Competition

Unofficial FLL FAQ_06-c - Competition
UFAQ Table of Contents

Q7.1) What should new teams expect when they attend a tournament?
A) A long exciting day full of ups and downs. The big thing to remember is to just RELAX! Tournaments are a lot of fun. At the end of the day even if your team is not top scorer, they will have learned and participated in something really good and had fun doing it. A description of a 'typical' tournament can be found in the Coach's Handbook .

Q7.2) Is there a National competition for those that place at the State level?
A) At the conclusion of the 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 seasons, the Director's Award winners at the state level were invited to the "Invitational" tournament. This tournament is held at the same time and place as the FIRST robotics (high school program) national competition. The invitational events have not been publicized in advance and therefore should not be counted on in the future. Check annually with FIRST. Be warned that the cost of sending an FLL team is anything but trivial and that each team is responsible for its own costs.

Q7.3) What are the criteria used to advance a team from local to state?
A) It varies from state to state and even within a state. A small local competition may only get to advance a few teams. A larger competition may get to advance more. The actual criterion is also variable but is most often based on the overall score used to select the Director's Award. This score is a weighted combination of the individual scores. The weights for each section are likely to be different. You can find more details in the Coaches' Handbook. The following is a sample:

   Robot Design          25%  
   Robot Performance     25%
   Project Presentation  25%
   Teamwork              25%

It is interesting to note that only 25% of the overall score is from the performance score! FLL is about being good at all aspects of engineering/technology.

Q7.4) Can we attempt the same mission more than one time?
A) Yes. If you failed to complete the mission the first time you may try again, and again, and again.

Q7.5) Can we complete the same mission more than one time?
A) Yes but why? If you completed a mission, you could still do the mission again, but you will only get points for doing it once. The table is scored by examination after the time has expired. The fact that you did the flobersnack mission ten times in a row will not be apparent to the score taker by looking at the final state of the table.

Q7.6) How can we solve mission XYZ?
A1) This is the heart of the problem! If you ask you may get answers, you may get hints, you may get wrong answers, or you may get "gently flamed" (toasted?). The key is to have the team brainstorm the problem. Specific questions ("Can we whack the gizmo before touching the thingy?") are welcome.
A2) Try not to be swayed by what other teams post. Each team should do their own thinking. Following the crowd will not lead to revolutionary ideas.

Q7.7) Is it possible to bring a TV tray table to put next to the competition table with our accessories on it?
A) This is tournament dependent. Within reason most will allow this. But be aware of the dangers. Beside the two operators there will be a referee, and possibly an MC and camera operator. These individuals all have the possibility to knock over a table. A plastic bucket on the floor is perhaps a better approach.

Q7.8) Will we be subjected to a robot return penalty if we yank the robot back before it fully leaves the base?
A) No. The BONUS OBJECTS/LOSS rule states that you will not get a penalty in this case.

Q7.9) Can our robot leave litter on the table?
A) There is no rule that prevents you from littering. A fairly traditional strategy is to discard appendages you do not need anymore. The downside to this approach is that a referee will not to allow you to retrieve a jettisoned item (unless the robot is in possession of it) on a failed mission.

Q7.10) Can we use the LEGO remote control during the competition?
A) Good try, but NO! It would not only control your robot but the other team's as well. It also violates the AUTONOMY rule and the spirit of FLL. A remote has benefits during testing in the pit area, but should be left there. Do not even bring it into the competition area. Remotes make referees very nervous. Nervous referees may confiscate the remote for the rest of the competition.

Q7.11) Can we "pre-containerize" our own team's objects and substitute these when we come to the table?
A) No. You cannot come to the table with your own team's objects all built into a container and use that instead. All prep of this kind must be done with the tournament objects. Keep this in mind if you are planning elaborate containers.

Q7.12) Do we need to prepare a formal presentation on our software and mechanical design?
A) Not usually. The judging is normally an interactive session between the judges and team members. Nothing says that a team cannot have a short overview to warm the judges up. In fact it could "peel back the onion" faster allowing the judges to see more detail and ask better questions. Just make sure it is SHORT. Be aware that some states (TX?) do require a formal presentation. Contact the regional organizer in advance.

