "Opstelling veld onderdelen" wordt er bij het onderdeel dierenvoor (Pet Food) en bij het onderdeel schaal met eten en dienblad (Bowl of Food) wordt er gesproken van een hand waarmee dit op de robot wordt geladen. Hiermee wordt toch de hand van de robot bedoeld, of toch de hand van de mens?
Eigenlijk hoort dit bij vragen, maar ik weet niet hoe dat moet, sorry!

  1. Message by: RoBoBende 10/15/2004 14:52:11 GMT
    met eigen hand binnen de basis denk ik weet niet seker
    nout


    1. Message by: Cyborgs 10/15/2004 14:53:38 GMT
      Hiermee woord de hand van de mens bedoeld.
      Dus niet de robot.


    2. Message by: De Handy's 10/21/2004 08:33:59 GMT
      Wat de Cyborgs zeggen,

      je mag binnen de basis alles veranderen met de hand (menselijke hand) dus je mag gewoon het voer om de robot leggen met je eigen handen.

      Groeten,

      De Handy's


Discussion: Bril By: RoBoBende 10/08/2004 15:38:32 GMT
Moet je um schuive of tille die bril
alfast bedankt arman van de robobende

Discussion: Motoren By: VanKinderenMuseum 12/03/2004 20:51:46 GMT
Hallo,

Wij hebben een GROOT probleem: AL onze motoren draien op een andere snelheid. Dat betekend dat we niet **n robot rechtdoor kunnen laten rijden. Nou vroegen we ons af of anderen dat ook hebben. En vooral: HOE KUNNEN WE DIT OPLOSSEN?!?

Alvast bedankt,
Havkum

Discussion: Adapter By: Hofstad 01/12/2005 11:43:03 GMT
Hoe sluit je een adapter aan op de RCX? Als ik een 9 volt gelijkstroom adapter aansluit op de RCX gebeurt er niks. Moet er nog iets worden ingesteld?

Discussion: Heel veel succes! By: HCO 11/06/2004 21:53:19 GMT
De regio-organisatie West wenst alle deelnemende teams heel veel succes bij de voorbereidingen!

  1. Message by: de duplo's 09/22/2004 16:00:01 GMT
    dank je


    1. Message by: de duplo's 09/22/2004 16:00:06 GMT
      eeej ik wenz jullie allemaal lots of luck


    2. Message by: de duplo's 09/22/2004 16:00:55 GMT
      doei, en veel succes


    3. Message by: Cyborgs 09/24/2004 15:37:08 GMT
      bedankt


    4. Message by: de duplo's 09/24/2004 22:13:47 GMT
      graag gdaan ma wareb jullie winnaar vorig jaar of zo omdat jullie die foto met zoon beker hadde ????


    5. Message by: De_Vijver 09/30/2004 00:26:24 GMT
      Natuurlijk wensen bij van Daltonschool De Vijver ook iedereen veel succes en vooral plezier.
      Tot 6 november!


    6. Message by: CoolLimitVanishers149 10/29/2004 10:41:03 GMT
      Ook van ons veel succes, dan zien we elkaar bij de finale (hopen we...)


    7. Message by: cosmos2 11/06/2004 21:53:19 GMT
      ThnXz jullie ook suc6 gewenst door ons..:) en moge de beste winnen..

      RoCkDuDe van team staat hier boven..:)


Discussion: Mooi voor elkaar! By: HCO 10/06/2004 14:04:27 GMT
Hi team Stanislas, dat hebben jullie mooi voor elkaar zeg! Meteen al met een foto op de site. Ik hoop dat de komende weken net zo voorspoedig gaan. Succes.
HCO

  1. Message by: de duplo's 09/23/2004 09:02:10 GMT
    dit keer gaat et ons luken oor


    1. Message by: Rikkert 10/06/2004 14:04:27 GMT
      Hallo allemaal, ik ben van de website en dus zorg ik ook voor de foto van het team van de week.

      Als jullie zelf ook team van de week willen worden, stuur dan snel een mailtje naar ons (fll@techniekpromotie.nl)


Discussion: Goede start gewenst door de CYBORGS !!! By: Cyborgs 11/06/2004 21:52:01 GMT
'b ' Het Team van Waalsdorp, "de CYBORGS", wenst alle deelnemers van FLL2004 heel veel succes !!!!!
Wie weet gaan wij 6 november wederom met zo'n beker naar huis !!!!
Teamleden, laat je horen in dit Forum !!!!
(Mark)

  1. Message by: Cyborgs 09/21/2004 15:55:28 GMT
    Hierbij een foto van de prijzen van Waalsdorp: FLL2003


    1. Message by: de duplo's 09/22/2004 16:54:33 GMT
      waar slaat dat op we hoeve nie een prijs te zien van vorig jaar of zo :P


      1. Message by: Cyborgs 10/15/2004 14:57:17 GMT
        Dit slaat nergens op dus hou je mond maar Ruben '_'


    2. Message by: 09/23/2004 15:40:39 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: de duplo's 09/23/2004 17:57:31 GMT
      hou op ruben :P srry oor maar dis maf ruben !!!! twee keer dezelfde team die een andere mening laat horen


    4. Message by: cosmos2 11/06/2004 21:52:01 GMT
      Bedankt voor 't succes wensen.. ook jullie succes gewenst.. sulle jullie nodig hebben..;-)

      RoCkDuDe Van Team Cosmos2


Discussion: hoeveel wieltjes?!?!?!?! By: de duplo's 09/29/2004 15:16:51 GMT
He, hoeveel wielen moge we gebruiken in de league?
en kan je nou ook eigen wielen toevoegen of doe je het met wat er in de doos zit?

nieuwsgierig, Montaigne

  1. Message by: omega 09/28/2004 18:01:36 GMT
    als het maar originele wielen van lego zijn. je mag dus ook allerlei onderdelen gebruiken die uit andere legodozen komen.
    alleen de electrische onderdelen, zoals motoren en sensoren zijn beperkt tot het aantal dat bij de doos zit plus een extra motor en extra lichtsensor
    niels van omega


    1. Message by: de duplo's 09/29/2004 15:16:51 GMT
      oke thanx


Discussion: eten By: de duplo's 11/01/2004 16:20:02 GMT
bij het eten serveren moet het eten dan op de tafel geplaatst worden of er naast

  1. Message by: HCO 10/02/2004 14:09:47 GMT
    Hi, het eten moet op de tafel terechtkomen.


    1. Message by: de duplo's 10/04/2004 15:43:21 GMT
      Als het eten op de tafel gezet wordt, mag het dienblad er dan onder blijven staan of niet?


    2. Message by: Cyborgs 10/04/2004 21:11:19 GMT
      Naar mijn idee MOET het dienblad eronder blijven staan!!


    3. Message by: Cyborgs 11/01/2004 16:20:02 GMT
      ja, het dienblad moet SAMEN met het eten op de tafel. in dit geval in het dus het makkelijkst als je het dienblad er ook onder laat staan


Discussion: Winnaar vorig jaar By: cosmos2 10/19/2004 11:04:26 GMT
Vanuit de FLL-organisatie zijn we te weten gekomen dat
het "Vikingteam" van de Montesorischool in Waalsdorp vorig jaar heeft gewonnen. Mijn vraag is of er afbeeldingen van deze robot zijn. (i.v.m. een mars museum-expositie) bedankt.

  1. Message by: Cyborgs 10/03/2004 23:52:00 GMT
    Hi, Cosmos2, ja er zijn wel afbeeldingen van de robot alleen valt er niet echt iets marsachtigs aan te zien. Het was een robot die de missies moest uitvoeren; de lego op de tafel had veel meer weg van mars (vooral het tetrahedron en de marsrover).
    Waalsdorp doet overigens dit jaar weer mee onder de teamnaam "CYBORGS" dus als je er toch meer over wilt weten laat het dan horen!
    Succes met jullie robot!

    CYBORGS


    1. Message by: Cyborgs 10/19/2004 11:04:26 GMT
      cyborgs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Discussion: stoelen By: de duplo's 10/06/2004 13:30:13 GMT
heey lego collega's ik heb een vraag.
bij de missie met de tafel moeten de stoelen aangeschoven worden of hoeven de stoelen alleen in het ovaal staan.
alvast bedankt!!

de duplo's

  1. Message by: HCO 10/02/2004 14:08:24 GMT
    Hi, de stoelen hoeven allen in het ovaal te staan
    succes


    1. Message by: aloysius college 10/05/2004 19:30:28 GMT
      volgens mij krijg je er meer punten voor als ze goed zijn aangeschoven maar dat weet ik niet zeker


    2. Message by: Rikkert 10/06/2004 13:30:13 GMT
      Nee, elke stoel die met 4 poten binnen de ovaal staan levert 10 punten op, omgevallen stoelen niet en als ze gedeeltelijk buiten de ovaal staan ook niet


Discussion: eten dieren By: cosmos2 11/03/2004 22:43:33 GMT
Welk eten moet naar de dieren vervoerd worden?
weet iemand dit?
bedankt

  1. Message by: de duplo's 10/04/2004 20:42:00 GMT
    de 3 zwarte blokjes staat in de missies als goed is


    1. Message by: RoBoBende 10/15/2004 14:48:44 GMT
      gooi de hele site op z'n kop en je vindt het wel


    2. Message by: Gemini College 10/15/2004 16:01:36 GMT
      Welke 3 zwarte blokjes? De ronde blokjes die dezelfde vorm hebben als het eten in de bak of moeten het zwarte vierkante blokjes zijn van 2 bij 2, dus echte lego-steentjes zal ik maar zeggen?


    3. Message by: Cyborgs 10/19/2004 22:26:48 GMT
      Ja de drie ronde zwarte blokjes zijn het voer voor de dieren


    4. Message by: aloysius college 11/03/2004 22:43:33 GMT
      In de bouwinstructies voor de speelmat staat dat de drie zwarte ronde steentjes in de mand van het eten horen. Moet je dan drie andere steentjes nemen? En moet je die zelf meenemen naar de wedstrijden?
      groetjes van het AC team


Discussion: afmetingen tafel By: cosmos2 10/23/2004 23:20:31 GMT
hallo,

Op de website staat dat de dikte v/d rand 5 cm moet zijn, maar dat is, als je 2 tafels tegen elkaar schuift, toch veel te dik voor de basket? Hoe zit dat?
Ook vragen we ons af of de dikte van het tafelblad een specifieke waarde moet hebben. Hoe zit dat?

Bedankt

  1. Message by: RoBoBende 10/06/2004 11:19:55 GMT
    tsja, ik vroeg me precies hetzelfde af!
    Komt de basket dan soms in het midden? (scheelt wel mooi 2,5 cm dus!)
    De dikte van het tafelblad doet er niet veel toe, de balken aan de onderkant zijn volgens mij alleen voor de stijfheid en tegen doorzakken.

    Maar ook wij willen graag een "officiele" reactie hierop!

    Robobende!


    1. Message by: Rikkert 10/06/2004 13:37:20 GMT
      de dikte van de rand is inderdaad 5 cm, met twee tafels tegen elkaar wordt een dubbele rand dus 10 cm, daaroverheen wordt de basket geplaatst.

      Het tafelblad heeft geen bepaalde dikte, als het maar een stevig en glad (recht) oppervlak heeft.

      De plaatsing van de onderdelen is op de missiepagina wel aardig te zien:
      http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=13860


    2. Message by: HCO 10/23/2004 23:20:31 GMT
      Hi Allemaal. Dit is een fout! Inderdaad moet het slechts 4 cm zijn en dus geen 5. Wij hebben 12 tafels die we moeten laten aanpassen! Rikkert van de centrale organisatie zou dit dus moeten wijzigen. Ik zou zeggen bel de st. TechniekPromotie even als je nog twijfelt.


Discussion: trap By: cosmos2 10/07/2004 16:14:14 GMT
hoi,

Als de robot op de bovenste trede van de trap staat, en de grond niet meer aanraakt, (en dus alle punten krijgt), mag deze dan met de hand weer terug worden gezet naar de basis?

bedankt...

  1. Message by: de duplo's 10/07/2004 14:48:52 GMT
    volgens mij niet ik denk dat je stil moet staan voor iets van een seconde of 2 en dan er gewoon van afrijd.
    anders oet je ff de beheer mailen :)


    1. Message by: RoBoBende 10/07/2004 16:14:14 GMT
      nee je moet er op blijven staan tot de tijd om is dus het is handig om de trap als laatste te doen


Discussion: trap By: cosmos2 11/01/2004 16:17:12 GMT
hoi,

Als de robot op de bovenste trede van de trap staat, en de grond niet meer aanraakt, (en dus alle punten krijgt), mag deze dan met de hand weer terug worden gezet naar de basis?

bedankt...

  1. Message by: HCO 10/30/2004 23:55:00 GMT
    Hi, dat zou niet handig zijn. De punten worden geteld als de tijd om is. Als de robot dan op de trap staat krijge je punten anders niet. Dat geld dus voor alle onderdelen in het veld. Als je eerst de cd op het hoesje hebt en je rijdt het vervolgens weer eraf dan heb je dus pech.


    1. Message by: Cyborgs 11/01/2004 16:17:12 GMT
      het is dus inderdaad handig te eindigen met die missie en de robot er op te laten staan, anders krijgt je punten niet


Discussion: Bril By: RoBoBende 11/01/2004 16:16:11 GMT
moet je schuive of tille die bril
alfast bedankt arman robobende

  1. Message by: aloysius college 10/26/2004 21:59:16 GMT
    Volgens mij mag het allebei, als hij maar in de basis terecht komt.
    succes, AC team


    1. Message by: Cyborgs 11/01/2004 16:16:11 GMT
      het maakt inderdaad niet uit hoe je de bril in de basis brengt. als hij er maar komt.

      of je dan tilt, schuift, trekt, vliegt :) wat dan ook. als hij maar in de basis komt


Discussion: wedstrijd tafel By: VanKinderenMuseum 10/13/2004 17:50:22 GMT
Wij zijn het team van Het Van Kinderen Museum.

Wij hadden een vraag over het meenemen van de wedstrijd tafel naar de FLL. Want moet dat nou.
Vriendelijke groet...

Het Van Kinderen Museum

  1. Message by: Cyborgs 10/13/2004 17:50:22 GMT
    Nee, je hoeft de tafel niet mee te nemen (althans niet in regio West) De tafel is voor jullie zelf handig om goed te kunnen oefenen.


Discussion: dienblad. By: Stanislas 11/01/2004 16:15:19 GMT
Hoi,
even een vraag over het dienblad,
moet dit naast de tafel of op de tafel komen te staan?

Gr het stanislas team.

  1. Message by: RoBoBende 10/15/2004 14:40:40 GMT
    volgens mij er op
    nout robobende


    1. Message by: Cyborgs 11/01/2004 16:15:19 GMT
      het dienblad moet samen met de bak met eten OP de tafel staan


Discussion: Hoe kan ik een goede grijparm maken. By: Gemini College 11/06/2004 21:47:50 GMT
mijn grijp arm breekt steeds af en ik heb 2 motortjes nodig om het te laten werken. Kan iemand mij helpen!!!

  1. Message by: HCO 10/14/2004 23:28:18 GMT
    Hi,

    Ik heb geen oplossing maar zoek eens bij legomodellen op internet om ideeen te krijgen. Je kunt ook eens in het Engels posten bij de andere landen....

    Succes


    1. Message by: Cyborgs 10/19/2004 11:05:24 GMT
      succes


      1. Message by: cosmos2 11/06/2004 21:47:50 GMT
        Je kunt ook via radartjes sorgen dat er een dubbele aandrijving komt op maar 1 motor..:) LtRz.. CoSmoS2


Discussion: Trap By: VanKinderenMuseum 11/01/2004 16:14:26 GMT
Weet iemand of je op de trap moet blijven staan nadat je die missie hebt gedaan.

Het Van Kinderen Museum

  1. Message by: Risbotics12 10/18/2004 22:04:33 GMT
    Ja, de punten tellen alleen maar als de robot op het einde van de tijs op de trap staat.


    1. Message by: Cyborgs 11/01/2004 16:14:26 GMT
      ja, de robot moet er eindigen.
      dus als je de trap doet moet je het als laatste doen. je krijgt de punten alleen als de robot daar blijft staat


Discussion: dieren eten geven By: aloysius college 11/01/2004 13:49:15 GMT
Weet iemand soms of de drie zwarte brokken voor de dieren tegelijk of per stuk vervoerd moeten worden?
En hoe kunnen de dieren van hun plek komen als ze volgens de speelmat vast gemaakt zijn?
groetjes van het AC team

  1. Message by: Cyborgs 10/27/2004 16:22:43 GMT
    De blokjes moeten(mogen) tegelijk afgeleverd worden en de dieren kunnen bewegen omdat deze NIET vastgeplakt dienen te zitten.

    Succes verder (van het cyborgs team, bijna jullie buren (waalsdorpschool))


    1. Message by: aloysius college 10/28/2004 20:05:36 GMT
      Volgens deze website moeten de dieren wel vastgeplakt zijn, zie opstelling veldonderdelen. Kan iemand hier duidelijkheid over geven?
      groetjes van het AC team


    2. Message by: HCO 10/29/2004 21:49:32 GMT
      De dieren zullen in den haag vastgeplakt zitten. Maar het lijkt me dat als je er met je kar overheen rijdt ze toch losgaan.


    3. Message by: Veurs1 11/01/2004 13:49:15 GMT
      Wij hebben een karretje gebouwd die over de dieren ging en ze bleven vastzitten


Discussion: ballen in de basis By: aloysius college 10/29/2004 21:47:55 GMT
Moeten de ballen in de basis op de plek staan die op de foto is aangegeven of mogen ze ook op een andere plek in de basis staan?
groetjes van het AC team

  1. Message by: Cyborgs 10/27/2004 16:24:09 GMT
    De ballen mogen overal liggen als ze maar binnen de basislijnen blijven!!!


    1. Message by: HCO 10/29/2004 21:47:55 GMT
      Alle materialen mag je in de basis verplaatsen en zo leggen als je zelf wilt


Discussion: hek By: aloysius college 10/29/2004 21:47:10 GMT
Naar welke kant moet het hek open?
groetjes van het AC team

  1. Message by: RoBoBende 10/29/2004 15:07:12 GMT
    weet ik ook nie
    kijk in de bouw instructies

    da groete robobende


    1. Message by: HCO 10/29/2004 21:47:10 GMT
      OP de mat staat geschreven HINGE tussen de vierkantjes voor de poten van het hek. HINGE = scharnier dus aan die kant moet het scharnier. Het hek draait dan van de dieren weg richting achterkant vd tafel.


Discussion: bril in de basis By: aloysius college 11/01/2004 16:13:14 GMT
Als de robot de bril binnen de basis heeft gebracht en de bril zit nog op de robot, mag deze er dan met de hand vanaf gehaald worden of moet de robot deze in de basis neerleggen? En moet de bril dan de hele wedstrijd daar blijven liggen of mag hij in een hoekje gelegd worden met de hand?
groetjes van het AC team

  1. Message by: Cyborgs 11/01/2004 16:13:14 GMT
    zo gauw de robot binnen de basis is, mag je hem aanraken. je mag dan dus oom de bril van de robot afhalen.
    daarna moet hij in de basis blijven liggen. hij mag dus niet van de tafel af of weer terug in het veld!


Discussion: help!!! By: omega 11/04/2004 11:52:13 GMT
wij zijn de bouwtekening van de bril kwijt, en ook de CDrom, zou iemand deze bouwtekening aan ons kunnen mailen?
edeneef@scz.nl
bedankt alvast

  1. Message by: De Handy's 11/01/2004 14:47:33 GMT
    we zenden het wel naar jullie toe als het niet te groot is

    Groeten
    De Handy's
    Daniel Giessenburg


    1. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 15:26:00 GMT
      Do you speak German?


      1. Message by: omega 11/04/2004 11:52:13 GMT
        yes, but we already found it, thanks


    2. Message by: omega 11/04/2004 11:51:15 GMT
      gelukkig is de cdrom eindelijk weer boven water gekomen, maar toch bedankt


Discussion: stoel weg laten halen? By: Cyborgs 11/01/2004 16:10:25 GMT
mag je de stoel weg laten halen als je naar de poort wil of de bushalte.
we hebben gelezen dat het mag als het de puntentelling niet direct be*nvloed, is dat het geval als we niet de stoelen missie doen maar de poort/bushalte?

Discussion: Onderzoeksvraag By: Gemini College 11/02/2004 15:10:08 GMT
Hallo allemaal! Hopelijk gaat alles goed en zijn de teams uit de regio Zuid-Holland klaar voor zaterdag! Alvast succes. Ik heb een vraagje over de onderzoeksvraag. Dit houdt een presentatie in over het onderwerp "No Limits", maar hiernaast wordt er gevraagd over een lied of een ander soort creatieve input. Weet iemand hier meer van? Gaat dit tegelijkertijd of is dat weer iets anders of hoe zit dat! Alvast bedankt!

Discussion: Onderzoeksvraag By: Gemini College 11/02/2004 15:10:14 GMT
Hallo allemaal! Hopelijk gaat alles goed en zijn de teams uit de regio Zuid-Holland klaar voor zaterdag! Alvast succes. Ik heb een vraagje over de onderzoeksvraag. Dit houdt een presentatie in over het onderwerp "No Limits", maar hiernaast wordt er gevraagd over een lied of een ander soort creatieve input. Weet iemand hier meer van? Gaat dit tegelijkertijd of is dat weer iets anders of hoe zit dat! Alvast bedankt!

Discussion: eten dieren By: Gemini College 11/04/2004 14:45:21 GMT
bij de missie dieren eten geven: mag je die drie zwarte ronde blokjes aan elkaar klikken of moeten die los? anders rollen ze weg als ze vallen.
groetjes gemini college

  1. Message by: Cyborgs 11/04/2004 14:44:47 GMT
    ze moeten los volgens mij


    1. Message by: Cyborgs 11/04/2004 14:45:06 GMT
      groeten cyorgs!!!!!!!!!!!


    2. Message by: Cyborgs 11/04/2004 14:45:21 GMT
      ze moeten los volgens mij


Discussion: EINDHOVEN By: de duplo's 02/13/2005 23:40:40 GMT
wij gaan naar eindhoven we zien jullie daar ;)

  1. Message by: RoBoBende 11/07/2004 14:53:02 GMT
    Hallo Duplo's

    Gefeliciteerd!
    Ook alle andere teams uit de regiofinale West, die door zijn naar de landelijke finale in Eindhoven trouwens gefeliciteerd.
    De Robobende wil graag alvast het HCO en alle vrijwilligers en sponsors heel hartelijk danken voor de geweldige dag.

    RoBoBende was here!


    1. Message by: Cyborgs 11/07/2004 20:36:31 GMT
      Wij willen ons zeer graag aansluiten bij de robobende en alle mensen die er zo'n onvergetelijke dag van hebben gemaakt danken voor alles!!!

      CYBORGS


    2. Message by: de duplo's 11/08/2004 21:08:22 GMT
      Zelf zeg ik dat dit de gaafste dag van het jaar was
      heb er geen moment spijt van dat ik mee heb gedaan
      alle anderen nogmaals veel suc6 in de regio finales


    3. Message by: HCO 11/09/2004 09:03:02 GMT
      Heeeee, da's leuk om te horen zeg. Veel succes met de voorbereidingen en tot ziens in Eindhoven!

      Leon


    4. Message by: Cyborgs 12/17/2004 15:46:40 GMT
      bedankt leon we zien je daar


    5. Message by: RobotRulers776 02/13/2005 23:39:54 GMT
      Who is going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia.
      Please post a message in the American Forum. We were just curious.

      L3 Robot Rulers


    6. Message by: RobotRulers776 02/13/2005 23:40:40 GMT
      PS Please write a response in English.
      Thanks



Folder: - JAPAN - [for Japanese members] 02/15/2005 00:53:48 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Japan in this folder.


Folder: asgdr 10/09/2004 03:56:46 GMT



Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/15/2005 00:53:48 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers


Folder: - KOREA - [for Korean members] 02/15/2005 00:53:19 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Korea in this folder.


Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/15/2005 00:53:19 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers

Discussion: slt By: tezenas 10/01/2004 10:32:07 GMT
sa va gambler


Folder: - MEXICO - [for Mexican members] 03/05/2005 13:44:43 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Mexico in this folder.




Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/23/2005 00:46:26 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers

Discussion: Internationals en Atlanta, Georgia By: RobotRulers776 02/23/2005 00:46:26 GMT
*Qui*nes son los equipos que van al Internationals en Atlanta, Georgia? Somos los reglas de la robusteza L3 de York nueva occidental y quisi*ramos saber qui*n va. Fije por favor su respuesta en la carpeta de Estados Unidos debajo de miscel*neo y entonces bajo festival del mundo de la carpeta 1 en Atlanta, Georgia. Marca De las Reglas De la Robusteza De las Gracias L3


Folder: Miscelaneo 11/18/2004 23:35:13 GMT



Folder: Misiones 11/23/2004 00:19:24 GMT
Este folder es pra que aporten sus ideas para misiones dificileso todas

Discussion: Comida de los animales By: Asimov6303 11/23/2004 00:19:24 GMT
OK, para la comida deben llevarla a lpos anomales, por lo tanto deben abrir la puerta, simplemente hagan un vil gancho y que jkale la puerta, *mas ideas?, hagan una discusion de puertas o pongan mas aqui, ustedes hagan las discusiones con los titulos de las misiones porfavor, sigan en contacto conmigo, les puedo ser util, o una pesadilla


Folder: Missiones 11/18/2004 23:34:28 GMT



Folder: Obstaculos 11/18/2004 23:33:59 GMT



Folder: Robot 11/18/2004 23:36:08 GMT



Folder: Saludos 11/18/2004 23:35:41 GMT


Discussion: Bienvenidos a FLL 2004 en Mexico! By: Sciencefreaks6301 10/25/2004 20:48:30 GMT
Bienvenidos a la temporada 2004 de FLL en Mexico. Esperamos ver a todos los equipos muy pronto en l*nea, colaborando con equipos de Mexico y de otras partes del mundo.

Cualquier duda estamos a sus *rdenes en www.edcmexico.org o al email bgomez@edcmexico.org.

Suerte!

  1. Message by: 10/08/2004 23:50:50 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: Asimov6303 10/20/2004 23:28:59 GMT
      hola me pueden ayudar con la programacion del reto de las sillas con sensor de rotacion


      1. Message by: hayas6305 10/25/2004 20:48:30 GMT
        Hola , soy Lula una de los coaches de hayas6305 de veracruz usamos robolab para programar el sensor de rotaci*n si te sirve escribeme para ayudarte mas. Recuerda que el sensor de rotaci*n usa 16/16 PARA UNA VUELTA.


Discussion: Bienvenidos a FLL 2004 en Mexico! By: Sciencefreaks6301 10/28/2004 02:24:36 GMT
Bienvenidos a la temporada 2004 de FLL en Mexico. Esperamos ver a todos los equipos muy pronto en l*nea, colaborando con equipos de Mexico y de otras partes del mundo.

Cualquier duda estamos a sus *rdenes en www.edcmexico.org o al email bgomez@edcmexico.org.

Suerte!

  1. Message by: hayas6305 09/26/2004 06:54:24 GMT
    Hola Somos es Colegio Las Hayas de Xalapa Ver, ya empezaremos el miercoles 29 de septiembre , les mandamos un saludo.


    1. Message by: hayas6305 10/28/2004 02:24:36 GMT
      hola soy Pedro Bordes.Soy del colegio las hayas Xalapa,Ver
      queria preguntar lo siguiente:*Tambi*n cuenta el tiempo en el que se quitan las piezas?


Discussion: discuter By: tezenas 09/17/2004 11:28:09 GMT


Discussion: Dimensiones del tapete By: asfcyborgs6306 11/06/2004 19:07:43 GMT
Saludos a todos los equipos de FLL de M*xico.
*Alguien ya modific* las dimensiones de su tapete? Estamos a punto de hacerlo y quisiera saber si el borde inferior mencionado en los FAQ*s se refiere al de la base solamente o a todo incluyendo donde se ponen las senalamientos de rutas. Se agradecen sus comentarios. Para cualquier cosa en que podamos ayudar, aqui estamos.
May the RCX be with you,
ASF CYBORGS Colegio Americano DF

  1. Message by: BP Robotics 11/06/2004 19:07:43 GMT
    el tapete preferentemente no debe ser recortado


Discussion: Comida para Mascotas By: asfcyborgs6306 10/13/2004 18:16:49 GMT
Queria preguntar si la comida para las mascotas tiene que estar adentro de la charola o si puede estar afuera pero sigue estando adentro del base. Como que tenemos que darle comida a los mascotas y a la gente en la mesa...si podriamos hacer esto. Como que no queremos llevar la comida de los mascotas a la gente. Gracias por su atencion.

asfcyborgs6306

  1. Message by: Mexico Moderator 10/13/2004 18:16:49 GMT
    A continuaci*n se reproduce lo que dice al respecto la secci*n de "Montaje del Campo de Juego" que puedes consultar
    aqu*


    Alimento para Mascota

    Las 3 piezas negras de comida ser*n usadas como alimento de mascotas. Deben estar separadas del resto de la comida y ser mantenidas en la Base (no van asegurados al tapete), en dondequiera que el equipo desee guardarlas antes de cargarlas manualmente al robot para una misi*n.


    Es decir, el alimento para humanos y para mascotas est*n en la Base pero separadas. El alimento para personas se guarda en su taz*n.



Discussion: el perro y el gato By: asfcyborgs6306 11/23/2004 00:09:30 GMT
para darle la comida al los animalitos que tenemos que hacer sacar las tres piezas de la charola en donde esta la comida, van a estar en otra parte o tenemos que llevar toda la charola

  1. Message by: 10/13/2004 18:23:47 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: Mexico Moderator 10/13/2004 18:28:46 GMT
      La comida para mascota se mantiene en la Base, separada de la comida para personas que se mantiene en su taz*n. Para la comida de mascotas no hay ning*n taz*n.
      Para ver una respuesta a una pregunta parecida a esta haz click aqu*.


    2. Message by: Asimov6303 11/23/2004 00:09:30 GMT
      HOLA PARA LA COMIDA DE LOS PERROS LAS TRES PIEZAS VAN JUNTAS O SEPARADAS


Discussion: Escaleras By: asfcyborgs6306 10/13/2004 18:36:10 GMT
Queria preguntar si las escaleras es la ultima cosa que tenemos que hacer. Como que dice que ahi nos quedamos hasta que el partido termine...pero como que o esta muy claro queria saber si esa era la ultima. Muchas gracias...

asfcyborgs6306

  1. Message by: Mexico Moderator 10/13/2004 18:36:10 GMT
    Si. La misi*n de las escaleras es la que debes hacer al final.

    Recuerda que el *rbitro se fija en c*mo quedaron las cosas al final del partido. Si ve que el robot est* arriba de las escaleras al final del partido entonces te da puntos.
    Por el contrario, si despu*s de subir las escaleras el robot se baja y contin*a haciendo otras cosas entonces no te dar* puntos por esta misi*n.


Discussion: Tama*o del robot By: JJISSOCA10 11/07/2004 22:16:01 GMT
Una pregunta. * De que tama*o tiene que ser el robot?.

  1. Message by: JJISSOCA10 10/16/2004 23:32:34 GMT
    Hola a todos. Soy el coach del equipo JJISSOCA. Somos del Distrito Federal y venga mucho animo en la competencia !!!!!!!! cualquier pregunta en la que crean les puedo ayudar no duden en hacerla.


    1. Message by: asfcyborgs6306 10/19/2004 23:12:41 GMT
      Bueno si tienen que pasar por abajo de la puerta entonces el robot tiene que caber. Para saber ve y lee la respuesta de una duscussion llamada Puertas... Pero ademas de esop puede ser de qualquier tamano. Mucha Suerte!


    2. Message by: BP Robotics 11/06/2004 19:15:55 GMT
      El tama*o del robot tiene que caber en un cubo imaginario de 40cm x 40cm x 40cm segun dice el reglamento, chequenlo si gustan.

      Vaquita la del Baden


    3. Message by: TERMAPOLIS 11/07/2004 22:16:01 GMT
      El limite del tama*o del robot sera el ancho y largo de la puerta o de lo contrario no podra entrar a ella ni con las macotas, por otro lado si es muy grande no podria subir adecuadamente la escaleras.

      Saludos


Discussion: Puertas... By: asfcyborgs6306 11/06/2004 19:18:50 GMT
Para abrir la puerta tenemos que afuerzas pasar por abajo de ello...o podemos abrirlo con una mano sin pasar por abajo? POr que si si, entonces el robot tiene que caber por la puerta. Nomas para las personas que quieren saber hacerca del tamano de la puerta...
Gracias...
asfcyborgs6306

  1. Message by: hayas6305 10/30/2004 23:28:48 GMT
    *cual es el orden de las misiones?


    1. Message by: BP Robotics 11/06/2004 19:18:50 GMT
      El orden de las misiones es independiente, es decir, puedes realizar cualquier mision en el orden que quieras, a excepcion de las escaleras rojas que tendra que ser con la que se termina.

      Vaquita la del Baden


Discussion: Comida Para Personas By: asfcyborgs6306 11/02/2004 23:34:08 GMT
Cuando El robot tiene que darle comida a las personas (no a las mascotas) tiene que llevarse soalmente el platon o tambien la charola? Si solamente usamos el plato nos quitan puntos?
Gracias...
asfcyborgs6306

  1. Message by: hayas6305 11/02/2004 23:34:08 GMT
    se puede cambar al rcx de un vehiculo a otro


Discussion: Urgente! By: asfcyborgs6306 11/07/2004 16:37:25 GMT
hola...solamente quieria saber si afuerzas se tiene que llevar la charola para la comida de los humanos. o si podemos llevar el plato sin la charola. gracias!

asfcyborgs6306

  1. Message by: MIT6363 11/07/2004 16:37:25 GMT
    En las reglas de las misiones estipula el plato con la comida.


Discussion: orden de las misiones By: hayas6305 11/18/2004 23:22:31 GMT
Hola queremos saber en que orden seran las misiones o si pueden ser en cualquier orden.

  1. Message by: asfcyborgs6306 11/18/2004 23:22:31 GMT
    pueden ser en cualquier orden...pero cuidando que las escaleras deben de ser hastal final..
    asfcyborgs6306


Discussion: orden de las misiones By: hayas6305 11/07/2004 16:38:36 GMT
Hola queremos saber en que orden seran las misiones o si pueden ser en cualquier orden.

  1. Message by: MIT6363 11/07/2004 16:38:36 GMT
    En cualquier orden. La *nica misi*n condicionada es la de subir las escaleras que debe ser la *ltima.
    Saludos,
    B*rbara


Discussion: hola By: hayas6305 11/06/2004 19:25:01 GMT
en el de la comida de los perros
*se van a quitar las sillas despues del reto?

  1. Message by: BP Robotics 11/06/2004 19:25:01 GMT
    No, no se mueve nada del tapete a no ser que se le pida al Arbitro y aplicando su criterio se pueda o no quitar las sillas. Que en realidad no se puede.

    Vaquita la del Baden


Discussion: preguntas By: hayas6305 11/07/2004 16:44:50 GMT
*se puede cambiar de llantas para cada mision?

*cual es el orden especifico de las misiones, hay alguna que debe realizarse al principio, una al final?

*se pude cambiar el RCX de un vehiculo a otro?

  1. Message by: MIT6363 11/07/2004 16:44:50 GMT
    -si puedes cambiar de llantas para cada misi*n.
    -ningun orden, excepto las escaleras que deber* ser la *ltima misi*n realizada
    -puedes cambiar el RCX de un veh*culo a otro siempre que cumplas con las reglas estipuladas en cuanto a cantidad de sensores y motores, y tama*o del robot.
    saludos,
    B*rbara


Discussion: fin de misiones By: TERMAPOLIS 11/08/2004 21:49:08 GMT
me gustaria saber si despues de cada mision sera necesario regresar a la base o si es posible realizar varias a la vez

  1. Message by: MIT6363 11/08/2004 21:49:08 GMT
    Es posible realizar varias misiones a la vez. Recuerden que la *nica misi*n que est* condicionada, es la de las escaleras que deber*n realizar al final.
    Saludos,
    B*rbara


Discussion: obstaculo entre escaleras y puerta By: hayas6305 11/18/2004 23:24:56 GMT
*Que hacemos con el obstaculo que esta entre las escaleras y puerta? *Qu* funci*n tiene?

  1. Message by: TERMAPOLIS 11/09/2004 16:04:02 GMT
    El unico objeto es que no usemos esa via para ingresar a la parte de donde se encuentran las mascotas, es dexcir sera necesrio entrar por la puerta.


    1. Message by: asfcyborgs6306 11/18/2004 23:24:56 GMT
      pues es para que tu puedas encontrar otra manera de entrar por donde estan los mascotas...el robot obviamente no puede pasar eso
      Hannah


Discussion: varios robots By: TERMAPOLIS 11/21/2004 02:39:20 GMT
es posible llevar mas de un robot para usar un robot para ciertas misiones y otro para cubrir las otras (claro respetando que cada uno de ellos respeten las condiciones tablecidas del numero de motores, sensores, tama*o, etc).

  1. Message by: MIT6363 11/21/2004 02:39:20 GMT
    CHEQUEN BIEN LAS REGLAS. SE ESPECIFICA UN SOLO ROBOT CON LOS MATERIALES LISTADOS.


Discussion: tiempo de pruebas By: TERMAPOLIS 11/12/2004 04:46:38 GMT
Solo una peque*a duda, segun parece tenemos 2 1/2 minutos en cada ronda para acumular el maximo numero de puntos? estoy en lo correcto o el tiempo de las pruebas es diferente?

  1. Message by: BP Robotics 11/12/2004 04:46:38 GMT
    Si, estas en lo correcto, son 2 y medio minutos para todas las pruebas.
    BP Robotics
    Be Prepared
    Vaquita la del Baden


Discussion: pelotas By: hayas6305 11/11/2004 23:42:26 GMT
si la pelota cae en la zona blanca *se quita por si se puede meter otra o solo se pone la pelota en la zona blanca una vez?

  1. Message by: asfcyborgs6306 11/11/2004 23:42:26 GMT
    no..nosortos hablamos a las personas de las reglas y dicen que ya que una pelota cae adentro de la area balnca ya no lo quitan. porque luego para que solamente un equipo pueda ganar los 50 puntos extras...\

    asfcyborgs 6306


Discussion: pelotas By: hayas6305 11/15/2004 18:48:36 GMT
si la pelota cae en la zona blanca *se quita por si se puede meter otra o solo se pone la pelota en la zona blanca una vez?

  1. Message by: TERMAPOLIS 11/11/2004 05:30:13 GMT
    al momento de que una pelota es metida en la zona blanca se solicita al juez que la retire por si se desea meter otra, pero desde mi punto de vista esto dejaria de hacer otras pruebas (misiones) por el tiempo tan corto de 2 1/2 minutos.


    1. Message by: hayas6305 11/15/2004 18:48:36 GMT
      Hola somos de las Hayas ,*El robot de las pelotas debe tomar la pelota de la base o tu se la pones en la mano robotica ?


Discussion: charola de comida By: hayas6305 11/15/2004 20:39:00 GMT
Una pregunta la charola de comida para ir a la mesa el robot lo recoge de las base y luego la pone ? *Se le puede colocar la charola al robot en la base?

  1. Message by: TERMAPOLIS 11/15/2004 20:39:00 GMT
    Me imagino que la prueba sera que el robot tome la comida y la lleve a la mesa, pero de todos modos considero que es buena y oportuna tu pregunta y con la regla de que en la base podemos meter mano (desde este punto de vista podria ser afirmativa tu pregunta).


Discussion: inicio/fin By: hayas6305 11/16/2004 04:58:35 GMT
lo vehiculos tienen que regresar a la base a la hora de terminar una mmision, si al hacerlo se mueven algunos objetos *se penaliza quitandonos puntos?

  1. Message by: TERMAPOLIS 11/16/2004 04:58:35 GMT
    despues de realizar una mision debe conservarse cada parte completada, pues los jueces contaran los puntos de cada mision hasta el termino del tiempo que es de 2 1/2 minutos, es decir si realizaron con exito la mision de poner las sillas pero al tratar de hacer otra mision mueve la silla y la saca del tapete entonces no contara.


Discussion: HOLA! By: asfcyborgs6306 11/20/2004 20:33:32 GMT
Solamente queria decir hola a todos los equipos y que muchisima suerte a todos. Ojala que su robot y presentacion les salga increible! Nos vemos el 27 de Noviembre para poder conocernos todos!

asfcyborgs6306

  1. Message by: TERMAPOLIS 11/20/2004 05:49:53 GMT
    gracias y estoy seguro que sera una gran experiencia para todos y principalmente para los ni*os. Nosotros somos de Aguascalientes y todo el equipo esta muy animado para la competencia y sera una gran experiencia para todos.

    Saludos a todos.


    1. Message by: hayas6305 11/20/2004 20:33:32 GMT
      Gracias desde Xalapa nos alegra saber que nos conoceremos y que seremos una nueva comunidad.

      Feliz viaje a los de fuera


Discussion: Ayuda para retos, mio o suyo By: Asimov6303 11/26/2004 17:58:40 GMT
OK, si alguien quisiera compartir sus ideas sobre los retos mas ca*ones, porfa contactenme,ayuda con la resistencia de las llantas, preguntenme a mi, o si me dan alguna idea para finalizar un reto, diganmela y yo desarrollo los mecanismos, solo AYUDA, todo lo que pido, mandenme un mail al nenoskita90@hotmail.com

  1. Message by: MIT6363 11/21/2004 02:42:34 GMT
    UN TIP CON EL SENSOR DE ROTACION. DEL LADO DONDE LO COLOQUEN SIEMPRE HABRA UN POCO DE FRICCION QUE HARA QUE TIENDA A IRSE HACIA ESE LADO UN POCO. DEBEN COMPENSAR CON UN POCO MAS DE POTENCIA EN EL OTRO MOTOR.
    SUERTE!


    1. Message by: MIT6363 11/21/2004 02:44:45 GMT
      QUE MISIONES LES FALTAN. A NOSOTROS NOS FALTA LA CANASTA, AUNQUE LAS DEMAS MISIONES NO SIEMPRE SALEN COMPLETAMENTE BIEN.
      EL ROLLO DE LAS PILAS ES UN PROBLEMA. ESTAMOS USANDO PILAS RECARGABLES.


      1. Message by: Asimov6303 11/23/2004 00:04:19 GMT
        Yo les recomendaria que hicieran una elevacion que sostenga las bolas y luego con un motor las suelte


    2. Message by: 11/26/2004 17:58:40 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: Gente en esta cosa de mexico By: Asimov6303 11/21/2004 02:37:54 GMT
OK, como todos saben nosotros no somos los un9cos, alguien que sepa cuantas escuelas y equipos haya, avisenme

  1. Message by: MIT6363 11/21/2004 02:37:54 GMT
    HOLA EQUIPO ASIMOV:
    ESTE A*O HAY 22 EQUIPOS, DE LAS ESCUELAS AMERICAN SCHOOL, CEDROS, EDRON, MIGUEL ANGEL, BADEN POWELL, UVM, FRANCO INGLES, MARIA MONTESSORI, LICEO JAPONES, ESC.PUBLICA GRAL ANAYA, ESC. PUBLICA JARDIN BALBUENA, ESC. PUBLICA ZTAPALAPA, LAS HAYAS DE VERACRUZ, LICEO DE MONTERREY - NUEVO LEON, TERMAPOLIS DE AGUASCALIENTES, ESC. PUBLICA EMILIANO ZAPATA DE SONORA. ADEMAS HAY EQUIPOS INDEPENDIENTES NO AFILIADOS A NINGUNA ESCUELA EN PARTICULAR.

    EN TOTAL ESPERAMOS 220 CHIC@S EN EL EVENTO.

    AL DIA DE AYER TENIAMOS 39 EQUIPOS QUE YA NO ALCANZARON LUGAR PARA EL TORNEO Y YA SE INSCRIBIERON A LA LISTA DE ESPERA PARA EL 2005.

    MISS TERE CARRERA YA NOS PLATIC* QUE VAN MUY BIEN Y ESTAMOS SEGUROS DE QUE HAR*N UN EXCELENTE PAPEL EN EL TORNEO.

    DIVIERTANSE Y LOS VEMOS EL 27.

    SALUDOS,

    BARBARA GOMEZ DE NAVARRO


Discussion: Ya es ma*ana!!!! By: BP Robotics 11/27/2004 00:46:15 GMT
Muy buena suerte a todos los equipos que concursaran ma*ana, tal vez esta competencia va a estar muy re*ida, que todos trabajamos,,, y dimos nuestro esfuerzo hasta el final.
Esta discusion es para que den sus comentarios antes y despues del concurso.

Discussion: Pilhas recarreg*veis By: imaculada 03/05/2005 13:44:43 GMT
Alguem sabe como carregar pilhas recarreg*veis sem tir*-las do robo?


Folder: - SINGAPORE - [for Singapore members] 02/15/2005 00:51:48 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Singapore in this folder.


Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/15/2005 00:51:48 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers


Folder: - SKANDINAVIEN - [for Scandinavian members] 02/15/2005 00:52:13 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Scandinavia in this folder.




Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/15/2005 00:52:13 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers

Discussion: Flytte cd By: blindfolded 10/28/2004 17:59:52 GMT
Hva syne dere vi skal bruke p* * flytte cd? vi hadde tenkt noe med puter s*nn at vi ikke skader cd p* noen m*te... eller synes dere vi skal bruke stenger som vi legger inn under cd og flytter den?

  1. Message by: Robocanes942 10/01/2004 18:50:10 GMT
    English?


    1. Message by: tnt685293 10/06/2004 18:15:24 GMT
      Det skal ikke v*re viktig om CD'en blir skadet eller ikke, s* lenge den ikke brekker.

      Jeg vil ikke avsl*re hvordan vi velger * gj*re dette, men samle hele laget deres, og tenk dere n*ye om, s* kommer dere sikkert fram til en genial l*sning...

      Robocanes: He's norwegian, and I think this is a norwegian forum... Dont know for sure though.

      [Fredrik]


    2. Message by: kruttsterk lego 10/15/2004 18:49:07 GMT
      Det er ikke noe vits i * v*re forsiktig med CDen s* bruk stenger hvis dere synes det er enklest!


    3. Message by: Space Marines685293 10/28/2004 17:53:09 GMT
      jepp helt enig dere bruker vell en tomm cd?
      vis ikke s* kj*p en!!!


    4. Message by: 10/28/2004 17:59:30 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: 10/28/2004 17:59:52 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: Hvem vinner i *R? By: kruttsterk lego 10/29/2004 15:35:13 GMT
Hvem vinner i *r?
Og hvor mange poeng kommer de til * f*?

  1. Message by: engebratenteknoteam 10/25/2004 18:18:03 GMT
    Engebr*ten Teknoteam vinner!!!!!!!!!

    Mer enn full pott!!!


    1. Message by: kruttsterk lego 10/27/2004 18:05:45 GMT
      Dere er ikke de eneste som satser p* * f* over 400 poeng!!!
      Det gj*r ogs* vi i Kruttsterk LEGO!!!


    2. Message by: Space Marines685293 10/28/2004 17:49:12 GMT
      nhj

      hyuyugvmokpygjupyvr
      tj
      fuhy
      idfhuidf
      hyhuidgndu
      cdgtei
      hduci
      rydui
      uf
      igxdhutridut
      ridh
      yfduit
      rueidrhudi
      xg fudi
      thrd gfdtrdgrd


    3. Message by: Space Marines685293 10/28/2004 17:49:37 GMT
      hei alle sammmen jkeg heter nerd


    4. Message by: Space Marines685293 10/28/2004 17:50:59 GMT
      ehemm...det var en dust jeg jobber med men jeg tror ikke vi vinner for eeeeh.....
      det g*r litt d*rlig


    5. Message by: masterminds562 10/28/2004 21:36:17 GMT
      viiiiiiiiiii viiiiiiiiiiiiiinner


      1. Message by: kruttsterk lego 10/29/2004 15:35:13 GMT
        Sikker p* det da???


Discussion: ballkurven By: masterminds562 10/28/2004 21:33:58 GMT
Vet noen hva som er v*r side av kurven?

Discussion: ballkurven By: masterminds562 11/08/2004 15:37:14 GMT
Vet noen hva som er v*r side av kurven?

  1. Message by: blindfolded 11/08/2004 15:37:14 GMT
    Det skal egentlig ikke ha noe og si for oppdraget... men jeg har ogs* et problem ang*ende denne ballkurven.. Vi skj*nner ikke hvor ballene skal st* og om det er lov eller ikke og gi roboten en ball f*r den forlater basen... m* roboten hente en ball selv eller kan vi gi en ball til roboten mens den fremdeles er inne i basen?

    Mvh
    Blindolfed



Folder: - SOUTH AFRICA - [for South African members] 02/15/2005 00:51:22 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns South Africa in this folder.


Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/15/2005 00:51:22 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers

Discussion: slt By: tezenas 10/19/2004 22:46:36 GMT
salut les banboula

  1. Message by: The Computer Viruses378 10/19/2004 22:46:36 GMT
    VGUHIUHKHGIEJNVEKLUHFKSDNHFRKCK H R3LKJYHFEIUBTG;LFH;LDFJORHJ?



Folder: - TURKEY - [for Turkish members] 02/15/2005 00:50:55 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Turkey in this folder.


Folder: Internationals in Georgia [US] 02/15/2005 00:50:55 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers

Discussion: 3 motor By: LegoFredos1070 10/20/2004 20:02:49 GMT
can we take a 3 Motor

  1. Message by: tnt685293 10/06/2004 18:27:02 GMT
    Yes.

    [Fredrik]


    1. Message by: 10/19/2004 22:31:01 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: 10/19/2004 22:34:49 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/20/2004 20:02:49 GMT
      i don't know of you able to, but you are officially allowed to.



Folder: - UNITED KINGDOM - [for UK members] 05/07/2005 10:44:35 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns UK in this folder.


Folder: Anonymous the arm hunters of FFL 2004 11/25/2004 18:42:08 GMT
Welcome to Anonymous the theam bent on finding an arm.
Any one who is from Leeds we'll meet you there. With this Lego arm we wiil help 1000s of Lego men so please help. Or we'll kill you.


Folder: Challoner 320 11/27/2004 16:24:34 GMT
This folder shows queries that Challoner 320 have.


Folder: CTC STARS 12/01/2004 20:46:08 GMT


Discussion: Anyone having trouble By: CTC STARS 12/01/2004 20:46:08 GMT
Is antone having trouble building the robot I am just tell me if you are.

  1. Message by: Anonymous49 12/01/2004 20:00:00 GMT
    Go Suck your cock


    1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 12/01/2004 20:46:08 GMT
      Anonymous, there is no need to be rude like that. Your team can loose forum privliages if you keep it up.



Folder: Internationals in GA 02/15/2005 00:49:56 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in the United States folder under
Miscellaneous
and then under folder
1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia.

Thanks
L3 Robot Rulers


Folder: Star Rovers Team Stuff 01/13/2005 13:24:29 GMT
Star Rovers Team Stuff


Folder: problem 01/13/2005 13:24:29 GMT
our rcx egnored the order to reset rotation sensor does anybody has that problem?

Discussion: Message To Visitors By: StarRovers 11/25/2004 18:37:18 GMT
Welcome all Lego League Visitors. Star Rovers or Star Rovers 2, is just The Team For Belvidere Primary School. If you Want More Info On Star Rovers 2 Vistit http://www.starr2.tk or join our club at http://www.msnusers.com/sr2.

  1. Message by: TechSavvy926 09/30/2004 01:10:12 GMT
    Do you guys know if you can bring the basket back to base and load the balls mannualy?


    1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 09/30/2004 17:12:00 GMT
      No you can not. It is to stay there and be used by both teams at the two tables.


    2. Message by: Anonymous49 11/25/2004 18:34:30 GMT
      Dear Star Rovers
      Do you have instructions from your website about how to make an arm. I'll be on at 16:35
      From your new friends Anonymous


    3. Message by: Anonymous49 11/25/2004 18:37:18 GMT
      Soz but this stooooopid pc wont let me on so just send an Idea by this here forum.


Discussion: Excited By: 231hexbotics 11/25/2004 18:28:16 GMT
Hello has anyone entered this competition before? I am so excited I cant wait until the challenge is released on Saturday!!!!!!!

  1. Message by: blindfolded 09/27/2004 19:49:47 GMT
    Actually i joined last year.. the mission was hard but we did it.. (18th place of 36) Greetings from blindfolded. (last year was the first for me)


    1. Message by: Anonymous49 11/25/2004 18:28:16 GMT
      Just gimmy the instructions for an arm


Discussion: Hellooooooooo By: 231hexbotics 12/06/2004 18:57:16 GMT
Hello is anyone there. Can some one reply im sooooooo excited about saturday. Its going to take us 4 hours to get there. Doh oh well we get a day of school. Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!
Some one reply. Over and out Ana

  1. Message by: IAFLLModerator 09/16/2004 16:42:48 GMT
    I'm not sure who you are from the UK, but I am so glad you are excited about FLL 2004!

    All our best,
    FLL Iowa


    1. Message by: 231hexbotics 09/18/2004 11:36:25 GMT
      Hey we are from the UK and proud of it see ya


    2. Message by: wisrds1084 09/22/2004 16:14:28 GMT
      hello!!


    3. Message by: 21stcentars2357 10/13/2004 21:41:48 GMT
      gggggggggggggggg


    4. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 10/31/2004 22:45:24 GMT
      Hi there.
      greetings from Germany. where and when will your challenge take place? Do you have local events, too?
      We*ll go for our local Challenge next Sunday in Bocholt/NRW.
      Our Team is excited about the coming event, too. Already finished your Robots?

      Robotron rocks


    5. Message by: Illuminati 11/08/2004 15:08:47 GMT
      Hi


    6. Message by: Illuminati 11/25/2004 22:44:09 GMT
      illuminati here, we are the winners from the east kent region this is from em


    7. Message by: Anonymous49 12/01/2004 20:06:59 GMT
      We are getting through too.
      Same 4 hour drive but we are aloud to bring a game boy.
      Go LEEDS!!!!!!


    8. Message by: Illuminati 12/06/2004 18:57:16 GMT
      Hello my children, We are the brotherhood of Team Illuminate, fear us if you dare...


Discussion: Hellooooooooo By: 231hexbotics 12/01/2004 20:08:47 GMT
Hello is anyone there. Can some one reply im sooooooo excited about saturday. Its going to take us 4 hours to get there. Doh oh well we get a day of school. Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!
Some one reply. Over and out Ana

  1. Message by: 09/16/2004 20:54:03 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: 09/19/2004 17:09:11 GMT
      Deleted


      1. Message by: 09/19/2004 17:16:58 GMT
        Deleted


    2. Message by: 09/19/2004 17:14:24 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: 09/19/2004 20:12:42 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: 09/19/2004 20:13:29 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: 09/20/2004 13:59:19 GMT
      Deleted


    6. Message by: 09/20/2004 13:59:31 GMT
      Deleted


    7. Message by: 09/20/2004 13:59:59 GMT
      Deleted


    8. Message by: 09/20/2004 14:01:31 GMT
      Deleted


    9. Message by: 09/20/2004 14:02:27 GMT
      Deleted


    10. Message by: 09/20/2004 18:26:11 GMT
      Deleted


    11. Message by: Illuminati 11/08/2004 15:08:05 GMT
      Hi


    12. Message by: Anonymous49 12/01/2004 20:08:47 GMT
      HI Illuminati
      Hope we meet
      By Anonymous Leeder Andrew
      P.s. CTC STARS SUCK


Discussion: Hungary meets the UK By: LandStoppos163 10/19/2004 22:43:14 GMT
Dear UK teams,
Our team is from Hungary and going to be competing at the competition in Cambridge on November 20th. We are looking for teams who might be interested in a little cultural exchange and would be willing to host us and show us something of their town/school for a night. We would be happy to return an invitations with one to Hungary. We are of course, always willing to talk about robots. We are really looking forward to coming to England and hope to meet many of you.
All the best,
LandStoppos

  1. Message by: The Computer Viruses378 10/19/2004 22:43:14 GMT
    I hope you get to go england. and stay someday i'll be there but for football. I live in the us and soccer is most of my life!!!

    ps: my name is Siera Snapp ,but CEE for short

    your competitor
    CEE!!!


Discussion: Germany meetz UK By: Legoreds 10/19/2004 22:34:32 GMT
Hi! What*s up?
Good luck for the competition!

  1. Message by: The Computer Viruses378 10/19/2004 22:33:27 GMT
    thanks. you to
    ps this is my first time in legoleague and it's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    1. Message by: The Computer Viruses378 10/19/2004 22:34:04 GMT
      thanks.good luck you to
      ps this is my first time in legoleague and it's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    2. Message by: The Computer Viruses378 10/19/2004 22:34:32 GMT
      thanks.good luck to you

      ps this is my first time in legoleague and it's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Discussion: The Gate By: kithillyoungengineers172 11/25/2004 18:30:02 GMT
Has anyone noticed that the gate catch appears on different sides in the construction plan and the open the gate challenge picture. If built as in the plan the gate will open away from the steps. If build as shown on the challenge the gate will open towards the steps, which is correct?

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/04/2004 16:25:31 GMT
    The gate should open away from the steps (and away from the pets).

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: 21stcentars2357 10/13/2004 21:45:12 GMT
      idea!use J. hook to climb stairs

      usa sc


    2. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 15:32:48 GMT
      We don't know!


    3. Message by: Anonymous49 11/25/2004 18:30:02 GMT
      I will tell you what you need just get me an arm!!!!!!


Discussion: What do we do? By: HVC2004 12/13/2004 22:55:51 GMT
Fellow teams,

I am posting this discussion as we have not recieved instruction on what to do.

I would like to know if anyone else has received the info.

HVC2004

p.s. please email instructions to either myles_hvc@hotmail.com or me07970@hotmail.com. Cheers

  1. Message by: blindmice164 10/14/2004 17:14:49 GMT
    Yes we have had to wait ages for stuff too. We did not get a manual or team number. In the end I badgered Vanessa Purkiss from the contacts page until I got what I wanted. You can actually get most of the stuff from the web site if you look carefully - Team manual can be downloaded etc. Hope this helps - We are the Blind Mice and at the moment that's exactly how it feels!! zia Deeks


    1. Message by: Space Eagles585 10/14/2004 22:29:04 GMT
      Yes wehavw we'er in the us so i dont know if it's the same but it is called No limits you basicaly have to make ur robote elp disabled people.


    2. Message by: Illuminati 11/08/2004 15:09:39 GMT
      Ha Ha We know what to do!!


      1. Message by: HVC2004 11/08/2004 18:10:13 GMT
        Ha Ha We do 2? Just being helpful to anyone who wasn't sure.
        From the supreme rulers of all lego!!!


    3. Message by: robocats 11/22/2004 23:13:02 GMT
      Can we help the robot?
      Can we put the ball in robots hands?


    4. Message by: robocats 11/22/2004 23:18:50 GMT
      you can find the rules on the web site


      1. Message by: robocats 12/13/2004 22:55:51 GMT
        MAY WE STEAL SOME OF YOUR IDEAS!


    5. Message by: robocats 11/22/2004 23:26:43 GMT
      Can we put the balls in the robots hand or not


      1. Message by: robocats 11/22/2004 23:28:49 GMT
        NO


Discussion: Research By: 231hexbotics 11/08/2004 14:59:50 GMT
Hi we are not sure whether we have to build a robot for the research presentation. Can someone tellus please?

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/18/2004 20:41:53 GMT
    No. you don't have to build a robot for the research. In fact you don't have to have a robotic solution either, you need to "Create a robotic or other engineering solution to solve an issue of accessibility you found in your school or community." So a drawing or pretend robot would be ok.

    Laura


    1. Message by: Illuminati 11/08/2004 14:59:50 GMT
      I know the sort of thing we have to do but can the public place be our school?


Discussion: greetings from Arabia By: infinityhelpers 10/21/2004 11:37:44 GMT
I just wanted to say hello and good luck to all the teams.

  1. Message by: E-Knights2747 10/19/2004 01:24:37 GMT
    Hello infinityhelpers we are the E-Kinghts from Columbia South Carolina USA. Just wanted to say good luck also!


    1. Message by: infinityhelpers 10/21/2004 11:37:44 GMT
      Thank you and best wishes from SaudiArabia.


Discussion: Where does everyone come from? By: 231hexbotics 11/02/2004 19:58:59 GMT
Hi I am wondering were everyone comes from that is entering the tournament in the uk. We are from near Newcastle and have to travel to sheffield to get to the nearest tournament? where are the other tounaments taking place? Is there one closer to Newcastle then sheffield? Please Reply

  1. Message by: 10/21/2004 10:10:51 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: infinityhelpers 10/21/2004 11:59:25 GMT
      well my team comes from the KSA Kingom of Saudi Arabia. I dont know if there is any tournament near Newcastle. And we are competing all the way to sheffield because it is the nearest to Saudi Arabia and i want to tell you about myself my name is Doody and i am ten years old and i live in the middle east and we are the only people in the midlle east that are comppetting in no limits and our team is made from nine people.


    2. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 19:58:59 GMT
      We are coming from the "Werner-von-Siemens Gymnasium" Magdeburg, but our challange is in Germany...


Discussion: Can you help me By: infinityhelpers 11/02/2004 15:31:39 GMT
Do you know what this peice is in the tornament?

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/21/2004 17:00:46 GMT
    What piece?


    1. Message by: infinityhelpers 10/23/2004 13:51:37 GMT
      this piece.


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/26/2004 02:11:56 GMT
        Its the basket ball holder. Goes 1/2 on one table and 1/2 on the other.


    2. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 15:31:39 GMT
      It's the basketholder!


Discussion: which hotel do you recommend staying in? By: infinityhelpers 12/02/2004 17:30:50 GMT
Can you please tell us which hotel is closest to sheffield university? Can you please reply as soon as you read this messege.

  1. Message by: Illuminati 11/08/2004 15:10:50 GMT
    We reccommend the Ebury Hotel


    1. Message by: Anonymous49 12/02/2004 17:30:50 GMT
      Try Ebury hotel


Discussion: help help help! By: infinityhelpers 11/09/2004 19:25:57 GMT
can you score more then once in the white basket?

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/29/2004 18:33:50 GMT
    No, only one ball can be in the center basket at the end of the match.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 15:28:51 GMT
      No, in Germany, we can score 4 balls in the white basket!


    2. Message by: opms2685 11/09/2004 19:12:47 GMT
      Help ... can we score or not more than one ball in a basket per round? Thanks the new kids on the block.


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/09/2004 19:25:57 GMT
        I am unaware of any different rules for different countries. My understanding is that only one ball can be scored in the center basket. We are a US team, and these are the rules we are playing by. Unless you know differently, I would assume the rules are the same.

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


Discussion: hotel in Sheffield By: infinityhelpers 10/30/2004 15:45:01 GMT
Which hotel in Sheffield is the closest to the event?

Discussion: Research Project By: Illuminati 12/02/2004 16:12:36 GMT
Can the public place be our school? or does it have to be outside of school

  1. Message by: Padnelljuniorschool138 11/22/2004 21:06:54 GMT
    we have chosen school as our public place, if thats any help

    padnell


    1. Message by: Anonymous49 11/25/2004 18:53:39 GMT
      Send us an arm at the Topic *500 reward


    2. Message by: CTC STARS 11/29/2004 18:47:35 GMT
      Yes you can use the school as your public place we are


    3. Message by: Challoner320 12/02/2004 16:12:36 GMT
      Do you have any tips on the research project!
      Help please


Discussion: Hi By: Illuminati 11/19/2004 01:09:26 GMT
This is our first time with the lego league. Any tips?

  1. Message by: SMART 1 11/08/2004 17:24:22 GMT
    My biggest tip would be to review as many messages in the forum as possible and take a close look at the unofficial FAQ.

    Illuminati?? Kind of a dark name, no?

    - Peter


    1. Message by: MansBestFriend3299 11/19/2004 01:09:26 GMT
      my hint on the disabilities reschurts is look on "Google.com


Discussion: Are we... By: Illuminati 11/12/2004 00:08:36 GMT
Hi people. this is a general question. In the rules it says only lego pieces are allowed to be used but does that mean that we can use any lego stuff or just from the stuff that we got?

Either way, Our team kicks your...(I'll leave that 2 your imaginations!)

  1. Message by: Robotron2.0_1029 11/12/2004 00:08:36 GMT
    Hi. you are allowed to use any lego-parts, as long as they are in the original state and haven*t been modified in any way (glued, painted, lubricated, etc.). My team has used many parts that were not in the challenge-set or how that box-with-too-little-parts is called.

    Greetings from good ol* Germany

    Stefan
    Robotron 2.0

    --->Robotron Strikes back


Discussion: Are we... By: Illuminati 11/11/2004 18:17:56 GMT
Hi people. this is a general question. In the rules it says only lego pieces are allowed to be used but does that mean that we can use any lego stuff or just from the stuff that we got?

Either way, Our team kicks your...(I'll leave that 2 your imaginations!)

  1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 11/11/2004 18:17:56 GMT
    If you read the rules, you can use any unaltered lego piece. The are a few restictions on some of the bonical pieces. There is also a limit on electrical parts. 1 rcx, 3 motors, 1 rotation sensor, 2 touch sensors, and 2 light sensors. Those are the only parts you are limited to, and that would be total for all attachments brought to the table.


Discussion: Where is the Liverpool tournament??` By: CGGS293 12/02/2004 17:28:37 GMT
He,

Does anyone know where the Liver pool Regional Tournament on 30/11/04 is?

Would be grately appreciated if you could let me know.

Thanks

  1. Message by: CGGS293 11/30/2004 15:30:07 GMT
    It is in Liverpool On 30/11/04


    1. Message by: Anonymous49 12/02/2004 17:28:37 GMT
      Don't ask me.
      Try looking on teams and tornamants


Discussion: Rules in the home base By: Illuminati 11/24/2004 16:33:42 GMT
Does the robot have to be COMPLETELY in the home base if we want to touch it? Do we lose points if the robot has returned to the home base and we touch it when only part of it is in the home base?

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/24/2004 16:33:42 GMT
    The rules say
    BONUS LOSS: If the robot is touched while completely out of Base, the referee removes one Bonus Object from the field if there are any available at that time. If the robot is touched while crossing in or out of Base, there is no Bonus Loss.

    So, no, you can get it as it comes back to base.
    Laura


Discussion: *500 reward By: Anonymous49 11/30/2004 17:05:41 GMT
If you send us details on how to make an arm I will give you *500. Also if you are from Leeds we'll met you there.
From your new friends Anonymous(Andrew Stevens)
Ps. Joseph Stevens is the captain.

  1. Message by: CTC STARS 11/29/2004 19:03:47 GMT
    Yes how about you make it yourself you lazy people. Or ask your mothers to help you.


    1. Message by: Anonymous49 11/30/2004 17:05:41 GMT
      DEAR CTC STARS
      yOU ARE A SET OF B******S


Discussion: Has anybody got any information about the Telford Competition By: Challoner320 12/02/2004 17:30:11 GMT
Hey,

We are the Challoner 320 team. We where wondering whether anyone had any information about the telford competition?

Help!!

  1. Message by: Anonymous49 12/02/2004 17:30:11 GMT
    Look on Teams and tournaments


Discussion: How much should we bring? By: infinityhelpers 11/29/2004 19:05:47 GMT
Good day all!!..
Our clock is ticking.. we have few more days before we participate in Sheffield competition!.. all of use are so excited!..
There are 10 kids comming along the competitin.. and we were wonering how much pocket money should we bring along?.. accomodations and transportations will be paid for.. but what about food and other stuff..
Your help is so much appreciated.
Thanks,
Toooooooooooooo infinity and beyond!
Team Infinity Helpers

  1. Message by: CTC STARS 11/29/2004 19:05:47 GMT
    I'm bringing *30 pound that should be enough I live near sheffield and are going to the competition there isn't much to buy in Sheffield.


Discussion: Black Food Pieces In The Base By: Challoner320 12/01/2004 20:04:03 GMT
We are the Challoner 320 group.

We are a bit confused about the rules of the base. We were wondering if you could pick up the food pieces in the base with your hands and put them in the bowl and then take the bowl into the field. Or is it necessary that the robot has to pick the black food pieces lying in the base and put it in the bowl??

  1. Message by: CTC STARS 11/29/2004 18:44:58 GMT
    I think that you can use your hands
    andrew ctc stars
    p.s im not sure see what everyone else thinks


    1. Message by: Anonymous49 12/01/2004 20:04:03 GMT
      We are through to the internationals and the black food is for the cat and dogs. Don't stick in bowl
      Attatch to robot with hand. take them to the cat & dog
      P.s. Don't kill them like we did


Discussion: The Robot By: 231hexbotics 11/29/2004 19:06:59 GMT
Has everyone finished the robot and presentation yet?

  1. Message by: CTC STARS 11/29/2004 19:06:59 GMT
    Yes we have........... Not were having quite a bit of trouble but it should be finished soon. Hopefully.


Discussion: Anyone else having trouble By: CTC STARS 11/30/2004 17:09:06 GMT
Are any other teams having trouble with this years build. We are a bit behind are you? You don't have to leave your name if you don't want.

  1. Message by: Equalities130 11/30/2004 12:38:46 GMT
    dont give up CTC even if you just go along to the regional competition you should be able to get lots of ideas on how some other teams are managing to get as far as they do in the same time frame. At our school we have had to take every Wednesday after school till 6 and give up one of our half term days - we have a very suportive staff who make time on the time table for the last 2 weeks before the competition and that has helped a lot. The CD disc and the stairs, and moving the chairs seem to be good tasks to get you going.

    Good Luck !


    1. Message by: Anonymous49 11/30/2004 17:09:06 GMT
      DO YOU KNOW HOW TO MAKE AN ARM?
      P.S. DON'T GO ON *500 REWARD


Discussion: Leeds winners By: Anonymous49 12/02/2004 17:23:26 GMT
Anonymous Are The Winners of Leeds
Na na na na na

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/01/2004 20:00:47 GMT
    Well that's a great show of GP. Maybe they will come and take the award away with a comment like that :-(

    Laura


    1. Message by: Anonymous49 12/02/2004 17:23:26 GMT
      Only jokin'
      God can't you take joke.
      P.s all who read tell us your names and maby we can be friends


Discussion: CTC STARS MUST READ By: Anonymous49 12/02/2004 17:16:26 GMT
If you are one of the team mates of this team, read *500 reward again.
P.s. I (Andrew) Am captain NOT Joseph

  1. Message by: Anonymous49 12/02/2004 17:16:26 GMT
    Only jokin


Discussion: Good Luck By: 231hexbotics 12/02/2004 17:19:30 GMT
Hi We are worried its our first year with FLL and our competition is on Saturday> hOw has everybody else done

  1. Message by: Anonymous49 12/02/2004 17:19:30 GMT
    We from anoymous have past
    If you use casters that should help
    Good look


Discussion: UK WINNERS MUST READ By: Anonymous49 12/15/2004 16:43:48 GMT
WE ARE ANONYMOUS. WE WON THE LEEDS COMPETITION AND ARE OF TO ESSEX. PLEASE WRITE WAY THE GATE OPEN IN YOUR COMP
ARES OPENED TOWARDS THE CAT AND DOG
ANDREW (CAPTAIN)
P.S. CONGRATULATIONS

  1. Message by: CTC STARS 12/15/2004 16:43:48 GMT
    it epens away from the cat and dog


Discussion: to Ilumanti By: Anonymous49 12/07/2004 20:18:22 GMT
Your cool

  1. Message by: Illuminati 12/07/2004 20:18:22 GMT
    thanx


Discussion: Winners By: 231hexbotics 02/13/2005 23:33:07 GMT
Hi who are the winners that are going through to th efinal

  1. Message by: RobotRulers776 02/13/2005 23:33:07 GMT
    If you mean the Internationals in Atlanta Georgia, we the
    L3 Robot Rulers will be there.

    L3 Robot Rulers


Discussion: Winner By: 231hexbotics 12/04/2004 19:47:27 GMT
Hello
Who won and is through to the final. We WON so see you there

Discussion: unknown brick error By: 231hexbotics 12/08/2004 01:08:09 GMT
does anyone know what a unknown brick error is because we have had to write our programs over and over again and each time it would not download. even though the national finals is over we still want to know because it would help us in the future.ppppppllllllllzzzzzz! ! ! ! ! !

Discussion: Its all over By: 231hexbotics 12/08/2004 18:25:28 GMT
Hi everyone
We all had a great day yesterday apart from the fact we lost. We came 8th overall including presentation ect... We are going to set up a team next year. I hope everyone else is to.
See You Next Year (Perhaps)

Discussion: HELP!-HELP!-HELP!-HELP! By: RobotRulers776 01/03/2005 22:53:31 GMT
We are a new team and need some help!!!!

We have a competion in about three weeks and are still having problems with consistancey. How do your robots get to be so accurate? If you have an answer please email us at
mlieber@lockport.wnyric.org

We would really appreciate some help and your kindness will not be over looked.

L3 Robot Rulers

  1. Message by: SMART 1 01/03/2005 22:53:31 GMT
    Hey 776,

    There are a lot of things that go into consistency. If you tell us where you see the inconsistency the most that may help those on the forum support you.

    Now here is my little "secret" for using the forum...

    Try searching for keywords related to your problem using the search button! If you're lucky you'll find messages going back a few years. They shut the forum down in the spring, but they don't clear out all the old messages so all the old message threads are there if you can just use the right search word. For example, try searching for the word "straight". You'll find message threads going all the way back to 2001.

    Good luck to you.

    - Peter


Discussion: Registration By: 231hexbotics 05/07/2005 10:44:35 GMT
Hi

Its now 7th of May..i was just wondering is anyone had registered becase it says registration is shut. Does anyone know why htis is happening..registration was meant to be open 2ND May.

Thnx
Hexbotics


Folder: - UNITED STATES - [for American members] 09/10/2004 19:40:05 GMT



Folder: Equipment Questions 02/09/2005 00:57:41 GMT
Please post all discussions and questions about equipment in this folder.


Folder: Batteries 01/03/2005 01:28:45 GMT
Put questions about batteries here

Discussion: Rechargeable batteries By: icebergs152 01/03/2005 01:28:45 GMT
In the past we have used "rechargeable alkaline" 1.5V batteries. We charge them every few runs so they slways have the same voltage. But they are getting old and don't hold a charge anymore. I haven't been able to find anything except NiMH 1.2V batteries, which don't work at all. Surely there is a cheaper (and greener) alternative than buying lots of single use alkaline batteries? Anyone have ideas on this topic?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/20/2004 02:59:56 GMT
    Why do NiMH batteries not work "at all" for you? They work well enough for me and a friend of mine. Perhaps some details about your issue?

    -Skye


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/20/2004 15:24:21 GMT
      The 1.2 Nigh don't work for me either. The RCX reports dead batteries and it goes real slow.

      You can still get the 1.5 NiCads at the hobby shop.

      Laura


      1. Message by: AZK3535 10/25/2004 18:56:11 GMT
        use 8 of them the rcx accept 9.6 volts


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/25/2004 19:24:19 GMT
          Do you have suggestions on how to cram 8 cells into the RCX with space for 6 AA cells?

          -Skye


      2. Message by: Tweeters177 11/21/2004 13:26:37 GMT
        I'm confused - Last year, we started using 2 sets of 6 batteries rotated through 2 rechargers (note that the chargers take up to 8, but have a feature for charging fewer). We are using Radio Shack Nickel metal Hydride 1.2V AA. They read full on the RCX and they do make the robot run-sort of. They just don't seem to have the pep that the alkaline disposables have. Oh, Maybe it IS the voltage??? Are there better rechargeables out there?
        sign me running slow in Frisco


      3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/21/2004 14:07:21 GMT
        Tweeters177,

        The lower voltage of the rechargeable batteries (we get about 7.7 to 8.1 volts across a total of 6 NiMH batteries) does result in "less pep" for a robot than one with disposable alkaline batteries (typically about 8.7 to 9.3 volts for a set of 6). Whether or not this is a good thing depends on the robot and how it works. Less available power can reduce the ability of the robot to do things like climb stairs, but can also be a benefit at having the robot make more precise movements. (Slower movements tend to be more controllable.) This is a typical engineering trade, without a single "right answer" but with some benefits and disadvantages to either solution.

        The team I coach has used NiMH batteries almost exclusively for the past three years. In that time we have become quite familiar with the characteristics of the NiMH batteries. Yes, they have less power, but they are less expensive in the long run. We have also found them to have quite predictable decay characteristics. We have used various brands (Radio Shack, Sanyo, and Jetcell (the latter two are from
        RipVan100.com) without really much of a difference. Our favorites have been the green Sanyo industrial cells. The higher capacity batteries simply last longer between charges.

        In sum, NiMH and alkaline batteries give different characteristics. The more limited power of the NiMH batteries may limit some of the tasks that the robot can do (due to less power) but don't prevent building a high-scoring robot. Indeed, the Mindstorms Mayhem team has had a max-score capable robot each of the past two years with NiMH batteries. (They're still working on it this year, though!)

        Best Wishes,

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

        PS: If you plan to use NiMH batteries, you will need to have a voltmeter so that you can determine if you develop any bad cells - over time they do eventually go bad and will be unable to hold a charge. This happens on a battery-by-battery basis, though, so a voltmeter is an essential tool for locating the failed battery.


        1. Message by: Tweeters177 01/03/2005 01:28:45 GMT
          Thanks Ken and Yikes! As we say..Batteries, the final frontier. Batteries are our nightmare! The team changed to alkaline disposables two weeks before our regional in an effort to squeak out a little speed. At the regional a brand new set of batteries almost lost them a spot in state as portions of their programs dependent upon time became unpredictable and un-adjust-for-able.

          The word on the street is that a voltmeter alone will not help determine what the batteries will do under load. We will keep one in our bot first aid kit as advised.

          We located a nice graph made by maritime and aviation orgs. It compares the performance of rechargeables.The performance of the NiMH rechargeables is low but rock solid as compared to the steady decay of the alkalines.In other words, I see what you said. The team is looking at this and making that engineering decision and looking at other ways of speeding up Eileen C.as we prepare for state.
          -Karen
          Coach, Tweeters177


    2. Message by: icebergs152 10/21/2004 16:34:54 GMT
      1.2V isn't enough to run the robot at full speed, even if it does work OK. We experienced problems similar to those described above. In the past, when we used 1.5V Nice or "re chargeable alkaline" batteries, we actually had a little more than 1.5V when batteries were freshly charged. Yea!

      We typically have changed the batteries once during the day at competitions. We used re chargeable batteries for the cost saving and also for consistency. Although you probably could get equal performance from alkaline batteries. Another coach's son did a project on batteries; I'll ask him if he made graphs of voltage s. time. The ideal is a flat curve. The Nice batteries had a relatively flat curve, then a rapid drop-off. I don't know about Nigh.

      Dale Murrish
      Imperial ICEBERGS coach, team 152


    3. Message by: icebergs152 10/21/2004 16:44:47 GMT
      Thanks, Laura. I'll call some hobby shops. I haven't seen NiCd batteries in regular stores for several years. I don't understand why the rechargeable ones aren't more popular, since they're certainly cheaper over the long haul.

      Cadmium is a hazardous material, so I'm not surprised it's being phased out. We're being asked to remove it from our engine bearings, where trace amounts help the bearing absorb debris. I'm not sure what "rechargeable alkaline" means, maybe it's NiCd.

      Regards,
      Dale Murrish


    4. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 10/25/2004 21:02:07 GMT
      NiMH batteries can work just fine in a Lego RCX and FLL robot. If you have NiMH batteries that "do not work at all" I would suggest checking to see that each of the batteries is charged. One fully discharged (dead) battery in a batch of 6 can be enough to make the RCX not work at all.

      NiMH (and other rechargeable batteries) sometimes "go bad" over time. I would suggest using a voltmeter (preferably one with a "battery check" setting) to check the voltage on your batteries. The NiMH batteries that our team has used over the past two years typically each show ~1.15 volts (or less) when fully discharged, and ~1.35 volts each when fully charged. By being able to check the voltage on each battery individually, you can find if you have a single bad battery in your batch of six.

      Yes, NiMH batteries will result in a max voltage of between 7.2V to 8.1V for 6 batteries in an RCX. This will give significantly less power than when using 6 Alkaline batteries (~8.4V to 9.6V). However, less power may not be a disadvantage. It may even make some things easier -- more power isn't always a good thing...

      For what it's worth, I can testify to the fact that NiMH batteries can be made to work. The team I coach was able to achieve maximum scores in 2002 CitySights and 2003 Mission Mars with NiMH batteries in their robot during competitions. (This year, however, may be a very different story... :-) )

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    5. Message by: ilsgreen2292 11/22/2004 06:24:15 GMT
      A fast Google search might indicate that Rayovac rechargeable alkalines might still be available, but this alternate supply might say the Rayovac discontinued rechargable alkalines. Other sources for rechargable alkalines may be here and here.

      I'll have to keep mail order as an option to NiMH when my current batch of rechargable alkalines die. I've been happy with my rechargable alkalines for the 5 years I have coached. I had to replace all of mine last year after three years, as the original ones I had stopped holding a charge. I should be good through most of next year with the current set.

      - Mark


    6. Message by: MindStormTroopers 11/27/2004 19:25:35 GMT
      Now I'm confused. I thought we were only allowed AA Alkalines at the Match. Now your saying we can have Ni-Mhs, and Ni-Cds? Or are you talking only for practice?


      1. Message by: See-More 1298 11/27/2004 20:00:36 GMT
        The rules only state that you are limited to "6 AA batteries." It never specifies what kind of batteries.

        We have used Ni-Cds for the past two years and much prefer them to the throw-away kind!

        Marie
        whose teams like to build battery-depleting, heavy, slow treaded bots


    7. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/30/2004 05:00:07 GMT
      One team I know had tried to used rechargebles last year (I don't remember which brand) but they were too short to use in their RCX.

      We compared them side by side with a traditional AA battery and it was a bit shorter.

      Anyone run into that problem in trying to use rechargebles?

      Our feel was the rechargebles were fine for general practice but once it got to the timed runs where you were trying to get exact times, it was better to go with traditional AA batteries, and not brand new ones either. The ones that gave the best performance had been used for a bit.


      1. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 12/03/2004 22:13:41 GMT
        That's interesting. We just switched to rechargable NiMH batteries this year (1.25V, 1800-2000 mAH (I think that's the right units)). They work really nice. Seem to have more consistent power delivery. With traditional AA batteries the robot would be "super charged" the first couple of hours. The rechargables don't seem to do that.

        Courtney


    8. Message by: RoboQuest 12/11/2004 03:34:40 GMT
      Dear Mr. Murrish,

      We use regular batteries until the voltage is 8 volts. Then we take them out and my father puts them away so Andrew (who is a team member) and I can use them for our game boys and other toys. We buy Duracell batteries at Costco and they are 36 cents each. We tried to use the NiMH batteries last year and they also didn't work for us either.

      Stephen Wallis - team member
      Team: 115 RoboQuest


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/11/2004 03:55:01 GMT
        Stephen,
        What type of robot are you using? Does it use treads or wheels? Would you consider it light or heavy?

        -Skye


        1. Message by: RoboQuest 12/14/2004 03:25:41 GMT
          We use treads that have three wheels in between them. Our robot weighs 684 grams and the manipulators weigh 9-90 grams.

