P.S.:dasjfhkasjdfhkdjsd
gru* alksfj*kjsfj
- Message by: leibniz-robots 02/08/2006 16:54:45 GMT
h*t ich fast vergessen : fhldsfjhsgdfjghadsfjhgsafjgkjshghhfgkjbhvjhdsbkhagsfdgkjasgfzew
Folder: Ocean Odyssey Poster 09/24/2005 22:39:32 GMT
Hallo Kollegen
Wir sind in der Gruppe Zentralschweiz.
W*re es eine Idee, gemeinsam eine Firma/Druckerei zu finden welche f*r uns alle je ein Exemplar des Ocean Odyssey Poster ausdrucken w*rde. Ich habe schon einmal bei der Firma Xerox per Mail angefragt. Eine Antwort ist noch ausstehend.
Discussion: Plakate By: CAMPUS.robot1014 09/24/2005 22:39:32 GMT
Wir haben Plakate bereits drucken lassen, in nem Copyshop "nebenan" in Gr**en A3, A2 und DIN A1, hat wunderbar funktioniert!
Pat
Folder: Robolab Software 09/28/2005 18:40:53 GMT
Informationen und Probleml*sungen
Discussion: USB-IR-Tower geht nicht - Hilfe By: CAMPUS.robot1014 09/28/2005 18:40:53 GMT
Hallo, ich habe das Wettbewerbset von VS-M*bel gekauft. Dabei ist der USB-IR-Tower. Leider will die Software immer nur den alten Tower am COM1 oder COM2. Wie kann ich das Problem l*sen bzw. funktioniert der USB Tower denn mit der RobolabSoftware 2.0.?
Sollte doch irgendwie gehen, wenn das im Wettbewerbsset mit dabei war.
Gruss
Pat
- Message by: Woinem Robonnics 09/24/2005 18:58:09 GMT
Ziemlich eindeutig: Benutze die (englische) Version 2.5, dann gehts! - Message by: CAMPUS.robot1014 09/24/2005 22:36:12 GMT
Danke f*r die L*sung; nur h*tte ich gerne f*r die Jungs die deutsche Version, gibts da gar keine M*glichkeit - vielleicht mit nem Patch?
Au*derdem wollte ich den RCX 2.0 mit der Robolab Software verwenden, geht aber nur mit dem RCX 1.0. Weisst du da auch ne L*sung; oder bleibt mir da auch nichts anderes *brig wie den RXC 1.0 zu verwenden?
Herzlichen Dnak f*r die Hilfe!
Pat - Message by: Woinem Robonnics 09/28/2005 18:35:30 GMT
3 Dinge dazu:
1. Ich sehe Englisch hier nicht als zu schlimm an, sind ja doch meistens grafische Symbole
2. Viellicht k*nnt ihr einen alten Parallel-Tower irgendwo ergattern (ebay!), die Leute lieben eher den USB, braucht keine Batterie.
3. RCX 2.0 ist mir v*llig neu, ich habe die Dinger recht neu, bei mir steht RCX 1.0 drauf! - Message by: CAMPUS.robot1014 09/28/2005 18:40:53 GMT
Vielen Dank f*r die Antwort!
1. Die jungs sind mit 10 und 11 Jahre sehr jung; allerdings geht es schon irgendwie mit English
2. Habe einen Tower bestellt! (F*r die Deutsche Robolab 2.0-Versoin)
3. RCX 2.0 ist bei Mindstorms Invention (im Fachhandel) dabei, hat aber auch keinen Anschluss f*r ein Netzteil; allerdings funktioniert die Software inzwischen auch mit dem RCX 2.0, warum auch immer.
Danke
Gruss
Pat
Folder: Sponsor 11/02/2005 14:14:36 GMT
Hallo,
wir suchen *berall einen Sponsor und k*nnen aber nirgendswo einen finden, habt ihr alle schon einen???
Wen habt ihr denn so gefragt, uns sagen alle ab...
MFG
Lagrobots
Discussion: Sponsoring By: TrittauTeam1067 11/02/2005 14:14:36 GMT
Ja, es ist f*r uns auch schwierig. Wir bekommen erst gar keine Antwort der Firmen.
- Message by: Lagrobots 11/02/2005 14:14:36 GMT
JO.. wir haben jezz nach langer Zeit endlich zwei firmen geufunden die uns nen bissl Geld gegeben haben.. und habt ihr schon jemanden gefunden????
Folder: Tuning Total? 11/03/2005 17:00:58 GMT
Unser Roboter (wird bald) voll getunt sein...
(Optisch)
Ist das den erlaubt?
(Schon mal neons ausprobiert?)
Ach und noch etwas:wer rectschreibfehler findet,darf sie behalten!
[LMS Tuner]
Team Underground Tuner
Pogrammierer
Tuning-Erschaffer(bei unserem Robo!)
Folder: unser problem mit der pipeline aufgabe 11/08/2005 19:02:34 GMT
wir sind uns noch unschl*ssig mit welcher methode wir die pipeline aufgabe l*sen sollen. welche m*glichkeiten benutzt ihr?
k*nntihr mir welche nennen?
Folder: Welche Teames haben eine Homepage 11/15/2005 18:48:13 GMT
Hi wir sind die krossen Krabben der Herta Lebenstein Realschule unsere page lautet http://www.hps4u.net/members/diekrossenkrabben/ Habt ihr auch eine dan schreibt doch euern link unten hin
Discussion: ja wir By: MagicCreators1137 11/15/2005 18:48:13 GMT
und zwar http://MagicCreators.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de
- Message by: Die krossen Krabben 11/02/2005 16:11:47 GMT
So eure Homepage ist total stumpf *berlegt euch mal was richtige. Lustich war se trotzdem - Message by: flu 11/10/2005 14:17:35 GMT
N* wie ham keine voll der schei* - Message by: deep blue 11/11/2005 18:49:32 GMT
http://www.deep-blue.eu.tf
Die neue Homepage vom Team "Deep Blue" !! - Message by: leibniz-robots 11/15/2005 18:48:13 GMT
also wir haben NOCH keine homepage aber bald
wird sich wahrscheinlich so nennen :
www.wir-werden-hoffentlich-gewinnen-nein-wir-werden-sogar-sicherlich-gewinnen.de
Folder: Wettbewerb 11/15/2005 17:58:32 GMT
Wie viele Leute d*rfen wir nach Rockenhausen mitnehmen?
Discussion: Discusssion Language for Switzerland By: Stausee1097 09/19/2005 17:15:28 GMT
I would like to start a discussion about the language issue in Switzerland. Do we create a separate folder for Switzerland and everyone can write and respond in their own language or would the French speakers prefer to go to the French forum and the German speakers stay in the German forum. Replies in German, French or Italian are welcome. Romantsch is a bit more difficult for me to handle.
- Message by: SAP Unterwasserroboter 09/17/2005 10:15:56 GMT
Hallo
Wir glauben, dass es gen*gt wenn wir das Forum f*r Deutschland benutzen.
Gruss
Die SAP Unterwasserroboter - Message by: MagicCreators1137 09/19/2005 17:15:28 GMT
Keine Ahnung ich sprech eh nur deutschl*ndisch und engl*ndisch und franzosl*ndisch und lateinl*ndisch
UND IHR??????????????????????????????????
Euer Dorschbert
Magic Creators
Hi endlich hat die FLL wieder begonnen!!!!
nun auch in Magdeburg. ich bitte alle Teilnehmer ds Regionalwettbewerbs Magdeburg hier etwas hineinzuschreiben!!
Euer Tarik
Magic Creators
- Message by: MagicCreators1137 09/26/2005 18:07:21 GMT
schreibt doch mal was
!!!!!!!!!!! - Message by: Lagrobots 10/05/2005 13:30:48 GMT
Hey hat Lage gegen euch eigendlich eine changse? K*nnt ihr uns Tips geben, wie man Fehler vermeiden kann? Lage ist das erste mal dabei und wir hoffen, dass wir nicht letzter werden XD - Message by: MagicCreators1137 10/08/2005 19:39:06 GMT
Vielleicht... - Message by: chaosdesigner1091 10/09/2005 13:39:37 GMT
Wir sind auch wieder dabei, nun schon zum 4. Mal, wie jetzt immer mit 2 Teams aus Brandenburg.
Haben in den letzten Jahren und vor allen Dingen im April beim Worldfestival einiges dazugelernt und neue Erfahrungen mit Problemen gemacht. Nun hoffen wir, dass es bestm*glich f*r uns weitergeht und w*nschen auch euch allen einen guten & lehrreichen Wettbewerb im Jahre 2005 AD.
Die Chaos Designer - Message by: MagicCreators1137 10/11/2005 19:20:56 GMT
Hallo! Kann es sein, dass ihr uns vergessen habt? Wir sind die Magic Creators aus Magdeburg und haben letztes Jahr in Brandenburg den Pokal f*r die beste Ausdauer bekommen. Macht es 'Klick'? Ich hoffe es... - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/24/2005 16:59:23 GMT
oink - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/24/2005 17:01:25 GMT
Welches Tier war das wer das wei* schreibt eine E-Mail an Wendfelder@web.de man kann was tolles gewinnen! Einsendeschluss ist der - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/24/2005 17:01:48 GMT
13.11.05
Tach Leuts,
wir haben da eine Frage: Braucht man wirklich diesen Spieltisch oder reicht es aus, ein Gestell f*r die Abgrenzung zu bauen?
Beste Gr**e
P-Sea
- Message by: SAP_Lego_Kids_II1157 09/19/2005 17:53:02 GMT
Hallo P-SEA,
es reicht aus die Umrandung zu haben, wenn ihr auf dem Boden arbeitet oder etwas *hnliches wie den Tisch als Unterlage habt.
Zum Ausprobieren ist es nat*rlich am Tisch um einiges besser, da niemand auf der Matte ruml*uft, man auf einem Stuhl sitzen und beobachten kann und die Bedingungen so sind wie beim Regional-Wettbewerb.
Viele Gr**e,
SAP_Lego_Kids - Message by: SAP Unterwasserroboter 09/19/2005 19:55:22 GMT
Hallo Kollegen
Wir haben den Tisch nach den Angaben gebaut. Letzten Samstag haben wir die gelieferte Matte bekommen und auf den Tisch gelegt. Zum Erstaunen aller die Matte ist um einiges kleiner als der Tisch. Weiss jemand warum das so ist ? - Message by: Woinem Robonnics 09/24/2005 19:01:56 GMT
Letztes Jahr war er etwas groesser. So ganz genau ist das alles nicht, sieht man auch an den Markierungen fuer die pipieline. Insgesamt ist das nicht so schlimm. - Message by: nonames 09/20/2005 14:49:42 GMT
Hallo,
gibt es einen festen Startpunkt? - Message by: nonames 09/20/2005 14:51:52 GMT
Hallo,
Ich wollte mal fragen, ob ein Startpunkt festgelegt wurde. - Message by: SAP Unterwasserroboter 10/01/2005 10:58:01 GMT
Hallo no names
her Startpunkt far ale Aufgaben sit die Base.
Dies sit be den Aufgaben sehr gut beschrieben.
Gruss
Die SAP Unterwasserroboter - Message by: nonames 09/20/2005 14:53:41 GMT
Hallo,
gibt es einen festen Startpunkt? - Message by: nonames 09/20/2005 14:54:33 GMT
Hallo ihr,
ich hab ne Frage, ist es egal welcher Greifer der Roboter hat? - Message by: Robofreaks 1003 09/21/2005 18:08:26 GMT
Hallo nonames,
ihr startet von der Base aus, und das ist der gr*ne Bereich in diesem Jahr.Ungef*hr ein Dreieck. Von welchem Punkt dieser gr*nen Fl*che ihr startet, das bleibt euch *berlassen. D.h. ihr k*nnt euch den g*nstigsten Weg aussuchen. Wir machen zum dritten Mal mit, deshalb k*nnt ihr uns glauben. Viel Spa*
die Robofreaks aus Herten - Message by: 09/21/2005 19:49:51 GMT
Deleted - Message by: CAMPUS.robot1014 11/17/2005 11:09:24 GMT
die base ist die einzigste Vorgabe f*r den startpunkt, in dem bereich hast du alle m*glichkeiten.
Gru* CAMPUS.robot - Message by: GMT
Hallo,
wei* jemand von euch, wie viele Punkte man f*r die Flaggen bekommt? Wenn man f*r jede Fahne 30 Punkte bekommen w*rde w*re das ja mehr wie alles andere zusammen. un wenn eien Fahne reicht?!?! ist alles irgentwie komisch. Vielen Dank f*r eure Antworten und wir w*nschen euch noch viel Erfolg bei euren Aufgaben.
Mit freundlichen Gr**en
YellowSAPmarine
- Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/20/2005 15:32:30 GMT
From rules at http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=19380
30 Punkte (jede Flagge)
15 Punkte (jede komplette Reihe)
Um das Gebiet des Schiffwracks aufzuzeigen, muss der Roboter die Flaggen aufstellen. Dabei erh*lt das Team f*r beliebig viele aufgestellte Flaggen 30 Punkte; jede komplett aufgestellte Reihe ist zus*tzlich 15 Punkte wert.
15 + 15 + 15 + 30 = 75 total
-Laura - Message by: Woinem Robonnics 09/24/2005 19:04:11 GMT
Das heisst wohl: eine einzige Flagge umgelegt, egal welche - aber auch egal ob noch mehr dazu kommen bringt 30 P? - Message by: desperados1114 10/05/2005 11:21:23 GMT
ja, au*er falls eine ganze reihe umgelegt wird...
dann bekommt man 15 punkte extra!
also:
8 fahnen, aber keine ganze reihe: 30 punkte
1 fahne: 30 punkte
4 fahen und 1 ganze reihe: 45..
und so weiter...
mfg.
desperados
Hallo,
weiss jemand von euch, ob man Zielobjekte wie z.B. das Riff, wenn sie vom Roboter in die Base gebracht werden, mit der Hand abladen darf?
Schonmal vielen Dank f*r eure Antworten im Voraus und noch viel Erfolg bei euren Aufgaben.
Mit freundlichen Gr**en
YellowSAPmarine
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 09/21/2005 18:11:00 GMT
Hallo,
sobald das Zielobjekt in der Base ist, kann es per Hand abgeladen werden. Ihr d*rft bzw. m*sst ja auch per Hand den Roboter umbauen in der Base.
Robofreaks aus Herten - Message by: 11/02/2005 19:10:03 GMT
Deleted
Hallo, wir das Team von Shark City haben ein kleines Problem mit der Aufstellung mit der Pipeline.Laut Aufgabenstellung soll das Team die gelben Fahnen herunterdr*cken und somit eine Kettenreaktion ausl*sen.Nur bei uns gibt es keine Reaktion, da sich ein zwischenraum im mittleren Teilergibt.Somit ber*hren sich die Pipe *berhaupt nicht. Funktioniert es bei euch allen, wie beschrieben?
- Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/21/2005 19:59:24 GMT
Did you read the field setup instructions ( Spielfeldaufbau und Platzierungen) ? The pipelines on either side of the center need to be placed NOT in the squares.
Check here:
Pipeline:
LEST EUCH DIE GESAMTE ANLEITUNG DURCH BEVOR IHR BEGINNT
Dieses Modell besteht aus drei Teilen - Teil 1 (Westseite), Teil 2 (Zentrum) und Teil 3 (Ostseite). Alle werden mit Hilfe von Dual Lock auf der Matte befestigt. Teil 1 hat gelbe Flaggen und ist am weitesten von der Base entfernt. Teil 2 ist kurz und steht in der Mitte. Teil 3 hat keine Flaggen.
Teil 1 (Westseite): Die gelben Flaggen m*ssen nach links ausgerichtet sein. Schaut euch die Skizze an und bedenkt, dass die F**e rechts neben den aufgezeichneten Fl*chen auf dem Spielfeld befestigt werden m*ssen. Benutzt f*r jede Fl*che drei Dual Lock Paare (12 Paare insgesamt).
Teil 3 (Ostseite): Hier ist es wichtig, dass die F**e links neben den aufgezeichneten Fl*chen befestigt werden (siehe Skizze). Das Dual Lock wird genauso angebracht, wie bei der Westseite.
Zentrum: Beachtet bitte, dass der Umriss auf der Spielfeldmatte gr**er, als das Modell ist. Befestigt das Dual Lock nicht auf der Spielfeldmatte, sondern an der Unterseite des Modells. Benutzt jeweils ein Dual Lock Paar in den Ecken und ein Paar in der Mitte. Richtet das Modell nun *ber dem Zentrum aus und dr*ckt es auf die Spielfeldmatte. Schiebt anschlie*end das Zentrum in die inaktiv-Position und richtet es nach Osten aus. Wenn ihr das Zentrum in die aktiv-Position schiebt, m*ssen alle drei Teile eine Linie ergeben. Anschlie*end kann die Ostseite in Richtung Base geschoben werden. Alle drei Teile m*ssen sich nun bewegen. Falls die Pipeline nicht korrekt funktioniert, m*sst ihr das Zentrum verschieben.
-Laura - Message by: sharkrcity1109 09/21/2005 20:05:13 GMT
Danke, werden es versuchen.Wenn es nicht klappt, werden wir nochmal Posten.
Also die Umrisse sind gr**e als die Pipeline. - Message by: chaosdesigner1091 09/22/2005 15:33:52 GMT
Hallo an alle Teams, wir sind auch wieder dabei!
Mit der Pipline haben wir auch Sorgen. Es hei*t, dass das Mittelteil nach Osten ausgerichtet sein soll. Bedeutet das dann, dass das Mittel erst nach West und dann nach S*d bewegt werden muss?
Chaos Designer - Message by: pathfinder1118 09/26/2005 15:20:59 GMT
Hallo, auch wir sind dieses Jahr mal wieder dabei.
Bei uns ist das alles klar mit der Pipeline. Wir haben das so verstanden, dass Mittelteil nach Norden/Osten ausgerichtet ist. Wenn wir das falsches im Gedancken haben, dann schreibt bitte noch mal eine Antwort.
Danke erst mal
Pathfinder - Message by: FH Brandenburg 09/28/2005 13:24:44 GMT
Hallo,
im Anhang ein Bild einer aufgebauten Pipeline.
Ingo - Message by: Lagrobots 10/01/2005 16:13:59 GMT
Wegen dem Bild der Pipeline: Da stehen die "S*ulen" ja auch nicht auf den Markierungen - Message by: FH Brandenburg 10/03/2005 19:01:03 GMT
Ja, so ist es in der Baulanleitung beschrieben:
Unter "Spielfeld und Platzierung" steht f*r die linke Seite "rechts neben den aufgezeichneten Fl*chen " und andersrum f*r die rechte Seite. - Message by: muisanmygslrak 10/07/2005 16:08:03 GMT
Wir vom Team muisanmygslrak haben noch eine andere Frage zur Pipeline: Wann darf das Team die gelben Fahnen umlegen? Schon w*hrend des Matches oder erst danach? In den Regeln wird kein bestimmter Zeitpunkt genannt; aber in den letzten Jahren war es nicht *blich, dass ein Gruppenmitglied aktiv in das Geschehen auf dem Spielfeld eingreift.
Vielen Dank!
moritz, muisanmygslrak - Message by: vhs1199 10/10/2005 16:47:58 GMT
POPO - Message by: Underground Tuner 10/25/2005 16:52:59 GMT
BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA... - Message by: Underground Tuner 10/25/2005 16:57:52 GMT
Was habt ihr denn f*r das Bild gekriegt?-Ich h*tt` euch lebensl*nglig gegeben
Hallo zusammen
Ich will nur sicher gehen, dass wir das richtig aufgebaut haben. Ist das bei euch auch so, dass wenn der Roboter von vorne durch den Fahnenjungel f*hrt, dass sich dann die Fahnen immer gegenseitig wieder umkippen. So dass man das also anders l*sen muss?
Gr*sse
Borobotuk
- Message by: YellowSAPmarine1148 09/22/2005 17:27:56 GMT
Ja, das ist bei uns genau so. Ich denke das wurde so konstruiert um die Aufgabe schwieriger zu machen. Es gibt mindestens eine M*glichkeit es auf andere Art und Weise zu l*sen.
Mit freundlichen Gr**en
YellowSAPmarine - Message by: CAMPUS.robot1014 09/28/2005 18:43:38 GMT
Hi,
ja das ist bei uns auch nicht anders; wir haben auch schon eine m*gliche L*sung diskutiert, gibt aber bestimmt noch weiter - und immerhin gibts schon Punkte wenn auch nur eine Fahne steht!
Die CAMPUS.kids - Message by: desperados1114 10/05/2005 11:27:15 GMT
die CAMPUS.kids haben recht....
aber irgendwie muss es gehen, die fahen umzuwerfen....
wir werden noch herumexperimentieren....
mfg.
desperados - Message by: Lego-Eulen 10/11/2005 18:11:45 GMT
Auch die Lego-Eulen und die Eulotroniks haben dieses Problem. Wo ist die L*sung? Ich hatte gedacht, dass solche Fragen auch hier beantwortet werden! 8-)
Dieter Ha*
Team Lego-Eulen
Team Eulotroniks - Message by: leibniz-robots 11/15/2005 17:45:16 GMT
Is jenauso
Hallo, hier nochmal das Team von SharkCity.
Bin etwas neugierig und w*rde gerne von den anderen Teams wissen, was f*r ein Forschungthema sie ausgew*hlt haben.
Wir haben das Thema Meer und Gesundheit.
- Message by: MagicCreators1137 09/29/2005 08:43:36 GMT
Wir haben das Thema: Der Mensch beutet das Meer aus ausgew*hlt. Et je n'ai pas eu le temps de te dire au revoir. Excusez-moi. - Message by: SAP Unterwasserroboter 10/01/2005 11:11:24 GMT
Hallo MagicCreators
Wir konzentrieren uns auf das was wir in der Schweiz haben, n*mlich Fl*sse und Seen.
Wir *berlegen uns wie wir den Zusatnd dieser Untersuchen k*nnen.
Gruss
SAP Unterwasserroboter - Message by: SAP Unterwasserroboter 10/08/2005 14:53:10 GMT
Hallo alle
Weiss jemand wie viel Platz man hat, um ein Poster f*r die Pr*sentation der Forschungsaufgabe aufzuh*ngen ? - Message by: Lego-Eulen 10/09/2005 10:16:23 GMT
Welche Hilfsmittel f*r die Pr*sentation stehen vor Ort zur Verf*gung?
Wir brauchen evtl. einen Beamer, etl. eine Flip-Chart. K*nnen solche Hilfsmittel (auf Antrag) vom Veranstalter gestellt werden? Evtl. gen*gt f*r usn auch eine einfacher Over-Head-Projektor.
Dieter Ha*
Teams
Lego-Eulen und Eulotroniks - Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/18/2005 18:19:26 GMT
Warum fragt ihr nicht einfach bei den Leuten der eigenen Austragungsstelle nach, die wissen doch am besten, welches Material sie zur Verf*gung haben. - Message by: SAP Unterwasserroboter 10/29/2005 14:52:01 GMT
Haben wir schon per Mail gemacht, aber es kam keine Antwort.
Gruss - Message by: P-Sea1078 10/19/2005 22:27:04 GMT
Hallo, eine Frage an die erfahrenen Teams nach den Erfahrungen der letzten Wettbewerbe: Welchen Stellenwert hat der Forschungsauftrag innerhalb des Wettbewerbs? Wieviel Zeit wird f*r die Pr*sentationen spendiert im Verh*ltnis zu den Roboter-Matches?
Welchen Einfluss hat das Ergebnis oder die Pr*sentationsform wirklich auf die Bewertung? - Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/21/2005 20:54:24 GMT
Es gibt auch einen Pokal f*r die beste Pr*sentation. Und den Championspreis gibt es f*r die Roboterleistung und die Pr*sentation zusammen. Also nicht unwichtig. Aber warum fragt ihr, habt ihr Probleme mit der Pr*sentation ? - Message by: MagicCreators1137 10/23/2005 18:34:59 GMT
Robofreaks: wir denken suoer-wichtig, also richtig!
P-Sea: 5 Minuten
Viel Gl*ck!
Magic Creators
Auch Lage ist diesmal bei der FLL vertreten. Ich w*rde sagen wir sind froh, wenn wir nicht letzte werden XD.
Vieleicht k*nnen uns die Stammis ein paar Tips geben!
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/09/2005 12:40:18 GMT
Hallo Lagrobots,
wir machen jetzt zum dritten mal mit. Und wir k*nnen euch nur sagen: Baut ganz solide, robust und einfach. Euer Roboter muss *berhaupt gar nicht alle Aufgaben l*sen k*nnen. Aber die Aufgaben, f*r die er programmiert ist, die m*ssen sitzen. *berlegt euch am Anfang, welche Aufgabe ihr weglassen wollt, denn alles k*nnt ihr kaum schaffen. Bei den letzten Wettbewerben war man mit ca. 220 Punkten schon gut dabei. Wir hoffen, dass euch das schon hilft.
Robofreaks aus Herten - Message by: Nautilus1 11/10/2005 15:43:36 GMT
Habt ihr euer Spielfeld festgeklebt?
Wenn ja, wie? - Message by: Woinem Robonnics 11/15/2005 19:40:36 GMT
Einfach Reisszwecken am Rand, geht gut. - Message by: Nautilus1 11/17/2005 15:43:48 GMT
Aber dann machen wir ja unsernen ganzen Tisch kaputt. - Message by: Nautilus1 11/17/2005 15:49:17 GMT
ui - Message by: Nautilus1 11/17/2005 15:52:21 GMT
WIE GEHT DER IVENTOR?! - Message by: leibniz-robots 11/19/2005 11:41:22 GMT
MACHT AM bESTEN GAR NICHT MIT (GUTER TIPP) - Message by: leibniz-robots 11/19/2005 11:44:27 GMT
Tschuldigung, das meinte ich nicht so!
Darf man eine Fernbedienung zum Starten des Roboters benutzen?
von Roman
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/09/2005 09:24:45 GMT
Hallo Campusrobots, auf keinen Fall, dann k*nntet ihr euch die ganze Programmierung sparen. Ihr w*hlt das entsprechende Programm mit der Wahl des Programmplatzes und dann dr*ckt ihr auf on und auf gehts.
Robofreaks aus Herten - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/31/2005 15:05:42 GMT
ey das is doch klar aber dann werden auch andere robter gesteuert - Message by: leibniz-robots 11/18/2005 17:36:03 GMT
Tach wie gehts ihr krossen kraben - Message by: leibniz-robots 11/18/2005 17:34:45 GMT
Das darf man doch.is doch klar - Message by: leibniz-robots 10/16/2004 03:14:45 GMT
gjghufisgii
Darf man eine Schwarze Linie aus Lego Steinen bauen auf dem Schiffsfrack das der Roboter der Schwarzen Liene volgen kann?
Dirk
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/09/2005 09:25:57 GMT
Das k*nnen wir uns nicht vorstellen. wir d*rfen an den Gegebenheiten auf der Platte nichts ver*ndern. Aber fragt doch noch einmal bei FLL selbst nach. Bisher war das absolut nicht erlaubt.
Robofreaks - Message by: Nautilus1 11/17/2005 15:33:37 GMT
Nein das w*rde ich nicht sagen denn man darf ja nichts ver*ndern...
Wei* jemand wo genau der Delfin hin geh*rt? Auf der Zeichnung sieht es so aus als ob der auf der Kante des Tisches steht.
- Message by: RoPoly2062 10/12/2005 16:59:24 GMT
ER geh*rt auch auf die kante weil beim tunier zwei tische beisammen stehen - Message by: Lagrobots 10/17/2005 14:54:49 GMT
die genauen mase, wo er sein muss. .also welcher abstand steht in der aufbau anleitung ich glaube es waren von der rechten kante 1181mm.. bin mir aber nicht mehr sicher, kannst ja ma nachgucken... - Message by: Woinem Robonnics 10/28/2005 15:57:16 GMT
Klar: es stehen ja zwei Tische nebeneinander, der Delfin liegt genau in der Mitte auf beiden Kanten. Da ihr nur einen Tisch habt empfiehlt es sich, die Umrandung durch eine gleichdicke Leiste zu verdoppeln.
wie geh*ren die fahnen aufgestelllt so das sie sich nicht gegenseitig wieder umschmei*en
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/12/2005 18:11:50 GMT
Das ist ja gerade die Schwierigkeit. Sie haben sie extra so angeordnet, dass man wohl kaum von vorn einfach nach hinten fahren kann. Aber es geht.
Robofreaks aus Herten - Message by: Oceans Eleven 10/13/2005 12:39:35 GMT
Fangt doch einfach von hinten an!
Gruss Oceans Eleven aus Stadtlohn - Message by: Lagrobots 10/17/2005 14:56:57 GMT
aber wenn man von hinten abf*ngt, ist doch das Problem, dass man immer wieder entweder um die eine Fahne rumfahrn muss oder irgendwie anders ausweichen, damit man sie net wieder umschmei*t! - Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/22/2005 08:47:55 GMT
Aber f*r eine Fahne bekommt ihr doch schon 30 Punkte. Und ihr wisst doch gar nicht, ob ihr noch gen*gend Zeit f*r eine Reihe habt. Deshalb unser Tipp, aus 3 Jahren Erfahrung heraus: Bevor ihr da noch irre lange dran herumt*ftelt, macht erst einmal einen Durchgang und messt die Zeit. Und dann ist n*mlich die Frage, ob man irgendeine andere Aufgabe nimmt, wie den Hai usw. Aber zwischendurch einmal Probel*ufe machen, ist ganz wichtig!!! - Message by: leibniz-robots 11/12/2005 16:53:51 GMT
Erledigt doch erst die anderen Aufgaben ,wenn man dann noch Zeit f*r andere Aufgaben hat,kann man sie von mir aus machen.Kostet auf jeden Fall zu viel Zeit.
Hallo an alle
Ich habe eine Frage: Reicht es, wenn z.B. der Container die gr*ne Base ber*hrt und auch etwas so drinnen ist, aber nicht komplett, z*hlt das als in der Base, oder muss der vollst*ndig in der Base sein?
Auch eine Frage: Z*hlt das auch f*r den Roboter, der zum Umbau vollst*ndig drinnen sein muss, oder kann auch noch etwas rausragen, da ja diesmal die Base leider so klein ist.
Und m*ssen Alle sachen zum Umbau sich am Anfang in der Base befinden?
Nonnbots von der Insel
- Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/13/2005 18:54:02 GMT
In the German "Regeln" on the web at http://www.firstlegoleague.org/hot/ it describes what base is. Also, there is always this:
F*r offizielle Antworten zu Fragen jeglicher Bereiche des Wettbewerbs, einschliesslich Voraus-Regelungen *ber spezielle Strategien oder Situationen, schickt eine Email an FLL@hands-on-technology.de. Bitte gebt als Betreff "Ocean Odyssey" an und benennt eure Rolle im FLL-Team (Mitglied, Coach, Elternteil, Mentor). Wichtige Fragen werden im "Fragen & Antworten"-Bereich f*r alle Teams ver*ffentlicht.
-Laura - Message by: sap-gang11 11/04/2005 20:55:13 GMT
Hallo
kann mir jemand sagen wo ich die Abbildungen finden kann auf die in den Regeln unter 13- Startposition verwiesen wird. Ich w*rde gerne sehen wollen was 'Startposition komplett in der Base' hei*t.
Welche Hilfsmittel stehen or Rot bur Verf*gung?
Die Presentation dauert 5 Minute. Werden auch Plakate mitbewertet? K*nnen diese irgendwo aufgeh*ngt werden?
Liebe Gr**e
Legomatiker
- Message by: chaosdesigner1091 10/13/2005 20:33:51 GMT
Was meinst du alles f*r Hilfsmittel? - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/13/2005 21:02:56 GMT
Posters are useful to help your team tell the story. Also posters are good for teamwork and robot technical.
-Laura
Darf man die fernbedinung in der base bunutzen wenn man zum beispiel einen kran runter lassen will
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/17/2005 17:18:12 GMT
D*rft ihr nicht, wir haben nachgefragt. Ist ein weiteres elektronisches Hilfsmittel. - Message by: aquabots2038 11/14/2005 19:15:51 GMT
Ja ich hab geh*rt das man das nicht darf
darf man in der base eine ern bedinung benutzen zum beispiel um einen kran runter zu lassen
- Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/22/2005 12:47:13 GMT
Hallo
Nein Fernbedienungen sind verboten aber es gibt eine L*sung bringt einfach eine Ber*hrungs Sensor an eurern Robotor an den K*nnt ihr dann bet*ttigen und dann geht der Arm z.B runter kostet nat*hlich einen Sensor der im Wettbewerb fehlt.
darf ein anderer einspringen wenn jemand aus meinen team krank ist und ich nicht redestriert bin
- Message by: MagicCreators1137 10/24/2005 15:42:59 GMT
NEIN NIEMALS SONST WERDET IHR DISQUALIFIZIERT!!!
Euer Tarik
Magic Creators rule - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/26/2005 15:33:49 GMT
WAS ICH VERSTEH DICH NICHT
PS. Rumschreien Verboten
darf ein anderer einspringen wen jemand aus meinen team krank ist und ich nicht redestriert bin
Hallo, eine Frage von Prof.Pi*s Kid*s.
Wann wird die Pipeline geschlossen? Im Spiel oder am Schlu* des Spieles ?
Und noch eine. Welche Position haben die Fische und der Hai?
Stehen sie genau in der Markierung( der Kopf ragt etwas vor )oder schlie*t der Kopf mit der Markierung ab.
Viel Erfolg allen die das Forum besuchen.
Prof.Pi*s Kid*s
- Message by: TrittauTeam1067 10/22/2005 20:48:56 GMT
Die Pipeline kann man schlie*en, wann man will. Es ist aber besser, man macht es gleich, nachdem das Zentralteil eingeschoben wurde.
Ich meine, die Fische haben doch einen "eckigen Bauch", der muss auf der Markierung stehen. - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/24/2005 16:57:45 GMT
keine Ahnung
Hi,
We are a team in Bozeman, USA. Right now, 2 of our members are in Switzerland. Are there any teams close to Neuchatel, so they can come and visit during the next few month?
Best,
Alex
- Message by: SAP Unterwasserroboter 10/29/2005 14:56:52 GMT
Now, we are in Z*rich ! - Message by: aquabots2038 11/14/2005 19:19:06 GMT
We are in Zug
Hallo
Wir schlagen uns mit der Ungenauigkeit des Roboters herum. Wir k*nnen dasselbe Programm mehrere Male laufen lassen, der Roboter landet aber immer an einem andern Ort.
Hat mir jemand Tipps, wie man dem begegnen kann?
Andernfalls doktern wir immer nur an den ersten Schritten der Aufgabe herum....
Danke!
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/18/2005 18:22:23 GMT
Habt ihr schon einmal die Batterien kontrolliert? Meistens ist es so, dass sie dann zu schwach sind. Und wenn ihr mit Zeit arbeitet merkt man das noch viel schlimmer. Bei uns schauen wir jedenfalls als erstes nach den Batterien. Aber wir k*nnen euch tr*sten. Es passiert immer wieder bei uns, dass der Roboter heute macht, was wir wollen, wir schlie**n den Raum ab, kommen am n*chsten Tag wieder herein und es funktioniert irgendwie alles nicht mehr so wie ein Tag vorher. Kennen wir alles. - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/22/2005 15:17:27 GMT
arbeitet am besten mit Sensoren wie Umdrehungssensoren das ist relativ sicher und w*hlt nicht eine so gro*e Motor *bersetzung da dies auch ungenauigkeiten hervorruft
rage:
Was passiert wen air gr*nen fish bewegen
- Message by: Underground Tuner 10/25/2005 16:48:07 GMT
keine Punkte ihr d*del - Message by: Underground Tuner 10/25/2005 16:54:32 GMT
Ist doch wohl klar steht in den Wettbewerbsregeln...
_________________________
LMS Tuner [Team Underground Tuner] - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 11/08/2005 14:48:51 GMT
Haltet die klappe und beantwortet die fargen gescheit
Hallo, wir haben ein Problem mit der Stabilit*t unseres Programms, welches wir im RIS 2.0 entwickeln und auf den RCX laden. Unter nach besten Kr*ften identisch gehaltenen Randbedingungen f*hrt der RCX nach ca. einer halben Minute einen "Eigenen Block" mal aus und mal nicht. Der nachfolgende Block wird aber auf jeden Fall ausgef*hrt. Das Programm ist absolut linear, keine Nebenl*ufigkeiten durch Sensor-Ereignisse, oder so. Hat jemand schon mal einen *hnlichen Effekt gehabt und vielleicht sogar eine L*sung oder einen Tipp f*r uns?
- Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/31/2005 14:41:04 GMT
Hallo.. wirt k*nnen es nicht gernaU BEANTWORTEN ABER IHR M*SSTET MAL DIE FIRMWRE NEU *BERTRAGEN :::::ODER IHR HABT DAS PROGRAMM 1.5 und der roboter die version 2.0 ..wir k*nnen uns das anders ncih erkl*rem
Die Krossen Krabben - Message by: P-Sea1078 10/31/2005 16:56:01 GMT
Nein, die Versionen passen perfekt zueinander. Es gibt aber auch manchmal *hnliche Probleme mit Robolab. Ist total *rgerlich. Wenn man das Programm etwas umstellt, oder zur Kontrolle einen Signalton einbaut, klappt es wieder.
Sieht nach einem Software-Problem aus, glaube ich.
Gibt es in Linz Beamer und eine Leinwand .
Und gen*gent Platz f*r diese zwei Dinge??????
- Message by: leibniz-robots 11/09/2005 18:14:50 GMT
Dan m*sst ihr die Wettbewrbsleitung fragen
Gibt es in Linz Beamer und eine Leinwand .
Und gen*gent Platz f*r diese zwei Dinge??????
Gibt es beim Tunier einen Beamer, Leinwand und gen*gent Platz f*r alles???????????
Gibt es beim Tunier einen Beamer, Leinwand und gen*gent Platz f*r alles???????????
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/21/2005 20:55:49 GMT
Warum fragt ihr nicht bei dem Veranstalter nach, genau dort, wohin ihr fahrt? - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/22/2005 12:52:48 GMT
Hallo
Normalerweise sind beamer und Leinwand vorhanden. - Message by: Legomatiker 10/27/2005 09:25:03 GMT
Habe bereits vor einer Woche beim Veranstalter nachgefragt aber noch keine Antwort bekommen.
Mich w*rde auch interessieren ob es Schautafeln gibt, wie gro* diese sind, die genaue Adr. des Veranstaltungsortes.
Weiters ist f*r uns nicht ganz klar, ob wir das Spielfeld fix und fertig vorfinden oder unser eigenes Spielfeld aufbauen m*ssen. - Message by: Legomania 10/27/2005 15:47:10 GMT
das spielfeld ist normalerweise auf dem wettbewerbstisch(en) und *bungstisch(en) fix und fertig. wir haben zumindest nichts anderes mitbekommen waren aber letztes jahr zum ersten mal dabei. - Message by: 11/04/2005 17:59:25 GMT
Deleted
Hallo
Darf man den RCX mit 2 verschiedenen Unterteilen fahren lassen. bzw.w*hrend des Laufes wechseln?
Hallo
Darf man den RCX mit 2 verschiedenen Unterteilen fahren lassen. bzw.w*hrend des Laufes wechseln?
