2006 FIRST LEGO League Forum Archive

2006 FIRST LEGO League Forum Archive
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Folder: BENELUX 02/09/2007 10:26:50 GMT

Folder: Batterijen & voeding 11/28/2006 12:39:47 GMT
Over de batterijen staat niet veel in de regels. Er is wel door veel groepen onderzocht wat de beste batterijen zijn, maar het blijft een verhaal met voor- en na-delen. Het lijkt ons de moeite waard om een voeding te maken die, op basis van een willekeurige accu/batterij een vaste spanning afgeeft naar de RCX. Zolang het geheel van voeding en batterijen in het batterij-huis van de RCX past lijkt het mij een volledig legitieme methode. Een groot voordeel is dan dat de prestaties van de robot niet meer afhangen van de soort batterijen of de conditie van de batterijen. Heeft iemand al ervaring met het bouwen van zo'n voeding?

Discussion: de rcx By: innotech1203 11/10/2006 15:06:26 GMT
hallo,
wij zijn tegen het probleem aangelopen dat de rcx steeds vanzelf iets anders doet. dit is erg irritant je moet dan steeds opnieuw beginnen. hebben meer mensen hier last van wij horen het graag ?
groetjes innotech

Discussion: Batterijen By: GLRBOTS2 11/28/2006 12:39:47 GMT
Hoi, het probleem met de batterijen is ons ook bekend. Wij doen het op de volgende manier. Elke keer als we gaan programeren gebruiken we volle, net opgelade 2700 maH, batterijen. Zo proberen we steeds met dezelfde spanning de RCX te programmeren.

Folder: NANO 10/20/2006 01:17:51 GMT
NANO is cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion: Nano By: TURBOTECHS2255 10/20/2006 01:17:51 GMT
Who dosen't know that?

Folder: Team websites 01/11/2007 13:28:24 GMT
Wij willen alle teams die uitkomen in de BENELUX Finale in Delft op 27 januari a.s. heel veel succes wensen en dat we een leuke dag gaan hebben.

Wij hebben ook hard aan onze website gewerkt, kijk maar eens op:

www.risbotics.nl

Als jullie team ook een website heeft, maken wij daar graag een link naartoe, en zouden het ook leuk vinden als jullie ook naar ons gaan linken.

Tot in Delft!

Risbotics.

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 19:03:05 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 19:03:05 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors. The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams. The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Message by: Maerlant 01/30/2007 19:03:05 GMT
Hello Risbotics,

Congatulations from Picobello!
We will see you in Norway, hopefully with a better performing robot from our side.
Is it a good idea to try and get rooms at the same hotel together with Telgenborg? Would be fun!

Succes!
We are,....Picobello!

Message by: GMT

Folder: tips 02/09/2007 10:26:50 GMT
heeft iemand tips over de missie van 2007, of een site met info?

ps tips zijn van harte welkom

Discussion: heeft iemand voor ons tips. By: AC Nano Madness 1133 11/01/2006 15:31:35 GMT
Hallo iedereen.
heeft iemand heir tips voor ons. wij doen voor het eerst aan FLL mee en hebben graag wat tips. heb je reacties laat het maar achter

Message by: 10/12/2006 15:59:18 GMT
Deleted

Message by: telgenborch 10/25/2006 00:11:25 GMT
Tips:
- Lees United States forum. Hier staat veel meer informatie dan op het Benelux forum.
- Zoek op internet naar "fll" of First Lego League".
- Vergeet het onderzoeksproject niet, hier gaat veel tijd in zitten.
- De robot opdrachten zijn niet makkelijk. Het is niet erg als je er maar een paar kunt rijden.

Geert Willem van Manen
Basisschool de Telgenborch, Almelo.

Message by: 10/25/2006 21:04:07 GMT
Deleted

Message by: 10/25/2006 21:04:42 GMT
Deleted

Message by: Tikimabrains 10/25/2006 21:08:08 GMT
Hallo omdat iemand met onze mail geknoeid heeft hier nogmaals onze mail.

Hallo veel zul je niet aan ons hebben wat betreft ervaring.
Ook wij doen voor de eerste keer mee en willen graag wat tips die usefull zijn.

Groetjes en veel succes namens de tikimabrains van basisschool de Meerhoef in Veldhoven.

Ruud van de Looij

Message by: AdelbertusAlkmaar1233 11/01/2006 15:31:35 GMT
Hallo allemaal,

ook wij doen voor het eerst mee en ik heb mij er echt op verkeken! De robot werkt nu wel (voor en achteruit rijden, draaien en gooien...), maar ik begrijp de missies niet echt..moet je de materialen voor die missies nu ook zelf in elkaar zetten? En is er misschien een lokatie waar de missies duidelijker omschreven staan?
Tips zijn voor mij ook heel welkom!

Alle teams veel succes,
groetjes uit Alkmaar!

Message by: GMT

Folder: BRAZIL 03/12/2007 12:54:39 GMT

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:09:42 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:09:42 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Discussion: For Coaches By: TechBrick893 10/25/2006 06:47:33 GMT
We have prepared two useful documents for the NanoQuest Challenge:

A field worksheet for the Nano challenge.
* Scaled 1" to 1'
* PDF contains two pages with a color and B&W image
* Images are sharp (created from source art).

Sample Scoring Sheet
* We found that running training sessions that are timed and scored is immensely valuable

Both are available at:

http://www.techbrick.com/Lego/Lego2006/Resources/resources_worksheets.htm

// Marco

________________________________________
Marco Ciavolino
Enktesis, LLC
1603 Belvue Drive
Forest Hill, MD 21050
410.838.8264
fax 1-413-410-2773
marco@ciavolino.com
________________________________________

Discussion: free the probe By: Coleigo Apoio - 6105 03/12/2007 12:54:39 GMT
We noticed that the nanotip in a few hours of use gets curved, so it makes harder to separete it from the surface. Could we change the nanotip side before our round to avoid disadvantages?

apologizes for the bad english, brazilians here =D

Translation to portuguese:

N*s percebemos que o nanotipo em algums horas de uso fica curvado, fazendo com que fico mais dif*cil de separ*-lo da superf*cie. N*s poderiamos mudar o lado que o nanotipo est* encaixado para evitar desvantagens na hora de desprend*-lo?

desculpas pelo ingl*s ruim, brazileiros aqui =D

Message by: fll-freak 03/12/2007 12:54:39 GMT
Yes you may. In fact, you are supposed to. According to the USA Q&A, the axle should be rotated every few matches.

-Skye

Folder: CANADA 11/15/2007 03:40:34 GMT

Folder: Practice Tournaments 09/25/2006 04:29:05 GMT
I've started this folder for people to discuss the possibility of hooking up with a team from your area for a practice tournament.

Folder: Greater Toronto Area and Surrounding Regions 11/11/2006 01:14:13 GMT

Discussion: Looking for some practice! By: MarkhamWeebots2839 11/11/2006 01:14:13 GMT
Hi Folks!

I realize that there's an official page for practice tournaments on the fllontario site, however I think it'll be easier to get one started here and then have it posted on that page.

I'm a rookie coach from the Markham area who'd be interested in somehow arranging a practice tournament with a nearby team. I'm thinking that we wouldn't even need 2 tables really, we could get by with one.

If anyone is interested, please post a reply.

Take care, and good luck with the season!
--Mike, Coach of the Markham Weebots

Message by: Whizards 09/25/2006 16:25:30 GMT
Hi Mike!

My organization has about 2 or 3 teams (I'm not too sure how many) and I think a little practice tournament would be great!

We were discussing about getting one going and such. I also know two judges that may be able to help out in 'officiating' the practice tournament!

Now, I have to get a bit organized with this, but what time frame are you looking at? Are you thinking maybe two weeks before the real one so they have a couple of weeks to work on it?

- Errol
Workshop Whizards
http://www.ctworkshop.net/fll

Message by: MarkhamWeebots2839 09/26/2006 05:08:08 GMT
Hi Errol,

Wow, 2 or 3 teams! It's great to hear that you've got so many kids interested! I'm doing this outside of a school or organization (just an interested father), and I've only been able to rustle up 4 kids for this year.

However, they're eager, and we're all new and having fun so far.

I, too, have to get a bit organized, but your 2 week date sounds about right. I'm going to have a better idea once we meet this weekend. I'll have a better sense of what's ahead, and where we are.

Which tournament are you referring to when you say 'real one'?

Also, even if we can't get a full-fledged practice tourney going, I still think it would be a great idea to get the kids together. We should see if we can arrange that regardless. Please feel free to email me anytime, mstreet@yorku.ca.

Take care, and I look forward to hearing from you,
Mike
Markham Weebots

Message by: Whizards 09/26/2006 16:26:08 GMT
5:30 am? 4:30am? WOW! You're awake really early!

I'm not too sure which tournament I'm referring to when I say the 'real one'. *laugh* I still have to figure out how the whole tournament thing works, so I plan on talking to the tournament organizers.

We can hold the practice tournament at our head office location, so there should be enough space (hopefully).

I already have a table, but I didn't put the sawhorse on it, nor the lights, because it's heavy and big enough as is!

I think that it would be great practice for the kids, even if their robot is only half built! :) So, I can try and rustle up some adults to act as 'judges' so they can also practice their projects in front of people they don't know.

In case I don't get a hold of you, my email address is:
errol@ctworkshop.com

I have a class tonight, and the day of the class I try and tie up as many loose ends as I can, and I find that I have a lot of loose ends needing tying. So I feel sorry for anyone asking me to do anything on Tuesdays, I'm all frazzled and such. :)

- Errol
Workshop Whizards
http://www.ctworkshop.net/fll

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/19/2006 03:17:02 GMT
wow! who can wake up at 5:30am in the morning? i for one cannot.
mike, i think a practice tournament would be awesome because i'm so giddy about the "real tournament" (as Errol put it) that i think i'd totally freak out, so i need to practice.
where's the head office location? and we have to put sawhorses and lights on top of the table? but then and again, which table are you talking about, Errol? do you mean the board one or the one you eat at? 2 weeks before the real tournament would be a good time to have a practice, but i'm quite sure that my team would be not quite finished (no offense to my team), as most of us are very lazy. however, i'm also sure that we'd get most of it done, if the teachers nag at us, which some of them have been doing in a so very obvious way (no offense to them, but i must be honest).
you might think i'm dumb, but after browsing through people's messages, i can't help but ask: what is a rookie team?

Message by: sempar5621 10/19/2006 05:23:06 GMT
A rookie team is a team that's doing the FIRST Lego League thing for the very first time (even if some of the mentors have been with other teams before).

Message by: Whizards 10/19/2006 16:34:11 GMT
Hi Sharon,

If you ARE interested in coming to our practice tournament, I could see about adding you in. I don't know how much room we have and it's dependent on the number of people that are coming already, but the more the merrier, so it would be great to meet other teams.

If you could email me at errol@ctworkshop.com, I can answer all your questions about the practice tournament I'm holding. It's not "OFFICIAL", it's just something I'm doing with a few of the teams I know so that we 'newbie' teams can get a feel for what it would be like.

:)

- Errol

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/24/2006 03:35:15 GMT
hi Errol,
well, i'm interested, but my teacher is planning to have a practice tournament for my group, so never mind.

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/20/2006 00:24:07 GMT
oh, so i'm in a rookie team too! i'm interested in the practice tournament, but all of my team have to be interested to join, right?

Message by: Whizards 10/20/2006 20:28:32 GMT
*laugh*

Yes, you can email me if you'd like. I can give you more details there.

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/31/2006 03:13:58 GMT
hey, did someone delete my message? i thought i wrote that my team isn't coming to the practice tournament. apparently, coach has something else in mind. i told him about the practice tournament time and he totally misunderstood me. now, he's made a deadline for this project and we're trying to get as much finished as possible. however, there are 'a lot' of slackers who are saying 'oh, i don't know how to build lego' and therefore spent their time gossiping with others about other people's businesses, and people who are pretending to act serious when they're talking about things that are extremely off topic, like who in the group speaks japanese, and so on. also, some are lazing off while others do the work, then they come and yell and say 'shut up' to those hardworkers who have discovered how a structure works and are patiently trying to explain it to them. there are, i think, the equal number of hardworkers as slackers, which really upsets me, but i can't do anything about that. the slackers think i'm uncool and don't even pretend to listen to me (maybe i'm exaggerating a bit). but we're still making progress. our table/board thingy has been made and we're on our way to the finish line.
*why am i writing about this?

Message by: Whizards 11/04/2006 00:45:15 GMT
Hi Sharon,

Does that mean you want to come to our practice tournament? Could you verify that for sure?

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/04/2006 19:43:07 GMT
my team is coming to the practice tournament/preparation thingy at i think it's John Oliver or David Thompson or the Calarny (is that how you spell it?) high school, i forget which, on Nov. 24, according to my calendar. is that the one your talking about?
never mind. i just looked at http://www.fllontario.org/practice_tournaments_2006.htm
and i don't think it's the one i'm talking about.
if it really isn't the one i am talking about, then no, my team isn't coming.

Message by: Whizards 11/06/2006 17:18:12 GMT
Hi Sharon,

All this time, and I finally realized you were in BC. :) Actually the small practice tournament I'm holding is in Toronto, and I just realized we're full anyways. So no worries. Ours is this Sunday.

We are so woefully unprepared. *laugh*

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/10/2006 03:50:56 GMT
this sunday? wow. i think your team must have done a lot of progress to be ready to present something on sunday! ~sigh of jealousy

Message by: Whizards 11/11/2006 01:14:13 GMT
Certainly not!

I'll be able to finally meet Doreen, Paul and Mike, and they will attest to the fact that my team is definitely not prepared. :)

Message by: GMT

Folder: Q & A 11/21/2006 20:24:49 GMT
Post a Question...Get an Answer!!
(at least that's the way it's suppose to work!)
--> "Add Discussion" to start a new question <--

Folder: robot design 11/16/2006 16:59:31 GMT
Hi folks, we are still 0 for 9 in the mission department. I just wonder if being gearless is a factor. Can you share? any help is appreciated....destroying missions actually would be progress. Sigh!

Discussion: Happy to help... By: Under Pressure 3108 11/16/2006 16:59:45 GMT
but yet not quite sure what you are asking for...

~Jesse

Message by: challengers121 10/31/2006 05:16:58 GMT
sorry to be vague....I meant that our robot design does not have any gears....do you think this is a drawback? Do most teams use gears? Thanks for the help.

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/03/2006 02:34:20 GMT
The first (half) mission we did was to just push the little truck onto the cable tester. Any robot that has wheels and motors can do that. I don't think you'd need gears for that. Then back up into the start area again.

Just do one thing. Make it work. When that works, do the next thing.

Have you written any programs yet?

Message by: Whizards 11/04/2006 00:48:07 GMT
Our original robot had no gears.

If you don't need gears, you don't need to put them in. :)

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/10/2006 03:57:05 GMT
my team has started to program, and some of my team mates, like me, are quite confused with the sensors. we tried the practice-program-sensor-things and each one of them had to include these loops, or whatever you call them. what i don't get is, what are they for?

Message by: Whizards 11/11/2006 01:22:26 GMT
*laugh*

What are loops for or what are sensors for?

Loops are great if you want to repeat something.

Sensors are used if you want to sense something. Like light sensors, or touch sensors.

This website:
http://www.ortop.org/NXT_Tutorial/html/essentials.html

Has some great beginner tutorials which you can watch.

If you want, I could explain it, but first tell me if it's sensors or loops you are having problems with. :)

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/16/2006 03:51:06 GMT
thanks Errol. so that's what loops are for! i thought they were for decorating the screen or something, because they're colourful.
how did you find that sight? it's great! however, it seems to take so long just to load one of the excercises. is it because my internet is slow or is it the site? because the site itself downloaded real quickly.
also, i don't really understand the sensors. it seemed so easy in the practices at "control template" or something like that, but when we actually had to get it to do a task, it wasn't as easy.

Message by: Whizards 11/16/2006 16:59:31 GMT
How did I find the site? I try to read everything in the FLL Forum, and I follow all the links that I possibly can. :)

What are sensors? A sensor tells the robot when something specific happens.

- Touch sensor: Tells the robot when a button is pressed
- Light sensor: Tells the robot what colour it senses
- Ultrasonic sensor: Tells the robot if it heard a loud sound

This is great, so what?

Well, you could have the robot do different things depending on what it 'sensed'.

ROBOT: "Oh, I hit a wall, I guess I should stop my motors"
ROBOT: "Oh, I heard a loud sound, I guess I should start my motors"

These are examples, but sensors are great ways to make the robot do different things without you, the human, telling it what to do.

If you create a LEGO bumper with a touch sensor and place it in the front of your robot, you could program the robot to sense if the bumper is pressed. If the bumper is pressed, then that means it has 'bumped' into something, and it should probably change direction, or maybe turn around, or maybe spit out a sound file saying, 'OUCH'.

You can get it to do whatever you want. You could make it simple by just having the robot START when you press a touch sensor.

The COACHES' Primer, the one Skye has created, has some mission samples in the Appendix, have you guys gone through that? Sensors and Loops and such are very basic programming elements which need to be mastered. :)

- Errol

Discussion: What does gearless mean? By: Whizards 10/31/2006 03:21:19 GMT
Allo,

Yes, what do you mean by a gearless robot?

- Errol

Message by: 10/31/2006 03:21:19 GMT
Deleted

Discussion: FLL for ages 15+ ?? By: MELbots 11/10/2006 04:04:06 GMT
I was all gung ho on startin' up a Robotics club here at my high school, registering with FLL, and entering and competing in the tournaments and challenges. Problem is, all my students are 15+ which makes it tough to register for FLL events that are for ages 9-14. :-(

My question was: Are there any FLL events for ages 15+ ?

Robb Wynn
Teacher @ M.E. LaZerte HS
Edmonton, Alberta

Message by: MELbots 09/29/2006 23:01:34 GMT
ok! I'm gonna answer my own question!
I had sent out a couple emails and here are a couple replies:

Karen Rosenthal (FIRST Regional Director - Canada) wrote:

The first is FVC - FIRST Vex Challenge - it costs $275 US to register, $375 US for a bundled kit and whatever your local tournament cost is. check out the following websites: http://www.usfirst.org/vex/ and http://www.vexlabs.com/. There is going to be a competiton for this in BC and Ontario - both on Nov 25/06.

The other is our major competition - FRC - FIRST Robotics Competition - it costs $6000 US to register - for that you get admission to one regional event and a kit of parts that includes gears, wheels, motors, transmissions, controllers, etc. Check out http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/ . The only competitions for this in Canada are in Waterloo, ON and Toronto - in spring 2007

Walter Kowalchyk (FLL ALBERTA) wrote:

There is an older league we are just starting up in Alberta to get going. This group will be in conjunction with the world organization as well.

For now- we are only allowing students aged 9-14 (with leniency in either direction) to officially compete. We are in the final stages of allowing/ working out the logistics for 15 and 16 year old to join this year- but not allow them to win every event, or go to the worlds.

Still in process of working it out

Message by: MELbots 09/29/2006 23:06:22 GMT
hmmm...hopefully a local *affordable* alternative pops up that doesn't require travel expenses or $6000 registration fees! (gulp!)

Maybe by next year, when my students (and I) are all trained and ready to roll, there will be something for us to compete in! :-)

Robb Wynn
Teacher @ M.E. LaZerte HS
Edmonton, Alberta

Message by: MarkhamWeebots2839 10/01/2006 02:28:23 GMT
Unfortunately, Canada is often on the short end of the stick when it comes to these sorts of things. I'm quite happy that there is anything to compete in at all, but it would be nice to have a little more variety and support north of the border.

Regardless, you are truly in an interesting position. You've got the students, the interest, I assume the robot(s), but no competition.

Have you considered perhaps running your own thing? It sounds like the FLL in your area is looking to expand favourably, but maybe you could your own thing started in the meantime. Perhaps a neighbouring school or something?

Either way, good luck with it, now and in the future.

--Mike
Coach of the Markham Weebots #2839

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 10/14/2006 01:13:29 GMT
Well FIRST started out with high-school robotics. if you mean you want to do lego league with your 15+ kids I'm not sure Canada would have a 15+ program. In fact I'm not even sure why the age limit on FLL IS 15. Isn't the whole point to encourage people to work as a team and such? Although First robotics is kinda the same. I guess I just answered my own question. Alright I'll stop talking now...

Message by: botzealots1105 10/15/2006 01:07:38 GMT
Minnesota is trying out a High School Robotics League. You can read about it at hightechkids.org It is just a local program.
Mike

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/02/2006 23:42:57 GMT
Maybe some of your keener HS students can become Student Mentors for a FLL club at one of your feeder Junior HS? If you can get a club started there, they might be able to buy your equipment from you so you can buy the things you need for the VEX challenge, which would be the right age group.

I think we might have some VEX challenge high schools here in BC -- if you are the first in Alberta then I'm sure you could come to our competition.

But FLL with 15 year olds? My team has ages barely 8, 8, 9, and a few just turned 10 (one might be 11 but not sure). That wouldn't be very fair. It would be fun to have a senior FLL division, where age 15, 16, 17 could compete against their own age group. I'd support that!

I saw some very advanced LEGO teamwork at the Seattle Robothon at the beginning of October. The mixed teams had ages from, I dunno, 11 to adult. Mom, dad, teen son, younger daughter, that kind of thing. It was GREAT to see them working together on a 3 hour challenge.

Good luck to you
-- Nora (formerly from Calgary)

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/10/2006 04:04:06 GMT
ages 15 and up? why, that's high-schoolers! no fair. anyways, it would be nice if the groups were age, i don't know, 8 to adult. that would make it not as difficult.

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/03/2006 06:08:17 GMT
Hmm, that reminds me. At the Seattle Robothon, there were competitions for line following, advanced line following, walking robots and maze runners. There were lots of fancy robots, but the winner of the maze running competition was an RCX Lego one (programmed in C I think). (I have a great video of the winning run through the maze.) I think there was a Lego entry in every class, the Lego robots can be quite competitive at this level. Most of the competitors were adults; a large team from some technical university in Mexico were there in force.

You could still have your robotics club using the equipment you have, and plan on attending the Robothon in Seattle next fall, or there is a similar smaller event in Vancouver in the fall as well.

Discussion: How far is everyone? By: ByronBlockHeads4008 11/21/2006 20:24:49 GMT
I'm not being nosy, I just wanna know if everyone is on the same page as we are. We're going very slowly.

Our team is at a stage of chaos at the moment. We are all over the place! It's actually quite funny.

Hope to hear from someone soon! I'm hoping to make some friends this year!

Chloe, team manager
Byron Blockheads

Message by: Randazzo1589 10/06/2006 16:55:06 GMT
I'm glad to hear that we are not the only ones in chaos. We are a rookie team, I have 2, and no ass. other than myself. I have begged and pleaded for help. I am trying to stay somewhat organized but I think it would help if there was more info that was cleaner on programming the NET. We are having a hard time doing basic things let alone trying to start on missions. I am trying to stay positive even with several telling me to throw in the towel. I have a few kids that REALLY want to see this through.
Jennifer
Randazzo teams

Message by: SMART 10/06/2006 23:51:28 GMT
Jennifer,

Are you using NXT? If so, have you tried the tutorials on the ORTOP site? I don't have the link handy, but they are really easy to follow and should have your programmers going pretty quickly.

- Peter

Message by: Randazzo1589 10/07/2006 04:54:04 GMT
Yes we are using NXT and no I dont have that site. I was trying to use the site at high tech kids site. Didnt know about this other site. Do you have the address? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jennifer

Message by: SMART 10/08/2006 18:45:32 GMT
Here is the site...

http://www.ortop.org/NXT_Tutorial/

It is recommended that rather than run these tutorials off of the ORTOP site you download them and run them locally if possible. Here is more information about how you can do that...

http://cgsweb.catlin.edu/msrobotics/html/downloads.html

- Peter

Message by: Randazzo1589 10/08/2006 19:50:14 GMT
Thanks so much!I already have one of my team looking at it.

Jennifer Hall
Randazzo

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/17/2006 02:48:56 GMT
gosh! i wish i was better at computers!
what's an NXT? my team has been divided into groups, and i'm not in programming or anything of that sort, so i haven't been worrying about the computer stuff, until now...
my team is also in chaos, and so far, for costumes, we're planning to dress as fishes. nice, eh? any other ideas?
sharon

Message by: sempar5621 10/18/2006 01:57:53 GMT
The NXT is the big white "brain" block of the newer Lego Mindstorms set. It's the thing that you program and hook up sensors to, etc.

For the older set the "brain" is called the RCX (and is yellow).

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/19/2006 02:39:43 GMT
thanks sempar5621.
hey, what do you do if you're building a lego robot structure thing and you've run out of a certain kind of lego piece?

Message by: sempar5621 10/19/2006 05:17:34 GMT
We haven't gotten that far yet; but, there's something in the rules about you being able to use any Lego piece in existence (even if it didn't come in the kit) as long as it's not extra electronics. So, if you can find that certain kind of Lego piece anywhere you can use it (assuming it's non-electric).

From part 8 (Materials) "There are no restrictions on the quantity or source of non-electric LEGO pieces.".

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/20/2006 00:28:35 GMT
oops, nevermind. my question was already answered

Message by: Quarky Dawgs 10/08/2006 21:52:01 GMT
Thanks for sharing the links! We are going slowly but I am trusting the "process". I wish I had more time to "play" with the NXT myself. We'll all make it and the kids will have fun learning.

Message by: Electromagnetic Disturbance 10/08/2006 23:02:07 GMT
Did anyone else have problems after installing shockwave? I'm still not getting the pictures.
Thanks, Susan

Message by: SMART 10/10/2006 17:20:06 GMT
I did on one computer I tried to use. Ended up having to uninstall Shockwave and Flash, reboot, reinstall, then try again. Ended up working, but a pain.

- Peter

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 10/10/2006 00:01:21 GMT
Jennifer,

Don't Give Up!!!

I'm 13 and a member of a rookie team as well and we are just learning the NXT programming too. Some of my teammates are better at programing than the others and are teaching the other ones the more complicated aspects of the NXT program. If you have any specific programming questions we'll be watching the forum and we can help you out!

Message by: Randazzo1589 10/10/2006 03:53:48 GMT
Thanks, the team and myself appreciate your upbeat answer and will probably be posting questions.

Thanks again,
Jennifer
Randazzo

Message by: Whizards 10/10/2006 18:18:44 GMT
Allo, I don't know if this will help, but I keep a blog of everything I'm doing, with Lesson Plans (I make them up on the fly)

It could be helpful to someone out there. :)

Just to let you know, I'm not that far ahead or anything...we haven't even started working on the missions, I'm trying to train them to be able to program!

- Errol
Workshop Whizards
http://www.ctworkshop.net/fll

Message by: sempar5621 10/11/2006 19:00:35 GMT
Our current status can essentially be described as freaking out. We don't have our NXT kit or field setup kit (or the Coach Handbook, etc.) yet and when I phoned Spectrum this morning they didn't have any record of the order which they could find. Apparently some of the Canadian team orders got lost somewhere between the FLL Registration and Spectrum; so, at the moment our kit isn't here and isn't on its way (but they're currently trying to find it to get that resolved). If anyone else hasn't received their kit yet; they should definitely phone and make sure their order wasn't another one that was lost (I don't know how widespread the problem is but it's certainly very stressful for our team).

We've watched the mission videos, have been doing programming exercises (e.g. from the Coach Primer by Skye), started doing some teamwork exercises and a little bit on the research project; but, since don't have an actual kit yet or field setup so it's very difficult to actually plan out how the field will operate.

Message by: Whizards 10/11/2006 19:55:57 GMT
Wow, that IS stressful.

Normally, I would say to train them on programming, but if you don't even have your NXT kit yet, then that's pretty brutal.

We're starting our mission programming next week.

If anything, at least you guys will be a shoe in for the Project. :) Imagine the presentation you can do with all that time!

Message by: zap85 10/11/2006 19:58:13 GMT
I have had negative experiences with Spectrum as well - they do seem to make a lot of mistakes with orders and I have learned to follow up regularly. I hope your kit arrives soon!!

In the meantime, you should take advantage of the extra time to focus on the research project. Many teams leave it until the last minute, so you have a chance to really shine in that area if you take extra time with it. Our team really loves the project, because they have a lot of fun developing their skit.

You can read the Coaches Handbook online - there is a folder inside the United States area of the Forum which has links to the pdf Files. And use the time to read through the UFAQ on Skye's site as well.

And if you have a choice of which tournament you can attend, make sure you get registered for one of the later ones so that you have as much time as possible to work with the robot once it does arrive. If you do have to go to an early one, make sure the kids let the judges know that their robot kit arrived late, so the judges know how much your team managed to accomplished in a short time.

Good luck!!

Doreen (in Toronto)
Coach, Team ZAP!

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/24/2006 04:10:28 GMT
i agree with zap85. you should use this extra time on researching nanotechnology imformation, which my teacher tells me is so important, and it is, because what good would it do to do a project on nanotechnology and not know a single thing about it?
also, you can do the other things, like developing a skit, costume, and all that kind of stuff.
have faith, and i hope your kit arrives soon (actually kinda copied line from zap. hope zap won't mind)

Message by: 10/13/2006 16:17:11 GMT
Deleted

Message by: tanrobotics 10/17/2006 06:45:04 GMT
Current status: BEHIND SCHEDULE

This is the first year we are coaching 2 teams instead of one, so it has been quite chaotic to say the least. Also, we had to get the kids up to speed with the NXT as well as the changeover from building with "bricks" into building with "sticks" is a bit of a change for some of the kids.

It is also quite a bit a challenge to teach the kids enough nanotechnology for them to be able to do the project. We had to cover everything from biology, chemistry, electromagnetism, and basic atomic theory... all this to kids from Gr. 5 - Gr. 7! How do you guys do it?? Most of the fundanmental materials are not covered until at least Gr. 10 or 11 for most kids!

Anyways, we have one mission completed and several still in the works, but this is way behind where we were last year.

Paul Tan.
Co-Coach of St. Clement's Lego Robotics Teams:
Nano Penguins 1
Nano Penguins 2

Message by: Whizards 10/17/2006 20:17:00 GMT
Wow, if you guys are experienced this and STILL way behind, then I guess that makes me feel better!

Today we are going to look at a couple of missions. We'll also try and hone in on a project topic, which they still haven't decided on.

We do have the logo decided on. :D

Message by: zap85 10/18/2006 02:32:04 GMT
Hey Errol, they're not just experienced, they're last year's champions! But take heart - as a rookie last year I was told that most new teams only solve two or three missions. That kept our expectations realistic.

Paul, it makes me feel better too, to hear about any other team struggling with the nano topic and learning the NXT, because those have certainly also been issues for our team. The project topic seemed overwhelming to the kids at first.

We'll be at the Greenwood competition again - we look forward to see your team(s) there again.

And as far as our progress? Last year, as raw rookies, the kids had one mission solved by mid-October. This year? We're a little farther along than that, but certainly feeling the time crunch. A big time sink for the next few weeks will be dealing with the limited memory issue as the kids figure out how to get all their mission programming in the NXT.

No matter how far you've gotten with any of it, I hope you're all having fun!

Doreen
Team ZAP!

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/24/2006 04:37:29 GMT
OMG they were last years champions? that is so cool. it comforts me that some other teams are still having trouble because then my team seems quite alright! almost all our stations are finished, and while playing with the robot prrogram thingy, several of the boys have discovered how to program the robot, and it was quite good! legonano is so much fun!!!
anyways, Doreen, it seems as if you're no longer a rookie team, so i just wanted to ask, how was it last year at the tournament? was it exciting, frightening, nervousing (if that's a word) or what? were there a lot of judges? did they ask a lot of questions? what were some of them?

Message by: zap85 10/24/2006 05:41:47 GMT
Hi there,

The Penguins were last year's Ontario champions, we saw them compete and they were a really neat group of kids.

Last year at our rookie tournament, it was all of those things you mentioned. The kids on our team all had a great time, but yeah, I think they were definitely nervous going into it. I'm the coach, so I wasn't nervous so much as just really busy keeping track of everything, like making sure they got to their interviews on time.

The judges are all really friendly and not scary, so don't worry there. If you read the UFAQ on the www.fllfreak.com website, there are lots of example questions in there. We just practiced those questions with the team beforehand, and some others that we made up for practice.

The most important thing to remember is that when you are at a tournament, the whole point is for you to show the judges (and everyone else - other teams and spectators) how much you have learned, how much fun you had, and what your team is all about.

Doreen, Coach
Team ZAP!

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/25/2006 00:35:23 GMT
thanks Doreen. what you wrote really comforts me.

Message by: tanrobotics 10/26/2006 05:53:29 GMT
Yes, we were last year's champions, and the kids had a blast when we went down to represent Ontario in the World Festival tournament in Atlanta.

If you want to get a feeling for all the tournaments, take a look at some of our videos and pictures from last year:

http://www.scsrobotics.org/video

http://www.scsrobotics.org

Please excuse the mess of the web site, but the kids have not had much time to fix it up this year (as you might imagine from my message about being behind schedule!)

Paul Tan
Co-Coach of St. Clement's Lego Robotics
Nano Penguins 1
Nano Penguins 2

Hope to see all of you in the Greenwood and Trafalgar tournaments! (we decided to split the two teams into different tournaments, as I didn't feel I can manage the chaos of two teams in the same tournament -- to rookies: yes, the tournaments are VERY hectic... be sure to remember to schedule in bathroom and snack breaks for the kids!)

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 10/26/2006 01:02:10 GMT
Errol: Love your website! Thanks for the link. I am a rookie coach too, and you're right, it is so important to get the kids to focus!

-- Nora

Message by: Whizards 10/30/2006 16:33:55 GMT
Thanks Nora!

I hope the blog would be helpful for the next coach after me. Plus, writing my 'overwhelmed' experience down helped me to stop mulling it over in my head night after night. :)

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 11/11/2006 22:34:21 GMT
Some of our challenges are done. A couple are half done. A few of them have been "sabatoged" by the changes we have made to the robot for other missions. its a bit of a dilemma and we are currently working on it. as for our skit project I have been writing and re-writing it for a while. its going good but it still needs more information. but its a working progress

~Jesse

Message by: nano2569 11/15/2006 08:06:05 GMT
Jesse:

Are you a coach or a team member?

I thought the kids were the only ones who were suppose to write their skit?

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 11/21/2006 20:24:49 GMT
Jesse is one of the older members of our team (13) but we are all rookies. Since he is my son he tends to ignore the words "Don't post to the forum without letting me know". He has written every word of the script with the research input of the team.

-Michelina
Coach Under Pressure

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/16/2006 03:54:59 GMT
Jesse, uh, how many challenges are you doing?

Message by: GMT

Discussion: robot designs By: challengers121 11/01/2006 03:08:49 GMT
Hi folks,
I'm new with a great team but we are just at the robot design stage....i know this is the creative stuff but wondering if there are any resources to "borrow" design ideas from??? Any suggestions....we already made the robot based on the design in the book but a few other ideas would be helpful. Cheers, Dale

Message by: challengers121 10/18/2006 04:11:14 GMT
Hi folks,
I'm new with a great team...we are at the design your own robot stage. i know this is one of the creative pieces but I'm wondering if there are any design type sites to "borrow" a few ideas from. Any suggestions are welcome. cheers, dale

Message by: Whizards 10/18/2006 14:08:47 GMT
Hi Dale,

If you go to the folder:

United States/Miscellaneous
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?13@@.ee998f9

You will find near the bottom a discussion on NXT Robot designs. Personally, I haven't looked at them, but I'm trying to keep in my head most of the questions that have been asked in this forum. :)

Now, your question could have been about the RCX. If it was, there are tonnes of designs on the internets. :)

- Errol

Message by: challengers121 10/18/2006 22:41:29 GMT
Thanks Errol....we appreciate the help! The designs are great! Dale

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/19/2006 02:51:08 GMT
speaking of designs, do we have to design some dorky (that's what teacher called them) costumes to wear for the tournament? are any other groups doing that?

Message by: sempar5621 10/19/2006 05:20:34 GMT
Some teams do, some teams don't. I'm of the opinion that it's some harmless fun. If you do have costumes you certainly won't be alone (some of the FIRST staff are known for their elaborate hair styles and costumes).

Message by: Whizards 10/19/2006 16:38:00 GMT
What kind of team spirit is that? *laugh*

I'm HOPING my team comes up with silly costumes, that makes it more fun!

To one the costume could be considered 'dorky'. To another, it may be 'flamboyant' or 'fun'. :)

- Errol

Message by: 10/20/2006 04:12:52 GMT
Deleted

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/20/2006 04:13:51 GMT
i agree. costumes are just for fun. so is the skit, in which i am suppose to act like someone i'm not. i'm supposed to act sporty.
did you see the movie, or whatever it was? there were people wearing cheese hats. they looked really odd, but i hope my rookie team ends up looking like that.
*okay, this is extremely out of topic, but would you rather be short and skinny or tall and fat? i hope it's not a rude question. don't answer if you don't want to. i just saw it in a book i was pretending to read because the teacher was looking, or at least he looked like he was.

Message by: Whizards 10/20/2006 20:30:20 GMT
Wow, is that ever off topic.

I would rather be happy with who I am, then it doesn't matter.

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/24/2006 04:39:55 GMT
good answer, although it doesn't answer the question.
*you don't have to answer it.

Message by: Whizards 10/24/2006 15:22:49 GMT
It does. :) It doesn't matter to me, that's my answer.

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/25/2006 00:37:13 GMT
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/31/2006 03:38:09 GMT
ok, speaking of robot designs, lets change the topic to costume designs, ok?
coach says that you have to look like winners in order to be winners, which doesn't make any sense to me because if i saw someone in a scrambled eggs costume, that person would seem to me as a total un-winner, in other words, freak, unless it was halloween, because if it was, i think that costume would be great.
it's hard to think of something for Finding Nano. i wished we had picked an easier name, like theninjas or something, because it's easy to look like a ninja. challengers121 is a good name because that team can dress up as mad scientists by wearing frizzy wigs and long white coats and circle shaped glasses. whizards is another example of a good name because that team could dress up as wizards or witches by wear pointy hats and waving magic wands in the air. i like Finding Nano, but it's hard to think of a costume for that. any suggestions?

Message by: SMART 10/31/2006 05:01:26 GMT
You do realize your team name is a take-off on "Finding Nemo" - yes? Surely that should be the source for your creative costume.

By the way, that was a very popular name last year (Finding Nemo that is) since it was Ocean Odyssey. At the world festival there was a very nice team that did a whole musical about their research to the tune of the Finding Nemo song. And they did it in two languages!

- Peter

Message by: challengers121 10/31/2006 05:23:35 GMT
Finding Nano costumes....maybe posters of >>>.Have you seen 'buckyball type dude"...microscope type glasses ...

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/01/2006 03:08:49 GMT
thanks SMART and challengers121

Discussion: sensors By: challengers121 10/19/2006 15:56:59 GMT
Could someone direct us to some information for the sensors? espicially the light sensor (can it make light, or detect light?)

Message by: fll-freak 10/19/2006 15:56:59 GMT
Both the NXT and the RCX light sensors detect the amount of light that hits the sensitive phototransister. From within your program you can get a relative measure of how much light hit the sensor. A larger number means more light.

Both the NXT and RCX light sensor can operate in a powered or unpowered mode. The powered mode turns on a small light buld (red LED). The light from this LED travels away from the sensor, bounces of the first object in the way and then comes back to hit the sensor. This mode is useful for line following or other such activities. But if all you want to know is if it is daytime or nightime, then run the sensor in unpowered mode. Now the only light that can hit the sensor is whatever ambient light there is.

A good reference on the RXC light sensor can be found in the online book "Building LEGO Robots for FLL" available here:

http://www.hightechkids.org/index.php?2-1-1071

-Skye

Discussion: computer problem By: Finding Nano 4894 10/24/2006 03:58:36 GMT
hey, is anyone else having problems with going to this site? i was trying to go to www.firstlegoleague.org when they said that i couldn't, and that it had something to do with timing. is it because someone was hacking in?! OMG, that's so scary. but who'd want to hack into Finding Nano?

Message by: Whizards 10/20/2006 20:31:29 GMT
No problems here, your internet may be temporarily out.

No hacking worries.

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 10/21/2006 02:41:09 GMT
sometimes if you don't type in the " WWW " part it gives you an error message but thats about all I've ever seen

-Jesse

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/24/2006 03:56:25 GMT
no, i don't think it was because the internet was out because i was able to go to other sites. also, i did type in the www part so that isn't it, either. however, my computer seems alright again. 'seems' alright. thanks for the help.
*ahhhh, hackershackershackers

Discussion: Individual atom manipulation By: ByronBlockHeads4008 10/31/2006 03:45:13 GMT
Hello all!
OK. We have a new problem. Our robot keeps running into this mission and completely destroying it!!!!!! Does anyone have any idea why?
And no, we aren't programming it wrong, it just started doing this on its own!!!!
Someone PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Chloe, Byron BlockHeads

Message by: sempar5621 10/20/2006 17:18:30 GMT
It would help if you mentioned whether you're using the NXT (White "brain") or the RCX (Yellow "brain"). For the RCX changing batteries to a new set can cause things like that if you were setting the values in the programming using non-fresh batteries.

Message by: Whizards 10/20/2006 20:32:27 GMT
No idea here, do you have a video showing what you mean by "completely destroying it"?

My kids do that on their own without the use of a robot. *sigh*

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/24/2006 04:42:36 GMT
hahaha, that's very funny (no offense)
and really, what do you mean by 'completely destroying it?

Message by: ByronBlockHeads4008 10/26/2006 20:20:05 GMT
Okay, we have measured the exact start location on the base, 11cmx11cm. If you understand good for you.
Now, all of a sudden, without us changing any actions, it started swerving and running into this mission. I almost forgot - sometimes it destroys the nanoprobe too.
I know this isn't much information, but it's the best I've got. We use the yellow brain, as you like to call it!
Now, what could be going wrong: the laptop we use, the robot itself, or something I haven't considered?
Thank you so much. I am more grateful than words can express!!!

Chloe, of Byron Blockheads

Message by: fll-freak 10/26/2006 20:25:03 GMT
Since it was working before and now it is not you have a few possibilities:

1) The program changed. Even very small changes could have significant effects.

2) The mechanism/robot changed. Even very small changes could make big differences. Even something a small as of wheel is pushed into the robot more than it used to be.

3) The battery voltage is different causing differenct behaviour.

4) Little (nano scaled) gremlims have decided to take up living in your robot. Often playing Barry Manillow songs at high volume will make them leave.

-Skye

Message by: ByronBlockHeads4008 10/26/2006 20:22:12 GMT
Oh yeah, and it destroys the area of the nanoprobe where the magnets are, and it also bumps into the wobbly platter and the rubber bands fall off. Does that help???
Chloe, Byron Blockheads

Message by: Whizards 10/30/2006 16:35:47 GMT
It could be a motor thing. Sometimes, when motors go bad, it becomes more difficult for them to spin.

Have you tried changing the motors?

- Errol

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/31/2006 03:45:13 GMT
are you sure you didn't change any actions? maybe you accidentally hit a button and didn't notice your mistake.

Discussion: Base By: ByronBlockHeads4008 11/10/2006 04:21:06 GMT
OK. My good programmer here has a hunch. Do we have to start in the exact position as shown on the mat or can we start anywhere inside the base area??? We really need to have a for sure answer.
PLLLLLEEEAAAASSSSSSEEEE reply soon!!!!
Chloe and programmer, Michael, of Byron Blockheads

Message by: SMART 10/26/2006 21:24:05 GMT
You may start your robot anywhere in base, but your robot must be completely in base when it starts. Also remember that the base has an invisible ceiling. This is very clear in the rules so I suggest review that.

There is no "starting mark".

- Peter

Message by: ByronBlockHeads4008 10/27/2006 15:24:56 GMT
Okay, that's great! I remember Michael seeing that little black box area on the mat and thinking that's where the robot always had to start.
Now, with this "invisible ceiling", where will I fing information about this exactly? I don't remember anything.

Thanks SO much!
Chloe, Byron Blockheads

Message by: fll-freak 10/27/2006 17:51:52 GMT
Its in the rules.
-Skye

Message by: SMART 10/28/2006 15:23:44 GMT
Go to this page...

http://www.firstlegoleague.org/nobanner.aspx?pid=21380

Then click on the link for the rules, and look at rule 11 - they have a picture of the base with the ceiling.

Please do review especially the rules link, the missions link, and the Q&A link. It is very important to understand the rules and mission requirements and only by reading these will you have a full understanding. After that, if something still isn't clear the forum is a good place to go.

One tip, on teams where I've had a lot of new team members we would spend 10 to 15 minutes per meeting reviewing and discussing the rules and their implications till we felt we understood them.

Regards,

Peter

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/31/2006 03:50:22 GMT
ahhh. i read the rule 11, but i don't get why we need a ceiling.