          Stephen Wallis age 9
          Team:115 Team member


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/14/2004 03:37:48 GMT
            That is a medium to heavy robot using a very high friction drive system. I would not assume the batteries to last very long. I could even see the NiMH batteries not powering the robot. A motor needs voltage to produce torque. Lower voltage means lower torque means less ability to get your robot moving.

            -Skye


Discussion: Program loss By: ManateeMindstormers4203 11/16/2004 19:40:10 GMT
Whenever we change our robot's batteries, we lose a few programs, even though we change them one at a time, in less than a minute each. what is going on?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/16/2004 19:37:54 GMT
    Shoot for just a few seconds without a battery.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/16/2004 19:40:10 GMT
      We change 1 battery at a time. And make sure the RCX is off before you start.
      Laura


Discussion: battery running low By: ManateeMindstormers4203 12/10/2004 18:53:20 GMT
Does anyone know why our batteries keep running out so fast? I mean, they run out after about 2 hours ow running the programs. Does anyone else's do that? Or do you know why ours do that? Because we can't do any programs right beause we dont know how high the power lvl has to be to actually do the programs right

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/18/2004 21:23:20 GMT
    Battery milage will vary. The quickest way to kill batteries is to have a heavy robot that uses treads. Two hours in this case would be pretty good. Run a wheeled light robot and that same set will last many more hours.

    My first year, we started purchasing batteries by the case because we were eating them so fast. Guess what? We had a heavy tracked robot!

    I do believe that there is a section on batteries in the Coach's Handbook at http://www.fll-freak.com

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/18/2004 22:22:40 GMT
      Don't know about Robolab, but in RIS you can check the battery level by going to the settings area. We have found that there is a point where the performance reliability does start to drop off, so when the robot starts to act wierd the first thing we do is check the power level and change the batteries if it's below the threshhold that the kids established. I would check the level when you first install a set, and then keep track of where you see the performance start to decline to decide what your threshhold is. Then, I take the half used batteries home for my 6 year old to put in the flashlight she's always forgetting to turn off!

      Monica


      1. Message by: RoboQuest 12/10/2004 18:53:20 GMT
        In Robolab it is possible to check the battery level. Open inventor 4, click on the project button at the top of the screen in the Robolab program, and then click on the interrogate RCX button on the drop down menu. When the new screen comes up, the RCX battery level is displayed on the left side of the screen. You need to have your RCX on and in front of the serial tower for this to work.

        Andrew Wallis,
        RoboQuest Team Member



Folder: Equipment Needed 12/02/2004 15:52:43 GMT
Anyone have a used mindstorms kit and brick. We have a group of ten kids which is making it difficult to coordinate as a first time coach with just one kit. Must be reasonably priced or willing to "loan." Located in Oregon.

Discussion: LEGO Mindstorm Kits Promotion at Amazon.com By: technologytigers872 10/16/2004 03:10:17 GMT
Amazon.com has a promotion going on right now, applies to Mindstorms RIS 2.0 kits. You can buy three for the price of two, which makes each Mindstorms kit $133.33 before shipping. Expires October 2, though.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005NLID/qid=1096651614/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-4799100-8814538?v=glance&s=toys&n=507846

Andy Jahn
Technology Tigers

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/01/2004 23:36:30 GMT
    Anyone want to go in on this? I don't need 3, but could 1.
    Amazon will ship to multiple addresses with one order. The thing expires tomorrow if anyone is interested

    Laura
    Central Florida


    1. Message by: DCHS3136 10/05/2004 08:00:17 GMT
      Thanks...I found out about it about 10pm the eve of the 2nd and attempted to order...but the "system" was busy, it wouldn't go through, etc...then magically it went through AFTER midnight...but then the deal was no longer offered...I've emailed them but haven't heard back. Thankyou!


    2. Message by: DCHS3136 10/05/2004 08:00:57 GMT
      Laura,

      Did you do it? I could use one. I couldn't order...see my mesaage below


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/05/2004 16:24:41 GMT
        No. I didn't want 3 kits. Next time. If they offer to sell you 3 at the reduced price, I will buy one from you.


    3. Message by: DCHS3136 10/07/2004 21:13:45 GMT
      They sold me three -- after the fact. I had emailed them at 1 am in the morning and they honored it! Do you need one. I would have to charge actual postage.


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/08/2004 14:23:29 GMT
        Yes, Please.
        Laura


        1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/16/2004 03:10:17 GMT
          Thanks, I got it today :-)


Discussion: Need a Rotation Sensor By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 11/01/2004 21:16:30 GMT
Hi,
Is there is anyone out there who would be willing to sell me a rotation sensor and ship in out next day? Thanks, Carla :)

Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Coach

Discussion: need field setup kit and mat By: robo_wolves3850 12/02/2004 15:52:43 GMT
Well, there was a huge mixup with my team this year and it turns out we don't have a field setup kit or a mat :(

And we can't get any more. FLL is out.

Is there anyone with an extra or someone in the Raleigh NC area that could share??

Thanks a ton.
-William


Folder: LEGO Questions (not programming) 02/28/2005 23:32:07 GMT



Folder: Basket Building 09/30/2004 23:04:31 GMT
After quite a bit of time I finally was able to get the basket built. It definitely is complex. I would not suggest you do this piece first.

Can anyone advise what piece they use to attach the opposite side of the the basket to the station. On the last page they show one side with long beams to the station, but the opposite side does not have them. If you do not put a connector of some sort the basket falls off the station. Several connectors I have tried in fact make the basket lopsided.

Discussion: basket building By: Wildcats2263 09/30/2004 23:04:31 GMT
After reviewing the instructions, we built the basket the same on both sides, even though the overall picture seems to indicate that only one side has the long pieces. This really is an optical illusion- your view of the long piece in the back is blocked by the other pieces. The instructions for that area say to build 2 identical pieces (the 2X in the corner in step 10) You need to add a doubler to the table in the area the basket goes to simulate 2 tables back to back. After doing these 2 things and dual locking the basket holder to the edge of the table your basket should be secure.
Monica

  1. Message by: Hawks2190 09/30/2004 23:04:31 GMT
    Please disregard this question. After assembling all the other pieces of equipment I realized the basket is symmetrical, so the question above is a mute point. Sorry, I am new this year.


Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: fll-freak1328 09/20/2004 17:09:06 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
year's rule changes.

The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the FAQ at:

http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

Skye Sweeney
Skye@fll-freak.com

  1. Message by: supernerds2273 09/20/2004 17:03:31 GMT
    Can we use hydrolics


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/20/2004 17:09:06 GMT
      If you read the FAQ, you will find your answer! Try the
      section on allowable parts.

      -Skye


Discussion: Wheel Slippage By: jemath857 11/08/2004 16:55:59 GMT
We have narrowed down our "hooking" problem and think that it is due to slippage in the wheel. Some of the tires are nice and tight around the wheel but the others slips easily around the wheel. As best we can tell, we are getting much better traction on one side than the other.

Our kits are kindly lent to teams by the robotics committee at school but they are getting well worn. Does anyone have any suggestions? Or do I just need to buy new tires (I imagine, I'll have to buy wheels too) ? If this kind of wear is normal, what kind of lifespan should we expect from tires (that seems to be the source of the problem).

Thanks,

Tracey.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/19/2004 21:50:09 GMT
    I have a friend that buy tires by the 'gross' since his
    team's robot chews them up real fast. Yes, wear and tear
    is to be expected. You can buy some spares from Pitsco,
    and some from LEGO, and just about any piece from
    www.bricklink.com

    -Skye


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/19/2004 23:39:33 GMT
      We had the same problem our first year. We didn't want to change the wheels and had no time to order more. Our solution was to put the Lego rubber bands around the wheels before putting the tires on. You can't use glue, but this really works well.

      Laura


    2. Message by: jemath857 09/20/2004 03:17:18 GMT
      A short term and long term solution! Gotta love FLL Forum. Thanks,

      Tracey.


    3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 09/20/2004 17:19:41 GMT
      Hey! I resemble that remark!

      Yes, the Mindstorms Mayhem team's robot was found to eat up tires when line following certain arcs of a line in 2002 on CitySights (the problem they had was that the tires actually "shred" from the rapid forward/back changes.) They never actually came up with a solution for the problem, but some tires seem to last longer than others. Their solution had been to use "old tires" for practice, and switch to "new tires" shortly before the tournament.

      The team didn't have the problem in 2003 with Mission Mars, as they only followed straight lines. They also now have a kindler and gentler line follower. Who knows if it will be a problem this year?

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    4. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 09/20/2004 17:23:06 GMT
      I have bought many peices off of bricklink, it ia a good source to buy small amounts of parts, and hard to get parts too..


    5. Message by: 11/08/2004 16:51:51 GMT
      Deleted


    6. Message by: 11/08/2004 16:55:59 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: pneumatic system switch By: Boybotics Energizers 10/03/2004 07:28:46 GMT
this year my team and I want to use pneumatic but we don't know how to make a switch with the third motor. Any ideas?

  1. Message by: LaSalle278.280 09/23/2004 20:51:55 GMT
    Use a motor to move a pneumatic switch.

    Dave Kolberg


    1. Message by: 09/23/2004 21:05:17 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: Robomonkeys345 09/26/2004 14:20:38 GMT
      Our team built a really great 3-fingered pneumatic claw with 2 storage tanks and a manual pump. We used a motor to flip a pneumatic switch that opened and closed the claw. It would be better if you can save the motor for other things and use your environment to trigger the claw, but the team could not figure out a way to make this happen. Our overall pneumatic experience was great. Kids learned a lot and the closing power of the claw was lot stronger then any motor assembly could have been. This was key to closing the habitation module.


      1. Message by: opms2685 09/27/2004 21:12:49 GMT
        We are a new team at Fll. On the Questions and Answers page for 9-21-04 states that we cannot use pneumatics. Did we miss something?


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/27/2004 21:30:36 GMT
          I think if you re-read the Q&A you will see that pneumatics
          are allowed!

          i A: All parts NOT restricted under the MATERIALS rule are legal in any quantity, no matter what the source. This even includes pneumatics, and wind-ups.

          The only part restrictions is a list of electrical parts and the fact that the parts must be LEGO and in factory original condition. As long as your pneumatics fit that description you are just fine.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: 09/30/2004 02:16:44 GMT
            Deleted


        2. Message by: SharonB 09/27/2004 21:31:50 GMT
          Yes, you mis-read. It says everything that is not on the restricted list is legal. And such legal things include pnuematics and windups.


    3. Message by: 10/01/2004 00:50:38 GMT
      Deleted


    4. Message by: Team454 10/01/2004 03:52:14 GMT
      That language has changed. Now, only the three motors and specified sensors are allowed. I read that as NO windup motors and NO environment triggered pneumatic switches.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/01/2004 04:07:06 GMT
        I do not believe that is not how it should be read. The materials rule says that "ELECTRICAL parts are limited in ...". Some of the most impressive devices I have seen at tournaments have been enviromentaly triggered devices.

        In fact, the Q&A at this location http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14200
        explicitly makes them legal.

        -Skye


    5. Message by: Team454 10/03/2004 07:28:46 GMT
      Sorry about that. You're right. I confused the two answers. I thought the earlier "Pneumatics are OK" answer had been edited into the "Only these motors are OK" answer. Now that you pointed it out, I see that the Pneumatics answer is still there. Thanks


Discussion: How to start with pneumatics? By: RoboTechnos_2022 10/01/2004 03:10:16 GMT
Could someone recommend what to buy to get started with pneumatics? The lego store has one pneumatic set that is only available outside the US.

Thanks,
Terri

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/01/2004 03:10:16 GMT
    Some (expensive) sets have pneumatics built in. My son has a crane whose crane arm raises by pneumatics. If you just want to buy parts from bricklink (or other places) you will need a large or small pump, air tank, hose, valve, and a large or small cylinder.

    See:
    http://shop.lego.com/product.asp?p=8436&cn=48&d=11&t=5
    http://shop.lego.com/product.asp?p=8439&cn=48&d=11&t=5
    http://www.legoeducationstore.com/catalog.cfm?dest=dir&linkid=216&linkon=subsection

    -Skye


Discussion: How do Pmnumatics work By: biobots876405 10/14/2004 23:29:54 GMT
Can anyone tell me how Pmnumatics work?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/14/2004 23:29:26 GMT
    Try
    http://www.howstuffworks.com
    -Skye


Discussion: wheels wont turn By: ManateeMindstormers4203 10/24/2004 00:31:59 GMT
our big wheels will not turn. We need desperate help. We try to make our robot turn with big wheels but it will not work. Does anyone have any suggestions for making the wheels turn?

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/22/2004 21:26:50 GMT
    Do the motors turn if you take the wheels off?

    If they do, check that:
    1. any gears you have attached are meshing
    2. no pieces are keeping the wheels from turning

    If they do not, check that:
    1. replace the wires and retest
    2. the wires are connected to the proper terminals on the RCX
    3. the program calls for the terminals the wires are connected to
    4. Replace the motors and retest

    If this doesn't help, post again with more details. Good luck.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/22/2004 21:27:49 GMT
      Have you read the book "Building LEGO Mindstorms Robots for FIRST LEGO League"?
      http://www.mission-creek.com/robotics/Docs/BLRforFLLV1.0.pdf

      Normaly I would suggest you visit the HightechKids website, but the links seem to be broken, and the site now requires a user account. How sad.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: See-More 1298 10/22/2004 21:49:33 GMT
      Do you have treads on four big wheels? The high level of friction will cause your wheels to "stick" and not turn. If you take the treads off, does it turn?
      Also check your axle pairings.
      Can you turn it by hand?

      Marie


    3. Message by: ManateeMindstormers4203 10/24/2004 00:11:39 GMT
      i dont mean that the wheels wont turn, i mean that since they are too big, they can not turn right. That is what i mean.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/24/2004 00:31:59 GMT
        Perhaps you should try some smaller wheels?

        -Skye


Discussion: mat setup By: Paisley 02/28/2005 23:32:07 GMT
Can we leave some of the obstacles off of the mat? Such as the gate or the fence.

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 02/28/2005 23:32:07 GMT
    No. You can not hand move anything on the mat. Your robot can move things that are not dura-locked onto the mat.

    Laura



Folder: Motors 11/22/2004 06:01:19 GMT


Discussion: Unmatched Motors By: Bot Docs 81 10/13/2004 19:08:10 GMT
Why do all Lego motors not turn at the same rate of speed?
Since navigation is so important it makes it very difficult for the teams to program a robot that will drive straight. One of our team members wrote a program to check the compatability of our 10 motors and the difference in the speed of each motor is unbelievable. Yes, I know you can change the power of each motor via programming but as your batteries' voltage decreases the power level required to keep the robot driving straight changes. Why would Lego penalize the teams in such a way?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/11/2004 16:56:50 GMT
    LEGO certainly did not do it on purpose! It is very difficult to make two identical motors. Even the smallest variations in construction will change the behaviour of the motor. And even if you purchased two identical motors, by the time they get played with they will no longer be the same. It is my firm belief that just pushing a robot around by hand will change the performance of a motor.

    Since all teams have the same problem, it is part of the game. You need to learn ways to correct or minimize the problem. Find and read the FANTASTIC web document "Building LEGO Mindstorms robots for FIRST LEGO League". Search the web for other methods, and of course, brainstorm with the team.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Country Breakfast 10/13/2004 17:57:05 GMT
      How can we find help as we try to use the rotation motor? Should we look in a particular book?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/13/2004 18:02:21 GMT
        Rotation motor or sensor?

        Any book book on Mindstorms will have info on building with motors. Most will even talk about the rotation sensor. Some will do so using RIS, none will talk about RoboLab, and most will talk about the illegal NQC language.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/13/2004 19:07:52 GMT
        If you mean rotation sensors and you are using Robolab, this document has good samples. ROBOLAB Reference Guide 1.2

        http://www.ceeo.tufts.edu/robolabatceeo/Resources/documentation/default.asp

        Laura


Discussion: motors and how many! By: Robodogs 1 10/13/2004 16:45:03 GMT
I have questions!

1.How many motors are we allowed to use?
2.Can we put extra motors on our attachments?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/11/2004 22:35:28 GMT
    Read the rules here for a list of materials allowed.
    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14150

    If you are talking electric motors, the answer is three. If you are talking other types of motors, there is no limit.

    There are no restrictions as to where you place the motors other than you must follow the rules at the above page.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Saints Robotics 10/13/2004 16:35:45 GMT
      So if we have 4 attachments, each with it's own motor, only one attachment attached to the robot per mission ( sent out from base)are we OK or can we only bring 3 motors to the table at a time?


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/13/2004 16:41:39 GMT
        To refresh:

        MATERIALS: The robot, its attachments, accessories, and all other Strategic Objects brought to a Match must be made entirely of LEGO elements in original factory condition.Electrical parts are limited in type and quantity to 1 RCX, 1 Rotation Sensor, 2 Touch Sensors, 2 Light Sensors, 3 Motors, 1 Lamp, and 6 AA batteries.Stickers, paint, tape, glue, oil, etc. are not allowed, except marker can be used for owner identification in hidden areas only.

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


      2. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/13/2004 16:45:03 GMT
        That would be a big no. Only 3 motors total can be used during the 2+1/2 minute match.
        -Skye


Discussion: Motors - No Brakes By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 11/01/2004 08:57:29 GMT
Hi,
Well I belive that the kids have broken the motors that came with the kit, they no longer have brakes. Has anyone else had this problem?

Also since I need to replace these motors where do I get them and which model are they exactly? And can someone also tell me where to get a replacement rotation sensor? Thanks a Ton! Carla :)

Blue Cheesy Flamingos 952
Coach

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/31/2004 02:05:55 GMT
    "No longer have brakes"? If the motor can go forwards and backwards then they must be able to brake. If they do not, it is not the motors, but the RCX that would be bad. Braking is simply putting a short accross the motor to have the electricity it generates when moving power the motor in reserve.

    PITSCO sells the 9 volt gear reduction motors. Try here:

    http://www.legoeducationstore.com/catalog.cfm?dest=itempg&itemid=13&secid=77&linkon=subsection&linkid=217

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Wildcats2263 10/31/2004 16:31:29 GMT
      You can also get a replacement rotation sensor at Pitsco, it's called an angle sensor, part number 979891. They were on backorder when I tried. Try Bricklink, but they were more expensive last time I checked. http://www.bricklink.com/index.asp
      Monica


    2. Message by: AtkinsonNH210 11/01/2004 08:57:29 GMT
      Are you aware of the "float" modifier on the Motor Stop command? In RIS, it's a checkbox on the command properties dialog. (There is also a similar property in Robolab). With this checked, power to the motors will be cut off, but they will continue to rotate via inertia until friction finally takes over. Unchecking this box will cause the motors to come to a complete and immediate stop (using the shorting method that Skye mentions above).

      - Scott


Discussion: Effect of Cold Temperatures on 9v Motors? By: blockium1674 11/22/2004 06:01:19 GMT
Our rookie team recently competed in a tournament and had the following experience we could use help understanding.

We finished practicing at 8 or 9 pm the night before tournament and loaded all our gear, including the robot, into my car since we had to leave early the next morning. As we loaded the car it was snowing and continued to snow through the night. The
next morning when we arrived at the tournament and went to practice, the robot would barely move. The kids kept saying the two 9-volt motors appeared to be seized. The robot barely turned through its moves the first match and by the 3rd match it seemed a little better, but still moving stiffly and having trouble making sharp turns. (Elapsed time about 4 hours from when we unpacked the car). At that point, we abandoned the malfunctioning robot and went with another we had as a backup. The robot sat in our team's pit until we packed it up and brought it home later that evening.

As I drove home, again in the snow, it occurred to me that perhaps the cold temperatures adversely affected the motors when they were in the car overnight and they needed several hours to warm up to work well. Anyway, we re-tried all the maneuvers that failed in the morning and they again worked just fine. Is there anyone who can confirm this hypothesis?

Could someone generally explain what effect having the 9-v motors outside overnight in the cold would have? Could this explain what happened above

Understandably, the team was horribly disappointed at the robot's behavior during our first 3 matches and I'd like to better understand the possible causes so we can avoid a repeat experience. And, we're getting ready for the State competition and want to be sure we understand exactly what went wrong today.

Also, would this have resulted in any permanent damage to the motors?

Thanks so much,

Kitty Reed
FLL Coach for Team #1674

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/21/2004 13:54:14 GMT
    Kitty,

    I'm sorry to hear about your troubles in the tournament. I haven't heard of any troubles with the Lego motors working in the cold. The batteries, however, may be an issue. Cold batteries have a lot less power than warm ones. This is particularly the case for rechargeable NiCd or NiMH batteries, but it is still an issue for alkalines.

    I would think that it may be possible (although I would think it unlikely) that the clearance between some moving components within the motors themselves could be different in the cold, due to contraction of the components with lower temperatures. (I have no idea whether or not this is actually true, but it is potentially possible, particularly with components of dissimilar materials.) In any case, I highly doubt that being in the cold would have caused any permanent damage to the motors, but I have not tried using a bot with cold motors before. We keep the robots in the house the night before the tournament and wait to load the car until the morning.

    I think the cold batteries explanation is more likely, particularly if the team's robot requires a "lot of push" to move, as would be the case for a treaded bot or heavy wheeled bot.

    I hope the robot runs better for you at your State Tournament!

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: ilsgreen2292 11/22/2004 06:01:19 GMT
      I couldn't vouch for sure whether cold temperatures affect motors, batteries, or both, but I can share an experience from our regional on a cold November day from last year. The gym used as the pit area opened to the outside through a lobby and was the main entrance to the tournament. However, in-and-out traffic for the teams had all of the doors open through most of the registration period. The end of the pit area nearest this door was cold (probably 55-60 F) throughout the beginning of the morning warm-up session, and robots just weren't behaving right in the morning -- until about 11 AM, when the inside to outside traffic reduced and the gym had a chance to warm back up again.

      This year, the same regional was 1) held on a warmer November day (for Wisconsin), 2) and fewer teams attended, which allowed 3) a gym dividing barrier to be lowered as an additional wall between the door and the pit area. Robot problems in the morning were greatly reduced.

      I advise bringing the robots inside from the cold. Everything else can stay packed in the car overnight, but bring the robots inside from the cold.

      Mark Beitz



Folder: Table Constructions 10/03/2004 02:11:23 GMT



Folder: portable table 11/08/2004 16:59:51 GMT
i am looking for plans for a portable playing field. our current table is very heavy and does not fit into the elevator of our school. has anyone out there come up with a portable table?

Discussion: Portable table design By: spacegirls544 11/08/2004 16:59:51 GMT
I just built a table that folds in half again this year. Basically, I used two 4'x4'x1/2" MDF boards, three 8' 2x4s, two 24" x 1" piano hinges, a lot of #5 1/2" screws, double sided tape (the secret to keeping the piano hinge in place while you screw it down), a few 2 1/2" #8 screws, and eight 3" #8 screws.

Predrill the holes to avoid splitting the wood, and it works pretty nicely.

Feel free to email me at paul@web2xml.com if you need any info or questions.

Paul Tan.

  1. Message by: 11/08/2004 16:59:51 GMT
    Deleted


Discussion: Folding Mission Setup By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 10/10/2004 16:44:53 GMT
I made one for my kids this year that consisted 2x4's that created just the boarder. All I did was cut the long ones in half and add hinges so they fold ; notch the ends of each of the boards so that the kids can quickly fit them together then drill holes down all four corner to place a 'locking pin' in them (actually they are very large screws for strength). Then all the kids have to do is roll the mat out in the middle of the border. Takes less than 3 minutes to setup.

This way the kids can move it and set it up by themselves. Plus it can be placed in a small car without taking up alot of space. Let me know if you want pictures and plans.

Carla :)
Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/10/2004 16:44:53 GMT
    Interestingly there has been an extensive conversation anong the tournament partners on lightweight and folding tables. The conversation is still ongoing, but the worry of unstandard tables in competition was strong. Teams can get pretty upset if the table surface or inside walls have any seams that can catch and deflect a robot.

    I to have a folding table I use with my team. It solves the storage issue, but introduces the deadly seam. For practice use, they are great, but I would not suggest them for tournament use.

    -Skye


Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: fll-freak1328 10/01/2004 07:00:27 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
year's rule changes.

The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the FAQ at:

http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

Skye Sweeney
Skye@fll-freak.com

  1. Message by: crt617 09/19/2004 18:34:01 GMT
    When you have finished building the board pieces are you supposed to have any leftover pieces or does this mean we did something wrong?


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/19/2004 19:22:22 GMT
      We have always had a few pieces left over! You can use those
      in your robot!

      -Skye


    2. Message by: Wildcats2263 09/19/2004 20:50:26 GMT
      After the kids built the field assemblies, we had more pieces left over than I was comfortable with. I found that most of them belonged somewhere. So, look over the models and make sure that they've been assembled correctly. I looked at the bill of materials, and if we were only supposed to have gotten one or two of a piece, and I still had one, I figured it probably hadn't been put together right. (Also make sure that you've built both red gates!) Then, if you still have a few left, don't worry about it. After all, extra pieces are better than missing pieces!
      Monica


    3. Message by: LegoManiacs2004 10/01/2004 07:00:27 GMT
      I am helping out with two teams at two different schools. With one team, when we were done, we had enough excess pieces to almost build another one of the gate pillars.

      With the other set we had exactly two extra pieces. Go figure!!!


Discussion: Attaching the light By: anonymous988 09/22/2004 17:07:32 GMT
Any suggestions about attaching the light to the table? We work in a lab where the table needs to be stored between meetings. If we bolt it on, the table becomes too unwieldy to move.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/21/2004 22:36:26 GMT
    Perhaps bolt some sections of PVC pipe to the borber, and
    then use the mating PVC pipe to made the bracket to go up
    and over the table. You could then quickly disassemble the
    lights when you have to move it. Just make sure you use
    the clear plastic tubes that protect the bulbs.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: RoboManiacs 09/21/2004 22:39:15 GMT
      Another option is to use butterfly bolts which can easily be unscrewed when you need to store the table.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      Team web site


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/22/2004 17:05:36 GMT
        Another suggestion is to use the preformed metal table assembly parts that fit 2x4s. They are sold at Home Depot and Lowes and are less than a dollar. They mount to the table and provide a place to slide the 2x4 in. We have velcro behind the mount to hold the 2x4 in.

        We use this since we have to take the light fixture off each night also. We use chain to hold the light to hooks on the overhead.

        Laura


        1. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/22/2004 17:06:54 GMT
          Here is a picture of the bracket.
          Laura


Discussion: Inconsistent Instructions for Table Construction By: falcons1013 09/28/2004 17:33:34 GMT
We are a new team. When we got the 2004 Team manual we built a table per the instructions in Appendix A which said that the inside border had to be 45 +/-1/8 inch in width and 93 +/-1/8 inch in length. One of the coaches being an engineer built a table that was correct in each dimension.

However when the oversize mat arrived and was trimmed down per instructions it is still larger. The correct size for the mat, per the email correction is defined as 45 1/8 inches by 93 1/8 in which means our table being 45 x 93 per the above is too small.

Obviously this is easy to fix by moving two of the borders but inconsistent use of dimensions and tolerancing is not a good example for the children we are trying to teach. If the mat is going to be 45 1/8 by 93 1/8 then the table dimensions and tolerancing are incorrect.

Gary Spiers
Coach falcons1013

  1. Message by: SharonB 09/25/2004 21:00:57 GMT
    Make the board correct, trim the mat to fit. If 1/8 inch is your problem, you don't have a problem. Or, I should say, you ain't seen nothin' yet!


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/25/2004 21:14:37 GMT
      I think Jack is referring to the fact that many tables will
      be made just days before and will be of vastly varying
      quality. Huge splinters, gouges in the side walls, warped
      plywood or edges are all par for the course. The fact that
      your table is just 1/8 off, is a tiny variation compared
      to what you are likely to see.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: lindenlights3843 09/27/2004 19:46:38 GMT
      I am overseeing the making of a new table. I checked some things out at my local Home Depot. I see that luan has some imperfections in it. What about using hardboard (pegboard without the holes)for the base instead? Does anybody know which is lighter?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/27/2004 19:51:01 GMT
        My favorite material is MDO plywood. It is not light, but it has this paper/plastic face that makes it glass smooth.
        It is used mostly by sign makers and was not available at my Home Depot but was at my local ACE lumber yard.

        -Skye


    3. Message by: MA FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/28/2004 04:48:21 GMT
      Hi Folks,
      The question of how to trim the mat may need to be specified by FLL. I may be wrong, but I believe the mats should be trimmed exactly as they would be at the national tournament, so that everyone starts out at the same place at home base, I would thinks that if you positioned home base at a specified lacation and trim the mat accordingly the size will be consistent at all tournaments. I don't think adjusting the size of the table is a good idea.
      Bill


      1. Message by: SharonB 09/28/2004 17:33:34 GMT
        Precisely how to trim the mat IS provided in the Q&A of September 15 "Mat Size".


Discussion: Paint for Border By: spiders1505 09/28/2004 02:10:51 GMT
Just wondering if the paint used for the table border can be "glossy" or should we use "flat" paint? We already have glossy, but we are a new team and arent' sure if it will affect the light sensor. Thanks!

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/28/2004 02:10:51 GMT
    This issue is covered in the FAQ at www.fll-freak.com/faq
    The upshot is that there is no spec. Every table around the world might be different. And yes, it might make a difference.
    -Skye


Discussion: Floor Mat Tear By: Six Guys and a Robot1118 09/28/2004 22:31:03 GMT
The plastic cover from our overhead fluorescent light fell off and punctured the floor mat in two spots. One is covered by the stairs. The other is 1/4" long and is located to the right of the path just in front of the stairs. Will we need to purchase a new mat or is this less critical than I think? Should we try to fix the tear?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/28/2004 22:31:03 GMT
    Two things come to mind.

    1) The specs for the table do not call for a diffuser, so do not bother to put it back on!

    2) A nasty mat with bumps and tears may force your team to be more tolerant of non perfect environments (just like the ones at competition!).

    I would first smooth out the tear with gentle heat from an iron (lowest setting). I would then cover it with packing tape. This trully is a mixed blessing.

    -Skye



Folder: Table Setup 12/01/2004 17:45:55 GMT



Folder: Dining table constructon 10/12/2004 13:37:59 GMT
We lost our field building CD before we built the dinig table. Can anyone help us with a new copy or just the directions for the table? Pictures of the table during construction would also work since it doesn't look complicated. We are located in CT.

Discussion: Pictures of table setup By: fll-freak1328 09/17/2004 15:50:51 GMT
You can find pictures of a typical table setup at:
http://www.fll-freak.com/2004/2004_table_setup.htm

-Skye

  1. Message by: Pennichuck1376 09/14/2004 19:33:02 GMT
    Skye - thanks for the pictures - you are way ahead of us, we haven't had our first meeting yet. Some questions ....

    I didn't see any locktight instructions anywhere, where did you find them? Is the CD holder fastened to the mat? Also, how does the gate open? Does it swing open away from the animals?

    -- Paul


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/14/2004 19:43:09 GMT
      You will have to wait for 12:00 tomorrow. The instructions are with the rest of the Challenge Kickoff material.
      Laura


    2. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/14/2004 20:13:29 GMT
      I guessed! It was rather apparent to me that the squares
      with an X represented Dual-Lock. I also guessed on the
      flag setup and gate direction. If I am wrong, I will have
      to update the pictures! We will all get to find out on
      Sept 15.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: bluewizards20 09/16/2004 01:51:45 GMT
        Did you have enough dual locks? I came up short.

        Dennis
        Blue Wizards


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/16/2004 02:56:09 GMT
          Not sure. I purposely do not use all the Dual-Lock they give us. I make the setup "fragile" to force the kids to not rely on the models to stop a robot. As an example I only used 4 pairs for the gate rather than the 8.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: bluewizards20 09/16/2004 03:15:19 GMT
            That is a good idea. The table hardly needs 8 pairs of dual locks to keep the animals in place. If you follow their recommendations, you will run out.

            Dennis


    3. Message by: RoboTroopers 09/17/2004 15:01:40 GMT
      I have not yet received my board pieces. Can anyone tell us the width of the stairs and the length and width of the top platform of the stairs.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/17/2004 15:35:24 GMT
        RoboTroopers,
        I will try to get this information for you over the weekend
        if somebody does not beat me to it.

        PS: Please only post your question once in the most
        appropriate place. Once you learn to use the message center,
        you will see all new messages. Having multiple postings just
        clutters up the forum.

        -Skye Sweeney


        1. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/17/2004 15:50:51 GMT
          The Sharron Eagles have the table pieces on their web site such that you can see the size. Here is a direct link to their picture. its 6x12 plates in 4x2 set.
          http://syraweb.home.comcast.net/images/stairs%20800x600.jpg

          or their main site:
          http://syraweb.home.comcast.net/photogallery2004challenge.htm


Discussion: Basket set up By: irken invaders 12/01/2004 17:45:55 GMT
Should the basket holder be placed such that it is centered at the 46.5 inch mark of the border? The drawing with the instructions looks like one end of it is placed at the center mark.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/15/2004 22:35:19 GMT
    The field setup instructions on the web are fairly detailed on this topic.

    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14160

    -Skye


    1. Message by: irken invaders 09/16/2004 12:40:56 GMT
      Hi Skye:

      Great to "talk" with you again this year...

      My concern about the basket set up is that the diagram shows the support piece end being set up so that its right end (as you stand at the flags) is even with the mid-point (46.5 inches). However, there is that arrow pointing at "Centered." If that refers to the basketball court then our mat is way off as the centered basketball layout is farther to the right. I locked the support piece with it ccentered at the 46.5 inch martk and have wound up with a set up that matches the photo you published in the table setup section.

      I hope I'm explaining my concern correctly. My table does seem to match the one pictured but I just want it to be right for the team.

      Coach Mark (3rd year)


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/16/2004 12:48:26 GMT
        Mark,
        The key is the basket must be perfectly centered on the length of the table. That way with back to back tables at
        a competition the basket is in the same relative location
        for both teams. What you should NOT do is center it on the
        basketball court printed on the mat. Hope this helps.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: irken invaders 09/16/2004 13:47:57 GMT
      Thanks, Skye. That explains it much better.

      Coach Mark


    3. Message by: oxfordtech1704 09/20/2004 02:34:06 GMT
      The picture of the basket on the mission part shows it centered in the key of the basketball court??? Is that correct??

      Joe (coach)


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/20/2004 03:07:50 GMT
        Read the table setup instructions carefully. They will tell
        you how to set up the basket.

        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14160

        -Skye


    4. Message by: oxfordtech1704 09/21/2004 02:25:48 GMT
      I can't see how the directions are correct. In the graphic is shows one end of the holder at the midpoint mark. If this is correct it means that one side of the table would be different than the other. It seems that the holder should be centered on the "center mark" of 46.5"

      Joe
      (coach)


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/21/2004 02:51:17 GMT
        The verbal directions are ok, and the picture a little
        confusing. The instruction say to DualLock the holder at
        "that midpoint". That means the midpoint of the holder and
        the midpoint of the back wall should be lined up. The
        picture would seem to show that the vertical measurement
        line hitting the far edge of the holder. But I do beleive
        that a carefull examination shows the witness line extending
        down into the holder at its midpoint.

        Regardless of the picture, the basket MUST be centered on
        the back wall. If not, it would cause massive confusion!

        -Skye


        1. Message by: RoboManiacs 09/21/2004 21:19:13 GMT
          Not unlike what we are experiencing in the forum right now!!!! :)

          RoboManiacs
          Team #9
          Team web site


    5. Message by: See-More 1298 09/21/2004 22:39:47 GMT
      Part of the confusion may be in setting up the basket with only one table. We have two tables set-up tournament style. The basket ball courts do NOT line up. So the basket cannot be centered by the mat markings, thus the need to the measurements off the table itself. However, even with the basket slightly off-center in respect to the mat, the shift is identical on both sides of the table. (Not sure I'm stating this very clearly!)

      Marie


    6. Message by: fbi494 09/27/2004 20:19:24 GMT
      Does anyone have a clear picture of how the basket sits on the basket holder..."Place the Basket on the Basket Holder, making sure it*s trapped between the little orange cones." Those orange cones do not line up as well as we expected with anything on the basket and wanted to make sure the team built it correctly... if a robot hits the basket, it seems to move around easier then expected. Thanks


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/27/2004 20:30:53 GMT
        Is this clear enough? The little orange pegs sit to the sides of the black frame work under the basket.

        http://home.comcast.net/~fll-freak/2004/2004_table_setup.htm

        -Skye


    7. Message by: roboknights 11/30/2004 20:07:08 GMT
      So far I have been to two different tournaments that had the basket set up differently, and neither one conformed to the instructions. At the first tournament, the basket was centered on one court which meant that it was off center (toward the base) by about an inch on the opposing table. I brought this up to the head judge before the tournament and was told that the tables were measured and were fine(which they were not). At the second tournament, they actually offset the tables by an inch or so to make to lanes of the basketball court line up and then centered the basket.


      1. Message by: SMART 1 11/30/2004 20:59:39 GMT
        You know - we hear over and over again on the forum how inexperienced volunteers are recruited to make the tables the day before the competitions. Perhaps First should take that into account when creating the tables and instructions.

        To someone who hasn't _carefully_ read the setup instructions and seen pictures it looks wrong for the hoop not to be centered on the court lines.

        At our recent qualifier they got the positions right, but there were assistant refs at the table to help put the tables right and I noticed a couple of them trying to "center" the hoop after the rounds before the head ref corrected them.

        I'm trying to think how centering the court lines and the hoop on the table design would have made a difference qualitatively in the mission and I'm stumped if I can figure out a reason why the court lines aren't centered along with the hoop.

        - Peter


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/30/2004 21:17:50 GMT
          Peter,

          Just be glad that we have LEGO field elements and plastic mats. In the "good old days" you had to build all the doodads out of lumber. One year (Volcanic Panic) a coach had to make a cone shaped volcano out of wood with a solenoid operated marble dispenser in the crater! Talk about differences in fields!

          Personaly, I think FIRST is doing a fantastic job. Each year the program gets better as they learn from previous year problems. Considering that all the tournaments are volunteer events, the consistancy is very high.

          Although consistency is nice, having a SMALL change to overcome on the day of the tournament is kind of fun! I am sure it is a nasty surprise for a rookie team, but for a veteran team, it adds a little spice!

          It is a true engineering situation. You built the thing according to spec, but it still does not fit! So what are we going to do? Too late to complain to the customer! Anybody got a file?

          -Skye


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/30/2004 21:25:48 GMT
        A few comments:

        With this being the third year for the team I coach, one of the things that the students (and coach) have learned is that table variation is to be expected from table to table and tournament to tournament, despite the best efforts of tournament volunteers. I agree that tables should be as uniform as possible from tournament to tournament.

        That said, the Mayhem team has learned that some level of variation is almost impossible to avoid. Also, the kinds of variation that are likely to be seen can be anticipated! When some sort of variation can be reasonably expected, the team should design a solution to that mission that can accomodate that sort of variation! I can give a few examples of what I mean from past challenges.

        In the CitySights 2002 challenge, the team had a very cool, quick way to flip down the bridge. However, they found at the State Tournament that their mechanism which worked 100% of the time with the bridge placed *exactly* on the dual-lock squares would fail about 50% of the time if the bridge were placed about 2mm off in the wrong direction, and fail all the time if the bridge were as much as 4mm off. They were fortunate in the NH Finals to not run on a table which had a slightly misplaced bridge. Note that a 2mm error in placement is within what I would consider "human error" and is about the best one can reasonably expect. In years since then, the team has learned to not rely on perfect placement of dual-locked components. Indeed, during "practice trials" of the robot, they actually test missions with the models not only in their correct positions, but also with the models misplaced slightly in various likely misplacements.

        Another area for potential misplacement is alignment of the table mat with the table walls. Depending on how the table mat is trimmed, how the borders are built, etc., there can easily be up to a 5mm varation, and even as much as 1-2cm variation with a poorly constructed table or poorly trimmed mat. On last year's Mission Mars challenge, the team came up with solutions that can tolerate some mat placement variation when following walls or using walls for alignment. The team was fortunate last year when preparing for the International Tournament to enter a local tournament in February that actually had EIGHT tournament tables. The team stayed late after that practice tournament to run on all 8 tables to find out how the robot might fail with different tables. They documented the problems, and then worked on fixing the robot to work in spite of those problems before the international tournament. This year, they have been careful to think about what would go wrong if the wall were 1cm too close, or too far away, etc. They have attempted to design mission solutions that can accomodate that level of variation from table to table.

        With this year's challenge, it was obvious from the time when the challenge was announced that there would be significant variation in the placement of the basket. Accordingly, the team tests out their basket missions with the basket placed not only in the correct spot, but also misplaced as much as 2 inches in either direction. A good solution to the basket mission will work for all these cases.

        Yes, the team has had to do a lot more work to deal with these expected variations. However, I am sure that the students have learned a lot more about fault tolerance and planning robotic solutions that can deal with expected variation. This is exactly what real robotics engineers need to do.

        That said, yes, I do think the tables should always be correct, and should be fixed if they are out of spec. However, a team is wise to try to accomodate as much expected variation as possible. Generally, this approach also has the side-effect of making the "perfect case" situations more reliable.

        Just my two cents.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


        1. Message by: SMART 1 11/30/2004 22:37:40 GMT
          I agree with most of you and Skye's points regarding human error. I am a fourth year coach/mentor so of course I understand that no two tables will be exactly alike.

          But I won't agree that it's OK to design the field to invite human error. If there is a way to design the field to make it easier for tournament organizers to build it consistently why wouldn't FIRST want to do that? I would go further and say that it is obvious that FIRST _does_ want to do that given that they went to standardized tables, mats, lights, etc. since Volcanic panic. My post was merely a suggestion to further that goal - not a suggestion that all tables must be identical.

          So far this year, our team has seen the bus stop flag holders coming off at an angle from the table due to warped wood, inconsistent light values due to use of spotlights rather than shop lights, "peculiar" basket ball hoops where the holder wasn't on the matt, or the bottom was misshapen, etc. so we've encountered our share of challenges and worked to overcome them without complaint.

          To any rookie teams "listening in" - definitely be aware that planning for a certain amount of inconsistency is part of the game. This includes both engineering tolerance as well as "defensive" programming. Anything that seemed tricky for you to build when you were putting the table together will certainly be tricky for the volunteers to put together consistently as well!

          Happy hunting.

          - Peter


    8. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/01/2004 16:41:51 GMT
      Last year was our second season, after doing well in our first season and then having the robot come apart because of a table anomaly, our team decided that would not happen to us or anyone else again (as long as we were around!) So we have made it a point to volunteer our kids and parents to build and tweak the playing fields.

      Before each tournament, we ask the director if they need anyone to help build the tables and if they need help on setup day. They always say yes. At one tournament last year, we got there at 3pm with 10 kids and 10 adults, set up the pits and the tables only to see the tables were made out of the cheapest plywood on the market. There were knots that went 1/4 inch down and some that were the opposite, they were oozing sap out the top. 3 parents and 2 kids repaired the boards that night by putting bathroom board over the plywood. The teams were very happy the next day.

      Its ok to complain that the world is not exactly the same everywhere, but I think its better to try to fix what you can and deal with the rest.

      Laura


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/01/2004 16:49:09 GMT
        Well said.

        My father's two favorite sayings:
        1) Results not excuses
        2) You can't complain unless you have a solution.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: SharonB 12/01/2004 17:07:37 GMT
          Hey! My father's favorite saying:
          i Trust no one, assume nothing.


      2. Message by: SMART 1 12/01/2004 17:28:13 GMT
        Bravo, great idea!

        Perhaps most impressive is that your team felt so well prepared for the competition that they were willing to give up time the day before the competition to help out.

        - Peter


        1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/01/2004 17:45:55 GMT
          Well, that is part of their preparation. We never practice the day before a tournament. It gives the kids a chance to settle down. Kids are not at all like grown ups. I've found that a hard practice the day before a tournament cause major anxiety the day of the tournament. Sometime we meet and play football or something. The exercise and working at setup gets them tired so it makes them more comfortable that night so they can go to sleep easier.

          Of course, this is one team and one coach. But its our secret :-)

          Laura


Discussion: Mat Trimming By: blockheads1950 10/05/2004 23:06:11 GMT
Please help us clear some confusion we have so we can properly trim out mat. The instructions refer to North, South, East and West directions but don't clearly define.

There are the words bus on the mat. Are these on the South edge of the board?

Is the computer desk on the North West end of the board?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/16/2004 20:16:58 GMT
    The Q&A has a description that does not include compass
    directions! Try this link:

    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14200

    -Skye


    1. Message by: blockheads1950 09/16/2004 22:57:57 GMT
      Thanks, that helps. The Q&A I have didn't have that question answered yet. It did have one about the bus signs that I don't see on your link. Are there two sets of Q&A?

      I have also talked to several at our meeting and if we had to quess that is what we would have done. We feel much better with your help.


      1. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 09/17/2004 22:39:35 GMT
        The Q&A will change over time as Scott Evans adds stuff. So check back frequently.

        Courtney


    2. Message by: clippers2585 10/05/2004 20:53:20 GMT
      I just want to make sure we trim our mat correctly.....Is the side that is considered the 'bottom of the base' the same side that has the boxes that say 'bus' on it.
      Thanks


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/05/2004 21:12:11 GMT
        Yes, the bottom is the bus lane, the left is by the glasses, the right over by the gate, and the "EvansBall" hoop is the top.
        -Skye


    3. Message by: Wildcats2263 10/05/2004 22:01:33 GMT
      Wow. I interpreted that differently. I assumed bottom was where the kids stand at the narrow end of the table. Also because you can't measure a consistent border along the bus side due to the thickness of the black changing. Now that I think about it, the words are oriented one way, so that also makes sense as bottom. And it seemed clear before.
      Monica


    4. Message by: Wildcats2263 10/05/2004 23:06:11 GMT
      Got the following from Scott:

      The BUS side is bottom (as one would usually consider the orientation of a page based on how it is held for reading).

      If yours drifts/tapers a little, shoot for making the side of the bottom 3/8" (near base) and make the right side of the bottom 1-3/4" (near the BUS signs).

      While you work, remember that overcutting a little is okay. When we say that the left border is supposed to be 1/4" thick, what really matters is that the inner edge of the border ends up being 1/4" from the wall. If you overcut and there's a little wood showing, that's fine.

      Monica


Discussion: Gate swing By: Tweeters177 09/20/2004 03:09:09 GMT
The kids successfully set up the gate with the hinges on the right side and the gate swing toward the robot. I believe this cannot be right and I have had them remake it with the gate swinging away from the robot. Unfortunately, I cannot find any information to substantiate my theory. Could anyone please clarify? Thanks.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/20/2004 03:09:09 GMT
    Your team had it right the first time. The gate opens
    towards the robot and away from the red patio. If you
    follow the instructions on the CD you will make it the
    right way.

    -Skye


Discussion: Dual Lock By: Southbrook Lego Troopers 10/22/2004 05:11:40 GMT
Our team kit did not have enough Dual lock, how do I get more so that I can secure all of the parts

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/22/2004 04:05:53 GMT
    Read the Q+A page. They tell you what to do!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 09/22/2004 17:23:24 GMT
      Take some off of your stair case, leaving six pairs. I also used less on the fence, making it more fragle, that way the kids will stay away from it. That should help you get a few more.


    2. Message by: IAFLLModerator 09/22/2004 19:06:06 GMT
      Here is that posting in the Q&A:
      Q: We followed the Field Setup instructions closely on the use of squares, but ended up having no Dual Lock left for the custom pieces mentioned. Did we do something wrong?

      A: No, that's our error. To free up some Dual Lock, steal 6 pairs of squares from the stairs (leaving a pair at each corner), steal 2 pairs diagonally from each pet, and steal 4 pairs from the Basket Holder. If you still need more after that, an adequate but less friendly substitute is "2-Sided Foam Tape" available at hardware stores


    3. Message by: LegoManiacs2004 10/22/2004 05:11:40 GMT
      Dual lock is also available at your friendly neighborhood Radio Shack. I would think you would not want to use foam tape. It would be rather permanent would it not?


Discussion: table map By: supernerds2273 11/11/2004 17:38:41 GMT
On the map of the park area or what ever there is a pond behind the stairs what are the rules on that???

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/22/2004 16:54:41 GMT
    Since there are no rules specific to the pond, you can
    treat it like any other area.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Tweeters177 11/08/2004 00:27:59 GMT
      our mat didn't have some lines and this might be important.
      we tried to complete the lines with a sharpie but its reading was about 46-48 about the reading of the green.
      the thin black, which is what the sharpie is representing is about 40-45
      did anyone else have this problem and how/did you find a solution for it?
      do you think they can give us some new mats or could they have a seperate board for those teams with the wrong kind of mats?


    2. Message by: LaSalle278.280 11/11/2004 17:37:52 GMT
      It is unlikely that they will have separate mats. As always, you need to adjust your light values when you get to the tournament. The light values will vary due to ambient light from other sources. You can minimize this by shielding the light sensor so it is very dark and only gets light bouncing back from the LED of the sensor. For this reason, it is a good ideal to use a variable or constant to represent the values and not rely on placing the specific value in each piece of code. In all tournaments you are allowed a specific time to take light readings at the tournament tables before the competition. We have found in the past that sometimes the value will change once the competition starts as not all the lights were on during the setup phase. This is just some of the challenges you face at the competition and everyone is faced with the same challenge. There are several options for addressing this issue. Good luck

      Dave Kolberg
      Coach 278 & 280


Discussion: Bus Signs By: bluewizards20 11/02/2004 21:16:35 GMT
Does anyone a close-up picture of the bus signs? It seems that only the sign holders should be dual locked so that they can be move around easily as per the challenge.

Dennis
Blue Wizards

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/16/2004 03:56:41 GMT
    Dennis,
    The instructions seem to indicate that dual lock should be used on the flag as well as the little toogle piece. I did not set my table up this way. I only used dual lock on the toggle.

    Since a team can fail to get its bus points if they rip off the flags, it is beneficial to make them more fragile. The team will then not rely on that strength for strategy.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: bluewizards20 09/16/2004 14:37:28 GMT
      Skye,

      I think you are right on the mark. This is the way we setup our table as well.

      Good luck this year!

      Dennis


    2. Message by: Techmoetronics 10/22/2004 20:49:30 GMT
      Our team can not figure out how to mount the bus signs with the sign holders. Also what do the rules mean by "deflect the white bus sign?" Please reply. Thanks.


      1. Message by: The Somethings 3626 10/23/2004 20:27:27 GMT
        I can't figure that out either.

        Good luck!


      2. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/23/2004 20:59:20 GMT
        You need to read this document:

        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14160

        It will tell you how to Dual-Lock the little toggle to the top of the border and how the sign holder then locks in place.

        -Skye


      3. Message by: AZK3535 11/02/2004 21:16:35 GMT
        Deflect means in this case to push down


    3. Message by: 10/23/2004 20:28:20 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: Stair construction By: RoboTroopers 10/21/2004 21:17:59 GMT
I have not yet received my board pieces. Can anyone tell us the width of the stairs and the length and width of the top platform of the stairs.

  1. Message by: Yellow Brick Roaders 2081 09/17/2004 17:42:14 GMT
    The stairs are 7 1/2" wide (24 dots). The two lower platforms are 3 1/8" long (10 dots). The upper platform is 7 1/2" long (24 dots--the upper platform is square). The height between platforms is 5/8" (1 brick plus 1 plate). The railing at the back of the upper platform is 1/4" in diameter, ending 2" above the surface. The railing is past the end of the platform (cantilevered out about 1/4".


    1. Message by: RoboTroopers 09/17/2004 18:59:02 GMT
      Thanks for the help Yellow Brick Road.


    2. Message by: Flashes271 10/21/2004 19:00:02 GMT
      how long are the stairs suppose to be if you know please email me at student24499@hotmail.com


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/21/2004 21:17:59 GMT
        The stairs are as long as they end up being when you make them according to the directions on the CD in your field/challenge kit. Have you lost the disk? Have you not gotten your kit yet?

        -Skye


Discussion: Recommended Sites for Lego Purchases By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 10/10/2004 02:57:47 GMT
Are there a couple websites that someone can recommend that we can purchase individual lego pieces?...my team is looking for a couple pieces that are not in the standard set. Thanks!! Carla :)

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/27/2004 23:37:53 GMT
    www.bricklink.com

    Lots of stores, lots of choice, gazillions of parts.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Wildcats2263 09/27/2004 23:52:38 GMT
      Try http://www.legoeducationstore.com/. Not as much variety as bricklink, but I've found better prices on things still in production.
      Monica


    2. Message by: RoboDocs 09/29/2004 08:26:32 GMT
      Peeron is another great resource. If you're looking for parts this is a great place to start. They have a large database of almost every LEGO part and you can search by type, color, set, and other ways. Also, they link to stores where you can buy the parts and show you the price by store. One thing I really like about Peeron is that they tell you what sets contain a specific part (and how many are in the set). If you're looking for a bunch of parts sometimes it's cheaper to buy the sets.

      By the way, I've purchased from Bricklink sellers as well as LEGO Education - both are great.

      Happy hunting (and buying).

      =Steve
      Hacienda Robotics


    3. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/29/2004 16:03:54 GMT
      Walmart. OK, its not that classy, but they have all the motor madness sets on 50% off. That is less than the price of a motor and you get other cool stuff. The motor in the motor madness set is really nice as it has a female axle connection. Thus you can run any size output.

      Laura.. tired of hurricanes


      1. Message by: LaSalle278.280 09/29/2004 21:37:34 GMT
        Careful, we are only allowed to use the motor that came with the set, not another type.
        From Q&A Other Electric Parts
        Q: There are alternatives to the standard motors and sensors out there. Are any of these allowed?

        A: No. You must use the motors and sensors that come in the standard FLL Robot Set. Normally when we're not specific about something, it's open, but this is not.

        Dave Kolberg
        Coach 278 & 280


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/29/2004 21:50:31 GMT
          I was perplexed by this Q&A as it seems to have come out of the blue. It had always simply been 3 LEGO motors in factory original condition. So off went an email asking for confirmation on a Q&A question!

          I just got an email from FIRST indicating that only the 9 volt gear reduction motor as supplied with a Mindstorms kit are allowed. I will update the UFAQ to reflect this.

          I believe that I have heard of teams in the past using the other electric motors like the micromotor. Any veterans out there actually such a bot?

          -Skye


          1. Message by: SharonB 09/30/2004 04:16:36 GMT
            No, I never saw anything other than the Gear Motor in use.


      2. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/30/2004 15:45:46 GMT
        An update on the motors in the I&A says you can't use the nice motors from the motor madness sets :-( Oh well. Back to the design team.
        Laura


        1. Message by: RoboDocs 10/10/2004 02:49:11 GMT
          That's too bad that the motor madness motors are not allowed. Another thing I like about them (in addition to the axle connector that Laura already mentioned) is that they have a perfectly flat bottom so they're a bit easier to mount on a robot. They run a bit faster than the standard motors which means they are a bit noisier and use up more juice but it's still a really nice design.

          =Steve


          1. Message by: RoboDocs 10/10/2004 02:57:47 GMT
            Forgot to mention in my last post that shop.lego.com is having a half price sale on the Wild Wind-up set. For $12.50 you get a wind up motor you *can* use in the competition, a neat T gearbox and lots of other pieces. Peeron has the complete inventory of this set.

            =Steve


Discussion: Strings and RubberBands By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 09/30/2004 08:27:20 GMT
I was looking at http://www.legoeducationstore.com/ for lego parts and saw that they sell strings and rubberbands...are these legal since they are offical LEGO products? Sorry for such a trivial questions but I dont' want my kids in trouble at the competition if these items are not ok. Thanks!! Carla :)

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/28/2004 20:46:09 GMT
    Normaly I would sent you off to read the FAQ at
    www.fll-freak.com. But the web page is off the air for
    the next few hours. So, you get a custom answer.
    Yes, the LEGO rubber bands (more like belts) and string
    are legal. You may even cut the LEGO string to length.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/30/2004 08:27:20 GMT
      LEGO String it ok to use, we did use that one year.


Discussion: Removing RIS and ROBOLAB programs and starting over By: rustyengineers155 10/03/2004 22:33:31 GMT
I have a new laptop and can't get it to recognize the USB tower. I have attempted to remove everything and try again, but still think there is something preventing the tower from being recognized.
Any advice?

  1. Message by: rustyengineers155 10/03/2004 22:33:31 GMT
    Fixed it -- apparently hyper-threading laptops have an issue with the tower. Found the solution under FAQ on the lego website and it worked.


Discussion: Need field kit By: handycapables1343 11/08/2004 19:06:20 GMT
Anybody know where my team can get a field kit? We have'nt recied one yet.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/06/2004 22:46:15 GMT
    Did you purchase the field kit during the registration process? If you have not gotten it, a call to PITSCO would be in order. I was under the assumption that all teams that ordered a field kit should have had it by now.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: 11/08/2004 16:57:22 GMT
      Deleted


      1. Message by: SMART 1 11/08/2004 17:42:42 GMT
        I wonder if you realize that these forums are archived for a number of years.

        Do you really want everyone remembering your team as the team that insults people on the forum?


    2. Message by: fsa3847 11/08/2004 18:02:31 GMT
      I apologize on behalf of my team. I will make sure that they won't write unappropriate words again.


      1. Message by: SMART 1 11/08/2004 19:06:20 GMT
        Middle schoolers are so used to IM and chat. I think we all need to help them understand the difference between public and private communication styles.

        Good luck to your team.

        - Peter


Discussion: Bus Signs - Is just the flag switched and not the base or toggle By: CrazyBots103 12/22/2004 03:14:01 GMT
Reading the instructions for setting up the table, it shows putting dual lock on the base of the flags as well as the table. Does this mean that when switching the flags around during a tournament they will take just the flag off (which is easy to do) and leave the bases where they start out. So that you might end up with the white flag on a black base? Or is the purpose of the dual lock on the base just to make it sturdier? Or are we just reading way to much into this?

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/07/2004 19:37:21 GMT
    During tournaments, the flags and bases will be moved. The white flag will always stay with the white base.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: DSI 12/22/2004 01:14:11 GMT
      will we get points for the white flag being only halfway down.


      1. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 12/22/2004 03:14:01 GMT
        Yes, deflected means moved any amount that can be noticed.

        Courtney


Discussion: ROBOT ATTACHMENTS By: raiders185 01/26/2005 23:10:04 GMT
Are attachments to the robot (like an arm) considered part of the robot? For example: if a 'bot has a long arm and the arm crosses into base after a misson, is the bot considered in base? Or, if when leaving base to begin a mission, the attached arm is out but the main bot is in, is the bot considered out of base?

HMS Raiders #185

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/22/2004 01:05:34 GMT
    From the Q&A:

    i Q: What is the robot defined as this year? Is it everything touching the robot? Is it the RCX?

    i A: Sorry, in effort to simplify the rules, that baby went out with the bath water! The new definition of the robot is "the RCX and anything built onto it, and anything being moved by same".

    So yes, an arm is considered part of the robot. If part of it enters into the base volume, then the robot is in. But the opposite is true as well. All of your robot must be inside the base at the start. And do not forget the 16 inch ceilling!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: raiders185 10/22/2004 01:23:06 GMT
      Thanks for confirming our thoughts...we knew we could count on you!!! :)

      Raiders #185


    2. Message by: BrickBots467 11/04/2004 22:52:44 GMT
      We know you can switch pieces on the robot between "runs", but does anyone know if we can literally switch the RCX to a whole different chassis/robot when we come back to base during the same round???


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/04/2004 23:15:16 GMT
        NO, you can not. The allowable parts run only allows one RCX per match to be brought to the table.

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/05/2004 02:08:57 GMT
          Robomanics,

          I think the wording was could they move their one RCX to another platform. If their wording is accurate, it would be legal (as long as they use only a grand total of 3 motors, 2 touch, ...)

          If we only learn one thing from FLL is that small wording changes can have use consequences!

          -Skye


          1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/05/2004 16:53:13 GMT
            Skye,

            I think your right. I guess we also learn not to answer questions hastilly.

            RoboManiacs
            Team #9
            www.robomaniacs.org


    3. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/04/2004 23:03:33 GMT
      As long as your total count of motors and sensors doesn't exceed the maximum, you can. Look at the Materials section in the rules to be sure you're not exceeding any part limits.
      Monica


    4. Message by: mammoth749 11/05/2004 01:34:44 GMT
      How do you attach/build arms?-from mammoth749


    5. Message by: SandersTigers203 01/26/2005 23:10:04 GMT
      I think that you have a good point of view I also think of it like this if you had a bionic arm or leg would it still be apart of you ,but anyway yes it would be considered apart of the robot.


Discussion: Past items By: robowarriors1946 10/22/2004 20:19:20 GMT
Are we allowed to use the cord from the windmill from "City Limits" on our robot?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/22/2004 20:19:20 GMT
    Yes, that was factory condition elastic cord from LEGO.

    -Skye


Discussion: CD holder placement By: T.R.E.Techno-Tigers 11/08/2004 17:00:16 GMT
Should the CD holder be attached to the mat or is it supposed to be moveable?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/25/2004 03:23:23 GMT
    Sounds like you realy realy need to read this document:

    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14160

    -Skye


    1. Message by: 11/08/2004 16:54:05 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: 11/08/2004 17:00:16 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: CD holder placement By: T.R.E.Techno-Tigers 11/02/2004 04:25:52 GMT
Should the CD holder be attached to the mat or is it supposed to be moveable?

  1. Message by: Cryptikatz2514 11/02/2004 04:25:27 GMT
    Because there are the little squares with X's in them, the holder should be attached to the mat.


Discussion: how to use black line By: Ninjaeagles2436 11/02/2004 22:34:01 GMT
our team is having trouble with making the robot follow the black line need help

ninja eagles

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/25/2004 18:46:54 GMT
    Ninja Eagles,

    You should read "Toeing the Line (Experiments with Line-following Algorithms)" by Jonathan A. Gray. It is available for download at http://www.fll-freak.com It uses Robolab, but it has lots of good information! You can also read the Coach's Handbook at the same location. There is a description of line following there as well.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: moe knows 11/02/2004 22:10:53 GMT
      Our 3M table liner did not come with one of the black lines needed for light sensors. We were thinking about taking a straight edge ruler and marking our table with a Sharpie. Does anyone have any advice before we ruin our table?

      Thanks,
      Moe Knows


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/02/2004 22:34:01 GMT
        Read the last Q&A

        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14200

        -Skye


Discussion: Light Sensor By: robowarriors1946 01/14/2005 05:32:38 GMT
How do you use a light sensor?
We can't figure it out. We have tried everything we could find.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/26/2004 22:52:47 GMT
    What are you trying to do with the sensor. What exactly does not work?

    -Skye


    1. Message by: robowarriors1946 10/26/2004 22:56:16 GMT
      We are trying to "sense" the change in the color. We need to know how to program it to work.


    2. Message by: roboticraptors1620 11/10/2004 17:42:13 GMT
      I just saw this today and wanted to know how you are doing. I had no part in coaching my son's team last year and the coaches insisted that the light sensor was broken. It was very frustrating.
      Skye has probably helped you out, but if not I encourage you to try just a simple experiment like go to a black line and stop. I hope I am not talking down to you but my experience is with people who get so caught up in how to do the challenge they forget to try simple experiments.
      p.s.
      we just tried a simple experiment to see if Mindstorms would allow us to double a touch and light sensor on one port. We learned we could not. You might say the experiment was a failure because we couldn't do what we wanted, but I am trying to get the kids to see it as a success because they learned more about their options.


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/10/2004 17:50:13 GMT
        Robotic Raptors:

        It is possible to double up a touch sensor and a light sensor on one port! I don't know how to program the combination in RIS, but in Robolab, it can be done by treating the "combined sensor" as a light sensor. See section 13.1.8 of the unofficial coach's handbook at http://www.fll-freak.com I believe a similar approach works in RIS.

        In summary, when the touch sensor is not pressed, the "combined sensor" will show the light sensor value (typically between about 30 and 55). When the touch sensor is pressed, the "combined sensor" will read 100.

        In order to get this to work in Robolab, do not use the "touch sensor" blocks, but instead use the "light sensor" blocks, and compare the value to 100 to figure out whether or not the touch sensor is pressed.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


        1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/10/2004 17:53:05 GMT
          I second Ken's reply. I also am unfamiliar with how to do it in RIS but it works very well in Robolab. It is allowing our team to use 5 sensors to complete this year's challenge.

          RoboManiacs
          Team #9
          www.robomaniacs.org


          1. Message by: SharonB 11/10/2004 17:57:13 GMT
            It is very easy in RIS. The light sensor never gets to the limit values, so detecting a touch is very easy; it would take a laser shining directly on the sensor to get the same value!


    3. Message by: roboticraptors1620 11/11/2004 17:45:02 GMT
      Thaks, Ken. I will look up the specific reference. I read in Building Robots With Lego Mindstorms that it was possible but did not know how to make it work.
      We are in NH, too, and were blown away by your perfomance last year.


    4. Message by: roboticraptors1620 11/11/2004 17:48:54 GMT
      By the way, I stand by my statement. We could not- at least, not yesterday!


    5. Message by: cgmsc 12/15/2004 18:52:34 GMT
      Jack Gregory is correct, it is easy to do in RIS (we've done it the last several years). There are a few tricks however to making it work. The most important thing is that the input port must ALWAYS be referenced as a Light input, not ever as a Touch input. Once you reference an input as a touch input RIS won't allow you to test the light value. Pseudo-code to use the touch+light sensor combo on input 1 to follow a line until a bump might go like this;
      ON AB
      REPEAT UNTIL Light1>95
      IF Light1<45 THEN turn right ELSE turn left
      END REPEAT
      STOP AB


    6. Message by: legolakers 12/30/2004 07:48:14 GMT
      Does a robot need to be moving slowly for a light sensor to pick up a color? Does the Light sensor have to be within a certain number of inches of the color to detect a correct reading? (I figure the closer to an object the better the light sensor reading).


      1. Message by: SharonB 12/30/2004 16:27:00 GMT
        Speed isn't an issue unless the band of color is very short (relative to the direction of travel). It also depends on whether the software has to be in a particular place or whether it is handled as an interrupt (separate task / watcher).

        There is definitely an issue with two things:
        1. Ambient light
        2. Distance to object

        You should experiment with these and understand the issues thoroughly.


    7. Message by: BooneBricksters100 01/06/2005 01:22:45 GMT
      My robot does not seem to be responding using the light sensor when it sees a black line. The strange thing is, the robot will work the first time I turn it on, but then after I run it a few times, it will miss a line. The more I run it the worse it gets. Then if I try it again the next day, the same thing will happen; The robot performs fine at first but slowly misses more and more lines.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/06/2005 13:53:27 GMT
        What language are you using? This sounds more like a software bug than a sensor issue.
        Does your software use containers or variables?

        -Skye


        1. Message by: BooneBricksters100 01/08/2005 23:19:10 GMT
          I am using IS 2.0. My program doesn't contain any variables.


      2. Message by: SharonB 01/07/2005 23:03:31 GMT
        Look at the reading you are getting. Do they change like the performance does? If so, it may well be a sensor problem. If not, it is likely a software bug (of yours).


        1. Message by: BooneBricksters100 01/08/2005 23:26:11 GMT
          I know that the light sensor is reading the correct value, and the program says, for example, to go forward until it sees a line and then turn. I programed it to turn when it sees that the light value is less than 50. The reading on the RCX shows around 52 until it hits that black line, and then it changes to 35, but the RXC doesn't do anything about it, it just keeps going straight.


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/08/2005 23:49:46 GMT
            Your best bet is to post the sample program for us to look at. Most likely you are not turning off the motor(s) or you are, but they are turning back on soon after.

            -Skye


          2. Message by: SharonB 01/09/2005 05:05:57 GMT
            We have a saying in programming: when something is wrong, and you have checked everything and you are sure everything is right, then something you are sure of is wrong.

            We have eliminated the sensor. Now we need to find out why the program misses it.

            Make a program that JUST plays a beep when the sensor goes from light to dark. Convince yourself the software can read the light sensor. One step at a time.


      3. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 01/08/2005 00:03:18 GMT
        Here's an off-the-wall thought. Is your light sensor shielded so that it's not affected by the room's lighting? I've seen some interesting behavior with light sensors that are not well shielded and flouresent lighting. As the lights warm up the direct & ambient lighting changes and that affects the sensor readings.

        Doubt this is the issue, but just a thought.

        Courtney


        1. Message by: BooneBricksters100 01/08/2005 23:28:18 GMT
          I've tried it without the fluorescent light on and with a normal light on, and it still does the same thing.


    8. Message by: Robominers4005 01/14/2005 03:24:56 GMT
      How many Light sensors can we use? Do they count as a electronical part and if so How many can we use?


    9. Message by: Robominers4005 01/14/2005 03:28:33 GMT
      Do light sensors count as electronical part and if so how many can we have?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/14/2005 05:32:38 GMT
        A light sensor is an electric part. Read the rules here for how many you can use!

        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14150

        -Skye


    10. Message by: GMT


Discussion: basketball goal By: robocats 11/10/2004 16:46:24 GMT
I can not figure out how to get the balls through the goal

  1. Message by: robocats 10/27/2004 22:29:28 GMT
    How do I get the balls through the goal


    1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/27/2004 22:32:18 GMT
      You don't need to get them through the goal. The object is to get them into the goal.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


    2. Message by: fsa3847 11/10/2004 16:46:24 GMT
      like he said in not through.


Discussion: Adding Parts During Match By: The Somethings 3626 12/03/2004 00:04:57 GMT
Are we allowed to add certain parts during matches?
Say our robot has returned to base, are we then allowed to add an arm to it to improve the next task?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/02/2004 00:35:07 GMT
    Wow! I think you need to do some serious reading!
    Try the UFAQ at http://www.fll-freak.com/faq and the messages in this forum.

    Your answer is yes. Within the rules, you can modify the robot to your hearts content inside the base.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Helping Hands Unlimited 12/02/2004 23:52:43 GMT
      If we build a ramp to drop on the steps, the robot
      will be on the stairs, but will we loose points if the
      ramp is touching the mat. (not the robot but the ramp)


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/03/2004 00:04:57 GMT
        Assuming this was a question...

        As per the rules and the Q&A, the robot will be considered on the top step if:

        The robot is only touching:
        1) The top stair and/or
        2) The handrail and or
        3) Another object that is itself only touching the top step and/or handrail.

        If your robot is touching your ramp and the ramp touches the mat or something else, you will not get full credit.
        The the ramp is only touching a lower stair you would get parital credit. If it touches anything else you would not get any score.

        -Skye


Discussion: Black lines on incorrect mat By: Moementum1993 11/03/2004 14:54:13 GMT
I just read and looked at the pictures about the incorrect mat with the missing black lines. It is not possible to simply extend the black line at the top of base over to the green field because it is too close to the bottom wall. It does not touch the red line like in the photo of the correct mat as it is slightly closer to the bottom wall. Besides the difference outside of base, this means that the base itself is slightly shorter in the incorrect mats - which can have an impact on starting positions, etc. I'm not trying to be nitpicky, but has anyone corrected their mats yet and what did you do?

Thanks,
Karl Krause

  1. Message by: SharonB 11/02/2004 03:05:49 GMT
    I really don't think it is possible that there are three different printings of this thing. Can you show us a picture?


    1. Message by: Disability Busters 265 11/02/2004 20:52:24 GMT
      You can find pictures on this FLL site, but outside the forum. On the left side of the screen click on USA > Challenge 2004 > Q&A. Scroll to the bottom.

      Larry Reising


    2. Message by: moe knows 11/02/2004 22:16:39 GMT
      My team and I recently read about the incorrect mat and it seams that we received one. Is it possible to correct the error made by 3M and if so how?

      Thanks,
      Moe Knows


    3. Message by: moe knows 11/02/2004 22:21:02 GMT
      My team received one of the incorrect maps and we were wondering if it is at all possible to fix the error made by 3M. Has any one fixed their mats and if so, how.

      Thanks,
      Moe Knows


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/02/2004 22:36:53 GMT
        1) It is my understanding that 3M did not do the actual printing this year. Therefore I do not think the problem should be attributed to them!

        2) Read the Q&A for the solution
        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14200

        -Skye


    4. Message by: Moementum1993 11/03/2004 03:52:11 GMT
      The mat we have is the same as the incorrect picture. Let me try to ask my question differently - I think the pictures show the point well. On the correct mat, the black line at the top of base extends to the right and touches the red line around the ball court. On the incorrect mat, extending the thick black line at the top of base (per instructions) would cover the thin black line such that thin line would be under the top edge of the extended thick line. The result is a noticeable white space between the extended black line from base and the red line of the ball court. This white space is not present on the correct mat. I don't think this is significant in itself, but it indicates that the height of the base is different on the two mats by the width of the gap between the red and extended black lines (~0.8cm). Another way to see this is by looking at the word "BASE" in the two pictures. The distance between the top left corner of the "B" and the thick black line at the top of base is noticeably longer in the picture of the correct mat. My concern is that a team that uses the markings on the incorrect mat to determine starting positions, particularly for missions where the robot starts out at an angle, might get unexpected results if they encountered a correct mat at a tournament due to the different base dimensions even if they extended the thick black line per the instructions. Hopefully this makes sense - appreciate any thoughts.

      Karl


      1. Message by: SharonB 11/03/2004 07:03:31 GMT
        Please measure the inside of the base (white area) as accurately as you can, and report back. Someone with a correct mat, please do the same.

        Let's measure and see if the bases are different.


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/03/2004 13:46:30 GMT
          Good mat measured from inside edge to inside edge.
          17+1/2 by 20+11/16 +- 1/16

          -Skye


        2. Message by: Moementum1993 11/03/2004 14:54:13 GMT
          Incorrect mat = 17 5/16 x 20 3/4 (+/- 1/16).

          Karl


Discussion: Major RCX Problem By: rustyengineers155 01/31/2005 02:56:26 GMT
Our RCX seems to be dying. Occasionally it will not turn on, and the only way to get it to turn on is to remove a battery or two and put them back in. Then all of a sudden we will get power, but then we'll have to reinstall firmware.
Then the RCX will work for a while and we'll have to do the same thing all over again. It may be the battery contacts but they seem to be ok.
Any suggestions?
If it does need to be replaced who do you recommend I go through?
Thanks,
Paul Tagher
Coach, Rusty Engineers

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/07/2004 20:43:13 GMT
    I have have similar problems with one of our RCX's. We stoped trusting it for competition robots. I have not had a chance to open it up and look for an obvious defect. Since our RCX would not turn OFF, I do not suspect a broken or bad battery connection, or dislodged battery. It might be a momentary power glitch that puts the firmware out of whack.

    If it is in warentee,LEGO is great at shipping a new unit out. If it is not, PITSCO is the place to buy a replacement.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Robomonkeys345 11/09/2004 19:48:11 GMT
      We get the same problem with both of our older RCX's. It is due to loose battery contacts. The battery makes contact until you bump the bot just right and then there goes the firmware. I've fixed it by "adjusting" the battery contacts on any loose batteries. It's a tricky procedure and can result in a broken contact if you bend it out too much. If it's not usable the way it is, you have nothing to loose so go for it. Get a small screwdriver and gently pry up the loose contacts until battery fits snugly.

      Good luck!
      Charlie


    2. Message by: Robo Rockets 01/31/2005 01:47:23 GMT
      Any new info on the random failure of the RCX. With 1 week until our state tournament our RCX 2.0 (purchased Sept 04) is randomly failing to turn on or respond to button pushing. Ideas solutions appreciated.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/31/2005 02:56:26 GMT
        Power glitches can corrupt the firmware just enough to cause major problems. Have you made sure that the batteries are in the holder tight? Loose batteries are bad.

        If the batteries are not loose, then I would suspect the spring connections of the battery box to the circuit board. Strangly these are not soldered but just held in place with a spring connector. You can get problems if these get out of wack. Opening up the RCX is not for the faint at heart. You would be better trying to borrow a replacement for the tournament.

        -Skye


Discussion: Stratigic objects By: Beach Street Robotechs3328 11/30/2004 22:24:52 GMT
What are strategic objects and how can they be used? What are some example of them? Thanks a bunch!!!!

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/08/2004 22:57:29 GMT
    Strategic objects are objects made out of Lego bricks that are used by your robot to accomplish one or more of the tasks. They could be platforms to set things on, arms, etc.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: Beach Street Robotechs3328 11/23/2004 22:53:34 GMT
      Would a ramp be a strategic object? Our team is debating building one and we are not sure if this is allowed.
      Thank you!


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/23/2004 23:07:18 GMT
        Anything that you build out of LEGO that is not connected to the RCX or is actively being pushed by the RCX is a strategic object. A ramp while being pushed out the the platform is part of the ROBOT. When the robot stops pushing it, it becomes a strategic object.

        A ramp is a resonable strategy. The only thing you must be careful of is not to be touching any strategic objects at the end of the match IF the strategic object is touching something other than the platorm/handrail.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Beach Street Robotechs3328 11/30/2004 22:24:15 GMT
          Can the strategic object be placed directly on the feild or does it have to start out in the base?


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/30/2004 22:24:52 GMT
            Must start out in the base.

            -Skye


    2. Message by: Beach Street Robotechs3328 11/24/2004 22:44:28 GMT
      Also, does the TEAM have to put the ramp there before the competition or does the ROBOT have to do so as part of the task?


    3. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/25/2004 00:13:22 GMT
      The robot.
      Monica


Discussion: "play ball" question By: brown1369 11/15/2004 20:02:22 GMT
One of my teams is wondering if the ball can be held above the center basket with a platform they built or if the ball has to be dropped into the basket.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/08/2004 23:38:07 GMT
    From the mission statements:

    i Your color Ball in the center ring is worth points to your team only.

    I would think that ABOVE is not IN. IN assumes being surronded by something else. I may be wrong, but I would guess that will be the answer you get from FIRST.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: LegoManiacs2004 11/15/2004 20:02:22 GMT
      In certainly means in and not above. But the idea of a platform somehow containing the ball while it is in the basket is interesting. Perhaps such an attachment could help prevent having the ball "de-scored" or removed from the white hoop by another team, which has been deemed a perfectly legal move by Scott Evans.


Discussion: multiple missions By: cowboys1436 11/10/2004 16:48:59 GMT
Can we run all the missions at once with one robot? Or can we run them separately? If we can run them separately can we use a different robot for each mission?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/10/2004 00:29:41 GMT
    The robot is defined as the RCX and anything connected to it. You may only bring one RCX to the table to compete (as per the rules). So in one way you may only have one robot (one RCX), but that robot configuration can be changed during the match. You can add and subtract gizmos as the match advances.

    You may do as little or as much as you want in each outing from base.

    Sounds like you need to read the following documents:
    Rules: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14150
    Field Setup: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14160
    Missions: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14190
    Q&A: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14200
    UFAQ http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

    -Skye


    1. Message by: fsa3847 11/10/2004 16:48:59 GMT
      one robot. But u can run different missions at different times.


Discussion: Angle Sensor By: F.L.I.2989 12/22/2004 04:55:42 GMT
F.L.I. doesn't understand what the angle sensor does and how to use it. This sensor is not in the training missions. Can we even use it in this competition? We are confused and would be very happy if you would give us some info on the angle sensor.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/11/2004 17:44:51 GMT
    FLI,
    The angle sensor is also known as the rotation sensor. It is an important sensor to understand. If you look at it, you will seen an axle hole. The sensor will count how much that axle rotates. Each time the axle turns one revolution, the count will increase (or decrease) by 16 'ticks'. It is VERY VERY VERY handy for navigating the mat.

    It is not clear if you are using RoboLab or RIS. If you have further questions, I would suggesting posting to the proper programming area.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: ManateeMindstormers4203 11/12/2004 22:48:04 GMT
      Is the teacher allowed to touch the robot during competition, or can only the kids?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/12/2004 23:04:03 GMT
        During the competition only the kids should be running the robot. The adults should keep their hands off!

        The only exception I have seen in the four years was a team that got hit by the flu. Only one kid was able to make it to the tournament. An adult stood by the team member and handed him parts as he called for them. At the time I saw this I was rather miffed to see adult help, but at the awards ceremony is was apparent why when they/he won the "Against All Odds" award. At this point he got a standing ovation.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: DSI 12/22/2004 01:24:52 GMT
      how does the angle sensor work


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/22/2004 04:36:10 GMT
        Inside the blue plastic cube is a disk that rotates with the axle. The disk has 8 slits in it. Two light beams shine onto the surface of the disk. When the slit is in the right spot, the light beam passes through the slit and hits a photo transistor on the other side. Some further electronics takes these pulses and converts them to one of four voltages. The RCX monitors these voltages to determine how many slits have gone by and in what direction.

        Now it is my guess that this is not what you had in mind. Perhaps if you could be more specific in what you are after we might be able to help you better. Specifically I would suggest telling us what programing language you are using! Are you having problems understanding what it is used for or how to write a programm to use it, or how to build it into a robot, or ...?

        -Skye


Discussion: Steering - rack & pinion By: Leggo my LEGO 1875 12/07/2004 18:03:02 GMT
Well, here we are four days from our tournament and I'm puzzling over how our fun little rack-and-pinion robot will ever be able to navigate reliably. We've got a few things worked out, but I'm concerned about the slop in the steering. It's just too sensitive. Does anyone have any rack-and-pinion advice? If only we could use two rotation sensors!

- Diane

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/16/2004 13:42:05 GMT
    Wow! In the four years I have been involved with FLL, I have never seen a rack and pinion (Ackermen) steering robot. Trying to get it to go straight would be hard. My only advice would be to gear down the pinion and gear up the rotation sensor as much as possible to increase accuracy. You might also consider using a touch sensor on the rack at the mid point. This might make a very interesting tech interview!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/16/2004 15:14:04 GMT
      You could use a touch sensor at the center to know when you the center. If you mount it vertical and have a bar that sticks out to trigger it, that always works well. As for the rotation sensor, good luck gearing it up enough to be useful. I seem to remember it is not reliable until it hits 300 rpm or higher.

      I played with one over the summer and found that a light sensor and some colored bricks worked better for locating the steering. A simple scenario would be to use the 1x1 slider bricks in a black/dark gray/med gray/light gray/white pattern. The code is more difficult, but at least your robot will know where its tires are.

      Have fun.
      Laura


    2. Message by: ilsgreen2292 11/20/2004 06:35:17 GMT
      I agree with Skye -- I think you'll have a great technical interview, too! There aren't many of these rack and pinion gears in competitions, so the judges are likely to be impressed -- and even more impressed when your team gives an accurate, enthusiatic description of how the mechanism works and how the mechanism was developed for their robot.

      At the risk of suggesting too many ideas late in the season that can't be built fast enough to get programmed into missions before your tournament . . .

      1. Gear backlash can also be a challenge with some rack and pinion set-ups, too. Placing some tension on the rack so that there is less backlash may help. I built a robot with triangle steer and a differential gear on the drive mechanism at the end of one season a few years ago [yes, it was driving me nuts that I couldn't actually build during the season, only coach, so I had to get this design out of my system ;-) ]. For that robot, I had success with a rubber band in a key spot to force the same edges of the gears to touch whether the gear was turned in either direciton and, therefore, reduce backlash on the steering gears.

      2. I also drove the steering mechanism on this robot by building and programming a stepper motor rather than relying on a sensor. The stepper motor concept controlled the pinion to one full rotation for each electical pulse sent to the motor. I have one of Ferrari's Lego Mindstorms books to thank for the stepper motor concept.

      3. I'm also not sure what gear ratios feed your rack. I haven't worked with this myself, but I understand it can be a real art in selecting a gear ration in the rack and pinion which provides both quick and reliable steering.