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/22/2005 18:29:13 GMT
Das ist nach unserer Meinung fast unm*glich. Denn ihr d*rft insgesamt, bei allen Teilen des roboters, auch bei den zwei Unterbauten, nur 3 Motoren benutzen. Kommt ihr denn mit insgesamt 3 Motoren bei beiden Unterteilen und dann auch noch bei allen Aufbauten aus? - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/24/2005 16:54:35 GMT
N* Danke Aber
Hallo,
wir sind eine franz*sischsprechende Gruppe (zwei Ausnahmen). Spielt die Sprache in Yverdon bei der Jury eine Rolle? z.B. f*r die Teamvorstellung etc? Was passiert wenn wir nach Leipzig d*rften?
- Message by: chaosdesigner1091 10/25/2005 08:03:55 GMT
Ich denke, dass ihr in Yverdon mit Franz*sisch keine Probleme haben werdet, weil sich ja dort ausschlie*lich franz*sische teams angemeldet haben.
Wie es in Leipzig sein wird, wei* ich nicht.
Allerdings wird deutsch bestimmt nicht die einzige Sprache sein, da ja auch Teams aus Ungarn mitmachen werden.
Fragt doch einfach mal bei Hands-on-Technology nach.
Hallo,
wenn der Roboter sich w*hrend einem Lauf "todgelaufen" hat oder blockiert ist, darf man ihn von Hand in die Base zur*cknehmen um Korrekturen anzubringen?
- Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/22/2005 15:11:20 GMT
Morgen Kids
Ja das darf man aber f*r jedes mal weg nehmen wird eine Kiste weggenommen. Die Punkte fehlen dann.
Hallo,
Wenn der Roboter so programmiert ist, dass er w*hrend des Laufes in die Base zur*ckf*hrt, darf mann dann Aenderungen an ihm vornehen und ihn wieder auf die Reise schicken?
- Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/22/2005 15:13:03 GMT
ja Klar in der Base darf mann das - Message by: Lagrobots 10/26/2005 13:09:28 GMT
Hallo,
ja man darf das, ihr m*sst aber bedenken das ihr insgesamt nur
2,5 min zeit habt und die l*uft weiter auch wenn der Roboter in der Base ist und umgebaut wird!!!
mfg
Lagrobots
Hallo,
wir haben probleme, dass der optische F*hler der schwarzen Linie folgt. Sind die Lichtverh*ltnisse so entscheidend?
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 10/23/2005 16:42:34 GMT
Ihr k*nnte auch alles mit Rotationssensoren machen, aber es ist schon sehr sinnvoll, wenn der Roboter zwischendurch sich an einer schwarzen Linie orientiert. Dann habt ihr die Gew*hr, dass er von diesem Punkt aus so weitermacht wie geplant. Rotation allein ist nicht 100%ig sicher, nach unseren Erfahrungen. Aber ihr habt doch auch noch den Ber*hrungssensor.
Robofreaks Herten - Message by: CAMPUS.robot1014 11/17/2005 11:19:01 GMT
also bei uns ist der optische und der tast sensor der mittelpunkt des programms...bei uns ist das gleiche problem. Falls die lichtwerte so extrem anders sind w*rde es bei uns auch nicht funktionieren, aber vorort sind nochmal zwei extra tische zum probieren, sprich man ja einfach die werte dementsprechend *ndern und somit kein problem :)
gru* CAMPUS.robot
Wie lange muss denn eigentlich die Forschungsaufgabe sein???
Wie lang darf und soll sie sein??
Mfg. Desperados
- Message by: Legomatiker 10/27/2005 09:26:29 GMT
Im Handbuch steht, dass der Vortrag nur 5 Minuten dauern soll.
Hoffe, dass dies stimmt, da unserer nicht l*nger dauert. - Message by: leibniz-robots 11/09/2005 18:08:42 GMT
Re sollte chon ungef*hr 5 Minute brauchen ad 5 Minute bur ungef*hres Zeitlimit sit. - Message by: pgh2006 11/22/2005 18:24:10 GMT
Wir auch
Ist es erlaubt den Roboter, wenn ein Programm l*uft, er aber im Laufe dieses Programms in die Base kommt, auf einen Ber*hrungssensor zu dr*cken, damit er weiter f*hrt?
- Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/26/2005 15:27:15 GMT
Das ist Erlaubt den in den Regeln steht das der Roboter in der Base ber*hrt werden darf - Message by: JSGProfs1072 10/28/2005 14:28:11 GMT
Somit ist es auch erlaubt, den Roboter, nachdem er in die Base zur*ckgekehrt ist, umzubauen, in Position zu bringen und den Sensor zu dr*cken, damit er die Base wieder verl*sst, W*HREND das Programm weiter l*uft? - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/28/2005 15:16:54 GMT
Ja klar in der Base ist fast alles erlaubt
Hat der graue Fisch evtl. in einem Wettbewerbsspiel eine andere Position (Im Austausch f*r einen gr*nen Fisch)?
Gru*
Oceans Eleven
- Message by: Legomania 11/07/2005 15:55:55 GMT
es ist eindeutig auf der matte beschrieben wo der fisch zu stehen hat...
P.S.:f*r so fragen empfehle ich die kontaktemailaddresse da kriegt man solche fragen sicher beantwortet.
wie hoch ist die base im spiel?ist sie nwirklich cm hoch?
gru*
oceans robots
wie hoch ist die base im spiel?ist sie wirklich 40cm hoch?
gru*
oceans robots
- Message by: Nautilus1 11/18/2005 13:38:30 GMT
ja sie ist wirklich 40cm hoch
ist die base bis zum sand oder bis zum gras?
gru*
oceans eleven
- Message by: 10/29/2005 12:27:26 GMT
Deleted
an dem schiff ist ein loch ohne reling.darf man das u-boot auch an dieser stelle ins wasser herunterlassen?
gru*
oceans eleven
an dem schiff ist ein loch ohne reling.darf man das u-boot auch an dieser stelle ins wasser herunterlassen?
gru*
oceans eleven
- Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/26/2005 15:24:14 GMT
Schut doch mal in den Regel nach da hei*t es deutlich !!! *ber !!! die Reling - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/29/2005 13:07:10 GMT
DA HAT DIESER WEISE JUNGE RECHT. SCHAUT IN DEN REGELN NACH
Hallo erstmal,
Wir wollten mal wissen gro* darf den der Roboter in der H*he und L*nge sein??
Und wie sicht es mit den Sensoren aus??
Darf ein Drucksensor hergenommen werden?
mfg
aus Tirol
- Message by: Woinem Robonnics 10/28/2005 16:00:28 GMT
Drucksensor? Ich denke ihr meint Tastsensor: selbstverst*ndlich erlaubt. Der Roboter muss in die dieses Jahr dreieckige Base passen. Zieht gedachte W*nde vom Rand der Base hoch, es darf nichts(!!) *berstehen. Die Maximalh*he ist 40 cm, aber so hoch baut niemand. Mein Tipp: den Roboter nicht zu gro* machen! - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/29/2005 12:26:20 GMT
was hei*t so hoch baut keiner. Wir sind knapp an der Grenze. - Message by: RoPoly2062 11/09/2005 17:18:45 GMT
wir kommen *ber 20cm h*he
Wir haben bei unserem Roboter das er auf der Matte rutscht.
Liegt das an den R*dern oder daran das die Matte so gewellt ist
oder das die Matte rutschig ist ?
- Message by: RoPoly2062 11/09/2005 15:10:03 GMT
wenn ihr in st*ndig von der selben stelle abfahren l*sst kann es sein das es an der batterie liegt das sie immer schw*cher wird - Message by: flu 11/10/2005 14:20:21 GMT
kauft der ne neue batterie du, hast du net genug kohle????
oder sagt eurem leiter er soll welche kaufen. der soll net so geizig sein
z*hlen motoren die aufeinander stecken,als ein motor?
- Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/29/2005 12:22:20 GMT
Nein !ein! Motor ist !ein! motor
gibt es extra punkte,wenn der roboter von selbst die pipeline um legt?
gru*
oceans eleven
- Message by: Die krossen Krabben 10/29/2005 12:21:28 GMT
Nein das steht doch nich in den Regeln seit ihr Blind - Message by: flu 11/10/2005 14:17:59 GMT
nat*rlich muss der roboter die PIPELINE allein umlegen steht doch in der Regel, du landratte
Hallo,
die Regeln erlauben doch scheinbar die Verwendung beliebig vieler und beliebig gearteter Lego-Bausteine. Nur die elektrischen und elektromechanischen Bausteine sind vorgeschrieben bzw. begrenzt.
Ist das richtig so?
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 11/01/2005 19:52:56 GMT
Schaut in den Regeln nach. Es muss aber alles Lego bzw*. Lego technik sein. - Message by: Nautilus1 11/17/2005 15:49:16 GMT
Schaut euch das in den Regeln an denn niemand wird es wissen...
Hi ihr,
d*rfen wir das Zielobjekt anfassen, wenn der Roboter noch nicht in der Base ist? Falls z.B. der Arm zu lange ist. Eingefahren passt er aber in die Base.
Mfg Gyronics
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 11/02/2005 21:37:52 GMT
Ihr d*rft erst den Roboter anfassen, wenn er deutlich mit einem Teil in der Base ist. - Message by: Mission Impossible 11/19/2005 14:38:52 GMT
Heisst das ueber 50% oder ueber mehr Prozent?
Bitte eine genaue Prozentzahl!
Mission impossible!?!1177
Hi,
darf man um die Schatzkiste etwas herumbauen, dass sie aber nicht ber*hrt und als strategisches Objekt f*r den Roboter die Aufgabe sehr erleichtert.
Mfg Gyronics
- Message by: Lagrobots 11/04/2005 14:25:18 GMT
Ich kann mir net vorstellen, dass man das darf.... - Message by: Die krossen Krabben 11/04/2005 14:28:27 GMT
Ja aber die dieserkasten muss vom Roboter selber an die Stelle gebracht werden. Also mit Hand hinlegen is nich.
Wir habe des *fteren das Problem, da* sich ein fr*her erstelltes Programm nicht mehr erweitern l**t. Man kann zwar Programmschritte aus dem Ablauf entfernen, aber anschlie*end nicht wieder einf*gen. Manchmal kann man nur bestimmte eigene Bl*cke wieder einf*gen, andere aber nicht.
Kennt irgendjemand das Problem oder die L*sung dazu?
- Message by: Mission Impossible 11/19/2005 14:36:10 GMT
Das Problem ist: Es ist nur eine bestimmte Anzahl von gr. oder kl. Bloecken zul*ssig. Wenn die Zahl ueberschritten wird, kann nichts mehr hinzugefuegt werden.
Loesung:
- Am Ende des Anfangsstapels einfuegen: "Einstellen *Variable* an 1"
-Einen zweiten Stapel machen mit dem Anfang: Wenn *Variable* =1 dann...
Mission impossible!?!1177
Hallo
kann mir jemand sagen wo ich die Abbildungen finden kann auf die in den Regeln unter 13- Startposition verwiesen wird. Ich w*rde gerne sehen wollen was 'Startposition komplett in der Base' hei*t.
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 11/05/2005 19:57:55 GMT
D.h. der ganze Roboter, einschlie*lich s*mtlicher Aufbauten, die bei dem speziellen Lauf angebaut worden sind, muss innerhalb der Base sein, es darf kein Bestandteil drau*en sein!
Hallo air warden genre wissen wieviel Aufgaben ihr berets erledigt hat. Weiterhin w*rden wir gerne wissen wie ihr euren Roboter tunet.
- Message by: pgh2006 11/22/2005 18:12:15 GMT
Wir haben alle Aufgaben bis auf das U-Boot, d*rfte aber auch kein Problem sein mit unserem fliegenden Roboter.
PS: Kann man noch Zusatzaufgabe machen, wenn noch zu viel Zeit ist?
Hallo wir w*rden gerne wissen wie weit ihr mit den Aufgaben seid. Informiert uns auch *ber euer Tuning.(Ihr k*nnt uns ein paar tipps geben.)
- Message by: leibniz-robots 11/11/2005 18:48:42 GMT
Wir sind schon total fertig mit den Aufgaben!!!!
Loser!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Message by: pgh2006 11/22/2005 18:14:07 GMT
Wir haben hinten kleine Raketend*sen angebaut, das geht ganz gut. Manchmal hebt er sogar ab und fliegt bis zum Mond.
noch ma herzlichen gl*ckwunsch an die d subbs! habt ihr voll verdient!
- Message by: flu 11/13/2005 12:22:30 GMT
ja und wir die LEGO-Flundern sind stolz auf unseren 6. platz und auf unseren preis f*r die beste ausdauer!!!!!
Hi Leute,
ist die Benutzung anderer LEGO Motoren und Bausteine erlaubt?
Bitte antworter m*glichst schnell!!!
Die SAP Leibniz-Robots :-)
- Message by: Nautilus1 11/12/2005 11:46:39 GMT
Andere Motoren sind nicht erlaubt, aber andere Bausteine schon.Wir freuen uns schon auf den Wettkampf....... - Message by: leibniz-robots 11/12/2005 12:41:39 GMT
Danke Nautilus 1 f*r eure Antwort! Wir sehen uns in Rockenhausen. Bis zum Mi den 23.
Die SAP Leibniz-Robots :-) - Message by: pgh2006 11/22/2005 18:23:33 GMT
Nein
Hi Leute,
geh*rt der helle Strand auch zur BASE und darf der Roboter dort starten??? Bitte antwortet SEHR schnell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Die SAP Leibniz-Robots :-)
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 11/12/2005 19:11:41 GMT
Nein, nur die dunkelgr*ne Fl*che geh*rt zur Base, das andere nicht. Das haben wir auch gedacht, dann aber in Paderborn gesehen, dass es falsch war.
Hallo
Muss man das U-Boot auf dem Forschungsschiff fest machen, also andr*cken ?????
SAP Leibniz Robots ;-)
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 11/12/2005 19:10:55 GMT
Das U-Boot steht locker, aber gleichzeitig fest in der Aussparung auf der Platte. Dann kann es auch hochgehoben werden. Die Legosteine sitzen nicht fest auf der Platte. Geht doch auch nicht.
- Message by: leibniz-robots 11/15/2005 18:36:57 GMT
Delphin
leibniz-robots - 04:50pm Nov 15, 2005
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You cannot rewrite history, but you will have 30 minutes to make any changes or fixes after you post a message. Just click on the Edit button which follows your message after you post it. - Message by: leibniz-robots 11/15/2005 18:38:55 GMT
schreibt ers mal was damit wir euch antworten k*nnen !!!
P.S.:LOSER
Hallo,
wir w*rden gerne wissen wie hoch die Base ist. Kann uns das einer sagen??? Und d*rfen wir etwas aus dem Spielfeld entfernen wenn es in der Base ist z.B Kontainer, Schatztruhe usw.
- Message by: Nautilus1 11/18/2005 13:41:33 GMT
die base ist 40cm hoch das andere wissen wir leider auch nicht
Hallo,
Darf man Sachen aus her Base bzw. Spielfeld nehmen.
Und wie hoch ist die Base???
- Message by: Robofreaks 1003 11/16/2005 21:54:42 GMT
Die Base ist ca. 40 cm hoch. Vom Spielfeld d*rft ihr nichts herausnehmen. - Message by: Mission Impossible 11/19/2005 14:32:20 GMT
Wie ist das jetzt?
In "Darf man Zielobjekte in der Base entladen?" Kann man eventuell falsch verstehen, ob man Sachen, wie z.B. das Riff vom Spielfeldtisch entfernen kann.
Manchmal ist die Base auch zu klein.
Hallo Leute,
st*rtzt ihr euch zuerst auf die 'Delfin befreien'?
Mailt uns bitte ob ihr diese Konkurenzaufgabe zuerst erledigt.
Die SAP Leibniz-Robots ;-)
- Message by: gyronics2081 11/18/2005 22:32:19 GMT
Geht erst auf den Delfin, bevor er weg ist. Wir sind auch erst auf die Pipline geganen und dann zum Delfin. Das war ein Fehler. Aber ansonsten hats Spass gemacht. Viel Gl*ck noch
mfg Gyronics - Message by: RoPoly2062 11/19/2005 12:16:15 GMT
Delphin ist das einfachste deswegen macht es jeder am anfang
Bleiben die erledigten Aufgaben dann auf dem Feld liegen,oder
werden sie jedes mal neu ausgerichtet?Bitte schreibt uns im Laufe des Tages zur*ck.
- Message by: RoPoly2062 11/19/2005 12:14:35 GMT
nach den 2 einhalb minuten werden die punkte zusammen gez*hlt danach wird alles wieder aufgestellt
Hallo!
Kann einer von euch sagen, was besser ist: Robolab oder RIS 2.0
Unser Team benutzt RIS 2.0, lohnt sich ein Umstieg auf Robolab?
Mission impossible!?!1177
Hallo ihr, eine schnelle Frage:
Stromkabel oder Batterie/Akku???
Mission impossible!?!1177
- Message by: pgh2006 11/22/2005 18:22:50 GMT
Batterie
Folder: - FRANCE - [for French members] 04/26/2006 21:06:51 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns France in this folder.
Discussion: sujet 2005 By: DAX 01/24/2006 15:10:32 GMT
Les *quipes en France peuvent travailler sur une question en rapport avec les oc*ans mais plus g*n*ralment avec l'EAU. Les *quipes inscrite en France qui ont acc*s au Forum pourraient-elles indiquer leur sujet d'expos* ?
pour Dax Dussarrat (40) comment mieux comprendre les probl*mes li*s * l'exploitation de l'eau : "les m*tiers de l'Eau".
- Message by: 09/20/2005 18:56:19 GMT
Deleted - Message by: Montfort-Robot17 09/22/2005 15:40:24 GMT
Sujet *tudi* par le groupe Montfort-Robot du coll*ge Serge Barranx 40380 Montfort-en-Chalosse : le lagunage ou l'*puration *cologique de l'eau par les plantes. - Message by: 09/23/2005 16:41:44 GMT
Deleted - Message by: 09/23/2005 16:42:07 GMT
Deleted - Message by: 09/23/2005 16:51:47 GMT
Deleted - Message by: 09/26/2005 22:25:17 GMT
Deleted - Message by: vhugo2 10/03/2005 22:09:29 GMT
nous pensons avoir trouv* le th*me de notre rapport (coll*ge VH nevers), on peut le donner, le nom ? - Message by: DAX 10/13/2005 12:54:33 GMT
bien s*r ! - Message by: 10/21/2005 16:58:05 GMT
Deleted - Message by: Yellow team 01/24/2006 15:09:18 GMT
Peut on m*langer 2 bo*tes de ROBOTIC INVENTION - Message by: Yellow team 01/24/2006 15:10:32 GMT
Y-a-t-il un ordre au mission. Si non peut on commencer par la mission ou il faut relacher le dauphin
Pour la mission sous marin , nous devons faire partir le robot de quel endroit de la piste ? Et nous devons emmener le sous marin * quel endroit ?
- Message by: Montfort-Robot17 10/12/2005 11:04:54 GMT
Bonjour,
Le sous marin doit *tre d*pos* dans une zone bleue, bleu comme le bleu o* est pos* le bateau. - Message by: DAX 10/13/2005 12:49:29 GMT
Attention, toutes les parties en bleu de la piste sont correctes. - Message by: crobotic29 01/24/2006 16:44:14 GMT
a t'on le droit de ramener le sous-marin * la base pour ensuite le poser sur la piste? - Message by: Montfort-Robot17 01/25/2006 08:37:02 GMT
No Problem
Mon nom est Skye Sweeney et je suis un volontaire pour FIRST. Je fais une animation qui est employ*e aux tournois pour expliquer les r*gles aux assistances. La musique pour le film de cette ann*e sera une s*rie de Chants de Marins. J'essaye de trouver des chant de marins des pays autres que les Etats-Unis. Ils doivent *tre des chansons qui seraient connues aux *tudiants. N'importe quelle aide en fournissant des titres de chanson ou m*me des dossiers du MIDI serait tr*s bienvenue.
My name is Skye Sweeney and I am a volunteer for FIRST. I make an animation that is used at the tournaments to explain the rules to the audience. The music for this year's movie will be a series of Sea Chanties. I am trying to find sea chanties from countries other than the USA. They need to be songs that would be known to the students. Any help in providing song titles or even MIDI files would be very welcome.
-Skye
Le dauphin doit-il obligatoirement tomber sur le ventre pour b*n*ficier des points ?
- Message by: fll-freak 11/03/2005 15:39:51 GMT
Non, Le dauphin peux touche le blue seulement avec le nez pour avoir les points.
Pardon, mom Francais est tres mouvais!
-Skye
Le dauphin doit-il obligatoirement tomber sur le ventre pour b*n*ficier des points ?
- Message by: 11/03/2005 14:46:48 GMT
Deleted - Message by: DAX 11/17/2005 14:28:52 GMT
Non il doit seulement tomber dans le bleu fonc*
est-ce que 1 drapeau lever=
1=30pts
2=30 ou 60pts
- Message by: Montfort-Robot17 11/08/2005 12:59:25 GMT
Bonjour,
1 seul drapeau lev* = 30 points.
Vous aurez :
* 15 points de plus si tous les drapeaux d'une rang*e sont lev*s,
* 30 points de plus si tous les drapeaux de 2 rang*es sont lev*s,
* 45 points de plus si tous les drapeaux sont lev*s. - Message by: FASA30 12/01/2005 14:15:46 GMT
Donc, le 2*me drapeau ne vaut pas 30 points de plus ? (Juste pour *tre s*r...)
Et pour faire une rang*e, on doit avoir lev* TOUS les drapeux * la fin ou juste avoir pouss* la barre ? Car lorsque l'on pousse le drapeau suivant il abaisse le pr*c*dent...
Devons-nous le relever ?? - Message by: Montfort-Robot17 12/05/2005 08:41:43 GMT
Et c'est l* la difficult* !
Les drapeaux doivent *tre lev*s * la fin du match ! Donc si un drapeau retombe il n'est pas valid*.
Pour ta premi*re question, un 2* drapeau ne vaut pas 30 points de plus.
Bon courage !
Est-ce que poser une roue sur l'*pave suffit ou en faut-il au moins 2?
- Message by: Montfort-Robot17 11/10/2005 08:56:01 GMT
Qu'entendez-vous par l'*pave ? - Message by: crobotic29 11/10/2005 14:05:35 GMT
Est-ce que poser une roue sur le bateau blanc suffit ou en faut-il en poser au moins 2? - Message by: Montfort-Robot17 11/14/2005 08:42:43 GMT
La r*ponse se trouve dans la partie Question/R*ponse (Q-R) du site. "Le robot doit monter au moins partiellement sur le bateau blanc..." Pour une confirmation absolue utilise le lien de messagerie aide.FLL@wanadoo.fr qui tranchera.
Faut-il que le contener touche la base ou soit enti*rement dans la base ?
- Message by: fll-freak 11/08/2005 15:36:59 GMT
Il faut que le contener simplement entre dans la base.
-Skye - Message by: DAX 11/15/2005 15:32:32 GMT
Oui avec toutes les caisse - Message by: crobotic29 12/05/2005 14:39:46 GMT
Faut-il que le contener soit enti*rement dans la base ? - Message by: DAX 01/25/2006 10:25:11 GMT
Non d*s qu'une partie est entr*e dans la base on peut le prendre * la main. C'est plus facile !
c'est pour savoir comment falait faire pour marquer le requin
- Message by: Montfort-Robot17 11/14/2005 08:43:46 GMT
Tu peux lui d*poser une pi*ce (lego) dessus par exemple. - Message by: FASA30 12/01/2005 14:27:41 GMT
Si elle n'est pas emboit*e et qu'elle tombe quand on d*placera le requin, est-ce qu'on aura marqu* le requin ? - Message by: Montfort-Robot17 12/05/2005 08:44:59 GMT
D'apr*s moi, non !
c'est pour savoir comment il fallait faire pour marquer le requin
- Message by: DAX 01/25/2006 10:24:03 GMT
Il faut le faire bouger et il faut qu'un *l*ment lego (n'importe quoi) soit au contact du requin (l'*tiquette) - Message by: fll-freak 01/25/2006 15:45:44 GMT
Je ne crois pas qu'un *l*ment de lego doit *tre en contact avec le requin. Juste que le requin est hors d'alignement de sa position de d*part.
-Skye - Message by: Montfort-Robot17 01/27/2006 09:32:43 GMT
Il faut savoir ce que "faire bouger" signifie r*ellement. L'emplacement (2 rectangles sur la piste) doit *tre totalement d*couvert.
Ce n'est que notre avis... - Message by: DAX 01/31/2006 21:02:16 GMT
Apr*s question aupr*s du responsable FLL, il est suffisant de faire bouger m*me l*g*rement le requin gris de ses marques sur la piste. D*s que l'on voit les marques noires c'est bon mais cela ne suffit pas, il faut aussi qu'un *l*ment Lego soit au contact du requin ! dessus, * cot* ...
Bonjour les equip de France! Pardon mon horrible francais, mais je suis dans une equipe du Canada et je parle pas le francais tout le temps. Je veux just dire "Bonne Chance!" au tout les equipe...alor...Bonne Chance!
-par Nautilus
- Message by: DAX 01/31/2006 21:03:32 GMT
merci les cousins
Savez-vous qui nous sommes?
- Message by: DAX 01/25/2006 10:22:56 GMT
qui *tes vous ? ;-) - Message by: crobotic29 01/25/2006 17:45:15 GMT
a t'on le droit d'utiliser un carton ou une poche pour y mettre les inventions? - Message by: fll-freak 01/25/2006 19:31:37 GMT
Oui vous pouvez utiliser une bo*te pour d*placer votre *quipement autour. Mais il ne peut *tre employ* sur la table de FLL. La restriction de LEGO doit finir quelque part. Si pas, vos v*tements devraient *tre LEGO !
-Skye
Savez-vous qui nous sommes?
avons nous le droit d'ajouter une feuille de paper sur notre robot?
Folder: - ISRAEL - [for Israeli members] 08/09/2005 08:55:36 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Israel in this folder.
Folder: - JAPAN - [for Japanese members] 08/09/2005 08:44:40 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Japan in this folder.
Folder: - JFLL Junior FIRST LEGO League Discussions 11/17/2006 19:43:01 GMT
Use this folder to discuss JFLL ideas, programs and initiatives
Discussion: Ideas By: Limit Busters 198 11/17/2006 19:43:01 GMT
I would love to have some pictures of past projects. We have a new JFLL team and are somewhat unsure of how to proceed.
- Message by: NANOGENESIS12002 11/17/2006 19:43:01 GMT
saludos de nanogenesis y q sea una competencia limpia XD
Folder: - KOREA - [for Korean members] 08/09/2005 08:48:09 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Korea in this folder.
Folder: - MEXICO - [for Mexican members] 11/22/2005 02:24:40 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Mexico in this folder.
Folder: Comunicados Generales a Equipos Mexicanos 10/19/2005 00:10:00 GMT
Bienvenidos Equipos FLL M*xico!
Este foro ser* de gran utilidad para todos, sobre todo por las posibilidades que tienen de comunicarse con los equipos del resto del mundo.
Todos pueden entrar a las secciones de los dem*s pa*ses para contactar otros equipos, intercambiar ideas, etc..
Les recordamos que el privilegio de participar en este foro se puede revocar si se falta a lsa buenas costumbres, moral, educaci*n o si hay comentarios discriminatorios.
Siempre deben estar acompa*ados por un adulto al entrar al foro.
Nuestros mejores deseos a todos!
Discussion: pipeline o ductos By: manaties 10/17/2005 02:02:50 GMT
Ya armamos todo el tapete y la linea de ducto al aplicar la fuerza manual los ejes de medida 4 no le alcanzan a empujar para levantar las banderas quiere decir que estan cortas.
Nos pueden ayudar?
- Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/27/2005 18:34:50 GMT
Have you read the Instrucciones de Montaje del Campo de Juego at http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=18610 . It has a section on the pipeline.
-Laura - Message by: FLL Partner Mexico - EDC Mexico 10/17/2005 02:02:50 GMT
Hi Laura:
Thank you for your support and helpful tips for our teams.
Regards,
Barbara
FLL Operational Partner - Mexico
Queridos Equipos:
Esperamos todos vayan viento en popa con sus robots y proyectos. Recuerden que lo m*s importante es que los chic@s tengas una experiencia positiva, divertida y formativa.
Cualquier duda o apoyo que necesiten, no duden en escribirnos. En las medidas de nuestras posibilidades les contestaremos lo m*s pronto posible.
Para mayor informaci*n o apoyo, les informamos que ofreceremos una sesi*n de orientaci*n general el pr*ximo s*bado de 8:30AM a 10:30AM en nuestras oficinas sitas en Gonzalez de Cossio 6, COl del Valle, M*xico DF. ES INDISPENSABLE QUE RESERVEN SU LUGAR VIA EMAIL a bgomez@edcmexico.org
Las sesiones de orientaci*n SON GRATUITAS.
Saludos,
B*rbara
Explora, descubre y crea, AC
- Message by: azul 10/19/2005 00:10:00 GMT
Gracias, si`podemos ahi estaremos
Saludos
Hola Equipos
Como van con sus retos, nosotros llevamos algunos terminados, pero aun no todos.
Cuales son sus nombres?
Esperamos que lleven un buen avance.
Saludos
)o> )o>
)o> ><)))o>
><)))o>
- Message by: EquipoTIS4440 11/07/2005 09:54:57 GMT
Hola mis amigos!
Me gusto mucho a oir!
Perdoneme, hace veinte anos que estudie' espanol, me falta practica. Pero mi hijo Aaron hable espanol bien. El es estudiante de espanol en Portland Oregon, USA. El tiene diez anos, como los otros personas. Los otros en el equipo se llamado Nan, Camilo, Erick, Will S., Will H., Taylor, Veronica, Cole. Todos hablan espanol y estan en el grado cinco.
Mi computador no tiene los puntuacion correcto. Me lo siento para mi espanol no es bueno. Si quisieras, uno de los estudiantes puede escribir mas? Somos interesado en los equipos otros.
Salud, y un millon de gracias por la noticia.
Susan (Susana)
Todos hablan espanol mas mejor que yo. Si quisieras
EL TIEMPO ES FACTOR? SI UN EQUIPO ACABA EN 1 MINUTO Y OTRO EQUIPO ACABA EN 2 MINUTOS, SI TIENEN LAS MISMAS PRUEBAS COMPLETADAS OBTIENEN LA MISMA PUNTUACION?
Queremos saber si despu*s de cada misi*n debemos regresar a la base * podemos seguir con nuestra siguiente misi*n, desde luego que nosotros podemos dar el orden que queremos a nuestras misiones.
Buen d*a
Saludos desde la ciudad de las flores
- Message by: azul 11/09/2005 01:19:45 GMT
Hasta donde nosotros sabemos, segun se desee se pueden hacer varias misiones o una cada vez que el robot salga de la base. Lo importante es que no se puede tocar el robot hasta que este regrese.
Saludos
PD Donde es la ciudad de las flores?? Xochimilco?? - Message by: ROAMschoolers1498 11/22/2005 02:24:40 GMT
Saludos:
Soy una "entrenadora" nueva, pero tengo entendido que SI se puede tocar el robot en ciertas circunstancias, e.g., para traerlo a la base entre misiones.
Sugiero qu lean bien las reglas...
Buena suerte.
Gina I.
Nueva York
Folder: - SINGAPORE - [for Singapore members] 10/12/2005 05:48:47 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Singapore in this folder.
Folder: ROBOLAB patch 10/12/2005 15:28:47 GMT
Hi all, there's a patch availible for ROBOLAB 2.5.1, 2.5.2 & 2.5.4
Download it from here.
Enjoy and all the best!
Discussion: Thanks for sharing By: fifth-ralpha001 10/12/2005 15:28:47 GMT
Hi, thanks for sharing!
Folder: Rules & Guidelines 11/30/2005 03:49:41 GMT
Discussion: Stimmung! By: MagicCreators1137 11/24/2005 23:01:26 GMT
Was is'n hier los? Wirklich jarnichts? Schreibt doch was!
Do you know which language I have used?
- Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/03/2005 20:00:26 GMT
German. - Message by: shockwave999 11/24/2005 23:01:26 GMT
this has nothing to do with legoleage. ich finde Kunst toll!
The explanation in the Q&A is very unsatisfactory in the context of making a rule. A rule should state exactly where the base ends and the sea begins.
As it is, it is being left to the referee to interpret. I think the referees are going to have a difficult time.
- Message by: SMART 10/06/2005 15:48:59 GMT
One thing to keep in mind is that the robot is now required to completely leave the base before scoring. That will make massive bots that take up the whole base (and maybe a bit more!) less appealing to teams this year as they'll need to get the whole thing out of base before trying to score.
If you think about the CD, glasses and set the table missions from last year - those would definitely be more challenging for teams with very large robots if they had to follow this year's rules.
Also, the base this year is quite large. An extra centimeter or two isn't going to make much of a difference.
Regards,
Peter - Message by: LEC001 10/30/2005 07:40:35 GMT
As the organizer, we will inform the referees to give the benefit of doubt to the teams. A head referee will be on hand to ensure that the rulings are fair and equal to all teams
If the objects for e.g. artificial reef were brought back to base, can they be touched or do they have to left at the base as part of the base?
- Message by: crazycreators304 11/28/2005 06:15:39 GMT
Yes. This is covered by rule 19 on the FLL web site. See also a discussion in this forum at: FLL International Forum - UNITED STATES - [for American members] Rules and Missions Questions - General Questions - Housekeeping.
This should help answer your question. - Message by: BlueRain19 11/30/2005 03:49:41 GMT
Thank you very much. It is very helpful.
Folder: - SKANDINAVIEN - [for Scandinavian members] 10/30/2005 00:28:17 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Scandinavia in this folder.
Discussion: Teori By: TeamSkjomen7 10/30/2005 00:28:17 GMT
er det noen andre lag som har tidevannskraftverk som emne i teorien??
- Message by: TechnoX196 10/20/2005 13:04:59 GMT
Jo, v*rt lag har med det bland annat.
/TechnoX - Message by: Nardo 4H 10/30/2005 00:28:17 GMT
vi har det p* en m*te, vi har en tsunami-maskin!! Vi lager en tsunami, s* tar vi str*m ut av den! www.ifye.org/4hweb/nardo4h
/Nardo 4H ░
Folder: - SOUTH AFRICA - [for South African members] 08/09/2005 08:49:45 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns South Africa in this folder.
Folder: - TAIWAN - [for Taiwanese members] 12/13/2005 06:39:01 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Taiwan in this folder.
Folder: Hi for new comer 12/19/2005 09:29:11 GMT
Hello to Taiwan's participants. I'm Eugene, the coach of UGM-Shark (team name). I wish everyone of you have fun and learn the most from this FLL experience.
Eugene
Discussion: Hi! By: touch_classroom 12/19/2005 09:29:11 GMT
We hope we can learn many things from FLL! This is a whole new experience! Thanks for your help!
Folder: - TURKEY - [for Turkish members] 08/09/2005 08:50:06 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns Turkey in this folder.
Folder: - UNITED KINGDOM - [for UK members] 03/03/2006 20:01:19 GMT
Please post all discussions that concerns UK in this folder.
Folder: BUILDING REPORT!!! 12/03/2005 16:25:18 GMT
I need help on building report!!!
Discussion: what do you mean By: bps05 12/03/2005 16:25:18 GMT
what do you mean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Folder: for first timers 11/15/2005 17:57:33 GMT
this folder is for people who don't have very much experince.
Discussion: light sensors By: BEEPS05 10/03/2005 20:14:34 GMT
how does the reading on the light sensor programing work.
- Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/03/2005 20:14:34 GMT
This is a cool document that may help you.
http://fll-freak.home.comcast.net/misc/01-jgray_report.pdf
-Laura
do the electrical parts have to be minstorms parts, like the motors can they be from a inventor set
- Message by: fll-freak 10/08/2005 17:10:55 GMT
The Q&A has a very specific entry for this question. The answer is that you must use the same motor that comes in a Mindstorms set.
-Skye - Message by: BEEPS05 10/18/2005 14:29:42 GMT
can you not use the motors from a lego in ventor set or the designer sets from the lego cmpanys because with our kit we did not get the 3 lego motors like it decribes - Message by: fll-freak 10/18/2005 14:47:40 GMT
At least in the USA, you are only allowed to use the motors that come with a Mindstorms kit or in the robot kit from FIRST. If you purchased a robot kit from FIRST you should have gotten 3 motors. If you simply purchased a Mindstorms kit at the store, you will only have gotten 2 motors, 1 light sensor, and zero rotation sensors.
The motors that come in the inventor sets I am aware of are not the same as in the Mindstorms set. In many ways the inventor motors are better as they take an external axle.
A quick check of the UK Q&A page indicates that the USA rule on motors is not currently in force in the UK. Not sure what that means! It could mean that the UK page simply did not get updated, or it could mean the inventor motors are ok for use in the UK. I would fire of an email to FIRST (see rule 36) for an opinion.
-Skye - Message by: BEEPS05 10/20/2005 18:04:20 GMT
Kindly, we were given a Lego MindStorm kit by Ford Motor Company, who are sponsoring the event, with BP, in the UK.
The MindStorm kit had 2 motors only, but we have another from a LEGO Inventor kit, purchased privately.
I fail to see why this motor cannot be used. It is factory made LEGO part (OK it work differently, but that is part of the fun !!) and the US rules say you can use any LEGO factory part, meaning FIRST do not need to rule.
Views appreciated. - Message by: fll-freak 10/20/2005 18:09:24 GMT
1) The inventor motor has distinct advantages over the stock motor.
2) The rules say you can only use three motors. The assumption was the three motors you purchased with the FLL robot kit.
3) The USA Q&A specificaly says the only legal motors are those supplied in an FLL kit. But since you are in the UK, you might want to pass this issue past FIRST.
-Skye - Message by: BEEPS05 10/20/2005 18:17:46 GMT
thanks
Will do as you suggest, but, for us first timers, there appear to be so many complicated and conflicting rules !
Also, I suspect you are operating on a different plane to us true amateurs, who want to use motor 3 to raise and lower an extending arm ! - Message by: fll-freak 10/20/2005 18:43:37 GMT
No, I think we are on the same plane. The inventor motor might be a much better choice for arm control than a 'normal' motor. The inventor motor has the ability to take a user axle rather than the short nub. Makes interfacing to it simpler in many applications.
-Skye - Message by: sandsquids 11/15/2005 17:39:09 GMT
yes im a first timer can you send me the rules if u have them thanks..... - Message by: fll-freak 11/15/2005 17:57:33 GMT
They are online here:
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=19490
-Skye - Message by: BEEPS05 10/21/2005 11:00:23 GMT
No, my friend - we are on different planets !
I am working with 9 - 10 year olds, who do not have majors in engineering (yet) and would not know a short nub from a user axle if it came and up and started talking to them !
All they want is for their 3rd motor to turn on, lower a LEGO arm, made of tow 'sticks', knock a flag upright and score some points, then rise again !
As I said, this is the true 'amateur' level of FLL, introducing young people to many, many concepts, for the first time.
We do not have 3 motors from the kit we were given, so if you are banning the Inventor motor, we are not competing on a level playing field. - Message by: fll-freak 10/21/2005 12:49:01 GMT
so if you are banning the Inventor motor, we are not competing on a level playing field.
I do not make the rules. I am just a coach like you. I do have a few more years experience than you, but I started out the same way. I had a bunch of 9-10 year olds that except for my son had never seen Mindstorms.