Q7.13) During a mission, part of my robot breaks off. Will the referee return the piece if I ask him or do I have to wait till the mission run is over to get the part back?
A) Most referees are instructed to hand broken robot pieces back to the operators as soon as possible. Parts that are meant to come off like projectiles or delivery containers are not returned. It is usually easy to tell if the separation was deliberate or not. The referee will have the final decision. Of course, a robot that falls apart a lot is not likely to win the "Robust Design" award!

Q7.14) Can the robot touch the 2x4 wood borders without penalty?
A) Yes. Many teams use the wall as a navigation aid.

Q7.15) Can a team request that the referee return the robot to base for them if they can't reach it?
A) Absolutely, but they will be subject to the robot return penalty. In fact, before the match even begins a good referee will ask the team the best way to pick up the robot without damaging it just for this eventuality. A quick word with a referee that does not bring this up on their own might be a good idea. Your other option is to bring a stool.

Q7.16) I read that programming is not allowed in the tournament area. Does this mean that there is time between rounds to return to the pits and make adjustments?
A) Perhaps. Besides the performance rounds, your team will be busy with their research presentation and technical judging. If these events do not interfere, you are likely to have time to make adjustments during the preliminary rounds. If you have made the finals, all bets are off. You may have as little as the time it takes to reset the table before you must compete again.

Q7.17) What happens if our robot is not in the base when the time expires?
A) There is no penalty for not being in base at the end of the round. If you have a object still on board the robot, it will be scored as such. Some missions may actually give points for being someplace other than the base at the end of the match but this changes year to year.

Q7.18) What do I need to bring to a tournament?
A) Bring:

A computer (laptop recommended) with whatever software(ROBOLAB or RIS) you are using to program the robot.
Extension cord and power strip.
All your programs pre-loaded on the laptop, robot, and on two floppies.
Printouts of your code if possible.
Your robot!
Your Mindstorms kit.
A programming garage.
Research presentation materials.
Team banners, tee-shirts, etc. to show your team spirit.
Money and/or food for lunch and snacks.
Camera and/or camcorder. Remember a) disable the flash b) do not use if the camera uses IR focus.
Spare batteries.
Parents to keep track of the team and to cheer.
A cell phone to call wayward parents.
Something to keep siblings busy. An FLL tournament is often a full day event.

Q7.19) Can a team bring note cards or some kind of check list to the table?
A) Yes, the prohibition on non-LEGO parts does have to stop someplace! As long as the check list is not used in any way to directly affect the robot it is legal.

Q7.20) Do we need to bring our table to the tournament?
A) Normally no. The tournament Director is responsible for having the right number of tables available. Of course, you may be asked to lend your table for the event. You may also be asked to lend your field pieces. But normally you can leave your table at home.

Q7.21) Will there be any place to practice at a tournament?
A) Normally yes. Most competitions will provide one or more practice tables in the pit area. Some teams bring their mat and try to find a place on the floor to lay it out to practice. Some tournaments forbid this due to safety issues.

Q7.22) I am wondering how the rounds are structured. The manual states that there will be a minimum of three rounds. Does that mean we will have three 2½-minute periods of time to accomplish all the goals or are we trying to achieve all the goals in each 2½-minute round?
A) Each of the three rounds is scored on its own merit. Try to accomplish as much a possible in the 2½-minutes provided.

Q7.23) Does the 2½ -minute round include time at base changing parts etc?
A) Yes. There is no timeout mechanism. Parts changing and robot action all are charged against your 2½-minutes

Q7.24) After being called to the table, how much time if any does the team get to setup before the match starts?
A) This varies between tournaments but you are likely to get a minimum of one minute. You may or may not be allowed to manipulate field pieces that start in the base during this time. You certainly may not touch anything outside the base.

Q7.25) Our robot breaks at the competition table. Can we send up our mechanical guru to fix it?
A) Yes. You must tell the referee you are declaring an emergency and call up the extra people. The robot cannot be operated again until only two operators are present.

Q7.26) Can my operators play "tag team"?
A1) Probably. Although the Participation rule specifically allows it, some tournaments shun the practice because of the physical layout. Find out in advance. If it is allowed, let the referee know in advance. As long as only two students are at the table it should be fine. Be aware that your approach may be problematic in a hectic environment.