      Another funny thing about that robot: I discovered I had 32 hours of effort into building the robot, even with being familiar with all of the parts in the box and having coached for about 3 years at that time. After that 32 hours, I had a better appreciation of what it took to build a solid competition robot. It also made me even more encouraging and less critical of my teams and their simpler designs when I worked through some of the difficulties in this more advanced building challenge.

      Good luck to your team!

      - Mark Beitz, now finished coaching 7 teams in 5 years


    3. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/07/2004 18:03:02 GMT
      Here is a cool sterring mechanism:

      http://www.philohome.com/steercar/steeringcar.htm

      -Skye


Discussion: Jigs and positioning devices By: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 11/20/2004 19:16:37 GMT
Is it legal for us to put a tag on our jigs, so the kids know which jig is for which mission? we have about 3 jigs made that we can use for all the missions.

  1. Message by: SMART 1 11/17/2004 22:32:30 GMT
    As long as the tag is made out of lego. Otherwise no.

    - Peter


    1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 11/20/2004 18:22:51 GMT
      Can we put a marker, mark on the jig. Perhaps on the underside?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/20/2004 19:16:25 GMT
        As per the rules, marker can be used for identification purposes only.

        -Skye


Discussion: Wanted - Field setup kit By: Blue802 11/25/2004 18:09:47 GMT
Now that tournaments are underway and some of the regionals have been completed, I'm hoping that somewhere a team is finished with thier field setup. I'd like to buy a complete field setup, all the LEGO parts and the matt. If anyone out there has a set they would be willing to part with, I'm interested in purchasing it. Ideally, it would be someone in the Chicagoland/South Bend corridor, but I'm willing to have it shipped.

If you have a set, you can contact me at robots@f3p.com.

Thanks,

Jon Gilchrist
Blue 802

Discussion: Battery Box By: MindStormTroopers 11/27/2004 19:48:33 GMT
Are we allowed to bring a Lego battery box to the table in edition to the RCX?

  1. Message by: SharonB 11/27/2004 19:48:33 GMT
    I would say no, especially no if it has batteries in it. But what would you use it for?


Discussion: Play Ball Strategies By: Crew2k4_871 12/01/2004 22:07:51 GMT
Hi,
I was just wondering what some of the ideas for getting the ball in the hoop other teams used. We used an arm type thing.

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/30/2004 15:31:40 GMT
    There is a very long thread on ways to do this in the

    FLL International Forum -> UNITED STATES -> [for American members] Rules and Missions Questions -> Play Ball

    area.
    Have fun...


    1. Message by: Crew2k4_871 12/01/2004 22:07:51 GMT
      Thanks!


Discussion: Water in Pneumatic By: Siouxland778 12/04/2004 21:14:29 GMT
Is it legal to use water instead of air in the pneumatic system?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/04/2004 21:00:58 GMT
    Wow! That is the first time I have seen this question asked!

    I am quite sure that the answer would have to be no. A pneumatics system is not closed. The water in the tank would have to go someplace. In this case it would be on the mat. That would be damaging the field and hence would not be legal.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Siouxland778 12/04/2004 21:08:43 GMT
      If the system doesn't leak will it be legal?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/04/2004 21:14:29 GMT
        That would have to be answered by FIRST. I will stick my neck out and say the answer will probably be no. LEGO sells a pneumatic system so pneumatic parts are legal. Replace it with water and you have a hydraulic system.

        Send an email to: flltech@usfirst.org. Include the word challenge in the subject line.

        -Skye


Discussion: rotation sensor and braking By: SJBMOE2288 01/10/2005 15:40:57 GMT
We have set our rotation sensor to stop at 53.
It is overshooting and stopping at 88.
How can we get the program to stop the rotation sensor at exactly 53.

pS: any basic information on rotation sensors will be greatly appreciated.

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/07/2005 02:46:32 GMT
    You can't. There are some ways to make it better, for one thing, never use the = operator. Both RIS and Robolab watch the sensors, but not always. So if you are looking for 53 it may be that the rcx. reads the rotation sensor at 50 and again at 56, so your robot will never have the sensor = 53.

    If you absolutely need to stop at 53, gear the motor to the rotation sensor so you are getting as many rotations per minute as possible, the watch for greater than 45 and slow down then watch for 50 ten slow down ten watch for 53.

    Remember the slower the rotation sensor goes the less accurate it is.

    Hope this helps.

    Laura


    1. Message by: Wildcats2263 01/08/2005 02:54:08 GMT
      Also make sure you're braking the motors, not coasting.
      I did try an experiment once across my kitchen floor doing as Laura suggested, slowing down every 10 rotations or so. The overall speed of the robot changed very little, I believe due to the momentum of the system. I had two robots with different programming and they hit the wall at very close to the same time. I didn't look at the accuracy of the rotation sensor, just speed. Also, the results on a mat may be very different.
      For good general rotation sensor info read Building Lego Robots for First Lego League at http://www.hightechkids.org/hightechkids/download/BLRforFLL-Version1.3.pdf
      Monica


    2. Message by: SJBMOE2288 01/08/2005 18:42:05 GMT
      Thanks Laura and Monica. We had some luck by placing the rotation sensor directly on the rear axle instead of transferring the rotation with another gear. This makes our axle a little wider, but it seems to be more accurate.

      Ken


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/10/2005 15:40:35 GMT
        One more thing, if possible, let the rotation sensor float on the axle. Um, don't rigidly mount it, just constrain it from flopping around or falling off. They don't like to have any binding put on them.

        In your solution you put the rotation sensor outside the robot on the axle. if your robot is heavy, the axle at that point will be pointing up slightly. So if rigidly mounted to the robot, it could cause the rotation sensor to become unhappy.

        Laura


Discussion: HUGE PROBLEM By: MindStormTroopers 01/13/2005 23:58:41 GMT
Does anyone here know the difference between RCX version 1.0 and 2.0? I know that the 1.0 RCX comes with the 1.0 and 1.5 RIS kits, and the 2.0 RCX comes with the 2.0 kit. I have three 1.0 RCXs and one 2.0 RCX. I*m asking because I just had a freak incident with my 2.0 RCX and I think it*s broken. It just decided one day to only half do all of the programs. The Robot always had a nervous breakdown halfway into the program and just stopped. The first half worked. The shorter programs it did all the way though, I only had trouble on longer programs. I noticed that it had somehow lost half of its firmware (probably a side effect of something else).

I changed batteries, Re-downloaded firmware, cleared all of the programs, and downloaded just one of the long programs to test it because I was worried that it might just be that the memory was full. None of that worked. I ended up swapping in one of my old 1.0 RCXs and it worked fine. Does anyone know what my problem is? If not, I just want to be sure that I*m not disadvantaging myself at the state competition by using a 1.0 RCX.

Thanks,
Michael

  1. Message by: Wildcats2263 01/08/2005 02:56:27 GMT
    The only difference I've found between ours is that the 1.0 has a place to plug in a power cord. Never had any difference in performance.
    Monica


    1. Message by: MindStormTroopers 01/10/2005 05:38:36 GMT
      That's true, but I've found some 1.0s that have power adapters and some that don't. One the other hand, I haven*t yet seen a 2.0 that has one. So that doesn't seem like a reason to make a totally new version. There must be some other reason.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/10/2005 13:49:24 GMT
        Version 2.0 was created for manufacturing simplification. When 1.0 stock was exausted, LEGO made a few adjustments to lower the cost of manufacturing. The removal of the power adapter was the only visible change. It was removed to prevent the return of fried RCXs from people hooking them up the wrong way.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: tigbots 01/11/2005 04:35:49 GMT
      I had a similar problem with my RCX. We made it through Regionals, but just barely. It would do quirky things and skip parts of the download (a turn or something). We qualified for state which concerned us using the same brick. It continued acting up no matter what we did so we ended up borrowing another RCX from a school that had extras. We used it in the State Tourney this past weekend with good results.

      This is the second brick that we have had a problem with. Last year we had one go bad and Lego ended up replacing it. If you call their 800-422-5346 line and ask for "technical" they ran a test with me on the line to determine the bricks "soundness". Ended up it was bad and they sent me a new one. Hope that helps.

      Coach Call


    3. Message by: MindStormTroopers 01/11/2005 17:53:12 GMT
      Ok, thanks for your help. If the only difference with the 2.0 is that it's easier to manufacture than we should be able to make it through state with a 1.0. One of our 1.0s is starting to act crazy too though. I*m going to borrow a brand new 2.0 from a friend and see how that works.


      1. Message by: 01/11/2005 18:08:16 GMT
        Deleted


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/13/2005 23:57:25 GMT
        Mindstorm Troopers:

        I'm glad to hear that you seem to have found a work-around to the problem you were having earlier with your 2.0 RCX.

        However, in our experience, an RCX does not start to "act crazy" when it starts to undergo physical failure, but either works or doesn't. This observation, coupled by the fact that you're now seeing a different RCX "act crazy" encourages me to think that there is probably something else going on in your situation other than a flaky RCX.

        In cases where we have had a "crazy RCX", one of the following was always found to be responsible:
        1. Corrupted RCX memory - Fixed by removing the batteries from the RCX, waiting for a few minutes to discharge memory, replacing batteries (make sure they're good first!) and then reloading firmware and programs.

        2. Bug in team's programs - Sometimes there's an unusual bug in the program which makes the program do something different than expected! In this case, "act crazy" was exactly what the robot was told to do...

        3. Loose or flaky wire - Check all the electrical connections. Be sure they are all fully seated. We have once had a wire that became partially shorted (wiggling the wire could change the sensor reading)

        4. Loose batteries - the NiMH batteries the Mayhem team uses are the tiniest bit shorter than traditional Alkalines. Sometimes one of the contacts will be "flattened" and odd robot behavior can result.


        I wish you the best at finding the cause of the trouble!

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Tape? RE: Program Downloads By: twistedaxles638 01/11/2005 19:29:52 GMT
We understand that the robots need to be protected from downloads of programs in the pit area.. Our kids were wondering if they can put electrical tape over the infrared sensor (yes, we know we'll need to tweek the robot competition day, but want to know nonetheless).

Thanks in advance.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/11/2005 13:49:14 GMT
    Strickly it is not allowed as the tape is not a LEGO part. Some tournaments have a house rule to allow it. You would have to contact the director to find out. Please note that many black electrical tapes are TRANSPARENT to infrared light! Your best bet is a cover made of LEGO.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: twistedaxles638 01/11/2005 13:54:33 GMT
      WOW! That was fast!! THanks, Skye.


    2. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 01/11/2005 14:46:33 GMT
      If you were allowed to use black electrical tape, as we were in our qualifier, 3M has a good tape.


    3. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/11/2005 19:29:52 GMT
      Before bothering, put the tape on and try to download something to the rcx. Most electrical tape is not ir-proof. If you want to protect your programs, do some testing at home and see what works best for your robot.

      It also turns out that the yellow material the RCX is made out of is not ir-proof. We tried covering up the face of the rcx. with a nickel shield only to find out the RCX could still be programmed.

      In the end we made a Lego shield and we never have the rcx. on unless it is running or being programmed.

      Laura


Discussion: Fork Lift By: skullbots1529 01/24/2005 14:40:53 GMT
Does anyone know how to make a forklift that can raise something in the air?

  1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 01/20/2005 03:16:12 GMT
    Depends on how you want to do it, we have one that we use two times. Each times uses a different set of forks


    1. Message by: skullbots1529 01/22/2005 23:13:02 GMT
      How do you run it. With gears or pullys?


      1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 01/24/2005 14:40:53 GMT
        It's ran with gears. Email me at drizztd2@yahoo.com, I can send you a pic.


Discussion: RCX version performance By: Robo Rockets 02/09/2005 00:57:41 GMT
Our RCX 2.0 failed last week. The replacement sent by LEGO is a 1.0. I've been told by LEGO that the 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0 are interchangable with the power port being the difference. A number of experienced coaches have told me that they find the 1.0 & 1.5 RCX do not always operate properly or cinsistently with the latest firmware and programs written for the RCX 2.0.

Today at the State event, this new older model RCX did not perform consistently or as expected when loaded with the 2.0 firmware and programs used previously on our 2.0 RCX which had failed.

Anyone have experience, positive or negative regarding the real interchangability of the various version RCX?

Ken P. Coach team 1952

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/06/2005 05:39:36 GMT
    I have not found this to be a problem. I like the older RCX due to its power jack. Makes other types of robots easy to power.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 02/06/2005 05:50:19 GMT
      Robo Rockets:

      First off, I'm sorry to hear that your team's robot didn't run at the state event today as well as it had previously in practices. I hope your team still enjoyed the tournament, and is looking forward to next year!

      However, to address your question, the team I coach has a lot of experience with using different versions of RCX. Between the team, the two coaches, and the students, we have had the occasion to use the same programs in 6 different RCX units. This is our team's third year of FLL. Of the different RCX units we have used, 2 are 1.0 (with power plug), 2 are 1.5 (labeled 1.0 without power plug) and 2 are 2.0. I have never observed any differences in behavior in the programs between the units that I could attribute to the different hardware. All are programmed with the same firmware. (Whatever is programmed with Robolab 2.5.4). We use Robolab for all programming.

      We have sometimes witnessed odd behavior on rare occasions, but I don't think this has ever been due to the 1.0/1.5 hardware. When we have seen oddness, it has always been either due to a bad program, or could be fixed by reloading firmware.

      When you say that the new older model RCX "did not perform consistently or as expected" did it seem like it was running the wrong programs completely? Or, did it seem to maybe turn a little farther, or a little shorter, or not drive quite straight, or move the arm differently, or fail to follow a line, or have trouble "seeing" the flags? The team that I coach has found that even with making multiple "identical" robots, each of them will behave quite differently, even with the exact same programs, due to a multitude of factors:
      • battery level and battery type,
      • construction (axles slightly bent, bushings tighter/looser, bricks attached a little differently or not "squeezed tight"),
      • amount of dust on wheels,
      • differences in motor strength and/or weight,
      • differences in light sensors.
      Even with careful construction and care in matching items, it is very difficult to make two "identical" robots which behave exactly the same. Even taking a robot apart and then putting it back together again "without changing anything" can result in different behavior before and afterwards.

      Without having more information, I would highly suspect that the variations you saw at the state event today were probably due to factors such as those described above, and were not due to the different RCX versions.

      Having said all this, there is a lot that can be done to make the robot missions less susceptible to such differences. These changes involve many areas, including mission strategy, programming, robot design, and robot building. Making a robot which performs consistently run after run is an extremely difficult task which would challenge even professional engineers.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

      PS: Consistent performance is what impresses me most about some team's robots. At last year's international tournament, the Wisconsin team ran 400 point rounds every time they took the table -- all 4 times! Absolutely incredible, in my opinion. However, I don't think it was a fluke - it was the result of hard work to make the robot perform consistently despite variations such as those I mentioned above.


    2. Message by: Robo Rockets 02/07/2005 01:19:57 GMT
      Thanks for the replies. We're quite used to the problems of consistent on field performance. I too marvel at how consistent some teams robots do things, especially turning! The in consistencies we noted with the earlier version RCX weren't what I'd call normal robot performance variation.

      The kids built a tricycle design this year with the two rear wheels powered and the single front driving the rotation sensor.
      For example our stairs program had the robot:

      go parallel to the wall

      stop at the proper distance (program written to error on the short side so they could start further from the end wall if needed)

      reverse the left side motor to turn the robot towards the stairs

      Since they never got a consistent 90 degree turn, they came up with a clever routine using a touch sensor alternating left & right side drive which then backed the robot into the side wall squaring it up to go straight at the stairs.

      once square against the wall the touch sensor triggered the next section of the routine to forward onto the stairs

      With that background... with the replacement RCX, during this program the cot backed up towards the wall as expected, then drove forward and backed up again. The program did no have any instructions to make the intermediate forward movement!?

      Using the original RCX 2.0 this program worked very consistently as did our behind the stairs turn & go thou the gate program (also using the back & touch turning scheme. Neither worked right with the replacement RCX, whether on our team's table or the tournament tables

      It's a shame as the kids had averaged about 270 points practicing for the state match and couldn't break 191 on the big day.

      Now that the tourney is over, I'll build a test cot and try some back to back comparisons.

      BOW, this was the 4th year for my wife & I coaching teams. 3years at middle school level with a daughter and this year a new elementary team that included our 9 year old.

      Cheers,

      Ken


    3. Message by: See-More 1298 02/09/2005 00:57:41 GMT
      Just a quick echo to Mayhem Ken - between 1 then 2 and now 3 teams, we have gone through a variety of RCX bricks - the brick itself has never been an issue and we treat them as interchangeable.

      Marie
      hoping to survive until our tournament!



Folder: Marketing, Fundraising and PR 03/03/2005 14:52:45 GMT


Discussion: T-Shirts and Merchandise By: NCaFLL 11/15/2004 18:36:50 GMT
Selling or seeking FLL related items, such as T-Shirts?
See
NCaFLL 2004 Shirt

  1. Message by: Auxilium Argonauts 101 09/20/2004 22:24:26 GMT
    what font did you use for that shirt?


    1. Message by: NCaFLL 09/20/2004 22:42:01 GMT
      The font is called Serpentine Bold. I found it on one of my Windows systems (SFB_____.TTF), but I'm not actually sure where it came from.


    2. Message by: Tweeters177 11/15/2004 18:36:50 GMT
      The kids want to sell a fundraising item with NO LIMITS on it. Is this ok? Can we do it on-line and at events?
      -Karen Sanford
      Coach Tweeters177


Discussion: FLL Logos for t-shirts By: Robonation2431 11/09/2004 03:25:06 GMT
We are thinking about using the FLL-Sports for the Mind and the FLL Robot logos on our T-shirts. (These are both shown on the firstlegoleague.org website.) How do I get these to include on our team t-shirts?

Thank you.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/27/2004 16:49:23 GMT
    Try here:

    http://www.usfirst.org/4vol/FLLresourcectr/graphics/index.html

    If what you want is not there, you may need to contact FIRST.
    You should also read the paragraph in the coaches manual on
    the proper and legal use of the logos.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Robonation2431 09/27/2004 16:59:42 GMT
      Thanks. It says the background color may be changed, but can we change to actual color of the design? For example, we don't plan to use many colors on our shirt, so can we make the design black and white?

      I was also looking for some other logos, so I'll try contacting FIRST.

      Thank you.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/27/2004 17:20:22 GMT
        Only FIRST can answer those questions.
        -Skye


    2. Message by: Robo Rovers 10/01/2004 19:58:53 GMT
      Skye,

      I have looked through the manual. Can you tell me where the paragraph on the use of the logos is located. Page number maybe. Thanks


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/01/2004 20:33:36 GMT
        I do not have the folder in front of me, but the paragraph was within the first three pages. If memory serves me, it might have even been on the title page.

        The manual I am refering to is the the No Limits folder you got from FIRST in the colorfull binder.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Robo Rovers 10/01/2004 21:35:43 GMT
          Thanks Skye,

          I skipped right over that page when searchinhg. Probably because it was the 2nd page. I assumed it would be in the one of the more detail sections.


    3. Message by: fsa3847 11/05/2004 18:28:25 GMT
      do we need to have t-shirts? If so, is there a dead-line. If so, when.

      -Good Times,
      ZackCarter925


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/05/2004 20:25:36 GMT
        You do not have to have tee-shirts. Many teams find that a common tee-shirt is a great way to show team spirit, but it is certainly not the only way. I remember one tournament where a team had a 15 foot helium derigible floating around in the gym with their logo on it!

        -Skye


    4. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/09/2004 03:16:41 GMT
      There was one tournament where instead of tshirts, one of the teams wore caps and white long-sleaved shirts.They were going for a look like they were from France.

      The idea with the tshirts is so teams can look united, but if you don't want to go to the expense of creating tshirts, there's certainly other ways to dress that wouldn't cost a thing, using whatever the students have their closets

      As far as deadlines, the day of the tournament would be when you would want to dress the same if that's what the team decided to do.

      Susan


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/09/2004 03:25:06 GMT
        Just came back from a tournament where one team was dressed as cooks. They all had aprons and those white paper chef hats. They stood out as a team as much as the teams wearing custom tee-shirts. I can only assume the costume related to their research project topic. Very cool idea.

        -Skye


Discussion: Looking for an unused team registration and challenge kit By: teddybears909 10/13/2004 02:48:49 GMT
I am looking to purchase this year's challenge kit and supporting information for use in my classroom. While I know we're beyond the point of participating in this year's competition, I have enough students to host my own.

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/08/2004 20:10:33 GMT
    Aren't they still taking registrations? Do you want the kit and registration? or just the kit?

    Laura


    1. Message by: teddybears909 10/08/2004 22:12:01 GMT
      Hi Laura,
      Thanks for your quick response. Actually, I just wanted the kit. I noticed that registration was extended through today, but my late start on this endevour has put me in a position where I cannot get the funding by the end of the day today. Plus, this will be my first time involved in this, so I suppose a dry run would be a good way to start. If you don't have any use for your challenge kit, I would gladly purchase it from you.

      Michael


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/08/2004 22:35:36 GMT
        Michael,

        I have some challenge kits from Mission Mars left-over from the Maryland tournament last year. If you are interested, it is yours for the price of postage.

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


        1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 10/08/2004 22:59:20 GMT
          How many of the mission mars kits do you have?


          1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/08/2004 23:07:45 GMT
            We have at least 6. The catch is, all the mission model pieces have been added to our "collection." If you want one, we will put it together, but it may take several (3-5)weeks to get all the pieces pulled out.

            RoboManiacs
            Team #9
            www.robomaniacs.org


            1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 10/08/2004 23:17:00 GMT
              Well let me know, I have one kit. It would be nice to have a second. Then my kids in the off season can practice with 2 tables. That way i can get some of them useing Robolab for next year. They could compete better against each other.


            2. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 10/10/2004 17:43:16 GMT
              When this season is over would you be interested in selling a No Limits kit also? Please contact me at Drizztd2@yahoo.com. Thank You Alford Stewart


    2. Message by: teddybears909 10/10/2004 06:44:06 GMT
      That sounds great if it's not going to be too much trouble. If there's anything I know about, it's how fast a Lego block collection can become a giant multicolored mess. The time you quoted is perfectly fine. In fact, I need this by the middle of November, so 5 weeks would even work for me. My email is MichaelS@Harker.org if you'd like to contact me. Thanks for the help.


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/11/2004 03:46:31 GMT
        I have 3 teams that I have registered for this year. I'll sell 2 of the field sets if anyone wants them. I kept the box for the mat so that can be shipped to.

        I have a set from last year if anyone wants that too. Mat also.

        Laura Melnik


        1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 10/11/2004 21:14:50 GMT
          I might be interested in a set after the season is over, contact me drizztd2@yahoo.com. Thank You


        2. Message by: teddybears909 10/12/2004 19:21:42 GMT
          Laura, that sounds good too. Please contact me at MichaelS@Harker.org to work out the details. I only need one set.


    3. Message by: Robotik816 10/13/2004 02:48:49 GMT
      Laura, I would be interested in purchasing a kit for this year's challenge. Please contact me at knope@mindspring.com. Thanks!

      Muriel


Discussion: Fundraising By: Beach Street Robotechs3328 11/19/2004 03:58:52 GMT
What are some effective and approved methods of fundraising?

  1. Message by: IAFLLModerator 10/15/2004 22:24:50 GMT
    You could ask local companies/industry to sponsor your team and you may wish to ask an engineer or technology professional from their company to mentor your team. Make sure you note them in your PR materials or on your t-shirts (if you have one). This has been effective for many of our teams. I have heard of teams raising the money through work, such as raking leaves, washing cars, etc. On our website, we have some fundraising ideas related to FLL (www.isufll.org), if you wish to take a look. Good luck!


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/15/2004 22:46:02 GMT
      -We do bake sales. It's not my favorite thing, but the moms like it. ($300 in one day average) If you go to a Wal-Mart they will double your fund raising.
      -Some of the local food places that don't have servers (Burger King) will let the kids bus tables for tips. ($200-400)
      -Car washes do well. ($100-300)
      -My favorite - We sell community support to local businesses. For a $500 donation to our team we will provide 10 very willing kids to do community service for a weekend day. We have been garbage collectors at Sea-Fest, entertainment for the kids a the early intervention center and this weekend we are doing gardening at an retirement center. Companies like this one.

      Hope this helps.
      Laura


    2. Message by: Scopekidz987 10/19/2004 23:14:20 GMT
      Well, you could buy a box of candy or like something similar to that and sell stuff for a dollar. I suppose that would make money, you could also do dog walking since some neighborhoods have tons of dogs, like ours. I hope that helps! :-) - Michelle


    3. Message by: Beach Street Robotechs3328 10/23/2004 18:29:58 GMT
      You could host a viedeo game a thon. Another good method is gather a bunch of people and volunteer at a library, supermarket,etc. for a certain amount of money.That should raise some money.
      -Shanzey


      1. Message by: tigerbots3333 10/28/2004 20:19:56 GMT
        thanx for the idea. we'll take it into consideration.n


    4. Message by: tigerbots3333 10/28/2004 20:18:27 GMT
      does anyone have any ideas about raising money


    5. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/01/2004 09:06:52 GMT
      We always sold Chickfila calendars. The free food coupons made them a good sale, since people would often buy multiple calendars so that each member of their family would have a coupon each month.

      We also sold ad space on the back of team tshirts. If an organzation gave at least $100, then both the company logo and name appeared. If at least $50, then the company name.

      As far as bake sales, what I've heard some groups say is that it works better not to put a price on items, instead ask for donations and you will make more money.


    6. Message by: Tweeters177 11/15/2004 18:44:23 GMT
      The kids have a cool fundraising idea for an item to sell with NO LIMITS on it. Is it ok to sell this on line and at events?
      Karen Sanford
      Coach Tweeters177


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/15/2004 19:44:46 GMT
        You had better contact FIRST.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Tweeters177 11/19/2004 03:08:21 GMT
          Thanks, Skye,
          I did and am waiting for feedback. By the way, do you know if we need to have permission to use FLL or NO LIMITS on our T-shirt/uniforms?
          -Karen


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/19/2004 03:58:52 GMT
            The very first page in the coaches handbook (colorfull NoLimits 3 ring binder) has a description of what you can or can't do with the FLL/FIRST logo. I can't remember if they included info on the NoLimits logo. Being sensible and forgetting the lawyers, I would think that as long as you used the logos in an appropriate way and were not profiting from the use you should be fine. Of course a call to FIRST might be best to cover your rear!

            -Skye


Discussion: Better Late than Never (New PR Video) By: warningchokinghazard320 01/20/2005 08:02:40 GMT
Hi all!

In the "Better Late than Never" category, I finally put together an FLL promo video using "Mission Mars" footage. (In Illinois, we are still competing and won' have our state tournament until Jan 22)

For those interested, check it out at http://www.wildstang.org/fll/video/

It's big, at 20MB, but I hope you enjoy it. A 2002 City Sights video is also available.

Enjoy. Feedback appreciated.

Dave April
Coach Team #320 Warning - Choking Hazard!

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/11/2005 16:03:32 GMT
    FANTASTIC!

    I loved the video. The synchronization to the music was amazing. Can we can use this video for recruitment purposes?

    -Skye


    1. Message by: warningchokinghazard320 01/11/2005 17:01:50 GMT
      Thanks Skye! I was really happy with how it turned out. Especially since this year, I used lowly Microsoft Moviemaker rather than Adobe Premiere like I did last year. My son had a movie project at school and I wanted to find an easier to use tool for him and so I experimented with this for my movie as well. I was pleased with how the music sync turned out - Premiere has better tools for sound sync and frame marking, but this particular piece of music had pretty obvious transitions.

      As to using it for recruitment, it's OK by me, but as you know from your own work and the legal hoops you had to jump through, it probably can't be considered as anything other than a personal project since I don't have a release on the music.

      By the way, the song is "Outta Gear" (how appropriate) by the band Los Straitjackets - a fantastic surf guitar band out of Nashville (yes, surf guitarists out of Nashville!)

      Dave


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/11/2005 17:09:18 GMT
        Boy do I understand about the music issue! I just wanted to show it to parents interested in having their kids join a team. Not for sale, not for distribution, but just a private thing.

        Thanks for the gret work.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: warningchokinghazard320 01/11/2005 17:13:42 GMT
          That is the purpose for which I created it, so I'd say definitely feel free to use it for that purpose!

          Thank you also for your terrific movie work this year and all the knowledge sharing and FLL promotion you do for everyone.

          Dave


    2. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/11/2005 19:46:03 GMT
      Wow. Those are the coolest videos. and the music just makes them even better.

      Great job!
      Laura


    3. Message by: SMART 1 01/11/2005 20:00:06 GMT
      The 2002 one was also very cool. I like the ending. I guess we've all been there before.

      - Peter


    4. Message by: tigbots 01/11/2005 20:17:34 GMT
      Great Video!!

      I was wondering if there are more videos of the missions. I saw some one time, but cannot remember where they were. Does any one know? Skye?

      Greg Call


    5. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/11/2005 20:43:54 GMT
      I have no videos for public consumption. Mindstorms Mayhem has (had?) some videos at their website http://www.mindstormsmayhem.org

      I think I have seen some video at the North California site at one time.

      -Skye


    6. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/11/2005 21:31:07 GMT
      We just got one on our site. It takes a long time to download, 9meg or so.
      This is the final round out the Florida State Competition. And yes it was a 400.

      Laura
      http://www.aero-kids.com/thunderbolts400.wmv


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/11/2005 21:43:16 GMT
        This is the most stressful video I have watched in some time! At the rate the first points were scored, I was figuring that Domino could deliver you a pizza before the end of the round. As it was, that last switch took 33 seconds and the drive out to the stairs took 45! My heart was pounding the whole time.

        Perhaps next time you could gear down the robot a little more? You did have 10 seconds to spare!

        Great job.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: RoboManiacs 01/11/2005 22:49:33 GMT
        WOW!! Somebody better gear down the radar for that one. Amazing run but excrutiating to watch. I can't believe that none of the team members have imploded waiting for "ticky" to get to the stairs.

        Incredible run!!! Congratulations.

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


    7. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/11/2005 21:58:40 GMT
      Yes, if you play the video with the sound on you will hear a lack of "Thunderbolts Thunderbolts" as the little slug creeps towards the stairs.

      It is a killer to watch, the team gets 355 points in 52 seconds then we wait. The one blond kid always does housekeeping instead of getting Ticky going.

      They tried to gear Ticky to go faster, but it would not go up the stairs.

      Oh well. We had a blast!
      Laura


    8. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 01/11/2005 22:20:03 GMT
      I have some video of our missions, 1 at a time. Just haven't tried to make the kids nervous and do a whole round. We have been haveing enough trouble without extra stress.


    9. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 01/12/2005 07:53:18 GMT
      Here's a link to a Mission Mars "Highlights" video I put together last year:

      http://home.comcast.net/~poudre-fll/Videos/Mission_Mars_Highlights.wmv

      It's pretty big (~10MB) and about 4 1/2 minutes long.

      I think it's really neat to see lots of different solutions. In fact, I would be willing to assemble a DVD if people are interested. I would even trade, send me a DVD with your clip (full resolution DVD mpeg or AVI) and when I get a bunch together I'll send you a DVD of the collection.

      I'd only be able to take about 30 clips or so (120 minutes on a DVD @ 4 minutes per.)

      If interested please contact me at: courtney@frii.com

      Hope you enjoy my clip.

      BTW, the background music is generated using "SmartSound" on Pinnacle Studio 7. As far as I know there are no distribution restrictions on that - at least nothing listed in the on-line documents.

      Cheers,
      Courtney


      1. Message by: warningchokinghazard320 01/12/2005 16:19:29 GMT
        Nice job, Courtney! It certainly does show a good variety of solutions. I like the part where the girls with the antenna on their heads dance around excitedly after they get in the crater!

        Dave


    10. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 01/20/2005 07:52:15 GMT
      Just got a chance to borrow a computer with a fast enough connection to see the videos -- IMPRESSIVE! And I could see each one serving its own purpose.

      I could see using Dave's clip at a PTA meeting where I have 3 minutes to convince people who have never seen FLL that this is worth checking out.

      Laura's video would be great for prospective or rookie teams that want to see what a REALLY GOOD complete run looks like.

      And Courtney's could be used to show kids to approach a problem from many angles and try lots of different solutions.

      Great stuff! Thanks for sharing.
      Yolande


Discussion: Budgeting for World Festival By: rustyengineers155 02/21/2005 18:46:11 GMT
Our team is fortunate enough to have qualified for the World Festival. There are not official hotels, etc. set up just yet but I thought it would be a good idea to start our fundraising efforts and set a financial goal for the team.
OUCH!
Does anyone have any experience from last year on how much the hotels and food costs while at the event?
Thanks,
Paul Tagher
Coach, Rusty Engineers, Kentucky

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/18/2005 02:46:15 GMT
    RustyEngineers,

    First, congratulations on winning your state Director's Award and qualifying for the World Festival! You are now in for a wild ride!

    Last year at this time, when Mindstorms Mayhem won the NH Director's Award, I was absolutely overwhelmed with the planning to attend the International Tournament. We had no idea how to raise enough funds for the trip, much less deal with travel plans, hotel accomodations, chaperones, medical insurance forms, etc. Somehow, however, we learned enough from other teams to muddle through. About midway through the process, I hoped to write an addendum for Skye's Coaches Handbook to help future Director's Award winning teams prepare for the International Tournament. Alas, other aspects of life got in the way, and the addendum was never written.

    However, I can at least answer your immediate question! Last year, our team, traveling from NH, had tournament-related costs as shown below. Our costs were for 14 individuals to attend the tournament, arriving on Wednesday afternoon, and leaving on Sunday morning. (The 14 people were 10 team members, 2 coaches, 1 mentor, and 1 adult chaperone.) We also had 7 other team supporters travel with the team (parents, siblings, etc.) but their costs are not included in the below listing.


    The above prices were for air fare from Boston to Atlanta, purchased at a group rate with the Nashua, NH and Merrimack, NH FRC teams. We were fortunate to be able to piggyback with them for air travel. They also paid for motor coaches to take us from the local high school to/from Boston on each end of the trip, as well as for motor coaches to take us from Atlanta's airport to the Omni Hotel. (Thus, we received the motor coach transportation for free!)

    The hotel costs above are for the FIRST packages available through THS. These are not yet available for this year. Last year's price for four nights (Wed -> Sun) was $275 per person with 4 per room and would have been $325 per person with 3 per room. Included in that package were coupons for use at the Georgia Dome for breakfast ($8) and lunch ($10) for 3 days (Thur -> Sat), and entrance to the Saturday Night Wrap-Up Social. We stayed in the Omni Hotel (the nearest hotel to the Georgia Dome) and had nice, although expensive, accomodations.

    Our other meals (dinners Wed, Thu, & Fri; breakfast and lunch on Sunday; Saturday night's dinner was at "Wrap-Up Social") cost us a total of $496.53. One of our dinners was "free" to us, as one team family had friends in Atlanta who invited the whole team plus supporters to their house for dinner! One night was at a regular restaurant (expensive), and the other was take-out pizza eaten in Centennial Park on paper plates with drinks and munchies from a convenience store.

    The "misc expenses" included some fundraising mailings (even though most of those costs were donated) plus tournament giveaways. The "T-shirts" cost was for setup and printing of new T-shirts for the team, which included our major sponsor logos on the back.

    We are planning for a similar budget this year, although I believe that we will see significant increases as we are not able to piggyback travel with the FRC teams this year, causing our air fare expenses to be higher. Also, we won't have "free" motor coaches this year. Hotel costs will surely have increased, plus there is also the new $1000 World Festival registration fee.

    I anticipate that our budget this year could easily top $10,000 for a team-sponsored group of 14 (10 team members, 2 coaches, 1 mentor, and 1 female chaperone.)

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/18/2005 02:58:59 GMT
      Part Two -- I have also heard that this year's FIRST lodging packages may no longer include the breakfast and lunch coupons for use at the Georgia Dome. This may enable teams to save a little bit of money by picnicing outside with food they brought. However, the Georgia Dome staff did not permit bringing in outside food, and the prices for concessions were expensive. ($8 per person for breakfast and $10 per person for lunch were about right.) I am concerned that students will balk at the high prices if they do not have the "free coupons" and thus may avoid eating rather than pay high prices with real money. One nice thing about the breakfast/lunch coupons is that it encouraged the kids to eat well -- they definitely needed the calories for the high-energy event!

      The fundraising was a lot of work, and there were many details to be worked out for the travel arrangements. However, the event was an incredible experience for all who attended. We look forward to meeting your team in Atlanta!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/20/2005 16:23:01 GMT
        Congratulations! Ken is right, it is an awesome experience to go to the worlds. Our budget was very similar to Kens. As for how we did the fund raising:

        -Bake sales at Wal-Mart (they match 1-1 up to $500)
        -Corporate Donations in exchange for community service hours.
        -Car washes (might be to cold where you live)

        We were fortunate enough to go to the invitational the last two years in a row. The first year, we did a bake sale each week, I hate bake sales. The second year we were fortunate to have 2 major corporate sponsors and we did only 1 bake sale (wal-mart because they match.) It was a long path, but the look on the kids faces when they walked into the Astrodome the first year was worth every penny.

        Good luck.
        Laura


      2. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 01/20/2005 19:57:48 GMT
        Thanks, Ken, for the detailed breakdown. The only cost we're still needing estimates on is transportation between the airport and the hotel region (I'm assuming most of the hotels are close to the Dome). Is shuttle bus service generally available, and if so, about how much per person? Otherwise, does anyone know the approximate cost of taxi fare? Or is reasonable public transport (train or bus) available?

        Yolande


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/20/2005 20:04:55 GMT
          Atlanta has good public transportation. The subway system (MARTA) runs from the airport to near most of the hotels. For their web pages see http://www.itsmarta.com/

          We haven't figured out that part of our transport either. It may even be the case that the hotel at which you're staying will have free airport shuttle service. (We haven't investigated that yet ourselves, but it may be an option.)

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    2. Message by: 01/18/2005 04:05:43 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: rustyengineers155 01/20/2005 02:27:03 GMT
      Thanks for the advice, I had estimated very close to what you had listed. Needless to say, the kids have 5-star taste.
      Regarding sponsorships, we will start soliciting them within a couple weeks. My feeling is we will have many that would put their name on our t-shirt, web-site, etc., for $100 or so, but finding a larger sponsor will be more difficult. Any advice on dividing up sponsorship opportunities with regards to sponsorship dollars?
      Thanks again,
      and we are so excited to finally meet many of our idols (we're talking about you forum leaders!)
      Paul


    4. Message by: 01/20/2005 16:20:45 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/20/2005 16:22:16 GMT
      The thunderbolts, and I think I saw one from Kens team, have brochures that we use to solicit money from companies. I'll try to attach the word doc from 2002 so you can see it. Our approach was to do a mass mailing to companies in the area, then have parents take a brochure to the AR department of their companies.

      Once the mailing had time to get around, we followed up with calls to the companies to ask if they had received the request. In some cases, especially for technology companies, we were asked (or suggested) to bring in the board and perform both technical and research.

      It is a long process, but you have the time now.

      Laura


      1. Message by: 01/20/2005 16:45:39 GMT
        Deleted


        1. Message by: 01/20/2005 16:51:03 GMT
          Deleted


      2. Message by: 01/20/2005 16:46:07 GMT
        Deleted


      3. Message by: 01/20/2005 17:01:02 GMT
        Deleted


      4. Message by: 01/20/2005 17:01:35 GMT
        Deleted


      5. Message by: 01/20/2005 17:02:14 GMT
        Deleted


      6. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/20/2005 17:05:28 GMT
        Mindstorms Mayhem also has a pair of brochures that we are glad to share with the FLL community, but I'm having problems getting my browser to co-operate with posting the files as attachments. Maybe I'll see if I can get the files onto our web site and post links to them here, rather than posting the files as attachments...

        Stay tuned, they'll be coming soon.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      7. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/21/2005 18:39:09 GMT
        Fundraising Brochures of Mindstorms Mayhem.

        Following Laura's lead on this one, I'll post our fundraising brochures from last year and this year for others to use for ideas. As mentioned above, I've finally given up on getting these brochures attached to forum postings, and have instead put the brochures on the team's web server.

        Mindstorms Mayhem-Brochure-2004.pdf is the brochure we put together last year. In order to really see what it looks like as a "tri-fold brochure," you would need to print it out. The "What did you learn from these?" is the front cover, and the "Team Mindstorms Mayhem" column giving team history is the inside flap.

        We distributed these to nearly 100 prospective sponsors last year with a cover letter and attention-getting giveaway (a Lego minifig wearing a "Mindstorms Mayhem" shirt). We distributed by hand from a student if possible. We ended up with about 35 sponsors which covered all the costs for our trip with enough funds remaining to pay for this year's registration.

        In the time since last year, our FIRST-involvement has expanded to include a high school FRC team and an elementary school-age JFLL team. Accordingly, we have updated (well, actually nearly completely rewritten) our Mayhem-Brochure-2005.pdf to describe all three teams. Our newly-formed non-profit organization, MAYHEM, is also introduced. We created this organization in order to serve as a non-profit fundraising vehicle for the FRC and FLL teams we support. Having 501(c)3 status (or being associated with a public school) is practically a pre-requisite for acquiring corporate sponsorships. We worked around the problem last year by going through our local public school district for fundraising. Since confirmation of our non-profit status from the IRS is still pending, we are again using such an arrangement this year until all the IRS paperwork is completed.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


        1. Message by: rustyengineers155 01/21/2005 19:12:42 GMT
          Another great brochure and tool. I guess that's one of the advantages to being rookies at the World's as you guys have done a lot of the work for us.
          I'm having trouble printing the brochure though. It keeps coming up a blank page. I'll keep trying.
          Thanks again.
          Paul


        2. Message by: rustyengineers155 02/02/2005 04:02:51 GMT
          Ken:
          The 2004.pdf link has been broken, apparently because your new web site is up and running. I was looking for a copy of your 2004 brochure. Can you email me a copy of it?
          topbrandsingolf@zoomtown.com
          Thanks,
          Paul Tagher
          Coach, Rusty Engineers


        3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 02/02/2005 06:17:14 GMT
          RustyEngineers: Sorry about the broken links! When the web pages were updated last week for the No Limits info, the brochures were lost in the shuffle. The earlier links should now work! I've also repeated them below for "ease-of-finding"...--ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


          1. Message by: rustyengineers155 02/02/2005 15:16:10 GMT
            Perfect.
            Thanks again,
            Paul


    6. Message by: rustyengineers155 01/20/2005 17:57:38 GMT
      Thanks for posting the brochure.
      Our idea was to do something similar with a DVD of our table performance and research project, then ask if they would be interested in seeing a live performance.
      My initial thought was not to do a mass mailing but to directly solicit those companies that were either in the technology field or those that we knew someone who knew someone, etc. I guess you never know who is willing to offer support unless you ask.
      Ours is a privately funded team and has not set up a checking account or anything related to being a non profit organization (although I can certainly verify we are not a profit making entity!) I'll have to look into where to start on that as well.


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/21/2005 22:57:47 GMT
        A DVD or CDROM would be a good companion to a cover letter or brochure. You definitely want something which will immediately capture interest and make the viewer want to go the next step (open the brochure, then actually read it, then actually put the CD/DVD into their player, etc.)

        We did not do a mass mailing, but rather hand-delivered the letters by the students. An adult would take a couple of the students with them (wear the team shirts!) with brochures and cover letters. They also brought along a robot to show anybody that wanted to ask! Just put a simple program in it to drive a square or follow the line on the "Mindstorms Test Pad." Visiting prospective sponsors in person might seem like a manipulative approach, but it's just so much harder to "say no" to a middle schooler standing in front of you, wide-eyed, telling you about this cool robot they built, then it is to simply ignore a letter that came in a blind mailing. It's also one thing to open a letter, and a completely different thing to see a middle schooler bubbling over about their interest in building and programming a real robot!

        Along those lines, I can share one interesting story from last year:
        My wife and my son had gone in to one company's "public relations office" somewhere on a middle floor of the building, and had just learned that the company had a policy of no donations for our kind of activities. On the way out, my wife and son stepped into the down elevator wearing their "Mayhem" shirts; my son was carrying the robot in an open-topped storage box. There was a VP already in the elevator on his way out of the building. He saw my son with the box, and asked him "What is that you have there?" Well, to make the long story short, that company ended up on the team's list of sponsors...


        I would highly encourage you to pursue sponsorship from local and statewide businesses. For samples of fundraising materials, see the sponsors page on our team website for our cover letter. (You'll need to click through to "Becoming A Sponsor.") Also, you can find our fundraising brochures linked from a message further above in this topic.

        When approaching sponsors, don't be afraid to shoot for the moon! If you have an interested sponsor, ask if they'll be a "matching sponsor" who will match gifts up to say $5000. If you can find one sponsor like that, a $10K fundraising target is well within reach! Finding a sponsor like that is not particularly likely in a few months, but one never knows. You can't possibly get such a sponsor if you never ask! I heard last year of at least a couple teams finding huge sponsorship like that, just because they "shot for the moon" rather than asking for $500.

        I agree that personal connections and those in the technology field are best. However, many of our team's sponsors were made up mostly of companies with which we didn't have any connection and weren't even high-tech! We had five different $500 sponsors (Rockwell, a Rotary Club, Saint-Gobain, George Gordon Associates, and Ferrotec), all of which were practically "blind calls" for us. Well, we knew of a single employee at two of these companies, but in both cases those employees are just staff and are nowhere near the level of decision-making authority to determine allocation of sponsorships.

        Also, remember that you are representing your state at the World Festival! Any company with a statewide presence (e.g. the "Bank of My-State") has a tie to your team. A company is more likely to want to be associated with success, and your team is already a winner!

        With your team representing your state, with an eager middle-schooler asking for a chance to learn about robotics, and with an easy way to contribute, how could a sponsor not want to support your team? :-)

        Best Wishes,

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    7. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/20/2005 19:37:12 GMT
      Rusty Engineers,

      You will be better placed to receive large donations if you can link up with someone who is a on-profit organization. It looks like from your profile that your kids go to a few schools. You might try to use one of them as a way to get the on-profit status companies want to donate to. Even people giving $100 will want to take it off their taxes and if they just give you a gift, I don't think they can.

      Our team is self funded, but the school we practice at lets us keep our money there.

      Laura


      1. Message by: rustyengineers155 02/17/2005 23:09:12 GMT
        Laura:
        We have had a couple companies say that we would need to be a nonprofit organization before they can donate money to us. How did you set it up through a school? Were the checks made to the school and then they wrote a check to you/the team? I have asked one of our schools but have not yet received a response. I'm sure they don't think it is illegal but I want to make sure it's ok to funnel funds like that.
        Thanks,
        Paul


        1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 02/21/2005 01:55:34 GMT
          Paul,
          I talked to the treasurer of our school's PTC (formerly PTA), who was willing to receive funds on our behalf. I gathered the checks made to the school's PTC (robotics in the memo), and she wrote one large check of that amount to me. Our club is not officially a school club (although 3 of the 4 members attend there). Still, there is some loose affiliation/association, as the school hosted an FLL tournament in the fall, so she (and we) didn't have any ethical concerns.

          Yolande


          1. Message by: thunderbolts11 02/21/2005 18:46:11 GMT
            Paul,
            If you can work with a school, they will either do like Yolande did, just write a check out to you to get your money out, or they can send POs to people on your behalf. I think it is better if you handle your own money.

            Both the local team in Florida that won the states and Ken Skeeters group made their teams into 501c3 organizations. It is pretty easy to do, just find you local RIS office and they will help you. Then, while you wait for the 4-18 months for your application to be processed, you can write "Pending" on the W-9 forms.

            Have fun.
            Laura


    8. Message by: rustyengineers155 01/21/2005 05:16:38 GMT
      I was thinking that most companies would just write it off as advertising as we will be putting their info in our brochures, t-shirts, etc. Hopefully they won't be hesitant but I guess we'll find out.
      Thanks for the info.
      Paul


    9. Message by: rustyengineers155 01/21/2005 22:09:36 GMT
      I assume the "Wrap Celebration" is some sort of closing ceremonies for FRC, listed on Saturday Night from 6-9 pm or so. Does anyone have any experience on this. I'm sure our team would like to stay the entire day on Saturday as well as the deal on Saturday evening, but am wondering what the details are/were from those who went last year.
      Thanks,
      Paul Tagher
      Coach, Rusty Engineers


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/21/2005 22:20:49 GMT
        One Team's Wrap Celebration Perspective...

        Just a couple of days ago, I was asked via email about the "Wrap Celebration" by another team. I'll include my (verbose) thoughts on it here.


        We did attend the "team social" (aka "wrap celebration") last year, but not because we really had much of a choice. Last year, we didn't get going on travel accommodations soon enough, and only tried to get group airfare and FIRST packages until both were nearly sold out. However, we managed to piggyback on extra air seats and hotel rooms which had been reserved by two local FRC teams. Those arrangements were to stay at the Omni Hotel with the FIRST package, so they included tickets to the "team social."

        Due to the way that FIRST priced things last year, however, the "team social" (wrap celebration) tickets were absurdly expensive - $90! That was because much of the overhead of their venue costs was in the "wrap celebration" tickets. They changed that this year by increasing registration costs for both FRC and FLL teams by $1000 (from $5K to $6K and from $0K to $1K respectively) and instead pricing the wrap celebration more appropriately.

        This year's "wrap celebration" adds a cost of $25 to the hotel packages. The hotel packages just went available a couple days ago at http://www.ths-frc.com I fear that if you want to take advantage of one of these packages, you will need to move quickly. Some hotels are starting to fill up already.

        Last year's wrap celebration was basically a "buffet barbecue" in Centennial Park. The food was what you would expect for a large catered outdoor BBQ. There were things like BBQ chicken, burgers, sausages, potato chips, pasta salads, etc. with various canned drinks to choose from and dessert tables with things like cookies and brownies. All you can eat buffet style, self-serve. Nothing special on the food front, but filling. Lines weren't too bad, as they had a zillion buffet tables. Seating to eat one's meal was more of a challenge. Finding a table for a group of 20 would be right out. Splitting up into groups of 4-6 worked okay.

        Apart from the food there were fireworks, and a whole bunch of midway-style fair amusements like would be at a traveling fair. Various "games of skill" all free to try. These were the kind of games that are at carnivals where you launch a frog onto a lily pad to win a prize. However, no cost to play, and no prizes. There were also a whole bunch of various "air-filled" bouncing amusements (kind of like the "castle/trampoline things" I'd seen at fairs before) for kids of all ages to play on. There were a whole bunch of different ones of these which were kind of neat that I'd never seen before (like a "tug of war" one, or "obstacle course") that were fun for high schoolers, too. I think there were also a couple tents with free video games and pinball machines.

        It was a neat barbecue and a fun event. Was it worth $90 last year - no way. This year at $25, it isn't a bargain, but it is relatively reasonably priced. Personally, I might have paid $15 to attend last year if it were a separate add-on to the packages. We'll go again this year, as the price isn't outrageous and it's in the package. That said, I think the kids would have just as much fun going out to eat at a restaurant and having some time to run off some energy playing in the fountain at Centennial Park.

        If you have the tickets in the package, it would be neat to go. However it is by no means an essential part of the World Festival experience.


        Take the above with a grain of salt, it's just my perspective. Other coaches that went last year could surely have different views about it.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    10. Message by: rustyengineers155 01/21/2005 22:14:36 GMT
      Another question -- I see that some teams have stayed in the Omni, which looks like it is the most convenient hotel. I think that would probably be our first choice, especially if many other teams are staying there I think it would be nice to stay where many teams are staying, but the Embassy Suites looks good too. Is it a nice plus to be adjacent vs. a block away, or even farther for that matter? We will have a vehicle.
      Thanks, again, again, etc.
      Paul


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/21/2005 22:25:39 GMT
        The walking distance from the Omni is a lot further than it looks. The scale on the map is a lot bigger than one would think! (Remember, the "Georgia Dome" is a full-size stadium!)

        That said, the difference in distance between the Omni and the Embassy Suites is not particularly significant. (Both are a surprisingly long walk for appearing so close on the map.) However, coming from the Omni will not require crossing any public streets, which is an advantage, particularly if your FLLers are not "city-smart." It looks like one street crossing would be necessary from the Embassy Suites.

        If you have transportation, you may want to consider some of the more distant (less expensive) hotels. The students could still walk, but you could possibly use the vehicle to carry the heavy stuff. I have no idea what parking is like, as we did not have a vehicle last year. It may be wisest to only use the vehicle for transporting stuff, ferrying it back-and-forth at the beginning/end of each day, but leaving it parked at the hotel. Other teams that drove may be able to share their recommendations.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    11. Message by: rustyengineers155 01/22/2005 00:03:23 GMT
      So there really isn't much if any interaction with other teams while at the hotel?
      Paul


      1. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 01/24/2005 01:26:31 GMT
        Hi Paul,

        Our team is returning to Atlanta this year as well. Last year we stayed at the Hilton, but didn't take one of the FIRST packages because a personal contact got us a very nice deal. We traveled by Marta to the Dome each day, which was a very convenient and reasonable option. Lots of fun for kids from Wisconsin who have never used public transportation!

        It was not - however - convenient to run back to the hotel when something was forgotten.

        We did feel just a little 'out of it' at the Hilton because we didn't see any other FLL teams and there were only a few FIRST teams around. Actually, it was very quiet. Last year the OMNI was the only package choice for FLL teams, but I'm not sure if they connected there. We did see other teams at a FLL team social at the kid's science museum (now defunct). FIRST hasn't promised an separate social event for FLL this year.

        Maybe we'll just have to make it happen ourselves!

        Sue Wanninger
        Team 16, Martian Exchange Students
        Wisconsin


    12. Message by: rustyengineers155 01/24/2005 01:29:28 GMT
      Thanks Sue,
      We had decided on the Embassy Suites or The Omni, but those along with several others were sold out the day I received the official hotel list. As of right now we are staying at The Westin. I hope we don't feel "out of it" as I want the kids to get the chance to interact with the other teams as much as possible, even outside the event.
      Paul Tagher
      Coach, Rusty Engineers, Kentucky


      1. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 01/24/2005 08:13:16 GMT
        Hi Paul,

        The Westin looks like a very nice hotel. I'm sure that your team will have a terrific time staying there. We were under the impression that FIRST was going to offer packages just for FLL teams again this year, but apparently that didn't happen since we were directed to the site for FRC teams when we asked about it.

        On connecting with other teams... One really neat part of the World Festival competition is the concept of an 'alliance' mission, where your team will be linked with other FLL teams (last year it was three other teams) to work together to accomplish the challenge missions in a way that uses all of their robots and to perhaps solve some other problem which won't be announced before the tournament. If I remember right, alliance partners are announced on Thursday morning and the teams begin to get to know their alliance partners almost immediately. So your team can look forward to making good friends with at least a few other teams during the tournament. Our alliance partners were from Maryland, Ohio, and Denmark. Getting to know them was one of the highlights of the tournament for the kids on our team.

        The pace of the tournament is also a little less hectic than a state tournament because the competition takes place over two full days. There seems to be a little more time to wander the pits and spend time checking out what other teams have done.

        In any case, be assured that your team will have a memorable experience. We have memories from Atlanta that will last a lifetime and I'm sure your team will to. Just the look on the kids faces when they walk onto the field in the Georgia Dome will make the whole trip worth it...

        Sue Wanninger
        Team 16
        Martian Exchange Students, Wisconsin


    13. Message by: RoboWhizards35 01/28/2005 22:40:53 GMT
      Hi Paul,

      Our team, the RoboWhizards, is also returning to Atlanta this year. We stayed at the Howard Johnsons Plaza Hotel & Suites, which was right next to the Underground and a MARTA station. They had a continental breakfast, which was set up early enough to get to the Dome on time each day. The food was fair. The accommodations weren't nearly as nice as you'll get at the Omni, Westin, or even the Hilton (it certainly wasn't 5-star). But the room rates were only $79/night, plus tax, and they were 1-bedroom suites.

      We had no problem connecting with teams. Our hotel was swarming with FIRST and FLL teams. We enjoyed mixing with them, although there really wasn't much time for that (only during check-in and breakfasts. And to be honest, we didn't really spend much time in the hotel (too busy being at the Dome & sightseeing).

      Don't know where we'll be staying this year yet.

      Dana Swieson
      RoboWhizards, Team 35


    14. Message by: RoboManiacs 02/04/2005 23:20:12 GMT
      We, also, couldn't get into the Omni this year. It was booked before we qualified at our state tournament. We ended up in the Hyatt Regency. Are any of the other FLL teams staying there?

      One of the biggest disappointments last year was that there really wasn't much chance for the teams to get together. The social was packed & crazy. The wrap celebration didn't seem to have many FLL teams in attendance.

      I would highly recommend the MARTA for transportation from the airport to the hotel. It is inexpensive & has stops at or near most of the major hotels & a stop at the Georgia Dome.

      We would love to get together with some of the teams while down there. Dana, didn't your team end up at Six Flags one night last year? Maybe a repeat?

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


    15. Message by: RoboWhizards34 02/05/2005 00:06:49 GMT
      Last year we went to Stone Mt Park. We arrived early Wed morning and spent the day there. We ran into a few FIRST teams. We spent Wed night at the hotel practicing for Thursday judging. Thursday night was the FLL social event at SciTrek (which has since closed down), Friday we went out for a team dinner, and Saturday afternoon we left to drive home. It is amazing how little free time there is.

      Our kids would love Six Flags, but it would be hard to justify paying the full admission price for only an evening. And Six Flags is so big, it really wouldn't be much of a time for team interaction. (And actually I'm gunning for the Coke museum & maybe the CNN studio tour first because we ran out of time last year.)

      I was actually glad that FLL organized the social event last year because they did not do anything the year before in Houston. A bunch of us tried to coordinate a social event, but we ran into scheduling conflicts (no one could agree on which night) and we didn't know of a location big enough to hold us all (and it needed to serve food, too!).

      Last year we had our team dinner at The Varsity (by GA Tech). Nothing fancy, but you go there for the atmosphere (it's an establishment) and it has PLENTY of room. Just an idea.

      But hopefully FLL will plan another social event.

      Dana Swieson
      RoboWhizards #35


    16. Message by: GMT


Discussion: Interview on NHPR radio By: fll-freak1328 01/31/2005 19:49:11 GMT
Ken Streeter was interviewed today for a local New Hampshire radio program called The Front Porch.

The interview should air tomorrow, Thu, Jan 27, from 6:30pm - 7:00pm on NH Public Radio. For station information and the "show abstract" see the NHPR web page at http://www.nhpr.org/view_content/8055/ I believe that the show will also be able to be downloaded from the website for a limited period of time after airing.

Way to go Ken! Now I can say I know a radio personality!

-Skye

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/27/2005 20:33:05 GMT
    Ken's Perspective on the NHPR Interview...

    Skye points out to the entire FLL community that they can download my interview and is now referring to me as a "radio personality!" If only you knew the full story...

    Last week, I was contacted out of the blue by New Hampshire Public Radio (NHPR). They had received a recommendation from a listener that I would make a good interviewee, and were looking to see if they could do a show about Mindstorms Mayhem. Since we were just about to kick off fundraising activities, I took this providential opportunity to be one that I couldn't pass up, even though I don't fancy myself as a "radio personality!"

    Immediately after finding out the details on the invitation, I walked down to share the news with Skye. I figured I'd have a bit of fun with him and blame him for "sic'ing" the media after me! Much to my surprise, he admitted that it was he that had sent my name as an interviewee to NHPR a few months ago near the beginning of this year's season! (So it's actually Skye's fault that I had the privilege of enduring this interview!)

    In any case, the interview is now done, for better or worse! Before the interview, the producer had suggested that it would be a couple weeks until the recorded interview would be aired, but immediately after the interview the producer said that little editing should be needed and that they would like it to air TOMORROW! (Thu, Jan 27) Needless to say, this has left the Mayhem team in a bit of a fix, as they hadn't realized they'd need to have the first wave of their web page updates out today, rather than next week!

    But back to the interview... In sum, the show's host, John Walters, and the producer, Shay Zeller, felt that the interview went very well. I was actually disappointed about how it went, as I had a number of things I wanted to mention during the interview, including a couple personal stories and information on how to get involved with FLL as a student, coach, mentor, or sponsor. I had also hoped to have a chance to say a little more about FIRST as a whole, our companion high school FRC team, and make a plug for both our own fundraising efforts and the upcoming Granite State Regional FRC tournament from March 3-5. However, I wasn't shown the interview questions ahead of time, so I didn't realize where I should try to work in those pieces of information until after I had missed the chance! If I had been given just a couple of minutes to glance through their questions before they asked them, I could have easily worked in the above info. My answers were completely off the top of my head and unscripted as they didn't let me see the questions in advance -- I'm somewhat concerned that I may have babbled about irrelevant details, while leaving out some of the more important stuff. I feel like I've missed an opportunity to get some of that information out to a wide audience in NH. Oh well, live and learn!

    In any case, at least at this point, I am glad that Skye suggested me for an interview on the show. (At least for the time being until I find out what they actually air from the interview!)

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/28/2005 22:02:43 GMT
      Ken,

      I think you did fie. And you didn't drop the robot on almost live radio. Your team should be proud of you.

      Laura


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/31/2005 19:49:11 GMT
        Laura,

        Thanks for the encouragement! When the show aired, I felt that it went better than I remembered - I didn't feel like I embarassed myself at all by my answers to their questions. My only real disappointment was that I wasn't able to work in some of the info I wanted to include (especially how to get involved with the program!) rather than that I was upset by the things that I did say.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: World Festival suggestions By: rustyengineers155 02/11/2005 21:18:41 GMT
Experienced teams:
Is there adequate room in the pit area at the World Festival to put up some type of banner/sign, with our sponsor's names?
Our team has begun getting sponsors and we don't want to promise anything we can't deliver.
Is it the typical 8 foot banquet table?
I'm hoping there is room to put up a vertical banner alongside of it.
Thanks,
Paul Tagher
Rusty Engineers again

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 02/03/2005 20:44:47 GMT
    Last year there was more than enough room. I have heard, however, that the pit area this year has moved from the Dome floor to the convention center where the FRC pits are. Not sure about this though.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 02/03/2005 21:04:37 GMT
      World Festival Pits...

      I'll have a go at answering these questions. However, since the No Limits pits will not be on the Georgia Dome floor (as the Mission Mars pits were last year) the pit area may be quite different this year.

      There was adequate room in the pit area for a banner/sign, but not a whole lot of space. The tables were about 6 feet long, rather than 8', and quite narrow. The tables were generally side-to-side, so there would not have been room to put a banner alongside unless you were on the end of an aisle.

      Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. Take a look at the Photo Galleries from last year to have an idea about what to expect for the scale of things. See the FIRST Newsletter from May 2004 for the 2004 FIRST Atlanta Photo Gallery.

      BTW, a few photo notes:
      • FLL photo "1 of 25" features many of the Thunderbolts prominently, although Laura Melnik is mostly cut off on the left side of the photo. (The Thunderbolts are also shown on the newsletter index, too!)
      • FLL photo "8 of 25" shows Scott Evans at the extreme left of the photo, in case you are looking for a face to go with the name of the FLL Mission Challenge Creator.
      • FRC photo "19 of 25" shows the FRC pits. I assume this year's FLL pits will be in a similar area.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    2. Message by: IAFLLModerator 02/08/2005 22:25:45 GMT
      This year's World Fest pits will not be in the same area as last year, however, it is my current assumption that teams will again have similar tables (I believe 6 ft.), and yes, they were a bit skinny last year. You could have a table-top display, but anything too cumbersome probably won't work once you get all your other stuff out that the team takes along. I'm sure that FLL Headquarters will be releasing information as they have it available, and I have heard that judging sessions will most likely be closer to pit areas this year.

      Good luck with your planning!

      Camille


    3. Message by: RoboManiacs 02/08/2005 22:34:26 GMT
      The pits are in the Congress Center this year in a space that is over 30,000 sq. ft. That is over 4 times larger than the area we had last year on the dome floor. Thre are more teams than last year, but each team should have considerably more space than last year.

      The down side is that the walk from the pits to the game tables on the dome floor is substantial.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


    4. Message by: rustyengineers155 02/11/2005 02:34:55 GMT
      Another World Festival question:
      For spectators, are all of the judged performances viewable for friends and family?
      I know that at our State Tournament the robot performance, technical presentation, and research presentation were viewable, teamwork was not.
      Just trying to get a handle on what we should tell our "fan club" to expect.
      Thanks,
      Paul


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 02/11/2005 16:39:34 GMT
        Last year, they were able to view the research presentations. The other presentations, however, they could not. I have not heard about how they will be handled this year.

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


        1. Message by: SMART 1 02/11/2005 21:18:41 GMT
          Surely they were allowed to view the robot performance as well :-)


Discussion: Camp on a disk By: rustyengineers155 02/11/2005 23:16:22 GMT
Has anyone used one of the "Camp on a disk" cd's that I received literature on from Pitsco?
It seems like a potential way to raise money for NEXT year.
Thanks,
Paul Tagher
Coach
Rusty Engineers

Discussion: Looking for FRC video clips By: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 03/03/2005 14:52:45 GMT
Does anyone have any short (2 min. or less) video clips with FRC footage or know of any links? Something similar to Dave April's "Better late than never" videos would be ideal, showing the big robots. Most ideal would be clips that use Quick Time (or a very old version of Windows Media Player) -- I have an ancient laptop (Windows '98) with a 3G hard drive that I've been using for FLL promotional demos in town. We're actually starting to get a few nibbles, and some are inquiring about the high school programs, both FRC and Robovation, the new program that's slated for the fall.

Yolande

  1. Message by: warningchokinghazard320 03/03/2005 00:55:16 GMT
    Just as a reminder, my videos that Yolande mentioned are up at http://www.wildstang.org/fll/video/

    Feel free to use 'em!

    Dave


    1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 03/03/2005 14:52:45 GMT
      I may have a 5 sec video of last year our robot hanging on the bar, I will have some in 2 weeks for this year, longer than that.



Folder: Miscellaneous 05/02/2005 21:43:28 GMT



Folder: 'Twas the night before tourney 12/03/2004 21:25:30 GMT


Discussion: 'Twas the night before tourney By: jemath857 12/03/2004 21:25:30 GMT


  1. Message by: jemath857 11/22/2004 06:50:58 GMT
    *Twas the night before tourney
    And all through the house
    Not a computer was stirring
    Not even a mouse

    The robots were tucked
    All snug in their case
    In hopes of great missions
    Launched from home base

    The kids were in jammies
    The coach, she was too
    Wondering if their hard work
    was enough to get through

    When out in the garage
    There arose such a clatter
    Coach jumped from her bed
    To see what was the matter

    Away to the door
    She flew like a flash
    Turned on the light
    Tripped on a skate. CRASH!

    The fluorescent lights
    Shimmering down on the mat
    Gave a sight to behold
    For coach and the cat

    For what to her wondering eyes
    Should appear
    But a bevy of elves
    With a cold case of beer

    More rapid than DSL
    Those little guys came
    They whistled and shouted
    And called out their names

    Now! Codeman! Now Sensor!
    Now, Tester and MayGo!
    On, Robust ! On, Wheeler!
    On, Teamwork and Lego!

    To the top of the stairs
    And open the gate
    Now test away, test away
    Fix that wheel mate.

    With gracious professionalism
    And a wink of their eye
    They met each obstacle
    With a cheer and a cry

    So up to the table
    Those little guys flew
    The robot fed dinner
    For elves and pets too

    And then they jumped down
    No one got hurt
    Robo pushed in the chairs
    And swept up the dirt

    One was dressed in red
    Another is blue
    But most were in black
    With a few in grey, too

    A bag full of beams
    They flung on the table
    They engineered, fixed
    And mended where able

    Their eyes how they twinkled
    As they sucked back the drinks
    All over 21
    Clearly, methinks

    They chattered and laughed
    Until the wee hours
    Working marvels and wonders
    On that robot of ours

    Suddenly and sadly
    As quickly as that
    They undid their work
    And tidied the mat

    Then they hit the white flag
    And jumped in car
    Obviously arriving
    From somewhere afar

    Driving out in the night
    A chorus of elves
    sang *Sorry sweet children
    You must do it yourselves*

    Written by Rookie Coach
    Tracey Ananmalay
    With deference and thanks to
    Clement Clarke Moore


    1. Message by: Don't Panic! 12/03/2004 21:25:30 GMT
      If you want to print this out on one page, see attachment (Word file). It should be virus-free, thanks to McAfee.


Discussion: Should have put it under Lego humor... By: jemath857 11/22/2004 07:15:31 GMT
Can the moderator fix my glitch? Thx.


Folder: 1 World Festival in Atlanta, Georgia 03/09/2005 23:52:27 GMT


Discussion: Internationals in GA By: RobotRulers776 03/09/2005 23:52:27 GMT
Who are the teams going to the Internationals in Atlanta, Georgia? We are the L3 Robot Rulers from Western New York and would like to know who is going. Please post your response in this folder.
L3 Robot Rulers

  1. Message by: SMART 1 02/15/2005 15:49:52 GMT
    Good luck L3 Robot Rulers.

    SMART team from CT will be there.


    1. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 02/16/2005 15:16:31 GMT
      Good luck to all the World Festival participants.

      Team 16, the Martian Exchange Students from
      Oak Creek, Wisconsin, will also be in Atlanta. Visit us at
      www.ocfll.com.


    2. Message by: RobotRulers776 02/23/2005 00:28:09 GMT
      Thanks for replying and good luck to you too.


    3. Message by: chaosdesigner1051 02/24/2005 15:59:03 GMT
      Good Luck for your preperations. The Chaos Deisgner from Germany will also be there! We are loocking forward to meet you.

      www.grasow-gym.de


    4. Message by: topfive1111 03/05/2005 16:38:09 GMT
      Good luck @ all at World Festival. Our team will also take part in Atlanta.
      For contact: www.topfiveandtop.de

      or: info@topfiveandtop.de

      Hope for mails.

      Top Five and Top


    5. Message by: cleanupcrew1550 03/09/2005 23:52:27 GMT
      We are the Cleanup Crew from Flippin, Arkansas. We are excited about going to the World Festival and cannot wait to see all of you there. Good luck to all of you....



Folder: Attachments In Base 12/02/2004 22:50:32 GMT
Are we allowed any attachments to be outside of the base during competition? Or do we have to keep them in the base?


Folder: High scores we got 304 03/09/2005 14:20:34 GMT
We got a 304 officially and our score is rising. Can anyone beats us. No lying please.

Discussion: Tekno Devils By: fll-freak1328 11/05/2004 23:36:07 GMT
329. Working on adding another 45 points to that.

Discussion: 304? By: Fantastic5+1 02/24/2005 17:11:14 GMT
Hey yo people, you guys got 304? What challenges did you do to get that score? Also, are pneumatic parts legal?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/07/2004 15:17:54 GMT
    If you are using the LEGO pneumatic parts in factory original condition they are legal. Any LEGO building element is legal as long as it is not subject to the MATERIALS rules.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Fantastic5+1 11/07/2004 20:15:26 GMT
      TY


    2. Message by: EggsandBacon1266 11/08/2004 08:04:23 GMT
      we got it from everything but stairs. We also missed the stairs and two chairs.


      1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 11/30/2004 21:11:00 GMT
        Did you get all 8 balls in? Or is it pretty well a given that the center basket is the only one teams are going for? Thanks :)

        Carla
        Coach Blue Cheesy Flamingos


        1. Message by: cleanupcrew1550 12/01/2004 17:37:07 GMT
          We can get all 8 balls in the basket within the first 10 seconds. Our main problem is that we might get one in the center and we might not. We also might put 2 or 3 balls into our opponents side as well. But the kids are so excited about their solution that they don't really care about the points that much. Other than that, we can get most missions done, but we run out of time before we can climb the stairs. We will rarely ever be consistent enough to score the 355 that we are capable of scoring.


          1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/01/2004 17:49:59 GMT
            We have the same problem. the balls get there fast, but sometimes they get into the other side. We don't know how to fix it. We also can get 355, but we usually run out of time too. Do you have a video of your run that you might want to swap with a video of our run?

            Laura


            1. Message by: cleanupcrew1550 12/03/2004 21:27:27 GMT
              I would not mind swapping videos. If I can get one made, then I will get back in touch with you so we can email each other or mail DVD's to each other. I have told the kids they will not see many teams doing this. When is your state tournament? Good Luck and hope you make it to the national event in Atlanta....


    3. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/03/2004 21:32:01 GMT
      We have a tournament on the December 11th, our state competition is on the 8th of January. We have found a solution to the center ball problem. You can have one of your kids call and talk to one of mine, they can swap stories and maybe help you out.

      Laura
      321-693-5458


      1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 12/03/2004 22:42:29 GMT
        I am going to try to tape each mission my kids do this weekend. I got a digital camera that does pretty decent at filming video. So far i only have the pet food vidoed.


      2. Message by: cleanupcrew1550 12/03/2004 23:13:28 GMT
        I have your name and number down. I don't think they are going to be making any major changes now, but who knows. I will talk to a couple of them tonight and let them know. I have 1 or 2 that might would want to make contact. If they call, then who do they need to ask for?
        If anyone calls it would be Stehvin or Amy from the Cleanup Crew in Arkansas.


        1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/06/2004 15:54:27 GMT
          Ask for Laura (me) or Zack (son).


    4. Message by: Bremen Botz! 12/06/2004 04:55:01 GMT
      We just had our regional qualifier tournament at Notre Dame today...

      Run 1 - 350
      Run 2 - 402
      Run 3 - 325
      Run 4 - 390 (This was as a fill-in because one of the teams did not show... The score didn't count for the tourney)

      Les Turner
      Bremen Botz! 121


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/06/2004 15:55:33 GMT
        Were those your scores for the rounds or the high scores for the rounds?


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 12/06/2004 20:34:17 GMT
        Wow! Those are absolutely incredible scores! Way to go Bremen Botz!

        --ken
        Coach,
        Mindstorms Mayhem


    5. Message by: Bremen Botz! 12/07/2004 02:33:34 GMT
      Those were our scores. The kids got really close last year and have been working hard to reach 400. They actually are not satisfied with the scores as a whole and are working tonight to fix an inconsistant mission.

      Les Turner
      Bremen Botz!


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/07/2004 15:46:47 GMT
        How do you get your kids to be committed like that, for the last two years we have been suffering from "well, that's good enough." And I can't stand it.

        Laura


        1. Message by: SMART 1 12/07/2004 17:32:00 GMT
          Hey Laura,

          It isn't easy, but a few things come to mind...

          1. Make the commitment required and expected of team members and families clear right up front when recruiting team members. The team needs to feel like they've been specially selected.
          2. Work closely with parents and insist that they come to meetings so they really understand what is happening. A lot of parents don't "get it" till too late in the season otherwise. Supportive parents makes a huge difference in any sporting or education atmosphere yes?
          3. Make the kids set their goals up front and then hold them to it. This is a critical skill in life in general, and FLL is the perfect venue to teach it!

          Once you have some veterans who have tasted success at the tournament it gets easier.

          - Peter


        2. Message by: Bremen Botz! 12/07/2004 23:15:11 GMT
          I am not sure there a consistent answer for how to get the kids committed, but this has worked for us this year...

          We came so close last year, finishing 3rd in the state. The kids were really disappointed. We were able to turn their disappointment into a burning desire to get it done this year. Although we always have worked toward finishing all the missions in the allotted time, the team always hit a point where they thought it was good enough. This year they took a different approach.

          The robot performance and presentation are NEVER finished or good enough.

          They prioritized the runs as follows:
          Maximum points - minimum time
          Combining missions to save time or use same attachments
          Missions that have to be completed before another

          They determined which run to work on by running it 10 times to determine a percentage of reliability. They didn't just want it run once, but 10 times in a row. The least consistent ones got the most attention. They would then run all the missions with a timer, modify runs for time, and keep repeating the process.

          4 of the 5 runs are now 10 out of 10. The last one is not. They met the day after the qualifying tournament wanting to work on the last run (their idea - until about 9:30PM). Run 5 is now up to 80%. Not good enough, they want to work on it tonight too... They also want to work on the presentation some more. (I about passed out, nobody WANTS to do presentation)

          They have made this years mission so much a part of them that one of our operators left the table crying after our 325 run. They felt they let the team down. After explaining to them that all but three of the teams at the tournament would love to have that score, they felt better. This is the first year that there is a passion to succeed. It really makes the coaching easier.

          Les Turner
          -- Bremen Botz! 121 & 4159


    6. Message by: RobotRulers776 12/13/2004 22:09:22 GMT
      HOW can YOU get 8 balls in the hoop in 10 seconds when you can only carry one at a time?
      also, on average about how many missions do the best teams complete? thank you


      1. Message by: cleanupcrew1550 12/14/2004 18:11:27 GMT
        By reading the rules and being creative in our solution. Sometimes you have to think outside the box. Please note though that our delivery is very inconsistent. We don't know for sure how many balls we will get in our side and that is not our primary concern either.

        It has been my experience so far that the top 2 or 3 teams can usually get almost all the missions done at some point during the day. It is just rare for someone to get all of them done in one round, although it has happened a few times. My hat is off to all of those who can accomplish that feat because it is quite impressive....


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/14/2004 18:36:30 GMT
          Consider the team last year that won the 1st place performance award at the International Invitational. They never got anything less than a perfect score!

          -Skye


        2. Message by: twistedaxles638 01/11/2005 13:48:26 GMT
          Okay, we're feeling like we don't have a prayer now! Our kids didn't even attempt the balls figuring one at a time would take awhile. SO, they worked on everything else instead. Our tournament is rapidly approaching, and we're well prepared with what we do have. Is it advisable / feasible to suggest the kids attempt a solution with only a few days left?


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/11/2005 15:27:25 GMT
            You are in the best position to answer this question. Trying to add functionality at the last moment is full of danger. You could actualy go backwards, or make a jump forwards. If the changes can be made in such a way as to be able to go back to the original, then you might want to try it. In my experience, I find that using the last day or two for practice, practice, practice is better than trying to add a new mission.

            Having a high score at the table is not the end all. The Director's award is only 25% score and 75% judging. in 2002, my team probably took the world record for the lowest score Director's Award winner ever. As I remember our best score did not break 100 points. Take heart. Practice what you do to do it better. There is always next year!

            -Skye


          2. Message by: cleanupcrew1550 01/11/2005 16:32:23 GMT
            No need to feel like that. You are likely to see teams scoring 50 and 60 points as well all the way up to a possible 400 or higher. A lot of teams do not attempt the balls and the ones that do sometimes do not attempt anything else. That is the one consistent thing about FLL, there is NO consistency in solutions and ideas. There are tons of unique solutions. Whether is feasible to attempt another solution depends on what they would want to do. If you would have to change your current missions to do another one, then probably not. If you would just be adding another, then it might be worth a try. We usually would not be working or attempting a new solution in the last few days, but if we knew that it would help us then we might. It really is up to the team. You probably should lay it out to them and explain the options so they know the risks they may be taking.

            Either way, the table score is not the big prize. If you are a well rounded team then you may want to concentrate more on the judging of teamwork, research, and technical aspects of the competition. These are often taken for granted. If your team has a good research presentation and wants to be in the running for the Directors Award, then you as a coach should also make sure they are prepared for these other aspects of judging. There are rubrics in your team manual and you can grade your team and help them improve on things that need improvement when it comes to technical, research, and teamwork.


            1. Message by: twistedaxles638 01/11/2005 20:25:07 GMT
              Thanks! Your's and Skye's responses help. Our team has a good research project, and has worked on the teamwork aspects of the competition.. Hopefully their enthusiasm will shine through, and the robot will do decently. We don't expect to be at the bottom of the heap robotically, but neither will we be at the top. At least we have a chance for some sort of recognition. :-D


              1. Message by: cleanupcrew1550 01/11/2005 20:58:34 GMT
                Maybe we will see you at the World Festival in Atlanta in April.....


                1. Message by: twistedaxles638 01/18/2005 12:44:45 GMT
                  Well, you likely won't see us at world unless the Director's winner and runner up don't go, but we made an excellent showing of it!!

                  For all those feeling like you haven't a prayer at a high score.. take heart. Our low score was 74, our high score was 204, and the highest at our tournament was not over 300 (If I recall correctly it was 298). There were HUGE windows with plenty of sunshine pouring down on the competition tables, and our robot went awry every time we tried to use our light sensor even though we calibrated more than once. We suspect the dramatic lighting may have had something to do with it as we always practiced under fluorescent lighting and the missions on that run had worked like a charm.

                  In any case, even without attempting any balls and having one mission run being dysfunctional at every match, we were able to get the 4th highest score in the tournament and missed the third place points trophy by only 7 points!

                  Also, Sky was right.. With a well rounded team who knew their robot inside and out, a good project and presentation (even though the kids forgot their lines in the presentation and had to scramble to get their scripts), our team was awarded the third place Director's Award which was more than we EVER dreamed was possible!! We are all so excited, I don't know when we'll come down. :-

                  Thanks for all of your encouragement as it did help us during the days before the tournament as we read the posts to the team. Thank you, thank you.


                  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/18/2005 15:09:37 GMT
                    Twisted Axles:

                    Congrats on your receiving the third place Director's Award! It sounds like your team had a great time at the tournament and did very well to boot. We're glad to hear that you've found the forums to be a big help.

                    --ken
                    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    7. Message by: Limit Busters 02/24/2005 17:11:14 GMT
      we are getting 360! We are having trouble with the balls too, we are going to Altanta anyway! I would love to see the DVD


Discussion: What I saw at the Va State Tourney By: FreedomEngineers1678 12/07/2004 03:13:54 GMT
There was a 400 at the Va State Tournament this past weekend and also a 375 and numerouse other scores in the 300s. Our team was not in th3 300s but we had fun all the same.

Discussion: Perfect scores in Indiana By: LaSalle278.280 03/09/2005 14:20:34 GMT


  1. Message by: LaSalle278.280 12/17/2004 20:45:31 GMT
    We saw a perfect score of 400 that only captured second place. The first place team scored 405.

    See http://www.etcs.ipfw.edu/%7Efll/results/index.php for full results

    Dave Kolberg
    Coach 278 & 280


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/17/2004 21:39:41 GMT
      Talk about stiff competition!

      -Skye


    2. Message by: RoboManiacs 12/17/2004 21:44:02 GMT
      WOW!!!

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


    3. Message by: Limit Busters 02/24/2005 17:16:47 GMT
      WOW, great scores. Anyone got any pictures you want to pass along?


    4. Message by: Bremen Botz! 03/02/2005 01:46:11 GMT
      We just got the videos back from the tournament. Will get them on the web soon and post an address.

      Les ---


      1. Message by: madrobotists286 03/09/2005 14:20:34 GMT
        I would appreciate it if you could post the video and address as soon as possible. Thank you.



Folder: Hummers Hummers Hummers!!! 11/17/2004 22:07:56 GMT


Discussion: Our Lego Hummer the Government Mobile By: Metal Maulers 11/17/2004 21:55:14 GMT


Discussion: Our Lego Hummer the Government Mobile By: Metal Maulers 11/17/2004 22:45:12 GMT
The government mobile is one of our test robot's name. (Why? it looks like a hummer...) It's fast but falls apart easily.(our designer doesn't have a clue how to keep legos together... ) It is currently in a state of disrepair so we are repairing it and when were done we are going to enter it into the competition. It would win a speed race but in something where you have to stay together to win it would probably lose. Our hummer is faster because it uses wheels instead of treads. We are currently working on reinforcing its structural integrity so it stays together better we will tell you when we finish. Please tell us about your bots so we can use what you say to help improve ours. Just remember don't tell us our robots are too good other wise our egos might get too big!