-Skye "FLL'ers are from Pluto" Sweeney - Message by: BEEPS05 10/21/2005 13:49:05 GMT
quote slightly out of context, my honourable friend !
We'll get hold of a third Mindstorm motor, one way or another !
Sleep well, 'tis late where you are ! - Message by: SMART 10/21/2005 14:47:39 GMT
Not sure about the UK, but you can get brand new motors in the US from the educational division of Lego for $17. Here is a link...
http://www.legoeducation.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=453
I suspect there is an equivalent for your region, perhaps someone can help out?
Bricklink is also available at www.bricklink.com. On there you would have to search for "Mini-Motor 9v" to find the right one. You can find both used and new, but personally I would advise against buying a used motor.
Our team has had motors fail on the day of the competition so my advise if your team budget allows would be to have at least a couple of backup motors.
- Peter - Message by: FLL Partner UK 10/21/2005 15:09:38 GMT
In UK, you can purchase LEGO motors, sensors etc from Commotion http://www.commotiongroup.co.uk/. Please refer to UK Team Resources page of FLL website.
CP - Message by: 10/21/2005 20:36:57 GMT
Deleted - Message by: mm2005 11/08/2005 18:44:02 GMT
you cant use inventer moters because the rules stat that you can use any lego piece besides moterized pieces - Message by: sandsquids 11/11/2005 15:54:42 GMT
im doing tecnol on it and i need a bit of help to program it help - Message by: GMT
Folder: OCEAN ODYESSY RESULTS 03/06/2006 11:41:35 GMT
IS IT JUST ME OR DOES ANYONE ELSE WANT TO FIND OUT THE UK WINNERS OF THE NATIONAL FINAL?
Discussion: WINNERS By: sandbachsurfers354 03/06/2006 11:41:35 GMT
SO, ANY IDEAS ON THE WINNERS OUT THERE?
POST THEM HERE
- Message by: BEEPS05 03/06/2006 11:41:35 GMT
FAO : Chris Proctor,
It would be good to publish who won what on the FLL website, recognizing you will not give the detailed results.
Thanks
Mark Sheard
I was rather worried last night to discover that the UK Q&A page (http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=19510) has rather fewer questions on it than the US Q&A page (http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15920) - does this mean that the interpretation of the rules will differ across the pond?
I've subscribed to the US Q&A but don't have the option available to subscribe to the UK Q&A.
- Message by: BEEPS05 09/22/2005 11:43:51 GMT
For those of us 'first timers' to FLL, some of the US stuff is a tad complex, though useful.
Once I begin to get my mind around the missions, I might join in, but, at the moment, I am struggling with the basics .. and any halp anyone can give would be appreciated. - Message by: oceaneers270 10/10/2005 15:41:18 GMT
The us forum and forum Q&A are really really useful this is the 5th year our school have entered the first lego league we always encourage our team to check out the US forum and they have always picked up lots of help and hints sometimes finding a problem and the solution before we came accross it ! We have also encouraged the kids to join in and say hi to some of the other countries that enter.
Louise Erratt (Coach - New Lodge Surrey) - Message by: FLL Partner UK 10/20/2005 11:24:33 GMT
UK Teams should monitor the USA Q&A page regularly, as the UK Q&A page is NOT updated. There are no differences between the UK and USA rules.
CP - Message by: St Anselms Allstars 11/23/2005 18:14:37 GMT
How do you use the Robolab to be consistent. - Message by: St Anselms Allstars 11/23/2005 18:15:54 GMT
Robolab is quite big. Which setting is the best one to use.
Do you have any ideas about arms, claws and any other stuff?
Post em ere
- Message by: BEEPS05 09/23/2005 09:58:42 GMT
Could I suggest you look at the US Forum - within here there are lots of comments and clarification, particularly from SKYE, the FLL-Freak, who appears to be the FLL rule-maker, guru and central to the processes.
It would appear you can build anything provided you use official, factory produced, LEGO parts, from any era, regardless of whether they were in the pack or not. - Message by: 291 09/26/2005 11:45:32 GMT
what about using a worm gear attached to a axel that rotates and then attaching an arm attachment to that? - Message by: BEEPS05 09/26/2005 22:13:36 GMT
it would appear, as long as it's an official LEGO factory piece, and you do not use more than 3 motors, there are no limits !
This said, if you have a question, the FLL gurus in the US discussion forum are very quick with answers. - Message by: RoboManiacs 09/27/2005 15:28:46 GMT
Our team would welcome any questions about building, programming, or other FLL stuff. If you would like to contact us, you can so it through our coach at mheil@bgcharford.org.
We met the team from New Lodge school in the United Kingdom at the World Festival last year. They were so cool. If we can help any teams over there out let us know.
RoboManiacs
Team #11 - Message by: fll-freak 09/27/2005 21:28:46 GMT
Yikes!
Just as a point of clarification, I am not the rule maker. That job is reserved for the amazing Scott Evans at FIRST. In fact I have no official capacity at FIRST.
-Skye - Message by: oceaneers270 10/10/2005 15:50:24 GMT
Hi RoboManiacs its New Lodge here ! we are made up from a new bunch of kids this year but last years team told us all about you ! we dont know if we will get to meet you but we are going to try really hard to do our best !
We have asked our coach Mrs Erratt if we can write to you so I think she is going to email you with our greetings ! how are you finding to competition this year ?
We have build the set and just about got our robot up and running although we havent managed any of the tasks yet ! but we still have a few weeks until our regional good luck and hopefully email you soon
The Team at New Lodge Surrey UK !!! - Message by: BEEPS05 10/29/2005 13:41:13 GMT
new information the peices have to be from a minstorms set snd fit in with the rules:
3 motors,
2 light sensors,
2 touch sensors,
1 rotational sensor - Message by: mm2005 11/12/2005 10:49:43 GMT
us a riser arm - Message by: St Anselms Allstars 11/14/2005 15:57:02 GMT
we are having some trouble with the construction of the robot, particularly with strengthening the robot. If you have any ideas we could use for construction then post them right here. - Message by: BEEPS05 11/14/2005 18:55:35 GMT
you could try using a design from the booklet contained with the constructin kit !! - Message by: macclesfield mariners 11/17/2005 18:37:08 GMT
ey up ppl we like av no idea wot da hell we r doin so dont xpect nothin frm us!! we ave a claw use a curvd lgo wiv mota
xXxXxXxXxXxXxXx - Message by: macclesfield mariners 11/17/2005 18:42:23 GMT
k we r like soooooooo stuck n all.Our robot sucks! Our team went 2 da festival last yr bt we r like so dam sexy!! av u gt any fit boiz in ya group? kt xXx
amy XD
grace :-) - Message by: macclesfield mariners 11/17/2005 18:43:52 GMT
our team name like totally sucks right we wanted it 2 be gud but all da swots went an changed it 2 this crap name...
we have only just joined ffl and we do not know what the duel locks are and what they are for. This would be the world of help.
can you help ffl freaks or any other team?
- Message by: RoboManiacs 09/23/2005 19:34:30 GMT
Dual lock is the special tape that came with your field set pieces used to hold certain mission models down to the mat. See the building instructions for which models get dual-locked down and how to do it.
RoboManiacs - Message by: stannes3397 11/12/2005 06:44:42 GMT
its basicaly just velcro but it is not too stickey...
we have only just joined ffl and we do not know what the duel locks are and what they are for. This would be the world of help.
can you help ffl freaks or any other team?
- Message by: Robot Friends Too 2271 09/23/2005 18:58:34 GMT
If you know what Velcro is, it is very similar but different company and MUCH BETTER! It should be with the setup kit in two squares of little squares that are adhesive on one side and on the other side is a scratchy serface that when pushed tightly against the scratchy surface of the other sheet will stick together. The nice part is that you can pull them apart. You just remove the dual lock from the paper and apply with the adhesive to the items and to the mat. Hope that answer helps and make sure that you follow the instructions closely so that your items are properly placed.
TOM - Message by: BEEPS05 09/24/2005 15:53:19 GMT
thankyou tom from robot friends too 2271 you have helped alot with setting up the mat!!!!!!!!!!!!!
luke
Weres Everyone from... Were from Leeds. Who r we up against!
- Message by: 10/01/2005 13:05:39 GMT
Deleted - Message by: BEEPS05 10/01/2005 13:29:27 GMT
BEEP05 is from Beeston, a small village in Norfolk. We will be at Cambridge on December 10. - Message by: Hexbotics306 10/02/2005 10:53:35 GMT
Hi!
We are from Hexham in Northumberland. Remember us? - Message by: MagicCreators1137 10/02/2005 19:33:30 GMT
Hello!
We're from Germany, but we like speaking French very much. Do you know Madeburg? It's the nicest city in the world! Et je n'ai pas eu le temps de te dire au revoir. Excusez-moi. Moi, je pense que ce ca! - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:03:07 GMT
Im from england - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:03:39 GMT
toad in the hole - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:04:06 GMT
in guiseley - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:04:35 GMT
foolish mortals we shall win - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:05:25 GMT
hi everybody - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:05:31 GMT
Bibby you will not win i will - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:05:47 GMT
warrens a **** - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:06:08 GMT
i will - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:06:17 GMT
bibby have you just broken the robot - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:07:26 GMT
i did not - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:07:37 GMT
no im not at home - Message by: Guiseley191 10/31/2005 15:08:01 GMT
is anbody home - Message by: sea monkeys644 11/02/2005 02:53:02 GMT
Hello english dude or dudet. I'm from Ohio in America. My team is called the Sea Monkeys. We are wondering what you are doing on the ocean research project. We are learning about ways to stop polluting the water.
Contact us at: gmccormick@readingschools.org - Message by: Anonymous186 11/03/2005 17:57:48 GMT
I remember you hexbotics and guiseley.... You av a funny team... I hope we meet...
PWNED!!! - Message by: Hexbotics306 11/08/2005 19:09:15 GMT
Lol, I hope not. We have a newly reformed team, we are halfway through our research presentation and getting on with the robot (not finished yet...were gonna be cutting it fine again!) - Message by: BEEPS05 11/08/2005 22:12:12 GMT
To Hexbotics306
we are the same, we have an almost finished:
1. project just got to complete grammar!!!
2. the robots programs just got to get them finalised!!!
p.s. we are new to - Message by: 11/08/2005 22:13:00 GMT
Deleted - Message by: Hexbotics306 12/04/2005 23:41:22 GMT
Hia,
We are through to the finals! YAY!! Hope to see some of you around on 21st Jan. Good Luck Everyone! - Message by: GMT
Hi,
We are slightly confused about the research presentation. It says chose an actvity or resource. When it says activity does it mean say scuba diving or surfing or...well thats the problem. Can anyone help?
- Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/03/2005 20:08:54 GMT
Yes, an activity is "A specified pursuit in which a person partakes" says Mr. Webster. Thus it is anything any person could do in the ocean. Scuba is something. A good place to start would be your favorite search engine - enter ocean activity, on dogpile (my favorite) there were 100 listings. Surf smart, looks like underwater volcano scuba trips could be fun.
Let the kids surf for a half hour and write down their favorite ideas.
-Laura - Message by: gemini152 10/24/2005 11:30:35 GMT
Is there someone who can tell us how to make this project.
We don't understand it.
-Gemini(Holland) - Message by: BEEPS05 10/24/2005 17:43:26 GMT
I suggest you have a look at the US Forum. - Message by: 10/26/2005 20:43:49 GMT
Deleted - Message by: 10/31/2005 15:04:08 GMT
Deleted - Message by: sea monkeys644 11/05/2005 19:53:16 GMT
Hi, we are the Sea Monkeys FLL team from Ohio in the USA. We would like to know what you are working on for your research project? Or how are you dealing with pollution in your area?
Contact us at: gmccormick@readingschools.org
P.S.: please contact us!!!!!!!!!!! - Message by: justaddlego2005 11/08/2005 15:48:07 GMT
We are a bit confuddled about the research project along with everyone else it seems!!!! - Message by: justaddlego2005 11/08/2005 15:49:00 GMT
hi, we are the just add lego 2005 team and we are having some trouble understanding what the project is asking of us ? does it want us to write about something like surfing or something like saving the coral reef ? please help us from the just add lego2005 team !x - Message by: justaddlego2005 11/08/2005 15:49:39 GMT
We are a bit confuddled about the research project along with everyone else it seems!!!! - Message by: fll-freak 11/08/2005 18:30:05 GMT
Confused people,
1) Find something you like to do in the ocean or a resource the ocean provides you.
2) Think of some cool way to make it better.
3) Do some research on 1) and 2)
4) Present the information to the judges any way you want.
-Skye - Message by: monsoon156 11/11/2005 15:21:02 GMT
we are doing sea levels - Message by: justaddlego2005 11/11/2005 15:51:21 GMT
So would a project on surfing or scuba diving be satisfactory or is it more like saving the dolphins or protecting the coral reefs?? Please help - Message by: fll-freak 11/11/2005 16:06:06 GMT
It might be. The theme for this year is Oceans. Surfing and scuba diving are certainly ocean activities. But you also need to satisfy the second half of the project objective and that is:
and trace its impact on our oceans* health, biodiversity, and productivity
So if you can show how scuba diving or surfing has an impact on ocean health, biodiversity, and productivity, then your topic is fine.
-Skye - Message by: macclesfield mariners 11/17/2005 18:51:41 GMT
u r like r sooooooo gonna loose cos u cant even do da ole txtin thing. u suck big time dnt even bothr tryin cos u stink like da rest of dem swatz in r group!!
can we use the programming system on robotics invetions program 2.0?
- Message by: fll-freak 11/02/2005 17:16:41 GMT
Yes. - Message by: BEEPS05 11/02/2005 17:21:40 GMT
in our humble opinion, as first timers, it appears easier to use ! - Message by: NKSGREW2 12/12/2005 16:18:06 GMT
Programing is easiy, i learnt how via use. the newer version is for wimps.
Hi Guys and Girls
Are we going to be seeing any of you in December 3rd at Teeside CLC?!! Hope we see some of you
Hexbotics =)
- Message by: Hexbotics306 12/03/2005 21:13:39 GMT
Hia,
Well done everyone!! Im glad we won but everyone did really really well.
Hexbotics
iv'e just joined and i need to now the missions and the rules please send to me if u have them
- Message by: sandsquids 11/11/2005 15:49:11 GMT
hi im new and i want to now more about the lego league can u send me some stuff please????? - Message by: BEEPS05 11/11/2005 15:54:47 GMT
Read the website - everything you need is available. - Message by: BEEPS05 11/12/2005 16:17:27 GMT
missions:
on the challenge page!!
rules:
challenge page!!
history:
any contry page!! - Message by: monsoon156 11/22/2005 17:17:06 GMT
Hello other team mates, we hope your rcx machines are building O.K, we wish you good luck for the tournament, and see you there!!! GOOD LUCK!!! - Message by: monsoon156 11/23/2005 13:33:53 GMT
Well, the basis of this is that you have to do series of trials in the competition, have you built your RCX yet? If not, you only have a week to do it!!!Please reply to confirm.
what wheels would be the best to use for the compition catapillar tracks or normal wheels?
thanks for your time :)
- Message by: BEEPS05 11/11/2005 15:55:59 GMT
You will have to make up your own mind, depending on what you want to achieve - experiment, but you'll have to do it quickly, as the competitions are in December ! - Message by: sandbachsquids399 11/14/2005 17:51:09 GMT
thanks for the help we will try both of them later when weve got our robot to stop going forward and do nothing else :(
Thanks - Message by: BEEPS05 11/14/2005 18:54:08 GMT
you might need to drive the wheels independently to make it turn. Sorry if this is motherhood !
wherew can i get the sheeyts that are interactive.
THE INTERACTIVE SCOREING SHEET.
THE INTERACTIVE SHEET FORM PROGRAMS ON ROBOTS.
Thanks for your help Luke
- Message by: Hexbotics306 11/14/2005 20:39:12 GMT
I did'nt realise you could get interactive scoring sheets..?! Are you sure they exist? - Message by: bps05 11/20/2005 14:24:40 GMT
you can,
you will need adobe acrobat 7.0.
1. first you can go into the us forum.
2. then into miscellaneous.
3. usful documents the search for it there.
the attchment is what it will look like.
My Mum and Dad agreed they might get me a kit for making the mindstorms robots. I would like to know, just in case I do get it! How to join up and also check out the *D-I:8 website when it comes out!
*D-I:8 means Devizes Impossibles 8 and the website (when completed) will be www.devizesimpossibles.tk
- Message by: Hexbotics306 11/13/2005 20:58:53 GMT
Hia, to publish on this forum dont you need to be registered and paid 90 pounds for the kit. Well I think that you needed to register before the 31st of Septemebr so its probably to late to enter. If ive got the wrong end of the stick soory =s - Message by: Impossibles387 11/14/2005 15:26:43 GMT
thnx 4 tha info btwy its da skools acount - Message by: Hexbotics306 11/14/2005 20:37:11 GMT
Cool, are you part of the FLL team at school or just intrested? Theres always next year! =D - Message by: bps05 11/20/2005 14:16:01 GMT
but if you wanted to you could always find you nearest team to join in with - Message by: St Anselms Allstars 11/22/2005 19:14:52 GMT
Y should i - Message by: St Anselms Allstars 11/22/2005 19:13:36 GMT
how do u stop consistancy problems
if u have answer e-mail 04eo1505@st-anselms.com or
04rm1404@st-anselms.com - Message by: St Anselms Allstars 11/22/2005 19:15:56 GMT
How do you keep your robot always gooing in the same direction
Is NC Allowed to be used to program the robots?
- Message by: Impossibles387 11/14/2005 15:33:23 GMT
Sorry "Is NQC Allowed to be used to program the robots?" - Message by: SMART 11/14/2005 15:55:23 GMT
Please check rule 34...
"The robot must be programmed using LEGO MindStorms Robotics Invention System or RoboLab software (any version)."
Regards,
Peter
heyaz u lego peeps! were soooooooooo slow at dis nd ders only 2 mor weeks 2 go!! plz reply!! cheers big ears!!!
- Message by: macclesfield mariners 11/17/2005 18:56:57 GMT
dos any1 wanna send us somit or do ya h8 da nam cos me n ma peepz do it totli sucks da swatz did it n we h8 it big time!!!
milly xXx
elle n
gabi
luv y'all - Message by: bps05 11/20/2005 14:13:57 GMT
no body knows what you are saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Message by: St Anselms Allstars 11/22/2005 18:18:58 GMT
Bill rules
We are having problems with getting our robot to travel in a straight line. We are running it on timing but if we can't get it to go straight we can't get accurate measurements.
We believe this is beacause on motor is more powerful than the other or the gearing differs.
We've tried editing the motor power but it makes no difference. We know we need it between four and five but we don't know how to get the motor speeds in points. If there is some way of getting the motor speeds in decimals or making the robot to go in a straight line without having to change the motors on the robot. If you know please reply.
The Langton Lions
- Message by: Hexbotics306 11/23/2005 23:55:25 GMT
Hia,
Sorry we cant help, we have a similar problem but we changed the gearing system on one side, so there was more friction on one side. This was awkward but now drives in a straight line!
Good Luck try on international forum or the American one (i dont think we are meant to but we can!) - Message by: BEEPS05 11/24/2005 15:55:43 GMT
Reading the US Forum is very informative, on a range of issues ! Given it's open to all, I think it is valid to use it. In fact, the US Rules Q&A is the one to monitor.
Also, try the attached - came via a Dutch FLL Team, one of the advantages of a global competition !
We found a great site regarding the problems with *driving in a straight line* with two motors*
http://eagleunlimited.syraweb.org/
T. Veldboer,
ICT-co*rdinator,
De Van Oldenbarneveltschool
Rotterdam
Hello Everyone, Can I just say Good Luck for Wednesday the 30th.
- Message by: Hexbotics306 11/29/2005 22:14:28 GMT
Do you guys & gals get a day of school for your competition?! We have ours this Saturday *gulp* Good luck to everyone! - Message by: bps05 12/03/2005 16:27:35 GMT
where is going to be?!!!
how new are you?!!!
+good luck
We have just heard they are disbanding windstorms! Does anyone know if this is just a myth... or is it actually happening?! If it is happening there will be no more FLL..or I dont think there will be. =I
- Message by: fll-freak 11/29/2005 22:40:56 GMT
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?230@@.ee96c9b
Posted at the end of the 2004 season when LEGO posted some information that got alot of people worried.
-Skye - Message by: Hexbotics306 11/30/2005 23:18:05 GMT
*phew* Thanks!
Hia,
We are through to the final, who are we going to see there? Tell us please! =D Good luck Everyone!!
Hexbotics
- Message by: TSM Roboteam 290 12/12/2005 15:25:45 GMT
hi we are tsm roboteam from suffolk we did our competition in cambridge and we won we will see you in loughborough yayayayayayaya. Are you a primary school we are what is your schools name? The youngest team mate is 9 and the oldest is 11 what is yours? Goodluck. I can't wait are you excited? bye bye - Message by: NKSGREW2 12/12/2005 16:14:43 GMT
Hi This is the NKSCrew2 (Not as the formum name suggest NKSGREW2) We flogged the others at our comptetion. We will see you at the Final a flog you too. - Message by: Hexbotics306 12/12/2005 22:07:07 GMT
Hi Roboteam,
We did our competition in We have a different schooling system to you we have an American one (First, Middle, & High School) Most of the team are from the high school but one member from the middle school. Our youngest member is 11 and eldest is 14. We have no help what-so-ever from any adults or a school. The high schools name is Queen Elizabeth High School, but the middle school is called Middle School. We cant wait until 21st Jan!!! Are you going to be travelling down the night before the competition or early on the day?? Its going to take us about 4 hours from where we live so we think we might travel down the night before. Is this your first time through to the finals, this is our second time = We came eighth in the country last year. Good Luck!! - Message by: 12/12/2005 22:07:57 GMT
Deleted - Message by: NKSGREW2 12/13/2005 14:18:35 GMT
Flogged is another word for whipped. - Message by: NKSGREW2 12/13/2005 16:12:20 GMT
it is a 3 hour drive to the uk comp, we will proboly be driving that morning - Message by: Hexbotics306 12/14/2005 18:56:03 GMT
hmm..I doubt all of us could get up that early!! - Message by: NKSGREW2 01/17/2006 21:37:17 GMT
Nks crew 2 has an age range of 12-16 (i'm not quite sure) but to make up for this we have no adult help (exept in batterys, transportation and somewere to work) and only 7 members. - Message by: TSM Roboteam 290 01/20/2006 16:14:45 GMT
hi hexbotics
we came 5th in the country last year and it will take us 3 and a half hours to get there we are going at 5:30 in the morning.Our youngest team member is 9 and the eldest team member is 11. We did our competition in cambridge college.
from TSM Roboteam.
p.s good luck with the challenge see you tommorrow!!! - Message by: fll-freak 01/20/2006 17:30:31 GMT
I would love to hear from any UK team going to the national competition if the Ocean Odyssey LEGO animated movie is show.
-Skye - Message by: Hexbotics306 01/21/2006 22:53:06 GMT
Hia,
WE had a great day, absolutley gutted about our robot on our practice rounds we were getting 280+ consistently then we forgot to change the batteries at the most crucial point. Oh well its all over now. Skye they showed the Ocean Odyssey animated film! It was excellent I loved the way Charlie was a fish, must of taken you absolutley ages. Hope everyone else had a great day!! TSM Roboteam you were absolutley brilliant we hope to see you next year we swore this would be our last year but we are addicted!!!!
Hope evryone got home safe
Hexbotics - Message by: fll-freak 01/21/2006 23:27:22 GMT
Thanks for the information. Glad you had a good time.
-Skye - Message by: TSM Roboteam 290 01/25/2006 18:05:34 GMT
Hi well done for getting your prize. We had a bit of a mess up in the semi finals aswell but atleast we had a really good time with the team and coaches.Can you email us if you hear anything about the results of who is going to America or Holland. Only one of our team is going to stay in the team but the rest of us are going to high school and won't be in a club that will enter the next competition and we'll all be depressed.Have you found out if you are through to the european finals yet if you have can you tell us we would love to now.Well done for what you did this most of our teams last year and we all love it so we are really sad!
From TSM Roboteam - Message by: Hexbotics306 01/28/2006 23:39:15 GMT
Thats a shame that only one of your team memeber is staying in the team. HExbotics isnt part of a school as we couldnt get our team involved wiht a school, if you all really love it approach a teacher at your new school or run it at one of your houses, takes over your live for 3/4 months stresses your parents out but its great fun.
We were shocked yesterday when we recieved a message from Chris Proctor and we have been selected to go through to the World Festival in Atlanta!We are going to be really busy now until April sorting out our robot, and remembering to change the batteries!! I hope you get through to one of the competitions you would deserve it. Keep in contact
Hexbotics - Message by: TSM Roboteam 290 02/01/2006 17:47:02 GMT
.......................Did they tell you anything about us................................................ - Message by: TSM Roboteam 290 02/02/2006 12:31:33 GMT
Hi again Hexbotics, forgot to say congratulations on winning through to Atlanta. Your robot will be travelling much further than normal! Good luck.
We're going to do a demonstration of our robot to the whole school next week with a video link from the ICT room where we have our table to the main hall, and do it like it is a real competition.
By the way, can you remind us of which category you got an award in Loughborough, we've lost track of things. - Message by: Hexbotics306 02/09/2006 18:24:56 GMT
Hia,
Our robot will be in for a long haul flight, maybe they should run a competetion for the furthest travelled RCX. At loughborough we recieved runner up in Robot Design.
Good Luck with your demonstration
Hexbotics
hello there the nks crew 2
would like to know the names of the teams we are going to face at loughbrough
- Message by: Hexbotics306 12/14/2005 18:54:38 GMT
Hexbotics! - Message by: Againstallodds385 01/06/2006 12:20:16 GMT
hi were comin 2 loughbrough we r Againstallodds385 c u there
There is only 3 days left to the National final, I hope you all are doing ok, have a good journey there and good luck
- Message by: NKSGREW2 01/19/2006 15:51:58 GMT
Hope you all get lost, less competition.
Hia,
What do we think is going to be FLL 2006 challenge? In some of the leaflets it talked about the world getting smaller and nanotechnology. What type of missions do you think we wil get, and the research is it going to be something we can campaign about?
Hexbotics
- Message by: SMART 01/23/2006 22:57:06 GMT
They've actually already posted a "teaser" about this at...
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=21380
They won't get any more specific till September 2006 though so as not to give anyone an early advantage. Still, any research you do now on the Nano world will be a plus.
Regards,
Peter
What is the age limit for the 2006 Lego league?
- Message by: FLL Partner UK 02/12/2006 22:09:48 GMT
Same as 2005. In UK, this is 9-16 years old (as of September 2006).
Folder: - UNITED STATES - [for American members] 11/10/2005 14:16:19 GMT
Folder: Equipment Questions 09/19/2006 21:52:21 GMT
Please post all discussions and questions about equipment in this folder.
Folder: Batteries 12/17/2005 17:00:49 GMT
Put questions about batteries here
Discussion: How big is your battery budget? By: Future Robotics 10/20/2005 17:40:35 GMT
I'm a new coach--just learning about the importance of good batteries and strategies for changing them without losing the RCX brain.
How many batteries does it take to make it through a season?
What type of batteries should I use? Alkaline? Lithium?
What about rechargeable batteries? Which type works best?
I have a sponsor who may be able to supply the team with batteries, but I need to know what to ask for. Thanks for the help.
Bob
- Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #15 09/17/2005 18:15:15 GMT
Bob,
The "battery question" is a perennial question for all FLL teams. There are lots of different ways to deal with batteries, and nearly as many different "right ways" that work for different teams.
For some excellent advice that addresses most of your questions, I would suggest looking at the Battery Section of the Unoffical FLL FAQ.
The question of rechargeable vs. alkaline batteries doesn't have a single "right answer." Which to use is a typical enginereering trade-off, with each solution having some conflicting strengths and weaknesses. The "right answer" might depend on the robot built by the team. (Another way to think of this is that picking one type of battery may influence the design of the robot.)
The team I coach has used rechargeable NiMH batteries almost exclusively for the past three years. In that time we have become quite familiar with the characteristics of the NiMH batteries. The lower voltage of the rechargeable batteries (we get about 7.7 to 8.1 volts across a total of 6 NiMH batteries) does result in "less pep" for a robot than one with disposable alkaline batteries (typically about 8.7 to 9.3 volts for a set of 6). Whether or not this is a good thing depends on the robot and how it works. Less available power can reduce the ability of the robot to do things like climb stairs, but can also be a benefit at having the robot make more precise movements. (Slower movements tend to be more controllable.) This is a typical engineering trade, without a single "right answer" but with some benefits and disadvantages to either solution.
The NiMH batteries and a good charger are expensive initially, but I think they are less expensive in the long run, and probably more environmentally friendly than disposables. We have also found them to have quite predictable decay characteristics. We have used various brands (Radio Shack, Sanyo, and Jetcell (the latter two are from RipVan100.com) without really much of a difference. Our favorites have been the green Sanyo industrial cells. The higher capacity batteries simply last longer between charges.
In sum, NiMH and alkaline batteries give different characteristics. The more limited power of the NiMH batteries may limit some of the tasks that the robot can do (due to less power) but don't prevent building a high-scoring robot. Indeed, the Mindstorms Mayhem team has had a max-score capable robot each of the past three years with NiMH batteries. (This year, though, the challenge looks really, really tough!)
Best Wishes,
--ken
Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem
PS: For some more discussion on this, you may want to investigate http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?230@@.ee978b6 the Rechargeable Batteries discussion on last year's forum - Message by: Future Robotics 09/18/2005 00:13:17 GMT
Ken,
Thanks for the ideas and links. We may have a sponsor willing to donate some batteries. I think I may go the rechargeable NiMH route. What's the minimum # of batteries we should have? We need at least 2 sets of 6 + ??? in case of failures?
Bob - Message by: fll-freak 09/18/2005 01:13:19 GMT
Two sets of 6-AA NiMh per RCX is a good target.
-Skye - Message by: We Dream of Jellyfish 09/18/2005 22:25:46 GMT
My teams have used rechargeable NiCDs for the past 3 years. As Ken said, since we are used to them and can predict their behavior, we are quite happy with them. (My first year we used regular alkaline batteries - what a disaster for us!)
It was interesting at the Robolab conference in Texas in August. A gentleman from Australia insisted that rechargeable batteries were the worst thing to use and had a steady and pronounced decay while alkalines kept their power up until the very end and, thus, were far superior for use in the RCX. We have found the opposite to be true.
Good luck whichever batteries you choose!
Marie
coach for We Dream of Jellyfish, Deep Sea Dragons and Sub Team F.M. 220 - Message by: roboticstorm1803 10/17/2005 09:38:42 GMT
NiMH batteries will not deliver as high of voltage as alkalines but I find them more consistent. A good site to compare NiMH batteries is http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM. I've had good luck with the Powerex NiMH 2200mAH Batteries.
Imaging away / flick - Message by: Future Robotics 10/19/2005 18:08:46 GMT
Thanks for the tip. My older daughter works at Best Buy. They sponsored the team through donations of material in the store, including some Eveready NiMH 2500 mAh batteries. I don't have other batteries to compare them to, but they appear to be working OK so far.
Bob - Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #15 09/19/2005 19:16:30 GMT
Another potentially helpful http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?128@@.ee980c3 discussion on batteries from last year's forum.
--ken
Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem - Message by: CGMSC2605 09/19/2005 22:51:29 GMT
For rechargeables I would go with 1 set (6 batteries) per RCX plus one additional set. Two sets per RCX would be nice but is probably not necisary. You should try to get batteries with the highest power output you can find. 2100 milliamp-hours is pretty good, but if you can find anything higher then get'm.
For alkaline batteries, I would figure one set per meeting per RCX plus a set for each tournament. If you meet twice per week for 3 months you need 6x2x4x3=144 batteries per RCX. That sounds like a lot (hmmm... I guess it is a lot!) but you can get'm pretty cheap in packages of 36 (or more) batteries.
jps - Message by: TheFidgeteers-71 10/20/2005 17:24:57 GMT
Anyone have problems with exploding batteries? I had a NiMH battery explode (see attachment). I've heard of issues with Li-ion, but not NiMH. The battery that died is one I got last year, it's been recharged in the same charger probably a half dozen times. It blew it's top with enough force to throw the recharger off the shelf!
The battery was a Digital Concepts AA NiMH. The charger came with 4 of these batteries so I would hope it's compatible. Anyone else using these batteries?
Courtney
The Fidgeteers-71 - Message by: fll-freak 10/20/2005 17:37:19 GMT
Bummer!
Was the cell put in the proper way and not backwards? Does the charger have a switch for NiCad vs NiMh? Was it in the right position?
-Skye - Message by: TheFidgeteers-71 10/20/2005 17:40:35 GMT
Yeah, the batteries were all in the proper position (had 4 charging at the time). There is no NiCad vs. NiHM switch, these were the only batteries I used in that charger.
Courtney
I was reading the UFAQ or Coach's Primer (don't have time to look it up now) about the tournament. There was a comment that there is nothing like alkaline for the tournament. We've been practicing with NiMH. Changing batteries nearly destroys the robot. It behave similarly after being reassembled, but it's always a concern. We don't have any more practices before our tournament on Saturday. Switching to alkaline seems to be too big of a risk at this late stage.
Do other teams practice with NiMH then switch to alkaline just before the tournament?
Bob
- Message by: fll-freak 11/10/2005 15:13:50 GMT
DO NOT SWITCH!!!!
If you have tuned your robot to MiNH than stick with them. If you change, the behaviour of the robot will change DRASTICALY! I will go back and look at the UFAQ to see what the comment is and perhaps reword it a bit.
I think the comment was something on the order of:
"Our team saves money by using recharables during the early part of the season and changes to alkaline before the tournament."
This can be a good cost saving measure, but "right before" is not 24 hours before, but more like 2-3 weeks before! All the magic numbers in your program would have to be re-tuned.
So why change to alkaline at all? The only reason is that the extra voltage will buy you that extra speed and or power. Lets face it, that dolphin is in great peril and needs to be saved NOW!
I think the overdriving comment should be, pick a battery solution and spend enough time with it to understand its behaviour. Do not make any last minute changes just as you would not change your base robot at the last minute.
-Skye "The devil I know" Sweeney - Message by: robot_activator100 12/02/2005 20:46:35 GMT
Need more power? Recommending -
Energizer Rechargeable AA NiMH Batteries 2500mAh (NH15-2500) in local Walmart store (4 pack or 8 pack), or
http://www.thomas-distributing.com/energizer-aa-nimh-rechargeable-batteries.htm
They are even better than Duracell Ultra AA battery (MX1500) - selling in CostCo.
You can find MX1500's spec on
http://www.duracell.com/procell/pdf/1500_US_Ultra.pdf
and you can compare it with NH15-2500
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/nh15-2500.pdf
We are Robot Activators (#100) - Fully charged! - Message by: Future Robotics 12/02/2005 22:11:06 GMT
We were using the Energizer 2500 mAh batteries. Best Buy sells them. They were good for practice, but our robot moved too slow during the tournament. Oh well, we won't make that mistake next year.
Bob
Future Robotics
Team 2072 - Message by: robot_activator100 12/02/2005 22:25:07 GMT
We are ready for VA State Tournament on Sunday, Dec 4.
We have little over 50% ratio to complete all 9 missions (400 pts) within 2.5 minutes during the practices.
OUr robot's gear ratio is 24t to 24t (1-1) with 43 mm tires (4-wheeled drive) so that the speed is decent.
High aMh battery helps!
Robot Activators #100
We have been changing our batteries only when they obviously fail. Should we be changing them more often? It is a pain because after we change them, the power of the robot changes dramatically, altering our runs significantly. Is there a way to get consistent, reproducible results with batteries?
- Message by: CGMSC2605 12/03/2005 20:03:13 GMT
In the past, we have changed batteries at least at the beginning of each meeting. The more often you change the batteries the less of a difference you will see between the old and new batteries.
The big pile of nearly new batteries can be given to the kids for their CD players, gameboys, mp3 players ... (or to the coaches to replace the battereis their kids have swiped for their CD players, gameboys, mp3 players... )
This is why we have switched to rechargeables. You loose some power but avoid going through a huge number of batteries during the season.
Another thing to consider is trying to program in such a way that battery power has little affect on the robots behavior. The most obvious thing is to never do anything based on time since the distance traveled in a particular length of time is dependent on the state of the batteries. - Message by: Future Robotics 12/04/2005 01:09:22 GMT
I attended the NH state tournament today. I hung out around the practice tables and talked to other coaches to get ideas for next year. I saw one team swap 2/6 alkaline batteries at a time to keep the voltage ~ 9 volts and avoid the supercharged first 10 minutes of a whole new set of alkaline batteries.
The team that did this had a way to check battery voltage from the RCX without interrogating it from Robolab or RIS. I haven't figured out how they did that yet.
Hope this helps.
Bob
Future Robotics
Team 2072 - Message by: RoboManiacs 12/04/2005 06:53:35 GMT
Many teams use a voltmeter to check the output from the RCX. Others interrogate the battery power through Robolab and change their program acordingly.
For our robot, we need the "supercharged first ten minutes" of battery power for top performance, so we change all batteries after every 3 full runs. We go through an awful lot of batteries this way.
RoboManiacs - Message by: Oceans1 12/17/2005 17:00:49 GMT
We swapped 4 out of the 6 batteries every 2 runs, and that seemed to work nicely. We double checked the voltage with RIS to make sure it stays between 8.9 and 9.1 volts before each competition run.
This seemed to work out for us, as we made it to Atlanta!
Paul Tan
SCS Peguins Team 752
Folder: Challenge Mat 02/24/2006 02:47:23 GMT
Folder: Line Bleeding 09/27/2005 00:50:49 GMT
Discussion: Protect Pump Station Lines By: BLS1169 09/27/2005 00:50:49 GMT
From pictures I see, it looks like the black lines going North to South and East to West around the pump station are supposed to be straight and consistent width. Our mat has black lines that have 1 straight edge and the other side has "waves". The thickness of the black line varies. Is this intentional to make the mission more difficult or a mat problem. If a problem, can I take a piece of white tape and make the line straight again.
- Message by: Team O.R.B. 09/19/2005 00:54:02 GMT
Hi,
Our mat is perfect in regards to width, and geometrically, a perfect rectangle. We have no wavy lines, nor is the thickness of the lines inconsistent. Maybe your mat was printed incorrectly, or ours was! Hope to see more discussion on this.
Shay
Coach of Team O.R.B. - Message by: missionpossible726 09/26/2005 23:44:36 GMT
I here that some of the mats will be damaged. Will they be fixed for the compititions? - Message by: fll-freak 09/27/2005 00:50:49 GMT
Yes, no, maybe. It will all depend on the tournament. Some will have received good mats. Others will not. Some with bad mats will have repaired them. Some will not.
Life is a great adventure!
-Skye
Folder: New Mat Design (for World Festival) 03/30/2006 18:33:57 GMT
Create discussions in this folder concerning the new Mat design that was shipped to Operational partners and World Festival Attendees.
Folder: Friction 02/25/2006 17:00:19 GMT
The impact of the new mat is much significant than I expected. After reading some posts here, we setup and tested the new mat last night. Most of our solutions cannot be completed consistently by routine adjustment. The friction characteristics of the new mat add a big challenge for each team now.