A2) This great description is from Scott Kukshtel.

Last season, our team used the tag team strategy with much success. The year before we had used the 2-person strategy (also successfully), but there was some strong desire by other team members to participate, so we decided to try the tag team approach.

Out of our team of 10, only 2 decided not to participate, so we used four teams of two. Each team was assigned a mission "interval", in which they were responsible for bringing any necessary robot pieces, deliverables and/or jigs to the table, removing pieces no longer required, adding the new pieces, and starting the mission. They would then leave the table and tag the next team in.

This approach also had the advantage of not cluttering the base with extra robot pieces/deliverables/jigs. All team members lined up by the table just out of the immediate competition area (there was a tape line on the floor) so that they could watch the action and be ready to go when it was their turn. The judges could also see all parts in their hands at all times.

I admit that it did take some practice to get it right, but no more than would have been required if it was just 2 team members doing the whole thing. It's also much better than having multiple 2-person teams where each team does everything for one round. This way, each team member could concentrate on 1 or 2 simple tasks, and you never get into the issue of one 2-person team being better than the other.

It also promoted much more of a team mentality and really helped to boost our team spirit. And with all team members watching, they all learned all the intricacies of all the missions. Which brings up another advantage of this approach (which we fortunately didn't encounter): With a single 2-person team, if one or both happened to be sick on tournament day, you are in trouble, whereas with a tag team approach, it's relatively easy to substitute.

To start, we created a detailed flowchart on a white board so that everyone could remember their roles, but after a few practices, it was all in their heads. Each member knew exactly which parts and deliverables they were supposed to be handling at all times, and they were responsible for those parts' integrity and correctness (ever seen a jig fall apart just at a critical moment as it is being fished out of a box on the floor?)

For a few more complex missions, we ended up not doing the 2-in/2-out switch during the mission, and instead left in one team member as a "crossover" in case anything went wrong during the mission and it needed to be restarted.

This year, our team is down to only six, but we'll probably still employ the tag team approach. Last year, we received several complements from table judges and other observers for our "choreography". I highly suggest trying it - it's really not as hard as it may seem!

One suggestion: if you take this approach, make sure that the team mentions it to the floating "teamwork judge", as sometimes they are too busy to actually see the team in action at the table, and this essential feature of the team may be overlooked.

Q7.27) Can you modify your robot during a round?
A) Yes, as long as the work is done in the base, and the sum of all parts you bring to the table meets the legal parts rule.

Q7.28) Can you change your robot between rounds?
A) Yes. In fact you could alternate between two designs if you wanted and as long as the sum of all parts you bring to the table meets the legal parts rule.

Q7.29) Are the missions to be accomplished in any set order?
A) By default there is no set order that the missions must be done in. In some years a mission was given a special order. Either the robot had to do a set mission first, or points were given for a special final position. Look at the mission specifics for these overrides.

Q7.30) What should we do if we see a referee not following the rules properly?
A) This will happen at times. Referees are often volunteers that were only trained for a few hours and perhaps even that morning. It is therefore very important to raise rule issues with the referee immediately after the round. Calmly explain the situation. They will usually call the Head Ref over and get it straightened out. Usually you have enough chances to score well that the occasional referee mistake won't cost you. But I have had great teams completely hosed by table or referee flaws, and it is just part of what the kids have to learn to "take".

Q7.31) What is a bonus object and why would they be taken away?
A) A bonus object is an item on the table that at the start of the match is worth points in its current location. If your team finds it necessary to manually return the robot to base, then the referee will remove a bonus object from the table. This will therefore lower your score. Bonus objects are a simple way for the referees to keep track of the number of robot return penalties.