-TOM + Nate the Computer Nerds
Tom:*cough* *cough* I'm not the nerd only Nate is *cough*
nate: And proud of it!
Tom: Lol we got a nerd in the house
Metal Maulers


Folder: learning handicapped child 01/06/2005 17:41:53 GMT
Hello,

I am a rookie coach this year.. I have a homeschool team of 7 boys ranging in age from 9-14. I have come to realize one of the boys is very learning challenged. The other kids are carrying him now. He can't program or understand the robot.
He will not be able to intelligently answer questions for a judge. (He does have a part in our presentation.)

I have talked to his parents and they want me to work with him right up till the competition date, then if he can't handle it, drop him. That will mean he has spent 11 weeks working twice a week with the team to get dropped. I refuse to do that. I just think it will crush him. Plus the other kids on the team have learned a lot by having to "help" him along. I have recieved no complaints from the other kids, all are accepting of him "as is"

So, my question: During the judging, is there any way I can deflect direct questions to him? How do I help the team as a whole, and not hurt him?

Any constructive help appreciated!!!!
Thanks,
Kathy

Discussion: Judging By: fll-freak1328 01/06/2005 17:41:53 GMT
Judging is not a cut and dry activity. So much depends on the people that have voluntered to do the hardest job at a tournament. Although it is possible, it is very rare that a judge will point to a kid and ask that one kid to answer the question. I always prepare my team for that possibility, but it has never happened in the 9 tournaments we have attended. They answer as a group and the judges can see the team dynamics in action.

Some kids will be more vocal in different interviews. Good judges will understand the some teams break up the work into subteams. One kid may have no idea about programing, but can spout of all kinds of details on the research project or mechanics. Having one quiet kid should not hinder your team. What would hinder you, is to have only one or two kids dominate the interview to the exclusion of all the others.

If the rest of the team is aware of this kids status, then they should be able to let them answer the super simple questions that the judges ask first. Things like who worked on the robot. How many sensors does it have. Have them hold back and prompt the kid to answer.

If the child does have a diagnosed problem, I would not think it in bad taste to let the judges know after the interview. A simple statement on a slip of paper might be just the thing. "Jack has XYZ and is therefore unable to fully understand the programing of the robot, although he contributed to the research project. He is a valued member of out team.". Use it if you think it necessary, but my guess is that it will not be needed.

I would love to hear back about this issue after your tournament. We should all be thankful for people like you who do not dump a child to better their chances.

-Skye

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/03/2004 14:51:52 GMT
    Kathy,

    Having been the kid who was though to be to stupid to learn anything, and having coached now 3 years, there are things you can do with the slow kid to help. The robot may be to much for him, but you can have him do homework to teach him. Take a small part of the robot and have him build it at home. Last year one of our kids got extra homework each week because they could not get it. This kid was accelerated and gifted, but had no technical skills at all.

    Suggest that the parents buy a mindstorms set or lend them one. Have him do little programs at home by himself or give him private lessons. I can tell you, half of my kids can't read the programs that my expert programmers put together.

    The judges understand that not all the kids are Steve Wozniak and there are different levels of interest and understanding. They also understand that each kid brings something to the team.

    I think you are right to not drop the kid, he may be learning and at some point may be the star.

    Laura


    1. Message by: rocker67 11/03/2004 15:36:20 GMT
      I am encouraged by both of you. In our practice times, I am a "mock judge" and have been asking specific questions to specific kids...(I rotate so each time they get different ones..) KNowing that probably won't happen, is VERY encouraging.

      As far as extra help for him, our tournament is only 9 days away, and we have 4 meetings left, I don't think that will be possible.

      He was pulled from public school this year by his parents because he was behind (very behind) and while it was recommeneded that he be tested for problems, that has not been done yet. So, there is no diagnosis to base the issues on.

      I don't think I will be giving a judge a note...while it may not be viewed that way, it seems like "an excuse."
      We are who we are, and we will compete as a team.
      I was just worried that he would be pigeon-holed by a judge and when that happens, he shakes and gets teary, and everything stops to calm him down.

      Having some simple answers that are just his is a great idea! I will definitely work on that.

      I will let you all know how our tournament turns out (and especially how he did..)

      Thank you!!!
      Kathy


    2. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/03/2004 21:34:32 GMT
      As the parent of a kid with a hard to pinpoint learning issue, I want to offer you thanks for sticking with this kid. I hope he gets the help he needs. Unfortunately, the testing is expensive and time consuming, and doesn't always give you a diagnosis that has a treatment plan. There are an awful lot of learning disabilities out there, and not all of them are fully understood.

      My daughter would be devastated to be dropped from a team because she can't answer on the spot questions. I have noticed that other kids who spend time with her pick up on her issues and move to protect her from "big scary adults". Is there someone on the team who is a leader and you could approach, quietly, and ask to step in as a shield if it's needed? Maybe another kid this one seems to gravitate to? He may only need someone to get him started if he is asked a direct question. You know- "Remember Joe, at first we kept squashing the Kitty...." That person could also throw him the questions that you've prepped him on. "Gosh Mrs. Judge, Joe's really the expert on that. I'll let him answer."

      He's probably feeling overwhelmed by the prospect of talking to the judges. Have you talked to him by himself and let him know that you understand how difficult this has been and how much you appreciate how hard he's trying? He probably knows that something's wrong, even if it hasn't been defined. Ackowledging it may let him relax a little.

      Monica


    3. Message by: rocker67 11/04/2004 18:48:31 GMT
      Hmmmm, there is one other boy on the team he has clicked with..they have even gotten together outside of our class.
      Enlisting his help is a real possiblity.

      I have talked to my 'challenged' student, actually quite a few times. I really don't think he is nervous or upset at the idea of the judging. Despite lots of practices and talking about and talking with him, he still doesn't get it. I have been comforting myself with the thought that (at least in this area) ignorance really is bliss...:) There appears to be no memory or retention of previous encounters. ie, what I said to him 3 days ago, he doesn't remember, whether it is the homework assignment or bringing permission slips in or even where our extra practice time is. Truth be told, I find myself struggling with where to set my expectations for him. So, I try not to have any. Just to go with the flow.

      Thanks for your ideas and your response.
      Kathy


    4. Message by: CrazyBots2004 11/05/2004 19:56:01 GMT
      If it is any comfort I am the technology coordinator for our school (the fancy name for the computer teacher. I am blessed in that I am able to teach this as a class & wrap the computer skills I want them to learn up in it. I teach in an urban school, some of my kids have very heft learning plans. I love the Legos program, because sometimes it gives the learning disabled students a real chance to shine. Last year our parts and organization person was a very slow learner, but had a real thing for keeping the box neat. I am not sure he was ever able to make the connection between programming & how the robot worked. (just because you put the touch sensor on doesn't mean that it will stop). He loved being part of the group, was good at finding pieces, and I think got something out of it because the other kids told him more than once how much they appreciated it. We were not allowed in the judging last year, but the feedback that I got from the kids was that when they asked about jobs he proudly said he was in charge of the parts. He let everyone else field the other questions. It didn't hurt our score at all & was a wonderful chance for him to participate. I always stressed to the kids that everyone has different gifts, and we wouldn't have gotten where we are without everyone else. It seemed to pay off. He also shared the problem of getting very upset if pressed for an answer, but that did not occur at our tournament. Maybe it was a one-off,but I would like to think that is what would happen every year.


    5. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/08/2004 19:03:03 GMT
      Have Him Participate! (Pt 1 of 2)

      Kathy,

      I am sorry for the slow reply to you on this question; I have been so busy this past week that I've fallen way behind on the forum!

      First, I would highly encourage you to have this learning-challenged student participate in the tournament with your team! He is a fundamental part of your team, and it would be unfair to everybody if he were to not participate! I do not think his presence on your team will adversely affect judging, particularly if his difficulties are evident.

      Our team also had a special needs student on our team for our first two years (CitySights and Mission Mars). He was quite smart, but had great trouble with focusing his attention (he would always be "drawn" to the most interesting thing around), had trouble with expressing his thoughts logically, could not remain still, and had difficulty controlling his body movements. However, he was a contributor on our team! I worked hard to find tasks that he could do both on the team's presentation and for the robot missions. No, he couldn't do everything, but he did have an essential role to play as part of the team.

      Although he would have trouble focusing on a task that didn't have his interest, he would dive right in to something that he really enjoyed. Fortunately, he loved high-tech stuff. He was also willing to tackle repetitive tasks in which he was interested. The first year, he worked at tweaking all of the "hard-coded" turns in the subVI library to make them reliable. (e.g. turn 45 degrees right, 90 degrees right, 45 degrees left, etc...) He also loved using MS Paint on the computer, so he ended up drawing most of the team's subVI icons. That year, the team's presentation had a "newscast" theme, so he ended up being the "camera operator." His role was minor in the presentation, but it included key portions to have him involved. He was the first to talk in the presentation with something like "Everybody ready? OK, rolling in 3 seconds... 3, 2, 1... go..." and ended the presentation with "Cut. That's a wrap!" In between he operated the video camera to film the presentation. This gave him something to do (and hold his attention) through the entire presentation, yet was still an essential role.

      The second year, he had similar roles with the robot. He even participated in our "tag team robot handling" by having a task that was commensurate with his abilities. However, he did have a role, and he loved being part of the robot handling action!

      For the presentation, the team had a presentation that included "backup slides" concurrent with their skit. This student filled the role of the "slide turner" through the whole presentation. Although this might appear to be a minor role, timing was very important to keep the slides synced with the skit. He was able to do this pretty well, especially as it involved running the laptop and projector (remember, he loves high-tech gizmos) and it held his attention throughout the entire presentation. This wasn't without its share of problems; there was one time when he got distracted in the midst of the presentation and fell a few slides behind, but he recovered eventually. Another time when the tech judging was in a science classroom he repeatedly became distracted, and kept "wandering off" to look at experiment write-ups on the walls, molecular models, etc. I am sure the judges noticed, but I am also sure they understood.

      (continued in next message; too long for a single post)


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/08/2004 19:05:17 GMT
        Have Him Participate! (Pt 2 of 2)

        Did having this student change the dynamic of the team? Definitely. However, this was a good thing! All of the other students needed to have extra patience to work with him, and needed to understand both his strengths and weaknesses. Ultimately, however, learning such things about teammates is needed for everybody on the team, whether facing a significant learning disability or not! I think everybody on the team benefitted from having him on the team, myself included! He has not been on the team this year, and I have missed him in a number of ways, particularly with this year's theme being "No Limits!"

        Did his presence on the team adversely affect judging? I can't imagine that it could have - the team was successful beyond my wildest dreams! (The team won the NH Director's Award and the International Invitational Director's Award.)

        However, I do think that he was unlikely to "count against us" in his answers to judging questions, since this student spoke in such a way that his difficulties were generally evident from his voice; accordingly, I think judges considered the content of what he said less critically than they would otherwise, and instead focused on his clear enthusiasm and enjoyment at being part of the team. This may not be the case for your student, but I don't know that it should make a difference either way.

        In summary, I highly encourage you to have your specially challenged student participate with the team at the tournament. He has been a part of the team throughout the entire year, and if he were to not participate, I think the rest of the team would regret it. (Plus, we all have shortcomings - if he is not able to "make the cut" to participate, this leaves everybody else wondering if they're next...)

        A final thing to consider is that whether or not he ends up adversely impacting the judging, I am certain that the experience of participating with FLL will be one of the highlights of his childhood education.

        I wish your team the best!

        --ken
        Coach,
        Mindstorms Mayhem

        PS: One last thing - whatever the judging outcome, when you put your head on the pillow at night to go to sleep, you will know that you "did the right thing" by having this student participate. I am confident that everybody touched by this student will gain from the experience.


    6. Message by: See-More 1298 11/09/2004 04:27:53 GMT
      Hear Hear Ken! Well said. Each child contributes in ways, seen and unseen, that contribute to the growth of each and every team member. ALL children are special and there is so much more to FLL than just the competition and the judging and the scoring.

      Marie


    7. Message by: rocker67 11/09/2004 13:28:19 GMT
      Ken,

      Thank you so much for writing. You have confirmed some of what I have done already. We are doing a spoof of a newscast...he is cameraman.

      He is getting as excited as the rest of the team. Our competition is this Saturday.

      My decision to keep him on the team was never in jeopardy.
      I can truly say I have been stretched immeasurably from coaching this team. I have taught lots of classes, from grade-school to college, and this class with these 7 boys has been the biggest challenge I have faced yet.
      I find myself talking about how I plan to change things next year...because of course we are doing this again!

      Thank you all for writing...
      This forum is such a cool idea....

      Kathy

      (ps ken, I clicked your email by mistake, and we are neighbors...I'm right up the road in Manchester!)


    8. Message by: Loco Lego Lunatics 522 11/12/2004 07:18:42 GMT
      I am a first-time coach. I don't have teaching experience. One of our kids is autistic. He loves Legos and is so creative. But he hasn't participated with the kids at all. He distracts the team. He refuses to participate in anything I have asked; costumes, research, skit, programming, building of the robot. I'm frustrated to tears. Each week it is more difficult to make progress. We have so much to do and I need everyone to participate. Any suggestions?


    9. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/13/2004 00:08:47 GMT
      My understanding of autism is that it varies wildly from kid to kid. I think you have cause to ask the parents to stay and observe so that they can help you understand this kid's needs and also so that they can help to direct him. I know a few parents of autistic children, and they do this kind of thing often with activities they want their child to participate in.
      You are to be commended for taking this challenge on. But, you aren't an expert on special needs. His parents should have some techniques they can teach you to help.

      Monica


    10. Message by: Loco Lego Lunatics 522 11/13/2004 06:22:05 GMT
      I think that autism by definition means that a person can't work well with others. Is it acceptable to look at this boy's participation in a different way? He understands the robot very well, although he has built none of it. He can hum a song, build a creation and listen to the team all at the same time. Can he come to meetings and have no expectations placed on him? Can he be a team member and contribute only when he decides? I want to include him in our team, but I don't want to go crazy trying to make him do something that he can't...work as a team member. He is learning, having fun and making friends. Isn't that the goal?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/13/2004 13:36:04 GMT
        Learning and having fun is indeed the goal. Having this person on your team is a learning experience for everyone. As long as the friction caused by the situation is not overwhelming, than the team should be having fun.

        -Skye


    11. Message by: Super Nerds 1720 11/18/2004 21:50:59 GMT
      I have had a students on my team in the past where that was the only time of day they were with (his words, not mine) 'regular kids'. He was a trooper. He worked hard and contributed a lot, even if it wasn't in concrete ways. His spirit was contagious and he asked questions that helped the other kids understand better because they had to try to explain it, not just do it.

      Take him!


    12. Message by: See-More 1298 11/19/2004 22:37:12 GMT
      It is frustrating! And it is hard to understand! And, yes, as a coach it is more work on your end. But.... the rewards to this child, to the other team members and to yourself are enormous.

      Should he be held to the same expectations as the other kids? No - it's not fair to where he is and his current abilities. Will the other kids understand this? Probably better than most adults - they have a much better grasp, in my experience, than most adults do about a peer who is having difficulties.

      As a coach, I would suggest that you brainstorm with his parents what are the most appropriate and accessibles tasks for him to do with/for the team. Sometimes those jobs will be very, very different than what we adults would consider "teamwork" but if the child's need are being met and the team is helped by his efforts, that IS teamwork.

      Also, I would suggest finding a time that you can speak to the other team members about autism without this team member present. Help them to understand his particular manifestation of it (it IS different for each unique child) and ask for their input on how to best include him. Ask them for ways that they can help make his behaviors less distracting to themselves.

      Finally, I would tie it all into this year's theme. Remind the team that physical challenges are not always visible. Autism is not a mental disorder but a physical one and an often invisible one at that.

      In compassion,

      Marie


    13. Message by: CLL1525 11/21/2004 22:05:35 GMT
      I think it is in the spirit of NO LIMITS that you have accepted a handicapped student on your team. I congratulate you and your team members for your spirit and compassion.

      Trish


    14. Message by: Loco Lego Lunatics 522 12/12/2004 05:51:07 GMT
      Our team went to the local competition today. Our autistic member had a hard time with the noise and the new environment. He participated for two hours. I told the technical judges ahead of time that he might not follow the rules, but we would try. The judges were respectful and kind. The highlight of the entire year for me (we started meetings last March) was watching the kids explain to so many interested adults how they built the robot and what it could do. Three out of the four kids knew about the robot. The fourth started three weeks ago and hasn't had much opportunity. We had a great time today. The kids already want to plan for next year! What a great experience.


    15. Message by: twistedaxles638 01/06/2005 17:41:53 GMT
      I can't find it right now, but somewhere in the Coaches book it talks about what they look for in a team. There is something along the lines of respect for each other. I wish I could find it as we have pointed out that part of the "team work" is working with each others' similarities and differences and respecting each other for who they are. We have some issues with a slower team member, but I think it is a great opportunity to help kids realize that even those who struggle CAN contribute in some way, even if it is to help one reflect on one's own "gifts" - and to consider how blessed they are to have those gifts as they could be taken away in the twinkling of an eye via accident or illness. Each person is unique and valuable just for being here :-)

      Okay, enough philosphy for one email!



Folder: Lego Humor 11/19/2004 16:24:18 GMT
In the midst of all the stress of trying to climb stairs, shoot baskets, and put away the CD, humor is sometimes important. Please post any lego related humor you find here. From Comics to true stories.


Folder: Looting 11/19/2004 16:24:18 GMT
All our legos are constantly mixed up, so there is always one kit with hardly any legos. So the members in that kit always 'loot' the other kits for lego pieces! :)

Discussion: defective legos By: Super Nerds 1720 11/17/2004 22:22:48 GMT
I thought this was funny (and all too true sometimes).

http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df200006/df20000613.jpg

  1. Message by: tigerbots3333 11/01/2004 21:12:41 GMT
    I AGREE! It is very funny... I think that we can all use a little humer every once and a while!


    1. Message by: magiccreators1120 11/02/2004 20:01:55 GMT
      The CD of us had been broken! So, it wasn't very nice!


    2. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 11/02/2004 22:07:36 GMT
      I think I had a set like that when I was a kid. Wondered where my parents got them from. :)


    3. Message by: 11/03/2004 20:34:04 GMT
      Deleted


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/03/2004 20:36:30 GMT
        Give them a break - they are from Germany. Most likely using some sort of internet translation. I think they mean that their instruction CD was broken when they received the package.

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


    4. Message by: 11/04/2004 20:44:52 GMT
      Deleted


    5. Message by: 11/09/2004 18:13:40 GMT
      Deleted


    6. Message by: Metal Maulers 11/17/2004 22:22:48 GMT
      rofl!

      Reminds me of the time one of my new lego sets was missing several crucial peices....

      - Nate the computer nerd
      Metal Maulers


Discussion: Is there such a thing as too many Legos? By: knights1614 11/08/2004 21:10:21 GMT
Is there such a thing as too many Legos? Go to the folder on Lego Sorting. Pennichuck1376 has a link to The 27 Stages of Lego Sorting. I found it very amusing, in an ironic sort of way. All true Lego enthusiasts, or those of us with children that fit into this catagory, will find it humorous reading. Enjoy. Thank you Pennichuck1376.

  1. Message by: 11/06/2004 07:14:43 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: Super Nerds 1720 11/08/2004 21:10:21 GMT
      Yes, I have seen that. I love that, as well.


Discussion: Minifigs By: ilsgreen2292 11/17/2004 22:30:37 GMT
I guess mini-figs may be smarter than we think. See what they did with Andy's Computer.

- Mark

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/08/2004 18:03:13 GMT
    Very Cute.
    Laura


    1. Message by: tigerbots3333 11/08/2004 20:44:03 GMT
      THESE ARE HILARIOUS!! WHERE ARE YOU FINDING THESE?!?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/08/2004 20:59:28 GMT
        One great source for minifig movies is:

        http://www.brickfilms.com

        -Skye


    2. Message by: fsa3847 11/10/2004 03:56:38 GMT
      Nice!


    3. Message by: robowarriors1946 11/12/2004 21:38:46 GMT
      Phew, I almost died laughing, I mean it!
      That is so hilarious! That is exactly what we need, more lego comedians. Keep up the GREAT and HILARIOUS work guys.

      -Alex


    4. Message by: Metal Maulers 11/17/2004 22:30:37 GMT
      THAT'S AWESOME! Wicked funny ! Wonder how they lifted those things that were, like, 4 or 5x their size tho....

      -Nate the computer Nerd

      Metal Maulers



Folder: New Team 11/30/2004 00:34:41 GMT
Tips For New Teams.

Discussion: We are a new team. By: Projekt Lightning 11/30/2004 00:24:08 GMT
We are a brand new team. We're just wondering if anyone has any useful tips for us.

We are thinking about putting a trailor like attatchment with a wheel rotation sensor on the back of our robot. Is this a good idea and do the rules say anyhthing about it?

Discussion: We are a new team. By: Projekt Lightning 11/30/2004 00:34:41 GMT
We are a brand new team. We're just wondering if anyone has any useful tips for us.

We are thinking about putting a trailor like attatchment with a wheel rotation sensor on the back of our robot. Is this a good idea and do the rules say anyhthing about it?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/30/2004 00:32:00 GMT
    This is a way that the 'pros' use to get very accurate navigation. I have not seen it done in FLL. I think it would make for a fantastic technical presentation!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Projekt Lightning 11/30/2004 00:34:41 GMT
      Thanks!



Folder: Robot Won't Steer Help 12/07/2004 22:33:35 GMT


Discussion: Robot not steering. By: DCHS3136 12/05/2004 05:28:43 GMT
Well...twas the night before the tournament and the kids just discovered that the robot won't turn! Yikes! This is our first year and we've learned tons...I have 5 boys with learning problems on the team..plus 4 others...but they are doing well....my question is..I'm not sure how to lead them in discovering why it won't turn. They've been able to put the ball in the hoop and pick up the cd via dead reackoning...but then discovered it won't turn to do other things...There are 4 large wheels. Two wheels are on independent axles/motors with the intention of steering via programming... I'm wondering if the problem could be too much friction/weight on the non-motorized end...that's where they have their ball/cd/glasses/tray lifter and another motor. I would appreciate any imput quickly so I can help lead them in the right direction instead of astray like I've done so many times this year....but, of course, with them learning lots from it.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/05/2004 05:28:43 GMT
    Have them run a simple experiment. Remove the rubber treads from the non-drive wheels. The robot should now be able to turn. Many teams run the bicycle wheels for drive and the same wheels without tires for the non-drive wheels.
    After the experiement, your team should have enough info to get them on a roll.

    -Skye


Discussion: steering the robot By: robojoz1513 12/07/2004 22:33:35 GMT
Our robot uses 4 of the large wheels. The 2 front wheels don't have treads. They wheels used to turn consistently, but now turning is erratic. Can I wipe the wheels of with a plain dry cloth? They seem to be getting dirty which is probably causing friction. Can I clean them with anything?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/07/2004 13:35:26 GMT
    According to Jim Sato (author of several Mindstorms books) you can use ordinary dishwashing soap in warm (not hot) water. Rinse well.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/07/2004 15:48:40 GMT
      We use those little alcohol wipes like come in medical kits. They work well and don't seem to hurt the wheels.

      Laura


    2. Message by: robojoz1513 12/07/2004 16:54:25 GMT
      So it's ok to use rubbing alcohol on the wheels? Will it damage them, and is it legal?


    3. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/07/2004 17:02:22 GMT
      Since the alcohol will evaporate completely, it can't be considered an illegal lubricant. I think you are safe with the rules. I am not sure if the plastic/rubber is safe with alcohol. I would test first on spare parts. If the part gets tacky, you will know that the alcohol is attacking the rubber/plastic. At this point the part is no longer in factory original condition and would be an illegal part.

      -Skye


    4. Message by: robojoz1513 12/07/2004 22:33:35 GMT
      Thanks for your help. We are really learning a lot from this forum! It's our first year at this, and we having a ball!



Folder: Should a team member work with the kids if he or she can't go to the competition? 11/05/2004 16:49:23 GMT
I am a new coach with a new team. We've been meeting since last April. One of the kids won't be able to go to the competition because of a vacation trip. Should she continue to prepare or drop out for the year?

Discussion: Not present By: fll-freak1328 10/26/2004 05:40:58 GMT
It is not required that all members attend the tournament. In fact one year, I saw a team of ONE compete because the rest of the team had the flu!

The rest of the issue is yours to deal with!

-Skye

  1. Message by: IAFLLModerator 10/08/2004 00:02:09 GMT
    My answer is going to be biased coming from a university where young women interested in the sciences and engineering are always desired-- if you have a young girl who is willing to do the work of the season, be a good team member, and her only downfall is that she won't be at competition, PLEASE don't discourage her from exploring engineering, science, and technology. As Skye mentioned, the tournament day is just one day out of the entire season and the experiences up to the tourney are so valuable and could make a lasting impact on her future choices. (thanks for listening and I'm off the soap box now)


    1. Message by: Loco Lego Lunatics 522 10/08/2004 00:24:05 GMT
      Thanks for the great input. We have so few kids to start with, that we were worried that we couldn't compete if we were only able to get three kids to the competition. Susan D.


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/08/2004 14:32:13 GMT
        Make sure when you go the the competition to get her a medal or whatever they pass out for competing. We had some kids that worked real hard all season and could not compete, but were thrilled to get the medal.

        Laura


    2. Message by: See-More 1298 10/18/2004 02:24:26 GMT
      Last year, we discovered mid-way through the season that one of our team members would be temporarily moving out of the state during tournament time. She worked with the team for as long as she could and was thrilled to still be included. In fact, the team so missed her that they created "Caitlin-on-a-Stick"! They carried her everywhere - to the competition table, to the interviews, everywhere! That team won the Teamwork Award and were duly noted as having the thinnest team member ever : )

      Marie
      coach for See-More, Robotic Doors, and Fuzzy Monkeys Insights


    3. Message by: Ore Creek Gear Heads 10/19/2004 15:24:05 GMT
      I have the same issue. We only had six kids apply and one of them will be out of town on competition day. He is not very happy about it, but he continues to give me 110% at the team meetings. I have used him for building and project work, as I need full programming support on game day. I will deffinitely make sure he gets all of the recognition he deserves. We are going to try and have one of the team parents video the event so we can share it with the school and everyone.

      Coach


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/19/2004 16:40:38 GMT
        During the presentation, maybe you could speaker-phone him in so he can participate? I don't think that would go against the rules.


    4. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/26/2004 05:40:58 GMT
      Or maybe have an audio tape of the team member.

      You probably wouldn't have access to a speaker phone during presentation times. At one event I attended that was held at an athletic center, the presentations were done in the locker room, there was no other room available.


Discussion: The competition is really just the icing on the cake By: Tweeters177 10/21/2004 00:21:26 GMT
I have a few kids who have had conflicts with competitions over the years due to Select Soccer, cultural events, etc.
In the past I have kicked one person out for lack of interest, but I have also had a contributing active member prepare her piece of a research assignment and have someone else deliver it for her at the tournament she had to miss. It would be a shame if a child missed out completely because of family plans over which they have no control.

Karen Turner Sanford

Discussion: Stay By: fsa3847 11/05/2004 16:49:46 GMT
She\he needs to stay. If you win the tournament then you will go to a new one and then she\he can come. And even if you don't win she\he could join again next year and have an reason for rejoining.

Discussion: Welcome By: RoboManiacs 11/09/2004 18:36:10 GMT
Hello and welcome or welcome back to another round of FLL. We are looking forward to another great season. Best of luck to all. We hope to meet as many of you as possible during the year.

RoboManiacs
Team #9
The 27 Stages of Lego Sorting. You'll find a picture of my current sorting project here.



Discussion: Picture of mat? By: Auxilium Argonauts 101 01/20/2005 23:44:28 GMT
Does anyone have a picture or drawing of the mat this year?
--Argonauts

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/16/2004 19:32:34 GMT
    Try here:

    fll-freak1328 "Mission planning sheet" 9/16/04 3:57am

    -Skye


    1. Message by: fsa3847 11/09/2004 16:45:26 GMT
      hey man there is a photo of the mat on this sight. just go to chalange 2004, then go to more about no limits, finally go to missions and scorning. At the top of the page is a photo of the mat and everything is where it is needed to be.


    2. Message by: 21stcentars2357 01/20/2005 23:44:28 GMT
      thank fsa3847, that has been helpful for me too!!!
      , 21stcentars (don't ask about the name, we took a pole. personally I voted against it!) (:


Discussion: Unofficial FAQ Notices By: fll-freak1328 01/15/2005 02:43:54 GMT
I will be using this discussion to keep people updated about
changes to the FAQ located at http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

-Skye

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/17/2004 02:23:16 GMT
    9/16/04 2017 EST

    1) General+Battery: Changed the pages to organize the material as well as make a correction to the section on how to change batteries.

    2) RIS Page: Fixed a typo in the question about extending stacks.

    3) Rules page: Deleted the section on deliverables and retrievable items due to error. Need a new paragraph!


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/26/2004 15:54:49 GMT
      9/26/04 0945 EST Version 04-d
      Added a description of tag-team and added Mindscripts as a legal language.

      Still could use a nice write up on deliverable and retrievable objects!

      -Skye


    2. Message by: Pennichuck1376 09/27/2004 14:29:41 GMT
      Skye:

      I know that we had a discussion last year about MindScript being a legal language. However, when I look at this year's rules I only see this:


      SOFTWARE: The robot must be programmed using LEGO MindStorms Robotics Invention System or RoboLab software (any version).


      I see in your FAQ update that you mentioned that it is not called out as a legal language 'but as it is the foundation of RIS it ia(sic) allowable'.

      I have a member on my team who was asking about NQC. Apparently she's used it in the past. I know that we can't use NQC, but I'm thinking that MindScript may be a good alternative, being a text-based system. However, I'm a bit worried that if we do that, some uninformed judge will not understand that MindScript is allowed and will disqualify us, since it is not explicitly mentioned in the rules or the Q&A. So my question is, do you know of anywhere in the rules or Q&A that explicitly states that MindScript is allowed?

      Thanks

      Paul


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/27/2004 14:44:10 GMT
        This has been a sore point in the past and I do not want
        to open old wounds. Tournament Partners are not happy as
        they must find judges that might understand Mindscripts.
        Some teams are not happy since they think that Mindscripts
        might be an open invitation to "too much" adult help.

        With all that said, I have in my hot little hands an email
        from FIRST dated this year that states that Mindscripts is legal.

        I should also mention that Mindscripts has a fairly steep
        learning curve. From what I understand, the compiler has
        very poor error reporting and in some cases reports very
        misleading messages. But on the other hand, RIS stores its
        programs as mindscripts programs that can be tweaked and
        used without having to start from scratch. I also believe
        that the absolutely stupid "My Block" inheritance bug is not
        an issue at the lower level. Of course I could be all wet.
        I am a RoboLab user and have never felt the need to explore
        anything else!

        I will make this email available for you to present to the
        judges.

        -Skye


    3. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/29/2004 02:27:48 GMT
      9/28/04 1023 EST version 04-e

      Thanks to Steve Dakin I now have a "printer friendly" version of the FAQ. Steve was kind enough to write me a Perl script to glue all the pages into on monster page. You can now print the whole thing out at once if you are so inclined.

      You can find the FAQ at http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

      -Skye


    4. Message by: RoboDocs 09/29/2004 07:57:44 GMT
      Happy to help out Skye. Thanks for all of your work on the FAQ. There is a lot of good information in there.

      =Steve


    5. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/01/2004 14:25:27 GMT
      10/01/04 0820 EST version 04-f

      Includes a new page on Mindscripts courtesy of Jon Gilchrist.


    6. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/07/2004 14:11:15 GMT
      10/07/04 0809 EST version 04-g

      Corrected the link to the web page that prints RIS programs.

      -Skye


    7. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/22/2004 21:41:06 GMT
      10/22/04 1537 EST version 04-h

      Removed all references to documents at www.hightechkids.org. The links were broken. Deep links do not seem to work anymore. :(

      -Skye


    8. Message by: Wildcats2263 10/26/2004 04:12:20 GMT
      Skye,
      I went to high tech kids. I was able to still access everything by setting up a user account from the main page (www.hightechkids.org). There wasn't any special password required to set up an account. Once you're logged in, look under training downloads for robot building and the build manual is still there.
      Monica


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/26/2004 20:24:22 GMT
        I will try to update the links in the next week or two. Our qualifing tourney is just a little over a week away! EEEEECK!

        -Skye


    9. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/26/2004 06:35:41 GMT
      They moved their website, the new address is
      http://mn.hightechkids.org/

      The old website still works, but this is more current. I had left both the old and the new page at my robotics website but since the deep links on the old site don't work anymore, I think I'll go ahead and remove the link to the old site.

      I did notice that when I when I used the old link, it redirected me to the new site. When I had been there about a month ago, the old page is what had displayed.


    10. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/15/2005 02:43:32 GMT
      1/14/05 1537 EST version 04-i

      Added a new page on how to ask a good question. Not that it will help, but it made me fell good!

      http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

      -Skye


Discussion: Unofficial FAQ comments By: fll-freak1328 09/17/2004 22:20:35 GMT
Please use this discussion to provide feedback on the unofficial FAQ located at http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

-Skye

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/17/2004 22:20:35 GMT
    I have gotten numerous requests for all the individual FAQ
    pages combined into one for easy printing. This is a noble
    goal, but one I can't do alone.

    I am therefore looking for an individual that considers
    themselves versed in PERL. It would be nice to use PERL to
    take my multiple files and create the individual .htm files
    as well as gluing them together in the single page. It sounds
    simple, but I need to perform macro expansion at the same time.

    If you are looking for something to keep you busy during
    the FLL season , please shoot me an email at
    skye@fll-freak.com

    -Skye


Discussion: Roles & Responsibilities By: blockium1674 10/26/2004 06:18:27 GMT
OK, new brand new here :-) Can anyone give me some pointers as to how to assign roles & responsibilities. I have 10 kids ranging in age from 9 to 14 and I need to split them up so they can be productive. The older kids are generally comfortable with building and programming, but the younger kids need more help to come up to speed. Any suggestions for how best to structure the team's jobs, use our time ??

Thanks!

  1. Message by: jemath857 09/19/2004 08:17:37 GMT
    I'm fairly new at this and have a more homogenous and smaller team (9 & 10 years old) and just six kids (I would pay a lot for a few experienced students ha ha). That said, my kids are doing a pretty good job self-selecting. One thing that has worked well for me is "training" one or two students about something and then letting them work as the junior coach for other kids.

    You have a number of students who already know what they are doing. Could you let your younger/inexperienced kids self-select an area of interest and then partner them with an older/experienced child. You would have everybody quite busy and it would free you up a little bit. I've been very impressed with the quality of "instruction" from a number of the kids on my team. They really rise to the occasion when put in the role of junior coach.


    1. Message by: See-More 1298 09/20/2004 01:28:19 GMT
      Another suggestion: the team brainstorms what roles they see as being needed on the team. This year my teams came up with Master Builders, Master Programmers, Project Leaders, and Documentation. They self-selected so that we had a pair for each category. The understanding is that everyone has an opportunity to do a little of everything but that the head honcho in each area is there to guide, assign, teach, etc... They all have input and gain experience in many areas, they all learn some leadership skills, and the work gets done.

      Good luck!

      Marie - who is beginning to feel superfluous on her older, experienced team


      1. Message by: lightningwaves525 09/22/2004 01:16:39 GMT
        big confirmation on older kids rising to roles. They seem to gravitate to those positions. I have several kids who really don not understand something until they share it with someone else.

        I would favor asigning/choosing now and letting kids get used to the requirements. This worked much better for us the past three years instead of switching jobs.


    2. Message by: CrazyBots103 09/29/2004 14:11:33 GMT
      This is our second year. I have several meetings where the kids kind of all work on everything, and we try and get the new ones up to speed. Then I announce that we are going to apply for jobs at the next meeting. Everyone is to decide - do they want to be a builder or a programmer? - after that they should apply for a second job. I think this year we came up with:
      Team Manager - handles paperwork & timelines
      Parts Organizer - keeps the parts boxes together, finds what other people want, times practice runs.
      Presenter - will be main speaker for Technical & research presentations
      Robot Handler - 2 people who run the robots at the competitions.
      Historian/Recorder - takes notes & pictures, keeps logs of emails with other teams.
      On the application they have to tell me WHY I should give them that job (just like you would at a real job interview). They also have to list a 2nd and 3rd choice on jobs. I run this as a class I teach at school, and as an afternoon program at my kids school. While everybody has a job, we also go on the theory of "jack of all trades" & "other duties as assigned". Just because it's not your job doesn't mean you don't fill in if you are needed - you are working for the good of the team, not trying to prove yourself right. So our meetings are a little more chaotic than this makes them sound. Last year too we ended up with other positions as the time went on. The kids actually seem to like the idea of applying. I have large teams - 10 people usually - and this keeps the kids from getting left out. Sometimes they don't "see" where they should be.


    3. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/30/2004 06:36:07 GMT
      We always has quality control as one of the roles. The job of those doing quality control was to test the robot after the builders and programmers had made modifications. It gave a fresh look to if something would work or not.

      We would try to let kids rotate the jobs to see what ones they liked best rather than have them decide in advance. For those new to FLL it would be hard to say what they liked until they knew more about what the job was.

      For the research and technical presentations, everyone participated to some extent. However the lead presenters were not the same people. They were two totally different presentations. Our programmers/builders were more interested in the technical side (builders would practice why they built a particular attachment, that sort of thing). Programmers were rarely interested in building, but they did enjoy working with the computer. Some of the kids enjoyed the research, while for others that was their least favorite portion. The lead reaseachers were not the lead programmers/builders.

      We had everyone help with documentation. Our kids were not big writers as a general rule, so we had all the kids email or write down a sentence or two about what happened that meeting and put that in the team notebook. By the end of each season, we had a pretty good log of what happened for that year.

      The two operators that were at the table for the competition would always do a lot of practice runs in the final weeks before the competition. Timing is very important during the 2.5 minute run and they need to be able to change attachments, get jigs lined up and test, test, test.

      There were also things like team spirit and fundraising.
      We would let the kids design their own tshirts each year, some liked doing that quite a bit. There were also things like making a banner. We got a big roll of banner paper made the design and then went to a teacher supply store to have it laminated. That was easier than having to sew one.

      If you have a lot of younger kids, they need more direction that the older kids. You will have more issues with the quiet ones not getting heard or with kids stepping on each other's conversation. If you give them muliple tasks, they are more likely to only remember the first thing you told them. So keep it simple, plain English. They also tire out more easily, so we always took a short break after we had been working for awhile.

      With any team it's important to lay down some ground rules as far was what is acceptable. For example, if your team is brainstorming ideas, it's not ok to call ideas stupid. As the adult you will have to encourage ideas to be shared in a supportive manner. The other issue that can come up relates to behavior issues. Sometimes kids like to show off to get attention. But since you have limited time for meetings, overly disruptive kids can make it difficult. You do want to encourage the kids to have fun and be creative, but not a free-for-all. Sometimes you can channel that energy into more productive tasks but other times it's more a sign that the team needs to take a break or that particular child need to leave the room for a few minutes until they can behave better. It's always good to have some backup adult or teen helpers, if the coach has to handle crowd control along with everything else, the experience won't be as fun or productive for the team.

      Susan


    4. Message by: LimitBreakers2870 10/19/2004 22:07:12 GMT
      Where can we find information on what the documentators do?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/19/2004 23:00:29 GMT
        Documentors (if you even have them) document! They take pictures, take notes, take video, and other wise record what the team has done.

        -Skye


    5. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 10/20/2004 07:55:21 GMT
      After trying a number of new things this season, what's worked best for us is to divide the team into pairs, with one builder, one programmer in each pair. Each pair works on different tasks.

      To share the robot, when one pair works with the robot, everyone else works on research, artwork, etc.

      Another advantage is that at tournament time, the pairs will be used to working together and tag team for the different missions they've worked on.

      Yolande


    6. Message by: Tweeters177 10/21/2004 00:38:42 GMT
      We have a person reverse engineer the first successful robot chassis, so we have two robots to work on.
      Karen
      Tweeters 177


    7. Message by: irobots4145 10/21/2004 03:47:05 GMT
      i have 9 kids on my team, they seem to flounder around with the research, any ideas on how to get them and keep them on task


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/21/2004 15:31:34 GMT
        Try to go backwards. Start with the presentation. Get them to brainstorm about what kind of presentation they want to do. When they decide, go back to "OK, we are doing a newscast on the cool invention we came up with to help people at a location or with an activity, who does it help and what is it?"

        Sometimes kids can't see through the requirements to the end goal. Showing them the target may help. This years PROJECT is difficult for the kids to understand.

        Laura


    8. Message by: Lego Snappers 3264 10/23/2004 06:32:13 GMT
      Every member on my team participates with every "job". I do not want the year to end and have a child that did not experience every aspect of the event. Last year this work very well. We won the Director's Award at our local tournament and 1st place robot. When we build, everyone builds. Some snap the pieces, some search for parts, some trouble-shoot pieces being added. Everyone knows why something is added. When we program, everyone adds to the program, even if it is slow at times. Everyone researches to ensure understanding of the topic, and why we need to know. This does create extra work for me keeping every every on task, but at the end of the year, it is worth it. I have to ask questions, sometimes give an "assignment" and I ask why a LOT! But to know every child works on and "basically understands" everything means alot to me as a coach. Last year was our first.


    9. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/26/2004 06:16:49 GMT
      I think that's a good approach. What we tried to do is even if one of the team members wasn't directly doing a particular job to at least let them be familiar with what was going on and why something was being done.

      When working with this age group, keep it simple. If you tell them three things at once, they will only remember the first thing you said. And don't expect them to sit still for long planning meetings either. Go around the room and have each team member do a brief summary of what they did last time, then everyone will have an idea of where the team is at and what each person will be doing. I'm talking 10-15 minutes at most total. Then let them get to work.

      We had everyone document. Even if they only write a sentence or two about what they did that day during the meeting, that can be very helpful to the team as a whole. Team members could then go back and look at the log book to see what had been done already.

      Also take pictures during the meetings. It's exciting for the team to see things as they progress.


Discussion: WANTED: Mission Mars Setup By: Team TahquaBots2133 09/23/2004 00:30:11 GMT
I am wondering if there is anyone out there who would like to part with last years mat and challenge pieces. I run a team on the current year mat but would like an additional year old mat to work with younger students. We would love a donation of course, but would be willing to seek funds if necessary.

Thanks!

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 09/22/2004 14:57:18 GMT
    I have a Mars mat we could send you for the price of postage. All of the mission models from last year have been broken down and added to the "piece collection." I'm sure one of the guys would be willing to fish out a set for you, if you're willing to reconstruct the models. It may take them a week or 2 to get everything together. Let me know.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    Team web site


    1. Message by: Team TahquaBots2133 09/23/2004 00:30:11 GMT
      That sounds absolutely wonderful to me!!! I would be glad to reimburse for the postage cost!

      Mailing address:

      Team TahquaBots
      Tahquamenon Area Schools
      700 Newberry Ave.
      Newberry, Michigan 49868

      I truly appreciate your help!!!

      Kristi


Discussion: Mission Movie By: fll-freak1328 12/15/2004 20:39:43 GMT
Use this folder to discuss Mission Movie concerns.

The Mission Movie is a LEGO animation that is created to be
shown during the opening ceremonies of a state tournament.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/23/2004 22:26:31 GMT
    For those that got to see last year's mission movie, what
    were your favorite and least favorite parts?

    I am currently filming this year's movie and could use
    feedback to make sure I do a better job.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: IAFLLModerator 09/23/2004 22:41:56 GMT
      From a tournament partner standpoint, the movie was fun and informative. We used it by showing it on big screens to kick off rounds to show spectators what the game was all about and how points would be awarded. I liked that there was some humor in it for everyone. The only thing might be to make it fairly short so that it can be shown in a limited timeframe and still get the message across. Thanks so much for doing it again this year and keep up the awesome work!!


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/23/2004 22:46:33 GMT
        Could you suggest a time limit? Last year we clocked in
        at just over 7 minutes. This year my story board tells
        me we are at about 9 minutes. This is likely to get smaller
        as my editing pencil gets sharper, but how much shorter?

        -Skye


        1. Message by: RoboManiacs 09/23/2004 23:23:00 GMT
          Skye,

          The Mars movie was fantastic & a big hit at the Maryland tournament. As far as timeline 5 minutes or less would be ideal - but I don't know if that is possible with the amount of information to get across.

          I'm sure whatever you end up with will be awesome & thanks to you and Ken for putting in the work to get that done.

          RoboManiacs
          Team #9
          www.robomaniacs.org


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/24/2004 03:10:28 GMT
            Ken and I are sensitive to the issue of length. First, it
            takes hours just to film a few seconds of movie. So any way
            we can reduce the narative means a few more hours of sleep.
            We also understand that a tournament is not the time to
            show "Gone with the Wind". At the same time, a target of
            5 minutes is nearly imposible to spin a story around the
            mission information that needs to be presented.

            Ken and I did think that perhaps we could offer two
            versions. A full length "Director's Cut" version and an
            abbreviated version for tournaments that are on a tight
            schedule or want to show it more than once. Not sure, but
            we will think about it.

            -Skye


    2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 09/23/2004 22:42:53 GMT
      Trailer for "No Limits" Mission Movie

      A trailer for this year's "No Limits" Mission Movie is available online with the Challenge 2004 documents. To download it and take a look, visit the Late For Lunch Storyline page.

      We're interested in hearing your suggestions.

      --ken


    3. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 09/23/2004 22:58:10 GMT
      Are you talking about the movie with the lego men? Doing the missions by hand?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/23/2004 22:59:54 GMT
        That would be the movie. You can see a web version at:
        http://www.fll-freak.com/2003/2003_movie.htm

        -Skye


    4. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/24/2004 03:17:18 GMT
      Would you purchase the Mission Movie?

      This year we are considering the sale of the DVD at the
      end of the season. FIRST is always looking for fundraising
      ideas that the tournament partners can use to offset the
      costs of a tournament.

      Making the DVD for sale greatly increases the complexity of the
      project. Ken and I do not want to pursue this unless there
      is a 'market' for the DVD. So the question is would you
      pay $10 or $15 for your own copy?

      -Skye


      1. Message by: SMART 1 09/24/2004 14:32:24 GMT
        I doubt it for just a 10 minute thing. However, if you were to put a number of things on there for example...

        - Last year's movie
        - This year's movie
        - Any movies you might have showing board missions or live competitions

        Having them all in one place on a DVD that could be played on a DVD player would be very attractive to me as a coach. I could use them on "orientation" night next year to introduce new kids and their parents to the FLL experience.

        I can't believe you guys are doing it again! :-)

        By the way I agree with another poster on keeping it short. They didn't show it at our CT state competition. I suspect time might have been an issue.

        My favorite parts were Justin doing the missions "by hand".


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/24/2004 14:55:49 GMT
          I know a lot of tournaments did not show it becuase Ken and
          I got done so late. In fact the video was not ready for the
          first tournaments in late November. Therefore it was not
          possible for FIRST to get the word out effectively to the
          tournament partners. This year we hope that word has spread
          and more partner's will show the video.

          I like your idea of a "super dvd". We will need to think about
          that. We certainly have lots of video from tournaments, but
          the legality in using any of it is stagering. We have recorded
          video from 4 cameras at the New Hampshire tournament but
          can't use any of it due to the inclusion of music in the
          audio track. We can strip the audio, but then the video
          looses its impact.

          -Skye


      2. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/24/2004 15:47:25 GMT
        I'd buy it if you put some competition pictures on it from this year. I love to see other teams robots and research.

        Laura


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/24/2004 16:34:24 GMT
          Laura,
          To get the disk reproduced and distributed, we need to
          have the final copy done 2 weeks before Thanksgiving.
          That means only a few local tournaments will have happened
          to have pictures from! I suppose we could ask for pictures
          of robots and teams and include them, but they would not
          be in competition.

          As for research, I am not sure how to do that. I know some
          footage was taken of presentations at last year's International.
          Would the top few contenders of Mission Mars be of interest
          (assuming they grant permission)?

          -Skye


          1. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/24/2004 17:40:28 GMT
            I like the idea of people sending in pictures of their robots. Maybe a picture of their robot and a picture of the team.

            I'd buy it anyway.
            Laura


            1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/25/2004 16:31:42 GMT
              It is a fairly simple job to add pictures as a slideshow
              to the DVD. But I do not have the time it would take to
              collect and edit all the pictures. If some "nutso" out
              there has the time and inclination, I would go back to
              FIRST and see what they think.

              Interested people can reply to me directly at skye@fll-freak.com

              -Skye


          2. Message by: RoboManiacs 09/24/2004 18:11:23 GMT
            Skye,

            I have some pictures and video from my team in Atlanta for Mars - I'm sure Ken has a clip or 2 (or 50) :). We would be happy to contribute to the project.

            RoboManiacs
            Team #9
            www.robomaniacs.org


    5. Message by: 09/26/2004 19:37:41 GMT
      Deleted


    6. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/26/2004 19:41:10 GMT
      Open call for music.

      This is an open call for music to accompany an animated movie called *No Limits*.

      I am seeking an individual or a group of individuals who wish to create an instrumental composition for this year*s FIRST LEGO League (FLL) challenge animation. You can see last year*s movie at http://www.fll-freak.com/2003/2003_movie.htm. You can see this year's teaser at http://www.fll-freak.com/2004/2004_movie.htm

      Feel free to forward this to parents or other people that might be willing to help in this task.

      Here are the important points:

      1) One theme for the introduction and credits. Should be about 1:30 to 2:00 long.

      2) Background music using the same theme for the rest of the movie. A happy version and a version with tension. Each selection should loop reasonably well and be 30 seconds or longer.

      3) Composition must be completely original. Derivative works cannot be considered.

      4) Composition should be supplied electronically as a WAV, MP3, MIDI or other agreed upon format. MIDI is preferred as minor tempo changes could be made to match the animation.

      5) The author(s) retain copyright of the music.

      6) FIRST maintains exclusive use of the music as connected to the *No Limits* movie. This will include but may not be limited to:

      6.1) One time viewing at 50 to 100 competitions worldwide.

      6.2) Web distribution of the movie starting in February.

      6.3) Sale of the movie on DVD as a fundraiser for the non-profit.

      6.4) Possible broadcast on TV.

      6.5) Future showings for FLL promotional purposes.

      7) Your name(s) in the credits in the same size font and for the same durations as the voice actors and producers. Can include a copyright notice as well as an email address. A website address will only be included if the site*s content is appropriate for 9 to 14 year olds.

      8.) Your name(s) on the *Making of* webpage at www.fll-freak.com. This could include a short biography and a link back to your own site (if content appropriate).

      9) Author(s) will receive drafts of the script and scenes as soon as they are available.

      10) We will give you as much freedom to compose as possible, but the music must compliment the animation. Therefore, a rough draft must be presented early on as a sanity check.

      11) The due date for the music would be late October.

      12) Payment of two hundred USA dollars.

      Those parties interested should reply to Skye Sweeney at skye@fll-freak.com for further details.


    7. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/23/2004 05:23:43 GMT
      To all my cyber friends that have been asking...

      At 5:30 PM today Ken Streeter and I watched the (nearly) complete mission movie together for the first time. Just a half dozen minor changes need to be made tonight.

      I had finished the filming a week ago and Ken has pulled a few very late nights to put it all together. In true FLL fashion we are finished less than 12 hours before our drop dead date! Tomorrow morning at 8AM Ken and I drive up to FIRST for the World Premiere of "Nina in No Limits". We hand over the masters for duplication and go back to our day jobs.

      It has been a long haul. We started work in June buying cameras, writing scripts, learning new software packages, and working with lawyers for music rights. Filming started at the same time the challenge was released. I think the results are well worth the effort. We hope that you do as well!

      So look for "Nina in No Limits" at a state tournament near you. It will also be available online sometime in late December or early January at http://www.fll-freak.com

      -Skye


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/23/2004 16:16:55 GMT
        You are going to release the "Out-takes" version also. Right?
        Laura


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/23/2004 17:07:29 GMT
          The movie does include 3 bloopers!

          -Skye


    8. Message by: See-More 1298 11/27/2004 20:05:08 GMT
      Woo-hoo and congrats to both of you!!! We are eagerly looking forward to seeing it.

      My teams finally saw the Mars movie last week and loved it. They now think I should invest in the equipment so that they can make one too (they have such great senses of humor).

      With any luck (and some pleading on my part), when NC finally gets around to having a tournament, we hope to see it here as part of our event.

      Marie
      from the state with the season that never ends


    9. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/05/2004 01:10:37 GMT
      11 states have tournaments this weekend (Dec 4-5). I would like to hear from people that have attended a tournament that showed the Nina in No Limits mission movie.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 12/06/2004 02:08:38 GMT
        Is the movie out, or is it just at the tournaments?


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/06/2004 02:15:40 GMT
          The movie will be shown at state tournaments and perhaps some locals from the first of December on. It will be available in a few weeks at my website and perhaps at the FIRST website as well. Ken and I have little time right now as our state tournament is less than a week away!

          We also hope that it will be availble for sale starting in another month or so. Stay tuned....

          -Skye


          1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 12/06/2004 15:06:14 GMT
            We have our Illinois qualifier Dec 11. There will be eleven teams. Nine of them trying to make it to state. Should be a good weekend.


      2. Message by: SMART 1 12/06/2004 16:23:42 GMT
        Skye,

        We just had a qualifying tournament this past weekend at Lego USA headquarters. The video was shown and was _very_ popular. Our kids all loved it. Looks like you guys have really mastered the format - very impressive stuff.

        - Peter


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/06/2004 16:29:47 GMT
          Were the bloopers shown or was it cut short?
          Was the sound adequate? Could you understand what was said?
          Looking for feedback for the Director's cut version.

          -Skye


    10. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/14/2004 20:32:57 GMT
      A web version of the movie and production notes are now available at:

      http://www.fll-freak.com/2004/2004_movie.htm

      -Skye


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/14/2004 21:19:58 GMT
        Bummer, your site is blocked from here. I'll have to go home to see the movie.
        Laura


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/15/2004 18:47:24 GMT
          Wow! My site is banned? I guess I have made the big time!

          -Skye


          1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 12/15/2004 20:19:33 GMT
            Skye and Ken, you both have done a teriffic job with the movie. My team has been waiting for it, this sat. I will show them. It was real good. But I bet Nina didn't like the cherry picker tossing her around. Good thing she wasn't hurt.


            1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/15/2004 20:24:55 GMT
              Thanks for the compliment and I'll bet Nina was not pleased with Dr. Case's non-functioning virtual reality simulator either! That had to have stung a bit!

              -Skye


              1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 12/15/2004 20:39:43 GMT
                Looked like it hurt bad.


Discussion: The "Late for Lunch" inroduction video By: CWLEGOs270 09/25/2004 04:41:33 GMT
Would someone please explain to me what this mini-video has anything to do with no-limits? Or, would someone explain to me the whole point of the video? I personally didn't understand one bit of it. I don't think that this video makes any sense.

  1. Message by: Wildcats2263 09/24/2004 02:30:30 GMT
    After reading the story "Late for Lunch" it seems to me that the video is showing Nina going to Dr. Justin Case's Lab. It is meant to be a teaser for the full length movie that 2 nutso Lego volunteers are spending an awful lot of their free time making. I'm eagerly awaiting the full thing after enjoying their rendition of Mission Mars. I would advise you to look at their efforts from last year at http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/2003/2003_movie.htm.
    Monica


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/24/2004 03:00:28 GMT
      Humm... "Nutso"... I like the ring of that...

      Be advised that this year's mission movie will not be a
      simple remake of that classic "Late for Lunch". It does
      start out that way but quickly changes to (top secret information deleted).

      -Skye


      1. Message by: Wildcats2263 09/25/2004 04:20:53 GMT
        Well, I considered using demented....
        Monica


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/25/2004 04:39:48 GMT
          Sorry,
          Demented is what my wife calls me.

          Just finished another 3+1/2 hour of filming and have
          another 15 seconds of film!

          -Skye


Discussion: Does lego mindstorms 2.0 have jumps By: AZK3535 10/01/2004 23:47:24 GMT


  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/01/2004 19:00:00 GMT
    What kind of "jumps" do you mean? If you are talking about programming in RIS, I don't think that they do (we do all our programming in Robolab). You could accomplish nearly the same result using some of the "repeat for" commands.

    If you are not talking about programming, please clarify your question and someone here can probably help.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/01/2004 23:47:24 GMT
      Yes. They are not "Jumps", but rafted "If" blocks. In your program you can add an if block like "If goToWall = 1" at the top. Then in your program, have a block that sets the variable "goToWall = 1". Its crude, but it works. The kids found it last year and we used it a bit.

      Laura


Discussion: forklift By: badgerbots2435 10/15/2004 13:57:21 GMT
does any body have a picture of a forklift they would be willing to show us. ours is not very strong and we are looking for improvements.

  1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 10/05/2004 02:14:52 GMT
    We used a forklift 2 years ago in the City Sights challenge.

    It was driven by a vertical wormgear with a shelf connected to it with a gear. We had to put touch sensors at the limits of travel to keep the robot from exploding (literally). It had plenty of torque.

    Videos of it can be seen at http://www.bremenrobotics.org

    There is a little more info when you login as guest / guest

    Les Turner
    Bremen Botz! 121 & 4159


    1. Message by: badgerbots2435 10/06/2004 01:08:47 GMT
      Thanks


    2. Message by: privateeyes1940 10/08/2004 23:00:11 GMT
      We also used a forklift in city sites. Sorry, but the picture is not that good. It consisted of a mast with a roller on one side, and a rubber wheel on the other side, geared down and driven by a motor. Motor ran up and down with the fork. Since we used our rotation sensor on the drive train, we built one using a light sensor. This was used to measure the height (rotations) up the mast. It worked fairly well, but drained the batteries quickly. Also very heavy and affected our navigation.

      May nard
      Private Eyes 1940


    3. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 10/08/2004 23:19:34 GMT
      We have one we are working on for this year, but no pictures yet. I took my kids to my work place, and let them see how a forktruck is used and see how it is held together, and how the mast hold everything in place.


      1. Message by: Robovipers120 10/15/2004 13:57:21 GMT
        go to the web site www.brickshelf.com. On the left side of the home page click on library search. When that page opens enter your search parameters in the search window. Be advised, forklift, will not return all the same results as fork-lift or fork lift!!!!! Then you click on the model plans and modify the building directions as needed to fit your robot.


Discussion: lost directions By: tinytanx3266 10/19/2004 22:45:54 GMT
we have lost our cd of directions. We need a copy of the table instructions. Please send to drmomski@aol.com

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/05/2004 21:26:33 GMT
    Please define "table instructions". Instructions on how to make the wood table, how to setup the table, or how to make all the LEGO field pieces?

    If you want the instructions to make the field pieces, email will probably not work. There is a reason (large files) why they are delivered on CD. Your best bet (as others have found out) is to find a local team that can make you a copy.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: robojoz1513 10/06/2004 04:31:07 GMT
      I lost the instructions for trimming the mat. I was emailed to me some time ago. Does anyone have this information?


    2. Message by: robojoz1513 10/06/2004 04:31:58 GMT
      I lost the instructions for trimming the mat. It was emailed to me some time ago. Does anyone have this information?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/06/2004 04:48:23 GMT
        Look in the Q&A on the main page.
        -Skye


    3. Message by: tinytanx3266 10/07/2004 20:51:31 GMT
      Unfortunately, we don't know a local team. All we need is the directions for the dining table.


    4. Message by: Flashes271 10/19/2004 22:45:54 GMT
      I would like to know how long are the stairs suppose to be?If you can tell me that would be great this is my e-mail adress student24499@hotmail.com


Discussion: Coaching assistance By: Microrobocows2105 10/29/2004 00:56:17 GMT
> Hey. I'm Katie, a sophomore in high school.
> I'm the "Technical Mentor" for a team this year, and I could use a little bit of help. It's a team of 9 boys that love to chatter, and 2 minutes without instructions they can kind of get off track. I found some stuff from other sites with activities to do, but the team needs to start cracking down on the mission. Any suggestions/tips from you coaches out there?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/08/2004 12:44:44 GMT
    Each meeting have a tournament. Make them compete at the table, and give their research presentation. It is a powerful way to have the realize how much work is left to do. This year I started doing this from the second meeting! Gave them 5 minutes to prepare, 2+1/2 minutes at the table and 5 minutes for the research. The team at first was horrified, but quickly got to work to better their performance for the next meeting.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Loco Lego Lunatics 522 10/27/2004 18:44:37 GMT
      Our 15 year old mentor seems frustrated that he can't help build. He is really happy to help the kids. What is his role?


      1. Message by: See-More 1298 10/29/2004 00:56:17 GMT
        I had this challenge last year with a 15 year old "mentor." We finally decided, after much discussion, that his role was to ask questions of the team - lots of questions. Why does your robot do this? How? What else? What's another way?

        We made it his goal to ask at least 10 productive questions during our meeting.

        Hope that helps!

        Marie


Discussion: Acceptable Pieces on Robot- including from Challenge Kit By: CrazyBots103 10/11/2004 17:29:47 GMT
After putting together two challenge kits, we actually have a few extra pieces (which no doubt says we did something wrong). The kids would like to use some of the small tubing pieces as part of their drive. Would this be acceptable?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/09/2004 15:29:04 GMT
    Having extra parts is fairly normal. Using them in your robot is fine as they are LEGO building elements in factory original condition.
    -Skye


    1. Message by: CrazyBots103 10/09/2004 15:50:19 GMT
      Thanks! That will make them very happy!


    2. Message by: Country Breakfast 10/11/2004 17:29:47 GMT
      Yeah, you can use any LEGO pieces you want. Got any lego's from your childhood at home? You're welcome to use them. It's odd that a teenager just said that, isn't it? Oh well, the point is you can use any lego pieces that are still in usable condition. Hope it helps.

      ~Country Breakfast~
      ~DarkVoid924 and StarryGurl~


Discussion: Updating Team Info By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 10/12/2004 20:30:59 GMT
Hi,
I am trying to add my kids names into the team profile..I thought I saw a place to do this when I signed up back in may but I can't remember where I saw it. I did see it right? LOL Thanks, Carla :)

Team 952
Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/12/2004 18:04:44 GMT
    You could enter your kids names on the personal information section of your teampage. That is the second button at the top next to the key. It is not recommeded, however, for protection issues. There is no formal place to enter team member names as it would be against the law (COPPA).

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 10/12/2004 19:01:52 GMT
      No I didnt' want to put them there, but I thought I saw a spot where FLL required it under Team Management. I guess it was something else I saw. thanks, Carla :)


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/12/2004 20:30:59 GMT
        In the green book that came with your registration, there is a place for the kids names. Maybe that is where you saw it?


Discussion: Banners By: Ninjaeagles2436 10/26/2004 06:50:29 GMT
w, This is Anne Adams from team ninja eagles, what size do the banners have to be for the competiton and how do you stand them up and is there suposed to be certaian information on the banner?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/13/2004 17:45:07 GMT
    There is no standard for a team banner. Not all teams will even have one. Some tournaments will provide a fabric backdrop to pin your banner to, others will not. What is pretty sure to work is a tri-fold display board. This can stand on its own on the table you are likely to be provided.

    You put whatever info you want on it. I have seen pictures of the team in practice, information on research projects, printouts of tricky code, or just fancy art work logos.

    You should contact your tournament director for specifics.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/26/2004 06:50:29 GMT
      We've used an extra team tshirt and pvc pipe to "hang" the shirt from to use as a banner for carrying onto the competition floor before. Just make a T with PVC.

      We've also used a roll of banner paper, decorated it, and then taken it to a teacher supply store to be laminated to create a banner. It's was very cheap to laminate it there.


Discussion: Team name change By: Super Nerds 1720 10/14/2004 15:25:14 GMT
I am at a complete loss. I have changed my teams name in the preferences and it still shows up as the old name when I search the NC teams and tournaments. I know it is not a big deal, it is just frustrating.

It shows up correctly when I post messages, so I am at a loss.

We were the BotHoppers (for about 1 day) before changing.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/14/2004 15:25:14 GMT
    FLL is not very good at running off the same database. As near as I can tell, the Forum, PITSCO registration, and tournament registration all work off different data sets.

    -Skye


Discussion: Forum dialog after season By: fll-freak1328 11/17/2004 08:17:10 GMT
How many coaches would be interested in maintaining contact after the conclusion of the season? This forum shuts down around March/April leaving us out in the cold till Fall.

There are lots of posibilities in continuing the conversation (at a slower pace!). Yahoo and other portals offer web servers for groups. If more than just a few are interested, perhaps we can start something up.

Rather than cluttering up this forum, shot me an email at Skye@fll-freak.com

-Skye

  1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 10/15/2004 22:21:17 GMT
    Skye, I would be very much interested. Team 91


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/15/2004 22:46:34 GMT
      Me too.
      Laura Melnik


    2. Message by: See-More 1298 10/20/2004 19:48:30 GMT
      me four!

      marie


    3. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/26/2004 05:53:39 GMT
      FLL Coaches are always welcome to continue discussions on my robotics email list, even during the off-season time. It's 3 years old now and continues to grow. That was part of why we started the list, since the Forums shut down during off-season. Discussion isn't limited to just FLL, we have a few BEST and FRC coaches on our list.
      http://www.jsoft.com/archive/robotics/


      1. Message by: SMART 1 10/26/2004 18:01:54 GMT
        So which one would I join? When I click the link to join a group I get...

        List>> Description
        Pie>> Italian genealogy
        Taffie>> Taffie Mailing List for Texas Homeschoolers
        Taffie-announce>> Announcements for taffie

        Is it the Taffie list?

        - Peter


        1. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/01/2004 08:51:00 GMT
          There should be a link there for robotics. That's a different list than taffie.

          direct link to join is at
          http://archive.jsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/robotics

          We just changed servers this past week, that may have been why you didn't robotics when you looked. We had transfered that list first. We're using mailman list software on our server.

          my robotics website is at
          http://www.jsoft.com/archive/robotics/
          which also has a "join" button on it.


          1. Message by: SMART 1 11/01/2004 14:57:08 GMT
            Tried that link. It came up with a message...

            "No such list robotics"

            Cheers,

            Peter


            1. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/09/2004 03:36:49 GMT
              I'm not sure why you are getting that message. People are joining our list and posting messages. Another new member just joined today using that link.
              http://archive.jsoft.com/mailman/listinfo/robotics


              1. Message by: SMART 1 11/09/2004 15:13:16 GMT
                It works now - thanks...

                - Peter


          2. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 11/09/2004 18:46:02 GMT
            I think I joined your list but not sure if it went through. Could you email me and we can find out. Drizztd2@yahoo.com Thank you.


            1. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/17/2004 08:17:10 GMT
              Yes, both you and Peter are there now.


    4. Message by: LaSalle278.280 10/26/2004 16:13:37 GMT
      You will also find a First Lego League Topic in the ChiefDelphi Forums that is open all year long. The ChiefDelphi Forums is the main Forum for FIRST activities. You can get to the forums by WWW.ChiefDelphi.com/forums and look near the bottom of the list for the First Lego League.

      Dave Kolberg
      Coach 278 & 280


Discussion: Hi we're ChaosX By: ChaosX 12/06/2004 23:22:53 GMT
Hi we're the ChaosX or Chaos Extreme. We are a new team and one of two in Fairview German Language School, Cincinnati Ohio.
William

  1. Message by: The Computer Viruses378 10/19/2004 22:41:36 GMT
    Hi my name is adrien and my team is new too! The name is The computer viruses!


    1. Message by: live Wires2394 10/22/2004 20:35:09 GMT
      Hello ChaosX! Your team is our alliance team for this year's Cincinnati Regional. All of the Reading teams are excited about working with you this year. Coach McCormick


    2. Message by: satchmo1101 10/29/2004 22:22:55 GMT
      my name is pat e. i am working for the 5th time. see you at the state tournment.if we get that for :(.


    3. Message by: Projekt Lightning 12/06/2004 23:22:53 GMT
      Hi my name is Nancy and i am from Chapin. this is my first time in lego league. i am happy


Discussion: 2nd Tournament Confirmation By: Nerds 868 10/16/2004 17:03:49 GMT
Our team has applied for the option to be in a 2nd tournament. When will we know if we can go to another tournament?? Have other people already gotten confirmation??

The NERDS
FLL Team #868

  1. Message by: Wildcats2263 10/16/2004 17:03:49 GMT
    Every state is different. You will have to talk to the organizers for your state to find the local rules. At least in MI, you are allowed one tournament. You have to earn your way to the State tourney at that first one.
    Monica


Discussion: "No Limits Tune Up In PA" By: corpus236 10/17/2004 01:17:02 GMT
Lansdale Catholic Robotics is please to announce our 7th annual FLL Robotics Competition "No Limits Tuneup In PA" in partnership with Montgomery County Community College. This year's competition will follow the rules of the 2004 FIRST Lego League competition. It will take place on Saturday, November 20, 2004 at the Physical Education Building, Montgomery County Community College, Blue Bell, PA. The entrance fee will be $50 per team.

We will have judging for all the FLL awards and student presentations. Trophies will be presented for Best Round (top single round score) and Most Consistent (average of 3 best scores), Best Robot Design, Best Programming Design, Best Presentation, and Team Spirit. In addition participants will receive a medal celebrating their work.

Because of demand and the continued support of the college we have expanded this year to 56 teams. As in the past food will be available on site all day.

If have questions or you are interested in participating please fill out the form below and e-mail back to Frank Larkin (pafwl@aol.com). The return of the form will tell us of your intentions to participate. You will not be registered until we receive your entrance fee of $50. So please mail your $50 checks immediately.

*******IMPORTANT ************************ Please make payable to "Lansdale Catholic Robotics"
*******IMPORTANT ************************
Please mail check immediately to...
No Limits Tuneup In PA
Attn: Frank Larkin
1330 Mark Drive
Lansdale PA, 19446

=========== No Limits Tuneup In PA FLL Competition Form ============
(please fill out 1 per team)

FLL Team Number: _______

FLL Team Name: ________________________________

Team Contact Name: __________________________

Team Contact Phone: ___________________________

Team Contact e-mail: ___________________________

School or Organization: __________________________

City, State : _________________________________

Driving Time (hrs:min) from Blue Bell, PA: _______________

Number of Coaches: ___________________________

Number of Students: __________________________

Will you be giving a presentation? _________________

Discussion: NH Teams? By: Batteries Not Included 1353 11/14/2004 14:36:33 GMT
Are there any Nh teams around that just feel like chatting?

  1. Message by: roboticraptors1620 11/14/2004 14:36:33 GMT
    Do you mean chatty kids or chatty coaches?


Discussion: NH State Tourney? By: Batteries Not Included 1353 10/18/2004 23:33:34 GMT
Was anyone at last year's state tourney? My team placed 8th out of 40 and we were so proud! Any comments about that tourny?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/18/2004 23:33:21 GMT
    The NH state tournament is second to none. BAE Systems does a fantastic job putting on the tournament.

    PS: Perhaps this converstation should be moved under Regional Information/New Hampshire to avoid spaming people from out of state!

    -Skye


Discussion: FLL Team Introduction Page - Where can I find it? By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 11/10/2004 05:32:46 GMT
Hi,
Can someone tell me where I can download a copy of the FLL Team Introduction Page. (Form C4 from Team Manual Appendix) Thanks, Carla :)

Coach,
Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 10/20/2004 17:10:11 GMT
    You can find a web version here:
    http://home.comcast.net/~poudre-fll/team_intro_page.htm

    That's one of the documents on the Resources page for our local tournament.
    http://home.comcast.net/~poudre-fll/main_page.htm

    Hope that helps,
    Courtney


    1. Message by: CLL1525 11/01/2004 22:14:34 GMT
      does anyone know any good team names??????????


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/01/2004 22:26:28 GMT

        I am sorry, all good FLL team names are currently in use.


        Try a brainstorming activity! Make a list of names and do not stop till you get at least 30. Then go back and talk about them. Delete your 10 least favorites. Add another 10 names to replace them. Sleep on it. Come back and take the top 10. Add 10 more. Sleep on it. Take your top 10. Now say the names like a radio announcer would. "And now at table 2 all the way from from Franklin middle school above the Arctic Circle are the 'Insert your name here'". Now yell the names like you are cheering on your team. Now you should be ready to pick your favorite two or three. Sleep on it, then pick the favorite.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/01/2004 22:43:22 GMT
          I would second Skye's suggestions above. However, I would also suggest that you choose a team name that can be used year after year. Our team spent at least 6-8 hours of meeting time the first year coming up with a name! (I'm not kidding!)

          The good news is that we chose a name that could work year after year after year, instead of being tied to the current challenge. As a result, we didn't need to spend those 6-8 hours picking a name again the next year!

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    2. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/03/2004 05:42:05 GMT
      I would add, be prepared to veto anything 6 slightly zany, starting-to-discover-the-opposite gender, 8th grade boys feel neccesary to add to the list. :)
      Seriously, one thing I would do differently is to require a larger than simple majority in a vote. We had a 4-3 decision, and that makes half the team feel it's not their name. Lesson learned for the future.
      Monica (now coach of Case of the Mondays. I said slightly zany, didn't I?)


      1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 11/10/2004 05:12:14 GMT
        Would your team by any chance be Office Space fans??? It's one of my FAV movies since I am an application developer.

        Carla
        Coach, Cheesy Blue Flamingos


    3. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/10/2004 05:31:37 GMT
      That's where they got it! We also meet on Mondays, so it just seemed to fit. I'm going to have to go watch the movie when I get some free time ;). Now, Cheesy Blue Flamingos- that's my idea of a great name.
      Monica


Discussion: Mindstorms or Robolab? By: mobile morph1016 01/10/2005 15:55:43 GMT
I was just curious how many teams use robolab or Mindstorms? We're using Mindstorms because its easier to learn and almost all of our team this year are beginners.

Also What are the advantages, Disavadages

  1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 10/20/2004 22:52:32 GMT
    We are a rookie team also, and for this year I chose RIS also, because it is easier. During the summer I will have a couple of the kids try Robolab, to see how well they like it. Then make the switch.


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/20/2004 23:28:32 GMT
      ROBOLAB ROBOLAB ROBOLAB ROBOLAB

      Did I say I like ROBOLAB?

      Yes it is a little less intuitive, but not so much that I
      was not able to teach a bounch of 10 year olds how to use it.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: SMART 1 10/21/2004 14:35:14 GMT
      I kind of disagree about RIS being easier. It may be easier for the first half hour, but once you start trying to do something useful it quickly becomes a real pain.

      When I first started (Artic Impact) - Robolab was very difficult to use because there wasn't good documentation (or at least I had trouble finding it). This is no longer the case.

      I taught programming for a number of years. From that perspective as well I find it MUCH easier to teach Robolab.

      Here is an anecdote for you...

      Last year I worked with a team of 5th graders. I was able to get them started and creating useful programs with Robolab in about 15 minutes. I found I had to adjust dramatically my normal teaching style. I would stick to short 5 minute "lessons" and then immediately give them a practical exercise. The practical exercise usually will required them to do "a little more" than what I had actually taught them. It was amazing to me how often they figured it out without asking me questions.

      Regards,

      Peter


    3. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/21/2004 15:07:31 GMT
      I second Skye's comments. We also started on RIS then switched to Robolab. In my opinion, starting on RIS made learning Robolab even more difficult for the kids.

      I would recommend starting on Robolab to all new teams. I would if I had it to do over again. It is a little harder in the beginning, but you can do so much more with it when they learn how it works.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


    4. Message by: Super Nerds 1720 10/21/2004 21:00:30 GMT
      RIS is easier for the team memners to learn initially, but it doesn't do as much. I had to teach myself how to use Robolab and found that it does so much more.

      My teams used RIS for the first 4 years, because I gave them the option of choosing. This year I strongly encouraged Robolab and discouraged RIS. They love it.


      1. Message by: LaSalle278.280 10/22/2004 20:04:22 GMT
        I have found there is very little that Robolab does that RIS can not. The main difference is that Robolab allows subroutines to be defined as well as macros. RIS only defines macros and the compiler chooses to implement them as macros or subroutines. The next difference is that Robolab allows parameters to be passed into the macro where RIS must use global variables. The other difference is that Robolab allows direct control of tasks to enable and disable them where RIS enables them by default. This last feature is not used much in this league. So for this league and what we have to do there is very little advantage in using Robolab over RIS.

        Now stepping on my soap box...

        Please do not trash any of the three languages being used. They all have features that some people like and they all have their flaws. It is a personal preference and familiarity and not a skill level issue here. When new people see the forum they get the impression that begginers use RIS and advanced people use Robolab and therefore the begginers have a disadvantage. There is no disadvantage using RIS for this league. All functions required for the missions can be programmed on any one of the languages quite well. Each language has its quirks but any one will do the job.

        Stepping down from soap box...

        Dave Kolberg
        Coach 278 & 280


    5. Message by: Wildcats2263 10/21/2004 21:59:30 GMT
      This is our second year using RIS. I'm lucky to get the kids together 12 times before the tournament and there just isn't time to teach real programming. So, we keep the programs simple and so far have been able to get RIS to do everything that we've needed to. For us, the short learning curve with RIS is the deciding factor.
      Monica


    6. Message by: See-More 1298 10/21/2004 22:21:09 GMT
      And then for those of us who are on a Mac - the only choice is Robolab!

      Marie
      still trying to figure out why y'all aren't on macs!


      1. Message by: jemath857 11/18/2004 20:59:48 GMT
        Hear, hear! Marie. They'll figure it out some day. :) I've had no problems wih my 9 year olds getting their heads around Robolab. Their programming is still pretty simple but they certainly understand all the basics.


    7. Message by: LegoManiacs2004 10/22/2004 06:00:07 GMT
      If you or your students have any programming background, Robolab should be much easier, more intuitive to learn. In the first programming course I took way back when, they stressed the concept of flowcharting. To me Robolab looks like a flowchart. It seems much easier to follow the logic of the program.


    8. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/26/2004 06:57:23 GMT
      We've used both, neither is perfect, they can both be used to write good programs.

      RIS was good for easily starting to program, the block programming seemed more like other programming languages.

      We used Robolab one year when our main programmer was on a Mac. Even though they hadn't used it before, they did well with it. Some of the kids also looked at Mindscipt too.

      It was good exposure for the kids to learn about both. We've also shown them LeJos to learn about Java. While we can't use that in FLL, we like showing them different tools and languages that are available.

      We also had shown them Robocode, in a short time you can have kids programming Java robots. It's not Mindstorms, but can be a good companion.
      http://robocode.alphaworks.ibm.com/home/home.html
      I think it can be easier to go from RIS to Java programming.
      The Robolab programs are so different looking than programming languages.

      Part of what we did off-season each year is take more time to learn about the various languages when we weren't on a hectic schedule of trying to get everything done in time for a competition. That made it easier in general for everyone.


      1. Message by: silverseals995 11/08/2004 19:35:31 GMT
        Could you tell me how to print copies of your programs for
        the technical judges when using RIS?
        Thanks,
        Team Silver Seals 995


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/08/2004 19:38:27 GMT
          Read the RIS section in the UFAQ at:
          http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

          -Skye


    9. Message by: G.I.R.L.S. 10/27/2004 23:51:56 GMT
      Hi, im a student programmer, and i learned to program and have been using Mindstorms for the last 2 years. This year i learned how to use RIS, abd i admit its a bit harder than Mindstorms because there is no wording on the icons, but i like it better because it is more accurate! Just a thought!


    10. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 11/26/2004 08:31:19 GMT
      We have found RIS capable of all the programming tasks we want to do. It earned us a score of 276 our rookie year and is enabling us to accoumplish 8 of the missions so far this year (we haven't quite shaved them into 2 1/2 minutes, but we're still trying!) The big frustration has been the tediousness of printing and the lack of a "copy" command -- when we wanted to combine several small programs into 1 large one, we had to re-create the programs by dragging the icons one by one (we found that using My Blocks creates glitches that were too much trouble to work around).

      However, it's been worth it. The one kid who originally showed no interest in programming one day snuck to the computer while the other guys were arguing and completely programmed one of the missions while no one was looking! I think RIS made it easier for this to happen.

      I suppose that if we really made the effort to get into Robolab, we'd probably like it. However, my son, who felt it worthwhile to invest the time to master NQC, gave up on Robolab after 1/2 hour. While I could have pushed him, 3 of our 4 team members have RIS kits, so inertia ruled.

      Yolande


    11. Message by: spacegirls544 11/27/2004 23:52:31 GMT
      There is a copy command in RIS 2.0. Go to the Edit Menu->Copy.

      Paul Tan.


      1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 11/28/2004 08:07:04 GMT
        Thanks! Don't know how we missed it!

        Yolande


    12. Message by: Bremen Botz! 01/08/2005 07:14:54 GMT
      I understand the reason for asking 'which is better' when you are starting out. What I don't understand is all the traffic that puts down one language because it might be simpler. As those that have done this for a while know, more complex or complicated is not always better.

      In the five years I have been involved with FLL, our teams have always been extremely competitive at the competition table (including a 402 run at our regional qualifier, and a 405 at state this year). Guess what... We use RIS 2.0. That doesn't mean that is is necessarily the best, but it is certainly capable of overcoming the FLL challenges.

      I would love to see what the coaches see as the positives of each package, so a decision can be made by each team based on capability of each product and the dynamic of the team they coach.

      Les Turner
      Bremen Botz! (121 & 4159)


    13. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/10/2005 15:55:43 GMT
      Our team has used both, the first 2 years we used RIS to great success. This year we changed to Robolab. The only reason was to challenge the kids to learn something different.

      From the kids point of view, RIS is easier and does everything Robolab does and coach is a nut.

      From my point of view, RIS is easier and does almost everything Robolab does. The major difference I see teaching 9-11 year olds is the ability to document your code where you can see it. In RIS you get comment blocks that say "COMMENT" which is not very useful as you have to open them to see what they say. In Robolab, you can type anywhere you want in any font and with any color.

      One thing I like better in RIS is the "IF" block - its an event down deep in RCX land. Our team uses "Ticky" rotation sensors. its a touch sensor and a techo wheel (8 tooth) we get 80 ticks per second on our test rig in RIS with a 6 block program. With the equivelant program in Robolab we get 4 ticks per second using the blue if blocks.

      The difference is the blue blocks in Robolab are not event blocks they are "Sample" blocks which only sample every .25 seconds. So that rotation sensor blue block that you are trying to get to stop at 250 rotations, could miss by .25 seconds but at least it knows what number it got to. With the touch sensor, when the RCX senses it, it is either in or out, it doesn't know how many times it went in and out. So, you have to use the orange blocks and there needs to be an infinite loop written around it and it needs to be packed into a thread and started and you have to repeat this for each port you want to listen to and ...

      Anyway, I like them both.

      Laura
      PS. If anyone wants a copy of our presentation on how to make the tickies work, send me an email.


Discussion: Downlodable poster By: mobile morph1016 10/26/2004 20:54:49 GMT
I was curious how different people felt about the downlodable poster (bottom of main forum page) I personally thought that it didn't say enough about what first lego league was about.
Thoughts comments?

Eric

Discussion: Mission Mars component assembly instructions wanted By: Blue802 11/06/2004 19:41:47 GMT
Could someone point me to the assembly instructions for the Mission Mars challenge components? I don't need the field setup, I need the assembly instructions for the individual parts. If these are available online, I can't find them.