Message by: SMART 10/31/2006 05:08:04 GMT
If there were no ceiling a team could make a really long attachment that reaches across the board and they would only need to drive slightly out of base to use it. The designers of the game chose not to allow this. I suspect because they want to see more autonomous robots that can move to the target.

Remember though once you start the robot there is no ceiling. Your robot can extend attachments etc. but you have to make sure you're completely out of base before you can score a mission.

- Peter

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/01/2006 03:12:48 GMT
oh, i get it. thanks Peter.

Message by: tanrobotics 11/03/2006 22:17:09 GMT
A team did that in the Maine competition in 2000 (Volcano Panic - we had to travel down to Maine since there was no Ontario tournament at the time).

The kids built a 3-4 ft long stick out of lego and dropped it from the base (it had to deliver a lego "sensor" into the crater of the volcano), thereby removing the need to have their robot climb up the curved slope of the volcano!

Paul Tan.
Co-Coach of St. Clement's Lego Robotics
Nano Penguins 1
Nano Penguins 2

Message by: fll-freak 11/04/2006 00:47:43 GMT
That sounds like the LRT team! We meet them in the finals during Arctic Impact. They beat us with a long pole!

-Skye

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/10/2006 04:21:06 GMT
that sounds cool. my coach said that the robot could go back to base so you can change its arm. also, if your robot suddenly stops dead, you can bring it back to the base, lose 3 points, and do a different station, but who cares about points? we all joined to have fun, right?

Discussion: Space elevator question #2 By: ByronBlockHeads4008 10/26/2006 22:47:21 GMT
We have so many questions!!!
In what position does the space elevator rest on the mat? Dana here is a bit confused.
Thanks!!!
Chloe and Dana, Byron Blockheads

Message by: fll-freak 10/26/2006 22:47:21 GMT
Read Q&A question QA8 here:
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=23730

-Skye

Discussion: New robot attachments By: ByronBlockHeads4008 10/31/2006 03:54:23 GMT
We're all full of questions!!!!!!!
Our builder Paolo came up with a new question- can he attach felt fabric to the bottom of the sliders we use on our robot? He wants to make it slide more smoothly on the mat.
Is this against the rules?
Hope to hear from someone soon!
Chloe and Byron Blockheads

Message by: fll-freak 10/27/2006 18:06:36 GMT
Try reading rule 8.

b must be made entirely of LEGO elements in original factory condition

This type of question is also covered in the UFAQ at http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

-Skye

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 10/28/2006 01:39:19 GMT
Good idea though! Kudos to Paolo!

Message by: 10/31/2006 03:54:23 GMT
Deleted

Folder: Resources - (Links, Tutorials, and Tips) 10/31/2006 03:18:05 GMT
Post all your links, tutorials, or tips n' tricks here!
Start a *New* Discussion (click "Add Discussion") for each new post (unless replying to an existing discussion)

Discussion: NXT Links... By: MELbots 09/29/2006 22:06:46 GMT
Hey all,

Rookie FLL'er here! I just started up a Robotics club at M.E. LaZerte High School in Edmonton and was looking around for some resources on the net for NXT.

Here's the few I found that were helpful:

NXT Tutorials
Philo's NXT page
LEGO Education
LUGNET - LEGO User's Group
HighTechKids - NXT Resources

hope they help! :-)

Robb Wynn
Teacher and Rookie Robotics Coach

Discussion: LOST PIECES!!!!!!!!!!! By: ByronBlockHeads4008 10/13/2006 18:37:21 GMT
Yes, we are still building.
Is it alright to bring in our own pieces to replace lost pieces in the official LEGO set?? We cannot find a few red pieces for the "INDIVIDUAL ATOM MANIPULATION" mission. Is it OK to bring in our own??

Thank you for your generous help!

Chloe Desgroseilliers, Byron BlockHeads

Message by: fll-freak 10/13/2006 18:37:21 GMT
Of course. Read over the Materials rule and the UFAQ. You will see that with the exception of electrical parts you can use any factory original LEGO part.

-Skye

Discussion: Mission worksheet and scoring sheet By: TechBrick893 10/31/2006 03:18:05 GMT
We have prepared two useful documents for the NanoQuest Challenge:

A field worksheet for the Nano challenge.
* Scaled 1" to 1'
* PDF contains two pages with a color and B&W image
* Images are sharp (created from source art).

Sample Scoring Sheet
* We found that running training sessions that are timed and scored is immensely valuable

Both are available at:

http://www.techbrick.com/Lego/Lego2006/Resources/resources_worksheets.htm

// Marco

________________________________________
Marco Ciavolino
Enktesis, LLC
1603 Belvue Drive
Forest Hill, MD 21050
410.838.8264
fax 1-413-410-2773
marco@ciavolino.com
________________________________________

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/31/2006 03:18:05 GMT
thanks marco. how'd you find them?
*i have a friend named marco, too! but i don't think you are the same person.

Folder: Team Introductions 11/25/2006 01:08:12 GMT
This folder is to introduce yourself and your team.

Discussion: Workshop Whizards - Hello from Toronto! By: Whizards 11/10/2006 03:38:25 GMT
Allo All!

Well, I went and made a folder called Team Introductions, since there wasn't anything in the Canada Forum, I hope that is ok.

If not, by all means, delete it!

My name is Errol and I am the coach for The Workshop Whizards, and we had our first meeting last night! In fact, we are a rookie team and I have to admit I am almost overwhelmed about the amount of information out there!

I think I'm going to start a blog about it. :)

Anyway, just wanted to see who else was out there. Considering that in Ontario alone there are 136 teams registered, ONE of you must check the forum!

Is there a moderator for the Canada forum?

Message by: BrightLights2006 09/20/2006 16:51:14 GMT
Hi Errol!

My name is Rob, and I am the coach for the Bright Lights out of St. Catharines. We too are a rookie team, and I'm facing the same information overload you are. Out first "official" team meeting isn't scheduled until next week.

Good to hear from you!

Message by: fll-freak 09/20/2006 17:06:10 GMT
Errol,

There are no moderators as in other forums. There are staff individuals that monitor the content for foul language. They do not monitor for accuracy of any information. In fact, FIRST staff to not read the forum at all. This is a resource for coaches and is very unofficial.

What you will find are a dozen long time coaches that act as unofficial moderators. They answer the bulk of the questions, make sure that bad information is reversed, and that some basic civil guidelines are followed. We do not tolerate rookie bashing and we push Gracecious Professionalism.

You will also likely find that the Canadian branch of the forum (and the other non USA branches) are likely to be rather dead. What will be posted are community related information as you have just done. Those that can read English will find their way to what will be a treasure trove of information on the USA site.

-Skye

Message by: Whizards 09/20/2006 18:31:08 GMT
Ah, thanks Skye!

I didn't know if it was proper for me to just go and make a folder without someone 'official' approving it. I did it anyways, but I was willing to accept the consequences in case that wasn't allowed.

If anything, I'm hoping that the people in charge of tournaments will be on the forum so that we can ask them questions too! :) Maybe I can make a folder called local tournament questions, or something like that.

Message by: fll-freak 09/20/2006 18:45:41 GMT
I would suggest creating a folder called "Regional Information" then adding a subfolder called "Greater XYZ area". You can use that for information about tournaments in the XYZ area.

As for having the Tournament Directors on the forum, don't hold your breath. Most of them will not have asked for the forum code, others do not have the time. Some of them do not even know they will be Tournament Directors in a month's time!

Trying to get tournament information is the ugly side of FLL. As a volunteer organization, FIRST cant impose standards of excelence like providing an active forum member, having a website, or even sending out an information packet in advance. Many teams will be left to call FIRST to get the contact information for the state partner, then talk to the state partner to get the local director's contact information.

-Skye

Message by: Whizards 09/20/2006 18:27:34 GMT
I spent four days for 8 hours each day on FLL research and prep work. I still don't think I have a proper handle on it! :)

Anyways, I'm very grateful to the amount of material out there.

I've already written a long and rather verbose account of my first meeting. If people are interested in that, I can post it on a website somewhere.

Message by: MarkhamWeebots2839 09/20/2006 18:29:42 GMT
Hello Fellow Canuckers!

I'm the coach for team 2839, the Mark ham Weebots. We are also complete rookies in this, and are having a blast so far!

I'm very glad to hear from some of the other Canadian coaches out there. You're right. You'd figure with so many Canadian teams, that there' be a little more activity in this forum.

I'm personally hoping we can get a forum going with a little more communication regarding tournaments and venues. I know things are still in flux around the whole issue, but let's hope that the tournament coordinators will use this forum to communicate with us.

I too, am planning on starting a team log for the kids. I know they'll be quite happy to see their progress charted in a log like that.

I notice that you're from Tor onto. If you're interested, perhaps we could contact each other and perhaps arrange a practice tourney with some teams? Just a thought...

Take care all, and good luck,
Mike.

Message by: IceChips2534 09/20/2006 19:12:45 GMT
Hi everyone,

I'm the coach for the Ice Chips (2534) and we're from the North Bay area in Ontario.. This is my third year doing this, and I'm still learning lots. It is lots of hard work, but boy is it worth it!!

As Sky said earlier, make sure you check out the US portion of the forum. Don't hesitate to post to it if you have a question. There are very valuable pieces of information about strategy, rules, programming, projects, etc. I make it a habit of trying to check each day on my lunch break for any new posts since it is so helpful.

Another web site to keep track of is fllcanada.org. There are links to the provincial sites. At least for Ontario, that is where you will find information about the regional tournaments.

I would like to invite everybody to the regional tournament in Sudbury, Ontario. It is held at Science North on November 25'th. While the drive may be a little further for some teams, it can be made into a weekend trip since the kids can spend the extra time at the science centre, touring the Big Nickel mine, etc.

Best of luck and don't forget to have fun!

Message by: Whizards 09/21/2006 00:14:46 GMT
I'm blogging my experience. :)

If anyone is interested, you can check it out:

http://www.ctworkshop.net/fll/

Good to meet all of you, by the way! I will try and get in touch with tournament people and see what I can find out because I have a few questions about it! I will post the results here!

Message by: zap85 09/21/2006 02:57:12 GMT
Hello from another Toronto team.

I am the coach for ZAP, a homeschool team. This is our second year competing, and this year we are also mentoring a couple of new teams.

I can certainly remember how overwhelming it all felt last year as a rookie coach. There is a huge learning curve for new teams. I agree with the advice to check the US forum regularly, and you should also check the Challenge Q&A section in the US (not Canada) area of the website every week. If you haven't found them, go to these websites which have the best basic information for getting started: www.fll-freak.com (the home of the UFAQ), www.hightechkids.org, and www.ortop.org.

One other piece of advice: don't assume anything, particularly concerning the missions. It's easy to read into things and make assumptions that are wrong and will mislead you.

With regard to tournament registration in Ontario, the tournaments are listed on the website at www.fllontario.org. The Qualifying Tournaments are the competitions which advance teams to the provincial competition. Practice Tournaments (if there are any) are just for fun, and have nothing to do with advancing to another level of competition.

There isn't a formal way of organizing who goes to which qualifying tournament, so it is up to you to get in touch with the director of the tournament where you want to compete, and find out when and how they are handling their registrations. Keep in mind that this early, they are still getting organized themselves and there may still be changes in the dates and locations of some of the Ontario tournaments.

Last year our team competed at Greenwood College in Toronto, and it was an excellent tournament - well organized, a good emcee, friendly atmosphere, excellent and friendly judges, and we were able to get some written feedback from the judges (although this was only because I specifically asked for it). We also competed at the provincials at Crescent School, and it was a much larger tournament so a very different, but also really fun experience.

Good luck, ask lots of questions, and remember that if the kids are learning and having fun, that's really all that matters.

Doreen, Team ZAP!

Message by: crusaders106 09/22/2006 03:05:53 GMT
Hello from Newfoundland. It's nice to hear from other Canadian teams, especially the rookie teams. This is a great experience and we're sure you'll enjoy every minute of it. We've also participated in the World Festival in Atlanta for the past 3 years, and if there's ever an event to participate in, that's it. Wow! Others have mentioned the US section of the forum, and I'd like to also add that it's the place to go to see active discussions about rules, strategies, and concerns that most of us are probably having also.
Good luck to everyone.

Norm (coach), St Francis School, Team 106

Message by: KHL635 09/22/2006 14:14:21 GMT
Hi From Kingston!

We are a rookie team made up of homeschoolers. As novices we are definitely feeling that "steep learning curve", but are enjoying the process of figuring things out. We*d be interested in getting together with others for a practice tournament, even if it means a driving to the Toronto area.

Christine, KHL635

Message by: sempar5621 09/29/2006 18:13:16 GMT
Hello (also from Kingston)

I'm mentoring a rookie team and we just finished confirming that this could happen yesterday. We haven't had our first meeting yet (and I haven't seen the kids) but I'm very excited for that next Tuesday. I've been a coach for an FFL team once before, but, that was when I was a student on a FIRST Robotics team and the adult mentors took care of a lot of the logistics which I now get to figure out first hand.

I personally have some interest in a practice tournament before the real tournament; but, would have to talk it over with the team first. Since us mentors are all part of a Queen's organisation (the Computing Students' Association) I can book a room on the Queen's campus for a practice at no cost.

Tim

Message by: KHL635 09/29/2006 18:19:05 GMT
Sounds great, please keep us posted.

Christine
cbibic@cogeco.ca

Message by: Block-Robotics-4670 09/28/2006 16:31:49 GMT
Hello from Windsor!
I'm one of the rookie coaches for an all girls team called the Royal Girls from Block Robotics. 2 of the girls were on the boys' team last year but 2 are new. I have so much to learn!!! Thanks for all the great links. Although there isn't that much going on at the end of Ontario, we do have alot just across the border. Happy building!
Kimbamor (coach) Royal Girls, Team 4670

Message by: Gizmos&Gadgets1645 09/29/2006 20:46:55 GMT
Greetings from Port Perry! We're a rookie group too. We actually have 2 teams running out of our school... We're new to everything - including the forum - so I thought I'd drop a line and make contact! Cheers, Kirsten

Message by: 10/06/2006 15:46:53 GMT
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Message by: ByronBlockHeads4008 10/06/2006 15:38:20 GMT
Hello fellow LEGO Challengers!!!!!!
So, how's it going yall?

Yes, we're rookies too, although we have been participating
for about 4 years. We've never gotten to the Challenge before, but maybe this is our lucky YEAR!

Our team is the Byron Blockheads in Byron, London. We are actually a class and our science topic is, of course, the LEGO Challenge. How fun is that?!

So, hope maybe somebody can drop a few lines of wisdom for us all! Can't wait to (hopefully) see you at the Challenge!

Chloe, team manager

Message by: Robofish1906 10/10/2006 22:07:37 GMT
Well, here we are from Fisherville Junior High in Toronto. We are located just to the left of center at the top of the city limits. We are new, completely new, with a team of 10 made up of grade 7's and a couple of 8's. So far we have enjoyed assembling the game board and pieces. Now we need to figure out (to some stunned disbelief- What, no plans?) how to build the machine that will do all these tasks. Should be fun and it is great to be on board. We are called Robofish.

Message by: 10/17/2006 01:47:11 GMT
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Message by: 10/17/2006 01:54:15 GMT
Deleted

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/17/2006 02:38:51 GMT
well, I'm sharon. I have no idea why I have to be the one to check this site, but actually, it's quite cool. i am not from toronto, but oh well. vancouver is close enough! this site is really confusing to me.
my team (15 people including me) and I are from mcbride. the name 'finding nano' was made when a friend of mine suddenly and weirdly thought about the movie 'finding nemo', which is a touching movie that i'm sure you have watched. anyways, we just changed nemo to nano and viola! our name is made. we are all so confused with practically everything, and we are all so nervous. the tournament thing is in about a month and we've just picked our team name, but we're getting started. we've pretty much planned out who is doing what, and we're starting to work on the 'real thing' now. if we have any trouble, i'll just post it up and hopefully all questions will be answered.

Message by: Whizards 10/17/2006 20:19:42 GMT
No worries sharon, the site was confusing to me when I first logged on too.

Mind you, I first logged on before the site was ready, and there were no posts or anything and I was really confused how to read messages and post messages. Then I realized there were no messages to read.

Took me another month to figure out how to read unread messages without individually going into each folder. :)

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/19/2006 02:58:44 GMT
Errol, you logged on before the site was ready? cool!
i'm quite glad at the moment. my group and i are starting to get along, so some progress has been made, although some people are still fooling around when the teacher is gone.
at first i was very nervous about this whole nano lego thing, but now, i'm actually having fun! it's great!

Message by: MarkhamWeebots2839 10/17/2006 03:56:02 GMT
Welcome aboard! Make sure to post any questions you may have, in the United States forums. You'll get much faster responses to questions posted there.

Good luck!
--Mike
Coach of the Markham Weebots #2839

Message by: RoboPirates3846 10/19/2006 21:56:07 GMT
what would happen if you are missing pieces, can you use bioncle pieces?

Message by: fll-freak 10/19/2006 22:18:32 GMT
Sure can. Read the UFAQ (http://www.fll-freak.com/faq) for the long answer.

-Skye

Message by: nano2569 10/30/2006 07:41:08 GMT
Great to see so many messages from Canadian teams. The last time I looked in this folder it was almost empty!

Our team, the Nanostormers ( http://www.nanostormers.com are a rookie team from Victoria BC.

Some days, it feels like there's a lot of reading for coaches, but the kids are having fun and learning lots of interesting stuff. I just have to remind myself that that is why I volunteered.

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/31/2006 02:46:02 GMT
almost empty? impossible. and this whole nano lego thing is meant for kids to learn and have fun, right?
anyways, is everyone who is using this site a coach? 'cause it seems like that.

Message by: fll-freak 10/31/2006 02:55:06 GMT
Yes this forum is intended for coaches or for students monitored by their coach. Read disclaimers 2&3 when you first log in:

2) FIRST LEGO League requires that an adult be present at all times while team members are viewing the forum.

3) The coach is responsible for closely monitoring all team member submissions to the forum.

-Skye

Message by: tanrobotics 11/05/2006 08:43:27 GMT
Hi Everyone!

We are two all girls teams from St. Clement's School in Toronto. Our success last year has encouraged a lot of kids to join this year, so we are coaching two teams:

Nano Penguins 1 (Grade 7/8)
Nano Penguins 2 (Grade 5/6)

Nano Penguins 2 will be competing at the Greenwood tournament, and Nano Penguins 1 will be competing at the Oakville Trafalgar High School Tournament.

Good Luck everyone, and I hope to have the pleasure of meeting all of you at the various tournaments!!

Paul Tan.
Co-Coach of St. Clement's Lego Robotics

ps... sorry about the late introductions, but I finally got a chance to get both teams on track, so I finally can catch up on all the messages in these forums!

Message by: Whizards 11/06/2006 17:19:58 GMT
Catch up on all the messages? Good luck! I've been trying to keep up every day but there's so many! :)

Message by: tanrobotics 11/06/2006 17:56:41 GMT
Lol... believe it or not, I finally did read all the messages ;)

Paul Tan.

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/10/2006 03:38:25 GMT
good for you Paul!

ps. okay, i like penguins and everything, but why so many?

Discussion: Under Pressure! Hi from North Bay!!! By: Under Pressure 3108 10/21/2006 02:39:24 GMT
Hi Guys!

We are a rookie team from north bay. we got our team name from of course the classic Queen and David Bowie song "Under Pressure". And the fact that we were under a lot of pressure to come up with a name. so I finnally threw out "how about under pressure???" and we decided on that! our website is http://flashagames.ca/fll/index.html . its a spinoff site to my friends gaming site flashagames.ca!!!!

We are really excited to be participating in this FLL thing. My brother and I saw the team "Ice Chips" in action and then we saw them performe at sudbury!!!! awesome team!!!

We got sooo excited we started our own!!!!!
hi once again!

-Jesse

Message by: Whizards 10/17/2006 20:21:45 GMT
Welcome Jesse!

More and more Canadians on the site...and also posting a new thread as opposed to just replying to mine. *laugh*

- Errol

Message by: IceChips2534 10/18/2006 22:34:25 GMT
Hi Jesse.

It's great to have another northern team. Don't hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions or want to brainstorm. As well, the registration for the Sudbury tournament is underway. Check out the www.fllontario.org web site for the link to Science North. The registration will close later this month.

Jean - coach
Ice Chips

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 10/21/2006 02:39:24 GMT
Hi Jean,

Thnks for the offer of help, and yes we have registered for the tournament already.

My mom wanted me to thank you for giving her name to the guy in Sudbury. She will probably email you soon.

The team is interested in meeting with your team before the tournament to say hi and maybe compare strategies or whatever.

-Jesse

Discussion: Any teams in BC? By: Mindstorm Masters 11/25/2006 01:08:12 GMT
We are a rookie team based in Tsawwassen, which is south of Vancouver and just north of the US border.

Are there any teams nearby that we can connect with ... maybe say Hi! or get some mentoring help? I think it would be fun for our kids to meet a team that has already competed, but really we'd just like to meet ANYONE who is in the same boat.

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/26/2006 20:13:06 GMT
hi!!!! we're a rookie team from bc too!
my name is sharon and we're from vancouver.
nice to meet you.
sorry we're first timers. can't change that for now.

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 10/26/2006 23:16:56 GMT
Nice to meet you, Sharon. Whereabouts are you in Vancouver? Will you be going to the competition at the end of November?

Message by: nano2569 10/30/2006 07:36:23 GMT
HI:

I'm coaching a rookie team from Victoria, the NanoStormers.
There's only one tournament in BC, so we'll meet you in a few weeks!

Our kids are just starting to work on a website.
http://www.nanostormers.com

Hopefully, it will get more interesting in the next week or so. At this point, it's mostly a discussion on logos.

--
Christine

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/31/2006 02:53:18 GMT
hi beach grove robotics and christine. i'm in the...city of vancouver, the greater vancouver? i'm not sure if that answers your question, does it?
there's only one tournament? why's that? and does that mean that people from toronto have to travel all the way from there to bc just to come to a tournament? and the tournament is on Nov. 25, right? (just checking)

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 10/31/2006 19:43:29 GMT
Hi Christine, thanks for checking in.

How far behind are you? I feel like we are just getting started, although we've accomplished a lot, there is so much more to do.

The BC tournament organizers say there are no other teams in my area; we'd sure like to meet some other teams. When you come over from Victoria, what are your plans? Are you coming the day before -- we are right on the way of course. Are you staying over night? There is a small inexpensive motel in Beach Grove that might be suitable if you have not already made other arrangements. I can't speak for the rest of the team, but we might possibly be able to talk about billeting, if you are interested.

Let me know if we can be of any help to you.
-- Nora

Message by: nano2569 11/05/2006 05:56:27 GMT
HI:

We're coming over on Friday. Actually, I had trouble getting the exact times for the tournament and thought the set-up Friday night might include the kids!

We aren't travelling as a team (the kids are all bringing their parents!). Those of us without family in Vancouver will be staying in Richmond. It seemed to have a decent selection of hotels and was fairly close to the tournament.

Our team is doing fine. They've got a good robot design and a fairly good outline for their research presentation.

It's me who feels behind. There's so much reading. Just tonight, I discovered we've been setting the atoms up wrong on the table. Will it change the results? Maybe, maybe not.

I keep wondering what I've missed. It was just this week I discovered that the Vancouver tournament finishes on Saturday not Sunday!

As I said, the team is doing fine and having fun. That's what counts.

--
Christine

Message by: Whizards 11/07/2006 18:12:00 GMT
Hi Christine,

You've been setting up the atoms wrong? Heck, my team hasn't even begun to THINK about the atoms to worry whether or not it's set up wrong. :)

I think they're looking at the atoms as a lost cause.

- Errol

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/07/2006 18:07:36 GMT
Maybe we'll meet some more team reps at the Coaches' Breifing tonight (Nov 7 at 7:00 - 8:30pm). It's at David Thompson (Vancouver), the same high school where the tournament will be.

http://www.fllbc.org/calendar/event.2004-09-24.4860988150

-- Nora

Message by: nano2569 11/15/2006 08:02:10 GMT
I'm in Victoria and couldn't get to the coaches briefing.

Any words of advice from what I missed?

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/16/2006 08:53:09 GMT
The big surprise to me was that there are 40 teams registered! Yikes! Not all came to the meeting, by a long shot.

But, since I've read nearly every thread here I guess there were not any other surprises about the missions. They went over the mission models and discussed how they would be scored. There was some confusion on some things, but nothing that has not already been hashed out here -- and coming to the same conclusion. That was all the meeting was about.

There will be two double tables set up -- one will be active while the other is reset for the next round. They confirmed that tag-team swap-outs would be allowed, that was my main question -- I'm not sure we'll be organized enough to make use of that option, but at least it's an option. They said the Teamwork interview(?) would be "fun". Parents will not be allowed in the Teamwork or Technical interview rooms; only Coaches and teams. Parents allowed and encouraged at the Research Presentation; in fact anyone, even from another team, can see any Research Presentation, as long as there is enough room. There will be practice tables and you have to schedule a 2.5 minute or 5 minute time slot for your team to use them.

A quick show of hands revealed that all (or nearly all) the rookie teams will be using NXT. The more experienced teams are heavily invested in RCX and have not switched in most cases. Not everyone had attempted or accomplished the space elevator at that time.

I had to leave right away afterwards. I suspect the good stuff was discussed after the real meeting, as always. There was a mix of experienced coaches and rookies like us.

We got the draft schedule today by email. Did you get yours? We won't be up against you, it seems.

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/25/2006 01:08:12 GMT
another big surprise is that my team is now 2 teams. i'm on the Rainbow Ninjas team. there still is a Finding Nano team, it's just that we split up. that is because a team drop out, so now mcbride is just filling them in.

Discussion: Team in Quebec ? - Une *quipe au Qu*bec ? By: RobotSAPiens3659 11/10/2006 03:45:11 GMT
Hi,
We are the Robot SAPiens, a rookie team based in Montreal. The FLL doesn't see to be really big in Quebec province! Is there any other teams around here ?

Bonjour,
Nous sommes les Robot SAPiens, une toute nouvelle *quipe bas*e * Montr*al. Le FLL ne semble pas tr*s populaire dans la province de Quebec! Est-ce qu'il y a d'autres *quipes dans notre coin ?

See you, * bient*t,

Natalie
Coach - Robot SAPiens

Message by: Briqueleurs9999 11/04/2006 00:25:14 GMT
Et oui a Sorel-Tracy mais pas une *quipe FLL mais JFLL les tout petits. Ca n'est pas support* par FIRST cette ann*e au Canada aussi nous ne sommes pas officiellement inscrits mais pour nous c'est une premi*re afin de d*couvrir la dynamique et d*marrer pour vrai l'ann*e prochaine. Non FIRST n'est pas tr*s fort au Qu*bec en fait inexistant a ma connaissance.

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/04/2006 19:34:36 GMT
ok, i'm not from Quebec but, hey Natalie and Briqueleurs9999. my french isn't very good so i don't know you guys are talking about, can i ask a question? how come there are these chinese-looking words in your writings?
curious sharon

Message by: Briqueleurs9999 11/05/2006 15:27:29 GMT
Sharon,

You probabily have your Pc characters set for standard ASCII or english only, this cover your usual needs. The chinese sign appearing on your screen are probably the accent aigu and accent grave whith are modifier (change the prononciation)for the "e" letter and less often the "a". Yor Pc setup doen not interpret correctly those and present it as garbage.

Serge

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/10/2006 03:45:11 GMT
hi Serge,
i never knew that. thanks for the tip.

Message by: RobotSAPiens3659 11/09/2006 00:09:46 GMT
Bonjour aux Briqueleurs!

Je suis bien contente de voir que nous ne sommes pas seuls! Souhaitons que l'*v*nement se r*pande plus au Qu*bec... En esp*rant peut *tre vous rencontrer l'an prochain! :-)

Les Robot SAPiens

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:11:14 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:11:14 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Discussion: Space Elevator By: nanobyte1202 11/10/2006 00:00:02 GMT
Does anybody understand how this is supose to work? How does the elevator go up? We have followed the instructions but the last two pages are not working.

Message by: fll-freak 09/22/2006 01:15:57 GMT
If you visit the USA section, there is a large discussion on this topic.
-Skye

Message by: BerkshirePark624 10/02/2006 18:58:12 GMT
The person without the container goes to the bottom of the elevator. Then it hooks under somehow.

Message by: 10/19/2006 03:25:20 GMT
Deleted

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/25/2006 00:41:52 GMT
berkshire, sorry, but i don't understand you. please rephrase.
also, why is there a message under your message saying i deleted something? what did i delete?

Message by: Whizards 10/25/2006 16:07:24 GMT
One thing you have to be sure of is that you made the Space Elevator exactly as specified.

Now you have two sets of red flexible axles attached to the two pulley gears acting as wheels.

They are on each side of the elevator.

When the elevator is standing up, they rest on the ground, and you can push them in. When one is pushed in, a red '2 stud' axle that is attached to it lifts up. The same happens on the other side.

These two '2 stud' axles acts as a locking mechanism, you place the elevator underneath it, so that when you pull the wheels out, the red '2 stud' axles lowers down and keeps the elevator in place.

So, when one team pushes in a wheel, it unlocks one half of the elevator. The other team has to push in the wheel on their sid and it unlocks the other half. The 2nd elevator lift (with the yellow container), which is heavier, will pull the locked in elevator to move upwards.

- Errol

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/26/2006 20:23:31 GMT
thanks errol, but what are 2 stud axles? i think that this axle thing is really important because with no clue what it is, my team has no idea what you were trying to explain.

Message by: fll-freak 10/26/2006 20:28:50 GMT
Axle length is measured in "stud lengths". One stud length is the distance from the center of one "bump" (stud) to the next stud on a LEGO brick. You can therefore use a long LEGO brick/beam as a ruller for axles.

Therefore a 2 long axle is a very short little guy. Still in the macro scale, but fast approaching micro!

-Skye

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/26/2006 21:00:26 GMT
thanks. we experimented on it and it is so cool!

Message by: 11/10/2006 00:00:02 GMT
Deleted

Discussion: Check USA folders for Mission questions By: zap85 10/19/2006 03:28:33 GMT
Hey everyone, I just want everyone to be aware that there are already large discussion areas for every mission, if you check the United States area of the Forum. There are also discussion areas for the Research project and various technical/programming issues over there.

This area for Canada is most useful for making regional connections and asking questions related to local tournaments etc.

Doreen,
Coach, Team ZAP! (in Toronto)

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/19/2006 03:28:33 GMT
thanks Doreen. it was really useful.

Discussion: Release Form By: BrightLights2006 10/20/2006 04:23:23 GMT
There is a "Content, Release, Hold Harmless and Authorization to Reproduce Physical Likeness" form at the FLL Ontario site:

http://www.fllontario.org/pdf/Release_Form_Collection.pdf

but it more or less seems cut and paste fromthe standard US one (references to the state of New Hampshire - the home of FIRST/FLL?)

Is this an acceptable legal document for temas to use at Canadian events?

-Rob Antonishen
Team Bright Lights
St. Catharines, On.

Message by: zap85 10/04/2006 02:22:17 GMT
Hi Rob, that looks like the same release form we had to sign last year for both the Toronto Regional and the Provincial. I remember we had to cross out State and enter Province on it somewhere. You shouldn't need to take it until the day of the tournament so you can check with your tournament director ahead of time.

Doreen
Team ZAP!
Toronto

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/19/2006 03:36:15 GMT
AAAHHHH! i've just read a bit of the release form. so you'll either be video-taped, photographed, or interviewed? i am so dead. i always get nervous when it's picture time, even when it's with my family, and i just stammer when i'm near a judge (actually, i don't know because i've never been anywhere near a judge). oh...i don't want to let my team down! should i just not go to the tournament?

Message by: sempar5621 10/19/2006 05:27:29 GMT
I think you'll be having too much fun to notice that there's pictures/cameras/judges :-) The judges are all friendly people, too, they try their best not to be intimidating.

Message by: Whizards 10/19/2006 16:30:36 GMT
That's why in my team, every week I video tape them. :)

In our practice tournament, I'm going to get 'official' looking people to ask them technical questions so that they can get used to judges and being in the spotlight.

- Errol

Message by: BrightLights2006 10/19/2006 15:45:41 GMT
The idea here is that they may want to use photos/videos in their material, and don't want to hunt down people for permission after the fact.

see this thread MI FLL Volunteer Moderator "Gotta brag" 10/15/06 1:29pm for someone who's daughter ended up in this year's coaches handbook.

-Rob A>
coach - Team Bright Lights

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/20/2006 04:23:23 GMT
wow! that is one proud papa! and the video taping your team is a good idea! maybe my team should do that too! i hope sempar is right about the judges, and that they are friendly and not intimidating.

Message by: 10/20/2006 04:20:55 GMT
Deleted

Discussion: Does Someone Got Tips For us?? By: AC Nano Madness 1133 11/22/2006 06:32:45 GMT
Hello everyone!

Are there any teams have good tips by program the robot and building the robot. If you have a answer or something to say, let a messege behind on the forum.

AC Nano Madness team

Message by: Whizards 10/12/2006 17:06:32 GMT
*laugh*

That's a rather all encompassing question!

It does depend on whether you are using the RCX or the NXT. I would read through in the US/Programming Folder, you will find some tips there.

As well as in the Canada folder, you will find Resources (Tutorials, Links, and Tips).

Other than that, there is a LOT of stuff on NXT and RCX which cannot be covered in one simple post. :)

Message by: ByronBlockHeads4008 10/13/2006 15:33:30 GMT
Wow, the whizards are right, you're covering a lot of territory. What specifically do you need some advice on? There's a whole lot out there.

Which program are you using, NXT or RCX? I know the RCX pretty well as our team has been using the RCX for almost four years now.

Happy to help you at any time if you need it!

Byron Blockheads

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/19/2006 03:46:21 GMT
does "building the robot" mean building the lego thing? because for some reason, my friends and i are building lego structures. some of the instructions were difficult, and we made a big mess, so we decided to make it up, which ended up with a strange looking piece. we spent, like, three hours working on it. in the end, we just took it apart and redid it in 15min! it was bizzarre.
sharon
*ignore spelling errors. too lazy to check.

Message by: sempar5621 10/19/2006 05:31:52 GMT
If you mean these structures then no, that's not the robot itself. Those are parts of the playing field that your robot will have to interact with (and it's important to follow those instructions exactly so that the playing field you build is as close to the one at the competitions as possible).

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/20/2006 04:29:08 GMT
oh...yeah, i was meaning those. so it's very important to follow the instructions? my friends and i were too lazy to redo it when we were done so we just created a different weirder version. i thought we might extra marks for creativity. guess i was wrong. thanks anyway.

Message by: Whizards 10/20/2006 20:27:46 GMT
Hi Sharon,

You have to create the EXACT models for two reasons:

1) You only have enough pieces to fit each model exactly
2) The competition models will be exactly those models. Having models that don't fit in the right spot, or don't work, would be a disservice to your team. :D

One of my kids built the nano cable tester all strange. He subsituted pieces in when he couldn't find them, and in the end, it was the wrong shape, the wrong size, and didn't work at all. I had to rebuild it from scratch for him.

:)

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/25/2006 00:31:39 GMT
wow. i never knew it was that important! thanks.

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 10/28/2006 01:14:11 GMT
Here's a tip.

Make sure you dont become to attached to what your model looks like . dont be afraid to change your robot based on your program. our robot does that alot and is now totally different!

~Jesse

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/31/2006 03:57:25 GMT
oh really? i never knew that. thanks Jesse.
sharon

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 11/04/2006 01:17:58 GMT
Yeah. Never get attached to ANYTHING in this. Always be open to changes

~Jesse

Message by: Block-Robotics-4670 11/22/2006 06:32:45 GMT
Remember it is easier to remove a piece/attachment after it has been used then to replace/add an attachment. Since it is only 2 1/2 min you don't want to waste time building for each mission. Try to group attachment missions together. Plan it out on paper then build and test. That is so hard to do because everyone just wants to build. Good Luck!!!

Discussion: Q&A Page Ignoring Question By: Under Pressure 3108 11/04/2006 01:10:09 GMT
OK well I shouldn't say the are ignoring us per se, but I sent them a question and it's been two weeks and they have emailed me 3 times saying "Q and A page updated" or whatever. they are telling me that they have updated it yet ours is STILL not on their.

Am I doing something wrong?

Message by: fll-freak 10/14/2006 02:32:18 GMT
The email you got was a blast to all teams indicating a change. Not all questions make it into the Q&A. If yours has not, it was not deemed of wide enough interest for the Q&A. I am surprised that you have not gotten a short reply from FIRST with a custom answer.

-Skye

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 10/14/2006 02:41:34 GMT
Not wide enough interest? I feel slightly insulted! You would think they would at least answer it in an email like you said Skye. Thanx anyway!

Cheers,

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 10/28/2006 01:03:00 GMT
Sorry to post again but i have sent this thing 3 times and they are still snubbing me. Anyone know whats going on?

~Jesse

Message by: fll-freak 10/28/2006 01:09:43 GMT
It may be that your email is not getting to them. It may be filtered by some spam filter along the way. It may also be that your filter has deleted their reply on its way to you.

FIRST tries as hard as possible to answer all email. Try to send it again, but this time to add a read receipt so that you know when it was read.

-Skye

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 10/28/2006 01:20:33 GMT
I dont understand. I use Google Mail not Outlook or anything so its slighty different.

Also gmail was telling me it could not contact DNS servers. is that important?

~ A Very Embarrassed Jesse

Message by: fll-freak 10/28/2006 02:01:09 GMT
I am not familiar with Google mail, but many mail programs will allow a user to add a "read receipt" to an email as you compose it. This is like when you send a package registered mail When the person get the package, the carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEx, ...) sends you back an email, telling you that your package arrived. You can do the same thing with email. You send the email, and when the person reads it (opens it) they automagicaly send you back an email telling you.

Poke around with Google mail to see if they allow you to do this. Perhaps a Google mail guru might like to jump in? Please?

Now as far as the DNS error, that might be fairly serious. DNS stands for Domain Name Service. Its this huge database that translates human readable computer addresses like www.firstlegoleague.org into something your computer can use (129.86.124.23). Without DNS, we would all have to remember sequences of 4 digits computer address. If you always get a DNS error when trying to send email to FIRST, than that would explain your problem. If you only only get once in a while, than its just a local glitch. DNS computers can sometimes not be available and your computer may have to ask a few times before it gets the name translation. This is probably way more than you needed.

1) Try to find out if Goggle does mail receipts and if it does, use it.

2) Don't worry about DNS unless the error happens more than just once in a while.

You could also send me the email you want to send to FIRSt and I would forward it to you. My address is Skye@fll-freak.com.

-Skye

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 10/31/2006 04:00:31 GMT
sorry i can't help you. i don't know much about emails, but did you send it to the right person/people? maybe it was supposed to be .com but instead you typed in .ca
clueless sharon

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 11/04/2006 01:10:09 GMT
Well im pretty sure i typed it in right!

Skye,

I'll try emailing it to you. Cos' the dns thing happends every time i send an fll message

~Jesse

Discussion: Sat We Compet Right? By: beaubots 11/25/2006 02:14:19 GMT
Lets talk for Sat

Message by: beaubots 11/11/2006 00:05:18 GMT
Good luck to all teams in Toronto

Message by: Whizards 11/11/2006 01:12:31 GMT
Good luck!

-Errol

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/16/2006 04:26:14 GMT
why am i so nervous, and more importantly, why don't you guys seem nervous? i'm jiggling like a jelly in the inside!

Message by: Whizards 11/16/2006 16:51:03 GMT
That's easy, I'm a coach, it's not up to me to 'perform'. :)

Stressed? Yes, big time, but not nervous.

Message by: Finding Nano 4894 11/25/2006 01:09:51 GMT
wish i wasn't stressed...
lucky!

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/25/2006 02:14:19 GMT
Today at our final practice we had our best run at the table ever! We're ready!

-- Nora

Discussion: Provincial Tournament - Ontario By: Under Pressure 3108 12/12/2006 04:21:12 GMT
We are a rookie team that has qualified for the provincial tournament in Oakville on Dec 9. This has come as a bit of a shock (okay maybe more than a bit). Coming fresh out of the Northern Ontario Regional Tournament (only 8 teams) we were wondering if any vetern teams would like to give us a heads up on what to expect. I have been told that the missions are run in elimination rounds instead of the three guaranteed rounds that regionals had. How does that work? I know that the day will be more hectic than what we have experienced so far but will there be time to talk to other teams?

- Michelina
Coach - Under Pressure
North Bay, Ontario

Message by: Whizards 11/30/2006 16:35:51 GMT
Congratulations!

I'm not a veteran coach, but being a rookie myself, I like to cheer rookies on!

If I remember correctly, you posted about being really stressed, I'm glad all the work paid off! :)

-Errol

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 11/30/2006 17:20:44 GMT
Thanks Errol

The team really pulled things together the last two days before the tournament and I'm pretty proud of them. Robot design and performance were not their strong points so we have something tangible to work on for the next few days. We are (and by "we are" I mean "I am") a bit in awe of the size of the event that we are heading to. Is there some other thread that I have missed to find out how some of the Southern Ontario teams did at their tournaments?

- Michelina
Coach still Under Pressure but not as much

Message by: Whizards 11/30/2006 17:46:29 GMT
Paul Tan (nanopenguins) and Doreen from Team Zap were posting a few things, but I can't remember, because they also sent me emails describing their tournament experiences.

I am SOOO glad I had veteran coaches in my city, they helped me so much. :)

Paul Tan is hopefully bringing his team over this monday to practice on my competition table, trying to get the team to experience as many different competition tables as possible.

He's going to the provincials too, and it will be great to see what a 'provincial' team can do!

There are a few other teams I'm associated with (who haven't posted on this forum) who have also spoke a bit about their tournament experiences. They were rookies too, so when it's all over, I think we're going to get together, relax, speak of the immensity of it all, and rejoice that it's over. *laugh*

It was a fun experience though, don't get me wrong. :)

- Errol

Message by: zap85 11/30/2006 20:53:40 GMT
The website at www.fllontario.org is posting the award winners for all the Ontario events. They are linked off the Qualifying Tournaments page. The Provincial Tournament page lists all the teams which have so far qualified for provincials.

The Photo Gallery has a bunch of photos from provincials last year. The venue will be different this year but it should give you a sense of the size.

Doreen

Message by: zap85 11/30/2006 18:43:20 GMT
Hi Michelina - congratulations! How exciting! Last year we were in a similar situation, qualifying for provincials in our rookie year, and it was such a blast.

The provincials is in a different location this year than last, so I don't know what will be the same or different to what we experienced last year. The biggest shock to us was simply how much bigger and more chaotic the provincial tournament was, with forty teams.

Hopefully they'll send us an email with a schedule before the tournament. Last year, they ran three round-robin matches, and then took each team's highest score out of those three matches. The teams with the top 16 scores moved on to elimination rounds, which were sudden-death - ie, team 1 was paired with team 16, and the winner moved on, the loser was out.

The project and technical interviews happened throughout the round-robin competitions, so we were kept running between table matches and interviews, and it was really important to keep on top of the schedule and to keep track of the kids to make sure they could get to the right place at the right time.

Yes, there was time to visit with other teams but not much because everyone always had the next interview or match to get to. Our team didn't qualify for the eliminations so that certainly gave us more time to watch other matches and cheer for friends, because all the interviews were over by then and we could just hang out.

As a rookie coach, my goal was just to get through the day with my sanity -- I took Tylenol before the day even started, knowing it would be loud and chaotic! -- and without losing any kids or equipment. We survived, and it was lots of fun.

So have fun preparing for the tournament, post here if you have more questions, and we'll look for you on tournament day to say hello.

Doreen,
Coach, Team ZAP!

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 11/30/2006 21:18:40 GMT
Thank you so much for this Doreen. Everyone posting to this forum has been so helpful and I would not have survived this season without all of you sharing your wisdom and experiences.

-Michelina
Coach Under Pressure

Message by: tanrobotics 12/01/2006 15:52:48 GMT
Hi Michelina!

Congratulations on making it to the Provincials! I read some of your posts and I am glad that you stuck to it and made it through!

With 40 teams at the provincials, it will be a lot more hectic and chaotic. The kids are a lot more nervous, so make sure you get there early to calm them down. (I remembered how nervous they get when I saw the rookie members of our team start freaking at the regional tournament -- the vetran members were being calm though).

As Doreen pointed out, there is a playoff elimination round (if you did not experience it at your local regional tournament). All other aspects (Teamwork, Technical, Project) count the same way, and the Champion's award is awarded independent of the playoff elimination (or at least it was last year).

There is enough time between rounds (and at lunch) to try to meet and talk to other teams (well, it depends if you are trying to get the team do last minute fixes on your robot or not).

Take a look at some of the pictures at the fllontario site from last year's tournament. Also, you can look at our pictures at:

http://www.scsrobotics.org

and our videos (hidden from public)

http://www.scsrobotics.org/video

They might give you a better feel for the tournament.

If you get in early the day before, and if you need anything at all (lego parts, directions, tourist sites), send me an email at paul@web2xml.com. I can give you and your team a hand with anything.