Discussion: Tackiness of new Mats By: SMART 03/27/2006 23:00:36 GMT
For those who have tested the new mat designs with your robot. Please post if you have had issues with the tackiness of the new Matts. Does you robot have much more trouble turning now? Any other issues you may be facing with the increased friction?
- Message by: SMART 02/23/2006 22:25:07 GMT
I'll start this off. Definitely check out the video on the Botzealot's site if you haven't already done so.
We haven't tested this a lot yet, but have noticed only a relatively minor affect on our robot's turning abilities.
Regards,
Peter - Message by: 2708 03/09/2006 21:41:56 GMT
I posted in another area - my team had to modify some programs due to the increased friction - they had issues with the old mats as well - be practice matt versus the new matt a the state tournament. A good news element is Traction increased and now less wheel slippage
Craig - Message by: fll-freak 03/09/2006 22:58:42 GMT
A bad news element is Traction increased and now less wheel slippage.
-Skye "A sword can cut both ways" Sweeney - Message by: CentralSpaceLab265 03/27/2006 23:00:36 GMT
The friction has made us change all of our programs to make our robot turn. It squeaks when the robot turns. When our robot turns on the black lines, the paint on the lines are scratched off and we see white. Also the black lines are almost the same light sensor reading as the blue.
~Central SpaceLab One
Has anyone noticed significant color difference with the new Mats. Anything that required a dramatic change to their programs, or just tweaking of light sensor values?
- Message by: DeepSeaBoulderBeasts98 02/24/2006 18:40:44 GMT
The reflectivity of the new mat gives us false light sensor readings from time to time. The light sensor sits about 1 stud off the mat and is well shielded. When it points straight down, the false readings occur. If the orientation is changed slightly so that it is not perpendicular, the problem goes away. We have not seen this with the old mat. - Message by: SMART 02/25/2006 04:05:02 GMT
Very intersting. We'll have to keep any eye out for that. We've noticed some light sensor issues, but haven't changed our programs yet so not sure yet if we're having any real issues.
- Peter - Message by: 02/25/2006 06:19:18 GMT
Deleted - Message by: madrobotists390 02/26/2006 18:56:37 GMT
Our tests show that almost all light sensor readings used in our programs of different colors on the new mat are different from those on the old mat. Good thing is that the new readings are relatively consistent in our tests. - Message by: SMART 02/26/2006 22:17:46 GMT
So far we're finding that the difference between the sand and the green and blue on either side is less than it was before. Our programs still work after tweaking, but we are concerned about the smaller differential.
Regards,
Peter - Message by: RoboRage1060 03/21/2006 22:31:58 GMT
We were using the light sensor to detect the outline of the shipwreck before, now the light sensor doesn't see that line at all. Even very small differences between the thick black lines and blue water on the mat now (51-50 blue ... 49 black.) Keep our fingers crossed! :)
Please discuss what the affect on your robot is based on the fact that the new mat is much thinner than the old mat.
I'll start the ball rolling on this one. We haven't noticed a problem with our bot, but our practice table has very smooth wood on the "floor". One of our concerns is that any imperfection or "graininess" of the underlying floor surface will be transmitted through the new mat much more easily than the old. So we're worried that the kind of wood used for the floor of the board will make a difference.
Has anyone seen this happening on their boards where perhaps the surface of their practice board isn't so smooth?
Traditionally we've mostly had to worry about the affect of knots, warping and scraches on the side walls, but not so much about the floor of the board.
Regards,
Peter
Our new mat is showing wear in several places less than one week after we received it from our state partner. (We just got the mat late last Friday afternoon.) The color is starting to wear off and leaving white nicks in the surface in front of the dolphin and in front of the part of the pipeline that is repaired. Is anyone else seeing this type of wear, especially in a brand new mat?
Muriel
- Message by: northandover486 03/13/2006 03:05:59 GMT
We are also seeing noticeable wear on the new mat. I'm starting to wonder about the black lines getting scratched with the white liner coming through and messing with the light sensor readings.
We have also noticed that imperfections in the table under the mat (screw heads, oreo crumbs etc...) are causing strange steering deflection due to the thinness of the mat.
I'm not seeing the benefit yet.
Peter - Message by: Robotik510 03/13/2006 16:56:10 GMT
The continuing wear on the new mat will undoubtedly impact the way programs run. We have heard that this new mat will cause the price of the challenge kit to go up. This seems odd, considering that we, too, see no benefit in the new mat. Indeed, it seems to be of a lower quality.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Peter.
Muriel - Message by: SMART 03/13/2006 23:03:53 GMT
Hmm,
Not sure I agree about no benefit to the new mat. With the old mat bubbling and creasing were major issues. And this year curling was a major issue (although I think that was mostly because they shipped it in too small triangular boxes).
So far this is my "pros and cons"
Pros:
- Lays very flat on the table out of the box
- No bubling issue
- Won't crease as easily
Cons:
- Nicks and scraches are much more damanging ("white coming through").
- Thinness of mats makes the quality of the wood and any possible debris under the mat a much bigger issue. Since many teams cannot afford or don't have the space to practice on a regulation table, you would ideally want the mat to provide a fairly consistent result on whatever flat surface you put it on. The thinness definitely impacts that. It also makes the quality of the competition tables at a tournament a bigger factor that it currently is.
Neutral:
- Higher friction - Not sure I'd say this is a negative, just requires a different robot design for future teams, but all will have it the same
- Color differential - There seems to be much less difference in color between the "dark" and "light" colors on the mat between the new and old style. Makes using the light sensor much more challenging. Again, this could be something that the teams have to adjust to, or perhaps FIRST takes that into account and designs next year's mat with a much bigger color difference on the field (think City Sights)
I'm hoping this is a trial run, and that perhaps there is still time to take the lessons learned and correct some of the issues with the new mat design before next season. I do think it is a promising design.
- Peter D. - Message by: northandover486 03/14/2006 00:25:52 GMT
I never actually had any trouble with the old mat, so I'm somewhat biased.
Finish damage means the finish is not very stable. I think we should wonder if the high surface friction will hold with lots of surface wear. It wouldn't surprise me to see the mat end up looking like the grass courts at Wimbledon during the final (no grass anymore in the high traffic paths). The friction may be different where the surface wears.
High friction also makes skid steering more difficult which will probably encourage more use of caster steering (which I think is very discouraging to novice teams). Maybe that's OK?
On the plus side, we have noticed that the high friction tends to cause let's slippage in the wheels which makes it easier to go straight.
Peter - Message by: CentralSpaceLab265 03/27/2006 23:16:13 GMT
We have done FLL ever since it started. With the old mats we have NEVER had a problem with bubbiling or anything of the sort. Yet with the new mat we have many ISSUES.
1. The color scratches off easily, especially the black lines.
2. It is hard to trace because the colors have similar readings.
3. Turning is harder to do because of all of the friction, but that we have solved. - Message by: fll-freak 03/28/2006 05:09:06 GMT
Consider yourself lucky that you never had any problems with bubbles in the old mats. My first mat (Arctic Impact) was useless by the end of the season. My No Limits mat needed some serious surgery to repair. All the other mats had a certain amount of blistering.
This is not to say you are not having issues with the new mat. But I understand why FIRST is trying a new mat. The old ones where a nuisance. My guess is that they will rethink this mat before next year's production run.
-Skye - Message by: SMART 03/28/2006 17:27:37 GMT
Yes, the color definitely scratches off too easily. I think that should be fixed for sure as by the end of a season many teams will be having problems.
And the difference in light readings is much lower between the colors. This could be compensated for by using a mat design with starker color differences like City Sights, but is definitely a concern.
Personally I don't have a problem with the friction issue for future years as it is the same for everyone. It is just a design issue of torque vs. speed with a slightly different answer than with the old mats. A bit of a pain for this year's WF teams, but an even playing field for next year. Also, the missions models could certainly be designed to have less touch with the ground. For example, imagine the shipping container having skids on the bottom (only 4 small connection points). Friction would have been less of a factor.
Hopefully FIRST will get this kind of feedback in time to make changes before shipping next year's mats.
- Peter - Message by: northandover486 03/30/2006 01:24:36 GMT
With apologies, as I am an engineer by nature and cannot help myself....
You cannot reduce friction by reducing the contact surface area (only 4 small connection points). The total friction is a function of the weight of the container, which remains constant. Our kids refuse to believe this fact and keep trying.
In fact, your suggestion could make the friction larger, because 4 small points could cause plastic deformation of the surface (think about 4 sharp pins).
Peter - Message by: SMART 03/30/2006 18:33:57 GMT
Hmm,
Guess they'll have to put those heavy models on wheels ;-)
- Peter
We unrolled our mat for the first time and it has already delaminated in several places along the edge closest and parallel to the pipeline. Have others had the same problem? Is there any way to fix it? Any way to keep it from getting worse during the season?
Thanks!
- Message by: logicalnautical734 09/09/2005 19:34:39 GMT
We have the same problem. - Message by: fll-freak 09/09/2005 20:07:41 GMT
To keep a mat from further delamination, you must treat it with care. Dropping sharp objects on it can cause a bubble to start. Try to leave it in place all season if possible.
It has been my experience that a warm iron can help fix a mat. Place a cloth over the mat and use an iron at lowest temperature setting. Push down hard and move it around. Gradualy increase the temperature till you get some results. Just make sure you do not heat it too much as the soft vinyl will start to expand and you will distort the mat. If you have bubbles, pop them with a pin before ironing. Use this as a last resort.
On the positive side, your mat will probably look like the mats at competition. Practicing on a delaminated mat might be better than on a pristine mat.
-Skye - Message by: pvcsilver2825 09/13/2005 05:20:49 GMT
I have registered two teams. One mat was perfect, the other came in such poor shape, I can't imagine asking kids to try to work with it. I've been trying to work with FLL to get a replacement, but they are extremely unresponsive. I will be staying on them. - Message by: Yellow Brick Roaders 2637 09/14/2005 14:41:26 GMT
My team's mat arrived damaged, but UPS and Pitsco quickly took care of getting me a replacement. There was mild damage to the packaging, but it caused extensive delamination. The replacment mat had a somewhat crushed corner, but fortunately it's the Base corner so it's not a big deal.
While I understand that the 3M/Lego/Pitsco budget is limited, I think that the packaging for the mats needs to be improved. With their delicate construction and limited availability, we just can't afford much shipping damage. I know that a strong mailing tube will be more expensive than the triangular "tube" but it would probably eliminate 95% of the mat issues.
Doug - Message by: fll-freak 09/14/2005 15:04:48 GMT
I fondly remember the year the mats were shipped in massive cardboard tubes with white plastic end caps. The tube must be at least 9 inches (if not 12) in diameter. I keep all my mats stored in it.
Went to buy one at the store a year ago and found that a similar tube was nearly $20! A cardboard triangle tube was about $5 (in lots of one). Can't imagine how much those tubes must have cost to buy and ship.
-Skye - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 09/20/2005 17:01:50 GMT
This year they tried to increase the strength of the package. The cardboard is thicker for one and the change from a square to a triangle shaped package which improved the strength greatly. FLL is going through trial and error right now to find the best shipping method, remember FLL is only a few years old :) Carla
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI - Message by: monkeys701 09/13/2005 12:39:53 GMT
It's unfortunate that there are problems again this year with mats. And while I agree with Skye that teams should be prepared to run into less than perfect mats at local tournaments, I disagree when we're talking about FIRST sanctioned state tournaments. Perfect mats are out there. We were fortunate enough to get one, as was another local team we are friends with. Kids put an enormous amount of time into these challenges, and one of the worst disappointments is to not have the robot work properly because of a messed up mat. Since we know good mats exist, I think FIRST has a responsbility to try its hardest to get good mats to all FIRST sanctioned state tournaments. - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/13/2005 14:31:44 GMT
Most mats can be early fixed. If you use a normal house iron and a piece of printer paper, you can remove most imperfections. One of the mats I received had unrolled in the tube such that it had creases from the triangle packing tube.
Follow these steps and your mat will be good as new:
1.) Lay your mat out on the table and put books on the corners to hold it down.
2.) Set your iron to low and turn off the steam (steam is very bad) Test the iron setting by touching the mat under the research vessel(Only area not visible during matches.)
It should not distort the mat or stick to the iron.
3.) Only touch the iron to the paper, never the mat.
4.) Work from the middle of the mat out to the edged.
4a.) For bubbles, poke a hole in the edge of the bubble, work your iron towards the bubble in a sweeping motion side to side slowly and only with the tip.
4b.) For edge bubbles start at the most inside area and work to the edge.
4c.) For creases, make sure your paper is bigger than your iron and put the whole iron down over the crease with a bit of weight and move it slowly back and forth as if you were attaching an iron on to a T-shirt. Check your work often.
4d.) For edge de-laminations, turn the iron up just a little and using the paper, press really hard. Keep an eye on the edge, if you see it stretching , turn the iron down a little.
This may take you some time and you may need to adjust your iron to a hotter setting to make it work well, but you will have a batter mat, not perfect, but better.
Remember the mats are donated from 3m and the other sponsors, and they are ordered so there are no extras at the end of the year. Unlike ego that have a million uses, the mat is a one time, special use item and has little use after the season.
As for the State Events, we will be flattening our mats about 1 month ahead of the tournament and hope to have "nice" mats by the event. They won't be perfect, but they will be ok.
- Laura - Message by: fll-freak 09/13/2005 14:56:27 GMT
With your permission this is going into the UFAQ.
-Skye - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/13/2005 15:05:01 GMT
Skye,
I have some really great pix I was going to post on a web site to show this better, but my computers both exploded last week :-( If you want, I'll send you those...
-Laura - Message by: fll-freak 09/13/2005 15:08:18 GMT
At this point I am staying away from photos in the UFAQ. I think the verbal description was more than adequate to explain the process. But perhaps we should mention what end of the iron to hold for those without experience in these matters?
-Skye - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/13/2005 15:12:30 GMT
Skye,
Funny, I had to buy an iron for this. T-shirts and jeans don't get ironed in our house :-)
I have a nice monocote iron that works much better, but I don't think many people have those.
-Laura - Message by: Yellow Brick Roaders 2637 09/14/2005 14:32:52 GMT
Could you clarify step 2 with respect to step 3? Do you test the temperature by touching the mat directly or with paper in between?
Thanks!
Doug - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/14/2005 20:44:22 GMT
Step 2 is where you set the temp on your iron. It is to hot if you touch the mat with the tip of the iron and the mat melts. That's why you test under the ship :-) The paper in step 3 is to make sure the temperature changes that occur while the iron is heating itself up are masked a bit.
You could use the iron right on the mat, but past experience with household irons shows that they will very in temperature 30-80 degrees while in use.
The mats are extremely hardy. For the tough creases I do run the tip of the iron right on the mat, but there is always the chance it will be during a hear up cycle and I'll have a hole.
-Laura - Message by: monkeys701 09/13/2005 14:50:08 GMT
Laura,
Thanks from all of us. - Message by: aquamarineguardians3782 09/22/2005 02:43:45 GMT
im not sure why but our mats are jus he way we want them to be. i noticed that the cardboard was thicker as mentioned by carla
-kyle
After we constructed the pipeline, it didn't quite fit on the challenge mat. It would fit in the squares correctly, but when the center piece was pushed in place, and the pipeline activated from the end with the plunger, it didn't reach. Therefore, the flags didn't come up. We think we made a mistake in building it. Does anyone else have this problem?
- Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/09/2005 22:02:36 GMT
See discussion at
/scripts/webx.dll?14@@.ee98342/0 fll-freak "Pipeline Construction" 8/29/05 3:16am
-Laura - Message by: crazycreators304 09/09/2005 22:05:25 GMT
Everyone has the same problem. My guess is that we will be asked to add a coupler and a small axle to extend each of the pipelines at the center so it will work. The parts are available in the robot kits we should all already have. But this is just my guess. We will be informed officially what to do in the rules on the 12th. - Message by: MA_HeadRef_2894 09/12/2005 20:08:24 GMT
And the official answer is: move the long pieces toward the center. See the setup instructions now available.
THE FIELD MAT THAT WE HAVE SEEMS TO BE SMALLER THAN YEARS PAST. I USED TO BE ABLE TO PUT IT UNDER THE 2 I 4'S AND THIS MAT DOES NOT REACH. ANY IDEAS ON HOW TO FASTEN IT TO THE TABLE.
- Message by: fll-freak 09/12/2005 03:13:11 GMT
1) Check your cap-lock key. It appears to be stuck on. Block upper case is read as shouting. No need to shout over this!
2) Read this discussion: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?230@@.ee9839f
3) Read the UFAQ when it becomes available at 12:00 EDT 9/12/05
-Skye - Message by: RoboManiacs 09/12/2005 07:20:13 GMT
It is my understanding that the mats were intentionally made smaller this year. This was due to the problems last year with the oversized mats. The decision was made that a mat slightly smaller than the table would allow for uniform placement when the instructions are released on the 12th.
As I understand it, this was deemed to be preferable to the possibility of teams trimming their mats in different ways - as happened last year.
The instructions on the 12th will clearly define the mat placement on the table. As every team's mat will be a bit small, the placement should be uniform around the world.
RoboManiacs
Unofficial Forum Moderator
RoboManiacs Web Home - Message by: doc1242 09/28/2005 17:42:23 GMT
We were wondering, if you were supposed to practice missions on the field rippled or flat. In your picture it shows the ripples on it and ours got rippled from the triangular box, which made us wonder, was that why it's trangular? We want to know how to practice so at the compition are robot won't be messed up for practicing on ripple or nonripple field. Also, what makes it hard to understand is that it came to us flat so we aren't sure what to do. To my conclusion, I ask once more, is the feild supposed to be rippled, or nonrippled as in flat?
Sincerely,
D.O.C. - Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #15 09/28/2005 17:48:38 GMT
The field is "supposed to be" flat. Tournaments will do their best to have the fields be flat, but the reality is that many tournaments will not have rolled the mats out until the night before the tournament. I am sure that tournaments will do their best to have the mats be flat, but it will be very difficult to ensure that the mats are absolutely flat. Accordingly, it is not unreasonable to expect some level of "rippling" of the mats at tournaments, particularly "local tournaments."
Ideally, the robot will work great on a flat field, and will be able to operate correctly with some level of "rippling" of the mat. I'd suggest trying to have your team come up with a bot and programs that is reliable with respect to moderate amounts of variation in mat flatness, rippling, etc.
--ken
Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem - Message by: SeaWolves2091 11/12/2005 20:59:10 GMT
Will the tables at competition be built according to the specs such that there is roughly a 1 1/2" gap between the west edge of the mat and the wall and, if so, what will the edge of the mat be held down with?
Sea Wolves - Message by: fll-freak 11/12/2005 22:48:42 GMT
I hope that the tables will be built to spec and have at most 1/2" gap at the end. If you have 1+1/2" gap either your mat is WAY too small, or your table is not to spec.
Just came back from a tournament. As normal for a local, the tournament unrolled the mats the morning of the competition. They were curled as yours was at first. Luckly I had two rolls of double sided carpet tape with me (never leave home without it) that was used to hold them down.
-Skye - Message by: oaklandtechrunners444 11/13/2005 14:25:53 GMT
We had a little bit of curl still in the mats at the tourney yesterday, even though they were put out the night before, and there was masking tape holding the corners.
They were placed pretty close to the measurements in the Q&A, within 1/4". I find it interesting, though, that those measurements were to the 1/16" level. If you can navigate to the nearest 1/2" with this toy, you're doing pretty good. Far better than using dead reckoning is to use sensors, touch and light, to find out where you are and adjust. - Message by: SeaWolves2091 11/13/2005 14:44:31 GMT
Well, the plan was to use a touch sensor and crash into the west wall but if the edge of the mat is not held down by the wall or is not taped down securely, we'll get caught on the edge of the mat when we back away from the wall.
We registered 2 teams, 1 early, 1 late. The mat we got early looks like the colors are right, on the late ones the printer was obviously running low on some ink colors. It looks kinda washed out.
However the black lines are good. It's a little hard to see the deep/shallow divide, but with another mat we know where it is.
I haven't contacted anybody about it, and my first inclination is to not raise a fuss. With good black lines it shouldn't cause any problems (that I can think of).
Does anybody know any reason that a yellow-green sea would cause us issues? There's a little more light contrast between teal/black than between a good blue and black. But that doesn't seem that big. Anyone disagree?
- Message by: fll-freak 09/14/2005 03:33:49 GMT
Since you have two mats, I would suggest an experiment. What is the contrast change between the various blues and the black?
I can pretty much garantee that you will never see the variations between blues. But I can imagine not being able the sense the change between the blue and black.
Another resource to read is the "Building LEGO Robots for FIRST LEGO League". It has a nice section on the light sensor and all its various sensitivities.
-Skye
We have lost our dual-lock. Does anyone know the exact model number for this part and where one might order a replacement? I was able to locate another size dual-lock at an electronics store but it is too large. We need the smaller size. Our team is in Kentfield, CA (North SF Bay area).
Thanks for any leads...
Linda
- Message by: fll-freak 09/23/2005 19:36:06 GMT
Scissors!
It used to be we were just given one sheet we had to cut up ourselves. Going back in time might be your best bet.
Replacement parts can be ordered. Read your Coaches' Handbook on page 96/97.
-Skye - Message by: RadioactiveSpam3345 10/01/2005 18:37:02 GMT
At the risk of showing how much of a newbie I am, can someone please tell me how to use the dual-lock pieces? Do I stick them to the mat under the models that should not move? Do I stick them to the underside of the models? Both? Maybe I'm not being forceful enough, but the dual-lock pieces don't seem to stick to each other.
Thanks,
Lori - Message by: RadioactiveSpam3345 10/01/2005 18:43:00 GMT
Well, I quickly answered one of my own questions. Seems I was not being forceful enough. They do lock together. So, just to be sure before I possibly ruin my mat, do I stick them to the mat itself where the models go and to the bottom of the models?
Lori - Message by: fll-freak 10/01/2005 19:47:25 GMT
The instructions for how to place the Dual-Lock can be found in the field setup instructions. Here are the critical documents to read including the field setup doc:
Read the FLL Coaches' Handbook. This is the orange and black paperback book that came with your materials from FIRST.
Read the Rules. Available here: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15870
Read the Mission Descriptions. Available here: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15910
Read the Table Setup instructions. Available here: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15880
Read the latest version of the Q&A. Available here: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15920
Read the Unofficial FAQ. Available here: http://www.fll-freak.com/faq
-Skye - Message by: RadioactiveSpam3345 10/02/2005 01:41:37 GMT
Sorry about that. I had just skimmed that document and didn't realize they were so specific about where the dual-lock go. Thank you for your instructions and patience.
Lori - Message by: fll-freak 10/02/2005 01:47:32 GMT
No problem. I can remember my first year and all the questions I had. Back in the old days, there was no UFAQ, and the Forum was in its first year. Trying to get information was very difficult. Today you rookie coaches have it easy. In my day we had to push the robot uphill both ways.
Best of Skill.
-Skye - Message by: We Dream of Jellyfish 10/02/2005 20:20:34 GMT
Uh huh - but I had to depend on my team to push the robot uphill both ways in the snow while dodging polar bears to attempt to rescue their hapless and clueless coach!
Marie
coach of We Dream of Jellyfish, Deep Sea Dragons, and Sub Team F.M. 220 - Message by: oaklandtechrunners444 10/03/2005 17:39:02 GMT
Back in the good old days, you had to be a woodworker to create your table models. - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/03/2005 20:18:38 GMT
You mean we weren't supposed to make the bricks out of wood this year. I've spent the last month cutting out little square blocks and putting pegs in them. The hardest were those darn wimpy axles for the dolphin cage.
-Laura (Wood worker at heart) - Message by: RadioactiveSpam3345 10/02/2005 02:13:55 GMT
Sorry about that. I had just skimmed that document and didn't realize they were so specific about where the dual-lock go. Thank you for your instructions and patience.
Lori
We had a problem with the mats wanted to take on the triangular shape of the container that it was shipped in(We weren't putting rubber bands around the rolled mat). We would roll it up and store it back in the box and the next time, we would have "waves" in the mat each time we unrolled it. To solve this, one of our dad's got an empty tube from the middle of a carpet roll from Home Depot and we just cut it to length and put ends on it. Now we have a nice robust and round tube to store the mat in.
We have seen 2 different types of mats, made of different material. One is the same material as prior years the other is of different stuff. The surface of the new mat seems to be a little "tackier". Which mat will be in use at the world festival?
- Message by: fll-freak 02/02/2006 19:52:40 GMT
I would be very surprised to hear that you have two OO mats that were initialy different. This year the mats were all made at the same time (unlike previous years). I suspect that one of your mats has been altered by a cleaning agent, grease, grime, heavy use, or other process.
-Skye - Message by: RoboManiacs 02/02/2006 20:37:45 GMT
There are two different mats. FLL is going to a new supplier and new manufacturing process for the mats next year. The DA winner from each state should receive a prototype Ocean Odyssey mat from their state partner. The prototype mats will be the ones in use at the World Festival.
The main difference is that there is no laminate coating the mat. This makes is lay flatter on the table and removes the annoying bubbles and wrinkles.
Mark
RoboManiacs - Message by: SMART 02/02/2006 21:11:53 GMT
Fascinating!
Any info on when they might be delivering it?
Regards,
Peter - Message by: RoboManiacs 02/02/2006 21:55:22 GMT
The new mats have already been sent to the state partners. Each state partner received 2 of the new mats: 1 to give to the DA winner and 1 to practice (play) with. Every DA winner should be practicing on the new mats as they will be used in Atlanta.
Any DA winner who has not received the prototype mat from their State Partner should contact them immediately.
Mark
RoboManiacs - Message by: botzealots1105 02/03/2006 04:43:08 GMT
FYI be sure you have the new mat as the surface is definitely less slick. The robots won't slide on it as easily in turning. I wish they would stick to the original mats, I predict a problem here with teams coming to the world festival without the new mat and getting a nasty surprise. - Message by: madrobotists390 02/03/2006 19:33:07 GMT
As michigan DA winner, we have not received any new mat. Is is information true?
Simon
Coach of Mad Robotists - Message by: fll-freak 02/03/2006 20:41:40 GMT
It would appear to be correct. I just talked to the NH tournament partner and indeed they got two new mats with instructions to get one to the team advancing to Worlds.
To go back to my original statement of only one printing. That WAS true for the bulk of the main season. Unless the two mats include a very new one, they were the same at one point.
-Skye - Message by: RoboManiacs 02/03/2006 20:43:19 GMT
Yes, the e-mail dated January 2, 2006 from FIRST to the state partners is copied below:
Dear Partners:
With the welcoming of 2006, we are working on improvements to the current FLL Mat. We have a prototype of the mat that we plan to use next season (this or a similar product), which eliminates the laminate layer and the bubbling problem that many teams experienced. Overall, from our testing, meetings and research, we feel strongly that this development will make a big difference and we are sure the teams and you will agree.
As part of the process, we will be using the new mats at World Festival in April. We are sending each FLL Partner 2 (3 outside US and Canada) mats: one to give to the team from your official tournament attending World Festival; and one to keep for yourself. Extra Dual Lock will be sent under separate cover in a month or two, as soon as it arrives. We encourage you to use the mat, and please send us any feedback that might prove helpful.
We do hope that you will join us at World Festival this year. We are incorporating some new ideas and we think the teams will really appreciate these changes. We are always looking for volunteers, and encourage you to join us in Atlanta!
Warmest Regards,
Betsy Daniels - Message by: oaklandtechrunners444 02/03/2006 22:42:49 GMT
International too? I'll check with the South African team.
- Gary - Message by: oaklandtechrunners444 02/06/2006 19:44:56 GMT
Pieter in South Africa said he had received the mats, but hadn't tried them out yet. They did appear to be of better construction, and the surface might be more tacky. - Message by: 02/03/2006 22:43:15 GMT
Deleted - Message by: Hexbotics306 02/11/2006 00:22:47 GMT
Hi,
We are from Hexham in England, we have qualified for the World Festival but we havent heard anything about a new mat...if these mats are going to be used at the competition how are we going to get hold of one? - Message by: botzealots1105 02/11/2006 00:56:40 GMT
E-mail Elizabeth Daniels at FIRST - Message by: Hexbotics306 02/14/2006 20:13:01 GMT
Thank you very much for your help, we should recieve one by next Wednesday. - Message by: botzealots1105 02/22/2006 20:21:15 GMT
This is a copy of a message I sent to Scott Evans of FLL.
We are having some concerns about the replacement mats. Is there any way
to stick with the original mats until after the World Festival? While we
can see that the replacement mats look better and lay flatter, the robots act
differently on them. There seems to be quite a bit more drag on the
replacement mat. I believe this will effect a majority of the robots
since skid steer is a common option. If we had started the season with
the replacement mat I would see no problem, but I hate to see the kids
re-designing and re-programming at this late date.
Here is a link to a video the kids made showing how their robot spins
freely on the original mat but can only make a couple of revolutions on
the replacement mat.
http://botzealots.org/qt/3.php?mov=/qt/mat&h=640&w=720 If the
replacement mat will absolutely be in place for the world festival the
kids will do what they need to to be ready. It certainly does place
another brick on the load as far as preparation goes. - Message by: fll-freak 02/22/2006 22:45:10 GMT
I saw your message the first time...
Wow! I just saw the movie you posted. That is indeed a major change in the robot's environment.
You realize that FIRST monitors this forum only for foul language etc. If you want an official answer you must go direct to FIRST (as you have done). It will be interesting to hear the responce.
I am very surprised that FIRST has changed the mat at this late date. I understand their desire to get some experience on the new mat, but doing so in the midst of competition seems a bit misguided. I can only hope that perhaps they did not realize the impact it would have on teams. I could easily see a team having to completely scrap a design to get it to work on the new 'sticky' mat.
I am also concerned that not all the World Festival teams will get a new mat. The mats were sent to tournament partners to give to the winning team. But some partners may not realize the impact that such a change might have and not bother to forward a new mat. I can only assume that there will be a few horribly surprised teams at the festival. Teams that will have spent a fortune to get there and now be out of the running.
And now if FIRST reverses themselves it will be hard on the teams that spent time trying to correct their robot. Time they could have put to better use in other ways.
Certainly not a win-win situation.
-Skye - Message by: botzealots1105 02/23/2006 19:49:11 GMT
here is the reply from Scott Evans
Hi Mike,
When we got the option to use new mats or old ones at this year's World Festival, the deciding factors in favor of using new ones were overwhelming. The only factor against using new mats was that teams would need to make some robot adjustments, and we do regret this increase to your preparation load, but please consider these mitigating factors as you proceed:
---We have put top quality mats in the hands of W.F. teams with the equivalent of 1.5 regular season's worth of lead time in which to get used to them. As you know, in a regular 8 week season, a team has to build their field, go through the Challenge documentation, do research, make a presentation, and design, and build, and program their robot from scratch. By comparison, this 12 week (average) lead time W.F. teams have been given to adjust to mat differences seems reasonable.
---All W.F. teams are receiving the same new mat, and all will have about the same amount of time to adapt to whatever changed characteristics affect their robot---friction for some; color for others, but no one is being put at a unique, unfair advantage, especially compared to the random havoc caused by the old mats...
---On the contrary, the bubbles, delamination, and border problems associated with the old mats have a notorious documented history of putting arbitrary teams---especially teams that rely on sliders for turning---at a huge disadvantage, and one that would be utterly unacceptable, given that beautiful new generation mats have been made available for that day and given to teams with plenty of time to practice with in advance. No amount of lead time would have been enough to remove the frustration and disappointment of Table B ruining your performance even though you just had a great run on Table A.
---Though they do tend to have great performing robots, most Director's Award winning teams (W.F. invitees) did not win the Performance Award, so historically their pursuit of perfection has them doing extensive robot rework in the weeks leading up to W.F. even without a mat change.
---To the extent that it does present a burden, if anyone could be expected to graciously adapt to a mat change, especially with this lead time, hopefully we could expect that from our W.F. teams, as they represent the top 1% of teams in the world by every measure.
How did you find out? It should be the same for everybody. Feel free to share what you know on the forum (thanks) but FLL staff and operational partners will increasingly be corresponding directly with W.F. teams very soon if they haven't already, so no need to worry about teams being surprised.
Best Regards, - Message by: SMART 02/23/2006 22:12:32 GMT
It might be worth starting a new folder specifically to discuss issues and challenges with the new mats. I'll make a new folder for that purpose now as there seem to be a bunch of threads talking about the same thing.
By the way, Botzealots. It generally isn't necessary to post you message in multiple locations. If you click on the "Message Center" button then it will bring up a list of recently added posts regardless of where on the forum they were placed. So anyone who regularly monitors the forum will see your message.
On the other hand, by posting in multiple locations those of us who use the Message Center feature end up seeing the same message over and over. It is a bit confusing as it is hard to tell which one to respond to and you end up with multiple thread about exactly the same thing.
Thanks,
Peter - Message by: botzealots1105 02/23/2006 23:29:06 GMT
sorry everybody,
I don't use the forum much and you are paying for my ignorance.Mike - Message by: SMART 02/24/2006 02:47:23 GMT
No problem. It is an important topic I think. I just hope other WF teams are monitoring the forum.
- Peter
Folder: Equipment Available 12/01/2005 20:59:53 GMT
Discussion: Intersting part available in limited quantity By: fll-freak 10/09/2005 15:56:55 GMT
The following part is available in the USA. Over the years Ken and I have purchased most of the available stock. One more has become avalable.
http://www.BrickLink.com/store.asp?p=ToyBrickBrigade&itemID=4776046
-Skye
- Message by: RoboManiacs 09/18/2005 05:07:07 GMT
Skye,
Someone jumped on your recommendation. Can you give a part name so we can at least see what we are missing? :)
RoboManiacs
Team #11
Large Photo of the Interesting Part.
As far as I know, this piece has only been included in the Dacta Control Lab kits in the mid 1980s. I purchased the first of these parts that I saw at the beginning of this last summer. Neither I nor the team that I coach has tried to do anything with them yet. The team will surely try some experiments during this upcoming season, but they haven't tried anything yet.
--ken
Coach, Mindstorms Mayhem - Message by: fll-freak 10/09/2005 15:56:55 GMT
A few more of these have become available at:
http://www.BrickLink.com/store.asp?p=brickathon&itemID=4895423
-Skye
On the Lego Education Web site, they sell many different kits. Can you buy (for example) the Fork Lift and use it connected to a motor for the competition? The kids would not be creating it from scratch but they would need to modify it. Is this legal?
- Message by: fll-freak 10/04/2005 18:47:21 GMT
It is legal. Many rookie teams arrive at competitions using only slightly modified robots from the Constructapedia or from some Mindstorms book. This is really no different. Of course it does cut down on your innovative design score if the judges are familiar with the original source!
-Skye - Message by: LakeObotics2677 10/25/2005 05:41:01 GMT
Our team has two RCX units and enough gears, axles, etc. to build a duplicate of the kids' designed competition robot - almost. We need:
1 - clutch gear
1 - rotation sensor
1 - motor
Can anyone recommend where I might find these parts needed to complete a duplicate competition robot. Then our team can be split and more time spent by all practicing programming and robot design tests. - Message by: fll-freak 10/25/2005 12:43:00 GMT
All these items can be purchased from LEGO Educational also known as LEGO-Pitsco-Dacta. The phone number and web address are on page 96 of the coaches' manual.
These parts can also be purchased from the miriad of vendors that make up www.bricklink.com
-Skye - Message by: CGMSC2605 10/25/2005 21:52:21 GMT
You might want to consider getting a couple of the clutch gears since they will wear out with lots of use.
And, since there are at least two different versions of the geared motors you might want to get two motors instead of one to make sure they are they same type. - Message by: scorpians1831 11/11/2005 16:15:05 GMT
/the team is wondering if it is legal to use extra pieces in their robot. They have two mindstorm sets and would like to use more gears that those that come in the set. Is this legal? Also, they needed to have a counterweight so the robot does not tip over as it travels and I had a weighted brick from an old lego technic set. Can they use it? - Message by: fll-freak 11/11/2005 16:29:16 GMT
This is fully addresed in the UFAQ at www.fll-freak.com
-Skye - Message by: 10-Bremen Botz! 12/01/2005 20:59:53 GMT
We have been able to get most extra pieces we need from www.bricklink.com
Sometimes having the kids just browse the parts available will generate some ideas...
Les ---
Bremen Botz! Team X (10)
Folder: Equipment Needed 10/24/2005 16:12:25 GMT
Discussion: Missing Pieces By: tigers2563 10/18/2005 19:55:20 GMT
We seem to have missing pieces in our FLL 2005 Field Set Up Kit. Should we use pieces from our Robot Kit? Is this a common occurance? What do we do?
Beth Hughes
- Message by: fll-freak 09/09/2005 21:32:54 GMT
It is fairly rare to be missing parts but it does happen. I would look to make sure you are not using the missing pieces someplace else. The instructions for the field models must be followed to the letter. This is not a place to "color outside the lines"!
If you are missing a part, you could substitute one from some other source including the robot (Mindstorms) set. Or you can call LEGO Educational (aka Pitsco) at the number in the Coaches' Handbook and ask for replacement parts.
-Skye - Message by: L3813 09/14/2005 02:52:31 GMT
What my team found helpful was to count all of the parts and sort them out before we began to build so that we were sure that all of the parts were there so that we did not run into problems later - Message by: Marshfield 10/18/2005 19:55:20 GMT
At first it seemed as though our kit also had missing pieces, however it turned out that some of the kids used incorrect pieces in building some of the components of the challenge missions and once we figured that out we found all the missing pieces.
Hello, we are a team in Columbia, Missouri, USA, and we are attempting to assemble our mission pieces. However, we are missing several (enough to make it obvious that we are missing one or more "baggies") lego pieces.
Unfortunately, neither FLL or Pitsco is willing to help. They want us to do a complete inventory of all parts (as you know, there are a LOT of parts!) and compare it to the parts list on the CD. It would be much faster if someone out there who has yet to open their "baggies" could look through them for us. Here are the pieces we have discovered so far:
-2 black tubes used on the submarine.(step 8).
-Bright blue connectors used on things like the protective structure (step 4), pump station (step 4), and pipeline (step 7).
-Grey axles 3 units long used on things like the pipeline (steps 2, 4, etc).
-Black connector with a female on one side and a longer axle on the other used on step 6 of the pump station.
-Grey 1 X 2 flat piece with slits used in step 5 of the submarine.
-White 2 X 4 white block used in step 6 of the Dolphin.
-Grey 1 X 2 flat piece with two bumps used in step 2 of the dolphin.
-Grey 1 X 1 X 1 piece used behind the eyes of the dolphin (step 4) and grey fish (step 3).
The small blue 1/2peg-1/2axle pieces should stand out like a sore thumb. If you could find the baggie(s) that contain(s) these parts and inventory just that bag, we could submit that list to Pitsco for replacement.
Thank you for helping us,
Columbia Robotics Team 1799 "The Firebolts"
- Message by: tigers2563 09/13/2005 15:24:55 GMT
We need to keep in touch I too have missing parts. We haven't inventories quite as colsely as you have. I will have the kids to that on Thursday when we meet.
Beth - Message by: Underwater Robodocs 09/14/2005 09:10:31 GMT
I've always received exemplary support from FLL and Pitsco. I imagine any perceived lack of response from them is more due to the heavy load they are certainly under at the moment.