Thanks,

Jon Gilchrist
Blue 802

  1. Message by: Cryptikatz2514 11/06/2004 19:41:47 GMT
    After looking for a while, I stumbled on these instructions. Here is the web adress: http://ncafll.home.comcast.net/2003/models/

    If this doesn't work, post another message.


Discussion: satchmo By: satchmo1101 11/02/2004 22:55:38 GMT
we are Satchmos pit crew and we are working on some research and we want to know the system of scoring on the project

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/29/2004 22:47:43 GMT
    Scoring of the project is subjective. FIRST provides a few sample questions to help the judges, but they are only sample questions. The judges will listen to your presentation and then start asking questions that make relate to your presentation.

    They do have catagories that they put scores in. Things like originality and level of detail. But what is really important is to fully understand what you are presenting and be able to answer questions. Make sure the whole team is involved and can help to answer the questions. It does not look good to only have one student answer. Take turns answering the questions.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: satchmo1101 11/01/2004 23:38:58 GMT
      thanks man. i really needed that info


    2. Message by: satchmo1101 11/02/2004 22:55:38 GMT
      yo man. local competition. I am so pumped up!!:-)


Discussion: Michael Phelps, Olympic Champion & FLL supporter, needs your help By: RoboManiacs 11/11/2004 20:55:55 GMT
To the FLL community,

Michael Phelps from the US olympic team needs our help. Michael is a member of the Board of Directors of the Boys & Girls Clubs of Harford County in Maryland. Our Boys & Girls Clubs are the state tournament partner with FLL for our state. Michael has been a good friend to our robotics program and to our FLL team, the RoboManiacs. Michael has invited the team to his pool to shoot a nationally televised commercial, and invited the team to march with him in the homecoming parade in his honor after the Olympics.

Michael is a candidate for Sports Illustrated's *Sportsman of the Year.* For all non-athletic types, this is a big deal for Michael. We would like to help him with this award. You can vote for the athletes at theSportsman of the Year website.

Scroll down the pictures of the athletes/candidates on the left side until you come to Michael*s picture.

Click on his picture.

Vote

THANKS! In an era of trash-talking, negative athletic role models, Michael stands out as a world champion athlete with incredible integrity and wisdom beyond his years. Here*s a real opportunity for all of us to support a wonderful spokesman for our Clubs and kids.

Please help us help Michael. He has done so much for our program and our kids.

RoboManiacs
Team #9
www.robomaniacs.org

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/04/2004 19:28:14 GMT
    Thank you. Michael is running between #1 & #2 - it is a tight race. PLEASE keep voting. The link is HERE. You can vote as often as possible.

    Thanks again for your help for a great friend!!

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/11/2004 20:55:55 GMT
      Dear Friends,

      Recently I posted here asking for your support as we tried to help Michael Phelps win the Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year award. As you are probably aware, since that time Michael was involved in an incident which resulted in him being issued a citation for DUI.

      In the wake of this event, Michael came to our Boys & Girls Club yesterday (11/10/04) to speak to our kids and staff about what occurred. Michael understands his mistakes and is not backing down from his responsibility to accept the consequences of his bad decisions. He acknowledges his mistakes and has asked for understanding and forgiveness as he works to fulfill his obligations in regard to this matter and reestablish the trust and respect of the many people who were disappointed by his involvement in this situation.

      Our team & our organization continue to stand behind Michael. In what may be Michael's defining moment as a man, we are confident that he will fulfill his obligations in this matter and continue to strive towards great things. Michael's commitment to our kids, our Clubs, and our country was reaffirmed yesterday. We remain similarly committed to him.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


Discussion: cd By: ROBOWARRIORS 01/14/2005 23:57:17 GMT
CAN YOU TOUCH THE CD WHEN ITS IN BASE?

  1. Message by: SandersTigers203 01/14/2005 23:57:17 GMT
    Yes!!!!!! You can touch the cd when it's on or at base you can touch any thing that is on or at base.


Discussion: cd By: ROBOWARRIORS 01/20/2005 00:34:28 GMT
CAN YOU TOUCH THE CD WHEN ITS IN BASE?

  1. Message by: ROBOWARRIORS 11/02/2004 21:19:40 GMT
    DOES ANYONE HAVE ANSWERS


    1. Message by: ROBOWARRIORS 11/02/2004 21:24:57 GMT
      cAN YOU TOUCH THE CD WHEN ITS IN BASE?


    2. Message by: ROBOWARRIORS 11/02/2004 21:26:13 GMT
      DID ANYONE GO TO THE KEENE COMP. ON SATURDAY?


      1. Message by: ROBOWARRIORS 11/02/2004 21:27:20 GMT
        YES I DID GO WE CAME IN 2ND


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/02/2004 21:33:53 GMT
          RoboWarriers,

          1) This is not IM. It may take hours or even days for people to read your question and respond.

          2) Your cap-lock is stuck on. UPPERCASE text indicates that you are shouting. Shouting is not considered good manners.

          3) You may touch the CD or anything else as much as you want if it got to the base legaly. If your drive out, pick up the CD and return in to base, you may then touch it and manipulate it as much as you want.

          -Skye


    3. Message by: ROBOWARRIORS 11/02/2004 21:26:37 GMT
      HELLO, ANY ONE THERE


    4. Message by: SMART 1 11/02/2004 21:26:41 GMT
      Your question needs to be more specific.

      Can you as a human being toucht the CD during the match? No.

      Can your robot touch the CD while it is in base. Yes, but with restrictions. You have to meet all the rules in order to score points for a mission.

      Here are the rules...

      http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14150

      There are a few rules that apply but in particular refer to the ROBOT MUST LEAVE BASE: rule.

      - Peter


      1. Message by: ROBOWARRIORS 11/04/2004 22:58:32 GMT
        the question that i asked was if the CD was flipped it to base can you touch it?


        1. Message by: SMART 1 11/05/2004 15:55:18 GMT
          Take a look at this link...

          http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

          Then go to the strategy questions - it is definitely covered there.

          If you're robot can "flip" or otherwise bring the CD to base you may touch it while in base (for example to load on to your Robot for later delivery, etc.).

          - Peter


    5. Message by: ROBOWARRIORS 11/04/2004 22:57:08 GMT
      answer the question


      1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 11/04/2004 23:47:55 GMT
        Please read the rest of the thread, your question was answered. Please remember this is not IM, and it may take a day or two for your post to be answered. Thank You


    6. Message by: 21stcentars2357 01/20/2005 00:34:28 GMT
      Anybody there?


Discussion: CD By: ROBOWARRIORS 01/20/2005 00:43:25 GMT
CAN YOUU TOUCH THE CD WHEN ITS IN BASE?

  1. Message by: 21stcentars2357 01/20/2005 00:43:25 GMT
    Yes, i think u can. Are u thinking of bringing the CD to base and placing it on the case by hand?


Discussion: The night before.... By: fll-freak1328 11/14/2004 14:53:47 GMT
It is 9:00PM and the last of the team has just left my home. They had arrived here after school. I worked them to near death, feed them dinner than worked than to death again. Going into tonight's meeting we had all the parts but we needed polish. Tonight they sparkled.

This is a 4th year team that is mostly original members. They have worked together well from day one. This year I was a bit worried in that our qualifing competitions are VERY early. So I changed my strategy with them. From the second meeting we held, I forced them to run at the table (a solid 16 points) and give me their research presentation (pulled out of mid air). We have been doing that each meeting. I think it has made them realize what was still left to be done, and gave them a great boost when their score started to climb up.

Interstingly, the presentation they created on the third day is the one they went back to a month later after they tried a bunch of other ideas. The off-the-cuff presentations I forced on them was a good idea because they learned they can discard work. Before, if they had invested even a minute of effort, they would not toss it.

So tonight we alternated going to the table, doing the research presentation, and making small corrections to the presentation. We aggreed not to touch the robot software but just work with the devil we know rather than the devil we do not. As it is we have a very reliable and solid score. If nothing else, we still know how to get a solid 16 points!

Tomorrow we compete. Win, draw, or loose we will have a great time, and that is what matters most. Good luck to you all.

-Skye

  1. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/07/2004 03:59:20 GMT
    16 points! Wow. That means you can actually get the robot to return to base on its own reliably. We can manage to not score on any mission and lose the bonus points, too!

    But seriously, good luck tomorrow. We have a week left and things are starting to come together. Kids videoed their research presentation today and we're starting to complete some missions (not all) succesfully.

    Monica


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/07/2004 04:48:02 GMT
      Results:

      Had a great day. The tournament was very well run and actually ran an hour ahead of schedule till they hit a snag with the scoring software and had to resort to paper and pencil.

      We did not know what to expect for such an early tournament. We had assumed that we would meet lots of veteran teams and not too many rookies. But it was about 50/50. Lots of great teams and the kids seemed very nice and well mentored and supervised. Kudos to all the coaches and parental units.

      We had a few problems during the first three rounds. The CD that was used had a very sharp edge and caused problems with out delivery system. The kids brainstormed and came up with a solution that make it better but not perfect. As it was, we made it into the final round but floundered a bit and took a very respectable second place.

      Usually, I do not follow the kids into the judging. I prefer that they can't see me and therefore are more self reliant. I broke with that tradition this year to video tape them. We will use the video to optimize our performance at the state tournament.

      Will post detailed results when they become available.

      -Skye

      PS: 16 points means we can just watch the robot do nothing for 2+1/2 minutes!


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/08/2004 17:57:10 GMT
        Skye,

        I assume you made the cut then and are off to the state tournament - congrats. You are short changing your 2+1/2 minute run of sitting in base - you forgot the free chair.

        Chair = 10
        8 I 2 balls = 16
        -------------------
        Total: 26

        I think you owe your kids ice cream or something :-)

        Laura


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/08/2004 19:33:18 GMT
          Rats! I forgot that pesky chair. Well, the kids will not get ice-cream, but I did fund a pizza party the night before the tournament!

          -Skye


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/08/2004 19:30:36 GMT
        Well, since Skye would never mention this out of modesty, I will let folks know that the Tekno Devils (the team Skye coaches) not only had a good time at the tournament and finished 2nd in robot performance, but came away with the Director's Award...

        Congrats, Tekno Devils!

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

        PS: I'm just hoping that Mindstorms Mayhem can qualify for the state tournament! We're way behind where we wanted to be at this point -- we only decided on a base robot one week ago today, and our qualifier tournament is on Saturday, Nov 13!


        1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/08/2004 19:46:50 GMT
          Congrats Skye & good luck Ken. It's nice when good things happen to good people!!

          RoboManiacs
          Team #9
          www.robomaniacs.org


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/08/2004 20:13:06 GMT
            Thanks for the kind thoughts. The team had great fun. Our only surprise was the CD delivery mission. This was a mission that had worked without failure for a month but failed each time during the first three rounds. The problem was that the CD used had a very sharp edge. Sharp enough to cut a finger if not careful. This sharp edge dug into the plastic mechanism rather than letting the CD side off it. The upshot was that we picked the CD up, moved it right over the CD case than promply pulled it back and placed it right back on the CD holder! Had that been the mission, we could never have done it as accuratly. In watching the video we took, we could hear the surprise of the crowd and the groans from the team. Especially after the 3rd time when the whole team chorused "Not AGAIN!!!!".

            I did manage to get a duplicate of the disk to take home. Sure enough the #$%#%$! CD fails at home as well. Team has some work to do!

            Although Ken does not have a working robot yet, I am sure we will be meeting him at the state tournament. Ken's team is well aware that only 25% of your qualifing points come from the robot score. They have been focusing on the Project. I should know about this. The Tekno Devils shall be remembered in the anals of FLL as being the team that won a State Directors Award with lowest performance robot score (not even 100 points if memory serves me right).

            -Skye


    2. Message by: roboticraptors1620 11/14/2004 14:53:47 GMT
      Thanks for the coaching ideas, Skye. We just finished our first year yesterday. The kids did very well. Not well enough to go to the State finals but well enough to be very happy. They were absolutley in awe of the way that their robot performed exactly the same way on the table at home, the practice table, the competition table and the technical presentation table (the judge asked them to demonstrate the mission they were most proud of). I think that drove home to them the difference between a robot and a machine. That little RCX really know what is happening around it!
      They were among the highest scorers in two rounds. In the second round they nervously started the robot outside of base and then were too flustered to pull themseleves back together. Thank goodness they ended on a high note!


Discussion: Unofficial Scorekeeping Sheet By: RoboQuest 11/10/2004 05:49:42 GMT
Because I am an addicted sabermetrician, I developed an unofficial scoresheet for teams to use at their tournaments. In past years, I made copies and passed them out at the tournament we attended, but the copying costs for a couple hundred sheets start to add up and the scoresheet is much easier to use if printed in color. Please feel free to download this one and use it however you like, although I did include a recommended score keeping process with the scoresheet.

Please note that the scoresheet must be located using the folder tabs at the bottom of the Excel Window after you launch the file.

According to my calculations, the maximum score possible is 440 points if one team dumps all of their balls into their opponent's basket. Without help from your opponent, the maximum possible score is 400 points. Please post any errors that you may find with the scoresheet and I will try to correct them prior to the start of the tournaments.

P.S. On several instances in the past, the judges have made mistakes either calculating our score or communicating it to the tournament officials. If this happens to you also, oh well, just forget about it. With all of the mayhem occurring at a tournament of 40 or more teams, this is bound to happen to somebody and impossible to sort out. Remember that you get three rounds and most tournaments just use the best score of the three for determining the performance results.

- Mike Wallis
RoboQuest
aka '03 Robonauts

  1. Message by: RoboQuest 11/09/2004 00:26:08 GMT
    The attachment did not seem to appear on the original post!

    Please note that if you try to open this spreadsheet in your browser window, you will not have the Excel menu bar at the top which is needed to properly view and print the scoresheet. Save this file to disk and then open it in an Excel window. Use the File > Print Preview drop down menu to view the instructions, example and scoresheet.

    You will only be able to view the file so click the "Read Only" button when Excel is launched.


    1. Message by: 11/09/2004 00:27:46 GMT
      Deleted


    2. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/10/2004 05:49:42 GMT
      Ok, Mike, you sent me in search of the definition. For anyone else who needs to know, a sabermetrician is a person who is addicted to baseball stats.
      Thanks for the score sheet. We're going to White Lake this weekend. Maybe we'll see you there.
      Monica


Discussion: Team Size By: Wildcats2263 11/28/2004 04:55:38 GMT
I thought I remembered that there is a maximum team size of 10, however, I don't see any reference to this in the rules. I'm asking because of something I observed at our competition this weekend. A number of teams seemed to clearly be larger than 10 kids. They were wearing shirts labeled with the subteam they belonged to- i.e. research, spirit, robot, programming, etc. These teams took all the non-robot awards, and consequently were at an advantage to advance to state. Having a larger group let them devote more time to things like the project. (Not that I'd want to coach a group the size of some of these.) Seemed to be either part of technology clubs or in-school teams. Didn't want to challenge anyone at the tournament, but I'm wondering what the rule is. Perhaps there's a loophole I'm not remembering, or maybe it has changed since last year.

Monica

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/15/2004 13:47:17 GMT
    Teams are limited to 10 members. This issue is addressed in the UFAQ. Often more than just team members get shirts. The mentors, siblings, parents, and grandparents may be all decked out in the same shirt.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/15/2004 17:12:36 GMT
      Yeah, I know the tshirt count is unreliable. I was counting the number of kids who went up when an award was announced and the number pictured or listed on display boards as team members. There were groups as large as 19. Perhaps they were really 2 teams, and the other group is competing next week, but the way they presented themselves was as one team. The only place I see team size mentioned in the documentation is on one of the first pages in the coaches manual, the FLL Honor code. I'll have to talk to our state organizers and get a feel for how they monitor team size. No doubt that I could have misinterpretted what I saw.

      Lest this sound like sour grapes, it's not. The tournament we were at was incredibly well run and organized. We had a wonderful experience and the kids were pleased with how they did. I really appreciated all the hard work the organizers put in to keep things moving on schedule- what a job! We're not qualified for state, but it was worth every minute of my time.

      Monica


    2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/15/2004 18:01:47 GMT
      Maximum team size is 10 students. I don't have the exact reference handy, but this is in the printed coaches manual sent out by FLL.

      That said, counting shirts will often lead to many, many more individuals for some particularly zealous teams! The team I coach has 10 students, 2 coaches, and 1 mentor. However, many of the other siblings of students and parents decided to purchase shirts this year as well, as they want to feel a part of the team when they come to cheer us on. We also have a "Junior FLL" (an experimental program being tried out in NH this year) team which involves six more students and a couple more coaches. All together, we ordered 31 shirts for an FLL team of 10 students! Believe me, that number of shirts (especially with the color we have this year) makes it seem like our team is HUGE! However, our FLL team only has 10 students - managing more than that would be a tremendous challenge!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    3. Message by: CrazyBots2004 11/16/2004 19:51:05 GMT
      In our case counting shirts could be a real problem. I do this with an entire class. We work on the whole project together in groups of 4 up until a certain point. At that point they all apply for jobs (& I have many). Only 10 of the jobs are tournament jobs (programmer, researcher, presentor, builder, manager), the rest are support team jobs (web masters, parts & organization, graphics, Public relations). The tournament team works on the actual robot & research projects that go with it, but the support team provides all the extras like press releases, graphics & logos for the tee shirts, etc. All of the students in the class get a tee shirt (but we don't spend the money to label the teams!). The PR people are encouraged to come and cover the event, but not required & are under their own parents suppervision. Last year we did have a "spirit" section - they wrote cheers that they were then too embaressed to use at the main event, and hung up posters. It's all so the kids get a chance to participate on whatever level. I don't know that the support team actually helps us win any awards, in fact it probably detracts from our chances,because I have to spend class time helping support team members with digital camera operation, word processing and the like.


    4. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/17/2004 05:02:43 GMT
      At what "point" do you stop working on the whole project together? If you mean that you are teaching them all some engineering basics and programming techniques prior to the challenge being released, then I can see doing as you describe, perhaps. However, the day the challenge is released, only the 10 you've already picked should be involved in brainstorming solutions, research, programming and whatnot.
      Now as to being at a disdvantage because you spend class time with the other kids, remember that those of us doing this as an extracurricular activity are not meeting every day in class, and we're still asking our 10 or less kids to do all those things your support team is doing. So, my kids have less time to spend on robot design and research because they're designing logos, thinking of cheers, organizing parts, etc. during 2 meetings a week. Luckily the "team spirit" award doesn't count towards the overall rankings, at least on paper.
      Monica


      1. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/17/2004 08:01:08 GMT
        I think you raise a valid point here. Once the challenge is released, you shouldn't have the entire class working on it, unless you have multiple teams. At least not if you are only sending one team to a competition. FLL is intended to be a small group project, not an entire class, unless you do multiple teams.

        Now there are robotics competitions such as BEST or FRC that do have large teams of 20-40 kids on one team where they would split off into sub-groups such as what you describe.

        Part of the challenge for the 10 kid or less team is learning to manage all those other activities in a short few weeks, they didn't have a support team. They were the ones who came up with the banner and tshirt designs. Plus they were the ones who did the fundraising, they didn't have a support team doing it for them.

        They had to balance their time between how much time they wanted to devote to research vs how much to work on the programming for example.

        Now when we went to events, we did have others cheering us on in the stands (parents, grandparents, friends, siblings, ect).

        What some schools do that do have muliple teams is first meet as one big group for an overview, then break into smaller groups for each individual team. The individual teams will them come up with their own programming and research solutions.


    5. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/17/2004 07:51:34 GMT
      We always bought more shirts than team members because it was cheaper per shirt to do more shirts when we had them silkscreened. The parents/siblings/grandparents would pay for their own shirts. But the price per shirt was much better if we did more than 10. I think one year we had bought about 30 shirts total.

      The FLL Honor Code clearly states the 10 kid max.

      Now sometimes a school will have multiple teams and they all wear the same shirt, just because it's cheaper to not have to do multiple tshirt designs.

      Did your event have a team list? Most events will list what teams are participating on the seeding schedule and you should be able to tell if a particular group has more than one team. If not, and you are still concerned about it, then tactfully ask the officials for your event about the big teams.

      Most coordinators will ask for feedback for their events to help them with improvements for the next season. Be sure to include the praises for their event, but you could also include a comment that it looked like some teams were larger than 10 kids.


    6. Message by: 5engineersoftomorrow 11/17/2004 18:04:42 GMT
      On the other hand, I have been in workshops where teachers say their whole class participates in the research and building--it's integrated into their classwork. The kids who show up on game day are either "the 10 who didn't have soccer and thus could make it that day" or "the 10 who are most interested" or some variation on that theme.

      --Mary
      Rookie Coach


    7. Message by: CrazyBots2004 11/17/2004 18:06:06 GMT
      First off - we don't get to work on it every day. I am the computer teacher & I have each class twice a week for 45 minutes. Because of our location and economics there are no after school practices. So I get the kids for 1 1/2 hours a week. We work as a group from the start of school until about a month after the challenge is released. The whole program fits very well into teaching search skills, how to find quality information. Prior to the challenge being released the class finishes out search skills by doing a research paper on how computers can help the handicapped - remember we knew the general theme of the challenge in May. This is a help later when they apply for what jobs they want. Because of their original research paper I got 2 researchers this year who are not what you would call great students, they just found a subject they really liked. And no, they did not use the paper they originally turned in for the project, the idea wouldn't have matched up with the public places part. Even though the challenge has been announced we then move onto simple enigineering, simple machines, building strong structures and simple programming. EVERYBODY builds a robot (working in groups of 4). About this time we are the end of Oct & we apply for jobs. Now some of the kids are really enamored of their robots, but have no interest in the rest of FLL (presentations, research, the finer points of building & programming). But they want to try out their robot on the playing field, which they will be allowed to do at the in school mini tournament. They also have jobs on the support team that they have to keep up with - like writing press releases, learning to use the video camera, keeping up the web site, etc. The tournament team is allowed to come in at recess 3 days a week for an extra 20 minutes each time. Part of applying to be on the tournament time is agreeing to miss some recess, and stay out of homework detention at lunch. Some kids can't or won't do either. I don't think running this in a class is very beneficial to the tournament team. There are a lot of distractions, just when we get into times up, there is time for setup & pickup. I also do an afterschool team at my own kids school & it is miles apart. We can focus in on problem solving & get more done. They have more complex robots & programs. But my in school kids get more out of it in terms of seeing there is more to life. In some cases no one in the family has been to college, and finding a reason to go on with school is important. Please do not imagine I have 20 kids working as a tournament team, in fact small teams are much more manageable (than 10 kids) and I think work better. Does this clear it all up?


    8. Message by: Super Nerds 1720 11/18/2004 21:22:14 GMT
      That is a very well written explanation. It is a very good experience for ALL students.

      BUT, even having all the students working for a month aftter the challenge is announced seems to me to be against the spirit. If you had the students apply for the psistions BEFORE the challenge is announced, it would be much more reasonable.

      Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to accuse you of this, but it would make it too tempting to choose the students who are more suited to the particular challenge AFTER they have worked on the challenge for a month.

      This is why I do not do FLL as a part of my class. I have 20 kids in each class. Only one of my team members is actually in one of my classes (I teach 4 classes of 20 students).

      Lowell


      1. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/28/2004 04:55:38 GMT
        "but it would make it too tempting to choose the students who are more suited to the particular challenge AFTER they have worked on the challenge for a month."

        I agree. Part of the challenge is not knowing in advance what the exact challenge will be from year to year.

        If all the students are working for a month on the challenge then it would be very tempting to base the decision of who gets to be on the team on who gives the best answer.

        But for many rookie teams, they haven't done anything like this before and learn to work together as they go. Part of what comes out of this is for kids to learn to work with each other's stengths and weaknesses. For example, it would be unlikely for all the team members to be good writers or researchers or good public speakers.

        Now there are schools that do have entire classes work on FLL together, but they also do multiple teams, not just one team. Or the class would work on unrelated robotics assignments or even a prior year's challenge then the actual team would meet at a different time.


    9. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/22/2004 18:26:45 GMT
      CrazyBots,

      I think you and your huge team is exactly what first is about. It's not about the robot or the awards, its about getting kids excited about science and technology. I think you are doing the right thing. Keep it up, maybe one of your kids will go on to be a great asset to society.

      Laura Melnik


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/22/2004 19:41:19 GMT
        Exciting kids is what FIRST is about, but it is also about following rules!

        -Skye


    10. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/22/2004 19:51:52 GMT
      Well, she only has 10 on her competition team. That's what the rules say.
      Last year at the national event there was a team with 20 kids. When we asked if they were all from the same team, they said it was 2 teams of 10, team "A" and team "I" (I forgot their names). The teams worked together to get to their state championship and team "A" won. Both teams came to the nationals because they all worked together. Still there were 10 on each team.

      Laura


    11. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 11/26/2004 07:55:47 GMT
      Last year, we attended a tournament where one of the parents told me that their team had 21 kids. When I said, "That's enough for 3 teams, she replied, somewhat indignantly, "But then we'd have to compete against each other." Since the awards were being announced even as we were speaking, I didn't pursue it further. My guess is that the parent innocently didn't know that teams have a size limit of 10, but the coach should have known. I have no idea how they divvied up their team's 10 participation ribbons -- they actually only had 3 kids in attendance because only 2 of their cars made it through the snow before a roadblock was set up on the freeway. Being a rookie coach and generally clueless, I didn't have the presence of mind to report it to the tournament director in a timely way. However, when we organized our own tournament this year, I was determined to avoid this situation by requiring that the coaches submit the name and age of each team member. They were permitted to change members until 2 weeks before the tournament, but we needed this info in advance -- one of our kids printed individual awards with each child's name and team, and we wrote in the name of the award on the day of the tournament after the judges decided who got each award.

      Asking for names and ages in advance adds a bit of bureaucracy, but reminds the coaches of the team size limit (there were only 10 spaces for student names on my registration form) and also catches students who are too old (unless they have December birthdays). If notified properly, the coach has the opportunity to rectify a problem in advance, rather than disqualifying a team after the fact.

      Yolande


Discussion: Coping with the Plague By: jemath857 11/28/2004 04:21:29 GMT
Has anyone dealt with trying to keep the momentum going when illness strikes. My family has been hit by the plague in the last 3 weeks, so in an effort to keep my team from being struck down, we've had to cancel a number of meetings. Our project is bascially done, so there's not research to have them do. I'd like to keep them moving along BUT not sure what to assign. The computers and table are here amongst all the nasty viruses. They're a rookie team of fourth graders...awesome kids but we're all still pretty green. Any suggestions?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/18/2004 21:29:01 GMT
    What a nasty situation. All I can suggest would be 1) a good disinfectant! 2) lend the equipment to a team member that could use it at home to make some progress. I always travel on Thanksgiving and will take the equipment with us to make some improvements. Its a pain, but we make progress in this otherwise dead time.

    Perhaps some other input from other coaches???

    -Skye


    1. Message by: IAFLLModerator 11/19/2004 20:26:17 GMT
      Additional advice:

      Call for backup: is there another parent who might be willing to let the kids meet at their house and simply be a warm body to facilitate activities led by the kids? It is at least time the team can get together to tweek what is done. Remember that robot performance is only a quarter of your overall score.

      Don't be too proud to say you need help: send out an SOS to the parents on the team saying that you need them to step up and take a more active role until you and yours are feeling better. Sometimes people stay on the sidelines until you holler at them that you're ready for them to come into the game.

      And lastly, this is a great "overcoming adversity/against all odds" story for you to tell at the tourney. Most tournies have an award category for this type of thing.

      Good luck and get well!


    2. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 11/20/2004 18:07:18 GMT
      Hope you can recover from being sick. I had a bad go of it too. I had a bad staf infection at the end of Oct. I had no one willing to help out. I had to call off 2 meeting, we ussually meet on saturdays. But I think we do ok, the only thing i think we are behind on is the project, but we will come up with something. Good luck and Happy Legoing.


      1. Message by: jemath857 11/21/2004 21:42:26 GMT
        I spent the afternoon in the emergency department yesterday, so needless to say we're not out the woods yet. Just love my kids. They met on their own at school during the week to practice their project presentation while I was home with my sick team member and sick myself- pretty awesome 9 year olds. My hubby and another dad are picking up the slack with the kids today while I deal with asthma complications from this bug. We're getting there but with our district competition two weeks away and Thanksgiving in between, it's going to be entertaining ... maybe the kids could just skip school that last week, so we could a little work done :) I guess things never quite go to plan - no sense pining over the "ifs and ors". Thanks for the moral and other support.


    3. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/28/2004 04:12:54 GMT
      Yes, do ask for another adult to volunteer to host a meeting at their place. Even if you can't directly work on robot performance, it would be helpful for the team to be able to practice their presentations.

      Have several adults pretend to be the judges and have the team members who are not ill practice what they are going to present and respond to example questions that a judge might come up with.

      If nothing else, the team could at least go over the missions and what they involve.

      Most teams will face losing momentum due to the Thanksgiving break and for those that have Jan tournments, they also have to deal with the Christmas break. So doing a recap and review session anytime the team has had a break is a good idea even if 100% of the team can't be there because of illness or other reasons.

      If at all possible, try to fit 2 meetings with everyone in after Thanksgiving before your tournament. If possible have the 2 operators stay afterwards and practice at the table before the event.


Discussion: National Tournament By: Robonation2431 01/18/2005 23:42:37 GMT
The kids on our team want to know where and when the national tournament is. I can't seem to find the information. Could someone point me to the right place?

We just went to our regional tournament and are now on to the state. We are very excited.

Thanks
Judy

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/22/2004 02:25:02 GMT
    The International Invitational is held at the same time as the National FRC competition. This year it will be held in the Georgia Dome in Atlanta Georgia some time in March 2005. The Director's Award winner from each state tournament is normaly invited to participate. Be aware that FIRST does not publish this event in advance as it is subject to change.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Robonation2431 11/22/2004 02:46:38 GMT
      Thank you. I think we will have a lot of work to do in the next three weeks to make that a possibility!

      Judy


    2. Message by: legopros451 11/22/2004 04:19:25 GMT
      Skye,

      Do you mean April, not March? The FIRST website says the National competition in Atlanta is April 21-23.

      John


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/22/2004 13:57:07 GMT
        Opps. Sorry. I was thinking of last years date!

        -Skye


        1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/22/2004 17:01:00 GMT
          Last year was April also! ;)

          RoboManiacs
          Team #9
          www.robomaniacs.org


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/22/2004 17:54:38 GMT
            (Working to remove foot stuck in the back of my mouth)...

            I guess the senility is more advanced that the doc thought!

            -Skye


    3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/22/2004 09:44:20 GMT
      Yes, the FLL International Invitational Championship is planned to be concurrent with the FIRST Robotics Competition Championship Event, April 21-23, 2005.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    4. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/28/2004 04:38:01 GMT
      In 2002, there was a small FLL invitational that was run at Epcot Center in FL at the same time as the FRC event. In 2003, the location changed to Houston and also ran as the same time as the FRC. Lucky break for us since we live in Houston and had won Director's Award for Texas that year and were able to compete in our own state. That year there were 26 teams at the invitational.

      Starting with 2004, the FRC moved to Atlanta for the next 3 years. April 2005, would make year 2, so this should be in Atlanta in April 2006 as well.

      In general a Director's Award winner from the various states is who is eligible to compete for the Invitational. But if the Director's Award winner for that state can't come, then 1st Place Performance can instead. Quite a few Director's Award winners don't go because of the added travel expenses involved. It does require a major amount of fundraising. I know for our team in 2003 if it hadn't been in Houston, our team wouldn't have been able to come.

      It was a great experience that our team members won't forget and it was just plain fun seeing all the big FIRST robots do their challenge as well.


    5. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 01/18/2005 01:13:01 GMT
      This question appeared under Fundraising, but hasn't been answered yet. Does anyone who attended last year's Championship in Atlanta have an approximate cost estimate of the in-city expenses (hotels, food, transportation to the venue)? Also, how did you transport your robot safely to the competition (via air and also from hotel to the Dome)?

      Yolande


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 01/18/2005 22:51:56 GMT
        Our robot transportation story from last year was interesting. We fly out of BWI, which is the designated testing airport for any new rule or regulation being considered by TSA. For this reason, we called TSA about 2 weeks before the invitational to find out how to best get through security with the robots.

        They told us that we would need to bring the robots in the day before our scheduled flight and leave them in the TSA office overnight. We could pick them up the next day when we went to the airport for our flight.

        We were not overly thrilled with this idea, but the thought of reservists with semi-automatics overrode our apprehension and we took the robots in a day early as instructed.

        I flew to Atlanta, the day before the team did, so I went to TSA and collected the robots before I proceeded through security to catch my flight. I was told to go through the hand-check line at security and they would wave it through.

        The hand-check person didn't like the looks of the robots at all. His only question while pointing at the RCX was "Does this thing have a timer on it?" He didn't like the answer he got either. He motioned for the reservists to accompany me back to the TSA office.

        I sat in the TSA office while my flight took off. I sat there while 3 more flights to Atlanta took off. Finally, they told me that I would be on the next flight to Atlanta. The only catch was, an Air Marshall would be sitting next to me.

        13 hours late and sitting next to a guy with a loaded weapon, I finally arrived in Atlanta with the robots. The only good thing to come out of it was that I got bumped to 1st class to sit next to the Marshall!

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/18/2005 23:04:24 GMT
          Holy Cow; What a story!

          I remember reading similar accounts from people attending the yearly Trinity Fire Fighting competition after 9/11. Stories of loaded guns and rubber hoses come to mind.

          I would think that shipping the robots Fedex in a crate would be the way to go. From what I understand, cargo does not get checked like luggage.

          -Skye


        2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/18/2005 23:34:40 GMT
          What an amazing story! Thanks for sharing that experience with the rest of us! It's a good thing you were flying down the day before the team!

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


          1. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/18/2005 23:42:37 GMT
            I think the Fed-ex idea looks pretty good. When we took our robot on the plane, there were no questions at all. Not even a turn it on request. But, we did have a ton of documentation with us.

            In a past life, we would fly around the world doing model helicopter demonstrations. It was good training getting helicopter that are taken apart through security. The tails of the helis look a lot like shotguns with funny shoulder rests.

            These little robots are a breeze

            Laura


    6. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/18/2005 03:20:38 GMT
      ManicMechanicMindstormers:

      I just posted a reply over on the other thread you mentioned which included our expenses from last year for hotels, food, and transportation. For that info, take a look there. In regards to transporting the robot to the competition, see the next message...

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    7. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/18/2005 03:39:49 GMT
      ManicMechanicMindstormers:

      In regard to transporting the robot to the competition, we opted to bring two complete sets of base robots and all attachments as a backup! We took the base robots (including RCX and batteries) as carry-ons and had no trouble at security. We were asked to turn them on at one checkpoint. They arrived in Atlanta with no trouble.

      The robot attachments were shipped in checked baggage, well padded in bubble wrap. We figured it would be safest to pack them up at home and not unpack them until arriving in the Georgia Dome. That actually led to quite a story which hasn't been told to this entire audience yet! Since you asked about transporting robots to the event, I'll take the liberty of telling the story... Below is an excerpt of the email I sent to my friend Skye Sweeney after the first day of last year's competition:


      [The scene: morning of the first day of the tournament, arrived at Georgia Dome and finally got inside a little after 9:00am]

      ... By this time, I have the reg. packet open and look for our schedule. As I mentioned, the judging was going to be done back-to-back-to-back for research, tech, and teamwork. 10 minutes for each, with 5 minutes to switch in between. All judging over in 40 minutes for a two-day tournament! It's now 9:10. Opening ceremonies involve all teams, start at 9:30, and run until 10:10. The kids open the boxes with the robot attachments in it, and find that two of our five attachments look like a kit that you would buy at Wal-mart -- almost 100% disassembled; only one attachment is 100% intact (fortunately, the transmission!), and the other two have minor problems. Apparently airport security had gone through the transit case and had problems repacking stuff. It is at this moment that I find the info on the judging for the day. We're the first team to be judged at 10:30. Pandemonium at this point. (Well, probably more accurately, "mayhem" at this point.) Some kids assemble the stuff to go on the A/V cart (remember, we need to be ready for research and tech at the same time), others making sure the bot is programmed, others getting out the backup attachments, others signing up for a practice table, and others asking where we should line up for opening ceremonies!

      Backup attachments also found to have been opened and disassembled (nice of TSA to leave little notes inside saying they opened and inspected!) One of the two de-constructed attachments is fine in the backup. Other is similarly in pieces, although better. Kids working on re-assembling -- what box is the team binder with the MLCAD instructions in, anyway? Fortunately, FIRST running behind due to the late start; announce that opening ceremonies will be delayed until 9:45 but that they'll start the judging on time! OK, so that really didn't buy us any time, after all!

      Robot attachments finally put back together at 9:42 am. Teams lining up for opening ceremonies. Fortunately, no set order. Our team jumps in at the end of the line, one other team sneaks in behind us. My eldest son stays behind to run the robot on the practice tables one time with the robot and newly-assembled attachments while the line is filing in. I watch from 100 feet away. Amazingly, everything seemed to work, except only two ice cores. My son rejoins us about 5 teams before we file around from the back of the main stage. ...


      Much later in the day, after our tech judging and "official practice round" on the tournament tables is complete, the team discovers that one of the attachments was incorrectly re-assembled in the frantic rush of the morning, so the ice core attachment was never going on correctly! It was at least fixed before the next day's real performance rounds!

      Lesson Learned - unpack and check the robot and attachments the night before, instead of waiting to do that at the tournament venue!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/18/2005 04:40:48 GMT
        Tears fill my eyes again...

        -Skye


    8. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/18/2005 04:18:19 GMT
      No wonder your team didn't want to talk much the first day of the competition last year.

      As for our method of transporting the robot - in a large sack with handles, like a gift bag. Carried on the plane and requested a hand check at the x-ray machine. We also brought pictures to show them (TSA) what it looked like and we all wore our team shirts on traveling days.

      Even with careful packaging, our ice core picker got bent, just enough not to work. The kids tried to figure it our, but they were not able to get it to behave just right.

      Lesson Learned - Practice, practice, practice once you get to the tournament. The Mindstorms Mayhem practiced a lot at the last world tournament and they were rewarded by winning.

      Good luck all who are going,
      Laura


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/18/2005 16:47:44 GMT
        Thunderbolts,

        Our team was pretty out of sorts in the morning last year. The first couple of hours until after the judging were characterized by mayhem. I'm sorry if you all tried to chat with us in the morning and we were distracted. I didn't realize it seemed like we didn't want to talk to others! By lunch time, the team had a chance to relax and mill about with other teams a little. But then came the "official practice round" on the tournament tables...

        That round was practically a nightmare for a team that had regularly run 400 point scores in practice and even once in competition. My recap of that round was also in my email to Skye from last year, and it reads like a comedy of errors:

        ... Quick lunch, then official practice round on official tables. Use tag-team approach. Mayhem results. Ice cores attachment refuses to go on; kids can't figure out what is wrong. Finally get the attachment on. Again, only two ice cores. MAV gives a dry launch. Rover mission delivers habs but then attachment fails to lift rover due to poorly attached attachment. Time up, but ref allows team to finish out since just practice. Robot succesfully lowers ramp, but when student goes to pick robot up, transmission drops off; transmission doesn't seem to want to stay on robot. I didn't even score the round. Probably about 200.

        Leave table, kids try to figure out what went wrong. Kids find that robot had main 3rd-motor-drive gear support installed one stud off. Ice core attachment was never going in correct place. Hab mods/rover attachment was not going on properly as a result. Find that the attachment plate for the transmission is missing; must have come off in shipping. All problems now accounted for. Run robot on practice table in tag team fashion. Robot runs without trouble. Students having real problems with transitions; one mission runs wrong program, MAV launcher forgets to load ball, transmission installer takes about 20 seconds to connect (rather than his typical about 5 seconds). (I wonder what happened -- they did it 400/400 three times in a row at home on Monday night!)


        However, the highlight of the whole first day for our team was working on the special alliance assignment with three other teams from around the country:

        ... Now time to embark on special assignment. Alliances of 4 teams. Robot / Teamwork / Research. Robot is to have teams work in sequence on a single table to do all missions. Teamwork is to make a team cheer for new alliance, including state/country names of each team in cheer. Research is to find out what "Six Sigma" is. Kids all work really well together. All clearly having fun. Smiles abound. Students having fun. I get a chance to talk to other coaches a little...


        The team did practice the tag-team handling a lot at the tournament. They practiced that night at the hotel (no mission table, but practiced transitions on a coffee table in the lobby) and we got up early the next morning to get a few rounds in on the practice table first thing in the morning even before the FIRST staff arrived! Despite the practice for the performance rounds, the team finished 13th in the performance competition with a score of 361. A different mission failed in each of the three rounds.

        However, the Wisconsin team, The Martian Exchange Students, had an incredible robot and excellent robot handlers. They were the marvel of reliability, scoring a perfect 400 in the official practice round, and then again in each of the three performance rounds. Yes, four runs at the table, and four perfect 400-point scores! Even on the best of days, the Mayhem robot wouldn't even have been in that class!

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

        PS: My main regret from last year's tournament is not having taken more time to meet the students and coaches from all of the other teams that were there. I hope to make time to do that this year!


    9. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/18/2005 17:05:49 GMT
      Guess what, the Martian Exchange Students made the World tournament again. I don't know it they are running 400s this year, but ...


      1. Message by: 01/18/2005 17:19:16 GMT
        Deleted


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/18/2005 17:21:17 GMT
        I don't think the Martian Exchange Students have had a 400 in competition yet this year, but they did win the Wisconsin Performance Award with a 385.

        With four more months to work on the robot, I dare say there will be lots of teams with very high scores... I think more teams achieved perfect scores in state tournaments this year than last year, so scores of the top teams will surely be very high at the World Festival.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

        PS: There were also two other teams at last year's International Tournament that achieved maximum 400-point scores in competition. They were the "Lego Pros" from Southern California and "Robolution" from Delaware. For those that may be interested, I've attached an Excel Spreadsheet with the performance round results from last year's International Tournament.


      3. Message by: SMART 1 01/18/2005 17:39:46 GMT
        This is great information on previous invitationals (now World Festival). Those of us new to the international event really appreciate learning how the event works from those who have been there before.

        I hope other teams will share their experiences as well!

        Thanks,

        Peter


Discussion: Adult Tournament By: spacegirls544 12/14/2004 23:50:39 GMT
A number of coaches have expressed a desire to hold an adult (or even an "open") tournament. I'm going to attempt to co-ordinate all the interested parties via email. Feel free to forward your contact information to me at paul@web2xml.com, and I'll try to get this organized.

Paul Tan.
paul@web2xml.com

  1. Message by: whs94 12/06/2004 15:04:26 GMT
    My team is hoping to persuade FLL to create two divisions; a junior and senior division. They will be too old to compete next year and are very distraught about this. If so many adults, college students and teens are using Mindstorms then why not encourage the growth and expand the competition ages.

    Laura Stevenson
    laura.stevenson@weymouthschools.org


    1. Message by: SMART 1 12/06/2004 16:34:04 GMT
      Laura,

      Have you had a chance to see the FIRST High School Robotics competition? Incredible stuff. If you haven't had a chance to see the high school robots in person you should have a look.

      A couple of high school teams were running our first qualifier this year, and they really inspired us.

      - Peter


    2. Message by: whs94 12/06/2004 16:47:01 GMT
      Isn't that much more complicated and expensive? I have seen Quincy MA team Hyper. Wonderful stuff but I don't think I would be able to get the proper support for that program. That is why I would like to see FLL expand this version to include the grades 9-12 over 14 years of age bracket.


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/06/2004 16:53:45 GMT
        I agree. The FIRST stuff is cool, but our local teams need $40K to support the teams each. It would be cool to have FLL be broken up into divisions. Maybe grade school and middle school in one group and high school in a second.


      2. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/06/2004 16:56:18 GMT
        I think it was Wisconsin that tried a high school division of FLL. I remember reading the report. What caught my eye was that the scores were lower than the normal FLL teams!

        I have talked to FIRST about this myself. I am very sad that this will be my last year as my son ages out. FIRST likes the idea, but can't support it at this time. They are still trying to get FLL established in its current form.

        This conversation was 1 year ago. Things may have changed in the meantime. Another chat with them may be in order.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: See-More 1298 12/07/2004 02:14:32 GMT
          Hey Skye - you don't have to age out!! You can still coach a team and your son can be a team mentor. What will FLL be like without you?

          Marie


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/07/2004 03:58:16 GMT
            My son will be in marching band next fall. The season starts in the middle of summer and meets twice a week and weekends. He would have no time to even mentor a team. I can't imagine having a team and not having my son involved in some way.

            I may offer to mentor a team outside the home. That might be lots of fun. I would not have to deal with all the nasty stuff and just have fun with the team. But we will just have to wait and see....

            If any coaches in the Nashua NH area are looking for a somewhat experienced mentor for next season, let me know!

            -Skye


            1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/07/2004 15:38:55 GMT
              Hi Skye,

              There is always a spot for you here. You could move. We have marching bands here. And it going to be in the low 80s today.

              Laura


        2. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 12/08/2004 07:51:40 GMT
          It doesn't surprise me that the high schoolers had lower scores than elementary/middle school students -- they have more distractions and responsibilities. However, I still believe that there is great value in having FLL available to older students, even if they don't score as well.

          At our local tournament, which was held primarily to expose the community to FLL, the greatest interest was shown by students from the junior college where I work, not elementary/middle school students. When I contacted FLL about trying to host a hybrid JC/FLL tournament, where JC students could compete locally but not at official tournaments, I was told that teams outside the 9-14 age range are not entitled to purchase kits, even if they pay the $150 registration fee. They suggested trying to round up old kits from prior years for the JC students. However, holding 2 separate tournaments with 2 sets of scoring was too hard so I reluctantly had to drop the idea. This was somewhat frustrating, as the JC students are the types that FLL is trying to appeal to -- at-risk students (there's a reason why they're not at Stanford or MIT) who probably wouldn't necessarily pursue or succeed at science & technology without help, but with might with inspiration from a program like FIRST.

          It's a shame that students who miss the age window and discover the program too late have to miss the boat. It seems that having an open age division would give second chances to people who could use it.

          Yolande


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/08/2004 13:53:52 GMT
            I may have this all wrong, but my IMPRESSIONS from a conversation I had some time ago is as follows.

            FLL was initially targeted to middle/elementary kids as they already had the high school FRC program. There are lots of competitions at the college level (concrete canoe, solar car, ...) so they did not want to go there.

            When FLL started to take off, they were 'surprised' at the request from older kids to join. With only about 4,000 challenge kits being make by LEGO, they had to allocate them somehow. They elected to support the original target audience.

            I am not privy to the relationship between FIRST and LEGO, but I believe that LEGO supplies the challenge kits for free. Yes, you pay $50 for them, but that goes for shipping, handling, and other administration costs for the LEGO and the mat. I suspect that LEGO has set a target cost they are willing to underwrite and that is in the 4,000 kit range.

            I also believe that FIRST is not willing to over expand the program too quickly. Often, a program will self destruct if you do so. They are building the program up with support to the tournament partners and working to support all 50 states and other European countries. Get a good foundation and you can build a tall building.

            I suspect there is a long range plan for the inclusion of other age groups in the challenge. But I would guess it is still a few years away. What would be involved I have no idea, but I wish them the best.

            -Skye


            1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 12/09/2004 20:24:08 GMT
              The main advantage of FLL (and the Mindstorms system) over FRC and college competitions (solar car, etc.), is its reasonable cost for the range of complexity it encompasses. There are many teams and schools that could never afford an FRC team that can afford FLL (including mine), which means that many current FLL kids will be left with nowhere to go when they reach high school.

              In addition, because FLL is so new, there are many high school and college students (including volunteers at our local tournament) who missed the opportunity as youngsters to participate and wished that they could do so now. If FLL for high school evolves in a couple years, they will have missed the boat again.

              I've heard a rumor that FIRST is planning a program that involves a smaller, less expensive robot for high school. If they could extend that to include an open division for adults of all ages, that would be wonderful!

              Yolande


              1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/09/2004 20:42:18 GMT
                Yolande,

                I agree with your wish that FLL should be available to every person of any age from any country. But with limited resources, they have made a choice who to serve. It is certainly unfortunate that some people will miss the boat.

                If you are looking for adult competitions, I would suggest you research the yearly Trinity Fire Fighting competition. The last I saw, they had a LEGO division.

                -Skye


                1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 12/12/2004 09:16:40 GMT
                  First, I apologize for what will probably be a long, boring post. While I realize that FIRST can*t (and shouldn*t) set policy based on one team, I believe that our experience has implications for others in the FLL network could that extend far beyond our team.

                  FLL and the local communities that host it have a symbiotic relationship * FLL depends on volunteers in the community to promote its goal of creating a culture where science and technology are valued, and the communities receive opportunities from FLL to promote education and excellence, network with others who can inspire them, and bring home cool trophies. I understand that because FLL*s resources are limited, it has chosen to focus on the programs it SUPPORTS, but what I am hoping to see is the ability to think out of the box (think "innovative solution") on the types of activities it PERMITS, particularly for its relatively less structured local events.

                  Our team is the only FLL team in a county of over half a million people. After our wonderful first tournament experience last fall, it became my goal to see that FLL was established in our community with a broad enough base so that if one person left, the program would endure (yes, I*m aiming to work myself out of a job :-) ). Attempts to interest others through word-of-mouth and demos were unsuccessful. Because more than half our team would *age out* this season (including my son), the window of opportunity for us to share FLL was rapidly closing, so we decided to go all out and host a tournament in our city in a last-gasp attempt to spread the word. To make the tournament happen, my team of 4 families had to *cash in* on just about every favor we had coming, and then some. More than 30 volunteers from the community who had no association with FLL assisted in publicizing and running the event, including high school and jr. college students. In many ways, our tournament was a success: we had 10 excellent teams spanning a geographic range of 400 miles, extensive media coverage before the event, ~ 300 spectators (of whom about half were families of visiting teams), and a dozen or so inquiries from excited people asking about the program. Normally, I would be elated by this kind of response. The problem was that of the dozen interested people, only one was connected to an elementary or middle school student! Don*t get me wrong * one inquiry is better than none, and you can be sure that I*ll attempt to support this mom of a middle-schooler in every way possible if she decides to coach a team. However, the final decision to coach a team will be hers, not mine. The high school and JC student volunteers, who were extremely helpful with the tournament, and who were excited and intrigued by the robotics could have provided critical mass and momentum in keeping robotics going long enough to attract the younger students to FLL. If we could hold a hybrid event (with FLL-eligible and non-eligible students being evaluated separately) we wouldn*t be totally dependent on the decision of the one potential coach. Without any local residents participating, holding a tournament here next year would be even less likely to attract local people to the program. As it is, if this potential coach comes through, we*ll buy an extra year of opportunity for FLL to catch on (although I still won*t be able to lapse into cushy retirement). I hate to even think about the *if not* alternative.

                  I understand that allowing older people to participate in local events requires allowing them to purchase the subsidized Challenge kit, which seems to be the sticking point right now. However, I have heard that a program for high-schoolers has been discussed which does not involve the purchase of a subsidized kit. If so, I would urge FIRST to permit local events to admit people outside the age range to compete, even if those people cannot participate in any official FIRST events.

                  Yolande


                  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/13/2004 03:25:41 GMT
                    Yolande,

                    I share your distress. Before FLL, I was involved with Cub Scouts. I was a den leader and "Mr. PineWood Derby". In my normal style, I ran classes months in advance for the kids and parents, make a slide show on how to make a car, did demonstrations, build a test track for my son's use as well as making it available for others. I also ran the Derby, including upgrading their track with the latest in timming technology. We had door prizes, and other events to keep the kids interesting during a fairly long race day. I did it for 3 years. People loved it. When I left scouts I even volunteered to help the new group their first year. The NIGHT before the race, I get a call asking if I happened to know where the track was. I did, as it was still hanging from the rafters in my garage. What were they thinking?

                    As you well know, a programs only survives if there is a champion. I was very sad to see the Pinewood Derby fall apart, but short of running the program into my senility, there was nothing I could do. The same thing happened to FLL when I left the elementary school. What had been a powerhouse disolved overnight.

                    But opening up the Pinewood Derby to adults to keep it alive is probably not a resonable solution. The program is for kids. So why did I post a request for adults interested in an FLL competition? I was speaking to the coaches that like me must frustrated to no end at having to hold our tongues during the season. I want a chance to try out MY ideas and make an idiot of myself in front of my team not invite my next door neighboor.

                    Am I against a high school program? No I am not. I think FRC is horribly expensive. I would love to see an FLL type program at the high school level that is much more cost effective. But I also believe that FIRST is doing the right thing my putting their energy on the current target audience.

                    And now an idea that just came to mind. Pair a high school team and an elementary school team together. In the fall the kids use the purchased materials. In the spring, its the high school kids turn. Modify the challenge for the older kids like some of the suggestions that have been made here to keep them from having a head start. FIRST might not have the desire to put resources to this idea, but nothing says YOU can't. You just can't fly the FIRST/LEGO/FLL banner.

                    -Skye


                    1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 12/13/2004 20:33:13 GMT
                      Skye,

                      Thanks for the great ideas --- I'm always open to hearing the gory details of what's worked (and not worked) for others. It's obvious that we're going to have to chart an unconventional course here, but I have to be grateful for what we DO have, even if it doesn't fit the FLL mold.

                      Yolande


                      1. Message by: Wildcats2263 12/14/2004 23:50:39 GMT
                        Yolande,
                        You might want to look at www.robofest.net. This is a program that uses Mindstorms, but is open to older kids as well as younger. Started here in MI, but it looks like they're open to spreading to other areas. A project for you for next year!
                        Monica


                  2. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/14/2004 07:43:29 GMT
                    In my part of the country, the high schoolers that don't do FRC, do BEST robotics. BEST operates by corporate donations. They have hubs with about 10 teams per hub and then compete in regional followed by a championship event. Some of the communit colleges serve as hub locations.

                    BEST robots appeal seem to be those that like doing mechanical things. They use remotes, like radio controls. At the end of the BEST season, teams return all their materials and they get recycled for the next year's challenge.

                    BEST's good points is that teams didn't have to come up with a big registration fee, but the drawback was not nearly as many teams could compete in general as something like FLL or even FIRST.

                    When you talk about robotics here, many companies will assume you mean BEST. So we always had to eduacate them about what FLL was and what it involved. It's very difficult to get funding in general, there's so many other programs that are competing against each other for the same sponsors.

                    I know in my area there there's Minstorms/Pitsco kits gathering dust, but it's very hard to get information to the local schools about the opportunties that FLL present.

                    It's also very, very hard to find venue space to hold events, that's always a big challenge each year for those who put on competitions here.

                    Susan


      3. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/14/2004 07:29:13 GMT
        That suggestion is made every year. Something that would be great to see, but I don't see it happening as anything official.

        Now VA did do a senior one last year, where they did the older kid's challenge in the spring, after the FLL regular season was done.
        Go here for how they did their pilot program
        http://www.ext.vt.edu/vafll/
        http://www.ext.vt.edu/vafll/registrationgrant.html
        "This is a Virginia-supported program, not a FIRST program, so coaches and team members may NOT contact FIRST with questions."


    3. Message by: whs94 12/06/2004 17:02:31 GMT
      Do you know someone in particular, by name we could send our request to? Even if it doesn't happen this coming year, atleast they will know there is growing interest. I would be able to get more support at the higher levels than at the primary. The middle school is all over it!!


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/06/2004 17:08:56 GMT
        The director of FLL is Mrs. Maenhout. May as well start at the top! I would wait a while before starting a dialog. They are up to their eyeballs with all the tournaments with month.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 12/06/2004 20:36:44 GMT
        The official FIRST contact page is at the url of http://www.usfirst.org/about/contactus.htm

        As Skye Mentioned, Anna Maenhout is the director for FLL.

        --ken


    4. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/14/2004 07:23:45 GMT
      Our daughter is too old for FLL but what we've done for the past 2 years is help other teams get started. We've even judged at a few FLL competitions. It's been kinda fun to go visit these other teams without having the day to day responsibility of having a team come to my house 2-3 times a week. Some of the families who were on our past teams have gone on to form their own teams (the 1st place performance team in Houston was part of team for CitySights).

      We started back in 99, shortly after we first bought our first Mindstorms set. In 99 we didn't even get the table built, but from 2000 on went great guns. I've explained FLL to hundreds of people over the years.

      We've also done quite a few different robotics demos at events to introduce people to the concept of FLL. Many still haven't heard of it.

      We had looked at FRC but it's apples and oranges. The Programming aspect has always been our main interest. We aren't hardware people at all and would be no help with the engineering required for the FIRST high school robotics. The big appeal about FLL is you can do it was just a small group of kids in a small space with just a little bit of money.

      We did look at Botball but it's too costly for what you do, and not as exciting looking and part of the big fee is for everyone to wear the same tshirt.

      My husband did a quick look and found 83 different robotics competitions currently available. The Robocup looked interesting, especially the dance aspect of it.

      I do understand FIRST wanting to not move to fast with FLL. It's grown by leaps as bounds. Ironically as it has grown, it's been harder and harder to find Mindstorms sets. Most of the add-on kits had been discontinued. Many of the teams we know end up getting kits from ebay. But LEGO isn't currently selling the 2.0 RIS upgrade CD as a stand-alone, so that make it hard for teams that find older kits.


Discussion: Helping a Friend By: Fantastic5+1 12/11/2004 04:43:38 GMT
Hi everyone. I'm speaking for a friend here because he can't access the forums with his account. My friend has been doing quite a bit of work, but the team is not letting his efforts show in the final presentation at the tournament. What should he do?

  1. Message by: IAFLLModerator 12/06/2004 21:48:02 GMT
    My advice is to first have your friend talk to the coach or mentor privately to discuss his concerns. Maybe this could be solved if he and coach could talk about it and get the team talking about their best strategies in relation to everyone's work. The others on the team might not realize that your friend's feelings are hurt. They might be looking at it from what is best overall or what they can get done prior to tourney day, rather than looking at each individual's piece of the pie.

    You might also tell your friend that being part of team and being a gracious professional often means that you have to put aside your own feelings for what is best for the team. There are times when the final product might not have your work in it specifically, but that doesn't mean you can't be happy for the team or that you did not contribute quality ideas and concepts to that final product. Sometimes we forget that something we say, do, or create could give inspiration to others to take it to the next level. It doesn't mean that we didn't do anything, quite the contrary. When you spark the imaginations or inventiveness in the rest of the team you are very actively contributing.

    It is hard to work on a team and allow others to take your ideas and run with them, give others the credit, and be unselfish with who did what in the end. You might have heard this before, but it remains true...there is no "I" in team. What the team does at tournament as a whole will be reflected in their scores and potential awards, not the work of one person.

    Help your friend find a reasonable solution by being a good listener, encouraging him to talk to his coach or mentor, and help him find the courage to speak up for himself when the need arises.

    Best Wishes,
    IA FLL Moderator


    1. Message by: Fantastic5+1 12/11/2004 04:43:38 GMT
      Thanks. My friend now has a part, and they are doing great in the tournament.


Discussion: Seeking tips for public school after-school clubs By: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 12/26/2004 09:09:19 GMT
Although all our team members are from the same public middle school, we have been a home-based team for the past 2 years, primarily for economic reasons. There's a possibility that part of the team could morph into an after-school club at our Title I middle school, but we'd have to address several issues first. Any answers to the following would be appreciated.

1. How is your team funded? Non-school suggestions are especially appreciated. Our school's extracurricular budget was cut 50% 2 years ago and hasn't recovered since.
2. How do you weed to a core of small, committed members? For our home-based team, we only invited kids who could show respect for property, since my son volunteered his allowance-bought RIS kit for team use. We also collected money up-front, which increased the commitment of both kids and parents. Neither of these strategies work for a public school team.
3. Where do you store the plethora of stuff, especially the FLL table? If we ran a club, the coach would most likely be a parent, not a teacher.
4. How do you inexpensively acquire the extra parts helpful for building a "thinking out of the box" robot? LEGO system pieces are easy to find a yard sales, but Technic pieces like gears, beams, etc. are hard to come by. LEGO shop-at-home used to have a great package of gears & differentials for $5, but that's been discontinued. Do you know of any other sources besides LEGO shop-at-home and PITSCO?
5. Are there other issues that you've encountered that I haven't addressed?

Yolande

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/06/2004 22:03:29 GMT
    Yolande,

    I used to be a school based team and went to home based due primarely to political reasons. I love the freedom of being my own boss, but do miss the partial PTO funding.

    Here in NH, BAE Systems runs a grant system that pays for the registration and challenge kits for something like 40+ teams. I have been lucky enough to have had the bulk of my costs covered in this way as a school and home based team. The rest of the funding comes from up front payment.

    When I was a school team, I would lug the LEGO to and from the school for each meeting. The table was left at the school. We had a locked wood cover over the table to keep fingers away. The mission models were removed and taken home. Part of the kids jobs was to help me move all the equipment to and from my car.

    WWW.bricklink.com is the ideal spot to buy LEGO. Think eBay for LEGO.

    Consider a hybrid solution. Run the club from your house but have enrolment from your school. You get the schools insurance, and yet you can set the rules (within reason).

    -Skye


    1. Message by: IAFLLModerator 12/06/2004 22:17:15 GMT
      Yolande -

      Many of our state teams get sponsorship for "home" teams from local industry. Some of them write a letter from the team requesting financial and/or mentor assistance that gives a description of what they hope to do with that year's challenge or how it will impact them going into a science, math, engineering, or technology-related career. Most companies will have a foundation that they can refer the letter to or find it so endearing that a group of kids wrote them a letter wanting money, that they are willing to help.

      Another way to raise the annual fees is to ask one of the parents' employers or civic organizations to help pitch in for the fee and then the team could wear that company's logo on their t-shirts, be named by the company, etc. I've even heard of a team who got approval to show off their robot and challenge kit in a auto sales showroom with a jar out for people to donate money to them.

      Would your team be willing to write letters or a small proposal to foundations who might support youth programs? You can find out about many foundations on-line.

      One year, I heard of a team who did odd jobs around town to pay for their fees. They worked hard, but they also got a lot of recognition in their community. They also did a raffle and earned quite a bit of money through a donated quilt. Creativity and flexibility are key.

      In terms of the "stuff" -- anyone willing to use the rafters of their garage for that table when you aren't using it? I know it gets to be a lot to do and store.

      I think it is great you are wanting to ensure the future of your team - kudos to you! Given the holiday season, maybe your team could do gift wrapping or holiday decorating for people for a small fee? Holiday errand service? Bake sale? Give a talk to the local rotary?

      Just ideas, good luck!


    2. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/06/2004 22:23:56 GMT
      Hi Yolande

      We have always been a school based team and always been self funded. The school provides a central location for our kids to meet. The school is a megnent type school with kids coming as far as 50 mile to go there.

      1> Funding - The last 2 years, we did bake sales or car washes to afford the entry fee. And more for skirts and robot kits.

      2> we had 22 kids show up for first day FLL. They all stayed and we have 3 teams now. each is self funded. They have done various sales, gotten donations from local companies or whatever.
      As far as picking the best kids, sometimes your choice (as a grown up) will lead to a very flat team. We take anyone who comes, but we have rules. When you break a rule, we let the kid know and we let the parents know. Since we are a school based team, we have to follow some level of school protocol, so 3 strikes and you are out. Our strikes are posted to the parents and they must sign them.

      3> Be creative - This year we have teachers begging for the table. I made a cover for it out of white board material. The 3rd grade room we are in uses the table every day to do math on. The whole class can fit around it.
      Under the table is a black lock box from Home Depot. All our stuff is in it.

      4> You can ask each kid to bring in a technic set to Donate (not returnable) to the team. These Lego are then kept by the coach forever. There are also sales that you can buy the good sets at. And Bricklink.com everything you could ever want.

      If you do go school based, don't fight the school. They are not going to want you there if you tell them how to run their school. Let them tell you what times you can meet (within reason) and understand that school require background checks and finger printing. You also must understand the rules of kids at school, they can't go anywhere alone, they can't be checked out by anyone except the person you have on file. If a parent does not show up to pick their kid up, what is the process. ......

      I like the school team.

      Laura


    3. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 12/07/2004 17:46:48 GMT
      1. Funding - I am the president of the Society of Women Engineers at Western Michigan University and our sponsors donate money every year. If there is a parent who works for a large company and the parent will work with the group, the company more than likely will donate a few hundred $ under the schools name for your club (tax write off).

      2. Last year, because of team size limitations, we made the kids write essays about why they wanted to be on the team...then the group of coach sat down and selected the team, it helps to have a teacher there who knows the kids and how they behave.

      3. We are lucky enough to have the schools science teacher as the club "advisor" so we can store everything in his room. During times when we don't want to leave it there we haul it back and forth in my SUV. It helps to make a frame for the mat that can fold up so it can be moved easy. Usually we store everything but the frame and mat in a large plastic box for easy hauling.

      4. We have only had to buy one thing outside of the kit and I purchased that for my kids.

      5. Remember to send letters home to parents every couple weeks so they stay in the loop...the parents this year have been a god sent. I don't know how we would have made it to state without them.

      If you have any questions about the corp. tax write off (or anything else for that matter) please feel free to drop me an email. Good luck!! Carla :)

      Coach
      Blue Cheesy Flamingos


    4. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/14/2004 07:57:26 GMT
      Funding - Chickfila Calendars - easy sell because they contain free food coupons. One year our team made $500 off of them. Because they are free food coupons, people buy more than one so that each of their family members will have their own coupon for that particular month. Last year one of the robotics clubs made $1800 off of calendar sales. Now their members really pushed hard, even setting up booths at local stores. One of our kids had a grandpa whose house was located next to a stop sign. He set up a table at the end of the driveway with a robot on display and the calendars and sold quite a few when people who stopped for the sign would ask what the robot was for.

      We never really asked for donations. Instead we sold ad space on the back of our team tshirts. Since it was an advertising expense, that was easier for the company to help out than since we weren't a non-profit, but just an informal club.

      I do know some groups that have run successful bake sales. They don't put prices on the food items, instead ask people to donate to their group whatever they would like to give and end up making more than if they had pre-priced.

      Our other sponsors tended to be companies that were connected with the team members, either where the mom/dad worked or family friends.

      Do come up with a press release/fact sheet that talks about your team and your team members can use that when talking to potential sponsors.

      Some first time teams will have each family put $50 in the pot toward fees. Or have each family bring a package of batteries each meeting. Our first couple of years, we mainly paid for the fees out of our own pockets.


    5. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/14/2004 07:59:15 GMT
      Some teams go look at either ebay or look for stores that have overstocks. You rarely see these at garage sales. Some picked up kits from toy stores that went out of business.

      A couple of years ago we picked up lots of Sybots kits at Fry's at half price, they also used to have Minstorms sets, but those are long gone now.

      Also you can ask teams that won't be back next year if they would consider selling their kits.


    6. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 12/26/2004 09:09:19 GMT
      Thanks for all the great suggestions. They're of great help to my successor who will eventually be the one to decided whether the team is school or home-based.

      It's my hope that the team can eventually move to the school. I have always liked the idea of programs like FLL being available to disadvantaged kids, but starting a new team without a clue of what I was doing, I wasn't prepared to handle the potential flood of members (the Math Olympiad team I coached at the feeder elementary started with 60 members, and the middle school is much larger). Now that I've gotten to pass the baton, we're hoping that with a coach and a mentor, we can establish FLL a bit more deeply in our community. We appreciate all the advice.

      Yolande


Discussion: ping: Skye Sweeney By: FreedomEngineers1678 02/07/2005 03:52:13 GMT
We were at the Va State Tournament this weekend. A fun time was had by one and all. Saw something I didn't think was possible, a score of 400. Quite impressive. Our robot did not function as well as expected on the tables but that's just the way it goes. It did, however, take home the Robot Design prize for division 1. The team was rather impressive during the judging.

Anyway, that's not why I'm writing this. As part of the closing ceremony, a video was shown and I noticed that it was produced by somebody named "Skye Sweeney". I made an assumption that must be you. I just wanted to say nice job. And eventhough I have not participated much in the discussions in these forums, I have done a lot of reading of other posts and you always have answers and help for those of us who are fairly new to this adventure. I wanted to say thanks.

Lloyd

  1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 02/07/2005 02:52:56 GMT
    Skye,

    I don't know how much longer the forum will be open, but I also wanted to thank you for yet another year of thoughtfully and knowledgeably answering even the most inane of questions. Wish we could clone you!

    Yolande


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/07/2005 03:52:13 GMT
      Thank you. I will put a DNA sample on file.

      As I have posted in the past, the effort I put into FLL is in part repayment for a bunch of middle aged men that changed my life. When I was a teenager I was interested in radio control model airplanes. The club I joined was mostly middled aged men as they were the only ones that could afford the sport at the time. I received a vast amount of help from these people. Any questions I had (no matter how stupid) were answered. Expensive equipment I needed became available at ridiculously low prices. In short I became the club's civic project. It worked. They took a very poor student and turned him into an aerospace engineer. For that I have an eternal debt that I am just barely making my interest payments on.

      -Skye


Discussion: Good skill By: fll-freak1328 12/11/2004 05:09:09 GMT
Just a word to all you teams competing this weekend. I am sure you are all as tired as I am. It has been a real push these last few weeks to get everything done in time. I wish you the best of skill.

I will not wish anybody luck. You all have plenty of skill. Just assembling the mission models took skill. Hands up; how many of you got it right the first time? So at the very least we learned to follow instruction. In the grand scheme of things that is not a bad skill to have!

We have also learned just a little bit about those of us that have disabilities. Some may be visible and some may be hidden, but we all suffer from some limitation compared to the "average". Anybody want to take a stab at defining the 'average'?

So win, lose, or draw, the season has been a success. I am only sad that this will be my last as an active coach. I may mentor next year. I may make another mission movie. I may hang up my shingle and move on to something else.

To all my cyber friends: "May all your robots drive straight and your programs be bug free".

-Skye "dog tired" Sweeney

  1. Message by: marist 12/11/2004 04:40:45 GMT
    Skye,

    Thanks for all of your help on this forum and I can't wait to see the movie.

    -- Peter


    1. Message by: FreedomEngineers1678 12/11/2004 05:09:09 GMT
      I saw the movie last weekend at the Va State Tourney. It was very good.

      Thanks,
      Lloyd


Discussion: Tips from the pros?? By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 12/14/2004 07:00:30 GMT
Hi,
We went to our state tournament this past weekend and met some very impressive teams. Ours came in the middle 90 teams so we are not feeling too bad. As a first time coach with a brand new team I need some help. Here are a couple things I am wondering about:

1. How many hours a week do you practice?

2. How much time is spent on each thing (decorations, reserach, robot, etc.)?

3. How did you define your team structure? Did everyone do everything or were they divided up by team structure?

4. How did you prep your team for the competition and speaking with the judges?

5. At what point did you finish each thing(decorations, reserach, robot, etc.)? Was there a certian order?

6. How many meeting did you have as planning before beginning each thing(decorations, reserach, robot, etc.)?

7. Our attachments were not as dependable as some I saw, is there some place I can go to learn some basic princapals about building them to be sturdy and quickly attach?

8. We also saw some robot designs that were outstanding...is there a place that I can go to get some ideas for next year?

Sorry for all the questions..my kids are already excited to start for next year LOL.

Thanks so much for everyones help during the season, it was one of the reasons we made it to state.

Hooked on FLL!!!,
Carla Siler
Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/13/2004 18:51:34 GMT
    1. 2 meetings at 2 hours each, but we are a veteran team. We did 6+ hours a week our first year. Double those times the last two weeks.

    2. 25% of meeting time is spent on research and other aspects. 75% on robot. Homework is mostly research and other stuff.

    3. They all do everthing to some degree. We have a master programmer and a master builder. They help the others with the hard problems.

    4. Find grumpy mean and ugly adults for them to talk to! Our first year, I dragged the team to my work and made them to their presentation and robot runs in front of 60 engineers that asked some tough questions. Ask hard questions yourself.

    5. One is NEVER done. I do impose a code freeze at the end of our second to last meeting. We only practice that last meeting.

    6. For a rookie team, the coach must guide the team in what to do when. There is also a huge learning curve on programming that must be gotten through. During this time you can be talking about the other stuff to get their creativity flowing. For a veteran team they can pretty much start on tasks from day one.

    7. Read the on line book "Building LEGO robots for FLL" and buy as many of the Mindstorms books as you can afford.

    8. Same as 7

    -Skye


    1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 12/13/2004 18:57:54 GMT
      "Building LEGO robots for FLL"
      I know I saw this link somewhere in the forum but I can't find it again, where can this book be downloaded from?

      Also where can I buy these mindstorms books, any local bookstore or is it a special order things through lego?

      Thanks so much!! Carla :)

      Coach
      Blue Cheesy Flamingos


      1. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 12/13/2004 20:01:21 GMT
        Here's the URL:
        http://www.usfirst.org/jrobtcs/BLRforFLLV1.0.pdf

        Enjoy, it's quite a read!
        Courtney


      2. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/13/2004 20:05:00 GMT
        My local Barnes and Noble and Borders have Mindstorms books. You can also get them from Amazon.

        -Skye


      3. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 12/13/2004 20:18:06 GMT
        Here's a page with a variety of links you may find useful.
        http://home.comcast.net/~poudre-fll/resources.htm

        Enjoy,
        Courtney


    2. Message by: RoboManiacs 12/13/2004 20:14:02 GMT
      Hi Carla,

      1. We meet two night per week for 2 hours each. We meet every night for 2 hours for the last 10 days before a tournament.

      2. We spend roughly 40% research, 40% robot, 20% everything else.

      3. We have 9 kids. They are split into "Mission Teams." We build 3 identical robots for the 3 mission teams. Each mission team is assigned 3 of the tasks on the board to complete. Every member works on the research in some capacity.

      4. I have volunteers come in once a week. The kids perform their research and answer questions.

      5. We continually "improve" all aspects. We had each mission team complete their first assigned task before we introduced the research.

      6. We try to "plan on the fly." The very first meeting we set goals. They are still hung in the room. The kids get to cross one off when it is met. Most of their goals for the year are still unmet as of now.

      7. Ditto Skye's answer. I have it in PDF if you need it.\

      8. See above.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


    3. Message by: Pennichuck1376 12/14/2004 04:05:13 GMT
      Interview with Ken Streeter

      Hi Carla - Before the FLL season began, I talked Ken Streeter, co-coach of last year's international champion team Mindstorm Mayhem into answering questions that a new coach would have about running a team. In the busy-ness of the season, the interview was lost in the ether ... but it now as been found, so read on. Ken answers all of your questions and more (including the top secret answer to "how do you make your robot go straight?"). Read on here: Interview with Ken Streeter



    4. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/14/2004 06:49:32 GMT
      We followed a similar format each year.
      In the spring, we might have meeting or two to recruit potential members. In May, go ahead and register even if we don't know all the team members since mats/field elements are shipped in team number order so you can at least see the mat by August (if you are team 4,000 you will get your mat/manuals much later than those in the first 1,000).

      Over the summer we might meet twice a month, then a few weeks before the challenge is revealed, we start meeting once a week. The main purpose of these meetings is for the team members to get used to working together and to go over programming concepts for those who haven't used Mindstorms before. These type of meetings were a mix of informal/instructional. We always had a show and tell period for those who liked to build to come bring in their creations. We would also take this time to review past challenges/the format of FLL, fill in parents on what to expect.

      Usually by summer, you at least know what the major theme of FLL will be for that year, so you can start collecting general research materials. Even though you don't know the question until mid-Sept, if you know the topics is Mars, you can go read about Mars, or visit a planatarium, for example.

      This would also be a time to work on fundraising and approaching potential sponsors. We sold Chickfila calendars and would do that in Aug/Sept so we would have enough money to get team tshirts by Oct. The team would also work on a press release that provided a fact sheet about FLL and a team intro. Sponsors were likely to step forward if they understood what the kids were doing. Being able to hand those sponsors a press release helped.



    5. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/14/2004 06:51:57 GMT


      The first few meetings during challenge time is normally spend with building the playing field and going over what the actual challenge missions are. In other words, what is the problem for this year.

      Then the team would decide who whould like to do what roles (we never assigned roles and did let kids change roles if they wanted to try out something else). We'd pick a team name, have kids start thinking about tshirt colors and design, that type of thing.

      In general we had groups of kids that were programmers and other ones that were more builders, with a few others that like testing the robots once they were built. The collaborated effort was probably the hardest for them. The adult role in this was more crowd control and making sure ideas didn't get stepped on.

      When we were into our regular meetings, we would meet for 2 hours twice a week. We did a snack and rotated who brought them. It's not that they were that hungry but more that it helped them to break the ice with each other and take a break. If you have a lot of 9 year olds, they won't sit still long for planning. so did that part as the start of the meetings before they touched the robots. A 10 minute recap of what everyone did the last meeting.

      Reseach tended to be more done outside of regular meetings, but some meetings were devoted to nothing but research once it got closer to competition time.

      Sometime after tshirt came in, we would take a team picture and submit a press release to the local newspaper. A short paragraph that talked about FLL and mentioned the upcoming competition we would be attending. Every single year we went to a competition, we were in local newspapers at least once. Sometimes it wasn't until after the event was over, but that was ok.

      For the day to day meetings, we also had the team document what they did. Either handwrite it or email it in. Even if it was only a sentence or two. That went into the team notebook and was helpful to see what had been tried for that year's challenge.



    6. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/14/2004 06:54:34 GMT
      When we recruited potential team members we were always up front about the amount of time involved. We always had at least one kid drop out one reason or another before the event, but in general the ones that were at our meetings by the second week of the challenge were the ones there for the long haul.

      We had the team do a lot of brainstorming, it was always interesting to see what type of ideas they would come up for presentations. When we were close to competition, we would have the parents pretend to be judges so that they kids could get used to doing a presentation. For many of them, they weren't used to doing presentations. Some of the more quiet ones had problems with not projecting their voices, but that improved the more they practiced what they were going to say. The hardest part of presentations was getting it down to just a few minutes. They like to talk and always had so much material, that it would have been easy to talke for way longer than 3-5 minutes. But the extra materials went into a notebook that the judges could look over.

      For the robot design, the kids always tried different things. Each year the design and program would vary depending upon the challenge. We used Robolab one year when our main programmer was on a Mac but for other years used RIS. They used a combination of different types of sensors. Much of it was trial and error, especially when it came time to actually time the round and see how much could be done in 2.5 minutes. Each year the challenge field requires slightly different approaches. For example, last year because of the red mat, many teams didn't use light sensors. The volcano year you needed a robot that could go up a big incline (or have a really long arm).

      The robot was never done, but you reach a point in the season when you just say stop and quit fine tuning it. Otherwise you end up starting from scratch too many times too close to the event.

      The kids would decide in advance who would be the operators. When it got close to competition, we would have just the operators either stay late or come for a different meeting time to practice, practice, practice. During the competition itself, they are handing off parts to each other, so it's good if they work on timing. This is especially important if you are going to do tag team and have more than just two kids be operators.

      We've done all different sizes of teams. The year we won Director's Award we had 10 kids, plus siblings plus parents at our house, so it was chaotic. But one year we only had 6 older kids and it was very calm and quiet.

      There's quite a few resource available related to building and programming robots. I put what I've been able to find on the book section of my robotics website
      http://www.jsoft.com/archive/robotics/
      Most of the bookstores will carry one or two titles but you can also sometimes find them in your local libraries.

      thanks,

      Susan


Discussion: points By: RobotRulers776 02/02/2005 19:39:43 GMT
How many points on an average do the best teams score in the 2 and a half minute time limit?

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 12/13/2004 22:22:34 GMT
    Usually, somewhere between 300 - 400 points. As the season gets later, the high scores tend to go up.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: RobotRulers776 12/13/2004 22:27:30 GMT
      DO TEAMS REALLY GET ALL THEIR NINE MISSIONS DONE WITH ONE RCX BRICK IN TWO 1/2MINUTS


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 12/13/2004 22:31:19 GMT
        Yes. Perfect scores are rare, but do happen. At our qualifier 2 days ago, one team missed a perfect score twice - each time their robot almost made it to the top of the stairs. They ended with 2 scores of 355 points.

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


    2. Message by: RobotRulers776 12/13/2004 22:38:24 GMT
      ARE THERE ANY TEAMS THAT THINK THEY HAVE ALL NINE MISSIONS DOWN PACK


    3. Message by: See-More 1298 12/14/2004 01:14:44 GMT
      In Va at the state tournament, we saw a team get a perfect 400 - with 10 seconds to spare! Very impressive.

      Marie


    4. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 12/14/2004 01:26:59 GMT
      NH State Top 8 Teams Qualifying Round Scores

      As an example of scores posted by the top teams, below are the scores of the top 8 teams at the NH State Tournament on 11 Dec 2004. The NH tournament has a single-elimination playoff after the three initial rounds. I wasn't able to record all the scores from the playoff rounds, but here are the top 8 performance teams based upon their scores during the first three rounds. Yes, you would have needed a 326 to make the top 8 in NH. (Please note that these are unofficial scores from my notes, and may contain errors.)

      RankTeam NameHighR1R2R3
      1EAGLES37556349375
      2McKelvie Dark Seers357274190357
      3The Munchkins357230357265
      4MCA Minds in Motion351218351231
      5Nitro Hogs339339329324
      6Batteries Not Included335319289335
      7Mindstorms Mayhem33429920334
      8Robotic Trees326326163222


      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem



    5. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/14/2004 08:07:23 GMT
      Those are really good scores.

      At the Houston competition only 2 teams got above 300, there were quite a few in the 200s and a vast middle of the 74 teams with scores in the 100s and I saw at least one or two 50s.

      In Dallas last Saturday, the top score was in the 300s, but for the other teams most were in the 100s-200s.
      One team did 3 missions each time, their score was 111, 111, 111.


    6. Message by: Bremen Botz! 02/01/2005 19:40:52 GMT
      We were able to run a 402 in our regional qualifier, and a 405 in the Indiana State Tournament. The Directors award winner ran a 400 and edged us out by .08 in the overall core. Granted the 'over 400' scores require a little 'help' from the other table, but we did our part.

      The 402 run was done with about 15 seconds left over. We just received the video from the competition and I will be encoding our run and posting it to the web soon.

      Les Turner
      Bremen Botz! 121 & 4159


    7. Message by: RoboManiacs 02/01/2005 19:59:40 GMT
      At the Maryland state tournament on January 29th, Team #191 Technodudes ran 3 scores of 400 & 1 score of 405. Two occurred during the 3 competition rounds & the other 2 occured during the final head-to-head match!!!!

      Congratulations Chris & Technodudes!!

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 02/01/2005 20:05:13 GMT
        Bremen Bots and RoboManiacs:

        I am curious as to whether or not any of the 400-point runs you have seen were by teams that used a "one-at-a-time" side ball delivery strategy, or were these scores all by teams that used a "all-at-once" approach for the side balls?

        From what I have heard so far, every team that has achieved a 400-point score within the time limit did so using a "all-at-once" approach for the balls. I would be very encouraged (and applauding wildly) to hear of a team that managed to reach 400 points in competition using a "one-at-a-time" approach for the balls to the basket.

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


        1. Message by: RoboManiacs 02/01/2005 20:51:31 GMT
          Ken,

          The Technodudes from Maryland, with their 4 400+ scores, had a wind-up drone that delivered all 8 balls at one time. It was remarkably accurate - being built with a wide tolerance for positioning.

          BTW - see you in Atlanta! :-)

          RoboManiacs
          Team #9
          www.robomaniacs.org


          1. Message by: thunderbolts11 02/02/2005 16:18:40 GMT
            The thunderbolts also had 3 400s, and they used a pull back and go all-at-once approach.