Paul Tan.

Message by: nanowood5351 12/04/2006 19:14:39 GMT
Michelina, don't worry your kids will perform. The provincials will be more hectic than with 8 teams from the north challenge. The Nanowoods competed in Oakville as a Rookie team also (just like Errol) and our kids performed behond expectation and had a hoot.

Just keep someone focused on the schedule. With 40 teams you have to be on top of things. St Mildred's is a great school and the organizers of the Provincials are top shelf.

One of the judges you may want to look up is Krista Jones (my wife. She has been judging for the last few years and is from Temisceming Quebec. She would be happy to speak with the kids about their robot and challenge and what to work on for next year.

Note: My understanding is the Presentation portion may run up front and prior to the FLL Challenges. This will keep things running on time and allow teams to focus on the challenges without being time starved thinking about the Challenge.

Best of luck at the Provincials.

Regards,

Murray Buckler

Nanowood 5351 Coach

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 12/04/2006 19:34:10 GMT
Thanks to all of you for great words of encouragement and for helping us to prepare for what the day may be like. I look forward to meeting some of the experienced coaches hearing more of your stories.

-Michelina
Coach Under Pressure

Message by: zap85 12/11/2006 22:38:15 GMT
So Michelina, how do you feel now that the tournament is behind you?

It was great meeting you and I'm sorry I didn't get to see you again at the end of the day. Whenever I glanced at someone in a green t-shirt, though, they seemed to be having a good time so I'm hoping that your team enjoyed the whole experience.

It was a really well-run tournament - kudos to the organizers and congratulations to all the winning teams!

Doreen Hyndman
Coach, Team ZAP!
Judges' Award - Ontario Provincials

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 12/12/2006 04:21:12 GMT
Doreen, it was a great day. The kids were pretty pumped and just being a part of the provincials in our rookie year has been a huge accomplishment. We had many meetings that seemed like we were getting nowhere so I'm thrilled that the kids made it this far and that we all had this experience. Everyone we met from the volunteers and organizers, through to the judges, refs, and other teams were friendly and willing to talk. I have so much information to work with for next year that I don't know where I'm going to put it all.

Congratulations to your team for winning the Judges Award. Hope we get a chance to meet again next year. Thank you again for all the posts you made to this forum that helped get me through. You and all the other experienced coaches that share knowledge on this forum are truly representative of what FLL is all about.

-Michelina
Coach Under Pressure
North Bay, Ontario

Discussion: HELP!!!! NXT WONT TURN ON By: cheeseblocks4367 12/05/2006 04:49:12 GMT
Our nxt was working fine one day and the next day it wouldn't turn on. We tried recharging our batteries and even putting in new ones. Any ideas

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 12/01/2006 11:08:52 GMT
I found with one of our NXT's that the recharagable battery did not seat well when the cover was on. I removed the cover, added a thin strip of cardboard to fill up the emtpy space and replaced the cover. This seems to have solved the problem.

Message by: cheeseblocks4367 12/03/2006 08:03:50 GMT
We've tried inserting both the single pack and double a bateries and all we get is a dull beeping sound.

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 12/04/2006 19:40:19 GMT
That sounds like the "clicking brick" syndrome. Do a Search on this forum for discussions on that. See if that looks like your case.

If that is your problem, there is a Lego support page on that issue, and a new firmware update you can download.
http://mindstorms.lego.com/Support/Updates/

Message by: Brian001 12/05/2006 03:45:14 GMT
I agree that you should likely download the patch from LEGO and apply it, but the actual clicking is just the NXT in firmware update mode. In other words, you will get that clicking any time the reset button (in the deep pinhole below the USB port) is pressed.
Step 1) Download and install patch from LEGO
Step 2) use a LEGO antenna or the traditional bent paperclip to fully depress the reset button for five seconds.
Step 3) Download new firmware to the brick using the NXT-G environment (under the "Tools" menu)

--
Brian Davis

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 12/05/2006 04:49:12 GMT
Brian, thanks for clarifying that.

-- Nora

Discussion: Aiming Templates By: MentalBlocks4952 12/01/2006 18:53:42 GMT
Are we allowed to use a piece of bristol board with preset aiming lines (for each mission) on the table? It would be in home base and used simply as a guide?

Message by: tanrobotics 12/01/2006 18:53:42 GMT
No.

All aiming jigs MUST be made out of lego parts. That's part of the challenge ;)

Paul Tan.

Discussion: How do you get an arm to move up and down and sideways By: cheeseblocks4367 01/19/2007 05:27:39 GMT
Our team is having trubble designing an arm that can move up and down and side to side. Any ideas?

Message by: eagles5849 01/19/2007 05:27:39 GMT
If you use a motor you can make your arm move up and down. If you would like your robot to move side to side you will have to make your robot turn side to side. I do not think it is possible to do both in one task since your motor is only able to move in two directions (forward/backwards)

Discussion: Placement of objects in base. By: cheeseblocks4367 12/04/2006 02:42:50 GMT
When it says the dirt trap the molecule and the arm bone ball are placed in anywhere in the base, does it mean we choose the placement or do they choos it.

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/03/2006 15:44:49 GMT
You choose it. It could even be on top of your robot which is also in Base.

Generally when you come up to the table, the dirt trap will be somewhere in or around Base, and probably the Buckyball and molecules will be in it. That's the easiest place for the ref/table-reset-guy to put them so they don't wander off. You are then free to move them to whereever it is convenient for you - even off the table if you want. Just don't put them in your pocket and run away with them at the end of the round!

- Gary

Message by: cheeseblocks4367 12/03/2006 21:36:23 GMT
Thanks but are we aloud to rearange them in between missions.

Message by: SMART 12/04/2006 02:42:50 GMT
You can manage objects in base as you see fit. The housekeeping rule even allows you to work on things outside of base within reason. Read the rules and the UFAQ - I'm pretty sure this is well answered.

- Peter

Discussion: Whare can I watch a past FLL event By: fllrobots2006 12/31/2006 21:42:16 GMT
Is there any place that I can watch a past fll event on the internet???

Discussion: Robot acting erraticly By: stingrays2516 01/23/2007 00:14:08 GMT
Our robot is acting very strange. The robot does something different every time we run the same program. Has anyone ever had the same problem with the NXT? If so, could we have some tips on how to fix it?

Message by: eagles5849 01/19/2007 05:31:28 GMT
our robot is acting the same way using the RCX model. It seems to act erraticly when it is overloaded. For example, when motors are asked to turn too many rotations when it is being blocked or restricted. Unfortunately we have not come up with a solution. We can only change our program. You may also want to check your batteries, when they get low the robot does not seem to function well.

Message by: cheeseblocks4367 01/22/2007 22:31:23 GMT
we are having the same problems. what exactly do you mean by blocked our restricted.

Message by: eagles5849 01/23/2007 00:14:08 GMT
When the robot is completing a mission sometimes it gets caught on a mission piece. When it is blocked and restricted from moving it will "go crazy" and act erratically.
I know sometimes an icon becomes corrupt in the program and can cause issues. I'm wondering if this is the problem and perhaps by re-entering a program in a new file, this could maybe fix the problem. Our team is going to try this tomorrow.

Discussion: How do teams do it? By: eagles5849 11/15/2007 03:40:34 GMT
This is my second year coaching a robotics team. I was amazed at how many missions other teams accomplished last year. Any secrets on how to complete most of the missions in only a few months? Are teams allowed to use more than 10 students on their team but only have 10 compete?

Message by: Limit Busters 198 01/20/2007 04:08:27 GMT
More expierenced teams tend to have an advatage because they have built a library of subroutines they know works that just call.
But the point of this is to help YOU, so here are a few tips:
- Use as much sensors as possible. The rotation sensor doesn't count;-)
- Use feedback from landmarks (mission models and wall) such as hitting wall until square, etc.
- Create programs that don't require the exact same placement in Base everytime
- I'm amazed ever year at what is done

I believe you are allowed to have more than 10 students, just 10 to compete. That is what we did. If anybody knows differently, please let us know!

Hope this helps,
Limit Busters

Message by: eagles5849 01/20/2007 17:24:37 GMT
I thought some teams may be creating a library. Besides following a line do you have any suggestions of what other programs would be useful to add?
Thanks for your help.

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 01/22/2007 11:04:50 GMT
Although we did not do all the missions, we had good attempts at seven of them. We were a rookie team this year, with nine kids. The oldest kid was 10, and one kid did not really qualify as a nine-year-old. A team of three students got the first mission to work; then everyone paired up again to give us four more fairly decent attempts. (One of these only ever worked once or twice, but they decided it was "done" anyway.) Two other missions were programmed by small teams just days before the tournament, and one of those worked perfectly every time.

I made the kids really study the models, handle them and play with them and see what made them tick. I found at first they seemed really reluctant to touch the mission models once they were complete and set up on the table ... all those years of teachers telling them not to touch stuff.

Then I made them tell me at least 2 or 3 different approaches that might work and to analyse which approach seemed simplest. The pros and cons of each solution. Only then could they go to work with programming or building. They weren't allowed to just run off with only one half-baked idea.

The robot was based on the tribot and we did not have fancy attachments that came on and off. We used a Lego rubber band to hold one part out of the way for some of the missions, but the robot was pretty simple.

Message by: zap85 01/25/2007 17:08:15 GMT
I'd love to know the secret, too. My second-year team developed solutions to all the missions this year, but a few were not reliable and they certainly couldn't run all their outings within the 2-1/2 minutes. It was a definite improvement over last year, however, even though it wasn't where they had expected to be.

From observing other teams, I think the level of experience, and the sheer number of hours the team has to work on the missions, both make a big difference for most teams in accomplishing more of the missions. Lots of brainstorming helps too - the larger the pool of ideas, the better chance of hitting on something that they can work with successfully.

The problem I have is that the kids on my team waste a lot of meeting time with defending their ideas, even when it is pretty clear that something is not working and it is time to move on and try something else. They are emotional rather than logical in their arguments. This year they were most successful when one or two would work on something on their own time (they each had their own robot kits), and bring it back to the group once it was working. If they invested a lot of time and effort and couldn't get very far, though, it was a different story, because they would still defend their idea and the meeting time would slip away from them as they argued.

So I have little advice to offer, but I'd certainly welcome suggestions from experienced coaches on how to keep our meetings more productive!

Doreen, Coach
Team ZAP!

Message by: fll-freak 01/26/2007 00:35:00 GMT
Success is directly correlated with hours invested. A one hour a week team is not going to do nearly as well as a 6 hour a week team.

A third year team will do better than a rookie team.

Good mentors are also important. Not ones that give away the farm, but ones that can ask the questions or teach the skills that allow the kids to shine.

Teaching kids how to throw away work that they are invested in is hard. It helps if they are told in advance that what they are working on is just a rough draft idea that we will learn from. If they have the expectation that their widget "will be the solution (if it works)", then they will fight tooth and nail to keep it. If they go into the idea thinking it will likely be abandoned or at least modified, then they are not as emotional during the review phase.

-Skye

Message by: zap85 01/29/2007 16:09:59 GMT
Thanks, Skye. Reading your comments, I can suddenly see that I've never done a good job setting the expectation that the solutions should continue to evolve.

Doreen

Message by: nano2569 02/24/2007 09:34:27 GMT
We were a first year team that had programs to do at least part of all the missions. The only thing they didn't do was dump the dirt dumper.

One of our kids came up with an attachment ('the plow') that they wanted to use to do many missions. At different points it was used to push the truck, move the pizza molecules, activate the space elevator, push the dirt trap and activate the self-assembly nanotube.

Once the kids discovered the many uses for that one design, they started writing programs that would do all of them.

We did have one kid who had built many RCX cots, but no FLL experience. No one had any NXT experience when our set arrived.

Fairly early on, we took the list of missions and divided them up. 9 missions x 2 attempts = 18 divided by 6 kids = 3 missions for each kid and each mission would be attempted at least two different ways.

They weren't in teams at that point and didn't have the same set of missions as anyone else. I think cutting the number down to 3 made it feel like something they could think about. They weren't programming or building robots, just coming up with an idea of how to do the mission.

To assign the missions, we went around a circle and everyone got to pick a mission so most of them got their first choice (both attempts for a popular mission were gone fairly quickly). Then we went backwards around the circle for the second choice, and forwards for their third. They felt like they had some choice in what they were working on.

The next meeting (2 weeks later), everyone was suppose to come back with ideas on how to solve each of their three missions. That's when 'the plow' attachment showed up and everyone could see how it could be used to do so many things.

My plans went out the window and they jumped right into programming. By the end of that meeting, they had robot that could push the truck on the ramp, move the pizza molecules and move the dirt trap into place.

At that point, they were using a robot that looked a lot like the one from the manual. They had built it on 'kick-off day.'

The early success gave them the confidence to dream up solutions to some of the harder missions.

Message by: mini miners 4923 11/15/2007 03:40:34 GMT
We are a second year team that doesn't understand the concept of subroutines. Can you explain or direct me to a resource that addresses it?

Discussion: Sticky Magnets By: eagles5849 01/20/2007 17:26:54 GMT
Has anybody come up with a creative way to separate the magnets without them reconnecting? The magnets are so strong that even when our robot does separate them, they do not remain separated.

Folder: DEUTSCHLAND 01/30/2007 15:00:02 GMT

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:01:49 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:01:49 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors. The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Discussion: Weltall-Fahrstuhl By: Nano Scientists 11/11/2006 13:01:16 GMT

Message by: sapotage1241 10/05/2006 16:00:19 GMT
Hallo,
wir suchen einen Partner aus der Region Waldorf f*r den Weltall-Fahrstuhl.

Gruss SAP-o-tage

Message by: sapotage1241 10/05/2006 16:00:26 GMT
Hallo,
wir suchen einen Partner aus der Region Waldorf f*r den Weltall-Fahrstuhl.

Gruss
SAP-o-tage

Message by: Herta-Roberta-Girls 11/06/2006 20:50:33 GMT
hallo wir suchen patner aus der region nrw!!! wenn ihr interesse habt meldet euch!!! bis dann!!

Message by: Herta-Roberta-Girls 11/06/2006 20:54:44 GMT
ich m*chte ersten unseren coach herrn kemper gr**en und zweitens mein team herta roberta girls!!! heaggg....dl!!!! eure annika

Message by: Herta-Roberta-Girls 11/06/2006 20:56:25 GMT
ich m*chte erstens unseren coach herrn kemper gr**en und zweitens mein team herta roberta girls!!! heaggg....dl!!!! eure annika

Message by: gyronics1223 11/11/2006 13:01:16 GMT
hi,
bevor ihr ein anderes team f*r den Fahrstuhl habt, m*sst ihr auch sicher sein, dass ihr gegen sie antretet. Nach unserem Wissen besteht die Vorrunde nur aus 3 L*ufen und es sind ja mehr als 3 Teams vor Ort.

Aber trotzdem noch ein gutes Gelingen und viel Gl*ck, dass ihr einen Partner findet.

Gyronics

Discussion: One Member in two teams possibel? By: turborob1174 11/17/2006 19:56:58 GMT
Hallo
One of my child of my group likes to be in an other team, too. He likes to be in both teams. Is this possible?

Message by: fll-freak 09/28/2006 17:48:29 GMT
It may be possible to be on two teams during the build season, but it will be VERY hard at a competition. He may have to be in two places at the same time. I would discourage this idea.

-Skye

Message by: N217 11/17/2006 19:56:58 GMT
Actually, the Coach's Handbook says that kids can only be on one team.

Discussion: RCX Speicherpl*tze By: 1161sap-revelators 11/11/2006 20:56:53 GMT
Gibt es eine M*glichkeit, die Speicherpl*tze 1 und 2 im RCX freizugeben? Wir k*nnen nur 3, 4 und 5 belegen. Es soll aber eine M*glichkeit geben, diese beiden ersten Pl*tze zu l*schen ohne das der RCX seine Grundfunktionen vergi*t.

Message by: Mission Impossible 09/30/2006 20:54:19 GMT
Mit welchem Programm arbeitet ihr denn?
ROBOLAB oder ROBOTICS INVENTION SYSTEM?

MfG Team
Mission Impossible

Message by: 1161sap-revelators 10/01/2006 08:14:34 GMT
Robolab - Wir haben die Antwort aber schon ( durch Zufall ) selbst gefunden. Trotzdem Danke!

Message by: Herta-Roberta-Girls 11/06/2006 20:58:47 GMT
Kann man 2 anschl*sse auf einen stecker stecken??? (also auf speicherplatz 1,2,3,??)

Message by: leibniz-robots 11/09/2006 07:30:13 GMT
nein das entspricht nicht den Regeln und kann auch zu einem Kurzschluss f*hren

Message by: Herta-Roberta-Girls 11/11/2006 20:56:53 GMT
Aso danke f*r den tipp???

Discussion: Atommanipulation By: Herta-Robots 11/10/2006 20:58:51 GMT
Darf man bei der Atommanipulation ein Hilfsbeh*lter benutzen?
In dem man alle Steinchen in den Hilfsbeh*lter schiebt und aus der Base einen anderen Beh*lter holt,der mit roten Steinchen gef*llt ist und ihn auf die Platte stellt?

Message by: Herta-Roberta-Girls 10/11/2006 11:50:16 GMT
kann mann fuschen

Message by: Herta-Roberta-Girls 10/11/2006 11:51:24 GMT
schreib ma zur*ck

Message by: Herta-Nano-Robotics 10/11/2006 12:02:15 GMT
geht ma auf die seite:http://www.hands-on-technology.de/firstlegoleague/fll2006/questions#v

da steht alles f*r regeln

gru* herta-nano-robotics

Message by: Herta-Roberta-Girls 11/10/2006 20:58:51 GMT
aso danke f*r dem tipp!!!!!!!:-)

Discussion: 2 Roboter By: Herta-Robots 10/22/2006 20:44:46 GMT
Darf man auch 2 Roboter starten lassen?
Z.b.der eine bleibt in der Base und der andere macht die Aufgabe.Nach der Aufgabe kann man die Roboter wechseln.

Message by: sapotage1241 10/11/2006 18:07:46 GMT
siehe Regeln
nur 1 RCX

Message by: Microrobots1009 10/22/2006 20:44:46 GMT
W*hrend eines Laufes von 2,5 Minuten d*rft ihr nicht wechseln. Aber ihr k*nnt bei einer neuen Runde einen anderen RCX benutzen.
Die creative-robots aus Herten

Discussion: frage zur bande By: jts 1010 10/19/2006 16:57:34 GMT
ist es erlaubt, die innenseite derbande als f*hrung zu benutzen? Prof.Pi*s Kid*s

Message by: Microrobots1009 10/19/2006 16:57:34 GMT
Klar, k*nnt ihr dran entlangfahren. Aber nicht oben *ber die Kante kommen!
die micro-robots aus Herten

Discussion: Debugging mit Robolab By: UniversalRobots 11/21/2006 18:13:08 GMT
Hallo,
wir bauen in unsere Programme immer T*ne ein, um zu "debuggen", Welche M*glichkeiten habt Ihr gefunden? Kann man den Steb-By-Step Modus sinnvoll nutzen?
Gruss
HoM

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 18:13:08 GMT
me no no

Discussion: Roboter By: Rover Kids 11/11/2006 13:02:04 GMT
Darf der Roboter auf dem Spielfeld Teile von sich abfallen lassen?

Gru* Rover Kids

Message by: Microrobots1009 10/30/2006 18:50:20 GMT
Darf er, nur liegen sie dann auf dem Tisch und werden- meinen wir- nicht von dem Schiedsrichter entfernt. Damit m*sst ihr rechnen.
Creative Robots

Message by: gyronics1223 11/11/2006 12:55:52 GMT
Hi Rover Kids,
wir haben das hier in den Regeln gefunden:

27) SCH*DEN AM ROBOTER
Falls ein Roboter Aufl*sungs- oder Verschleisserscheinungen hat und Teile von ihm auf dem Spielfeld abfallen, kann das Team die verlorenen Teile jeder Zeit per Hand oder mit Hilfe des Schiedsrichters einsammeln.

Damit m*sste euere Frage ja beantwortet sein, ihr d*rft also die abgefallenen Teile wieder einsammeln, das ist kein Problem

Viel Gl*ck
Gyronics

Discussion: Suche Kontakt zu erfahrenem Coach By: SqueezeBots1352 01/27/2007 16:59:08 GMT
Hallo allerseits,

da ich vor genau einem Monat zum ersten mal einen Baukasten in der Hand hatte und zum ersten Mal bei der FLL eine Team coache, w*rde es mich freuen mal mit einem "alten Hasen" zu reden. Arbeite als Software-Supporter und habe soweit alle technischen Grundlagen, aber da ich erst kurz vor Anmeldeschlu* *berredet wurde die Kids zu coachen, wollte ich gerne einfach einen kurzen Erfahrungsbericht zu den Wettbewerben h*ren. 0179 / 2018629 Rufe zur*ck!

Dankesch*n
Markus

Weitere Frage:
Kann ich mit dem Beh*lter f*r die Aufgabe "Schmutzresistenter Stoff" bereits aus der Base heraus starten, oder mu* ich echt erst aus der Base raus und dann zur*ck und den Beh*lter holen!? Finde die Regeln da nicht ganz eindeutig...

Message by: jts 1010 11/01/2006 16:49:44 GMT
Hej Markus, die Kiste wird direkt aus der Base heraus transportiert. Prof. Pi`s Kid`s 1010

Message by: SqueezeBots1352 11/02/2006 22:55:48 GMT
Alles klar! Dankesch*n! :)

Message by: HoldrumHawks542 12/04/2006 23:33:54 GMT
I think that all teams should coraperate like we did. We acted as a team and looked what happened. We are now in the Mont Olive tournement. Team work is a very important part to winning if you are on a team. So cooroporate and be a team

Message by: Herta-Roberta-Girls 01/27/2007 16:59:08 GMT
Hallo!!! wollte mal wissen auf welchen pl*tzen ihr so seid???? schreibt mal!!! danke herta robertas

Discussion: Punkte!? By: RoboFightaZ 11/05/2006 23:38:10 GMT
Hi Leute,

ich w*rde ganz gerne mal wissen auf wie viel Punkte ihr in den 150 sek. so kommen w*rdet, als Orientierung?

DoNy

Discussion: Schlaue Medizin By: Nanonauten 11/08/2006 20:11:20 GMT
Hallo zusammen!

Wir haben eine Fage zur Aufgabe Schaleue Medizin.
Darf man die Sonde innerhalb der Base in einer Vorrichtung des Roboters plazieren oder muss der Roboter die Medizin selbst vom Boden aufnehmen?

Gr**e
Die Nanonauten

Message by: Microrobots1009 11/08/2006 20:11:20 GMT
Man darf im Roboter selbst platzieren, allerdings nur in der Base.
die Robofreaks aus Herten

Folder: Feedback 09/13/2006 02:39:58 GMT

Folder: FIRST Feedback 12/19/2006 18:09:35 GMT

Discussion: Awards By: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 10/09/2006 19:26:08 GMT
This year's awards list is greatly truncated from previous years, and I'm wondering what the rationale is.

Under robot design, the only award I see is, well, robot design. Whatever happened to Innovative Design, Robust/Consistent Design and Programming (admittedly separating innovative and robust programming was a bit much)?

I was also sad to see the Universal Design Award disappear. In 2004, we recruited research judges from the local disabilities agency, and they have enthusiastically come back to volunteer each year since, even though the theme isn't No Limits any more. It was nice for them to know that No Limits had a lasting legacy, and now it's gone.

Of course, I could always reinstate these awards locally, but the students won't necessarily be preparing for them (Universal Design, in particular, requires somewhat targeted thinking). Also, for precedence, it would be good if the awards that we give are consistent with the ones awarded at other FLL tournaments.

Finally, fewer awards means recognition for fewer students (though some would argue that each award means more). Last year as a judge at State, I came across some excellent teams that I felt were worthy of recognition, but I could only give my award to one of 88. Only 14 teams of 88 received awards (16 awards were given, but 2 teams received 2), whereas the previous year, 27 awards were given to 69 teams. This year, it sounds like even that number will decrease.

If trophy cost is an issue, how about plaques for the optional and/or "subcategory" awards like Creative Presentation & Research Quality?

Yolande

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/06/2006 18:10:25 GMT
Here's the list of awards from the MichiganFLL site: http://eng-sci.udmercy.edu/precol/fll/awards06.html
There are sub-categories within the major sections, with a footnote that smaller competitions may choose not to have all the awards. We have a couple sites with capacity of only 16 or 20, and one at the Detroit Science Center that is somewhat of an expo with only 8 teams.

Universal Design is listed as TBD.

As I recall, last year Robust Design became Consistency. One team I know wondered just what they got the award for, as they were consistently mediocre. (OK, they said a stronger word than mediocre, but you know how kids are.)

- Gary

Message by: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 10/09/2006 19:26:08 GMT
One criterion for robot consistency which makes sense to me is choosing the "best worst" score. Basically, compare every team's LOWEST score, and see which team ends up at the top of the heap. That way, teams with 3 zeroes aren't awarded for being the "most consistent".

I also received an interesting communication this weekend regarding the Universal Design Award (see below). It sounds like the award is alive, even though FIRST hasn't specifically listed it on the official website under "awards".

Yolande
---------------------
The First Lego League and The Freedom Machines Project have partnered
for the past two years to present the Universal Design Award (UDA) at
the World Festival. This year, a conscientious effort is being made
to inform the FLL Partners and Tournament Organizers about the
materials that are available to increase the knowledge and
understanding about how Universal Design (UD) can be integrated into
the FLL challenge projects. You will find a video history and other
instructional aids, including winners of the UDA at the past two
World Festivals, some animation clips and links to UD websites on
this web page >>> www.freedommachines.com/FLL/FLLUD.htm <<<. If you
would like to receive a FREE DVD containing all the video content
posted on the web page indicated above, please reply to this email
and provide a mailing address. On the FLL awards page, you will find
a reference to the optional "Local Awards". It is hoped these
instructional aids will make it possible for the local tournament
organizers to consider presenting a Universal Design Award. Feel
free to contact me if you have any questions and/or comments. Below
is a list of the segments included on the web page indicated above
and on the free DVD:

The web page >>> www.freedommachines.com/FLL/FLLUD.htm <<< contains:
*** Dean Kamen talks about his universal design philosophies.
*** Examples of universal design.
*** 2005 FLL World Festival UD Winners
*** 2006 Animation Promo
*** 2006 Animation UDA Presentation
*** 2006 FLL World Festival UD Winners
*** 7 Principles of UD
*** 3 examples of UD Applied to Nanotechnology Challenge Projects.
*** UD Websites

Thanks and regards,
Richard Cox
President
The Freedom Machines Project
Richard Cox Productions

Discussion: Walk-away items By: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 12/04/2006 08:06:52 GMT
Every year, tournaments are held where volunteers are needed to bring their field set-ups (all unofficial tournaments rely on volunteer teams to lend their fields for practice and competition tables). Every year, some items inadvertantly "walk away" from these tables, and are never found.

This year was the worst. Of the 4 field set-ups, 2 buckyballs, 4 ATP molecules, and 2 pizza molecules disappeared. (We also lost several dirt pieces and white atoms from the "tipsy table", but these are easy to replace). We had the teams take inventory before packing up, but the missing items never showed up. The teams that lost these items need them to practice for later tournaments, and I'm afraid that in future years, no one will want to bring their field set-ups. If that happens, our local tournament will cease to exist.

Small items that are not dual-locked to the mat are extremely vunerable to being carried off inadvertently, especially from the practice tables. Hard-to-find specialty items that walk away are especially disastrous.

I have 2 suggestions:

1. For future challenges, try to limit the number of "mobile" pieces. Those mobile pieces you do use should be commonly used and easy to replace (like the red and white atoms).

2. Create a "mobile piece replacement pack", which can be ordered separately from Lego or Pitsco. Any piece which is not anchored by dual-lock would be included in this set, and teams and directors of smaller tournaments could order these so that lost field elements could be replaced. Alternatively, include extras of easily lost, hard-to-find pieces (many teams could have used an extra bucky ball).

Yolande

Message by: LA FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/26/2006 07:26:29 GMT
In Louisiana, a tournament of 30 teams, We got some extra stuff sent from HQ for the tournament, apparently without request, just as you suggested. I figured it was the same for all, but maybe not. If you let me know what you need and where to send it, I'll see what we have and send it to you. contact me at scotmar@bellsouth.net

Message by: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 11/27/2006 17:12:25 GMT
Thanks! Will be in touch.

Yolande

Message by: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 12/04/2006 08:06:52 GMT
All's well that ends well, I guess. After the teams unpacked at home, a few items were found and made their way back to their rightful owners, and the remainder were graciously supplied from the surplus of Rus's Technobots and Scot of LA.

The one downside to all of this is that it took more than 2 weeks to get everything returned, and some of the teams only have 3 weeks between tournaments, so valuable time was lost. It would be better if early tournaments have extra pieces on tournament day so that teams who volunteer to bring kits can go home with replacements on the same day.

Yolande

Discussion: Rule #20 Needs Revised By: bluecheesyflamingos 12/19/2006 18:09:35 GMT
I am post this on here as I hope Scott will see it. There are coaches and refs alike on forums who would like so see rule #20 revised for clarity. Please read this thread:

http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?230@@.ee9b041

Thanks, Carla :)
Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Folder: Forum Feedback 02/11/2007 16:33:53 GMT

Discussion: Forum Password By: tangerinesours37 11/25/2006 05:40:27 GMT
Okay, I've looked and looked (and probably overlooked) for the answer to this question: How do I change our team's forum password?

Thanks in advance.

Ray

Message by: fll-freak 10/11/2006 12:45:04 GMT
This crazy software will not allow you to change your password! You can change your name but not your password. Go figure.

-Skye

Message by: redrobots2924 10/11/2006 16:40:45 GMT
That's very interesting. So if a team member (or members) starts to abuse their use of the forum you have no means of stopping them then?

Phil

Message by: fll-freak 10/11/2006 17:00:02 GMT
Correct. Although you could change the log in name and not tell them. I must say that as a coach I never let the kids have access to the Forum in the first place. Too much stuff gets discussed that would "give away the farm". Plus the fact that if more than one person uses the account the ability to track what messages you have not read is lost.

-Skye

Message by: tangerinesours37 10/12/2006 01:15:04 GMT
Thanks for the information. Maybe they'll change that for next year.

Message by: TechnoBots 11/25/2006 05:40:00 GMT
It's my opinion that the team members (kids) should not be using the forum. Unrestrained use turns it into a chat room. You'll find yourself sorting through hundreds of trivial postings to find the useful info you're looking for. Reserve access for coaches and mentors only, please!
Rus
TechnoBots, 529

Discussion: email subscriptions By: NanoNavigators_2114 10/19/2006 16:23:37 GMT
Does anyone have the email subscriptions working? In the options you can choose

Email - Get an email message every time a new message is posted.

I have this chosen but I get no emails.....anyone have this working or is this a dead feature?

Thanks,

Jeff

Message by: fll-freak 10/12/2006 15:23:50 GMT
I have used this in the past, but the flood of emails forced me to turn it off. I have not had it on this year. Does the system have your proper email address?

-Skye

Message by: NanoAttack4594 10/12/2006 15:51:05 GMT
I have it working, but I agree, the volume of e-mails is astounding!

Nanoattack4594

Message by: Whizards 10/12/2006 17:07:16 GMT
I did have it working too. Have you checked your junkmail folder?

Message by: WHSrobotics628 10/12/2006 22:58:31 GMT
Jeff,

The e-mail subscription feature works just fine. That's how I knew you posted. I'm getting a few per day, the most interesting "auf Deutsch". They make me want to brush up on my German!

Schmoebot

Message by: Under Pressure 3108 10/14/2006 02:51:38 GMT
ours works. quite possibly the may have the wrong address. did you type it wrong?

Message by: NanoNavigators_2114 10/19/2006 16:23:37 GMT
Skye - My email address is correct so I am guessing comcast is blocking the emails. Can someone post one of the emails they recieve so I can get the sender email address to ask comcast to unblock it.

Thanks!

Jeff

Discussion: Message Centre By: Mindstorm Masters 11/03/2006 17:03:57 GMT
When I click on Message Centre I get a list of all the new messages posted. I'm new here, so they are all new to me. Cool, except it also includes all the messages in the Archive section, going back to 2001.

Any way to get out of that? or do I have to click on all the old messages to show that I've "read" them? Or just not use the Message Centre at all, I guess.

Thanks if you can help.
-- Nora

Message by: fll-freak 11/02/2006 20:53:10 GMT
You must have turned on checking of messages by using the "Change subscripts" button at the top level. This would include the archive.

The simple solution is simply to click on the Preferences button, go to the bottom of the page, click on the "Mark all as old" and then hit the update button.

You will still be subscribed to the archive, but that will not change in the future.

-Skye

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/03/2006 16:54:13 GMT
Thanks Skye. My co-coach says that is exactly what she did -- changed subscripts.

We really appreciate all the help you lavish on this site! Thank you so much. Are you actually running a team as well? Amazing!

Message by: fll-freak 11/03/2006 16:59:32 GMT
Your thanks are welcome. I am not an active coach. My original team has aged out. My kids are either in college or on their way soon.

But although I gave up active coaching, I have not given up my mentoring and volunteering. The program is just too important to stop helping with.

Although, I have been giving though to going back to the elementary school and picking up another bunch of kids. My wife has even given her OK!

-Skye

Discussion: Forum availability after World Festival By: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 02/11/2007 16:33:53 GMT
I would like to request that the forum be kept open over the summer, rather than shutting down after April's World Festival. I realize that FLL must do "housecleaning" of the forum over the summer, but there are many of us who plan to teach summer classes, and having the forum archives available in read-only format (no new posting), would at least give us access to the wealth of resources that are already there. Much good info on NXT can be found here, which is not available elsewhere, and to have this resource shut down when we need it most seems a shame.

Last year after the season's end, I continued to use the forum 2-3 times/week, searching for technical info without posting until the last day the forum was open, and I'm anticipating even heavier use this year.

Yolande

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 12/19/2006 20:20:09 GMT
I also would like to make use of the forum during the "off" season. There are so many technical issues that I was just not able to keep up with, but I would like to investigate further, or have the kids do some controlled experiments based on some of the threads.

Please keep it open!

Thanks.

-- Nora

Message by: SMART 12/19/2006 21:31:23 GMT
Agree - if there is a way to keep it open even read only that would be helpful.

- Peter

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 02/11/2007 16:33:53 GMT
Some of you may want to look at ChiefDelphi.com which is the premier forum for FRC. There is an FLL section which currently is not populated that much.

Caveats - It is a bulletin-board system so it might be blocked by some school systems. Registration is individual, not team, so students can register themselves (with all the cautions that can come from that).

Benefits - There are hundreds of posts each day on a variety of subjects. When you are logged in, you can search for what you want to read. It is up year-round.

Folder: LEGO Feedback 04/20/2007 20:17:57 GMT

Discussion: Parts of the Month Club By: fll-freak 04/20/2007 20:17:57 GMT
Dear LEGO,

I understand why you do not sell pieces individualy. You have thousands of parts in your catalog and the logistics would be mind boggling. There is also the Bricklink avenue if you need a few strange parts to finish some creation.

But I think you could increase your sales and my LEGO collection if you provided more variety in your bulk brick sales via your catalog. Month after month the same basic parts are available. 2*4, 2*2, 1*2, in various colors, wheels, and assorted roof tiles. Its often the case that I do not even look at that part of the catalog because I know what will be there.

How about putting some excitement back into my dull life? Every month introduce a new bag of assorted LEGO parts. Make them collections of bricks, Technic parts, decorative parts, and specialty items. Perhaps 50 items of 5 to 10 different parts.

I would thing this would increase your sales and perhaps even reverse the sagging interest in building toys. Now parents would have the ability to make smaller purchases between birthdays without breaking the bank. Kids might be able to buy them with allowance. You may also increase creativity from kids that just build the model as is and them place it on the shelf.

You might wonder what to do with the bags that do not sell that month? You could either continue to make them available till the supply runs out, or you could mix up the old bags, and sell them as 'grab bags' for a slightly reduced price.

-Skye

Message by: RoboVipers735 10/24/2006 00:43:46 GMT
I second that emotion...way to go Skye..let us know what there response is...

Thanks RoboVipers Melbourne Florida

Message by: redrobots2924 10/24/2006 01:10:32 GMT
What if we all send in a letter or e-mail like this to Lego. Would that make more of an impact or no? Thank Skye for getting the ball rolling.

Phil
Coach - Red Robots

Message by: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 11/03/2006 18:58:47 GMT
Yep, what they all said. Lego Technic pieces are especially hard to come by -- would love to see more of those, either stray pieces or boxed sets. There used to be great Technic models (like the rubber band racer) under $20 whose parts could be cannibalized into other mechanical devices. I haven't seen any replacement sets for those in teh last 5 years, only a zillion permutations of Star Wars models.

Yolande

Message by: 11/03/2006 19:00:58 GMT
Deleted

Message by: nanocats4394 11/16/2006 22:43:50 GMT
You have a good idea. This would also help thr LEGO company in sales. You could, if haven't already, tell the company. This could change buying legos. Great job!!

--Nano Cats Rep.

Message by: TechnoBots 11/25/2006 06:14:22 GMT
I gave up trying to buy from both Lego shop-on-line and customer service early in the game after trying to get replacement parts for my team's 4 Mindstorms sets. Shop-on-line does not have what we need, and if you can't provide the customer service people a part number (where do you find THAT?) or the EXACT Lego name of a part, they seem to be lost and unable to help. I even e-mailed photos of the parts I needed and THEY couldn't identify them! I no longer consider them a source and never even think of them anymore. It does seem that Mindstorms users are "step-children" in the Lego parts market.

Pitsco has an on-line catalog and makes a few parts available. The print catalog seems to have more than the on-line catalog, but not really a full selection. Pitsco prices are high and shipping/handling charges drive costs to an almost prohibitive level. I paid $7.50 s/h for a rotation sensor that cost 67-cents to mail. (Never again!)

I browse eBay frequently and have bought RCX's, motors, and wheels on occasion. Also,I use www.Bricklink.com frequently -- 30 times so far this year. Bricklink is an on-line network of literally Thousands of Lego/Technic/Mindstorms users-vendors from all over the Lego World. They sell new & used individual parts of all type & color. It takes some time to learn your way around the site, but it's worth the investment.

Don't be shy of European vendors on Ebay or Bricklink, especially from the UK. Europeans are a lot closer to Billund, and a lot more in to Legos than we are, so have a huge variety of parts to offer. Shipping times are suprisingly short -- only 6 days from England to my CA address by air-letter! I have bought from vendors in Canada, England, Germany, Holland and France with good results.

I personally would like to see Lego sell the Technic lift arms (also called "beams" by some)in packs of six or more, classified by length and color; rather like they do the gears, pins, and plates.

Any one at LEGO reading this??

Rus
FLL coach of the Champion's Award winning TechnoBots

Message by: LawnGnomes2312 04/20/2007 20:17:57 GMT
Skye,

You have a good idea. If you notice on the LEGO website, they now have a pick-a-brick section of the store where you are able to pick the parts (limited to what they have there) that you might want. Technic is always a challenge. Also, if you utilize the LEGO Ambassadors to get the information to LEGO as well as sending the letter directly to them, you might get more notice. If you don't know where to find them, check with your local LUG (LEGO users group). I know several Ambassadors here in the Seattle area.

Also there are local MINDSTORMS fans who have some of the same complaints. You might want to pass on the information to them as well. I will tell those here (one of whom helped to develop the NXT) and see what LEGO will do.

Heidi

Folder: FRANCE 01/30/2007 15:02:42 GMT

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:04:09 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:04:09 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Folder: ISRAEL 01/30/2007 15:11:44 GMT

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 18:25:01 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 18:25:01 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Message by: IAFLLModerator 01/30/2007 18:25:01 GMT
Congratulations to you! One of our tournament planning team members did a study abroad at TU Delft -- I will let him know about your successful day there!

Enjoy -

Camille
Iowa (USA) FLL

Folder: JAPAN 01/30/2007 15:13:09 GMT

Folder: NXT HELP 10/15/2006 01:19:25 GMT
add discussions to this folder if you have any questions about the new NXT robot!

Discussion: question By: lego125 10/15/2006 01:19:25 GMT
As you all know, the NXT is new and not too much is known about it. The old robot was around for years and you could find research about it anywhere. Does anyone know some resources we could use to help us come up with a design or at least to get a better understanding of the new Robot?

Sincerely,
The Scott Lego team

Message by: botzealots1105 10/15/2006 01:19:25 GMT
go to the United States forum page. Similar questions have been asked there

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:13:49 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:13:49 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Folder: KOREA 02/21/2007 15:57:01 GMT

Folder: ******** 02/21/2007 15:57:01 GMT
**** ****** ********** ****** ******** ****** ********.
****** **** ****** ******.

Folder: Make International Contacts 04/06/2007 06:45:54 GMT

Folder: FLL Team Websites 01/11/2007 12:42:09 GMT
Hi First Lego League enthusiasts,

We are the RISbotics from Eindhoven in the Netherlands. We are competing in the FLL for the third year in a row.

We just have our website on the net and we like to ask you to make a link available on your website. (If you give us your websitedetails we can make a link to yours!)

Lots of luck to you in the competitions coming, we are competing in the so called BeNeLux finals, January 27th 2007 in Delft, Netherlands. (BeNeLux = Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg, so it is a 3 country final). We hope to advance to the Open European in Norway or to the World festival in Atlanta.

That*s all for now, hope to hear something from you soon!

www.risbotics.nl

Folder: NanoQuest Scoring Program 10/08/2006 04:54:36 GMT
Hi fellow coaches,

I developed a small program intended for coaches, to help the teams understand the NanoQuest mission and the point structure. And ... it is as fun way to do the practice runs!

The program will install with two types of shortcuts: one for use with the team, and an advanced
mode, which could be used for smaller tournaments.

With the program, clicking on the mission logos will cycle through the possible scoring. It has a 2:30 timer, with alarm.
On the top right, the help button will explain more options.
The FLL logo on the left will bring you to the FLL web site (with your browse).

For Mac users: sorry, it runs on Windows platforms only. (.Net to be precise)

If you want to have a quick peek, there is a screenshot.

Have fun using this!

Pieter
Coach NanoBots 425
San Jose, CA

Discussion: Where is it? By: Limit Busters 198 10/08/2006 01:03:39 GMT
Where is this program? It sounds VERY neat, and may prove useful to us. How long did it take to do this?

Limit Busters 198

Discussion: Where is it? By: Limit Busters 198 10/08/2006 04:54:36 GMT
Where is this program? It sounds VERY neat, and may prove useful to us. How long did it take to do this?

Limit Busters 198

Message by: redrobots2924 10/08/2006 04:54:36 GMT
You can find the thread which contains this program here

Discussion: Help a team in need By: LawnGnomes2312 03/26/2007 05:41:43 GMT
Hello,

We are the Gothic Lawn Gnomes from Washington, USA. We have learned about a team that was started in war-torn Afghanisan through the vision of a passionate man who moved from the Phillipines to Kabul to help with the rebuilding of Afghanistan. This team has no means of getting to World Fest, but would really like to attend. Our team has adopted them and we would like to see if others would like to join with us to help the Afghan Robotics Team (ART) get to Atlanta in April.
Anyone else want to help?

Here*s the wish list for ART:

Be able to come and participate at the FLL World Festival this coming April. We need funding for 8 persons (4 Afghans and 4 Filipinos) who are part of the team.

Used Laptop PC (I*m currently using our office laptop to coach the team)

NXT Kits and LEGO Mindstorms RCX Kits

Coaching materials ex. Books about LEGO Robotics, DVDs etc.

Thank you

Heidi Lovett

Coach, Gothic Lawn Gnomes

Message by: tinytech2483 01/30/2007 04:53:40 GMT
Just one question...
If they need basically everything, how did they qualify for the World Festival?

-Tiny Tech

Message by: LawnGnomes2312 01/31/2007 07:34:25 GMT
Thank you for reminding me to ask them about the invitation! I forgot to do that. We are working on that part too. Either way, they are starting FLL in Afghanistan and still will need all that stuff and our encouragement!

Heidi

Message by: OikosRoboticsTeam4469 03/12/2007 06:32:04 GMT
Hello Friends,

I'm the coach of the team from Afghanistan. We are really not qualified to join the WorldFest since there was no tournament that was held here. We were encouraged by the coach of the GothicLawnGnome Team to attend the WorldFest and the organizers graciously granted our request.

I have started a team last 2005 in the southern part of the country and started a new one when we moved to the capital. My goal in attending the World best is to be able to learn more about how to start this program with the schools here and conduct tournaments. Most importantly, I would like to encourage the Afghan kids to adapt the FLL Core Values which I believe will make a positive impact in their communities and to the whole country.

I bought the RCX kit, challenge kit and registered the team for the Nano Challenge. I asked for some help for our team since I have limited resources here and am working for a small Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) here.