I believe it is quite rare for sets to be missing pieces, but it could happen. This is where the spirit of FLL comes into play. There should be local teams willing to help out. My sons and I have a LEGO collection that drives my wife crazy :-). I would be more than happy to assist any teams in the South San Francisco Bay Area with replacement parts - you can email me at: sdakin@sdakin.com.
Lastly, although it helps to have the mission models built exactly to spec, you can get quite a bit done by improvising.
Good luck!
=Steve - Message by: Firebolts1799 09/15/2005 18:40:59 GMT
Thanks to Gina in NY for contacting us and helping us identify our missing pieces. Thank you so much for your help!
Columbia Robotics Team 1799 "The Firebolts"
Are dual locks provided free this year? I can't seem to find any in the mat and FLL lego boxes.
- Message by: KaoticMentor 09/18/2005 02:23:35 GMT
Yes, dual lock should have been in your kit. For replacement parts, go to page 96 of your Coaches' Handbook (the orange and black book; hopefully you got that in your kit!) for contact information.
-Glenn - Message by: Robot Friends Too 2271 09/18/2005 04:34:12 GMT
Just to make sure, in case you are new like me. Did you look in your field setup kit box? The one that had all of the Lego pieces for the missions. The dual lock fasteners were in there. They were in squares that were about 6x6 and looked white. You may have thought they were part of some sort of paperwork or something, or they got stuck to the plastic packaging. Just a few thoughts. If none of this helps, just let your area FLL rep know and they will help. I know that mine here in Florida is just the best! - Message by: kentbots2325 09/21/2005 21:24:41 GMT
What if we lost our dual lock? Where do we get more "official" dual lock? Also lost our building instructions CD, but we found another team nearby to let us have the instructions. Sigh. - Message by: fll-freak 09/21/2005 21:26:19 GMT
It is my understanding that Radio Shack sells Dual-Lock. If not, read page 96 of the Handbook for replacement information.
-Skye - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/21/2005 21:54:44 GMT
The other team that you got the cd from, maybe they have extra. This stuff is expensive! - Message by: VO Wildcats 388 09/24/2005 18:17:33 GMT
OK so I did get the dual lock. I suppose it is to attach the pipeline to the mat but have not found specific direction yet. Anyone know? - Message by: fll-freak 09/24/2005 19:04:38 GMT
Sure. Its in one of the critical documents you should read!
Read the FLL Coaches' Handbook. This is the orange and black paperback book that came with your materials from FIRST.
Read the Rules. Available here: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15870
Read the Mission Descriptions. Available here: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15910
Read the Table Setup instructions. Available here: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15880
Read the latest version of the Q&A. Available here: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15920
Read the Unofficial FAQ. Available here: http://www.fll-freak.com/faq
Hint: Look in the Table Setup.
-Skye
Any one in the Boston area. OUr order was not processed. we are desperate to share or buy a set please contact afox@paraclete.org or call 617268-5552
- Message by: BooneBricksters824 10/11/2005 17:47:50 GMT
We are in the same situation. Our field setup kit was not shipped and now it's too late to get one from Pitsco.
Anyone in any area, please contact me and we'll buy your field kit and pay to ship it. (Talk to the original poster in Boston first; we're in line behind them.)
jhoffman@iastate.edu - Message by: BooneBricksters824 10/24/2005 16:12:25 GMT
We were able to borrow a field kit. Whew!
Folder: Field Setup 11/12/2005 07:32:35 GMT
We dont know if we have the flags Right. The problem is when the first flag is raised the base of that flag holds down the next flag Etc.
Discussion: Flag problem. By: fll-freak 10/21/2005 06:06:12 GMT
You need to read the following web page at least weekly.
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15920
-Skye
- Message by: Determined Angles 3423 10/19/2005 03:18:33 GMT
The problem is not like on the posting the problem is in just trying to get more than one flag up!once one is up it prevents the next one from going up! - Message by: redrobots1851 10/21/2005 06:04:32 GMT
You posted a mission question in the field set up area then. It appears that you should refer to the following link for "Conduct a Transect Mapping" http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?230@@.ee985b2
Hope this helps.
Phil Martin
were are having trouble knowing where the dolphing and "net" thing goes. we think that it goes in front of the white ship but i dont know...
- Message by: botsquad2672 11/12/2005 07:32:35 GMT
Hello stannes3397,
The dolphin net (sling) is to be centered at the middle of the north wall (the side with the ship and the artifact). It is to be 46.5 inches from the end according to the blueprint from FLL. You can check it out at http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15880 then go set that dolphin free! Hope that helps.
Coach "what am I doing, reading the Lego Forum at 12:30 in the morning" Greg Call
Folder: LEGO Questions (not programming) 02/08/2006 23:03:37 GMT
Discussion: Help!!Missing parts! By: Firebolts1799 12/01/2005 03:25:27 GMT
Hello, we are a team in Columbia, Missouri, USA, and we are attempting to assemble our mission pieces. However, we are missing several (enough to make it obvious that we are missing one or more "baggies") lego pieces.
Unfortunately, neither FLL or Pitsco is willing to help. They want us to do a complete inventory of all parts (as you know, there are a LOT of parts!) and compare it to the parts list on the CD. It would be much faster if someone out there who has yet to open their "baggies" could look through them for us. Here are the pieces we have discovered so far:
-2 black tubes used on the submarine.(step 8).
-Bright blue connectors used on things like the protective structure (step 4), pump station (step 4), and pipeline (step 7).
-Grey axles 3 units long used on things like the pipeline (steps 2, 4, etc).
-Black connector with a female on one side and a longer axle on the other used on step 6 of the pump station.
-Grey 1 X 2 flat piece with slits used in step 5 of the submarine.
-White 2 X 4 white block used in step 6 of the Dolphin.
-Grey 1 X 2 flat piece with two bumps used in step 2 of the dolphin.
-Grey 1 X 1 X 1 piece used behind the eyes of the dolphin (step 4) and grey fish (step 3).
The small blue 1/2peg-1/2axle pieces should stand out like a sore thumb. If you could find the baggie(s) that contain(s) these parts and inventory just that bag, we could submit that list to Pitsco for replacement.
Thank you for helping us,
Columbia Robotics Team 1799 "The Firebolts"
- Message by: Shark Attackers853 09/13/2005 04:43:15 GMT
Missing parts are addressed in folder on equipment needed. You might get a response if you post there. Sorry, we have already opened all of our packages. Good luck getting your problem resolved. - Message by: Firebolts1799 09/13/2005 05:12:23 GMT
Thanks, I will cross post there also.
CRT 1799 "The Firebolts" - Message by: Challengers336 09/28/2005 23:43:29 GMT
McAuliffe Challengers, Team 336...we are short one of the small black angles, number 5. It is not illegal to substitute from an old field set up kit is it? The only thing we could find was a grey one, though. Is that a problem? Thanks! - Message by: fll-freak 09/29/2005 00:39:16 GMT
Go for it. Unless you are somehow using the light sensor against this part, the color should not matter. The fact you substitute an otherwise identical part should not matter to the operation of the model. Nothing in the rules says you can't!
-Skye - Message by: oompaloompa blitz719 12/01/2005 03:25:27 GMT
Try ebay
Our Lego robot set and mat just arrived. How can I tell which pieces are for the field set-up vs. the robot?
Is the green colored bin representative of something?
- Message by: DigiDudes2168 09/14/2005 02:34:19 GMT
The field set up parts will come in a separate box from the robot and the mat. There will be a CD in the box, number 9762 that contains the OO Challenge set up instructions.
The green bin can be used to store robot parts (usually, you need more space than that, though).
Hope this helps.
k
We don't have a dedicated practice room; so, we have to set up and tear down each practice. I'm looking for lego storage ideas. I've looked at tool boxes. They would work for large pieces, but don't have enough small bins for small parts and don't have a lid to keep pieces from spilling from one compartment to the other.
Someone recommended fishing tackle boxes. I looked at Wall-Mart. They had some with lots of small bins and lids. They look good for sorting and storing small pieces, but won't handle larger pieces.
What have other people used? Where can you find them? (We have a limited budget)
Bob
- Message by: Yellow Brick Roaders 2637 09/17/2005 17:30:28 GMT
I've found some suitable boxes at Home Depot. However they seem to change their stock rapidly, so you're never sure what you'll find there. These are parts boxes with lids that fasten down over the bins to prevent spilling and mixing.
Seeing that you're in New Hampshire, you may be able to get to You Do It Electronics in Needham, MA (a bit south of the intersection of the Mass. Turnpike and I95). They have a wide assortment of parts boxes. Unfortunately their website is terrible so you'll have to make the trip to see what they have.
Another possibility is to use large (2-3 qt) tupperware-like containers. You can save space by partially filling them and then nesting them. Of course you have to keep the stack from falling over by storing the stack(s) in a box or file tote.
Doug - Message by: RoboDogs1842 09/17/2005 17:33:37 GMT
We have the same problem. The pipeline and Research Vessel don't fit in our tackle boxes.
Our two tackle boxes work great though. We bought them both from Walmart ($13 & $18).
One has 3 removable clear boxes with lots of subcompartments for axles, bushings, pulleys etc. The other is a standard box that folds out and has plenty of legnth for the bricks and plates. Plus, a large space under the trays for holding our 'bot.
K - Message by: Robot Friends 469 09/17/2005 19:44:55 GMT
Stanley tools makes a great storage container. They sell them at Walmart and at Lowes and at Home Depot. They can be hard to find though because they don't carry them in large supply. They look like black plastic brief cases with clear tops. They have individual yellow containers that can be removed and reorganize within the cases. They also come in different sizes and depths. They have handles and they yellow boxes are locked in place when the lid is closed so they will not move. The cases can stack and I then purchased a collapsible dolly that holds them and a bin for the guilt robot on top and the entire setup is portable and fits in my car. Hope that helps.. sorry I am one of those over the top organizational freaks. - Message by: MA_HeadRef_2894 09/17/2005 21:21:59 GMT
The Plano stuff at Walmart can't really be beat. Look in the fishing section. For big stuff, just get the bigger plastic tubs. - Message by: Robot Friends 469 09/17/2005 21:30:27 GMT
If you want inexpensive, you can go to the Dollar store too. They have large bins. If you are a real thrifter type person, when you go in to any store always ask to speak to the manager and ask if they would like to donate the items to your team and be a sponsor. - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 09/20/2005 16:57:57 GMT
I got the largest tackle box at Wal-Mart that had adjustable plastic dividers in the pull out plastic containers. Then I went to the dollar store and got a small tool box that was completely empty inside for the tires and such. And Rubbermaid storage containers for the field set-up pieces. Carla :)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI - Message by: Future Robotics 09/26/2005 05:35:03 GMT
Doug,
Thanks for the tip. I checked out Home Depot. They have a Black & Decker storage unit that is similar to some tackle boxes I've seen. It comes with 4 plastic boxes with adjustable dividers. They fit into an orange container with a handle. The unit sells for just under $10. I bought 2 to organize all of the small parts.
Bob - Message by: ROAMschoolers1498 10/02/2005 02:08:42 GMT
AC Moore sells boxes in the beading dept. for $1.99, and Lowe's home center sells slightly larger ones with adjustable sections in the Storage dept. for $3.99.
We got everything in about 4 of each. - Message by: Shark Attackers853 10/02/2005 03:18:15 GMT
Our team is using Plano fishing tackle box #8500. I think I read somewhere that Skye had recommended a similar one. Purchased at Walmart for under $20.00. It carries all of our mindstorm pieces and an assembled robot in the bottom. The top portions fold out and stay balanced, so no tip overs, at least not yet.
We are just using a cardboard box to store our mission models. - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/03/2005 20:23:02 GMT
My favorite storage unit is the snap on parts organizer. Sometimes the guy in the truck will give them to you at a good discount as a donation.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=storage&item_ID=16840&group_ID=53&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
-Laura - Message by: fll-freak 10/03/2005 20:37:52 GMT
I have given up on such wimpy storage containers! I have resorted to gallon sized freezer bags, peanut butter jars, and large bins for parts.
-Skye - Message by: Aquatic_Configurators_22 10/18/2005 16:22:28 GMT
http://tinyurl.com/clwu2
Stow N Go Organizer
Portable stowaway rack organizer is perfect for many of your organizational needs. Red; 16in. x 12in. x 10in. U.S.A.
We use these, they work very well. - Message by: The Amazing Sea Monkeys 1423 10/22/2005 16:29:36 GMT
If you have anyone on the team with a baby brother or sister you can use the baby food jars. If you don't want to use the glass containers then there are also plastic ones. These are good for small pieces. - Message by: redrobots1851 11/01/2005 07:25:17 GMT
I found 64 drawer and 44 drawer plastic containers at ACE Hardware here in Michigan and I've seen them somewhere on FLL's website but I can't remember where. There were cheaper at ACE Hardware at $20 each. I took the two containers I bought and expanded around them a bit. This may give others some ideas. It has certainly been a helpful portable storage solution for our team. I've included some pictures to give you an idea of what we did.
Phil Martin - Message by: 11/01/2005 07:27:24 GMT
Deleted - Message by: 11/01/2005 07:30:11 GMT
Deleted - Message by: 11/01/2005 07:40:50 GMT
Deleted - Message by: 11/01/2005 07:45:06 GMT
Deleted - Message by: 11/01/2005 07:46:44 GMT
Deleted - Message by: redrobots1851 11/01/2005 07:52:26 GMT
I can't post my 2.28MB PDF file. Any suggestions? Maybe I'll just do the JPEGs without the descriptions.
Phil Martin - Message by: redrobots1851 11/03/2005 03:56:49 GMT
I split the one page of pictures into 5 so here it goes. I hope this will give some teams some ideas of how to keep things organized. Now I just have to figure out how to expand this thing when we get more and more pieces year after year. I'm running out of drawer space almost already. Maybe a double decker is in line for the next design.
Phil Martin - Message by: redrobots1851 11/03/2005 03:57:33 GMT
Page #2 - Message by: redrobots1851 11/03/2005 03:58:11 GMT
Page #3 - Message by: redrobots1851 11/03/2005 03:58:46 GMT
Page #4 - Message by: redrobots1851 11/03/2005 03:59:30 GMT
Page #5 of 5 - Message by: GMT
Shipping container - the doors don't agree with the plan. The hinges on the plan begin as 2bumps but later becom 4bumps. We just adapted ours by adding a small plate at the bottom of the door.
Pipeline - doesn't connect in the middle
Anyone else with building problems
K
- Message by: KaoticMentor 09/17/2005 17:46:54 GMT
I had no problems building the mission models. As for the pipeline, there has been extensive discussion about the problems that can be found at:
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?230@@.ee98342
Hope this helps,
-Glenn - Message by: Team O.R.B. 09/19/2005 01:08:50 GMT
In regards the pipeline, the answer is under "Field Setup Instructions" located here:
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15880
We had no problems with any of the other structures. Good luck.
Shay
Coach of Team O.R.B. - Message by: whitewolves391 09/27/2005 17:54:51 GMT
The White Wolves are also having problems with the pipe line. The picture shows 1 thing and the directions say another. I have talked to other teams and they are saying the same thing. I think our pipe line is to long because it doesn't line up on the mat. Any help would be appreciated. - Message by: fll-freak 09/27/2005 18:01:06 GMT
Please read the field setup instructions VERY carefuly. An error in printing the mat requires you place the pipeline supports off the outlines on the mat. If it still does not work properly, then you need to double check how you built the models.
Field Setup: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15880
-Skye - Message by: aquamarineguardians3782 09/28/2005 17:31:27 GMT
the guardains also have had problems with building the shipping container. the doors wont really open the way they should. also we arent sure how long it will take us to build the sunken vessal.:(
-kyle - Message by: fll-freak 09/28/2005 17:49:19 GMT
This year the research ship was rather difficult to make. It took me and my son several hours and a few false starts. The team my son mentors had issues as well. It is probably a model to be built in a relative calm environment as it takes concentration!
The doors on the shipping container open and close very nicely. If yours do not, you have not assembled them properly.
The models do take time and considerable skill to assemble. Working in pairs with one person finding the parts, the other assembling, and the first double checking seems to work fairly well. It always helps to have an experienced LEGO builder at hand to 'read' the tricky instructions.
-Skye - Message by: oompaloompa blitz719 10/07/2005 23:43:52 GMT
i am a lego league kid and i am trying to make our robot go fast for the sprint to the dolphin cage in the beginning. This is my first year and i was trying to use the 40-tooth gear on the motor and the 8-tooth gear on the wheels, but my wheels won't move. Does anyone have suggestions as to what the "fastest" possible gearing is. (any other tips&tricks are welcome) - Message by: KaoticMentor 10/09/2005 02:24:24 GMT
In short, your wheels are having trouble moving because of the lack of torque... With a faster "speed" in the gearing, you begin to lose force. So, it's up to you as a teammember to find a gear ratio that gives you the right balance of torque to speed for your robot and what you're trying to do. However, there is a pdf file you can find here that has information on gear ratios in it.
-Glenn - Message by: oompaloompa blitz719 10/07/2005 23:47:14 GMT
as an answer to robodogs question, i built the shipping container and my doors work fine. i suggest finding an experiened lego builder near you and asking them for help - Message by: oompaloompa blitz719 10/07/2005 23:49:35 GMT
also, on the western half of the pipeline, you dual lock it so the little yellow bases that the pipe line sits on to the right of the printed squares so that the western edge is touching the estern edge of the printed square. do the opposite for the eastern half. the center goes where it is printed
How do the parts of the floor of te container fit together?
GreenAppleCybers
- Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/27/2005 18:37:59 GMT
The what?
-Laura - Message by: fll-freak 09/27/2005 18:41:12 GMT
75% probability: The red plates that make the bottom of the shipping container.
-Skye - Message by: KaoticMentor 09/27/2005 21:58:59 GMT
My best advice would be to look at the directions that came on the CD. While sometimes the pictures can be hard to interpret, if you sit there and count the little studs you can normally figure out what's going on. Remember, the directions are not suggestions! If you're still having problems make sure you've made the other parts correctly.
-Glenn
We are having problems with step on page 4 the red piece does not fit in the black piece -help!
- Message by: fll-freak 09/27/2005 16:39:25 GMT
It will be almost impossible for us to help you with these types of problems over the internet. What I suggest you do is find an experienced LEGO builder that can sit down with you and help. Perhaps the coach, or a parent, or an older sibling might be able to help.
-Skye
The rules state that we can use any lego piece. Does this mean that we can use the stickers or decals that come with some of the store bought lego kits?
- Message by: fll-freak 10/23/2005 01:58:40 GMT
Wow, In the years I have been doing this, this has never come up. Stickers are not allowed as per rule 6. But if you had some bricks that already had LEGO stickers on them, I do not know. I think if it was obvioud this was not effecting the performance of the robot, then I would probably allow it. If the stickers were being used to hold things together than I would not.
-Skye - Message by: MA_HeadRef_2894 10/23/2005 04:06:47 GMT
This has come up. The answer was no. Only the "parts". The containers, packaging, and sticker/decal sheets are not included. - Message by: tigers 10/26/2005 21:50:32 GMT
Capacitors? are we allowed to use them? - Message by: fll-freak 10/26/2005 21:57:59 GMT
Is a capacitor an electrical part? (yes)
Is the capacitor on the list of allowable electical parts? Read rule 6!
-Skye
Can we make a lego "template" for lining up the robot in the start position for each mission? The template would be put in the base area for robot placement, then removed before the mission was started.
- Message by: fll-freak 10/23/2005 02:31:46 GMT
Yes you can as long as the jig is made of LEGO.
-Skye - Message by: oaklandtechrunners444 10/24/2005 18:22:48 GMT
If the jig is completely within the base, you don't even have to remove it before starting. Jigs are excellent devices for aiming.
Hi,
My team has built a robot but it turns on its own. We've checked the symmetry, the weight, the gearing, the motors and are at a loss of what to do. We'll change the tires or the gears and it will go straight for a 2-3 times but then gets a curvature. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks!
- Message by: KaoticMentor 11/02/2005 13:16:10 GMT
It may be that you have two mis-matched motors. Even if both seem to be working properly, it may be that one can generate just a tiny bit of torque than another. Try switching the two motors you have with each other (so motor X is now where motor Y is and visa versa). If that doesn't change anything you could also check to make sure you don't have a collet or bushing with too much pressure against a beam, or that the beams themselves don't have problems.
-Glenn - Message by: oompaloompa blitz719 11/12/2005 18:09:38 GMT
We have a robot that drifts slighty to the right instead of going straight. Does anyone know why this might be? We are using two motors, one each on two axels plus a rotation sensor on the back axel. - Message by: fll-freak 11/12/2005 23:53:45 GMT
Do some searching of the forum. Try the orange search button and use keywords like hook and straight. You should find conversations already in progress on this topic.
-Skye
Are wheels better to use than treads?
- Message by: fll-freak 11/03/2005 15:41:07 GMT
Is french toast better than pancakes?
Each have their good and bad points. Try some experiments to see what works for YOU.
-Skye
Our robot needs to travel straight over a long distance. We have tested and matched the engines, checked the tightness of the hubs, cleaned the treads, balanced the robot, created a fake rotation sensor to off set any friction caused by the real one, and we still find our robot drifting ... any ideas?
Thanks Lucinda
- Message by: fll-freak 11/07/2005 19:41:05 GMT
1) When life gives you lemons, make lemonaid. A solution is not to fix the problem, but to work around it. Drive forward, make a small adjustment, drive forward, ...
2) Swap the wheels from side to side. Swap the way the wheel is put on one side. Not all wheels are identical.
3) Add friction to the side what runs faster.
4) Investigate limited slip differentials.
Without seing the amount of drift, you probably are doing as well as can be expected without taking extraordinary measures (like the limited slip).
-Skye - Message by: oompaloompa blitz719 11/12/2005 18:18:16 GMT
could you tell me how to add friction and explain what a limited slip diffential is???
thanx - Message by: fll-freak 11/12/2005 20:25:48 GMT
You can add friction to an axle by squeezing a gear or collet against the beam that is used to support it.
-Skye - Message by: CGMSC2605 11/12/2005 19:03:27 GMT
There are two kinds of limited slip differentials described in BLRforFLL-Version1.3, one using ribbed tubing (very simple) and a more complex design using a slip gear, 5 regular gears and a differential.
There is a newer design called the "Eagle Overdrive" that also works well here.
how do you use a rotation sensor?
- Message by: fll-freak 11/09/2005 13:51:59 GMT
Use the forum search feature to find many discussions on this topic.
Can't give you any direct help as you have not told us what programming language you are using (RIS or Robolab).
Try visiting the "Library" at the hightechkids website for basic tutorials. See the links here for the URL.
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?13@@.ee98a8f
-Skye - Message by: IA FLL Moderator 11/09/2005 20:08:32 GMT
The rotation sensor works by counting the number of times the axle attached to it rotates. It clicks once for every 1/16 of a revolution of the axle. So, in one time around the circle, it clicks 16 times. When it rotates the other direction, it clicks negative numbers. When programming with rotation sensors, you need to know how many *clicks* the sensor will count to make the robot go a certain distance.
In learning to do this, it is easiest to use the same size gears on the sensor, motor and wheel. If these 3 gears are different sizes you will have to change your answer. Suppose you want your robot to go exactly 3 feet (or 36 inches) and then stop, and all of your gears are the same size. To do this, first find the circumference, the distance along the circular edge, of the sensor gear. You do this by multiplying the diameter (width) of the gear by the special number called pi, which is about 3.14. When the wheel rolls once all the way around, it should travel exactly this distance along the circular edge.
First, to find the number of rotations needed to go 36 inches, take 36 and divide it by the circumference. Then, since the program uses "clicks" instead of rotations, multiply the number of rotations that we calculated times 16, the number of clicks in every rotation. For example: If the circumference of the wheel happens to be 2 inches, then it would take 36/2 = 18 rotations to travel the whole distance. So, the program would have to count out 18*16 = 288 clicks.
If the gears are different sizes, you will need to multiply your previous answer by gear ratios. You have to do this because a large gear will take more distance to go once around than a smaller gear. By comparing their ratios, you can fix this problem and calculate how much the big one has to spin in order to turn the smaller one a certain distance. Gear ratios are the number of teeth on one gear divided by the number of teeth on another gear (the number of teeth of each gear can be found on the gear next to a lower case z). For programming, you need two ratios: the ratio of the motor gear to the rotation sensor gear (divide motor gear teeth by rotation sensor teeth) and the ratio of the wheel gear to the motor gear (divide wheel gear teeth by motor gear teeth). Multiply these two ratios by the answer from before and you will have the number of clicks to type into your program to tell the robot how far to move.
For example, if you want your robot to go 2 and a half feet, which is 30 inches, divide 30 inches by the circumference. Then take that answer and multiply it by 16. Then multiply that answer by the two gear ratios and you are done. If you are using three medium sized 24 tooth gears, the number of clicks should come out to be around 153 clicks.
Hope this helps - good luck! - Message by: summitleague4827 11/15/2005 15:26:37 GMT
We have another question. We understand that only one rotation sensor can be used per the rules. But could you have a second rotation sensor in the robot if it was not connected? The team is using two motors, and the difference in friction on the side of the robot with the sensor is causing some drift. They would like to install a sensor on the other side just so both sides are exactly the same.
Thanks... - Message by: SMART 11/15/2005 15:36:41 GMT
No, the limits on electrical parts are absolute. You may not bring the extra to the table at all.
This has always been the rule, but this year it was specifically addressed in the Q&A at http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15920 - "QA26 Limits For Electrical Parts".
However, if you search around the forums, or on the web you'll find that there are ways to make other sensors behave as rotation sensors if your team decides this is a "must have". They're not that hard to make, but the programming can be a bit tricky and depending on your robot design may be difficult to place on the robot effectively. Good luck.
I would also recommend that you look in the Coaches Guide. There is a tip in there (don't have the page number) about mounting your rotation sensor loosely. This is important to avoid the kind of friction based veering you are seeing. May not solve all your problems, but it could help.
Regards,
Peter - Message by: fll-freak 11/15/2005 15:38:13 GMT
This issue has come up in the past relative to motors. A team wanted to use a fourth electric motor simply for its size/shape/weight and not as a motor. It was decided that this would violate the materials rule.
You can always take exception to this and send an email to FIRST via the instructions in rule 36.
As for the rotation sensor, many teams find that not locking the part in place using the studs, but to let it "dangle like a loose tooth" is the better approach. I seem to remember something in the Coaches' Handbook on this.
-Skye - Message by: oompaloompa blitz719 11/19/2005 03:26:17 GMT
hi, my robot has 4 wheels abd it is not moving straight. there is a rotation sensor on one of the axles, so i put 2 bushings on the other axel because i thought that would balance it. Can someone help me - Message by: fll-freak 11/20/2005 03:44:05 GMT
Try to go straight is the biggest problem FLL teams come accross. There has been lots of discussion on this problem already. You the search feature to look for the words Straight, Limited, Slip, and Differential. That should put you in the right spot in the forum to catch up on a lot of reading!
-Skye
How many sensors can we have on the robot at a time? Can we use 2 light sensors? Laura Cvrk
- Message by: botsquad2672 11/19/2005 04:18:02 GMT
Hello Siouxnami858,
You can double-check my answers against the FLL Rules page but you are allowed 1 rotation sensor, 2 light sensors, 2 touch sensors, and 1 lamp. The rules page is here: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15870
I recommed reading it through thoroughly. Hope your're having fun :-)
Coach Greg Call
SOMEONE STOLED OUR SUBMARINE. PLEASE HELP!
- Message by: technomaniacs2180 12/01/2005 00:07:03 GMT
Hello, we are the Technomaniacs and just recently our submarine was stolen and we really needed it to practice with, if you can will someone please help us, We greatly appreciate it!
Thank-You,
The Technomaniacs - Message by: SMART 12/01/2005 04:52:49 GMT
I think it uses fairly common parts for the most part. Are you sure you don't have the parts to rebuild it? It may not end up the right color, but as long as the parts are the same it should still work.
- Peter
I'm looking ahead to next year. To help my team, I want to run some training classes on Technic building techniques. I want to be able to give each of up to 5 kids enough parts to build the things in Building Robots with LEGO Mindstorms chapters 1, 2, 5 (beams, plates, pins, lift arms, gears, etc.).
We only have 1 Mindstorm kit for the team. I've been looking at Brinklink, etc. for Technic parts. There doesn't seem to be the Technic equivalent to a bucket of LEGOs. Any ideas on the best way to build up the pieces I need without breaking the bank?
I'd really like to find a way to offer a class for ~ $30 - $50 / child and let them bring the pieces and instructions home.
Bob
Future Robotics
Team 2072
- Message by: fll-freak 12/04/2005 15:53:40 GMT
The Klutz book company offers a LEGO contraption kit. It is not very expensive and has a enough part to make a few simple devices.
Besides Bricklink, try looking at the part kits sold by LEGO and by Pitso-LEGO-Dacta. Pitsco is the educational arm of LEGO and has many kits taylored for the school setting. But they do tend to be expensive.
-Skye
After some use on our robots, the 1/2" rubber tires all develpo the same problem: the wheel turns with the motor, but the rubber tires do not!
Is it legal to use some tape or other method to get the rubber tire to fit the wheel?
Help!
(This is one day before our first tournament!)
Thanks,
Gina Ironside
Co-coach
Robo-Ronin, NY
- Message by: IA FLL Moderator 02/08/2006 22:27:47 GMT
you cannot use tape on your robot -- the rules state that you have to use all LEGO trademarked products - Message by: SMART 02/08/2006 22:35:30 GMT
No, you can only use LEGO in original condition. The only time you could use tape would be to cover the IR port on the RCX (special rule added this year).
I see you are from NY. The only tournament I know of coming up in NY is this weekend. I'll be attending as some of my team are mentoring a Junior FLL team. I'd be happy to help you out, but need more information.
1. What is the half inch tire?
Please have a look at this link...
http://www.peeron.com/cgi-bin/invcgis/inv/sets/3804-1?withpics=yes
This is a list of all the parts in the standard mindstorms kit.
2. If it is one of these please reply to me - if you click on my team name you'll get my email address with the id number of the part
3. How can I get it to you? Some options...
- I work in New York City (downtown) so perhaps I could meet you somewhere.
- I could try to send it to you, but doubt I could get it to you before Friday
- I could bring it with me to the tournament that day (we'd probably be getting there about 8:30)
If it turns out that you can't get it before the tournament then I would suggest the following as a last resort (and this will only work if it is a relatively common wheel)
1. Use the tape to secure the rubber to the wheel, but make sure the tape doesn't touch the Matt at any time.
2. Test your robot that way till the competition.
3. When you get to the competition, borrow the wheel's you need from another team. If they are standard size wheels then it shouldn't be hard to find another team willing to help out (or I can bring them too)
4. Test your robot with the new wheels on the practice board being ready to make some last minute programming adjustments. This is pretty much a given if you are switching wheels, and the matts at the competition will be "new" so you'd probably have to plan for that anyway.
Hope this has been helpful and please feel free to reach out to me.
Regards,
Peter - Message by: SMART 02/08/2006 22:37:08 GMT
Also, if you are farther away and would like to try to get it sooner - another option is to call the tournament director running the tournament you are going to. They _may_ have contact information for a team close to you that may be able to help.
- Peter - Message by: fll-freak 02/08/2006 23:03:37 GMT
A solution my team used one year was to wrap a LEGO belt/rubber band around the yellow hub and then put on the tire. This gave enough extra friction to hold the tire in place.
-Skye
Folder: Motors 12/07/2005 17:27:51 GMT
Discussion: Motors By: Limit Busters 198 10/18/2005 12:16:57 GMT
Can we use the old style 9 volt motors?
- Message by: fll-freak 09/10/2005 00:03:44 GMT
Last year the rules was only the 9 volt gear reduction motors that come in the Mindstorms kit were allowed. Of course this is a bit more complicated as there are actualy two different styles of 9 volt gear reduction motors. The new and old style. The new style is about 1/2 the weight and generates only slightly less torque than the old style.
I would expect this rule to remain the same for OO.
-Skye - Message by: ScienceGoesBoink002 09/11/2005 23:51:00 GMT
In the past, my team has read about other teams putting the LEGO wind-up motors to good use. They are eager to try them this year. Will the same ruling (that the motor limitation is only with respect to electric motors) be in effect this year?
Thanks! - Message by: fll-freak 09/12/2005 00:13:21 GMT
No way to know for sure but to wait for this years rules to be published.
-Skye - Message by: tsunamis 09/12/2005 03:21:56 GMT
I have quite a few motors, some from older sets. How do you indentify the "older" style motors? - Message by: fll-freak 09/12/2005 03:44:51 GMT
There are a few tiny details that differentiate the older motors from the new style. The BIG difference is weight. The new motors are nearly 1/2 the weight.
A google search of "LEGO gear motor 9V" found this website: http://www.philohome.com/motors/motorcomp.htm
Pocking around here found this: http://www.philohome.com/motors/motor.htm
-Skye - Message by: 09/15/2005 04:06:14 GMT
Deleted - Message by: RoboManiacs 09/15/2005 04:07:26 GMT
The wind-up motors will indeed be legal this year. There are, however, some specific limitations to their use written into the rules. See rule #11 - strategic objects.
RoboManiacs
Team #11
RoboManiacs Web Home - Message by: monkeys701 09/13/2005 03:58:12 GMT
The old motors have a serial number that begins with a "7", located on the bottom of the motor. The new motors have a serial number that begins with a "4", located on the bottom of the motor. The old motors spin much more freely than the new ones when spun by hand. We think there are pros and cons with each motor. The main thing is not to use two mismatched motors. - Message by: deepseabuilders468 09/15/2005 14:59:37 GMT
Can you tell me what a wind-up motor is or where I can find info on it? I did a search on the Lego site but no results were found. - Message by: fll-freak 09/15/2005 15:05:16 GMT
Visit www.bricklink.com and use "pull back motor" in the search field.
A pull back or windup motor is a motor that runs on a spring and not electricity. Several types are available from Bricklink as well as from LEGO. The ones from LEGO are included in some of their Designer Sets.
-Skye - Message by: SMART 09/15/2005 17:56:47 GMT
Two excellent resources:
http://www.peeron.com for an outstanding online inventory of just about every lego piece ever made fully searchable by set, partname, type of part, etc.
http://www.bricklink.com the place to find and buy parts individually when needed.
Cheers,
Peter - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/16/2005 23:02:24 GMT
Be careful buying used pull-back and go motors, they wear out fast. I've found the best place to but them is at KBToys. They are always on clearance. You can pick up a motorcycle or small car for around $5.
-Laura - Message by: stmichaels#1407 09/18/2005 21:23:57 GMT
Ok, I think I have new and old 9V motors. The old ones are those that come with the Mindstorms kit and the new ones are the 'Electric Technic Motor 9V Geared (480 RPM)' (47154) that come with the Motor Movers kit. I know from having looked at prior year designs on the web that they have been legal in the past (http://www.haciendarobotics.com/projects/ck03/index.html). Just wondering if these new ones are legal to use this year.. I would assume so but I have assumed incorrectly before.
Thanks,
Lloyd O'Hara St. Michaels #1407 - Message by: fll-freak 09/18/2005 23:21:36 GMT
If this is the motor you have (http://www.peeron.com/inv/parts/47154) then I do not think they are legal. Only the new and old style 9 volt gear reduction motors were deemed legal last year. Now these motors are fairly new and may not have considered. I would consider asking FIRST for a rulling using the above link.
-Skye - Message by: Underwater Robodocs 10/06/2005 22:20:53 GMT
Lloyd,
I'm the webmaster of haciendarobotics.com and the link you posted is to the robot my team built in 2003. Just to be clear: that year the new style Motor Movers motors, as shown in that design, were legal. This year they are not.
In my experience those motors provide some advantages but they're not clearly better than the older style motors. I really like the flat bottom of the new motors and the axle "port" vs. a fixed axle, but the new motors do consume more power. We went through more batteries in '03 than in any other year (the dual diff drivetrain in that 'bot didn't help either due to the increased friction).
=Steve - Message by: stmichaels#1407 10/14/2005 03:02:33 GMT
Thanks for the update. I had seen that the newer motors were no longer legal. My original assumption was, legal then, legal now. But of course we all know about assumptions.
Thanks,
Lloyd - Message by: NRFLL3315 10/18/2005 10:33:51 GMT
IS IT POSSIBLE TO SLOW DOWN THE SPEED OF THE MOTORSBY USING RIS? I'M AWARE THIS COULD BE DONE BY GEARING DOWN, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF IT COULD BE DONE THRU PROGRAMMING. - Message by: KaoticMentor 10/18/2005 12:16:57 GMT
Yes and no. I believe in RIS you can adjust the power level of the motors. This will simply adjust how much electricity is given to the motor, which can weaken or strenghten it. If you have a heavy robot, this can speed it up and slow it down, at the cost of having as much torque output on the motors. That would prevent you from being able to push as much weight.
-Glenn
Last year our team used a dual direct drive drive train to power the robot. We tried to balance the motors and used different powers to try and get the robot to go straight. Obviously, this didn't work the best. To improve the robot, the team is looking at limited slip differentials using either a clutch gear or tubing. Other than the fact that clutch gears tend to wear out and the tubing doesn't are there any advantages of one over the other or will they both perform about the same.
Thanks,
Lloyd O'Hara, St Michaels Team #1407
- Message by: fll-freak 09/15/2005 12:42:57 GMT
We used tubing on our robot and over time it does wear out. The behaviour also changes if the position of the tubing on the axles change. I would be tempted to use the clutch. You can buy a bag of 50 from Pitsco. Build a small test stand to break them in and have a dozen ready for use.
Somebody posted on another robotic forum a link to their webpage and a great description of a clutch based limited slip. Perhaps it was the Sharon Eagles? You folks got your ears on?
-Skye - Message by: stmichaels#1407 09/15/2005 13:50:10 GMT
thanks Skye, I have been in touch with Sharon Eagles and discussed their Eagle Drive (I believe that was the name). I was just trying to remem ber some of the discussions on the forum from last year concerning the different methods. My initial impulse is to have the team investigate the clutch gear, however, I didn't know if there was any difference in performance. One last question, so, the clutch gears have to be broken in? I just ordered 10 of them last night and I was thinking they would be ready to go.
thanks for the help,
Lloyd O'Hara, St. Michaels #1407 - Message by: fll-freak 09/15/2005 14:22:33 GMT
Way back when, my team started experiments with limited slip drive (LSD). They tried a bunch of stuff and settled on the tube method. If I remember right, the principle reason for selecting the tube rather than the clutch was one of space. They just could not get the clutch into the very compact design they had.
It has been my experience that a bit of breaking in would probably be worth while. Just a minute in each direction to smooth out the manufacturing marks. It might also be good to figure out how to grade the parts. The torque range on the clutch is fairly wide due to non precise manufacturing. A simple rig should find the parts that are most similar.
My FLL motto whould have to be:
"Spare no expense to minimize variables or to program to account for them."
-Skye
PS: My private motto is:
"Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe." - Message by: MA_HeadRef_2894 09/15/2005 15:12:01 GMT
I am not part of the team that invented the Sharon Eagle Overdrive, but it did come out of our organization (Sharon Youth Robotics Association), and I have looked at it a bunch. I think the neat trick is that the clutch is used just to bias a differential -- it doesn't need to be "matched" or tuned or anything else. The clutch just makes it "easier" for the wheels to be in synch than to not be; so you go straight when you want to. When you want to turn, the motor is used to overpower the clutch, and the wheels turn at different rates. Very neat.