            Laura


    8. Message by: DragonForceX1080 02/02/2005 18:01:18 GMT
      I am missing something here. How is the robot able to leave the base will all 8 balls at one time? The rule states "The Robot can only leave Base with one Ball at a time and each of the 8 Balls can only leave Base once." I did not see any team doing all 8 balls at once at our tournaments since the robots always left the base with one ball at a time. Does this wind-up device get moved to outside of the base and then the robot makes multiple trips to put the balls into it?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/02/2005 19:39:43 GMT
        You can read the 50+ messages on this issue here:
        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?13@@.ee96d60

        -Skye


    9. Message by: RoboManiacs 02/02/2005 18:05:49 GMT
      The rules state that the robot can only leave base with one ball at a time. If the balls are not on an object that is part of the robot when it leaves base, then all 8 can leave at once.

      As I understand it, as long as the robot sets something in motion, then breaks contact with it before leaving base (making it no longer a part of the robot by definition), then all the balls can leave at the same time.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


Discussion: friends By: Projekt Lightning 12/13/2004 23:31:27 GMT
*hey, lego guys! good luck on lego tourments:)

  1. Message by: Projekt Lightning 12/13/2004 23:31:27 GMT
    hello fello lego guys, we would like to hear about yall and get to know yall.;)


Discussion: driving bases By: RobotRulers776 12/14/2004 21:34:07 GMT
We are a new team and are having trouble finding a driving base that will work for all missions. We had different robots for different missions untill we found out that you can only bring 1 RCX, 3 motors and 2 sensors to the table. Does anybody have any sugestions on what type of wheels to use, etc. THANK YOU!

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/14/2004 03:06:16 GMT
    The fact that could not find one type of driving platform to do all your missions is fairly normal. Many teams will made modifications to the robot as the match progresses to do various things. I saw a robot once at the end of a match that looked nothing like how it started off. Since LEGO snaps together, use that to snap of various assemblies. Not just to manipulate objects, but to move as well. Or use a basic motion platform and brainstorm ideas on how to use that platform to solve the troublesome missions.

    As an example, I have seen several off the wall methods for getting up on the platform this year. None of them included driving up the steps.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: RoboManiacs 12/14/2004 16:56:00 GMT
      My favorite so far is the team from Maryland (not mine) who approaches the steps from the side, then has their robot flip itself upside down onto the platform. It was a thing of beauty and got a standing ovation from the crowd and all of the teams at the event.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


    2. Message by: RobotRulers776 12/14/2004 21:34:07 GMT
      Thank you very much for your input


Discussion: Personal Property By: Fantastic5+1 12/14/2004 08:21:21 GMT
Hello FLL contestants. The tournament has finished, but my RIS kit has been mixed with the team's, along with about 100 other parts. When their kit was reinventoried, they are blaming us for all part losses. We don't know if parts were left at people's houses. This is almost robbery. The whole team blames us. What should we do?

  1. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/14/2004 08:20:18 GMT
    Sounds like your team needs to have a team meeting to resolve this. Have everyone look at their houses and bring in any spare parts they find and do the inventory again so everyone can see exactly what pieces, if any are missing.

    Is this what the coaches are saying as well? Or is this just other kids telling you this? Was this a team decision that any missing pieces come out of your kit? Rather than focus on blaming each other, what the team needs to do is come up with a solution that is fair to everyone involved. In other words, it doesn't really matter why it happened, what does matter is where you go from here.

    If after your team does a recount of all pieces and there are missing pieces such that both the team kit and your kit are not complete, one possible solution is buy extra pieces out of any team funds that are left to create two complete kits.

    What you can do in the future is clearly label your pieces so they be easily picked out from other kits.


Discussion: balls By: RobotRulers776 12/14/2004 22:02:51 GMT
if you have a robot that has a catapult that is attached it and is inside the base can you opperate the catapult by yourself.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/14/2004 22:02:51 GMT
    HALT! You only need to ask your question once! Unlike IM, these messages and answers stay here forever. After you post a question, you may have to wait a day or two for an answer.

    Your question is facinating. With the lack of last year's green button rule, I would have to say that on the surface you could. The only problem is that the robot must leave base at least partially before scoring points. Once it has partially left the base and you touch it, it must be returned fully in the base for another mission attempt. You might be able to figure out a way around this issue. If you do, I would pass it by FIRST before using it in a tournament.

    -Skye


Discussion: equitment By: RobotRulers776 12/16/2004 08:22:53 GMT
do any of your team alow the kids to bring the mindstorms equitment home to work on it?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/14/2004 22:55:42 GMT
    I have at times allowed a student to take home a completed robot to document it (pictures, number of parts, enter into MLCAD, ...). I do not allow kids to bring their own LEGO, nor do I let them take loose parts home. It is just to easy to loose track of who owns what.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 12/15/2004 21:19:57 GMT
      MLCAD? Is that a type of CAD software? Carla :)

      Coach
      Blue Cheesy Flamingos
      Team 952


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/15/2004 21:47:30 GMT
        Yes, It is a CAD program specific to LEGO. Very nice for saving designs away. See my software robot page at www.fll-freak.com.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 12/16/2004 08:22:53 GMT
      We rotate to different homes, and the host gets to work on the robot while it's at his home -- thankfully, the guys have been careful enough not to make major structural changes without the others present, although they have done significant programming on their own. All the pieces we use belong to one kid, with the exception of an RIS kit from another team member, which we keep in a box. Every time we open his box, we write on a post-it what was borrowed. All the parts stay in boxes in the host's garage to avoid mixing with the host's pieces.

      Yolande


Discussion: competion By: RobotRulers776 12/18/2004 19:37:02 GMT
When a team makes it to the final round what happens? Is it the same missions or do they make you do something harder? Also about how many teams make it to the finals? Finally what is the prize for winning?
thanks

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 12/18/2004 19:37:02 GMT
    The final rounds will involve the same missions as the earlier rounds. It may be "a little harder" in that the robot handlers may feel a little more pressure to do well. (Then again, some handlers actually become more focused under pressure.) Also, the team on the other table is likely to be able to put the ball in the center hoop a little more quickly than in the earlier rounds. (Or even be able to take an opponent's ball out.)

    The number of teams that make it to the finals in a tournament depend upon the tournament setup. Some tournaments do not have "playoff rounds" for finals, but just use the highest (or average, or average best 2 of 3) score from the three rounds. For those tournaments that do have finals, the number of teams that make the finals can vary. I have been to tournaments that had no final round, had 4 teams, 8 teams, or 16 teams in the finals, and even on e tournament where every team made the playoff rounds, which were a double-elimination tournament!

    Prizes for winning vary from simply public recognition of the achievement, to a certificate, to a trophy.

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: How long does this forum stay open By: FreedomEngineers1678 12/18/2004 20:26:16 GMT
My son and I are getting ready to learn Robolab in preparation for next year. I was just wondering if this forum gets shut down at some point and refreshed for next year or is it open all year round?

Thanks,
Lloyd

  1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 12/18/2004 19:37:06 GMT
    Hi,
    There was another posting somewhere in this section with the same question...I belive it said that this gets shut down around april or may. They had a couple other suggestions for external forums to go to. I know I have already been out to a couple of them :)

    Carla Siler
    Coach
    Blue Cheesy Flamingos


    1. Message by: FreedomEngineers1678 12/18/2004 20:26:16 GMT
      thanks Carla, I found it and the links

      Lloyd


Discussion: stairs By: RobotRulers776 12/18/2004 21:01:27 GMT
Can the robot get on top of the stairs from the side or does it have to go up the steps?
Thanks

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/18/2004 21:01:27 GMT
    Since it does not say otherwise, you can approach the stairs from above, below, besides, next to, near, far away, ...

    -Skye


Discussion: forklift By: RobotRulers776 12/18/2004 21:02:45 GMT
If you have a forklift on the field can you make it extend to over more than 16 inches?
Thanks

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/18/2004 21:02:45 GMT
    You should consider reading the UFAQ at www.fll-freak.com/faq

    You will read the analogy of a fire truck and how it has to fit inside the garage at night but had better be able to extend to save lives.

    -Skye


Discussion: Mindstorms Books...Suggestions? By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 12/22/2004 06:24:23 GMT
Hi,
I have been looking at some different mindstorms books...Are there any specific ones that people really like?

Some of them tend to focus more on certian thing like programming, any suggestions on a couple good books for structural design? I want to be able to take these to our workshops over the summer and let the kids look through them.

Thanks so much for everyones help!!
Carla

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 12/20/2004 07:06:17 GMT
    My son's (and my) favorite for structural design is "Building Robots with Lego Mindstorms", by Mario & Giulio Ferrari, selected from about a dozen books which my son has read or built from cover-to-cover (I've only skimmed about 5 of them and read "Building Robots" in detail).

    Yolande


    1. Message by: AtkinsonNH210 12/22/2004 06:24:23 GMT
      For stuctural design with a decidedly FLL slant, you can't do better than Dean Hystad's wonderful online book, "Building LEGO Robots for FIRST LEGO League":

      http://www.hightechkids.org/hightechkids/download/BLRforFLL-Version1.3.pdf

      Best of all, all it will cost you per copy is the cost of reproduction!

      - Scott


Discussion: 2 rotation sensors in '05? By: Team454 01/03/2005 03:26:57 GMT
What do you think? My 9 year-olds had a pretty discouraging experience at the tournament. All their carefully timed turns were off by 50% on the tournament mats. They're not supposed to cry.

Is there a good reason for the limitation to a single rotation sensor?

Compared to the expense in time and effort spent on the project, the cost of one or two more rotation sensors would be trivial.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/20/2004 13:49:54 GMT
    i Compared to the expense in time and effort spent on the project, the cost of one or two more rotation sensors would be trivial.

    Perhaps, but a good engineering challenge always has some kind of limitation to make you think hard about out of the box solutions. I am in favor of the one rotation sensor for this reason.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: SMART 1 12/20/2004 15:42:24 GMT
      I would agree. An important principle here is the concept of "closed loop" vs. "open loop" programming. In a "closed loop" the machine being programmed has an "absolute" rather than relative way of testing the success or failure of the program. You have to teach the kids how to analyze the environment (the board) to determine how their robot can tell in a much more absolute way where it is.

      That said, you could have 50 rotation sensors and not be able to get accurate turns. Almost everything works against you when you try to do dead reckoning turns. For example - wheel skidding, momentum differences based on strength of the batteries, the inherent limitations of the rotation sensor when using so few "clicks". Even having a table that isn't perfectly level (thus creating a mild "hill") would have a noticeable effect on turns. I've had cases in the past where time was more accurate than rotations for certain robots (usually because of a lot of wheel "skidding" which kills using the rotation sensor).

      The beauty part is that there are both mechanical and programming solutions to many of these problems. So the teams can really come up with so many different ways to solve the problem.

      Regards,

      Peter


    2. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 12/21/2004 06:28:04 GMT
      There are lots of things you can do with a single rotation sensor on one robot, including the following:

      1. Measure distance (X clicks = Y inches). More accurate if wheels on both sides are driven at the same speed, or if a dual differential drive is used.

      2. Measure degrees of turning (pivoting) (X clicks = Y degree turn). Works best if only one side is driven. The number of clicks differs for left and right turns, depending on which side the sensor is mounted on.

      3. Detect if a barrier has been hit. If the rotation sensor is mounted on a non-drive wheel, detecting no change in sensor reading over a period of time indicates that the wheel (and robot) have stopped, even if the drive wheel is still spinning.

      And many more than these!

      In addition, there are ways to make a touch sensor mimic a (crude) rotation sensor using a cam.

      We like rotation sensors (can you tell?), but they're not magic. There have been times when we had to use timing because the precision on the rotation sensor wasn't great enough, and times when we used a touch sensor to detect the position of a wall or other barrier because neither rotations nor timing were accurate enough.

      Hope your 9-year-olds have a better experience next time. They're still young and have lots more opportunities.

      Yolande


    3. Message by: jemath857 01/03/2005 03:26:57 GMT
      I am so sorry to hear that your kids were disappointed. I too have a team of 9 year olds, so I understand. It is particularly tough when they are competing against much older and experienced kids. They can feel like they've failed even though they have accomplished do much.

      I opted not to teach light sensors this year and we relied soley on rotation sensors for our navigation. I remind them before very tournament trial that competition is something different altogether. Things WILL go wrong and that they know what they've accomplished and that is what matters. Our team cheer is a call and response and goes like this:

      What did we know when we started? Nothing!

      How many missions did we do? Five!

      GO JEMATH!

      Focus on the positive. Best of luck.


Discussion: robot By: RobotRulers776 01/15/2005 02:12:42 GMT
can the robot touch the top of the wall to help support it and to keep it going straight?
Thanks

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/21/2004 22:34:51 GMT
    When the robot first starts from the base, it must be fully inside the base. The base is defined as the inside wall of the border. This means that initialy you can't touch the top of the border. But once the robot has been activated (see rule: STARTING POSITION) it can then extend out over the border and touch the top of the border.

    Danger Danger Will Robinson:
    Not all competition tables are build the same! Some may have obstructions in various locations to support the lights. They may not all be build to the drawings as provided by FIRST. I have seen tables were the supports were at the corners of the tables and not in the center. I have seen supports that rested on top of the border and not bolted to the sides. Note that you may not even have a smooth inside surface to the border! I have seen cracks, knot holes, and bolts on the inside surface that could be a show stopper to a wall follower.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: SandersTigers203 01/14/2005 23:49:31 GMT
      Can you control the robot from the labtop?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/15/2005 02:12:42 GMT
        Tigers,
        You may not control your robot from a laptop. The robot must be fully autonomous. The rules are quite clear that computers are not allowed in the competition area.

        From the questions your team has been asking, I think that you should re-read the "big five" documents. You can find them here:

        Rules: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14150
        Field Setup: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14160
        Missions: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14190
        Q&A: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14200
        UFAQ: http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

        -Skye


    2. Message by: SandersTigers203 01/14/2005 23:52:15 GMT
      The only time
      you can touch the robot is when its in the base if that, part of the robot is in the base then you can touch it other than that is will be a penalty.


Discussion: Reliability of Pneumatic Parts By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/20/2005 00:40:06 GMT
I was thinking about ordering some pheumatic parts. I was wondering if any ones uses the pneumatic part and if so how reliable are they? (Since they are air powered and the tempature does effect them do you have problems with them.)

Also has anyone used these to power the wheels? Does it work well? Or are they mostly used for attachments?

Thanks so much!!

Carla Siler
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 12/27/2004 20:30:26 GMT
    We have not used them, but there was a team at the last competition that used them quite a bit. We had experimented with them until one kid put them in water thinking the could have hydrolics. well, there is some metal in them, and well, now we have no pneumatic to play with.

    Laura


    1. Message by: 01/20/2005 00:40:06 GMT
      Deleted


Discussion: The "Eagle OverDrive" - Go Straight! By: Sharon Eagle Robotics 29 01/11/2005 15:21:31 GMT
The Sharon Eagle Robotics Unlimited team has posted a number of projects on-line, including the "Eagle OverDrive" - a simple clutch linkage added to a differential drive robot to enable it to go much straighter than normal, and still turn easily. Also, multi-RCX remote control (demonstrated with remote control RoboSumo), and details on missions and "Eagle Avatar" Project. Find the team web site at http://eagleunlimited.home.comcast.net/, and our sponsor, the Sharon Youth Robotics Association, at http://syraweb.home.comcast.net/.

  1. Message by: DarkMatter1187 12/30/2004 04:15:37 GMT
    A clever innovation! Thank You!


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/02/2005 02:21:55 GMT
      We also use a limited slip differential drive by use ribbed tubing rather than the clutch. We found that the clutch wore out quickly and provided changing turning dynamics over time. Have you found similar problems? Do you replace the clutch often?

      -Skye


      1. Message by: Sharon Eagle Robotics 29 01/02/2005 06:12:39 GMT
        As we mention on our web site, the EGO clutch gears do wear out - we had to replace it once during the season. The team reported to me that it failed in an obvious fashion, as our robot started pulling to the side, and one of the wheels was difficult to turn by hand. We always keep a couple of extra clutch gears in our spares kit.

        Except when it failed, the turning has been pretty consistent. We had quite a few runs during the season, including a tournament where we did 11 competition runs during the course of the day, and countless practice runs. We run with fresh batteries, no more than two runs per set (and then we pass them to RoboSumo use).

        With the large swing in specified force on the clutch gears, I suspect that not all of the gears are created equal. However, being able to count on a straight path was worth a lot to our team. The only big difficulty the team had was actually fitting the gearing inside our standard CoreBot design, without making it significantly larger, but it was already a fairly dense design.


      2. Message by: RoboManiacs 01/03/2005 20:27:04 GMT
        YOU DO WHAT WITH RIBBED TUBING?????
        So much more to learn...........

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/03/2005 22:39:47 GMT
          To make a limited slip differential transmission you need some way to share torque between the two motors but not have them directly connected. You can use lots of different techniques to do this. The Eagles used the clutch. We made (as per the suggestion in the online book "Building LEGO Mindstorms robots for FLL") ours from two axles and a bit of ribbed tubbing. Have the final stage drive axles (the one with the wheels) come close together in the middle of the robot. Slip a bit of ribbed hose over the axles to make a slipping connection. When driving forward, enough torque is transfered to keep the motors at the exact same speed. When turning, the axles slip inside the hose and the robot can turn.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: ScienceGoesBoink0002 01/03/2005 23:45:10 GMT
            We found another example of using the ribbed tubing on-line earlier and got really excited. We considered it but the tubing in the kit is a bit long. My understanding is that we can't cut it down to "a bit". Were you able to find a LEGO kit that had a shorter length tube or did you just make use of the longer tubing?


            1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/04/2005 00:05:02 GMT
              You can get ribbed hose in just about any length you want. Just go visit www.bricklink.com We are using a short bit from a StarWars kit. You can also raid this year's glasses for for short pieces.

              -Skye


          2. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/11/2005 01:22:57 GMT
            We read about the limited slip differential online and are thinking about using it next year....have you encouter any problems with the rotation sensor because of the torque? Or is it not enough torque to make that big a difference?

            Thannks a ton!
            Carla
            Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos


            1. Message by: Sharon Eagle Robotics 29 01/11/2005 02:23:12 GMT
              Carla:

              In our experience, the torque from the rotation sensor doesn't change the balance of forces anywhere near enough to alter either the straight tracking or the turning. I think that if it was binding enough to make the clutch slip and the robot turn, it would have a huge turning effect even without the clutch linkage installed.

              Note: most of our navigation is either straight or a differential turn (with motors turning in opposite directions). More subtle turns (such as changing power levels on motors to turn the robot off to the side gradually) could easily result in no turn at all, due to insufficient torque difference to make the clutch slip. This could effect some line following schemes, I expect.

              Ah well, nothing is perfect. We hope that you find the design helpful next year, and that your team has a great season! Please, let us know how it works for you.

              John coach of the Sharon Eagle Robotics Unlimited team
              syraweb@comcast.net


            2. Message by: Wildcats2263 01/11/2005 02:42:06 GMT
              Carla,
              We did run into a problem going straight this year that was finally traced to a rotation sensor. That particular sensor seems to not rotate as freely as the others we have, and when we used it on a robot the extra drag made the robot pull to the side the sensor was on. We weren't using a limited slip differental- but I'm thinking it sounds like a good idea to try! Anyway, once we swapped out rotation sensors, Petey was driving straight again. It must have had a flaw inside the sensor.
              Monica


              1. Message by: SMART 1 01/11/2005 15:21:31 GMT
                Carla,

                I suspect in swapping out the rotation sensor you ended up positioning the new one a bit better thus solving your binding problem.

                This is just a guess based on my team's experience. What we find is that the rotation sensor is very sensitive to positioning. As others have mentioned on the forum it is almost better to have it not "attached" to the robot and secure it with rubber bands or something.

                Since we hadn't done that we found that we had to constantly reposition the sensor and "play" with it before each match to make sure it wasn't binding. Sometimes we weren't lucky with unfortunate results on the board.

                Regards,

                Peter


      3. Message by: FreedomEngineers1678 01/03/2005 21:22:45 GMT
        We have been toying with using a dual-differential to help with steering. Is there some benefit to using a slip-differential as opposed to a dual-differential?

        thanks,
        Lloyd


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/03/2005 22:33:50 GMT
          In my opion...

          The dual differential (adder/subtracter) drive has two problems that (in my mind) make it not well suited for FLL. First is the amount of gear slop is so much as to overwhelms the gain you get. Second, only one motor is used for forward locomotion minimizing power you may need (like climbing stairs).

          A limited slip gets you the straight line performance you need with the power of two motors. Win...win.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: SMART 1 01/03/2005 22:56:47 GMT
            To add to that - I have a little story about using a limited slip.

            Our team was practicing a month and a half ago and noticed a bit of a left veer to the robot. Up till then it had been very straight. Well we struggled with it for a half hour till one of the kids noticed that one of the axles on the left side had been completely removed!!

            But instead of just spinning in a circle the robot still went relatively straight. Goes to show just how much gets transfered using a good limited slip differential design.

            - Peter


Discussion: glass box By: Robotik816 01/02/2005 02:19:43 GMT
Hi. We were wondering if the edge of the "glass box" around base is the sides of the table, or whether it's the edge of the black line on the mat next to the border. It seems like you could line the robot up against the two sides of the borders that are in base, rather than lining it up with the line.

thanks

Robotik, Team 816

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/02/2005 02:19:43 GMT
    The base is a rectangular shape with 6 faces.
    1) The horizontal surface of the mat.
    2) A horizontal surface parallel to the mat but 40 cm above the mat.
    3) The vertical surface that is formed by the inside surface of the long 2*4 border that the bus signs are on.
    4) The vertical surface that is formed by the inside surface of the short 2*4 border that the glasses are near.
    5+6) The vertical surfaces that are created by the black lines that form the rectangle on the mat called "BASE".

    As long as the robot fits in this volume, you can position it as you see fit. Up against a border, away from all surfaces, or up against the inside "glass".

    -Skye


Discussion: MLCad & Labview Questions By: Nerds 868 01/02/2005 22:42:59 GMT
I was curious is there is a 'mirror image' function on MLCad. We would also like to know if there is a way to merge two files. We have tools made that we would like to attach to our core robot. We have tried copying the tool and trying to paste it in another file but it didn't work.

Also, in MLCad we have made something that uses a motor 71427. When we try to view this file in Labview, the motors are see through and looks as if somebody has taken them apart. Is this normal? Is this a known bug? Does anybody else have this problem?

We downloaded MLCad and Labview a couple days ago.

Thanks

  1. Message by: Nerds 868 01/02/2005 14:56:35 GMT
    Here are the details of the errors I recieved. Please do not post after this thread to keep this string together.

    Concave quad split into two triangles.
    File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
    Line #466
    Line: 4 16 8 4 -5 8.48 3.68 -5 7.16 2.84 -5 6 2 -5
    Original Quad: <8 4 -5> <8.48 3.68 -5> <7.16 2.84 -5> <6 2 -5>
    Triangle 1: <8 4 -5> <8.48 3.68 -5> <7.16 2.84 -5>
    Triangle 2: <8 4 -5> <7.16 2.84 -5> <6 2 -5>
    Concave quad split into two triangles.
    File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
    Line #473
    Line: 4 16 4 8 -5 3.68 8.48 -5 2.84 7.16 -5 2 6 -5
    Original Quad: <4 8 -5> <3.68 8.48 -5> <2.84 7.16 -5> <2 6 -5>
    Triangle 1: <4 8 -5> <3.68 8.48 -5> <2.84 7.16 -5>
    Triangle 2: <4 8 -5> <2.84 7.16 -5> <2 6 -5>
    Concave quad split into two triangles.
    File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
    Line #480
    Line: 4 16 -8 4 -5 -8.48 3.68 -5 -7.16 2.84 -5 -6 2 -5
    Original Quad: <-8 4 -5> <-8.48 3.68 -5> <-7.16 2.84 -5> <-6 2 -5>
    Triangle 1: <-8 4 -5> <-8.48 3.68 -5> <-7.16 2.84 -5>
    Triangle 2: <-8 4 -5> <-7.16 2.84 -5> <-6 2 -5>
    Concave quad split into two triangles.
    File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
    Line #487
    Line: 4 16 -4 8 -5 -3.68 8.48 -5 -2.84 7.16 -5 -2 6 -5
    Original Quad: <-4 8 -5> <-3.68 8.48 -5> <-2.84 7.16 -5> <-2 6 -5>
    Triangle 1: <-4 8 -5> <-3.68 8.48 -5> <-2.84 7.16 -5>
    Triangle 2: <-4 8 -5> <-2.84 7.16 -5> <-2 6 -5>
    Concave quad split into two triangles.
    File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
    Line #494
    Line: 4 16 8 -4 -5 8.48 -3.68 -5 7.16 -2.84 -5 6 -2 -5
    Original Quad: <8 -4 -5> <8.48 -3.68 -5> <7.16 -2.84 -5> <6 -2 -5>
    Triangle 1: <8 -4 -5> <8.48 -3.68 -5> <7.16 -2.84 -5>
    Triangle 2: <8 -4 -5> <7.16 -2.84 -5> <6 -2 -5>
    Concave quad split into two triangles.
    File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
    Line #501
    Line: 4 16 4 -8 -5 3.68 -8.48 -5 2.84 -7.16 -5 2 -6 -5
    Original Quad: <4 -8 -5> <3.68 -8.48 -5> <2.84 -7.16 -5> <2 -6 -5>
    Triangle 1: <4 -8 -5> <3.68 -8.48 -5> <2.84 -7.16 -5>
    Triangle 2: <4 -8 -5> <2.84 -7.16 -5> <2 -6 -5>
    Concave quad split into two triangles.
    File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
    Line #508
    Line: 4 16 -8 -4 -5 -8.48 -3.68 -5 -7.16 -2.84 -5 -6 -2 -5
    Original Quad: <-8 -4 -5> <-8.48 -3.68 -5> <-7.16 -2.84 -5> <-6 -2 -5>
    Triangle 1: <-8 -4 -5> <-8.48 -3.68 -5> <-7.16 -2.84 -5>
    Triangle 2: <-8 -4 -5> <-7.16 -2.84 -5> <-6 -2 -5>
    Concave quad split into two triangles.
    File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
    Line #515
    Line: 4 16 -4 -8 -5 -3.68 -8.48 -5 -2.84 -7.16 -5 -2 -6 -5
    Original Quad: <-4 -8 -5> <-3.68 -8.48 -5> <-2.84 -7.16 -5> <-2 -6 -5>
    Triangle 1: <-4 -8 -5> <-3.68 -8.48 -5> <-2.84 -7.16 -5>
    Triangle 2: <-4 -8 -5> <-2.84 -7.16 -5> <-2 -6 -5>


    1. Message by: Nerds 868 01/02/2005 14:56:52 GMT
      Errors (cont.)

      Concave quad split into two triangles.
      File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
      Line #570
      Line: 4 16 8 4 5 8.48 3.68 5 7.16 2.84 5 6 2 5
      Original Quad: <8 4 5> <8.48 3.68 5> <7.16 2.84 5> <6 2 5>
      Triangle 1: <8 4 5> <8.48 3.68 5> <7.16 2.84 5>
      Triangle 2: <8 4 5> <7.16 2.84 5> <6 2 5>
      Concave quad split into two triangles.
      File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
      Line #577
      Line: 4 16 4 8 5 3.68 8.48 5 2.84 7.16 5 2 6 5
      Original Quad: <4 8 5> <3.68 8.48 5> <2.84 7.16 5> <2 6 5>
      Triangle 1: <4 8 5> <3.68 8.48 5> <2.84 7.16 5>
      Triangle 2: <4 8 5> <2.84 7.16 5> <2 6 5>
      Concave quad split into two triangles.
      File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
      Line #584
      Line: 4 16 -8 4 5 -8.48 3.68 5 -7.16 2.84 5 -6 2 5
      Original Quad: <-8 4 5> <-8.48 3.68 5> <-7.16 2.84 5> <-6 2 5>
      Triangle 1: <-8 4 5> <-8.48 3.68 5> <-7.16 2.84 5>
      Triangle 2: <-8 4 5> <-7.16 2.84 5> <-6 2 5>
      Concave quad split into two triangles.
      File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
      Line #591
      Line: 4 16 -4 8 5 -3.68 8.48 5 -2.84 7.16 5 -2 6 5
      Original Quad: <-4 8 5> <-3.68 8.48 5> <-2.84 7.16 5> <-2 6 5>
      Triangle 1: <-4 8 5> <-3.68 8.48 5> <-2.84 7.16 5>
      Triangle 2: <-4 8 5> <-2.84 7.16 5> <-2 6 5>
      Concave quad split into two triangles.
      File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
      Line #598
      Line: 4 16 8 -4 5 8.48 -3.68 5 7.16 -2.84 5 6 -2 5
      Original Quad: <8 -4 5> <8.48 -3.68 5> <7.16 -2.84 5> <6 -2 5>
      Triangle 1: <8 -4 5> <8.48 -3.68 5> <7.16 -2.84 5>
      Triangle 2: <8 -4 5> <7.16 -2.84 5> <6 -2 5>
      Concave quad split into two triangles.
      File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
      Line #605
      Line: 4 16 4 -8 5 3.68 -8.48 5 2.84 -7.16 5 2 -6 5
      Original Quad: <4 -8 5> <3.68 -8.48 5> <2.84 -7.16 5> <2 -6 5>
      Triangle 1: <4 -8 5> <3.68 -8.48 5> <2.84 -7.16 5>
      Triangle 2: <4 -8 5> <2.84 -7.16 5> <2 -6 5>
      Concave quad split into two triangles.
      File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
      Line #612
      Line: 4 16 -8 -4 5 -8.48 -3.68 5 -7.16 -2.84 5 -6 -2 5
      Original Quad: <-8 -4 5> <-8.48 -3.68 5> <-7.16 -2.84 5> <-6 -2 5>
      Triangle 1: <-8 -4 5> <-8.48 -3.68 5> <-7.16 -2.84 5>
      Triangle 2: <-8 -4 5> <-7.16 -2.84 5> <-6 -2 5>
      Concave quad split into two triangles.
      File: C:\LDRAW\PARTS\4019.DAT
      Line #619
      Line: 4 16 -4 -8 5 -3.68 -8.48 5 -2.84 -7.16 5 -2 -6 5
      Original Quad: <-4 -8 5> <-3.68 -8.48 5> <-2.84 -7.16 5> <-2 -6 5>
      Triangle 1: <-4 -8 5> <-3.68 -8.48 5> <-2.84 -7.16 5>
      Triangle 2: <-4 -8 5> <-2.84 -7.16 5> <-2 -6 5>


    2. Message by: Nerds 868 01/02/2005 15:00:54 GMT
      I have another file with a motor in it. When it spins, it doesn't move evenly - it changes speed as its spinning - the whole model. This files has no errors. Both files have only 1 motor.

      Thanks again.


    3. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/02/2005 16:24:06 GMT
      Nerds,

      i Also, in MLCad we have made something that uses a motor 71427. When we try to view this file in Labview, the motors are see through and looks as if somebody has taken them apart.

      I am very confused. How can you read the MLCad data file into LabView?

      -Skye


    4. Message by: Nerds 868 01/02/2005 22:42:59 GMT
      Sorry, I didn't mean LabView, I meant LDview, which is a 3d Viewer for MLCad files.

      If it's any help, I can attach the MLCad file for the 71427 that I have.

      Thanks!


Discussion: *random* FLL poem By: Robotik816 01/03/2005 17:51:53 GMT


  1. Message by: Robotik816 01/03/2005 17:51:53 GMT
    This was kind of inspired by "The night before tourney." Enjoy!

    Robotik, Team 816

    Humming quietly,
    In the garage,
    A team member clicks rapidly
    Through a barrage

    Of Lego programs
    That fly past the screen
    To pilot a robot
    (that sometimes acts mean)

    All over a 4 * 6 table
    Accomplishing tasks
    That were a challenge at first;
    But now a team member asks:

    "How can we make
    This bot more robust?
    'Cause surely we don't want the tourney...
    A bust??"

    So then he grabs
    Bricks, beams, axles and more,
    In the hopes of creating
    Attachments galore.

    Programs and attachments that work-
    All the time!
    Maybe a robot
    That turns on a dime!

    So grab the Ritz crackers,
    Get Mountain Dew-
    We'll be here a while
    Creating a new

    Robot that works so well
    Every team member stands, shaking,
    From pride and from joy,
    Even the coach is quaking!

    The coach praises the team
    And says "Good job everyone!
    But one more thing-
    It still is not done -

    You need research to present!"
    The coach says frantically,
    So the team gets to work
    (Of course, very coolly)

    The team makes a video
    To raise awareness of the need
    Of accessible places and things
    So take heed!

    So with the research all done
    And a great working robot,
    The team heads to the tourney
    With only one thought:

    "We did the work,
    Not the coach, not a friend;
    And we're SURE that
    We didn't bend

    And important FLL rules,
    But we're not here to win,
    Because we already have -
    We learned, worked hard and had fun,

    And that's really what counts
    (though it is nice to take home a trophy)
    Remember that, if your robot screws up,
    And faces are red, angry and poofy.

    Remember, it's not any special award;
    It's what's inside... What you learned, what you did.
    So remember, when things seam daunting next year,
    Dont. Fear.

    Just remember the FLL values-
    Teamwork, cooperation and learning;
    And maybe, just maybe,
    If you show the judges, you might be earning

    The coveted Director's Award.
    But if not, it's okay...
    You can always try again next year, anyway!


Discussion: Stairs By: RobotRulers776 01/04/2005 22:01:17 GMT
Can yuo use the stairs to help complete another mission or is it just the place where you end?

Thanks

  1. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 01/04/2005 22:01:17 GMT
    Nothing says you can't. Just have to be careful not to damage/move the stairs.

    Courtney


Discussion: Fence By: RobotRulers776 01/04/2005 22:27:08 GMT
If you a have a claw can you extend the arm over the gate to place the pets food in position?
Thanks

  1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/04/2005 22:27:08 GMT
    Yep,
    I saw team at both our local and state tourament use a claw to go over the gate and the fence. :)

    Carla
    Coach
    Blue Cheesy Flamingos


Discussion: Rotation sensor is geared up to improve accuracy By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/09/2005 22:33:33 GMT
I just want to say sorry upfront for the stupid newbie question :)

Rotation sensor is geared up to improve accuracy.
I read this online and I have to say I am confused...how can gearing up improve a rotation sensor?

Carla
Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/08/2005 20:51:05 GMT
    The rotation sensor count increases for each revolution of the axle that pierce the part. If that same axle is connected to the wheel, then each tick of the sensor is 1/16 of a rotation or the robot travels 1/16 of its wheel circumference.

    Now gear up the rotation sensor such that it rotates twice per wheel rotation. Now each tick will be just 1/16*1/2 or 1/32 of the circumference. In other words you have just doubled the accuracy that the sensor imparts on the robot. True the sensor has not gotten better, but your robot has!

    So why not gear up the sensor such that for each rotation of the wheel its spins 100 or more times? Because if you spin the rotation sensor faster than about 500 RPM its start to loose counts. 300 to 350 is the average speed of a standard RCX motor.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/09/2005 17:39:33 GMT
      Thanks for explaining that. It makes perfect sense and seems obvious now LOL. :)

      Carla
      Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos

      PS Skye, Thanks so much for all the help during the season! Your one of the reasons we made it to state this year :)


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/09/2005 22:33:33 GMT
        Glad to be of help. I am equally happy that you made it to states. Best of skill.

        -Skye


Discussion: Technical Judging By: twistedaxles638 01/18/2005 04:22:05 GMT
What kinds of questions do they ask the kids in the technical judging phase of the tournament? We're relatively clueless, would like to prepare, but aren't quite sure how one prepares for this phase of the tournament.

Thanks!

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/11/2005 15:39:05 GMT
    What mission are you most proud of.
    Who figured out to do that.
    How many sensors do you use.
    Why are you using this sensor.
    How did you come up with your strategy.
    Why are you doing this before that.
    What is the best feature of your robot.
    What is the worst.
    What software are you using.
    Who wrote the software.
    How did you learn to do that.
    Who built this gizmo.
    What is the triple integral of y = sin(2*pi*f*t)
    ...

    -Skye


    1. Message by: SMART 1 01/11/2005 17:23:42 GMT
      The most important things is for the kids to be able to demonstrate their expertise in the robot design and programming.

      Your "builders" should be very comfortable...
      - explaining the features of your robot and how they work
      - answering all questions of the "why/how did you decide to do it this way" type? It helps a lot to review your journal notes from the beginning of the season so the team can remember the history of your design decisions.

      Your "programmers" should be very comfortable...
      - walking someone through the programs
      - explaining the concepts used in the program (why did we use containers/variables etc.)
      - answer all questions of the "why/how did you decide to do it this way"

      It's also not uncommon for judges to asked the kids who helped them.

      I would also stress that it is critical that your team's FLL values show through here. I remember seeing a team where whenever there was any question there was one team member who _always_ answered and always phrased his answer as "I did this" or "I did that" while the rest of the team just kind of stood around. The thing is, if you haven't stressed the team concept all season long, it is difficult to demonstrate teamwork in front of the judges.

      Good luck,

      Peter


    2. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/11/2005 19:56:53 GMT
      In the second or third page of the team manual there is a list of sample questions that you can use to quiz your team with... I used them for my kids and it helped a lot :) There are also research questions and teamwork questions on the pages adjoining.

      Carla
      Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos


    3. Message by: twistedaxles638 01/11/2005 20:38:31 GMT
      Thanks!! ALL of this helps a great deal. :-D


    4. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 01/17/2005 07:10:41 GMT
      A few more questions we've gotten:
      What are some ideas that you tried that didn't work?
      How did your robot change from when you started to what it is now?
      Are there any features of your robot that you think are completely different from anything else that other teams have done?

      I also had the team assemble a box of "working discards" - attachments and ideas that were I thought were quite clever and worked, but that we didn't actually use in competition because something else worked better for that particular mission. At one tournament, there was enough time to show the judges a few of their gadgets.


    5. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/18/2005 04:22:05 GMT
      Our team brings a subassembly of special parts that are buried inside our robot that you could not see unless you were to take it apart. Some teams have special differential sets inside, judges like to see what the "Guts" look like and more importantly, ask the kids to explain how it works.

      my 2 cents worth.
      Laura


Discussion: competition By: RobotRulers776 01/13/2005 22:37:18 GMT
At the competition when you are about to do your presentation will the judges allow you to set up prior to the start time of the presentation?
Thanks

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/11/2005 21:39:40 GMT
    Fro research, you have 1 minute, the other presentations, there is no need to set up.
    Laura


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/13/2005 22:33:42 GMT
      A few hints for teams that may have trouble completing set-up for the presentation in the 1 minute allowed:
      • Practice the "set-up" as part of what your team practices when rehearsing the presentation. (When I coach Mindstorms Mayhem through final rehearsals of the presentation, we actually will do each rehearsal in a different room to have the team practice entering the room, setting up, giving the presentation, answering questions, dismantling what they set up, and leaving the room. The coaches pretend to be judges, and "judge" the team during the entire process. We'll then go to a different room and repeat the entire sequence.)

      • If you have anything that you normally do for "set-up" do as much of it ahead of time as you can. For example, in our 2002 and 2003 presentations, the team took a long time to power on a laptop, connect and power-on a projector, and set up a screen. This often took more than 1 minute. (Just the warm-up time for the projector was nearly that long!) At the 2003 NH State Tournament, we saw a team that used an A/V cart to simplify all that. The team I coach imitated that other team's idea for the 2003 International Tournament, and are glad to have added a home-made "packable" A/V cart to their research project toolbox.

      • If the team can take a look at the research presentation room prior to judging (i.e. at the beginning of the tournament day) it can be helpful to see the room to figure out in advance how to use the space, rather than having to determine placement (e.g. who stands where, where does the screen go, where is the screen, etc.) when walking into the room during the one minute of set-up time.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Batteries By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/18/2005 04:32:58 GMT
Hi,
I was told at our regional tournament that a certian type of battery worked better than others..is this true? Also how often do you change batteries when your practicing (to make sure the robot runs the same way everytime)?

Thanks for the help!
Carla
Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/11/2005 23:31:22 GMT
    "It all depends".

    A heavy robot or a tracked robot will need new batteries more often than a light robot.

    Alkalines have a bust of "super power" for 5 minutes before staying constant for a period of time before dying. We change sets, run the bot 5-6 times to "break them in" then get 6-8 runs before having to change again. The old batteries get used for practice or Gameboys.

    NiMH batteries have less voltage but are cheaper in the long run. They have a fairly flat discharge rate as well.

    Stay away from NiCads. The discharge curve is very poor.

    Your best bet is to start recording the voltage and robot behaviour. Over time you "will become one" with the robot and batteries. Just when you think you got it figured out, you will get a new robot and will have to start all over again.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: SMART 1 01/12/2005 15:52:15 GMT
      Ah, the battery discussion again.

      I was just thinking of buying "rechargeable alkalines". Is that the same thing as NiCads?

      I'm concerned about the discharge curve, but the advert for the rechargeable alkalines says that they work best when constantly recharged. Here is a link...

      http://www.rayovac.com/products/recharge/rec_alk.shtml

      and a quote...

      "Rechargeable Alkaline Batteries like to be charged! Frequent charging, before your batteries are completely drained, will maximize battery performance and provide the greatest savings. "

      Any thoughts? I don't want to waste my money, but if we can get consistent high power that would be a pretty good thing.

      Definitely agree about recording voltage vs. robot performance. First off, it is a good learning experience. And it will definitely give your team a clear idea of how _your_ robot uses power. For example I wouldn't use the NiMH rechargeables this year because we've already determined that our robot "likes" to be in the 8.6 v range, and struggles a bit below 8.3 v.

      Cheers,

      Peter


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/12/2005 16:45:45 GMT
        I have no experience with rechargable alkalines other than they are chemically difference from NiCads. The last time I read about them (2-3 years ago), they had a fairly short life span. Something on the order of 50 recharges. Not sure if that holds true these days.

        What I would give for nuclear power in a AA format!

        -Skye


    2. Message by: northandover2619 01/12/2005 22:30:15 GMT
      The best batteries by far are the Eveready e2 lithium (non-rechargeable).

      Benefits:
      - they weigh 1/3 less
      - the have a completely flat discharge voltage (more repeatable performance)
      - they are slightly higher voltage (more power)
      - they last 3 times as long

      Just one major disadvantage - they cost an arm and a leg ($2.50 / battery). Still given the work we put in it was a no brainer for us

      Peter


    3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/14/2005 00:07:06 GMT
      Different batteries work best for different bots...

      It turns out that selection of a battery for an FLL team is actually a pretty complicated matter. There really isn't a single "best battery" for an FLL robot. Each battery choice has some different characteristics (cost, voltage, discharge characteristics, weight, rechargeability, temperature effects, etc.)

      The good news is that in general, a team can arbitralily pick one type of battery and stick with it and get generally predictable behavior. In other words, making the "best choice" isn't as important as understanding the characteristics of the batteries you are using.

      NorthAndover2619 has pointed out some of the generally advantageous characteristics of the Eveready e2 lithium. These characteristics may or may not make this the "best battery" for other FLL teams. Indeed, some of these characteristics may completely change the behavior of a robot (for better or worse!)

      That said, depending on the problems being faced by a given FLL team, switching to a different battery may improve or worsen the situation. There really isn't a single best solution. However, trying out different batteries is a good idea for a team, to find out what works best for their robot design. Different teams will find different kind of batteries may work best in their robots.

      Some more discussion on the batteries question can be found in this thread on 'Rechargeable Batteries'.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

      PS: The Mindstorms Mayhem team has been using NiMH batteries for competition for all three years we've been involved in FLL. NiMH batteries have some advantages and disadvantages -- they've worked well for us, but may be a catastrophe for some robot designs.


    4. Message by: See-More 1298 01/14/2005 00:17:51 GMT
      Thanks Ken for the affirmation : ) I was starting to worry about our choice to use NiCds these past 3 years!

      My 6 teams in the past 3 seasons have used NiCDs with great results. We have found them to be very predictable and they are able to make our heavy treaded bots and arms work consistently. I'm not techie enough to know why - just know that they work for us.

      Marie - standing up for the poor maligned NiCDs of the world


    5. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/18/2005 04:32:58 GMT
      Our robot is what some call heavy or fat. I don't know its actual weight, but compared to the other robots we've come up against, ours is very heavy. Up until half way through this season, we have used Duracell Ultra, we find they are the most matched out of the box and are consistent through their discharge cycle.

      After our first mini tournament we were introduced to the Energizer Lithium Blue and Silver batteries. Once we put them in our bot, its speed increased a bit (and we need every second we can get), but more importantly, we did not have to change them at all for the rest of the season. We did change them the practice before the state tournament just in case.

      The down side is they are $2 each battery and they are not rechargable.

      Laura


Discussion: FLL Demo Video By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/16/2005 00:52:41 GMT
Hi,
I have been talking to a couple coaches and it seems that there is a lack of good demo video for use during recruitment, media events, etc. (I personally would like one to help show sponsors what FLL is about.) I searched on this forum and on the Internet but didn*t find a lot of options. One of the coaches posted on this forum asking for videos but didn't get any responses.

I would love to have a demo video containing different robots/challenge runs, presentations and opening ceremonies. If I could get some videos, I have access to top of the line video editing equipment at my University to edit them.

Does anyone have any video we could use? (The video does not have to be of award winning teams either, actually it would be better if we could also show some of the struggles with presentations and missions in the demo.)

Would anybody else be interested in having a copy of a demo like this?

Thanks for the help!!
Carla :)
Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: warningchokinghazard320 01/12/2005 18:03:09 GMT
    see this recent discussion for a bunch of videos

    Dave


    1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/12/2005 18:26:31 GMT
      Oops guess I should have added that I am looking for videos off all different years, including 2004. I want to show a progression of what FLL has evolved in to.

      Most of the 2002 videos links are down, I only found a couple from 2002 that are still live. And there are only a couple videos for 2004.

      Sorry about that one, my fault! :)
      Carla :)
      Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos


    2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/13/2005 15:19:50 GMT
      Carla,

      I may be able to help by sending you video footage of robot runs from 2002 and 2003 from the "big screen" cameras used at the NH State Tournament. As an example of the kind of footage that is, you can take a look at the "NH State Tournament Highlights" I put together back in 2002. (See the link at the bottom of the link below:)

      http://www.mindstormsmayhem.org/0304/videos.html

      A video of Mindstorms Mayhem's 2002 research presentation can also be found online at http://www.mindstormsmayhem.org/0304/team-videos.html

      I also probably still have about an hour's worth of raw big screen footage from both 2002 and 2003 around somewhere. Let me know if this is of interest to you, and I can send you a few tapes or DVDs containing the relevant footage.

      I don't have any big screen footage from 2004 due to technical difficulties with the recording this year.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/13/2005 15:34:55 GMT
        Hi,
        That is exactly what I am looking for! :) I have the highlights videos and presentation videos from your site already but the raw footage is what I was looking for. Best thing to do is probably drop me an email so we can figure out how I can get the tapes or DVD's. Thank you so much!!! :)

        Carla
        Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos


        1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 01/15/2005 08:50:02 GMT
          Carla,
          I'm also looking for video footage for recruitment purposes, and unfortunately, I'm extremely media-ly challenged. If it isn't too much trouble, could I possibly get a copy of your final, edited copy (sure to be better than anything I'd produce) on CD or DVD? I'd be glad to pay for whatever costs (reproduction, postage) you incur. Your help is much appreciated (and thanks, Ken, for making your footage available).

          Yolande
          kyjjpetersen@hotmail.com


          1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/15/2005 17:59:15 GMT
            Of course!!! :)

            That is the reason I am making it so everyone has a demo video :) Send me an email with your mailing address and as soon as it is done I will send you a CD :) It may be a couple month, I am shooting for the april/may time frame to try and finish it.

            If anyone else wants one, just drop me an email with your mailing address. :)

            Carla :)
            Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos


    3. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 01/15/2005 18:47:41 GMT
      Can you add me to that list also?
      Drizztd2@yahoo.com
      Sounds like a really good idea.

      Alford Stewart


      1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/15/2005 18:50:09 GMT
        No problem...I will send you can email in a couple month when I get the video complete :)

        Carla
        Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos


        1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 01/15/2005 18:55:18 GMT
          Thank You


    4. Message by: Robo1461 01/15/2005 23:46:17 GMT
      Please add me also.

      Thanks,
      Karla
      Coach, Bowling Green, KY
      kquad@bellsouth.net


    5. Message by: Nerds 868 01/16/2005 00:52:41 GMT
      I you wouldn't mine adding us to the list too, please.

      Thanks,
      Carl
      cheinzl@yahoo.com


Discussion: cardboard By: RobotRulers776 01/18/2005 21:39:48 GMT
Can you make a cardboard template to help position your robot/
Thanks

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/18/2005 21:38:58 GMT
    RobotRulers,

    Please read the Aiming rule here for your answer:
    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14150

    For even more information read the UFAQ located here:
    http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

    -Skye


    1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/18/2005 21:39:48 GMT
      Nope, only legos are legal. Most people do make a positioning peice out of legos. Works pretty good too ;)

      Carla
      Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos


Discussion: I'm willing to help you if i can. I need help too!! By: 21stcentars2357 01/20/2005 23:37:31 GMT
If you need help just ask. Have you used or heard anything about lego pnuematics? Let me know. It would be very helpful for the CD mission. If you connect a really long wire to the robot, and hold one end in base you can touch the robot at anytime. Kids did it last year, although I doubt they got the directors award. Last year we got 2 in the SC state tournement. See you at Roper MTN, or the Sc state tournement!!

  1. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 01/20/2005 01:24:32 GMT
    The "really long wire" you talk about is called a tether. It's use is allowed, but you CAN NOT hold it (e.g. with your hands) in base. Any touch of any part of the robot requires that you bring the entire robot back into base.

    That may be your understanding and that's great, you just need to be very clear in your description of what is and is not allowed. If this is not your understanding I recommend reviewing the rules and Q&A on the web:
    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14150
    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14200

    Cheers,
    Courtney


    1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 01/20/2005 02:39:47 GMT
      Hi,
      I also posted about the pneumatics, as far as I was told they are reliable if you can use canned air to fill the tank ahead of time. I have a couple lego books that also show them and they seem to work good for the authors :) Good Luck

      Carla
      Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos


      1. Message by: 21stcentars2357 01/20/2005 23:37:31 GMT
        Thank you very much! I will try to talk my coach into buying some pnumatics for next year! Hope you do well in the tournement!
        ,The ForkShoalsElementry21stcentars


    2. Message by: 21stcentars2357 01/20/2005 23:34:43 GMT
      Thank you for the information. I will have to make some more REVISIONS and DO SOME MORE REASEARCH. <0;

      Thanks,
      The 21stcentars


Discussion: points and field damage By: RobotRulers776 01/24/2005 23:04:19 GMT
how many points do you lose when you touch the robot outside of the base on an average? Also about field damage about how mant points do we lose for certain amounts of field damage?
thanks

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/24/2005 22:28:21 GMT
    There is no average. You loose exactly one ball for each robot return penalty. Read the rules to get further details.
    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14150

    Field damage is not cut and dry. If the damage was not cconsidered by the ref as part of your strategy, then you loose no points. If they do think it is part of your strategy then you get NO points for that mission.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: RobotRulers776 01/24/2005 22:33:00 GMT
      Can we modify a lego, cut it shape it etc?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/24/2005 23:04:19 GMT
        Again you should read the rules. The answer is in the section called Materials.

        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14150

        You might also want to take the time to read the UFAQ at:
        http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

        -Skye


Discussion: balls By: RobotRulers776 02/04/2005 22:48:52 GMT
How many balls does each team have at the beginning of the tournament? Also depending on how many balls there are and you shoot one of your opponets balls and get it in do you get the points our do we?
Thanks

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 01/26/2005 22:42:43 GMT
    "Eight shall be the maximum number of balls, and the maximum number of balls shall be eight. Nine balls shalt thou not permit. Seven is right out. Once the number eight, being the number of balls counted, be reached, then no further balls shall be permitteth..."

    (With apologies to Monty Python and the Holy Grail & Ken Streeter)

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 01/27/2005 20:58:46 GMT
      Ken see what you got started. The whole forum will be a mess now. I shall have to call on the Knights who say Ni to bail us all out. :)


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/27/2005 21:04:41 GMT
        Regarding the Knights of Ni - go ahead, I have a couple awesome shrubberies from the 2002 CitySights set that will satiate them! Plus, if that doesn't work, I know the word that is their weakness. (Don't worry, I won't share it with others...) :-)

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

        PS: Alas, much of this Monty Python humour would be completely lost on the students -- or maybe I should be comforted with the knowledge that the FLL coaches and parents aren't passing that disease on to the kids!


        1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 01/27/2005 21:17:44 GMT
          Just as long as the kids don't use the horses from the movie, I think they'll be ok. It is after all hard to have someone follow you, clacking coconuts all day long.


          1. Message by: Wildcats2263 02/04/2005 22:48:52 GMT
            Actually, I had some of the team at my house last spring (they were working on a group science project) and we rounded out the evening by watching "The Grail". I still hear them saying "what's your favorite color?" and "African or European swallow?" at odd moments. Ah yes. Another generation appreciating the finer moments on the silver screen.
            Monica


    2. Message by: SandersTigers203 02/01/2005 00:04:42 GMT
      i forgot and no one on my team remembers if the ball goes on the opponets side dose your team got a point?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/01/2005 00:11:51 GMT
        If you read the mission statements (and you should) you will see that it does not matter what colored ball is in a side basket. All balls in your side basket are worth points to you. All balls (regardless of color) in the other teams side basket are worth points to them.

        -Skye


Discussion: tournament By: RobotRulers776 02/02/2005 22:37:46 GMT
At the tournament do you get three tries to do the missions and then they take the best score out of those three or do you only get one chance and they take that score?
thanks

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/02/2005 22:37:09 GMT
    It varies somewhat from tournament to tournament, but the normal case is you get three matches at the tables. Each match is 2+1/2 minutes and you try to accomplish as much as possible during that time. Each match is scored individualy. Your best score is used towards the Director's Award and to seed you for the elimination rounds.

    But some tournaments use the average score and not the highest. Some tournaments do not run elimination rounds. Some tournaments may run more than three rounds. A very few less than three.

    This is all further explained in the UFAQ at
    http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

    -Skye


    1. Message by: RoboManiacs 02/02/2005 22:37:46 GMT
      It depends on the tournament. Most tournaments (maybe all) give you three rounds on the table. The top score is kept and the other 2 thrown away (unless used as a tie breaker).

      Check with the tournament partner for your state to find out for sure.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


Discussion: Coaching tips By: fll-freak1328 02/03/2005 20:22:49 GMT
Here is an edited email that I wrote in response to the question: "How can you get all the missions done in the time limit?".

We started the season making a spreadsheet. We allocated the maximum time allowable for each mission in two ways. The first was to allocated based on score. That is you must score 400 points in 150 seconds or 0.375 seconds per point. A 40 point mission would be allowed 40*0.375 or 15 seconds.

The second way we allocated time to a given mission was by distance from the base. The pet food mission would get more time than the glasses that are much closer.

The team then discussed what was the better way to allocate time to each mission. After some haggling, we assigned each mission its allocated time. Now we started to discuss what missions should be run in conjunction.

Since the pet food and gate are soo close together, they decided they should be done at the same time. The kids then started to prototype solutions. Whatever solution they come up with had to stay inside its time budget. If they do it in less time, they can "sell" their extra time to another group that might need it. They must also include the time it takes to setup
any attachements in their budget.

I also hold back 10 seconds as management reserve to be allocated in special circumstances. This time normaly get taken up by mistakes and the time to swap one tag team for another.

As a case in point, we are able to get the center ball and the glasses within the first 7 seconds of the match. That is 90 points that normaly would be allocated 33 seconds. That was 26 (33-7) seconds that we were able to sell to the pet food/gate/chair/flag misison that ran over its combined time budget.

Always knowing how much time you are allowed and having a few stopwatches around makes for early inclusion of the time aspect in the design cycle.

-Skye

  1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 02/03/2005 16:36:39 GMT
    Here are more tips about various things in this post. I know they have helped me alot to start getting ready for 2005 *grin*

    Carla
    Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 02/03/2005 16:47:08 GMT
      Cool Skye, sounds like your team is a very thoughtful and structured team.

      Our approach was much different. We started out with the robot rules as the guiding principal to the missions. We had two other guiding forces - we knew we wanted to get 400 and we did not want to put on or take off any part of the robot. In past years we knew that was a problem.

      To start, each group of 2-3 kids had to tackle the mission they choose with no motor assistance. We already had a wheel base.

      Once all the attachments were made, the kids went to work trying to merge the attachments together. For example, the device that drops the food onto the table is the same device that pushes in the chair and the trigger for the food drop also triggers the pet food delivery and the bus sign.

      The kids are very good at combining the runs into as few as possible. Our first run is 1 chair, the pet food, the gate and the bus sign. I think it takes 17 seconds. We combined that in the end with the ball basket to get 255 points in 17 seconds. The cd and the glasses are together and the food on the table and chair are together. At this point, we have used 1 minute 12 seconds. The stairs are a pain.

      When the missions were programmed, they were about 2x the time to run as they could be or about 4.25 minutes total run time. The kids setup time is also very long. So we have about 2 months that we just tweak programs, fine tune attachments and practice.

      One of our programming strategies when we are in phase 1 is to put a lot of 1 second stops in to allow the robot to stabilize before turning. By the end of the cleanup phase, most of the 1 seconds are either gone or are more like .25 seconds. Also, in initial programming there are usually a lot of extra steps that the kids strip out in cleanup phase.

      So, you ask, how does this approach work to get all the missions done in the time limit? It doesn*t. The kids have to want to get the magic 400. The approach above just lets them get to the point of fine-tuning very early in the process. They can spend a lot more time shaving off those last 2 seconds rather than getting that other add on built or trying out a new base.

      Our team did very well, they only added 1 thing to the robot this year- the treads for the stair mission, so they met all my expectations. They managed to get a 400 at the table in competition, which was something they had never done in practice.

      So * Summary,-
      Make a plan and stick to it. Skye's teams plan worked well for them and ours did well for us. Kids are used to having schedules and rules, but they are also used to pushing the limits. So your job as coach is to keep them on schedule.

      For a context in January
      -Have a base built no later than October 1.
      -Don*t modify it radically after that.
      -Have all add-ons built no later than November 1
      -Have all base programs done by November 15th
      -Combine and optimize programs to the least number possible.
      -Practice

      If your contest is in December, I*d make sure that you have a couple base robots built before the Sept 15th opening day and move up all dates by at least 2 weeks.

      Laura


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/03/2005 20:02:13 GMT
        This just goes to show that there is no one right way to coach!

        My only comment would be on your schedule. My rookie year, the kids only had a working base platform just prior to Thanksgiving. Even so late, we still took second place performance at the state tournament in December. But I will admit that they worked 10+ hours a week up to the tournament.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: thunderbolts11 02/03/2005 20:22:49 GMT
          The schedule is good for schools or teams that meet before the season. Usually the mat comes out in August so the base can be built to work with the possible layouts based on guessing. Schools here start the first week in August and FLL starts the second week of school. So usually out teams have been at the base part for a month before the challenge is released.

          This year with the hurricanes and whatever, we got started much later than usual and used a base one of the kids had come up with during the summer.

          Laura


Discussion: Presentation By: RobotRulers776 02/06/2005 02:20:43 GMT
For your presentation how many times do you present? Once or three times?
Thanks

  1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 02/06/2005 02:20:43 GMT
    Which presentation? There is generally one presentation for research and 3 matches at the table (where you attempt to complete your missions in 2-1/2 minutes). Depending on the tournament, there may also be one or more interviews for teamwork, design, and other awards (Against All Odds, Coaches' Award, etc.)


Discussion: Mixed veteran/rookie teams By: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 02/09/2005 01:02:48 GMT
Any advice and/or comments for mixed teams of veterans & rookies? I'm sending 2 of my kids to another coach next year (3 potential new members so far) and hope to pass along all our experience and none of our bad habits.

Yolande

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/07/2005 03:58:26 GMT
    Mixed teams can be hard. I have replaced a few members over the years. I always try to teach the skills to the new members like I did to the team the first year. But it never happens. The new kids get started by a trial by fire. The veterans seem to be able to take on the job and do the teaching for me. I have in the past had meetings for just the new kids with a veteran helper to bring them up the speed. But there is just not enough time to do the job right without borring the veterans to tears.

    What is crutial is to make the new kids feel at home.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 02/07/2005 15:56:09 GMT
      Since we are a school based team, we have to take what we get . This year we had 4 returning and therefor had 6 open slots. We ended up with 4 new kids. To level the playing field, we switched programming languages from RIS to Robolab. That helped bring the old guys even with the new guys. The other thing we did was that we paired up one old guy with one new guy, specially for the building.

      For research, it is always new each year so everyone starts new. The biggest problem I had this year was the team work part. Again, because we are a school based team, the kids may not be friends and they may not even like each other. This year we had that case, there were 2 kids that just did not fit in, and 2 kids that had a love/hate thing going on. At states, I had 4 kids in tears at different times of the day and one kids ready to tear the head off another.

      So, for mixing a team up, work on team work first.

      Laura


    2. Message by: RoboManiacs 02/07/2005 16:46:44 GMT
      I would echo Laura's comments. This year we had 4 kids returning from a very successful team from last year. That left 6 "new" kids. What we did is make the veterans the team leaders for building and programming.

      They were able to help with building and programming the first bot but they were not allowed to touch anything. They could only watch and offer suggestions.

      One of our first activities as a team this year was to take apart last year's bot. No two pieces could remain attached. In a way, symbolically starting from scratch. It really drove home to the vets that this was a new project with a new team to accomplish it.

      This worked out great for us. 2 of the new kids now know more about the programming than the veterans from last year. Our final robot was built by a team of 3 new kids and 1 veteran.

      The teamwork is the hardest aspect. The vets can be very territorial about what they do and even the team identity. It took awhile before they started letting the rookies be a part of the collective "we."

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


    3. Message by: See-More 1298 02/09/2005 01:02:48 GMT
      My teams have always been a mix of vets and rookies (except for the first year, of course). Since our first month is all about team building - team games, exercises, challenges completely unrelated to FLL, I have never found the mixing of the 2 to be a problem. For me, a bigger challenge has been familiarity and flirting as they all get older!

      Marie


Discussion: Lego League Logo By: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 02/14/2005 18:54:47 GMT
Hi, I was looking for some of the lego league logos. We want to use them for buttons and on a web page. The main one I am looking for, was the First logo. It looked like it was made from legos. Does anyone have any ideas where to find it?

  1. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 02/14/2005 18:54:47 GMT
    FIRST's resource center page is located at: http://www.usfirst.org/4vol/FLLresourcectr/index.html

    This has a jpg of the FIRST logo & FLL logos (they changed recently).

    Hope that helps,
    Courtney


Discussion: Flatten Challenge Mat Back Out By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 02/28/2005 23:36:53 GMT
Hi,
Has anyone had to flatten thier challenge matt back out? I have the one from missions to mars but the people who stored it must have layed something heavy on it. When you roll the matt up it now has a flat shape instead of round. I layed it out upside down hoping gravity migh help and it did a little but not enough

Any suggestions on how to fix it? Thanks so much!

Carla
Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/27/2005 16:31:24 GMT
    lay it out as flat as possible on a warm sunny day. Do not let it get too hot. Check it every few minutes. It should flatten out fairly well. If the kink was too sharp, you may get blisters that will never go away and will only get bigger.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 02/27/2005 18:13:19 GMT
      I live in Michigan so I guess I will wait a couple months and try that LOL Thanks Skye :)


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/27/2005 20:50:29 GMT
        The weather in Michigan is unlikely to be toooo different that what we have now in New Hampshire. You might try a hairdryer, but be careful to warm up the whole mat and do it slowly. The mat has a fuuny habit of expanding in size when heated. If you warm it locally, it will get bigger locally and pucker. If you do it over the whole mat, it should stay flat, but you will probably need to trim 1/8 inch when done.

        I use the driveway trick, but only in the fall when we still have a few days above freezing! Best of skill.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: thunderbolts11 02/28/2005 23:36:53 GMT
      There is another way, but you have to be careful. Find an iron and put it on the lowest setting. Put the mat on a flat surface. Get a T-shirt or towel and lay it on the mat. Carefully iron the towel or tshirt on the mat. Don't use the steam option.

      This method has worked many times for me and can be used for the bubbles also. If you want to remove bubbles, poke them with a pin and work the iron from the edges of the bubble to the pin hole.

      Hope this helps.

      Laura


Discussion: Want to go to the World Festival? By: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 03/04/2005 22:44:37 GMT
My solid, but non-stellar team did not win the State director's award, but we feel privileged to be able to go to the World Festival through the "back door." Now that it's officially announced, I feel like I can spill the beans and invite you too. VEX (also known as Robovation) is a new high school program designed for teams/schools without the money and technological resources needed to run an FRC team. The pilot/demo tournament is this April, held concurrently with FLL and FRC championships. The official announcement is on www.usfirst.org under the headlines (Introducing FIRST Vex Challenge). The official age is listed as 14-18, but my team members are 13-14 (we have several December birthdays), so there shouldn't be any problem with graduating/graduated FLL kids.

Yolande

  1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 03/04/2005 19:57:10 GMT
    I was asked by FIRST to clarify that VEX is a completely separate competition from the World Festival. To make sure I don't mess up the message, here's a direct quote from them:

    "I am wanted to make sure that you understood that the VEX Pilot is separate from the World Festival totally in its experience. VEX has its own pit area, stage, competition rounds etc. While you will certainly see and can enjoy FLL and we hope you do, the VEX program is not part of the World Festival.

    I am concerned that other teams reading your forum posting might misunderstand and think that they too, would be part of the World Festival We would hate to have any come with that expectation and be disappointed that the VEX program is different and separate from World Festival."

    Even though the VEX competition isn't officially under the World Festival label, we're looking forward to it as an incredible FIRST experience. In addition to the chance to take part in competition in Atlanta, there's the opportunity to view the work of some awesome FLL and FRC teams. I hope my post didn't mislead or raise any false expectations -- World Festival or not, it looks to be a great time.

    Yolande


    1. Message by: SMART 1 03/04/2005 22:44:37 GMT
      Hey good luck to you - it sounds really cool!

      How many of us FLL coaches wish we had known about FLL in its pilot year?

      Regards,

      Peter
      Coach - S.M.A.R.T.
      Connecticut


Discussion: Anyone heading to World Festival with a Video Camera? By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 03/04/2005 22:36:08 GMT
Hi,
I have begun to make the demo video for us to use this next season (see this post about the demo video). I am having little problems getting video of US teams but international teams are a different story. Anyone heading out to the World Festival with a digital video camera that might be able to get me some footage of international teams? Drop me an email if you can: adias.angel@gmail.com. Thanks so much for your help!

Carla :)
Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: 03/04/2005 22:36:08 GMT
    Deleted


Discussion: Beams :) By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 03/15/2005 19:42:28 GMT
I am trying to find a place to order beams from. (the beams with the round end not the ones with studs on the top) Im I using the wrong word when I search for them? I can't seem to find any. thanks, Carla :)

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 03/14/2005 21:19:53 GMT
    Try looking for "Link arms". LEGO and Pitsco sell spare
    part kits that have link arms. You can also buy them
    individualy from vendors at www.bricklink.com

    -Skye


    1. Message by: SMART 1 03/15/2005 18:03:47 GMT
      Correction - Not sure about Pitsco, but on Bricklink what you want to search for is "liftarm" (one word). You'll find a lot! thin, thick, double bent, etc.

      If you're looking for the straight ones for example this might work better.

      Search for: liftarm 1 x 15 (or whatever size you want)

      Cheers,

      Peter


      1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 03/15/2005 19:42:28 GMT
        OH Thank you!!! That is exactly what I needed, Carla :)


Discussion: Judging By: RobotRulers776 04/08/2005 19:20:13 GMT
Does anyone know if the judging will be the same in Atlanta as it was in the regional competitions or is it different?

  1. Message by: SMART 1 03/29/2005 15:04:16 GMT
    Different states do things in different ways. Have you checked with your coach? First has been sending very detailed information to the coaches on how judging will be done and what awards are available.

    Also, details have been posted online here...

    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=17130

    Then click on the link for "Schedule and Event Overview". This has a _very_ detailed overview of exactly how judging will be done as well as a boatload of other information and details.

    Again though, check with your coaches on if they are getting the official communications from FLL on this. If they aren't let me know and I'll help them get in touch with the right folks at First to get on the mailing list.

    Regards,

    Peter
    Coach
    S.M.A.R.T.
    Team 2555 - Stamford, CT


    1. Message by: IAFLLModerator 04/08/2005 19:20:13 GMT
      Peter gave good advice. Always make sure you check directly with FIRST if you find you cannot get the information you are seeking. They are very busy right now with planning details for Atlanta, so be patient with them.

      In terms of the judging being different, I think you might find that it seems different in a way because all the teams are very good. You must remember that this is the top of the top that are going to Atlanta. Judges may ask a little more specific questions because they need to gather more information. It is always a very hard decision to decide who gets awards at any tournament, but at World Fest it is even more difficult because we see so many great teams.

      I would highly encourage you to go over the list of awards that will be given in Atlanta. There are a few that are changes over what you might be used to in your state. This might also give you an idea what to prepare for - good luck.

      Judging sessions in Atlanta will be done one right after another, so you will go from one session to the next with all three in a row (for most teams). You will have 10 minutes with the judges, then 5 minutes in between judging rooms.

      I hope this helps answer your questions. You need to remember that judges want to hear from the whole team, enjoy listening to you, and have a love for FLL just like you do. Remember to be yourselves. You might consider how you feel when you get nervous, what helps you to relax, and how can your team work together to show your stuff. Remember the most important part of being there is the experience, not winning a trophy.

      Good luck and see you in Atlanta!
      IA FLL Moderator


Discussion: Question? By: RobotRulers776 04/19/2005 18:32:12 GMT
We have a question. Our plane will be arriving in Atlanta late on the 20th. So we want to know how our coach is suppose to get the information that is needed. Meaning the coaches meeting and team registration? If not when can he get this information? We were not aware of anything happening on the 20th. Thanks

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 03/29/2005 20:35:19 GMT
    Robot Rulers,

    This would be a good question to send directly to Betsy Daniels at FIRST. The FIRST staff do not regularly monitor these forums.

    --ken
    Co-Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: IAFLLModerator 03/30/2005 17:50:00 GMT
      Robot Rulers -

      at this time, the team registration is slated to take place on the evening of the 20th with a coaches meeting around 6-7 p.m. The exact times and locations will be communicated with coaches and teams, but in the draft schedule as of now, this would be when the coach could get the materials. If you will arrive later than this, you should contact FIRST to let them know. If you cannot send an alternate adult for the coach, they will most likely have you arrive at the Dome a little early on the 21st to pick up your materials and fill you in on other details. You could contact FLL headquarters by e-mailing them off the FAQ page.

      Take care,
      IA FLL Moderator


    2. Message by: globots2604 04/19/2005 18:32:12 GMT
      I am not sure if you got information from Betsy Daniels. We had the same problem since we were landing in Atlanta at about 6:40 p.m. and would not be able to get to the Dome in time. Betsy was kind enough to say that there would be another coaches meeting and additional registration in the morning of 21st. They will be going through the same information from previous night on Thursday. She also mentioned that they are aware that not all teams will be able to make it but they needed to get a head start.

      Good luck to you all and have a safe trip to and from Atlanta. Please do stop at our pit. We would love to meet everyone.

      - J
      Globots 2604


Discussion: TEAMWORK PRESENTATION By: Limit Busters 04/15/2005 17:55:16 GMT
At the world festival there is a scheduled time for TEAMWORK PRESENTATION! Can anyone explain????

Tonya LeBrun
team mom
oakviews10@yahoo.com

  1. Message by: SMART 1 04/15/2005 17:55:16 GMT
    I think it is just 10 minutes for the "teamwork" judges to meet with your team and discuss with them everything they did to come together as a team - to tell their "story".

    I'd be curious to know if any state competitions have formal teamwork judging. If so, can someone from one of those states discuss how this feels.

    - Peter


Discussion: International results By: fll-freak1328 04/25/2005 17:57:56 GMT
The results for the international festival in Atlanta are now available at:
http://www.usfirst.org/jrobtcs/2005fwf-awards.htm

Congratulations to all the teams that participated.

-Skye

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 04/25/2005 01:32:58 GMT
    Anyone have performance round results? Things were so crazy we never saw them posted. If anyone took a picture of the results and can post them, it would be appreciated.

    We just got home from Atlanta & would like to congratulate all of the incredible teams that we met at the Festival. Our kids really didn't need the plane to get home - they could have floated by themselves.

    We were simply awestruck by the level of the competition and stunned by being chosen as the Director's Award winner. Thank you everyone for a wonderful event - it is something our kids will never forget.

    Ken, you are truly the definition of a gracious professional. It hadn't even sunk in before you were on the floor to congratulate the kids. Dana, you were right behind.

    We left Atlanta truly inspired by all of the teams. We can only hope that we get the opportunity to reunite with you all next year.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9


    1. Message by: IAFLLModerator 04/25/2005 17:57:56 GMT
      To the RoboManiacs and everyone -

      Great job in Atlanta! As head judge advisor I can tell you first hand that there were so many great teams, so many wonderful comments made about the teams, and such hard decisions to determine who went home with trophies when all the teams were so bright and fantastic!

      It is always a wonderful experience for both young participants and the adult volunteers to be part of something so gracious, fun, and exciting as World Fest.

      Get some rest today, enjoy your success, and thank you to all for your hard work and dedication.

      On to Ocean Odyssey!!

      -Camille


Discussion: age limits for fll By: Legocy1231 05/02/2005 02:08:31 GMT
Is it true that in certain other countries, the age limit for FLL participation is 10 to 16, while in the U.S. the upper age limit is 14? Why the difference?

  1. Message by: SMART 1 04/28/2005 20:50:14 GMT
    It is true - please see this article...

    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=20

    Don't know why though. Maybe with the advent of VEX they'll change it, but I'm just speculating.

    Regards,

    Peter


    1. Message by: ManicMechanicMindstormers539 05/02/2005 02:08:31 GMT
      I agree-- VEX has the potential to change a lot of things at the high school level. With the kits costing only $300 (each team used 4 kits, but 2 kits plus a few accessories would have been plenty) and easily fitting inside a suitcase, there's great potential to have many small teams that run on a modest budget. There still isn't the variety of parts that come with LEGOs (what we would have given for gear racks!), but I'm trusting that will evolve with time.

      Yolande


Discussion: Challenge Field Shippment and Team Number By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 05/02/2005 21:43:28 GMT
Hi,
I just registered my team for the 2005 season and we are team #4. I thought I had read on here earlier that the Challenge Field Sets ship according to the team number, is that true? If that is true, how early do they start shipping those out? Is it the middle of Aug?

Thanks!
Carla :)
Coach, Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: cleanupcrew1550 05/02/2005 18:46:09 GMT
    Yes, they will start shipping in the middle of August.

    2005 Team# 23
    Cleanup Crew


    1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 05/02/2005 19:04:39 GMT
      My team is ready to start again. We got number 39 this year.


      1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 05/02/2005 19:10:46 GMT
        Mine too! :) We have already had a meeting to get our fundraisers lined up and I alread have 3 summer workshop planned. LOL so maybe I am just as excited as the team *sheepish grin* Carla :)


    2. Message by: technodudes191 05/02/2005 19:11:32 GMT
      Business must be brisk! We logged on at high noon EDT and ended up with lucky #13.

      TechnoDudes
      Team 13


    3. Message by: ScienceGoesBoink0002 05/02/2005 19:52:13 GMT
      You beat us by 2 - we're team #6 this year.

      2003 Mission Mars - Red Planet Gladiators #702
      2004 No Limits - Science Goes Boink #2
      2005 Ocean Odyssey - Science Goes Boink #6

      -Beaverton, Oregon


    4. Message by: RoboManiacs 05/02/2005 21:43:28 GMT
      Wow! Not even unpacked from Atlanta and here we go again!! Good luck everyone.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #11
      Team website



Folder: Programming Questions 09/08/2004 17:49:01 GMT
Please post all discussions and questions about programming here


Folder: General Questions 02/28/2005 23:58:11 GMT


Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: fll-freak1328 11/11/2004 05:17:34 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
year's rule changes.

The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the FAQ at:

http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

Skye Sweeney
Skye@fll-freak.com

  1. Message by: RTH1361 09/28/2004 01:03:11 GMT
    When you're on the top stair, does the robot have to be touching the bar in order to get full points?


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/28/2004 02:09:24 GMT
      No. Just fully of the mat and lower stairs. The handrail may or may not be touched based on how you feel that moment.
      -Skye


    2. Message by: ChaosX 10/07/2004 14:52:21 GMT
      We are having light senser trouble. Our light sensor will not respond even when on. We cannot download programs any more. It started when our robot was kicked once loosing all of its batteries.
      Please respond to morelob@cps-k12.org.
      Thanks
      William


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/07/2004 15:18:23 GMT
        You are likely to have lost or corrupted the firmware. I would suggest that you remove the batteries again, wait 4 minutes (by the clock) and then put them back in again. Next time you run RIS or Robolab, it will see than it needs to replace the firmware. It will take several minutes to do. You should be back in order. If not, you may have damaged the RCX.

        -Skye


    3. Message by: ??1148 10/27/2004 17:40:06 GMT
      we can program onlysome of the time. Why?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/27/2004 21:38:56 GMT
        More information needed to answer question.
        What language are you using. What errors are you getting?
        Or is it just that you are spending more time building than programming?

        -Skye


    4. Message by: Bricksters 11/09/2004 06:18:18 GMT
      Our programmer has written a multi-level program to use touch sensors to solve a random task, it is written that if a container is greater 1, it will do (this), if it is greater then 2, it will do (that), if it is greater then 3, it will (do the third task), BUT when we run it through the RCX, we get a message "you have a While loop jump without a land. Make sure the land (or loop) is the same task."
      We've tried everything we can think of to correct or modifify the task. All of the lines are correct, the problem is in the container fork, it won't merge.

      We have 4 books about legos in addition to the manuals, have gone online and read the fll-freak.home. Are we missing something??
      Please help, tournament is coming soon.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/09/2004 14:34:52 GMT
        This sounds like a RoboLab program. If you email it to me I will look it over for you.

        Skye@fll-freak.com

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/09/2004 20:33:40 GMT
        Bricksters,

        I saw almost this exact same error last night when some of the students on the team I coach were working on a problem to choose from multiple options. They saw a message similar to what you describe in two different cases:

        1 - The "merge forks" (the green forks that "reconnect" separate paths that split off from a touch sensor fork or light sensor fork) were not paired off in the reverse order that they started.

        2 - They had a "loop start" block without a "loop end" block to match up with it.

        I hope you find it!

        --ken
        Coach,
        Mindstorms Mayhem


      3. Message by: ilsgreen2292 11/11/2004 05:17:34 GMT
        One of my teams had the same error in a program. The programmer didn't put in the fork merge. Downloading the program without the fork merge was more fun, though -- the robot turned left during the download.

        The same team also found a way to corrupt the N/100 timer and a different command in Robolab this year. Neither of thes icon would thread properly, and the team could not download programs from the computer at that time. I think they accidentally got into the source code for the base icons and made an inadvertent change. I was able to put their programs in a different file, uninstall Robolab, then reinstall Robolab to have uncorrupted icons and make the current programs still work.

        Mark Beitz, coach


Discussion: Line follower programming By: team_newcomer101 09/28/2004 17:37:51 GMT
Our team want to program the robot to follow the black line using a light sensor. What value should we put in the light sensor's numeric constant? We are using robolab.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/16/2004 17:19:42 GMT
    Welcome the FLL team 101,

    Line following is a big challenge. It is not as simple as
    just putting one number into a numeric constant!

    I would suggest some research on line following algorithms.
    A great document to start with is "Toeing the Line". You
    can find a copy of it at http://www.fll-freak.com

    Once you read this and other materials, I think you will
    have a good idea of what numbers you should use!

    -Skye Sweeney


    1. Message by: RoboManiacs 09/16/2004 17:21:46 GMT
      The value may vary from table to table and can be affected by the distance between the mat and the sensor. One option is to use the view function on the RCX for your light sensor port and get the current readings for your table.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      Team web site


    2. Message by: team_newcomer101 09/17/2004 13:05:54 GMT
      Our team have read the "toeing the line" explanation. We are supposed to find the average of black and white. Am I correct?


    3. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/17/2004 14:14:30 GMT
      Team 101,

      Your question is difficult to answer. I am not sure how much
      of line following you understand.

      1) Do you have a robot built that can turn right and left
      and go forwards and backwards?

      2) Does your robot have a light sensor that points down to
      see the floor?

      3) Have you used the View mode to see what the robot is
      reporting for light sensor values?

      4) Have you looked at one of the line following methods in
      "Toeing the Line" hard enough to understand how it works?

      5) Have you entered the program into the robot?

      Your team is obviously trying very hard. Answer these
      questions and perhaps we can offer you some better advice!

      -Skye Sweeney


      1. Message by: team_newcomer101 09/18/2004 01:35:31 GMT
        Dear Sky. Sorry to confuse you. Here are my answers.

        1) Do you have a robot built that can turn right and left
        and go forwards and backwards? YES

        2) Does your robot have a light sensor that points down to
        see the floor? YES

        3) Have you used the View mode to see what the robot is
        reporting for light sensor values? YES DARK 40, BRIGHT 50.

        4) Have you looked at one of the line following methods in
        "Toeing the Line" hard enough to understand how it works?
        YES. ONE BOUNCE, FOR MORE ACCURACY

        5) Have you entered the program into the robot?
        YES


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/18/2004 02:26:22 GMT
          No confusion, I just did not know your skill level.

          You folks are doing very well! You have a robot and an
          algorithm. You are way ahead on many other teams.

          You could have a few different problems. The first is the
          value that you are comparing the light sensor to. For this
          algorithm, pick a number 1/2 way between light and dark.
          For your numbers I would try 45.

          The second is that the algorithm you picked may be designed
          for a robot that turns the opposite direction for the given
          motor commands!

          The third is you may have a bug in your program and it is
          not doing what you want it to.

          So start slowly and check one thing at a time. If you still
          have problems, try explaining the problem to someone on
          your team. Often just trying to explain the problem will
          make you find it! If you still have problems, try to find
          another team close by that could come and help you. You
          can also ask for help from a FIRST high school team if you
          have one nearby.

          If none of this works, take a picture of your robot and
          post it with your program on the forum. Somebody here may
          be able to help you find the problem. But remenber, the
          more you can find your own problems without help, the
          stronger your team will be!

          PS: My favorite algorithm is a version of 1!

          -Skye


    4. Message by: salt&lightrobotics1991 09/18/2004 15:49:44 GMT
      I'm new to roblab. How do I go about using the light sesor to count lines? The on line help in the program assumes you have a certain level of their programming knowledge.
      Is there a robolab for dummies document anywhere? We just switched from RIS last Spring and do understand basic use.
      Thanks for your help.
      Dave


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/18/2004 16:12:29 GMT
        Team 1991,

        The concepts you learned in RIS will mostly be the same
        in RoboLab. The syntax will obviously be quite different!