I hope that this answers your inquiries about us. Please let me know if you have other questions.

Blessings to you,

David G. Delos Santos

Message by: 03/23/2007 15:51:22 GMT
Deleted

Message by: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 03/26/2007 05:41:43 GMT
I wish I had seen these posts sooner. How close are you to your goal (of attending the World Festival)? What needs still remain?

Yolande

Discussion: Did anyone apply for the lottery places in Norway? By: The Next Generation 03/24/2007 17:12:05 GMT
Hi,

We were just wondering if anyone had applied for the four places in Norway which were open to any team?

If you did what did you do for your application? We did a short video clip and a document with photos on...

Message by: Risbotics11 02/10/2007 20:01:52 GMT
Hi TNG-team,

hope to meet you in Norway! We will be there. We preferred going to Bodo over Atlanta. (we could choose as we are the Benelux champions).
One question, why are you acting so secretly? FLL is actually also about sharing information and experiences. We the RISbotics are open transparant and like to share everything,
check our website: www.risbotics.nl

Do you know wich teams from the uk are coming to Bodo??, does your team have a website or knows other team websites that we can link to ours?

well that's all for now, bye
RISbotics from Eindhoven, the Netherlands

Message by: The Next Generation 02/12/2007 18:01:20 GMT
Acting secretly?

No sorry we dont know what teams have chosen to go to Bodo, but we know 3 out of these teams are sadly we came 6th we needed to come 5th for an international place...
The C.R.A.C.K. Team
Technobotts
UP 'n' ATOM
Widcombe Wrobotiers
Nano Doctors

The only website I know is www.nanomania.org but they havent qualified for an international place...We would have a website but none of us have that much technical information at the moment.

Message by: Risbotics11 02/16/2007 10:30:52 GMT
News from FLLOEC 2007, Thursday February 15, 2007 .
Press release!

22 teams applied for the four lucky places in FLLOEC 2007.
Around 200 youths wanted to travel to Bod*. The jury had one inspiring discussion Thursday February 15. It was not easy to choose four teams from all the high quality and creative applications. The decision is now made, and we welcome these four teams to Bod*:

* Robojordan team from Amman, Jordan
* Hudson*s Robotics team from Dhahran, Saudi Arabia
* The Next Generation team from Hexham, UK
* Super Hyper Quantum Kangaroos from Oregon State, USA

in this press release on the fll oec site I read that you The Next Generation team is one of the lucky teams!

Congrats,

Risbotics

Lots of success and we will meet you all in Norway.

www.risbotics.nl

Message by: The Next Generation 02/25/2007 10:51:09 GMT
Thanks!! We are over the moon and can't wait to meet you and all the other teams competing.

Message by: Limit Busters 198 03/24/2007 17:12:05 GMT
We applied for the lottery places, and fortunately, we were successful. However, our administrators insisted the time from now until competetion was not enough to organaize it and raise the money(we are from the US,) so we were forced to decline the oppurtunity. But we will be attending the World Festival in Atlanta. See all of you there.

Limit Busters

Discussion: World Fest Teams By: Spooner Tech Team 04/06/2007 06:45:54 GMT
Our team would like to talk to the other teams going to World Fest in April of 2007. We are The Spooner Tech Team from Spooner, Wisconsin, USA. Our e-mail is: spooner_techteam@hotmail.com

Message by: coleclippers670 03/14/2007 20:45:41 GMT
Hi! We are the Cole Clippers from Norwell, Massachusetts. Our team is comprised of 2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th graders and we are thrilled to have the opportunity to compete in Atlanta and to meet the other teams! We would be happy to chat with you. We don't have our own website or email address, but you can reach us via the coach at genebellana@verizon.net We look forward to hearing from you!

Message by: Limit Busters 198 03/24/2007 17:13:17 GMT
We are the Limit Busters from Greenville, SC. We will also be attending the World Festival in Atlanta. Hope to see you there.

Limit Busters

Message by: Spooner Tech Team 03/25/2007 08:37:32 GMT
Congradulations! For making state and moving onto World. We have meetings on Monday & Friday after school and would like to e-mail you and talk! We just got home from a big fund raiser to fund our team to World, how are you doing?
Our e-mail is: spooner_techteam@hotmail.com
Hope to hear from you, we can e-mail a picture of our team so you can recognize us at world and maybe you can send a picture of your team so we can find you at world. Can't wait to hear from you! The Spooner Tech Team

Message by: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 03/26/2007 01:54:05 GMT
We will be in Atlanta at the FVC Championships (our team of high school students volunteers at the local FLL tournament). We are FVC team #3617, Metal Gear. I'm not sure how far apart the FLL & FVC pits are, but feel free to stop by & say "howdy". We're hoping to make our rounds through the FLL pits if we can.

Yolande

Message by: Spooner Tech Team 03/26/2007 02:40:22 GMT
Boy do we want to meet you! This is our team's last year with FLL and we are going onto Vex. At the moment we are building and figuring out the Vex robot. If you have time, could you e-mail us back. Where are you from? Do you have pictures? Can't wait to here from you! Spooner Tech Team spooner_techteam@hotmail.com

Message by: LawnGnomes2312 03/26/2007 08:41:49 GMT
Congratulations to you all! Our team is the Gothic Lawn Gnomes (though there is nothing Gothic about us), and we will be in Atlanta as well. We are representing WA state and are a rookie team. The kids are between age 10 and 15 (birthdays change things...). Everyone is really excited, and a bit overwhelmed by the whole experience.

I am eager to meet you all in just a few weeks.

Heidi

Message by: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 04/06/2007 06:45:54 GMT
Here is a link to a pit map with all the team number assignments. We'll be looking for you.
http://155.212.10.234/uploadedFiles/...07_pit_map.pdf

Yolande

Folder: MEXICO 01/30/2007 15:15:53 GMT

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:16:40 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:16:40 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Discussion: Informaci*n general sobre FLL en M*xico By: descubre y crea, AC Explora 10/01/2006 23:34:30 GMT
Estimado Equipos FLL en M*xico:

Les recordamos las fechas de los torneos en M*xico:
Torneo Regional Estado de M*xico 18 de noviembre 2006 ITESM Campus Edo M*xico
Operadores Regionales - Colegio Chrsita Corrigan - Dr. Jos* Luis Mu*oz
Torneo Regional Edo de NUevo Le*n 11 de noviembre 2006 ITESM Campus Monterrey
Operadores Regionales - Liceo de Monterrey (Varones) - Lic. Ruperto Villarreal

Torneo Nacional FLL s*bado 25 de noviembre 2006 en Papalote Museo del Ni*o en la Ciudad de M*xico.

saludos,

B*rbara G*mez de Navarro
Directora
Explora descubre y crea, AC

Discussion: Bienvenidos al Foro de discusi*n FLL M*xico By: Bernardo EDC-M*xico 11/16/2006 01:47:29 GMT
Este espacio esta dirigido a todos aquellos que tengan dudas respecto al torneo FLL M*xico, Espero que lo usen adecuadamente y logren sacarle el m*ximo provecho. Todos estan invitados a participar y a colaborar con las preguntas y discusiones.
Saludos!

Bernardo Estrella
Coordinador T*cnico
edcM*xico

Message by: NANOFORGER6366 11/11/2006 19:58:21 GMT
Que tal Bernardo, tenemos una duda... una vez iniciada la corrida el robot puede regresar a la base para algun cambio de accesorio y continuar con las misiones?

Saludos!

Message by: 3c.01 11/16/2006 01:47:29 GMT
Si si puede. Observacion... Si el robot es tocado por los ni*os antes de que llegue a la base, se les quita una molecula de mugre (las azules).
Gabriel Munoz

Discussion: REGRESA EL ROBOT A LA BASE By: NANOFORGER6366 11/16/2006 01:40:17 GMT
HOLA

ES NUESTRO PRIMER A*O EN ESTE CONCURSO, ESTAMOS UN POCO CONFUNDIDOS SOBRE SI EL ROBOT PUEDE REGRESAR A LA BASE PARA HACER ALGUN CAMBIO DE PIEZAS Y CONTINUAR CON LA CORRIDA

SI ALGUIEN LOS SABE Y NOS PUEDE AYUDAR....

HELP HELP HELP

Message by: clubhousepalaciopostal6390 11/12/2006 00:05:35 GMT
HOLA NANOFORGERS:

POR FAVOR REVISEN LAS REGLAS. EFECTIVAMENTE SE PERMITE CAMBIO DE PIEZAS UNA VEZ QUE EL ROBOT ET**EN EL CUADRO LLAMADO BASE.

SALUDOS,

TAMARA
CLUBHOUSE MEXICO -PALACIO POSTAL

Message by: NANOFORGER6366 11/13/2006 19:42:00 GMT
En las reglas 6,18 y 23 comenta algo al respecto pero no es claro, se dice que puede regresar a la base, pero no comenta si podemos colocarle algun accesorio para continuar con las misiones...

Saludos

Message by: 3c.01 11/16/2006 01:40:17 GMT
El robot puede regresar a la base y el equipo puede cambiar y/o agregar piezas
Christa Corrigan

Discussion: moleculas de pizza By: nitroknights6326 11/29/2006 17:31:04 GMT
* cue pas is El robot deja as molecules dentro pro despues la saca

Message by: 11/28/2006 22:21:52 GMT
Deleted

Message by: NANOGENESIS12002 11/29/2006 17:31:04 GMT
no ganas puntos ya que el puntaje se toma como queda la mesa al terminar el tiempo en otras palabras el puntaje que obtienes es donde quedaron las moleculas al final

Nanogenesis

Discussion: MOTOR MOLECULAR By: NANOGENESIS12002 12/04/2006 01:38:30 GMT
Esta permitido empujar con el robot la molecula de ATP amarilla una vez que ya este puesta en el marco negro por favor denme una respuesta en la brevedad posible

Nanogenesis

Folder: Nano Quest Downloads 12/08/2006 22:28:20 GMT

Folder: Peru 10/03/2006 18:00:17 GMT

Folder: SCANDINAVIA 01/30/2007 15:04:37 GMT

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:05:24 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:05:24 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Folder: SINGAPORE 01/30/2007 15:17:02 GMT

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:17:41 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:17:41 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Discussion: test By: team_pluto 12/05/2006 22:58:46 GMT
test

Message by: 11/19/2006 17:12:33 GMT
Deleted

Message by: 11/19/2006 17:16:36 GMT
Deleted

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/05/2006 22:40:20 GMT
yall are stupid

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/05/2006 22:40:51 GMT
waz up

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/05/2006 22:41:08 GMT
what it is hoe

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/05/2006 22:44:32 GMT
we'll beat you guys so bad BWAHAHAHAHAHAA....HA!

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/05/2006 22:45:10 GMT
no you wont

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/05/2006 22:49:29 GMT
arron is gay

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/05/2006 22:50:44 GMT
ANTONIO'S A FAGET!

Message by: fll-freak 12/05/2006 22:53:50 GMT
And you sir, and very close to having your account terminated. Are you aware that what you write becomes a permanent record in the Forum for people to see for years to come? That right now hundreds of coaches are receiving an email notifying them that a new email was posted by the NanoKatz and allowing them to read it?

-Skye

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/05/2006 22:58:46 GMT
sorry

Discussion: what if some thing doesn't work By: NanoKatz4061 12/07/2006 22:31:49 GMT

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/05/2006 22:57:54 GMT
what if one of the pieces are missing or something doesn't work correctly

Message by: fll-freak 12/05/2006 23:55:11 GMT
What parts are you talking about and what is not working?

And Why are you posting to the Singapore forum when you are a team from Alabama?

-Skye

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/06/2006 22:31:49 GMT
our nxt brick doesnt work with our battery pack, the battery pack is fine, but the nxt isnt working with the battery pack in it

Message by: fll-freak 12/06/2006 23:05:51 GMT
Did you try simple AA baterries in your NXT? If those work, you may be having the problem that a few other people are having. They find that the contacts to the battery pack do not touch unless they put a bit of card stock in the hole first.

-Skye

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/07/2006 22:29:52 GMT
yes. and the AA bateries work.

but we would pefer to save money and recharge batties, instead of buying new bateries every time we run out.

but we have fixed the problem but thanks anyway

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/07/2006 22:31:49 GMT
thx any way though.

Discussion: what if some thing doesn't work By: NanoKatz4061 12/05/2006 22:58:11 GMT

Folder: SOUTH AFRICA 01/30/2007 15:19:54 GMT

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:20:37 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:20:37 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Discussion: Greetings By: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/29/2006 18:50:03 GMT
Greetings from your friends in Michigan. We hope to see the excellent South African teams in the US again this spring!

- Gary V

Folder: TAIWAN 01/30/2007 15:21:26 GMT

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:22:08 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:22:08 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Folder: TURKEY 01/30/2007 15:05:56 GMT

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 01/30/2007 15:06:52 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 01/30/2007 15:06:52 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors.

The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Folder: UNITED KINGDOM 03/06/2007 00:22:59 GMT

Folder: Disclosure and Silicon Spray 11/22/2006 19:23:52 GMT
A couple of questions on process :

a) on the Q&As within the FLL website, there is a very interesting section - Q20 - http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=23730 on adding pieces to the dirt trap. (memo : there is an even longer set of conversations inside the US blog !). A team has read this and plans to build around the dirt trap to try ensure the dirt (blue) bits are caught. There is also a section on the website that says teams should advise judges, in advance of the tournament, about things they plan to do that might be controversial. Is this one example where disclosure is to be encouraged ?

b) I have been asked if it is OK to spray silicon onto the Lego gear trains to ensure free movement. This seems OK to me, but has this happened before ? In your eyes, is it legal and should there be disclosure ?

Mark Sheard
Mentor,
TecnhoBotts, Rudham Rabbitz and others ....

Discussion: Answers By: fll-freak 11/22/2006 19:23:52 GMT
i a) on the Q&As within the FLL website, there is a very interesting section - Q20 - http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=23730 on adding pieces to the dirt trap. (memo : there is an even longer set of conversations inside the US blog !). A team has read this and plans to build around the dirt trap to try ensure the dirt (blue) bits are caught. There is also a section on the website that says teams should advise judges, in advance of the tournament, about things they plan to do that might be controversial. Is this one example where disclosure is to be encouraged?

Here is the USA, it would not need to be disclosed. This is a fairly common approach.

i b) I have been asked if it is OK to spray silicon onto the Lego gear trains to ensure free movement. This seems OK to me, but has this happened before ? In your eyes, is it legal and should there be disclosure ?

This is not OK. The rules specificaly outlaw lubricants. Read the materials rule.

-Skye

Message by: SMART 11/22/2006 14:54:53 GMT
To add to this please don't spray any foreign substances onto your robot. If any of this ends up on the table it could seriously impact other team's robots aside from being against the materials rule.

- Peter

Message by: BEEPS05 11/22/2006 19:23:52 GMT
Skye,

thanks

Folder: For Coaches 12/02/2006 15:17:42 GMT

We have prepared two useful documents for the NanoQuest Challenge:

A field worksheet for the Nano challenge.
* Scaled 1" to 1'
* PDF contains two pages with a color and B&W image
* Images are sharp (created from source art).

Sample Scoring Sheet
* We found that running training sessions that are timed and scored is immensely valuable

Both are available at:

http://www.techbrick.com/Lego/Lego2006/Resources/resources_worksheets.htm

// Marco

________________________________________
Marco Ciavolino
Enktesis, LLC
1603 Belvue Drive
Forest Hill, MD 21050
410.838.8264
fax 1-413-410-2773
marco@ciavolino.com
________________________________________

Discussion: Access to forum by team members By: SHeeN 12/02/2006 15:17:42 GMT
Do your team members access the forum? There is a lot of junk here (esp from Nanocats and Ruskobots). It makes it really difficult to make the forum useful. Is everyone sensible on the US forum?

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/02/2006 15:17:42 GMT
Sensible? Who, us? :-)

Yes, unaccompanied minors can create discord in the Forum. When it gets bad (multiple days worth, inappropriate language) those of us designated as "Moderators" send an email to the team mentor. If it's really bad - I've only noticed it once this year - a sysop somewhere in the FIRST organization can eliminate posts.

What students don't always understand is that foolishness posted here stays here for a long time, and can reflect badly on a team. It's up to team mentors to monitor their students' usage of the Forum. For some that means not giving out the team password, only allowing access while at team meetings. Others instruct their team in proper usage of the Forum, and will allow off-site access. It's always the age-old problem, how much access are we comfortable in allowing to children, and how much will they abuse it? Or worse, how much danger can they put themselves in?

- Gary

Folder: Kicking Things Off... 11/30/2006 18:16:10 GMT

Discussion: HI! By: The Next Generation 11/30/2006 18:16:10 GMT
Hello Everyone!

I think we should all make the most of the forums! So come on and start posting...Hows everyone doing so far?

Message by: Randazzo1589 09/30/2006 15:45:55 GMT
As a rookie team we were wanting to get in touch with local teams in our area to practice with before tournament time. Is there a way to get a list of the local teams in Southeast Florida?

Message by: BEEPS05 09/30/2006 16:49:07 GMT
yes there is you go to teams and tournaments and select florida under united states of america

Message by: SHeeN 10/02/2006 01:32:47 GMT
We've had some good discussions and done some preliminary work but we haven't got our Challenge Kit yet, so we're champing at the bit to get going on this year's missions.

We're going to continue to use RCX for this year. Is anyone using NXT yet?

Message by: The Next Generation 10/02/2006 12:15:05 GMT
We have only just received our challenge kit, and started building the models. We have an NXT set, but although it has better capabilities, we've only had it for a week, and I'm not sure if we will have enough time to get used to it, but our team has been changed a little, last year and the year before we were Hexbotics, but new members, so it depends how quickly we all learn!

Message by: BerkshirePark624 10/02/2006 19:02:39 GMT
Does your team relate to Star Trek TNG?

Message by: PHS220 10/03/2006 16:18:27 GMT
hey hows you all getting on with your robots hope you all do well

Message by: PHS220 10/03/2006 16:20:24 GMT
if any groups sign up from england how you gettin on with your robots?

Message by: PHS220 10/03/2006 21:15:20 GMT
no

Message by: The Next Generation 10/04/2006 11:02:17 GMT
Well, the robot isnt the best but just remember that robot performance is only worth 25% =) So there are planty of other areas to suceed in like TEAMWORK (very mportant!!), but then I guess you do have robot technical, but so long as youve built it not the coach, and you understand it all and can explain, why and how you got to the robot your using that should be fine! We made the mistake on our first year that we spent loads of time on our robot and not on research, so we lost valuable points for that, but ended up with a teamwork trophy.

Message by: TaborToothTigers199 10/19/2006 12:00:02 GMT
hello we are the tabor tooth tigers and we were hoping to get some advice on how to build a pincer.

Message by: babycybe006 11/17/2006 00:53:10 GMT
Hi

I'm just wondering (because this is our first competition) does the robot have to follow the balck lines on the mat when it does the missions?

Thank You please reply if you know the answer!

Message by: ants525 11/28/2006 00:32:57 GMT
Hi, we are the Ants from United States. To answer your question, you do not have to follow the black lines, but it might be helpful. We would love to hear from you. ants

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/17/2006 01:54:48 GMT
Only if you think it will help you acheive the goal. There aren't too many rules about "how" to do things. There are strict rules about "what" needs to be accomplished.

Message by: babycybe006 11/27/2006 22:37:11 GMT
Hi again

On the Fabric Tester mission do we have to take the pit to the mission and bring it back to the base again after the stains are in it?

Message by: SMART 11/27/2006 22:54:14 GMT
Your question is a bit unclear. By "the pit" do you mean the dirt trap? If so, it starts in base and needs to be placed at it's mark on the board for points. If you bring it back to base you won't get points for having it at the mark.

Remember the table is scored at the end of the match.

- Peter

Message by: babycybe006 11/28/2006 16:04:07 GMT
Hi
On the fabric test mission do we have to program the robot to take the pit there, empty the stains into the pit, and take the pit back or do we just have to take the pit there and push the stains into the pit.

Please reply if you know the answer as the mission instructions are not very clear

Message by: babycybe006 11/28/2006 16:06:36 GMT
thanks you very much for that peter we can now comense our programming.

Message by: babycybe006 11/30/2006 15:48:54 GMT
do we get bonus points for having extra objects on the mat

Message by: SMART 11/30/2006 16:05:41 GMT
You wouldn't, no.

What sort of "extra objects" do you mean? Are you referring to one of the missions?

- Peter

Message by: babycybe006 11/30/2006 18:16:10 GMT
THANKS
PHILIP

Discussion: nanocable By: Programmables337 10/06/2006 18:32:57 GMT
Do you push the truck fron base or at the base of the nanocable?

Message by: fll-freak 10/06/2006 18:32:57 GMT
Try reading this document carefully. You will find out where the truck starts!

http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=23680

-Skye

Folder: NXT help 11/21/2006 21:19:59 GMT
add discussions to this folder about anything NXT!

Folder: wot nxt 11/21/2006 21:19:59 GMT
wot is nxt

Discussion: NXT By: lego125 10/22/2006 16:54:17 GMT
As you all know, the NXT is new and not too much is known about it. The old robot was around for years and you could find research about it anywhere. Does anyone know some resources we could use to help us come up with a design or at least to get a better understanding of the new Robot?

Sincerely,
The Scott Lego team

Message by: The Next Generation 10/03/2006 09:18:01 GMT
I dont, sadly, although I have been looking hard because I would quite like to use it this year! I'll ask some of the other team members later when they are round.

Message by: PHS220 10/03/2006 16:22:47 GMT
i dont have a clue this year but when i do i will get on an tell you ok

Message by: Nanorovers81 10/04/2006 16:53:48 GMT
All I know at the moment are the inbuilt tutorials in the softare, but there might be some designs people have put on the internet.

I'll just look, but the limitatations on the school intranet here are large, they block many pages for no reason :(

Message by: NanoKnights5692 10/22/2006 16:51:49 GMT
Not sure if you guys have seen this yet, but check out the following site (Catkin Gable School) for some nice tutorials from Oregon Tournament and Outreach Program (OR TOP).

http://cgsweb.catlin.edu/msrobotics/html/downloads.html

Regards,

Mike

Message by: NanoKnights5692 10/22/2006 16:54:17 GMT
(Sorry for the repost, but I reposted this message because the spell checker changed some of the words!)

Not sure if you guys have seen this yet, but check out the following site (Catlin Gabel School) for some nice tutorials from Oregon Tournament and Outreach Program (ORTOP).

http://cgsweb.catlin.edu/msrobotics/html/downloads.html

Regards,

Mike

Discussion: How many UK teams are using NXT? By: The Next Generation 10/29/2006 22:53:31 GMT
Hi,

Just wondering how many UK teams are using NXT, we are even though it was a bit awkward with it not being shipped until september.

Folder: Research 11/21/2006 18:09:40 GMT

Discussion: Difficulty Of Nanotechnology By: The Next Generation 11/21/2006 18:09:40 GMT
Hi,

We were just wondering about how other teams are coping with the research project, personally we are doing fine but we are wondering if younger team members find it more difficult, or even easier because they think outside the box? Nanotechnology seems quite a hard thing to grasp because it is obviously very small! We had enough trouble explaining to one of our older member just how small it was! SO as we say just wondering if anyone is having difficulties with the research, or if we are just making things more complicated then they really are, as we often do!

Anna -(team member)

Message by: team1365 10/10/2006 21:15:01 GMT
Hi Anna,

I am the team coach of a primary school team in the Netherlands and we have a hard time explaining nano technology to children from 9 to 12 years of age. I asked the oldest members of the team to look a bit on the internet and hopefully they will come up with something. For the yongest members of our team I persoinally think it is to far fetched.

Roel - (team coach, Waalre the Netherlands)

Message by: fll-freak 10/10/2006 21:40:19 GMT
As an adult I have a difficult time thinking this small. But I can still think of problems that a tiny-weenie-itsy-bitsy item could solve. The fast that they do not fully comprehend the true size, is somewhat irrelevant.

Count the number of molecules of water in a tea spoon. Go to the store and buy that many LEGO bricks. Snap them all together. How far would they stretch? Would they make it across the street, the town, the country, the world, to the moon, to the sun, or 3/4 across the galaxy? (last is the right answer!)

So what could you do as a tiny person? Watch movies like the Incredible Voyage where people shrink down to save a human life or Honey I Shank the Kids. Could you find and destroy a tumor? Could you have a helicopter the size of a dust mite to fly into a hostage situation and see what's happening? How about tiny scrubbers to clean your teeth so you do not have to floss?

-Skye

Message by: Masters of the Mesoscale 10/11/2006 01:25:22 GMT
That was a great idea Skye!
Susan

Message by: fll-freak 10/11/2006 01:29:00 GMT
By the way, send me half the LEGO bricks when you are done for giving you such a great idea!

-Skye

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 18:09:40 GMT
Has any one got any ideas for the presentasion ???????!!!!

Folder: The Open European Championship of FIRST LEGO League Bodo Norway 04/24/2007 11:29:44 GMT

Discussion: Participating Teams By: Risbotics11 02/02/2007 22:54:13 GMT
RISBOTICS team wins the BeNeLux Finals in Delft (Netherlands), january 27th. 2007 (BeNeLux=3 countries Belgium/Netherlands/Luxemburg)

The Risbotics team is very proud to be the team that received the Champions Award.

Of course they worked for it, but it is also a reward for other very important issues. The team has enjoyed working with technique over the years and sharing that with others. The researching and making and preparing the presentations, truly have fun and be respectful within the team and to others. This is surely noticed and recognised by the jury.

We want to thank EVERYBODY for all they have done. Starting with the organization and all volunteers, you have done a great job!

But also our school, teachers, parents, families of the team and our sponsors. The Risbotics have enjoyed the finals and the big crowd that cheered all teams.

The nerve breaking waiting took a long while, but the reward was worth it all! The TU Delft Champion*s Award!!

see also our website: www.risbotics.nl

Message by: BEEPS05 01/31/2007 17:53:09 GMT
As Champions of the BeNeLux, why are you not going to the World Final in Atlanta ?

Message by: Risbotics11 02/02/2007 22:54:13 GMT
Actually we could choose between Atlanta and Bodo, the team decided for Bodo because it is a FLL-only championship, whereas Atlanta has also other robots competing.
Further we find the program and side activities in Bodo really attractive, lots of fun!

Discussion: Lottery Places By: The Next Generation 04/24/2007 11:29:44 GMT
Hi,

Did anyone apply for the lottery places for the OEC?

The Next Generation

Message by: SHeeN 03/30/2007 19:28:00 GMT
Yes! And we have just been told we've got a place.

Who else is going from the UK?

Message by: SHeeN 04/20/2007 17:21:21 GMT
We've just pulled out because it is too expensive. I hope the rest of you get on OK - we'll be watching on the web.

Message by: Risbotics11 04/24/2007 11:29:44 GMT
I'm very sorry to hear that financing is the reason that your team is not coming.

In fact We've had considerable trouble to get that aspect covered as well.

Is it a good idea to raise the entrance fee and use the surplus to help the best teams competing in Worlds/European finals? (sorry not for lottery tickets!)

Discussion: HELLO By: PHS220 12/07/2006 11:06:02 GMT
how are people in england getting on with their robots if yous got it were getting ours next week

Message by: The Next Generation 10/04/2006 10:56:42 GMT
Hi,

Are you talking about the mission mat and stuff? We got ours last week and spent ages franticly putting it together! Im surprised you haven't received yours yet, oh well I guess you have some time to make a start on your Project. Is this your first year, if not what were you called last year. and what regionals are you going to? Sorry bombarding you with question =). Our robot isn't going so well we have almost all the attachments we need, but the driving base is proving a bit tricky because we are using NXT and haven't really had that much time to get used to it, at the minute it drives basically in a straight line, but it wobbles alot, making it harder to navigate, and control, but one of the things we've learnt is that your first atmmept never really works, but you learn from it and eventually you will have a good robot! Last year we made 47 lol.

Have fun!

Message by: Nanorovers81 10/04/2006 17:01:15 GMT
We Got ours last week, too. I wonder why you haven't got yours. Hmmmmmmmm, maybe it fell out the back of the truck. :D

Message by: PHS220 10/11/2006 21:48:18 GMT
weve gt ares now its easyer this year coz we no what were doin and yes we did do it last year we came 3RD

Message by: PHS220 10/11/2006 21:49:17 GMT
yer we got or now it was coz the adresses got mixed up

Message by: TaborToothTigers199 11/01/2006 15:23:22 GMT
hi guys we haven't finished the assault course or the robot yet and we have less tan a month

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 18:11:26 GMT
we have nearly got it but the robot is a bit of a problem do you know where we can get extra bits of lego

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 17:59:52 GMT
Has any one got any good ideas for arms on the robots?
thank you!!!!!

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 18:05:47 GMT
why dont you use some long ones and try and make a forklift

Message by: thelukenators275 12/07/2006 11:06:02 GMT
hi we've programed 9 of our missions yipeee!!!!

Discussion: HELLO By: PHS220 11/21/2006 21:18:21 GMT
how are people in england getting on with their robots if yous got it were getting ours next week

Message by: nanomania2020 10/09/2006 17:36:32 GMT
We have got our robots now...after a short delay...and we're not getting on to badly..but it is a little bit of a struggle to get to know the NXT really well...In someways I don't think it is as much as a challenge to program as RIS or Robolab was...which is kind of good

Message by: thelukenators275 11/10/2006 10:51:16 GMT
hello out there

Message by: thelukenators275 11/20/2006 11:05:28 GMT
we I the Luknators how I I din with Jr models?????
we ave finished ours??????
(nearly!!!)

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 17:58:25 GMT
were fine we just need to program can u help us

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 17:59:21 GMT
Could you please tell us where we can get some lego pieces from?We are short on the last couple of pieces. thank-you

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 21:18:21 GMT
lego from ebay

Discussion: A Small Dilema By: The Next Generation 11/01/2006 15:26:20 GMT
Hi,

I've been busy reading the rubrics that we have been given to see what we need to have/be. I noticed that it says for excellent in the "teamwork and FLL values, Roles & Responsibilities" that you should have clearly defined team roles, but then everyone is expected to answer questions in every interview. This shouldn't be too bad for teamwork, but how can someone who has done the research be expected to know everything for the technical interview. I presume they want us to answer the questions so they know its our work, but if they asked one of us about the robot, but they had done the research, and they said they didn't know, would we score less??

Also it seems for the robot design rubric, that the more sensors you use in all sorts of complicated ways, and the more attachments you have the more points you score for technical, but this goes against the whole KISS saying! We are honestly confused on what to do!! Do we keep it simple or try and get more points by adding all sorts of sensors?

What does everyone else think on this, because it seems to me on the rubric that some things contradict each other, and there is no "more important" part because each section is worth 25%.

Message by: fll-freak 10/06/2006 18:15:29 GMT
Yes the rubrics are confusing. They are samples and may in fact not be the ones your tournament director uses. They are also just a starting point or guide for the judges.

On the issue of "defined roles" vs "jack of all trades": If your team has selected the JOAT approach, then they do have a clearly defined role! If that was how the team decided to run and they all knew it and supported it, then great. If they took the specialization route, then they too had clearly defined roles. Make sure they explain this clearly during the interview. ie. "We did not specialize but rather did a bit of everything so that we could all learn something new and interesting".

I for one think the specialization method is for the birds. The kids get much more out of the program and each other if they are involved in all aspects. I hate to see a team with the girls doing the research and the boys making the robot. This does not mean that you have kids that are better in some areas than others. If thats the case celebrate the master programmer but make sure they also do their share of the research.

On the order of KISS versus Complexity:
Most tech judges can spot the difference between a team that only has one attachement because that was all they could get to work, versus the team that used one attachement designed to accomplish all the missions. A few years ago, a team at World Festival accomplished perfect scores with a robot that had no attachements. You can bet that that was as impressive as a team with 9. Again, during the interview, the kids can say something like "We are not using the light sensor because we found no practical use for it. Our nagivation does not rely on any mat markings but rather contact with mission models."

Personaly I never have shown the rubrics to my team. I rather concentrate on making sure they all understand what they are doing and why. As we go along during meetings, I will ask "judge type" questions and listen to their answer. I may then follow up if I do not think it was clear. This all happens without them realizing they are getting drilled.

-Skye

Message by: The Next Generation 10/06/2006 23:09:50 GMT
It's quite funny what you say about the girls doing reserach and boys doing robot, in our case its the total opposite! Thanks for helping! A perfect score with no attatchments, wow!

Message by: IAFLLModerator 10/11/2006 17:30:49 GMT
As head judge advisor for world competition, Skye is right on the mark -- judges can spot differences and they want to see that teams aren't so specialized that if a kid got the flu the night before the tournament that the team would have trouble running the robot or giving the presentation. You can have "experts" in certain areas, but make sure your team is on the same page and can multi-task.

Message by: TaborToothTigers199 11/01/2006 15:26:20 GMT
i've an idea connect them get them working and make it look they work, but use human programing

Discussion: Cable Tester By: nanomania2020 11/21/2006 18:07:25 GMT
Hi,

Has anyone found the nanotester cable doesn't actually fit on its markings on the mat?? We were told that we had to look at the US Q&A becuase that is the only one that is updated and had a relevant answer. Is anyone else doing this??

Thanks

Message by: fll-freak 10/06/2006 20:20:21 GMT
Read the Q&A page for the answer!

-Skye

Message by: nanomania2020 10/09/2006 17:33:04 GMT
Thanks for that

I was just wondering if people were doing this because in previous years we have done what the US Q&A has said but others haven't and we have been overuled..We're trying to not make the mistake again!!

Thanks again

Message by: fll-freak 10/09/2006 17:55:40 GMT
I did not realize you where in the UK. I still think my answer is correct. FIRST tries to have the same rules around the world but has trouble at times with the language barrier. Luckly the UK speaks a close dialect to "American"!

-Skye

Message by: SHeeN 10/15/2006 11:04:15 GMT
I'm updating the UK FLL website and I see that (like last year!) the Q&A is not updated. I have changed the Q&A link from the UK FLL website to link to the US one - it doesn't make sense for the answers to be different and I suspect that it is the standard problem of trying to update the same info in more than one place. The Content Management System being used atm has some pretty crummy features that encourage people to duplicate info :(

Message by: The Next Generation 10/09/2006 18:07:40 GMT
Nanomania, what was your team name name last year? You sound as if youve done it before! (sorry a bit irrelevant)

Message by: nanomania2020 10/09/2006 20:13:38 GMT
Thanks for that Skye...

Hi Next Generation

We are an out of school team, we are manialy made up of the team one year ago, 'Aqua Ambers' and others from the 'fhs Floaters.' But also some of went to Atlana two years ago after winning the UK Final...we were called the 'Eye Robots.' We have also competed in Robocup Junior Dance, that is really good, and we would recomend to anyone, amazingly we became the Junior Dance world champions!!!... you can see our website for that at : http://www.ictamber.org.uk/phantom
But we are mainly interested in having a good time this year and learning about the NXT. But its hard work getting to gether ...because we are an out of school team, so we just meet at weekends

We have done a website if anyone is interested at all..its not compleated though, its at http://www.nanomania.org our

Someone our team has got an illness so we are researching into curing that illness....so its kind of personal...is this at all similar to what others are doing??

What about you? How are you doing?

Can't wait for the competition...but got lots of work to do...you forget how much work is involved don't you!!

Thanks

Nanomania

Message by: nanomania2020 10/09/2006 20:14:08 GMT
Thanks for that Skye...

Hi Next Generation

We are an out of school team, we are manialy made up of the team one year ago, 'Aqua Ambers' and others from the 'fhs Floaters.' But also some of went to Atlana two years ago after winning the UK Final...we were called the 'Eye Robots.' We have also competed in Robocup Junior Dance, that is really good, and we would recomend to anyone, amazingly we became the Junior Dance world champions!!!... you can see our website for that at : http://www.ictamber.org.uk/phoenix
But we are mainly interested in having a good time this year and learning about the NXT. But its hard work getting to gether ...because we are an out of school team, so we just meet at weekends

We have done a website if anyone is interested at all..its not compleated though, its at http://www.nanomania.org our

Someone our team has got an illness so we are researching into curing that illness....so its kind of personal...is this at all similar to what others are doing??

What about you? How are you doing?

Can't wait for the competition...but got lots of work to do...you forget how much work is involved don't you!!

Thanks

Nanomania

Message by: nanomania2020 10/09/2006 20:17:34 GMT
Sorry got one of our URL's wrong!! it was:

www.ictamber.org.uk/phoenix

Also..sorry I'm going on a bit..

Is anyone going to the Duxford tournament on December the 2nd, it doesn't seem to be on the team list but Chris Proctor said is is happenning....

Thnks again

Nanomania

Message by: The Next Generation 10/09/2006 23:08:23 GMT
Yes, I remember you!! We were Hexbotics but we totaly bombed out in the no limits challenge because of fatal brick errors, we ended up winning the teamwork trophy!! We got through to Atlanta last year, I think you will agree it is amazing! Sounds like your going to score quite well this year because your solving a personal problem, you were called eye robot, because didn't five of your members have poor eyesight, or something along those lines, my memory is failing me!

I have checked out your web sites, nice work, I dont think we stand a chance against a team like yours, you seem so accomplished, but im sure we will come out learning something new as always... Your right about forgetting how much work is involved its almost doubled for us now because some of members felt lego was to "uncool" for them and left, its such a shame.

Message by: nanomania2020 10/10/2006 08:54:26 GMT
we have ended up with a large age range in our team which is really nice...from about 12- 16(junior mentor)

It feels a bit like it's new becuase your using an NXT which is good - and the presentation..is kind of challenging!!

Hope you get on...currently sorting out a minor problem with our robots....bezel...or castor..??

Nanomania

Message by: nanomania2020 10/10/2006 08:55:35 GMT
How was Atlanta last year - we found it a bit daunting..and very expensive..but a very good experience

Message by: The Next Generation 10/10/2006 18:08:31 GMT
Atlanta was great, we managed to raise all the money we needed and extra, so after that we just chilled out, and didnt mind where we came in the competition because at the endof the day we hade made it!

Message by: nanomania2020 10/10/2006 20:05:16 GMT
Glad you enjoyed it....the american teams are pretty amazing arn't they.

Only three team members who went to Altlana are still doing it now, manily for the reason, as you said, that its considered 'un cool.'

Message by: The Next Generation 10/10/2006 20:34:42 GMT
We couldnt believe some of the funding American teams get!! They have amazing pit areas. I was dont up with some bunting and balloons...

Here we are still smiling...in our nice cheap Tesco swimming shorts...

Message by: The Next Generation 10/10/2006 20:35:49 GMT
Sorry didnt seem to attatch

Message by: nanomania2020 10/10/2006 20:52:40 GMT
Very good!!

You did beter than us...we ended up with bright green printed t-shirts..

...but when we went to Germany we used Tesco's...we had to have 5 differnt t-shirts each...it saved us so much..and they looked much better!!

Message by: nanomania2020 10/10/2006 20:53:17 GMT
Very good!!

You did beter than us...we ended up with bright green printed t-shirts..

...but when we went to Germany we used Tesco's...we had to have 5 differnt t-shirts each...it saved us so much..and they looked much better!!

Message by: nanomania2020 10/10/2006 20:54:53 GMT
Sorry managed to post it twice by accident

Message by: nanocats4394 11/16/2006 22:48:36 GMT
I personally, have seen that it does fit. Maybe you had a miss print or you put it on the wrongside of the board. I have also found that ours don't work. Any way, you have to remember that this is only to practice on andthe ones at the compition will be perfect (or close to).

--Nano Cats Rep.

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 18:07:25 GMT
i dont understand

Discussion: Help!! - with space elevator By: nanomania2020 11/17/2006 04:03:59 GMT
Hi,

Just wondering what other people thought about the space elevator becuase in one place, the field set up it says:

"ACTIVATION: When both rolling trigger arms are pushed toward the elevator, the cars should slowly trade places."

This sounds like both robots have to activiate it for it to work

But on in the mission specification it says:
"Operate the space elevator. At least one robot must cause the car with the yellow cargo to come down. If this mission is completed, no matter which robot or robots worked on it, both teams get 40 points."

This sounds like only one robot has to operate it for it work?

Thanks

Nanomania

Message by: The Next Generation 10/09/2006 22:53:48 GMT
If both teams are just going to hit the bar then yes you would need two robots, however because it just says "operate" who says you need to bump the bar, all you need to do is get the platform with a man and barrel down. I think it also designed to make you co-operate with other teams, and ask your oppnents if they are going to do it, and if they arent then you dont have to try , unless you have come up with another solution ;) Happy Problem Solving =D

Message by: nanomania2020 10/10/2006 20:05:40 GMT
Thanks for that

Message by: botzealots1105 10/15/2006 01:34:48 GMT
You can do it yourself, or with the other team.

Message by: nanocats4394 11/17/2006 04:03:59 GMT
You can do it or the other team can do it but when set, bith teams get points.

--Nano Cats Rep. :^)

Discussion: Does anyone has tips for us By: AC Nano Madness 1133 11/16/2006 22:54:48 GMT
Hello everyone!

Are there any teams have good tips by program the robot and building the robot. If you have a answer or something to say, let a messege behind on the forum.

AC Nano Madness team

Message by: The Next Generation 10/12/2006 20:19:37 GMT
Our little tip is not spend all of your effort on the robot, remember the research presentation!

Message by: nanomania2020 10/12/2006 20:45:32 GMT
And enjoy it

Message by: thelukenators275 11/10/2006 22:06:44 GMT
jyjhhhjgfgfj

Message by: nanocats4394 11/16/2006 22:54:48 GMT
Here,
TO have acurrate wheeling, one method is to put a piece of tape onto a part of the wheel and count the revolutions that it takes to get to certain places on the board. Then, enter thae amount of revolutions when programing and then you are acurrate. Also, You can use so directions on the web and add on and off pieces to make it better. Lastly, make wheels lose so that they can turn easily.

Discussion: Does anyone has tips for us By: AC Nano Madness 1133 11/28/2006 22:46:33 GMT
Hello everyone!

Are there any teams have good tips by program the robot and building the robot. If you have a answer or something to say, let a messege behind on the forum.

AC Nano Madness team

Message by: TechnoBotts188 10/14/2006 12:47:31 GMT
If you are a new team look in the First Lego League coaches handbook about KIS (keep it simple). The handbook is to be found in the FLL website.
It helps if your robot goes in a straight line.
Good luck !

Message by: SHeeN 10/15/2006 11:10:06 GMT
Do you have a link for the Coaches' Handbook? I've been hunting for it but can't find it.

Message by: SHeeN 10/15/2006 12:02:06 GMT
I found it! In case anyone else also hasn't found it, it's at the top level of the Forum:
FLL International Forum
and is about third item from the bottom.

I do wonder about putting something as important as this in the forum, and not on the main site. It would be easy to overlook (especially without a search facility).

Message by: SMART 10/16/2006 15:38:32 GMT
True, but the coaches handbook is part of what you purchased with your registration. So if the put it on the main site those who didn't register would also have access.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but it is their copyright.

- Peter

Message by: TaborToothTigers199 11/01/2006 15:14:43 GMT
it's easy all we have to do as a programer is a few button clicks. you should have a disc called "using robolab" it's all on there. by the way could somebody help us with a pincer that picks up an object.

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 18:02:59 GMT
build a strong robot

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 22:46:33 GMT
some good tips are to get the nanotube strenght, back up to home turn to the direction of the atomic force microscopy mission. Upgrade it by the speed of your robot.

Discussion: Does anyone has tips for us By: AC Nano Madness 1133 11/21/2006 21:13:29 GMT
Hello everyone!

Are there any teams have good tips by program the robot and building the robot. If you have a answer or something to say, let a messege behind on the forum.

AC Nano Madness team

Message by: TaborToothTigers199 11/01/2006 15:20:44 GMT
you've got a hell of a lot of messages guys but what you need is for your wheels to use a small amount gears or better none at all however you can use as many peices as need as long as you have three motors and don't mix sets so have more than one team for yourself.

Message by: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 21:13:29 GMT
when building the robot try to make it strong and ad arms for activities

Discussion: how do you build a pincer ? By: TaborToothTigers199 11/22/2006 11:03:37 GMT
does anyone know how to build a pincer we've tried building ones sugested in booklet but they don't seem to work very does any one have any tips?

Message by: 11/21/2006 18:00:58 GMT
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Message by: 11/21/2006 18:07:21 GMT
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Message by: 11/21/2006 18:09:28 GMT
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Message by: 11/21/2006 18:16:29 GMT
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Message by: 11/22/2006 11:03:37 GMT
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Discussion: Promotional DVD By: The Next Generation 11/02/2006 01:32:47 GMT
Hello,

We have found out that many other teams in the USA, are given a research DVD, and a promotional DVD. Apparently we should all be getting the research DVD, but we were wondering if anyone knew about the promotional DVD. We have contacted Chirs Procter about it and he says he doesn't know anything about it, only the research DVD. So any teams out there know if we can get hold of it, or download it of any site?