I am told they do wear out, and must be replaced when they are no longer strong enough to limit the bias.
The particular team that developed the drive is no longer able to participate in FLL due to age. - Message by: fll-freak 09/15/2005 15:37:05 GMT
Jack,
I went back to the overdrive site to look at the pictures again. I did remember correctly (rare event).
The point I made about grading the clutches was not that you needed two similar clutches on a given robot but that when you replace the worn out clutch you might like one the same as the previous.
When the kids replace the tube in our LSD, there was always a period of time needed to adjust some magic numbers. The issue is that in turns with one wheel stopped and the other moving, the LSD would transfer enough torque to rotate the stationary wheel even with the motor braked. Sometimes as much as 1/4 revolution, sometimes nothing. Therefore they needed to make a slight correction to the number of clicks for turns.
Now with tubes, it was always an issue getting the amount of axle inside consistant. This will not be an issue with the clutch, but the clutch's break torque may be.
These are all very small points that for a team using an LSD their first year will be "in the noise". The radical improvement in navigation will trivialize these small problems. My team used and LSD for 3 years and these issues had to be dealt with but (unfortunately) never fully corrected.
-Skye - Message by: KaoticMentor 09/17/2005 16:41:10 GMT
I was actually one of them main LSD testers for my team (Tekno Devils) last year, and would just like to add my own two cents to this.
The clutch gear (or at least the 4 or so we had access to) has some very interesting properties that make it difficult to use as a part of an LSD. It takes a good deal of torque to get it to begin to slip (high static friction), but as soon as it begins to slip, it has a very much reduced friction (low rotating friction). So, as soon as the difference in power between your two motors is enough to cause the gear to slip, it is very hard to get it to stop. This left us in a bit of a "sticky" (no pun intended) situation, because as soon as it began to slip, the clutch gear was practically worthless to correct any large errors.
-Glenn - Message by: warningchokinghazard200 09/15/2005 13:51:06 GMT
You are probably talking about the Sharon "Eagle Overdrive"?
Here is the link http://eagleunlimited.home.comcast.net/project72.htm
Coach Dave April (not from Sharon Eagle Robotics, though appreciative of their sharing...) - Message by: stmichaels#1407 09/16/2005 18:35:47 GMT
Thaks to all for your help. I'll get the team looking at the clutch gear and see what they can come up with.
Lloyd O'Hara, stMicahels#1407 - Message by: SharonEagles110 09/17/2005 05:41:20 GMT
I coached the Sharon Eagle Robotics Unlimited team for their 3 years in the FLL. We have moved on this season to mentoring the FLL teams in the Sharon Youth Robotics Association and participating in the FIRST Vex Challenge (FVC 13). We posted all the details of our response to last years FLL challenge at our FLL website last year - eagleunlimited.syraweb,org. We left it posted because we hope that it can be a resource for new FLL teams.
The team's concept of the "Eagle Overdrive" is a very simple one - build a differential drive robot, and link the two sides together with two gears and an axle, with ONE of the gears being a clutch gear. You can do this with ANY differential drive design. My team worked long and hard to fit the Eagle Overdrive into the same footprint of their previous year's competition "CoreBot" and succeeded, but this is a specific implementation of a general principle.
The link between the motors on each side will force the motors to turn at the same speed, resulting in mostly straight travel (wheels can still slip, etc.). When the motors are turned opposite to each other, or one motor is braked, the clutch gear will de-couple them, and the turn will occur. Of course, a rotation sensor is critical for precision in distance and turning, and it should be geared to be turned close to normal motor speed for best precision. Pictures and ML-CAD files are on the website.
Clutch gears are a wear item, and we wore one out during the design & testing process. Indications that it is worn would be that either it no longer goes straight, or difficulty in turning (for us, no longer staight, also a clicking noise). The team always kept a couple of spares handy, but never needed them throughout practice and competition.
One downside is that any turns that leave one side freely rotating (sometimes done while line following, for example) may not develop enough torque to actually engage the clutch gear, and thus may not turn at all, or turn inconsistently. Other than that, with normal differential turns, and the extreme difference between the torque differentials going straight or turning, we never found the actual torque ratings of the clutch gear to be critical.
Of course, this design only addresses veering caused by motor differential. You still are subject to wheel slippage (keep your wheels clean!), caster wheel turning bias, uneven or dirty mats, etc.
We wish you all the best of luck this season, and if the Eagle Overdrive can help your design, feel free to use it. - Message by: stmichaels#1407 09/22/2005 02:09:08 GMT
We have been experimenting with the Sharon Eagle Overdrive and ran into some issues, probably due to our lack of understanding. The team decided that they love the drive train but wanted it to be geared up instead of down. To that end they connected 40-tooth gears to the motors and 24-tooth gears to the differential. While the cot did increase in speed, now it will no longer turn. When we run the motors in opposite directions to make the cot turn, the drive train locks up. I would assume, not being that knowledgeable myself, that there is not enough torque on the clutch gear and it is not slipping, which means the two sides are still locked, thus causing the binding. Does this sound reasonable or should the simple act of driving the motors in different directions cause enough torque to recouple the wheels? Any insights would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Lloyd O'Hara St Michael#1407 - Message by: MA_HeadRef_2894 09/22/2005 03:24:32 GMT
You can't do this; the torque limit of the clutch needs to be in a position on the drive train where it can be used. Don't underestimate how long it took to come up with this!
Generally speaking, putting a 40t on the motor is a bad idea. You will drain your batteries in a flash, and have all sorts of stalling problems, like the one you created with the Overdrive. - Message by: fll-freak 09/22/2005 03:30:15 GMT
The clutch was placed in a position where the torque provided by the motor was the highest. This was done so that the motor torque at the clutch would be more than the break torque of the clutch. In your configuration, the torque at the clutch is less than the break torque of the clutch. As you gear up for speed, you gear down in the same ratio for torque. Make it twice as fast, make it twice as weak. "Them be physics."
-Skye - Message by: stmichaels#1407 09/22/2005 04:02:47 GMT
Thanks for the help. We're still trying to learn this stuff. Last year we didn't do any gearing. I guess the bottom line is that we will need to gear down instead of up in order to get enough torque on the clutch.
Thanks,
Lloyd O'Hara StMichaels#1407 - Message by: stmichaels#1407 09/22/2005 04:06:27 GMT
Let me ask this then, does developing the LSD with tubing instead of the clutch gear allow you to gear up a little more for speed? I'm trying to figure out the trade-offs between the two systems. 2.5 ain't much time as they say.
Thaks,
Lloyd O'Hara St. Michaels#1407 - Message by: fll-freak 09/22/2005 04:23:19 GMT
Tubing or a clutch will not in itself change anything. What might change is the break torque of the two systems. If you look at a white clutch it has some numbers printed on it. This is the range of torques in Newton-Meters where the clutch will 'break' or start to slip. A tubing system will have a different break torque and can be changed by how much axle you place inside the tube. The more axle, the more friction, the larger the break torque. Therefore at one level the tubing system is "better" in that it can be adjusted. The downfall of tubing is that you can adjust it and it changes on who put the bot together last!
What you have discovered is the great engineering trade-off of all time. Speed versus torque versus accuracy. With the same power source you can't go faster without loosing power and accuracy. So for FLL, you can go fast and never do the same thing twice, or go slow and do it (more) accurately each time. A resonable compromise is to use the 24 tooth gear on the motor and the 40 tooth gear on the large ballon wheels (not the huge bicycle wheels). Arrange the system to have the rotation sensor turn at the same speed as the motor. This gives resonable speed and accuracy. Now you just need to figure out where to put an LSD!
As in all FLL related issues, your mileage WILL vary.
-Skye - Message by: stmichaels#1407 09/23/2005 00:55:07 GMT
Thought I should share what John Pilvines, the coach of the Sharon Eagle Robotics United Team, had to say. Its pretty much what has already been said but I wanted to share it anyway. Thanks for all of ya'lls help.
"Yes, I suspect that you simply have too little torque difference to trigger the clutch (you should test it, of course, to make sure that it has not failed). Our design geared for a 1-5 increase in torque (with a corresponding decrease in speed, offset by the use of large wheels, not significant for the Eagle Overdrive linkage). You have almost a 2-1 reduction in torque, which is quite a swing (almost 10-1). Of course, you are probably using small wheels, but can you control that extra speed and still have precision movements? Also, do you have enough torque to climb the ramp onto the ship? Also, remember that the rotation sensor seems to work best around motor speed, so gearing it back down might be needed." - Message by: RoboVikings 11/24/2005 23:26:42 GMT
Is it permissable to cut tubing to length for use in a limited slip differential? - Message by: stmichaels#1407 11/25/2005 00:15:24 GMT
From the Q&A:
QA28 Cutting Long Stuff To Length
11-10-2005
Q: Is it okay again this year to cut LEGO string to the length we need?
A: Yes. LEGO regular string, elastic rope, and flex tubing in are expected to be cut to length, but no other surgery is allowed.
Lloyd O'Hara St. Michaels #1407 - Message by: RoboVikings 11/25/2005 20:50:36 GMT
Is it permissable to cut tubing to length for use in a limited slip differential? - Message by: stmichaels#1407 11/26/2005 01:13:33 GMT
I would take the Q&A at its word. Just my opinion. If you want further clarification, you'll have to ask somebody official.
Lloyd O'Hara
St Michael's Team #1407 - Message by: RoboVikings 11/27/2005 08:17:37 GMT
Thanks for the answers!
My son checked his collection and found some stock tubing the right length (2 studs). Apparently it comes in a wide variety of lengths.
We keep having to switch out motors to try to keep two of them "matched" while testing programs repeatedly. Is this common or do we need our motors replaced? We only have the three motors, do you recommend we have more?
This is our first year and we are clueless, any help is greatly appreciated!!
thanks,
GA techno builders
- Message by: fll-freak 10/18/2005 17:19:45 GMT
GA Techno Builders,
Welcome to the crazy and frustrating world of FLL. What you are experiencing is not unusual. Most teams will be having the same problem.
Some things to think about...
What is changing that would cause the motors to behave differently at different times?
Perhaps the robot is changing weight? Adding that ten foot tall "Flaming Tower of Doom (tm)" to the robot adds lots of weight. Motors behave differently under changing loads.
Are the batteries getting weaker? Motors behave differently under changing voltage.
Perhaps friction is changing? How about speed? How about direction? All these can change the behaviour of a motor differently than its companion.
Has the robot taken one too many hits on the noogin? Motors will wear out. Happens faster if the kids push the bot around like a matchbox car.
It is always nice to have more motors to pick from. Just make sure you get an insurance rider after you buy your 500th motor!
You should read "Building LEGO Robots for FIRST LEGO League". Find a reference to it here:
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?13@@.ee98a8f
-Skye - Message by: YellowSubs146 10/28/2005 23:06:17 GMT
hey technobuilders,
I'm from the Netherlands, in FLL also known as the benelux.
My english isn't very good but o wel :P.
the problem that you have, is a problem that is gues all the teams will have, we still have this problem and are thinking about a sollution, we don't know how to solve it.
But is was just letting you know that you are not the only one that is clueless :).
Bye
Robert from the Yellowsubs, greetigs from the Netherlands (Benelux).
"we all live in a yellowsubmarine". - Message by: logicalnautical734 10/31/2005 16:57:15 GMT
I found a study on the internet that said that there could be an 11 percent difference in the number of rotations a motor does in a given amount of time.
If you have a rotation sensor, you might set up a program to run each motor for a set period of time and measure how many rotation the motor makes. You then might be able to more closely match the motors.
The other solution might be to build a drive train that uses only one motor to power each wheel or both motors to power both wheels at the same time. - Message by: crazycreators304 11/02/2005 05:41:25 GMT
I, think I may be considered a freak as I have 3 lego mindstorms kits and have purchased extra motors. I have 11 motors. The first thing we did this year was run each motor for 30 seconds with an angle sensor attached and recorded the counts for each run. We used a power supply connected to the RCX 1.0 so battery run-down would not skew the results. We ran each motor three time. When done we found two pairs of motors that were very close to the same speed. We marked these motors with stickers and they are the ones we are using in our robot. One set drives the robot and one set is a spare. The difference between the slowest motor and fastest motor was considerable. I am quite pleased to find that our robot travels in nearly a perfect strait line. - Message by: technobuilders1750 10/31/2005 18:54:29 GMT
Thanks for your help Skye, "yellow subs", and "logical nautical!"
We are trying out your suggestions. : )
Techno Builders - Message by: tigers2398 11/02/2005 06:46:43 GMT
I need some help (or at least trying to figure out what is happening). The kids have a cot with two motors. They can run a program twice and getting substantially different results. This is with new and old batteries. I have a suspicion that it maybe the motors or the RCX. Any ideas? - Message by: fll-freak 11/02/2005 13:49:41 GMT
"substantially"
Several millimeters, several centimeters, several meteres, or a few dozen light years?
Over what type of course? A dozen turns with long runs, or just a short out and back?
-Skye - Message by: tigers2398 11/03/2005 06:55:11 GMT
No, we are talking about a few dozen light years. The course is fairly simple (straight line and turn). The design is fairly simple. I have another RCX unit that I am tempted to try out and see if its inherit to the unit or not. If you have any suggestion, let me know. - Message by: fll-freak 11/03/2005 13:47:45 GMT
Ok, lets try again. What is the variation as a percentage of the course?
Without resorting to things like limited slip differentials, you should expect several inches of variation just driving the 8 feet down the table. Make one turn and you can easley double the error. Make a 180 turn and drive back to base and your can be at least a foot off.
Have this be a fast robot (motors direct to the big bicycle wheels) and you could end up any place in Kansas.
-Skye - Message by: fll-freak 12/07/2005 17:27:51 GMT
I just did a bit of analysis and found the following:
Over a 7 foot straight run with a robot whose drive wheel base is 12 studs wide and motors that are off in speed by just 1/2 percent, you can expect a 6 degree heading change and to be off by nine inches.
If you narrow the wheel base to to 8 studs your heading error increases to 9 degrees and the position error to 13 inches!
Doubling the accuracy of the motor from 1/2 to 1/4 percent halves both the heading and position errors.
Two things to learn from this:
1) Narrow robots are much more prone to veering
2) It only takes tiny speed changes in a motor to cause grief.
-Skye - Message by: CGMSC2605 11/03/2005 18:36:47 GMT
I agree with Skye, a generic skid-steer Lego robot will probably drift at least 6 inches just trying to drive straight for the 8 foot length of the table. That is, off by 6" to the left one time, next time off by 6" to the right. (Actually, being off by only 6" is pretty good for a simple 'bot!)
How do you measure your turns? If you do it by time, for example turn left for 1 second, then the turn will change as the batteries run down.
Solutions?
Don't do any "dead reckoning", that is driving without some type of guidance from the table such as following a wall or line. Last year, nearly every mission could be guided by the table walls or lines on the mats. This year, the fiendish FLL has made several challenges that may have to use dead reckoning.
If you must dead reckon, and you miss your target by +/- 6 inches, then perhaps you need to make the front of your robot 12 inches wide?
Add a rotation sensor to your 'bot and use it to "measure" your turns.
Check for wheel slippage, this will mess up your ability to drive straight and turn consistently! Dusty wheels and/or mat can really be a problem. (If the mat stays out all the time it should be dusted before each practice.)
Hope I've provided something of use and Good Luck. - Message by: stannes3397 11/12/2005 06:38:38 GMT
its very hard to find a motor with the power of both is equal. so usually it will swereve slightly. i sugest just to have a few programs that do one to two jobs per run then go back to base, relocate it then set it off!
Our team is trying to keep a small footprint on our design. We built a simple, strong design that is fairly narrow and short with 2 wheels on each side. The plan was to power one wheel on each side and gear to the other wheel and use spinning commands to steer or reposition the direction.
We found that the robot bounces alot and sometimes does not spin - assume that the design is too narrow, but seems like I have seen others pull this off. Any suggestions on how to make this work?
Also, we have been experimenting with one drive wheel on each side and sliding wheels on the front. It's very manuverable, but I can't say I've seen others do this. Does anyone have experience with this approach?
- Message by: fll-freak 11/03/2005 17:20:34 GMT
Take the rubber tires of the non powered wheels!
-Skye - Message by: De-Oilers0509 11/03/2005 17:32:18 GMT
We tried that. Is there a magic L:W ratio for wheelbase in order to support spinning? - Message by: CGMSC2605 11/03/2005 18:11:09 GMT
If I understand you correctly, all four wheels are powered? You usually do not want to power both wheels on the same side of a robot. When it turns one wheel will have to slip a lot in both the normal rotational direction of the wheel and perpendicular to its normal direction.
Don't power all four wheels. Skye's suggestion will help once you remove power from two of the wheels. Another solution is to replace two of the wheels with a skid or "buttons".
The Roverbot (I think that is the one) in the Constructopedia is a particulary bad example of a robot, very unusual for a design created by Lego! It has two wheels on each side, all wheels are powered (bad) and, the worst part, the front and rear wheels are different sizes but geared to rotate at the same speed! Even when going straight the wheels are forced to slip. I would improve that robot by removing the gearing between the front and rear wheels and, as Skye suggested, removing the rubber from the unpowered wheels. I would also try larger hubs on the unpowered wheels. Alternatively, I would complete remove the extra tires and replace with one or more skids. - Message by: SMART 11/03/2005 18:52:30 GMT
CGMSC2605,
Can't say I totally agree with you. Although there are certainly issues with a four wheel drive approach, I have seen it used effectively.
One of the teams at the World Festival made it to the top 8 with just such a design. The base robot definitely had the look of the roverbot from the constructopedia. And it definitely looked awkward when turning. But it was also very consistent about scoring!
The important thing is that there are many right answers to designing a successful robot. Tread, four driven wheels, and two driven wheels have all been successful for different reasons.
- Peter - Message by: De-Oilers0509 11/03/2005 18:47:12 GMT
We tried that. Is there a magic L:W ratio for wheelbase in order to support spinning? - Message by: SMART 11/03/2005 18:56:34 GMT
Do you mean spinning of the bot using a four powered wheel drive?
Weight, Center of Gravity, gear ratio, and type of tires would all be factors so there is not a simple formula for this.
If you choose to go this route experiment with different options. And don't forget to test with added weight. Once you add those heavy attachments on the whole picture could change and you can easily end up with a bot that won't turn at all due to insufficient torque to overcome the friction.
- Peter - Message by: De-Oilers0509 11/03/2005 18:55:34 GMT
Thanks. We currently have a skid in the front. We're just using a long, thin piece accross the front to keep a large friction surface for more control as opposed to small skid pieces that could experience more variation. We're thinking that the average friction will be more consistent this way.
I read some ideas about measuring motor output to try to balace motors best you can.
Have you seen others do the skid approach? Do they have reasonable success? Are their pitfalls associated with it? - Message by: CGMSC2605 11/03/2005 19:09:53 GMT
Did the original post get edited? I don't recall the 3rd paragraph!
Peter: You are right of course, I've seen people get "roverbot" like 'bots to work very well. Having said that, four powered wheels is still a bad idea without rather complex differentials. The original post concerned a problem with a four wheel-powered 'bot and I posted suggestions. Could you get a car to work with 4 wheel drive and no differentials? Yes you could. Would it work well? It might. Would it trash the tires? Yes.
Back to De-Oilers0509 questions, there is no magic L:W ratio for spinning. Shorter lengths will spin better (shorter lever arm to the friction point). The width shouldn't make any difference except wider will spin slower. Many 'bots at the competition will have only two wheels, a fair number will have four but two wheels won't have rubber, a lot of 'bots will have 4 wheels with rubber, one or two 'bots will have more than 4 wheels, and a couple will use treads. I have seen all the various designs both perform great and fail misserably. - Message by: De-Oilers0509 11/03/2005 19:23:41 GMT
Thanks. We currently have a skid in the front. We're just using a long, thin piece accross the front to keep a large friction surface for more control as opposed to small skid pieces that could experience more variation. We're thinking that the average friction will be more consistent this way.
I read some ideas about measuring motor output to try to balace motors best you can.
Have you seen others do the skid approach? Do they have reasonable success? Are their pitfalls associated with it? - Message by: CGMSC2605 11/03/2005 19:42:21 GMT
We have used skids three out of four (4 out of 5?) years. It works fine and is simple to do. You want at least the front edge of the skid to curve or slant so it doesn't hang up on climbing challenges (like getting onto the boat this year). We have always done our skids likes this (gives a front kind of like a snow ski).
http://home.earthlink.net/~jimsluka/_images/skid_rcx.gif
(sorry couldn't resist trying to post a picture from http://leocad.org/ LeoCAD!)
Concerning matching motors, the first thing to do is make sure the two motors have the same part number (look on the bottom). There have been two versions of the 9V geared motors and they have significant differences, for one thing the older motor is 50% heavier than the new one. See here and here for more info on the two motors.
People have posted (though I can't find the links at the moment) on matching motors by comparing their speeds. Hook the motor up to a rotation sensor, program the RCX to turn the motor on for say 10 seconds, then stop the motor and display the rotation sensor reading. Pick two motors that have the closest readings.
A better way to match the motors would probably be to do the test under load, I don't recall every seeing a technique to do this. Perhaps use a string+winch driven by the motor lifting a bucket of weights? Add weight to the bucket until the motor stalls. Match motors that have the same maximum lift capacity.
We have a robot with two wheels and a skid on the front. Were testing the forward motion and it currently varies by two inches (left to right) out of a 53 inch travel. The 53 inch travel is consistent due to a rotation sensor. Two inch variation from left to right doesn't seem bad, but I think most of that comes from a slight kick to the right that it takes when it starts.
We dropped the power to 4, but it still seems to do it and we had to go.
Do others experience this kick? Is it an inconsistency with the motors or is it from a normal force back from my college mechanics class? Does the software provide functional loading so that we can ramp up power in a linear function?
- Message by: fll-freak 11/08/2005 18:33:57 GMT
We had a similar problem in the past. We had to write our own software (in RoboLab) to create slow starts to prevent or at least minimize this issue. We started at power level 1 for 2/10 of a second than went to power level 2 for a while, and worked out way up to full speed.
Just as a quick question... You are not doing anything between turning the first and the second motor on are you? Turning on A then doing a "beep" then turning on C would be a BAD THING (tm).
-Skye - Message by: crazycreators304 11/08/2005 19:27:39 GMT
Using Robolab - Could turning on motor A then motor C be an issue because they are in series (the first instruction exicutes then the next). Could you turn on the generic motor with A and C modifiers to turn them both on at the same time. - Message by: fll-freak 11/08/2005 19:38:50 GMT
It is possible that this is an issue. Nothing in the computer world ever happens at the exact same time. Turning them on one right after another should insure near "exact" (to withing a few thousands of a second).
I do not this that the generic motor turn on with multiple modifiers would help significantly, but I would love somebody to run that experiment and report back the results.
For the team having "Jerk to the right" problems, perhaps a simple test would be to swap turning A on before C to the other way and see if the jerk is now to the left. (And I am nnot talking about the coach).
-Skye - Message by: We Dream of Jellyfish 11/14/2005 04:22:28 GMT
At the Robolab conference this past summer, Eric Wang indicated that there is often a noticeable difference between using "motor a" - "motor c" vs. "generic motor - modifiers a and c." So far in our tests, the difference is most apparent when the robot is fast and using slick wheels, less obvious with treads and thick tires.
Marie - Message by: fll-freak 11/14/2005 04:57:23 GMT
Facinating. I am of to my secret underground lab...
-Skye - Message by: CGMSC2605 11/08/2005 20:35:21 GMT
How complex is the gear train? If you have many gears between the motor and drive axle gear then gear slop (gear lash) can cause the 'bot to turn one direction or the other on startup.
You can measure the slop in your gear train by picking up the robot and turning one wheel forward and back. Note how far you can turn the wheel before the motor gear starts to turn.
Imagine a robot ready to start. The left wheel is "slop-free", that is the gears are all tightly meshed and the instant the motor gear moves the wheel must also move. But, the other motor has "maximum slop", that is, it has been rotated such that the motor must turn significantly before all the gears fully contact and the wheel starts to move. With a complex drive chain (say 3 or more gears) and a big wheel, this difference could be a half an inch or even more. That error shows up as a turn as the 'bot starts to move. Of course, the next time the 'bot is started the slop is reversed, or equal between the two wheels or ...
If it is a gear slop problem then you can try to set the "slop" to be repeatable.
I've always tried to get the kids to position the robot exactly the same way for each start. That includes any final turning required for alignment. Think about how the robot is aligned, do you set it down then turn it "left or right" to point or align it with something? Do you sometime move the 'bot "forward or backwards"? That "left or right" and "forward or backwards" could be a problem. Try to get your kids to always set it down exactly the same way every time. For example, a little behind and pointing to the left of the starting position, then turn right to align and roll forward to start point.
This way, the gear slop is the same from start to start. This won't make a 'bot track straight but it will help to get it to track more consistently.
If you think you need "soft starts" and are using RIS, then this would be a great place for a "my block";
-------------------------
set direction A^C^
set power A,C=3
on AC
wait 0.1
set power A,C=4
wait 0.1
set power A,C=5
wait 0.1
set power A,C=6
wait 0.1
set power A,C=7
wait 0.1
set power A,C=8
-------------------------- - Message by: De-Oilers1234 11/08/2005 21:16:43 GMT
Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate having access to this forum.
We are using the set power block and then power on to the motors. I would assume there is not a more precise way to turn each of the motors on simultaneously since motors a/b/c are listed together in the configuration of the block.
We will try simply switching the connections to see if the jerking goes the other direction.
Also appreciate the advice on ramping up the power. Looking at the software, it looks like you could build a loop using the add function to ramp power up. - Message by: SMART 11/09/2005 04:16:03 GMT
Be careful though. I've noticed that if there is any veer due to motor or (especially) friction differences these are sometime accentuated at lower power levels.
Nothing is ever easy.
- Peter - Message by: LaSalle90 12/02/2005 21:25:27 GMT
One solution we found for initial veering was to add a wait at the beggining of the program to allow fingers to get out of the way before the robot starts. We found many times the robot would start and the finger would cause the robot to veer off course.
Dave - Message by: 2005 Leagues Under the Sea 12/05/2005 03:44:15 GMT
We had that problem too. We found that if you have a mock angle sensor it would help with balancing weight and from having the robot go crooked.
-Kelsea
I was talking to the And the Cat coach at the UNH tournament Saturday. He is unable to access the forum; so, I'm sharing this on his behalf to help other teams. His team had a problem getting their robot to go straight. After exhausting everything they knew, he took out a volt meter and measured the outputs from all 3 motor ports on the RCX. He found a significant difference (can't remember the exact numbers). If all else fails, you might want to check your RCX.
Bob
- Message by: CGMSC2605 11/14/2005 20:51:16 GMT
Never thought of that! Think I'll take a volt meter to the next team meeting.
One way to tell if it is the RCX causing the problem would be to switch the leads to the motors. If it is an RCX problem the robot will curve less, or in the opposite direction, when the leads are switched. - Message by: 11/22/2005 17:08:21 GMT
Deleted - Message by: monsoon156 11/22/2005 17:11:38 GMT
WE have had problems with our RCX too. It will not go in a straight line. we have had a look at RCX Motor Port output voltage differences but no one has any solutions as to how to fix the problem. can you help!
MONSOON - Message by: 11/23/2005 00:05:25 GMT
Deleted
We are using different modules mounted on one vehicle for different missions. Can we have a different motor on each module so that as we switch modules we still have only three motors? We have the same question for sensors.
- Message by: fll-freak 11/21/2005 22:32:52 GMT
The answer is a big NO!
The full answer can be found in the UFAQ at www.fll-freak.com/faq
-Skye - Message by: knightriders177 11/21/2005 23:27:12 GMT
We didn't think this was against the rules. We did this last year and no one said anything about it.
Knight Riders - Message by: fll-freak 11/21/2005 23:40:18 GMT
FLL is a volunteer organization. Each tournament is run by volunteers that get trained at various levels. It is also possible that the ref did not see the swap of attachement and motor.
Here in New Hampshire, the robot is inspected prior to each match to look for this exact problem.
One solution is to have a team member move the motor from one attachement to another while the robot is doing something else. This approach was taken by the CitySights World Champion team. Another approach is to build a robot in such a way as to leave the third motor on the robot and have the attachements plug into the motor like a PTO on a tractor. The final approach is to design your attachements in such a way as to not need a third motor at all!
-Skye - Message by: oaklandtechrunners444 11/22/2005 03:38:02 GMT
It is very hard for the ref at the table to see whether an attachment being added to the robot has a motor embedded in it or not. Without a formal inspection process, it probably won't be caught. And even then, if the team was intent on using an illegal number of motors, nothing would stop them from going to inspection without the attachment with the extra motor.
Gracious Professionalism means more than just acting nice to people. It also means abiding by the rules. Teams essentially are honor-bound to compete fairly. That not only means proper equipment, but also that the coach hasn't built the robot for them. Do teams get away with things? Undoubtably. But what kind of hollow victory would that be?
- Gary
What is motor matching? How to we do motor matching?
- Message by: fll-freak 12/07/2005 01:41:55 GMT
A resonable description can be found in the UFAQ at www.fll-freak.com/faq
-Skye
Folder: RCX 01/07/2006 21:11:23 GMT
Discussion: RCX 1.0 power supply By: crazycreators304 11/12/2005 20:29:58 GMT
What are the power supply requirements for the RCX 1.0 power supply connection.
I have a 9VDC 200mA Plug in Class II transformer (wall wart power supply). Will it work?
- Message by: fll-freak 09/09/2005 12:57:05 GMT
A quick Google search using "rcx external power" found that the RCX would like a 9 to 12V AC or DC input at about 500ma. Your 200ma supply is probably too little as each motor can draw that much when stalled.
The jack to the RCX can accept either DC or AC power as it is rectified, filtered, and then regulated. Polarity of the connector is also not important. Running at 9V will not give much margin to the rectifier. Running at greater than 12V will force the rectifier to generate lots of heat. It was further suggested to remove the batteries is you use the external jack as they are not electricaly disconnected.
By the time you add the external wire and remove the batteries to be safe, you will have changed the dynamics of the robot in a major way. When you go back to batteries, you will have TOTALY different behaviour. Something to think about.
-Skye - Message by: Team O.R.B. 09/19/2005 00:44:19 GMT
Hi Skye and everyone else!
Can you explain more about why the behaviour of the robot would change? For our team, the point of using an external AC Adapter while changing batteries is to avoid losing the firmware. But, if the behaviour of the robot changes, that doesn't sound like using an external power source during the battery changout is a good idea. Thanks.
Shay
Coach of Team O.R.B. - Message by: fll-freak 09/19/2005 01:14:35 GMT
1) You can change batteries without losing firmware by following the procedure outlined in the UFAQ.
2) Everything changes the behaviour of a robot. Reducing the weight of a bot by not inserting batteries will change how it turns, how fast it goes, how it follows lines, ...
If you are only using the ac jack to maintain power during batteries changes you should be just fine.
-Skye - Message by: KaoticMentor 09/19/2005 03:41:10 GMT
Also, if you used the AC jack while doing table missions, not only will the weight be different enough to cause problems, but you have a very many other issues.
1) You don't get to see how your robot reacts under loss of battery power (something that is very important to learn to cope with when it comes to be tournament time).
2) The cord could pose a problem by getting in the way or putting a force on the robot that wouldn't otherwise be there.
On further thought however, having access to a jack would make some things, like testing of stationary and non-power level dependant things, very much easier and cost-effective. One example would would be light sensor monitoring over a large period of time if you wanted to run a test with, let's say, ambient light.
While changing batteries has been on my team somewhat of an art form, it can be very easy. Alas, Skye forgot to provide you with a link to the UFAQ, but it can be found here. There is a wonderful section on batteries; what kinds, how many, and how to change them.
Hope this helps,
-Glenn - Message by: 10/20/2005 06:19:21 GMT
Deleted - Message by: technobuilders1750 11/12/2005 19:27:07 GMT
I was searching for information regarding the RCX power requirements and the use of the AC adapter, and was confused by the following.
Skye stated in the above response "It was further suggested to remove the batteries [if] you use the external jack as they are not electricaly disconnected."
But I found in the Lego Mindstorms for Schools RoboLab user guide on page 160 it states the following "When [the AC adapter is] plugged in, the RCX will bypass the batteries to access AC power, conserving the batteries."
I would like to be certain that I can leave the batteries in the RCX when using the adapter and not damage anything. Also, I want to be sure that the polarity does not matter nor does type of power (AC or DC). Based on my knowledge of electronics, polarity is usually very important.
Rich
Mentor for the Techno Builders - Message by: fll-freak 11/12/2005 20:29:58 GMT
It is not critical to unload the batteries. It is though a good safety tip from a "belt and suspenders" type guy.
Polarity is normaly critical as is AC vs DC. But the minds at LEGO but a rectifier between the electronics and the power jack. This means you can put any 9-12V power supply rated at at least 500ma and not render your RCX into a pile of molten silicon.
-Skye
When the school's FL kit arrived, I used a Sharpie to mark the school initials on the rear, yellow band going around the RCX so I wouldn't confuse it with our own RCX.
Now I read in the rules "marker can be used for owner identification in hidden areas only."
How do I remove the permanent marker already on the RCX?
What is considered "hidden"?
Bob
- Message by: fll-freak 09/16/2005 16:42:52 GMT
I would not worry to much about it. The prohibition was a request from LEGO to have the robots still look LEGO-ish and not overly modified with stickers and what not. As long as the marking is fairly un-obtrusize and has now other function (like a target for a light sensor) you should not get any complaints.
It is possible a drop of Goo-Gone might take off the markings. I would test on a simple brick you could toss if he goo-gone attacks the plastic. For an RCX, the inside of the battery case is very hidden!
I have placed initials on motors, sensors, and RCXs in smallish letters and have never been called to the floor.
-Skye - Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #15 09/16/2005 19:36:07 GMT
I have found that nail polish remover (acetone) does a great job of taking sharpie off of all non-porous surfaces on which I have tried it. As Skye mentions, you might want to first test on a regular LEGO brick to make sure that the acetone doesn't have any adverse impact upon the plastic used in LEGO.
Another option for the RCX if you have multiple RCXs from multiple sources is to either label them inside, or to write down the serial numbers. - Message by: MA_HeadRef_2894 09/16/2005 20:09:29 GMT
Acetone will almost certainly eat LEGO. Don't worry about the marking. - Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #15 09/16/2005 21:10:20 GMT
Hmm. Now I've piqued my own curiousity. I'll have to try some acetone-based nail polish remover on Lego tonight to see what happens... - Message by: PollutionNukers64 09/19/2005 14:04:17 GMT
I use rubbing alcohol to remove sharpie marks from LEGO. I have had no problems with damage to parts. - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 09/22/2005 02:35:20 GMT
Nice to see you back Dark Matter :)
Rubbing alcohol is the best way to go, I even use it on my DVD-RW's to rewrite the names on them. Carla :)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/19/2005 16:20:12 GMT
You could always build other Lego to cover it, then it would be hidden. Or maybe by the time the robot is ready, you won't see the rcx at all anyway. I wouldn't worry about it.
-Laura - Message by: cch2618 01/07/2006 21:11:23 GMT
"Magic Eraser", a sponge like product in the cleaning aisle will remove permanent marker.
What is the diffeerence between an RCX 1.0 and RCX 2.0?
I have beemn using a 2.0 and was given a couple 1.0's so I could make multiple robots. Is there a sigificant difference? And, what should I watch for?
- Message by: fll-freak 09/18/2005 15:16:09 GMT
I beleive this is answered in the UFAQ. The only significant difference is the lack of the exteranal power jack in the 2.0 version. 2.0 was LEGO's second run and had numerous manufacturability improvements and no functional changes (or than the power jack).
-Skye - Message by: Future Robotics 10/12/2005 16:48:59 GMT
If you purchase a Mindstorm Invention Kit, you get an RCX 2.0. If you purchase an FLL Robotic Kit you get RCX 1.0. Since the only comments about the RCX in the rules is that you are only allowed 1, I assume either vintage will be allowed.
Bob - Message by: SMART 10/12/2005 18:12:06 GMT
Actually any of the three. If you buy an old Mindstorms kit off of E-Bay you might get a 1.5!
- Peter - Message by: teamstealth871 11/20/2005 20:57:16 GMT
hi,
I coach a team that has one RCX 1.0 (purchased by the school) and two RCX 2.0 (loaned by team member families). We are finding glitchy problems using RIS 2.0 software with the RCX 1.0. I read an article on the web (which admittedly was a little over my head) that said that the RCX 1.0 is not compatible with that software and you have to use Robolab? Is there any credence to this? The Team Members are ready to chuck the 1.0 at the wall and are squabbling over the 2.0's. Help.
Cathy - Message by: fll-freak 11/21/2005 01:16:46 GMT
The firmware for a 2.0 and 1.0 RCX are different. If you are using RIS 2.0 on an RCX loaded with 1.0 you can have problems. Simple solution is to delete the firmware (remove the batteries for two minutes) and load it from the computer running 2.0. Luckly a 1.0 program will run on 2.0 firmware.
-Skye - Message by: teamstealth871 11/21/2005 04:07:59 GMT
We have never run RIS 1.0 if that is what you are referring to as a "1.0 program will run on 2.0 firmware". We have downloaded firmware from RIS 2.0 into an RCX 1.0. We have on many occasions removed the batteries and had to download the firmware again. I find glitchy problems. I have tested the light sensor and touch sensor with the RCX 2.0 bricks and can't duplicate the problems. A program created with Ris 2.0 run on the rcx 1.0 will sometimes just not work, or stop in the middle of it, but if you load it into the rcx 2.0 there is no problem. I was really surprised to find that the FLL Robot Kit and the Lego Mindstorms for Schools were being shipped out with RCX 1.0. I know that they are also shipped with Robolab 2.5.4 software. So I thought that maybe the two -- RIS 2.0 and the RCX 1.0 were incompatible. Usually when a company upgrades a product -- there is something wrong with it. I find that "beginners" are able to use the RIS 2.0 more readily. Any other insights you might have are welcome. Cathy - Message by: fll-freak 11/21/2005 05:57:55 GMT
A 1.0, and 2.0 RCX are identical except for a few minor changes. On the outside, the only change you will notice, will be the lack of a power jack on the 2.0 and some cosmetic changes. On the inside LEGO made manufacturability changes only. They changed things to make it cheaper and easier to produce not to 'fix' anything broken or wrong.
Therefore the two RCX types are 'identical'. You can run either firmware levels on either RCX.
It is possible that your 2.0 unit is simply not functioning properly. LEGO is VERY helpful in isolating problems and sending out replacement units. If your program runs fine on one unit but not on another and thye have the EXACT same program, firmware, and sensors, then I would suspect the RCX is simply sick.
-Skye - Message by: teamstealth871 12/02/2005 16:24:41 GMT
Hi Skye,
Thanks for the info. I did call Lego Technical help and the technician said the 1.0 behavior was "suspect". So I will deal with customer service now.
Cathy - Message by: hawks1714 01/06/2006 03:56:25 GMT
Well technically, the RCX 1.0 and 2.0 are just as compatable, our team this year and in the past years have been using the RCX 1.0 without problems. All I could see between the 1.0 and the 2.0 that I got in my RIS2 for Christmas a few years ago was the text on it looked a bit bolder. And also, the 1.0 originally came with RIS 1.0, same case for RCX 2.0.