        There are a few RoboLab tutorials floating around the web.
        I am also in the middle of one myself, but it will be at
        least a year before it is ready. Look around these site:
        http://www.hightechkids.org
        http://www.ceeo.tufts.edu/robolabatceeo/
        http://www.fll-freak.com (sample code is available)

        -Skye


    5. Message by: kelleyro2489 09/28/2004 17:29:10 GMT
      I want to use a light sensor to follow a line for only part of the program. What can I use to limit the time the robot actualy follows the line if I am using a light sensor fork to program it to follow the line? For example: I want it to follow the line for 10 seconds and then follow other programing.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/28/2004 17:37:51 GMT
        See answer posted at the first location you asked the question.

        http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?13@@.ee9732b

        -Skye


Discussion: Sub-routines By: See-More 1298 10/11/2004 22:43:24 GMT
Slowly but surely, the programming is starting to seep into my brain. So now I'm ready to help the team move on in their programming skills and understanding.

I know the "how" of creating a sub-routine in robolab. But I'm not clear on the "why" and what kinds of things make for good sub-routines.

Marie

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 09/21/2004 22:41:42 GMT
    Any sequence you use in your programming more than once is a prime candidate for a sub VI. With the focus on line following this year, sub VIs can greatly reduce the steps to building a program.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    Team web site


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/21/2004 22:42:43 GMT
      Marie,

      I assume you are talking a true subroutine and not a sub-vi?

      Subroutine save code space. You can use them to save space
      on a large section of code that gets called a bunch of
      times. The core of a line following algorithm comes to mind.

      Programming a two instruction routine as a subroutine makes
      little sense as the overhead in setting up the subroutine
      may be larger than the instructions themselves. Other than
      as a good skill to teach, subroutine need not be used at all
      unless the team is running out of memory space.

      Also, you must never call a subroutine from a subroutine.
      This can be a hard problem to find especially if the
      subroutine is deep inside a sub-vi that is rarely seen.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: See-More 1298 09/22/2004 19:51:27 GMT
      OK - my ignorance will really show now - What's the difference between a sub-routine and a sub-vi?

      Marie


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/22/2004 20:20:14 GMT
        Marie,

        A sub-vi is nothing more than good old-fashioned shorthand
        notation. "When you see this squiggle, substitute the word
        XYZ". Your document in shorthand may be 1/2 page long,
        but when typed up in long hand may streach over multiple
        pages.

        Using sub-vis makes the top level program simpler to understand.
        A sub-vi that performs a right hand turn may be 6 icons,
        but would only be displayed as one in the main program.
        Each time you use the right hand turn sub-vi, 6 instructions
        get placed into the 'long-hand' version of the program.
        You never normaly see this version, but that is what is
        downloaded to the RCX.

        A true RoboLab subroutine is a different beast. The series
        of instructions of the subroutine are stored only once in
        the long-hand version. When the RCX goes to get the next
        instruction and finds it to be a subroutine, it first saves
        in a special location its current location in the main program.
        It then jumps to the subroutine and executes instructions
        from it untill it hits the end. At this point, the RCX
        remembers where it left off in the main program and returns
        there to get its next instruction.

        A right hand subroutine used in a program 20 times would be
        smaller than the same program that used a right-hand sub-vi.
        The sub-vi program would be larger, but it would also be
        slightly faster.

        Since I had to describe this, I would suggest to learn the
        value of a sub-vi first! They are very very very very handy.
        Subroutines are less so and only needed if you are up against
        a program size problem.

        -Skye


    3. Message by: See-More 1298 09/23/2004 00:37:15 GMT
      Ahh-light bulb! I was making the mistake of thinking that sub-vi's and subroutines were the same thing. Your explanation was very helpful.

      We will stick with creating sub-vi's!

      Thanks!!

      Marie - the newly enlightened coach


    4. Message by: Robomonkeys345 09/26/2004 15:01:31 GMT
      I've found subroutines are generally easier to write and learn then sub-vi's and have the added advantage of actually saving memory. I believe they can be loaded once and will stay in memory until the batteries are removed from the RCX. This could allow you to create a subroutine library, load it once, and use it in all your programs. I agree with Skye in that sub-vi's are generally more useful. If you have the time to teach the team how to use them, go for it but so far it's still on my to-be-taught list.

      From a classic programming perspective, Sub-vi's are basic macros. Their advantage is that they allow the user to create a custom icon and they accept parameters. Contrast this to subroutines, where all parameters must be passed in globals (containers) and the subroutine must be called by number. As Skye pointed out, sub-vi's can take up a lot of memory if used often.

      Not sure who is moderating this form, but this should be in the Robolab thread.


    5. Message by: RoboticButlers3537 10/11/2004 22:22:31 GMT
      Subroutines are used to encapsulate repetitive tasks that you call from a main program's body. This is the basis of structured programming without wich your code would turn into a spaghetti code - easy to develop, a nightmare to maintain and modify; in addition it saves you typing efforts. For example, if your robot is supposed to play a tune after completing each task and it has 5 tasks, you may place the code instructing it to play that tune - five times; or you may just create a subroutine and call it 5 times.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/11/2004 22:41:27 GMT
        The memory space for each of the five slots is seperate. If you define a subroutine to play a tune at the end of each program slot, you will get 5 copies of that subroutine in memory. If you want to play that tune a dozen times inside one program slot, you only get one copy of the instructions to play that tune.

        From reverse engineering the firmware, each program slot has a table to store 8 subroutines and 10 tasks. A subroutine or task defined in one slot is not available in another. See:
        http://www-graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/

        -Skye


Discussion: How to print RIS code By: RoboTechnos_2022 10/06/2004 14:51:44 GMT
I've read that we should provide a print out of code for the judges. Is there any way other than screenshots to do this? We are using RIS, not robolab.

Thanks,
Terri

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/30/2004 13:26:11 GMT
    Try reading the section on RIS in the UFAQ at
    http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

    -Skye


    1. Message by: RoboTechnos_2022 09/30/2004 18:29:06 GMT
      Thanks!

      I looked for
      "The web page http://www.inpharmix.com/cgi/LEGO/LEGO_listing.
      pl has a program to convert RIS programs into printer friendly web pages!"
      but the perl (I assume) code is not longer at this site.
      Does anyone have a copy?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/30/2004 18:38:14 GMT
        That is too bad. I never did get a copy as I am a RoboLab user. I will try to look back and see who wrote it and maybe we can get in touch with him. Then again, perhaps a RIS user has a copy stashed away?

        If not, you can always print out the RIS not as a graphic picture, but in its native text form. Look for the project file and open it with Notepad and print the text.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Wildcats2263 09/30/2004 22:04:39 GMT
        The page is still there. You have to enter it with the word LEGO as lowercase. Works good, but the kids didn't understand it at first as it is a text based print out and they've been working with the graphical interface of the program. I can just hit my print screen button and then paste it into a Word document to get a screen shot. That way we had it in both forms and they could figure out how the two related.
        Monica


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/30/2004 22:39:35 GMT
          Thanks for that info. I will correct the link in the UFAQ.
          -Skye


    2. Message by: Robovipers120 10/06/2004 04:35:44 GMT
      We've been able to print the screen the same way as Monica-Wilddcats 2263 stated but have to exit Mindstorms each time we go to Word to paste the "document". Is there a way to minimize mindstorms or to "copy" more than one screen copy at a time?


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/06/2004 13:19:54 GMT
        to minimize RIS, hold the ALT button and press the tab button.


    3. Message by: Wildcats2263 10/06/2004 14:50:56 GMT
      Great tip. Thanks. I've also done it by using a button on my keyboard that has a little flying window on it in the lower left corner of the keyboard. (The kids taught me that trick when they were playing pinball instead of programming one day. I walked up behind them and suddenly the screen changed. Made them show me what they did. Kids these days. Almost as sneaky as we were!) CTL+ESC also pulls up the bottom control bar on Windows in most programs without a minimize button if you don't have the flying window button.
      Monica


Discussion: Innovative Programming ?! By: DarkMatter1187 10/22/2004 17:00:17 GMT
Award categories this year are Robust Design, Innovative Design, Robust Programming and Innovative Programming. I have no trouble understanding what constitutes robust programming, and there are many ways a robot design can be innovative. However, I'm having trouble seeing how innovative programming is a broad enough area to be able to create an award category. I can think of a only a few ways programming can be innovative: use of programming elements or constructs in an unusual or creative way, for example.

Thoughts, anyone?

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/22/2004 16:43:27 GMT
    It sounds like you nailed it on your own. The simplification of complex tasks through creatively applying programming techniques or constructs is a vital skill for the kids. I have been amazed at some of the things the kids have done in the past in terms of completing complex maneuvers by the use of a simple (to them) yet unusual application of a programming routine.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9

    So how do you tell the RCX what sensor you have connected to each port? It is simple. You need to write a program that uses that sensor and reference the right port. You then need to download that program and run it once. During that first run, the RCX then realizes what sensors you have connected to what ports. It then remembers this configuration untill you run another program that changes the configuration or your baterries die.

    After that first program, the View function should work just great!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: See-More 1298 10/26/2004 19:05:20 GMT
      Ahh - that explains why russian isn't working when speaking to our sensors : )

      Marie
      fluent speaker of gibberish


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/26/2004 19:33:21 GMT
        Russian works well for temperature!!! :)

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


      2. Message by: Londonpirates733 11/07/2004 08:24:03 GMT
        There are two out of five programs that say locked. How do we unlock these so that we can program into them? Thanks. marcia Venzon


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/07/2004 15:15:50 GMT
          Read the UFAQ at http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

          -Skye


      3. Message by: DSI 12/16/2004 01:26:09 GMT
        How many jumps can you use because i think I might of screwed up my program please help Jason form team D.S.I


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 12/16/2004 01:29:31 GMT
          In Robolab, in one program you can only use a single "land" point for any colored "jump." However, you can have multiple "land points" for different colored jumps. (For example by using the Red Jumps/Lands in one area, and the Blue Jumps/Lands in another area.)

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/16/2004 01:40:29 GMT
            If you need more than the few colored jumps, you can use generic jumps and tie a jump number to them. Just start with numbers above the number of colored jumps. The reason is that the colored jumps are really just generic jumps with numbers 1, 2, 3, ...

            -Skye


          2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 12/16/2004 02:23:20 GMT
            Skye's advice on using the "generic numbered jumps" is good advice. I might also add that very rarely is it necessary to use a jump/land combination. The various looping constructs (loop a certain number of times, loop on a sensor value, loop on a timer, etc.) can almost always be used instead.

            If you find yourself running out of colored jumps, consider transforming some of them into loops.

            --ken
            Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      4. Message by: DSI 01/06/2005 22:13:53 GMT
        does any one have any ideas about how to prgram the bus stop sign.


        1. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/07/2005 02:49:05 GMT
          Sure, you program the robot to go to the sign then knock it down, or you could program the robot to fly over the sign and knock it down. You could just knock all 3 down then go back and put the black ones back up to vertical.

          There are hundreds of solutions to the bus sign issue, I'm sure you will find one.

          Laura


    Discussion: Helping Team Move to the Next Level By: See-More 1298 11/02/2004 17:56:48 GMT
    I have a returning young-ish team. Last year, they were more interested in the research so didn't do much with the robot. Their programming skills consisted of only using time and dead-reckoning - no sensors.

    This year, I would like to encourage them to begin to use sensors. But they keep saying "time is easier and faster - I already know how to do that!" Arghh!! I have tried every trick in my little coaching handbook that I can think of. I have shown them the difference in accuracy using the rotation sensor vs time. I have demonstrated the cool-factor of the touch sensor. All to no avail.

    Suggestions?

    Marie
    who has even played robot-waling-off-the-picnic-table to demonstrate the importance of clear, concise language in programming

    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 10/30/2004 15:57:22 GMT
      Marie,

      The issue you face is a difficult one. The problem that you describe (lack of motivation to go for a better solution, when a marginal solution already exists) is a difficult one to tackle. My approach for dealing with this issue is to demonstrate the deficiency of the current solution. If the kids have the drive to pursue excellence or to have the best shot at winning an award, then they will respond and be willing to rework their robot, research project, or whatever.

      However, not all students have that drive or desire. For those students, it doesn't make sense to continue to push them harder. Maybe those same students will be willing to try again harder next year when they have the first-hand experience that their "time-based" programs weren't sufficiently robust to build a competitive robot.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

      PS: A good way to increase robot program reliability (and demonstrate the inaccuracy of timed actions) is to have the students build a second identical robot, and put the same programs into each. (Having a backup robot is a really good idea at a tournament, anyway!) A robust program will give the same behavior with different "copies" of the same robot even with different battery levels. If the program doesn't work in both robots, it will fail in even one robot in different trials as the battery level changes and the way that Lego parts are "squeezed together" changes very slightly over time.


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/01/2004 16:07:43 GMT
        This may sound harsh, but you are the coach, take the block away. We had the same problem my first year. "Time is easier!" so, we had a new rule "No time blocks."

        They took it well and were soon wondering why they didn't do it earlier. I think the real problem was not that it was easier for the kids, but they were afraid to try.

        Have you tried the programming people by cards game? Have the kids write a program to have a person go from A to B. The kids will naturally go to steps. i.e. go 2 steps forward and turn 90 degrees then 4 steps forward. A step is the same as a rotation counter. Most kids don't think in terms of - take steps for 2 seconds, turn right for .5 seconds then go forward for 6 seconds.

        Hope this helps.
        Laura


        1. Message by: SMART 1 11/01/2004 17:37:25 GMT
          I would agree with the sentiment.

          This is the "sport of the mind". If you were a football coach and your team was taking the easy way out in practice and not following your direction and guidance - what would you do? Why should it be different here?

          To me that is what makes this different from just another afterschool activity.

          That said, rotations are not always more accurate than time - depends on the robot and the situation.

          Good luck,

          Peter


      2. Message by: Innovators1120 11/02/2004 17:19:15 GMT
        how can you get a perfect score???????


        1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/02/2004 17:32:11 GMT
          Practice, practice, practice.


        2. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/02/2004 17:56:48 GMT
          Solve all the mission in the time allowed!

          -Skye


    Discussion: program 6,7,etc. By: ManateeMindstormers4203 11/15/2004 15:35:37 GMT
    Can you program more than 5 programs? For example if you bring a laptop to the competition so you can program when you have done all of your already programmed programs?

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/14/2004 18:11:05 GMT
      It is against the rules to program a robot in the competition area. Remember that your download could easely effect the other robot only a few feet away.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: TERMAPOLIS 11/14/2004 19:11:37 GMT
        but, you can use more than one robot, then you can use 1,2 or more RCX (5 programs each RCX).


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/14/2004 19:46:29 GMT
          Good idea, but you can only use one RCX during a match! Read the Allowable Materials rule.

          -Skye


      2. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/15/2004 15:35:37 GMT
        If you have more than 5 programs that your robot needs to run at a match, there are ways to combine them using light, touch or rotation sensors to trigger different parts of a program.

        Example : run program 1.1 if touch1 is out, run program 1.2 if touch1 is in.

        You might have the kids think of ways to combine the programs.

        Laura


    Discussion: Program button By: epes_challengers 11/15/2004 05:03:14 GMT
    It wasn't obvious in the various reading but will we be expected to switch programs via the button on the RCX or via the IR tower? It appears that we can have the computer nearby in order to initiate programs with the tower but what about the program downloading? The tutorial wasn't clear about switching between programs.

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/15/2004 05:03:14 GMT
      You will not be allowed to have a computer near the competition tables. You will be allowed to have one in the pit area. The pits are where you work on your robot between rounds. Therefore you will need to switch programs via the button on the RCX.

      -Skye


    Discussion: Floating motors when program stopped By: fll-freak1328 11/15/2004 17:06:27 GMT
    Does anybody know if it is possible to float a motor when a program is not running? It seems that each time the program stops, all motors are placed in braking/off mode.

    -Skye

    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/15/2004 16:52:59 GMT
      Yes, this can be done, and is something the team I coach just started doing this year. As the last statement before the "Stop Light" place a "Coast" icon with A,B,C ports attached to it. (The "Coast" icon is the Yellow Stop Sign.)

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/15/2004 16:55:58 GMT
        Strange. We tried this and it did not work! The LEGO SDK also had some words to the effect that when not running, all motors were in brake! Will have to try it again!

        -Skye


      2. Message by: warningchokinghazard320 11/15/2004 17:02:06 GMT
        we actually discovered an unintended side effect that had to do with coasting this year. In past years, we had built all of our subVIs to have a stop motors and then a note play at the end of it that the kids use as an audible debugging tool so they can tell where they are in the program. We thought we would take all the stops out of our subVIs this year and put them in only when they were needed so that we wouldn't have such stop and start motion and might get smoother performance.

        When we were creating some mission programs, we noticed that our "forward for rotation" subVI would beep and then keep going for a significant distance beyond where we had measured it to stop. We discovered that, having moved the "stop all motors" step that was before the beep to be after the beep, the beep itself took a long enough time that we kept traveling well beyond our mark!

        Once we put it back, things were predictable again. It was an interesting learnign experience.

        Dave


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/15/2004 17:06:27 GMT
          To add to this, if you look at the implementation of the RoboLab WaitForRotations sub-vi, you will see that it is done with a polling loop. The nasty thing is that there is a 2/100 second delay between samples. A fast robot can move several ticks in that amount of time. Make your own waitfor subvi without the delay and you get even better accuracy.

          -Skye


    Discussion: Double Sensors on One Port By: See-More 1298 11/16/2004 23:42:48 GMT


    1. Message by: See-More 1298 11/16/2004 20:18:23 GMT
      OK - I understand it is possible to put a light sensor and a touch sensor on the same port. I also know that one should use the light sensor icon in Robolab for that port. One of my teams (the one that is way more advanced than their coach!) has been messing with trying to use two sensors. But we are all getting stuck on how to "write" the code to read both.

      Let's say the light sensor value is 40. When it sees less than 40 it turns. When it sees more than 40 it goes straight. If it reads 100, the touch sensor is out. But how do you indicate a touch sensor pushed in?

      Marie the clueless


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/16/2004 20:29:26 GMT
        Marie,

        In this case you do not use any of the touch sensor icons. You have to write a nested if like:


        if (light sensor > 40)
        F T
        | |
        | if (light sensor > 99)
        | F T
        | | |
        | Turn right |
        Turn left | |
        | | We hit so panic stop
        | | |
        | |Fork merge ------+
        | |
        Fork merge-------+
        |
        |


        Hope you can figure out this RoboLab code!

        -Skye


        1. Message by: See-More 1298 11/16/2004 23:42:48 GMT
          I get it! I get it! Thanks so much - such an obvious answer now that I see it. Thanks!

          Marie a little less clueless now!


    Discussion: rotation sensor By: tigers4012 11/17/2004 20:39:09 GMT
    I using system R.I.S and can only do one thing with the rotation sensor. I can make it go a certain distance and stop. when I want to use the rotational sensor again I can't. where do I enter St new commands? Under the first use of the sensor or the second one? thank you, technical tigers

    1. Message by: Robo Rovers 11/17/2004 20:39:09 GMT
      You might want to consider putting your rotation into a wait until command set to a rotation of XX number then once it reaches that location it will perform the next commands. We always reset the rotation sensor after every completed command. I attached and example of how we used it very successfully.


    Discussion: looking for program... By: See-More 1298 01/15/2005 21:38:30 GMT
    A non-FLL type question!

    My son is now also on a FIRST team and is very interested in the design portion of the robot. Are there any design programs out there (is CAD the right term?) that work on a Mac in OSX?

    Thanks!!

    Marie - now entering waters so far over her head that she is renting scuba gear

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/15/2004 20:53:58 GMT
      Marie,

      If CAD is what you want, then here is the tool you want. Seems to run on Mac as well. It will allow you to make a model by placing parts in a virtual world.

      http://www.ldraw.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=126

      -Skye


      1. Message by: Wildcats2263 12/16/2004 20:13:16 GMT
        Marie,
        The site Skye gave you is for Lego CAD. Great program, but I think you're looking for a real CAD (Computer Aided Design) program. FIRST partners with a company called Autodesk, but I don't know if it runs on a Mac. They have a link on FIRST's sponsor page, http://www.usfirst.org/about/2004frcsponsors.htm . The FIRST teams might get copies of Autodesk in their kits.

        Enjoy learning to swim again! My husband's been involved with FIRST for many years and it's a neat, though highly time intensive, program. Legos are much easier than cutting steel!

        Monica


      2. Message by: BooneBricksters100 01/08/2005 23:50:42 GMT
        I use MLCAD, a really easy to use LEGO cad. (MLCAD stands for Mike's Lego CAD) I attached it's readme because it has information on how to download it and all the other things you need.


      3. Message by: See-More 1298 01/13/2005 23:57:57 GMT
        Thanks for the lego cad suggestions - they may come in handy for next season.

        In the meantime, though, I'm really looking for something more "real" - for designing the FIRST robots made out of motors, gyros and other good stuff.

        Marie


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/14/2005 00:11:51 GMT
          Although I detest the Autocad company for its predatory behaviour, the AutoCad product is the leading product. They make it in various price ranges.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: See-More 1298 01/14/2005 23:41:28 GMT
            No fear there - it doesn't work on a mac!

            Marie


            1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/15/2005 02:14:15 GMT
              How could I forget that you are a Mac user!

              -Skye


              1. Message by: See-More 1298 01/15/2005 21:38:30 GMT
                Don't know - must of missed noticing the apple tattoed on my forehead : )

                Marie


      4. Message by: marist 01/14/2005 01:05:09 GMT
        If you are looking for a 2D drawing program that is cross-platform (mac OSX, windows, unix) take a look at QCAD. It's very cheap (<$30), easy to use and very powerful. You can find it here http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html

        --Peter


        1. Message by: See-More 1298 01/14/2005 23:41:59 GMT
          Thanks Peter - that looks like the entry-level type thing we are looking for!

          Marie


    Discussion: how to set up the mat By: milliwatts4561 01/20/2005 22:25:46 GMT
    i'm wondering, once you've made up everything that goes onto the mat, how do you set it up? I mean were does everything go?

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/20/2005 22:25:46 GMT
      Try reading the setup instructions! You can find them here:
      http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14160

      While you are at it, read the UFAQ here:

      http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

      -Skye


    Discussion: how to set up the mat By: milliwatts4561 01/20/2005 22:26:17 GMT
    i'm wondering, once you've made up everything that goes onto the mat, how do you set it up? I mean were does everything go?

    Discussion: leJOS By: nutbots3615 02/28/2005 23:58:11 GMT
    Is the leJOS(lego java operating system) is it legal to program the robot in this language

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/23/2005 01:59:36 GMT
      A quick read of the rules indicates that the ONLY languages allowed for FLL are RCX and RoboLab. As a side note, since Mindscripts is a part of RCX, it may be used as well.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: thunderbolts11 02/28/2005 23:40:42 GMT
        What Skye meant to say was RIS and Robolab, not RCX, I think

        Laura


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/28/2005 23:58:11 GMT
          That is correct. RIS and Robolab are the only allowable FLL languages for the RCX.

          Good grief! What an alphabet soup!

          -Skye


    Discussion: leJOS By: nutbots3615 02/22/2005 23:21:04 GMT
    Is the leJOS(lego java operating system) is it legal to program the robot in this language


    Folder: Miscellaneous 04/26/2005 14:34:33 GMT


    Discussion: Wanted To Swap - Your Robolab CD for Our RIS CD By: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/13/2005 22:44:50 GMT


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 09/23/2004 05:33:59 GMT
      Wanted To Swap - Your Robolab CD for Our RIS CD

      We are looking to swap a Robotics Invention System 2.0 CD for a Robolab 2.5 (or later) CD. The team I coach has exclusively used Robolab for programming, and we have a RIS 2.0 CD that is collecting dust. We could really use an additional Robolab CD. It occurred to me that there are surely many FLL teams that use exclusively RIS 2.0, and have Robolab CDs that are collecting dust.

      We would like to be able to swap our RIS 2.0 CD for your Robolab 2.5 (or later) CD. Please send email to me at fll-coach@mindstormsmayhem.org if you would be able to do this swap.

      Thanks!

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem
      http://www.mindstormsmayhem.org


      1. Message by: spiders1505 10/27/2004 07:00:07 GMT
        Ken

        Sorry, we had a local meeting last night and we all promoted Robolab.

        I would like to also exchange our IS DC for anybody willing to exchange for Robolab. I am assuming that we cannot use the Robolab DC to install on multiple computers?

        One of our teachers recommending buying the mufti-user site license for $250 (approximately).

        Kelvin Dan
        Team 1505 S.P.I.D.E.R.S.


      2. Message by: spiders1505 10/27/2004 07:01:22 GMT
        (don't use the spellcheck)
        Ken

        Sorry, we had a local meeting last night and we all promoted Robolab.

        I would like to also exchange our RIS CD for anybody willing to exchange for Robolab. I am assuming that we cannot use the Robolab CD to install on multiple computers?

        One of our teachers recommending buying the multi-user site license for $250 (approximately).

        Kevin Dang
        Team 1505 S.P.I.D.E.R.S.


      3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 10/30/2004 16:10:47 GMT
        Kevin,

        Thanks for letting us know. We haven't heard back from anybody with our initial request to swap our RIS 2.0 CD for a Robolab CD -- it seems like either the request isn't getting out to those that have unused Robolab CDs, or there isn't any interest in making the swap.

        We're still hoping to get a spare Robolab CD!

        --ken
        Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      4. Message by: MindStormTroopers 01/09/2005 22:28:41 GMT
        ken,
        Just a sugestion, if you still need a Robolab CD, you could get one off of eBay. No offense to anyone, but i'm not sure it would be a good idea to trust anyone on here to actually ship it to you. You'd be better off on eBay.


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 01/13/2005 22:44:50 GMT
          MindStormTroopers:

          I am still looking for a Robolab CD to swap.

          Thanks for the eBay suggestion. I have checked out that avenue, but the price there seems to be about the same as purchasing a new one from Pitsco/Lego.

          I was hoping that we could work a win-win situation for a team that isn't using Robolab, but would appreciate an extra RIS 2.0 CD.

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem

          PS: I've actually found the folks here to be a pretty honest lot with respect to shipping items back and forth. Then again, "caveat emptor" and your mileage may vary...


    Discussion: RTX problem By: Ninjaeagles2436 10/21/2004 22:09:22 GMT
    Hello this is Anne Adams from team ninjaeagles from Keithville we need help, our RCX is locked. How do we fix it?

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/01/2004 18:44:42 GMT
      Hello Anne,

      I assume by locked you mean you got an error message saying that you can't download to slot one or two because they are locked?

      If that is the case, the answer is simple but is slightly different based on RIS or Robolab. In both cases, if you poke around under "adminstrator" menus, you should find a check box to unlock the two slots. If you can't find it, tell us what language, and we can give the the exact steps.

      Or better yet, visit the UFAQ at www.fll-freak.com/faq and look under General Programing!

      -Skye


      1. Message by: MA FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/01/2004 18:45:07 GMT
        I am not sure what you mean by locked and I don't know if this will help,try removing the batteries and wait a few minutes and re-install the batteries.


      2. Message by: Country Breakfast 10/08/2004 17:37:46 GMT
        Did you download the firmware yet? If you haven't, it'll be impossible program anything onto your RCX. Anytime the competition starts, this should be the first step. Can't program unless you have firmware. Wow, this is really incoherent. I hope you understand what we mean...

        Good luck!

        ~Country Breakfast~
        ~ DarkVoid924 and StarryGurl~


      3. Message by: LynwoodTigers3192 10/18/2004 02:29:13 GMT
        My team has a question regarding the programming of the RCX. Although we don't change the batteries that often, every time we try to download a program into the RCX it reloads the firmware (obviously very time consuming). I am not sure why this is happening, because we've never had the problem before. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

        Stephanie Rieder
        Coach Lynwood Tigers3192


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/18/2004 03:42:24 GMT
          Are you following the recommended procedure as outlined in the UFAQ (http://www.fll-freak.com/faq)? Never more than one battery removed at a time? If you are, than I can only assume that the capacitor in the RCX must not be functioning properly.

          -Skye


      4. Message by: See-More 1298 10/20/2004 19:25:25 GMT
        Also, be aware if the rcx is being bumped or jolted a lot. We had one rcx that the slightest little bump would cause the battery connections to jiggle loose, thus loosing the firmware. (We retired that one!)

        Marie
        coach for See-More, Robotic Doors and Fuzzy Monkeys Insights


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/20/2004 19:50:03 GMT
          Marie,
          Sometimes it is just the fingers that contact the batteries that get weak. Bending them slightly inwards towards the baterry may get rid of this problem. I hate to see you retire an RCX!

          -Skye


      5. Message by: See-More 1298 10/21/2004 22:09:22 GMT
        Well...too late now. One of the kids, in attempting to bend the finger contact in broke it off entirely. We had been having other issues with that one anyway - one of the input ports stopped working, sometimes the firmware wouldn't take - you know -gremlins!

        Marie


    Discussion: NQC By: wcasd386 10/23/2004 03:32:38 GMT
    Are we allowed to use the programming language NQC if we are more formiliar with it? NQC is a text based programming language instead of the RoboLab icon software.

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/23/2004 03:32:38 GMT
      Please read the rules here:
      http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14150

      The section called SOFTWARE should answer your question.

      -Skye


    Discussion: How to Download Intenet Music By: CIA4329 11/18/2004 18:12:37 GMT
    Does anybody know how to download music off the internet and put it on the bot? I've tried eveything, and i need help.

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/16/2004 18:32:57 GMT
      An RCX will not simply take your mp3 or wav and play it. The audio ability of the RCX is limited to monophonic (single note) tones. I have seen a program that will take a MIDI file and convert one track to NQC instructions, but nothing for RIS and RoboLab. Your best bet is to get monophonic sheet music and enter it by hand.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: CIA4329 11/18/2004 18:12:37 GMT
        Ah. Too bad Thanks anyway.


    Discussion: HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By: Comet Robotics 4116 12/22/2004 06:32:49 GMT
    OUR ROBOT REFUSES TO BE PROGRAMED!!!!
    it's within range of the tower (or so it says) and will not accept new firm ware ether, it says that there was an error comunicateing with the robot!

    HELP!!!!

    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/30/2004 16:02:21 GMT
      Take the batteries out for a couple of minutes and try again. If that does not work, you may have a bad rcx. Call Lego and get another.

      Laura


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/30/2004 16:05:00 GMT
        Take a deep breath!

        Rather than play 20 questions, try to provide some more details. Has it ever worked? When did it stop? What language are you using? What type of tower (serial or USB)? Does the green light on the tower come on? Do you have the RCX turned on ? The more details you can provide, the easier and faster this community can try to help you.

        -Skye


      2. Message by: Marist War Eagles 3433 11/30/2004 19:26:15 GMT
        Try covering the IR tower and the RCX with a box or turning off all the lights. Ambient light can disrupt the communications between the tower and RCX.


      3. Message by: Comet Robotics 4116 12/01/2004 14:57:55 GMT
        thanks guys.... ok... skye it worked fine the day before, it all works except the rcx will not be programed... we are trying your sugestions and will post if they work.


      4. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 12/01/2004 18:18:16 GMT
        We were practicing last night, and one mission we had down pat would not work right. It would run about half the program and shut off the program. Even if we resent the program. This slot we had it so that you use a touch sensor to alter what is done, progarm a or program b. So we swapped a and b. Crazy thing still did what it wanted to. So we left the batteries out for a while and resent everything. It works now. It was crazy because there are two programs that we use a touch sensor to decide what to do. Both of the were acting up. But now all is well.


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/01/2004 18:35:04 GMT
          I have seen at times what I think is either a firmware corruption, or a memory map corruption issue. Sometimes just erasing all the programs out of the RCX will clear the problem, other times pulling the batteries is the only solution. Glad you are back up and running.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 12/01/2004 22:14:54 GMT
            Me too..


          2. Message by: theendeffectors3781 12/17/2004 17:04:18 GMT
            We have experienced the same problem (same program flaking out on occasion for no reason) with programs that use the touch sensor to branch (the touch sensor is also stacked with a light sensor to the same port). We have been able to get things going by reloading the programs - our concern is that it is totally unpredictable. Is there anything we can do short of eliminating the use of that sensor combination?


          3. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 12/17/2004 18:05:47 GMT
            The End Effectors:

            When using the touch sensor and light sensor stacked, are you using only the light sensor icons in your program? When stacking the touch and light sensors, it is important to only use the light sensor icon to check the sensor. When the touch sensor is not pressed, the value seen by the program will be the light level (typically between 30 and about 55). When the touch sensor is pressed, the program will see a light value of 100.

            The team I coach has found this "stacking" to be completely reliable in their robot over the past three years. However, if you ever try to use one of the touch sensor icons, you will get unusual, erratic behavior.

            If the above is not your problem, then I'm not sure how to suggest to proceed. Mindstorms Mayhem has found that "flaky robot behavior" can generally be fixed by removing the batteries from the RCX to force memory loss, and then reloading firmware and the programs. It does seem that over time some sort of "memory management" issues can affect the RCX and lead to odd behavior. Reloading firmware has always fixed this issue when the team has encountered it.

            --ken
            Coach,
            Mindstorms Mayhem


            1. Message by: theendeffectors3781 12/22/2004 06:32:49 GMT
              Ken,
              One of our programs uses (mistakenly) the touch sensor icon. We have taken a break recently but need to gear up for the state tournament - thanks for your comments.


      5. Message by: Comet Robotics 4116 12/02/2004 15:11:04 GMT
        YAYAYAY!!!!!!!! it works!!!!!!!! we removed the batteries, PUT THEM BACK IN! AND COVERED IT WITHA JACKECT AND IT RELOADED THE FIRMWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        sorry about the caps, but I am HAPPY!!


      6. Message by: Projekt Lightning 12/06/2004 23:26:30 GMT
        Hi. my name is Nancy and i am in lego meet. i am very happy about being in it


    Discussion: Printing from RIS? By: MindStormTroopers 01/09/2005 22:31:48 GMT
    Does anyone know how to print programs from Robotics Invention System?

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/08/2005 19:01:39 GMT
      Read the UFAQ at http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

      -Skye


      1. Message by: MindStormTroopers 01/09/2005 22:31:48 GMT
        Thanks, that software is awesome.


    Discussion: leJOS By: nutbots3615 04/26/2005 14:34:33 GMT


    1. Message by: nutbots3615 04/25/2005 22:22:34 GMT
      LeJOS is a Java transcript for the RCX. It is like Robo lab and might even be a type of Robo lab, but I am not sure if it is legal or not.


      1. Message by: SMART 1 04/26/2005 14:34:33 GMT
        leJOS is not legal. Only Robolab and RIS are legal. Mindscripts (as a variant of RIS) is also legal. Robolab, RIS and Mindscripts all use the standard firmware.

        I believe LeJOS uses alternative firmware.

        Regards,

        Peter



    Folder: Robolab Questions 03/29/2005 19:15:16 GMT



    Folder: MACS 10/07/2004 21:27:31 GMT


    Discussion: APPLE MAC USERS By: jemath857 10/07/2004 21:27:31 GMT
    I would like to hear from any rookie teams (or experienced ones for that matter) who are using Mac computers with Robolab. I have a great group of experienced coaches at my school, but they are all PC users. I would be happy to share our experience on getting started and would love to hear any tips that you might have garnered along the way.

    Do that "powers that be" have know if there are any plans to migrate Robolab to OS X? Having to change my startup disk everytime I switch between "Robotics Coach" and my day job is a pain. :)

    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 09/17/2004 05:42:14 GMT
      I am not one of the "powers that be," but I would give a call to the Lego Education Division if I were you. The following web page indicates that OS X Robolab software is coming in Oct 2004 in the big "banner ad." Deeper on the site, the Robolab 2.5.4 software is advertised as being Mac OS X compatible. It looks like this software is still on "pre-order" but that is not entirely clear.

      http://www.legoeducationstore.com/catalog.cfm


      1. Message by: jemath857 09/17/2004 08:38:12 GMT
        Thanks for the info...not sure how i missed that. A little less useful "mid challenge" than it would have been otherwise. I'll be interested to learn the definition of "OS X compatible", there are a few possibilites.


        1. Message by: AuroraEngineers116 09/17/2004 22:28:26 GMT
          In this case, "OS X compatible" means OS X Native--It works great.


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/17/2004 22:33:02 GMT
            I have also been told that it is backwards compatible
            with previous versions of RoboLab.

            -Skye


      2. Message by: jemath857 09/19/2004 06:39:40 GMT
        I'm thrilled to hear that it is OS X native. Yahoo! Have you got a beta/advanced copy or have you been able to get it commercially? I'm getting an Oct release date on my end. Thanks1


        1. Message by: AuroraEngineers116 09/19/2004 06:58:17 GMT
          Copies of 2.5.4 were handed out at the RoboLab conference last month in Austin, TX. I'm not sure why Pitsco is waiting until Oct.


          1. Message by: psychedelicmonkeys405 10/01/2004 21:52:42 GMT
            Interesting; I'm a 4th year coach and was planning to post the simple news: RoboLab 2.5.4(B?) is now available for OS/X. But you guys new it was coming.

            I called Pitsco back in early September and asked about it. They said "early October" and they let me pre-order it. It arrived on my doorstep today, and it came with one CD for OS/9 and OS/X, and a second CD for Windoze.

            So: how did you find out about a RoboLab conference? Granted I wouldn't have made it from Maine to Texas, but inquiring minds want to know.

            -Del Merritt, Coach Team #405


            1. Message by: AuroraEngineers116 10/07/2004 21:27:31 GMT
              There was a post to lugnet announcing the conference. It was held in conjunction w/NIWeek i.e. a LabVIEW conference. I think that it is going to be an annual event.

              I usually attend NIWeek and so was able to sit in on a few ROBOLAB sesions.


      3. Message by: jemath857 10/02/2004 20:06:58 GMT
        Got mine yesterday! Yipee!



    Folder: Robolab- using light sensors 10/26/2004 19:21:21 GMT
    Does anyone know how to write a simple program where you use a light sensor to follow a line for only part of the time? I know how to program it to follow the line- its just how to tell it to stop after 10 seconds and go on with other programing.

    Discussion: Stopping an LFA By: fll-freak1328 09/28/2004 17:35:24 GMT
    Stopping a Line Following Algorithm (LFA) is fairly simple. At this point you must have an infinite loop running the guts of the algorithm. Most likely you are using a colored jump/land pair. Simply replace the jump/land with a loop construct. Run the guts 10 times, for 10 minutes, for 100 rotation counts, till a touch sensor is pressed, or any other of the loop iterators that are available in Robolab.
    -Skye

    Discussion: Red Green and White By: See-More 1298 10/26/2004 19:21:37 GMT
    Our teams are noticing that we do not get more than a one to two point difference in the light sensor reading between red, green and white. Are other teams also finding that there is no practical distinction between the colors? Or are we missing something?

    Marie

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/24/2004 21:38:06 GMT
      Marie,
      You should read the chapter on the light sensor in the online book "Build LEGO Robot for FIRST LEGO League." There is a lot of variables that can effect your results!

      -Skye


      1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 10/25/2004 19:59:03 GMT
        The Lego light sensor is a neat little representative for "No Limits" in that the light sensor is color-blind! The light sensor only gives a single "light/dark" value, so different colors are only distinguished by their lightness/darkness. Furthermore, with the "light" being by the light sensor being a red LED, the light sensor doesn't actually see in "shades of gray" but in "shades of red."

        A neat way to illustrate this to the students is to have them put on a pair of "red only" glasses. This effect can be produced by holding up a piece of red cellophane and looking through it at the mat. Doing this is quite revealing! (An even better pair of these glasses can be made by using a pair of "3-D" glasses to make a single "red only" pair.)

        I won't "give away" the results, but distinguishing some of those colors on the mat is pretty tough in a "red only" world...

        --ken
        Coach,
        Mindstorms Mayhem


      2. Message by: See-More 1298 10/26/2004 19:08:56 GMT
        Skye - what's the addy for that online book?

        Ken - we'll definitely give that a try - cool idea -thanks!

        Marie


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/26/2004 19:21:21 GMT
          You can find a COPY here ( http://www.mission-creek.com/robotics/library.html ) or (if you are willing to create an account) you can find it at its original source at www.hightechkids.org

          -Skye


    Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: fll-freak1328 11/12/2004 13:56:10 GMT
    Fellow FLLer,

    Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
    questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
    the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
    have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
    year's rule changes.

    The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

    You can find the FAQ at:

    http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

    Skye Sweeney
    Skye@fll-freak.com

    1. Message by: Cyborgs1977 11/12/2004 09:58:06 GMT
      When fetching the glasses back to base, must the glasses be entirely within the base before the mission ends, or if the glasses are partially in the base, may we pick up the robot with the glasses and set up for the next mission?

      Thanks.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/12/2004 13:56:10 GMT
        As per the rules, the glasses need just nick the base for you to manualy pull them completely into base.

        -Skye


    Discussion: Difficulty running RoboLab 2.5.1 By: fll-freak1328 09/23/2004 01:59:00 GMT
    Yikes! Just when I thought I could solve any RoboLab issue...

    Installed RoboLab 2.5.1 from disk to a brand new computer
    running XP Home. Install went fine. Installed the Tower files
    via the install program. Rebooted. Attached the tower and used
    the "New Hardware wizard" to install them. Rebooted. Started up
    RoboLab. Works fine. Created a dummy program. Selected USB1 as
    the serial port. Hit the download button and the machine locks
    up big time. No mouse, not C-A-Del. Nothing.

    Cycled power and tried again. Same thing.
    Cycled power and uninstalled the software and did the above steps again. Still dead.

    Did this two more times just for the fun of it. Still dead.

    Tried to force compatability mode to Win-98 and Win-95.

    Tried both the front and back USB jacks on my tower.

    Tested the tower on another computer. It does work.

    Tested the USB port with a thumbdrive and it works ok.

    Robolab works fine on my other machines running XP Pro. Does
    XP Home have any issues that I should known about when dealing
    with RoboLab?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    -Skye Sweeney.

    1. Message by: XTreme 09/16/2004 04:40:45 GMT
      Yes, just fixed this last week - you will need to download and install the latest "USB Tower" patch from the Lego site:

      http://www.lego.com/eng/education/mindstorms/home.asp?pagename=download


      1. Message by: ScienceGoesBoink0002 09/16/2004 04:41:41 GMT
        We had the same problem. There is a patch available for download from www.legomindstorms.com. Look on the lower right of the page that comes up. It worked for us.


      2. Message by: RoboQuest 09/16/2004 05:19:50 GMT
        Finally! Thank you for the information because I have been waiting for Lego or Robolab to fix this issue.

        I built a new computer back in January and it took me all spring to figure out the issue. The old USB tower drivers are not compatible with hyperthreading technology on the latest Intel chips. The only way to use the tower was to go into the BIOS, disable hyperthreading and then re install the Win XP operating system! I opted to forget that and went out and bought a serial port tower. I probably got it right before Lego posted that patch. Sigh.

        On another related note, those of you running Robolab 2.5.0 or earlier and using the Win XP New File Technology System (NFTS) will need to get a patch from the Tufts University Robolab website. That incompatibility issue will also create some of the same lock up problems as the tower driver issue.

        - Mike Wallis


      3. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/16/2004 12:44:56 GMT
        This is what is so great about FLL and this forum. Within
        just a few hours I have a solution to a problem that would
        have been a show stopper. Now I have a possible solution.

        In any other sport, I would have been left to hang as it
        would have improved other peoples chances to win.

        Thank you folks for this answer. It will be added to the
        FAQ as soon as I verify the solution.

        -Skye Sweeney


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/16/2004 20:36:10 GMT
          Solution verified.
          The FAQ has been updated to version 04b.
          Thanks so much.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: RoboQuest 09/17/2004 03:09:43 GMT
            Just out of insatiable curiosity, can anyone confirm my belief that the USB tower issue only occurs on machines with hyperthreading technology?

            If you don't know off hand if your system has this capability, you can easily check it by pressing esc. or the F4 key during the boot up process and going into the bios. You don't have to change anything, just read what the settings are. If you don't have any clue what I am talking about, I would not reccommend messing around!


            1. Message by: fll-freak1328 09/17/2004 03:13:41 GMT
              Machine that works does not have Hyper the one that failed
              does. One data point in favor of the hypothesis.

              -Skye


            2. Message by: XTreme 09/23/2004 01:34:04 GMT
              My machine is XP - NO hyper threading and I had to load the patch. It may be a USB 2.0 incompatibility or a motherboard chipset incompatibility.


    Discussion: Robot goes nutts sometimes By: thunderbolts11 10/14/2004 15:41:49 GMT
    Every now and then the robot will not run the program in the slot, but rather run a random set of instructions. Usually we just turn it off and on and its k. But... my kids don't want to use Robolab now since they think it is unstable. Is there something we are doing wrong?

    Laura

    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/04/2004 02:34:17 GMT
      It is hard to diagnose something like this remotely!

      Are you working with just one robot and computer? If not, I would guess that you are cross downloading your robots. That is, one team is download their robot with another robot in range of the tower. They then both get the program or some part of the program. This can lead to very strange behaviour.

      Read the UFAQ at www.fll-freak.com/faq about 'garages'.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: AtkinsonNH210 10/04/2004 05:57:13 GMT
        Laura,

        Remember that global container values are retained between program runs - if the program is using those, make sure they are initialized at the beginning of the program.

        Have the kids make sure that every program step has all the modfiers required (i.e. port numbers, motor numbers, sensor values/limits). In my experience, this is the most common problem encountered, and it can cause seemingly random behavior because steps get skipped if they don't have the right modifiers attached. Unfortunately, Robolab doesn't catch these kinds of problems the way it does with broken wires.

        Another thing to check is to make sure that commands are included to explicitly turn off motors when you need them off - this can also cause problems, the cause of which is not immediately apparent.

        - Scott Kukshtel, Coach


        1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/04/2004 14:58:53 GMT
          The funny thing is it will run fine 3 times without turning off the rcx then just charge across the table and mow over everything. Then we turn it off and on and its fine.

          I'll look at their programs more closely and check the modifiers. I know they like to use the defaults, maybe they should specify them more carefully.

          Thanks,
          Laura


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/04/2004 15:34:12 GMT
            Laura,
            If they did not specify the port modifiers, it would always fail the same way! Do they use containers as Scott mentioned? When you say "turn on and off" are you talking about just the red power button, or removing the baterries and reloading firmware?
            -Skye


            1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/04/2004 15:52:24 GMT
              Sky,
              We use containers, but we have them in a sub-vi that clears them for us each time we use them. And yes "turn off and on" is just the red and green buttons. We haven't had to remove the batteries.

              Laura


              1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/04/2004 16:17:02 GMT
                Laura,
                There are a bunch of possibilities.
                1) You have a bad firmware download. Pop the baterries for one minute and start fresh.
                2) You have a bug in your program. Add beeps in strategic places to trace what is happening.
                3) You have found a bug in Robolab (unlikely).
                4) You have a bad RCX (unlikely).

                If you wish,you can bundle up your code and send it to me for a quick inspection. I promise not to divulge anything to anyone.
                (skye@fll-freak.com)

                -Skye


                1. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 10/08/2004 22:12:09 GMT
                  Our programmers have found a strange occurance which just showed up when we (finally) upgraded from RoboLab 2.0 to 2.5.0 A container value in one of the sub vi's gets corrupted when the vi is used in a subroutine, yet if the
                  same sub vi is called incline there is no problem. (It works fine in RoboLab 2.0, whether called incline or in a subroutine). In this occurance, a value is passed to the sub vi via the blue container (no terminals in the sub vi
                  except begin/end). Within the subvi, the blue container value (set by the calling subvi) is manipulated several times. It is after this manipulation (Container add & multiply ) that the error occurs. (We've traced it, using
                  other containers to record it's value at different points in the subvi.)

                  We've found a workaround by transferring the blue container data into a new container for further manipulation within the subroutine. We don't know why this is needed. Has anybody else seen anything like this? (By the way this error is repeatable on multiple robots with both fresh and stale firmware).

                  BTW thanks, Skye for the great help you provide to our FLL community!

                  John Wanninger, Coach


                  1. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 10/08/2004 22:20:43 GMT
                    Oops - I got tangled up with spell checker in my post above - 'incline' should really be 'inline'.

                    John


                  2. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/09/2004 03:31:43 GMT
                    Any chance you can distil the problem down into a small program you could post here? Not that I have alot of time, but it would be fun to look at!

                    -Skye


                    1. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 10/09/2004 06:52:07 GMT
                      I've distilled it down to a pretty simple example:

                      MySub.vi plays a sound using the value of the blue container, waits a second then enters a loop where it plays a sound using the value of the blue container. I set the loop counter to 1.

                      In the example Inline.vi, I fill the Blue container with 3, and then follow it with MySubvi.vi and then the stoplight.

                      In the example Subroutine.vi, I create Subroutine 0 which branches off to MySubvi.vi and then a stoplight. The main trunk continues with fill the Blue container with 3, and then run subroutine 0 and then the stoplight.

                      When I run Inline.vi, the robot plays the sound (3=sweep) twice, as it should. When I run Subroutine.vi, I hear the Sweep sound once, and then a faint click. The reason for the click is that the blue container value is no longer 3, it is actually -1. Really scary in such a simple example.

                      I've included the 3 vi's in a zip file if anyone wants to see if their results are similar. (BTW, I'm using RoboLab 2.5.0)

                      John


                      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/09/2004 15:58:27 GMT
                        I have duplicated your problem on 2.5.2. I found that in a subroutine, the blue container gets set to zero after the first beep (the one outside the loop). I used the "Set Display" icon to push the value of the blue container to the display. This is a handy debug feature!

                        Not sure what is going on. I will look into it a bit more later today.

                        -Skye


                        1. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 10/09/2004 21:24:31 GMT
                          That 'Set Display' is handy - thanks for the tip! After the first beep I'm getting '3' which agrees with the beep and then it changes to '0' when it's in the loop and then changes to -1 when the play sound is called inside the loop. (I did add some 'wait for time's in between to slow things down so I could see the display). I then got rid of the loop and the display stayed at '3'.

                          John


                    2. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 10/09/2004 07:18:45 GMT
                      One other thing I've noticed, is that putting the 'read blue container value' within a loop seems to bring out the problem. Other 'read blue container's outside of loops seem to work ok. I also tried passing the blue container value to another container, and then having that new container in the loop - that seems to work ok. Finally I started substituting other containers for the blue, and I found that the other containers do NOT seem to have this problem; (so far) I've only seen the blue container exhibit this strange behavior.

                      John


                      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/09/2004 21:53:28 GMT
                        I do know that the loop index is stored as a variable for use inside the loop. I wonder if they are nailing the blue container by mistake? Might be interesting to make your loop run say 10 times and see if blue counts down!

                        -Skye


                        1. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 10/09/2004 23:04:15 GMT
                          Bingo Skye! - I tried increasing Blue Value to 100 and changing loops to 20. Blue Value gets reset to 19 at loop, and keeps decrementing with each loop. Looks like there's a variable mapping problem within either RoboLab or the robot firmware. Don't know if I'll get a chance, but it might be interesting to divert the download to a text file to see if it offers any clues.

                          John


      2. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/04/2004 14:55:59 GMT
        Nope. One robot- one computer. We have a garage when we travel, but at the house, its 1-1.


      3. Message by: BoulderBeasts54 10/04/2004 20:38:04 GMT
        Last year as our programs got large there were occasions that when we downloaded a program in one slot a program in an adjacent slot would malfunction. Redownloading the malfunctioning program would generally fix the problem. Occasionally we would would have to completely wipe the RCX memory and start over.

        This only happened when we were very nearly out of memory.

        -Dale


      4. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/10/2004 02:23:54 GMT
        I have found the problem. RoboLab normaly uses container 47 as its first level loop counter. When called as a subroutine it uses container number 1. Container 1 is the blue container. I have hunted back in the bowels of RoboLab but have yet to find the smoking gun.

        Could somebody with the latest version of Robolab please try this and verify the error?

        Meanwhile I will continue the hunt.

        Added later: It gets worst! If you nest two loops, it will use containers 1 (blue) and 2 (yellow)! In inline it uses 33 and 34. These container numbers seem rather random. Off to download the SDK and look in the assembler docs.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/11/2004 15:27:44 GMT
          This is direct from the LEGO SDK:

          i LASM syntax:

          i decvjn variable number, label or jump distance

          i Explanation:

          i Decrements the variable and jumps if the variable is negative afterwards. This is the preferred way of implementing loops as it does not rely on internal state information like the SetLoopCounter / CheckLoopCounter commands. Since it uses ordinary variables it also allows direct access to the loop counter for conditional termination of loops.

          This instruction is what RoboLab uses to implement loops. This means is that the choice of loop variables is not imposed by the firmware, but a choice that RoboLab makes. And at this point it would seem fairly obvious that the code they use to pick the variables is flawed. Someplace inside the compiler they must select the loop variable. This code must be sensitive to inline vs. subroutine. Still trying to find it!

          -Skye


          1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/11/2004 16:07:07 GMT
            OK, now for those idiots (like me) that have no idea what you are talking about! I'm guessing since we havn't run into any problems with the containers, that I don't need to worry about this. Any help for the less informed????

            RoboManiacs
            Team #9

            Does anybody else recall the new features in Robolab 2.5.x?

            --ken
            Coach,
            Mindstorms Mayhem


            1. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 10/14/2004 15:41:49 GMT
              Hi Ken -thanks, yes, these "opportunities" never seem to let up. Maybe not what the team expected or wanted, but none-the-less a chance to learn and apply some new debugging skills, and perhaps a life lesson. The team also had to re-make all the SubVIs they brought into 2.5 as the wiring to the Begin and End terminals was 'broken' in the SubVIs they transferred over from 2.0.

              John


Discussion: External subroutines and variables By: North Shore Funky Robo Hobos 10/12/2004 12:54:08 GMT
I have seen reference in some of the documentation to the ability to call externally defined subroutine (i. routines defined in their own vi) but the write-up and exercises in "using Robolab" seem to focus exclusively on explicitly defined (e. internally declared) routines. Can anyone point me to a description on how to create external routines and to pass variables to them (I am guessing containers)? We are migrating from IS and have a standard set of "my blocks" that we are looking to create.

  1. Message by: warningchokinghazard320 10/07/2004 05:49:08 GMT
    doing this from memory...

    create your program. select everything except the go light and the stop light and any parameters you want as external input. choose "create subvi" from the menu. everything selected will get condensed down into a new vi icon that you can save as an external file. yiu can modify the icon that was created and rename the parameters as well.

    Try it out. - if it is unclear, I'll post better insttructions.

    Dave


    1. Message by: North Shore Funky Robo Hobos 10/07/2004 08:12:43 GMT
      Thanks Dave.
      Worked exactly as described.
      Good memory!
      Lance


    2. Message by: North Shore Funky Robo Hobos 10/11/2004 07:42:43 GMT
      So having had a chance to mess with this for a bit, I now have two additional questions:
      1) When I create Sub vi's in this manner, the begin and end are at the opposite ends of the program object thread to where I expect to find them(e. the end shows up on the left and the begin on the right). Functionality seems to be fine; does this matter?
      2) I have been unable to find a directory location to put the sub vi's so that they will show up when the "my RCX programs" function button is selected. What directory should we use?
      thanks - Lance


      1. Message by: North Shore Funky Robo Hobos 10/11/2004 08:06:39 GMT
        oops. Mea culpa. Question 1 was already answered in the FAQ... but some guidance on question 2 would be appreciated.


      2. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/12/2004 12:54:08 GMT
        To have items show up in this area, they must be converted into a library and have a pallete created for them. This isonly good for basic library functions that you are absolutely sure will not be changed. At that point the static sub-vi's can be glued together into a library and that library be placed in a special directory that will make it show up as a pallete. Not recommended.

        Use the "Select a VI" munu button instead.

        -Skye


Discussion: Robolab - Upload program from RCX to computer By: Pulverizing Penguins 2009 10/08/2004 16:18:33 GMT
Need to transfer a program from a computer without a removable drive to another computer. Can this be done by downloading the program to the RCX then uploading the program from the RCX to the other computer?

  1. Message by: Pulverizing Penguins 2009 10/07/2004 07:07:38 GMT
    I can't find uploading a program from the RCX to a computer. Can this be done?


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/07/2004 12:45:44 GMT
      It is not possible to extract a program from the RCX back into Robolab. It is possible to extract the byte code from the RCX, but converting this back into icons is simply not possible.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: AuroraEngineers116 10/07/2004 21:39:20 GMT
        The ability to upload from the RCX is one of the features of ROBOLAB 2.5.4. Use w/caution as it does not always get it right.


        1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/07/2004 21:48:52 GMT
          Really??? I never knew that. Could you provide instructions on how to do that?

          RoboManiacs
          Team #9
          www.robomaniacs.org


          1. Message by: AuroraEngineers116 10/07/2004 23:43:08 GMT
            Under the projects menu, select "Upload RCX code..." This is a feature in version 2.5.4 only.


            1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/08/2004 00:56:53 GMT
              ARGHHHHHH!!!!
              I should have ordered a copy during my last Pitsco order.
              Perhaps I should just get direct deposit?

              -Skye


              1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/08/2004 16:18:24 GMT
                Skye,

                You can leech off my account. :)

                RoboManiacs
                Team #9
                www.robomaniacs.org


    2. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/07/2004 14:55:17 GMT
      Does you computer have a SUB plug? There are those cute little plug in drives that are sub. The kids use them to take home their work from the school computers since the school computers have no external drives either. The sub drives are between $10 and 50 depending on size.

      Laura


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/07/2004 15:15:44 GMT
        I think you mean USB! Universal Serial Bus.
        USB solid state disks are nothing short of a miracle.
        -Skye


      2. Message by: Pulverizing Penguins 2009 10/07/2004 15:21:29 GMT
        It is one of Murphy laws - It takes someone else to see the simple answer. Excellent idea.


        1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/07/2004 17:51:44 GMT
          Yes USB the spell checker go me :-)


Discussion: Don't forget to download Firmware!!! By: Country Breakfast 10/28/2004 19:39:40 GMT
This should always be the first thing you do each year. If you're using a new RCX, be sure to download the Firmware. Otherwise, it will be impossible to program anything at all.

Good luck!

~Country Breakfast~
~DarkVoid924 and StarryGurl~

  1. Message by: explorers3776 10/28/2004 01:17:39 GMT
    The firmware will not download. We put the batteries in The RCX and put the transmitter 4 inches away, but it won't download. Can someone help us? This is our elementary school's first year. We are all new to this. We get to the point where it says, "Your RCX screen should look like this." Our screen does nothing


    1. Message by: Wildcats2263 10/28/2004 19:39:40 GMT
      Are you trying to download the firmware through the setup area? I'm pretty sure that is a tutorial, and doesn't actually load the firmware. It just walks you through the steps. From the main screen click Run Robolab and then click administrator. Try downloading the firmware here.
      If that's not it, test your tower connection. A green light should show in the center of the tower when it's trying to download.
      When you say your screen does nothing, are you getting anything at all or a blank gray screen when the power is turned on? Maybe bad batteries?
      4 inches is great if nothing is blocking the front of the RCX. If you've built an attachment over the download "eye" you may have to be closer or kind of angle the tower to the side.
      Good luck. Hope something works
      Monica


Discussion: Robolab simulation By: Alex Doner 01/27/2005 00:52:31 GMT
Robolab simulation - I am looking for a program that will allow you to write a programme in Robolab and then run the simulation to see what the robot "should" do. I am hoping this will save batteries and time downloading to the RCX.



  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/09/2004 15:33:29 GMT
    This is a noble goal, but one that is probably not possible. To do the job right, the software would have to model the kinematics of the robot. This would have to include mass, products of inertia, friction values, and a bunch of other parameters.

    I guess that it would be possible to provide a very simple robot model, but timing values, would all have to be changed for the real robot.

    Your best bet is to invest in recharagble batteries!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: SandersTigers203 01/27/2005 00:10:09 GMT
      How do you program different types of programs


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/27/2005 00:52:31 GMT
        Combine different icons in different orders.

        Perhaps you could be more specific in your question?

        -Skye


Discussion: RoboLab under an XP network By: fll-freak1328 11/04/2004 01:49:00 GMT
I am having problems with using RoboLab from a shared network drive under XP. I have one XP-Pro machine that exports a network drive. I have another XP-Home machine that picks up the drive. Each machine can see the program vault. Each machine can create files on the network drive. In the case of Word documents or other such files, each machine can open them. But when it comes to RoboLab .VI files, only the machine that created the file can read it!

Anybody found the problem and a workaround?

-Skye

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/11/2004 03:50:37 GMT
    Skye,

    In xp each user gets a file store location under c:\documents and settings\ where user files go. Is it possible the files are going in there? I'll test your issue tomorrow, we have xp networked also, but I didn't notice this problem.

    Can you see the vi's that come with Robolab and can't see the ones you make? or is it that you can't see any of them?

    Laura


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/11/2004 04:14:08 GMT
      I have learned more in the last few hours!

      The problem seems to only occur in one direction not both.

      I have two computers (actualy 5, but who is counting) one called Moe (XP-Pro) and one called Wave (XP-Home). Moe has a large capacity disk that I use for storing files we wish to share. It is this drive on Moe that holds the Program Vault.

      If I create a file on MOE and try to open it on WAVE, I get the following Robolab error:

      The file XXX.vi is not a VI. Select another?

      But if I copy this file over on a USB drive it will work fine! If I create the file on WAVE, it can be opend just fine on MOE.

      Under Explorer, I added the ownership field to the detailed file listing. It is different on the various computers. If the file was created under my XP-Pro machine its ownership is: MOE\Skye. That file's ownership from Wave's view point is blank!

      A file that was create on Wave is owned by MOE\Guest and on Moe it is also owned by Moe\Guest.

      Anybody know how to get both computers on the same sheet on music? Is this even the problem?

      -Skye


      1. Message by: SMART 1 11/04/2004 01:49:00 GMT
        Definitely sounds like an NTFS permissioning problem. One option to try would be to go to the main Robolab folder, security tab and set the permissions to Everyone - full control (I trust you have some sort of firewall between you and the internet!). If you get a message to apply those permissions to all subfolders, answer yes.

        Now if you are using a Share the Share has separate permissions (found on the Sharing tab in the folder properties). Set those to Everyone - full control as well.

        Can't guarantee that will work - permissions can be tricky.

        Another question - are these machines in a workgroup or domain?

        - Peter


Discussion: How to load more than 3 programs on RCX By: mustangs1003 11/15/2004 13:49:01 GMT
Hi,

I am a newbie as a coach and get the basic idea of programming. My students are asking how many programs you can load on the RCX. I know that you can load 3 different ones because Program 1 & 2 are locked so you use 3, 4, 5. How can we load more programs on it? Also, can anyone suggest a book to help me learn more about programming that is easy to use? I use the RoboLab proram. Many thanks!!!!

  1. Message by: warningchokinghazard320 10/22/2004 02:10:53 GMT
    go into the admin tool in robolabd and you can unlock slots 1 & 2 for a total of 5 program slots. beyond that, have you kids think of creative ways that they can make a program in slot 1, for example, do more than one thing. hint - what if your program begins with a conditional statement?

    Dave


    1. Message by: deafjam1980 11/15/2004 06:26:00 GMT
      well, my team tried changing it to where we can use program 1 but its still locked. how do we unlock it?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/15/2004 13:49:01 GMT
        The procedure for unlocking the RCX is in the UFAQ at http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

        -Skye


Discussion: Program externals - load parameters By: North Shore Funky Robo Hobos 10/22/2004 18:19:05 GMT
We are trying to reduce program overwrites by members of our team.
Is there a way to specify, either from within a robolab program itself or with some external file or parameter, the RCX program slot into which it is to load?

Discussion: Program externals - load parameters By: North Shore Funky Robo Hobos 01/13/2005 05:56:24 GMT
We are trying to reduce program overwrites by members of our team.
Is there a way to specify, either from within a robolab program itself or with some external file or parameter, the RCX program slot into which it is to load?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/23/2004 22:46:16 GMT
    No that I am aware of. If you (or anybody else) find a way to do this, it would be great news!

    We solve the problem at competition by a step by step check list they follow. One for loading software. One for checking over the robot. One for having all the right stuff when they go to the table. One for ...

    -Skye


    1. Message by: RoboQuest 12/08/2004 04:24:01 GMT
      Display the desired program slot on the RCX, then just hit the down load button. It will down load to whatever program slot you have displayed.

      -RoboQuest
      Team 115


    2. Message by: RoboPatriots1044 01/13/2005 03:54:14 GMT
      To prevent overwriting, use the direct mode of the RCX. To the left of the Start icon in your diagram insert and wire the following:
      1. Begin Direct Mode (found in the Direct Functions sub menu)
      2. Change Program in RCX (found in the RCX Communications sub menu)(wire in the program slot number here)
      3. End Direct Mode (found in the Direct Functions sub menu)
      I've attached a jpeg to illustrate.
      This method has been very reliable for us. Good luck!


      1. Message by: SMART 1 01/13/2005 05:40:39 GMT
        Wow, that's a neat trick. Definitely have to try that. Potentially a real life saver under competition conditions.

        Thanks for sharing.

        - Peter


      2. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/13/2005 05:56:24 GMT
        Now if only it was possible to initiate a download!

        -Skye


Discussion: Light Sensor By: smart461 10/26/2004 20:22:36 GMT
Can anybody help us with the light sensor? Is it posible to have the light sensor read and react to more than one color? Thanks-SMART team

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/25/2004 19:20:58 GMT
    Yes it is. The sensor can find any number of different values and react accordingly. If you have a more specific question, I'm sure someone here can help.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: smart461 10/25/2004 20:34:33 GMT
      Well, first of all thanks for responding! Heres what we want to do, we would like to write a program that will play different songs when a particular color is scaned. We have the music part all figured out and can have it play a song for white and a song for black, but now we would like to add one more color (and one more song). How can we do this, forks or what any suggestions?


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/25/2004 20:38:49 GMT
        Well, the first obvious question is: Why are you worried about playing songs???????

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


    2. Message by: smart461 10/25/2004 21:08:37 GMT
      It's part of our project.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/25/2004 21:16:14 GMT
        Ken gave a wonderful description of using "rose colored glasses". Someplace over the last few years, I have seen somebody who used the colored translucent bricks as filters. You could also reduce the red effect by placing the sensor in "unpowered sensor" mode available in Robolab. Using this mode, the red LED is turned off. You could then light the area with the white LEGO lamp. You would still hit the limitation that the sensor is more sensitive to some colors of light than others.

        I also know that the chapter on the light sensor in 'Building LEGO robots for FLL' is a must read.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 10/25/2004 21:21:12 GMT
          Here's a link for those that may have missed my message on "rose colored glasses" over in another discussion.

          --ken
          Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


        2. Message by: smart461 10/26/2004 16:16:42 GMT
          Wow! This is so cool that you guys are responding so quickly regarding this. I don't think we explained ourselves in regards to what it is were trying to do, and what we've done so far. We have been able to get different readings for different colors using colored bulletin board paper. The problems is we want the RCX to play a different song when the sensors is swiped over various colors. We start the sensor out on green paper with a sensor reading of 37. When we go over white we get 44, black 22, and blue 35. We can get it to play nothing on green, but when it hits white plays one song, black a different song. We want to add a third color and song. Any suggestions?


          1. Message by: LaSalle278.280 10/26/2004 17:23:10 GMT
            It sounds like you are talking about what structure in the program to use to determine which song to play based on which reading you get. You can use multiple forks for this. You can either read the light sensor at each fork or you can read the light sensor into a container and then use a fork based on the container value. You could also set up events for each transition. There are many ways to program this and you need to experiment around.

            Dave Kolberg
            Coach 278 & 280


    3. Message by: smart461 10/26/2004 19:21:00 GMT
      Cool! It's starting to sound like you know what were talking about now. We use a task split right now and then use the wait for light icon (with a variable of 45) on the top task, and wait for dark icon (with a variable of 25) on the bottom. Because the green paper value is 37 this works nice, but the problem is if we add another color somewhere in between it will play the song for either that color, or the color that is greater, or less than, also. I guess is what were asking is, is there any way to set a range like sound this if the light reading is between such and such, do you understand our delema. I'm sure there is a way to do this, but our knowledge of containers and forks is very limited. If anybody can help us we would greatly appriciate it, even if it's for a good resource where we can find out more about forks, containers, and task splits. We have tried many different ways but have yet to find success with adding a third color.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/26/2004 20:22:36 GMT
        It sounds like you are trying to make a grocery store laser scanner but using color rather than bar codes. In the case of a bar code scanner, it is constantly scanning the world. Only when it finds a valid bar code (the right number of bars and a valid checksum) does it send the code to the cash register. All its other scans are just discarded.

        Since you do not have a checksum, when should the RCX look at the light sensor to determine the color? As soon as it finishes the last song? What if the wand is not against a new color then? Perhaps you can add a touch sensor to the end of the wand?

        Perhaps each 'ticket' could have a black stripe to trigger the song? This is harder, since you have to get the RCX to do "Play the song coresponding to the last color you saw prior to having just seen the black trigger"!

        -Skye


    4. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/26/2004 19:31:16 GMT
      You might want to find the sensor forks for this. Hint, you can stack more than 1 fork together in your program.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


Discussion: Light Sensor By: smart461 11/30/2004 23:14:55 GMT
Can anybody help us with the light sensor? Is it posible to have the light sensor read and react to more than two colors? Thanks-SMART team

  1. Message by: marist 11/30/2004 23:14:55 GMT
    sure it is. just use the View button on the RCX and look what light level are the different colors.


Discussion: Light Sensor By: smart461 10/25/2004 19:22:44 GMT
Can anybody help us with the light sensor? Is it posible to have the light sensor read and react to more than two colors? Thanks-SMART team

  1. Message by: smart461 10/25/2004 19:22:44 GMT
    Can anybody help with programing the light sensor using robolab? Is it posible to have the light sensor react to more than two colors? Thanks SMART461


Discussion: Robolab/RCX program code size and limits. By: RTH1361 12/29/2004 21:43:17 GMT
Hi,

(I asked this question on lugnet... but got no answer there, maybe this isn't an issue typically run into by FLL teams?).

I'm using Robolab 2.5.3 and RCX firmware revision 03.01 03.28.
I have a couple of questions:

- I want to demonstrate the difference in code size between a program written
using subroutines versus a program written using subVi's.
How do I determine code size of a downloaded program?

- How can I tell how much space is left in one of the 5 RCX program slots after
a program has been download into it?

- Is there a limit to the size of a RoboLab program?

- Does running a large program in one of the RCX slots take away available
memory from another RCX program slot? (or is each of the 5 slots fixed in size?)

Thank you,
Jake

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/28/2004 21:17:04 GMT
    Jake,

    There is a way to get a memory map but not with Robolab or RIS. You will need to look into the graphical interface to NQC. Can't remember its name off hand.

    The total memory is dynamicaly allocated to each slot. Over time, the memory will become fragmented. You can use the interrogation feature to purge datalog and program slot memory to get a fresh start without pulling a battery.

    Yes there is a limit to program size. In fact we hit it last night. We were forced to find the few sub-vis that are real pigs, are re-code them as subroutines. Now we fit back in the RCX.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: RTH1361 10/29/2004 20:17:09 GMT
      Hi Skye,

      - I did find the memory map icon memmap.vi under the "direct mode" functions. This is supposed to "give back the memory allotment within the RCX" and "The memory map icon gives you a reading of the memory contents of the RCX. It MUST be used in direct mode and outputted to the front panel". This sounds like it might be useful, but I don't really understand what this means or implies. A Robolab sample wasn't available. There wasn't much info on what one would see in the display.

      - The "interrogation" feature you refer to... to purge datalog and program memory is a Robolab or NQC function?
      (or are you talking about the RoboLab Direct mode memorymap icon/vi?)

      - So as I understand it, the amount of memory used by each slot is dynamic and not fixed (but you still hit a limit?). And there are functions for cleanup and recovery of fragmented memory... via an "interrogation feature"?

      - I think you also said that there is a limit to program size. But that limit is allocated/shared from a global/general pool.

      I'm curious, how did you determine that you'd run out of RCX memory? via a failed program download? What indication will I have that I've reached this limit?

      Thanks again,
      Jake


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/29/2004 20:52:28 GMT
        Jake,
        Funny you should ask. I purchased a copy of the book "Enginnering with LEGO bricks and RoboLab" by Eric Wang. It arrived in the mail last night. I was skimming it, when I saw the section on direct mode and (drum roll please) the memory map icon. I started to play with it but ran out of time. My first try resulted in the PC unable to talk to the RCX. Not sure what was going on, but I was exausted and could hardly keep my eyes open. Will have to play with this more later.

        The Interrogation mode is available from the menu bar at the top of the window. Do not remember the exact item, but perhaps under tools. When selected, it pops up a dialog box that allows you to interact with the RCX via the tower. You can purge memory, read and set containers (VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY handy), and other stuff.

        The RCX only had a finite amount of memory. A good chunk of that is used by the firmware. The rest must be shared by the 5 programs. Since allocation is dynamic, you can have one huge program at the expense of running out of space for the other slots. It is also possible to fragment memory such that you have enough memory for your program but not in one contiguous block needed to download it. That is when purging programs is a life saver.

        You will be told in no uncertain language when you hit the limit. A nasty little dialog box will pop up and tell you you have run out of memory. After you have dried the tears away, you should first defragment and see if the problem goes away. If not, use the "Select Com port" to set the output to TEXT. Now download your program and the assembler results go to a dialog box that you can save then print. Fill your coffee mug, and start to go over the results looking for candidates that you could change from a sub-vi to a true subroutine.

        Hope I answered your questions. If not, shout back.

        -Skye


    2. Message by: Robotoads78 12/28/2004 22:29:35 GMT
      Don't Sub.vi take less memory than subroutines? We are out of memory again. We had previously solved this by making sub.vi (external subroutines) out of redundant code. We see that Skye Sweeney AND the unoffical FAQ recommend local subroutines over external subroutines (sub.vi) because local subroutines are supposedly only loaded once. Making local subroutines is making our programs bigger plus they still won't load. Please explain.... Thanks. -Robotoads


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/29/2004 21:43:17 GMT
        Simply changing your code to use sub-vis will not change the size of the program. A sub-vi is nothing more than a nice way to write shorthand. Why it worked after converting to sub-vis is an interesting question. I will hazard a guess that you also removed the batteries and had to reload all the programs from scratch. This would have re-organized the memory to allow you to load all your programs.

        A true subroutine on the other hand will reduce your code size. This is a two stage process. The first is to define your subroutine and give it a unique number. The second is to call the subroutine (by number) when you want to use it. Just remember that a subroutine cannot call another subroutine.

        -Skye


Discussion: Nesting Forks By: BeachBots337 11/01/2004 22:59:01 GMT
How does one have a fork within a fork without getting programming errors?

Thanks,

Ming

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/01/2004 21:30:12 GMT
    Good question!

    You must open and close the forks in a certain order. The last fork opened must be the first fork closed. In ascii art:

    -----<----------<----------->---------->-------
    |..........|.........|..........|
    |..........|.........|..........|
    |..........+---------+..........|
    |...............................|
    +-------------------------------+

    The < and > are fork opens and closes. Ignore the dots, they were needed to keep the picture lined up.

    GRRRR!!! This ASCII art will not reproduce in the forum. To look at it, cut the text and past it into NotePad or other editor that uses a fix width font!

    Hope this helps!

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/01/2004 22:37:43 GMT
      Repost of ASCII art:


      -----<----------<----------->---------->-------
      | | | |
      | | | |
      | +---------+ |
      | |
      +-------------------------------+


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/01/2004 22:58:39 GMT
        GRRRR!!!!

        How did you fix that Ken?????? I tried a bunch of HTML keywords and nothing worked!

        PS: Thanks!

        -Skye


Discussion: Investigator By: SMART 1 11/02/2004 17:19:31 GMT
I know this has come up before. Wanted to see if anyone has more to contribute to the discussion on using Robolab Investigator.

  1. Message by: SMART 1 11/02/2004 17:16:59 GMT
    I've been experimenting with Investigator in the hopes of showing the kids how to understand the patterns that occur as the robot uses certain types of sensor data. Have had some success, but some things still seem outside my grasp.

    Here's what I've gotten to work.
  2. I've managed to get the RCX to acquire data from two sensor ports at one time (Rotation and Light), and collect data approximately every tenth of a second. This was interesting and useful.

    Here's what I have not gotten to work...
  3. Collecting more than two "sensors" worth of data. For example it might be useful to collect the data from three or four containers in addition to sensor data where the containers are used for program flow and state checking
  4. Running Investigator programs in direct mode. This is the most frustrating. The documentation suggests that this would allow more polling and data to be collected (essentially to get around the limit of 2000 data points that the RCX can hold), but every time I substitute the direct mode start and stop commands the program downloads and I promptly get a communication error. I'm wondering if there is a problem with the communication from the RCX back to the computer (the RCX is definitely in range and clear line of site to the tower). However, the Interrogate RCX definitely works so this doesn't really make sense. Wondering if there is some magic bullet I'm missing here.
  5. Also struggling a lot with the compute tools and other advanced features, but these can wait (can always dump the data to Excel if needed).

    Regards,

    Peter


Discussion: Engineering With LEGO Bricks and RoboLab By: fll-freak1328 12/18/2004 19:30:57 GMT
Recently I came across a book on LEGO robotics I do not own. I placed an order and promptly received my copy. What I got was a wonderful addition to my collection of robot books. Dr. Eric Wang has written in 4 chapters and about 100 pages a great intermediate to advanced description of Robolab with dozens of fun "mini-challenges".

Not all the challenges are directly useful to FLL, but all will challenge an intermediate and advanced team during the off season. Some of the challenges are to make a music instrument, read a bar code, determine the length of a string without measuring it, following a flashlight, and a tug-of-war competition.

The book was written as the text for a college level class. It is not a "Dummies Guide". Some of the concepts in the book will be beyond the scope of 9-14 year olds and may be over the head of some of us old grumpy coaches. But the book is filled with examples and ideas.

The book is rather expensive. It was around $40 from College House Enterprises. They can be reached at:
http://www.collegehousebooks.com/lego_bricks.htm

PS: I am not affiliated with the book in any way. This is simply a personal review of a resource that is probably not well known.

-Skye

  1. Message by: SMART 1 11/02/2004 19:29:08 GMT
    It is a most excellent book. I'm waiting for the next version so they can explain all the Investigator stuff.

    Highly recommended!

    Wish they'd made it easier to buy though. There are so many books on Mindstorms out there surely they could have made it available on Amazon, etc. and made a good profit.

    - Peter


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/02/2004 19:50:28 GMT
      Pitsco also sells this book. We have a couple of copies for the kids.

      Laura


    2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/02/2004 20:13:15 GMT
      The book is also available through Pitsco (Lego Educational Division.) See this link: Engineering with LEGO Bricks and ROBOLAB.

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: SMART 1 11/02/2004 21:29:57 GMT
        That's interesting. The college house website shows it for $32, while the Pitsco shows it for $40. Just an FYI for the consumer.


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/02/2004 21:36:33 GMT
          College house sends you a copy FedEx and bills you later. Unless you catch them during a school break, they appear to send the same day.

          Pitso (on the other hand) send UPS and normaly sits on your order for 5 days before shipping.

          -Skye


    3. Message by: fvlego1675 11/19/2004 21:09:12 GMT
      I have an extra copy of this book (accidental order 8-) ) that I would be willing to trade for one of the other Mindstorms books or even Technic/Mindstorms parts.

      Send me an email if you want to trade, corylego@campcox.com

      -Cory


    4. Message by: FreedomEngineers1678 12/18/2004 19:30:57 GMT
      thanks for the info. A copy arrived in the mail yesterday. Some fun rading for the off-season.

      Lloyd


Discussion: Communication problem By: epes_challengers 11/22/2004 18:13:14 GMT
When I go through the setup routine it polls my com ports but never finds my USB port. It hangs on com 4 and I have to ctrl-alt-del to get out. I'm using a brand new notebook PC computer with three USB2 ports and version 2.5 of the Robolabs software.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/07/2004 03:28:57 GMT
    Please read this thread! You probably have the same problem I had.

    http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?230@@.ee96f0b

    -Skye


    1. Message by: epes_challengers 11/07/2004 03:33:52 GMT
      Not exactly. I can't seem to get as far as you did. BTW, I'm using XP Pro.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/07/2004 04:21:45 GMT
        Have you installed the patches to get to 2.5.2?

        -Skye


    2. Message by: Marist War Eagles 3433 11/08/2004 17:40:51 GMT
      Make sure you are using the correct driver for the USB tower.


    3. Message by: LegoManiacs2004 11/15/2004 23:41:50 GMT
      I am using Robolab 2.5.1 on a Dell PC running Windows 2000. When I have a need to reload the firmware, it is like pulling teeth to get the job done. It appears that the USB port is timing out. It may take 8 or 10 tries to finish the job. Any thoughts?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/15/2004 23:45:05 GMT
        Are you doing the programming in a "garage"? Ambient lights, especialy lights that flicker, can be a killer. If this is not the problem, there are some tuneable paramters for the tower device driver. Go to the Control Panel and then the Tower icon. Record the current values and then make some calculated guesses as to what to play with.

        -Skye


    4. Message by: LegoManiacs2004 11/15/2004 23:48:36 GMT
      As always Skye, thanks for you quick answer. I couldn't see the forest for the trees. I actually resorted one time to turning the lights out in the room and leaving while the firmware download was in progress.

      I will note that I have on occasion used the same pc with a serial tower. It always works but is sooooooo slow.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/15/2004 23:53:39 GMT
        I have noticed the same speed decrease with a serial tower. I am at a loss as to why. I can't imagine that the data rate between the tower and the RCX is much faster than the 9600 baud the serial tower is set for. Why the USB tower is faster is perhaps that the IR LED is stronger and less errors happen? Yet another item I would love to experiment with and do not have time for. :(

        -Skye


    5. Message by: epes_challengers 11/16/2004 03:59:44 GMT
      Thanks. I have what I think is the latest driver. In any case, I started using RIS and will be sticking with it.

      Glenn


    6. Message by: CSI4328 11/22/2004 18:06:14 GMT
      We are building the walking robot. We can run the gears and motors but the claw that we have made will not pinch or move. How can it move when it is hooked up right but still wont do anything?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/22/2004 18:13:14 GMT
        What is it not doing? Is the motor running at all? If the
        motor is running, can you turn the gears by hand to make the claw work? If you can, how much effort does it take to work the claw? More or less than the motor can supply?

        -Skye


Discussion: Auto program number advance By: fll-freak1328 11/22/2004 17:15:01 GMT
Is it possible to change the program slot at the end of a program and not have the new program start automaticaly?

From reading the LASM SDK it would appear that if the program change command is part of a program (and not sent via IR tower or button press) that the new program is selected and started. Has anybody found a workaround?

We should love not to have to advance the program slot!

-Skye

  1. Message by: See-More 1298 11/17/2004 20:05:15 GMT
    oh oh oh --- if you find the answer please share it! One of my teams has designed a robot that makes finding and using that particular button quite tricky!

    marie


    1. Message by: SMART 1 11/17/2004 20:16:24 GMT
      Ooh,

      That presents some very interesting possibilities. And since you were so nice to share it...

      How about using a sensor mechanism to start the robot?

      Wait for ...

      The program would then be running the next program, but waiting for you to tell it "go".


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/17/2004 20:30:18 GMT
        Yes we had considered that option. Each program would start with a wait for press on a touch sensor. Our issue is that the "action" button is to easy to hit! We had hoped to change program numbers automaticaly, but still need a green button press (in a nicely protected area) to run.

        We need to buy back about 20 seconds to go for a perfect score. We are looking for any place to shave some time! Of course, it might be better to go for realiability!

        -Skye


    2. Message by: See-More 1298 11/21/2004 22:37:11 GMT
      I do believe I may have found a solution for you Skye! (A first!!)