Thanks
The Next Generation

Message by: Dinnodownquarks 11/01/2006 15:41:06 GMT
We've not heard anything about this and I would be greatful if you would let us know anything you find out- sounds like it would be really useful!

thanks

Message by: SHeeN 11/02/2006 01:11:05 GMT
What is the research DVD and where did you hear about these DVDs?

Message by: fll-freak 11/02/2006 01:32:47 GMT
The research DVD was produced by FIRST (with my help) and distributed to teams in North America. Not sure why it did not go to other countries. It features an interview with two coaches. One veteran and one rookie. It also features 5 research presentations from the New Hampshire State tournament.

-Skye

Discussion: Truck for Nanotube Strenth By: bawdseybeavers5 11/09/2006 13:55:00 GMT
Where in the mission or the rules does it specify where the initial position of truck for the Nanotube Strength mission is placed? Is it in the base?

Message by: fll-freak 11/09/2006 13:55:00 GMT
Neither. Its in the field setup instuctions.
-Skye

Discussion: elastic bands By: Ruskobots 11/22/2006 11:13:12 GMT
just check that we can have elastic band on our robots

Message by: fll-freak 11/15/2006 15:27:33 GMT
Is this a question or a statement?
-Skye

Message by: The Next Generation 11/15/2006 16:40:40 GMT
You can so long as they are from a lego set, and they are in original factory condition!

Message by: nanocats4394 11/17/2006 04:00:00 GMT
You can. Thats all there is to it.

--Nano Cats Rep.

Message by: 11/21/2006 18:14:13 GMT
Deleted

Message by: 11/21/2006 21:21:55 GMT
Deleted

Message by: Ruskobots 11/22/2006 11:13:12 GMT
this is a question!!!

Discussion: help!!!!!!! By: Ruskobots 11/21/2006 17:56:04 GMT
how do you program your robot????

Discussion: how doyou program your robots????/ By: Ruskobots 11/29/2006 18:54:41 GMT

Message by: 11/21/2006 17:59:47 GMT
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Message by: 11/21/2006 18:01:14 GMT
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Message by: 11/21/2006 18:09:26 GMT
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Message by: 11/21/2006 18:11:48 GMT
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Message by: 11/21/2006 18:19:22 GMT
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Message by: 11/21/2006 21:10:03 GMT
Deleted

Message by: fll-freak 11/21/2006 21:21:49 GMT
Ruskobots,

Are you aware that the Forum is not a chat system? That each and every of your messages have now become a permanent record for future generations to read? That what you post will be a reflection on your team for years to come?

-Skye

Message by: 11/22/2006 11:01:20 GMT
Deleted

Message by: fll-freak 11/22/2006 14:43:28 GMT
Then I suggest you change your login name to prevent its unauthorized use again.

-Skye

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 22:52:50 GMT
you open up robolab, press programer, double click inventer4, make a program, then press the arrow in the top left hand corner after connecting the lego tower then do it again for other programs.

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 22:52:54 GMT
you open up robolab, press programer, double click inventer4, make a program, then press the arrow in the top left hand corner after connecting the lego tower then do it again for other programs.

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 22:52:56 GMT
you open up robolab, press programer, double click inventer4, make a program, then press the arrow in the top left hand corner after connecting the lego tower then do it again for other programs.

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 22:53:23 GMT
you open up robolab, press programer, double click inventer4, make a program, then press the arrow in the top left hand corner after connecting the lego tower then do it again for other programs.

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 22:53:29 GMT
you open up robolab, press programer, double click inventer4, make a program, then press the arrow in the top left hand corner after connecting the lego tower then do it again for other programs.

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 22:53:49 GMT
you open up robolab, press programer, double click inventer4, make a program, then press the arrow in the top left hand corner after connecting the lego tower then do it again for other programs.

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/29/2006 18:54:41 GMT
> then do it again

Ah ha! I see the problem. You've programmed an infinite loop.
- Gary

Discussion: Good Luck! By: The Next Generation 11/27/2006 23:57:32 GMT
Hi,

Just wanted to say good luck to all the teams who are going to be competing soon, and congratuations to all those who have already taken part, hope the experience was enjoyable!

Discussion: we've got problems By: TaborToothTigers199 12/01/2006 18:34:59 GMT
please help us we can't programe our robot for some reason and we've tried everything it says please help us it is the last week before the competion

Message by: SHeeN 12/01/2006 18:34:59 GMT
It's really difficult to answer this question. What have you done? In what way can you not program it? Which kit are you using. If you tell us more, we can help you.

Discussion: we've got problems By: TaborToothTigers199 11/28/2006 22:56:00 GMT
please help us we can't programe our robot for some reason and we've tried everything it says please help us it is the last week before the competion

Message by: Ruskobots 11/28/2006 18:52:55 GMT
sorry but we are finding it very difficult aswell. If you find out any more information could you please let us know too. If we work it out we will pass on the information to you.

Message by: nanomania2020 11/28/2006 19:19:04 GMT
What robot are you using an NXT or an RCX??

If you are using the NXT there is a very detailed powerpoint on programming an NXT etc. on the website below:
http://www.hightechkids.org/?2-1-1054#NXT_Training_Material

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/28/2006 19:23:58 GMT
Try the tutorials that came with the NXT Education Release. (A different set of tutorials are on the retail release, they are also excellent.) They give exact step by step instructions for a lot of basic tasks.

There is a video demo of how to use the Robot Educator here:

http://www.lego.com/eng/education/mindstorms/home.asp?pagename=redu&l2id=4_3&l3id=4_3_2&l4id=4_3_2_1

Perhaps that will help?

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 22:55:45 GMT
i dont know maybe you need to change the batteries or change the version of your robolab

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 22:55:48 GMT
i dont know maybe you need to change the batteries or change the version of your robolab

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 22:56:00 GMT
i dont know maybe you need to change the batteries or change the version of your robolab

Discussion: we need some helpful programs please!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By: nanocats4394 11/29/2006 07:17:07 GMT
we need help with programs, the tournament is this saturday please help we're very desperate

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 23:04:44 GMT
hello

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 23:04:58 GMT
i am stuped

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 23:05:29 GMT
a hole

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 23:06:06 GMT
like what

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 23:07:16 GMT
hello

Message by: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 23:08:38 GMT
what can i do? i want to help do soething.

PS i like megan morris

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/29/2006 07:17:07 GMT
Nanocats: Perhaps you don't realize each and every message you post here is emailed directly to your coach?

Discussion: we can help any problem, just respond By: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 23:07:02 GMT

Discussion: we can help any problem, just respond By: nanocats4394 11/28/2006 23:08:02 GMT
we can help almost any problem, just respond to this message.

Discussion: time limit By: dragoons 12/03/2006 15:41:01 GMT
What happens if you are over the time limit?How many points will be deducted?

Message by: The Next Generation 12/02/2006 22:28:32 GMT
Which time limit? The matches with the robots, or the technical/research presentation?

Message by: dragoons 12/03/2006 07:40:57 GMT
missons

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/03/2006 15:41:01 GMT
No points will be deducted. The match simply ends, and whatever you have accomplished in that timeframe will be counted. If you complete a mission clearly after the buzzer (bell, whistle, gong) sounds, the ref will tell you it doesn't count.

- Gary

Discussion: UK Final By: BEEPS05 01/31/2007 17:54:24 GMT
Please can we ask which teams are at the UK FInals - we know NanoMania qualified from Cambridge and TechnoBotts from Essex ... but who are all the others, and how many will there be ?

Message by: nanomania2020 12/07/2006 20:02:24 GMT
Hi,

So presumably you are through too??

Can't wait until the finals!

Nanomania

Message by: SHeeN 12/09/2006 16:46:59 GMT
The SHeeN team is through from Swindon. I'd like to put up some results on the UK website. If anyone has any (not just robot performance), it'd be great to receive them (any format acceptable and as raw as you like - I'll standardise them). I'll also take photos or URLs if you have uploaded to websites.

Message by: 12/13/2006 15:44:25 GMT
Deleted

Message by: The Next Generation 12/16/2006 18:48:36 GMT
We have qualified!

Message by: SHeeN 12/16/2006 19:37:37 GMT
Congratulations! Where are you?

Message by: The Next Generation 12/18/2006 01:19:36 GMT
We are from the North-East of England we competed at the Teeside event. What was everyones topscore on the table? Ours was 326...

Message by: SHeeN 12/18/2006 09:53:14 GMT
326! Well done!

We had been getting up to 360 points in practice (including the space elevator) but it was difficult in 2.5 mins - our 'bot is accurate but slow moving around the table. In the competition our highest was about 160. Before 27 January we are going to speed it up and try to program the other 40 points.

Message by: The Next Generation 12/18/2006 18:43:22 GMT
We arent as good as Nanomania, I think they got 370/380 our robot can score 390 and has done once in practice at home but we were pleased with the score we did achieve at the competition. We need to make everything slightly more reliable...

What is everyone using? NXT or RIS?

160 isn't a bad score you would of come 2nd in our Regionals for robot performance, but as we all know its not just about our robot!

Message by: SHeeN 01/29/2007 20:53:57 GMT
Well done to everyone who took an award on Saturday. It was a good day and we enjoyed seeing all your robots - time to start using NXT, I think.

I just found this NanoQuest certificate which we can give to our team members and I thought the link might be useful for other people:
http://www.usfirst.org/community/resourcecenter.aspx?id=816

Message by: BEEPS05 01/31/2007 17:54:24 GMT
SHeeN,

well done your selves - 10th place

Best wishes

The TechnoBotts Team

Discussion: Is this in the rules ?? By: BEEPS05 12/08/2006 15:17:23 GMT
Skye,

Is it within the rules to run an RCX robot at the Challenge table in run 1, but an NXT in the second attempt to score points ?

We think it is - there is only one robot at the table at a time.
We see it as no different to have a 'spare' of anything in the pit area.

Your advice would be appreciated

Message by: fll-freak 12/07/2006 15:57:41 GMT
This has been discussed in the Forum already. The rules do not say that for one match you can run RCX and for your second and third an NXT. You should be able to do so. I have had a positive indication from FIRST on this. What the rules do not mention is that some tournaments seem to have made their own house rules against this. You need to call ahead to your tournament direcotr to find out.

-skye

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 12/08/2006 15:17:23 GMT
It may have something to do with the scoring system the tournament uses.

In the games I've reffed, we had a check-off box to indicate whether it was NXT or RCX. I presume when the corresponding radio button was clicked in the scoring software, the 20-point bonus was correctly awarded based on 3 missions for RCX or 6 for NXT.

If a tournament uses scoring software that requires each team's platform to be input only once, they will have to require each team to choose what they will be using.

- Gary

Discussion: Well Done! By: The Next Generation 02/01/2007 01:40:33 GMT
Just want to say congratulations to The CRACK Team for winning the UK finals, and of course to everyone else for getting there. Hope you all had a good day whether you won anything or not...

The Next Generation

Message by: 02/01/2007 01:40:33 GMT
Deleted

Discussion: 25% for each category? By: The Next Generation 01/31/2007 19:28:27 GMT
We are a bit confused we had been told that you awarded the following marks in the following sections:
25% Robot Performance
25% Robot Technical
25% Research
25% Teamwork/Spirit

However we were reading through the leaflet distributed at the FLL UK national and under the heading: Directors Award it said this:
"Teams considered for the Director's Awards are those that perform well in technical and team performance categories, which are equally weighted. Once teams are selected, judges review the results of the teams' FLL teamwork interviews. Using this final parameter for determination, judges will decide which team will receive this most coveted award"

Does this mean that we could of won the Director's Award even if we hadn't done a research project?! Please can someone shed some light on this....

Many Thanks
The Next Generation

Message by: fll-freak 01/30/2007 00:43:16 GMT
Your best bet is to ask this question of your tournament director. FLL is a volunteer organization and all competitions are run differently.

I would guess that the wording choice was poor. That "technical" includes robot, tech interview, and the research project and "team performance" is the teamwork interview (and possibly the research).

-Skye

Message by: The Next Generation 01/30/2007 10:36:54 GMT
Thank you!

Message by: BEEPS05 01/31/2007 18:08:24 GMT
Having been there on Saturday, I think the judging for the Director's Awards (Winner and Runner-Up) was done in the standard way. If you noticed, Next Generation finished 6th overall, which says you did pretty well in most things.

There were 2 prizes for each of the 4 categories, of which you won Best Project, something you omitted to mention above, being an humble team, plus finished 3 or 4th in robot performance having got thru' to the SemiFinal !

Also, if you noticed 10 different teams got awards, of which there were 11 in total, which is 100% in line with the spirit of the FLL.

Message by: nanomania2020 01/31/2007 18:50:24 GMT
Sorry to bother you...but was there a list of positions posted somewhere...we seemed to of missed if there was one!

Thanks for you help

Nanomania

Message by: The Next Generation 01/31/2007 19:20:55 GMT
We would also like to know where you acquired this information.

Many Thanks
The Next Generation

Message by: The Next Generation 01/31/2007 19:24:19 GMT
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=29070
Sorry we just found the link!

So does this mean that:
The C.R.A.C.K. Team
Technobotts
UP 'n' ATOM
Widcombe Wrobotiers
Nano Doctors

Are being invited to the next stage of the competition?

Discussion: UK Winners By: The Next Generation 03/06/2007 00:22:59 GMT
Well done to:
The C.R.A.C.K. Team
Technobotts
UP 'n' ATOM
Widcombe Wrobotiers
Nano Doctors

What locations are you going to? Are you all able to attend? We hope you are and that it doesnt conincide with any GCSE/SAT tests!
(we were close, but not quite good enough!)

Message by: TechnoBotts188 03/04/2007 13:22:53 GMT
The TechnoBotts are going to Atlanta in April - fortunately it doesn't coincide with any tests as it's in the Easter holidays and the team members are in Y5, Y7 and Y8.

Message by: The Next Generation 03/06/2007 00:22:59 GMT
Wow! That is going to be an amazing experience, last year we qualified so if you need any help/advice on anything don't hesitate to contact us! We applied for a place in Norway and were successful...we couldn't think of a better way to end our FLL experience.

Folder: UNITED STATES 02/05/2007 21:48:26 GMT

Folder: Equipment Questions 09/13/2006 02:30:07 GMT

Folder: Battery Questions 12/07/2006 14:51:33 GMT

Discussion: rechargable Batteries By: ShadowBots90 12/06/2006 23:10:05 GMT
Is anyone using the rechargable battery pack for the NXT? If so, does it top out at 8.2 or 8.3 in the NXT software? I keep mine on charge, but it never seems to be full. Are others seeing the same thing or should I be sending my batteries back?

thanks,
Linda

Message by: The Pleiades-4405 09/19/2006 04:01:35 GMT
Hi Linda,
The rechargable battery pack from Lego is a 7.4 volt battery. I was hoping that it was going to supply the full 9 volts that you get with a set of double A's, but alas, life is a compromise.
We've decided to be enviromentally conscious, & take the hit on voltage.
Cheers,
Michael Hearn - The Pleiades
Dover, NH

Message by: GeniusInDisguise1559 09/27/2006 04:18:11 GMT
We attended a Girls Connect event last weekend. We used the rechargable battery that came with our NXT kit. One team at the event used standard AA batteries. Our robot looked anemic by comparison, even on a fully charged battery.

We have some 2500 mAh nimh batteries that I will probably use for early practices before switching to alkaline.

Bob
Genius in Disguise 1559

Message by: RadioactiveSpam1500 10/29/2006 01:10:23 GMT
Yes, I was also wondering why our rechargeable battery topped out at 8.2. Furthermore, today after a two hour session in which our robot was turned on the whole time and running much of the time, we noticed the robot "acting up" - it wouldn't finish one of the programs that had been working before. The battery was at 7.8. After charging the battery back up to 8.2, the program worked fine. Is that the entire range 7.8-8.2? Seems awfully tight, although I guess two good hours is not bad.

Message by: fll-freak 10/29/2006 03:03:32 GMT
Can you describe in more detail how it was acting up? What was not finishing?

I have been too busy at work and at home to get much chance to play with the NXT. But I have been noticing some common threads with the NXT and NXT-G. Once issue is that program seem to get stuck before going on to the next icon. This has been described in several threads and in differenct ways. I am currently going to GUESS that the motor synchonization code may not terminate properly. That the final rotation counts are not the same and hence it can't continue. But for some reason the NXT is not able to get them to the same count. Perhaps due to low battery voltage.

It would be interesting to make a copy of the program that failed and simply turn off the motor sync and see if it "acts up" as well.

7.8 to 8.2 does seem like a very narrow range.

-Skye

Message by: RadioactiveSpam1500 10/29/2006 03:38:16 GMT
Our program has the robot going forward (motors B&C, then backing up(B&C), then the attachment motor moves (motor A), then it is supposed to move forward again (B&C). It did not move forward. Since the last thing to happen was just one motor, do you think it could it be the synchronization (I have no idea how that works)?

How do I turn off the motor sync to try your suggestion?

Thanks,
Lori

Message by: fll-freak 10/29/2006 14:21:19 GMT
How about I modify my GUESS a bit! Perhaps the singple motor move you called for fails to complete. This would prevent the following locomotion move from happening. So can I guess that the single motor move was for a set number of rotations or degrees and not for time? If this is the case, perhaps the motor control logic that tries to get the motor to the exact position is failing to complete at lower voltages. For giggles, try to replace the single motor move from rotations/degrees to time and see if the program continues.

-Skye

Message by: RadioactiveSpam1500 10/29/2006 20:01:20 GMT
Good guess, but unfortunately wrong. We are already using time for that very reason.

Lori

Message by: fll-freak 10/29/2006 22:03:22 GMT
Did the problem go away after you recharged the battery pack?
Does it come back when the pack gets weak?
Can you post the offending program?

-Skye "batting 0.0" Sweeney

Message by: RadioactiveSpam1500 10/30/2006 05:55:14 GMT
Yes, the problem went away after I recharged the battery pack. I haven't run the battery down again, but I will do so as soon as I get a chance (it may be a few days). Also when I get a chance, I'll transfer the program from the team laptop to my PC so I can send it as an attachment.

Thanks for staying with this,
Lori

Message by: RadioactiveSpam1500 10/31/2006 03:57:41 GMT
I have attached two files (I hope):
1) Failing.rbt: the original program that was giving us trouble
2) BatteryKiller.rbt: the program we used to wear down the battery to try to recreate the problem.

Results: Could not recreate the original problem. Started with battery charged all the way up to 8.2. Ran BatteryKiller almost constantly for over an hour, stopping only to check the battery level. When it got down to 7.8, the Failing program did not fail. However, after continuing to run BatteryKiller (with its infinite loop) for a while, it just stopped running (they don't make infinite the way they used to). The battery at that time was still at 7.8. Continued to start BatteryKiller up again and again, and it kept stopping every 5 minutes or so. Battery stayed at 7.8, Failing still worked fine. That's when we gave up.

Message by: fll-freak 10/31/2006 04:14:56 GMT
Interesting results. Unfortunately no files attached! For your reference you can't attach more than one file per message.

-Skye

Message by: nanomaterz2366 11/05/2006 21:22:38 GMT
Loaded battery voltage may be significantly lower that static battery voltage. Might that be the issues ? You could try to datalog the battery voltage while the robot moves. I suspect the voltage drops during large current draws i.e. when you accelerate or brake hard.

Imaging away / flick

Message by: RadioactiveSpam1500 10/31/2006 04:27:22 GMT
Here is the original failing program.

Message by: RadioactiveSpam1500 10/31/2006 04:28:02 GMT
Here is BatteryKiller

Message by: RadioactiveSpam1500 11/07/2006 05:19:24 GMT
Our problem happened again at our scrimmage match this weekend. 8-( After reading some of the other problems people are having with strange behavior on the NXT, I'm starting to think this is not a battery problem after all. I just downloaded the latest firmware. I'll let you know if that seems to fix it. We'll be working with the robot pretty extensively tomorrow and Wednesday.

Is there a way I can see the list of bug fixes (release notes) between firmware version 1.01 and 1.03?

Message by: NanoKatz4061 12/06/2006 22:32:30 GMT
sup dudez

Message by: RadioactiveSpam1500 12/06/2006 23:10:05 GMT
Mine also tops out at 8.3. I think that is normal.

Lori

Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: fll-freak 09/18/2006 21:17:11 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ (UFAQ) before posting your questions. The UFAQ is the result of condensing the posting from the previous four seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions have likely already been answered. The UFAQ has been updated for this year's rule changes.

The UFAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the UFAQ at:

http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

Skye Sweeney
skye@fll-freak.com

Discussion: Rechargeable Battery Memory Effect? By: SMART 10/20/2006 05:28:00 GMT
Hi All,

Regarding the new batteries. Anyone have any technical information on these? Specifically, are these batteries going to perform poorly if you keep them fully charged? Do they need to be drained before recharge?

We think it will make life easier to keep them fully charged for consistency, but want to make sure that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot with a bad battery come competition time.

Regards,

Peter

Message by: botzealots1105 09/27/2006 15:41:04 GMT
Drain them once when you first get them, after that you can recharge when you wish. Or keep them on the charger. They are the same type of batteries used in new laptops, so the same methods apply.
Mike

Message by: Cyborgs1200 10/20/2006 05:28:00 GMT
These batteries are Lithium polymer batteries. This battery chemistry has no "memory" effect. There is no problem keeping them fully charged.

Discussion: Battery-pack for the RCX By: telgenborch 11/05/2006 21:47:32 GMT
Because the performance of the RCX depends very much on the battery-voltage we consider designing an internal power-supply on the basis of rechargeable Lithium-Ion batteries. With these batteries we can generate over 10V, and regulate it down to 9V in such a way that the available power is stable until end-of-life. Has anyone built such a power-supply before? And, even more important, is such a battery-pack allowed during the contest?

Message by: fll-freak 10/04/2006 12:48:08 GMT
Try reading rule 8!

b must be made entirely of LEGO elements in original factory condition.

Does LEGO make a custom made battery with a voltage regulator? This type of question is also answered in the UFAQ.

-Skye

Message by: SMART 10/04/2006 16:12:25 GMT
Skye,

Apologies, but that doesn't really make sense. Lego doesn't make Alkaline batteries either, but they are legal.

Teams can use alkalines, rechargeables (Nimh), or the Lithium battery that comes with the FLL kit. I've never heard of anyone making their own custom battery (seems like a rather risky proposition to me), but I don't believe I've ever seen a rule against it.

Now, that said, all work is supposed to be the kids work. If you are creating a battery to solve a problem is it the kids that will be creating this battery. Was it the kids idea to create a new battery? Judges will probably not be very impressed that the adult coach came up with a custom battery.

- Peter

Message by: fll-freak 10/04/2006 17:44:45 GMT
In years past, the Allowable Materials rule has included a 'waver' for 6 AA batteries. This allowed teams to power their RCX bots! This year tha clause was removed. My guess is because of the LEGO battery pack.

I think if you were to use rule 36, you will find that FIRST would disallow a custom battery. But there is only one way to find out.

-Skye

Message by: SMART 10/04/2006 18:02:48 GMT
By that logic RCX based robots are no longer allowed to have batteries at all! Hopefully a team using RCX will ask for a Q&A on this rule ;-)

- Peter

Message by: fll-freak 10/04/2006 18:07:44 GMT
You are right. In the distant past, the AA batteries were not in the rules. That caused a Q&A ruling. The following years the rule was changed.

-Skye

Message by: MA_Head_Ref 10/04/2006 21:05:13 GMT
This is so blatantly illegal and unfair, I am surprised it is being asked. If your 9-14 year olds are building a custom power supply, great. But even THEN it is illegal.

Jack Gregory

Message by: telgenborch 10/10/2006 11:54:38 GMT
A reaction from the initiator of this question:
Our intention is to play fair and completely legal and transparent! Just because the lack of rules regarding the battery-issue I posted our idea so anyone can benefit from the discussion. We are spending a huge part of our budget on (alkaline) batteries. So it was worth starting some research on it. It is a known fact that the voltage of 'normal' rechargeables is 1.2V and that's just very low. Any kid can explain this. To gain speed and power we can change to standard-available Lithium-cells but these are quite pricey. We are looking for a good & affordable alternative without the risk of being disqualified during the race.

Sander Smits - Almelo NL

Message by: Florida_Moderator 10/10/2006 18:47:41 GMT
Sander,

The rechargeable idea is cool, but it would not be best for FLL competition. Your team could come up with a cool rechargeable battery for use during practice, I know of a few good LiPoly packs that would fit in the area and produce a good output. For the competition, it would be best if you ran with the Lithium in the form of AA size batteries.

As a side note, it would also be a great learning exercise for the kids to understand the difference between the batteries. Making a pack that would fit the area and create a better working environment is a great thing. Have them document it on a science fair board and bring it to the judging. The kids understand rules and such, if the rules say the robot can have 6 AA batteries at the competition table, I*m sure they will not have a problem with that. They also are old enough to help develop and understand the practice solution.

Have fun and don't let the posts get you to bent, people sometimes get a bit possessive of their beliefs.

-Laura

Message by: YottaToYocto 10/17/2006 07:47:36 GMT
Sander, heed Laura's advice and don't let the tone of certain replies get to you. I won't put words in other people's mouths but I suspect some of that originates from witnessing teams in the past that were rather obviously driven less by the kids than the coaches. It doesn't sound like this applies in your case.

To get this back on topic :-)... have you seen Philo's design of an external power supply for the NXT? I realize this is different from what you are trying to do (a rechargeable battery pack) but you - er, I mean the kids on your team ;-) - might be able to glean some useful information from it. As others have noted, though, your custom battery pack wouldn't be legal in the competition but it might save you some money during the season.

Good luck, have fun, and may the kids on your team learn a lot from your efforts!

Message by: nanomaterz2366 11/05/2006 21:47:32 GMT
Interesting discussion. One could ask if any AA cell is legal. For example if voltage is the goal there is the 3.6v AA cell - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5835687617&category=45096. However, putting 6 of these in series will probably fry the RCX.

Imaging away / flick

Discussion: NxT Rechargable pack vs Alkalines By: NanoNavigators_2114 10/19/2006 16:49:01 GMT
Has anyone done any performance testing comparing the NxT using the supplied rechargeable battery pack versus fresh alkaline batteries? Does it make a big difference? we only have one robot and it is always at the other coaches house so I do not have much of a chance to to these types of tests...........

Thanks,

Jeff

Discussion: NXT Lego battery pack vs. Eveready E2 batteries By: LA Wildcats 11/07/2006 21:35:18 GMT
Has anyone benchmarked the provided NXT lithium battery pack against a set of E2 batteries? I'm no electrical engineer and I'm not sure I'm talking apples and apples here. The NXT Lithium pack is rated at 1400 mAh, and 1 E2 AA battery is rated at 3000 mAh. If mAh are cumulative for a set of batteries the way voltage is, this means that a load of 6 E2's accumulates to 18000 mAh, or over 12 times as much power as one charge cycle on the provided Lithium pack. If so it seems that a team could do an entire day of competition heats on 1 set of E2's and basically forget about battery issues. Or a team could use every spare minute of non-table time charging their Lego battery pack and maybe get through the day. Is that the right way to look at the alternatives?
Brooks
LA Wildcats

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/07/2006 02:06:47 GMT
I haven't done the benchmark you suggest, but one day we came to practice with a dead NXT lithium pack. We plugged it for what seemed like a very short time, maybe 15-20 minutes, and the bot was used (lightly) for the rest of the practice. Surprised me!

Be interested to hear other experiences.

Message by: redrobots2924 11/07/2006 03:04:48 GMT
I don't know if this would matter but when we check the battery level in our NXT with fresh Duracell Power or Panosonic Oxyride batteries it is at (probably above) 9V. Does a fully charged NXT rechargeable battery pack have the same 9V reading? We don't have a NXT rechargeable battery pack yet so I don't have the answer. I'm thinking of getting one and then I could do a study I guess. I could have the kids run a program that uses the most juice and run it over and over and take measurements at certain time intervals and do this for both the NXT rechargeable and Duracell Power, Eveready E2, Panosonic Oxyride, etc.

If somebody has already performed this or a similar test please chime in. Thanks!

Phil
Coach - Red Robots, MI

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/07/2006 16:39:06 GMT
There was actually another post asking for these same kind of tests. My team are die hard E2 users but there is a lot of debate about which battery is the best.

We have a battery pack I would happily lend you to work with. Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: CGMSC2605 11/07/2006 17:42:18 GMT
The battery mAH rating is not cumulative for a set of batteries in series. Six 1400mAH batteries in series has a 1400mAH rating, six 3000mAH batteries in series has a 3000mAH rating. So the 3000mAH has approximately twice the total power as the 1400mAH regardless of how man are connected in series.

For batteries in series the voltage adds but the mAH rating does not.

Conversely, for batteries in parallel the mAH rating adds but the voltage does not.

Message by: LA Wildcats 11/07/2006 18:11:39 GMT
Thank you for the information folks. So, to flesh it out a bit further, E2's would give you a little over twice the run time at a full 9 volts over the Lego rechargeable pack at 8.2 volts. In each battery platform, would you say that one or the other has a flatter rate-of-drain curve over the course of the available mAH?

In a competition day, we could probably alternate between 2 Lego packs and keep a relatively fresh one on the table through 6 heats. Certainly 8.2 volts is sufficient to get through the missions. Or we could invest in some E2's, recalibrate everything for 9 volts, still change battery sets probably 2 or 3 times through a competition, and not worry about recharging.

If neither power source is materially better in terms of the stability of power supply before rate of drain on the battery accelerates to the point it needs changing, maybe there's no compelling reason to get into E2's? We have two NXT's so I'm glad we have 2 Lego packs to use to support 1 competition robot. I'm not sure 1 pack would be enough for a full day of 50 or 60 missions through 6 heats all running at optimal battery charge. There doesn't seem to be enough recharge time in that scenario to keep 1 optimally charged pack on the table.

Message by: botsquad2672 11/07/2006 20:04:44 GMT
When we charge our NXT lithium batteries we usually get 8.3 as a full charge rating. Once we got 8.6, but only once. I have 3 batteries that we use between two robots. I'm curious if this seems to be the norm with everyone.

GC
Botsquad Coach

Message by: SMART 11/07/2006 21:35:18 GMT
I'll double check later, but that sounds about right.

- Peter

Discussion: New batteries supercharged the robot By: 5296calabots 11/29/2006 00:26:52 GMT
Help! We changed the batteries on our NXT and the robot became supercharged, knocking over the missions, going way farther and faster than before. Has anyone else experienced this?

Do we run some of the power down? Should we re-program to match the new power?

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Message by: fll-freak 11/28/2006 20:07:14 GMT
You are now an official member of the "Batteries Zapped Us" club. We will be sending out your membership certificate, club song, secret handshake, and club dues in the mail.

This is a very common problem. One that FLLers have been up againsts from day one. Lots of ways to solve the problem. One is to drain the battery the other is to keep the battery ful and reprogram the bot. Your choice and welcome to the club.

-Skye

Message by: 5296calabots 11/28/2006 23:45:10 GMT
We feel so privileged...not.

Man, we never had this problem with our little RCX unit.

Thanks for the shoulder and the membership. We'll uphold all the club requirements with pride (and frustration).

Message by: fll-freak 11/28/2006 23:54:31 GMT
I am very surprised you did not have this problem with an RCX. But I will make the guess that your RCX robot was a small light weight bot with wheels and your NXT is on the heavy side.

-Skye

Message by: 5296calabots 11/29/2006 00:26:52 GMT
That's it exactly. This NXT creation is very heavy on gadgets. Oh well, we'll make it work.

Thanks again.

Discussion: 1.5 volt Lenmar Rechargeable By: Purple Kiwis 11/28/2006 22:42:04 GMT
HI,
Has anyone tried the Lenmar 1.5 volt Alkaline rechargeable batteries in RCX/NXT or other devices? The 4 pack is selling from $7.50 to $9 and the very few reviews about these batteries has been positive. You can find them mostly online including Amazon. They only have 1500mAh but the manufacturer claims that they charge fast, no memory, and we get 1.5 instead of 1.2 volt.

Anatole

Message by: Purple Kiwis 11/28/2006 22:42:04 GMT
It appears that they can be recharged for about 50 times instead if 500 or higher for NiMh or other rechargeables. Even with avg of 30 to 40 reuse at 1.5 volt, it might still be a better deal since the price is very reasonable.

Anyone having any experience with them?

Thanks
Anatole

Discussion: NXT Rechargeable Battery Does Not Work By: NanoKatz4061 12/06/2006 00:28:19 GMT
We have 2 new NXT kits. On one, the rechargeable battery works fine, as do batteries, but on the other NXT brick, neither rechargeable battery will work, though batteries do. There is clearly something wrong with the NXT brick. How can I get this replaced?

Trudy Nye

Message by: fll-freak 12/05/2006 22:50:59 GMT
Trudy,
When the battery is installed in the 'bad' NXT, does it make a very slight clicking sound? Need to get close to it to hear.

-Skye

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 12/06/2006 00:28:19 GMT
I found that one of our NXT bricks requires a slip of cardboard inserted with the rechargable battery pack, to "use up" a little bit of extra space. Without the cardboard, the battery terminals don't connect properly. The other brick is fine without the cardboard.

Discussion: Battery Question Please reply fast By: quantumbots3207 12/07/2006 14:51:33 GMT
Our robot works the best at 8.2. Is it okay to keep rechargeing the battery every hour?

The Quantum Bots

Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #5 12/07/2006 14:51:33 GMT
Quantum Bots,

Recharging the NXT's Lithium-Ion battery pack every hour or so for a short while during a tournament should be fine for the battery. Lithium-Ion batteries do not suffer from significant memory effect and shouldn't have any problems with the strategy you describe. For normal usage however, I'd suggest a longer cycle time.

--ken
MAYHEM FLL Co-Coach
http://www.mindstormsmayhem.org
http://www.moremayhem.org

Folder: Equipment Marketplace 01/20/2007 06:55:45 GMT

Discussion: RCX/Sensors/Motors for sale By: LaSalle4533 01/20/2007 06:55:45 GMT
Because the title of this forum includes "marketplace" I'm going to assume that it's ok to offer things for sale.

I have two RCX's, about 11 motors, 3 rotation sensors and a host of light and touch sensors and wires for sale. The RCX's are revision 2.0 with serial numbers in the 73xxxx and higher range. If anyone is interested in purchasing them, I will compile a complete inventory and post pictures somewhere.

You may contact me direct at robots@f3p.com.

Thank you,
Jon Gilchrist

Message by: Limit Busters 198 10/13/2006 03:01:09 GMT
How much are you looking for them? I may be interested.

Limit Busters

Message by: TechnoBots 11/25/2006 04:49:46 GMT
RCX's and motors show up on eBay daily. RCX's get $45 to $60. Motors go for about $20 on average. Sensors of all types show up frequently. Try also Bricklink (www.bricklink.com), an on-line market place of literally thousands of Lego product user-vendors. I sell on Bay myself, and buy regularly on Brick link. Both get my very favorable recommendation.
Rus
TechnoBots coach

Message by: Limit Busters 198 11/28/2006 03:19:53 GMT
But it's risky to buy from eBay and Bricklink. At the very least here, its from someone from FLL and probably trustworthy.

Limit Busters 585

Message by: nanoknights216 12/04/2006 19:36:02 GMT
Risky how? Bricklink and eBay both have feedback systems so you can see how previous transactions went. How does a forum without that improve the situation? I would rather read the feedback of the last 100 people who actually did business with a seller than trust someone just because they are in FLL. Not that FLL people aren't terrific, mind you, but that doesn't mean that they will be terrific as sellers.
Tammy

Message by: Mini-Monsters 12/16/2006 19:51:32 GMT
An instructor at NC A&T State University is looking to buy 40 RCX kits. If you are interested in selling your kit to him, please contact:
Edmundson Effort
edeffort@ncat.edu

Thanks!

Marie

Message by: GeeWhiz1421 01/20/2007 06:55:45 GMT
Since the forums will close up soon, I suppose this (slowish) exchange won't get updated to find the answers to the questions already here.

Discussion: Any Field Kits For Sale?? By: redrobots2924 01/20/2007 06:49:16 GMT

Message by: redrobots2924 12/31/2006 04:53:41 GMT
I'm wondering if anyone has any Field Kits that they would like to sell. I'm interested in purchasing No Limits, Ocean Odyssey and/or Nano Quest. Please post here or send me an e-mail. Thanks!

Phil

Message by: GeeWhiz1421 01/20/2007 06:49:16 GMT
I brought this topic up with my club members as a possible way to move into the 2007 season with some extra cash. The club has the ocean and nano fields currently. The basic problem is what price is fair for them? The team was able to get through the 2006 season without needing the elements from the 2005 field pieces. The nano set is using more modern elements, so maybe they will be useful for the 2007 campaign for which we have decided to go to the NXT-based machine.
If you let me know what you're offering, I'll relay that infomation to the rest of our club for consideration. Post here and I guess I'll get notified, or send directly to wgbourn@cox.net. I'm also presuming you'd like to get the mats too, right?

Folder: LEGO Building Questions 01/09/2007 13:48:08 GMT

Discussion: Field Items - Directions By: TitusTigers2334 11/19/2006 03:26:32 GMT
Is there any way to PRINT the directions for constructing the field pieces off the CD?

Message by: MarkhamWeebots2839 09/19/2006 16:07:52 GMT
I printed them by locating the actual PDF files on the CD, then opening each seperately and printing them. I'm sorry, I don't have the CD here with me to tell you exactly what directory they're in. It should be fairly easy to navigate to though.

Message by: TitusTigers2334 09/19/2006 17:08:00 GMT
Thanks, I was able to locate the files.

Additionally, I was able to use "Microsoft Office Document Image Writer" to create pages with 4 of the page directions on it and then print out the pages. This was helpful to reduce the number of pages needed to be printed.

If some needs the 4 per page files, I did save them on my computer, so I could send them to anybody.

Message by: GeniusInDisguise1559 09/27/2006 04:50:17 GMT
I was able to print 2 pages, front and back (4 pages / sheet), using options under Acrobat Reader print. I didn't have to cut and paste to Word.

Message by: Jestforfun3968 10/27/2006 22:31:48 GMT
please send me the four per page plans. thanks ann

Message by: TERMIGATORS 10/11/2006 22:01:09 GMT
do u get the screening peice with the set?

Message by: killer2847 11/18/2006 21:10:20 GMT
i assume we can use ANY Lego product such as Bionicle and technic items. Those items are far more reliable and strong than lego bricks....
Am I correct?

Message by: fll-freak 11/19/2006 03:26:32 GMT
You are correct that you can use Bionicle or Technic. Not sure your right about reliability or strength.

-Skye

Discussion: Bucky Ball By: nanobyte1202 11/01/2006 18:40:07 GMT
Can the buck Ball for the cancer cell be placed on your robot while it is in the base?

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 09/26/2006 16:52:10 GMT
Yes the ball starts in base. Anything in base can be touched by the team. Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: 10/19/2006 21:59:50 GMT
Deleted

Message by: SMART 10/19/2006 22:02:59 GMT
A trophy for the team and a great deal of satisfaction!

But even if you don't win I suspect you'll still have the satisfaction if you feel like you achieved your goals and are proud of your work.

- Peter

Message by: RTH437 11/01/2006 18:40:07 GMT
yes the bucky ball can start out on your robots tool in base-RTH437

Discussion: Packing for tournament By: nano2569 11/10/2006 17:28:08 GMT
Here's another question from a rookie coach.

How do you pack your robot? What kind of materials do you use?

Message by: tanrobotics 11/05/2006 18:30:52 GMT
Lots of bubble wrap and a box that just fits the robot. Jigs and claws go into an empty Lego box (the green ones).

Paul Tan.
Co-Coach of St. Clement's Lego Robotics
Nano Penguins 1
Nano Penguins 2

Message by: Gear Geeks 1 11/05/2006 21:13:33 GMT
We have used gun cases for the last 3 years to pack our robot and all of the attachements. We cut the foam insulation material to fit the robot and attachments. We can drop our robot case from 5 feet off the floor and open it and no damage is done to any of our pieces. Another advantage is that they are light weight and have a carrying handle.

You can buy these cases at Wal-Mart. They are not expenseive, and save really protect our robot.

Mary
co-coach Gear Geeks
past coach Argonauts in Georgia

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/06/2006 02:58:54 GMT
My daughter's coach used a metal camera case, about 8"x8"x12" with foam interior dividers. Not sure where he got it or if it was expensive or not.

- Gary

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/06/2006 16:35:41 GMT
Make sure you do have padding. Last year we didn't know that it was so important. Between me dropping the robot out of the case and the robot hitting against the side of the case while we traveled to state, the poor little thing could barely make a curved lined. We spent most of state last year trying to figure out what was wrong with it. Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/07/2006 00:32:12 GMT
I have a feeling that with everyone going to small digital cameras now, there are probably a lot of those big old padded camera bags around, from the big old SLR cameras we all used to have. Maybe we can find some of those in the back of a closet.

Message by: nano2569 11/07/2006 01:47:57 GMT
Thanks for the ideas.

I think I'm going to go looking for large, padded case.

Message by: botsquad2672 11/07/2006 19:38:43 GMT
Just a thought for all you teams not basking in the 80 degree temps of South Florida :-). I remember last year that many teams in the not-so-sunny regions had problems with their batteries if they were kept in a cold, non-heated area such as a garage or car (packed and ready to go to the tourny). You will find that the cold batteries do not work the same way as when they are room temp and it will affect your robot's performance. So, you northern teams keep those robots tucked warm & snuggly in your homes on that night before tourny. And as a footnote, I would but be careful with tucking them into bed and under the covers of your little programmers. You will find that the robots are rather cold-hearted and not used to being snuggled. They are not very fond of it and the "snuggling" can be detrimental to their physical well-being.

GC
Botsquad Coach

Message by: SMART 11/07/2006 21:36:32 GMT
I would go so far as to say don't even put it in the trunk if it is really cold.

- Peter

Message by: botzealots1105 11/10/2006 17:28:08 GMT
The same holds true for the computer you are going to use. When warming up they can get condensation inside and cause problems. Keep it all warm. We bought an old suitcase at a thrift shop and lined it with foam. We went to the World Festival and had to take it on the plane. Traveled just fine.

Discussion: Jig examples By: GeniusInDisguise1559 11/29/2006 19:08:37 GMT
I understand the concept of a jig used to help align/aim the robot while in base, but I've never seen any examples. I've tried building a couple to aim the robot at a strange angle, but haven't been very successful at building one that has the correct angle and is robust.

Can anyone point me to pictures and/or instructions that show how to build a strong jig with non-right angles?

Thanks,

Bob
Team 1559

Message by: MA_Head_Ref 11/29/2006 15:29:14 GMT
There are two ways we use to build angled jigs. Sorry, no pictures, but I hope the descriptions help. One is to lay technic beams on their side (holes vertical). Then find the angle you want by making a right triangle (which nestles in the corner of base) and selecting one hole on each side such that the angle is the one you need. There are various adjustments you can make, such as using some other parts to get half-hole resolution.

The second and more precise method is a worm gear drive. You set it up on its side, attach the active part of the jig to the output axle, and then crank until you get the angle you want. Then lock it down by fixing the crank. You can get any angle with this method by gearing down the input. Since you cannot back-drive a worm gear, it stays as long as you don't turn the input side.

The hardest part of using jigs is to get the kids to use them consistently and precisely, doing the same thing every time.

Jack Gregory

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 11/29/2006 19:07:40 GMT
The other thing you can try is to start the robot out at a standard angle, and program it to then turn ever so slightly to get the alignment you need. You may be able to use the same jig for more than one outing. For example, it turns slightly to the left to get to the bone, slightly to the right to get to the magnets.

- Gary

Discussion: Magnet on Nanotip By: bluecheesyflamingos 12/05/2006 17:59:55 GMT
What is the official name for the magnet peices on the nanotip? I need to order one. Thanks, Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: redrobots2924 12/05/2006 17:39:43 GMT
I've seen them in the Lego christmas catalog for the train but I don't have the catalog here. Did you look on bricklink.com?

Phil
Coach - Red Robots, MI

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 12/05/2006 17:41:07 GMT
Yes but so many pages popped up I didn't know which ones they were :( Carla

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: redrobots2924 12/05/2006 17:45:10 GMT
What about pn 73092 on bricklink.com which is a "magnet cylindrical"? Do you just need the magnet or the base it fits in as well?

Phil

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 12/05/2006 17:59:55 GMT
Need both pieces :)

Discussion: building Instructions for cable tester By: 4-Hers06 01/09/2007 13:48:08 GMT
Where can our team get a copy of the build instructions? Our team has mislocated the CD that contains the assembly instructions. We have had a few mishaps and we can not remember how to properly assemble the cable tester that lifts the dump truck. Are the assembly instructions on-line?

Message by: fll-freak 01/09/2007 13:48:08 GMT
theguysinside644 "We need help FAST!!!!!!" 12/11/06 6:36am

-Skye

Folder: Motor Questions 01/04/2007 01:51:59 GMT

Discussion: 4 Motors? By: nanobyte1202 09/26/2006 18:32:43 GMT
Can you have 4 motors on your robot at a time but only use 3 at a time?