Also, I do use RIS software, so it is compatable! It's the FIRMWARE that give it the new features in most cases.
Problems relating to the RCX and its firmware.
- Message by: MadRoboteers-427 09/25/2005 20:50:23 GMT
Our RCX keeps unexpectedly losing the firmware (and all our stored programs)! Even the slightest bump (like tapping the case with one finger!) causes the RCX to lose power and all the firmware. We can not add or remove a connector without losing everything, so there's no way we can make even simple modifications to the robot without being forced to download the firmware again.
It's a new RCX and I have checked that the batteries are new, the battery connectors are tight, etc. and don't know what else to try. We are spending nearly all our time downloading firmware and carrying the robot around like it's made of delicate glass. HELP!? - Message by: fll-freak 09/25/2005 21:02:14 GMT
Sounds like you have one of two problems.
1) Inside the battery compartment are the little spring metal fingers that press against the batteries. Sometimes due to a slightly smaller battery (are you using recharables?) the fingers are not tight. From your post this does not sound like you problem. If it was, a SLIGHT bending of the tabs inwards is all you need to fix the problem. For whatever reason, some rechargables tend to be a few dozen thousands shorter than normal batteries causing more problems.
2) Inside the RCX itself the metal battery connectors attach to the circuit board. For manufacturing simplicity, the connection is not soldered but rather a spring connector. Bumps and the like can cause that connection to break on a non perfectly assembled RCX. If you are using a fair amount of current at the time, the RCX cannot maintain juice to the memory and "poof" you loose the firmware. Your best solution is to call LEGO and get a replacement. They are very good about replacements. You give them the serial number on your RCX, they ship you a new one, and you must send back your old one in a week or so, or you get charged for a new one.
I DO NOT recommend opening an RCX. They are designed for machine assembly and are very difficult to open and close back up again. Those little spring things go 'boing' and you are in deep trouble.
-Skye - Message by: perse287 10/10/2005 15:26:16 GMT
We had to replace the batteries in our RCX. Hence we needed to reload the firm ware. However, whenever we try to do so the unload starts but is unsuccessful and we get an error message saying that there is no firm ware and we need to unload it. So we try again and get the same error. And so on.
The programme can see the RCX, and the counter on it begins increasing at first until there is the problem. The progress bar on the screen does not seem to ever get off the beginning.
I'm new as a coach here (I took over the team and equipment) and I'm worried that I'm missing something obvious! Any ideas? - Message by: fll-freak 10/10/2005 15:31:47 GMT
What language are you using? RIS or Robolab?
What type of tower (serial or USB)? If you have a serial tower change the 9 volt battery.
Are you operating in a room with florencent lights? If so, put the RCX and the tower in a close cardboard box.
-Skye - Message by: We Dream of Jellyfish 10/11/2005 00:21:14 GMT
Also, I know you said you replaced the batteries but make absolutely sure they are at a full charge! Downloading firmware requires batteries at their strongest.
Marie - Message by: MA_HeadRef_2894 10/11/2005 17:24:39 GMT
i We had to replace the batteries in our RCX. Hence we needed to reload the firm ware.
Note that this is not strictly necessary. If the batteries are changed quickly, and the power button is not pressed, you should not need to re-download the firmware.
i However, whenever we try to do so the unload starts but is unsuccessful and we get an error message saying that there is no firm ware and we need to unload it. So we try again and get the same error. And so on.
I know you know what you are saying, but your terms are incorrect, and it may be that you are doing something wrong. There is no command to "unload" the firmware. The "unload" does not start. The message you get does not say "unload". So tell us what you are really doing, specifically, and we might find a clue that can help you.
i The programme can see the RCX, and the counter on it begins increasing at first until there is the problem. The progress bar on the screen does not seem to ever get off the beginning.
This is consistent with you trying to download a program to the RCX, not the firmware. The firmware is something else. Tell us EXACTLY what menus you are selecting, and exactly what you see, and I think we can help. - Message by: Robocougars4857 10/12/2005 00:42:43 GMT
That happened to me once too: the counter got to about 1000, then stopped. I have no clue why. - Message by: Robocougars4857 10/12/2005 00:39:03 GMT
If your RCX keeps losing its firmware, it could be because your batteries are low: if the RCX stops getting power from the batteries, the firmware gets erased. (don't ask me how or why) - Message by: VO Wildcats 388 12/05/2005 05:07:12 GMT
We have made it almost all the way through the season without the firmware loss....until today. After numerous trys I went to another team and was able to reload the firmware from their computer. So far so good.
Hello there!
Ok, my school has a HUGE problem. We programed our robot, but when it gets to a certian point, it stops and says that there is a problem with the RCX and that it won't load.
When we try to transfer the program from the black tower thing to the accual Robot, it stops and says:
We are unable to continue your request. Please try again later. So, we did and we think there's something wrong with the RCX. If you have experinced this problem please tell me how you fixed it.
-Peyton
- Message by: crazycreators304 11/03/2005 04:44:17 GMT
have you tried removing the batteries fo a while (a minute or two) than redownload the firmware. - Message by: logicalnautical734 11/03/2005 16:09:51 GMT
Not only take the batteries out, but while they are out turn on the RCX. Thiw will clear out the memory. Also try putting a box over the RCX when you download the program. - Message by: CGMSC2605 11/03/2005 17:59:36 GMT
Crazyc' and Logicalnaut's answers are good. Here is a more orderly way to troubleshoot download problems. I've organized the list so that the easiest things to try are first, followed by the more painful solutions (such as reloading the firmware). If anyone thinks of something I've left out let me know and I will edit this post.
- Maker sure there is only one RCX that is turned on in the room. Multiple RCXs will confuse each other and the download tower.
- Cover the tower and RCX with a box so that it is protected from the room lights. Certain lighting conditions can confuse the communication between the tower and RCX. (This will also keep multiple RCXs from confusing each other.)
- If you have another RCX try to download to it (but turn the first RCX off). If the second RCX works then the problem appears to be with the first RCX. Replace the bad RCX's bateries and try again.
Those are the quick and easy solutions, if they don't work then try these.- Disconnect and reconnect the tower. If you use the USB tower then you can try this with the computer still running but you should exit Mindstorms / RoboLab first. If you use the serial tower then disconnect it during the PC restart in the next step.
- Reboot your computer and restart your Lego Robotics programming environment (Mindstorms / RoboLab ...)
- Replace the batteries in the RCX.
- Replace the 9V battery in the tower. You will probably have to reboot the PC.
- Completely clear the memory of the RCX by removing the batteries, turning the RCX on and waiting for a few minutes. Replace the batteries (or install new ones) and re-install the firmware.
- As a last resort uninstall and reinstall the software on the PC.
By the way, Robot Raven Revenge it would help if we knew what hardware and software you are using. USB or serial tower? RIS, Robolab or something else for software? - Message by: fll-freak 11/03/2005 20:09:14 GMT
Just another data point...
I was called to a coach's home a week ago because the team could not download software. I went over fully confident that I would correct the problem in a few minutes. 10 at most. An hour later, I finally determine that the RCX itself was bad. It would get part way through a download then go off into the weeds. Figured this out by going home and bringing a known good system (computer, tower, RCX, and batteries) and swaping out one part at a time.
It is a rare, but an RCX can be bad.
-Skye - Message by: BottishamBarnacles292 12/03/2005 21:25:19 GMT
We had a bad RCX which started to not talk to the USB tower - fortunately I had 2 computers, 2 RCXes and 2 towers, and was able to test all permutations, after swapping batteries, and managed to identify the problem as a bad RCX so it went back to Lego for replacement - which they did, without a quibble.
What is the best way to protect the RCX from getting zapped by stray programs? We tried pasting black electrical tape over the front window of the RCX but it does not seem to be effective. NOw we are thinking of wrapping the entire RCX with aluminium foil. Anyone with better suggestions?
- Message by: fll-freak 11/23/2005 15:04:21 GMT
The new rules allow for tape to cover the black IR window not the whole RCX wrapped in foil! Black tape was a bad choice of tape. Most black electrician's tape is transparent to IR light. Try other types of tape. A good choice is the aluminized duct tape. Better yet, make a cover out of LEGO! Just stay away from yellow that is transparent as well!
-Skye - Message by: knightriders177 11/29/2005 22:00:55 GMT
The coach's book actually suggests putting a box wrapped in aluminum foil over the robot to stop this problem.
KnightRiders177 - Message by: Whalebot1297 11/29/2005 22:25:53 GMT
Hi,
My team plans to lock the 5 program slots from downloads.
If we need to make a change to a program at the tournament, then we'll need to unlock that one program slot, download, then lock the slot again.
May - Message by: Laser7 12/14/2005 01:06:42 GMT
How do you lock Program slots 3, 4, and 5?
Lee - Message by: Future Robotics 11/29/2005 22:35:18 GMT
I can attest that non-yellow LEGO bricks can block the IR port. Our team constructed the "claw" too close to the IR port, interfering with our ability to download programs into the RCX. If we left a gap between the claw and the IR port, we could program from certain angles.
Bob
Future Robotics
Team 2072
Help!! Our tower wont communicate with our RCX. We have tried new batteries and re-installing Robolab and turned off the lights. We tried everything in the read me and ego help. Any suggestions. How do I know if my RCX has failed? The built in programs work now that the firm ware is gone. Our tournament is this Sat. Dec. 10.
- Message by: tsunamis 12/06/2005 07:28:45 GMT
Have you tried deleting the Lego IR tower device in "Device Manager" and reinstalling the IR Tower driver? Sometimes that works. If you are using USB, I would also recommend always using the same USB port for the IR Tower. Plugging it into another USB port causes the system to try and reinstall driver and sometimes you pick up the wrong one (especially when the kids do it when you are not looking).
If that does not work, I have an extra RCX that you may borrow if you are in the Portland/Metro area.
Paul Yee
www.bethanylego.com
It is possible to use programs one and two? Ours is locked. We can only use 3-5. This might have been addressed somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. Thanks.
Karen
- Message by: fll-freak 12/09/2005 03:24:14 GMT
Yes it is possible. Read the UFAQ at www.fll-freak.com/faq for detailed instructions.
-Skye
We are having RCX issues and wonder if you may know of a solution.
We use RIS 2.0 and the kids say that their programming is much less sophisticated and as large as last year. What happens is that when they attempt to download all of the programs into the slots, one of the slots gets the typical download error (Cancel, Ignore, or Retry) and after selecting one, the successful download sound occurs. When pressing the run button, nothing happens. We are able to download into four of the five slots (All are unlocked) but we can't get the 5th program to download into the final slot -- no matter which slot it is. If we try a fake, simple program, it will download into the final slot, which makes me think there is an overall size/space limit that may have been reached.
The same problem is occurring when we use a separate computer and a separate RCX.
Wow, that was a long description -- hopefully you understand.
- Message by: Robominers 01/04/2006 01:25:18 GMT
We pretty much have the same problem with the RCX 1.0. On all three of our RCXs our slot #1 doesn't work. Do you think it is a coincidence or is it supposed to be that way? - Message by: CGMSC2605 01/04/2006 03:01:02 GMT
1. Make sure all slots are unlocked (from the settings or advanced menu)
2. Protect the RCX from flourescent lights and other sources of blnking lights, during downloading. When in doubt, cover the tower and RCX with a box like you would at a tournament.
3. Replace batteries, including in the IR tower.
4. Wipe off the IR windows on both the RCX and tower.
5. Remove the bateries from the RCX for a few minutes. Re-install batteries, reload firmware and reset the advanced options.
Folder: Table Constructions 10/22/2005 16:39:40 GMT
Discussion: table top construction By: rockets1560 10/22/2005 16:39:40 GMT
My team and I are new to FLL. I have a couple of questions about table top construction. Are the sides of the top attached on top of the plywood or on the outside edge? Also, do the sides have to be 2x4? Can they be 1x4?
- Message by: fll-freak 09/10/2005 20:23:24 GMT
The instructions for a table should be available at the www.firstlegoleague.org website. The border is construction grade 2*4 that rest on top of the plywood. The long sides are full length (8'). The sides are 3" inches shorter than 4' to account for the thickness of the long sides. Screw the border to the table from below.
I would build the table as close to the instructions as possible. The reason is that when you go to a competition, you want your practice table to have been the same. Using rough 2*4 lumber may not sound appealing, but that is what you will compete on! Get use to the problems of rough, splintery, and crooked lumber!
-Skye - Message by: PCERoboClub3010 09/12/2005 17:41:11 GMT
To make out table lighter, we did in fact use 1x4" boards. We mounted them on the table surface inset 0.75 inches from the edge to maintain the 45 by 93 inch interior dimensions of the standard table.
Home center 1x4 lumber is typically smoother than 2x4s, so, as Skye pointed out, the competition tables may have more rough spots, knots, and so forth. Maybe you could drive back and forth over the 1x4s a few times before installing them. ;-)
-Galen - Message by: Team O.R.B. 09/19/2005 00:59:10 GMT
Just a thought, we found that the plywood at the lumber store was always warped, green, full of knots, etc... so we used a $10 sheet of HDF (High Density Fiberboard) It is as smooth as silk, straight as an arrow, but very, very heavy. - Message by: fll-freak 09/19/2005 01:16:37 GMT
Look for MDO plywood. It is good plywood that has one or more faced covered in a paper skin. Ultra smooth and only a bit heavier than normal plywood. Only problem is you can't find it a Home Depot etc, but need a good lumber yard.
-Skye - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 09/20/2005 16:51:16 GMT
I just built a portable table using an MDF board (pressed board). Very smooth and light enough 4 of my kids can pick it up, Carla :)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI - Message by: SMART 09/19/2005 02:49:52 GMT
One thing to keep in mind is that it is unlikely the tournaments will be super picky about what wood they use. I'm sure tournaments vary, but that is my experience. Don't be surprised to find some knots, maybe even a bit of warping. If your robot is designed for perfect straight smooth walls and floors you may have problems at the competition.
- Peter - Message by: 09/19/2005 02:49:59 GMT
Deleted - Message by: FO244 09/22/2005 22:44:11 GMT
To make our table lighter, we used a sheet of Luan instead of plywood. A lighter option that gives a pretty smooth surface. As Skye points out, an overly perfect table can hurt you when it comes to tournament tables. Best to get your bot to work on a variety of table, you never know what you'll compete on.
Cheers,
Ken - Message by: merrimack legos 10/22/2005 16:01:37 GMT
At what height above the playing surface must the lights be positioned? I looked at the construction diagrams and instructions, searched this forum and cannot find any specification.
At one point in the past, I recall someone saying that the distance must be 48". Is that true? Is that to the fluorescent tube center line?
Thanks...
C. B. Petrovic - Message by: fll-freak 10/22/2005 16:39:40 GMT
The contruction instructions are here:
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/nobanner.aspx?pid=15900
It would seem to indicate that the uprights are 48 inches. Since the uprights are on the outside of the table, the top cross piece must be between the uprights. Therefore the distance from the table surface to the underside of the top cross piece must be 48" - 1.5". Now you hang your light fixture from the underside of the cross bar. The distance from the playing surface will therefore depend on what fixture you purchased and how you mount it.
If you are trying to match some spec to tight tolerances, do not bother. You still will have light sensor issues just due to the ambient light issues. If you are making a set of tables for a competition, just make sure they are all the same.
-Skye
Our new team practices in a public place with a tile floor large enough for the field mat. How necessary is the table? Have other teams been successful practicing with just borders on a floor?
How about the lighting? The room we use has sunlight variability. Do all teams build the lighting with the table?
Just wondering how we can make out with minimum lugging...or is a table pretty much required for successful tournament performance?
Thanks very much,
Gina I.
Coach, Robo-Ronin
- Message by: fll-freak 10/02/2005 02:26:42 GMT
Try reading this discussion to see if it answers your questions. If not, post back.
/scripts/webx.dll?13@@.ee988f4/2 fll-freak "Is Table/Lights necessary?" 9/22/05 7:19pm
-Skye
Folder: Table Setup 09/15/2005 21:56:21 GMT
Folder: Where do you put the velcrow on the competition table? 09/13/2005 23:50:23 GMT
If you know where to put the velcrow on the competition table, please reply. We were just curios for what to put the velcrow on and where.
Discussion: Dual-Lock By: fll-freak 09/13/2005 23:50:23 GMT
1) It is not velcro but Dual-Lock
2) The instructions are available in the field setup document.
-Skye
The field setup instructions do not specify the position of the Dolphin + Sling and there are no marks on the mat. In the various images it is on the north wall. Is the sling centered east-west on the north wall?
Thanks
JPS
CGMSS
- Message by: fll-freak 09/14/2005 20:20:45 GMT
The field setup instruction have detailed instructions. It must be centered on the back (North) wall.
Sling :
Use 6 Dual Lock pairs to secure this model; half on the Back Border, and half on the Dummy Border. See the sketch labeled Sling, and note that in all sketches, each solid black square represents a Dual Lock pair on the footprint of the model. Measure along the North border wall (don*t rely on the mat) to find the midpoint between the East and West border walls. This point should be very close to 46.5 inches (1181mm) from the inside of either wall. Center the base of this model here for left/right positioning. For front/back centering, position it equally over the North and Dummy borders.
-Skye - Message by: CGMSC2605 09/14/2005 20:28:01 GMT
Thanks Skye. My bonehead mistake, only saw the "dolphin" placement section. - Message by: brightlightsabers1801 09/15/2005 17:04:58 GMT
Should half of sling just dangle over the border edge or do we need to add a small "shelf" for it to rest on? I am purchasing supplies for our first practice table and I'm not sure how the sling will function without support on the side that will be the other half of the tournament table. Pictures on the Sharon Eagle site show the populated mat on the floor, thus supporting the other side of the sling. When the table is elevated I am afraid the preformance of the sling may be different if it is dangeling. Has anyone tested this yet? - Message by: MA_HeadRef_2894 09/15/2005 17:15:57 GMT
The sling is supported on both sides by identical tables. If you are testing at home with only one table, then you need to simulate both the 3 inch width of the back wall as well as the table surface on the other side for an accurate test.
But it seems to work just dangling, too. - Message by: crazycreators304 09/15/2005 21:56:21 GMT
We attached a 2x4 about a foot long where the sling is positioned to simulate the other table at the competition.
Is any body missing our having prblems building that ship that is crash(do not know name)? contact. having trouble getting the red horizontal bar ends to attach to large blacks plates
- Message by: 10/06/2005 04:50:42 GMT
Deleted - Message by: NelsonSeeMonkies 10/06/2005 04:51:37 GMT
What ship? Are you reffering to the research vessel? If so,that was very tedious and time consuming, but the girls finally figured it out. The directions are on the CD, we printed them out to make it a little easier. - Message by: UFM2673 10/06/2005 06:41:48 GMT
While building the research vessel, we had to start it 3 times until we realized that it is was easy to make the red cross beams under the deck too short. We even had three different kids building it. Finally, we got it right and everything fell into place.
ari86m
Unidentified Flying Monkeys - Message by: botsquad8 11/08/2005 00:36:10 GMT
Will some 1 help me w/ my problem? Our robot is veering right and i cannot make it go straight. does n/e 1 know how to fix it???? - Message by: fll-freak 11/08/2005 00:39:52 GMT
Amazingly you have he ability to help yourself! Use the search feature and search for key words like straight, hook, turn, veer, and "limited slip". You can also go visit the UFAQ (www.fll-freak.com/faq) and read up on this very common and nasty problem.
-Skye
Hi I am a new coach, and I have had this question for quite some time. I have seen remote controls for the robots, and I wanted to know if it is legal to use them or not.
- Message by: fll-freak 10/18/2005 18:22:42 GMT
Read Q7.10 in the UFAQ
-Skye - Message by: SMART 10/18/2005 18:31:33 GMT
Actually, you don't even need to go as far as the UFAQ.
It is in the official rules (see rule 6). As a coach I highly recommend you read and re-read these rules.
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=15870
I'm glad they put it in there - remote controls at a competition are deadly.
Regards,
Peter - Message by: FCfllteam 10/18/2005 21:06:41 GMT
Ok thank you.
CJ - Message by: GoldieBots2795 10/19/2005 23:28:10 GMT
Although not allowed at competition, the remote control can be a valuable tool in testing the design of the robot. More specifically, if you can use the remote to make the robot accomplish the mission, then any problems are probably due to programming, and if you cannot accomplish the mission with the remote control, then no amount of programming is likely to help. - Message by: The Inventioneers 1611 10/31/2005 16:57:41 GMT
We have been using a remote control to test our robot, and have come across an issue. Does a motor have more power when controlled by the remote rather than by a program? - Message by: fll-freak 10/31/2005 17:01:41 GMT
The remote turns on the motors at full power. A program CAN power a motor ar various power levels based on what you selected. But the remote can't ask/generate more power than a program.
-Skye - Message by: YellowSubmarines174 11/01/2005 22:32:16 GMT
Just wanted to point out that you misspelled remote control. *underlines remote* *double underlines the E*
-Shard Heilia - Message by: robobees4992 12/07/2005 22:20:35 GMT
Can we use the cable control for the roverbot in the competition? - Message by: fll-freak 12/07/2005 23:20:55 GMT
No.
If you read rule 15 in conjunction with rule 5 you will understand why. Also try reading the UFAQ at www.fll-freak.com/faq
-Skye
Are we allowed to use lego pneumatic sets on our robots?
- Message by: fll-freak 10/31/2005 16:57:47 GMT
Read the UFAQ at www.fll-freak.com/faq Your answer awaits you!
-Skye
Hello there!
Ok, my school has a HUGE problem. We programed our robot, but when it gets to a certian point, it stops and says that there is a problem with the RCX and that it won't load.
When we try to transfer the program from the black tower thing to the accual Robot, it stops and says:
We are unable to continue your request. Please try again later. So, we did and we think there's something wrong with the RCX. If you have experinced this problem please tell me how you fixed it.
-Peyton
- Message by: GoldieBots2795 11/04/2005 14:21:20 GMT
Try downlaoding the firmware again, and then try to download the program. Also, make sure the RCX is on and is not set to turn itself off in a shorter period than it takes to download the program. Also, try running all of the communications tests. - Message by: RoboRockStars1985 11/15/2005 18:31:45 GMT
I'v seen this before, too! It happened to us. We did download the firmware again, and it worked. I don't know wether or not it is the solution, but it might work! TRY IT! - Message by: robot_activator100 12/02/2005 20:52:37 GMT
Make sure No more than one RCX turned on at the same time in the same room even if the room is pretty big. - Message by: STARbots 09/19/2006 21:52:21 GMT
Did you progam it to dance because you can make it do that.
We have been researching ways to make the light sensor more sensitive with out much luck. Many of the suggestions on the interned suggest modifying the sensor which we know we can't do. We tried to build a shield around the light sensor, but that didn't work. We then tried to add lamps under the shield to provide a constant light source, but again that didn't seem to make a difference. Does any one have any suggestions on making the light sensor more sensitive?
- Message by: CGMSC2605 11/03/2005 18:48:34 GMT
About the only thing you can do is to get the light sensor to touch what ever it is looking at. If you are looking down at the mat, then the light sensor should actually touch the mat (or come within say 1/16 inch). This also reduces the affect of the room lights on your sensor reading. If the sensor touches the mat it will read the same with the room lights on and off.
In the past, we have used the light sensor(s) as a skid, that is the 'bot has only two wheels and the third contact point with the mat is actually the light sensor. I'll leave it to you to figure out how to deal with the sharp square edge of the light sensor hanging up on climbing challenges (like getting onto the ship).
I doubt you will be able to differentiate all the shades of blue on this years mat. - Message by: RoboRockStars1985 11/15/2005 18:37:40 GMT
I THINK I KNOW!!! To raise or lower the touch sensitivity, you need to double-click the little rectangle at the top-right hand corner of the light sensor block. Then, it turns on a light sensitivity block to change light sensitivity(I HOPE IT WORKS!). - Message by: logicalnautical734 11/19/2005 20:14:31 GMT
Once we double click on the icon for the light sensor, what do we change? Again we are using robolab. - Message by: fll-freak 11/20/2005 01:58:19 GMT
Double clicking on the icon is not the right way to go. You will find that if you are using the wire cursor that when you hovor over various corners, a hint will pop up. Two of these are the start and end that you should already know about. The other two are in the lower corners and allow you to connect a port modifier (1,2, or 3) and a light sensor value. This value gets typed into a blue number box you can find on the modifier memu/pallete. Depending on what light sendor you are talking about (conditional, waitfor,...) this value has different effect. Hopefuly this will get you un-stuck.
-Skye - Message by: logicalnautical734 11/20/2005 18:24:00 GMT
Sky,
What we are really trying to do is to make the light sensor more sensitive to changes in light. We want it to detect the changes in color on the matt from light blue to dark blue.
Thanks - Message by: redrobots1851 11/20/2005 20:21:22 GMT
I'd be very interested in seeing if any teams were able to do this. Our kids couldn't get it to read the difference between the two so we had to try another avenue.
Phil Martin - Message by: fll-freak 11/21/2005 01:14:40 GMT
If you read chapter 4.4.1 of "Building LEGO Robots For
FIRST LEGO League" you will see that you are setting yourself up for an impossible task.
-Skye - Message by: Ambassadors 12/21/2005 22:50:19 GMT
Line following is a challenge. We have built a Roverbot with tracks. It works with the sample line follower program. BUT with wheels on the Roverbot the sample program doesn't work.We have removed the rubber from the front wheels and it performs ok with lots of fiddling with times for turns and forward movement. Not at all reliable. Is there a gracious professional out there who might share a sample line following roverbot program? - Message by: fll-freak 12/21/2005 23:15:08 GMT
Line following is more an art than a science. Any line following algorithm (LFA) will only likely work properly on a given robot.
There are a million variables that effect the LFA. Do you want to go fast but are willing to deviate from the line a bit, or must you follow the line tightly? Do you want to follow the edge (right or left?) of the line or the line itself? How sharp are the turns in the line? Where is your light sensor in relationship to the center of turning of the robot? How agile is the robot? How fast is the bot? One light sensor or two? And the list goes on and on and on.
Some teams will actualy have several LFAs in their arsenal. They may switch from one to another based on various factors.
I could send you some variations of LFAs but they would have no better luck running than the one you have. Your better bet is to understand how the LFA you have is supposed to work. Now look at what it is doing and make small changes from there. A video camera is often helpful during this stage as things happen soooooo fast.
A good resource to look at is "Toeing the line" available at www.fll-freak.com
And question #1, what language are you using?
-Skye - Message by: Ambassadors 12/22/2005 14:28:46 GMT
RIS 2.0
And thanks for the prompt reply. - Message by: fll-freak 12/22/2005 17:42:59 GMT
I am sorry, I and my team are RoboLab users.
Perhaps a RIS user might be willing to share an LFA?
-Skye - Message by: CGMSC2605 12/22/2005 08:43:32 GMT
Here are a few pointers.
1. The light sensor should be as close to the mat as possible. Actually touching the mat is probably the best (as far as the light sensor is concerned anyway).
2. The light sensor should be at least an inch or two in front of the drive wheels. The more the better but beyond a couple inches the advantage isn't as great.
3. In general, a single light sensor is better at following a line than a pair of sensors. ("In general" of course means that in some situations a pair of sensors is better!).
4. Line followers are really kind of mis-named. You usually don't actually follow the line, you follow the edge of the line. If you are following the edge of the line then the program is different for following the "right side" of the line versus the "left side" of the line.
5. For a simple line follower measure the light values for "on the line" and "off the line". Now calculate a "trigger level" as the average of the two values. For example if a black line measures 35 and the white table measures 45 then the "trigger value" is 40.
6. The line follower just uses a "yes / no" block (if you are using RIS) trigered on the light value. If light value is less than the trigger level then you will turn one way, if it is greater than the trigger value you will turn the other way.
7. Which way you turn determines if you are a doing a "left side" or "right side" follower.
8. How you do the turns controls how tightly you follow the line and how fast the robot can progress along the line. Start by doing the turns by turning one motor on, full power, going forward and turning the other motor off with breaking. for example;
If (light1<40)
then
On A
Off break C
else
Off break A
On C
(You need to explicitly set both motors for both results of the yes/no test.)
After testing this program try coasting the motor, or leaving both motors on but turning the power levels up and down to make the robot turn. The best follower will depend on the characteristics of the line you are following and your robot.
The single "trigger level" approach outlined above will usually follow a line pretty well but tends to be slow. It is slow because the robot never has both motors turned on, going forward, at full power. Instead, it is always turning. To make the 'bot fast you need to turn on both motors, full power, going forward any time the robot is actually aligned with the line.
9. So, a refinement is to use two "trigger levels". Back to the example, if black is 35 and white is 45 then define one trigger as 1/3 of the range (~38) and a second trigger at 2/3 of the range (~42). Now write the program so that if the light value is less than the first trigger the robot turns one direction. If the light value is greater than the second trigger the robot will turn the other direction. If the light level is between the two triggers then the robot goes straight. In RIS you might use a nested YES/NO block, something like this;
if (light1
On A
Off break C
else (NO)
if (light1>trigger2)
then (YES)
On C
Off break A
else (NO)
ON AC
Now the 'bot will hunt back and fourth until it is reasonably well aligned with the line. Then it will drive straight until it has drifted too far off the line. Another correction followed by more straight driving followed by etc.
As with the "single trigger level follower" you will probably want to experiment with how the turns are done, breaking, on/off, power levels of even reversing the direction of one engine.
Hope this rather verbose post helps.
Is there any way to purchase an FLL robot kit after registration closes, before the next season? I'm now getting questions from pre-rookies on "how do I prepare for next year if I want to start a team?" Before Sept. 30, kits could be purchased under the "Register a team" link, but that link is closed now. An RIS kit is an inferior substitute for someone who wants to learn Robolab, and purchasing Robolab separately is expensive.
Yolande
- Message by: tsunamis 11/04/2005 06:11:33 GMT
I not sure about the FLL kit, but Pitsco (www.pitsco.com) sells the Team Challenge sets, some of which come with missions similar to earlier FLL challenges. At one time they had a "Mars Challenge" kit that used some of the same models as the 2003 FLL challenge.
Robolab is the programming environment that is used with the Team Challenge sets. - Message by: CA Volunteer Moderator 11/04/2005 20:12:34 GMT
I just contacted Pitsco -- the team challenge sets do have Robolab, but not RIS, and there is no way to order an FLL robot kit except from the FLL site during May - Sept. registration. The nice things about the FLL robot kit are 1) they have all the sensors, so rookies don't have to figure out how to piece together the extra components and 2) they have both Robolab and RIS, so the user gets a choice. Seems like having them available year-round would be a good thing for rookies.
Yolande - Message by: 10-Bremen Botz! 11/05/2005 20:17:26 GMT
We have purchased the Lego Mindstorms Robotics Invention System when we need more kits. I believe it is short a motor and a rotation sensor that you will need to get elsewhere. The kit and sensors are almost always available on e-bay...
Les Turner
Bremen Botz! - 10 - Message by: tsunamis 11/06/2005 07:44:41 GMT
I agree with the eBay idea. I have purchased four Mindstorms kits from eBay and completed them with parts from Pitsco. If you wait until after FLL season the Mindstorms kits are quite reasonable.
Rotational sensors work beautifully when a tankbot is moving forwards or backwards. But turning requires moving one motor forward while moving the other one backward. Depending on the condition of the surface, sometimes one tread stays still while the other moves, sometimes not. So a rotational sensor is useless.
We have found that the distance the tankbot turns is greatly affected by the condition of the batteries.
Does anyone have a good method of determining the amount of turn?
- Message by: RoboManiacs 11/23/2005 17:26:26 GMT
One solution we have tried (but never used in competition) is a south pointing compass. This works very well for measuring turns but takes away the rotation sensor for measuring distance.
RoboManiacs - Message by: Power Stacker 765 12/21/2005 02:40:04 GMT
We have the same problem that one tread stays still while the other movers. Is there any way to fix this problem? Does it matter where the motor is located, either at the end of the tread or at the center of the tread? - Message by: fll-freak 12/21/2005 04:50:23 GMT
I am unaware of a solution. By its very nature, friction is nondeterministic. In other words it is a dice roll each time. You may be able to minimize the variability, but it will never go away. With the large surface area, tracks are much worst that skinner wheels.
How much you can minimize variability with weight distribution is unknown. Sounds like a good research project to me!
-Skye
Rotational sensors work beautifully when a tankbot is moving forwards or backwards. But turning requires moving one motor forward while moving the other one backward. Depending on the condition of the surface, sometimes one tread stays still while the other moves, sometimes not. So a rotational sensor is useless.
We have found that the distance the tankbot turns is greatly affected by the condition of the batteries.
Does anyone have a good method of determining the amount of turn?
We have been using a laptop to program the RCX for the whole season. All of a sudden it changed. When it loads the Administrative button is visible. After it finishes with the "loading files" portion, it becomes invisible, leaving Programmer and Investigator. Our competition is soon, and I worry that we won't be able to reload firmware if the kids blow the battery change.
I have reinstalled the software and it does the same thing.
Help!
- Message by: Future Robotics 11/23/2005 21:08:50 GMT
I know the answer to this one. I did the same thing. Press F5, and you can get in to the Admin options. Be sure to enable Admin before you do anything else.
Regards,
Bob
Future Robotics
Team 2072
One of my students just brought in a unique lego brick. I don't know what it is called but you press a red button and move the brick which record the movements. Press it again to stop the recording. When you press the green button, it executes the movements that it recorded.
So, my question is: Would this be a legal piece of equipment to put on out robot. It almost acts like a motor, without being a motor. They would pre-programm it and activate it in the base.
Paul Kass
Placerita Robotics
Out-Build, Out-Program, Out-BOT
- Message by: fll-freak 12/08/2005 17:50:05 GMT
If this an electrical part? (yes)
Is it on the list of legal electrical parts? (no).
See rule 6.
-Skye - Message by: SMART 12/08/2005 18:37:35 GMT
Sounds like the Inventor brick. I have a couple of kits - ours is tan in color with a red button on the front (and comes with an unusual number of green pieces!).
Anyway, as Skye mentioned totally against the rules - sorry.
- Peter - Message by: PlaceritaMiners2034 12/08/2005 23:35:27 GMT
Thanks. It is definitely an inventor brick and I had a feeling it would not be allowed. I know the rules stated it has to be a Lego piece, but I did not know if it went over the allowable parts.
Paul Kass
Placerita Robotics
Out-Build, Out-Program, OUT-BOT
- Message by: We Dream of Jellyfish 12/15/2005 18:33:30 GMT
I have been nudging my kids, especially those who have been involved with FLL for more tha n 2 years, to make their robots and programs more robust. I have especially been encouraging them to brainstorm strategies that don't rely on dead-reckoning, the robot going straight, etc.... So my two most veteran girls this year decided to tackle a wall-hugging strategy.
Their program was terrific. On our practice table, it worked 99% of the time. At their technical interview, it worked as well. However, it never worked once in their four runs at the tournament tables. They came to the conclusion after their second run that the side wall was much rougher than any they had encountered before. So between runs, they extended the piece touching the wall to give it more surface area to hopefully avoid or tolerate the bumps and knots better. No luck.
Now that the dust has settled, we are all wondering, is there a better bumper out there for wall hugging? One that will follow regardless of the shape of the wall? Suggestions are very welcome! And we will experiment and report back with our results.
Marie
coach who has December off from FLL for the first time in five seasons! - Message by: fll-freak 12/15/2005 18:44:31 GMT
Tekno Devils built a cage around the robot using the double bent link arms (http://www.peeron.com/inv/parts/32009). The bend allowed the cage to navigate lumps and bumps ans well as bridging holes in the walls. The cage worked well for short distance wall following. It was also very ridgid and allowed the team to swing the robot by it over their heads. That made an impression on the tech judges for the robust award!
For long hauls, they added the small wheels with yellow hubs.
I will see if I can dig out some photos.
-Skye - Message by: CGMSC2605 12/15/2005 19:29:47 GMT
Here are a few things we've learned about wall following over the years.
1. Wall fallowing may well be the simplest and most reliable way of navigating the table. (Of course, sometimes there are things in the way!)
2. A small wheel is the most reliable way to actually contact the wall. Mount it free turning, axle vertical, and without any rubber. We have found that pieces that don't turn have highly variable levels of friction, sometimes changing completely on different tables. As a starting point you might try the double bump sensor in the constructopedia and add small wheels (free turning) on the end of the bumpers. We usually also extend the bumper by adding another lift arm so the bumper wraps around to the side of the robot. Here is the basic idea (see the constructopedia for the details of the bump sensor core)
http://home.earthlink.net/~jimsluka/_images/bumper.gif
3. There are two general approaches to programing a wall follower.
(a) Simply setting the power level higher on one motor than the other so the robot is continually trying to turn into the wall. Very simple, works well if the wall is straight and there are no significant obstacles. Power levels of perhaps 8 and 7 or 8 and 6 would be a good starting point. (If you have a limited slip clutch to help the robot drive straight then this won't work since your robot probably has lost the ability to make gentle curves.)
(b) Using a bump sensor to control the motors. "Touching wall?" turn away from wall. "Not touching wall?" turn towards the wall. How you do the turns has a lot to do with how smoothly, and how fast, the robot follows the wall. Similar to a line follower, a wall follower can be optimized for "speed on a straight wall" or "accurate following of a curved wall". For a straight simple wall we usually do the turns by changing power levels between say 8 and 2.
This makes a great mini-study for the kids. Have them try coding the turns by changing the motor directions (extremely tight turns), starting / braking the motors (pretty sharp turns), starting / coasting the motors (not as sharp turns) and just by changing the power levels of the motors (gentle turns). Which is fastest? Which is smoothest? Which handles turns in the wall the best? And my personal favorite test; Which can pick up the wall from the steapest incedent angle and the greatest distance from the wall? (Start the robot a few inches away from the wall pointing towards it, can the robot find the wall and start following it?) - Message by: We Dream of Jellyfish 12/16/2005 21:24:34 GMT
Slapping my forward!!! Once again the simplest solution is the one that evades me - wheels! This idea alone would have rescued the stuck bot without any major changes. We will definitely play with following different walls - mazes are always fun!
THANKS!
Marie - Message by: CA Volunteer Moderator 12/17/2005 07:29:28 GMT
One alternate solution to having free-running wheel hubs running against the wall is to have mounted turning wheels against the wall. This only really works if wall-following is going to be your only navigation technique, since you'll want to have one motor for drive and the other keeping your wheel touching the wall turning. You need to mount the wheel so that it'll hit any oncoming wall before the robot's body, and the turning motion of the wheel will turn your robot until it's parallel with the wall it's in contact with. For this to work, you'll need to have castors mounted to follow this motion, which by default will be towards the wall. You'll need a rubber band to keep the following wheel against the wall. Oh, and one more thing: with this configuration, you'll only be able to turn either left or right, depending on which side you mount it on.
Such a mechanism would have virtually no practical application, except inside a maze without any turns greater than 90, or a closed course--an FLL table would be ideal. One last note, for the wheel, you'll probably want to use the largest in the RIS kit, so you can mount it as close to the center of the robot as possible, because you don't want your tracking module to fall off easily, which is prone to happen since you'll probably end up having to mount a motor awkwardly.