      I'm assuming you know where to find the "go to program slot x" icon.
      The beginning of the new program slot then needs a fork - to stop completely or to run its actual programmed mission - based, of course, on a condition such as a touch sensor. It works quite nicely!

      Marie
      who must now confess that she posed the problem to her advanced team (with the silly name of Fuzzy Monkeys Insights) who managed to solve it rather quickly with the help of their college student mentor while she stood by with a confused expression on her face


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/22/2004 02:27:33 GMT
        Your team has my thanks. We have implemented this idea with a minor twist. It will save us a few seconds as well as minimizing the potential error of forgetting to advance the program slot in the heat of battle.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: See-More 1298 11/22/2004 17:15:01 GMT
          Actually, my team owes you the thanks! Your questioned intrigued them enough to do the digging to find the required code icon and really got their creative juices flowing. They are now working on the idea of simply putting in a pause at the start of each program slot and eliminating the need to ever push the run button which is becoming more and more inaccessible as they tweak their bot. And I keep perfecting the coaching technique of "really? how? why? what else? show me!"

          Marie


Discussion: Loading 8 programs onto 5 slots By: kelleyro2489 11/28/2004 23:05:24 GMT
Hi. I need help. How do we take 8 programs and load them onto 5 slots? Please help.

  1. Message by: clippers2587 11/21/2004 17:56:53 GMT
    Hi
    This is Bob Bergquist. I am the coach for the Norwell clippers. I would like to know how to load more programs as well when you find out please let me know.


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/21/2004 20:33:31 GMT
      It is NOT possible to put more than 5 programs into the RCX. What is possible is to create a program that performs more than one mission. Under some circumstances the program does one mission under other circumstances the program does something else.

      Think about this for a while. If you are still stumped, SWITCH gears and think CONDITIONALY.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: tigbots 11/22/2004 01:13:52 GMT
      Skye, Are you talking about setting up two programs per slot or another program continuing on from the first? Coach Call


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/22/2004 02:20:11 GMT
        Under this discussion it was asked how to load more than 5 programs into an RCX. As I said it is not possible to have more than five programs, but it is possible for your five programs to accomplish more than 5 distinct missions.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: warningchokinghazard320 11/22/2004 20:00:10 GMT
          like Skye said... *IF* you want to run more than 1 mission per program slot *THEN* you might need to think creatively *ELSE* you won't be able to figure it out. :)


        2. Message by: kelleyro2489 11/28/2004 22:35:54 GMT
          Hi. I understand that we need to take our 8 seperate programs and combine three of them. We were going to use a "wait for touch" to seprate programs but someone told me that we cannot use a touch sensor in that way. We would be disqualified. Is that true?


          1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/28/2004 23:05:24 GMT
            In past years that would have been true. (Prior to this year, it was necessary to start each mission by pressing the "Run" button as the last contact with the robot.) However, this year, the robot may be "started" with a touch sensor. The only "gotcha" is that the robot must be in a valid starting position (fully in the base) when it is last touched by the operator.

            --ken
            Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Robolab Forks By: swat965 12/02/2004 04:54:17 GMT
Tonight we added a touch sensor fork to the front end of a program that had been working flawlessly. Now when we download the program to the RCX, the download aborts, and the robot starts to run! Could this be because we didn*t rejoin the fork at the back end of the program? (If that*s the case, I*m surprised we were allowed to start downloading in the first place * that we had a *white arrow* when we started downloading.)

  1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 12/01/2004 07:07:48 GMT
    Swat965: Yes, it is necessary to "reconnect" the separate paths from the forks with a "merge" somewhere further down the sequence before the end of the program.

    I'm not sure why you were able to begin downloading in the first place, but I've seen similar behavior before. I think this may be some sort of "debugging" mode, but I'm not sure. Hopefully a Robolab power user (Skye?) can chime in on this one...

    --ken
    Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/01/2004 13:49:42 GMT
      RoboLab is an application written using LabView. As a result, there are a few minor strange behaviours!

      From what I have learned of RoboLab, the compile is done in two stages. The White Arrow is broken ONLY if required inputs and outputs of icons are not connected or connected illegaly. This is an intrinsic function of LabView.

      The second stage of the compile happens when you hit the white arrow. At this point the LabView/RoboLab program is executed and the assembler code created. It is at this point that LabView can figure out if your RoboLab program is legal. Only when the program gets to a Red Light does the assembler code actualy get downloaded to the RCX.

      -Skye


    2. Message by: swat965 12/02/2004 04:54:17 GMT
      Hi Ken and Skye,
      Yes, adding the merge was the trick. Thanks! The Program works great now.

      Skye, what you said about the way Robolab processes a program makes sense as well. We are a first year team, (seven 4th and 5th graders, one 6th grader) but the kids are picking up Robolab really well. The software "decision matrix" for choosing which to use, makes it sound like Robolab is really hard to pick up. But I wanted to use it because coming from Nat'l INstruments, it's the real deal.

      Anyway, thanks for your help, and good luck in your tournaments.

      John Greer
      Coach (rookie)


Discussion: Sub vi library By: See-More 1298 02/04/2005 03:37:47 GMT
New question from one of my teams, The Fuzzy Monkeys Insights:

One of the guys read the interview with Ken and somewhere it was mentioned about the idea of creating a sub vi library. They want to know is there a special trick or set of steps to saving a sub vi once created? Or is it simply a matter of creating the sub vi and saving the program, then copying and pasting as needed?

Thanks!!!

Marie

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/19/2004 00:32:55 GMT
    Making and using sub-vis are two different things.

    When making a sub-vi, you use the selection tool to highlight the icons you wish to convert. You then select the "make sub-vi" icon from the edit menu. Poof you have converted all the selected code into one icon. Double click on that icon and save it to your normal location.

    When wanting to inser a a sub-vi, use the "cartoon talking bubble" from the Functions menu. Navigate to the sub-vi and select it. Poof, it is now in your program to connected up like a normal icon.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: See-More 1298 02/04/2005 02:48:11 GMT
      Ok - We're missing a poof somewhere! Remember now, I'm on a mac therefore my teams are now mac friends......

      They wrote a program.
      They highlighted and created a sub vi.
      New program: they can't find it to insert it.
      We can't find a functions menu or cartoon talking bubble.

      Next hint?

      Marie
      eagerly looking forward to March 6 - a day for rest!!!!


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/04/2005 03:37:47 GMT
        Lets try this one step at a time!

        1) Have you considered WinDoze? (grin)

        2) Does the MAc version not have some kind of toolbar or pallete that has some of the basic icons like red/green lights, motor controls, and some buttons/icons that open up other toolbar/window/pallete things?

        3) If you do, one of those buttons might be called "select a Vi". In Windoze, it looks like a cartoon bubble. No idea what it might look like on a Mac!

        4) When you created the sub-vi, did you get a replacement icon with a generic graphic? Where you able to double click it (inset Mac equivalent (ME)) and pop up the guts of the sub-vi? If so, you should use your ME version of Save As...

        So, back to you!
        -Skye


Discussion: Clearing Memory By: Nerds 868 02/09/2005 19:48:05 GMT
How do you erase all of the programs on the RCX other than removing the batteries, waiting a couple minutes, and reloading firmware, etc. We are using RoboLab version 2.5

When we go to download our programs, we are told that the RCX has ran out of memory and are asked if we can to clear the program slot. We have tried this, but it doesn't work. Is there perhaps fragmented memory? Does removing batteries get rid of the fragmented memory?

Thanks

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/16/2005 04:55:56 GMT
    In Robolab select under the Project menu item "Interogate the RCX..."

    Select program slot 1 on the RCX. Now click on the delete all tasks check box. Now repeat for all program slots. Finaly click on the Clear Data Buffer button and you should have a clean RCX.

    If you still can't get your last program to install, then you are over the limit and will need to put your code on a diet. One way is to research true subroutines and not just sub-vis.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Martian Exchange Students 16 02/07/2005 07:29:16 GMT
      Another way to clear memory (1 slot at a time) is to make a vi that uses Begin Direct Mode, then deletes all tasks (using Delete Task function), deletes subroutines 0 through 7 (using Delete Subroutine function repeatedly), displays memory allocation (using Memory Map function) and then uses End Direct Mode. When run, it will clear any program slot, and then show used & remaining memory. It's handy for verifying and tracking memory usage. By using this tool with tiny sample programs that can be added to or changed, it is possible to figure out the memory requirements of each of the functions. Once that is known, programs can be optimized to help fit everything into the RCX.

      John


      1. Message by: SMART 1 02/09/2005 19:19:33 GMT
        That's really interesting. Pretty cool way to help the kids understand how their programs use memory!

        I do have a question though. How often have you found this necessary?

        Are there particular constructs that have been the most problematic?

        Thanks,

        Peter


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 02/09/2005 19:41:17 GMT
          The fragmentation occurs when reloading programs of different sizes. It has nothing to do with what is inside the program. Load 5 tiny programs then reload slot 1 with a bigger program. Now the space for the old slot 1 is not enough for the new program and that memory becomes orphaned. Do that enough, and you can't even reload the original 5 programs that did fit!

          We ignore the problem till we see it during the regular season. When the tournaments come, we yank a battery, reload firmware and our software. If we need to reload a program slot and we have the time, we flush all memory and load them all.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: SMART 1 02/09/2005 19:48:05 GMT
            I suspect we've been doing it the "load new firmware" way unintentionally ;-)

            Had one RCX this year that if you looked at it crosswise it would lose the programs.

            Anyway, thanks for the insight.

            - Peter


Discussion: Robolab Books By: thunderbolts11 01/24/2005 18:27:48 GMT
I noticed in the new Pitsco catalog there is a new Robolab book. Does anyone have it yet? I ordered the first edition and was disappointed that it was only the first 4 chapters.

Laura

Here is the description from Pitsco
Engineering with LEGO Bricks and ROBOLAB
This revised and expanded 2nd edition is the ultimate guide to LEGO Education*s ROBOLAB software. New features like advanced tasks and containers, the Vision Center, and LASM are included in this edition. The book includes introductions to the RCX Programmable Brick, the *brain* of your robotics creations, as well as a variety of other hardware options available from LEGO Education. The book includes robot building tips and introductions to various robot components: sensors, wheels, gears, grippers, and more! The book is full of design challenges of increasing difficulty, each of which defines a specific task that must be completed. Your students can stretch their creative legs, as none of the challenges have a single solution.

  1. Message by: roboticraptors1620 01/24/2005 16:36:51 GMT
    I liked it a lot. I ordered it before this year, and am now using it for off season (for us!) programmers meetings. I would be interested in chatting via email with other coaches who are working through the book.


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/24/2005 17:17:21 GMT
      It is a great book even if it is only the first part of a work in progress. I can't wait for the update to come out. It should be said that some of the information in the book is beyound the scope of early elementary students and many middle school kids. But there is enough fun stuff to keep adults and kids happy.

      My earlier review of the book can be found here:
      FreedomEngineers1678 "Engineering With LEGO Bricks and RoboLab" 12/18/04 6:30pm

      -Skye


    2. Message by: thunderbolts11 01/24/2005 18:05:28 GMT
      Skye, the new book is out. I figured you would have it by now and could tell me about it. Its 394 pages, very sizable. Maybe I'll just order it.

      Laura


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/24/2005 18:27:48 GMT
        GRRRR! I only took delivery of the old version a month ago!
        I guess I have something to add to my birthday wish list (besides a whole bunch of movie making gear).

        -Skye


Discussion: Can we share some proramming examples? By: roboticraptors1620 01/24/2005 17:13:47 GMT
I am curious as to how people programmed various challenges. It is easy to see the building aspect of how people approached the challenges, but harder to see how they were programmed.
I know the International Challenge is not yet complete, so it might not be kosher to ask.

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 01/24/2005 17:13:47 GMT
    First week of the challenge, the team brainstormed general approaches to the missions and mission order/strategy.

    I had five kids on the team, so after the first week we picked the top five missions we wanted to attack. Each kid then took ownership of one mission. They then started to build their attachements and prototyping their missions. As time progressed, we learned what would work and what would not. We then re-strategized the missions and came up with combinations that would work. Each kid then took ownership of a sequence of missions that would fit into one slot.

    At this point they started to naturaly work in floating groups. They find it much easier to work with a partner to catch mistakes and to figure out why things do not work. I had three computers available and it worked out well. Some would be building attachements and others would be programming. We had two "identical" robots that they would alternate with.

    In previous years, the team had written a huge library of sub-vis. To the point that the only stock icons we use at the mission level are the red and green lights. We have icons for forward N tick, forward till touch, forward till black line, forward till white, forward for n seconds, the same in reverse, turns of every type and direction, arm control icons, and lots of other goodies. Writing complex programs is just a matter of connecting up a few upper level icons and adjusting magic numbers.

    -Skye


Discussion: Robolab -> LASM By: DarkMatter1187 02/11/2005 21:17:09 GMT
Can anyone tell me how to intercept, retrieve or otherwise capture a listing of LASM or RCX bytecode output that is downloaded to the RCX from a Robolab program? I know about the pseudo-script listing you can obtain by select "text" rather than a USB or COM port for the tower, but that isn't what I want to see. I want to know what the LASM statements or bytecode values are for a Robolab program I've written.

Thanks!
Dave

  1. Message by: SMART 1 02/11/2005 21:17:09 GMT
    Unfortunately no.

    Perhaps this link will help you?

    http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/

    Didn't help me too much. My programming background is in much higher level languages so I only understood some of what is on this page. Perhaps you'll find something there that will get you to the next step (or perhaps the author can help you).

    Regards,

    Peter


Discussion: Robolab 2.5.2 By: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 03/04/2005 20:41:41 GMT
I am haveing trouble trying to run the training missions for robolab. I think I know what I may need to do, but....
When I try to load the programs to the rcx, when doing the training missions, I get an error about Micromedia projector haveing an error, and has to shut down. When I get this error, it also shuts down robolab. But if I send the program under robolab programmer, it (robolab) continues to run ok.
Any ideas??

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 03/02/2005 16:09:05 GMT
    Never heard of this problem. If you find a solution, please reply so that it can be included in the UFAQ.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 03/03/2005 18:42:15 GMT
      Here goes what all happened, a victim of my own lack of thinking at times.

      Don't laugh too hard Skye....

      Ok, I loaded Robolab 2.5.2, and I am useing a Laptop Dell, all UBS, with Windows XP pro. I had some trouble with the tower, not a big deal. But then I tried to do the Training missions. Well it gave me an error. It was looking for GhostAPI.dll.

      Well..... I went to the Tufts web site and downloaded a few things, in a big hurry at work, and not investigateing the web site better. Well I got home thinking,, the patch from the site would work. So I installed the patch 12 or what ever number it might be. Well the I started getting the Macromedia error.

      I tried to uninstall Robolab ( more than once, and still not thinking , then reinstall. Still I got the same answer. So the next day, I got to work got on the Tuft site and found my answer.

      http://www.ceeo.tufts.edu/robolabatceeo/activekb/Default.asp?ToDo=view&questId=118&catId=4

      That page explains what I should have done. So, sort of using my head this time. I looked in the C: directory, and after uninstalling Robolab yet again. I deleted everything left in thet directory, reinstalled Robolab 2.5.2 and made the nessesary changes, which is copying a few files from one diectory to another, and lo and behold, I was able to do a some training missions last night.

      Now why would I tell all the dumb things i did with getting Robolab running,,, So no one else goes through the caos I went through in the past 3 days,,

      Have fun and a good chuckle I did after I got it running right.
      Alford Stewart


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 03/04/2005 15:26:04 GMT
        No chuckling from me. It not like we all should know that those files need to be in multiple directories to work!

        Glad you found the problem.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 03/04/2005 18:10:49 GMT
          Me too, now time to learn Robolab. So we can use it next year.


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 03/04/2005 19:35:49 GMT
            I think you will like Robolab. It is not quite as intuitive as RIS, but it is still very visual. The ability to create subVis that work (unlike the crazy MyBlocks) makes code development much much easier. My team's top level diagram only includes two stock icons (the red and green lights). All the others are subVis that do things like "turn left 90 degrees", "follow line for N ticks", or "Drive till bumper press". Our most complex mission had 30 of these top level icons. Expand these to the stock icons and the program was several hundred instructions long.

            -Skye


            1. Message by: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 03/04/2005 20:41:41 GMT
              I am going to have the boys learn it. Then we will demonstrate no limits, useing two sub teams, each with a robot, at Appleknocker. It is a eduactional fair. It ussually is in August. Hopefully it will go without a hitch like last years, Mission Mars. Then onward with Ocean Odessy. Or however you spell it. It's friday. LOL.


Discussion: Leaning Robolab By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 03/29/2005 19:15:16 GMT
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone has any good websites out there on robolab? I am looking for simple ones I can use to teach my kids robolab and also more complex ones for myself (I have my BS in Computer Science so something more designed for a programmer would be great). Thanks a ton! Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 03/29/2005 19:15:16 GMT
    Carla,

    Carnegie Mellon has a great Robolab tutorial program. You can see it here: Carnegie Mellon Robotics Academy

    It is not expensive and is very comprehensive.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9



Folder: Robotic Invention System (RIS) Questions 11/23/2004 19:37:40 GMT



Folder: Sharing Myblocks between program slots 11/23/2004 13:51:03 GMT
Is it possible to share Myblocks between program slots or generate library that can be shared among all 5 program slots? I think I'm running up against the total block-count in a program error. If library is not possible, are there any other way to saving memories (or total number of block count)?

Thanks in advance

RobotMasters

Discussion: Sharing MyBlocks By: fll-freak1328 11/23/2004 13:51:03 GMT
At the lowest level, the RCX does not allow code to be shared between slots. This is unfortunate as it would greatly ease program size problems.

It is my understanding (I am a RoboLab user) that even if the RCX could handle the sharing, the RIS might not. It seems that RIS itself will decide on a case by case basis what MyBlocks get implemented as subroutines or inline functions.

-Skye

Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: fll-freak1328 10/21/2004 00:03:55 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ before posting your
questions. The FAQ is the result of condensing the posting from
the previous two seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions
have likely already been answered. The FAQ has been updated for this
year's rule changes.

The FAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the FAQ at:

http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

Skye Sweeney
Skye@fll-freak.com

  1. Message by: robobulldogs301 10/20/2004 23:52:15 GMT
    can we use bionical parts?


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/21/2004 00:03:55 GMT
      Perhaps you should read the UFAQ at http://www.fll-freak.com/faq!

      -Skye


Discussion: programs 1 and 2 By: ManateeMindstormers4203 10/21/2004 06:56:04 GMT
We need help. We try to set a certain program to program 1 but is sais that slot 1 is locked. It is the same with slot 2. if you know what we are doing wrong please contact us

  1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/14/2004 19:42:27 GMT
    If you go to the administrative option when the RIS program starts up, you will see an area where you can unlock those program slots.

    RoboManiacs
    Team #9
    www.robomaniacs.org


    1. Message by: ManateeMindstormers4203 10/14/2004 20:07:23 GMT
      Where on administrator?


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/14/2004 20:33:58 GMT
        1. Open the Program
        2. Login
        3. Click on settings
        4. Click on advanced
        5. On "Lock program slots," take the X out of any box it appears in

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


    2. Message by: Wildcats2263 10/16/2004 17:05:34 GMT
      You also might need to activate your rotation sensor while you're there!
      Monica


    3. Message by: chargers2465 10/19/2004 23:58:16 GMT
      where can i find any info for rotation sensor?our robot was used and there is no info for it.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 10/20/2004 01:04:45 GMT
        Try doing a search on the web. Other ideas are to get one or more of the Mindstorms books you can find at a good bookstore. The other great source in the www.hightechkids.org web site.

        -Skye


    4. Message by: Flashes271 10/21/2004 06:56:04 GMT
      If you go to advanced on the program it will give you the option of unlocking number 1. I don't have the program in front of me but I am pretty sure that once you log on to RIS you can have the choice of doing an advanced search. I will check on my computer tomorrow and get back to you


Discussion: Stackchange command By: Team 93 11/01/2004 16:13:50 GMT
Using RIS we have run into a problem where the RCX will not download the last program. We have two programs that use a variable watcher to do a Stack Change. If we eliminate the variable watcher from 1 of the progams everything loads properly. I first thought that this was a memory issue, but 3 of the progams are relatively short and we have had a much higher memory utilization in other years. Has anyone run into this problem before and found a solution?

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/01/2004 16:13:50 GMT
    We had this problem a lot last year. But our problem was to many blocks in a line or in the program. There is a limit that is hidden deep in the help text in RIS. Try an experiment, put your code back in and remove something else (same number of blocks) and see if it downloads. If it does, you will have to optimize your program to reduce block count.

    Let me know if this works.
    Laura


Discussion: Stackchange command By: Team 93 10/29/2004 13:13:49 GMT


  1. Message by: Team 93 10/29/2004 13:13:49 GMT
    Using RIS we have run into a problem where the last program will not load into the RCX. We have two programs that are using a variable watcher for a stack change and we have found that if we eliminate 1 of the variable watchers the programs will load properly. At first I thought that this was a memory problem but we have 3 relatively short progams and we have had much higher memory utilization in other years. Has anyone run into this problem and found a soution?


Discussion: RIS 2.0 Bugs By: flare614 11/23/2004 19:37:40 GMT
Boy, are we stumped on this one. My team and I are aware of the many bugs/limitations with the RIS 2.0 but, we have come across a problem we've yet to work around. Here it goes:

We have a very long string of commands instructing our robot to turn, go forward, reverse, etc.... We use a combination of rotation sensors and time successfully. We've use 3 Stack variables to maximize screen space and to work around the limits of stack size. These work fine.

The problem we run into is at the end of our program, located in stack 3, we have a simple command which reads:

Go in reverse for 55 Rotation counts. Stop.
Go forward for 25 rotation counts. Stop.
Turn Left for 1/2 second. Stop.
Go forward to Base for 2 seconds. Stop.
End Program.

When we get to the third line above "Turn Left for 1/2 second. Stop." IT WON'T STOP! IT JUST KEEPS TURNING... FOREVER! We tried using the rotation sensor instead of time... No Luck. We tried turning right instead of left... No Luck. We've narrowed it down. The program will not recognize the "Turn off Motors" command. Why????

This is so frustrating! We've isolated this piece of the program and have run it independently. Placed at the beginning of a program it works perfectly fine! It seems to be problematic only deep into the program.

We are very proficient in programming so you can imagine that this is driving us mad.

Can anyone offer us an explanation and better yet, a solution?

Thanks for taking time to read this!

Coach Wagner

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/03/2004 19:49:50 GMT
    As a RoboLab user, I have not seen this type of behaviour. I do know that RIS stores its programs in plain text assembler form. Perhaps looking at the text file might shed some light on the problem?!

    Also, have you tried re-loading the firmware to insure you have not exausted memory or have other weird issues?

    -Skye


    1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/03/2004 20:18:37 GMT
      Try adding a sound block after the 1/2 second turn to see(hear) if it finishes. Then if you here the sound, it may be you have exceeded the max number of blocks for a program. In that case, try to remove some blocks above the problem area and download the program.

      If the program works, then you HAVE over-run the max and you will have to optimize to have less blocks.

      If this does not work, send me the program and I'll load it on one of our robots (don't worry, I won't share your stuff with anyone:-)

      Laura


      1. Message by: flare614 11/03/2004 21:04:50 GMT
        We tried the sound block too. It won't play.

        We may have reached the limit, but we have had more eloborate programs in the past. Honestly, it's really not all that long (in my opinion).

        We plan on rewriting part of the program to make it smaller. Hope this works! Thanks for your input!


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/03/2004 21:08:20 GMT
          In RIS or RoboLab it does not necessarily matter how long the program is, but rather how big it is in relation to the largest memory block available. Since memory can get badly fragmented, your 'short' program may still be too long! Erasing all the programs (via battery removal or Interrogator in RoboLab) and reloading sone slot at a time can fix all kinds of nasty problems.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: flare614 11/03/2004 21:59:24 GMT
            I get what you are saying. I'll try it now and see if it helps! Thanks for the clarification!


            1. Message by: flare614 11/03/2004 22:12:05 GMT
              I re-loaded the firmware! Amazingly enough, it works! Thanks so much for the help!


              1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/03/2004 22:28:22 GMT
                YEAAAAA!

                -Skye


            2. Message by: 11/04/2004 00:08:00 GMT
              Deleted


    2. Message by: 11/03/2004 21:00:56 GMT
      Deleted


    3. Message by: FMSLego2758 11/22/2004 16:48:50 GMT
      Dear FLL Folks:

      Our team is hoping someone out there can help us. I apologize the message is long. We have been having trouble editing programs. We've communicated over the last week with the manager of Lego Technical Support andu nfortunately have not yet solved this.

      Our kids have written a number of programs for their robot. The programs work initially but later when they try to change the rotation sensor settings they are not able to make any changes. They open the block and change a number only to have the change not take hold and the block cannot be returned to the stack. Earlier and later versions of these programs all have the same problem. My non-programming way of saying this is that we can't get the block to "stick" back in the stack. We get to hear a rejection noise everytime we try to put the stack back together.

      What we've tried so far upon suggestion from Lego -

      1. checked the memory and virtual memory of the PC, to make sure the system was not loaded down with temp files in the Cache
      2. checked to see if it was corrupted My Blocks, but there were no My Blocks.
      3. Iuninstalled the software and deleted all programs and files
      4. kids created a number of new programs.
      The basketball program stopped working when they tried to change the
      rotation amount from 30 to 33. That was the first time they edited a
      rotation sensor in any of the programs.
      It doesn't matter which of the several basketball programs now we open,
      none
      can be changed now, including those files saved earlier.
      Any other program that had been saved now no longer works.
      All programs include rotation sensors.
      There are no My Blocks in any of these programs.
      5. we created a new program with a rotation sensor called test.
      we opened it and changed rotation settings and saved again as test 2 and
      test 3.these work! we did not however, download these to the RCX,.
      Which is the only thing i can think of that is different.

      The next advice from Lego folks was - "T"he rotation sensors are not automatically available in Robotics
      Invention System so you have to go into settings; two things
      1. If you reinstalled and did not manually turn on the rotation sensors,
      then the problem is in a .ini (information) file that has been
      corrupted. So if this is the case uninstall again and this time manually
      delete ALL LEGO MindStorms folders.
      2. Try turning off the Rotation sensor in settings and see if that makes
      a difference. "

      So, I unistalled, searched and deleted all program files, and all files in any folder with lego in the name. only file that I couldn't delet was an alt.dll file as it said other programs were using it.

      And i made sure the rotation sensor was off.
      Programs still couldn't be changed.
      I truned the rotation sensor on.
      No difference, programs still cannot be changed.

      Computer details - we've had this same problem on 2 different computers. one operates with ME, the other with XP. yes i've scanned all for viruses with up to date virus software.

      Any ideas other than continuing to write a new program every time they want to make a change?

      I've attached one of the bad programs.


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/22/2004 20:55:52 GMT
        A few question that might help...
        1) What version of RIS are you using?
        2) Under XP, have you tried to set the compatability mode to Windows 95 or 98?

        To fellow RIS coaches: Has anyone tried to load the above program to see if it works? Positive of negative replies would help isolate the issue! Please let us know what version of Windows you are using. Lets show FMSLego2758 what Gracious Profesionalism is all about!

        -Skye


    4. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/22/2004 18:47:45 GMT
      If its the same problem we had, you are probably out of block space. Delete some blocks from one of the programs that did not work and try again. This happened to us a lot last year once the kids found the copy feature. It allows you to paste more blocks than the legal number of blocks per program.

      Let me know if it worked. If not, send me one of the bad programs and I'll load it up and debug it. lmelnik@cfl.rr.com

      Laura


    5. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/23/2004 05:55:39 GMT
      I've tried changing your program on my computer, and like you, I can't change the rotation count or time. If I write the same program myself, there is no problem revising it. I looked at the text version of the 2 programs and didn't see any obvious differences as to why one works and the other doesn't.

      I'm using RIS 2.0 on Windows 98. We also use Windows XP at school and have never had a similar problem, but we haven't really used the repeat until block you're using.

      I do wonder why you're using repeat blocks and the go forward for time rather than wait until blocks. I believe you can get better accuracy directly controlling the motor power with the rotation sensor, rather than adding the time issues in, but I don't think that affects the problem you're having.

      Don't know if any of this helps, but maybe it will eliminate some possibilities.

      Monica


    6. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/23/2004 18:37:15 GMT
      Ok, I woke up this morning and realized that the only thing I did different when I reproduced your program was that I didn't make the time interval as short as you did. Must have been sleepy. So, I went back and changed one of my time intervals to .01 seconds, and VOILA! Failure repeat! Every block in the program, not just the one with the short time, refused to accept a revision to it's parameters. Went back into the text file and changed the time back up to 1 second, and everything came back to normal. So, the answer seems to be, at least on my computer, don't use .01 seconds. I didn't experiment to see just where the failure point is, but I think I will one of these days just to know.
      Hope this works.
      Monica (And guess what- Just went and looked at the UFAQ and there it is- don't use .01 seconds in RIS 2.0)


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/23/2004 19:37:40 GMT
        Execelent!

        Gracious professionalism at its best. Now another team has been given some life.

        -Skye


Discussion: Rotation programming question By: Robo Rovers 11/06/2004 04:09:45 GMT
Okay, I'm stumped. We are using the RIS programming language. The kids are working hard on programming using the rotation sensor to control the robot but they have run into a problem that needs some help. I know some programming but I can't figure this out either.
Here is the logic:
They give the robot a forward command, and then use the rotation sensor to determine when to move on to the next part of the program (if rotation > x). The next command blocks are stacked below the rotation sensor block. The program seems to want to loop back to the beginning of this stack because one of the command is for the robot to back up and turn left before continuing forward. This causes the rotation count to drop below the >x point and then as it goes forward it hits that >x point again and keeps looping.

We want to add another rotation sensor block to the program to the right, and carries another string of commands to control the robot (if rotation is > y).

We're having trouble getting the robot to follow the logic through these stages of code.

Do we need to be resetting the rotation sensor in the middle of the program? Or does each stage need to trigger from a higher rotation count? Is there a way to use a variable to help keep track of which part of the code should be executed, and when?

Does someone know of a good example of code that uses the rotation sensor that we could learn from?

Thanks for any help.

  1. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 11/05/2004 18:49:42 GMT
    The name 'Sensor Block' is very misleading. After all, you need to use sensors (touch sensor, rotation sensor) to give the robot a way to know where it is. So it makes some sense that you need to use a 'Sensor block' to use the sensors.

    You don't. In fact, for FLL, I would recommend NEVER using the sensor blocks. A sensor block is an interrupt to the main stack. Whenever the event that the sensor block is looking for happens, that code path will be executed. And when it finishes it will return, approximately, to the place in the main path where it was interrupted.

    To use sensors in a linear fashion the way you would expect (robot goes forward until rotation count > 35 and stops) you need to use the Wait Until or Repeat While/Until blocks.

    I've attached a very simple RIS program that will make a robot (like Roverbot in the Constructopedia) go forward until the rotation count > 35. Then stops the motors and then moves motor B (say an arm) for 2 seconds.

    No sensor block is used, yet the program does use the rotation sensor. Also note, we almost always reset the rotation before we use it (sometimes we want to accumulate distance but most of the time we don't.)

    One other issue to be aware of is the behavior of Wait Until and Repeat Until. For some reason RIS decided that these commands should be event based, rather than a simple conditional. What this means is that the Wait Until or Repeat Until will not finish until the "event" being checked for happens. In the case of my Wait Until Rotation Count > 35. The Wait Until will only finish if it sees the rotation count transition from <= 35 to > 35. This can cause some interesting issues.

    More than once my kids have forgotten to reset the rotation counter and their Wait Until never ends because the count started greater than the target value and the RCX does not see a transition. As a software engineer this is most annoying. The Repeat While works the way you'd expect it, not sure why they couldn't make Wait Until and Repeat Until do the same.

    Anyway, I've attached a simple program to give you a feel for how you can use the rotation sensor in a RIS program.

    Hope that helps,
    Courtney


    1. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/06/2004 01:03:35 GMT
      I think Courtney has it right. We also don't use the sensor block and use the "wait until" blocks for the sensors. I think of the sensor blocks as sensor watchers- they watch the sensor and interupt the main program whenever the assigned value is reached.

      The other thing I've learned is to always use > or <, not equals. Sometimes the program doesn't pick up every value from the rotation sensor, and if it misses the one you've set it to equal, it's as if it never got there.

      We do use cumulative counts and haven't had a problem, but our programs are pretty simple.

      Monica


      1. Message by: Robo Rovers 11/06/2004 03:37:30 GMT
        We did take Courtney's advice and it worked. Yeah!!!

        Thank you very much


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/06/2004 04:09:45 GMT
          Three cheers for Courtney!

          Hip Hip Hooray!

          Hip Hip Hooray!

          Hip Hip Hooray!

          Don't you just love it when a plan comes together!

          -Skye


Discussion: sensor stacking By: RoboticQuartet2061 11/13/2004 16:21:31 GMT
I understand that sensors can be stacked to put more than three sensors on a robot (e.g., connect a light sensor and touch sensor on the same port). However, I can't see how to make this work in RIS 2.0. Is this trick only possible with RoboLab?

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/13/2004 02:46:38 GMT
    No it is very possible in RIS.

    Case 1: More than one touch sensor on a port.
    Just tell RIS you have one touch sensor on the port. If any touch sensor is pressed, RIS will that that the "one" touch sensor was pressed. You will not be able to know which one was pressed, but you will know that one did.

    Case 2: One light sensor and a touch sensor.
    Tell RIS you have a light sensor. If the touch sensor is not pressed in, RIS will return values in the 30-60 range (unless you are operating on the sun). If the button is pressed in, it will return 99 or 100.

    Case 3: Rotation sensor and XXX. Will not work.

    Case 4: Two light sensors. Will not work.

    Case 5: Two rotation sensors. Will not work.

    -Skye


    1. Message by: RoboticQuartet2061 11/13/2004 16:21:31 GMT
      Thanks Skye. The "tell RIS you have a light sensor" part is what we were missing.

      -- Darren


Discussion: Printing Out Programs By: Minutemen 2023 11/13/2004 04:07:19 GMT
Help!
I'm trying to pring out our programs for the Regional Tournament, but there is no print command. Can anyone help me!

Thanks in advance.

Bill

  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/13/2004 04:07:19 GMT
    Read the UFAQ at http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

    -Skye


Discussion: Auto change of slot number By: fll-freak1328 11/18/2004 13:47:50 GMT
Is it possible to change the program slot at the end of a program and not have the new program start automaticaly?

From reading the LASM SDK it would appear that if the program change command is part of a program (and not sent via IR tower or button press) that the new program is selected and started. Has anybody found a workaround?

We should love not to have to advance the program slot!

-Skye

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/17/2004 16:29:15 GMT
    I don't know but you open up a whole new set of ideas. If we run out of space for a program, we can just have it continue in another slot.

    Where do you find all these bazaar commands?

    Laura (in awe!)


    1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/17/2004 16:42:05 GMT
      GRRRRR,

      I just realized I posted this to the RIS and not RoboLab forum. Just goes to show you I am human!

      In RoboLab it is possible to jump from the end of one program to the start of another slot. Not sure why you would want to do this as RoboLab does not have the stack size limitation that RIS has.

      I am not aware of RIS supporting this feature. I would guess that Mindscripts does and hence you could probably fool RIS into doing it, but it would be a hack.

      -Skye


      1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/17/2004 20:53:55 GMT
        Skye,

        Would you care to post the instructions on how to jump slots in Robolab? I can think of several very good applications of this concept.

        RoboManiacs
        Team #9
        www.robomaniacs.org


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/17/2004 21:02:05 GMT
          First I will need positive confirmation of USA $100,000.00 into my Swiss account....

          It's actually dirt simple. On the Icon pallete, click on the button that looks like an envelope. On this new menu is a Robolab icon that looks just like the Program button. It allows you to tie in a number (1-5) for the program you want to jump to. You will still need a red light, but nothing after the program icon will get executed.

          PS The location of the icon was from memory, but should be pretty close.

          -Skye


          1. Message by: RoboManiacs 11/17/2004 21:35:38 GMT
            Thanks. Need the number of the Swiss account!!!!!


      2. Message by: ScienceGoesBoink0002 11/18/2004 05:14:29 GMT
        I normally wouldn't do this but you have contributed so much to this list I thought I would pass this along. Robolab doesn't reset containers when executing a program. So... at the end of program n you set a container to 0 and then have it execute program n+1. Program n+1 is written to begin by incrementing the container value and then stop if the container is <= to 1. On the next press of the run button program n+1 will start. It will increment the container, and NOT stop because the container is > 1. Do this for each program 0 to 4.


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/18/2004 13:47:50 GMT
          It is still a hack, but a very simple and elegant one!
          Thank you.

          -Skye



Folder: Regional Information 09/15/2004 05:26:33 GMT



Folder: Alabama 09/08/2004 20:04:03 GMT



Folder: Alaska 11/11/2004 09:24:50 GMT


Discussion: HI other alaskans By: Debugs 11/11/2004 09:24:50 GMT
Hey other Alaskan teams!!!


Folder: Arizona 09/08/2004 20:06:42 GMT



Folder: Arkansas 10/07/2004 17:39:47 GMT



Folder: Welcome! 10/06/2004 17:57:26 GMT
Home Is Cool would like to extend a heartfelt welcome to all of the teams participating in the Arkansas Tournament. May God richly bless your efforts to communicate and work together to achieve your goals.

Discussion: Mtn. Pine welcomes, too! By: Country Breakfast 10/06/2004 17:54:15 GMT


Discussion: Mtn. Pine feels welcome!!! By: Country Breakfast 10/06/2004 17:57:26 GMT
We appreciate your welcome! We will enjoy going to Mountain Home, and we have enjoyed competitions in the past. Thanks again, for welcoming everyone!!!
We wish everybody the best of luck!


~The Country Breakfast~

Discussion: Mtn. Pine School By: Country Breakfast 10/07/2004 17:39:47 GMT
HELLO from Mountain Pine!
We are very excited about this competition, as is almost everyone else(hopefully). How are you doing on your missions?
We are still learning, and getting better every day.
If you want to discuss something, just type back to us, ok?

Good luck!!!
-Mtn. Pine

  1. Message by: Country Breakfast 10/06/2004 17:41:59 GMT
    Yeah, I guess no one cares about us Arkansans....

    ::cries::


    1. Message by: RoboManiacs 10/06/2004 17:45:15 GMT
      We all care about you. Couple things to remember though:

      1. This is not a chat room. People will read your messages when they come on.
      2. It's the middle of the work day. Most of the folks in this program have "real jobs" during the day.

      RoboManiacs
      Team #9
      www.robomaniacs.org


      1. Message by: Country Breakfast 10/07/2004 17:39:47 GMT
        OK...Thanks!!
        (We'll keep that in mind...)

        ~The Country Breakfast~

        P.S.- Do you like our team name? :)



Folder: California 10/19/2004 20:17:28 GMT



Folder: Northern California 10/30/2004 18:27:33 GMT
Use this folder to find or propose local teams, events, competitions and qualifying tournaments.
Also be sure to check the official
Teams and Tournaments section
and the NCaFLL web site (
http://ncafll.home.comcast.net)

Discussion: Qualifying Tournament - Palo Alto By: casti1310 10/30/2004 18:27:33 GMT
I can provide facilities for a scrimmage and qualifying tournament in Palo Alto. I cannot coordinate the logistics of the tournament. I am affiliated with four teams that will participate. If you are interested in putting together a tournament in Palo Alto, please email me at kyle_barriger@castilleja.org

  1. Message by: NCaFLL 10/08/2004 21:48:03 GMT
    Alex Targ and I are willing to organize a Palo Alto scrimmage on October 24 if we can confirm availability of a facility. We would also like to organize a qualifying regional tournament in Palo Alto on December 11.

    If your team is interested in either event, send your team number and contact info to steve@RoboticsLearning.com


    1. Message by: NCaFLL 10/14/2004 09:44:30 GMT
      The Palo Alto scrimmage has been changed to November 13. There is also going to be a Palo Alto regional qualifier tournament on December 11.

      Steve Putz
      steve@RoboticsLearning.com


    2. Message by: Tweeters177 10/30/2004 18:27:33 GMT
      Has this qualifyer date been changed to the 12th of Dec.?
      What has happened to the girls' Go Tech event? Is that still going to happen? If you still need a facility and are desparate enough to come all the way to SF let me know and I will ask around - maybe the Hamlin School or the Exploratorium would be willing.
      -Karen Sanford Tweeters177


Discussion: San Francisco Teams By: Tweeters177 10/21/2004 00:29:46 GMT
Are there any other San Francisco teams besides us?
Karen Turner Sanford
Tweeters177

Discussion: Pasadena Area? By: falcons1013 10/19/2004 20:17:28 GMT
St. Philip The Apostle School, Pasadena. This is our first year of entry and we have two teams. We had expected to find more information about other local teams by now - anyone out there :-) ?

Thanks

  1. Message by: legopros451 09/23/2004 06:25:50 GMT
    We are a returning San Diego area team. We see you haven't got any response to your posting yet. Neither have we. If there is anything we can do to help you -- advice from past years' experience or whatever -- feel free to contact us. Direct email is jbrooks6@san.rr.com.

    John Brooks
    Coach, Lego Pros


    1. Message by: falcons1013 09/25/2004 16:26:04 GMT
      Hi John,

      Many thanks for the offer. We probably need more help than we realise :-)

      We are off to a slow start, I tried to get people interested before the summer break but it took so long for the LEGO people to deliver the kits and so many people were busy over the summer that we only seriously got going in the last couple of weeks. None of the kids have done any of this before. At the moment they are split into two groups, one is working on mechanical skills - how to build pieces that do something while the other group is working on how to program the brick. We have not got to directly addressing the challenge yet.

      We are meeting for two hours on a Sunday at the moment but I am concerned that will not be enough - problem is both myself and the other coach are very busy during the week with work.

      How often do you meet?

      I will post this here and send it to you by email. Keeping the exchange public may help another beginning team in some way.

      Many Thanks

      Gary Spiers
      Coach St. Philip's Falcons


      1. Message by: legopros451 09/25/2004 19:57:12 GMT
        Hi Gary,

        Glad to hear from you. The first year is definitely the most challenging and things can sometimes go very slowly. For us in the first year, the missions didn't start to come together in anything like working order until the last two weeks before the competition.

        Take comfort that many other teams are in a similar situation. Also, do not think that your team needs anything like a perfect score to do well in the robot performance part of the competition. At last year's state tournament at Legoland, for example, only one team scored above 300 points out of 400. And even at the International Tournament, only three teams scored a 400.

        Also, remember that robot performance is only 25% of the overall score, and there are many awards for other things like design and programming. And, of course, the whole thing should be fun even if your team does not win any awards.

        Our team had a decent showing the first year but no awards; won a technical award the second year; and won the director's award the third year.

        You might want to focus on accomplishing just a portion of the missions very reliably, rather than trying to accomplish them all but with less reliability. There is a lot you can teach your kids about what they can do to make the robot more reliable (e.g., simplification of missions, navigation aids, solid structure, etc.)

        The first two years, we met twice a week (Friday nights and Sunday afternoons for two hours each). Last year we changed to longer meetings just on Sundays, both to make scheduling easier and because the kids were older and more experienced (10-11 years old) and thus had a little longer attention span and could accomplish things faster. For a first year team, just one meeting a week will probably be cutting it a little close. I would recommend at least adding some midweek meetings as your schedule permits.

        This year, we have added a new team for younger siblings in addition to the returning team, so we have a first year and a fourth year team. Last year, we had a local team drop by and see what our kids were doing. I know it would be a long trip for you, but we would be delighted to have your team come down and meet our teams some Sunday and exchange ideas and maybe go out for pizza afterwards.

        I will also email you.

        Best regards,

        John Brooks
        Coach, Lego Pros


    2. Message by: irken invaders 09/27/2004 05:51:25 GMT
      Our first year team met once a week with programming/robot building/attachment building on the agenda and once a week for research, using two different coaches, o each session. The team was young and it took a great deal of effort to keep them on track. We didn't score many points on the table but our research presentation came in second and made all disappointment at the table disappear.

      Our second year, last year, we tried to do the same but our research took a back seat due to some scheduling problems. That was taken care of during the final two weeks. We did better at the table and won another award for our research, ending up at the state competiton where we fumbled the ball at the table and in the research.

      Two key elements: First, discover what each team member is good at and let them do that. No one can do everything, not even a coach! Keep them on track. Deadlines cannot be missed. However, don't tie them to unrealistic goals. The first year, we tried to program the robot for each part of the table challenge. Unfortunately, the kids didn't realize until the final run-through in front of their parents that the robot was too slow to do half of them.

      Finally, make sure you have fun. If the coach isn't enjoying it, some of the team members might not be either. Fun team building exercises do not have to be only a first-week activity.

      Coach Mark
      Irken Invaders


      1. Message by: 10/01/2004 07:48:52 GMT
        Deleted


      2. Message by: LynwoodTigers3192 10/01/2004 07:50:11 GMT
        I have a couple of questions about your meeting schedule (just trying to figure ours out). I'm the only coach for our team and everyone pledges to be far more excited about building and programming than research. How did you get your team motivated about the research part of the project? Also, did you split the team at all or did everyone do everything? Thirdly, was 1 day a week enough to get each part done? Is it unrealistic to think that I can coach both ends? (I'm having trouble recruiting other willing adults.) Thanks for any insight.

        Stephanie Rieder
        Lynwood Tigers


    3. Message by: LynwoodTigers3192 10/01/2004 07:44:39 GMT
      We're a new team in Lynwood, CA and not too far from you guys. Likewise, we're in need of advice. I'm lucky in that we were able to get some of our team members together this summer, but just started working on the challenge. At any rate, its nice to know there's someone else out there in the area.


    4. Message by: MegaBlock Annihilators 1168 10/01/2004 22:11:12 GMT
      Last year, I started a team at Manhattan Beach Middle School (MegaBlock Destroyers). This year, I am co-coaching two teams at MBMS and I am helping coach one in Palos Verdes (some veterans of the Warriors and the Pink Fuzzy Bunnies of Doom plus four students from the LEGO Robotics Summer Camp that I taught for Beach Cities Robotics in Redondo Beach).

      My MBMS teams meet together for 2 hours after school on Mondays and Wednesdays. My Palos Verdes team meets for three hours on Friday afternoons. The teams have not picked names yet, but I think they will be ready to do that next week.

      MegaBlock Destroyers won a research trophy at LEGOLAND last year. Here is how my teams approach the research project. I told the students and parents at our orientation meeting that they would have an hour of research homework each week in addition to our team meetings. We work on the research project about an hour each week during meetings when most team members are present (some younger siblings come late from other schools, and some students leave early for soccer practice or music lessons). I assign research homework tasks each week, like visit a particular public place and take notes on any accessibility issues or features that you find, or do a Google search for a particular set of key words, skip the first n*10 entries, and then print out at least 10 pages of the most helpful information in the next 10 entries. If kids fail to turn in their homework pages two weeks in a row, I send them to a computer to finish their research before they get to work on the robots. We share what was learned, brainstorm ideas for the research presentation, and then get one or two students to volunteer to write a draft script using the printed web pages as resources. We then read through the script, brainstorm improvements, brainstorm props, revise the script, assign parts, memorize parts as homework, rehearse.

      MBMS will be hosting the Los Angeles Regional State Qualifier Tournament again this year. We got permission to use the gym this year, so we are expanding from 20 to 30 teams. We hope to see you all on Saturday, November 20.

      LeRoy Nelson
      FLL Coach, MBMS 1168
      FRC Mentor, Beach Cities Robotics 294
      www.bcrobotics.org


      1. Message by: LynwoodTigers3192 10/02/2004 05:08:14 GMT
        Thanks so much for the information. We will see you at the tournament at MBMS! I'm sure I'll be posting quite a few more questions...

        Stephanie Rieder
        Coach Lynwood Tigers 3192


    5. Message by: falcons1013 10/19/2004 11:08:58 GMT
      I'd like to thank everyone for their comments. We have increased our meetings to 2 days of 2 hours each and frequently overrun. This year will clearly be a getting the basics understood exercise.

      The Team developed a schedule for addressing the research topic and have pretty much stuck to it so far - the research topic is mostly an outside meeting hours activity although to kick it off we spent two weekends earlier to reinforce the importance and we now spend about an hour per week on it collectively.

      On the robot front the team talked about each of the challenges and picked what they considered to be an easy challenge as their first task to accomplish - returning the glasses to base. They arrived at a very simple solution that worked 80% of the time on the day they developed it however on the next day they discovered that it only worked 20% of the time because the robot veered to one side. This got into a discussion of how to ensure the robot travels in a straight line. The team recognizes that if they can crack this the other tasks become a lot easier as well. The first robot they tried used two motors and they tried balancing them by varying the power on one motor but that only works for a while. All of our motors are sufficiently different (they tested them using the rotation sensor to count turns over a 10 s period) that we do not have a matched pair. Now they are looking at one drive motor and a steering mechanism on a third wheel.

      Any of the more experienced teams prepared to say how they address this issue?

      Looking forward to meeting everyone at the LA Regional.

      Thanks

      Gary Spiers
      Coach St. Philip's Falcons 1013

      AS I had a computer hardware failure that limited my ability to get on line for a while - also very busy with work - hence the strange time I am posting this!


      1. Message by: MegaBlock Annihilators 1168 10/19/2004 20:17:28 GMT
        Sudden changes in behavior of a robot are usually caused by gear or wheel alignment or other friction changes. You might need to use spacers on the axels to keep wheels from rubbing against the chasis or reroute motor wires, for example. Side loads can cause misalignment, which can cause wheels or gears to slide along the axels if not retained. Motor speeds may decrease when motors are dropped.

        Matching the motor speeds helps a lot. A motor may run at different speeds forwards and backwards. Since motors on opposite sides of a robot generally run in opposite directions, you need to match the forward speed of one motor to the backward speed of the other motor. I had kids put masking tape on the ends of the motors and write the measured speeds on the tape. It is easy to remove the tape for competition.

        If the turning is less than can be corrected by lowering the motor speed on the faster side, swapping motors between sides sometimes helps. Remounting the motors may also inadvertently correct an alignment or friction problem.

        To extend motor life and maintain speed, avoid dropping, minimize side loads, and minimize switching between full forward and full reverse. Since you are dealing with kids, buy an extra motor or two.

        LeRoy


    6. Message by: thunderbolts11 10/19/2004 16:50:12 GMT
      Over the past 3 seasons, we never had a robot that really went straight. Either because the kids built on on side and the CG was off or because the motor configuration.
      We tried the differential setup and found there was to much slop.
      We tried the steering, but found it difficult to do anything other than go straight and turn predefined amounts (hitting stops).
      I have seen teams use both to great effect at tournaments. At the nationals last year there was a team that used a rubber band connected to the axles of both motors to cause them to even out. It was complex, but worked.
      We are using the 2 motor drive system (one on each wheel.)
      Another variance that happens overnight is the batteries go down. If your team uses time to go anywhere, remember that 2 seconds at full batteries is much longer than 2 seconds on weak batteries. (It took our team a long time to work this out.)

      Hope this helps.
      Laura


Discussion: San Diego area? By: legopros451 09/19/2004 17:08:22 GMT
Are there any other teams out there in the San Diego area? We are a returning 3rd year team and would be happy to talk with/meet with any other teams, and to share whatever experience we can.

Lego Pros


Folder: Colorado 09/21/2004 18:48:19 GMT


Discussion: Local Event vs State Tournament By: blockium1674 09/21/2004 18:48:19 GMT
We're a new team and don't understand the difference between local and state tournaments. Can we sign up for more than one local event? Do we have to qualify for the state tournament?

  1. Message by: The Fidgeteers-72 09/21/2004 18:48:19 GMT
    For Colorado the Local and State Tournaments are currently independent and you can sign up for either or both.

    There is no qualification for the State tournament that I know of, you can check the Colorado FLL site for details: http://www.coloradofirst.org/fll/

    For information on the Poudre tournament goto: http://home.comcast.net/~poudre-fll/main_page.htm

    Hope that helps,
    Courtney



Folder: Connecticut 11/23/2004 22:56:24 GMT


Discussion: Help - Team Seeking the 1999 Playing Field By: michelle 11/23/2004 22:56:24 GMT
Tim Barron is looking for leads on a playing field from the 1999 FLL competition. If there are any CT FLL teams who would be willing to loan one, please email Tim Barron FIRST Robotics Competition team 178, Farmington, CT barront@fpsct.org


Folder: Delaware 10/16/2004 04:31:00 GMT


Discussion: "No Limits Tuneup In PA" By: corpus236 10/16/2004 04:31:00 GMT
Lansdale Catholic Robotics is please to announce our 7th annual FLL Robotics Competition "No Limits Tuneup In PA" in partnership with Montgomery County Community College. This year's competition will follow the rules of the 2004 FIRST Lego League competition. It will take place on Saturday, November 20, 2004 at the Physical Education Building, Montgomery County Community College, Blue Bell, PA. The entrance fee will be $50 per team.

We will have judging for all the FLL awards and student presentations. Trophies will be presented for Best Round (top single round score) and Most Consistent (average of 3 best scores), Best Robot Design, Best Programming Design, Best Presentation, and Team Spirit. In addition participants will receive a medal celebrating their work.

Because of demand and the continued support of the college we have expanded this year to 56 teams. As in the past food will be available on site all day.

If have questions or you are interested in participating please fill out the form below and e-mail back to Frank Larkin (pafwl@aol.com). The return of the form will tell us of your intentions to participate. You will not be registered until we receive your entrance fee of $50. So please mail your $50 checks immediately.

********IMPORTANT ************************
Please make payable to "Lansdale Catholic Robotics"
********IMPORTANT ************************

Please mail check immediately to...
No Limits Tuneup In PA
Attn: Frank Larkin
1330 Mark Drive
Lansdale PA, 19446

=========== No Limits Tuneup In PA FLL Competition Form ============
(please fill out 1 per team)

FLL Team Number: _______

FLL Team Name: ________________________________

Team Contact Name: __________________________

Team Contact Phone: ___________________________

Team Contact e-mail: ___________________________

School or Organization: __________________________

City, State : _________________________________

Driving Time (hrs:min) from Blue Bell, PA: _______________

Number of Coaches: ___________________________

Number of Students: __________________________

Will you be giving a presentation? _________________


Folder: Florida 10/08/2004 21:47:59 GMT



Folder: SW Florida 10/08/2004 21:47:59 GMT
Collier, Lee, Charlotte, and Hendry counties.

Discussion: Teams in North East Florida By: JAXBOTS 10/07/2004 16:14:49 GMT
Are there any other teams in the Jacksonville vicinity? We (JAXBOTS)may host a regional competition if we have enough interest in the area.

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/22/2004 17:12:15 GMT
    You should host the tournament, I'm sure there are teams from Orlando and Brevard that would make the trip.


    1. Message by: PowerSurge624 10/07/2004 16:14:32 GMT
      Hello Florida Lego Leaguers,
      I have available to donate to a FL team a regulation size 4 foot by 8 foot wooden border to place around a challenge mat. It is not a table, just a border. We used it last year and no longer have need of it. I travel around the state a bit and might be able to deliver it or we can meet some place half way. If interested, respond to
      morpheus451@yahoo.com

      Paul Bresnan
      Team 624
      R2 D2 Firedroids


Discussion: SW Florida By: supernerds2273 10/08/2004 21:42:18 GMT
Are there any other teams i Lee or Collier County? We're in Naples and we're wondering if it would possible to put together a SW Florida tourney.


Folder: Georgia 11/04/2004 18:38:43 GMT


Discussion: Hello Fellow Georgians By: RoboTroopers 11/04/2004 18:38:43 GMT
Just wanted to put a hello out to any Georgians...hope to see you guys around...later Robotroopers

  1. Message by: twistedaxles638 09/15/2004 02:21:58 GMT
    We're here in GA too.. The Twisted Axles. We're looking forward to the kickoff tomorrow!


    1. Message by: 11/04/2004 18:38:43 GMT
      Deleted



Folder: Hawaii 09/21/2004 04:47:59 GMT


Discussion: New Hawaii Teams Group By: Punahou2506 09/15/2004 03:16:11 GMT
To receive the latest information about FLL in Hawaii, SUBSCRIBE to the HawaiiFLL Yahoo group here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hawaiifll/

Hope to hear from you soon!

Aloha!

Discussion: Team Sponsors and Locations By: Punahou2506 09/21/2004 04:47:59 GMT
Aloha New Teams!
I'm writing to ask that you please leave a brief reply here or at the HawaiiFLL site which states your Team sponsor (where your team meets or what school or organization you are associated with) and contact information such as phone number.

We need this information to demonstrate the level of interest in FLL in Hawaii. If interest is high, we'll have an easier time finding financial and logistical support for a great tournament.

So, please let us know who you are and where you're from.
Mahalo!

Aaron

Even though some of you have subscribed to HawaiiFLL, it's still can be confusing to piece the information together.

  1. Message by: homeschoolrobots1583 09/21/2004 04:47:59 GMT
    Hi Aaron,

    We are a group of 10 homeschool boys affiliated with the MOCCHA homeschool co-op. We meet at Pacific Island Bible Church and my house near Pearl Harbor.

    Linda
    Homeschoolrobots1583



Folder: Homeschool 09/15/2004 05:28:48 GMT
A place for homeschool teams to meet and network


Folder: Welcome! 10/11/2004 20:08:45 GMT
Welcome Homeschool Teams and good luck!

Discussion: Team Meeting structure By: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/11/2004 20:08:45 GMT
For those of you who have homeschool teams, are your team meetings during the daytime? Or are you having evening/weekend meetings to get the Dads involved?

Are you meetings once a week for a long meeting or two-three times a week for a shorter period?

  1. Message by: Homebots 09/27/2004 00:04:07 GMT
    For now we're meeting on the weekend to get dads involved.

    We may meet earlier during the week if needed to get our tasks accomplished.


    1. Message by: TX FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/28/2004 09:22:28 GMT
      We would add extra meetings as needed. For example as the season went on, we might have extra meetings just for research. Or we might have a session where it was mainly to programmers.

      Just before the competition we would also have some practice sessions where the only thing being done was practice, practice, practice the rounds to work on timing, adding attachments and that type of thing. Where we saw exactly how much could be done in 2.5 minutes.

      Susan


    2. Message by: thunderbolts11 09/29/2004 16:27:35 GMT
      We meet after school 2 days from 3:30 to 5:30. This is most convenient for the families as the kids come to us instead of going to the busses. As competition time gets closer, we will start meeting for a couple of hours on weekends.


    3. Message by: DCHS3136 10/11/2004 20:08:45 GMT
      Hi,

      We're a team from Douglas County Oregon. This is our first time and we have absolutely no idea what we are doing! But...we are enjoying ourselves and learning. We still haven't completely figured out the table setup and have just learned to use the touch sensor. Gears are throwing up....but we're gearing up to learn more. We have 10 on our team...two junior members and 8 regular members. All except one are ages 9-11. The other is "handicapped" and 14 but a great addition to our team. We meet two times a week for two hours and are discovering this isn't enough...once on Thurs afternoons and then on Sunday afternoons when dads can come. My husband acts as a "mentor." There are usually another 8-10 little ones ages 1-7 playing under all of our feet with larger legos. We're slowly developing a system of pairing up the kids and rotating them through different exersices so they all get a chance to do different things. This week it got alot easier with two RCX bricks and more legos that we got through amazon at an incredible price ($133). A team of 10 has been hard to work with but we are learning. We would love more ideas for organizing and keeping everyone learning.



Folder: Idaho 09/08/2004 20:10:32 GMT



Folder: Illinois 11/16/2004 22:23:25 GMT


Discussion: Champaign Regional By: Hellas Little Angels Team 91 11/16/2004 22:25:44 GMT
Where are the other teams that are going to the Champaign regional from?
We are from Flora IL. We are the Hella's Little Angels. Hella Electronics, our sponser, has been involved with FRC for 5 years now. The name of the high school team is Hella's Angels.
This is our first year with FLL.
We will be bringing a FRC robot to the demostration. We hope you all will enjoy it. This is the robot we won the St. Louis Regional with in 2003.

Alford Stewart Coach


Folder: Indiana 10/26/2004 22:32:59 GMT


Discussion: Hello Indiana By: Bremen Botz! 10/26/2004 22:32:59 GMT
Hello and welcome to all the teams from Indiana. We are looking forward to another year of fun and excitement! We are from Bremen (about 15 miles south of South Bend in northern Indiana).

Drop us a line and say hello,

Bremen Botz! - #121
Our Website (Updates coming soon)

  1. Message by: obstacle eliminators 10/19/2004 02:37:05 GMT
    this is 2 of the 6 little aliens. we sat next to u @ the ND tournament, u know where u got #1. we also saw u @ purdue.
    THIS YEAR U GOIN Doooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

    sincerely,
    Kavon & greg

    P.S. see u there.


    1. Message by: Bremen Botz! 10/26/2004 22:32:59 GMT
      I think we will be ready... We actually have two teams this year. Word got out how much fun we were having :)

      Are you going to be part of the practice tournament in South Bend?

      later...

      Les

      Bremen Botz!


Discussion: Local Northern Indiana Practice Tournament By: LaSalle278.280 10/05/2004 15:24:14 GMT
We will once again hold a practice tourament in northern Indiana for up to 20 teams. The date is Saturday November 13th. More information to come soon. Mark your calanders and reserve the 13th.

  1. Message by: LaSalle278.280 10/05/2004 15:24:14 GMT
    We have nailed down a location along with the date and time. The Norther Indiana Practice Tournament will be held:

    Saturday November 20th (moved from 13th)
    At LaSalle Intermediate Academy, South Bend In
    From 10:00 to 3:00
    Cost $10.00 for rental of facility
    Up to 20 teams
    Signup at http://sbotz.nd.edu/FLL2004/PracticeTournament.htm
    or e-mail David.Kolberg@Honeywell.com for more info



Folder: Iowa 09/15/2004 20:47:20 GMT


Discussion: Hello Iowa By: IAFLLModerator 09/15/2004 20:47:20 GMT
Welcome to the 2004 Season of FLL! No Limits is going to be an awesome challenge, and we are looking forward to hearing from teams and seeing your hard work in action at the State of Iowa Tourney on January 22!


Folder: Kansas 09/08/2004 20:12:41 GMT



Folder: Kentucky 12/01/2004 16:13:04 GMT


Discussion: Kentucky Teams By: Robo1461 12/01/2004 16:13:04 GMT
Hi our team is in Bowling Green, are there any other teams out here in Kentucky?

Karla
Coach, Bowling Green

  1. Message by: rustyengineers155 09/22/2004 02:06:05 GMT
    We are based in Walton with several kids from the N KY area, in our 2nd year.
    Paul Tagher
    Coach, Rusty Engineers


    1. Message by: BioMecha4423 12/01/2004 16:13:04 GMT
      We're a rookie team in Lexington.
      Trish



Folder: Louisiana 09/08/2004 20:13:40 GMT



Folder: Main 09/08/2004 20:13:57 GMT



Folder: Maryland 10/16/2004 04:31:55 GMT


Discussion: Welcome to Maryland FLL By: RoboManiacs 09/14/2004 04:26:09 GMT
Please use this forum to meet teams, ask questions, and make many FLL friends. Remember that the game designers (and rule gods) do not frequent this forum. While it is a good source of information and informed opinions, the only true source of rule clarifications is Scott Evans with First Lego League.

Discussion: "No Limits Tuneup In PA" By: corpus236 10/16/2004 04:31:55 GMT
Lansdale Catholic Robotics is please to announce our 7th annual FLL Robotics Competition "No Limits Tuneup In PA" in partnership with Montgomery County Community College. This year's competition will follow the rules of the 2004 FIRST Lego League competition. It will take place on Saturday, November 20, 2004 at the Physical Education Building, Montgomery County Community College, Blue Bell, PA. The entrance fee will be $50 per team.

We will have judging for all the FLL awards and student presentations. Trophies will be presented for Best Round (top single round score) and Most Consistent (average of 3 best scores), Best Robot Design, Best Programming Design, Best Presentation, and Team Spirit. In addition participants will receive a medal celebrating their work.

Because of demand and the continued support of the college we have expanded this year to 56 teams. As in the past food will be available on site all day.

If have questions or you are interested in participating please fill out the form below and e-mail back to Frank Larkin (pafwl@aol.com). The return of the form will tell us of your intentions to participate. You will not be registered until we receive your entrance fee of $50. So please mail your $50 checks immediately.

********IMPORTANT ************************
Please make payable to "Lansdale Catholic Robotics"
********IMPORTANT ************************

Please mail check immediately to...
No Limits Tuneup In PA
Attn: Frank Larkin
1330 Mark Drive
Lansdale PA, 19446

=========== No Limits Tuneup In PA FLL Competition Form ============
(please fill out 1 per team)

FLL Team Number: _______

FLL Team Name: ________________________________

Team Contact Name: __________________________

Team Contact Phone: ___________________________

Team Contact e-mail: ___________________________

School or Organization: __________________________

City, State : _________________________________

Driving Time (hrs:min) from Blue Bell, PA: _______________

Number of Coaches: ___________________________

Number of Students: __________________________

Will you be giving a presentation? _________________


Folder: Massachuseetts 09/15/2004 23:20:32 GMT



Folder: Teams South of Boston 09/14/2004 08:06:25 GMT
FLL teams in Metro South, let your presence be known!

Discussion: Sharon Eagle Robotics Unlimited By: Sharon Eagle Robotics 29 09/14/2004 08:06:25 GMT
Here's to another great season!

Our Sharon Youth Robotics Association website is at http://syraweb.home.comcast.net/

Discussion: 2004 Challenge .pdf By: Sharon Eagle Robotics 29 09/15/2004 23:20:32 GMT
Download a 2004 No Limits Challenge document in .pdf format, courtesy of Sharon Youth Robotics Association. Just a easily printed transcription of the info on the FLL web site, all copyrights are theirs.

To download it from our website, link to http://syraweb.home.comcast.net/photogallery2004challenge.htm


Folder: Michigan 12/27/2004 01:12:51 GMT


Discussion: tournament By: mobile morph1016 11/04/2004 23:18:34 GMT
I was wondering how was the state tournament here and who sponsers it.

Eric

  1. Message by: Wildcats2263 10/28/2004 21:49:40 GMT
    You need to go to http://eng-sci.udmercy.edu/precol/fll/index.html for information on tournaments in Michigan. Basically, every team gets a slot in a local tournament either Nov 13 or 20. The top teams at each local move to the State tournament in December.
    Monica


    1. Message by: satchmo1101 11/04/2004 23:18:34 GMT
      yeah. ours is nov.20. hope we do good!


Discussion: Adult Competition By: marist 12/27/2004 01:12:51 GMT
There has been a discussion about having an adult competition in NH

http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?230@@.ee97e05

Is there any interest in doing this in SE Michigan?

Peter

  1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 11/30/2004 02:27:38 GMT
    Yes! Yes! Yes! My organization would love to do this, you know we engineers are just kids at heart anyway :)

    Carla
    Coach Blue Cheesy Flamingos


    1. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/30/2004 03:59:04 GMT
      I'd be interested!
      Monica


    2. Message by: spacegirls544 11/30/2004 04:19:51 GMT
      Sounds like there are a number of us that are actually interested. Let's discuss this further via email. Email me your contact info, and I'll try to co-ordinate everyone.

      Paul Tan.
      paul@web2xml.com


    3. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 12/02/2004 05:38:28 GMT
      Peter are you thinking about holding one in SE MI? ( I am from SW MI but I would travel over for it) I would love to do that one where we could all meet at one place and hold the competition. Let me know if that was what you were thinking.

      Carla
      Coach
      Blue Cheesy Flamingos


      1. Message by: marist 12/02/2004 16:28:06 GMT
        Carla, it looks like Paul is taking up this challenge. Let him know that you are interested and get other coaches to sign up. Right now he has at least 6 but wants 20 or so to make it interesting.

        --Peter


    4. Message by: Bremen Botz! 12/27/2004 01:12:51 GMT
      We are from North Central Indiana... We would be interested in participating in something of that sort.

      My email is coach@bremenrobotics.org

      Send me any info you may have...

      Thanks

      Les Turner
      Bremen Botz!


Discussion: Local Tournament Problems By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 12/13/2004 21:42:29 GMT
Hi,
I was just wondering...if a tournament had a couple of very large rule violations (per FLL rules), where should they be addressed? I didn't say anything to anyone at the tournament we attended because I didn't want to cause trouble. My hope is that if I address them now they can be correct for next year.
Thanks for the help,

Carla :)
Coach Blue Cheesy Flamingos

  1. Message by: marist 11/30/2004 05:24:19 GMT
    Carla, I had the same type of issue a few weeks ago. I wrote an email to the tournament director and was very satisfied with the response. You can also email the michigan director: Dan Maggio, maggiodd@udmercy.edu

    -- Peter


    1. Message by: Wildcats2263 11/30/2004 15:53:44 GMT
      Carla,
      I've raised issues with Dan Maggio and have found him to be very interested in hearing about problems in order to improve the program. Defintely a good way to go.
      Monica


    2. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 11/30/2004 20:22:49 GMT
      I will send dan an email after our state touramanet. I am sure he dosn't need any more headaches with state coming up, plus I am busy getting my team ready for the tournament. Thanks for the help, Carla :)


    3. Message by: RoyalDominators1220 12/01/2004 16:16:32 GMT
      I would strongly suggest you talk directly to the local tournament organizer as well. I was at the same tournament you were, and I've found the director (Brad Raffenaud) to be cooperative and sincerely concerned about problems in the past. I am sure he would want to be aware of the situation and address it right away with the appropriate people. It will be easier to address now rather than later, especially if it involves a team who will be attending state! Good luck at Novi, Blue Cheesy Flamingos!

      John
      Coach #1220 & #1221


    4. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 12/01/2004 16:56:35 GMT
      The couple thing I saw will not affect anything concerning state, I have already asked dan. I only want to make brad and dan aware of the problems so that next years Zeeland tournament can be fixed. So I don't see any reason to cause any problems till after everything has settled down after state. I am sure everyone has enough headaches without me adding to them, Carla :)


    5. Message by: Robo Rovers 12/13/2004 21:42:29 GMT
      Carla,

      I actually felt a few things at the State needed to be addressed. I am glad to see others have had a good experience with contacting Dan about their issues. I was hesitant to make any comments since I don't want to be seen as a poor sport. We did very well but there were a few things the kids were suprised about during the research judging. Things that didn't happen that they were told to expect.

      I may send an email to Dan after all.

      Laura
      Coach Robo Rovers


Discussion: High Scores.... By: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 11/30/2004 21:16:28 GMT
Hey all,
Just wondering what some of the high scores are around michigan? Good Luck at State everyone!! :)

Carla
Coach Blue Cheesy Flamingos

Discussion: Anyone from West Mich. missing a food tray? By: RoyalDominators1220 12/01/2004 16:51:20 GMT
We found an extra food tray in our box of mission models when we got back from the West Michigan tournament. If you are missing yours, please contact me!

John
Coach #1220 & #1221
johnt@driesenga.com

  1. Message by: BlueCheesyFlamingos952 12/01/2004 16:51:20 GMT
    Hi,
    I think that may have been Zeelands...when my team got up to do that last challenge round the tray was missing at the table. Hope that helps, Carla :)

    Coach
    Blue Cheesy Flamingos



Folder: Minnesota 09/08/2004 20:15:58 GMT



Folder: Mississippi 09/08/2004 20:16:30 GMT



Folder: Missouri 09/08/2004 20:17:09 GMT



Folder: Montana 09/08/2004 20:17:43 GMT



Folder: Nebraska 09/08/2004 20:18:10 GMT



Folder: Nevada 09/08/2004 20:18:29 GMT



Folder: New Hampshire 12/13/2004 07:11:25 GMT



Folder: Nashua Area 09/13/2004 17:10:02 GMT


Discussion: Regional tournament Results? By: Pennichuck1376 12/10/2004 23:20:19 GMT
By now the first regional NH meet in Hollis should be history. Does anyone have any pointers to results? I am particularly interested in what the winning performance scores were so we have a yardstick to compare to our regional tournament.

Thanks.

Paul

  1. Message by: 11/08/2004 21:09:35 GMT
    Deleted


    1. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/15/2004 18:34:41 GMT
      Nashua, NH Local Tournament Unofficial Results, 13 Nov 2004 (1 of 2)

      Another of the NH State Tournament qualifying events took place in Nashua, NH on Saturday, Nov 13, 2003. (The first was last week, Nov 6, in Hollis, NH.) The tournament was well organized by the sponsors, Nashua High School's FRC Team #151. As far as I could tell, everything went off without a hitch! Congratulations are due to the organizers and all teams that participated. I was particularly impressed by the fact that the organizers extended the length of the day somewhat in order to have a single panel of judges for technical judging, and another single panel for research project judging, in order to increase fairness by having to avoid to "merge results" from different judging teams.

      There were 18 teams competing at the tournament to vie for 8 NH State Tournament qualification spots. The level of preparation amongst the teams seemed pretty impressive for such an early tournament; there were some amazing rookie teams, as well as seasoned veterans (some teams with 4 years of FLL experience!)

      The next posting in this forum are my unofficial results that I wrote down during the awards ceremony. (The posting are too long to be placed in a single message. If you post a followup, please do so after the last message, to keep this sequence together.)

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    2. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 11/15/2004 18:35:04 GMT
      Nashua, NH Local Tournament Unofficial Results, 13 Nov 2004 (2 of 2)

      • Director's Award - Team #3946, "Dark Seers" of McKelvie Middle School, Bedford, NH


      • Performance Awards
        • 1st Place - Team #3946, "Dark Seers" - Final Round Score of 310
        • 2nd Place - Team #7, "Mindstorms Mayhem" - Final Round Score of 236
        • 3rd Place - Team #1328, "Tekno Devils"


      • Technical Awards
        • Innovative Design - Team #1328, "Tekno Devils"
        • Robust Design - Team #2847, "Wheelchair Warriors"
        • Programming - Team #1376 - "Spoink 2.0"


      • Project Awards
        • Quality Research - Team #7 - "Mindstorms Mayhem"
        • Innovative Solution - Team #852, "The Desk Drawer of Helping"
        • Creative Presentation - Team #1374, "Bicentennial Bot Builders"


      • Teamwork - Team #1427, "Robotic Trees"


      I did not manage to record scores from the rounds. I think the Tekno Devils had the high schore of the day, with a score over 350. In general, the scores of teams seemed to have a wide variance. Our team's "maximum score possible" with the programs we had was 276. Our highest recorded score was 271. That score placed us 6th at the end of the first three rounds. We only made it to the finals by edging out teams with poor runs during the elimination rounds.

      Qualifying Teams for the State Tournament:
      • #3946 - Dark Seers
      • #1376 - Spoink 2.0
      • #2847 - Wheelchair Warriors
      • #1427 - Robotic Trees
      • #1365 - Robo Warriors
      • #852 - Desk Drawer of Helping
      • #3983 - MCA Minds in Motion
      • #7 - Mindstorms Mayhem


      Congratulations to the Dark Seers, who carried away both the Director's Award and 1st Place Performance!

      --ken
      Coach,
      Mindstorms Mayhem


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/15/2004 21:43:19 GMT
        Correction:

        The Tekno Devils are capable of a 379 score, but choose not (read "failed") to demonstrate this score at the local tournament!

        -Skye "High max, low reliability" Sweeney


    3. Message by: cleanupcrew1550 11/19/2004 19:25:37 GMT
      I have a couple of questions for the teams that have competed. Did any team try to De-Score the center ball or was it always a race to the center ball first? Also, did anyone deliver all 7 or 8 balls to the basket?

      Skye, what does your team fail to do in earning a 379?


      1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/19/2004 20:24:17 GMT
        A 379 is everything but the pesty 7 balls.

        I have not witnessed any de-scoring. As I suspected when the converstion first started, it sounds like a fun strategy, do it is very very very hard to do!

        I have seen teams deliver many of the balls but this tends to be from teams that only deliver the balls and a few other things.

        -Skye


        1. Message by: cleanupcrew1550 11/19/2004 23:46:41 GMT
          That is about what I suspected. De-Scoring is extremely difficult and delivering the 7 balls takes time. Was everybody going for the center ball first?


          1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/20/2004 01:18:17 GMT
            From what I have observed, teams that only did the center ball did it first. Teams that did multiple balls and hoped that one would hit the center did it at various times. In the two tournaments I have seen this year, I have seen a dozen "races to the center".

            -Skye


            1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/22/2004 18:52:10 GMT
              We hosted a tournament this weekend. It was great fun. Almost every team did the center ball first and it really got the crowd pumped. The MC could count down 3.2.1.Lego and the 2 robots would race to the center. The one team would scream yea and the other would boo. But it was great!

              The team that won the robot score was the one that always beat the others to the center. High score was 290.

              Laura


        2. Message by: FreedomEngineers1678 12/07/2004 19:56:33 GMT
          At the Va State tournament the 2nd place team in division 2 actually accomplished de-scoring another teams ball. Not only that, when de-scored the ball, it was to their side of the basket and they garnered the points. Very impressive. Also, the 1st place team in division 2 scored 400 points. From the demonstration I saw, they accomplished all of the balls in about 20-30 seconds.

          Lloyd


          1. Message by: 12/08/2004 23:00:37 GMT
            Deleted


          2. Message by: Bionic_Configurators_179 12/08/2004 23:05:50 GMT
            it actually takes about 45 seconds
            we also can remove the ball to our side and demonstrated it during the technical review.
            It was not required during any of our competition runs but now we wish we had shown it during the demo at the end.


            1. Message by: Nerds 868 12/09/2004 23:15:49 GMT
              Would you mind sharing with us how you accomplished that?

              Thanks


              1. Message by: Bionic_Configurators_179 12/10/2004 15:17:45 GMT
                Our program runs back and forth at full speed repeatedly
                pausing in base only long enough to load the next ball.
                This saves a lot of time reaching for the start button.


                1. Message by: Nerds 868 12/10/2004 23:16:39 GMT
                  Ok. How do you remove the other person's ball?

                  Thanks


                  1. Message by: fll-freak1328 12/10/2004 23:20:03 GMT
                    However you want or can! Once the ball is in the center basket, it is fair game to be removed by the other team's robot. Mechanisms to do this are most likely an advanced skill!

                    -Skye


      2. Message by: Wheelchair Warriors 11/20/2004 07:15:38 GMT
        What do you mean by de-scoring the center ball?

        Coach Dennis
        Wheelchair Warriors


        1. Message by: fll-freak1328 11/20/2004 14:57:18 GMT
          De-scoring is to remove the opposing ball before putting your own ball in the center hoop.

          -Skye


      3. Message by: marist 11/23/2004 04:24:37 GMT
        At our regional competition in Michigan we had a team (CATS from Oxford) de-score the other team's ball. It took them three attempts to hit it right, then they delivered their own ball. The run where they de-scored was not their highest. They did better earlier and scored a 393. I didn't see that one, so I'm not sure if they delivered more balls or got lucky by having the other team deliver fro them.

        Peter


    4. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 12/09/2004 23:48:32 GMT
      Merrimack, NH Local Tournament Unofficial Results, 20 Nov 2004 (1 of 2)

      Another of the NH State Tournament qualifying events took place in Merrimack, NH on Saturday, Nov 20, 2004. The tournament's sponsors, Merrimack High School's FRC Team #166, did a good job of coping with a whole bunch of uncontrollable difficulties throughout the day. The troubles included a late start and then slow table rounds at the beginning due to teams not knowing exactly when to come to the table on the revised schedule. However, due to a good recovery plan, things soon started rolling smoothly... Well, until the power to the building went out! A "lunch break" was declared and by the time teams were finishing up with lunch, the power was restored, and everything was rolling again. In all, it was a good local tournament experience!

      There were 24 teams competing at the tournament to vie for 13 NH State Tournament qualification spots.

      The next posting in this forum consists of unofficial results that I wrote down during the awards ceremony. (With this intro, the results are too long to be placed in a single message. If you post a followup, please do so after the last message, to keep this sequence together.)

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


    5. Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #7 12/09/2004 23:51:44 GMT
      Merrimack, NH Local Tournament Unofficial Results, 20 Nov 2004 (2 of 2)

      Here are our unofficial results of the Nov. 20, 2004 FLL regional tournament at Merrimack High School:
        Directors' Award: Flying Geeks Two (#1322)
        Robot Performance, 1st place: Mindstorms Mayhem (#7)
        Robot Performance, 2nd place: Batteries Not Included (#1353)
        Innovative Robot Design: Batteries Not Included (#1353)
        Programming--Robot Design: Scorpacudas (#818)
        Robust Robot: Mindstorms Mayhem (#7)
        "No Limits" Project Award - Quality Research: GBS Brick-Kats (#2773)
        "No Limits" Project Award - Innovative Solution: Flying Geeks (#1321)
        "No Limits" Project Award - Creative Presentation: DigiDudes (#2542)
        Teamwork: Nuclear Duckies (#1331)
        Team Spirit: GBS Techno Turtles (#2774)
        Top Seed in the Qualifying Rounds: Mindstorms Mayhem (#7)
        Youth Mentor Award: Dan Basin (sp?) and Justin McGarry (sp?)


      Top Teams Advancing to the New Hampshire State FLL Tournament:
        Scorpacudas (#818)
        Flying Geeks Two (#1322)
        RoboDummies (#1326)
        Species #8472 (#1327)
        Operation Unlimited (#1330)
        Nuclear Duckies (#1331)
        Batteries Not Included (#1353)
        Some Assembly Required (#1354)
        Munchkins (#1748)
        GBS Brick-Kats (#2773)
        GBS Techno Turtles (#2774)
        Handi Helpers (#2845)
        Legonators (#2853)


      [Also among top finishers were Flying Geeks (#1321) and Mindstorms Mayhem (#7) who had qualified for the state tournament at a previous regional tournament.]

      --ken
      Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem


Discussion: Advancement Criteria? By: Pennichuck1376 11/15/2004 22:54:44 GMT
I haven't seen anything written that describes what will be used to decide which teams will advance out of each of the regional tournaments to the state tournament. Does anyone have any idea how this will done? Performance scores? research scores? a composite? How many teams will advance from each tournament? I notice some teams are running in multiple tournaments. Do these teams have multiple chances? Any guidance will be helpful.

Paul

  1. Message by: thunderbolts11 11/08/2004 21:27:11 GMT
    I'm not sure what your state does, but Florida has qualifying events. For each qualifying event the top team in each category goes to states : Team Work, Research, Robot Design and Robot Performance. Additionally, there are 64 slots in the Florida Tournament and not all spots are filled by qualifiers so the extra spots are lotteries in. I think this is how it works :-\

    Laura


    1. Message by: roboticraptors1620 11/09/2004 18:22:17 GMT
      I know in our local qualifying event next week 8 out of 18 are going to go on to state.
      This is our second year. Last year our robot did not perform well but our research presentation was good. We wound up going on to the state level on that basis alone.


    2. Message by: SMART 1 11/09/2004 19:08:50 GMT
      It totally depends on your state.

      In CT this year they have 50 spots for the state competition. They did a lottery for 25 of them. So 25 teams already know they are in.

      For the other 25 spots they are having 5 qualifying events. The TOP 5 CT Teams at each qualifying event, not previously qualified through the random drawing, would then go to the state for a total of 50 teams at state.

      This is the first year CT is doing qualifiers so they may very well do it differently next year.

      Moral of this story? - You have to contact the main organizer for your state competition to really understand how it will work for your team.

      Good luck,

      Peter <