Message by: fll-freak 09/22/2006 17:51:47 GMT
No. Please read the UFAQ on this matter. You can find it here:

http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

-Skye

Message by: nanobyte1202 09/26/2006 16:47:41 GMT
Thank you.

Message by: IAFLLModerator 09/26/2006 18:32:43 GMT
For our Championship, we made a robot check-in form to use as a 'visual' guide to the allowable parts on robots. You (and other teams) may find it useful when designing your robot. To use it, just go down the RCX or NXT side, circling the number of each part your robot uses. If you have more of a certain part than the form shows, then you aren't allowed to use that many.

Feel free to check it out:
http://www.isek.iastate.edu/fll/iowa-championship/nano-quest-rules/

Discussion: 4 Motors? By: nanobyte1202 09/28/2006 16:58:43 GMT
Can you have 4 motors on your robot at a time but only use 3 at a time?

Message by: botzealots1105 09/27/2006 15:42:01 GMT
No

Message by: IAFLLModerator 09/28/2006 16:58:43 GMT
Here is a link to an allowable parts list checkoff sheet -- http://www.isek.iastate.edu/files/2006_RobotCheckIn.pdf

good luck -

IA FLL Moderator

Discussion: 4 Motors? By: nanobyte1202 09/22/2006 19:11:13 GMT
Can you have 4 motors on your robot at a time but only use 3 at a time?

Message by: fll-freak 09/22/2006 19:11:13 GMT
Posting the same question over and over even after it has been answered is not considered "good form".

Now I have done it myself it times when I use the 'back' button in my browser and back into the message I posted. When that happens you have 1/2 hour to delete the duplicate post before it becomes a permanent record.

-Skye

Discussion: Best place to purchase motors and rotation sensors? By: Westfield Bots 3102 11/26/2006 21:11:46 GMT
This is my first year coaching. Sorry if this question is covered elsewhere.

Where is the best place to purchase additional motors and rotation sensors? I could definitely use them sooner than later!

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

Message by: fll-freak 09/25/2006 16:32:30 GMT
You have a few choices.

LEGO Shop At Home sells spare motors and sensors for NXT and some RCX.

LEGO Educational sells lots of goodies.

Contact info for these is in the back of your Coaches' Handbook.

Bricklink.com is the 3rd party LEGO brick marketplace. Hundred of vendors sell every part imaginable and some that are not.

-Skye

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 09/27/2006 20:48:24 GMT
Don't forget ebay - with all the cautions that you would normally take when buying anything online.

- Gary V

Message by: TechnoBots 11/26/2006 21:11:46 GMT
I have had great success in acquiring RCX's , wheels, sensors, cables, etc on Ebay. RCX's go for something in the $60 range, often less. Ebay is not so great for small parts (axels, pins, beams, bricks, lift-arms). For miscellaneous parts, try www.Bricklink.com, a network of literally thousands of Lego user-vendors with millions (yes, Millions!)of used and new parts to sell. It takes some time to learn your way around the site, but it's worth the investment of your time.

Rus Stolling
Coach, TechnoBots

Discussion: Slow motor By: Robo Reapers 2529 09/27/2006 15:47:58 GMT
Our motor goes very slowly. Any suggestions to speed it up?

Message by: fll-freak 09/27/2006 00:08:37 GMT
Gears. Find and read a copy of Building LEGO Robots for FLL. Their is a link in the UFAQ.

-Skye

Message by: botzealots1105 09/27/2006 15:46:01 GMT
It could be a bad motor. Compare it to your other motors. If they are all about the same then gear it up.They have built in gear trains to slow them down.They should run at 170 rpm with no load(NXT), about 350 rpm for RCX.

Discussion: Hand Turning NXT motors By: BionicBulldogs536 10/14/2006 02:07:21 GMT
Our kids love to trial the motors by hand turning them. I keep telling them that I don't think it is a very good idea. Am I wrong? Are they doing damage to them by doing this?
Kim

Message by: fll-freak 10/13/2006 14:50:32 GMT
Normaly gear trains do not like to be driven in reverse. Reverse drive normaly puts much larger strain of a system that can be damaging. With that said, in suspect LEGO is aware that kids will be driving them in reverse. In fact they have to know it about the NXT motors since they have the record feature on the NXT.

But all in all I would have the kids only hand turn them only when nessesary as it will keep wear and tear down.

-Skye

Message by: BionicBulldogs536 10/14/2006 02:07:21 GMT
Thanks for your quick response. I will show your answer to our team and hope they heade your advice.
Kim

Discussion: Wobble in NXT when going in straight line? By: Eagles4680 01/04/2007 01:51:59 GMT
Our NXT slightly wobbles when it is suppose to go in a straight line. I thought that the software would synchronize the motors automatically but it seems like it doesn't. It is hard to explain but it is almost like a right foot, left foot, right foot etc. type of wobble. It doesn't seem to result in a huge deviation but seems like it should be correctable. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Message by: fll-freak 10/23/2006 22:30:56 GMT
I think people are expecting more from the NXT sync function than is possible in this price bracket. One of the first experiments I ran was to see how straight the NXT would go. This was the subject of a video tutorial at http://www.fll-freak.com. If you run my experiment you will see a sin wave in the tracing. This is the right/left foot 'wobble' that you see. In the case of MY NXT, with MY motors, MY tribot, and MY table, that wave was on the order of about 1/4 to 1/2 inch. If you are using a different robot that sin wave could be more or less.

The reason for this deviation is that the NXT only realizes it has to correct for an error once it has gotten an error. It can't see into the future. Once it has an error, its behind the 8 ball and must correct it. Now it could be lazy about the correction and not have the oscillation, but it is not and hence it overcorrects just a bit and gets into the 'wave'.

Now before people get upset at LEGO, the current behaviour is very good. I must have taken a considerable amount of time to get it to work as well as it does. Just be glad you are not trying to get an RCX to drive straight!

-Skye

Message by: botsquad2672 10/25/2006 04:06:45 GMT
Here I thought our robot was the only weirdly wobbly one?! We are having the same problem. I saw another discussion on this elsewhere, but I can't seem to locate it. We have checked our structure, there is nothing binding, nothing rubbing, and we have checked it out with 3 seperate types of wheels. My kids have affectionaltely named our robot the "Funky Chicken" (due to design looks), but I'm starting to think that "Funky Duck" would be better. If you figure out something, let us know.

GC
Botsquad Coach

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/03/2006 17:00:51 GMT
Interesting news, so we are not alone.

Botsquad, I was looking for the same thing! I bookmarked this wobble discussion yesterday, may it is the one you were thinking of:

Bluelightning1381 "Wobbly robot" 10/23/06 6:20pm

-- Nora

Message by: NanoCrushers3822 12/08/2006 18:36:03 GMT
We figured this one out the week between the qualifying tournament and the state tournament. We swapped motors tried different wheels, braced and rebraced the motors, but the problem is the wheels. Specifically balloon tires. We switched to solid tires and our accuracy is so much better that when the robot returns to base on the smart medicine mission, it can back into the aiming jig 1 out of 3 times. I wrote an article explaining the physics of the tires. You can see it at http://summerhours.com/Wheels.html I think these wheels will force the tournament to change the missions. Next year nobody is going to run anything else.

The funny thing is that I was buying 43.2 mm x 22 balloon slicks on bricklink.com and there was a $10 minimum at the brinklink.com store I was ordering from, so I ordered 6 sets of balloon tires and one set of these others just to make it over $10 and they make 100 points difference in our average run.

Search bricklink.com for these descriptions
Black Tire 41 mm Directional Tread ..... $0.399 each
Lime Wheel 41mm Znap Thin Tread ..... $0.3975 each

Bill Herman
NanoCrushers
International School
Bellevue, WA

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 12/08/2006 18:41:50 GMT
The images on the site show up as broken links ;) Carla

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 12/08/2006 19:04:06 GMT
Also thanks for posting this. I forgot to tell you in the last post.

Our team is using the balloon tires and for the first time in 3 years we got a 'flat tire'. After many runs one of the balloon tires didn't hold it shape anymore and cause the NXT, even with the move blocks, to slightly veer left. I am showing your article to my kids this weekend. Its too late for us to change this years robot for state but this gives them thoughts for next year. Thanks again, Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: dhystad 01/03/2007 08:51:27 GMT
In response to NanoCrusherd3822's interesting wheels analysis:

There is a flaw in your baloon tire analysis. The effective radius of a tire does not change if the tire deflects (is flat on the bottom). A flat tire and a fully inflated tire on an automobile will complete the exact same number of revolutions when travelling a given distance. This is because even though the flat tire may appear to have a smaller radius than the inflated tire, the tire treads are the same length. And since the the entire tread must pass beneath the wheel exactly once during a revolution of the wheel (unless the tire slips on the wheel) two tires of similar manufacture will travel exactly the same distance per revolution reguardless of the tire's deformation.

Possibly because this seems a little counter intuitive they give this effective radius for tires a name; the rolling radius. And for most tires the rolling radius cannot be changed by any means short of adding or removing rubber. Old bias ply tires could be over-inflated, thinning and streaching the tire walls like a balloon.

So though it is true that uneven weight distribution can cause your robot to veer, the problem is not because the tires are flatter on one side. Uneven camber or poor wheel alighnment are likely candidates.

And though I really enjoyed reading your tire analysis, you would have gotten a better return for your time by using other navigation techniques to make your robot less dependant on odometry.

Message by: 4-Hers06 01/04/2007 01:29:54 GMT
I'm using a 56X26 and we have an engineer on our team and he checked the tires but the tire sizes 56X26 arn't the same!! . Check back later for a video of what our tirs doing!!
-David
Lego Invaders

Message by: 4-Hers06 01/04/2007 01:50:33 GMT
Here is the wheel movie like i told you!!

Message by: 4-Hers06 01/04/2007 01:51:59 GMT
Here is the wheel movie like i told you!!

Discussion: Mixing motors By: brickmasters491 11/22/2006 20:44:25 GMT
I thought I read somewhere a team can use any three motors. For example 2 NXT motors and one RCX motor. I can't find that reference. Is this legal and acceptable?

Message by: botzealots1105 11/22/2006 20:42:16 GMT
Though I can't point you to a reference the rules say 3 motors. The motors would have to be made by Lego. The rest is up to you. At a regional tournament last week my son saw several teams doing just that.I believe you need to be cognisant of the fact the NXT motors also include rotation sensors and you wouldn't want to unknowingly break the 3 rotation sensors rule.
Mike

Discussion: Power - NXT motor vs RCX Motor By: bluecheesyflamingos 12/20/2006 00:45:52 GMT
Here is another of those random questions I come up with. I know that internally the NXT motor is geared down but what it the comparison between a RCX motor and a NXT motor power-wise? Thanks, Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: CGMSC2605 12/12/2006 16:48:08 GMT
Carla

Philo has an excellent page comparing the NXT and RCX motors here

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 12/12/2006 17:45:54 GMT
Thanks! That had a ton us useful info! Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 12/19/2006 17:22:00 GMT
I have had a little time to really look over the page. I think I have my answer but could someone help my totally understand. I found the section where torque was listed. The rcx motors gave 2.25 and the nxt gave 16.7.

So what I think this means it the NXT has 7.4 times more power than the standard rcx motors we use. Is that right? Sorry for the dumb questions, Carla :)

Message by: fll-freak 12/20/2006 00:45:52 GMT
Carla,

Its not quite that simple. The values you quote are torque. Comparing torques is only usefull for a motors going at the same speed. Since the RCX motor is not geared down, you would expect it to have less torque. Think about how much extra 'power' or 'twist' an RCX bot gets when you gear it down. The philo data shows the NXT at 170 RPM and the RCX at 340. For two equaly efficient motors you would expect the RCX's torque to be 170/340 (0.5) one half of NXT. But in fact it is 2.25/16.7 or 0.135. This means that the NXT motor is a 'stronger' motor.

But where does this extra 'Omph' come from? One place is a better efficiency in larger motors. The other is a greater thrist for batteries!

-Skye

Folder: NXT Specific Questions 05/04/2007 16:02:33 GMT

Discussion: NXT taking time to think??? By: ShadowBots90 11/27/2006 21:12:59 GMT
Is anyone having this problem....
One of my NXT's seems to "think" between blocks...It slows up, it goes slow, and sometimes it even stops and takes a break before it continues it's program....
Very strange behavior. I've updated the firmware to 1.0.3, I've switched out the motors - and now I think I'll have the kids switch out the NXT itself -- it's either that or the program...

Any ideas?
Thanks,
Linda

Message by: fll-freak 09/18/2006 20:29:57 GMT
Are you able to distill the problem down to a test program you could post? Does the problem happen on different NXTs?

When you say 'slow down' are you refering to the the ramp up/down motor speed feature in the motor move block?

-Skye

Message by: ShadowBots90 09/18/2006 21:53:45 GMT
Thanks Skye - I am distilling:) - and I will keep you informed of my progress. No, it's not the ramp up or down. The 'bot will actually stop and think for a second or two, sometimes three before it moves on to the next block. It's very strange. It looks like it is either the program or the NXT itself.

In other words, it doesn't just go about it's business and run through the program. It pauses, moves painfully slow (with the motors set to 75% on turns). I've had the kids rebuild the chassis and I've checked it myself for anything rubbing or being too tight...it's a mystery. if I find it's the program, I will post it.
Linda:)

Message by: KaoticMentor 09/18/2006 22:52:54 GMT
From the way you were talking, it looks as though you are using the NXT-G programming language. I'm not sure if this would have anything to do with it, but it's another possible avenue of exploration.

Also, I guess I'm still not exactly sure what you mean by pauses... So after the robot finishes ANY instruction (not just motor control instructions) the robot simply sits there doing nothing for a few seconds, before progressing to the next command as normal?

The other thing to note is that the NXT motors run at less than half the speed as the RCX motors. This may be why it appears to be running "painfully slow". I found that I didn't have to gear down the motors at all for a decent speed robot.

Are they just running painfully slowly, or does it seem like the motors are running "weakly" (can you stop it easily with your hand?) as well?

Just some points I thought I'd bring up.

Glenn

Message by: ShadowBots90 09/19/2006 14:16:27 GMT
Thanks Skye - I am distilling:) - and I will keep you informed of my progress. No, it's not the ramp up or down. The 'bot will actually stop and think for a second or two, sometimes three before it moves on to the next block. It's very strange. It looks like it is either the program or the NXT itself.

In other words, it doesn't just go about it's business and run through the program. It pauses, moves painfully slow (with the motors set to 75% on turns). I've had the kids rebuild the chassis and I've checked it myself for anything rubbing or being too tight...it's a mystery. if I find it's the program, I will post it.
Linda:)

Message by: nanoknights216 09/21/2006 05:10:12 GMT
I did read a note somewhere that updating the firmware was causing some problems and was not recommended. "Somewhere" was probably a blog on the net.
Tammy W.

Message by: fll-freak 09/21/2006 12:51:36 GMT
The issue you are thinking about has now been resolved. The dreaded "clicking brick syndrome" has been fixed with a patch to NXT-G. All teams should use the "check for update" feature in NXT-G to visit the LEGO website to download and install the proper patch.

I do not think that this patch will correct the 'thinking' issue. One the surface this sounds very weird. Perhaps a bad program, a bad install, or a bad NXT.

-Skye

Message by: botzealots1105 09/27/2006 15:57:23 GMT
If you are using the "move" blocks and you set the "next action" to "brake" at the end of the block there will be a slight pause while the robot aligns the motors to the exact rotation you entered. The robot is putting on its brakes, if you set it to coast you may loose some accuracy but it shouldn't stop.

Message by: khakiGoo36 11/27/2006 21:12:59 GMT
I am experiencing this problem as well, and it does seem to be (have not completely confirmed it yet) related to "brake" versus "coast" at the end of a move block. The "thinking" behavior seems even more pronounced when a move block is doing a hard turn. It is definitely not battery related as I have seen it happen when on full charge.

Dave

Message by: fll-freak 10/09/2006 04:01:12 GMT
ShadowBots, Have you figured out the root problem yet?

-Skye

Message by: littlegreensquirts1592 10/21/2006 19:08:46 GMT
We recently started having the same problem on one program. After a turn in reverse the robot should continue straight in reverse, and sometimes it will just stop. If we leave it alone, a minute later, it will take off again. But it doesn't happen everytime. Happens maybe 25%.

Little Green Squirts.

Message by: fll-freak 10/21/2006 19:30:05 GMT
Any chance you could post the RBT file for us to look at?

-Skye

Message by: High Speed Robotics713 11/06/2006 00:52:07 GMT
Help!

Our team's NXT is now experiencing this same "robot thinking" problem. We have tried all sorts of alternatives - i.e. faster speeds/power, slower speeds/power additional maneuvers to avoid this problem and resorting to pushing by hand to get the NXT to move beyond this "stuck" position.

This problem happens at any time, there is no real pattern nor sequence of events that lead up to this problem.

This problem is causing major problems at this late date.

Any ideas/solutions will be appreciated.

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/06/2006 16:26:38 GMT
Batteries getting weak?? Just a guess, Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: fll-freak 11/06/2006 16:40:57 GMT
Somehow I do not think its battery level.

There have been several people reporting similar issues with the NXT. Icons that get skipped or programs that get hung. I can't imagine that they all are battery related. Of all the bad programs posted, I have not been able to reproduce the problem at home. This weekend I went to the LEGO store in Burlington MA, and purchased a paterry pack (I only have the retail kit) to try to prove this one way or the other.

-Skye

Message by: Brian001 11/06/2006 04:44:35 GMT
If you have to "push it", it sounds suspiciously like a Move or Motor block is stalling out just before it reaches its target angle. Does that make sense? Could it be that the robot has suffered some "friction forming event", and the increased friction is part of the issue?

--
Brian Davis

Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: fll-freak 11/27/2006 20:56:34 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ (UFAQ) before posting your questions. The UFAQ is the result of condensing the posting from the previous four seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions have likely already been answered. The UFAQ has been updated for this year's rule changes.

The UFAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the UFAQ at:

http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

Skye Sweeney
skye@fll-freak.com

Message by: NanoEagles6106 11/27/2006 20:54:40 GMT
Why is the Self-Assembly table piece so wide?

Message by: SMART 11/27/2006 20:56:34 GMT
Probably to make it difficult to navigate around.

- Peter

Discussion: Problems with NXT Mac SW By: Osage1845 10/10/2006 18:59:46 GMT
I have loaded the NXT sw on a number of eMACs at our schools computer lab. I know the system sw meets the minimum reqmts, however, the NXT sw acts inconsistently. Some of the challenge, build and programming windows in Robot Builder (left side of screen) come up blank. I also get error box soemtimes. It is not useable.

I know.....highly techincal description.....I'm at work and the MACs at the school where I volunteer.

Driver (sw not operator)issues? Memory Issues? Just plain too high of expectations for a MAC?? Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

Larry P.

Message by: brickmasters491 10/10/2006 18:59:46 GMT
You can expect a lot more from your Mac. I am using several different eMac's without any problems. They range from 800 MHz to 1.25 GHz with 512 MB SDRAM. I have 10.3.9. If you are running something older like 10.1 or 10.2 that may be your problem. You might have to reinstall the software with anti-virus software turned off. Or just reinstall the software.

Coach B

Discussion: Do the NXT motors really synchronize? By: StMichaels827 11/24/2006 15:18:05 GMT
Our team is very new (as is everybody) to the NXT way of doing things. One of the things we were excited about was the thought that the NXT motors actually synchronize themselves thus meaning there would be no drift. Based on some very preliminary testing, it would appear that the two motors, one on each wheel, do play better with each other than in the past but there still seems to be some drift. We are just trying to move straight for x number of degrees with a power level on each motor of 75. Are we missing something?

Thanks,
Lloyd O'Hara
StMichaels827

Message by: KaoticMentor 09/19/2006 02:03:55 GMT
Lloyd,

There is a great tutorial found here (www.fll-freak.com) that is a test of the robot's ability to drive straight. If you have the ability to look at a Quicktime movie, it's an excellent resource on the NXT. Just look for the "Drive Straight?" tutorial on the page.

This shows what was found after some testing!

Hope this helps,
-Glenn

Message by: fll-freak 09/19/2006 02:12:29 GMT
No, You are not missing anything significant.

The devil is in the details. In the RCX days, the motors were rotating at different speeds. This was due to countless factors. With NXT, the rotation speed error is greatly reduced. But... there are still other issues.

1) As good as the sync software is, it is not perfect. A small error early in a long travel will get magnified.

2) If one wheel is a bit bigger or even just slightly less round than the other you will get an error.

3) The sync software can't respond to sudden changes like pushing on a heavy object on one side of the bot.

4) Supply your own factors

-Skye

Message by: StMichaels827 09/19/2006 02:17:06 GMT
Thanks Skye

Message by: StMichaels827 09/19/2006 02:18:56 GMT
And Thanks Glenn. We'll get this stuff straight at some point.

Lloyd O'Hara

Message by: nanoknights216 09/21/2006 05:07:35 GMT
Is the motor sync active when using Robolab or only the nxt-g? Do we have to use a certain robolab command to start the motors to get it to sync?

Message by: nanoknights216 09/21/2006 05:07:56 GMT
Is the motor sync active when using Robolab or only the nxt-g? Do we have to use a certain robolab command to start the motors to get it to sync?
Tammy W., coach
nanoknights216

Message by: KaoticMentor 09/21/2006 12:15:29 GMT
In NXT-G, the motor sync algorithms are almost always turned on. I believe the exception to this is when you use the "motor" advanced command (found in the second pane of instructions on the left).

As of right now, Robolab does not support these 'drive straight' functions. However, because of the blinding speed of Robolab's computing, it is actually possible for a reasonably advanced programmer on your team to write a fair approximation of these algorithms themselves!

Hope this helps,
-Glenn

Message by: YottaToYocto 09/23/2006 02:23:04 GMT
Robolab programs are indeed fast and they are very compact as well. You can see an example 'go straight' program for the NXT here. But only use this as a comparison with the work of the "reasonably advanced programmer on your team". :-)

Message by: nanoknights216 09/25/2006 23:51:20 GMT
Lloyd--
I got an email from Scott Evans at FLL saying that it is fine to use the "go straight" program referenced above at competition, so long as your team acknowledges they didn't create it. He compared it to making use of a cool LEGO piece.

Even making use of it will require some technical expertise, though. :-)
Tammy

Message by: SMART 09/26/2006 21:55:45 GMT
That is interesting. But any reason not to challenge your team to write something themselves? They may come up with a similar, but not identical solution that they could fairly say was theirs.

I haven't tried it yet, but with rotation sensors built into the motors one would think it would be straightforward for a Robolab programmer with 2+ years of experience who understands sensors and containers to do this.

The reason this was always so difficult for teams with RCX was that they only had one rotation sensor to work with and even if they had two (which they can this year) they are severely limited by the input ports (only 3 and rotation sensor can't be combined with anything else) and also by the fact that rotation sensors are trick to mount well on the robot.

We don't have Robolab 2.9 yet, and the kids are really turned on by NXT-G (at least for the moment) so not sure if they'll want to use it or not.

- Peter

Message by: nanoknights216 09/27/2006 00:58:52 GMT
I don't know what if anything our team will do with the go straight code. Our team doesn't have anyone on it with more than about two weeks Robolab experience, and is being coached by an English major. Whether they could create a program to compensate for motor power on their own--or even if they'd want to--remains to be seen. If they did opt to take the "go straight" program instead of creating their own, I have no doubt that they will still have many challenges ahead to creatively solve. In any case, just looking at the code has helped me understand programming better--and hopefully I can help the kids understand better also.

Message by: Luther'sSeals1785 10/08/2006 02:08:17 GMT
Isn't there a mechinical solution to this?
Has anyone used a Dual Differenteral Drive? It uses two differenterals to go (almost) perfectley straight. It is a little complex to build, and takes up more space, but it's better then having a robot that curves unpredictably. It uses one motor to go straight, while the other motor makes it spin in place. You can find out how to make one in the book,
"Building Robots with Lego Mindstorms." Since the wheels are geared together, only one rotation sensor is neccesary.
Our team made a much more compact one then shown in the book, but we aren't using it, because It's a little hard on the motors, and NXT works almost as well. If we didn't have the NXT, we would be using it now.

Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #5 11/10/2006 20:20:08 GMT
The Mindstorms Mayhem team experimented with a dual differential drive a couple years ago. They came up with a very compact dual-differential system as well. It drove very straight with one motor. It also turned nicely with the other motor. The problem, however, was that there was a lot of "backlash" (slop) in the gear train due to the pair of differentials. Switching from forward to turning was not very consistent (comparing run A to run B) making it very difficult to get reliable missions. If the lego gears were fashioned to tighter tolerances, some of this could be reduced, but the team eventually decided that they couldn't build a sufficiently accurate dual-differential system.

It is possible that the solution your team came up with may have had less issues with backlash.

--ken
http://www.mayheminc.org

Message by: nanoknights216 10/17/2006 20:33:28 GMT
Can you explain what you mean by it being hard on the motors? I am wondering what we might be doing that is hard on motors without realizing it...
Tammy

Message by: fll-freak 10/17/2006 22:52:14 GMT
I do not follow you. There is nothing in this thread about being hard on motors! What were you refering to?

-Skye

Message by: quantumbots3207 10/21/2006 02:37:41 GMT
They were refering to what the Luther Seals said in the second to last sentence

Message by: Luther'sSeals1785 11/07/2006 20:56:48 GMT
Since only one motor is running at a time, the robot's motion is from only one motor, not the usual two, so you'll need a slower robot then planned.

It's somewhat like a two person bycicle with only one person pedaling.

Message by: pigmice2192 11/23/2006 20:11:12 GMT
When programming in robolab do the wheels still synchronize?
Greg

Message by: fll-freak 11/23/2006 22:10:35 GMT
Version 2.9.2 with the beta patch does offer some sync capability.
-Skye

Message by: botzealots1105 11/24/2006 15:18:05 GMT
The 2.9.2 beta wheel synch is a slave/master set up so it can only turn one way.It is not much use.
Mike

Discussion: What is this weird part? By: nanoknights216 12/03/2006 01:53:29 GMT
There is a part in the NXT kit that I can't figure out. It is labeled 4499435 and looks like a little steam locomotive. Does anyone know what it is used for? It doesn't google...
Tammy W.

Message by: Whizards 09/21/2006 18:36:41 GMT
That's the missile launcher! :) Well, I don't know the official name, but it goes with part 4225060.

My boss has a model with about 6 of them arranged like a machine gun, where it spins and shoots all 6 of them out. He likes to aim it at us. *laugh*

Errol
- Workshop Whizards
My FLL Rookie Coach Blog: http://www.ctworkshop.net/fll

Message by: nanoknights216 09/22/2006 07:39:16 GMT
AH. I imagine the kids probably would have figure that out on their own, huh! They had fun harpooning each other with it today! Thank you for solving my mystery--
tw
nanoknights

Message by: CCACrusaders3351 09/28/2006 20:19:56 GMT
I didn't know what it was my self until my 6 year old was looking at all the parts. He picked the 2 up and just put them together without giving it any thought! I guess I need to look at many of these parts thou his eyes.

Message by: pigmice2192 11/20/2006 19:58:03 GMT
Try knocking off the white atoms on the atom table with it, it might not be that practical but it shure is fun!!!!!!!!!!

Message by: nanoknights216 12/03/2006 01:53:29 GMT
Hello, Pigmice! Glad to see you are around again this year! (We saw your team at the Oregon State FLL last year.) The kids spent half a meeting shooting atoms off! Now, I think they are trying to find a way to shoot the refs...
Tammy
coach, nanoknights (last year: Homeschool Hound Dogs)

Discussion: Multiple Ultrasonic Senors - Interference? By: JARR174 11/27/2006 19:24:58 GMT
In the help section of the NXT-G software, under the Ultrasonic sensor (USS), there is a warning about "possible" interference with other USS's operating in the room. Has anyone had a chance to validate this. Obvious ramifications with two bots on a competition table at once. And I'm not fortunate enough to have more than one NXT bot at the time to test. Thanks for your responses.

Message by: zap85 09/24/2006 18:07:22 GMT
Our team tried out two robots and decided not to use the ultrasonic sensor. I don't think their testing was really conclusive, but they decided not to take the chance.

Doreen

Message by: LegoAces44 11/27/2006 19:24:58 GMT
Our team has done some testing with two Ultrasonic sensors and not seen significant interference problems. We noticed the warnings on the FL I&A and wonder if others have experienced specific problems. Have there been issues at competitions? We'll be conservative with our use of the sensor, but would like to employ this cool tool for several missions. Any best practice suggestions other than to keep it low on the robot? We'll post more quantified results of our evaluations as we generate them.

- Nano-Thomas

Discussion: How many NXT Program Slots are there? By: team_pluto 11/30/2006 16:37:08 GMT
We were wondering. If the RCX have 5 program slots. How many program slots does the NXT have?

Message by: fll-freak 09/24/2006 14:58:44 GMT
The NXT does not have slots. You get to name your program as you download it. The NXT then provides a way of selecting the program you want to run by name. Therefore you can have as many programs as memory will allow.

-Skye

Message by: zap85 09/24/2006 18:10:02 GMT
Is there a quick way of accessing different programs, though? I haven't used the NXT much yet, and my kids are quite concerned that it will take a long time to punch through the on-brick menus to access various programs. They are thinking of using the other buttons on the NXT to trigger different portions of a single program. Are there other possibilities?

Doreen

Message by: fll-freak 09/24/2006 19:03:59 GMT
It is not too difficult to pick the right program, but it does take more time than on the RCX. Using the front panel buttons to select sections of one program is a great idea. Not only is it faster, but it will take MUCH less memory than the same programs saved individualy. My experiement in this area showed 3 individual programs talink 76K and combined it took just 20K.

-Skye

Message by: R2-D2 Firedroids 402 09/30/2006 20:05:08 GMT
Can you point me in the right direction to learn how to go about using the NXT front panel buttons to select sections of a program? Other than the Help function in the program itself and the excellent video tutorials on basic and advanced beginner programming at ORTOP and in your site, I can not find any references on some of those fancier functions. I'm anxiously awaiting for some NXT books to be published but they are not due until January.

Paul Bresnan
R2-D2 Firedroids
Team 402

Message by: fll-freak 09/30/2006 20:11:48 GMT
b using the NXT front panel buttons to select sections of a program

I am not sure that you can using the front panel. You can from inside NXT-G.

-Skye

Message by: R2-D2 Firedroids 402 10/01/2006 03:07:33 GMT
I was not clear. I meant how to program the front panel buttons from inside NXT-G.

Paul

Message by: fll-freak 10/01/2006 04:09:16 GMT
Here is a sample.

-Skye

Message by: scientific wierdoes 11/27/2006 01:10:44 GMT
We can not access all the memory indicated. Why?

Message by: fll-freak 11/27/2006 01:45:18 GMT
What is indicated? Add how do you know that you can't access all of it?

-Skye

Message by: Whizards 11/29/2006 22:38:21 GMT
I made this page to show how to track memory. Does it help?

http://www.ctworkshop.net/fll/?page_id=20

- Errol

Message by: Brian001 11/29/2006 23:59:41 GMT
Nice, although you *can* delete those things ending in ".sys". The first is a configuration file that gets recreated upon power-on if it's missing (holds, if memory serves, the time until power-off, etc.). RGPReader is the program that allows the "on brick programming" option - delete the file, and you can't use the on-brick programming from the front panel buttons, but that's it. All these can be restored by reloading the firmware if you want them back.

--
Brian Davis

Message by: Whizards 11/30/2006 16:37:08 GMT
Oh Cool, thanks. I had no idea what some of those files did. :)

Discussion: NXT Oddity: Motor Positioning By: MindStormTroopers4 12/06/2006 20:02:58 GMT
With the RCX you were always able to switch the wires around to change the direction in which the motor actually spins when the program thinks its going forward. This helped because it didn*t matter which way you installed the motors in the drive train; if forward ended up being backwards, you switched the cables.

With NXT, the cables only go into the motor one way. As far as I see, unless you want to be telling the robot in the program to go backward when you mean forwards, you have to orient the motors a specific way in the robot (which is a pain). Is there any other way to switch the motor direction that I am missing (such as in the firmware), because this seems like a huge flaw.

-Michael (student team member of the MindStormTroopers)

Message by: fll-freak 09/25/2006 18:49:15 GMT
There does not appear to be a way in NXT-G to logicaly reverse a motor. If you have a design that requires one motor to turn one way and the second motor to turn the other way to go straight you are stuck. Not only that, but you then lose the ability to motor sync.

The only workaround is to create a few properly names MyBlocks that have the robot go foward, backward, and turn using the simpler single motor icon.

-Skye

Message by: CGMSC2605 09/25/2006 21:20:13 GMT
In the RIS software there was a "global set motor direction" command. This command let you design the robot with the motors facing any direction, and then place the wires any way you wanted. You then used the "global set direction" block to tell the software which direction each motor should rotate when you used the up and down arrows on the motor control block.

Is there an equivalent global block in the NXT software?

Message by: fll-freak 09/25/2006 21:24:50 GMT
Not that I have found.
-Skye

Message by: nanoknights216 09/25/2006 23:46:44 GMT
Is it possible to edit the blocks in robolab? Maybe using Front Panel? What is the Front Panel for, anyway? I pulled up a block on it, but couldn't make heads or tails of what it said...

Tammy

Message by: MindStormTroopers4 09/26/2006 01:55:54 GMT
Thanks for the confirmation. At least I know I*m not missing anything.

I don*t have the motors oriented opposite from each other though. The problem is that I have both the motors 'upside-down' (for structural reasons). This makes it so that you have to tell both of them to go backwards in the program to make the robot drive forward.

Is there something I*m missing conceptually? Or do we all just have to build our robots so that the motors are 'right side up'?

-Michael (MindStormTroopers team member)

Message by: zap85 09/26/2006 03:08:05 GMT
I just read an interesting idea for this dilemma in the blogs on www.hightechkids.org. Check out the Mindstorms NXT blog, and find the entry called Parameterized NXT-G Code.

Doreen

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 19:59:18 GMT
You just have to stop thinking of the arrows as meaning forwards or backwards. I force my team to use the words "Up" and "Down" for describing rotation direction for the motors. These words at least relate to the direction the arrow is pointing where as forward and backward are totally meaningless. There is a picture in the Motor help that shows how the arrows relate to rotation direction. Try to have your team think in those terms.

Another possibility is to put a MyBlocks wrapper around your move and motor commands. It could invert the motor direction for you. Or you could write separate MyBlocks for forwards, backwards, left and right.

My team use variables for motor polarity, wheel diameter and wheelbase. They have Drive and Turn Myblocks that use this information to convert travel distances and heading changes into duration and direction for Move blocks. The result is that their mission programs work for almost any differential steer robot. All you have to change is the values of three variables.

Message by: quantumbots3207 09/26/2006 23:29:46 GMT
The front panal in robolab is for data-logging and stuff like that.

Message by: Luther'sSeals1785 10/10/2006 19:32:20 GMT
If you have the motors turn different directions to go foward, couldn't you use the steering control at the bottom left hand corner by making the little arrow go all the way left, or all the way right? It might be a little confusing, but wouldn't that work?

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 06:35:18 GMT
I built a robot where the motors had to spin in opposite directions to go straight. Using the steering control I could make the robot travel forwards and backwards, but I couldn't make it turn very well. I strongly recommend against building such a robot if you are using NXT-G.

Message by: Brian001 12/06/2006 17:22:06 GMT
What exactly was the problem? I would think a spin turn would be rather easy with the motors spinning in opposite directions: just set the Move block to straight and the robot would spin. Are the turns irregular?

--
Brian Davis

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 19:37:10 GMT
Spin turns worked fine. But it was difficult to do anything other than a spin turn or go straight. This was on a skid steer robot and I wanted a more gradual turn for use in line following. I ended up using the motor commands.

Actually I started out using the motor commands and was just trying out the move command to see if I could get it to work. Most of my NXT work is directed towards updating "Building LEGO Robots for FLL" (BLRFLL). I'm afraid my team has suffered somewhat because of this. But hey, if I'm willing to share my NXT's they should be willing to share their coach.

The updated BLRFLL is going to include a lengthy discussion of the steering parameter. A discussion of Brake vs Coast and its effect on multiple move or motor commands is probably also needed. Would you like to consult Brian?

Message by: botzealots1105 10/12/2006 03:37:34 GMT
Just change your mind as to what the "front" of the robot is.

Message by: tatorbots1936 10/14/2006 03:18:18 GMT
Wouldn't you experience the same problem when using a gear train with an odd number of gears?

Shouldn't 'direction' be thought of in terms of the motor and not of the vehicle?

Maybe the real flaw is in the names "forward" and "backward".

DL

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 20:02:58 GMT
We had a big debate during the MDP about a more useful terminology for describing the motor rotation direction. I use the convention of describing motor direction as "Up" or "Down". At least that can be tied to the controls used to adjust the parameter. Forward and Backward are completely meaningless and very confusing.

Discussion: Ultrasonic sensor. By: quantumbots3207 09/25/2006 21:17:19 GMT
Our team read in the coach's handbook that you are not allowed to use a ultrasonic sensor for the NXT. Online in the rules section it says you can use the ultrasonic sensor. If anybody knows if you can or can not use the ultrasonic sensor feel free to respond.

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 09/25/2006 21:17:19 GMT
Yes you can use one ultrasonic sensor. Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Discussion: Bluetooth Problems By: northandover486 11/16/2006 17:08:31 GMT
We are having a lot of trouble with the bluetooth connection to the NXT. Basically, it occassionaly connects but after using it (maybe once) it disconnects and will not communicate anymore. We are using a Belkin USB Bluetooth adapter and windows XP.

Any ideas?

Peter

Message by: quantumbots3207 09/26/2006 00:36:17 GMT
We are having the same troubles. We are also using a Belkin adapter and are having troubles with it. I got it connected through the Bluetooth menu on the NXT. Hope this helps.

Message by: RoboCoho2246 10/01/2006 20:03:49 GMT
We are having the same problems. On one laptop with built-in Bluetooth, everything works fine. The other laptop, using a Targus bluetooth USB adapter that came with a bluetooth mouse, does not want to connect. It sees the NXT, but will not connect to it. I have been through "My Bluetooth Places" setup a dozen times. Arrgh. Any ideas?

Message by: ROBOMONKEYS1286 10/02/2006 14:31:35 GMT
IT SEEMS WE ALL SHARE THIS ISSUE. WE GOT OURS TO WORK MOST OF THE TIME WITH OUR DESKTOP BUT THE LAPTOP JUST DOES NOTSTAY CONNECTED. MY GUESS IS TO TRY A ANOTHER ADAPTER

Message by: CGMSC2605 10/03/2006 00:05:38 GMT
Is it possible that the difference is in the USB ports being used to run the bluetooth? I believe there are two kinds of USB ports, low power that can supply ~50mA of current and high power that can provide 100mA or more of current. Since the bluetooth is a transmitter perhaps it is too weak, or marginal, when plugged into a low power USB port.

I think it is interesting that the desktop computer works but the laptop does not.

Another possibility is that the computer's "power saving" settings are turning off power to the USB port when you don't want it to.

Message by: piecemakers281 10/12/2006 03:19:19 GMT
I had a similar problem using D-link bluetooth adapter. I solved it by uninstalling the D-link driver software so that Windows XP drivers load automatically. It seems that NXT-G likes the Windows drivers better than D-link's.

Message by: redrobots2924 10/13/2006 01:26:40 GMT
I just received a D-Link adapter in the mail today and I can't get it to recognize the NXT at all. I loaded the D-Link driver but I don't understand how uninstalling the D-Link driver will fix it. Where are the Windows XP drivers located? Thanks for any help.

Phil
Coach - Red Robots

Message by: redrobots2924 10/13/2006 02:59:55 GMT
Sorry for lack of patience before posting. I figured it out. I uninstalled the driver, restarted NXT-G and it picked it up. Thanks for the recommendation to fix the issue.

Phil

Message by: ItsyBitsyRobot3153 10/13/2006 18:37:34 GMT
My bluetooth was working fine on my laptop until today. Now it won't connect. I've tried a dozen different things. No response. Anyone else have this problem?

Message by: LaSalle118 10/13/2006 20:38:45 GMT
It seems that periodically you have to uninstall the driver and reinstall it so the NXT-G can set up the connection from start. I have not tracked down the problem but it has been working for me. Anytime the NXT-G does not connect, I uninstall the driver, let windows refind the driver and then NXT-G communicates with the NXT again.

Dave

Message by: RoboVikings 10/21/2006 05:44:40 GMT
This is aggravating.

I've found that you have turn everything off.
Restart computer with bt dongle connected
Start NXT-G
Start NXT brick
Be sure BT is on on brick
Scan, then connect

Then sometime later you may lose connectivity. Pretty ridiculous.

Message by: Legooners2511 11/16/2006 05:54:38 GMT
We've just recently tried Bluetooth again using a Targus ACB10US. While it's been frustrating, I came across a post somewhere else that has made it much more reliable and useful.
1) It suggested removing all the communication interfaces listed by an NXT Scan. Apparently the problem with the software is when more than one interface listed.
2) Then re-scan so that only the Bluetooth interface is listed.
3) Highlight the Bluetooth interface and press Connect
4) Then when you press OK to send the Passkey to the NXT, be prepared to acknowledge the Passkey response on the NXT immediately.

We've found that until either the NXT or the computer are powered off that Bluetooth works consistently, making testing and experimenting much more effective. Powering either device back on requires going through these steps to Pair the devices together again.

BTW, we're back to using the Targus drivers again too.

Message by: Brian001 11/16/2006 16:47:58 GMT
This just still seems... wrong to me. I'm running off a OSX Powerbook with built-in BT, and have 19 different connections list, for about a dozen different NXT bricks... and I've yet to have any such problem. So clearly, there are at least some platform/driver combinations that work extremely well. I'm glad it's now partially useful for you, but I really hope to find a better solution.

In order to find a better solution... has anyone else here had my experience? Easy to use flawless BT connections? If so, please let us know exactly what HW and SW you are using.

--
Brian Davis

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/16/2006 17:08:31 GMT
I don't think you are going to find anyone with a flawless connection. It seems everyone is having problems, Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Discussion: NXT not behaving By: TeamNemo 11/06/2006 05:12:34 GMT
Today, when we tried to program our NXT brick, the "Move Block" set to "indefinitely" no longer works. The motors run for one rotation and then shut off instead of running indefinitely. I have tried a test program with one indefinite move block, using two different computers and even reloaded the NXT firmware and I get the same results.

We've had the NXT for 6 weeks now and this is the first time this problem has occured. Any ideas?

Message by: fll-freak 09/27/2006 14:04:32 GMT
Did you try to reset the NXT using the tiny hidden button?

-Skye

Message by: Veribots113 09/28/2006 03:53:16 GMT
This can happen if you do not have "wait for completion" or some other form of wait. The NXT program ends and the robots stops.

Message by: TeamNemo 09/28/2006 05:09:05 GMT
Thanks Guys,
I used both your suggestions, and it seem to be working correctly now. I know I should have done the reset and the wait for block one at a time, but at least we're back up and running.

Message by: tatorbots1936 10/06/2006 21:26:33 GMT
Doesn't the RCX do the reverse? That is the motor would go on forever unless you explicitly stopped it.

Message by: octobots566 10/10/2006 03:51:42 GMT
After some strange operations at practice today, I've spent some time tonight with our team's NXT. I did a simple program with a move block going straight for several rotations. Then a wait for 5 seconds. Then a move block set to turn for 180 degrees followed by another wait for 5 seconds and then another straight for several rotations.

When I test this program the turn step seems to get skipped. It runs for the first rotations then pauses for about 10 seconds and goes straight again.

I've done a firm reset and reinstalled the firmware. Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Ken P.

Message by: fll-freak 10/10/2006 03:57:16 GMT
Post your program for us to look at.

-Skye

Message by: octobots566 10/10/2006 04:10:21 GMT
Here's the test program.

Message by: fll-freak 10/10/2006 12:46:49 GMT
Sorry, but the file you uploaded will not display. It is simply an html wrapper around a png graphic file that you did not upload. It would be much better to find the "rbt" file for the program and upload that.

-Skye

Message by: tatorbots1936 10/10/2006 14:02:01 GMT
Unable to read your program. If I were to guess, I'd say that you may not have enough power to perform the turn. Check the power setting and also the battery level.

Message by: octobots566 10/10/2006 21:39:04 GMT
Here's the rbt file. Even with the robot in my hand and the wheels turning in air, it doesn't execute the turn step???

Message by: tatorbots1936 10/10/2006 23:47:43 GMT
most likely culprit:
Duration = 129,600 degrees.

Message by: octobots566 10/11/2006 00:34:38 GMT
Ah, posted the wrong edition. Tried 120, 180, 360 degrees with no success. Reset it and downloaded the firmware yet again. Then reloaded the program...success?! Hope this was a fluke!