Q7.32) Can you please explain the issues behind scoring?
A) Your team will be evaluated in several categories. These may differ somewhat on the tournament you enter, but they are likely to include Robot Performance, Innovative Design, ???, and Teamwork. Only the Robot Performance score is an objective score. The others are subjective due to the human factor in judging. At the end of the tournament, the judges will deliberate and pick winners for each category. Their job is simple for the Robot Performance score having only to pick the best score. Their job is also fairly simple for the Director’s Award (overall award). Here they sum the scores in each category and pick the top team. At this point their life becomes tough due to FIRST’s policy that no one team should walk away with all the awards. The judges must then look carefully at the scores and team rankings to best allocate the awards. They must take into account numerous factors and special circumstances. This is not an enviable job.
As a result of these deliberations, a team that was ranked third in a particular category may well take home the first place trophy. As a result, tournaments will often not post the results for fear of opening Pandora’s Box. The team that won may feel cheapened when they learn they were actually the third place team. A team that was second in one category and third in another may wonder why they were given the third place trophy and not the second.
But conversely not publishing the scores leads to hurt feelings when teams can’t make sense of who won what and why. These are issues that FIRST and their tournament partners struggle with.
What does make a great deal of sense is for the tournament partner to release each team’s score sheets. These sheets can be very valuable if written comments are included. They can be even more powerful if the tournament publishes the average score to allow some numeric comparisons.

Q7.33) What amount of talk is allowed between teams during a match?
A) As much or as little as your want. FIRST is big into “competitive cooperation”. They encourage it as much as possible. That is the whole reason for a shared mission. Be aware that the music may be so loud as to prevent any communications during a match. Talking to teams back in the pit is a great way to pass the time and share information. Of course heckling would be severely frowned upon.

Q7.34) What kinds of questions do they ask the kids in the technical judging phase of the tournament?
A) What mission are you most proud of? Who figured out to do that? How many sensors do you use? Why are you using this sensor? How did you come up with your strategy? Why are you doing this before that? What is the best feature of your robot? What is the worst? What software are you using? Who wrote the software? How did you learn to do that? Who built this gizmo? What are some ideas that you tried that didn't work? How did your robot change from when you started to what it is now? Are there any features of your robot that you think are completely different from anything else that other teams have done? What is the integral of y = sin(2*pi*f*t) relative to time over the interval 0 to pi?

Q7.35) Is it possible to solve all the missions in the time allowed?
A) Yes. Perfect scores are rare, but do happen. In some years, due to scoring issues, it is even possible to score more than a perfect score. In either case it is extremely rare to see such a score in November. In December/January a few perfect rounds will have been recorded world wide. By March, three or four teams attending the World Festival may be able to have a perfect score. You must temper this answer with the knowledge that the degree of difficulty changes each year.

Q7.36) What type of questions should I ask of my Tournament Director prior to a competition?
A)Here are some of the things I asked about the tournaments ahead of time:

Is there a basic information package, and when will I receive it?
How many rounds will each team get to run the robot? (the standard is three but we observed a tournament where they ran double-rounds so each team got 6 rounds)
How many teams advance to the elimination rounds, and what procedure is used to determine which teams advance (average scores or highest score?)
How long is the project interview, and how much of that time is allocated for setting up and question/answer?
Will there be a separate teamwork interview, or is it judged as part of another interview, or is teamwork assessed through observation throughout the day?
Are the teams required to make a presentation in their technical interview, or just be prepared to answer questions?
How large is our pit area, and can we store things under the tables? If we bring a team poster does it need to be self-standing?
Can we have parents in the pit area to supervise our lap top?
Can we bring food into the pit area?
What opportunities are there for practice runs before the competition begins, and throughout the day? will these practice runs be on the competition tables or separate practice tables?
Which awards are given out at this tournament? are second and third place winners announced or only top prizes? do you announce runners-up to the directors (champions) award?
How are teams selected to advance to the next level? is it by overall score (pg, runners-up to director's award) or is it the winners of the individual categories regardless of their overall standing?
What feedback will the teams receive, other than awards?

Thanks to Doreen Hyndman coach of team Zap for this list.

UFAQ Table of Contents
Home

Disclaimer: This FAQ is not an official FIRST document. It is an accumulation of knowledge derived from six thousand messages posted to the FLL forum over three seasons. It has been reviewed by numerous people, but may still contain errors. Use at your own risk.
Readers are encouraged to submit errors, suggested wording changes, new topics, or comments to Skye Sweeney at skye@fll-freak.com
Copyright 2003-2006 Skye Sweeney; Last Updated on 10/28/2006