This method of wall following is mentioned briefly in Mario Ferrari's book Building Robots with Lego Mindstorms as an purely mechanical solution to solving a maze. It's much less elegant than the main one mentioned (pictured here: http://www.marioferrari.org/brlm/f2101.jpg ), but it doesn't require two touch sensors like the other does. Then again, if you're using wall following as your only method of navigation, you might have two sensor ports to spare, and that might be a more practical solution. Really, that picture is worth more than whatever description I could offer here, and it's really self-explanatory; one touch sensor makes sure the robot maintains contact with the wall, the other detects obstructions, the (more conventional) drive motors respond accordingly.
- Justin - Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #15 12/19/2005 15:11:10 GMT
Wall following has been a mainstay among navigation techniques over the past four years for the Mindstorms Mayhem team. They have used many different mechanical devices for following walls, all of which I think have been mentioned here: a cage around the bot, the side of the robot, a vertically mounted wheel (different sizes work differently). However, there are a few other issues I might point out. Have your team play with varying these things to find out how it affects the wall-following ability of the robot:- The placement of the vertical wheel. Where the wheel is placed on the robot relative to the wheels makes a big difference. Play with varying wheel placement in all three dimensions. (up/down, right/left, forward/backward) Where the wheel is placed will make a big difference with respect to the robots ability to be misaligned with the wall yet "turn onto" the wall correctly when it drives into the wall.
- Can you follow the wall in reverse? If the team is using wall following for a lot of navigation, this ability will be important.
- Watch out for "getting stuck" on the wall. The ability to "turn away" from the wall after following it is essential for a robot that plans to do much wall following.
For examples of different wall-following techniques, see the videos on the Mindstorms Mayhem videos page. A number of different approaches are demonstrated with many different types of wall-following mechanisms.
--ken
MAYHEM FLL Co-Coach
http://www.mindstormsmayhem.org
http://www.moremayhem.org
- Message by: SharonEagles110 01/05/2006 16:16:47 GMT
A new LEGO Mindstorms NXT Robotics Toolkit has been announced for the Consumer Electronics Show. We have posted info, photos and links at the Sharon Youth Robotics Association website - http://www.syraweb.org. - Message by: warningchokinghazard200 01/05/2006 16:58:13 GMT
OK - so the obvious question is, will this be legal for FLL in Fall 2006? I'd like to know soon because I have just recommended to some interested parents that they go and buy a Mindstorms kit, but I'm sure they would prefer to buy the latest and greatest NXT kit rather than that ol' obsolete RCX technology...
Dave - Message by: fll-freak 01/05/2006 17:11:27 GMT
I would GUESS that they will not be legal. If you look at the specs, the new system has encoders built into the motors. That means they would have 3 rotation sensors!
I would assume that over time, FLL would have to migrate to the NXT. I just doubt it will happen for 2006.
It is also my impression that it will be a while before these hit the stores.
-Skye - Message by: warningchokinghazard200 01/05/2006 17:14:45 GMT
The press release at http://mindstorms.lego.com/ is advertising availability as "Fall 2006" and a bunch of their marketing material is specifically mentioning FLL. Like you suggest though, perhaps they are looking further into the future.
I do like the integrated rotation sensor though. and ultrasonic sensor.... drool... :)
Dave - Message by: RoboManiacs 01/05/2006 19:47:15 GMT
I think the answer to this question is here:
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=21400
It was released to the state partners this morning. Still digesting the impact this will have on the program.
Mark H.
RoboManiacs - Message by: fll-freak 01/05/2006 19:55:18 GMT
WOW!
Tear up the UFAQ.
Rewrite the Handbooks.
Throw away the tutorials.
Throw away the sub-vi libraries.
Learn how the NXT will play with batteries.
Start fresh!
Next year will likely be one of great upheaval. Makes me sad I am retiering.
-Skye - Message by: warningchokinghazard200 01/05/2006 20:01:04 GMT
so don't!
Be like Michael Jordan and send out a fax that says "Skye's Back!" :)
Dave - Message by: RoboManiacs 01/05/2006 20:40:57 GMT
Yea...makes me nostalgic for the "good old days" (which was anytime before 10:00 this morning) of 1 rotation sensor and bumpers made operational by Lego rubber bands.....
Ultrasonic what????? Suddenly, the fuzzy base lines seem to be the least of the concerns. :)
Mark H.
RoboManiacs - Message by: warningchokinghazard200 01/05/2006 21:25:56 GMT
check out the video at Robot Magazine for a demonstration of some of the new features.
Dave - Message by: sms_ocean_society40 01/06/2006 01:39:23 GMT
Does this mean that the old RCX technology will be discontinued? - Message by: fll-freak 01/06/2006 02:54:36 GMT
That would be safe to assume since no new products have been announced. I grew suspecious last year when the Director's Award trophy no longer had an RCX in it. When I asked, I was told that they had run out of manufacturing seconds. Unless LEGO has learned to reduce their failure rate to zero, that led me to believe the manufacturing line was shut down.
Stock up now on all those RCX parts you want!
-Skye - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 01/06/2006 01:59:59 GMT
Anybody know if we as interested coaches ;) can pre-order these sets? I would happily smack down the 250 right now just to make sure I get one of the home versions. Drooling ever so badly, Carla ;)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos - Message by: fll-freak 01/06/2006 02:51:03 GMT
It would seem that they only become available in the fall at about the same time as FLL kickoff.
-Skye - Message by: RoboManiacs 01/06/2006 03:57:45 GMT
There will be no pre-ordering from Lego. The only option to get them early is to apply to be on the 100 person development team. If accepted, you get an option to purchase a set at a reduced price.
Link to Application
Mark H.
RoboManiacs - Message by: robojoz2186 01/06/2006 20:13:58 GMT
I haven't been on the forum since before Christmas. Since then, our team has a possible sponsor for next year, and the chance to purchase another kit (we have been working with one for the past 2 years). Now I see everything may change. Why would I buy an RCX if it will be obsolete in a couple of years? Any suggestions for what to do for 2006? I am trying to encourage other teams to start up in our school district, but how to I present this problem? It does sound exciting to have the new technology, but realistically, it is going to get expensive to change everything. Does Big Bucks win out again?
Denies
ROBOJOZ - Message by: fll-freak 01/06/2006 20:38:03 GMT
Pros and cons:
NXT pro: The future. Product will stick around for a while.
Lots of new cool things to help solve missions.
NXT con: Whole new ball or wax to learn.
Unclear FLL rules. FIRST does not yet have a
handle on full ramifications. Added expense.
RCX pro: Already have equipment and know the problems.
RCX con: Dead product.
If it were me, I would figure to use the RCX next season, but buy the NXT robot kit at registration. If it looks like a slam dunk, use it. If not, play with it in the off season to get ready for the next.
In the end, it is unlikely that the NXT/RCX issue will make or break a team. Some of the best teams in the world use KISS to their advantage. All the new bells and whistles are unlikely to be a great advantage (at least in the first year).
-Skye "My world turned upside down" Sweeney - Message by: BottishamBarnacles292 01/09/2006 01:06:41 GMT
I'm still reeling from this! I've just completed my first season as a newbie FLL coach in the UK and they do this to me!
I was wondering too why there were no RCXs included in any of the trophies I saw in the UK this year... - Message by: WestMiddleSchool21 01/10/2006 18:40:40 GMT
ROBOLAB. Any guesses as to whether or not Robolab will work with the new mindstorms brick? Will Robolab make upgrades? I hope so. - Message by: FellowshipOfTheBricks 01/10/2006 18:51:04 GMT
Robolab was a derivative of a language called LabVIEW. The announcement about the NXT said it comes with LabVIEW.
Other than the short term pain of transitioning to a new language, I see this as a positive - I would imagine it will be easier to find resources and mentors for LabVIEW since it is already used in many industries that require instrumentation to be automated.
Steve
coach of Fellowship Of The Bricks - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 01/14/2006 23:23:27 GMT
My best guess would be robolab will not work on the new bricks. The 32 bit processor on it will be a different instruction set or at least that would be my best guess.
But this new language had the look of robolab but with a more friendly interface. I belive my programmers are going to like it more than robolab. Carla ;)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI
In the Jan. 2006 Lego Shop-at-Home catalog, (p. 21), I stumbled across accessories that I have not found available for 4 years. Four years ago, we bought a pack similar to the Gear Wheels pack (#10076), even before we discovered FLL, and these pieces were instrumental in our team's ability to build robots beyond the kit -- I think every FLL team should have these parts. Unlike parts from Pitsco, where you have to buy 50 of the same gear if you want extra gears, these packs come with a variety of 15 different gears, but only 1-5 of of each. Some, like the idler gear, I haven't ever seen in any other kit.
The Technic connector(#10073) , axel (#10074), and beams (#10072) variety packs look interesting, too.
Yolande
Folder: Gracious Professionalism 11/21/2005 19:35:54 GMT
Discussion: Good Teaching Techniques By: bluecheesyflamingos 11/21/2005 19:35:54 GMT
Guess I will start off this thread ;)
I was wondering what methods coaches were using to teach gracious professionalism? Are you using an activity, a set of rules, etc?
Last year my team went to state and when the judge asked if they knew what gracious professionalism was they said no. They had been practicing it the whole season but never knew that was what it was called. Any ideas how I can help them classify the behavior they have at meeting as Gracious Professionalsim? Thanks, Carla :)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI
- Message by: IA FLL Moderator 11/11/2005 20:58:56 GMT
I am not a coach, but I'll give you my two cents - take it for what it is worth. On p.11 of the coach's handbook, it talks about Gracious Professionalism. I receommend reading this and taking those meanings that are listed and doing an activity with your team to get them brainstorming what they believe gracious professionalism is. Write down the various "ideas" on a paper or if possible, a chalkboard. Let them talk about it, then read to them what the manual says. Talk about what FIRST means by each statement. For example, "Gracious folks respect others and let that respect show in their actions" is one of the statements. Maybe the team could discuss how you show respect to people, like not talking badly about another team member behind their back, handling conflict in a non-angry way and talking out problems, or not laughing at someone's idea they said for the presentation. While a young person might not realize that they are being a gracious professional when they do those things, it might help to point out that they, in fact, are.
Another idea would be to give every team member a certificate that reads "Gracious Professional". For that practice, whenever a team member experiences another team member being a gracious professional, they fill out the certificate to present to the other team member and write a short sentence explaining what the person did to be awarded a gracious professional. Challenge the team that by the end of the practice everyone should have received a certificate. This will cause the team to reflect on their actions and would be a great thing to bring up in a judging session! =)
Hope this sparks your imagination -- good luck to your team,
Camille
IA FLL Moderator - Message by: EquipoTIS4440 11/13/2005 07:20:03 GMT
Every time one of the team does something that does not meet the convention, I remark, "You know, as your Coach, I'm supposed to be teaching you Gracious Professionalism."
This sets up a round of teasing by several team members, of me, but in the persiflage I do make my point. They also know that they can call me if they think I'm not exhibiting Gracious Professionalism ("treating people with respect, having conflict openly and remembering we have a common objective).
Case in point: I don't permit bad language. "When a kid started saying 'this sucks' I stopped in mid-sentence to another kid, caught his eye, and said sharply NOTHING sucks...except a vacuum cleaner."
After a couple of weeks of hearing "that vacuums" they all settled down to fresh atrocities :-) - Message by: oaklandtechrunners444 11/13/2005 14:08:35 GMT
GP is a key FIRST concept that kind of trickles down to FLL. Go to an FRC meet, and you'll hear it all the time. I don't think we emphasize it at the FLL level enough. Part of that may be because FLL is more locally run - local and state competitions vs regional and national. Do the coaching materials (handbook, etc) make it an important point? Do the local organizers stress it? - Message by: crazycreators304 11/13/2005 22:23:48 GMT
I did a power point and showed it to the team a couple of times. I will show it again before our next competition.
It defined the word Gracious, and then the word Professionalism. Then what they mean together.
I then listed each of the Gracious Professionalism points from the Coaches Handbook and listed examples of what was good behavior and what wasn't. - Message by: fll-freak 11/13/2005 22:59:57 GMT
This sounds like it should be added to the Misc/Stuff for coaches by coaches areas... Hint... Hint...
-Skye - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/14/2005 17:54:28 GMT
LOL ok Skye I will put a link out there ;) Carla
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 - Message by: redrobots1851 11/14/2005 19:25:35 GMT
I don't think that's what Skye had in mind or at least that's not what I interpreted it to be. I thought he was hinting for you to place the Power Point file in that area not just a link back to this discussion. I would love to see your presentation also if you don't mind sharing it.
Phil Martin - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/15/2005 13:11:12 GMT
oopss....I guess it has realy been that long a season ;P - Message by: crazycreators304 11/15/2005 19:55:56 GMT
I put it in Various other Documents under the Resources - for Coaches, by Coaches. - Message by: ZAP2844 11/15/2005 04:13:59 GMT
The certificate idea was a big hit with our team today. Thanks so much for the idea. I used an Illustrator template and created a certificate with a big heading "Gracious Professional". In smaller type it reads: "For demonstrating FLL values: showing respect for others, listening attentively, helping your teammates, offering constructive criticism, doing your fair share, being open to others' ideas, and staying focused on the team's goals" -- These are all the things my team identified earlier in the season as key values in working together and showing gracious professionalism toward each other.
In another spot on the certificate it says, "Recognized by your fellowteammates on . There's a spot to fill in the team member's name, also the name of the team member who "caught" them being a gracious professional, a spot to write in what they did, and the coach's signature - so they each had to tell me about the great thing their teammate did before I signed it.
This increased awareness kept them extremely focused and productive for over an hour, which must be some kind of record for my team who are usually really goofy! We'll be doing it again at our last practice and who knows, maybe the idea will even stick so it's in their mind at the tournament too!
Doreen - Message by: PollutionNukers64 11/18/2005 19:31:24 GMT
Coach Bluecheesyfalmingos,
Gracious professionalism is a concept that we talk about from the first meeting and on throughout the season. We start out by posting it on our teaching board and brain storming the definition. After this we use this term help to keep the team on track as far as gracious professional behaviors. By the middle of the season, the kids are the ones who will speak out about behaviors that are not very "PG". Our role is gentle reminders concerning the importance of learning and using PG in all aspects of the challenge and their lives. We are in this FLL due to the life skills it has to offer. We want these students to take what they have learned here and apply it to all of the aspects of their lives. PG is very applicable to school, physical sports even family life.
So in summary, we start out by defining the concept early in the season. We address what is PG with examples and we do comical what is NOT PG examples for the students to see and understand. We also explain early on that this is a code of conduct in an FLL team. Then we have the students govern themselves with gentle reminders about acting with PG. (If they don't step up the the plate, we intervene).
I hope this helps. We are also open to anyone else's suggestions and tips. Coaching is a dynamic process and we are never done learning.
Coach Pollution Nukers Team 64 - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/21/2005 19:35:54 GMT
Thanks so much to everyone for the ideas :) I started out the season by implenting 'warm fuzzies'. They are basically pom-poms made out of yarn. Everytime a team member, coach or parent does something nice or in the spirit of FLL you take a string out and give it to them. They then build a collection of string on thier name tags to recognize all the good things they have done for each other.
My biggest problem is having them define it in words to the judges but the power point from above was a great start. Now I have been quizing them randomly to see if they can put the 'warm fuzzies' concept into words on the spot. They are doing great at it thanks to everyone's help on the forum ;) Carla
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI
Folder: Marketing, Fundraising and PR 11/22/2005 17:01:02 GMT
Folder: BUILDING BLOCKS 4 COMMUNITIES 10/11/2005 12:02:30 GMT
Our team is working on a Team Building exercise that will be both a PR and Fundraising event (funds not for the team). We will be attending local events collecting donations of new and used building toys (LEGOS, and others unmentionable on this site!) We will be sending these items to teams, schools and communitites hit by this year's hurricanes. If you know of any teams that need the donations please let us know. We are located in Central Florida, if you are in our area and wish to donate please call us or email us and we will make arrangements to pick up your donations. If your team is interested in helping we'd love to hear from you. You are welcome to use the idea in your community if you would like. Our team has built a couple of demonstration robots to take with us - PR and Marketing. We've also done some advance notices to encourage people to bring donations with them to the events.
Ed and Debbie Hardy
Sushi Samurai #672
fllteam672@earthlink.net
321-636-8839
Folder: Ocean Odyssey Logo 10/27/2005 19:13:11 GMT
Discussion: Black & White Version By: dsogin1822 10/04/2005 12:53:04 GMT
We wish to put the Odyssey logo on a T-shirt but all of the files seem to be in color. In order to save money, we want to use at most 2 colors for the screens. Otherwise, we are forced to pay for art work to be done so that only two colors are used. Is it possible to get the logo with just the outlines so that we can use only two colors?
- Message by: fll-freak 09/22/2005 22:09:47 GMT
You would have to contact FIRST as to the proper and legal way to print the LOGO in one color. I am sure they do it as they must print it on documents in black and white.
-Skye - Message by: CO FLL Team Recruiting 10/04/2005 12:53:04 GMT
Did anyone get a response from FIRST on a B&W Octopus Logo for t-shirts? I thought it might be possible to convert it in PhotoShop
Thx,
RP
Does anyone know what type of the font of the text on Ocean Odyssey Logo?
We are trying the add a matching style of "First Lego League 2005 Challenge" with the logo on the back of the team t-shirt. The font on the logo is quite unique and we cannot find it on the internet becuase we don't know its name.
Team #100
- Message by: fll-freak 10/27/2005 18:21:55 GMT
This I can answer with full knowledge. The OO font is not a comercial font. The artist at LEGO hand drew the font. It is similar to the NASA font that you can find from some font vendors.
-Skye - Message by: robot_activator100 10/27/2005 19:13:11 GMT
Thanks.
We were wondering what the limitations were in putting "First LEGO League", "Ocean Odyssey", and the octopus logo on t-shirts to be sold to raise money for our team expenses?
- Message by: fll-freak 08/29/2005 23:18:51 GMT
I think you will find that information is provided on page 2 of the coaches' handbook. FIRST is fairly broad minded when it comes to using logos on shirts but they can't be changed in any way shape or form. Any further questions should be directed to FIRST.
-Skye - Message by: aquamarineguardians3782 09/21/2005 22:27:43 GMT
skye,
are we supposed to use the first logos or can we also use
our team logo to sell to parents and other fans? - Message by: fll-freak 09/21/2005 23:07:07 GMT
Custom tee-Shirts are not needed, but many teams do have them made. They can be expensive. If you elect to have shirts made, you can put what the team wants on them. Some teams put the team logo on the front and the sponsor logo on the back. Some put the FLL or OceanOdyssey logos on the shirts. There is no right or wrong way.
As an example I have seen as team costumes:
1) NASA jump suits
2) Hot pink wigs
3) Solid color plain shirts
4) Enbroidered polo shirts
5) Baker aprons and Chef hats
6) Superman capes
7) Hobo plaid shirts and patched jeans.
Think outside the box!
-Skye - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 09/22/2005 02:16:56 GMT
Don't forget cheese hats!! Carla :)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI - Message by: fll-freak 09/22/2005 02:44:29 GMT
My most sincere apologies for forgetting the bastion of FLL headgear. I shall be forced to flail myself this evening.
-Skye - Message by: aquamarineguardians3782 09/22/2005 02:34:45 GMT
thank you for tell me that i really appriciate it.:) - Message by: krambrookekandokids 09/27/2005 18:12:22 GMT
On the T-shirts, the children wanted to put a hand drawn lego brick and lego man? Is that acceptable? - Message by: fll-freak 09/27/2005 18:39:05 GMT
If you read all the fine details of copyright law, this would not be legal. LEGO, the minifig, and to some extent the brick are all trademarked, copyrighted, or otherwise protected. LEGO is very protective of their branding. They routinely go after people who violate their protected items.
With all that said, you probably will not have a problem using hand draw bricks and a minifig for a team tee-shirt. Now if you were selling them or otherwise profetting from them, you might get in hot water. My team's tee-shirts had some bricks on them, and I have seen them on others as well. As of yet, I have not spent any time in jail.
Just play it safe by not associating the word LEGO with the image.
This was an opinion not legal advise! For the full details you would have to work with FIRST or (heaven forbid) the LEGO legal staff.
-Skye - Message by: fll-freak 09/27/2005 20:00:06 GMT
It has been brought to my attention from a fellow forum reader that I am not a copyright lawyer. But neither are they!
My previous post can under no circumstance be considered a legal opinion. It was a personal opinion crafted from folklore, heresay, skuttlebut, and other such nebulous facts.
Lets face it, if LEGO went after every FLL team that used their protected branding elements (if such things even exist...) on a tee-shirt, they would have a public relation disaster. Talk about "killing the goose that lays the plastic eggs"!
The French have a great inclusion in their common law. "Interdict mais tolere" means its illegal but tolerated. If you want to keep a dog in your "no pets" apartment, thats fine. But if it barks too loud, your out on your ear. Take from this whatever you want.
-Skye - Message by: krambrookekandokids 09/29/2005 17:51:50 GMT
Thanks Skye!
Thank you Dave, Courtney, and Laura for the excellent videos you shared last year. They were instrumental in recruiting the 3 start-up teams we have in town this year, and I continue to use them regularly -- so much more exciting than my B & W flier. For the benefit of newcomers, would you mind posting the links again? Also, if others have more videos to share, we'd love to see them. I'm also looking for GOOD footage of FRC and Vex -- I took some Vex videos in which my shoe is featured prominently.
Yolande
- Message by: warningchokinghazard200 10/06/2005 16:54:20 GMT
The FLL Illinois videos I created (from 2002 City Sights and 2003 Mission Mars) are available at http://www.wildstang.org/fll/video/
Dave - Message by: RoboManiacs 10/06/2005 17:09:26 GMT
There are 2 videos available on our website. Both are from the World Festival this past year in Atlanta.
The first is a highlight video of the event: World Festival Highlights
The second focuses on our team: RoboManiacs WF video
Use either or both as you see fit.
RoboManiacs
Team #11 - Message by: TheFidgeteers-71 10/07/2005 01:59:18 GMT
I have two "highlights" videos.
Mission Mars: http://www.poudre-fll.net/Videos/Mission_Mars_Highlights.wmv
No Limits: http://www.poudre-fll.net/Videos/No_Limits_Highlights.wmv
It's wonderful to hear that folks have found them useful!
Courtney
The Fidgeteers-71
Hi all! I'm just curious where everyone is buying their team T Shirts. I have been using CafePress for the last few years. I like their prices and the variety of products they offer, but their T Shirts have been limited to just a few colors (white, ash gray, yellow, green)
Does anyone have other online vendors they have used that they could recommend?
Thanks.
Dave
- Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 10/26/2005 23:02:35 GMT
If you just want to use them for selling, my organization uses spread shirt.
I always use a local vendor for the team shirts....if you explain what your doing and why they usualy give great deals, Carla :)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI - Message by: Robotics Learning 11/02/2005 12:25:21 GMT
A great Ocean Odyssey T-Shirt showing an RCX mini-sub model is available from:
www.roboticslearning.com/FLL/shirt
We are selling this shirt to help fund some of our regional tournaments.
Steve Putz
Northern California
If we add the FLL logo to a T-shirt does it have to be in the red white and blue colors, or can it simply be black or yellow, or one color?
- Message by: fll-freak 11/22/2005 17:01:02 GMT
The rules for using the logo are printed in the first few pages of the Coaches' Handbook. A monochromatic printing must be allowable as that is how a black and white letterhead would be done. As far as changing colors, that might be a problem. Read the handbook. If that does not cover your case, call FIRST.
-Skye
Folder: Miscellaneous 12/05/2006 19:27:17 GMT
Folder: Breaking Robot 10/29/2005 03:50:47 GMT
OK, I don't know about anybody else, but I think are team would go universel if the was a "Broken Robot" competition. Our solution was to encase it in about 5 tons of lego armour. Anybody else having problems?
Folder: Need Set -up Kit 11/21/2005 23:24:00 GMT
Does any one in the Boston area have a set up kit we could buy or share. we have entered every tournhament - have three trophies - but due to an error our order was not processed.
Discussion: 2005 Field Set-up Kit By: crowders3150 11/21/2005 23:24:00 GMT
Does anyone out there have an extra 2005 field set-up kit they would like to sell? This may include programs with a team that did not form or that has folded. Please contact at (803) 831-1339 or e-mail at jeffrey@clover.k12.sc.us Ask for Scott Jeffrey.
- Message by: BEEPS05 11/13/2005 15:20:09 GMT
no body should have unless they now do not want to enter in a competition so contact the organiser and ask them for a kit - Message by: BedfordWizards3260 11/21/2005 23:24:00 GMT
I also need a 2005 field setup kit. Our team just found a technical mentor to help the kids, and we need to set it up so he can learn the robolab program and practice the course so we can teach the kids better. If anyone has one they want to sell. we will pay 100.00 for it. we need it asap..
Contact: Matthew Cole (bedford computer services) at
mcole@bex.net .. 734-847-3773 - office phone. 419-466-6082 - mobile phone
We contacted FLL and they said they were out of them. Any help is appreciated!
-Matthew
It's always fun to see what other teams are up to. If your team has a web page, post the link here. We will get the ball rolling on this: RoboManiacs
RoboManiacs
Team #11
Harford County, Maryland
- Message by: RoboWhizards95&96 09/02/2005 17:02:12 GMT
Our web site is robowhizards.com
ROBOWhizards FLL Teams #95&96
Delaware County, Pennsylvania - Message by: 09/07/2005 14:34:07 GMT
Deleted - Message by: fll-freak 09/07/2005 14:41:34 GMT
Not exactly a team page, but very FLL related!
www.fll-freak.com
-Skye - Message by: JEMATH188 09/11/2005 20:36:17 GMT
Skye,
Great to see you back on the forum...I wondered if you would be around this season with your kids moving on up.
For those of you new to the "sport", I strongly recommend checking out the resources on Skye's site. As a rookie coach, they were invaluable.
Tracey
JEMATH Coach - Message by: fll-freak 09/11/2005 21:04:59 GMT
Like a bad pennie, I am back. I have no team of my own this year, but my son is mentoring a team of 10-11 year olds. This will likely be my last year, but you never know!
-Skye - Message by: robopups23 09/16/2005 15:13:13 GMT
hi im with the robopups i was wondering how to get to the last lego leagues pictures onthe website - Message by: RoboManiacs 09/16/2005 15:39:22 GMT
Robopups,
Which pictures are you looking for?
RoboManiacs
Team #11
http://www.bgcharford.org/robomaniacs - Message by: SharonEagles2894 09/07/2005 22:43:41 GMT
Our websites are posted as part of the Sharon Sharon Youth Robotics Association, which sponsors a number of FLL teams in our community, by our 2002-2004 FLL team (Sharon Eagle Unlimited), and by our 2005 Vex team (still Sharon Eagle Unlimited). Our team is mentoring new FLL teams this year, and so remains active in this season's challenge. - Message by: TechBrick277 09/09/2005 02:11:55 GMT
Our site is TechBrick.com - Message by: RoboDogs1842 09/09/2005 02:17:30 GMT
We're at www.geocities.com/suwannee4hrobodogs
K - Message by: BRICKschoolers3341 09/09/2005 15:07:19 GMT
This is the first year for our homeschool group having lego teams (2 JFLL & 1 FLL), our main web site is at http://www.hcecf.net/ , but the lego related site off of that is only sketchy at the moment. Spending more time playing with legos, than updating the website. - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 09/13/2005 16:00:24 GMT
Our site is under construction but I hope to have it up soon www.bluecheesyflamingos.org ...I am writing the generation scripts myself so it might be a month yet, Carla :)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI - Message by: monkeys701 09/13/2005 16:13:32 GMT
Our team, the Funky Monkeys from Worcester, Massachusetts, worked hard this summer producing a website. It includes a bunch of cool and useful stuff: A history of four going on five years worth of roboting, including pictures and descriptions; a downloadable version of our Funky Monkey Game; and a section on Tips for New Coaches that I think would be very useful. This includes a fairly long document by the team coach revealing several of the things we've learned over the years, and an exhaustive account of last year's season written by one of the team members. I think this document especially lets new coaches see what a fairly successful team goes through to build a good robot. It willl also be upgraded throughout the season. Please check it out at: http://www.wormtownpaul.com/funkymonkeys.htm - Message by: Vikings 09/14/2005 01:51:48 GMT
Hi i am a member of the vikings from ky. I and a friend are in charge of programming the robot and it is hard any advice? - Message by: RoboManiacs 09/14/2005 15:13:26 GMT
Hello Vikings:
Please try to find the right threads to post your questions in. It will get more attention and most likely more answers if it is posted in the right place.
These is an entire folder named "Programming Questions" for answers about this. If you can post some more details there, someone may be able to give you some advice about what you are trying to do.
RoboManiacs
Unofficial Forum Moderator
RoboManiacs Web Home - Message by: 09/15/2005 17:35:19 GMT
Deleted - Message by: B/TREK1384 09/15/2005 17:36:00 GMT
B/TREK (from boylston, ma.)WEB-PAGE: www.geocities.com/btrek_01505
ENJOY ;) - Message by: engineersoftomorrow229 10/01/2005 23:36:21 GMT
Our team website is www.keithmichaeljohnson.com/legoleague.
The Engineers of Tomorrow
Team #229 - Message by: tweeters714 10/02/2005 02:43:36 GMT
-Soon as our files find a home, we will be posting our website link. This will include such exciting historic and sometimes catastrophic robot events as our past-years-websites, San Jose Tech Challenge photos, and NAR rocket launches, as well as exciting shots from City Sites, Mission Mars, and No Limits.
Stay tuned,
Tweeters714 - Message by: 10/02/2005 04:27:18 GMT
Deleted - Message by: tweeters714 10/02/2005 05:03:17 GMT
Official team-built website for Tweeters714 is http://www.peachphuzz.com/tweeters/tweeters%20web%20site%2005.htm. Of course, access to this site is only for the FLL community. Reproduction of any image in full or part is strictly prohibited. So Don't! OK?!
(H tells me the site is still under construction, but is it ever really 'finished'?)
-Coach K - Message by: krambrookekandokids 10/02/2005 12:49:51 GMT
Although not much to it yet, our website is:
www.geocities.com/annaleepaul. - Message by: krambrookekandokids 10/02/2005 12:51:22 GMT
Although not much to it yet, our website is:
www.geocities.com/annaleepaul.
Annalee Paul
Krambrooke Kan Do Kids - Message by: robochickens3491 10/15/2005 08:47:50 GMT
not much yet... but here it is... www.geocities.com/robochickens - Message by: TechBrick277 10/20/2005 22:31:16 GMT
http://www.techbrick.com
Visit the TechBrick.com website of the New Covenant Christian Academy Lego teams: Tech Brick 1 & 2 - Message by: Redmond-NanoTech 11/03/2005 02:45:11 GMT
Our webpage is at:
http://home.comcast.net/~rajnakkiran/MicroTech.htm
-MicroTech - Message by: redrobots1851 11/10/2005 05:59:41 GMT
Not much on our webpage yet either but ours is at:
http://hfrsredrobots.org
Phil Martin - Message by: PollutionNukers64 11/14/2005 05:57:36 GMT
Just updated our page with local tournament photos...
http://www.DarkMatterFLL.org/ - Message by: oaklandtechrunners444 11/14/2005 21:27:44 GMT
Congrats! Your team did a wonderful job at White Lake. Although I didn't get to see much of your robot on the table - they were across the table from where I was reffing. It is just amazing how little you see on the other side of the table as you are totally focused on what's going on in front of you.
Dark Matter - I remember that name from last year. Sometimes I think it's a shame that FLL teams are encouraged to change names from year to year, and don't get to keep numbers like FRC teams. - Message by: SMART 11/14/2005 23:06:45 GMT
That's interesting - who encouraged you to change names?
Our team decided to go back to one of our old team names last year and stick with that.
Regards,
Peter - Message by: PollutionNukers64 11/15/2005 15:17:09 GMT
Well... no one encouraged us to change names. In September we offered the team three options.
1. Keep the name from last year (Dark Matter)
2. Modify the name
3. Pick a new name
Pat and I were hesitant to open it up to a new name - it's a big deal to pick a name - it usually takes us several meetings, but it is an excellent team building exercise and way to show the team the problems in working together and reaching consensus - especially with 10 team members! Oh, yeah, and I LIKED the "Dark Matter" name from last year and I was sorry we didn't keep it - it IS the kids team, though, not mine.
So, I think since we have only three members remaining from last year and seven new 5th grade team members, not all of who appreciated the subtleties of the name "Dark Matter", after many many hours we ended up with a more age-relevant name - "Pollution Nukers". I'll keep my opinion of it to myself. We did have a few other strong contenders - "Berserk Barnacles", "Polluted Pirates", and "Coral Reefers", the implications of which the younger team members didn't seem to be aware.
I would be nice to be able to keep the same team number, though. RoboFest lets you keep the same number from year to year. I really like our number this year - 64.
Co-Coach Dave - Message by: SMART 11/15/2005 16:56:01 GMT
I hear you about the team building aspects.
For us we do that by coming up with a new robot name every year, new T-Shirt design, and other things...
At this point as coaches we thought "branding" was important so that our school and community would recognize us from year to year. The kicker for us was the year when at our state competition the announcer kept announcing our team using the prior year's name!! We decided at that point that a consistent name would be a real boon.
For example with your team, if I heard the words Dark Matter I would immediately know your team from the excellent video you posted last year. I wouldn't have know who the Polution Nukers were until you told me that they were Dark Matter last year.
I will say your T-Shirt design this year was quite nice. Very bold.
Just my 2 cents on the team name thing. I totally appreciate that it is fun to come up with a new name every year also.
Regards,
- Peter - Message by: oaklandtechrunners444 11/15/2005 19:25:55 GMT
Many teams pick a name when they organize that has something to do with the current year's theme. Thus we have lots of teams this year with names including words like ocean, sea, coral, water, fish, etc. Some of those names will make no sense in later years, and they have to be changed.
FIRST doesn't say to change the name; there just seems to be many teams that do. Perhaps they are more along the lines of Dark Matter --> Pollution Nukers, when a significant portion of the team changes.
I was surprised to see they want team shirts and other costumes to be part of the theme. Ongoing teams that want to keep an identity, or just want to keep costs down, are discouraged from doing so. - Message by: AbaloneAvengers2217 11/27/2005 01:02:02 GMT
Our team's research web page is at www.abaloneadventure.org - Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #15 12/19/2005 17:00:18 GMT
The Mayhem teams both have web pages. As always, much more is planned for the pages than has been implemented...
--ken
MAYHEM FLL Co-Coach
http://www.mindstormsmayhem.org
http://www.moremayhem.org - Message by: botzealots1105 12/05/2006 19:27:17 GMT
Our web site is http://botzealots.org/
-Arlo
BotZealots team member
http://www.botzealots.org/ - Message by: GMT
We have posted pictures of the 2005 challenge mat and models on our web site - Sharon Youth Robotics Association. Given that the sets ship over an extended period, but the coaching manuals shipped first, some registered teams may have access to this forum but haven't received their field kits yet.
- Message by: team_blue 09/13/2005 02:38:46 GMT
Does anybody have the actual and updated photos of the 2005 challenge mat and models ? - Message by: NYCFIRST-FLL Moderator 09/15/2005 23:18:19 GMT
Sharon Youth Robotics http://www.syraweb.org/ has great pictures of the actual 2005 challenge mat and models. :) - Message by: tweeters714 10/02/2005 03:04:55 GMT
HiSYRA,
Great website- nice pics
(and Maybe a Skye question)Is your pipeline shown off the squares? Ours is happy on the squares. Also our pieces are consistantly 6 11/16" o/c approximately. Yours (ahem) look a little off.
It seems that ready position for the pipeline pieces should be east and north leaning. The pipe section should be able to be pushed into place from the north. The pipeline flags should be able to be raised from the east. T or F?
Maybe we are doing this all wrong?
-Coach K
Tweeters714 - Message by: fll-freak 10/02/2005 04:04:10 GMT
Those are not my pictures. Your pipeline supports should NOT be on the squares to be correct. Recheck your building instructions and the field set up document.
-Skye - Message by: crazycreators304 10/02/2005 05:21:31 GMT
Also, the pictures of the red and blue flag mission models show the flag in the wrong direction. The flags must be laying flat on the mat, not pointing up as the models in the pictures would do. Just mentioning because it is very important to have them flat on the table as the assembly instruction show. - Message by: LongleafRoboticsTeam3882 10/08/2005 21:19:51 GMT
Please Read Attachment - Message by: robopups23 10/21/2005 15:07:17 GMT
does anybody have pictures of last years tournament - Message by: fll-freak 10/21/2005 15:32:56 GMT
What type of pictures are you looking for? Pictures of the table, pictures of kids, pictures of robots,...?
-Skye
Please use this discussion to post your useful documents.
- Message by: fll-freak 09/07/2005 14:28:24 GMT
This is a mission planning sheet for the OO challenge.
It would appear that left clicking the link bellow is not useful. You need to right click and select "Save Target As". Not only that but you will need to supply a resonable name other than the prepopulated "webx" I would suggest "MissionForm.pdf".
-Skye - Message by: thunderbolts193 09/07/2005 16:14:33 GMT
Excellent! I was just going to make one.
-Laura - Message by: PollutionNukers64 09/09/2005 16:00:43 GMT
Skye,
Thank you for the mission planning sheet. Could you post only the graphic of the field layout you used on the mission planning sheet?
Thanks,
Dave - Message by: fll-freak 09/09/2005 20:18:56 GMT
Here it is. A PDF with the mat in Landscape to best fill the page.
-Skye - Message by: team 65 09/10/2005 00:12:13 GMT
Thank you, that will be quite useful. One observation though; there is a discrepancy between your graphic and our mat. The thick black border around base on your graphic is not on our mat. Is this another case of missing lines on some mats? - Message by: fll-freak 09/10/2005 00:46:26 GMT
The thick black line is actualy the sand area around the beach. I guess that someplace along the line I lost the gray scale for that area.
-Skye - Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 09/12/2005 20:32:46 GMT
Here is my cartoonish version of a planning sheet, Carla :)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
Team #4 MI - Message by: PCERoboClub3010 09/12/2005 22:15:55 GMT
Looks good. I think it needs the extra curve that parallels the beach (separating the light blue from the deep blue).
-Galen - Message by: tweeters714 10/02/2005 03:41:51 GMT
Looks good. Actually I think working on this cartoon version may make them more aware of some of the challenge angular oddities than a precise map.
-Coach Karen
Tweeeters714 - Message by: 09/12/2005 20:43:37 GMT
Deleted - Message by: 09/12/2005 21:13:35 GMT
Deleted - Message by: redrobots1851 09/12/2005 20:54:52 GMT
In your scoring sheet didn't you leave out the 30 points for the shipping container? - Message by: FL FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/12/2005 20:59:35 GMT
Mmmm So total this year is 330?
Did I do the math right?
-Laura - Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #15 09/12/2005 22:46:36 GMT
I get the maximum score as being 400. Attached is the score sheet I came up with, using last year's as a template. (Sorry, Jack, I hadn't realized that you were doing the same thing already!)
--ken
PS: I would note that I have tried to use wording as close as possible to that in the offical mission descriptions. If you have any suggestions for improvements to this score sheet or notice any errors, please let me know ASAP, and I'll post a revised version. - Message by: MA_HeadRef_2894 09/12/2005 23:44:57 GMT
Ken: Yours is better, with one major exception: I think it really helps to "cycle the board", doing a counter-clockwise survey. I train a lot of refs, and this is key to them not missing things. If you could just re-order your fine piece of work, I would be in heaven. Or near thereabouts. - Message by: Mindstorm