Thanks to all for suggestions. Anyone have a reply to my question about rotation sensing during turns (topic: NXT turns)

kp

Message by: usa2226 11/03/2006 04:53:21 GMT
I am having the same problem with the NXT skipping a turn command. We've run it several times. It always does the first turn going forward, but does not always do the turn coming back to base.

Message by: tatorbots1936 11/03/2006 05:44:41 GMT
Is the battery low enough not to work at 62% power ( the 2nd turn)?

Message by: usa2226 11/04/2006 03:22:41 GMT
The indicator on the screen shows that it's fully charged. The program has a turn early in the program that it doesn't ever skip so I don't think it's a battery problem.

Message by: tatorbots1936 11/04/2006 03:44:26 GMT
Yes but that first turn is set at 75% power where the second turn is at 62% - hence - the reason why I asked if it was a battery problem. Still 62% is quite high so I doubt that its related.

Message by: usa2226 11/06/2006 05:12:34 GMT
I could see your point if it was struggling to do the command, but it skips it without a beat.

Coach of 'United Scientists in Action"

Discussion: Inconsistent Ultrasonic Sensor Performance By: Lakota Ridge Micromonsters3781 12/06/2006 21:24:03 GMT
We are seeing inconsistent behavior with the Ultrasonic Sensor on our NXT. Our team is using the ultrasonic sensor in a program where they start with a "Move block" (set for B,C straight forward for unlimited rotations), and then use a "Wait for Ultrasonic Sensor block" (set to <10") to start a turn.

Sometimes when the program is started, it works great, with the robot moving straight foward until it approaches the field border, and going into the turn. Many other times, however, as soon as the program is started, it turns immediately.

We thought that maybe it was picking up the side border, so we tested it on the floor but got the same results. One child thought that it was angled down enough to sometimes see the ground in front of the robot, so they angled it to make sure it was level, but had the same result. I had the children switch the connecting cables, but this did not help. We only have one ultrasonic sensor, so we can't swap it out.

If the robot is powered off for several minutes and then turned back on, it seems to work correctly the first time, but this may be a coincidence.

I have searched the Net for info on this and come up empty. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what could cause this behavior? The program seems simple enough, but as we are new with the NXT, I wondered: Is there a trick to using the "Wait for Ultrasonic" blocks? Has anyone else seen this?

Message by: fll-freak 09/27/2006 23:06:34 GMT
I have not played with the US sensor much.

You have already done the two things that came to my mind: angle up the sensor, and make sure its not seing something else.

Perhaps others will have more experience to help you on your way, but in the mean time, perhaps another experiment might shed some light (sound?).

Perhaps you could read the US distance and place it into a variable. Use the variable to do your WaitFor action. If your team has the ability to write this program, then you would be able to look at the variable that caused the trip (last one saved to the variable). Display this to the screen. This might tell you something about the problem.

If it is zero, then I would guess that perhaps the US did not get a return echo or it did not get initialized properly.

I would be very interested in hearing your results.

-Skye

Message by: Bluelightning1381 09/28/2006 00:03:35 GMT
I thought we were not allowed to use the ultra-sonic sensor in the challenge.

Message by: fll-freak 09/28/2006 00:46:10 GMT
There has been conflicting information from FIRST. The last update was that the US was allowed. That is also the way it is stated in the official rules.

-Skye

Message by: northandover486 09/28/2006 16:48:51 GMT
Two things come to mind.

1) You should wirte the value to the NXT display and see what is happening (zero value etc...)

2) If the signal is noisy - you could take several readings and use the median value.

We are also interested in using the US sensor - let us know what happens

Thanks,
Peter

Message by: Lakota Ridge Micromonsters3781 09/28/2006 17:46:16 GMT
Thanks for all of the suggestions. We meet tomorrow night, and I will have them try writing the value and see if we can capture what is happening. I will let you know.

On the subject of use, FLL Rule 8 does allow NXT teams the use of one Ultrasonic sensor. I was worried by the warning in the NXT manual that 2 or more US's in a room would interfere with one another, so I sent a question to the Q&A @ FLL. The reply I got said that they had played with two of them and could not get them to interfere with one another, but if teams were concerned they should use other methods.

Thanks again for the advice! Chris

Message by: CCACrusaders3351 09/28/2006 20:52:12 GMT
This brings up a question I was wondering... I thought we might have issues using US looking for the 8' wall because our 4x8' sheet is about 3/8 too long. I have been placing the mat in the base corner. Then there is 3/8 extra at the far end. Should I cut the extra 3/8 off the 4x8 sheet?

Message by: fll-freak 09/28/2006 21:41:18 GMT
There is not such thing as an official table. Every table is different. Everyone should be aware that competition tables are not highly machined precision devices. They are made by volunteers sometimes the night before. My first competition we had to be careful with the borders as the paint was still tacky!

What would be an ideal to shoot for is to be able to run on a wide variety of tables of random poor construction!

Now your 3/8 is perhaps outside the normal range. You might consider an adjustment.

-Skye

Message by: LaSalle118 09/29/2006 05:26:26 GMT
You could try reading the US as the first command to start it before you actually use it. When you say it works the first time and not the second time, it sounds like it keeps the last reading and this is why it does not work after the first time. I have not tried this yet and this may not work, it is just a thought.

Dave

Message by: Lakota Ridge Micromonsters3781 10/02/2006 01:52:06 GMT
Thanks again everyone!

Here is an update on what we found. We set up the program to write the US reading to the NXT display and put a 2 second time delay in it so we could see what it was reading before it actually went into motion. We noticed that sometimes the reading was rock steady, and sometimes it was kind of flashing back and forth between different readings. As you would expect, when the erratic readings were being read, the program did not work right.

We then took the motors out of the picture and slowly backed the robot away from the far wall by hand, watching the US reading on the display. It read nicely in 1 " increments all the way back to 72-73". Then it would either jump right to 100" (full range of the sensor) or get that erratic reading again. I am not sure if all of the US sensors are like this or if it is just ours, but the reading seemed to lose accuracy past 70".

As it turns out, the East edge of base is ~77" from the east wall. They solved the problem by leaving base for a certain distance and then using the ultrasonic sensor.

When we found this problem, they were just testing the new NXT's capabilities, and solving some challenges I gave them. Now that our models are built and on the field, the point is moot. There is no clear shot > 70" from base. ;-)

Thanks again for the suggestions and help!

Chris

Message by: Florida_Moderator 10/04/2006 00:26:24 GMT
One more thing to look at; one of our US was erratic also. Turned out to have gotten to friendly with the cat. One of the eyes had cat fur in it. When the fur was moving around, the sensor acted funny. They are finicky (the sensors, not the cats.)

Message by: pigmice2192 11/23/2006 20:07:44 GMT
Our team has had many difficulties with the US sensor and eventually decided to navigate using walls and light sensors like an rcx.
Greg

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 21:24:03 GMT
I would be careful using a wait for block with the ultrasonic sensor. All you need is one bad reading, maybe even an echo off of your hand as you pull it away, and the block is done.

Engineers work with all kinds of sensors. Some are rock solid always trustworthy, and others need to be used more carefully. In the NXT realm I would place the motor rotation data as being very trustworthy, the light sensor as fairly trustworthy, the standoff sensor as something I wouldn't trust completely, and the sound sensor as almost useless.

Does that mean you can't use the ultrasonic sensor. No, of course you can. But you may want to filter the data. This could be done by simple averaging. You can get better data by averaging and removing outliers (if a reading is much different than the average you throw it away instead of using it to compute an average.

Sometimes a more effective filtering is to compare a value against an expected range. When you want to use the distance information you probably expect the value to fall within a certain range. Write a myblock that compares the reading against this range and only returns a distance it thinks is valid.

Discussion: How to rename the NXT By: nanoheels3602 10/02/2006 00:24:09 GMT
I can't seem to rename my NXT. The NXT is connected and otherwise working fine, but when I type a new name into the "Name" field on the NXT window and press enter, or the little elbowed-arrow button beside the field, it always reverts back to "NXT". Any suggestions? We're using the Education NXT on Mac OS, firmare v1.01.

Message by: fll-freak 10/01/2006 23:20:41 GMT
I have had difficulty changing the name as well. Sometimes it would work, other times it would not. For some reason it always works with my son around and rarely when I am alone. So, ... for the cost of an airline ticket, I'll send you my son!

-Skye

Message by: nanoheels3602 10/02/2006 00:24:09 GMT
Ahh.. the old child-out-of-range bug. I'll call my son over and try again.

Discussion: Help with the NXT By: lego125 10/04/2006 03:58:30 GMT
As you all know, the NXT is new and not too much is known about it. The old robot was around for years and you could find research about it anywhere. Does anyone know some resources we could use to help us come up with a design or at least to get a better understanding of the new Robot?

Sincerely,
The Scott Lego team

Message by: zap85 10/03/2006 02:53:20 GMT
Our team looked at these robots for design ideas. Only Goliath has instructions, the others are just pictures to give you ideas.

"FLL Rover" http://mindstorms.lego.com/MeetMDP/BBonahoom.aspx

"JennToo" http://mindstorms.lego.com/MeetMDP/BDavis.aspx

Goliath II http://mynxt.matthiaspaulscholz.eu/robots/goliathII/index.html

--Doreen

Message by: YottaToYocto 10/04/2006 01:38:09 GMT
LEGO Ed West has building instructions for JennToo and others:

http://www.legoedwest.com/page.php?19

The wealth of NXT information available is nothing short of amazing. An internet search will turn up plenty of others. A couple of blogs you might want to check out are:

http://thenxtstep.blogspot.com/
http://nxtasy.org/

Happy building!

Message by: YottaToYocto 10/04/2006 03:58:30 GMT
One more link worth mentioning - the LEGO Education site recently posted the building instructions for all of the models that come with the retail version of the NXT:

http://www.legoeducation.info/nxt/building-guides/

This is great stuff for those of us who purchased (multiple copies of) the educational version.

Discussion: NXT Turns By: octobots566 11/04/2006 05:57:33 GMT
When using the turn function in a Move block, are the rotation sensors in both motors measuring the turn? I was asked that by a team member and didn't know the answer.

As I understand it, setting the slider fully to one side does a turn in place which I think runs the motors in opposite directions. In this case both should rotate the same amount. But in the other settings which creat more of a curve, the motors won't rotate the same amount. So which motor/sensor is the setting applied to?

Thanks,

Ken P.
Five Oaks Octobots

Message by: octobots566 10/12/2006 03:43:11 GMT
In observing our robot running with various settings for the rotation sensor, we're finding wide variation in the actual degrees of rotation. When set to 90 degrees, the motor turns well over 360 degrees. Is the accuracy below one revolution suspect? Anyone else having a similar issue?

Cheers,

Ken P.
Five Oaks Octobots

Message by: fll-freak 10/12/2006 04:15:01 GMT
I am confused by this question and may need have it all wrong.

The motor move icon takes a distance in either rotations or degrees as an input. This is the amount the wheel will rotate. The distance traveled is 2*pi*r per 360 degrees. Asking for 90 degrees will therefore only allow the robot to travel 1/4 wheel revolution. When asking for a turn, the degrees still refer to the amount the wheel will rotate not the change in heading of the robot. You will have to use trial and error to learn the right number of wheel rotations to get the robot to turn 90 degrees.

-Skye

Message by: octobots566 10/15/2006 02:54:05 GMT
Skye,

Let me try to be a little clearer...

I understand that the rotation sensor just measures the number or degrees the wheel rotates which cannot be directly related to the turn angle. My original question had to do with the rotation settings in the move block.

Going straight, with two motors set in the same move block both rotation sensors should measure the same number of rotations, so having a single setting for rotation in the move block makes sense.

My question is what happens when you adjust the slider in the move block to make a turn? By necessity one motor has to rotate more than the other. But there is only a single setting for the rotation sensor value in a move block which controls both motors/rotation sensors. So what is this value controling: the outer motor/sensor, inner motor/sensor or some sort of relation between the two rotation sensors?

My second question has to do with rotation sensor accuracy. I did a simple move block to go straight for various degrees of rotation and then stop. I marked each wheel and ran this with a variety of settings from 30 degrees to 900 degrees. The motors always ran for at least 360 degrees, no matter the setting. Is this typical?

Thanks as always.

Ken P.
Five Oaks Team 566

Message by: fll-freak 10/15/2006 03:07:05 GMT
Ok, Now I got the question!

My guess is that the reason you ar going at least one full turn is that you do not have "brake" set for the final action. Its a radio button. Coast allows the motors to keep turning with their own momentum. Brake does just what it sounds like.

As for what encoder or encoders is used when the slider is not centered, I have no idea. As I tell my kids "Sounds like a great research project!".

I have given up using NXT-G. I have always been a RoboLab fan. What little time I have these days has been spent bonding with the new version. I have a major milestone at work this week. With that done, I should have some more free time to explore stuff like this.

-Skye

Message by: octobots566 10/15/2006 03:36:32 GMT
Skye,

Thanks for the reply. I've tried it both with the next action as coast and brake. It is worse with coast but the results I mentioned are with it set to brake!

I'm in the same boat, lots of RCX experience and stuff...no NXT and only a tiny bit of time to play with it when the team isn't doing important work!

Cheers,

Ken

Message by: fll-freak 10/15/2006 04:12:11 GMT
Funny, in my video tutorials I used the motor to control the actuator at much less than 360 turns. I will try to go back and revisit this issue.

-Skye

Message by: tatorbots1936 10/16/2006 21:37:53 GMT
"As for what encoder or encoders is used when the slider is not centered, "

Maybe NXT should be enhanced in a future release to show two distance fields ( one for each motor ).

Message by: botzealots1105 10/16/2006 02:17:33 GMT
When we set the move block for 90 degrees the motor rotates 90 degrees or 1/4 rotation. We are assuming that you have not geared the motors down or up and are working directly from the motor output. Good luck.

Message by: DarkMatter747 10/17/2006 15:12:09 GMT
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but ....

Do you have "degrees" selected in the Move Block and not "rotations"? If you select rotations, the motor output shaft would always rotate at least 360 degrees (or one rotation).

Message by: octobots566 10/21/2006 02:39:41 GMT
No question is dumb around here! Degrees was selected and I tried both coast and brake settings. The operation seems rather inconcsistent???

Message by: Brian001 10/22/2006 00:18:28 GMT
Can you post a short rbt file that shows this behavior?

--
Brian Davis

Message by: robotechies4005 10/30/2006 01:29:40 GMT
Hi

We are a rookie team. We are having unpredictability issues with turning as well. I would appreciate if you could summarize your experience with turning here.

We have tried to program turning with one block where the B and C motors both turn and we use the steering mechanism in the block to make it turn.

We also tried having two parallel blocks where we turn two motors in reverse directions.

What we find is our programs work very unpredictably, mostly when we are turning. Either we turn too much or too little (and some times just right!).

What are we doing wrong?

Manish

Message by: fll-freak 10/30/2006 02:20:36 GMT
Its impossible to tell from your short description. I would offer this as a possibility.

If you are doing a turn where one motor goes forward and the other in reverse you will half your accuracy. This is because you are turning twice as fast. Try stopping one motor and turning the other on at a reduced speed. Make sure you terminate the turn by using the rotation sensor and not time.

-Skye

Message by: zap85 10/30/2006 14:34:39 GMT
Hi Manish, what the kids on our team have discovered is that navigation issues (going straight and making reliable turns) are often related to the design of the robot. For example, you'll have a lot of trouble making reliable turns if your robot has a caster wheel (a third wheel that is not fixed in place but which can spin around). So your team might want to think about mechanical design issues, or post again with a description of your bot. It might not be a programming problem at all.

Doreen

Message by: usa2226 11/03/2006 03:59:00 GMT
We have a problem with the nxt sometimes skipping out turn command. We run the same program several times and sometimes it does the turns and other times it skips it.

team usa

Message by: fll-freak 11/03/2006 13:47:08 GMT
I would love it if you could post your program or at least email it to me (skye@fll-freak.com) to look at. You are not the first with this problem, but I have not been able to duplicate it.

-Skye

Message by: usa2226 11/04/2006 03:26:28 GMT
The program is attached.

Message by: usa2226 11/04/2006 04:22:59 GMT
The program is attached.

Message by: usa2226 11/04/2006 05:57:33 GMT
The program is attached.

Message by: robotechies4005 11/03/2006 20:44:08 GMT
Folks thanks for the feedback,

We have a robot design with 4 wheels where 2 front wheels use motors. It is a simple design with no gears or any thing.

Skye: We tried both the approaches (i.e. turning 1 motor and turning 2 in reverse - we found unpredictability with both approaches. )

We are asking the motors to turn by a certain degrees (or rotations for that matter. ) and not by time. I believe that is what you mean by saying use "rotation sensor". We expect the motor to turn 100 degrees when we program it for 100 degrees, hwoever , the observation is it turns more or less.

I do not believe it is an error in programming, I am not sure if we have a feedback mechanism available to us that we are not using. Please comment.

Thanks

Manish

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/03/2006 20:51:17 GMT
This may not be on the right track but do all 4 wheels have the black rubber on them? Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: fll-freak 11/03/2006 21:17:17 GMT
Carla may have the solution in her post that follows. A "simple design" with four tired wheels will be very stable driving forwards and will NOT want to turn with anykind of reliability. Friction is not a repeatable process. Each turn, the friction gods roll their dice to decide how your robot will act. Not something you want to trust to!

Peel the tires of the non driving wheels and get them close to the rear axle. Think how stable a drag racer is with its huge wheel base and how manueverable a sports car is with a short base.

If this does not seem to fix things, try posting a photo of the beast for us to comment on.

-Skye

Discussion: NXT not shipping until Nov24 By: CAVA6068 10/12/2006 09:04:08 GMT
Does anyone know if the retail NXT is pretty much the same as the FLL NXT ? Ours will not ship until Nov24 so I thought I'd go buy one now & try to return the FLL once we get it.

Message by: Randazzo1589 10/12/2006 00:56:05 GMT
Yes, basically identical.
Jennifer
Randazzo

Message by: fll-freak 10/12/2006 02:47:43 GMT
Retail kit does not have the recharable battery, has a very slightly different version of NXT-G, RCX/NXT adapter cables, and a slightly different assortment of parts.

-Skye

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 10/12/2006 02:55:29 GMT
My team has one of each and you want the FLL one. It has more pieces with it. Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: YottaToYocto 10/12/2006 09:04:08 GMT
Not to get too technical but the retail version contains 577 pieces (according to the LEGO Shop at Home site) and the education version contains 431 pieces (according the LEGO Education site). The best deal is clearly the robot set through FLL, since you get the NXT-G software, rechargeable battery, resource set (an additional 671 pieces!) and an extra touch sensor for not that much more money. The most important pieces - that is the NXT brick, motors and sensors - are the same between the retail and education versions. I received an email message from FIRST today about shipping times for back-ordered NXT sets. You should call FIRST at 1-800-871-8326 to confirm when yours is scheduled to ship. You may get it earlier and the extra parts will come in handy.

Discussion: NXT Shipping late - Software question By: ElectricSquad5320 10/12/2006 13:32:38 GMT
Good Evening,

Our NXT system isn't arriving until next week. We've got the Missions, just nothing to test or train with.

Is there a resource or download available to get the NXT Programming software prior to delivery of the unit?

Alternatively, is there a team that would, on a gentlemen's agreement of licensing, loan us the software for installation until our unit comes in and we become street legal?

We're in Nashua, NH.

Thank you for your time

Message by: fll-freak 10/12/2006 13:32:38 GMT
Check your email.

-Skye

Discussion: More than one RXT? By: 2107 10/12/2006 14:24:19 GMT
Is it possible to use one NXT robot to perform say 5 missions during the competition and then bring in a different NXT robot to complete the rest of the missions? Only one NXT would be at the table at any one time. We saw this done with RCXs in the past.

Message by: fll-freak 10/12/2006 14:24:19 GMT
This is addressed in the UFAQ. The short answer is no because you are bringing more than the legal number of parts to the competition table.

-Skye

Discussion: Can RCX Motor interface with NXT? By: activators321 11/28/2006 22:31:00 GMT
Hi;

This is third year that our team participates in FLL. This year the team is going to use NXT set to build its FLL robot. Over last few weeks the builders realize RCX motor has size advantage for building manipulator but they are not sure if RCX motor is compatible with NXT though the cables in NXT can connect them together. So here are two questions from the team *

1. Can RCX motor work with NXT technically?

2. If 1 is yes, do FLL rules allow the combination (still 3 motors only)?

Team #321 "Robot Activators"

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 10/13/2006 20:09:59 GMT
Yes the RCX motors can hook up with the NXT if you got the FLL kit. There was special wiring included. As for allowable. Might want to shoot an email to first for an offical ruling. I am sure this would be a good addition to Q&A, Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: activators321 10/13/2006 20:14:07 GMT
Thanks, Carla. I'll send a inquiry to FLL.

Jin Ye
Coach
Team #321
Robot Activators
Virginia

Message by: activators321 10/13/2006 22:47:02 GMT
Here is the response from Scott Evans -

Hi 321,

There are converter cables that allow RCX motors to be run by an NXT brick. Contact LEGO Education at 800 362 4308

When you take another peek at Rule 8

http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=23710

you can see that combining is legal within bounds.

Have an excellent weekend,

Scott

Message by: Luther'sSeals1785 11/28/2006 19:33:26 GMT
Does anyone know if it is safe to run the NXT motors off of a RCX port or battery box? (Not that we would be using the battery box in the competition)A battery box would be helpful though in that you can simulate the third motor's motion without having to program it.

Message by: Brian001 11/28/2006 22:31:00 GMT
Hmm, I can't think of a good reason why it would *not* be safe, but I'm certainly not an expert. The NXT motors have internal thermal protection, so if for some reason they are drawing too much current, they *should* overheat and shut down (temporarily), but I can't say I'd be happy to try it. That's a consideration for a battery box - the RCX output ports simply don't have the current draw to run the NXT motors effectively, so that solution should't hurt the motors... but they won't work well either.

If you have access to a 2nd NXT kit, you could program the "spare" NXT to function as a battery box (hit the orange button to start/stop, for instance). This was actually one of the early programs I wrote, for just this reason.

--
Brian Davis

Discussion: NXT Motors hard to move when NXT off By: robox 12/06/2006 06:22:54 GMT
Seems like the NXT motors are very hard to move by hand (compared to RCX motors). Is there a mechanism to set them in certain way at the end of programs, or otherwise, so that they are in better 'float' state?

Message by: activators321 10/13/2006 21:08:30 GMT
Try "Coast" instead of "Brake" in "Next Action".

Message by: NanoEagles6106 11/27/2006 21:07:41 GMT
how does nxt motor work

Message by: Brian001 11/27/2006 21:27:30 GMT
What exactly do you mean? How an electric motor works, or what makes the NXT motor different than the old-style gear motors, or something else?

--
Brian Davis

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 06:22:54 GMT
The NXT motors are just hard to turn. Most likely this is due to lots of gear reduction and a little bit of friction. Coasting or braking has no effect on the motors when the NXT is turned off.

Discussion: Building Instruction for Models in NXT retail kit By: activators321 12/10/2006 22:34:52 GMT
FLL NXT Kit does not have the building instruction for the robot models that illustrated in NXT retail kit.

Are those building instruction ("constructopedia" or some sorts) available other than buying a retail kit?

Message by: zap85 10/13/2006 22:48:00 GMT
The building instructions are posted here:
http://www.legoedwest.com/download.php?list.10

Apparently the basic Ed. kit does not have all the necessary pieces, but I think the FLL kit (which came with an extra box of parts) probably does.

Doreen

Message by: activators321 10/16/2006 08:16:41 GMT
Thanks very much.

Message by: quantumbots3207 11/03/2006 00:53:22 GMT
There is one problem with the Alpha Rex instructions. Alpha Rex is designed to be built without a rechargeable battery. We tried to modify the robot to work with a rechargeable battery but it didn't work. Luckily we had some AA batteries lying around from last year.

Message by: Luther'sSeals1785 12/10/2006 22:34:52 GMT
I think everyone should be aware of a possible problem with Alpha-Rex. Make sure none of your wires are close to moving parts. One of our wires kept getting brushed by the motor, and now I have black dust and a wire with lots of rubber missing. Make sure you pin the wires away from the motors so you don't destroy your wires.

Discussion: Light Sensor Trouble - NXT By: Bluelightning1381 11/03/2006 23:39:34 GMT
Hi,

Our team has tried to program the NXT to follow the black line around the table, and it is as if our light sensor does not work. We calibrated it first. The NXT runs right over black and light spaces. It is very frustrating. Can anyone give us any tips on how to get it to folllow a black line, and is this possible? I am thinking we don't know what to tell the program to do, but it seemed so easy in the tutorial. any help is appreciated. maybe our sensor doesn't work?

Message by: theguysinside644 10/14/2006 16:30:48 GMT
Check this link for information on a line following program http://home.earthlink.net/~xaos69/NXT/Line_Follower/Line_Follower.html

Fred

Message by: Bluelightning1381 10/16/2006 03:33:25 GMT
Thank you for this help. I am thinking the line follow program makes the robot go to slow for a timed mission because so far it wastes time looking for the light/dark edges. Anyone's feedback on that?

Message by: fll-freak 10/16/2006 04:05:00 GMT
Line following algorithms (LFA) come in many flavors. Some follow a line aggresively, some are lazy. The lazy ones tend to be faster, but allow for more deviation.

My experimentation with LFAs using NXT-G was frustrating. Our old LFAs would not run properly because NXT-G was slower than an RCX. Our old LFAs will not work with Robolab on the NXT because they run at least 10 times faster. So it all boils down to finding the right algorithm with the right tuning parameters!

-Skye

Message by: SMART 10/16/2006 19:07:13 GMT
The linked alogorithm does appear to be a very slow one as it appears to stop and find over and over again rather than really follow. I found a link to a video that I "think" is this algorithm in action although not 100% sure as haven't be able to test it on an actual NXT bot yet. It does appear to be quite slow.

Will be interesting to see if NXT-G really is "too slow" to have the kind of proper line followers that we are used to see with RCX bricks for example in City Sights which was all lines.

- Peter

Message by: Bluelightning1381 10/16/2006 20:08:52 GMT
Peter - I checked out your link to the line follow video. That is exactly how our robot is functioning. I guess I just don't like it wasting so much time on the line. It's painful to watch it searching for that line when it could be utilizing it's time delivering molecules & buckyballs etc. This is frustrating! Thanks for all of the support!

Message by: zap85 10/16/2006 21:06:46 GMT
I'm no expert here, but I think there can also be mechanical issues, such as the placement of the light sensor, the height from the mat, the distance between the light sensor and the driving wheels, etc. My team had no success with a line-follower last year, using a long rear-drive RCX bot, but this year they've succeeded using a differently-shaped NXT bot and the basic tutorials that came with the software. They are not planning to use line-following in the missions yet, but they were excited that they could even get it to follow at line at all!

Doreen

Message by: DarkMatter747 10/17/2006 15:04:13 GMT
My team tried and discarded the program shown in the example and went back to the programs they were using on the RCX, which seem to work well. -- So our feedback is that it is possible to line follow with the NXT and NXT-G quickly enough to stay under 2:30. It might be easier for others to help if you were to post the program you're having trouble with, or a link to the tutorial you read.

But first, I would try more basic experiments: You say it is as if your sensor doesn't work - I suggest having your team create very simple light sensor programs - such as drive forward to dark - to test if and how well the sensor detects the lines you're trying to follow. They may want to experiment with light sensor distance from the mat and with how well the sensor detects the different-colored atoms and other makings on the mat - red, blue, yellow, black.

-Dave

Message by: Bluelightning1381 10/17/2006 15:58:21 GMT
My son was able to get the light sensor working in other ways than as a line follower. The team has decided they don't like the way the NXT follows the lines, so are exploring other strategies. Thanks for all of the helpful feedback!

Message by: Gear Geeks 1 10/24/2006 04:30:20 GMT
Our team found out today that they had good success following a line if they were lined up as close to parallel as possible when they started following the line. The more they deviate from being parallel to the line at the start, the more unpredictable the line following became. It is definitely different from following a line with the RCX. We are still experimenting and learning.

Mary
co-coach Gear Geeks 83

Message by: Mindstorm Masters 11/03/2006 23:39:19 GMT
I had this problem too. It seems that if you write "go forward forever" then "wait until dark" then "stop" -- a straight line program with 3 blocks -- this does not work.

If you create a control loop instead, you will get closer to what you expect. Use the "switch" block, and put the "go forward" or "stop" inside the switch block. In that scenario, the light/dark is tested constantly.

That isn't the best description, but maybe you can figure out what I meant.

In the end, I think we ended up with two nested control blocks, one testing for light, the other for dark. What you really want to see is "grey", halfway between light and dark, that's the edge of the line. Then on grey you can go forward.

-- Nora

Discussion: Using Break in Move Block By: StMichaels827 12/06/2006 06:10:22 GMT
Our team has noticed what we considered an odd occurance when using the move block with sync'd motors. When we set the motor to break at the end of our travel, the motors slow to a crawl. I'm assuming this is a way to get the distance correct by slowing the motor near the end. Normally, I would say great but sometimes, specifically when we go backwards and want to turn at the end of our travel, the motors slow and the rotation never makes it to the intended degrees, thus the robot stops and never makes our next turn. The working assumption is that the bot is too heavy and the slowed motor can not generate enough power to make that las few degrees. Has anybody else noticed this? We are thinking that we may have to just loop until we reach the distance and then brake. Any thoughts appreciated.

Lloyd O'Hara
St Michael's #827

Message by: 11/20/2006 19:53:10 GMT
Deleted

Message by: pigmice2192 11/20/2006 19:55:11 GMT
This can happen. To combat this you can go for unlimited and then wait until rotation then stop your motors.

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 06:10:22 GMT
Pick 10 NXT robots and the move block will behave in 10 different ways. My team's robot almost always overshoots and has to back up. I built a robot that's not much different, but it has a behavior similar to yours (though it never stalls).

Discussion: NXT cables By: theguysinside644 10/31/2006 16:33:37 GMT
Is it legal to use cables with home made connectors a la http://philohome.com/nxtplug/nxtplug.htm ? Since these would not be lego parts it seems that it would be illegal, however if someone breaks a connector what would they do since cables are on backorder?

Fred

Message by: fll-freak 10/21/2006 19:56:47 GMT
I would guess that it does not matter if the cables are on backorder or not. The homemade cables would not be LEGO parts in factory original condition. But you never know. You could ask FIRST via rule 36.

-Skye

Message by: nanoknights216 10/24/2006 23:34:16 GMT
Perhaps a friendly team in your area would loan you a cable. Also, did you try bricklink.com?
Tammy

Message by: theguysinside644 10/25/2006 01:52:17 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion, Tammy. We don't need any right now. I was wondering what would happen if someone broke one. We have two kids on the team who have nxt robots and could borrow their cables.

Fred

Message by: quantumbots3207 10/31/2006 16:33:37 GMT
We have four NXT sets so breaking a wire wouldn't be an issue with us.

Discussion: NXT cables By: theguysinside644 10/22/2006 06:17:06 GMT
Is it legal to use cables with home made connectors a la http://philohome.com/nxtplug/nxtplug.htm ? Since these would not be lego parts it seems that it would be illegal, however if someone breaks a connector what would they do since cables are on backorder?

Fred

Message by: fll-freak 10/22/2006 04:01:54 GMT
Already answered your question.
-Skye

Message by: theguysinside644 10/22/2006 06:17:06 GMT
Sorry. It got posted twice.

Fred

Discussion: Bluetooth Application for Mobile Phone By: sanantoniorobotics2850 10/30/2006 20:48:42 GMT
Hey everyone. I was wondering if anybody's using their mobile phone to work with the NXT via bluetooth. I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) that you have to have a special application on your mobile phone to be able to control the NXT. I found that out here: http://mindstorms.lego.com/Overview/Bluetooth.aspx.
However, that site has said "Coming Soon!" for a LONG time. I was wondering if they might have released the application somewhere else and have not updated this site. Has anyone used the mobile phone application? If so, where did you get it from?

Thanks! MK

Discussion: Counting Motor Revolutions? By: ECA Hawks 01/03/2007 08:20:08 GMT
This might be a dumb question but how do you count the motor revolutions on the NXT?

Thanks.

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/08/2006 23:22:26 GMT
Depends on the software you are using. With NXT-G a revolution is each time a wheel turns completely around. Or its 360 degrees. Is that what you mean? Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: ECA Hawks 11/08/2006 23:55:18 GMT
Our kids are moving from the RCX to the NXT and last year they said they could use the RCX to count the revolutions as the robot crossed a table etc. Then they would write their program accordingly. So I guess I'm asking if there is a way to run or move the robot from point A to point B and count the revolutions of the motor so they know where to start their programming.

Thanks.

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/08/2006 23:59:45 GMT
Are you using the NXT-G software or robolab?

In NXT-G if you have it plugged in using a USB cable it will read the count of the rotation sensor right on the screen of the computer. Or you can read it right on the robots screen with the try me options. The NXT-G software help explains it all in really good detail.

For robolab I am not sure, you may have to post this to the robolab programming section. I hope that helps, Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Message by: Brian001 11/09/2006 05:27:25 GMT
> In NXT-G if you have it plugged in using a USB cable...

Additionally, this can be done via Bluetooth. A team member at the table can physically push the robot across the board, while a team member at the computer watches the feedback section (the far left-hand section of the configuration pane of a selected Move block) update in real-time.

--
Brian Davis

Message by: ECA Hawks 11/09/2006 15:47:49 GMT
Sorry, I didn't tell you which program they are using. It's the NXT-G software. I will show them your responses this morning.

Thanks for the help!

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 05:45:30 GMT
There is a viewing feature with the NXT-G firmware. Of course you could always show them that rotations = distance / circumference. They might even want to do the conversion in their program. Then they could tell the robot to move a distance measured in inches or centimeters.

A big advantage to this method is that if you change the wheels on your robot you only need to change the circumference value (possibly stored in a variable) and all your programs will work.

Message by: 11/09/2006 14:57:06 GMT
Deleted

Message by: botsquad2672 11/09/2006 16:37:06 GMT
Just a thought, because it seems different coaches and teams have their preferencem, but I would recommend that you have your kids use the "degrees" option instead of the "rotations". After experimenting with both, we have switched to the degrees because you can make very minor adjustments. As posted elsewhere, you can see this at this web site: http://www.ortop.org/NXT_Tutorial/index.html
This was very helpful for my team, and I had each of them watch it. My kids now think about adjustments in increments of 10's, 50's, and 100's (remember, one roatation=360 deegrees). It has helped them fine tune the robot. Hope this helps. The best of programming to you.

GC
Botsquad Coach

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 05:54:29 GMT
Coaches that promote rotations are doing their team a big disservice. The move and motor blocks allow using decimals in the duration, but this isn't supported elsewhere.

Plus rotations can lead you to a false belief in the resolution of the sensor. I was helping a team that were making 0.001 magnitude changes to the rotation duration. The resolution of the sensor is 0.0028 rotations.

Message by: Limit Busters 198 12/29/2006 01:35:26 GMT
Unfortunately, it seems that NXT-G does not allow decimal calculations, thus you couldn't just input your needed variables, and it calculates the distance. We have attempted using the method of 1000x normal value, but it seems that after the division block of 1000 to reduce it to normal values, it rounds it. But if someone has found this wrong, please let us know!

Thanks,
Limit Busters

Message by: dhystad 01/03/2007 08:20:08 GMT
You are correct. But since the resolution of a move is 1 degree I don't see this as a problem. The important thing is to do your division at the end of the calculation.

My team wrote a Fraction MyBlock that multiplies an input by a numerator and then divides by a denominator. They use this thing all over the place.

Discussion: Light Sensor Calibration By: RadioactiveSpam1500 11/11/2006 18:44:11 GMT
I was wondering if it is a good idea to use the light sensor calibration program that comes with the NXT software. I had heard somewhere that it causes trouble, but I don't know if that was a very reliable source. Are you all having good results with the calibration program?

Thanks,
Lori

Discussion: Bluetooth interference at tournaments By: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 11/13/2006 21:14:33 GMT
Has anyone experienced any problems with bluetooth interference at tournaments? Rule # 8 states that "objects functioning as remote controls are not allowed anywhere," but not everyone in the audience reads the rules. If you had problems, how did you address them?

Yolande

Message by: fll-freak 11/13/2006 00:31:49 GMT
The rules also states that Bluetooth on the NXT must be disabled at all times at a tournament!

-Skye

Message by: Brian001 11/13/2006 01:39:46 GMT
I'm not sure what type of problems you're worried about - a team cheating by trying to remote control their robot, or random (or even malicious) BT messaging messing up a robots behavior? The first case can be solved by making sure that BT is turned off on the robot when it comes to the table (easily identified by a small icon on the top-left of the LCD), and the second can be... solved by making sure BT is turned off on the NXT.

--
Brian Davis

Message by: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 11/13/2006 21:07:56 GMT
I was thinking more of random interference from teams testing in the pit, similar to stray IR tower signals downloading to multiple robots. Our pit and competition area are almost adjacent, separated only by a 2-foot walkway, so it could affect robots performing at the table.

I don't have NXT (or a bluetooth device), so I don't know exactly how they work. However, I know that in the past it was a rare team that even owned a LEGO remote, let alone brought it to a tournament (you seldom see posts on LEGO remotes on the forum), but it seems that bluetooth usage is far more common. I missed the explicit rule about disabling BT, but now that I know, I will call attention to it at the tournament.

Yolande

Message by: Brian001 11/13/2006 21:14:33 GMT
From the standpoint of such cross-talk, no, don't worry. BT is *targetted* - there's no way for a BT message ment for one NXT causing problems with a second NXT*. Think of it as an invisible hard-wired connection, not a "broadcast a message" sort of thing.

*in a really really busy BT environment, you get something called "message collision" where one NXT BT message can "drowned out" somebody elses message... but even in that case, wrong messages don't get sent to the wrong NXT. The messed up message just gets resent later. BT has some real advantages.

In fact, I really hope they start allowing... no, *encouraging*... BT messaging in FLL. The possibilities for team cooperation are much greater, without potential interferance from other simultaneous events.

--
Brian Davis

Discussion: How does the battery affect the rotation sensor? By: GeniusInDisguise1559 12/09/2006 10:16:32 GMT
We have a young rookie team, and we're sticking to dead reckoning for navigation. We've found that with a fully charged battery the move blocks go longer and turns go farther. If we are using the rotation sensor, how does this happen? Aren't 5 rotations 5 rotations regardless of battery strength?

Bob
Team 1559

Message by: fll-freak 11/13/2006 05:13:51 GMT
You would think, but battery voltage can still be a factor. With strong batteries, the robot is more "active" and can overshoot its 5 rotations. The motor sync algorithm will put the motors in reverse to compensate. But that algorithm must have a "deadband" or a range of rotation sensor counts that it can be off by before moving on to the next band. If not, it might never see the right values and the program would stall. That deadband is likely the source of the variations you see.

-Skye

Message by: Brian001 11/13/2006 17:18:00 GMT
> that algorithm must have a "deadband"

True, although if you inspect the encoder counts you find this is (at least to my thinking) remarkably small. But there's a mechanical "deadband" issue as well, that of play in the geartrain (within the motor housing itself). As an example, see this video on YouTube of "clock-like" motion on the NXT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LNf8ygtAT8

--
Brian Davis

Message by: forestbot2687 11/17/2006 06:06:50 GMT
This is our first year too. We've noticed that problem just recently. Our tournament is on this Saturday. I started to follow the advice on a mailing list and charge the battery every night. Every time when we start practice, almost all programs are off. It is very frustrating to the kids.

I am recharging right now and I will retest tomorrow morning. If the same thing happens, I will stop charging to full. I don't think we will use up the battery at the tournament. I found the robot start to respond well when battery level drops to 7.8

Message by: tanrobotics 11/18/2006 07:32:25 GMT
You can use our technique:

1. Never replace all the batteries all at once
2. Replace 3 out of 6 batteries every time.

Read your voltage level after every match.

We found that we would change 3 out of 6 every 2 matches in a tournament. (hey, this worked well for us last year on RCX's... it took us all the way to Atlanta!)

This year we are going with the rechargable battery for the NXT. The reason: the middle section this year is not a race as it was in the past few years. As it is co-operative, our teams designed the NXT for accuracy this year instead of speed.

Paul Tan.

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 06:00:08 GMT
Replacing only half of the batteries is a bad practice. I have seen many battery and serveral toy manufacturers recommend against the practice. I have seen a fairly high coincidence of battery failure when this technique is used. Some of the failures even resulting in the batter venting (not just gasses) into the battery chamber.

Message by: tanrobotics 12/06/2006 19:29:04 GMT
The real danger in mixing batteries is only if the voltages drop down low enough in the old batteries to cause the batteries to be reverse biased. I.e. the batteries are no longer putting out a charge, but are in fact attempting to take a charge from the new batteries. In this condition, a reverse bias battery can vent the electrolyte and leak (you see this in batteries left for a long time in toys, that's why the toy manufacturers do not recommend mixing batteries). However, for FLL purposes, you would end up taking the batteries out anyways when the voltage drops, so you are NOWHERE near the danger point for a reverse bias.

Paul Tan.
(heh... I guess my Electricial Engineering training does come in to use sometimes ;).

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 21:08:34 GMT
Thanks for the info. Thats good to know.

Message by: CGMSC2605 11/17/2006 18:46:34 GMT
Many types of batteries will give a brief period of very high power after being charged (or manufactured). Usually, the high powered intial period is pretty short, as in "run up and down the table a couple times". After the high power period you get a much longer period of fairly constant power output.

I would suggest not using the batteries in the initial high power part of their discharge cycle. You won't even be able to get through the first round at the table before the power drops significantly.

Instead, after recharging the batteries run the 'bot for a while, completely ignoring how it behaves. For the 2500mAH LiMH batteries we use we find that running a complete "competition run" on the batteries will lower the power into the more stable range. So, like forestbot2687 posted, for recahrgeable batteries run the 'bot till the voltage drops into the ~7.8V range. You should then be able to do a complete tournament (three visits to the table) without doing anything to the batteries.

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 06:04:40 GMT
I find the robot travelling farther with fresh batteries quite suprising, unless the next action is coast.

Turning is not too shocking. These motors have so much torque that the wheels are slipping all over the place. My team does all their turns at lower power settings. Odometry is accurate only if the wheels don't slip.

Message by: CGMSC2605 12/08/2006 19:53:50 GMT
Dhystad: Even if the next action is stop/break the distance traveled during the stopping period will depend on the speed of the robot prior to the stop. The speed prior to the stop will be dependent on the battery power level.

So, even using a rotation sensor your distances will still be somewhat dependent on the battery power level. Though the rotation sensor helps a lot.

One way to reduce the affect of battery level on distances traveled is to slow down before the actual stop. The slower the robot is traveling the quicker it will stop. If the robot is traveling at a speed well below the power level that even weak batteries can provide, then the stopping distance will be consistent.

(Edit to fix the run-on underline)

Message by: SMART 12/08/2006 20:21:58 GMT
It may depend on programming environment. When you use NXT-G and the Brake action built into the move command you robot automatically slows down as it nears the target and will even back up if it overshoots. Battery shouldn't have a major effect.

However, I don't think life is so rosy for turns (at least not for us).

- Peter

Message by: dhystad 12/09/2006 10:16:32 GMT
My experience with brake is that given time the robot will move to the positio commanded. Some of my robots overshoot and return to this point. Others stop short and then creep up to it. But if I give the robot enough time to complete the move and do the correction then the biggest error I have ever seen is 2 degrees.

Discussion: Ultrasonic Sensor Usage By: Honeywell4011 12/06/2006 05:40:34 GMT
Is anyone brave enough to use the ultrasonic sensor. My kids have a perfect application for it, but I'm nervous of the sensor side effects. I'm worried about our sensor picking up another robot's ping instead of our echo.

Message by: GearGeeks2128 11/17/2006 16:02:40 GMT
Our kids are trying it in one program. They are triangulating from the mat and have the sensor pointing down with only a slight angle so that it can sense when something else besides the mat comes into view. We'll see how it does in competition but it's doing pretty well at practice.

They did discover that when they want to measure a distance of say 10cm that they have to input 20cm because the sensor measures out and back in so it doubles the number. I am not quite quick enough to understand why that is but they have found that it is pretty reliable.

Let us know how it goes if your team decides to try it.
~Mischa in Georgia
Co-coach
Gear Geeks I & II
(team #'s 83 & 2128)

Message by: Brian001 11/17/2006 17:30:13 GMT
> because the sensor measures out and back

This is not my experience; the sensor measures the distance to the nearest sound-reflecting object, period. I'm curious what's going on in your set-up. For instance, hold the US sensor a known distance from a flat wall, and use the on-screen View options to read the distance. What does it show?

--
Brian Davis

Message by: GearGeeks2128 11/17/2006 17:35:05 GMT
I'll have the kids test again today during their meeting. I'll let you know what they come up with.

Message by: tanrobotics 11/18/2006 07:35:31 GMT
I think you guys ran into the problem we found with the ultrasonic sensor (we gave up using it because of this).

What we found was that when the NXT was near the corners, it would read the reflection from the corners (i.e. bounce off the north wall, then bounce off the east wall then back to the ultrasonic sensor). Since the place where we would use the ultrasonic sensor the most would be the corners, we gave it up for an extra touch sensor instead.

Paul Tan.

Message by: dhystad 12/06/2006 05:40:34 GMT
This doubling is not the expected behavior. You are not slow and they are creating a myth to support their observations. I would verify that the sensor reading is off.

Many teams used the ultrasonic sensor at the tournament I judged at last weekend. I don't know if they ever went head to head though.

Discussion: Compass Sensor? By: ECA Hawks 11/21/2006 15:09:27 GMT
I was at the Lego site last night and noticed a compass sensor. Has anyone bought one and tried it out yet? It seems pretty cool and I can think of a few things we could use it for (not nano related).

Here's the link to the sensor.

http://shop.lego.com/ByTheme/Product.aspx?p=MS1034&cn=17

Message by: Brian001 11/21/2006 02:18:39 GMT
I have one, and can confirm it is very nice, and works really well within the NXT-G environment. Accurate to 1 degree is really impressive. Here's a YouTube video of JennToo on a turntable, equiped with the compass sensor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztkSdgVen-Q

--
Brian Davis

Message by: MA_Head_Ref 11/21/2006 15:09:09 GMT
Cool. Very cool. That video alone might make me get an NXT.

Jack Gregory

Discussion: Compass Sensor? By: ECA Hawks 12/09/2006 04:07:02 GMT
I was at the Lego site last night and noticed a compass sensor. Has anyone bought one and tried it out yet? It seems pretty cool and I can think of a few things we could use it for (not nano related).

Here's the link to the sensor.

http://shop.lego.com/ByTheme/Product.aspx?p=MS1034&cn=17

Message by: perpetualmoetion849 12/09/2006 02:34:57 GMT
Can the compass sensor be used during competitions? It is an official EGO piece, but it is new and no new rules have been made. Can anyone clear this up for me?

Message by: Brian001 12/09/2006 03:36:57 GMT
It's a very nice little sensor; very easy to use, and really accurate (although you do need to keep it mounted slightly away from things like the batteries or motors - pinned right to the NXT case, even after calibration, it doesn't function well). The NXT-G block from HiTechnic (the folks that actually make the sensor) to run the sensor is also easy to use. Note that it is *not* actually a LEGO product, but "certified (& sold) through LEGO", so it's a gray area - it's certainly NOT allowed this year, but it's an open question as to how FIRST wants to handle this sort of thing in the future. Here's a short demo of a compass-equiped NXT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztkSdgVen-Q

--
Brian Davis

Message by: zap85 12/09/2006 04:07:02 GMT
QA24 addresses this and the answer is no. It sounds like they've left it open to change their minds for the future.

Discussion: can I use Linux? By: The NanoBricks 11/21/2006 18:58:21 GMT
Dear forum,

At the moment, my son's team competes at the jr level, but this year most of them are 9, so we are starting to plan our robotic next year.

I have been given a used laptop that I would like to use in competition for programming the RCX (that I haven't bought yet)
I'd like to let my husband switch the laptop over to Linux for relighabilty. Does anyone know if Mindstorms RIS software, NXT software, or Robolab will run on a windows emulater? will it run on any flavor of Linux? Do any tournament rules mind which platform the software runs on?

Thanks,
Christine

Message by: bluecheesyflamingos 11/21/2006 18:58:21 GMT
What distribution are you running? Plus remember the Wine emulator is not full proof, it has some problems. Plus it might be a little bit to much on the kids who would be using it to learn a new OS.

I would love to know is someone got this working. I had to delete one of the linux partition on my laptop to install XP. Carla :)

Coach
Blue Cheesy Flamingos
MI Team

Discussion: NXT not working...6 days til tournament...ARRGGG! By: nanoknights216 05/04/2007 16:02:33 GMT
Our nxt started acting up the last couple meetings. Saying the battery was dead when it was fresh charged and refused to download programs. Charged it back up, and it was fine for a bit. Then after running a program a few times, it stopped responding to any button on it (like, you can't turn it off!) I found the reset button and pushed it and held for 5 seconds. Now it won't turn on at all. Anyone know how to fix this? How frustrating.
tw

Message by: KinardRobots 12/03/2006 00:53:04 GMT
Sounds like you are using rechargeable batteries. Maybe they are failing. I would replace with another set of batteries.

Message by: nanoknights216 12/03/2006 06:19:02 GMT
I just tried replacing with both another nxt rechargable that I know works, and with regular batteries. No dice. :-(
tw

Message by: fll-freak 12/03/2006 16:17:01 GMT
Since you have pressed the reset button (hidden inside a hole on the back of the NXT) for a few seconds, you then need to reload the firmware. I also suggest you take this moment to apply the patch to NXT-G to correct the 'clicking brick' problem.

-Skye

Message by: nanoknights216 12/04/2006 08:10:38 GMT
Skye--
The brick is doing its best impression of not being turned on (nothing on screen), yet it does do the clicking brick thing. I haven't ever loaded nxt-g onto this brick, only robolab 2.9.1. (I know, I know...I hope that isn't what killed it.) When I plug it into the computer with robolab on administrator and push the reset button, the computer chimes like new hardware has been plugged in, which would say *something* is happening in there.

Would a lack of firmware cause it to pretend not to turn on?

To complicate matters, I've installed 2.9.2 on another computer, and plugged the brick into it and tried downloading firmware, and it gives some crazy error message about previous firmware version not found or the like, then pops up some incomprehensible program into robolab behind it. I messed up when I installed 2.9.2 in that I left 2.9.1 open (running) while I uninstalled it. Which then made it impossible to close properly. I guess I was rattled? (Because I couldn't tell my 2.9.1 disc from the 2.9.2 without installing them...oy.)

Deep breath. My questions:
Will it appear to not turn on just because it needs firmware?
Why did this happen in the first place? (staying on, not responding to the buttons, etc.) Is 2.9.1 the problem?
Have I cripled my 2.9.2 installation by what I did in uninstalling 2.9.1?
And the big question: if I can't resurrect this thing, what will my team do for a brain in 5 days at their tournament?????
Tammy
"A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing..."

Message by: fll-freak 12/04/2006 14:20:00 GMT
Yikes!

If I understand your scenerio correctly, you purchased your NXT and started using it with Robolab 2.9.1. Then at some point things went south and the robot stoped responding. You tried the reset and that left you with a 'clicking brick'.

Here is what I would do. First I would install NXT-G and then upgrade it with the patch to fix the "clicking brick" bug. Then I would reset the brick and use NXT-G to download the NXT-G firmware. At this point the brick should comeback to life. But it will not be useable for Robolab as Robolab uses a different firmware.

If at this point the brick still does not come back to life, I am afraid that you may have a bad brick. Call LEGO Education and cry over the phone. They may be able to FedEx you a brick.

If you get a functional brick, then write a simple program in Robolab 2.9.x (think about asking LEGO for the upgrade to 2.9.2 that solves some issues). Once written, try to download the program and select the NXT brick on the selector when it pops up. You should now get that crazy message about the wrong firmware. This is because Robolab has detected that the firmware on the brick and what I wants on the brick are different. Tell it to download the firmware and hold your breath. You should now be back at square one.

If you are using 2.9.x, make an attempt to nuke your installations of older versions. They are not useful for the NXT, but 2.9.x will program the RCX.

Please let us know how this works out.

-Skye

Message by: Brian001 12/04/2006 16:08:02 GMT
To expand slightly on Skye's post, Tammy wrote:

> Will it appear to not turn on just because it needs firmware?

Exactly. If it sits there softly clicking, the firmware on the NXT brick Is Not Running, which means effectively you can't "turn it on"; instead, there's a tiny little bit of code runing in place of the firmware that will try to communicate via the USB port and help load up any firmware you choose to try. Before trying to reload the firmware (which will get it out of clicking brick mode), I agree you should install the patch from LEGO (although I *think* this only effects the NXT-G environment, it can't hurt). Then, push the reset pin (deep at the bottom of the pinhole under the USB port) for a full 5 seconds. Then, plug it in via the USB port and try to replace the firmware.

--
Brian Davis

Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #5 12/04/2006 19:03:24 GMT
> Would a lack of firmware cause it to pretend not to turn on?

Yes, that is *exactly* what will happen when the firmware is not present or not correctly loaded.

We were using Robolab 2.9.2 with the beta 8 patch to Robolab 2.9.3. We found that the Robolab 2.9.3 beta 8 software cured some firmware loading problems (like those that you describe) present in the 2.9.1 and 2.9.2 versions.

I suggest you do the following:
A - Uninstall your Robolab software and do a clean installation of Robolab 2.9.2. Your installation of 2.9.2 is suspect due to the prior partial uninstall.

B - After doing a clean install of 2.9.2, try to put firmware on the NXT brick with Robolab via the admin screen. I seem to recall that Robolab 2.9.2 had trouble with this, but it may have been only 2.9.1 which had the problem.

C - If the above doesn't work, you have two options:
1 - Upgrade your Robolab 2.9.2 installation to Robolab 2.9.3 beta 8 via the download from the CEEO Robolab site. I believe you will then be able to install the firmware to cure your problem from Robolab.

2 - Install the NXT-G software, and the NXT-G patch. Use NXT-G to install the NXT-G firmware. At that point, Robolab 2.9.2 will be able to install its firmware in place of the NXT-G firmware.

The issue is that the earlier versions of Robolab 2.9 couldn't put firmware into an NXT with "no firmware" but only one that already had properly functioning firmware (either NXT-G or Robolab). The two approaches to fixing this if you are using an earlier Robolab 2.9 with NXT are to either install NXT-G firmware before installing Robolab firmware, or to upgrade to Robolab 2.9.3 beta 8.

--ken
Co-Coach of Mayhem FLL Teams
http://www.mindstormsmayhem.org
http://www.moremayhem.org

Message by: nanoknights216 12/04/2006 19:26:07 GMT
You guys are the best. Want the next chapter?

Okay, I went back to the machine that we've been using, the one that has 2.9.1, and got it to load up firmware and resurrect the brick. Hurray! Then I loaded up some programs and the kids tried a mission...the go straight program appeared to be totally non-functional. With a little looking, we find that whatever else went wrong appears to have toasted a motor: it now offers extreme resistence, while its mate spins normally. Hard to navigate like that.

So we have our attachment motor reassigned to locomotion, a new one coming from Denmark (because America is just too darn small to store the pesky things Here?!?), and I'm kissing my husband who ordered extra motors for HIS team from the git-go. He'll bring me one on loan tonight.

I have one more question: is it safe to migrate existing 2.9.1 programs to 2.9.2 or beyond? I don't want motor yoking, but I would *love* to have a stop block that works...but lacking a coast could be a problem.

I never knew what a beautiful sound that little start up chime is...
Here's is what I've learned: if your brick starts acting up, reload the firmware, and don't use software that they told you they didn't mean to release in the first place!
Tammy

Message by: Brian001 12/04/2006 19:54:27 GMT
> appears to have toasted a motor...

Wow. OK, first, I'm very sorry, but second, Wow, that's the first time I've actually heard of a NXT motor dying (not that I didn't expect it to happen, I've just not seen it happen until now). Is the motor stiff to move when *disconnected* from the NXT? I just want to make sure you tested the same motor in different ports, or all the ports with a known good motor, etc. And does Denmark want the motor back? I suspect they might be grateful for a failed motor at this point... I'm still trying to figure out how it failed.

> I never knew what a beautiful sound that little start up chime is...

Yeah, but it lasts too long - I replaced it :-).

Message by: fll-freak 12/04/2006 20:16:46 GMT
Yippe!

i and I'm kissing my husband ...

Do you have a permit for that?

2.9.1 programs work fine moving up to 2.9.2+. In fact I have been able to open old 2.5.x programs.

-Skye

Message by: nanoknights216 12/05/2006 00:37:09 GMT
Metaphorical kiss, of course. Cell phones not being that technologically advanced yet and all.

So, the motor: When the robot lost its brain, it was in the middle of running a program and just kept spinning its wheels. I didn't see it happen, and I didn't do it, but it *is* possible some desperate child tried to stop it by grabbing a motor under power. The motor is hard to turn by hand even totally disconnected, and the port works fine with a good motor. My hubby's theory is that it is probably bound up with powered plastic from its little trauma. When I'm sure I have a substitute coming and that I don't have to send this carcus in, I will probably dissect it to see what's going on in there.

Here's another possibility: for a while the kids were running a program that shredded tires as it backed into a wall to square itself. Maybe some of the tire shreds worked themselves into the motor and jammed something. Maybe that interfered with an encoder and jammed a wait for command. But that doesn't explain why it didn't respond to the power off button or the other firmware seeming problems. I don't know.

I'm glad to hear that 2.9.2 should work. Does the coast command work on that, or do I need a patch?
Tammy

Message by: Mindstorms Mayhem #5 12/05/2006 00:56:12 GMT
> I'm glad to hear that 2.9.2 should work. Does the coast
> command work on that, or do I need a patch?
> Tammy

In version 2.9.2, to the best of my recollection, all of the "stop sign" icons instead result in a "coast" / "float" behavior. In order to get "stop" functionality, use the motor control icon that allows power to be set from -100 to +100 with a setting of 0.

In version 2.9.3 beta8, the stop signs work, but I am not aware of any way to get "coast" functionality.

--ken
Co-Coach of Mayhem FLL Teams
http://www.mindstormsmayhem.org
http://www.moremayhem.org

Message by: Brian001 12/05/2006 02:08:24 GMT
> I will probably dissect it to see what's going on in there.

Well, if you get to that stage, here's a little primer:

http://philohome.com/nxtmotor/nxtmotor.htm

--
Brian Davis

Message by: nanoknights216 12/06/2006 20:39:20 GMT
Brian, that is a really helpful page, thank you. I wonder if the motor is somehow bound up or if there is something stuck in the gear train?
tw

Message by: nanoknights216 12/11/2006 04:42:29 GMT
I think this problem may have been created by a faulty usb cord. (Dollar store retractable model that got played with too much, perhaps!) The NXT started acting up after we used that cord and it told us the battery was low when it wasn't. I tried using the cord again the other day and again got the low battery error message when I shouldn't have.

Message by: dhystad 12/11/2006 04:56:27 GMT
Throw that thing away immediately! I had a problem with a USB port on my laptop. Whenever I plugged a USB device into that port my laptop shut down and wouldn't restart for 15 minutes. The faulty port was shorting and my laptops power protection was cutting in. That isn't something you want to have happen too often. Who knows what my be happening to your NXT.

Message by: nanoknights216 12/11/2006 08:41:12 GMT
It's already out of here. I kept it around initially, but when the problem popped again, it got violently tossed! Fortunately, we made it through our tournament without any further (nxt caused!) problems. Host of other random foibles, but that's what we get for relying on odometry, right? ;-)
Tammy

Message by: RoboDogs1842 12/27/2006 04:23:33 GMT
We're using 2.9.3 on two team robots. One robot running okay (some wierd behaviour and battery mssgs). The other started clicking and running thru all the stations on the brick. It doesn't respond to anything even after reloading the firmware.

I don't see a reset button....and, which is the "back" vs the "front".

Tournament in 4 days.....ack!

K

Message by: Brian001 12/27/2006 22:15:28 GMT
The reset button is in a peg hole "underneath" the USB port. Turn the NXT LCD away from you so you are looking at the battery cover, and the reset button (just a hole with a metal contact beneath it) is located in the deep pinhole at the same corner as the USB port. You can poke it with a LEGO antenna (or the good old unfolded paperclip).

Push it once briefly for a "soft" reset... or push it in and hold it for 5 seconds, and then reload the FW.

--
Brian Davis

Message by: RoboDogs1842 12/28/2006 15:40:56 GMT
I found the reset hole yesterday and reset it. It kept clicking...loudly. In the view screen, it was running thru different NXT stations. It looked like it was trying to do a diagnostic of some sort. I could shut the brick off or turn it back on...once it chimed "on" the clicking starts. The first reset didn't work so I took out the battery pack and reset the button under the battery pack. After that reset, the NXT would no longer boot. We sucessfully reloaded the firmware with RoboLab 2.9.3beta and still get clicking.

Lego.technical said this was the first time they heard of this type of problem. Most of the clicking problems they have seen were soft clicks, with no ability to turn off or reboot and that resetting and redownloading the firmware fixed the problem.

What a relief that one of our teammembers received an NXT for Christmas. We switched out the brick and batterypack and will deal with the old malfunctioning NXT next week (after tournament)...sigh...

-thanks...we're not limping along anymore....

K

Message by: Brian001 12/28/2006 16:28:41 GMT
It's the first time I've heard of this problem either (running through various things on the LCD is certainly odd). Do you by any chance know what you might have done before this to get it in that state? Did tech support request the NXT back for analysis? I'm wondering about the rechargable battery pack in this case... did you try "normal" AA batteries?

--
Brian Davis

Message by: robodogs2506 05/04/2007 16:02:33 GMT
Tech support replaced it. They said something got stuck inside.

K

Message by: RoboDogs1842 12/28/2006 15:42:08 GMT
I found the reset hole yesterday and reset it. It kept clicking...loudly. In the view screen, it was running thru different NXT stations. It looked like it was trying to do a diagnostic of some sort. I could shut the brick off or turn it back on...once it chimed "on" the clicking starts. The first reset didn't work so I took out the battery pack and reset the button under the battery pack. After that reset, the NXT would no longer boot. We sucessfully reloaded the firmware with RoboLab 2.9.3beta and still get clicking.

Lego.technical said this was the first time they heard of this type of problem. Most of the clicking problems they have seen were soft clicks, with no ability to turn off or reboot and that resetting and redownloading the firmware fixed the problem.

What a relief that one of our teammembers received an NXT for Christmas. We switched out the brick and batterypack and will deal with the old malfunctioning NXT next week (after tournament)...sigh...

-thanks...we're not limping along anymore (for now, anyway)....

K

Discussion: Battery Help!!!Fast By: quantumbots3207 12/07/2006 01:17:46 GMT
Our robot works great at a power leval of 8.2 Is it okey to keep charging it every hour.

The Quantum Bots

Message by: tanrobotics 12/06/2006 19:51:16 GMT
Should be no problem. We have been doing that for the past couple of months. The battery cells are Lithium Ion, so they should not have a problem with it.

Rechargable batteries in general do have a limited cycle life (i.e. number of charges), so, in theory, by recharging it more often, you *MIGHT* shorten the life. However, the life cycles of the Lithium ION batteries are in the 1000's of charges, so you probably won't notice anything.

Paul Tan.

Message by: quantumbots3207 12/07/2006 01:17:46 GMT
Thanks a lot

Discussion: bluetooth By: dragons3477 12/20/2006 14:59:46 GMT
i dont get how to get the nxt to accept bluetooth

Message by: Brian001 12/20/2006 14:59:46 GMT
I think you need to be more specific. How to turn BT on on the NXT? How to make connect one NXT to another via BT? How to send information under the control of NXT-G between NXTs? Or how to connect the NXT to the computer via BT? Or to a PDA or BT-equiped cellphone?

--
Brian Davis

Discussion: TIRES By: 4-Hers06 01/05/2007 01:13:04 GMT
I am using a NXT with the bot that came with the kit. But the tires are all wobbly and every thing. Thanks - David (Programer for the lego invaders) help only 2 weeks till compition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Message by: botsquad2672 01/02/2007 14:56:44 GMT
There is a discussion about tires causing the robot to wobble here http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?128@@.ee9a6eb

We had problems with the balloon tires as discussed on this thread. You will see in the discussion that we tried three different types of tires, but they were all different sizes of balloon style tires and resulted in the same effect. When the kids switched to the street tires, the wobble problem was eliminated. This may be what you are seeing. This discussion thread is under *Equipment Questions, *Motor Questions, *Wobble in NXT when going in straight line. Just in case the link doesn't work. Hope that helps.

GC
Botsquad Coach

Message by: 4-Hers06 01/04/2007 01:25:04 GMT
Thanks botsquad for that help!!

Message by: Randazzo1589 01/04/2007 01:25:25 GMT
We eliminated the wobble problems with wheels by making sure there was a grey little axle holder, not sure of the parts name. It is little grey round thing we put on the black rods to hold the wheel in place. Hope this helps.

Jen
Randazzo1589

Message by: 4-Hers06 01/05/2007 01:13:04 GMT
Thanks jen for that but our team engineer came last night and he told me that the attach ment was to hevy so i got this problum fixed!!!

Discussion: ARM By: Rockets 01/04/2007 22:08:27 GMT
Does anyone know how to program the arm to move? We realized that it is connected and has the capability to be programmed but we are not sure how to program it.

Thanks!

Message by: Randazzo1589 01/04/2007 01:07:47 GMT
We used an additional motor to move our arm up and down by programming it with on motor I with for example a 90 degree turn. You adjust it to how much you want it to move. We also found it worked better when we slowed the speed some.

Message by: Randazzo1589 01/04/2007 01:08:21 GMT
That should have said Motor C not I.

Message by: Rockets 01/04/2007 22:04:26 GMT
So...you cannot do it with just one motor? and where would I get this other motor for future reference?

Message by: Randazzo1589 01/04/2007 22:08:27 GMT
I'm not sure since I bought multiple sets, but I believe the NXT comes with 3 motors. Two for the wheel movement and the 3rd for other movement.

Randazzo1589

Folder: RCX Specific Questions 12/05/2006 22:46:46 GMT

Folder: Rotation-Angle Sensor Problem 10/18/2006 15:20:43 GMT
I am having trouble with my RCX rotation sensor. The last time we ran the program using it the rotation sensor counted up (positive numbers). Today we ran the same program (with no hardware change) and the sensor counted backwards. Has anyone else had this problem or know what might be going on? Thanks.

Discussion: Counting with Rotation scnsor By: Florida_Moderator 10/18/2006 15:20:43 GMT
The only time this happens that I'm aware of is if the rotation sensor was turned over. Rotation sensors are directional. If thw wire is towards and you rotate the axel clockwise the counts go up. If you put the rotation sensor with the wire away from you, it goes down.

Maybe one of the kids was trying to optimize the design and put the rotation sensor in a different place?

-Laura

Message by: Efexeye5822 10/14/2006 01:10:17 GMT
That's my suggestion too, that the wire attaching the sensor to the RCX was probably turned 180 degrees between tests. Just like a motor runs the other direction when you turn the wire, so does the axle rotation counter.

Message by: DeMOElishers 10/18/2006 15:20:43 GMT
I agree with the others. The same occurs with motors. Some kid that you do not know about coming in the room may have touched it.

Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: fll-freak 10/01/2006 14:43:27 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ (UFAQ) before posting your questions. The UFAQ is the result of condensing the posting from the previous four seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions have likely already been answered. The UFAQ has been updated for this year's rule changes.

The UFAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the UFAQ at:

http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

Skye Sweeney
skye@fll-freak.com

Message by: tigers2398 10/01/2006 05:36:34 GMT
I am having trouble with my RCX 2.0. My "View" button no longer operates. This unit is a year old. How reliable are these units? Any suggestions to fix this one or is it a lost cause?

I really do not want to get a NXT since it means changing operating systems on my ancient laptop. I also have another unit that the team uses (RCX) and don't want to mix them up.

Message by: MA_Head_Ref 10/01/2006 14:43:27 GMT
Contact LEGO. Their customer service is justifiably legendary.

Jack Gregory

Discussion: USB RCX Tower options By: MA_Head_Ref 10/01/2006 01:59:21 GMT
I have a team with old RCX's and a new laptop. The laptop only has USB, they only have 9-pin serial towers. Getting a new USB tower is a little harder or more expensive than anticipated, but it is an option. The other option seems to be a USB-Serial adapter, which is clearly more than just a cable, since it needs to translate the signals. My question is, has anyone tried one of these to drive an old style IR tower from a USB port using Windows XP?

Jack Gregory

Message by: fll-freak 09/30/2006 02:16:41 GMT
I have one. I will give it a try for you.
-Skye

Message by: Mini-Monsters 09/30/2006 17:25:58 GMT
We have used one in the past. The only problem was remembering to change the battery!

Marie
Mini-Monsters, Molecular Mechanics, Tetramatics, 10 to the negative 9

Message by: MA_Head_Ref 10/01/2006 01:05:12 GMT
Good news. I obtained one of these today, and it works like a charm. Cost was pretty high at $40, but I didn't have the luxury of waiting. No batteries, runs off the USB power. It is a Keyspan USA-19HS. If anyone is having this issue, this is a solution, thankfully.

And the program, written by 5th graders last Sunday worked first time!

Jack Gregory

Message by: fll-freak 10/01/2006 01:59:21 GMT
This will go into the UFAQ!
-Skye

Discussion: Tower Problem, cannot communicate with RCX By: legomynano2764 11/13/2006 18:30:35 GMT
We have purchased new Dell laptops this year and have the RCX Kits with the Mindstorms Programming 2.0. We have installed the software, but we cannot get the towers to work. Windows recognizes the tower and we go thru a wizard where it looks like we load the correct driver. When we return to the hardware setup under the settings section, we still have no communication with the RCX. Please help. This might be as simple as we think it is.

Thanks, Trent
Legomynano Team Advisor

Message by: Whizards 10/11/2006 20:04:57 GMT
The USB IR Towers can be the most annoying things on the planet, if you ask me. I was in a computer lab, running a demo using the RCX, and I think the IR Tower worked on all of the machines except for two. *SIGH* Silly me for only testing on a couple machines as opposed to every single machine.

Having said that, when you try to connect, does the green light on the IR tower come on?

Is the RCX currently on? When you try to connect, do you see a down arrow appear on the LED of the RCX?

Have you tried going into the Control Panel and look at the IR USB Tower and see if it's installed properly? If you have more than one computer, you could try and reduce the range of the IR Tower, they may be all interfering with each other.

Have you tried seeing if any other program (like Brix Command Center or Robolab) will work with it?

Message by: DeMOElishers 10/18/2006 15:25:09 GMT
Try uninstalling and then reinstalling the software. If this does not work try calling or (E-)Mailing the customer support. I have prieviously had this problem also.

Message by: fll-freak 10/28/2006 20:32:16 GMT
Legomynano,
Did you ever resolve your problem?
-Skye

Message by: CV CA Volunteer Moderator 11/12/2006 08:42:25 GMT
We had this problem a while back. RIS software was designed optimally for Windows 98 and isn't very compatible with newer operating systems. I spent over an hour on the phone with LEGO technical assistance; after many trials and errors, the final result was that they sent me a software patch with a folder called LEGOTower. I would be glad to e-mail you a copy of the files, but you might be better off calling LEGO technical assistance in case the configuration on your computer is different than ours. They still support RIS.

Yolande

Message by: CGMSC2605 11/13/2006 18:30:35 GMT
Another thing to try is to cover the RCX and IR tower with a box or other opaque covering to ensure some IR source in the room isn't interfering with the communication.

We were having trouble reloading the firmware one day and couldn't get it to work until we covered things up with a trash can.

Discussion: rotation sensors not reading at all By: jrdevildawgs535 10/28/2006 21:24:31 GMT
We just took two brand new rotation sensors out of the package and installed one on the front axle of our robot. We cleared the robot and then hit view until the arrow was on the port we were using. We then rolled the bot by hand to get a reading but the number never changed it just sat at 1 We tried the other new sensor and got the same results???

Message by: fll-freak 10/28/2006 20:34:41 GMT
This is exactly as I would expect!

Try reading Q9.3 in the UFAQ available here:

http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

-Skye

Message by: jrdevildawgs535 10/28/2006 20:58:08 GMT
Thank you very much. Sorry for the obviously simple question, I have four rookie teams comprised mostly of 5th and 6th graders and I haven't yet figured all this out yet.

Message by: fll-freak 10/28/2006 21:24:31 GMT
Not a problem. I would suggest that you skim over the UFAQ as there is a wealth of information in it.

-Skye

Discussion: Stacking sensors By: Huskies1043 12/05/2006 22:46:46 GMT
I have a question from one of our kids. We know that you can stack two (or more) touch sensors on a single sensor input, but is there a way to stack a rotation sensor and a touch sensor together onto a single sensor input. We tried it and the software doesn't seem to allow it, but maybe we're missing something. Any ideas out there?

Message by: fll-freak 11/01/2006 14:18:05 GMT
It is not possible to stack a rotation sensor with any other type of sensor. This issue is addressed in the UFAQ.

-Skye

Message by: dhystad 12/05/2006 22:46:46 GMT
Rotation sensors can be stacked with a touch sensor, but you have to do A LOT of software to make this work. Very seldom is it worth the effort.

Feedback from the rotation sensor is 4 different voltage levels. Each time the voltage level changes, the rotation sensor software in the RCX increments or decrements the rotation sensor count. The decision to increment or decrement is based on the previous and current voltage feedback from the sensor. The voltage changes follow different patterns based on the direction the sensor hub is turning.

If you want to stack a touch and a rotation sensor then you have to do all the counting stuff in your program. You set the sensor type to raw and read the voltage values. When the voltage changes you change the count. You determine direction by looking at the pattern of the changes.

Next you need to look at the 4 voltage levels returned from the rotation sensor and compare them to the voltage value returned when the touch sensor is pressed. Hopefully there will be a noticable difference and you can check for the feedback exceeding a certain value.

As I said at the start, it is possible to stack a touch and rotation sensor, but hardly worth the effort.

Folder: Table Construction 05/03/2007 21:28:56 GMT

Discussion: Unofficial FLL Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) available By: fll-freak 10/05/2006 18:00:04 GMT
Fellow FLLer,

Please consider reading the Unofficial FLL FAQ (UFAQ) before posting your questions. The UFAQ is the result of condensing the posting from the previous four seasons. All the non-challenge specific questions have likely already been answered. The UFAQ has been updated for this year's rule changes.

The UFAQ was not authored by FIRST, but rather by coaches like you.

You can find the UFAQ at:

http://www.fll-freak.com/faq

Skye Sweeney
skye@fll-freak.com

Message by: TechnoGeeks3974 10/04/2006 16:04:44 GMT
Sky,

After building the basic table framework including the dummy border, we find the space elevator is not a tight fit and there is no support for the trip mechanism outrigger. This won't be a problem at competition as there will be the other table. However, we don't have room for two tables in our practice room. I'm planning to attach a shelf to the bottom of the dummy border to extend out far enough to support the legs and outrigger. Is this the best solution? Or did someone come up with something better?

Thanks,
Melody Dig
Head Coach
Techno-Geeks, Micro Maniacs & Pint-Sized Pundits

Message by: TechnoGeeks3974 10/04/2006 16:11:49 GMT
Skye,

I apologize, the spell checker changed your first name and my last name by mistake.

Melody Doig

Message by: fll-freak 10/04/2006 17:47:36 GMT
I stopped using the spell checker years ago. Even though I embarass myself with my poor spelling, its better than the butcher job the spell check routine does!

For your original question, a short piece of 2*4 and a small shelf of plywood is the ticket.

-Skye

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/04/2006 17:35:00 GMT
Yup. Some years you only have to screw an extra piece of 2x4 outside your north wall. This year because of the trigger rolling mechanism, you have to support it with an extra piece of horizontal wood. I'd screw a small piece of plywood to the bottom of the extra 2x4, and then screw the combined assembly to the back side of your north wall.

- Gary

Message by: TechnoGeeks3974 10/04/2006 20:51:52 GMT
Gary,

Thanks for confirming my solution.

MI FLL moderator? Where in MI? We're in Houghton, in the U.P.

Thanks again,
Melody Doig

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/05/2006 18:00:04 GMT
I'm in SE Michigan - but my son is at MTU and we have been up there often. We get a new experience in a couple months when we come up in winter for his graduation.

I got this "job" by asking Dan M if he needed help watching things on the forum, since I read it quite often.

- Gary V

Discussion: where to put the ball??? By: lego125 10/05/2006 18:01:35 GMT
on the smart medicine table challenge, where does the buckyball 1st get placed at? Thank you for your help.

Message by: fll-freak 10/04/2006 23:28:47 GMT
In the base.
-Skye

Message by: NanoAtomicPenguins3037 10/04/2006 23:29:20 GMT
The ball starts in the base in the south-west corner of the mat. You can place it on/in your robot by hand before the start of any mission.

Pete

Message by: MI FLL Volunteer Moderator 10/05/2006 18:01:35 GMT
And of course "in the base" means the team can move it out of their way (off the table with their unused attachments) until they need it.

- Gary V

Discussion: Table on the Floor By: spitfire4551 10/12/2006 12:47:44 GMT
We bought 8x4 plywood and lay it on the tile floor and roll the mat on top of it. Is this sufficient or need we need to make the stiffeners and have it raised up? Will it affect performance of the robot?

Message by: fll-freak 10/12/2006 03:39:45 GMT
Having the bumpers is fairly important. The stiffners under the table are not as important unless you are using thin plywood.

-Skye

Message by: spitfire4551 10/12/2006 07:13:12 GMT
If I use the Luan 1/4", is that thick enough?

Thank you.

Message by: fll-freak 10/12/2006 12:47:44 GMT
If its on a flat floor that would be ok. But if you raise it up on saw horses like it would be at a competition, then 1/4 inch is probably too thin. It might sag and not be as flat especialy without the 2*3 stiffners on the bottom.

-Skye

Discussion: 2 part table? By: legolemurs428 05/03/2007 21:28:56 GMT
I was at a local FLL competition this March (Rochester Rumble) and saw one team that had their table in 2 pieces. It looked like it would be much easier to transport! I'm trying to come up with ideas for holding the two halves together that would ensure exact alignment and minimal disruption of the play surface and borders. I really like the idea of doing a 2 part table and would love to hear from people with experience doing this.

David

Message by: Westford81 05/03/2007 20:43:59 GMT
I don't have any specific experience, but you could go to a woodworking store, Woodcraft or Rockler, and they would probably have the hardware used to align tabletop leaf's. That would probably work perfectly.

Also available mailorder from the same companies.

Chris

Message by: GranbyRedBlox1945 05/03/2007 21:28:56 GMT
I made mine in four segments. I bought 2x4' Luan pieces at Home Depot, then glued and screwed a frame of 1"x2" pine around each. Then I drilled and bolted the segments together... the pine was a little warped - oak 1x2s may have given a straighter frame for mating one to the next. Overall it came out decent, with a slight jump on my center two segments (maybe a 1/16th" or so - a little sanding of the luan helped). With the mat on it is barely notable. The segments are not too sturdy until you screw the 2x4s around the top perimeter.

It was nice to be able to transport it in a car to the library for our demo. I still need to create a 2x4 rail that is hinged to that it folds into 4 foot sections. For the demo I put it on some milk crates so that it was low and the kids could see it better.

Merle Yoder
Granby Red Blox

Folder: Table Setup 12/11/2006 18:00:52 GMT

Folder: Mat Placement 09/18/2006 21:22:48 GMT
Please help our team with Mat Placement. Our field mat this year is significantly smaller than previous years. Should we allign the space elevator in the center of the field and close to the edge of the mat. This would make everyone's joint endeavors more predictable.

Thanks for all of your help.

Diane

Discussion: Mat placement By: fll-freak 09/18/2006 21:22:48 GMT
The instructions for proper mat placement are provided in the field setup page found here:

http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=23680

-Skye

Discussion: Mat to small for table By: Cyberwolves 12/11/2006 18:00:52 GMT
The mat is almost a half inch too short in both directions this year. Should the mat be centered on the table or should we align it with the table in one corner (ie. the base corner)?

Message by: BrightLights2006 09/21/2006 03:49:58 GMT
It should be aligned at the base corner:

"Step 3: Slide and align the mat so that there is no gap between the "Base" corner***s edges of the mat and the corresponding borders. Gaps are acceptable at the other 2 edges unless they approach 3/8 inch (10mm), in which case you should move the borders."

(from http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=14160 )
-Rob A>
Team Bright Lights
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada.

Message by: MoleculeMunchers502 10/01/2006 21:29:28 GMT
Even with aligning this base corner, there is a significant gap along the north and east wall. Should we change the dimensions of the border walls down from the required 45" x 93"? If not, will this gap be the same at competition? I am worried that it will effect our programming.

Thank you,
Tia Vanderwoude

Message by: fll-freak 10/01/2006 22:12:12 GMT
This is a tough question with no good answer. The mats tend to have some variation from lot to lot. In some years it has been significant. This year I understand the variation is resonable. The other factor is the table itself. Not all plywood is exactly 48*96 inches and not all 2*4s are 1.5 inches thick. Add up all these variations and you can get a significant accumulated error.

Now the first step is to make sure that you line up the mat as per the field setup instructions. Now your error only exists against the north and east walls. If you use these walls as part of your programming, you will have to account for it.

The nasty part is that your pratice table will be different than the competition table. And even at one tournament all the competition tables are likely to be different against each other.

So armed with this knowledge your team may be able to figure out a way to compensate.

-Skye

Message by: MA_Head_Ref 10/02/2006 18:53:08 GMT
The table should be built to the instructions. No more, no less. Anything else is a mistake.

The field should be set up per instructions. To the best of your ability. This is all that is going to happen at a tournament.

So, armed with that, and with knowing that the mats are deliberately undersize, what do you do? You understand that there will be a gap at the North and East sides. Expect it. Don't change anything to meet your expectation of what it should be.

Jack Gregory

Message by: botzealots1105 10/06/2006 15:02:50 GMT
In privious years the mats have been slightly oversize. This is a greater problem than being undersize. Follow the instructions. I believe the table building instructions say + or - 1/8" that is a 1/4" variation. I try to keep the field (inside) dimensions as close to 93 x 45 as possible.

Message by: SHeeN 12/09/2006 17:09:06 GMT
At our regional competition, I did not have a copy of this thread or the Q&A (chalk one up to experience). *None* of the mats were aligned in the SW corner - all varied by different amounts and the space elevator was on its printed marks. I queried the refs and was told that we'd have to live with it which meant that we knocked together a spacer very quickly to make our jigs work.

We can't complain because our robot won on the table but we had a worrying few minutes.

Message by: CGMSC2605 12/11/2006 18:00:52 GMT
SHeeN: Was this the first time you regional competition was run by this particular group of people? I would definitely send a follow-up email describing the incorrect table setup to the organizers and point out that they have a responsibility to keep up with at least the official Q&A.

I really hate to give the volunteers who put in all the work to run a tournament a hard time but they really should not be making gross errors like this.

Discussion: Pieces Missing from Field Kit By: Tigers13684 10/24/2006 21:01:53 GMT
I was disappointed this year when, after constructing the items from the field kit, I found that three pieces were missing. Two were either unimportant or I was able to replace with extra pieces I had. However, one of the missing pieces was the long axle for the nanoprobe that connects to the magnet. This seems to be a fairly critical piece for that challenge. I was wondering if anyone else had this issue or knew where to acquire another of these pieces? The other thought I had was to connect several smaller axles, but I would think this would throw in different variables that my students won't encounter at the tournament.

Message by: fll-freak 09/22/2006 19:53:45 GMT
Call LEGO Educational using the contact information in the back of the Coaches' Handbook. They will get you the spares you need.

-Skye

Message by: FellowshipOfTheBricks 09/26/2006 05:13:54 GMT
We were also missing the long axle that holds the magnet. This is not one any of the kids had in their thousands of legos. We temporarily linked a few axles together, just so we could complete the model. We then requested the piece and it arrived a few days later.

Steve
Fellowship of the Bricks
Team 8

Message by: Warriors905 10/24/2006 21:01:53 GMT
We are assembling the self assembly nanotube and 2 pieces are to short and the finished item does not lie flat on the table. Is it suppose to be like and at angle?

Discussion: Velcro placement for competition By: AndtheCat2435 11/07/2006 19:05:34 GMT
When our robot un-sticks the nanotip, the magnet end of the field set-up lifts off the table (mat included). Sometimes, this causes the nanotip to remain stuck. At the competitions, will velcro be placed beneath the magnet end of the nanotip set-up? This would ensure the mat sticks to the table, and the field set-up would not lift off the table. If we get to our competition and there is no velcro placed beneath the magnet are, can i request that some be placed there, and expect the judges will do that?

Message by: fll-freak 11/06/2006 22:38:52 GMT
The field setup does NOT say to place any Dual Lock under the nanotip and hence none will be added. Doing so, would place a bump under the mat that might foil other teams chances. This year the extra challenge of the nanotip mission is to figure out how to open it without lifting the whole mission model.

Your chance of getting the Dual_Lock added is very very low.

Now with that said, I always come to a competition with a few rolls of double sided cloth carpet tape. It is almost always the case that the tournament partner is using their mats for the first time that day. Remember how it took your mat a few days to get the curl out? Well I give them the tape and suggest they use four foot lenghts under the short ends to flatten the mat.

But I would never expect that the mat would be held down over the whole surface or next to a paticular model.

-Skye

Message by: MA_Head_Ref 11/06/2006 23:25:31 GMT
Just to clarify for others: I read the above and thought Skye was saying that there was no Dual-Lock on the magnet end of the assembly. This is NOT what is being discussed. Instead, what is being discussed is adding dual-lock between the table and the mat.

And, I can assure you, it will never happen because of the Q&A on this topic.

Jack Gregory

Message by: AndtheCat2435 11/07/2006 14:55:50 GMT
Thank you for clarifying this for us. Jack, you mentioned the I & A on this topic. I had looked through different discussions, but didn't see one about dual lock placement. Which discussion are you referring to? It's probably right out in plain sight no doubt. Thanks--

Message by: fll-freak 11/07/2006 15:07:58 GMT
Q&A page. It is the official page with rulings direct from FIRST. Find it here:
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=23730

Look for QA12

-Skye

Message by: GeniusInDisguise1559 11/07/2006 19:05:34 GMT
Our mat has been down since September and it still has a curl at the east end.

I don't have our mat taped down. I notice that is migrates northeast over time and I have to keep pulling back to the southwest corner. If the competition mats are anything like mine, some carpet tapes sounds like a good idea. Otherwise using the wall for consistency won't work so good.

Bob
Team 1559

Discussion: Mat ripples By: Luther'sSeals1785 11/13/2006 18:37:56 GMT
Our mat has lots of ripples from when it was rolled. The instructions say this should relax over time, but It hasn't. Does anyone have any suggestions for making our mat flatten out?
If the ripples are bigger than normal(due to pushing or pulling), our robot moves differently. Will the mats be completely flat at the tournaments?

Message by: fll-freak 11/08/2006 13:50:28 GMT
A warm (NOT HOT) hair dryer. My trick (too late now for Northern folks) is to put the mat outside in the sun for 1/2 hour when I first get in. This does a great job of flatterning.

Will the mats be flat at your tournament? Who knows. Probably not. Many state tournaments purchase kits and only unroll the mats the night before.

-Skye

Message by: CGMSC2605 11/13/2006 18:37:56 GMT
At the qualifying tournament we attended this past Saturday many of the mats had ripples (especially on the practice tables). Over the course of the day they seemed to get better, what with time and all the robots running back and forth across them.

I was very concerned about the ripples affect on our robot before the tournament started but really didn't notice much of an affect during our runs.

Discussion: Bucky Ball Placement By: FunkyBots 4850 11/10/2006 20:02:10 GMT
The rules say the Bucky Ball can be placed "loosely anywhere in base." Does that mean the ball can be placed on the robot while it is still in base?

Message by: fll-freak 11/10/2006 20:02:10 GMT
Yes.
-Skye

Discussion: Truck Placement By: FunkyBots 4850 11/10/2006 20:01:49 GMT
Where does the truck start at the beginning of the round?

Message by: fll-freak 11/10/2006 20:01:49 GMT
http://www.firstlegoleague.org/scripts/webx.dll?230@@.ee99afd

-Skye

Discussion: Space Elevator By: NanoControl4059 11/24/2006 03:42:17 GMT
We are having trouble placing the space elevator on our practice table. Since it is meant to span both tables in the tournament, it hangs over the edge. Should we try to built up a platform for the other side to sit on? Otherwise, the weight of the unsupported side throws the structure out of alignment.

Table set-up has been so frustrating. We have been missing pieces, and luckily had a few spare parts lying around from an old kit that we could borrow from...but it's been so frustrating! We had some pieces left over, too, and that has us worried.

When the field set-up kit arrived in multiple bags, I assumed that each of the nine mission models were contained in a bag...not so, of course, but wouldn't that make much more sense??? This just seems harder than it ought to be, but maybe that's because I am a rookie coach.

Thank goodness our state tournament is at the end of January! We are just opening our NXT kit today. Do we have a chance to get it all done?

Trudy Nye
Coach of NanoControl (4059) and NanoKatz (4061)

Message by: 11/21/2006 23:09:58 GMT
Deleted

Message by: Whizards 11/22/2006 23:21:02 GMT
Use exra LEGO, Trudy. :)

When I had a practice tournament, I only could use one table, and so Paul Tan, coach of the Nanopenguins, built a small little 'b